Hey guys
Everyone who wants can provide me their hardest session in 200 spins. With hardest I mean with most differens between Red and Black.
Ex:
73/127
Differens is 54 as you can see between red and black.
The fellow member UK at roulette30 forum looked at 20 million spins or 100.000 sessions of 200 spins. There will never be less than 65 reds or blacks in 200 spins.
The member Belgian is explaining it all, well not all, but almost.
link:://rouletteforum.x/index.php/topic,9.0.html (link:://rouletteforum.x/index.php/topic,9.0.html)
link:://rouletteforum.x/index.php/topic,8.0.html (link:://rouletteforum.x/index.php/topic,8.0.html)
Here you have the Labouchere progression:
link:://:.x/2010/06/labouchere-progression-in-depth.html (link:://:.x/2010/06/labouchere-progression-in-depth.html)
Who will provide me with a real horror session? Then I will see if I can make a profit out of it.
I will use a "labby" as they call it, it's a progression, which Belgian states can survive any 200 spins and end with minimum 1 unit profit without reaching the table limit. I will begin to bet on the colour with less hits in the 200 spins.
I will use the "labby" with 64 zero's and a one. (To win 1 unit atleast)
This thread can also be a discussion about this concept.
Provide your spins in a text file so we can have this thread clean.
Thanks to Kav, Belgian, UK and all the others.
Cheers
What is labby? can you explain a bit?
link:://:.x/2010/06/labouchere-progression-in-depth.html (link:://:.x/2010/06/labouchere-progression-in-depth.html)
Quote from: albalaha on Dec 31, 09:35 AM 2010
What is labby? can you explain a bit?
its the slang word for Labouchere progression
e.g. martingale = marty
@Fripper
i will follow this thread with great interest, good luck
Labouchere is not capable of carrying long streak of losses, it will turn dangerous gradually.
Quote from: albalaha on Dec 31, 09:49 AM 2010
Labouchere is not capable of carrying long streak of losses, it will turn dangerous gradually.
And I assume you have tested with 64 imaginary zero's and a one?
This isn't the usual Labouchere like 1,1,2,3.
It can be : 00000000000000001
Anyone who can provide some spins? :)
From Belgian:
"I played this way with imaginary zero's starting with 0,1 the Hamburger Permanense (25-10-1999, Table 1) from spin 37 till spin 237 on R (RB or BR or RR), because in this session of 200 spins there are 69 Reds and 131 Blacks. Worse I could not find over the year 1999, and playing this session I won 17 units. Maximum bet was 304 units."
I'm not sure if he used the 64 imaginary zero's in that one tho.
Dear Marcus,
What are you saying? why 64 zeros? In labouchere you will pick red or black and your pick should go more than 50% to win minimum 6 units. Say, you pick red and in 30 spins it appears even 14 times and in next 20 spins, it comes 5 times only with distance, what will happen? Labouchere is not an answer my dear.
@ Fripper
is this the correct method?
1,2,3 bet 4 lose -4
1,2,3,4 bet 5 lose -9
1,2,3,4,5 bet 6 lose -15
1,2,3,4,5,6 bet 7 lose -22
1,2,3,4,5,6,7 bet 8 lose -30
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 bet 9 win -21
2,3,4,5,6,7 bet 9 lose -30
2,3,4,5,6,7,9 bet 11 lose -41
2,3,4,5,6,7,9,11 bet 13 win -28
3,4,5,6,7,9 bet 11 lose -39
3,4,5,6,7,9,11 bet 14 win -25
4,5,6,7,9 bet 13 win -12
5,6,7 bet 12 win 0
6 bet 6 win +6
Is that the laby you are intending to use?
Quote from: albalaha on Dec 31, 10:09 AM 2010
Dear Marcus,
What are you saying? why 64 zeros? In labouchere you will pick red or black and your pick should go more than 50% to win minimum 6 units. Say, you pick red and in 30 spins it appears even 14 times and in next 20 spins, it comes 5 times only with distance, what will happen? Labouchere is not an answer my dear.
Sumit, Please read the threads posted before you say to much. The logic will come to you if you read it, it did for me. Altough I had to read it quite a few times.
I have done some testing with just 9 zero's and a one. The results have been excellent.
Look at Belgians posts..
---------------
"So we have to find away to get rid of these long losing streaks, or at least make them last as short as possible according to the probability. How can we do that?
Answer: by changing the odds of 50:50 into 75:25 or even 87:13.
How can we do that?
Answer: to combine 2 or 3 chances in one figure!
75:25: RB RB BB RR
87:13: RRR RRB RBB BBB BRR BBR BRB RBR
So play 2 decisions (pairs)(75:25) and treat them as one for the Labby but replace by a lost 2 zero's because that is only 1 bet (1:2)"
Quote from: superman on Dec 31, 10:13 AM 2010
@ Fripper
is this the correct method?
1,2,3 bet 4 lose -4
1,2,3,4 bet 5 lose -9
1,2,3,4,5 bet 6 lose -15
1,2,3,4,5,6 bet 7 lose -22
1,2,3,4,5,6,7 bet 8 lose -30
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 bet 9 win -21
2,3,4,5,6,7 bet 9 lose -30
2,3,4,5,6,7,9 bet 11 lose -41
2,3,4,5,6,7,9,11 bet 13 win -28
3,4,5,6,7,9 bet 11 lose -39
3,4,5,6,7,9,11 bet 14 win -25
4,5,6,7,9 bet 13 win -12
5,6,7 bet 12 win 0
6 bet 6 win +6
Is that the laby you are intending to use?
Well no..and yes..
You have the main thing, the labouchere. But we start with 9 zero's and a one instead.
Read reply 30 by Belgian, in fact, read all his posts.
link:://rouletteforum.x/index.php/topic,9.30.html (link:://rouletteforum.x/index.php/topic,9.30.html)
You can start like this superman:
0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
Quote from: Fripper on Dec 31, 09:26 AM 2010
Who will provide me with a real horror session?
Hi Fripper,
When I get home on Monday I'll write some code to find the worst deviations in 200 spins and upload them here.
Quote from: Bayes on Dec 31, 10:33 AM 2010
Hi Fripper,
When I get home on Monday I'll write some code to find the worst deviations in 200 spins and upload them here.
Thanks Bayes
I knew you would be the man on this.
Until then I will continue to test some of my own harder sessions.
Remember guys, the aim is to win atleast 1 unit in 200 spins 100%. It can also take 1 spin, but you should always play until your labby goes to an end, never have a stoploss, atleast that's what belgian says (and he seems to know what he's talking about).
I'm not sure if I can clear these horror sessions, if not, then we have to figure it out together.
Cheers and a happy new year.
@Fripper.
Am I right in thinking, that with A Labby set at the starting point of
64 zero's and a single 1, that after 31 spins, Ur BR would be down by 31 units?
I haven't pencil worked it out, just in my head in last ten seconds after finding this interesting new Topic.
I love maths.
Quote from: chrisbis on Dec 31, 10:51 AM 2010
@Fripper.
Am I right in thinking, that with A Labby set at the starting point of
64 zero's and a single 1, that after 31 spins, your BR would be down by 31 units?
I haven't pencil worked it out, just in my head in last ten seconds after finding this interesting new Topic.
I love maths.
Hi Chris
You are right that you will be down 31 units if you bet red and it has come 31 blacks in a row from start.
I can give an example tomorrow with 9 zero's and a one, so you get the point.
:)
I'm with U all the way.
Happy New Year buddie.
Have a good one. :thumbsup: :)
Level of Labby.
1......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
2......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
3......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,01,1,1
4......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1
5......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1
6......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1
7......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
8......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
9......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
10....................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
11....................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
12....................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
This is the Labouch-er Progression starting with 9 zero's and a single 1. (Losing Streak)
The above table shows how the table would expand, given a bad ass losing streak of
12 straight losses, ie:- Bet on Black and Red resulted 12 times consecutively.
At the end of this losing session (12 spins) U would be down on Ur BR by -12 units.
Quote from: chrisbis on Dec 31, 12:33 PM 2010
Level of Labby.
1......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
2......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
3......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,01,1,1
4......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1
5......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1
6......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1
7......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
8......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
9......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
10....................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
11....................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
12....................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
This is the Laboucher Progression starting with 9 zero's and a single 1. (Losing Streak)
The above table shows how the table would expand, given a bad arse losing streak of
12 straight losses, ie:- Bet on Black and Red resulted 12 times consequetively.
At the end of this losing session (12 spins) you would be down on your BR by -12 units.
Chris, that maybe be so. But it isn't how Belgian plays it.
As you can see in the threads :)
Level of Labby
1......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
2,.....................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
3......................0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
4......................0,0,0,0,0,0,1
5......................0,0,0,0,0,1
6......................0,0,0,0,1
7......................0,0,0,1
8......................0,0,1
9......................0,1
10....................1
And here is the same 9 zero's plus 1 unit, on a straight consecutive winning steak.
Full Labouch-er progression completed after 10 spins
Profit at this point after 10 wins, would be up on Ur BR by +20 units.
Is this correct Fripper?
labby progression
Start at:
0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
If you lose 1unit bet 2 unit
If you lose both of these you get:
0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,2
Lets say you win with bet unit 2: You take away last and first numbers, in this case 0 and 2:
0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
And so on..
--------------------
Here comes Belgians explanation:
start Labby 0,1
R 1 unit win
B no bet (ending first pair) EOS
R 1 unit win
B no bet EOS
R 1 unit win
R no bet EOS
R 1 unit win
R no bet EOS
B 1 unit loss
B 2 unit loss (ending first pair) Labby now: 0,1,1,2
B 2 units loss
B 4 units loss (ending second pair) Labby now: 0,1,1,2,3,3 (4+2=6:2=3)
R 3 unit win Labby now: 1,1,2,3
R no bet (ending third pair)
B 4 unit loss
B 8 units loss (ending fourth pair) Labby now: 1,1,2,3,6,6
R win 7 units Labby now: 1,2,3,6
R no bet (ending fifth pair)
B 7 unit loss
R 14 units win (end of 6th pair) Labby now: 2,3
R 5 unit win
B no bet (ending seventh pair) all figures canceled in the Labby End of session.
Total session: +5 units.
Ok, I see now.
:thumbsup:
Marcus,
Can't you put the entire method in "full system" in your own words than showing us links of other forums and lots of 00000 and 1111. Put it in simple language buddy, if you feel this to be a nice system.
Quote from: albalaha on Dec 31, 01:08 PM 2010
Marcus,
Can't you put the entire method in "full system" in your own words than showing us links of other forums and lots of 00000 and 1111. Put it in simple language buddy, if you feel this to be a nice system.
Please, read the threads.
If you do, like I did, you will see that this isn't easy to understand and I myself haven't got it all yet, maybe I'm on a good way, I don't know. You are gonna have to read it more then twice to understand it, atleast I did before I understood something.
Because of this, I won't put it in a new thread. You can ask any questions, and I can maybe answer them for you. I'm just sharing what I found and I find it very interesting and it needs more views.
Your ideas and inputs are welcome here.
Hello.
I really need to thank Belgian for his very wonderfull idea and hints!
I made my own system based on his idea.
The rare event that I am looking for is in 60 spins to have 18/42 of RED and BLACKS.
You have to admit that this is a VERY rare thing to happen!
I didn t find any permanence like this in the German site(after searching for some hours) of the real roulette spins BUT I invented my own session from hell! Grin
I also made the wins very spread in those 60 spins in order to be very prepared in the real game to see the maximum BR that i am gonna need.
My winning target is +10 chips (so if I will have at least 18 of 42 I will end up with +10)
I devepoped a special modification of "labby" progression and the Maximum down( - ) inside the hell session was -140 chips...The biggest bet that I had to make was 98 chips in 1 spin.
So the Br needed to win in this hell session is 140 chips....
I really don t know why Belgian needs 1.500 chips?
I guess is because he playes the original labby?
Anyway thanks again....you gave me hopes !
Hey Guys,
Will someone please clarify the system for haven's sake. It is kind of labouchere, I got it but not the standard one. How many chip you start with? what is the difference?
Quote from: albalaha on Jan 01, 07:14 AM 2011
Hey Guys,
Will someone please clarify the system for haven's sake. It is kind of labouchere, I got it but not the standard one. How many chip you start with? what is the difference?
link:://:.x/2010/06/labouchere-progression-in-depth.html (link:://:.x/2010/06/labouchere-progression-in-depth.html)
There is the standard one.
Now, instead of start betting 1,2,3 you start with 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1. If you want to, you can choose how many zeroes you want, the more the safer.
The rest can you read about in Belgians posts.
Right now I'm struggling with a session that I found.
Fripper you don't need to search for sessions...
You can make 1 hell session from urself....it doesn't have any deference.
I am thinking that the only problem with this way of playing would be when in the labby we will be at the final bettings and the Ec does NOT win....then the progression would be like martignale!
@VIP
The secret is that U play the EC's in pairs.
ie. R-R, R-R, R-B, R-B, B-R, B-R, B-B, B-B
I have asked Belgian for clarity on the pairs sequence, whether random, or strict list.
I saw that he posted something like that,but isn t it a contradiction from his early posts?
In his early posts he said that it doesn't matter where we bet....and that we can bet the same bet all the times...eg on the RED
@VIP
Yes, Chris is right. If you look you will find that combining 2 or 3 figures will reduce the losing streaks.
Like this:
BB RB BR BB RR
or 3:
RBR BBR BBB RBB
I like to search for "hell" sessions because in that way I can see how rare it is to happen, I learn something on the way so to speak.
I will attach a 200 spin session with 123 Reds and 77 Blacks. The differens is 46 as you can see. Even this event is rare to happen, I found this after searching over 10000 spins..
But when Bayes will give this a go he will find how often we can expect this rare events.
Play this file and only bet on black.
The start is very hard.
After 35 spins we have, 28 reds and 7 blacks. After that it is very hard to recover. But I will test it with 64 zero's and a one.
Remember, don't use any kind of stoploss. Always end the labby.
Quote from: VIP on Jan 01, 11:08 AM 2011
I saw that he posted something like that,but isn t it a contradiction from his early posts?
In his early posts he said that it doesn't matter where we bet....and that we can bet the same bet all the times...e.g. on the RED
Maybe be so Jordan, I don't know. It isn't easy to find out either if we study his posts..
We should test together and fint out the best way.
OK.
The only thing I want all of you to know is that the ORDER of the wins - losses is the factor that can kill this system even if the quantity of the wins are like we want
eg as he says 65/200 or any other ratio
Think he was looking at 65/131 Red/Black ratio protection (ie. Black is 66 more spun than Red)
70 more blacks than reds was the ultimate killer.
But I suppose that depends when they show up.?
The other think is, given that the "Killer" game can reach the dizzy heights of 28 of one colour showing as in Frippers example- would U really play that hand, or would U have either waited a while, for the Tsunami to pass, or moved on to some other form of system/method play? ?
???
""""But I suppose that depends when they show up.?"""
Yes chris this is what i am talking about
..............which obviously relates directly to where U the player are in the revised Labby progression.
If Ur well down in the scheme of things,
and lets say U have played 40-50 spins so far,
and the progression has held up reasonably well,
with the imaginary Zero's in toe,
and then the streak run from hell arrives on the 2.30 from Uttoxeter,
on the back of the Horse called- "Where do U want these 20 Reds Then Mister"............ I think U would be "killed" off in the subsequent betting sequence!
I wouldn't go there myself, but I see the logic in studying the process.
I believe in the real world situation, faced with this kind of scenario,
U would obviously go and seek an alternate EC bet,
but that there-in belies the problem,
of other EC's giving equally killer results for the desperate player,
who is trying to recover.
Quote from: chrisbis on Jan 01, 11:26 AM 2011
The other think is, given that the "Killer" game can reach the dizzy heights of 28 of one colour showing as in Frippers example- would you really play that hand, or would you have either waited a while, for the Tsunami to pass, or moved on to some other for of system/method play? ?
???
Chris
The thing is that we don't know when a bad run will happen. Therefore we have to consider the worst and make our method out of that. You have to expect the worst, like 130/70. You have to be certain that even if your start is very bad you will win in the end of the labby, no matter what.
Marcus,
Can You show this method in any sample session? That would help all understand its capability.
Quote from: albalaha on Jan 01, 11:48 AM 2011
Marcus,
Can You show this method in any sample session? That would help all understand its capability.
I can, but not right now. Maybe tomorrow or something :)
I just tried the session with 77/123.
I tested with 9 imaginary zero's and a one.
I did bet with the 75/25 rule. In 2 figures that is.
If I could I divided the bets to 3 figures, well divided by 2 at the start and then 3 to be correct.
I did it just to keep to bets low.
+0 in 126 spins. It should have been +1, but somewhere I did a mistake on some calcs and I must have missed one unit somewhere. The important thing is that I cleared it.
Highest bet 438 units.
Lowest point 1255 units.
So a bankroll of 1500 would be needed.
As you can see the bets become very high, maybe there is a way to reduce them even more, I don't know.
I will test this with 65 imaginary zero's and a one to see the difference.
:thumbsup:
And I thought that my 98 chip highest bet was very BIG...hahahhaa
And where will u find a table my friend to allow you to place a so big bet? :D
Quote from: VIP on Jan 01, 01:36 PM 2011
And I thought that my 98 chip highest bet was very BIG...hahahhaa
And where will you find a table my friend to allow you to place a so big bet? :D
Just look around and you will found it, there are several of them out there.
Belgians highest bet so far have been 304 units. He does something different, and this was on a harder session than mine, atleast I think so.
I will try to reduce my bets with some new ways.
:thumbsup:
I think there are some misconceptions in the concept. Risking 1200 units and working out for so long, calculating so much to gain o unit is not very practical. We gamble to earn something taking risk of whatever we put in. No risk no gain. There can't be a completely insured bet which can earn too.
Quote from: albalaha on Jan 01, 10:52 PM 2011
I think there are some misconceptions in the concept. Risking 1200 units and working out for so long, calculating so much to gain o unit is not very practical. We gamble to earn something taking risk of whatever we put in. No risk no gain. There can't be a completely insured bet which can earn too.
200 spin session is the max to be certain to win 1 unit atleast. If you don't like it I don't blame you. If this is winning then there is no doubt that I will play it.
Will be back with some new testings soon.
I think no one would like to play 200 spins to earn 1 unit, which is also as unsure as anything in the roulette risking thousands of units and working for hours. Doesn't make any sense. My perception only. Why don't you show the method(progression) by any sample session?
If you do not mind, I give you a sample session of 50 spins only where you are playing red and it came 17 times only in the manner I show you. Play your method here:
BBRBBRBBBR-RBRBBRRRBR-BRBBB0B0RB-BRBBBBBBRB-0BRRBBBBRR
Quote from: albalaha on Jan 03, 12:31 AM 2011
I think no one would like to play 200 spins to earn 1 unit, which is also as unsure as anything in the roulette risking thousands of units and working for hours. Doesn't make any sense. My perception only. Why don't you show the method(progression) by any sample session?
If you do not mind, I give you a sample session of 50 spins only where you are playing red and it came 17 times only in the manner I show you. Play your method here:
BBRBBRBBBR-RBRBBRRRBR-BRBBB0B0RB-BRBBBBBBRB-0BRRBBBBRR
Hehe, if you were certain to win 1 unit? Not thousands of units to bet, as you can see Belgian tested the worst day he could ever find 69/131 and his highest bet was 304 units.
If you think that no one would play this method if it was certain to win, then you are way of track.
This is the worst that can happen, and you have to test these to be certain to win everytime you play, everyone should test like this if you ask me.
Ofcourse almost all the sessions will end much quicker and win like 15 units or whatever you prefer.
I could show you a test right now but I have not tested this myself enough to give you an workable example. I'm not certain about all the rules that he plays with. I will continue to look at his posts and see what I can do to keep my bets low as possible.
:)
QuoteI could show you a test right now but I have not tested this myself enough to give you an workable example. I'm not certain about all the rules that he plays with. I will continue to look at his posts and see what I can do to keep my bets low as possible
Dear Marcus,
Do you understand what are you saying? If you don't understand it fully, what is the purpose of this thread/topic? Apply whatever you got from the method to my given session and try to reach somewhere atleast. So much appreciation of a system without even understanding it completely is very comic. Any other supporter of this method willing to clarify it?
What the purpose is?
- Well it is for people to discuss about these principles and that's what this forum is about, to discuss.
I haven't said that I understand it fully and that is because Belgian only gives hints in his posts.
I'm not sure if you even have read his posts..
By then you must have understood that the labby must always end and that's not sure with these spins you provided. But, I can check them and put results here, if that's the thing that you want.
Do your homework please, not everything comes to you for free.
QuoteSo much appreciation of a system without even understanding it completely is very comic. Any other supporter of this method willing to clarify it?
Wether you think it will work or not is probably best kept to yourself, you are "almost" attacking Fripper, I said almost, please note that!
If people like Fripper just give up when 1 person reacts in the negative then we aint gonna get far with anything.
I am sure when Fripper can clarify it he will, keep going Fripper, I can't make head or tails of it yet, currently deeply involved with something else so can't do any testing, BUT I personally feel maths or some sort of money managelemnt is going to be the only way to survive, especially on RNG
Didn't have time yesterday, but the horror sessions are on their way today. :)
Looking for the worst-case scenario is always worth doing, and "Belgian" (actually his username was Perkin in the VIP thread) did claim to do consistently well with the progression, although it was never completely clear how he was using it.
Quote from: Bayes on Jan 04, 02:59 AM 2011
Didn't have time yesterday, but the horror sessions are on their way today. :)
Looking for the worst-case scenario is always worth doing, and "Belgian" (actually his username was Perkin in the VIP thread) did claim to do consistently well with the progression, although it was never completely clear how he was using it.
Nice to here Bayes!
The problem with hard sessions isn't to clear them, the hard thing is to keep the bets within the table limits. I am experimenting on that, Belgian have said some very good advices to do just that.
Ok, I used the file of 700,000+ wiesbaden spins and divided it into 200 spin windows, there were 11 such windows in which there were less than 75 wins for a particular even chance. I think this has to be the toughest sequence, betting on EVEN:
0
12
12
25
6
9
19
23
1
9
19
35
23
35
25
1
29
1
7
11
19
9
21
33
20
28
11
21
11
1
7
15
11
0
5
25
1
28
33
3
23
10
17
35
34
19
21
34
21
5
5
33
29
20
13
3
11
26
4
36
1
11
14
25
24
1
18
32
36
8
34
7
4
21
4
25
34
35
3
21
28
4
6
23
9
36
20
35
24
25
27
17
1
30
15
35
16
33
24
20
8
26
23
11
35
23
27
35
8
6
16
0
8
17
5
17
4
9
28
27
10
7
26
33
13
24
32
25
7
30
30
12
17
21
22
33
15
12
19
20
17
28
13
27
9
9
6
28
25
17
19
26
29
3
36
21
13
10
27
9
26
11
25
35
13
28
31
11
23
19
18
24
13
9
20
6
18
12
14
28
33
36
32
7
31
9
31
11
13
1
0
31
8
31
0
7
35
33
11
10
I've uploaded the file containing the other "horror" sequences (including the one posted above). I have also included the next 200 spins in the sequence which follows the horror sequence, so that you can see how the spins play out if most of the losses come at the end, so there are 11 sets of 400 spins.
Now, I anticipate that some will object that they would not play these sequences through to the end, or that they will use some other "fancy" bet selection (ie; not simply betting one side of an even chance). Fair enough, but just keep in mind that a sequence like one of these could occur no matter what bet selection you're using, and similarly, if you think you can avoid it by keeping to a "loss limit", please tell me why it will never happen that when you start play again (after hitting your loss limit) you will not immediately hit another losing sequence, so that no matter how you break up the 200 spins, you will never get a similar ratio of wins to losses (ie; less than 75 wins out of 200, whether they are played in a single session, or broken up over several).
The point is to try to find a way to at least break even when you hit this kind of sequence, if you can do that (and keep in mind that these horror runs are very rare - only 11 sets of sequences in over 3,500 had less than 75 wins), then as long as you can make fair returns the remainder of the time, then it should be reasonable to claim that you have the game beat. Just don't stick your head in the sand or pretend it will never happen you. :P
Thanks Bayes for you work!
I have some news, they are good.
In the hard session of mine were there was 123 Red and 73 blacks I cut down my bets to 164 units betting on black. Highest bet 164 units and lowest point was -597 units.
That is much better than before were the highest bet was 406 units.
Again I have used Belgians hints and made up a strategy that seems very good and safe.
-------
I will go away some days and will be back on sunday. So in sunday night I will explain how I play it for you who did wonder and I will also try some of your horror sessions Bayes! ;)
:thumbsup:
Cheers
Quote from: Bayes on Jan 05, 01:55 PM 2011
I've uploaded the file containing the other "horror" sequences (including the one posted above). I have also included the next 200 spins in the sequence which follows the horror sequence,.
Hi,
What constitutes a "horror sequence" as you've called it?
A lack of something? Too much of something?
I'd like to try this against some MM and wagering plans here locally but I don't know what you're doing to get your "wins and losses".
One would think that any sequence of events that are "one-sided" in outcomes should produce a bonanza of wins, no matter which side it appears on.
Or did I completely miss the original problem?
AD
Quote from: ADulay on Jan 05, 05:54 PM 2011
What constitutes a "horror sequence" as you've called it?
A lack of something? Too much of something?
Yes, a strong deviation against your chosen bet selection. In the case of the sequence I posted above, if you had chosen to bet EVEN on every spin, then your sequence of wins of losses would have started off like this:
L
W
W
L
W
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
W
W
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
W
L
L
L
W
L
L
W
L
L
W
L
L
L
L
L
W
L
L
L
W
W
W
Again, I want to emphasize that mathematically, ANY bet selection is subject to the same deviations, so the above sequence of wins and losses
could have been generated by a more "sophisticated" bet selection. It's too easy to say, in hindsight, that "I would never have used bet selection XYZ"; that is not a valid get-out clause.
QuoteJust don't stick your head in the sand or pretend it will never happen you.
:smile: i just had to quote you on that ...
As they say in the scouts: "Be prepared". ;)
Quote from: Bayes on Jan 06, 09:43 AM 2011
As they say in the scouts: "Be prepared". ;)
That's why I wanted the "horror" sessions at the first place, testing this way will give us a hint about how a bad session will come and how to take advantage of it.
So far this seems to good to be true, but you never know..
:thumbsup:
The problem with this kind of play is when we have a lot of Wins in the begining of the session and in the end when we are left with 2-3 needed wins to complete the seesion the losses will be very highly added on the few bets....so in the end esspecialy when we will be left win just 1 more needed Win the system becomes Martignale.....
A lot of trouble for nothing
Quote from: VIP on Jan 06, 11:47 AM 2011
A lot of trouble for nothing
You have to be adaptable. If you get more wins at the beginning of the session you can just shift the 200 spin "window" forward and set aside your wins.
Quote from: Bayes on Jan 07, 04:49 AM 2011
You have to be adaptable. If you get more wins at the beginning of the session you can just shift the 200 spin "window" forward and set aside your wins.
And the Use Ur BR to attempt another session using a different system.
Exactly how I play.
Be very flexible, adaptive, and above all, have Ur wits about U.
Its up to U the player to take/seize the advantage-
don't let the casino/operator/game platform take the initiative.
Quote from: VIP on Jan 06, 11:47 AM 2011
A lot of trouble for nothing
I agree with Bayes
"You have to be adaptable. If you get more wins at the beginning of the session you can just shift the 200 spin "window" forward and set aside your wins"
We always set a goal of how many blacks/reds that are the minimum we need to have and then set our progression out of that.
:)
Hi there everyone!
I've just completed the horror session from bayes, see attached file.
I did bet even if someone wonders.
I got +4 in 71 spins
Highest bet was 54 units.
Lowest point was -147.
I played until the "labby" with 9 zeroes and a one ended.
After 71 spins we had this:
49 odd
20 even
Yes, I did bet on red in the session, why? I will come to that later.
That was one hell of a start Bayes! Like 20 evens in a row or so.. But with the method I play it doesn't matter, I'm avoiding these longer series :)
I will explain how I play in a later post.
Here is also an attached excel file there you can see how I did bet.
Cheers
QuoteI will explain how I play in a later post
Looking forward to it Fripper.
Nice one Fripper !
Look forward to ure updates :)
Hi guys.
I have to say again, read this three threads and read Belgians posts:
link:://rouletteforum.x/index.php/topic,9.0.html (link:://rouletteforum.x/index.php/topic,9.0.html)
link:://rouletteforum.x/index.php/topic,8.0.html (link:://rouletteforum.x/index.php/topic,8.0.html)
link:://:.x/2010/06/labouchere-progression-in-depth.html (link:://:.x/2010/06/labouchere-progression-in-depth.html)
I will try to explain here how I play the "labby".
A labby is a very powerful progression, you can adjust it in many different ways for your own personal choice.
Here is an example of 9 zero's and a one. This is very useful if you have excel (or similiar) and do it like this while your playing. Just have it under the roulette window or whatever you like.
[attachthumb=#]
Now to the rules that I use:
1 - Choose your preferable EC (Even chance bet) I usually bet on red.
2 - Always end your labby when you are playing. If you have 9 zero's and a one you shall play until you have no numbers left in the labby.
Now, as a sidenote to this. If you want to do longer sessions (I do) you just play as usual, always reset when you have a new high or break even or until you get 2 losses in a row. When you have 2 losses in a row you start with your labby and continue as usual.
3 - If you win your first bet in a figure, you take away the number to the right and also take away the number to the left in your labby. Also when you win your first bet in a labby you should not bet the next spin, so you end that figure. But if you win on your second attempt in your figure, you shall start your next figure directly after. (If you only have one 1, you shall not take it away, only take away the zero to the left)
4 - We will always use a mini-marty in every figure. With that I mean that if I start to bet 1 and lose, you should bet 2 next bet.
Another example, if your first bet in the figure is 6 and you lose, your next bet is 12 units.
5 - "So we have to find away to get rid of these long losing streaks, or at least make them last as short as possible according to the probability. How can we do that?
Answer: by changing the odds of 50:50 into 75:25 or even 87:13.
How can we do that?
Answer: to combine 2 or 3 chances in one figure!
75:25: RB RB BB RR
87:13: RRR RRB RBB BBB BRR BBR BRB RBR
So play 2 decisions (pairs)(75:25) and treat them as one for the Labby but replace by a lost 2 zero's because that is only 1 bet (1:2)"
6 - If you lose 2 spins in a row (one figure) you shall take away 2 zero's from your labby. Say you lost you first to bets, that is 1 and then 2 units.
Your new labby looks like this:
[attachthumb=#]
7 - "If a series of 4 appear I stop betting till the series brakes. Then continue the betting. In this way I don't have any problem with 68% (theoretical appearance % of series of 1,2 and 3) of the charts in terms of losing a bet in the labby. When a series of 4 or longer appears, it means my labby contains 2 more figures. The dangerous chart is therefore the appearance of alternating series of 4 and longer. After occurrence of 2 alternating series of 4, I will transfer half of the figures to another even chance that is the most choppy to divide the risks."
So if you have a total of 28 units in you labby, you transfer half of those (14 units) to another Ec, like high and low. Then you continue play as usual on both your Ec:s. You choose the most choppy one, but this is your personal choice.
8 - "So, you have a lot of possibilities to stay low in the bets during bad streaks, without spreading the labby into more figures needed to stay within the 1:2 ration needed to close the Labby. The way I play with pairs it means you need only 1:3 wins to close it (actually 1:3 plus 1 bet). So for example when you play on Red then you need only in 50 spins 13 Red to close it. That is already very close to the worst expectations in terms of Ecards. (see the figures given by Muck) and without taken into account the many possibilities you have to keep the bets low."
9 - As you maybe have understood you have to divide the losses yourself. Like if you lose 3 units and next bet 6 units. You should add 4,5 to your labby.
10 - Now if your bets get larger you can divide your bets into 3 figures. Like this:
lost 17+34 = 51 units
51/3 = 17 units
Add 17,17,17 to your labby.
But keep in mind that the more figures you have the more wins you need to end the labby.
Belgians Example
example according aggressive version, 9 imaginary zero's and a one (that is what you suggest). we play on Red. For 75:25 we bet on pairs:
start Labby 0,1
R 1 unit win
B no bet (ending first pair) EOS
R 1 unit win
B no bet EOS
R 1 unit win
R no bet EOS
R 1 unit win
R no bet EOS
B 1 unit loss
B 2 unit loss (ending first pair) Labby now: 0,1,1,2
B 2 units loss
B 4 units loss (ending second pair) Labby now: 0,1,1,2,3,3 (4+2=6:2=3)
R 3 unit win Labby now: 1,1,2,3
R no bet (ending third pair)
B 4 unit loss
B 8 units loss (ending fourth pair) Labby now: 1,1,2,3,6,6
R win 7 units Labby now: 1,2,3,6
R no bet (ending fifth pair)
B 7 unit loss
R 14 units win (end of 6th pair) Labby now: 2,3
R 5 unit win
B no bet (ending seventh pair) all figures canceled in the Labby End of session.
Total session: +5 units.
if 9 imaginary zero's are replaced by figures, the next loss bet has to be divided between the figures 9starting from the lowest ones.
My view
As you can see I have quoted a lot from Belgian from roulette30forum. All thanks to him!
This wasn't easy to write and I understand that this isn't easy to understand but it is the same for me.
Pratice, practice and more practice!
That's the way I learned.
Ofcourse I shall try to answer your questions.
I hope that my attached sessions will help you understand better.
One of them can you open with RX and see all details like betting history, graph and statistics and so on..
Hope this helped some to you guys.
When you have learned it you can develop your own strategy, as I said, there are many possibilities left.
I don't think that to many will understand the method in full, but you can try and do some research yourself and play more like you want it.
Cheers
Fripper
Fripper, how did you get on with the "horror" sequences I uploaded? :question:
Quote from: Bayes on Jan 10, 03:29 PM 2011
Fripper, how did you get on with the "horror" sequences I uploaded? :question:
Look at reply 61 in this thread. That was the hardest you said.
I will try the others out when I have time.
:thumbsup:
Edit:
"That was one hell of a start Bayes! Like 20
odd in a row or so.. But with the method I play it doesn't matter, I'm avoiding these longer series."
That should be odd, a typing error in the reply 61.
Yes, I saw reply #61. Nice work to end up in + with a relatively low drawdown and maximum bet. I just wondered whether you had worked through the other sequences. :thumbsup:
@Bayes
As I saw there was 11 sessions. It was also 200 spins that followed every session. These ones will I ignore if I doesn't need them.
-------------------
Session 1
Did bet red.
74 reds, 122 blacks
+1 in 17 spins, ended first labby
+6 in 42 spins, ended second labby
+11 in 83 spins, ended third labby
+13 in 117 spins, ended forth labby
+14 in 143 spins, ended fifth labby
+18 in 179 spins, ended sixth labby
Highest bet was 26 units.
Lowest point -41 units.
Will attach both RX file and excel file for you guys to study.
Cheers
Thanks, and impressive stuff. :thumbsup:
The program I'm working on will let you search for and play an unlimited number of sequences that meet some criteria which you choose (e.g. less than 14 wins in 50 spins, and this for any group of numbers (not just EC). It will also give stats - e.g. the number of sessions in which that particular scenario occurred, and the longest/shortest gap between occurrences. I think this will be a very useful tool and should answer a lot of questions which come up on the forums.
Quote from: Bayes on Jan 11, 06:28 AM 2011
Thanks, and impressive stuff. :thumbsup:
The program I'm working on will let you search for and play an unlimited number of sequences that meet some criteria which you choose (e.g. less than 14 wins in 50 spins, and this for any group of numbers (not just EC). It will also give stats - e.g. the number of sessions in which that particular scenario occurred, and the longest/shortest gap between occurrences. I think this will be a very useful tool and should answer a lot of questions which come up on the forums.
Thanks :)
That seems to be a very useful program, not just for me but everyone in the forum.
Keep up the good work.
:thumbsup:
Hi guys,
First of all thank you fripper for your work and help, I've been following this thread since the beginning and I read belgian's posts like 100 times but I still don t understand a lot of things and i have few questions for my first post.
1/ In the file "a harder session" u start betting on black and then u stop for betting on High why ? the main idea is you will always find at least 65/135 in 200 spins, isnt it ?
2/ I dont understand how u decide to combine the even chances to keep the bets low.
3/ what bankroll would u suggest to play this belgian said 1500/2000 units. . .
4/ could u give a little sample of how u play the labby on few spins plz
I will have more questions for later but first I m gonna study ur excel files
sry for my very poor english I hope u will understand
cheers
welcome to the forum aleks 8)
Little gift to all of you diligent researchers of even chances - some graphs of what happens there, zero is excluded for good visibility. As you can see - very often after a winning streak there is a losing streak, it is almost(but not always) a rule (winning streak, resistance, losing streak). There is no need to go with your head against a wall. Money management should consider these graphs. Adding zeroes to labby helps to ride out these losing streaks, but you have got to be synchronized with that EC. Just food for thought, nothing more. The progression have ONE big problem - there SHOULD be also positive one in that included, in order to utilize those winning streaks.
More food...
Thanks guys. Good questions aleks06, I will try to answer them later on.
Mr.ore, thanks for you graphs.
As you say: After a winning streak there is almost always a losing streak, and the opposite.
You suggest a positive progression when we have a winning streak, am I right? If so, how do we know when a positive run will happen? Shall we assume that after a longer losing streak we will have a winning streak? I find that very risky tho..
----------------
Session 2 from bayes
Did bet red.
74 reds, 117 blacks
+9 in 39 spins, ended first labby
+12 in 83 spins, ended second labby
+13 in 134 spins, ended third labby
+18 in 220 spins, ended forth labby
Highest bet 123 units.
Lowest point -241 units.
This was a harder session, the hard part was the labby 3 and 4. Needed more spins in the end to end the labby. Still, the forth labby only needed 86 spins.
Will attach both RX file and excel file for you guys to study.
Cheers
I get an error using openoffice when I try to open the excel file. mr.ore, you're a Linux user, any luck opening the file?
Quote from: Bayes on Jan 11, 08:59 AM 2011
I get an error using openoffice when I try to open the excel file. mr.ore, you're a Linux user, any luck opening the file?
Bayes, I get a question when I try to open it with excel, but I only press yes and it opens. I don't know if it will work with openoffice tho..
The excel file is the same as "Betting history" in RX so just open the other .zip file :thumbsup:
Part of the winnings might be used to try a positive progression, because sooner or later you will have to take a loss. Positive progression should compensate for that.
On no zero roulette ECs, there is a simple system for a win - play until you reach your target, or you lose your bankroll, whatever comes first. Probability to double your banrkoll is 1/2.
On no zero roulette ECs, if you have X unit bankroll and want to win(W) Y units (target = X+Y), probability that you will win Y units before you lose(L) that X units is:
P(W) = X/(X+Y)
P(L) = 1 - P(W) = 1-(X/(X+Y) = (X+Y-X)/(X+Y) = Y/(X+Y)
So for example, you have two units, what is the probability that you win one unit before losing two? P(W) = 2/(2+1) = 2/3. In no zero roulette, any chance with any payout can be simulated with even chance. If you win one unit before losing two, you write W, and if you lose two units write L, the Ws will be there 66,666% and L% 33,333% of time on average. You can even use that old WL methodology on these, if you thing it is useful.
To simulate a dozen: X=1, Y=2, P(W) = 1/(1+2) = 1/3
So any chance can be simulated this way. How to use that? Maybe in the same way as gambler's fallacy is used... If you bet 34 numbers, you usually win that one unit. So if you see a drawdown of 34 units from one point to another, you might take a risk and bet with a bankroll of 34 units until you are one unit in profit. This is the same as betting that last four numbers won't hit. This will tank in long term, of course, but maybe it would be useful for some big bets. Like delaying a bet of 100 units to certain event. It would need 34*100 = 3400 bankroll to have that high probability. In zero(s) roulette impossible feat because of house edge, maybe lover a target for recover by 1/37 for every unit bet. Or maybe use inside chances to survive longer...
Just thoughts...
rename to .xlsx
works in LibreOffice ok
Two sessions from hell, first is that from Bayes, second from the xlsx file.
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 11, 07:27 AM 2011
Hi guys,
First of all thank you fripper for your work and help, I've been following this thread since the beginning and I read belgian's posts like 100 times but I still don't understand a lot of things and I have few questions for my first post.
1/ In the file "a harder session" you start betting on black and then you stop for betting on High why ? the main idea is you will always find at least 65/135 in 200 spins, isnt it ?
2/ I don't understand how you decide to combine the even chances to keep the bets low.
3/ what bankroll would you suggest to play this belgian said 1500/2000 units. . .
4/ could you give a little sample of how you play the labby on few spins plz
I will have more questions for later but first I m gonna study your excel files
sry for my very poor English I hope you will understand
cheers
Thanks aleks06, appreciated :thumbsup:
1) I will quote this one, hope you understand.
"If a series of 4 appear I stop betting till the series brakes. Then continue the betting. In this way I don't have any problem with 68% (theoretical appearance % of series of 1,2 and 3) of the charts in terms of losing a bet in the labby. When a series of 4 or longer appears, it means my labby contains 2 more figures. The dangerous chart is therefore the appearance of alternating series of 4 and longer. After occurrence of 2 alternating series of 4, I will transfer half of the figures to another even chance that is the most choppy to divide the risks."
So practically when I have had lost two series of 4 I divide all my bets and put half on another EC and start a labby there to.
RRRR BRBRBR RRRR
If I had bet on black on this occasion, I would have stopped after the last 4 reds and waited until the serie ends.
In the same time I divide into another EC because I have lost 2 series of 4.
2) The answer is in the above text. If not, please rewrite your question.
3) Well, a bankroll of 1000 would be more than safe. Ofcourse maybe this can fall when you get like 90 reds and 10 blacks in 100 spins. But how often does that occur? We are still gambling as Belgian said.
I have only been down like 600 units and that is in the worst sessions of 700000 spins.
You will build up your bankroll all the time and if a losing session occurs and you lose 1000 units. That can't happen very often, that I'm sure of :thumbsup:
4) Ok, start with this: 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
Bet red
1 unit | R. Win 1 unit, labby is the same : 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1 +1
wait next spin because you won first bet in that figure
R
1 unit | B .Lose 1 unit
2 units | R. Win 4 units, labby is the same (because we are even or +1) 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1 +2
1 unit | R. Win 1 unit, labby is the same 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1 +3
wait next spin because you won first bet in that figure
B
1 unit | B. Lose 1 unit
2 units | B. Lose 2 unit. Labby now : 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,2 +0
2 units | B. Lose 2 unit
4 units | B. Lose 4 unit. That is: 2+4 = 6/2 = 3. Labby now: 0,0,0,0,0,1,1,2,3,3 -6
Now we wait until the serie of blacks breaks
B
B
R
3 units | R. Win 3 units. Labby now : 0,0,0,0,1,1,2,3 -3
wait next spin because you won first bet in that figure
3 units | B. Lose 3 units
6 units | R. win 6 units. Labby now : 0,0,0,1,1,2 +0
2 units | R. Win 2 units. Labby now : 0,0,1,1
wait next spin because you won first bet in that figure +2
R
1 unit | R. Win 1 unit. Labby now : 0,1
wait next spin because you won first bet in that figure +3
B
1 unit | R. Win 1 unit. Labby now : 1
wait next spin because you won first bet in that figure +4
B
1 unit | B. Lose 1 unit.
2 units | R. Win 2 units. End of labby. +5
24 spins
12 reds, 12 blacks
+5 units
thank you for your valuable assistance that helped a lot
I need to practice now ;)
This concept seems really promising
cheers
fripper I ve just made my first try, would u please have a look on my trial and identify the errors ? I did not finish it cos I need ur tips to keep the bets low I guess I have to transfer half figures to another even chance. . .
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 11, 12:14 PM 2011
Fripper I ve just made my first try, would you please have a look on my trial and identify the errors ? I did not finish it cos I need your tips to keep the bets low I guess I have to transfer half figures to another even chance. . .
Hi, you played it almost right.
Look at how I played it.
Download this two people, they are a good explanation I think.
Both text file and excel file attached.
:thumbsup:
Thanks it helped me a lot hehe
I thought you stop betting when a serie of 4 losing bets placed appear
"1 unit | R. Win 1 unit, labby is the same 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1 +3
wait next spin because you won first bet in that figure
B
1 unit | B. Lose 1 unit
2 units | B. Lose 2 unit. Labby now : 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,2 +0
2 units | B. Lose 2 unit
4 units | B. Lose 4 unit. That is: 2+4 = 6/2 = 3. Labby now: 0,0,0,0,0,1,1,2,3,3 -6
Now we wait until the serie of blacks breaks"
Anyway its just a detail.
Is there a reason for choosing HIGH ? is it the less choppy one ?
and spin 127 the labby is : 2,3,7,8,15,15,15
u could have transfer half figures to HIGH again maybe ?
Do you have a bet size limit ? like max 15 and then you transfer the figures ?
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 12, 06:15 AM 2011
Thanks it helped me a lot hehe
I thought you stop betting when a serie of 4 losing bets placed appear
Yes you are right. That was wrong of me.
I always stop if any losing streak of 4 appear. It could be:
RRR0
R0RR
In this case, we had 5 Blacks before I stopped, we should have stopped after only four.
Thanks for notice that.
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 12, 06:15 AM 2011
Is there a reason for choosing HIGH ? is it the less choppy one ?
Yes.
I choose
the most choppy one.
You can choose between the EC, like Even/Odd and High/Low.
I usually check which one of the four which is the most choppy one and bet on it. :thumbsup:
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 12, 06:15 AM 2011
and spin 127 the labby is : 2,3,7,8,15,15,15
u could have transfer half figures to HIGH again maybe ?
Do you mean spin 107? I see what you did there ;)
Well no, I wouldn't do that before 2 series of 4 have come out.
In this case, from spin 98, this is the first losing streak of 4. If a new losing streak of 4 had come up later on in
that labby I would have transfer half of the bets to another EC.
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 12, 06:15 AM 2011
Do you have a bet size limit ? like max 15 and then you transfer the figures ?
No, I only follow the rules.
When two losing streaks of 4 has come, I transfer ca half of the bets to another EC.
Cheers
:thumbsup:
Ok so you divide the labby every time you have 2 series of 4 in the same labby. It's clearer now thanks. I'll do some tests tonight ;)
Do you think you will play it for real one day ?
Yes sir, you got it :)
Test it until it is cristal clear for you. I have tested a lot and I feel very comfortable with it now.
I have already started to play for real :-[
Quote from: Fripper on Jan 12, 10:27 AM 2011
I have already started to play for real :-[
But it's only with very small bets, 0,01$ :)
ok nice whats ur win target for a session ? u play on RNG ?
I play at betvoyager.
I play until I get tired, after that you only make mistakes. Mistakes can be crucial sometimes, but in this progression we are very flexible, so we can just transfer some units to another bet if we miss some and so on..
My sessions have been from +22 to + 45.
I have played 6 sessions.
----
What do you guys think about instead of bet on 75/25 figures we can bet on 87/13 figures. Belgian plays with 87/13 figures he says. Not sure yet what he mean by it tho..
I have some ideas tho, that needs testing.
:thumbsup:
so you trust RNG fripper ? I guess you are playing on the "no ZERO" wheel
I did my second session plz have a look on this
77 spins +40
Quote from: Fripper link=topic=3280. msg31326#msg31326 date=1294855108
----
What do you guys think about instead of bet on 75/25 figures we can bet on 87/13 figures. Belgian plays with 87/13 figures he says. Not sure yet what he mean by it tho. .
I have some ideas tho, that needs testing.
:thumbsup:
when he/you say 75/25 and 87/13 u talk about the odds when u combine even chances like playing on black and low ? I never really understood what belgians means by this
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 12, 03:43 PM 2011
So you trust RNG fripper ? I guess you are playing on the "no ZERO" wheel
I did my second session plz have a look on this
77 spins +40
I don't trust it with my life, but enough to play on it :thumbsup:
I haven't seen anything weird yet.
Your session was fine until spins 31, have a look there and I finished the spins after that.
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 12, 03:43 PM 2011
when he/you say 75/25 and 87/13 you talk about the odds when you combine even chances like playing on black and low ? I never really understood what belgians means by this
No, Belgian talked about the odds when we play in pairs like 75/25 or 87/13, that is that you play in pairs like RB BR or RBB BBR and so on.
I'm not sure yet how he means either..
Divide into more ECs and bet like Black and low at the same time is a precaution to keep the bets low.
:thumbsup:
Belgian means to play FOR a pair of OUTCOMES. (Playing for a result to occur)
Like this. (Imagine U are talking to Urself...................)
"I am setting out to play for this result- RED, then RED
.....and then I am playing for this result to turn up- BLACK, then RED."
Do U get it now?
thank you again fripper
do you ever have divided a bet into 3 figures ?
I'm not sure I understand what you mean Chris :P
I thought Belgian meant:
Play in pairs like RB or BB
We bet red:
R win, don't play next spin in that pair.
B
R win don't play next spin in that pair
R
B lost
R Win
R Win don't play next..
That's how I play it, doesn't mean I'm right.
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 12, 04:36 PM 2011
Thank you again fripper
do you ever have divided a bet into 3 figures ?
Yes, when you feel comfortable with it you can try one of Bayes horror sessions in this thread.
In that ones I divided bets into 3 figures.
:thumbsup:
We are both right.
It means the same thing.
to play FOR a pair of results. Red/Red is a pair, then play for Black/Red, is another.
Tho each event is singular, tho he(Belgian) combines them to accentuate the wins potential.
So U WERE right Marcus. Spot on.
Great that we are on the same level here 8)
how do you determine the pairs ? like RR RB BB BR BB RR . . .
That's all down to UR game plan..
In other words, it more to do with how U want to play the game.
Of course, past history MAY help U decide, such that, if U are in the middle of a choppy sequence, then maybe U play for direct chops.
If the marque/wheel is running a series of a certain colour, or EC, (ODD/EVEN, HIGH/LOW) then U will bet according to the type of play that U think might be on its way to U in the form of forthcoming results.
You can play like Chris says but I don't do it.
I always bet on Red.
I always follow these rules, I don't care what pair that comes out.
1. If you win first bet in a pair, don't bet the last spin in that pair.
2. If you lose first and win the second bet, start another pair directly.
It's that simple.
Now, maybe I sound like an repeating machine :D
hey fripper
would u plz check this session I won t bother you again after this one :p
I think I got It now.
The most interesting part start at cell#391
cell #434 the "?" is a "->"
What do you mean by cell #391 ? It's just a win on red?
Yes, it seems that you are doing everything right.
Maybe a few small mistakes.
At cell 435 you did bet red without the serie of black had ended. Always wait until the serie breaks.
At cell 413 you did forget to take away the last two zero's.
Otherwise it's looking good I think. I can look over it more tomorrow when I have more time.
Good job on keeping the bets low.
:)
Not sure what you mean on cell 434...
thx for your time
I did some mistakes at the end I got tired.
I will try bayes horror sessions
:thumbsup:
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 13, 04:15 PM 2011
Thanks for your time
I did some mistakes at the end I got tired.
I will try bayes horror sessions
:thumbsup:
No problem.
Try to never get tired ;) If you do, stop playing and come back another time. It's the best way. That is, if you have ended the current labby
Yes do so. I will continue to test his sessions later this weekend. I have had much to do last days, but now I am good.
:thumbsup:
I read one of Belgians post again to seek some clarification.
I found this:
"if 9 imaginary zero's are replaced by figures, the next loss bet has to be divided between the figures 9starting from the lowest ones."
So if we have no zero's left and lose a bet, we divide that loss and put it on all the figures?
Like 1 unit on all or 2 units on all. Depending on the amount of the loss.
What do you guys think?
This could be a thing to keep the bets even lower.
hey fripper,
I was thinking about that yesterday doing bayes horror session.
I think its a good idea, I will test it.
Here's another approach you might like to try, taken from Norman Squire's book "How to win at Roulette". Note that it was written in the 1960s and talks about the old currency (I'm too young to remember it myself).
[attachthumb=#1]
[attachthumb=#2]
[attachthumb=#3]
Hey fripper, I ve just completed the first bayes horror session (bet red)
I start playing with "new rule" cell#127
+11 231 spins
biggest DD : -206
biggest bet : 46
easy ;D
Quote from: Bayes on Jan 15, 04:45 AM 2011
Here's another approach you might like to try, taken from Norman Squire's book "How to win at Roulette". Note that it was written in the 1960s and talks about the old currency (I'm too young to remember it myself).
Brother Bayes,
I have been studying that section in Squire's book on the Longest Haul and don't really understand how this method really helps keep your bets lower.
If I understand him correctly, he's betting 5 units (house minimum) until his standard labby shows that he needs to bet 6 or higher and then he bets 10 units until his standard labby shows that he needs to bet 11 or higher and then he bets 15 units etc...
Can you explain how you understand it for me?
Thanks,
George
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 15, 07:36 AM 2011
Hey fripper, I ve just completed the first bayes horror session (bet red)
I start playing with "new rule" cell#127
+11 231 spins
biggest DD : -206
biggest bet : 46
easy ;D
Hi there
Nicely done. You can look at reply 68 in this thread to see how I did it. That was a while ago and I think I can play it even better now, that is with some new rules that we have come up with.
:thumbsup:
Keep 'em coming!
@Bayes and all
Session 3
This is session 3 of Bayes "horror" sessions provided in this thread.
Did bet odd.
85 odd, 141 even
I played until spin 226 because of the last labby didn't end before 200 spins. (I could have just stopped after the 4th labby at spin 165)
+1 in 76 spins, ended first labby
+2 in 105 spins, ended second labby
+4 in 141 spins, ended third labby
+5 in 165 spins, ended forth labby
+7 in 226 spins, ended fifth labby
Highest bet: 126 units
Lowest point: -250 units
Both Excel file and the whole RX file is attached.
:thumbsup:
Cheers
Quote from: GLC on Jan 15, 01:00 PM 2011
I have been studying that section in Squire's book on the Longest Haul and don't really understand how this method really helps keep your bets lower.
Can you explain how you understand it for me?
Hi George,
To be honest, I haven't actually tried the method, I
thought I understood it, but maybe I don't. :-[
From the example given in the book, it seems to keep your bets lower, but could you not achieve the same thing by merely using a "normal" labby and starting with lower stakes? probably.
I'll work through a few examples in detail and start a new thread on the topic. One other technique which Squire covers (page 146 - "
Reduction of the split martingale line")
is useful in keeping your bets lower, but not that easy to implement in a B & M casino unless you're a whiz at mental arithmetic.
First I want to notify about my last post. (reply 114)
I attached two excel files instead of one excel and one RX-file.
I will attach the right RX-file here if anyone is interested.
Session 4
This is session 4 of Bayes "horror" sessions provided in this thread.
Did bet even.
114 odd, 69 even
+4 in 69 spins, ended first labby
+12 in 120 spins, ended second labby
+19 in 186 spins, ended third labby
Highest bet : 68 units
Lowest point : -185 units
Both RX files and excel file attached. :thumbsup:
Session 5
profit : 16units
203 spins
highest bet : 28u
lowest point : -55
Well done.
I will try it out to, some day.
:thumbsup:
So far this seems to good to be true, but who knows?
We have to test more and more.
Still we have cleared 5 of bayes 11 "horror" sessions that is the worst in 700000 wiesbaden spins. The hardest one have been cleared as well.
I'm not sure that this is the hardest session for the labby tho.
I have some thoughts about some hard sessions on my own. But that's just a thought.
Now, if we say we use a bankroll of 1000 and we lose it like 3 times in 700000 spins. That is a loss of 3000 units.
If we say we net 0.20 units per spin as I do at the moment in real play.
Example:
0.20* 500k = +100000 units
There are even more ways to use the labby to keep the bets low and so on.
We can also use 15 zero's and a one.
Or even 65 zero's and a one as Belgian said.
Ofcourse the wins will be much smaller.
Just some thoughts..
:thumbsup:
Fripper, Aleks06, Bayes,
Keep up the good work. This is very interesting.
I'm wondering if any of you have ever looked at method of playing the labby I've read at a few locations where they start out with like 10 imaginary 1's and each is the unit you will win when you have completed that labby. This gives us 10 labbies at once and we can pick and choose which numbers to combine for each bet. This also helps us keep the bets low.
George
Session 6
215 spins
highest bet : 38
lowest point : -127
profit : +19
Since I read belgian latest post I use sometimes more "zero's" to stretch the labby while a bad run, this way I m more able to control the bets and keep them low.
Hi GLC, I m not sure that I have completely understood your concept. Could you give an example. please.
Here's an example. I will use only 4 labbies instead of 10 (or more). I usually start with 2 1's.
11
11
11
11
These are the beginning of my 4 labbies.
1st bet is for 2 units and is lost. Now:
112
11
11
11
Next bet is for 2 units and is lost.
112
112
11
11
Next bet is for 2 units and is won.
12
12
11
11
As you can see, I can remove units where ever I want.
Next bet is for 2 units and is lost
12
12
112
11
Next bet is for 2 units and is won.
12
12
12
1
Next bet is for 3 units and is won.
12
12
1
Next bet is for 2 units and is lost.
12
12
13
Next bet could be for 2,3 or 5 units.
Let's say it is for 5 units and we win.
12
1
1
If we had the following:
12355
11233
122
123468
1122344
etc...
We can bet 2,3,4,5,6,7,8, etc...
Let's say we bet 7 and win
12355
1123
122
123468
112234
We can remove them from where ever we want.
We can start with 10 or 20 labbies whatever we want.
Anytime we are ahead a pre-determined amount we can stop and re-start.
If our numbers get too large, we can break them down into more lines of smaller numbers etc...
This may be very near to what you guys are doing with the zeros.
I'm not sure. It gets pretty complicated for an old brain.
George
Have you guys tried the Midas method ? A diff kind of labby
Quote from: GLC on Jan 18, 03:36 PM 2011
Fripper, Aleks06, Bayes,
Keep up the good work. This is very interesting.
I'm wondering if any of you have ever looked at method of playing the labby I've read at a few locations where they start out with like 10 imaginary 1's and each is the unit you will win when you have completed that labby. This gives us 10 labbies at once and we can pick and choose which numbers to combine for each bet. This also helps us keep the bets low.
George
Hi george
No, I haven't tested that.
The main thing is to keep our bets low but still be playing with the 65/135. it's the main thing.
Maybe, your way can, but I haven't looked at it yet. I'm short of time already.
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 18, 04:14 PM 2011
Session 6
215 spins
highest bet : 38
lowest point : -127
profit : +19
Since I read belgian latest post I use sometimes more "zero's" to stretch the labby while a bad run, this way I m more able to control the bets and keep them low.
Hi GLC, I m not sure that I have completely understood your concept. Could you give an example. please.
Good job once again.
But, as we have stated.
The more you use the more wins we need to come back.
But, it keeps the bets low and that's the good part.
But when we see a bad run, this may be the best way to keep the bets low, it needs more testing.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Tomla021 on Jan 18, 07:09 PM 2011
Have you guys tried the Midas method ? A diff kind of labby
Tom,
We have looked at the Midas method which is also an improvement on the original method, but not as safe as this one in my opinion.
G
Session 5 of bayes horror sessions
Did bet even
118 odd, 76 even
I played until spin 203 to end the last labby.
+3 in 54 spins, ended first labby
+5 in 78 spins, ended second labby
+10 in 117 spins, ended third labby
+13 in 138 spins, ended forth labby
+14 in 174 spins, ended fifth labby
+17 in 203 spins, ended sixth labby
Highest bet : 33 units
Lowest point : -62 units
Both excel file and RX file attached.
:thumbsup:
thanks guys,,
i played around with midas and you can also split labbies etc--didnt really care for it but.....
Just to keep you guys motivated.
I have played 21 sessions for real at betvoyager.
Started with a bankroll of 1000 units.
Don't know the highest bet, but it isn't over 100 units.
A total profit of +679 units in 3518 spins.
That is 679/3518 ~ 0,193 units/spin.
In those 3518 spins, the no-bets is also counted so the average will be a lot higher if we just count the spins that we bet.
:thumbsup:
Nice Fripper I think I'm going to start playing for real soon.
At the moment I can't clear the 7th session (230+spins around -700). This is the hardest session I have ever played.
But I will re-do it setting my bet limit higher
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 20, 02:01 PM 2011
Nice Fripper I think I'm going to start playing for real soon.
At the moment I can't clear the 7th session (230+spins around -700). This is the hardest session I have ever played.
But I will re-do it setting my bet limit higher
Thanks mate
Ok, I will continue with the sessions one by one. I had some problems at first with session nr 3 but after some new rules I got it very good.
So, do you use more zero's longer in a session when there are no zero's left to stretch the labby even more?
If so, do you have some rules of when you do it?
Cheers
I stretch my labby when the figures reach approximately 25. I'm still looking for the best ratio duration of the run / size of bets.
For the session #7 my labby's are getting too long because of the zero's so It's endless. I will re-set to 50 max for the figures I think ( so max bet : 100 units )
I finally cleared it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the hell session.
241 spins
profit : 7 units
lowest point : -872
highest bet : 84 units
:P :sad2: :sad2: :sad2:
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 21, 03:45 AM 2011
I stretch my labby when the figures reach approximately 25. I'm still looking for the best ratio duration of the run / size of bets.
For the session #7 my labby's are getting too long because of the zero's so It's endless. I will re-set to 50 max for the figures I think ( so max bet : 100 units )
Ok. I'm not sure about this, because when we have a hard time we will need to keep the figures as low as possible and end the labby as soon as possible.
But as you say, after the figures have reached 50 for the figures it may be a good point.
The winning streak must come, the question is how long we can go on.
Session 6 of bayes horror sessions.
Did bet even.
110 odd, 73 even
I played until 192 spins to end the seventh labby.
+3 in 33 spins, ended first labby
+4 in 55 spins, ended second labby
+5 in 88 spins, ended third labby
+7 in 111 spins, ended forth labby
+9 in 130 spins, ended fifth labby
+13 in 178 spins, ended sixth labby
+14 in 192 spins, ended seventh labby
Highest bet 46 units
Lowest point -114 units.
Both excel file and RX file attached :thumbsup:
Quote from: Fripper on Jan 21, 09:12 AM 2011
Ok. I'm not sure about this, because when we have a hard time we will need to keep the figures as low as possible and end the labby as soon as possible.
But as you say, after the figures have reached 50 for the figures it may be a good point.
The winning streak must come, the question is how long we can go on.
In my opinion,
the "aggressive way" will require a bigger bankroll (1500-2000 units) to compensate the amount of the bets and the drawdown.
On the other hand, If you play the "safe way" with more zero's you will extend the duration of the session but a smaller bankroll (1000units) would be fine.
so It's our decision.
How are you playing it at the moment Fripper ? Do you use more zero's during bad run ?
Yes the more aggressive the more bankroll is needed. We have to find the balance between them, Belgian said something about this to..
I think I will start to test with extending with more zero's during the bad runs as you do. I like it safer :)
Until now I have only played "the aggressive way".
I don't remember If you already have mentioned this in this thread :
From Belgian:
"If one likes he can also use trio's instead of pairs to get 8:1 odds to reduce even more the risks of long losing streaks. Then you can choose for example to divide the losing bets in 4 figures to add to the Labby. The possibilities are endless. You have a method with lots of room for flexibility for the parameters:
- betselection in way's of pairs or trio's to "reduce" the odds
- flexibility of number of imaginary zero's (stretching the Labby)
- flexibility of dividing number of figures to add to the Labby"
What does he mean by "use trio's instead of pairs to get 8:1 odds"
Like this : RRR RRR RRR RRR ... ?
No, I don't think that I have mentioned it.
Belgian said that he used 87/13 instead of 75/25 (pairs).
I don't know how he play..
Do you think he uses a mini marty with 3 steps?
Like 1,2,4.
And then maybe he deletes 3 zero's if he loses a "trio". No idea really..
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 21, 06:17 AM 2011
I finally cleared it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the hell session.
241 spins
profit : 7 units
lowest point : -872
highest bet : 84 units
:P :sad2: :sad2: :sad2:
Okay guys,
I've been testing session 7 against some of the other betting systems to see if any of them can handle this monster.
First I tested my modified pluscoup where I don't go up until I win 2 times. Then I stay at that level until I win 2 then go up 1 unit.
I was betting 34 units when I topped -1000 units about 190 spins into the sequence.
Next I tried Mr. Squire's method where we start betting 1 unit and when we lose at 1 unit we go to 2 units to recover and we stay at 2 units until we recover the 1 then we go to 3 units to recover the 2's and we stay at 3 units until we recover all the 2's, then we go to 4 units etc.
This one was much better. Only got up to betting 8 units and ended the session at -92 units. I never was plus after about the 1st few spins.
Next I tried this same method, but trying to recover 1.5 loses with each win. I was betting 65 units per bet and was down 2000 + units when I gave up.
I then tried Project 202 and started at 5 units and went up after every 40 spins. First to 6 then 7,8,10 and 13. Ended up at -319.
Next I tried simple D'Alembert +1, -1. Quit a little over half way betting 47 units on the last hand where I went over 1000 units down.
Observations: I was only 11 bets away from total recovery using Squire's bet method. The best thing about it was that I was only up to starting to recover my 8 unit losses with 9 unit bets when I ran out of numbers. This method seems to be very conservative and yet has a good recovery rate.
It obviously isn't as effective on this series as the labby using multiple zeros, but not too far behind it.
One thing I would like to say, is picking 1 even chance to bet on is always very dangerous. In testing bazillions of spins, I have noticed that bet follow-the-last is much safer. (switch to chops after losing to 3 chops and then as soon as you get 2 colors in a row switch back to follow-the-last. The sequence that also hurts is RRBRRBRRB etc... But, I have never had this much difference between wins vs losses as this sequence when betting Even vs Odd.
When betting FTL you don't win as many as Odd won over Even in this series, but you also don't lose as many as if you were betting Even. Betting Even, you lose 136 times plus 9 zeros=145 times vs winning 96 times. That's 49 more losses than wins. If you had been betting FTL, you would have had 125 losses vs 116 wins. 9 more losses than wins. This can be handled easily by any conservative bet method.
I know that nobody's suggesting that just picking one side or the other is a good way to play even chances, but just in case anyone thinks it doesn't matter. I think it does.
Food for thought,
George
Nice to see that you have done some testing George!
Session 7 seems to be very hard, after both yours and aleks06's tests.
I will test it soon and look what I can do about it. It will be a nice challenge.
So, do you think that if we play the last decision it will be better than betting a EC?
I don't know the answer to this, but if it's true we would be making a hell lot of money right now, so it's not that likely.
The whole main purpose with the method is that atleast 65 of one colour (or any even chance) will show in 200 spins.
But maybe I missunderstood you George, if so I'm sorry. It's late :)
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 21, 06:17 AM 2011
I finally cleared it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the hell session.
241 spins
profit : 7 units
lowest point : -872
highest bet : 84 units
:P :sad2: :sad2: :sad2:
I cleared it in 213 spins with a profit of 26 units.
Highest bet was 145 units.
Lowest point -567 units.
I used the aggressive way. I will test it again with the strategy to strech the labby with more zero's.
That will get my bets lower but you needed more bankroll.
I think, if we have enough bankroll, we should play with more zero's in the bad runs to keep the bets low, that way we can be under the table limits. :)
Fripper,
I am saying that from my experience, almost any even chance bet selection method that catches streaks even if some of those streaks are a chop pattern or a doublet pattern, seems to do better keeping the wins and losses closer together.
I know that there are a lot of losses with chops when we are playing FTL, but in my experience, we don't get nearly such large gaps between wins and losses as we do when we just pick the wrong color to bet on and it's tanking big time. When playing for streaks, you will catch a lot of those losses because you can switch from one color to the other depending on which is streaking.
I have checked this method against many sessions from weisbaden of 300-350 spins and FTL tends to fall between the wins on one color and the losses on the other. Granted, if you pick the color thats hitting most, you love it, but if not you will hate it as in session 7 above.
It doesn't seem that it would be true and maybe in the long run FTL will have a win loss record similar to session 7. I know that if you play FTL on session 7 you will win easily and finish your labbies multiple times.
Just my opinion,
George
Well guys, I have good news and bad news. Let's start with the bad one.
I've just finished the session 8.
First I played It the "safe way" stretching the labby with more zero's to keep the bets low. It crashed.
I got this :
352 spins
ending session at : -1103
lowest point : -1223
highest bet : 86 units
If someone wants to continue this...
The weird thing is that between cell #127 -> #237 I have 78/122 It's better than the worst expectation which is 65/135. So It should end with a +1 unit profit minimum. I'm doing or understanding something wrong I guess. Fripper please help me :P
The good news is that I did the session again without the zero's. Here are the results :
261 spins
21 units profit
lowest point : -691
biggest bet : 138
It's better ;) ;) ;)
Nice one with session 7, I don't know why but the aggressive way is more successful
I can't wait to see how you will handle session 8 Fripper. ??? :)
I like your ideas GLC especially about the bet selection. "Follow the last" could be better. It needs some testing. I have to finish the 3 last sessions first :D
:thumbsup:
Session 9
222 spins
+15 units
lowest point : -204
highest bet : 84
:thumbsup:
Hi aleks06
I will soon post up session 7 how I played it and after that begin with session 8.
As you noticed, the aggressive way seems to be better. Maybe it is because of we need less wins to end the labby when bets get high.
We do get higher bets but maybe it's better in the end, who knows.
Cheers
Session 7 of bayes horror sessions.
Did bet even.
125 odd, 80 even.
+6 units in 32 spins, ended first labby
+7 units in 81 spins, ended second labby
+16 units in 161 spins, ended third labby
+26 units in 213 spins, ended forth labby
Highest bet 145 units
Lowest point -567 units
Both rx file and excel file attached. :thumbsup:
We are getting better results with the aggressive way
:thumbsup:
Note: When you have these difficult sessions you can transfer a little more of the figures to another even chance when you have lost 2 series of 4.
Like if you have a total of 48 on high/low.
You can transfer 28 units to your preferable EC instead of the usual 24 (half).
Playing this way will hopefully be easier as you need less wins on the hardest EC to end the labby.
This is what I have been doing..
Session 8 of bayes horror sessions.
Did bet high.
114 low, 66 high
+2 in 23 spins, ended first labby
+5 in 44 spins, ended second labby
+10 in 73 spins, ended third labby
+11 in 124 spins, ended forth labby
+12 in 187 spins, ended fifth labby
Highest bet 148 units
Lowest point -482 units.
RX file and excel file attached. :thumbsup:
Only -482 :o You got lucky choosing the EC's :P ??
Session 10
+19 profit
lowest : -284
highest bet : 80
196 spins
Only 1 session left :D
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 22, 12:51 PM 2011
Only -482 :o You got lucky choosing the EC's :P ??
I don't know. I always choose the most choppy one but if it hasn't hit in the last 3 or 4 spins I wait or choose another EC.
Session 9 of Bayes horror sessions.
Did bet high.
118 low, 78 high.
+1 in 28 spins, ended first labby
+6 in 74 spins, ended second labby
+9 in 96 spins, ended third labby
+13 in 142 spins, ended forth labby
+17 in 205 spins, ended fifth labby
Highest bet 26 units.
Lowest point -29 units.
Easy session :)
RX file and excel file attached :thumbsup:
Hej Fripper ;)
Well done with session 9.
Session 11 is a tough one.
When do you divide the bets into 3 or even 4 figures ?
I think I will start playing for real in the next days with a 1500 units BR (150€ / 0,10€ chips )
BR target 1500€
I will post my results.
Session 10 of Bayes horror sessions.
Did bet high.
117 low, 73 high.
+1 in 26 spins, ended first labby
+2 in 71 spins, ended second labby
+3 in 103 spins, ended third labby
+6 in 165 spins, ended forth labby
+10 in 197 spins
Highest bet 88 units
Lowest point -126 units
Both RX and excel file attached. :thumbsup:
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 23, 03:41 PM 2011
Hej Fripper ;)
Well done with session 9.
Session 11 is a tough one.
When do you divide the bets into 3 or even 4 figures ?
I think I will start playing for real in the next days with a 1500 units BR (150€ / 0,10€ chips )
BR target 1500€
I will post my results.
Thanks, Ok I will do session 11 maybe tomorrow. Will see what I get.
If the bets I have divided gets more than 18 units, I divide into 3 figures instead.
Example:
Lose 14 and 28. 42 units /2 = 21 units
In that case I divide 42/3 and get 14,14,14 instead.
Nice to hear and I wish you good luck!
I'm starting very low as I don't have a large bankroll to start with.
I have taken 35$ upto 65$ only using 0.05$ bets.
Where shall you play?
Can we get someone to code this in RX? I would love to run this through daily Wiesbaden spins.
Ok thanks more than 18 units. Maybe betvoyager
Why do you want to run this through daily wiesbaden spins NOvocane?
Some guys from x looked into more than 70 millions spins and the worst session was 68/132. This system can handle even worse (65/135). We tested it with bayes horror sessions and so far It didn't crash.
Aleks - Because I want to see for myself. I've seen people claim some amazing things before and a lot of the time they have turned out to be false. Not saying that these guys are lying as I would love for this system to work but before I start investing time into it I would like to verify it for myself.
I also have a question regarding the progression. The Labby states that when you loose you add the sum of your bet to the end. If you start the labby with 0001, the bet is one and the sum of the bet is one. so it goes 0001,00011,000111. The sum is always one because your adding the first and last numbers together. Where are you getting the progression?
Quote from: N0vocane on Jan 24, 02:10 AM 2011
Aleks - Because I want to see for myself. I've seen people claim some amazing things before and a lot of the time they have turned out to be false. Not saying that these guys are lying as I would love for this system to work but before I start investing time into it I would like to verify it for myself.
I also have a question regarding the progression. The Labby states that when you lose you add the sum of your bet to the end. If you start the labby with 0001, the bet is one and the sum of the bet is one. so it goes 0001,00011,000111. The sum is always one because your adding the first and last numbers together. Where are you getting the progression?
It would be amazing to code this in RX. I'm afraid that it is very hard but who knows, maybe we have one in here that can do it.
We play in pairs (2 bets) to keep the losing streaks short.
We also use a mini-martingle.
If you lose the first bet in a pair, double the next.
So in this case:
(0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1)
First bet is 1+0 = 1 unit
Ok, we lose so double. 1*2 = 2 units
We lose again, we have lose 1+2= 3 units
New labby is:
(0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,2)
Bet is: 2+0 = 2 units
Lose, so double again. 2*2 = 4 units
We lose again. we have lost 2+4 units = 6 units /2 = 3
So new labby is:
(0,0,0,0,0,1,1,2,3,3)
And so on.
Cheers
N0vocane you should read this thread reply#34
link:://rouletteforum.x/index.php?PHPSESSID=86be27f1adb373c64b354b8b01a8d0dc&topic=9.msg222#new (link:://rouletteforum.x/index.php?PHPSESSID=86be27f1adb373c64b354b8b01a8d0dc&topic=9.msg222#new)
Someone seems to have made a RX code.
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 24, 02:55 AM 2011
N0vocane you should read this thread reply#34
link:://rouletteforum.x/index.php?PHPSESSID=86be27f1adb373c64b354b8b01a8d0dc&topic=9.msg222#new (link:://rouletteforum.x/index.php?PHPSESSID=86be27f1adb373c64b354b8b01a8d0dc&topic=9.msg222#new)
Someone seems to have made a RX code.
Yes, it is for the Johnsson progression.
He said he would do it for Belgians way of play to.
Session 11
+15 profit
lowest point : -447
Highest bet : 84
236 spins
:thumbsup:
We cleared the 11 bayes horror sessions 8) 8) 8) !!!
Can anyone provide worse ? ;D
Fellas,
To me this is very exciting. But, I'm trying to reconcile how the zeros make a difference. It seems to me that all the zeros do is cause you to play like D'Alembert except that you play a 2 step marty whenever you lose.
My next question is, "Why do you skip the 2nd bet after a win?" It seems that you could continue to bet as long as you're winning and when you do lose a bet, the next bet is double the lost bet.
Is this really any different than say playing a normal labby and whenever you lose a bet and you have to bet an amount larger than you're comfortable with, you just put that number aside and any others that are too big and once you finish the labby you're working on, you can then bring out these large number losses and create another labby out of them and work thru them 1 at a time or comibine 2 or 3 into 1 labby. You can do this indefinitely until you go into a good winning streak when you should be able to clear away the excess losses.
Example: I will never bet more than 15 units.
1 Start with the unit we want to win. First bet is 1 unit. Keep betting 1 until we lose.
1 1 After 1st loss, bet sum of 1st and last numbers. Lose.
1 1 2 Bet 3 Lose
1 1 2 3 Bet 4 Lose
1 1 2 3 4 Bet 5 Win
1 2 3 Bet 4 Lose
1 2 3 4 Bet 5 Win
2 3 Bet 5 Lose
2 3 5 Bet 7 Lose
2 3 5 7 Bet 9 Win
3 5 Bet 8 Lose
3 5 8 Bet 11 Lose
3 5 8 11 Bet 14 Lose
3 5 8 11 14 Since I cannot bet more than 15 units, I set the 14 aside and bet 14 again, lose
3 5 8 11 14 Same as above bet I set 14 aside and bet 3+11=14 again. Win
5 8 Bet is 13 Win. Line is cleared except for the two 14 units bets I set aside.
I now create a new labby with the first 14 unit loss.
2 2 3 3 2 2 Bet 4 win
2 3 3 2 Bet 4 Lose
2 3 3 2 4 Bet 6 Win
3 3 2 Bet 5 win
3 Bet 3 Win
Etc...
This too can become a real grind and may take a couple of hundred spins to finally clear all our losses, but that's seems to be what the zeros do.
Not trying to undermine your system, I just don't understand it well enough to see that it's that much better than the above. :(
I will try to clear horror session #7 with the above method and see if it can be done within a reasonable number of spins if ever. I will change my maximum bet level to more than 15, but I don't know how much more yet. Don't have time to do it immediately, but I will do it as soon as possible.
Wish me luck, (or maybe not?) ???
George
Hey Dear Marcus,
I could not be more impressed by any other EC methods but still fail to understand it fully. I am providing here a small session of 185 spins taken from live slingshot roulette of smart live casino. Please play this here in simple language and not in excel sheet. Think you are taking a tutorial of your roulette technique to a layman.
[attachimg=#]
Maybe after understanding the complete technique I could suggest some valuable tweaks to make it lesser risky and quickwinner.
Can I assume that 31 was the last number to show and 19 was the oldest?
AD
I'm happy to say that I couldn't wait so I gave Session 7 a go because I realized that it doesn't take that long to test it.
Failed big time. Had to quit when I reach -1000 units.
Tried it with a couple of max bets and both ways tanked.
I'm getting backed into a corner and am just going to have to start testing this thing with you guys so I can see if I really understand it.
I'm a little confused when you say that if you lose 2 in a row, you add 2 zeros along with the 2 numbers that you lost.
Every time I read through the topic again I understand a little better.
I have to say that even though it can take 2 or 3 hundred spins to recover from a bad stretch, the fact that it seems to recover within a set boundary is encouraging.
If we reach a point where we can definitely say that this should win at least 1 unit every time you sit down to play even if it takes 4 or 5 hours to finally do it and the maximum bankroll you need is 1500 units. That means we're in like Flint. These killer sessions should only come up once every 50 to 100 sessions and the other session should be winning 20 - 50 units, on a good day maybe more.
The thing that gets my pulse racing is that this can be played on Roulette, baccarat and the pass/don't pass line in craps. That gives us some options when we go to casino.
Waiting for one of the experts to answer my questions,
Thanks,
George
yes, Adulay. 31 is latest.
Quote from: albalaha on Jan 24, 10:29 PM 2011
Hey Dear Marcus,
I could not be more impressed by any other EC methods but still fail to understand it fully. I am providing here a small session of 185 spins taken from live slingshot roulette of smart live casino. Please play this here in simple language and not in excel sheet. Think you are taking a tutorial of your roulette technique to a layman.
[attachimg=#]
Maybe after understanding the complete technique I could suggest some valuable tweaks to make it lesser risky and quickwinner.
It's hard to understand, I know, I've been there.
Maybe, we aren't playing the way Belgian plays it either, but for now it works great.
I can run through your spins but the easiest to demonstrate would be in a excel file so I can use lines and so on, much easier.
Will see when I have the time.
@GLC
Never stop coming with ideas, we may improve this baby even more and you never know what will improve it.
Hi albalaha, Hi Glc
I will try to make a little tutorial here for you & others. I hope It will help. Please excuse me for my very poor English.
First of all, choose your favorite EC. Let's say we bet on RED.
we will play this decision in pairs like this :
R
R
R
R
R
R
...etc
If we win the first bet we don't bet the next spin
R bet -> win
R no bet
R bet -> lose
R bet -> win
R bet -> win
R no bet
When you lose the first bet you use a marty on the second bet.
R bet 1 lose
R bet 2 win
when you win your first bet or second bet you delete the first and last number of your labby.
if you lose both bets you add the sum of the bets to your labby that you can divide into 2 figures, 3 or 4 as you like
example :
R bet 15 lose
R bet 30 lose
15 + 30 = 45 so it can be : 22,23 or 15,15,15
when you lose 4 decisions in a row you stop playing
R lose
R lose
R lose
R lose
don't bet...you wait the serie breaks.
when you lose 2 series of 4 you divide the sum of the labby into 2. and then you play another even chance like even/odd or high/low.
about the labby now, we start playing with 9 imaginary zero's and a "1". of course you can play with more zero's. the aggressive way with the 9 zero's is doing very well at the moment.
example :
bet red
labby is : 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
bet 1 LOSE
bet 2 win
net : + 1 end of labby. restart. every +1 is like a new session.
labby is : 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
bet 1 lose
bet 2 lose
net : -2
your labby is now 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,2 you replace 2 zero's by sum of the bets
bet 2 win
net : 0
your labby is now 0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1 delete the first and the last.
no bet
bet 1 win
net : +1 restart when you are even or at +1
no bet
the labby is now 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
always end the labby.
When the bets are too high you can divide the bets into 3 or even 4 figures. You also can stretch the labby with more zero's.
Another important thing you must spread the sum of the bets on the figures to keep the bets as low as possible.
let's say your labby is :
4,5,5,5,5=24
your next bet is
4+5 = 9 you lose
so your bet is 18 you lose
the sum is : 27
your labby could be 4,5,5,5,5,13,14=51
or
7,7,7,7,7,8,8=51
which is better.
Now I will show you how I play with your small session from smartlive in the next post.
We bet black
BET NET LABBY
19R 1 -1 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
3R 2 -3 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,2
8B 2 -1 0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
25R
11B 1 0 RESET LABBY 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
9R
30R 1 -1
2B 2 +1 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
34R 1 0
12R 2 -2 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,2
24B 2 0 0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
36R
19R 1 -1
14R 2 -3 0,0,0,0,1,1,1,2
1R 2 -5 1 serie of 4 0,0,0,1,1,1,2,2
15B
7R 2 -7
16R 4 -11 0,1,1,1,2,2,3,3
32R 3 -14
7R 6 -20 2 series of 4 1,1,1,2,2,3,3,4,5=22
divide the labby 22/2=11 -> 2,3,3,3 and 2,3,3,3 we bet on red and HIGH
21R 5High -15 3,3
25R
35B 6High -9 end of labby
28B 5 Black -4 3,3
31B
9R 6B -10
19R 12B -22 3,3,9,9=24-> 6,6,6,6=24
1R 12 -34
29B 24 -10 6,6=12
12R 12 -22
29B 24 +2 end of labby
12R
29B 1 +3 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
0
16R 1 +2
11B 2 +4
etc...
I hope you get It now.
As Fripper said i'm sure that we can improve this system make it safer and/or more profitable. This is a very flexible method.
I've just tested something on Session 7.
I bet in "trio's" like this :
"RRR" "RRR" "RRR"....
if the first bet win don't play for the next 2 spins...
the results are impressive... :o :o :o :o :o
217 spins
+31 profit
lowest point : -83 :LoL: :LoL: :LoL:
highest bet : 64 :D :D :D
session 7 too easy.
my dear fripper please have a look on this.
Well done Fripper and Aleks06,
It's great what you have been able to do with these difficult sequences.
I've read all the posts ( here and in Roulette30) and think I know how you are working this. at least I did until Aleks06's tutorial. I can't work out how you're playing it after the labby is divided.
You change from betting black to red and also bring in high for the second labby. I see how the labby on high is ended but the sequence of betting on red I can't work out.
Please explain again if you have time.
Robert
sorry I said we bet on RED after diving the labby but it's BLACK of course. I made a mistake. thanks for noticing it. You never change. I don't think I can modify it :(
Another try betting in "trio's" with session 8.
225 spins
+30 units profit
lowest point : -323
highest bet : 184
Hi aleks06.
Very well done in explaining it. :thumbsup:
About betting "trio's".
I also tested instead of betting the usual with pairs I tested with trio's in session 11.
I got very high bets in the end. The first 150+ spins was no problem, but after that it went hard.
Check it out if you have time.
Keep ideas coming :)
Thanks but I still can't work the numbers as you have.
I take it that although the labby is split you reset once in profit even if one labby hasn't finished.
I'll carry on working at it. The alternative is to accept I'm an idiot. ???
Robert
Quote from: trebor on Jan 25, 10:32 AM 2011
Thanks but I still can't work the numbers as you have.
I take it that although the labby is split you reset once in profit even if one labby hasn't finished.
I'll carry on working at it. The alternative is to accept I'm an unintelligent. ???
Robert
The "high" labby ended after just 2 wins. As you can see.
The "black" labby waited until the serie of reds ended, and then started betting Black. Started after black 35.
Maybe that helps.
Egg on face time :-[
Clean forgot about waiting for the red run to end. Stupid really since in all my other working through examples I was doing it that way.
Robert
The last post at roulette 30 talks about the midas method being extremely similar to this one, possibly even better. Is this true? What are the differences?
on midas you set up a line like 15, 10, 10, 10 to win 45,,,,, you bet first number if it hits you cross it off and bet the two outside numbers, then 3 numbers till you lose... if you lose you place the number lost on the end and continue betting with the first number on the line.......you can also cut figures in half or put in a new line etc
Here's what I know about The Midas betting method. I have tested it extensively and even though it is safer than the regular labby, it can also get into a lot of trouble since it's dependent on double and triple hits. WLWLWLWLLWLLLWLWLWLLWL This type sequence is instant death since we bet the number furthest left until we win, then we bet the 2 ends added together.
Nevertheless, I decided to test Horror Session #7 with the Midas method. I made an adjustment since we are trying to limit losses on really negative runs, I started with twenty 1's: 11111111111111111111.
First bet is 1 and keep betting 1 until a win. Then we bet 2 as long as we win. As soon as we lose, we go back to betting 1.
Here's a summary of session #7. Lost -44 units. Highest bet was 8 units. I didn't keep accurate count, but my drawdown was less than 50 units. About half the bets were 1 unit, so not too much more than a flat bet. Had I flat bet I would have lost -49.
Doesn't look like Midas is good enough to keep up with this multiple zero labby either.
It does look like the Midas could come in a close 2nd though. It would probably win all but the worst of runs. A good question would be, "Does it win enough on the good runs to make up for the occasional small loss?" For those who find the multiple zero labby confusing, you might look at this way of playing the Midas method. And with a maximum bet of 8 units vs bets in the MZL of over a hundred units at times..Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ???
Just adding more information to the puzzle.
George
Still, we're looking for a bet method that can withstand the worst session we can get.
Quote from: Fripper on Jan 25, 10:11 AM 2011
Hi aleks06.
Very well done in explaining it. :thumbsup:
About betting "trio's".
I also tested instead of betting the usual with pairs I tested with trio's in session 11.
I got very high bets in the end. The first 150+ spins was no problem, but after that it went hard.
Check it out if you have time.
Keep ideas coming :)
thanks Fripper I had a good teacher lol :thumbsup:
I did session 11 betting in trio's we have better results with pairs on this one.
How are you doing on betvoyager ? still winning :) ?
Ok, you got the same. It would be nice to know how Belgian plays with "trio's" but he hasn't answered my mail to him yet.
Yes I'm still winning lol.
But, I have to say, there have been many hard sessions. Alot more than when you play at for example RX.
I have had some really difficult sessions which is nearly the same as some of the hard ones we have tested here.
And all this is in about 7000 spins at betvoyager so I don't know.
But, be careful.
I would recommend a bankroll of atleast 1500 units. 2000 would be very nice.
I think I will continue to play with a 2000 unit bank, because of what I have faced so far..
Cheers
I have been thinking some and we have to use logic when we play.
I previously said that when we split the figures into another EC, we could put some more on the new EC.
I have changed my mind on that.
Our logic tells us that after we have had a long losing streak (or just a hard time) there will be more wins than losses. This is a fact, but as you know we don't know when it will happen.
We can only assume that after long losing streaks there will be winning streaks and so on.
So, the old EC we was betting will get better in time, we just don't know when, but we can expect it.
After the real sessions I have seen that bets can be very large because of we choose the wrong EC etc..
How do we know if the EC we choose won't go on a long losing streak? We don't.
I have been testing like this now a little:
I don't always switch to another EC when I have seen 2 series of 4, if the bets are still low I continue to bet. Maybe until 3 series or 4 series of 4. It depends on the size of the bets at that time.
When I transfer half of the figures to another EC I just let them be there. I don't bet on them.
I continue with my half stack an clear it, after that I take the other half and continue to bet on my usual EC.
So, never switch EC.
The logic is in betting only one EC. Agree?
Some thought about this?
Cheers
Hi Fripper I like your idea but we would need more time to reach the +1 profit.
what is the size of your bets when you decide to split the figures into another sequence?
actually I've never liked choosing another EC because of this
Quote from: Fripper on Jan 27, 09:40 AM 2011
How do we know if the EC we choose won't go on a long losing streak? We don't.
I will do some tests on session 7,8 & 11
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 27, 09:47 AM 2011
Hi Fripper I like your idea but we would need more time to reach the +1 profit.
what is the size of your bets when you decide to split the figures into another sequence?
actually I've never liked choosing another EC because of this
I will do some tests on session 7,8 & 11
Yes, more time may be needed but it will be safer and keep the bets lower.
For me, that's ok.
I haven't decided yet, testing is needed on that one.
Ok, I will also test some of the sessions again.
Guys,
I was thinking about how to keep bets smaller and I thought about setting a maximum bet size on the 1st e.c. If we lose a bet and the amount lost is over our max bet size, we immediately move it over to a second e.c.. Maybe we have to say 12 units is our max on first e.c. and when we lose a 12 or more unit bet, we break it down into 1,1,2,2,3,3, and maybe even add some zero's.
If we have another 12 or more loss, we move it to the 3rd e.c.
As we are working through our labbies, if one of them is doing well we can transfer losses from the others over to it so that they all gradually move up together.
As I write, I'm thinking maybe that's not a bad way to play. Start with a labby on each e.c. and move losses around so that one that's losing heavily can have it's load carried by the other two.
Anytime we reach a new high, we reset everything to 9 zeros and a 1 on each e.c.
Seems like this would keep our bets as low as we can hope for and for them to get too high all three labbies would have to be losing badly.
Just a thought.
LOL,
George
i like playing the 3 e/c's at one time---most of the time if ones struggling the other 2 help keep the whole bankroll closer to even
Quote from: Tomla021 on Jan 27, 10:51 AM 2011
I like playing the 3 e/c's at one time---most of the time if ones struggling the other 2 help keep the whole bankroll closer to even
Yes, it is very good most of the times.
But, I have suffered some very hard sessions were two of the EC's is against you and even sometimes 3 EC's against you. Then it is that fun anymore.
Therefore my thinking.
Well I tested the 11th session it doesn't look good.
I got this the first time :
Session 11
+15 profit
lowest point : -447
Highest bet : 84
236 spins
and now
202 spins
-1114
highest bet : 80
It seems endless...
maybe my strategy sucks or I'm doing something wrong.
Yeah I noticed that to in my testing.
Well, back to the old one for the moment.
We should be able to get it better tho.
:thumbsup:
This may be way off base, but what if we didn't double the second bet after a loss. Rather, just bet the same amount with the idea of breaking even. Instead of 1 - 2 or 3 - 6 or 4 - 8, just 1 - 1 or 3 - 3 or 4 - 4. If we lose both bets, we only have 2/3 to recover from the way we are doing it now. It might make it too much of a grind or a session may last so long we die before we end it. (not we but you guys , sorry, I'm a little tied up at the time and can't help with the testing. Thanks for including us in your hard work.)
Hey fripper what do u mean play 3 even chances at the same time????
cheers
for instance you play Red and High and Even with 3 different labby's.
Quote from: xDannyboi23x on Jan 28, 10:17 AM 2011
Hey fripper what do you mean play 3 even chances at the same time????
cheers
If you start playing on red and have had like 2 series of 4 then you can transfer half of your figures (bets) to another EC. Choose the most choppy one.
Then you can do it again if things get bad.
Right now I am testing with 15 zero's and a 1. This should keep our bets lower but the profits may be lower to.
But, if it's safer then I like it.
Just tested session 7 again with 15 zero's and a 1 instead of 9 zero's and a 1.
Below you can see the difference. The profit is a little bit smaller but the important thing is that the highest bets are almost halfed.
Session 7 before (9 zero's and a 1)
Did bet even.
125 odd, 80 even.
+6 units in 32 spins, ended first labby
+7 units in 81 spins, ended second labby
+16 units in 161 spins, ended third labby
+26 units in 213 spins, ended forth labby
Highest bet 145 units
Lowest point -567 units
Session 7, new (15 zero's and a 1)
Did bet even
126 odd, 82 even.
+5 in 92 spins, ended first labby
+11 in 163 spins, ended second labby
+18 in 216 spins, ended third labby
Highest bet 78 units
Lowest point -227 units
-----------------------
Tell me you like it :thumbsup:
Rx and excel file attached.
I like it.
Tell me, is session 7 about the worst you might expect since you're concentrating on it?
Robert
Quote from: trebor on Jan 29, 10:17 AM 2011
I like it.
Tell me, is session 7 about the worst you might expect since you're concentrating on it?
Robert
Yes, you can check in the thread but I think session 7,8 and 11 is the hardest ones.
It's looking more and more promising then.
Robert
It does indeed.
Hope that some of you can test it some. I will be away for 5 days so can't test until next weekend.
Have a nice week.
hey fripper. good job. you can count on me to continue the work ;)
I will test session 8 & 11
Can one of you tell me the exact rules of this labby, IE
start with 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
if win remove first zero
if lose change 1st zero to 1
1,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
bet 2 chips
Like the above please if possible, I would like to do some testing too
we don't play like this
we use 2 steps marty on every figure.
you start with : 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
first bet 1 if win your labby is still 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
if you lose you bet 2 and if you lose again your labby is : 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,2 ( replace 2 zeros by the lost )
then you bet 0+2=2
if you win : 0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1 you delete the first and the last figure.
please have a look on my excel worksheet it would help you.
I am going to throw out a thought that has been forming in my mind while testing lately.
Is it better to keep bets as low as possible and go deep into the hole and take hundreds of spins to recover.
Or, is it better to take periodic losses and reset to even and start over so that your wins add to your profits.
What's the difference between moving up and down at -100 area vs moving up and down at 0 area or moving up and down at +20 area.
This is hard to put in words. Let's try it this way. I can keep my bets very small and gradually work my way down to -100 and then back up to +10. Or I can take a 5 losses at -20 and then have a good run that gets me up to +110 with average size bets. In both cases I may have to play 200 spins to finally reach +10 or I might reach +10 in half as many bets in the latter case.
Is one way or the other better? is my question.
Does this make any sense?
George
I've just finished session 8 with new rules i.e starting with 15 zero's and a 1. therefore I also transfer some figures to others labby to keep them equal while bad run and lower the bets ( one of GLC's idea I think )
First time ( fripper's results )
Session 8 of bayes horror sessions.
Did bet high.
114 low, 66 high
+2 in 23 spins, ended first labby
+5 in 44 spins, ended second labby
+10 in 73 spins, ended third labby
+11 in 124 spins, ended forth labby
+12 in 187 spins, ended fifth labby
Highest bet 148 units
Lowest point -482 units.
My results with new rules :
238 spins
+14 profit
lowest point : -204
highest bet : 78
I could have done much better on "the lowestpoint" and "highest bet" but I wanted to finish the session quicker I was fed up.
It looks really good. :thumbsup:
200 spins, worst scenario=76 hits or less. No less than 72(-3,5 SD)
1sd for 18 numbers is 7,068 hits, average 97,27.
Hardly found a 200-spin-session where you hit more than 120 or less than 72. 115 to 75 is nice to keep as limits.
the worst scenario ever found was I think 68/132.
68 is -4 SDs, in thr edge of bad luck.
Progressions are more dangerous, try to find a way to stay alive flat betting.
Hey guys I'm back after a nice skiing vacation and more excited then ever before.
Quote from: GLC on Jan 29, 02:48 PM 2011
Is it better to keep bets as low as possible and go deep into the hole and take hundreds of spins to recover.
Hey George
It's a personal choice I think. We have not find a labby that have been longer than 100 spins in this thread, you can look at my posts but I doubt that you will find a labby that takes more than 100 spins to a new high.
So if you think that 100 spins is to much to always show a profit in 700000 spins then this isn't for you :)
Ofcourse, a bad day you maybe just win 1 unit but that should be very rare, as you understand.
I like it as safe as possible but still make good profit. I think that "15 zero's and a 1" may be the best. If you like to make more profits then you could play with "5 zero's and a 1" or whatever you like.
Quote from: superman on Jan 29, 12:08 PM 2011
Can one of you tell me the exact rules of this labby, IE
I can try to write it in the best and easiest way I can.
We have written many times in this thread but I can understand that it may still confuse some.
Aleks 06's excel files in this thread is a very good way to understand how we play it.
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 30, 03:28 PM 2011
It looks really good. :thumbsup:
Well done Aleks and thanks for continue testing it.
I agree that it looks very promising, I will play with 15 zero's and a 1 for real now instead of 9 zero's.
Played for real yet? How's it going?
hey Fripper, It's good to see you back.
I will post tomorrow the session 11 with 15 zeros. I've been occupied these days can't finish it before.
I will start playing tomorrow or after tomorrow for real I had to activate my moneybookers account.
Fripper, Thanks for your response.
Here's another thought. Can we figure out a way to begin our labby per the normal way, with no zeros. As we all know, at least 70% of the time a labby that starts with a 1 with the goal of winning 1 unit, ends within a very few bets. Then, on the ones that don't win within a given range, can we then incorporate multiple zeros and go into our extremely safe grinding mode to prevent losses?
George
I've been looking back over some of the posted sessions. By the way guys, thanks for all that hard work. I for one know that it's very time consuming to do that much testing. :thumbsup: I notice that it's not that uncommon to get to 000000000112222 and then clear it up pretty quickly or if necessary take up to 100 spins. So, what if we played a regular labby and if we got to something like 11234 or so, we could just add however many zeros we want to start playing this new method. Maybe 9 zeros so it will look like 0000000001121222 and we can clear this off without so much risk of going into really big bets. I know that anytime we get to the end of the line and are betting larger numbers, a bad run can skyrocket them no matter what we do.
It looks like we can treat the zeros as a safety brake like Lanky's 6 point divisor safety brake. Anytime our bets start getting too high, we can just add some more zeros.
@aleks06
Ok, I will look forward to your results :)
@GLC
Yes maybe we can adapt to each session. But for me I think that I will follow my rules every time, because otherwise I maybe will forget something and do errors. That may also be a personal choice. As we said earlier, there are endless of possibilities within the labby.
One thing that I think is important is:
Don't always split your figures to another EC after two series of 4, if you have many zero's left you maybe can wait until 3 or 4 series of 4.
I think this is crucial because we always want to play our chosen EC because there we have the logic in this method.
I'm inclined to agree with George. In my opinion, it's better to "make hay when the sun is shining" rather than be forever anticipating the storm. Yes, we know the storm will come eventually, but from my testing it seems that you will make more profit overall by setting yourself a maximum stake, and when things turn nasty, just keep plugging away until the storm subsides.
Here's a session of 200 spins I just played -
[attachimg=#]
This was about as bad as it gets; only 70 wins in 200 spins (a z-score of -3.86). Initially, I set myself a max stake of 20 units, then, as the wins came in, I let this increase to 60 units (this was the highest stake placed in the session). As you can see it all came good after 352 spins.
I'm in no doubt that this can be done. I know that Perkin (Belgium) succeeded in making a consistent profit over several months, but that was playing in a B & M casino, and he eventually had to give it up because his health was beginning to suffer. So realistically, you would need to play online and preferably on an RNG (for speed), alternatively get a bot to do all the work for you. ;)
P.S. I'll be uploading the "Sequence Analyzer" you see in the screenshot in a few days. Although I say so myself, it's an awesome tool for testing systems and getting stats.
Quote from: Bayes on Feb 04, 12:48 PM 2011
P.S. I'll be uploading the "Sequence Analyzer" you see in the screenshot in a few days. Although I say so myself, it's an awesome tool for testing systems and getting stats.
Looks and sounds great..thanks Bayes.
Bayes I'm interested in how you play it.
I can agree that if we can we should take as much profit as possible the most of the time and when things go bad we can adjust.
So, how do you adabt to these situations?
Please enlighten us with some ways/rules that you use.
A sample would be nice if you have time.
All improvements is very valuable to me and I think to everyone else who reads this.
What are your guys opinions about this way of play?
With that I mean using a labby.
We have already cleared all the bad sequences posted in here, and also get our bets lower.
Do you think that we are on to something or is it just gamblers fallacy?
I'm not sure what I believe anymore.
So far it seems to good to be true, but maybe I've missed something.
:thumbsup:
Fripper,
I am anything but an expert on this method although I have a special place in my heart for the labby bet method. When I first started playing roulette I stumbled across the labby and thought it was the holy grail. I used it with a simple even chance bet selection method and won over 1000 units before I hit the streak from hell. I was splitting large losses into smaller ones left and right and finally when I had give back about 500 units, I decided that I was going to have to take a loss as I was mired at the -500 unit level and just couldn't climb out because I didn't want to bet really large bets. As I looked back on that extended session, I felt like if i had been able to take out 2 or 3 really bad zones, I would have been winning pretty steady.
I tend to agree with VIP when he points out that it depends on when the bad runs hit. If you are down to the end of the labby and betting some pretty high bets and then go into another 3+ standard deviation, the bet sizes can sky-rocket.
I am hoping that we can find a way to overcome such an event because it can cause our bets to be so large we can't hang with it and if we take a loss, it can wipe out a lot of small wins.
I don't mean to be negative. I'm pulling for this system. But, I have had the same thing happen when I would start with 10 labbys of 11111. I could add losses on one labby to the labbies with the smallest bet sizes as much as I wanted but toward the end when down to only a couple of labbies left to clear if I had another bad S.D., I would find myself in the hole more than I had started out to win which was 50 units. Not every time, but often enough to make it not profitable.
Good Luck,
George
VIP,
Way back at the beginning of this topic you posted that you had come up with a method of your own based on this idea and was very pleased with it. I wanted to ask you then if you would share your method with us, but got side-tracked and forgot to. Now I remember and am asking if you would mind sharing with us if it's still holding up for you?
Thanks,
George
its like midas in a way? if you have to go 200-400 spins to make a buck?
Quote from: Tomla021 on Feb 05, 01:56 AM 2011
Its like midas in a way? if you have to go 200-400 spins to make a buck?
The worst I have seen so far is +1 unit in less than 100 spins. Never seen it go beyond 100 spins.
Fripper I have a question for you :)
I was wondering what do you think is the best when you split the labby after 2 series of 4.
Do you split the numbers of figures ? like 15,15,15,15 -> new labby is 15,15
or do you think It's better to keep the same numbers of figure like 8,8,8,8 -> 4,4,4,4
What do you think about extend both labby's after this and/or add more zero's ?
I'm just a little bit confused at the moment I'm still looking for the best ratio labby's length / size of bets because sometimes it's better when the labby is not too long. it becomes endless at times...
so do you have a defined plan for this very important part ?
Quote from: Fripper on Feb 04, 03:41 PM 2011
So, how do you adabt to these situations?
Please enlighten us with some ways/rules that you use.
A sample would be nice if you have time.
All improvements is very valuable to me and I think to everyone else who reads this.
What are your guys opinions about this way of play?
With that I mean using a labby.
We have already cleared all the bad sequences posted in here, and also get our bets lower.
Do you think that we are on to something or is it just gamblers fallacy?
I'm not sure what I believe anymore.
So far it seems to good to be true, but maybe I've missed something.
Fripper, I don't have time to give you a detailed example right now, but basically I'm using the Labby Calc. to "split" bets (which can significantly reduce stakes) and also I add zeros when the stakes get too high. The advantage of the labby is that you cancel 2 losses with each win, but you can't maintain this ratio in bad losing runs, so when things turn bad you have to settle for only cancelling 3 losses for 2 wins, or maybe even flat betting for a while. To start off with a string of zeros seems to me wasteful and inefficient. Most of the time, results are choppy, and a "standard" labby takes full advantage of this, but if you start with 0000000000001 then you are relying on more wins than losses to make a profit, which isn't the norm.
At the moment, the way I'm playing is more of an art than a science. I need to do some more research on the way sequences "even out". This isn't gambler's fallacy, it's a statistical phenomenon called "mean reversion (link:://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_reversion_%28finance%29)", which is something that every experienced player is aware of, the only difficulty being how to take best advantage of it. :)
I can't give a definite set of rules at the moment, but experiment with the Labby Calculator. By adding zeros and splitting, it's easy to set the stakes to whatever you feel comfortable with. For example, if the string currently demands a stake of more than 20 units, but you don't want to go higher than 20, just add a zero and then split (this means you are flat betting), or if you want to increase stakes more gradually, only add a zero every second loss, not every loss. In this way you can get a balance between a standard labby and a reverse labby, which avoids the worst disadvantages of each.
Quote from: aleks06 on Feb 05, 04:34 AM 2011
Fripper I have a question for you :)
I was wondering what do you think is the best when you split the labby after 2 series of 4.
I don't always split the labby after 2 series of 4. Example when you have like 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,2,3,3,4,5. If I have had 2 series of 4 at that point I don't split. Sometimes I wait until 4 series of 4 or so, it depends.
Quote from: aleks06 on Feb 05, 04:34 AM 2011
Do you split the numbers of figures ? like 15,15,15,15 -> new labby is 15,15
or do you think It's better to keep the same numbers of figure like 8,8,8,8 -> 4,4,4,4
I think that most of the times I keep the same numbers of figures, like your last example. But that's also a choice you have to make and if you feel comfortable with the bets.
Quote from: aleks06 on Feb 05, 04:34 AM 2011
What do you think about extend both labby's after this and/or add more zero's ?
I haven't tested with that but I know you have done it before. I have been doing very well without it but maybe I'm wrong.
Quote from: aleks06 on Feb 05, 04:34 AM 2011
I'm just a little bit confused at the moment I'm still looking for the best ratio labby's length / size of bets because sometimes it's better when the labby is not too long. it becomes endless at times...
so do you have a defined plan for this very important part ?
Yes, this is an important part and I'm afraid that I can't give you some rules set in stone. It all comes down to your personal choices I believe. You always have to feel comfortable with your bets.
So, I can't give you a defined plan..
But we can make it better together, that I'm certain of.
Ok Bayes.
I have been testing some with adding more zero's and I get very bad results at times when things are going bad, don't know how you guys manage to do it. I will keep playing with 15 zero's and a one until I find a safer or better way.
I also tested to start with like 6 ones to get more profit when things are choppy and then adapt with more zero's when it gets nasty, but it didn't work either. The bets went like a sky rocket.
Could you provide some more sessions from some other spins because the wiesbaden we have here seems to be invalid?
Maybe run these ones:
link:://rouletteforum.cc/actuals-spins/betvoyager-spins/ (link:://rouletteforum.cc/actuals-spins/betvoyager-spins/)
Or some from random.org?
It would be nice to see if there's any difference.
Would love to see a excel file or whatever and see how you guys plays it.
Have you tested some of the "horror" sessions with the way you play?
Cheers
just tested session 7 with bayes rules i.e betting every spins on the same EC adding a zero every 2 losses when the stake is over 20units.
same as fripper i got very bad results
drawdown around -1300 / highest bet around 400
Ok aleks, then it's not only me. We have to wait for Bayes to clarify this.
With 15 zero's and a one the bets is under 100 units even in these hard sessions and that's very good. I will continue to play with this but also test new ideas.
For those interested, here's a 1000 spin session. With 15 zero's and a 1.
Profit is 165 units.
That is 165/1000= 0,165 units per spin.
In my sessions for real have I never been under 0.15 units per spin, usually it is more than 0.20 units per spin.
[attachthumb=#]
Highest bet was 44 units.
Anyone can do a test like this and then we can put together our results.
:thumbsup:
Guys, not to be disrespectful of your hard work, but I ignored this thread since I do not understand easily how to play the labby(do not worry I will learn it from the previous pages).
If in 10m spins the lowest for an EC in 200 spins was 65 appearances and you have devised a way to successfuly capitalize on that, this looks like a true holy grail, so I have a question:
Has anyone lost a session yet? And what is the absolutely maximum bet that has been made in the Bayes' horror sessions? Are they the absolutely worse that can be seen? I am asking this because if I decide to learn it I would have to play it with big units(more than 10 cents or a dollar) to prove the time I spend worthwile, and therefore I must see what kind of table limits this method can adhere to.
Another thing is, hypothetically would this method survive a 200 spin sequence where in the beginning on the chosen EC there are 30 losses, then 1 win, then 30 losses, then 1 win, then 30 losses, then 1 win, then 30 losses then 1 win, and then 16 losses, then 60 wins. Anyway, you get the point, if in the beggining of the 200 spins till 3/4 to the end there are only losses with the occasional win can this be survived?
Quote from: sekuritati on Feb 07, 11:57 AM 2011
Guys, not to be disrespectful of your hard work, but I ignored this thread since I do not understand easily how to play the labby(do not worry I will learn it from the previous pages).
Well, I think your not the only one. It isn't easy to just read it and then play for real directly.
You have to read many times and also test for yourself until you have satisfied results and you feel comfortable with the bets.
Quote from: sekuritati on Feb 07, 11:57 AM 2011
If in 10m spins the lowest for an EC in 200 spins was 65 appearances and you have devised a way to successfuly capitalize on that, this looks like a true holy grail, so I have a question:
We have only tested the worst sessions in 700000 wiesbaden spins, that was provided by Bayes. It would be nice to test the worst sessions in millions of spins.
Well I think that 15 zero's and a 1 is the best so far and I have only tested session 7 that way. All the other is tested with 9 zero's and a one. There we had the highest bet around 150 units and with 15 zero's and a one we had like 80 units in one of the hardest sessions so..
Quote from: sekuritati on Feb 07, 11:57 AM 2011
Has anyone lost a session yet? And what is the absolutely maximum bet that has been made in the Bayes' horror sessions? Are they the absolutely worse that can be seen? I am asking this because if I decide to learn it I would have to play it with big units(more than 10 cents or a dollar) to prove the time I spend worthwile, and therefore I must see what kind of table limits this method can adhere to.
I don't think so, but that depends on what you mean with lost a session. In the testings we have lost session because we are indeed "testing", to find the best way to play.
I have played 40+ sessions for real and haven't lost yet.
We will have to wait to see if Bayes can find some harder sessions for us.
Ok, I would recommend a bankroll of 1000 units. 2000 units to be extra safe.
Haven't lost a session yet with 1000 units bankroll. You can see the biggest drawdowns in the thread.
Quote from: sekuritati on Feb 07, 11:57 AM 2011
Another thing is, hypothetically would this method survive a 200 spin sequence where in the beginning on the chosen EC there are 30 losses, then 1 win, then 30 losses, then 1 win, then 30 losses, then 1 win, then 30 losses then 1 win, and then 16 losses, then 60 wins. Anyway, you get the point, if in the beggining of the 200 spins till 3/4 to the end there are only losses with the occasional win can this be survived?
Yes, that would be no problems because we wait out any series longer than 4. You would have made a nice profit in the end.
But if you believe that you will get 3 wins in 100 spins then you better stop gambling right away :D
The worst case scenario is: 4 loss, 1 win, 4 loss, 1 win, (or 6 loss, 1 win, 7 loss, 1 win, 4 loss, 1 win).
I think you get the point.
Quote from: Fripper on Feb 07, 12:19 PM 2011
We will have to wait to see if Bayes can find some harder sessions for us.
I'll be uploading the sequence analyzer later today in the math reference section. This can generate an endless supply of horror sessions, enough to keep anyone happy. ;)
I too, have found that you need a bank of about 1000 units, but would recommend 1500 - 2000 just in case. I'm going to add some code to the labby calculator which will save the results, when I've done that I'll post some sessions here so that you can see the way I'm playing. In fact I might start a sort of 'blog' in the testing section where I post my daily results from BV.
Good news
We will be more than pleased I guess :P
We love the hardest ones.
Yes I play with 2000 units because I consider it very safe. Havn't lost a 1000 unit bank yet but who knows?
I look forward to see how you play it bayes and also for the sequence analyzer.
I've done my first session with real money on BV ;D
136 spins
79B
4 zéros
53R
bet on R
+7u profit
I hope to win many more sessions :lol:
I'll keep posting my results.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: aleks06 on Feb 08, 05:15 PM 2011
I've done my first session with real money on BV ;D
136 spins
79B
4 zéros
53R
bet on R
+7u profit
I hope to win many more sessions :LoL:
I'll keep posting my results.
:thumbsup:
:thumbsup: :) ;D
pretty cool stuff
Running total for real play:
+1581 units in 8257 spins
A total of 43 sessions.
That's 1581/8257 = +0,191 units/spin
:thumbsup:
very nice fripper :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
As a matter of interest Fripper, what was the highest bet placed in all those real spins
if you don't mind me asking.
Robert
Quote from: trebor on Feb 09, 03:27 PM 2011
As a matter of interest Fripper, what was the highest bet placed in all those real spins
if you don't mind me asking.
Robert
I think the highest bet is around 100 units but that was when I played with 9 zero's and a one.
Now I'm using 15 zero's and a one so the bets will be lower.
I'm not sure about it because I have not written down all the highest bets in every session, only spins and profit.
Hey fripper can you just confirm this for me please,
is this system played exactly the same as the cancellation system but with 15 0s and a 1?
cheers ,
Quote from: xDannyboi23x on Feb 10, 01:15 PM 2011
Hey fripper can you just confirm this for me please,
is this system played exactly the same as the cancellation system but with 15 0s and a 1?
cheers ,
Hi danny
I don't know about this "cancellation" system.
This system is using the "labouchere progression" as a base.
You can read about in this thread or here:
link:://:.x/2010/06/labouchere-progression-in-depth.html (link:://:.x/2010/06/labouchere-progression-in-depth.html)
Cheers
Danny,
No, it's not played exactly like a normal cancellation system.
1 main difference is that you play in 2 bet sequences and then if you lose, you add the 2 lost bets together and divide by 2 and place the 2 numbers to the right of the line.
The 2 bets per sequence is X and 2X or the 1st 2 steps in a martingale. If you win either bet, you win 1 unit, or whatever your X equals. If you lose both bets you take X+2X/2=Y. Write Y down twice at the right end of the line. Next bet will be a the sum of the two ends of the line. For quite a while the left end will be a zero.
Line = 0000000000000001
Example: Bet 1 unit and lose. Bet 2 units and lose. 1+2=3/2=2 and 1 remainder.
Line = 00000000000000112
Bet 2 and lose. Bet 4 and lose. 2+4=6/2=3.
Line = 000000000000011233. etc...
There are other small difference that I don't really understand completely.
This looks pretty good though if Fripper continues to win at the rate he's going.
0.19 units won per spin is pretty good in my books.
George
Quote from: aleks06 on Jan 25, 07:01 AM 2011
labby is : 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
bet 1 lose
bet 2 lose
your labby is now 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,2 you replace 2 zero's by sum of the bets
Question guys. Why do you replace 2 zeros by the number of bets you add to the right end of the line when you lose. I thought we only crossed off zeros when we won the bet?
BTW. I think this is still the closest thing to a guaranteed winning bet on the forum. Thanks Fripper for starting the thread and thanks 06 for staying with it too.
I'm going to start testing my 20,000 continuous spins from a live wheel in the Casino de Macao with this system. I will post my results when I have enough played to be post worthy.
Cheers,
George
Quote from: GLC on Feb 11, 04:17 PM 2011
Question guys. Why do you replace 2 zeros by the number of bets you add to the right end of the line when you lose. I thought we only crossed off zeros when we won the bet?
by the way. I think this is still the closest thing to a guaranteed winning bet on the forum. Thanks Fripper for starting the thread and thanks 06 for staying with it too.
I'm going to start testing my 20,000 continuous spins from a live wheel in the Casino de Macao with this system. I will post my results when I have enough played to be post worthy.
Cheers,
George
I have always replaced the zero's by the losing bets because Belgian spoke about it. If you only cancel zero's when you win bets you will be safer but it will take much more time to end the labby = less profit.
I don't know which is the best tho..
If you lose a "pair" you replace 2 zero's by the lost bets.
If you play in "tripple" you replace by 3 zero's and so on.
Thanks for your words George. I think that this is really good and we have done a lot of testing with some hard sessions.
Looking forward to your test results mate, also how bayes plays this baby.
I just want to give a warning to people who plays this on RNG. I have played more than 50 sessions at betvoyager and I have met some really hard sessions, therefore I'm not sure if I will continue playing there.
The thing I have noticed is that you will get a lot more losing runs than in the testing and if you split your figures to another EC after a while you will be having a hard time.
It doesn't matter which EC you choose, it will have less hits than the other. Therefore I'm warning you to split your figures to often, the software doesn't like us. And when we are on a bad run on two ECs the bankroll decreases very quickly and the bets get very high.
A live wheel would be better but much more time consuming I guess.
Cheers
As we now, often when we play we will have a pretty easy time. The ECs are choppy and so on. So to maximize the profit I have played every spin until 2 losses come.
So if you bet 1 unit and win, you bet 1 unit again directly. With this, we follow the series of wins.
If a serie of 10 reds come we will win 10 units instead of 5. That's 100% more profit.
At any time you have two losses and a labby starts you play like we have before (Betting in pairs and so on).
What do you think?
hi guys,
good idea about betting every spins until 2 losses. If you have 2 losses and the labby start if you win the first decision yon don't bet the next spin like before ?
I've already played 8 sessions 1548 spins and +212 units profit. no hard session so far.
Fripper you worry me about BV :D Maybe it's just statistic. it's normal to find hard session you have played many spins (+30 000?) perhaps you remember only the hard times ;)
Do you think it is possible to make a bot for this system it would be great for a live wheel... :thumbsup:
Quote from: aleks06 on Feb 12, 05:53 AM 2011
Hi guys,
good idea about betting every spins until 2 losses. If you have 2 losses and the labby start if you win the first decision yon don't bet the next spin like before ?
Yes, if the labby has started you play like before. Wating one spin if you win the first bet in a pair and so on..
Good results!
Yes, I'm worried. I don't like what I see so far. I have only played about 9300 spins..
A bot would be nice, ofcourse it's not easy to code it but I'm certain that it can be done.
Fripper,
I've never understood the sense in skipping a bet after a win. It will also decrease the number of spins it takes to reach a win target. I think.
I have tested session 7 with a variety of martingales. I even played it with a 3 and 4 step marty. When you lose like a 4 step 1-2-4-8 and divide it, I usually use a 3 divisor or even 4 or 5. Each step up the marty line say a 6 step marty makes it easier to win on these horror sessions. The problem is that you have to divide the 63 units lost in a 6 step marty by like 15 which gives us 15 4's and 5's. A six step marty starting at 4 goes 4-8-16-32-64-128 so to lose one of those wouldn't be so good. But I must say that combining a labby and a marty together has sparked a lot of new research for me.
Cheers,
G
I tested session 7 with a 3 step marty. I had amazing results on this session but horrific on others...
Fripper, what do you see so terrific on BV ?!?
Quote from: GLC on Feb 12, 01:09 PM 2011
Fripper,
I've never understood the sense in skipping a bet after a win. It will also decrease the number of spins it takes to reach a win target. I think.
Well, imagine if we just started a hell session and it just continues. If so, then there will be more losses than wins and therefore you skip more losing bets and also reduce the losing streaks.
It isn't often but because I like it safe, I play it that way. If you don't skip bets you will get longer into the hole faster and it will be harder to get back.
The best would be to bet every spin in winning streaks, but how we know when they happen?
Quote from: aleks06 on Feb 12, 01:14 PM 2011
I tested session 7 with a 3 step marty. I had amazing results on this session but horrific on others...
Fripper, what do you see so terrific on BV ?!?
After playing a while you will see what I mean. I can say that I have been down more than 1000 units in sessions. I have never seen that when we have tested these horror sessions..
Fripper,
Are you saying you've seen sequences where you get less than 65 wins over 200 spins? :o
My preferred bet selection is a "trend surfing" approach, which you can find here (link:://rouletteforum.cc/bet-selection/a-fun-system-for-trend-players/). I also have a stop loss of 5 consecutive losses, after which I wait for a single virtual win, then continue. If the stakes get to > 20 units, I flat bet and use the labby in "reverse" mode, ie; I add a zero and split each time the required stake is > 20 units. So far, so good. I've played 32 sessions this way and have stopped at a 50 unit gain. There have been tough sessions, but nothing too alarming yet. :)
No I'm not saying that I have seen less than 65 wins in 200 spins. I'm saying that if we have had a bad run and split the figures to another EC, then the bad runs have proceeded on both of the ECs. When that happens, there is no fun to play any more and your bankroll is in danger.
The difference can be like 40 on both of the ECs, like this:
79 reds, 119 blacks
and also at the same time
83 odd, 115 even
Now, if you played red and had a bad run and switched half of the figures to another EC, and the most choppy one was odd. If both of them continued to be bad you will have big problems.
Because of this, I'm experimenting with some new ways where I not switch EC.
Thanks for explaining how you play. Will look into it when I have the time.
Ok. Personally I never switch ECs because (as you've found out) you might end up digging the hole deeper. Of course, that could just as easily happen if stay on the same EC, but it won't happen beyond a certain point.
Yes I have noticed that. I think that I will not switch ECs again, only play my chosen EC all the time.
Here is a session for you guys to test out. If you clear it, then you can consider yourself good at this and go and make money ;)
I checked with the sequence analyzer how often you get only 65 wins in 200 spins.
It took 55 miljon spins.
Second check:
It took 6 milj spins
That one was only 61 wins :O
Will post it up later.
Try it out :thumbsup:
Bayes, I've just read your topic about "trend surfing" very interesting. What bankroll would you suggest ? what was your lowest point playing this way ?
Fripper, how many sessions with 65/135 have you found in 55M spins ? one ?
I looked for 65/135 sessions.
After 55M spins I found the first.
Then after 6M more spins I found another one, which was 61 wins.
So it was 2 of them in those 61M spins.
I will wait until bayes does the save spins thing in the analyzer. To write every session manually and also the following sessions is to time consuming.
Quote from: aleks06 on Feb 13, 09:50 AM 2011
Bayes, I've just read your topic about "trend surfing" very interesting. What bankroll would you suggest ? what was your lowest point playing this way ?
Highest drawdown so far is about 200 units, but keep in mind I've only tested it over a few thousand spins. I would recommend a bank of at least 1000 units, even though it may not be needed.
Quote from: Bayes on Feb 13, 11:32 AM 2011
Highest drawdown so far is about 200 units, but keep in mind I've only tested it over a few thousand spins. I would recommend a bank of at least 1000 units, even though it may not be needed.
Have you tried any of the "horror" sessions?
Or have you only played for real?
If I have fully understood Bayes uses a bet selection which approaches something like " follow the last". So the "horror" sessions would be easy for this kind of bet selection...
The last session with 65 reds is really hard fripper...I don't know how we are going to overcome it betting red all the time ???
Quote from: aleks06 on Feb 14, 04:31 AM 2011
If I have fully understood Bayes uses a bet selection which approaches something like " follow the last". So the "horror" sessions would be easy for this kind of bet selection...
The last session with 65 reds is really hard fripper...I don't know how we are going to overcome it betting red all the time ???
Ok, maybe so.
Yes it was hard. But I cleared it, altough bankroll needed was about 5000 units. Highest bet 2636 units ;) :o (9 zero's and a one)
Remember that there was about 2 of these sessions in 61M spins. Roughly 305000 sessions.
This is propably how bad as it gets. Now, 5000 units in 0.01$ bets = 50$ as a bankroll.
Imagine a bot playing 0.01$ bets all the time, it should be nearly unbeatable.
I've played a few tough sessions betting one side only, all of them came good in the end. The thing to keep in mind is you can't say after a session that "if I had been using such-and-such bet selection I wouldn't have had those losses", because every bet selection has its nemesis. FTL or trending will do well in sequences where there is a strong deviation, but what about choppy sequences? Even having stop losses doesn't necessarily help. Supposing you're betting red and have a rule that you stop after 2 losses in a row, then restart after a single win, the nemesis for that would be this:
BB are BB are BB are BB are BB...
So when testing a system you really need to test it against the worst sequences you can find for that particular bet selection, not something which would a tough sequence for some other bet selection.
Some believe that all bet selections are equal, and there is no advantage to be gained by choosing one over another - you might as well bet one side constantly. Based on my experience, I'm not of that opinion. I don't know whether it's possible to win flat betting, but you can definitely shorten the length of the losing sequences - some bet selections are better than others.
Well done Fripper,
2636 units :o ;D
we could even imagine 0,10$ units bets It will fit the limit table of some casinos (betvoyager...)
Fripper....
I have 45 spins left in that last sequence you posted. So far my highest bet has not been over 150 units and I am +7 units......
I don't play it the way you do, using a double up approach and sitting spins out if you hit a certain number of losses in a row. I bet on every spin and I do not double. So far so good. I will report back after I get through the last part of the spins..
@ aleks06
Well, 2636units * 0,10 = 263,6$
Isn't the limits for ECs 0.01$-100$ ?
Then it could only be done with 0.01$ bets or a little more.
@Big EZ
Nicely done. I look forward to know how you play.
As we know already, we have endless of ways on playing this baby.
Fripper,
betvoyager, 1 zero roulette, limit on EC is 1000€ ;)
BigEZ, I can't wait to see how you play it !!!
As long as you predetermine what you want your max bet to be around you can do anything you want with this baby. The 9 zeros serve as a very important piece to the puzzle when your bets start getting to high and you only have say 4 spots of the labby left 1,1,1,1 you can always keep expanding to keep your bets low or what you feel comfortable with.
Here you can see how I played it. I may not even be doing it right lol, but it works for me.
Let me know what you think.
Highest bet 212 units and I didnt clear it out at the end, but still in profit
[reveal]
15 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
4 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
9 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
17 0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
2 0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1
25 0,0,0,0,1,1
20 0,0,0,1,1,1
8 0,0,1,1,1,1
6 0,1,1,1,1,1
10 1,1,1,1,1,1
3 1,1,1,1
17 1,1,2,2
24 2,2,2,3
26 3,3,4,4
22 5,5,5,6
8 8,8,8,8
21 8,8
16 win cleared the labby +1
11 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
2 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
9 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
24 0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
17 0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1
24 0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1
2 0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1
17 0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1
12 0,1,1,1,1,1
19 1,1,1,1,
2 1,1,2,2
18 1,2
0 3,3
35 6,6
17 12,12
30 win cleared labby +2
17 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
9 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
8 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
35 0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
29 0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1
35 0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1
10 0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1
12 0,0,0,1,1,1
0 0,0,1,1,1,1
33 0,1,1,1,1,1
32 1,1,1,1
18 1,1
0 2,2
17 4,4
2 8,8
10 8,8,8,8
34 8,8
11 16,16
3 win clear the labby +3
8 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
20 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
0 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1
13 0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1
6 0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1
22 0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1
4 0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
12 0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1
28 0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
1 1,1,1,1,1,1
10 1,1,1,1,2,2
14 1,1,1,2
13 2,2,2,2
28 3,3,3,3
22 4,4,5,5
5 4,5
24 9,9
13 18,18
20 36,36
29 36,36,36,36
4 54,54,54,54
25 27,27,27,27
6 27,27,27,27,27,27
5 27,27,27,27
32 27,27
3 win clear the labby +4
18 win clear the labby +5
32 win clear the labby +6
4 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
18 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
26 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
26 0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
0 0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1
8 0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1
6 0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1
11 0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1
17 0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
17 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
18 1,1,1,1,1,1
31 1,1,1,1,2,2
4 1,2,2,2,2,2
17 2,2,2,2,3,3
35 3,3,3,3,3,4
18 3,3,3,3
2 4,4,5,5
7 4,5
17 9,9
28 18,18
7 win clear the labby +7
35 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
10 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
8 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1
29 0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1
31 0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1
11 0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1
10 0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
14 0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1
10 0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
2 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
11 1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2
15 1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2
9 1,1,2,2,2,2
0 2,2,2,2,2,3
13 3,3,3,3,3,3
19 3,3,3,3
17 4,4,5,5
24 6,7,7,7
24 10,10,10,10
35 10,10,10,10,10,10
28 13,13,13,13,14,14
16 13,13,13,14
8 20,20,20,20
15 30,30,30,30
35 45,45,45,45
26 45,45,45,45,45,45
9 45,45,45,45
21 45,45
13 45,45,45,45
3 45,45
22 45,45,45,45
20 45,45,45,45,45,45
25 45,45,45,45
36 45,45
35 45,45,45,45
22 45,45,45,45,45,45
28 60,60,60,60,60,60
8 60,60,60,60,60,60,60,60
28 75,75,75,75,75,75,75,75
21 75,75,75,75,75,75
14 30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30,30
29 36,36,36,36,36,36,36,36,36,36
0 43,43,43,43,43,43,43,43,44,44
32 43,43,43,43,43,43,43,44
11 43,43,43,43,43,43,43,43,44,44
4 50,51,51,51,51,51,51,51,51,51
26 61,61,61,61,61,61,61,61,61,61
18 61,61,61,61,61,61,61,61
2 61,61,61,61,61,61,61,61
27 61,61,61,61,61,61
34 30,30,30,30,31,31,31,31
31 38,38,38,38,38,38,38,39
13 47,47,48,48,48,48,48,48
4 59,59,59,60,60,60,60,60
29 73,74,74,75,75,75,75,75
5 74,74,75,75,75,75
18 74,75,75,75
1 30,30,30,30,30
24 42,42,42,42,42
2 58,59,59,59,59
6 82,82,82,82,83
26 82,82,82,82,82,83,83
28 105,106,106,106,106,106,106
36 106,106,106,106,106
5 106,106,106
3 106
25 win cleared labby +8
15 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
29 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
12 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
14 win labby cleared +9
31 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
2 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
36 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
25 win cleared the labby +10
10 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
32 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
20 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
14 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
8 0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
15 0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1
27 0,0,0,0,1,1
20 0,0,0,1,1,1
6 0,0,1,1,1,1
21 0,1,1,1
6 1,1,1,1
31 1,1,2,2
20 2,2,2,3
4 3,3,4,4
33 5,5,5,6
18 5,5
3 win labby cleared +11
28 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
13 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
11 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1
27 0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1
21 0,0,0,0,0,1
28 0,0,0,0,1,1[/reveal]
[attachimg=#]
:wink:
;D ;D
Nice one Luke!
very good EZ,
but at this point 105,106,106,106,106,106,106
It's very dangerous for your bankroll you are already at -741 and if you find a serie of black it could be a KO.
maybe with 15 zero's it would be safer
Alek,
You are correct my friend it might be a KO.But my bets arent even close to as high as Frippers are.
The more zeros you use the safer and more of a grind it becomes, and the less profit you make. It is all about your personal preference and how you prefer to play it.
Quote from: Big EZ on Feb 14, 01:01 PM 2011
Alek,
You are correct my friend it might be a KO.But my bets arent even close to as high as Frippers are.
The more zeros you use the safer and more of a grind it becomes, and the less profit you make. It is all about your personal preference and how you prefer to play it.
Thanks for posting your way EZ. Incredible! :thumbsup:
I agree with you, your bets isn't even near as high as mine.
Remember aleks, this is as bad as it gets. You won't probably suffer these hard sessions in real life.
I will study your way more EZ, until then you can test some of the "horror" sessions in this thread to see how your way performs in different situations. Every session is unique.
@Flukey
:D
Big EZ
Would you mind explaining how you play?
I see that you play every spin.
But how do you decided when you add more figures to the labby?
How do you now when to reduce your bets in the labby?
You don't use "mini-marty" as we say.
:)
Hey guys
I just tested a 91 spin session (A usual one, 49 reds, 40 blacks, 2 zero)
1.
First I tested with Trio's. (Mini-marty 3 steps. )
Result was +22 units.
Highest bet 54
Lowest point -77
2.
Then I tested the way Big Ez played.
Result was +25 units
Highest bet 7
Lowest point -1
I also tested the 65/128 session this way and got a high bet of about 250 units (A little higher then Big EZ got, maybe did some error, don't know)
It's amazing so far. :thumbsup:
The point with the test was to see which one does the most profit. I didn't think that the second way would make more profit, but it did. I'm not sure tho about if it always show more profit then "trio's" but I think it does.
So, we should test the 11 "horror" sessions from Bayes playing this way.
:thumbsup:
Ok guys this the holy grail... :thumbsup: ;D
Last night in my bed i was thinking and i got some ideas. I thought " why we never tried to modify the stop-loss which is a very important point ?"
that's what I've done tonight...
I set as stop-loss : 2 losses
I start a labby with 9 zero's and a 1.
I play every spin until 2 losses.
When I lose 1 bet I replace a zero. when there is no zero left I add one figure and I split the labby into the lowest figures possible.
here are the results :
lowest point : -109
highest bet : 26 units
83 spins to end the first labby
85 spins to end the secnd labby
1 spin to end the third labby
and only one more win ( 1 red ) to end the fourth labby and give a 4 units profit.
You will see in my spreadsheet that my first labby gives a 3 units profit, i did some little errors but it doesn't matter.
Of course it needs more testing, maybe with a marty on 2 step like before it could be even better ( more profit ), we need to test it on the "horror" sessions and "normal" sessions.
But it looks really good :D
06,
I think that we're getting somewhere worth going with this. :thumbsup:
I can sympathise with you about lying in bet thinking about different ways to modify bets, selections, triggers, win targets, stop losses, egads make it stop :'(
But then sometimes, that's when we come up with our best ideas. ;D
Cheers,
George
Hey Marcus,
Could you finalise this system's structure and rules? If yes, there should be a "new topic" in the section "Full Systems" explaining it in laymen's language. This sytem is one of the most discussed systems in this forum hence the actual playing technique should be revealed for all in its proper place. It is no more a "general discussion" stuff.
Quote from: albalaha on Feb 15, 11:35 PM 2011
Hey Marcus,
Could you finalise this system's structure and rules? If yes, there should be a "new topic" in the section "Full Systems" explaining it in laymen's language. This sytem is one of the most discussed systems in this forum hence the actual playing technique should be revealed for all in its proper place. It is no more a "general discussion" stuff.
Hi dear.
I can't. We are still experimenting with it and coming up with new ideas, maybe in the future we can put a new topic in full systems.
@aleks06
If I understood correctly then a longer serie of this isn't good:
RBBRBBRBBRBBRBB
or
RBBRBBBBRBBBBRBBBRBB
Dear Marcus,
the only thing that I understood about this form of labby is putting lots of 0s and one 1 to begin with instead of 1234 as in the classic version. This way you minimise losses. I could not understand anything else about it. can't anybody rewrite the entire concept in easy to understand language?
@Big EZ
I tested your method some and it really becomes a grind. I couldn't end one of the "horror" sessions.
Update
The way I see it, the best so far is the usual way.
9 zero's and a 1.
Until we have two losses we play each spin. If lose the first, double up. (mini-marty).
If we lose 2 in a row, our labby starts.
Then we bet in pairs (75/25 odds).
If win first bet, don't bet the last spin in that pair.
I recommend 10 figures max, that way we only need 5 wins to end the labby.
After 4 losses in a row we wait until a virtual win comes and start again.
I must test all the horror sessions again this way. Before I switched ECs, now I'm not.
Thoughts?
Fripper,
What horror session could you not clear? I will take a look at it and see if I can do it.
And yes it does become a grind, but if you have enough spins you will always clear the labby.
Quote from: Big EZ on Feb 16, 11:18 AM 2011
Fripper,
What horror session could you not clear? I will take a look at it and see if I can do it.
And yes it does become a grind, but if you have enough spins you will always clear the labby.
Yes we will clear them eventually, but the bets may be too high.
Look in this thread for bayes "horror" sessions. There is a file which contains 11 of them.
I attach them for you :thumbsup:
Session 7 with Fripper's new rules.
227 spins
profit : 12 units
highest bet : 122
lowest point : -281
good results
I will try the "65 wins session" tonight ;)
Quote from: aleks06 on Feb 16, 01:14 PM 2011
Session 7 with Fripper's new rules.
227 spins
profit : 12 units
highest bet : 122
lowest point : -281
good results
I will try the "65 wins session" tonight ;)
Good results aleks. Don't have to high hopes about the "65 wins session" :D But who knows.
Is the above results done with the rules I set in reply 279?
If so, then continue testing.
I have started testing the horror sessions again with good results.
Have tested the first 2 sessions. You could test 8-11, if you want.
Quote from: Fripper on Feb 16, 01:44 PM 2011
Is the above results done with the rules I set in reply 279?
Yes.
Quote from: Fripper on Feb 16, 01:44 PM 2011
You could test 8-11, if you want.
Ok. ;)
how are you doing with your tests fripper ?
after many experiments, i think i will test the sessions with my way i.e no marty, stop after 2 losses, max figures : 10.
So far it looks good.
please keep testing with your way and at the end we will see who has the best results.
cheers
So far so good.
Ok, lets see which performs best. :)
hey fripper, how are your tests going ?
They are good.
I have modified mine some, I'm using a zero in all the session, adapting to the bad runs.
My bets are way lower.
How's yours?
well I tried different ways (except yours) with different results but every times I try something new i have good sessions and bad. Maybe i'm too "perfectionist" and I have to consider that we can't have something perfect.
How are they "good". what is in average the lowest point and highest bet ?
how do you use the zero ?
Ye me to, I'm testing different things. I get some really nice sessions and then some bad ones.
I don't know yet which is the best..
You are right, nothing is perfect, but the question is which is the best.
Dear Fripper, do you want some help testing ? I'm currently out of ideas... ??? :-[
We will talk on Skype my friend.
Here is the 11 horror sessions provided by bayes in this thread.
I attach them all with separate text files.
Each has 400 spins. Real 200 spins + 200 following
Cheers
Hello Fripper,
I was just wondering if you were still working on this idea. This one really caught my interest and things looked promising in the early stages.
I have more or less started my own testing using a slight variation and so far so good.
I am playing an even chance bet but waiting for my bet section to hit a low of 20% over a period of at least 30 spins before I would start betting.
My theory is that groups of numbers come and go in cycles and I am happy to sit and wait for my bet selection to hit a rough patch before going on an upward curve. Of course the possibility is there for it to continue to perform badly but I have not witnessed it so far.
Hi Flukey
It's very good becuase you have alot of different options so you can adjust to your personal choice. I'm still winning with it and I recommend to play on live wheels, it should be very hard to lose a bank of 1000 units there. Rng is faster but also more difficult, if you ask me.
You can play the original way or you can adapt to bad runs etc. There are many ways to do this..
Report back if you want, with how you play and any winnings is also nice to hear about! :)
Cheers
Hi Fripper,
Picked this method up long time ago on the ProjectSydney board which is now long gone. Played around with it back than but it appears it wasn't finished! I'm very happy to have found this thread as it seems belgian quit posting but he did fine tune his method!!
I'm thinking about picking up this method again for testing, but before i do can you tell me a little bit more about your last results? Still no loss? Sure hope so!
Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Alex
Hi,the idea of this method is excellent. it can be real the holy grail. The problem is that the most of the people here did not understand it, just like me. Can someone tell us how to use it?
thanks in andvance
Hi alex and predator
Sorry alex that I didn't answer earlier. I read your message but was in a hurry and forgot about it.
Well, I haven't tested this for a while. I and aleks06 tested some things together and we got some promising results. It looks like with every tweak you do it gets better for a while but then it busts.
However the best method so far is the orginial one. We play exactly like belgian does and when we reach two 4-in a row losses we split all the figures and move the half to another EC. This is to reduce the bets and risk.
I have explained several times in this thread and also belgian have some examples. The original way hasn't lost yet for me. We tested all the bad sessions that was provided in this thread and all was cleared.
Read through this thread and I think you will understand everything. It isn't that hard when you have tried some sessions.
Look at the excel files, they are very good and you can watch spin by spin.
If you still don't get it, then I'm happy to provide you with a sample again :)
I don't play this anymore becuase I played at an RNG and was close to lose it all once. I started doubting it's randomness but I'm not sure about that either. I recommend playing at a live wheel or preferably in a land based casino. Do like belgian, set goal and rise your bets accordingly. I will find it very hard to see you lose.
Cheers
This is the only method that I haven't lost with yet, so it is indeed very strong.
When I find a pretty good method I always test it until it busts (Everyone should do this). However with this method I have tested over 10000 spins along with the 11 horror session provided here in this thread, and all cleared.
I mean the original method. With that I mean we are splitting the figures to another EC when we have 2 four-in-a-row losses or your preferable amount.
I just wanted to bring this up again as this is the best method I know of so far.
Here is a typical 1000 spin session, there will be worse and also some that are easier.
Hi Fripper,
Thank you very much for your reply!
It's a funny thing, this method never left my mind since the first time I encountered it. And now I see it is still winning. Back in 2005 I tried to code it in RX but with no luck (and to little perserverance). Maybe somebody skilled in RX can code it now? In the meantime I have to go back to learning the basics of this method again, will go through the pages tomorrow!
Fripper, let's see if we can make it go bust somewhere along the road :-)
Again thanks for all the work you have already put into it!
Cheers,
Alexander
Hi aleks and others that struggles with how to play this baby.
I posted an explanation in full systems area and that's the best explanation I can do.
Check it out:
link:://rouletteforum.cc/full-systems/how-to-play-with-a-'labby'/ (link:://rouletteforum.cc/full-systems/how-to-play-with-a-'labby'/)
Cheers
I agree with what you have said... I have ALWAYS a problem with EVEN MONEY progression...
I'm a fan of progression of 9 numbers or LESS!!! You get more shots..
WHY ON EARTH PROGRESS... Will this not work with Flat betting?
what about waiting for an even chance to sleep 10-15 spins, then play the opposite, in 100 spins or so there should be a balance or at least the opposite will appear close to 50/50
Imagine you have watched the last 50 spins and the balance between red and black is 18/32. So you would think that red was about to pick up within 50 - 100 spins. BUT what if someone then showed you the last 100 spins before you arrived at the casino and that the total balance of those now 150 spins was red: 85 Black: 65.......... So actually it is black that is supposed to pick up because its behind.
So how far back does it makes sense to go ? 50, 150, 450 ......or what. The truth is, that it doesnt help you to write down those things, you will never be sure that you win.
Kelly, I partly agree. So at least you admit that past spins CAN be an indicator of future results? if that weren't the case what would be the point of 'looking back' at all? Taking your point to its logical conclusion, it might seem that making a faithful record of all spins ever spun on a given wheel might be the key to success! ;D
But the maths tells us it makes no difference (and you can verify it by simulation), so it doesn't matter if you switch wheels after seeing a strong deviation on one, the most likely scenario is ALWAYS a result closer to the average (much nearer to 50:50 than not for EC bets). The longer the deviation, the less likely it will occur in subsequent samples of the same size.
I don't have any argument with the fact that we're dealing with independent trials, only the illogical proposition that ANYTHING can happen in the game. That simply isn't the case. The contradiction lies in the fact that statistics are used to determine that, say, the wheel is BIASED when a certain number of standard deviations are exceeded, but the so-called "mathboys" also demand that this can also occur (a z-score of 4, 5, 6 or more) when the wheel is perfectly random! You can't have it both ways.
QuoteSo at least you admit that past spins CAN be an indicator of future results
No i dont think i said that, quite the opposit really. What i meant is that the logic is flawed because you dont really know where you are in relation to the mean (how many spins backwards is the real situation). Well a 6 SD CAN occur, but the probability is extremely low since already at 3 SD you cover 99,7 of all trials.
Quote from: kelly on Jul 30, 07:48 AM 2011
What I meant is that the logic is flawed because you don't really know where you are in relation to the mean (how many spins backwards is the real situation).
But supposing you DID know where you were in relation to the mean, the maths says that doesn't help either, because all spins are independent.
The point I'm trying to make is that someone looking for a biased wheel, using recorded results as a guide, would be justified in assuming bias if he finds a strong deviation over enough spins, and yet at the same time, this is "meaningless" because past spins don't affect future spins.
I'm only talking about the determination of bias from SPINS, not visual indicators which may or may not confirm it. In that case, how much deviation is enough to be justified in concluding there is bias?
Agree, but i like to pick on the principle instead of the math, as it seems to be a sore thump on these boards. :)
To be honest, i haven`t got a clue how many spins you shold track before you were absoloutely certain it was a bias if there were no visual. Im sure that if i dig down in the numbers i can find that out, but its not a number i got in the back of my head, any way its way too high to be of any interest to most players. The casino will have tracked it before you have, if you do it that way. And as soon you start play it they will fix the wheel because they might not react on it as long as no one seems to know about it. I know the chi square must be at least 55 but thats about it.
I think of a better approach to avoid volatility,
instead of playing even chances, lets build one.
I would play the last 18 spun (different) numbers, ie. I will have to track the last 18 to 36 spins.
why?
you won't find any streak of 20+ losses on a row, like we saw in the horror sessions, or at least I couldnt find it.
and the reason is because you are playing 18 numbers that were recently spun, to lose and keep losing the roulette should draw "new" numbers all time, and that is very rare to happen. in a 36-40 spin record, you will notice only 20-25 different numbers.
If someone wants to code and look for horror sessions playing always the last 18 numbers would be great!
20 - 25 different numbers is just an average(joe). You certainly WILL find streaks of 30 different numbers for example. I know someone who ran a test on 1.000.000 spins to see how chunks of 37 spins appeared numberwise. I will see if i can find it.
Summe der eingelesenen Coups: 1.000.000
1 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
2 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
3 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
4 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
[/size] 5 PMZen pro Rotation: 0[/size] 6 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
7 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
8 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
9 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
10 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
11 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
12 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
13 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
14 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
15 PMZen pro Rotation: 3
16 PMZen pro Rotation: 33
17 PMZen pro Rotation: 329
18 PMZen pro Rotation: 1866
19 PMZen pro Rotation: 7755
20 PMZen pro Rotation: 25768
21 PMZen pro Rotation: 64143
22 PMZen pro Rotation: 124890
23 PMZen pro Rotation: 183836
24 PMZen pro Rotation: 207486
25 PMZen pro Rotation: 179348
26 PMZen pro Rotation: 117390
27 PMZen pro Rotation: 58398
28 PMZen pro Rotation: 21564
29 PMZen pro Rotation: 5911
30 PMZen pro Rotation: 1094
31 PMZen pro Rotation: 129
32 PMZen pro Rotation: 20
33 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
34 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
35 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
36 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
37 PMZen pro Rotation: 0
Summe/Abschnitte : 999963 zu je 37 Coups
He took 1 mill spin and every time 37 numbers had appeared it was 1 rotation and the computer noted how many different numbers had appeared. He then rewrote the program to get more rotations out of the 1 mill spin so that when spin 38 appeared, the spin 1 disappeared and it was then a new rotation. When spin 39 appeared, spin 2 disappeared. That way he managed to get 999963 rotations out of 1 mill spins. Otherwise he would have needed some 37.000.000 spins to get 1 mill rotations.
As you see up to 32 different numbers is capable of appearing. I know, 37 is possible, but that didn`t happen.
Paroli testet a game where if:
5 different 6 streets had appeared in 5 spins, he would bet 1 time on these 5 x 6 streets until either +1 or -11 happened. This is how it went. Testet WITH zero and WITHOUT zero. (Only theoreticly could this happen)
link:://:.roulette-forum.de/topic/82-23-gesetz-beim-roulette/page__hl__%2Bzweidrittel+%2Bgesetz__st__40 (link:://:.roulette-forum.de/topic/82-23-gesetz-beim-roulette/page__hl__%2Bzweidrittel+%2Bgesetz__st__40)
but it was 32 in a row? or 32 numbers spreaded over the 37 spins?
even if that was the case you would lose less than 20-25 spins. :)
maybe i wasnt clear, we would play the last 18 different numbers that have been spuned, so you will have a range of 18-36 spins. even more, as I see 15 numbers in 37 spins.
can you ask your friend , if he plays the last 18 different numbers whats the maximum amount spins to hit a win?
let me show you an example for 32 different numbers (20 in 1 million cases!)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 we start betting next spin:
19
5 win
20
21
22
23
24
25
5 win
26
27
28
20 win
20 win
29
30
31
32
20 win
so you see, you can have 32 different numbers and dont have a wide streak of lossing spins.
all these cases should not have long streaks of losing either:
15 PMZen pro Rotation: 3
16 PMZen pro Rotation: 33
17 PMZen pro Rotation: 329
18 PMZen pro Rotation: 1866
19 PMZen pro Rotation: 7755
20 PMZen pro Rotation: 25768
21 PMZen pro Rotation: 64143
22 PMZen pro Rotation: 124890
23 PMZen pro Rotation: 183836
24 PMZen pro Rotation: 207486
25 PMZen pro Rotation: 179348
26 PMZen pro Rotation: 117390
27 PMZen pro Rotation: 58398
Great discussion guys, I have been doing something along these lines for about 2 weeks now, I have found that the big issue is 2 fold, how many numbers to use to bet and what progression to use because you do get losing streeks but I have yet to note 36 continual unique numbers, I have had 34 already.
You will need a progression as I tried flat betting, yes you do get ahead BUT recovering after 5 or 6 losses while betting on 32 numbers can take a while. Last night (5.30pm) I started the bot and left it running over night, the results look very good, I will put the file into reveal but here is the last line
Win Prog 1 Cash 12082 Peak 12067 (21)
Prog = progression, cash = how much it has made, peak = the highest it got, (21) = numbers covered. The highest progression used was 60 units on 34 numbers, if you play cents or pennies thats not a lot!!
[reveal] Prog 1 Cash -15 Peak 0 (15)
Prog 2 Cash -47 Peak 0 (16)
Win Prog 3 Cash 10 Peak 0 (17)
Win Prog 1 Cash 29 Peak 10 (17)
Win Prog 1 Cash 48 Peak 29 (17)
Win Prog 1 Cash 67 Peak 48 (17)
Win Prog 1 Cash 86 Peak 67 (17)
Prog 1 Cash 69 Peak 86 (17)
Prog 2 Cash 33 Peak 86 (18)
Win Prog 3 Cash 84 Peak 86 (19)
Win Prog 4 Cash 152 Peak 86 (19)
Prog 1 Cash 133 Peak 152 (19)
Prog 2 Cash 93 Peak 152 (20)
Win Prog 3 Cash 138 Peak 152 (21)
Win Prog 4 Cash 198 Peak 152 (21)
Prog 1 Cash 177 Peak 198 (21)
Prog 2 Cash 133 Peak 198 (22)
Prog 3 Cash 64 Peak 198 (23)
Win Prog 4 Cash 112 Peak 198 (24)
Win Prog 5 Cash 172 Peak 198 (24)
Prog 6 Cash 28 Peak 198 (24)
Win Prog 7 Cash 105 Peak 198 (25)
Prog 8 Cash -95 Peak 198 (25)
Win Prog 9 Cash -5 Peak 198 (26)
Win Prog 10 Cash 95 Peak 198 (26)
Prog 11 Cash -191 Peak 198 (26)
Prog 12 Cash -515 Peak 198 (27)
Win Prog 13 Cash -411 Peak 198 (28)
Prog 14 Cash -803 Peak 198 (28)
Win Prog 15 Cash -698 Peak 198 (29)
Win Prog 16 Cash -586 Peak 198 (29)
Win Prog 17 Cash -467 Peak 198 (29)
Win Prog 18 Cash -341 Peak 198 (29)
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Prog 20 Cash -788 Peak 198 (29)
Win Prog 21 Cash -662 Peak 198 (30)
Win Prog 22 Cash -530 Peak 198 (30)
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Win Prog 1 Cash 638 Peak 623 (21)
Prog 1 Cash 618 Peak 638 (20)
Prog 2 Cash 576 Peak 638 (21)
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Prog 4 Cash 418 Peak 638 (23)
Win Prog 5 Cash 478 Peak 638 (24)
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Win Prog 9 Cash 598 Peak 638 (25)
Prog 10 Cash 348 Peak 638 (25)
Prog 11 Cash 62 Peak 638 (26)
Prog 12 Cash -262 Peak 638 (27)
Win Prog 13 Cash -158 Peak 638 (28)
Win Prog 14 Cash -46 Peak 638 (28)
Win Prog 15 Cash 74 Peak 638 (28)
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Win Prog 19 Cash 634 Peak 638 (28)
Prog 20 Cash 74 Peak 638 (28)
Win Prog 21 Cash 221 Peak 638 (29)
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Win Prog 23 Cash 536 Peak 638 (29)
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Prog 1 Cash 4386 Peak 4407 (21)
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Win Prog 1 Cash 4452 Peak 4436 (20)
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Prog 1 Cash 4710 Peak 4731 (21)
Prog 2 Cash 4666 Peak 4731 (22)
Prog 3 Cash 4597 Peak 4731 (23)
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Prog 1 Cash 5096 Peak 5119 (23)
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Win Prog 1 Cash 12082 Peak 12067 (21)[/reveal]
Nice discussion, keep it going.
@superman
What exactly are you betting? Which numbers do you choose?
QuoteWhat exactly are you betting?
Inside numbers only.
QuoteWhich numbers do you choose?
that's where it gets difficult, the bot monitors the last 40 numbers out, counts singles, doubles, triples, quads etc then calculates the remainder to build a list of numbers to bet on, I have had this method working for about 3 weeks now and decided to revisit it again with a simple progression, +1 if behind, until ahead then reset. Remember Dyksexlic (forum member) he didn't give us any real clues BUT after a few PMs' between Victor and myself I botted what we thought was his method, it got too risky and sometimes never caught up.
I have just about given up on EC Dozens Columns streets and all the other areas of the table, I play RNG only as its quick and I want a bot that can be left runniing all on its own, I know others will say it's impossible but I disagree, if you can cover enough to gain an edge then the only problem you have is progression, as you can see from the reveal file results, the most losses is around 4 to 6 in a row, you would think a straight forward progression to cover the losses and be ahead on the first win would work, it does, BUT the bets get too high and depending on your unit size you can reach the table limits. The reveal file is played with 10cent chips, yes that's over $1000 profit overnight, continual play.
It's still a work in progress, but I noticed this discussion and decided to add my bit.
Ignore colours hi/low etc go for the throat of random, it's the numbers that are the starting point for any result, the felt is just there to confuse/distract us, what does and RNG give? numbers, I've been concentrating on numbers now for over a month.
There isn't a hard rule as to how far back you gather your numbers, I have just plugged in 3 or 4 different methods and the reveal shows the results I am getting. It does look promising though.
Fantastic work Neil. :)
Great to read some progress on that Inside idea U had months ago.
Nice to see a new twist on a central theme.
Hey Chris how are you?I like a lot this kind of methods and the one i use now uses the last 24 different spawn numbers with a pretty mild progression.I am really interested to your idea superman and the way you choose these numbers.If you would explain some more about this it would be really great.And you are right about inside bets,concerning me it's the best way to go.
@superman,
So you’re eventually betting on a big pile of numbers, and you’re using a progression?
If you were to put a pseudo RNG into a bot and then tell it to bet on ‘however many’ selected numbers and use your current progression, do you think you might get very similar results to your existing package?
QuoteSo you’re eventually betting on a big pile of numbers, and you’re using a progression?
Yes, depending on the amount of losses the number of numbers covered rises, which does 2 things, raises the expense but gives more hits, which also slows down recovery, I have tried as many different progressions as possible, like I said earlier, you would think with 4 losses in a row it would be safe to use a progression that covers your losses +1 well, that backfired, as did labouche as did d'lambert so to keep bets low I decided +1 win or lose IF behind, yes it can be a grind clawing back but its probably the safest. There was a member here called Dyksexlic that basically stated he covers a lot of the table and the general feel was he was covering whatever had come out and if it came out twice he would put 2 chips on it, and just keep increasing by a chip whichever number hit last, I tried that and yes it wins a lot but it goes past a point of no return, example, when 5 or more numbers have 7 or 8 chips and a numbe rlands that only has 1 chip, you still lose, a lot.
Quotethe one I use now uses the last 24 different spawn numbers
Like I said earlier, the number we chaeck/track back to is something that needs a lot of testing, if you are running over the last 24 you are probably most of the time only getting 16 -18 numbers, which is good for a progression to recover but you must be getting a fair amoun tof high progressions when all 24 are unique! I have tried everything from the last 10 right up to 36 I found that when you are just getting unique numbers coming out for 10 extra spins the progression can do 2 things, either table limit OR they are just too high for the risk. Currently I look back over the last 40 but I don't think that will be the final number, I've morphed a few methods together that all catch diiferent numbers depending on appearance so in short its sleepers hot ones and a bit of a wild card method I made a long time ago that was quite good, not good enough to put money on, but accuracy was fair, basically I test different seeds values against the last and previous outcomes as this is what an RNG does, and the sum that creates the seed value uses the last outcome for the next, I know, we have no way of knowing THEIR seed value but hey it had a fair strike rate, and it gives another number to bet on, probably just luck.
QuoteAnd you are right about inside bets,concerning me it's the best way to go
I'm leaning that way, I have always said we are playing the RNG not roulette, the roulette table is just a convenient place to place bets.
QuoteIf you were to put a pseudo RNG into a bot
Trust me mate, I first test against the random() function of the software I build the bots in, if it passes that then I run it against Playtech and finally onto BV NZ, the results I put in the first post were from BV NZ overnight. I have also in the past run methods against PHP random() too. I always test this way, since RXTreme using it's internal RNG.
Quote from: superman on Jul 31, 10:38 AM 2011
Yes, depending on the amount of losses the number of numbers covered rises, which does 2 things, raises the expense but gives more hits, which also slows down recovery, I have tried as many different progressions as possible, like I said earlier, you would think with 4 losses in a row it would be safe to use a progression that covers your losses +1 well, that backfired, as did Labouchere as did d'lambert so to keep bets low I decided +1 win or lose IF behind, yes it can be a grind clawing back but its probably the safest. There was a member here called Dyksexlic that basically stated he covers a lot of the table and the general feel was he was covering whatever had come out and if it came out twice he would put 2 chips on it, and just keep increasing by a chip whichever number hit last, I tried that and yes it wins a lot but it goes past a point of no return, example, when 5 or more numbers have 7 or 8 chips and a number lands that only has 1 chip, you still lose, a lot.
I tried this when I first got introduced to Roulette, and you feel very exposed when the *common* numbers are increasing, and the "Already Ran" numbers are looking decidedly 'naked'.
It reminds me of our bot-
Bis-Sector-Hot-WFS, which, if your quick and can get in on the Rebet button, just as the bot is awaiting for the last Spun result, You can bet on the last sector that obviously missed, then the Bot bets on the latest sector, and if these are ding-donging between each other, and a third, You can get the common "
Overlap" numbers rising in value.
But of course, what happens- the lowest covered (value wise) hits, and You have to abandon that attack, and take the loss.
What I was waiting for was to land on one of the *
Juicy* -well endowed numbers, and make the profit, but the correlation between an Overlapped number, and the reality of hitting it (since it may or may-not, be) one of the previously Marquee'd numbers now showing/or just left, is not set in stone!
Its more likely that the "
Juiced-up" number(s) was/were a sleeper(s) anyway! :wink:
I thinks it's safe to say with RNG forget anything to do with roulette, wheel layout or table layout AND the marquee, they are just a bi product of the spun number, the nu,mber it first then it gets divided into different areas of the felt, sectors should be left to real wheels and bias.
It's very rare for an RNG to give 36 unique numbers in a row, it can and probably does happen, I have not seen it, but you can rest assured it will at some point, so, a method that bets on whats already happened and grows/shrinks with the flow of random is what's needed, and a safe recovery progression too. I have made many bots that can run continually but again table limits or comfort of bet size are the issues, I'm under no illusion that it may never work but we gotta try anyway.
Well i always had the feeling that RNG is "trying" to be fair about results,at least more fair than real roulette.By fair i mean even distribution on colors,dozens,columns,numbers,...etc.I run a test somewhen with about 200,000 spins from BV No zero.I divided numbers to 3 groups,12 different last spawn,12 spawn before them and 12 sleepers and guess what...even with this groups the distribution of hits was equal.If this would happen in every session we would play i guess we would be winners huh?... ::)
QuoteIf this would happen in every session we would play I guess we would be winners
That we would, but it's not that simple, I too have done extensive tests on 36/7 numbers, splitting them into groups to see when the re-hits happen, they are all over the place so we can't work with that.
Bingo Superman . . . I too agree that RNG is the way to go but only if your bet selection based on inside numbers. I plan on having a bot coded and have found no problem in getting the bet selections to win, but as you point out it is the money management that requires fine tuning.
The table limits, as you noted, poses the biggest problem. As of now, using only BV or low limit Casino's using $.25, $.10, $.01 would be practical and profitable using a basic loss recovery system, ie. If your bet selection is for 5 numbers, you can bet them for 7 spins totaling 35 unit loss before increasing bet by 1 unit, and betting until your losses reach 70 units before increasing another 1 unit, etc. This can be extended quite far using only$.01 betting units.
These are some of the variables I think helpful to test out this system further:
( ) # of cycles
( ) # of spins to track in cycle (like 20, 40, 37, 74, 111)
( ) # of bets to make (2-5 bets seem to work out best so far)
( ) Minimum # of repeats for a number in cycle (ie. For a cycle of 111, must repeat 6 or more times to be considered)
( ) Minimum # of sleepers for a number in cycle(must have 0,1 times to be considered)
( ) Minimum # of numbers to qualify for Dozens/Column bet (needs further testing, if 4 of the numbers picked are in same Dozen, would it be more profitable to bet the Dozen??)
( ) Maximum # of bets to make( to test or set loss limits)
Progression:
( ) Flat Betting ( ) Loss Recovery (Gradually recovers your losses) ( ) GLC Special ??
( ) Loss Limit, Profit Target, Betting Unit, Bankroll or other standard variables
If cycle does not meet minimum requirements, it is re-tracked.
Any other variables you think would be helpful for this bot?
Many Thanks. Nick
Quoteno problem in getting the bet selections to win
How often and whats your longest losing streak?
QuoteIf your bet selection is for 5 numbers, you can bet them for 7 spins totaling 35 unit loss before increasing bet by 1 unit, and betting until your losses reach 70 units before increasing another 1 unit, etc. This can be extended quite far using only$.01 betting units
Been there done that, to me it's looking like the more coverage you have the less losing streaks you will get, over a sample of 40 spins, you will get around on average 23 unique numbers, on average every 4 spins after that will be a new number, I said on average, which means you will have losses to contend with. What I am trying to find is the best amount to backtrack over so the loss streaks are as short as 1 or 2 in a row, we can't use any MM that recovers on the first win while playing that many numbers because when you get 3 or 4 losses in a row the bet is too high, it might not reach the table max BUT it will be a lot of chips, so keeping the bets low is priority.
Quote from: superman on Jul 31, 10:38 AM 2011
Trust me mate, I first test against the random() function of the software I build the bots in, if it passes that then I run it against Playtech and finally onto BV NZ, the results I put in the first post were from BV NZ overnight. I have also in the past run methods against PHP random() too. I always test this way, since RXTreme using it's internal RNG.
Actually I meant if you let a random number generator select the numbers to bet on would the result be any different?
Ah sorry Danny, in short no, that is something I have tried before too, if you did that with whats being discussed you would have the same amount of numbers each time unless you first randomly select an amount of numbers then produce a random set of numbers from that, good idea but you will end up in the same boat, money management! so, in my opinion, it's best to let the RNG you are playing against tell you what to play, that's the theory anyway.
Quote from: superman on Aug 01, 09:03 AM 2011
it's best to let the RNG you are playing against tell you what to play, that's the theory anyway.
I agree. :thumbsup:
But I'm not sure what the theory is. ;D
Superman . . .My longest losing streak was so long my fingers got tired and I stopped counting.
It is very difficult to do this manually and as a former programmer the bot is absolutely the best way to test and develop any system.
I'm convinced that a bot utilizing inside numbers is the best way to tame RNG, whether it be Excel's RandBetween(0,36) or BV's check sum.
You already have a bot testing inside numbers and are in the advanced testing stages of money management which is the heart and soul of most systems.
I would like to develop a similar bot and hopefully solve the money management, which I can't do unless I have something to analyze. But to do so, I was hoping you could help me advise my programmer what variables to be coded and what pit falls to avoid.
For example, we would need a variable for
( ) # of spins in each cycle
you would enter whatever number to be tested (40, 80 spins, 111 etc.) but have you found that the spin cycle(sounds like washing clothes) should be Continuous(spin # 1-40 is a cycle, spin #2-41 is another cycle, 3-42 etc) or Static (spin #1-40 is first cycle then re-track and 41-80 next cycle)? Can I avoid programming for one of these or do we need both?
Any other tips, suggestions for my programmer would be appreciated.
Regarding the money management of your system, it is hard to make any suggestions without knowing the nature of your results. Are they choppy, streaky, balanced? Have you tried a LW Register, or are they applicable to a Divisor 6 or other similar, or would positive progression of a partial parlay that locks in profit, or would a negative progression of a gradual loss recovery be more applicable. I have a gradual loss recovery system for a bot but won't work with a betting unit of $.01 as your next increase is $.02 which is double and that is not gradual. It may work with a betting unit of $.10 or $.25.
I apologize if this is off topic but there is not many members who can assist in programming bots.
Thanks
I don't really want to get into a coding Q & A but if I was you I would psuedo it for your programmer person, write down what you want to put in, IE
track for x
check tracked x for y
if y = > < whatever you think
do this
As I said I am still running tests with different amounts of tracking, so far there is nothing that stands out above anything else as far as hit/loss rate is concerned. I have had good results with tracking 24 also good results with tracking 40 spins, Just working my way up the scale.
If the runs of losses can be kept around 1 or 2 most of the time, the odd 3 or 4 can and will come so the MM again is what really needs concentraing on, as with all bet selections, you can have a 75% strike rate but still have losing runs of 7 or 8, which you know can go up to 9 or 10. I just run until either the bet gets too steep, trying to keep it under 50 units, or it goes t1ts up and then I move on to something else.
I've been here many times before so never get my hopes up to much, we can only test until it not viable then either bin it or shelve it.
Thanks Superman . . . if you need a fresh set of eyes to look at creating a good money management for your inside bet system, just send me some results and be happy to tinker . . . Nick
Bumping this for the new people who might be interested.
Quote from: Fripper on Feb 21, 01:09 PM 2013
Bumping this for the new people who might be interested.
Nice call Fripper. I refer people to this baby all the time when they're interested in labbies.
GLC
An old link may be broken as someone pointed out.
How to play with a labby.
Here's the link:
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=6451.msg60743#msg60743 (link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=6451.msg60743#msg60743)
Hi Fripper, It's good to see interest in this method again.
When trying to increase you odds of winning by playing a standard 2 step or 3 step marty, why not see how a modified 3 step marty performs.
Here's the progression
1,1,2
2,2,4
3,3,6
4,4,8
etc...
The starting number in the 3 bet set will be determined by the labby line.
Of course we would still add the 3 numbers together and divide by 3 for expanding the labby line.
An advantage this might have over the marty is that if you lose the 1st bet and win the 2nd bet, you're even and can re-bet the 1st number in the set again. The same thing for losing the 1st and 2nd bet and winning the 3rd bet in the set. This could really reduce our number of losses in a row.
Granted we only win if we win the 1st bet of a set, but in the long run, this might be acceptable given the fact that we should be able to keep the bet sizes lower.
GLC
Yes GLC, a nice idea.
I know we experimented alot with how to end the labby, because using martingale can be kind a risky. But we tried with many different things, like 2 wins in a row ends the labby, or 3 wins in a row ends the labby etc..
This helps the betting size to stay down, but it takes longer to end the labby.
Hello, this topic attracted my attention. I would like to ask if you play this system and how it goes? Have you lost with it?
Probably dead topic, but... What I understood from studying this system is that at the end of the labby we play martingale, or modified martingale as belgian suggested. What I don't understand is what is the difference between playing martingale (or modified martingale) after doing all those things with labby in comparison to playing martingale (or the modified version) right from the beginning. Maybe there is some difference that I just don't see. Can someone explain?
Quote from: MrG on Apr 19, 05:08 PM 2013
Probably dead topic, but... What I understood from studying this system is that at the end of the labby we play martingale, or modified martingale as belgian suggested. What I don't understand is what is the difference between playing martingale (or modified martingale) after doing all those things with labby in comparison to playing martingale (or the modified version) right from the beginning. Maybe there is some difference that I just don't see. Can someone explain?
The topic is as dead as people make it. There is still many interested in this.
Yes a martingle was one way to end the labby, however there was also a number of different ways to end it. Martingle can as you say, get pretty risky and the bets run away quickly. So it gets down to a personal choice.
I can honestly say that it is a big difference between playing a labby and just a martingale. Try out the horror sessions here in the thread and see what bets you get when playing with the martingale.
Cheers
Fellas,
Just to see how i goes, i tested this with dozen one (1).
need to see how it does with a long sleep of the dozens.
as seen from the last bets, it can get steep sometimes, but then one can split the units so as to continue betting small amounts.
plus, with the 2/1 you don't need to clear the whole labby to be in a new plus.
vundarosa
Quote from: Fripper on Apr 29, 11:29 AM 2013
The topic is as dead as people make it. There is still many interested in this.
Yes a martingle was one way to end the labby, however there was also a number of different ways to end it. Martingle can as you say, get pretty risky and the bets run away quickly. So it gets down to a personal choice.
I can honestly say that it is a big difference between playing a labby and just a martingale. Try out the horror sessions here in the thread and see what bets you get when playing with the martingale.
Cheers
I didnt express myself clear enough. I didnt mean what is the difference in playing those horror sessions with martingale from the beginning, but generaly to start playing roulette with martingale from the beginning. Because if you are ending labby with martingale you can start playing martingale with chip value for example 10 and RFH can happen at that time, because we never know when bad streak can come. But if I play martingale from the beginning, than Im playing with chip value 1 and have still the same chance of RFH but with much lower stakes.
You mention also other ways of ending labby than martingale. Can you describe those ways?
Also if I see correctly you were not able to clear the set of numbers where there are only 65 of one colour in 200 spins. Or you were able to clear it but with very, very high stakes. Have you found a solution to this? I think that in one of the posts here someone showed a possible solution.
Quote from: vundarosa on May 23, 11:41 PM 2013
Fellas,
Just to see how i goes, i tested this with dozen one (1).
need to see how it does with a long sleep of the dozens.
as seen from the last bets, it can get steep sometimes, but then one can split the units so as to continue betting small amounts.
plus, with the 2/1 you don't need to clear the whole labby to be in a new plus.
vundarosa
Not sure I know what you mean. You applied this style of play to playing dozens? Well, to bet only on one dozen?
Quote from: Bayes on Jul 30, 07:06 AM 2011So at least you admit that past spins CAN be an indicator of future results? if that weren't the case what would be the point of 'looking back' at all? Taking your point to its logical conclusion, it might seem that making a faithful record of all spins ever spun on a given wheel might be the key to success!
If past spins don't make sense to you then how do you determine the degrees of SD's ?
SD's are statistical fact, play against it and you'll lose, play for it and you'll win.
The bet limits (spread between min & max) are way lower than variance's limits, even if you could afford a huge BR and willing to risk it all it wouldn't be sufficient.
Consider SD's as the natural effect of variance, it's a force of nature, we don't have to control it but to unleash it!