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Rule nr. 1:
Roulette has no memory and the next outcome is independent from the previous outcomes.
Rule nr.2 :
The next outcomes are affected by the previous outcomes.

If Rule nr.1 is right then Rule nr.2 is wrong and  vice versa .
- Right ?
- Wrong!
Both rules have right and I will explain:

Let’s start with Rule nr.1.
No body will say that it is wrong.
Ex. For an EC outcome to come up  BLACJK or RED is 50% (ok, there is the zero, but don’t stick for the moment in this) no matter what the previous outcome have been. It will always be 50% because it will be either BLACK or RED.

Let’s continue with Rule nr.1 to examine if it is wrong or right.
Let’s say that B comes out.
On the next spin there is a 50% for another B to come.
But keeping in mind that the previous spin was B, for the BB to come out the chances are 25%. The other 75% of chances are for the creation of BR, RB and RR.
After BB for the next B to come out (independently) is again 50%, but for having in mind the previous BB for a string BBB to come out is 12,5%.
So based on the 1st rule we have for the 3rd BLACK 50% of chances to come, but at the same time, having in mind the previous BB there is 12,5% chances for the 3rd BLACK to come and have a string of BBB.
That’s why statistics show that for 2.036 spins, those 1023 results are created:
10 in a row - will occur __1 time 
09 in a row - will occur __2 times 
08 in a row - will occur __4 times 
07 in a row - will occur __8 times 
06 in a row - will occur _16 times 
05 in a row - will occur _32 times 
04 in a row - will occur _64 times 
03 in a row - will occur 128 times 
02 in a row - will occur 256 times 
01 in a row - will occur 512 times 

Let’s say another example:
For a number to come is 1/37 chances
For the same number to come in the next spin independently, there are also 1/37 chances.
But for both the same numbers to come one after the other the ccances are 1 / 1396
For the third same number to come after the same two numbers the possibilities are: 1 / 50653
For a 4th same number to come in a row it is 1 / 1874161
For a 5th is about  1 / 70 millions
For a 6th is 2,5 billions!
……..
But at the same time for every spin independently for a number to come the chances remain /137.
So, even if it’s very weird, both rules nr.1 & 2 are right.
How can we take advantage of the above ?
I have come up with an idea, which I will elaborate in my next post
Until then, I would appreciate your positive or negative comments.
Thanks

totally agree!
I'll be waiting for your next post!
thx!

Quote from: huskerdu on Apr 25, 05:26 AM 2020
Rule nr. 1:
Roulette has no memory and the next outcome is independent from the previous outcomes.
Rule nr.2 :
The next outcomes are affected by the previous outcomes.

If Rule nr.1 is right then Rule nr.2 is wrong and  vice versa .
- Right ?
- Wrong!
Both rules have right and I will explain:

Let’s start with Rule nr.1.
No body will say that it is wrong.
Ex. For an EC outcome to come up  BLACJK or RED is 50% (ok, there is the zero, but don’t stick for the moment in this) no matter what the previous outcome have been. It will always be 50% because it will be either BLACK or RED.

Let’s continue with Rule nr.1 to examine if it is wrong or right.
Let’s say that B comes out.
On the next spin there is a 50% for another B to come.
But keeping in mind that the previous spin was B, for the BB to come out the chances are 25%. The other 75% of chances are for the creation of BR, RB and RR.
After BB for the next B to come out (independently) is again 50%, but for having in mind the previous BB for a string BBB to come out is 12,5%.
So based on the 1st rule we have for the 3rd BLACK 50% of chances to come, but at the same time, having in mind the previous BB there is 12,5% chances for the 3rd BLACK to come and have a string of BBB.
That’s why statistics show that for 2.036 spins, those 1023 results are created:
10 in a row - will occur __1 time 
09 in a row - will occur __2 times 
08 in a row - will occur __4 times 
07 in a row - will occur __8 times 
06 in a row - will occur _16 times 
05 in a row - will occur _32 times 
04 in a row - will occur _64 times 
03 in a row - will occur 128 times 
02 in a row - will occur 256 times 
01 in a row - will occur 512 times 

Let’s say another example:
For a number to come is 1/37 chances
For the same number to come in the next spin independently, there are also 1/37 chances.
But for both the same numbers to come one after the other the ccances are 1 / 1396
For the third same number to come after the same two numbers the possibilities are: 1 / 50653
For a 4th same number to come in a row it is 1 / 1874161
For a 5th is about  1 / 70 millions
For a 6th is 2,5 billions!
……..
But at the same time for every spin independently for a number to come the chances remain /137.
So, even if it’s very weird, both rules nr.1 & 2 are right.
How can we take advantage of the above ?
I have come up with an idea, which I will elaborate in my next post
Until then, I would appreciate your positive or negative comments.
Thanks

I would say the probability remains the same. If the last result was B then the probability of BB and BR are both 50 percent (not including 0). Same if it was BB. The probability of being BBB or BBR would be 50 percent and so on. Before any results the probability of BB, BR, RR, RB are all 25 percent. But once the spins  start the probability changes as there are a lower number of possible outcomes based on the set of spins you are calculating odds for . This is my understanding. Could be wrong

Quote from: huskerdu on Apr 25, 05:26 AM 2020After BB for the next B to come out (independently) is again 50%, but for having in mind the previous BB for a string BBB to come out is 12,5%.
So based on the 1st rule we have for the 3rd BLACK 50% of chances to come, but at the same time, having in mind the previous BB there is 12,5% chances for the 3rd BLACK to come and have a string of BBB.

There is no contradiction between the rules if you put it like that, but your argument is faulty.

Both rules cannot be right at the same time considering the next spin, so you cannot say, 'given black has already hit twice, the chance of it hitting again is 12.5%'.

You can correctly say, before you have observed any outcomes, that the chance of 3 blacks in a row is 12.5%, but when you see BB, the 12.5% no longer applies because the BB is in the past and independent (consistent with rule 1). Probability is about the uncertain future, not the past which we know is certain therefore its probability is 100%. 

Quote from: Joe on Apr 25, 07:59 AM 2020Both rules cannot be right at the same time considering the next spin, so you cannot say, 'given black has already hit twice, the chance of it hitting again is 12.5%'.

Let's look at what the real odds are. If you see BB then the next bet is still 47% chance of hitting black again. Each spin is independent. There are no odds for a trend occurring at an exact moment in time in the future. There is no way to predict how long it will last either. You must begin with a guess and nothing more.  If you see 10 blacks in a row and bet on it to continue, and it does keep hitting black for ten more spins, a total of 20 blacks in a row, then you just won 9 net wins. But if you don't speculate on it for math reasons then you get nothing. So you are speculating on 1 lost bet vs all the bets that you win from the trend. The issue now becomes the idea that you will lose way more first tries than is mathematically expected. Funny how math works against you at twice the level as it really does in these discussions, if just by math alone you lose half of all first try bets But you get to keep all the rest of the bets that go on to 2, 3, 4, etc... The point is to get good at observing times when it is working and times when it is not. That is a trend too. There are times when swarms of wins group strongly as in a kind of domination. The same goes for a losing streaks. You must know what the betting on trends conditions are. There is no math that works for the current occurring conditions. If there were this game would have died centuries ago.

Quote from: gizmotron2 on Apr 25, 09:22 AM 2020There are no odds for a trend occurring at an exact moment in time in the future.

Not so. Tell me what the trend is and I'll tell you what the odds are for it occurring at any time. For instance, if a trend is 3 reds or blacks in a row the odds are 12.5%!

Or if the trend is bit more subtle, say at least 5 reds out of the last 8 spins, the probability of that happening in the next 8 spins (at any time) is about 36%. In fact however you define a trend, you can calculate the odds of it occurring. But you're right that there is no way of predicting it, so a guess is as good as anything.

QuoteThe point is to get good at observing times when it is working and times when it is not.

But you can only say it's working during the event. You can only get good at it if there are reliable signs or indicators for it, but you agree that spins are independent and prediction isn't possible. What use is it to just observe the times when it's working - any fool can do that. Observing that it's currently working is not a sign that it will continue to work.

Binomial distribution arithmetic will tell you the odds or chances for a continuous chain of events but they have no capacity to say when a continuous chain of events start, how long they will last, or when they will end.

Quote from: Joe on Apr 25, 03:55 PM 2020But you can only say it's working during the event. You can only get good at it if there are reliable signs or indicators for it, but you agree that spins are independent and prediction isn't possible. What use is it to just observe the times when it's working - any fool can do that. Observing that it's currently working is not a sign that it will continue to work.

You have just stated the obvious. "any fool can do that."  And the follow up is true too. There IS no indicator that it will continue.  What I find funny most of all is that you can't see a value in knowing this much and finding a way to use it to your advantage. Instead you use it to not see something that I have been successful in teaching others. I appreciate your point of view even more now. Any fool can ignore something that is beyond their scope of understanding because it offers no guarantees. It must be a prediction of the future in order to work. So I'm pleased beyond words that there a people that will learn the truth much later and perhaps too late. I get a huge sense of accomplishment from knowing that I'm right about this now and will one day be proven to have been right all along. You don't need to know the future in order to speculate on chance. You just need to target when speculation is in a favorable or positive condition. Nobody wants to talk about how favorable conditions tend to act when they are swarming. That would imply that they accept the notion of favorable conditions while not having a mathematical guarantee.

Joe it’s all about odds to you..not what actually is happening..

What the wheel must do or has to do...

People like yourself cannot perceive the total overall concept..

You do know it’s impossible to get 19 numbers out without a pair or a repeat the restrictions won’t allow it..

A lot less with table numbers and wheel numbers combined

Yet you know it’s mathematically possible to get 37 unique numbers out

It will never happen

Of course maths say it could but it won’t

It never has and never will

Lots you don’t understand away from maths I don’t think you ever will

Examples are let’s take unhits from cycle one ..say 12...

Or 10

Next cycle they won’t all come out rarely do but you can basically guarantee that the unhits count hit will match next cycle give one or two with repeats will match that number

Same for islands etc

It’s not all about the odds or maths but what’s in front of you

It’s what’s happening and will happen

How you capitalise on it is different then you can use your maths with statistics

Husker and 6th sense, you're repeating gamblers fallacy. It has all been explained before.

Giz, no offense, but you're full of hot air. Why not stop the blather and show us how great your system is on MPR? Actions and results speak louder than words.

Quote from: 6th-sense on Apr 25, 05:48 PM 2020People like yourself cannot perceive the total overall concept..

You do know it’s impossible to get 19 numbers out without a pair or a repeat the restrictions won’t allow it..

A lot less with table numbers and wheel numbers combined

Yet you know it’s mathematically possible to get 37 unique numbers out

It will never happen

Of course maths say it could but it won’t

It never has and never will

Lots you don’t understand away from maths I don’t think you ever will

6th, and what you and others don't seem to understand is that if your ideas had any merit they would have been 'mathematized' already.  Someone would have come up with a formula or algorithm which formalized 'reading randomness, or 'situational awareness' etc. Would you then be saying that there is more to it than the maths?  The fact that there is no such formula shows that the theory is bunkum, or at least highly subjective and unreliable. Until someone comes up with some new maths which proves that the old maths is flawed, I prefer to stick with the tried and trusted. And by the way, it's not just the maths which proves your ideas don't work, actual play and simulations do too. 

I'd love for you to be right, but we have to respect reality. It should always have the final say. Again, you just repeat this stuff over and over like many others, but there is no data which backs up your claims - none! Show me the data! It's easy for the 'mathboys' to prove that systems don't work, now it's time for those who disagree to prove that we're wrong instead of endlessly asserting it on forums like religious zealots.

Quote from: 6th-sense on Apr 25, 05:48 PM 2020
Joe it’s all about odds to you..not what actually is happening..

What the wheel must do or has to do...

People like yourself cannot perceive the total overall concept..

You do know it’s impossible to get 19 numbers out without a pair or a repeat the restrictions won’t allow it..

A lot less with table numbers and wheel numbers combined

Yet you know it’s mathematically possible to get 37 unique numbers out

It will never happen

Of course maths say it could but it won’t

It never has and never will

Lots you don’t understand away from maths I don’t think you ever will

Examples are let’s take unhits from cycle one ..say 12...

Or 10

Next cycle they won’t all come out rarely do but you can basically guarantee that the unhits count hit will match next cycle give one or two with repeats will match that number

Same for islands etc

It’s not all about the odds or maths but what’s in front of you

It’s what’s happening and will happen

How you capitalise on it is different then you can use your maths with statistics

Hi Gordon, This is the game I played flatbet from spin38 onwards.
Bet 18 pockets plus zero.
Every bet has different 18 numbers.
So I control,
1. when I bet that's when odds is in my favour, and
2. I select the 18numbers to bet

Don't want to spend more time on rs. This idea may be useful to you.
I will send the game to your gmail.

repeat

Quote from: 6th-sense on Apr 25, 05:48 PM 2020You do know it’s impossible to get 19 numbers out without a pair or a repeat the restrictions won’t allow it..

It's not impossible it happened just the other day.

Quote from: 6th-sense on Apr 25, 05:48 PM 2020Examples are let’s take unhits from cycle one ..say 12...

Or 10

Next cycle they won’t all come out rarely do but you can basically guarantee that the unhits count hit will match next cycle give one or two with repeats will match that number

How many times does it have to be said? Outcomes are independent so what's happened in a previous cycle has no effect on what will happen in the next!

Let’s say that you have written a random 15-string in a paper:
B R R B B R R R B R B B B R R R B R B B
You say that this specific string will not come out from the roulette the specific day, the specific time you will sit on the table.
The possibilities for this specific string to come out are 1 /   32.768. or 0,003%
So, you want , when you sit on the table, to start betting using Martingale, exactly the opposite colors in order not to come. But for the 15-step Martingale is:
1-2-4-8-16-32-64-128-256-512-1024-2048-4096-8192-16384.
Of course it is impossible to play this betting because you don’t want to risk thousands of units in order to win one unit, even if it is one to 32,768 chances to lose. And of course, the table limits don’t allow you to do this.
But let’s say that you have this bankroll and there is no limit on the table.
So you wrote this string and when you came to the table instead of immediately start betting, you are staring at  a nice woman, order a drink,  talk to somebody beside you, and after some minutes you see at the matrix board  that the last 10 colors that have been spun out are exactly the first 10 colors as you wrote them on the paper, so it is as if you had started to bet some minutes ago and you already had 10 virtual loses.
You think that you  are lucky because it is not necessary to play a 15-step Martingale but a 5-step Martingale for the rest 5 colors of your string.
So instead of risk 32.768 units, you risk 1-2-4-8-16 = 32 units in order to win the 15-string.
Question:
How many chances do you have to lose in  the next 5 spins ?
1/ 32.768 or 1/16  ?
Mathematically the chances are 1/16, because whatever outcome it was at the previous spins, mathematics say that at the next 5 spins you have a chance of 1/16. because roulette has no memory, the outcomes are independent so what's happened in a previous cycle has no effect on what will happen in the next.
But you also think that before sitting on the table, you wrote a 15 string not to come and when you sit you had 10 virtual loses. So are you so unlucky that you will lose a string with a 1/32,768 chances to lose? If there is a possibility that this statement is right, then I have come up with a new system, which I can elaborate in my new post.
Thanks for the contribution and your priceless comments.

Quote from: precogmiles on Apr 26, 04:50 AM 2020
It's not impossible it happened just the other day.

Lol 😂 show me on this pic after 18 spins what comes next..impossible with a repeat or a pair..yet you said it happened

use in conjunction with wheel layout same numbers for the more advanced look..

gamblers fallacy i suppose

Quote from: 6th-sense on Apr 26, 05:31 AM 2020
Lol 😂 show me on this pic after 18 spins what comes next..impossible with a repeat or a pair..yet you said it happened

00

which is linked to 1 and 36

Quote from: huskerdu on Apr 26, 05:10 AM 2020after some minutes you see at the matrix board  that the last 10 colors that have been spun out are exactly the first 10 colors as you wrote them on the paper, so it is as if you had started to bet some minutes ago and you already had 10 virtual loses.
You think that you  are lucky because it is not necessary to play a 15-step Martingale but a 5-step Martingale for the rest 5 colors of your string.
So instead of risk 32.768 units, you risk 1-2-4-8-16 = 32 units in order to win the 15-string.
Question:
How many chances do you have to lose in  the next 5 spins ?
1/ 32.768 or 1/16  ?
Mathematically the chances are 1/16, because whatever outcome it was at the previous spins, mathematics say that at the next 5 spins you have a chance of 1/16. because roulette has no memory, the outcomes are independent so what's happened in a previous cycle has no effect on what will happen in the next.
But you also think that before sitting on the table, you wrote a 15 string not to come and when you sit you had 10 virtual loses. So are you so unlucky that you will lose a string with a 1/32,768 chances to lose? If there is a possibility that this statement is right,

No, the statement is wrong. Because past spins don't matter, it's irrelevant that you observed the first 10 outcomes of your pattern, so the chance of losing all of the next 5 bets is one in 32, same as it would be for any other pattern. Suppose the guy sitting next to you was looking for a different pattern, but decides to copy your bets for the next 5 spins. Does that mean his chance winning at least one of the next 5 bets is lower than yours?

(link:s://img.techpowerup.org/200426/tenor.gif)

Quote from: 6th-sense on Apr 26, 06:38 AM 2020
which is linked to 1 and 36

Ok if you say so.

6th-sense

Nice tracker, who has done it?
What do the  T W under dozens etc. mean? It looks rather confusing with all the colors on the right side table...

After so many years, people are still arguing about future spins are independent of past spins, gamblers fallacy, wrong testing, not enough spins, ect,ect.... :xd: :xd: :xd:

Another simple 37spins FLATBET game winner.
It's so simple 18 numbers plus zero flatbet.
I must be so damn lucky to pull off 2 easy winners in 2 tries.
Oh yeah, rs spins are faulty, I cherrypicked screenshot only winning sessions, and so on and on.....
Are you guys not tired ?
I'll pay a visit next year see if things have changed in here.
Same ole same ole.

Quote from: cht on Apr 26, 09:36 AM 2020
After so many years, people are still arguing about future spins are independent of past spins, gamblers fallacy, wrong testing, not enough spins, ect,ect.... :xd: :xd: :xd:

Another simple 37spins FLATBET game winner.
It's so simple 18 numbers plus zero flatbet.
I must be so damn lucky to pull off 2 easy winners in 2 tries.
Oh yeah, rs spins are faulty, I cherrypicked screenshot only winning sessions, and so on and on.....
Are you guys not tired ?
I'll pay a visit next year see if things have changed in here.
Same ole same ole.

Just to explain the game a little.

The reason why I waited for 37spins b4 start bet is for the prng to reveal the history numbers.
The same happens with a real wheel.

The bet is based on history numbers generated from the prng.
A bet that's premised on that future numbers is DEPENDENT on past numbers.
GAMBLERS FALLACY !

and, it works everytime. :xd: :xd: :xd:

Yes cht, your graph of 37 bets has convinced me. I've been wrong about gambler's fallacy and independent spins all these years and feel such a fool now you've proved that gambler's fallacy is itself a fallacy.  ::)

Quote from: Kav on Apr 26, 08:19 AM 2020
6th-sense

Nice tracker, who has done it?
What do the  T W under dozens etc. mean? It looks rather confusing with all the colors on the right side table...

it all started right here...
link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=20621.0

the T and W refers to my own personal tracker ie the T is table layout the W is wheel layout in order as it would be in the felt form...look at attached pic for reference.. the colours are set to reference spin number place for easy visual reference

Quote from: Joe on Apr 26, 02:33 AM 2020
Giz, no offense, but you're full of hot air. Why not stop the blather and show us how great your system is on MPR? Actions and results speak louder than words.

What the heck (****) is MPR?

No one should play roulette unless they want to willingly hand over their money.

so there is something here called MPR but I don't see any links to it.

Every system loses in the long-run

Quote from: swanson on Apr 26, 04:09 PM 2020
Every system loses in the long-run

Define long run!

Quote from: Steeefan2014 on Apr 26, 04:25 PM 2020Define long run!

I cannot define this. For a flat bet, I can't imagine being in profit after 5,000 spins. Of coarse, people do win the lottery, so I suppose someone can even get lucky and always win.

Quote from: gizmotron2 on Apr 26, 03:00 PM 2020
What the heck (****) is MPR?

link:://:.rouletteplayers.org/register

Is MPR really random?

There was another player there but I never saw his bets. So how does this prove anything?

It doesn't prove anything, because you have only played 40 spins. link:://:.rouletteplayers.org/leaderboard

If you maintain the same win rate for 400 spins, people are going to say: Okay...carry on...

After 4000 spins and a positive win rate people might get interested in what you say. But still it won't be enough. It can easily be luck.
These simulations will not prove anything. I have had quite a few system tests in excel that had a positive win rate after thousands of spins, but most of them were a result of simple luck.
If you could maintain an extraordinary win rate, say 2.0 or above over thousands of spins, then I guess people would be very interested in what you do.

How do you know I only played 40 spins?

So I went back to see if I could find information about my play and I made another $100.

Quote from: gizmotron2 on Apr 26, 05:59 PM 2020How do you know I only played 40 spins?

Click on this link link:://:.rouletteplayers.org/leaderboard
hit control+F and search for your name

Quote from: ati on Apr 26, 06:03 PM 2020
Click on this link link:://:.rouletteplayers.org/leaderboard
hit control+F and search for your name

Cool, I just did another session and made it to $300+

No proof of anything here but I'm already in  the top 20% This is fun. I was so bored with all the stay at home stuff.

Quote from: gizmotron2 on Apr 26, 06:49 PM 2020
No proof of anything here but I'm already in  the top 20% This is fun. I was so bored with all the stay at home stuff.

Good start. Come back on there I want to see you play. I'll be on there for the next few hours.

Quote from: precogmiles on Apr 26, 06:58 PM 2020
Good start. Come back on there I want to see you play. I'll be on there for the next few hours.

"What the fvck, over."  How can you see me play? I want to see you play too?

Sort of fun. I moved up in my win rate even though I descended at one point in the session. Gads, a plus $700 increase when I was only going after $100 in the fourth session. I'm up over a $1000, 20% increase in bankroll on the first day. And I hit it twice in one session.

Quote from: Joe on Apr 26, 10:18 AM 2020
Yes cht, your graph of 37 bets has convinced me. I've been wrong about gambler's fallacy and independent spins all these years and feel such a fool now you've proved that gambler's fallacy is itself a fallacy.  ::)

This post is not for you Joe.

This post is for those(especially my chat buddies, this one is for you) who look for a basis why it works. The underlying principle.

The 2nd Law of thermodynamics states that,

"the total entropy of an isolated system can never decrease over time, and is constant if and only if all processes are reversible. Isolated systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium, the state with maximum entropy."

Degree in Mechanical Engineering.

I made the connection between this law of thermodynamics and the process of numbers generation by prng or the real dealer and wheel. Designed the bet selection in line with this law. Timed the bet when this law is most effective.

It don't win all the time. As can be seen in the 2 graphs. But it naturally ends the same way in maximum entropy state.

Look up this principle of thermodynamics and educate yourself about entropy. Match the game played with this principle. There's much more than the game I revealed. This much I have given.

Cheers
CHT

Quote from: gizmotron2 on Apr 26, 08:31 PM 2020
Sort of fun. I moved up in my win rate even though I descended at one point in the session. Gads, a plus $700 increase when I was only going after $100 in the fourth session. I'm up over a $1000, 20% increase in bankroll on the first day. And I hit it twice in one session.

That's good. It seems the 30s was annoying you, maybe roulette simulator would work better for your method.

It would be good to see some of your plays of RS and how you follow the trend.

I've  just finished a few games on MPR

theprecogmiles   
Bank: 11972   
Spins: 180   
Amount bet: 11841   
Amount won: 18612   
Winrate: 1.5718267

Quote from: precogmiles on Apr 26, 10:46 PM 2020maybe roulette simulator would work better for your method.

It would be good to see some of your plays of RS and how you follow the trend.

So what or where is RS ?

First of all, I would like to thank AYK for the fantastic tracker :
link:://ayk.bplaced.net/tracker8/
And also  RAYMANZ for the MPR
link:://:.rouletteplayers.org/register
I didn’t know both of them so far.
Secondly, I would like to say this:
I started this thread saying that in the roulette game, there are 2 rules, completely different each other, but at the same time both are true.:
•   Rule Nr1. Roulette has no memory and the next spin is independent of the previous spins.
•   Rule Nr.2 The previous spins have an impact on the next spins because of the statistics. Even in randomness, there are statistics that put a limit to randomness.
We all agree that the rule Nr.1 is completely right
But at the same time we all accept the rule Nr.2 , because the 99,99% of the systems in this forum from everybody are based on the previous spins.
No matter if our system is based on E/C (R/B, O/E, H/L), on dozens or columns, on streets -double streets, on matrix, on repeaters, on roulette sectors,  all of us look the previous spins in order to start betting.
Are we all wrong?

Quote from: gizmotron2 on Apr 26, 11:49 PM 2020
So what or where is RS ?

link:s://roulette-simulator.info/

Quote from: RayManZ on Apr 27, 02:58 AM 2020
link:s://roulette-simulator.info/

That was not fun. I can't log in as gizmotron because it would use my gmail account's email that is already used somehow. Then it wanted me to download a bunch of extraneous software and open it. How dumb is that? I don't think so. If this website fu**s with you this much I'm pretty sure to watch out for it. There is no option to get my missing password and I don't know if I ever tried to gamble there or not before. But that shoving of software that is suspicious is way beyond realistic. My answer is no to this BS. This crap proves nothing anyway. Only real money and real play matters. I can't wait until the casinos open back up again. It could be more than a year or two.

Quote from: huskerdu on Apr 27, 02:47 AM 2020there are statistics that put a limit to randomness.

No, there aren't. People say stuff like 'nobody has ever seen 100 reds in a row or 37 different numbers in 37 spins' because they think it's proof that random does have limits, but that's not because of any hard-wired limits. How can there be limits when on every spin all numbers are equally likely? There are only limits in situations where outcomes get 'used up', as in card games where the cards aren't replaced. Roulette is a bottomless pit of 37 numbers.

You might object by saying that in practical terms there are limits, if not in theory. But all the data contradicts this. If there really were limits then systems like waiting for 10 reds in a row and then betting black would make some difference and limit your losing runs, but they don't. Take the system you suggested earlier - wait for a predefined pattern to partially show and then bet that it won't complete. Try doing this with a longer pattern, say 30 spins. No matter how long the pattern is and how much of it you wait for it makes no difference to how soon you get your first win when betting against it. That's because past results are totally irrelevant to what comes next. The feeling that they are relevant is a cognitive bias, that's all.

There is really no need for endless debates about this. Anyone can test for themselves that past spins don't influence future spins. It's the only cure for the gambler's fallacy.  ;)

Quote from: Joe on Apr 27, 11:02 AM 2020People say stuff like 'nobody has ever seen 100 reds in a row or 37 different numbers in 37 spins' because they think it's proof that random does have limits, but that's not because of any hard-wired limits.

So why, then? It's because there haven't been enough spins yet! Stats like those are dependent on the number of spins; generate enough spins and you'll see things you've never seen before. If you generate trillions of spins on a supercomputer you'll see many more 'rare' events than you see on your home PC, because it will just take too long on it.

Quote from: Joe on Apr 27, 11:47 AM 2020
So why, then? It's because there haven't been enough spins yet! Stats like those are dependent on the number of spins; generate enough spins and you'll see things you've never seen before. If you generate trillions of spins on a supercomputer you'll see many more 'rare' events than you see on your home PC, because it will just take too long on it.

The ONLY sure thing in roulette is that in 38 spins you have at least one repeat...

The rare event argument means you don't understand the basics of roulette odds and payouts.

It's the basics, yet many people argue the point like there's some big conspiracy.

The proof is in their face and they don't even see it. It's like someone arguing 5+5 doesnt equal 10. And they want to argue it, because they don't get it.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 27, 06:33 PM 2020The rare event argument means you don't understand the basics of roulette odds and payouts.

You are so right . The perfect reoccurring pattern is so rare that you would be lucky to see it maybe 4 or 5 time in your lifetime and that's if you play a lot.  It's so rare. I saw the same dozen sleep for 32 spins in a row. Once. I have never seen it happen even close to that ever again. You must respect the math.

IT'S NOT ABOUT NOT SEEING IT.

IT'S ABOUT THE ODDS OF ANY EVENT, THE PAYOUT WHEN IT OCCURS, AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ODDS AND PAYOUT.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to build a winning system around an event that you'll probably never see. If you try to do that, you don't understand the basics.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 27, 08:36 PM 2020
IT'S NOT ABOUT NOT SEEING IT.

IT'S ABOUT THE ODDS OF ANY EVENT, THE PAYOUT WHEN IT OCCURS, AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ODDS AND PAYOUT.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to build a winning system around an event that you'll probably never see. If you try to do that, you don't understand the basics.

You will pay the price of the fool if you try to build a system based on any extreme rare event. I'm only prepared to exploit them when I see them. That's five times in 25 years. I killed the casino each time and I drew a huge crowd while doing it. But I'm never hunting for them. It's like knowing a good thing and being prepared. People watching have no idea what is happening. It's just a perfect pattern executing for a good spell. And anyone that knows math knows that these things have a mathematical possibility.

Cool, up another $1,000 just using Red /Black and reading randomness. In other words, no charts, just the marquee as a single group chart. I could have stopped at $100+ a long way back.

Theprecogmiles is now in 10th position on MPR out of 2000 players.

So what is the significant value of this practice game? Has there been any complaints that it is not real?

Quote from: gizmotron2 on Apr 28, 04:25 PM 2020
So what is the significant value of this practice game? Has there been any complaints that it is not real?

Only those who lose complain it is not real.

Why does someone else tell me to use ready. Do I slow everyone down?

Yes you are slowing them down. Many players get their bets down very fast then click the ready button to speed the game up. Other players race through many spins to find a trigger or fill a tracker or what ever so they also click the ready button to speed things up.

When I play sometimes my game is fast and sometimes it's slow. If I'm playing slow I don't mind the full 30 seconds but if I'm playing fast I use the ready button.

It should be simple for everyone, if you log on and there is no one playing then you can use the whole 30 seconds and tell anyone who logs in afterwards to f*ck off when they complain, cause you were there first. But if you log on and other players are there using the ready button then you should also use the ready button or f*ck off yourself.

I ask but don't demand of people already logged on if they could use the ready button. But if I'm already logged on and you show up and start taking the whole 30 seconds I will give you a serve for being rude and inconsiderate, or I'll just put up with it for a little while then leave, depends at what stage my session is.
It's the players who show up and slow the game down then ignore any requests to use ready or answer any question who are most upsetting for other current players. They are often suspected as being bots, which are not tolerated on MPR.

You see it often, a player logs on, refuses to communicate, never clicks ready and after 100 spins you check there position on the leaderboard and they haven't placed a single bet.

Where's Bombus when you need him!

Good, and thanks. I like the fuc* off button. I'll try.

I went in again and made another $1,000. Nobody was there and I used the ready button anyway. I'm in the top 250 already. This doesn't mean anything, does it?

Quote from: gizmotron2 on Apr 28, 09:22 PM 2020
I went in again and made another $1,000. Nobody was there and I used the ready button anyway. I'm in the top 250 already. This doesn't mean anything, does it?

Nope. In fact NONE of the results from individual players means anything, because none are statistically significant yet.

What is statistically significant is the OVERALL result from all players combined. And that's perfectly in line with the house edge.

Unless you're an AP or consistent winner, the casino doesn't give a shit who wins or loses. They only care they are getting the expected amount. If there's a discrepancy, or individual threat, they'll deal with it.

Other than that, and regulatory compliance, it's just maximizing revenue from floor space.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 28, 09:44 PM 2020
Nope. In fact NONE of the results from individual players means anything, because none are statistically significant yet.

What is statistically significant is the OVERALL result from all players combined. And that's perfectly in line with the house edge.

Unless you're an AP or consistent winner, the casino doesn't give a shit who wins or loses. They only care they are getting the expected amount. If there's a discrepancy, or individual threat, they'll deal with it.

Other than that, and regulatory compliance, it's just maximizing revenue from floor space.

What a wonderful possibility for pretzel logic. I haven't lost a session yet. And since it's about the math I will continue not losing any sessions.  I know when the gantlet is thrown down. When I make a leap to $100+ in each session I will quit that session. This going for ten times that was just showing off. I can win $100 every time without fail. And 10,000 Bozos that can't don't mean nothing to my abilities. It's playing experience, knowing that this game flows in waves, and knowing how to exploit those waves. I know you are not interested in any of this, and will never believe it either. But your logic just then is not scientific.

If you want to prove it on mpr, please do so and shut everyone up.

But please dont do what turbo did - brag, then leave when he started losing, attack the game and me, then move to RS where there are loads of millionaires.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 29, 12:17 AM 2020
If you want to prove it on mpr, please do so and shut everyone up.

But please dont do what turbo did - brag, then leave when he started losing, attack the game and me, then move to RS where there are loads of millionaires.

Aside from MPR and you don't trust RS propose a neutral site to play this prove game.

Quote from: cht on Apr 29, 01:52 AM 2020
Aside from MPR and you don't trust RS propose a neutral site to play this prove game.

1. I don't know anything about the source of spins, whereas I know for sure MPR spins are from random.org. RS probably uses linux PRNG which is notoriously flawed.

2. It appears there are an inordinate amount of millionaires at RS. Looks to me quite unrealistic.

3. The website is funded from advertisements that promote casinos. It would benefit from people thinking their system worked. So there is motive there to promote casinos, not to provide an accurate method of testing systems.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 29, 02:15 AM 2020RS probably uses linux PRNG which is notoriously flawed.

What makes you think that it's flawed? In the past it had vulnerabilities but in kernels > 48 /dev/random uses a different and cryptographic PRNG, and I haven't seen any reports that it's flawed.

On a different topic, how does the scoring system on MPR work?

Because last time i tested, it wasnt convincingly unpredictable. Same reason that online casinos wont use it.

Quote from: gizmotron2 on Apr 28, 11:50 PM 2020What a wonderful possibility for pretzel logic. I haven't lost a session yet. And since it's about the math I will continue not losing any sessions.

Giz, I don't know how the scoring system on MPR works, for some reason Steve doesn't want to tell us, but however it works, you can't have a blanket scoring system for all bets, staking systems etc which accurately tells you whether your results are statistically significant. You have to take into account how many numbers you're betting, and the number of wins. Then there's the question of statistical power (probability of a Type II error). I'm not suggesting that any of the systems players are using are long-term winners, but you can't say that none of the results are statistically insignificant, just based on the number of bets. You don't need many thousands of bets to show significance.

Quote from: Joe on Apr 29, 05:28 AM 2020for some reason Steve doesn't want to tell us

Actually i published the algorithm before it was coded, and allowed anyone to have input. It is in an earlier thread in the mpr board.

And which username has statistically significant results, with positive results? Maybe a few, but still well writhin norms.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 29, 04:59 AM 2020
Because last time i tested, it wasnt convincingly unpredictable. Same reason that online casinos wont use it.

"wasn't convincingly unpredictable".
Can you be more specific how you come to this conclusion.
That it gives the bettor what kind of predictable advantage?

Quote from: Joe on Apr 29, 05:28 AM 2020..... but you can't say that none of the results are statistically insignificant, just based on the number of bets. You don't need many thousands of bets to show significance.

Can you provide a framework what's the minimum requirement to satisfy signifance for EC bet.

It had repeating sequences where clusters of numbers gave clues to numbers in the near future. Old excel versions had the same problem although much worse.

There were other issues and i concluded almost every prng has problems. It doesn't mean they are fully exploitable though even after testing billions of spins.  Every prng is different.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 29, 06:58 AM 2020
It had repeating sequences where clusters of numbers gave clues to numbers in the near future. Old excel versions had the same problem although much worse.

There were other issues and i concluded almost every prng has problems. It doesn't mean they are fully exploitable though even after testing billions of spins.  Every prng is different.

Hv you tested RS prng to determine if this repeating clusters giveaway flaw exist as well to the extent that it's exploitable?

No, i dont have time to test every play money game.

Besides if someone wants to seriously test a system, never use an unknown source of spins. And you can't easily test enough spins to properly test a system, with with RS or MPR.

Use auto software for volume testing. Anyone who says they don't need to test that many spins because they'll never play that many spins doesn't understands basics.

Quote from: cht on Apr 29, 06:54 AM 2020Can you provide a framework what's the minimum requirement to satisfy signifance for EC bet.

After around 5000 bets you will reach the 'long run' betting the even chances, which means you're past the point before which you can attribute success to luck. Luck runs out after that, so if you're still in profit - flat betting - you probably have reasons for optimism, although it doesn't necessarily mean you have the HG. But you don't need anywhere near this number to get 'statistically significant' results. Just because it's possible to get a great result by chance in a relatively small number of bets, doesn't mean it's not statistically significant. This is because (a) again you have to know the limits of luck; if the result goes beyond 3 or 4 standard deviations it may well be more than luck, and (b) just because it's possible to get a lucky streak this is still unlikely as long as you're not playing over and over until you get a good score, like a scammer might do so he can then cherry-pick and 'prove' his system works on youtube.

In MPR, you essentially have one shot, although there are people who have multiple accounts. If you have one chance to prove your system and it seems to be winning, more likely than not you have something and it's not just luck.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 29, 06:27 AM 2020And which username has statistically significant results, with positive results? Maybe a few, but still well writhin norms.

I'm not saying anyone has statistically significant results, only that you can't say that nobody has. You don't know because the scoring system doesn't measure it; it only ranks players. So you could say player X is better than player Y, but you can't say whether player Y's results are statistically significant or not.

Quote from: Steve on Apr 29, 07:24 AM 2020
Use auto software for volume testing. Anyone who says they don't need to test that many spins because they'll never play that many spins doesn't understands basics.

I would say Steve is right here.

Personally, you have to be honest with yourself.  What do I mean by that?  Stop wasting time on number generators. Random.org has been around for years. They don't know what you using the number's for. They have no reason to cheat. If they did, trust me they wouldn't have been around this long.

Download 100,000 numbers from there. Write your software to beat those numbers. Problem solved you have a winning system. Wrong.

Once you have created the system from 100,00 spins download another file with 1,000,000. Run your software through that and see where it stands.

Good luck.

The true 'test' of a winner isn't even it beating a million spins. It's having a valid reason or cause of why it wins. If you can demonstrate mathematically or physically why it must win, then you can rest easy. Otherwise, there's always going to be the doubt and possibility that it will eventually fail.

Quote from: Joe on Apr 29, 08:20 AM 2020
The true 'test' of a winner isn't even it beating a million spins. It's having a valid reason or cause of why it wins. If you can demonstrate mathematically or physically why it must win, then you can rest easy. Otherwise, there's always going to be the doubt and possibility that it will eventually fail.

There will always be people in doubt.   Again, you can take a horse to the water but can't make it drink. If you really do have a winning system, would you share it?  As long as you are happy with it, go play it. Why have the negativity in your life?

Quote from: Steve on Apr 29, 12:17 AM 2020
If you want to prove it on mpr, please do so and shut everyone up.

But please dont do what turbo did - brag, then leave when he started losing, attack the game and me, then move to RS where there are loads of millionaires.

What I meant by this "meaning nothing" is that by my own experience this is not real money. There's very little "skin in the game" going on with it. I do get that people make claims and then don't stick to them. My own work on Reading Randomness includes quitting a session at 7 net losses and ending each session at 3 net wins. This was suggested to have those learning it create a fixed data set for research purposes.  That went to establishing a balance point at 2.33 sessions won to balance one lost session at 7 net losses. Most trying this went along with those restrictions. But getting $100 from this simulated play for each session goes to a different aspect of Reading Randomness. I know what it takes to wait for opportunity and to avoid pitfall. For me it is completely simple. I'm beating this game with one data group and its two sets.  I normally search for opportunity among 6 groups and 12 sets. So once I get beyond it just being luck I still don't think this will prove anything. There is no risk other than reputation.  I did a lot of things that are considered very difficult and very scary in my earlier days. In every one of the activities I was lousy at first. This challenge is after I went through lousy long ago regarding Roulette. So just because I can do this does not mean other people will be willing to go through lousy to get to the level of skill that it takes. 

Quote from: Joe on Apr 29, 05:28 AM 2020
Giz, I don't know how the scoring system on MPR works, for some reason Steve doesn't want to tell us, but however it works, you can't have a blanket scoring system for all bets, staking systems etc which accurately tells you whether your results are statistically significant. You have to take into account how many numbers you're betting, and the number of wins. Then there's the question of statistical power (probability of a Type II error). I'm not suggesting that any of the systems players are using are long-term winners, but you can't say that none of the results are statistically insignificant, just based on the number of bets. You don't need many thousands of bets to show significance.

Systems don't work because the player sticks to them. Then the system walks right into a sequence that kills them off. I don't do that. I watch for changes. I'm very good at seeing conditions change. You must act fast and be agile in doing so. System players are mostly asleep. It's a skill. I know how to get in on singles on the weak side for instance. It's just a matter of seeing conditions and taking a small section of the condition before it ends. That is a skill. It's also a skill of becoming aware of the current condition of effectiveness in the session.  System players don't bother with that either.

QuoteSystems don't work because the player sticks to them. Then the system walks right into a sequence that kills them off. I don't do that. I watch for changes. I'm very good at seeing conditions change. You must act fast and be agile in doing so. System players are mostly asleep. It's a skill. I know how to get in on singles on the weak side for instance. It's just a matter of seeing conditions and taking a small section of the condition before it ends. That is a skill. It's also a skill of becoming aware of the current condition of effectiveness in the session.  System players don't bother with that either.

i do not think that by betting even chances you will go long way

Quote from: Joe on Apr 29, 08:20 AM 2020
The true 'test' of a winner isn't even it beating a million spins. It's having a valid reason or cause of why it wins. If you can demonstrate mathematically or physically why it must win, then you can rest easy. Otherwise, there's always going to be the doubt and possibility that it will eventually fail.

I have demonstrated that a constant unending flat bet on Red alone causes the effect that I search for in order to win a session. It brings out the up and down waves that naturally occur. It then becomes a matter of just playing those waves effectively. So that alone should answer the "why" question in Reading Randomness.  So the obvious question once that is stipulated would be is it possible to read the  up and down waves. By playing at MPR all I can do is demonstrate it in long term testing. Someone suggested 5,000 bets placed.  I can keep track of sessions won and if any sessions lose, then sessions lost and get a win to loss ratio. But I would need a stop loss point to determine that. Since this is not my 7/3 suggestion for people learning Reading Randomness I think I will give myself a lot of room to maneuver. I will take a lost session at $1.000 down from the session's start point. I don't use martingale type progressions to recover. I just bet small when I can't see opportunity and bet big when I do. Since this is all about proving that there are opportunistic targets in randomness that should be a good enough test. For me the math and the odds are irrelevant.

Quote from: cht on Apr 26, 10:19 PM 2020Look up this principle of thermodynamics and educate yourself about entropy. Match the game played with this principle. There's much more than the game I revealed.

Hi CHT,
I give it a try if you give me your played numbers which fit to your posted picture of the results.
Cheers

Quote from: Joe on Apr 29, 08:20 AM 2020It's having a valid reason or cause of why it wins

This is the quote of the day! Well said!!!

Quote from: Azim on Apr 29, 08:25 AM 2020
There will always be people in doubt.   Again, you can take a horse to the water but can't make it drink. If you really do have a winning system, would you share it?  As long as you are happy with it, go play it. Why have the negativity in your life?

I was convinced that I could not only share it but teach it too. And the result is that only a few can do it. It takes a lot of hard work to get the skill and experience needed to use it. But it is free and it is a failure for a few that have tried it. It makes me happy to share it. It's like sharing rock climbing in Yosemite. The reward comes from what it does to you and not what you think impresses others. My late brother was taught by his mentor to "make the book thick."  The book on me is thick. This is just another chapter.

Quote from: gizmotron2 on Apr 29, 09:01 AM 2020
I was convinced that I could not only share it but teach it too. And the result is that only a few can do it. It takes a lot of hard work to get the skill and experience needed to use it. But it is free and it is a failure for a few that have tried it. It makes me happy to share it. It's like sharing rock climbing in Yosemite. The reward comes from what it does to you and not what you think impresses others. My late brother was taught by his mentor to "make the book thick."  The book on me is thick. This is just another chapter.

I would love to read it if it's free.  Does it have instructions as to what to look for and how to?  If it is well documented and easier to read, i caould code it for you and others to play with and learn.

I have time to spare considering we are in a lockout.

"Reading Randomness is a single thread. It is backed up by a software instruction thread and software download threads. The Even Chance Pro 1.4 version is the best version to practice on.
gamblingforums dot com/threads/reading-randomness.14733/"

It's right there in my signature. You have to reassemble the link.

I'm under attack, as usual. But I do get the job done.

To program it you need to teach the software to do situational awareness, opportunity recognition, effectiveness awareness, and then optimal execution of bet selection and timing. Have a ball.

I looked at it there...  I had to register..  I didn't want to.

if it's not a hassle can you email it to me if yes, I will message you my email?

Thanks
Azim

Quote from: Azim on Apr 29, 12:04 PM 2020
I looked at it there...  I had to register..  I didn't want to.

if it's not a hassle can you email it to me if yes, I will message you my email?

Thanks
Azim

You want to register there so that you can see all the pictures of charts.  I wrote it there once so that I would not have to communicate with individuals. If you want personalized communications that cost me a lot of time then you need to pay me for my time. I spent more than 120 hours per student and charged them for my time. This is now free. Nobody wants the payed version for some reason. Every time I offer the payed version they all opt for the free version. Are you any different?

Ok, no worries. I wasn't doing this for a fee. I would have let everyone have it for free to see it for themself.

As you said, different people have different ways of understanding if laid outright.


I will see if I feel like registering and reading from a forum...

Bottom, I will see if I want to register.

Thanks.

Quote from: Azim on Apr 29, 12:46 PM 2020
Ok, no worries. I wasn't doing this for a fee. I would have let everyone have it for free to see it for themself.

As you said, different people have different ways of understanding if laid outright.


I will see if I feel like registering and reading from a forum...

Bottom, I will see if I want to register.

Thanks.

You don't need to register to read it. You just need to be logged in to see the full images.

This image would run here, but I'm always logged in here, so who knows:

I think the video links work without logging in:

link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx361BSc__0

If you really claim that you can read randomness and that you have an edge in the long run, why don't you play for real money in an online casino? Even for very small stakes.

Start a new thread with something like this: "My Journey from $10 to $1000 by reading randomness in an online roulette"

Play as much as you like and update the thread with results, screenshots.

This goes for any player claiming to have found a winning "system" or "approach".

If you can manage to turn $10 to $1000 by reading randomness, you will get a lot more believers and clients who will pay you good money for coaching.

Quote from: Joe on Apr 29, 08:20 AM 2020
The true 'test' of a winner isn't even it beating a million spins. It's having a valid reason or cause of why it wins. If you can demonstrate mathematically or physically why it must win, then you can rest easy. Otherwise, there's always going to be the doubt and possibility that it will eventually fail.

I totally agree with this. rrbb also wrote that you need zero spins to determine if a system is a long term winner or not.
A system has a fixed set of rules, and after reading them, you can immediately tell if there is a sequence or sequences of outcomes that can make it tank. If there is, than it will happen eventually. But you can also tell if it tries to break the roulette facts. (and proofs) Then it is again a sure loser.

Quote from: winforus on Apr 29, 02:53 PM 2020
If you really claim that you can read randomness and that you have an edge in the long run, why don't you play for real money in an online casino? Even for very small stakes.

Start a new thread with something like this: "My Journey from $10 to $1000 by reading randomness in an online roulette"

Play as much as you like and update the thread with results, screenshots.

This goes for any player claiming to have found a winning "system" or "approach".

If you can manage to turn $10 to $1000 by reading randomness, you will get a lot more believers and clients who will pay you good money for coaching.

I  have tried online. I tried Bovada where I have very limited cryptocurrency access. I'm not convinced that they don't cheat. I've tried to confirm that they don't cheat.  It's very fast and the people there don't hammer me to use the ready button. But it's very fast. I like the speed of a busy live table in a B&M casino. It's slow enough to get complicated bets down before the "no more bets" are called.  I can't use my full charts online with the only game that might not be rigged. I can hardly keep up with Rapid Roulette Stadium play.

So far, thank goodness, I have been very effective at not getting any more students that I have to nursemaid thru learning this. I did that at a time I was concerned that too many people would rush to learn this. I wanted to know for sure if this could be learned by others. Just a small handful knowing my secret was just fine with me. I still have a use for the skill. But I had to see if a person with no skills could learn the skill. So three people payed me money to teach them. Then someone a year later convinced me that people will not do the work, especially if it were free. I get an extra kick out of using human nature as a defense mechanism as a method to protect and still share the skill. I want my discovery known. I really want the mathNazi's to get the message last in line and too late.  So I have done this my way. It looks like those that are perfecting the skill are being very hush hush about it. That's that human nature factor kicking in once again. Go figure.

Anyway, I don't want to work that hard, like 120 hours, bottle feeding a student for peanuts. And this is kind of wonderful anyway. I've got a real good chance of kicking the bucket with all this COVID - 19 stuff. So I get an extra thrill watching people that are sure that they know better, pass by bags of gold just laying at their feet.  Take you for instance. You are going to pass up free instructions on how to gain the skills. It's somehow my responsibility to prove it to you first, even when I gave it all away for free. It's like you have your very own space program and you haven't figured out that the earth is round yet. Columbus comes along and you still don't have it figured out. When I watch people reject it because of math I just laugh. They are so sure what they know what is real. So I give you this often used quotation: "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble; it's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

Quote from: Joe on Apr 29, 08:20 AM 2020
The true 'test' of a winner isn't even it beating a million spins. It's having a valid reason or cause of why it wins. If you can demonstrate mathematically or physically why it must win, then you can rest easy. Otherwise, there's always going to be the doubt and possibility that it will eventually fail.

This valid reason can be easily rationalised and checked with actual spins to understand why it wins.

Vaddi, dyslexic, turbo, rrbb and the rest of the systems gurus on forum.
None of them offered a valid reason why their voodoo system wins.

AP and RC seems to fulfil this why category in a broadbrush manner. Don't be fooled.
I hv yet to read the specific why in their design and/or application.
Reason why no one should accept someone's claim that their AP or RC work. Ask the why. Then test the why if the spins uphold it's claim.

Quote from: cht on Apr 29, 06:00 PM 2020This valid reason can be easily rationalised and checked with actual spins to understand why it wins.

Hi CHT,
thats the reason why I ask you for the spins to generate your picture

Quote from: cht on Apr 26, 09:36 AM 2020Another simple 37spins FLATBET game winner.

Thanks for your help

Hi CHT,
sorry for my morning blindness.
Now I saw your post.
Thanks

Quote from: gizmotron2 on Apr 29, 05:56 PM 2020
I  have tried online. I tried Bovada where I have very limited cryptocurrency access. I'm not convinced that they don't cheat. I've tried to confirm that they don't cheat.  It's very fast and the people there don't hammer me to use the ready button. But it's very fast. I like the speed of a busy live table in a B&M casino. It's slow enough to get complicated bets down before the "no more bets" are called.  I can't use my full charts online with the only game that might not be rigged. I can hardly keep up with Rapid Roulette Stadium play.

There are more than enough of slower wills online, on reputable sites. That is BS.

Bottom line, is that you are writing a bunch of claims (just like a million of other people before you), claiming to have a winning method/approach, without providing any proof/evidence. Many have done so before you came here and then disappeared, to be never heard of again.

If you are serious about what you have to say, start with posting screenshots and graphs of winnings + your sessions.

A good rule of thumb  to all the players out there:

Before handing the money over to anybody claiming to have a winning method/approach, always ask for PROOF and evidence! Also for proof,evidence, and vouches from former students. If that player cannot provide proof of winnings - they are more likely than not a losing player. It's simple as that.

There are thousands of methods that are posted and shared on this forum. 99.99% of them don't work (except physics and precognition). If you were to spend your time trying to test them - you would have to end up spending 1000 years on that, it's simply not practical. Thus, before investing money/time into any method - there should be some kind of proof or evidence.

Quote from: winforus on Apr 30, 04:45 AM 2020There are more than enough of slower wills online, on reputable sites. That is BS.

It's not BS, but it probably is ignorance on my part. I hope so.

I just found this:
" 1. Is the casino Provably fair?

Whenever you play at a casino (physical or virtual one) there’s always the option that the house may be cheating. Of course with the more respected casinos this is rarely the case, but if you go to a somewhat unknown Bitcoin casino site, how can you know that you are getting the winning odds you’re supposed to get.

A trustworthy Bitcoin casino will know that their “house edge” is enough to make a profit and therefore will want to prove to their players that they are not manipulating any results. They do this through a mathematical algorithm involving cryptography (link:s://thebitcoinstrip.com/blog/what-does-provably-fair-mean.html .

Bottom line, a provably fair casino will show you how to check that the results of the game you play are completely random. :.bitstarz.com/provability-explained . If a casino can’t supply this proof or isn’t provably fair I suggest betting with caution.

From Best Bitcoin Casinos 2020 - Massive List (US Approved No Deposit Bonus) "

Is this real? Can there be fair online Roulette with verifiable spin results and no hassle payouts?

Now I will continue to read your response....

I read the rest of your comment. So what? You think that you get to mandate what is fair? I have given it away for free. I spent 36 years working on it. By all means pass it up. How many of these mechanical contraptions of your 99.99% have clearly given it away for free with so much self verifiable support as I have? I don't care who passes it up. I only care about those that will exploit it until it is too late. It's a skill. If you learn it and do good at it then you will have all the proof that you need. I think it's funny to watch the grievance committee trying so hard to protect others. There's that human nature kicking in again in order to protect the opportunity. I must be really smart. I'm counting on you and your spandex suit to save us all. Thanks a heap for your service.

I was not talking about RNG wheels! I was talking about real-live wheels, which you can place bets online on! The same wheels that you would play at real casinos at, you can place bets on online.

Hence, I will repeat it. You are free to start a thread, and share your results, and graphs. Dublin Bet is an example of a reputable site, that has many real live wheels available for you to place bets.

Until you show proof - you are no different than a thousands of players came here before you, that eventually disappeared.

Quote from: winforus on Apr 30, 07:17 AM 2020Hence, I will repeat it. You are free to start a thread, and share your results, and graphs. Dublin Bet is an example of a reputable site, that has many real live wheels available for you to place bets. Enough of excuses.

1. Can a US resident play, deposit money or crypto, withdraw the same at Dublin?

There is this possibility: "Live Online Roulette Games
There are more instances of cheating at roulette in online casinos than in traditional casino rooms.

One common cheating method of online casinos is showing video footages[sic] of the roulette wheel that are not live at all.
Usually, the taped video will buffer towards the end. This will make the player think that it’s just a connection problem when in fact; it’s the exact time when the video tape will switch to the live version.
Interestingly though, there have been instances when the same roulette wheel footage was played in different casinos. The process looks the same but the outcomes are different."

I have heard that Dublin has real players at these live tables that can verify spin results so that there is clearly no cheating going on. I wonder if there is a way to play there for US residents?

BTW, I have no problem beating a fair RNG.

As I suspected, "DublinBet is not accepting US players. Whether you are from Florida or Illinois, the access to DublinBet.com will be blocked or you will not be able to register to DublinBet online."

So relax a little. Polish your Spandex, iron your cape. I'm searching for a fair game of Roulette that takes US players.

Quote from: gizmotron2 on Apr 30, 07:27 AM 2020
1. Can a US resident play, deposit money or crypto, withdraw the same at Dublin?

There is this possibility: "Live Online Roulette Games
There are more instances of cheating at roulette in online casinos than in traditional casino rooms.

One common cheating method of online casinos is showing video footages[sic] of the roulette wheel that are not live at all.
Usually, the taped video will buffer towards the end. This will make the player think that it’s just a connection problem when in fact; it’s the exact time when the video tape will switch to the live version.
Interestingly though, there have been instances when the same roulette wheel footage was played in different casinos. The process looks the same but the outcomes are different."

I have heard that Dublin has real players at these live tables that can verify spin results so that there is clearly no cheating going on. I wonder if there is a way to play there for US residents?

BTW, I have no problem beating a fair RNG.

Evolution gaming does a lot of live wheel roulette. With a chatroom where you can chat with other players. Would be really something if they managed to manipulate the outcome because you can check every bet with all the other players...

For USA residents, betonline.ag is one of the best options.

Steve has also listed it as on his site, as the best place to play for US residents:

link:s://:.roulettephysics.com/live-online-roulette-reviews/

Online casinos also allow you to play for much smaller stakes than in land casinos. Some have the stakes as low as 10 or 20 cents. You can play for the minimum, and share your progress - It would put you on a total different plane.

Quote from: winforus on Apr 30, 07:44 AM 2020
For USA residents, betonline.ag is one of the best options.

Steve has also listed it as on his site, as the best place to play for US residents:

link:s://:.roulettephysics.com/live-online-roulette-reviews/

Online casinos also allow you to play for much smaller stakes than in land casinos. Some have the stakes as low as 10 or 20 cents. You can play for the minimum, and share your progress - It would put you on a total different plane.

Thanks, I'll check it out. Bovada cheats at the live table and requires $5 bets on outside bets. I took a $50 crypto deposit and turned it into $1,400 in four days. I took back a profit of $500 and played the rest. Then I started losing every session. I tried to confirm that there was cheating going on with tips, hand movements of the dealer, and any evidence that I could find for video manipulation. There are no live players at the tables. They can target anyone that they want with stitched together video outcomes. I know this because as a programmer I could do it. And the dealers can chat live while doing that. I think they cheat. I'm at a break even point with them so I won't go back the them.

This from the link above " This casino streams live video from a real casino. If you only trust spins from a real land-based casino that anyone can physically walk in and play, this one’s for you. The only downside is sometimes the tables get busy and the wheel spins infrequently, although there are other wheels provided that spin more frequently. "

I love it. It has real players (shills) just kidding, and it actually plays slowly, the way that I like it. Anyone here have any troubles with this casino?

Quote from: gizmotron2 on Apr 30, 07:08 AM 2020
I read the rest of your comment. So what? You think that you get to mandate what is fair? I have given it away for free. I spent 36 years working on it. By all means pass it up. How many of these mechanical contraptions of your 99.99% have clearly given it away for free with so much self verifiable support as I have? I don't care who passes it up. I only care about those that will exploit it until it is too late. It's a skill. If you learn it and do good at it then you will have all the proof that you need. I think it's funny to watch the grievance committee trying so hard to protect others. There's that human nature kicking in again in order to protect the opportunity. I must be really smart. I'm counting on you and your spandex suit to save us all. Thanks a heap for your service.

First of all if you are the genuine article then why the f*** are you wasting your time with entitled ingrates?!

The type that feel like they should be privy to congratulatory insight just because they discovered this site.  Or ask you to jump hoops for them only to offer mere scraps in return for your revelatory insight.  Why are folks so damn petty and entitled? 

What does it serve you to be on here?  Altruism, recognition, what?  You clearly don't need them. 

Those folks and the scammers are two peas of the same pod on opposite ends of the spectrum.  [But if you're just a scammer then carry on.  Not much needed to be said about them that hasn't been said ad nauseam e.g. unscrupulous, assholes, etc.,.]

In case you're confused, I'm partial to you're argument

Quote from: winforus on Apr 30, 07:17 AM 2020
I was not talking about RNG wheels! I was talking about real-live wheels, which you can place bets online on! The same wheels that you would play at real casinos at, you can place bets on online.

Hence, I will repeat it. You are free to start a thread, and share your results, and graphs. Dublin Bet is an example of a reputable site, that has many real live wheels available for you to place bets.

Until you show proof - you are no different than a thousands of players came here before you, that eventually disappeared.

This is by no means an indictment on you specifically, although if you qualify then you should take heed as well; it's a PSA.

I am NOT surprised no one objects to petty entitlement but rail against scammers all day.  If each complicit individual on this site took internal audit of themselves they would suspect the glaring HYPOCRISY within themselves.

People wanting something tangible through blood, sweat and tears, for free or mere scraps are just as DEPLORABLE as the scammers who feed off the very same folks by offering them false hope for...  mere scraps.

It's like some regular Joe wanting partial credit for a boxing championship belt an athlete worked hard all their lives for just because they have a temperament of a 12 year old.  What sense does that make?

To the petty and entitled faction AND the scammers: You deserve each other.

Quote from: Moxy on Apr 30, 02:46 PM 2020
First of all if you are the genuine article then why the f*** are you wasting your time with entitled ingrates?!

The type that feel like they should be privy to congratulatory insight just because they discovered this site.  Or ask you to jump hoops for them only to offer mere scraps in return for your revelatory insight.  Why are folks so damn petty and entitled? 

What does it serve you to be on here?  Altruism, recognition, what?  You clearly don't need them. 

Those folks and the scammers are two peas of the same pod on opposite ends of the spectrum.  [But if you're just a scammer then carry on.  Not much needed to be said about them that hasn't been said ad nauseam e.g. unscrupulous, assholes, etc.,.]

In case you're confused, I'm partial to you're argument

Ha Ha ha! You win the prize. You have found me out sort of. This is the closest to asking the right questions so for in decades. Why put up with it? I have to go back to the days of just hinting at it and sort of exposing the "effectiveness states" at the old Gambler's Glen forum. That was when I decided that an all out reversal of beliefs was to be executed as a war against the then labeled "mathNazis," a correction from then accepted tag "mathBoyz."  It is in fact Snowman, the destroyer of GG that is still seen all around the internet forums. That obnoxious SOB use to convict me of claiming the ability to predict future outcomes based on past spins. He had that syndrome worse than a Trump hater.  I grew to have my own vindictive plan and that is to use Reading Randomness as one of the biggest "Oh no, it can't be true" moments in opportunities missed in history. Nobody will be able to say that I kept it to myself as some kind of common intellectual selfishness. And it will serve up the finest excrement snack for them to chew on for decades to come. I've had a full experience life. I've had the highest highs and the lowest lows. I just wanted to see what it was like to change things a little and to do the unbelievable. I decided to do the opposite of human nature.

These forums are the best place to do this. I know that they are filled with all sorts of players at different stages of learning how to gamble. We get the ubiquitous Martingale transformation zealots, the fully engulfed system junkies, led by the greatest crash test dummy of them all, TurboGenius. There's this new interest in the 6th sense. And the mathNazi's and their surrogates are here in their stages too. It's all a menagerie of personally focused  experts and learners on a quest for the Holy Grail. Why not here.

I could kill this long running thing any time I write a sim that proves it. I'd rather see someone else write that software. It would even be a greater achievement to have someone else write it after I have exposed it.

Quote from: Moxy on Apr 30, 03:14 PM 2020To the petty and entitled faction AND the scammers: You deserve each other.

Now that level of introspect can cause harm to so many locked up at one time.

Quote from: gizmotron2 on Apr 30, 03:37 PM 2020
Ha Ha ha! You win the prize. You have found me out sort of. This is the closest to asking the right questions so for in decades. Why put up with it? I have to go back to the days of just hinting at it and sort of exposing the "effectiveness states" at the old Gambler's Glen forum. That was when I decided that an all out reversal of beliefs was to be executed as a war against the then labeled "mathNazis," a correction from then accepted tag "mathBoyz."  It is in fact Snowman, the destroyer of GG that is still seen all around the internet forums. That obnoxious SOB use to convict me of claiming the ability to predict future outcomes based on past spins. He had that syndrome worse than a Trump hater.  I grew to have my own vindictive plan and that is to use Reading Randomness as one of the biggest "Oh no, it can't be true" moments in opportunities missed in history. Nobody will be able to say that I kept it to myself as some kind of common intellectual selfishness. And it will serve up the finest excrement snack for them to chew on for decades to come. I've had a full experience life. I've had the highest highs and the lowest lows. I just wanted to see what it was like to change things a little and to do the unbelievable. I decided to do the opposite of human nature.

These forums are the best place to do this. I know that they are filled with all sorts of players at different stages of learning how to gamble. We get the ubiquitous Martingale transformation zealots, the fully engulfed system junkies, led by the greatest crash test dummy of them all, TurboGenius. There's this new interest in the 6th sense. And the mathNazi's and their surrogates are here in their stages too. It's all a menagerie of personally focused  experts and learners on a quest for the Holy Grail. Why not here.

I could kill this long running thing any time I write a sim that proves it. I'd rather see someone else write that software. It would even be a greater achievement to have someone else write it after I have exposed it.

You are an interesting cat, mate.

Quote from: gizmotron2 on Apr 30, 06:57 AM 2020I just found this:
" 1. Is the casino Provably fair?

Whenever you play at a casino (physical or virtual one) there’s always the option that the house may be cheating. Of course with the more respected casinos this is rarely the case, but if you go to a somewhat unknown Bitcoin casino site, how can you know that you are getting the winning odds you’re supposed to get.

A trustworthy Bitcoin casino will know that their “house edge” is enough to make a profit and therefore will want to prove to their players that they are not manipulating any results. They do this through a mathematical algorithm involving cryptography (link:s://thebitcoinstrip.com/blog/what-does-provably-fair-mean.html .

Bottom line, a provably fair casino will show you how to check that the results of the game you play are completely random. :.bitstarz.com/provability-explained . If a casino can’t supply this proof or isn’t provably fair I suggest betting with caution.

I just posted a vid on another forum about this. The Wizard of Odds has found that even 'provably fair' casinos can and do cheat.

I guess they assume that players won't actually check the hash every time. They might at first, but it's a pain having to do it and most will stop after a while, assuming that the casino is being honest. After all, if the casino knows that it can be proved that they are cheating, why would they take the risk? But it seems this one did.

link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=8OXjKcheAug

Quote from: Joe on May 01, 05:04 AM 2020
I just posted a vid on another forum about this. The Wizard of Odds has found that even 'provably fair' casinos can and do cheat.

I guess they assume that players won't actually check the hash every time. They might at first, but it's a pain having to do it and most will stop after a while, assuming that the casino is being honest. After all, if the casino knows that it can be proved that they are cheating, why would they take the risk? But it seems this one did.

link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=8OXjKcheAug

This is where it really pays off to be a programmer. Thru a simple to program string wrangling function you can extract both seed examples and run them off to compare results with a single button click. It might take a cut and paste of the existing HTML rendering at the time. I doubt that a bot would be allowed to intercept secure socket layer data. But the rendered text of the page is sitting right there for you to copy and past it into a slaved system. You just copy the text of the entire view to the clipboard of your computer and then click the button. Out pops the expected result. If it does not match then they are cheating you.