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Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 07, 04:34 PM 2011
Ok kick this off and I will pick it up 2moz  :xd:

Quote
My thinking is after each treble we bet against another one. AND WE HAVE ONE HELL OF A METHOD. Most wins come instantly.

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 07, 05:25 PM 2011
Hi JohnL,

Sounds OK. Maybe good to check for betting against "horizontal quads" forming also :)

And my suggested progression for this is:
Level One 1-1 (1u on each DOZ)
Level Two 2-2
Level Three 3-3
Level Four 4-4
STOP

Up a level on a loss
If win and behind current recorded bankroll high then stay at same level
If win and level or ahead - restart at level one
If lost at level four - STOP and END SESSION

Bye,
Atlantis.

Quote from: ZigZag on Feb 07, 05:50 PM 2011
Hi John

Just started testing.  

3 2 2 3 3 3 1
3 1 2 3 2 0 2
0 1 2 2 2 1 3 W +1
2 1 2 1 1 2 3 <---- here a line of 4 has formed.  Should I skip that line making my next bet on line 5 under the number 2?

Quote from: ZigZag on Feb 07, 05:50 PM 2011
Hi John

Just started testing.  

3 2 2 3 3 3 1
3 1 2 3 2 0 2
0 1 2 2 2 1 3 W +1
2 1 2 1 1 2 3 <---- here a line of 4 has formed.  Should I skip that line making my next bet on line 5 under the number 2?

Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 07, 06:04 PM 2011
So a quad just counts as a loss and then move on to hunt for next triple. Cool

Quote from: ZigZag on Feb 07, 06:19 PM 2011
I get it now.   Will test tonight  :thumbsup:

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 07, 06:47 PM 2011
To see the advantage/power of betting the opposite after a formation of 3 SAME doz in a row see my tests with my suggested progression in Sekuritati's thread here:

link:://rouletteforum.cc/the-notepad/wait-for-three-consecutive-spins-of-the-same-dosencolumn-system/msg34695/#msg34695 (link:://rouletteforum.cc/the-notepad/wait-for-three-consecutive-spins-of-the-same-dosencolumn-system/msg34695/#msg34695)

It's fairly strong and could be applied to betting against vertical QUADS forming as well.

Hope this helps,

A.

Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 07, 05:46 PM 2011
This is more like it, much simpler for simpletons like me!

So its a matrix 7 x 7?

And we're betting on 2 dozens for a trip not becoming a quad?

Cheers

BW

Quote from: ZigZag on Feb 08, 05:53 AM 2011
Well I did quick test last night.  I don't know what final bet selection will be but I was testing

doubles not to become trips (Vertical)

Trips not to become quads (Horizontal)

98 spins   + 12 flatbet   :thumbsup:

2 times I was only betting on 1 dozen as had 2 triggers on both the vertical and horizontal

Quote from: ZigZag on Feb 08, 05:53 AM 2011
Well I did quick test last night.  I don't know what final bet selection will be but I was testing

doubles not to become trips (Vertical)

Trips not to become quads (Horizontal)

98 spins   + 12 flatbet   :thumbsup:

2 times I was only betting on 1 dozen as had 2 triggers on both the vertical and horizontal

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 08, 06:44 AM 2011

I Know how I want to play it, but I have to let TwisterUK and Atlantis have a say as they've helped get it to this point.

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 08, 03:15 AM 2011

Is this the Final version ?

Trips not to become Quads ?

Do we also bet Quads not to become 5 timers ?

6 timers not to become 7 timers ?

I've only ever seen one 7 timer, and never an 8 (yet)

What staking plan do you use John ?


Nice to see the Vegas Trip is back on !
Virgin fly direct  ;D

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 08, 07:46 AM 2011
Tell me how you want to play it John ?


Also can you answer these questions plz  ;D



Cheers Bud  :thumbsup:

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 08, 09:07 AM 2011
Twister I like Atlantis's idea about betting against quads forming. It will require patience though especially on a live wheel where you can go 50 spins and only get 2 or 3 trebles to bet against. Flat and VERTICAL.

Ok lets test it, and if a Quad hits us then bet it not to become a 5 timer !?!?
Opinions !?!?

That's my only reservation. Whereas betting against doubles becoming trebles has a better qualifying frequency within a 50 or 100 spin frame. We all know the longer the streak, the rarer it is.

Fingers will get burned with that one !!


We may never see a 9 for example vertically or horizontily. The same argument I made with my zone Strategy applies here. I believe there are points random can rarely if ever breach.

Agreed !

While still being realistic. Enough to exploit in a method. YES its time to fess up. I was fender1000 in my former incarnation.

We knew LoL. thanks for sharing with us   ;D

And I'm BACK!

You can sign in to your Fender account, its still there   ;)

I will go into detail about how I think we should apply this. Its special and if we get it right winning is certain... :xd:

I look forward to hearing your views mate   :)

Quote from: ZigZag on Feb 08, 09:24 AM 2011
Hi Twister

Did test late last night and did it a bit wrong.  I have done another test with same numbers here.  I think waiting for vertual loss as a trigger for each bet looks best.  Have to wait and see what Joahn and Atlantis think final version should be.  This was betting without trigger, against trebles (Vertical) and Quads (Horizontal)

                            Tested WITHOUT waiting for a vertual loss

1311231
3222221 Loss (Horizontal) -2
3313333 Win (Vertical) -1 Loss (1Doz) H+V -2
2233122 Win (V) -1
2233222 Loss (V) -3 ------Here I bet on line 6 that the 222 would not form a quad
1123132 W (H) - 2 W (V) -1 W (V) -0 L (V) -2  W (V) -1 L (V) -3
1021223 W (V) -2 W(V) -1
2313332 W (V) - 0 W (V) + 1
1323212
3332331 W (V) +2 W (H) 1 Doz bet +4
3132232 W (V) + 5
3332331 W (V) +6 L (V) +4  W (V) + 5 W (V) + 6 W (V) + 7
1221111 W (V) + 8 (H) + 6
1221202  L (V) + 4 W (V) + 5 W (V) +6
           
                                 End + 6

Sorry miss calculated was + 6 at the end was late night test and had a few beers  :wink:

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 08, 09:53 AM 2011


Do we even need 7 misses playing this way ? As we need the doubles to form to make the trips etc etc

, wait for a vertical Treble and bet against the Quad. If you get hit then bet againt the 5 timer. I would even go so far to say that if you get hit by a 5 timer bet against the 6 timer.

that's only a 3 step, we could make it a 4 step !?!?


We are keeping it just vertical right ?

Quote from: Post on Feb 08, 11:26 AM 2011
What would be the progression for betting against a triple to became a quad ?

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 08, 11:15 AM 2011
Yes there's no one who posts quite like me is there? LoL! Can't remember the email for the old fender1000 Twister that why I'm johnlegend now.

Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 08, 12:08 PM 2011
Or you could play the progression 1,3,9,27 on 4 triples not becoming 4 quads in a row instead. The odds are probably the same for hitting a 7 timer. Its all good

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 08, 11:55 AM 2011

I can PM it to you if you want it ?

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 08, 12:12 PM 2011
Yes most likely

I think I might prefer 4 Trips not to become a Quad


I have seen a 7 Timer, but not 4 Quads in a row. Infact I've not seen more than 2 Quads in a 5x10 or a 7x7



Opinions !?!?

Quote from: Post on Feb 08, 11:26 AM 2011
What would be the progression for betting against a triple to became a quad ?

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 08, 12:12 PM 2011
Yes most likely

I think I might prefer 4 Trips not to become a Quad


I have seen a 7 Timer, but not 4 Quads in a row. Infact I've not seen more than 2 Quads in a 5x10 or a 7x7



Opinions !?!?

QuoteI'm not trying to be a nay say-er, I'm just wanting us to consider this perspective.  It seems to me that what we're really trying to do is find a way to bet the above case so that we come out ahead more and we lose.  Is it because somehow  we have found a trend to follow?  It just don't see that here

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 08, 12:48 PM 2011
I second that TWISTERUK its rarer than 5 losing streaks of 9 or more forming in my old Zone method. The difference and beauty is their crystal clear in front of you in the format of the MATRIX The progression is straight forward too.

Quote from: ZigZag on Feb 08, 01:45 PM 2011


I have seen a 7 Timer, but not 4 Quads in a row.  Infact I've not seen more than 2 Quads in a 5x10 or a 7x7



Opinions !?!?




When you say you have seen a 7 timer.  Do you mean you seen 7 separate triples in a row verticaly?

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 08, 02:31 PM 2011
Just played my first session

1st Trip became a Quad -2

2nd Trip became a Quad -8

3rd Trip did not become a Quad +1


Session end +1

Quote from: GLC on Feb 08, 02:38 PM 2011
Twister,

How many spins did all that take.  As much as I hate sitting thru spins waiting for some trigger to develop, I think betting against  verticle trips not to become quads is the safest way to play this.

I'm also very leery of betting horizontally since I've seen many dozens sleep for a long, long time.

G

Quote from: GLC on Feb 08, 02:38 PM 2011
Twister,
How many spins did all that take.  As much as I hate sitting thru spins waiting for some trigger to develop, I think betting against  verticle trips not to become quads is the safest way to play this.
I'm also very leery of betting horizontally since I've seen many dozens sleep for a long, long time.
G

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 08, 03:13 PM 2011
Maybe have a separate progression for the horizontal/vertical?
2 separate banks - same progression?

A.

Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 08, 03:15 PM 2011
Its a good idea A

Has anyone seen 4 vertical or horizontal quads in one 7x7  matrix?

Quote from: ZigZag on Feb 08, 01:45 PM 2011


I have seen a 7 Timer, but not 4 Quads in a row.  Infact I've not seen more than 2 Quads in a 5x10 or a 7x7



Opinions !?!?




When you say you have seen a 7 timer.  Do you mean you seen 7 separate triples in a row verticaly?

Quote from: Post on Feb 08, 03:23 PM 2011
Just played the vertical method of quads forming welll I did 250 spins of a real session and only reached the last progression once and won it.

i play like you said wait for a triple and then bet it for not becoming a quad but I only made 13+ in 250 spins is that few or is it just a bad session ?

Quote from: Post on Feb 08, 03:23 PM 2011
Just played the vertical method of quads forming welll I did 250 spins of a real session and only reached the last progression once and won it.

i play like you said wait for a triple and then bet it for not becoming a quad but I only made 13+ in 250 spins is that few or is it just a bad session ?

Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 08, 03:29 PM 2011
Sounds typical enough to me. You reached the last progression already though. I'm wary that one loss would take so long to make back.

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 08, 03:34 PM 2011
BW, I was basing my calcs on the 1-1,2-2,3-3,4-4 prog = 20u max

A.

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 08, 03:34 PM 2011
BW, I was basing my calcs on the 1-1,2-2,3-3,4-4 prog = 20u max

A.

Quote from: Post on Feb 08, 03:38 PM 2011
Your progression has 8 stages do you think it would even happen 8 quads after each other  :o

Quote from: Post on Feb 08, 03:38 PM 2011
Your progression has 8 stages do you think it would even happen 8 quads after each other  :o

Quote from: Post on Feb 08, 03:23 PM 2011
Just played the vertical method of quads forming welll I did 250 spins of a real session and only reached the last progression once and won it.

i play like you said wait for a triple and then bet it for not becoming a quad but I only made 13+ in 250 spins is that few or is it just a bad session ?

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 08, 03:45 PM 2011
On you just went 13 up against the unbeatable one, and you call it a bad session. Here is what id do if youve won several times in one or two steps of the progression, common sense should tell you going to be pushed to step three or four soon. What you now do if you want to play 400--500 spins is wait four one quad then start betting. I am so patient I. MAY DO THIS ANYWAY. FIVE QUADS IN A ROW? There is more chance of Bill Gates knocking at your door tomorrow and handing you a cheque for $1 BILLION DOLLARS. With the one Trigger stipulation. MATRIX VERTICAL IS THE ONE, ATLANTIS, TWISTERUK what do you think??????? ??? ???

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 08, 03:50 PM 2011
With the one Trigger stipulation it would be bomb proof in my opinion

5 Quads in a row ?

I've only ever seen 2

But I do have limited data

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 08, 03:54 PM 2011
Hi Post,

I can only speak for the horizontals where I bet against triple forming a quad in my test here:

link:://rouletteforum.cc/the-notepad/wait-for-three-consecutive-spins-of-the-same-dosencolumn-system/msg34695/#msg34695 (link:://rouletteforum.cc/the-notepad/wait-for-three-consecutive-spins-of-the-same-dosencolumn-system/msg34695/#msg34695)


Level One 1-1 (1u on each DOZ)
Level Two 2-2
Level Three 3-3
Level Four 4-4
STOP

Up a level on a loss
If win and behind current recorded bankroll high then stay at same level
If win and level or ahead - restart at level one
If lost at level four - STOP and END SESSION

But if used same thing for the VERTICAL with separate bank scenario you could maybe make some units between them both and quit.

A.

Quote from: Post on Feb 08, 04:14 PM 2011
Just a question how many times does it happen 5 quads in a row ?

Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Feb 08, 04:45 PM 2011
I'm testing it in real play 3 days now with
more then 100% winning ratio,playing vertical and horizontal
at the same time,and the best triggers are when both bets required
topping same dozen.Incredible.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 08, 05:06 PM 2011
Buff 5 QUADS IN A ROW, could it happen? YES in relation to how often it WON'T. 1000S TO ONE. I've gone back to the start of 2010. And with a fine tooth comb. I've found one run of four Quads. that's the bad news. The good news by the time you've lost one bank of 80 you'd have been up 1,247. Then after that to this day you've. Made another 2,089 points. So that's 3,336-80. If you don't think that's impressive. I don't think you impress. And that's for 4 quads. I'm going to be playing against 5.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 08, 05:06 PM 2011
Buff 5 QUADS IN A ROW, could it happen? YES in relation to how often it WON'T. 1000S TO ONE. I've gone back to the start of 2010. And with a fine tooth comb. I've found one run of four Quads. that's the bad news. The good news by the time you've lost one bank of 80 you'd have been up 1,247. Then after that to this day you've. Made another 2,089 points. So that's 3,336-80. If you don't think that's impressive. I don't think you impress. And that's for 4 quads. I'm going to be playing against 5.

Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 08, 05:18 PM 2011
Why play for 5 when the results are so impressive with 4? Also, you won't be waiting around for so long.
What progression will you use as well john?
Thanks

Buffalo

Quote from: ZigZag on Feb 08, 04:54 PM 2011
Its bloody fantastic when you get a double bet on that single dozen and it hits!  :xd:

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 08, 05:45 PM 2011
I don't like losing at all Buff, with 5 quads yes I will have to wait longer, but I'll bet playing Twisters staking but for two points per win so (2--6--18--54x2) Every 100 wins I raise it by a unit. If 4 QUADS WINS even 300 to 1. Then 5 QUADS MAY DO 600 to 1. And remember, I'm being conservative here. MATRIX 50/49 has made me 6,052 units to date. I can risk a few hundred on the ONE.

Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Feb 08, 05:36 PM 2011
OFCOURSE IT COULD HAPPEN.HAVE A LOOK MY TODAYS SPREADSHEET.

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 08, 06:09 PM 2011
FLAT,
Are you playing for OR against the quads forming both horiz and vert?
What progression are you using?
A.

Quote from: GLC on Feb 08, 06:22 PM 2011
Guys,

I've been looking at trying to get more bets in fewer spins without compromising our strike rate and I think I have the solution.

What is so sacred about the triples being vertical?  Why can't we bet for triples on a slant also.  Look at this:

1233231
1321323
3112131
2213 <--right here we could bet against a quat forming, and in 2 more bets we could bet against the 3rd dozen forming a quad.
We could even go the opposite slant that would give us 3 options for placing bets.

I've tested it a little and it seems to work just as well as strictly vertical.

What do you think?

George      

Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Feb 08, 06:21 PM 2011
Neither...am waiting for 5 virtuals unmatched,either vertical or horizontal,then start betting for a match,which is very evident from my yesterday spreadsheet where I thickened borders of winning bets.
And am betting required dozen as 2 lines witu progress;

2  2   4-    8+
2  2   8-    4+
3  3   14-  4+
5  5   24-  6+
8  8   40-  8+
12 12 64  8+................stop-loss 64.
haven't lost in 3 days as yet.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 08, 06:49 PM 2011
EVERYONE I've DONE IT. The MATRIX CROSS IS THE HOLYGRAIL LITERALLY. It will never FORM!!!! ;D :o ;D

Quote from: GLC on Feb 08, 06:22 PM 2011
Guys,

I've been looking at trying to get more bets in fewer spins without compromising our strike rate and I think I have the solution.

What is so sacred about the triples being vertical?  Why can't we bet for triples on a slant also.  Look at this:

1233231
1321323
3112131
2213 <--right here we could bet against a quat forming, and in 2 more bets we could bet against the 3rd dozen (greens) forming a quad.
We could even go the opposite slant that would give us 3 options for placing bets.

I've tested it a little and it seems to work just as well as strictly vertical.

What do you think?

George      

Quote from: warrior on Feb 08, 06:55 PM 2011
form what ?

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 08, 06:49 PM 2011
EVERYONE I've DONE IT. The MATRIX CROSS IS THE HOLYGRAIL LITERALLY. It will never FORM!!!! ;D :o ;D

QuoteYou see DOZEN THREE has formed a perfect cross. We bet AGAINST THAT OCCURING. Its too perfect for RANDOM. There's your grail right there.. ;D

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 08, 07:18 PM 2011
Form this Warrior how are you?

3123113
2223232
1023312
3333333
2123212
3313222
1223112

You see DOZEN THREE has formed a perfect cross. We bet AGAINST THAT OCCURING. Its too perfect for RANDOM. There's your grail right there.. ;D

Quote from: chrisbis on Feb 08, 09:03 PM 2011
I'm Still awake George!!

---

@Johnlegend

Forgive my intrusion into the H.G's laird, but surly you're looking at the formation of the cross in Hindsight are you not?

Here's your "CROSS" list as seen earlier.

3123113
2223232
1023312
3333333
2123212
3313222
1223112

Now then, look at like this for a moment:-

3123113
2223232
1023312

So, the bold numbers, show the early signs of a formation of a "CROSS" (one leg)

But how would you bet from here?

From the vertical play, one would now be going out to play for the "QUAD" that might drop in on the next line?

Looking for a cross to NOT-BEAR, is going to be very difficult, unless your at this next -Fortunate position!

3123113
2223232
1023312
3333333

Now then, I could agree at this juncture, the risk to BR is reducing, if one played to not see a "CROSS".

But if you got to here:-

3123113
2223232
1023312
3333333
2123212

What would you do then John?

Chance in a million million maybe?

It seems easy to plan NOT to bet on something, but it might just happen...... or not happen!!

Quote from: Post on Feb 09, 01:15 AM 2011
So john legend what should we do bet against 5 quads or against a row of a single number in the matrix of witch I already saw a 7 in a row.

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 09, 04:37 AM 2011
I must have missed something then...
OK. I'm ready to playtest. John, Please post the FULL rules for the matrix vertical so we can begin testing and post our results.

A.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 09, 06:27 AM 2011
Full rules coming later today, only reason they're not here right now is Twister and Atlantis have helped me focus, and get close to the finished article. So I feel they deserve a say. Ill draft how I think we should apply it at take advice and criticism from them if they feel it can be improved. Later...Got 6 sessions to play... 8)

Quote from: superman on Feb 09, 06:53 AM 2011
OK botted it, I am working on 3 not becoming 4, or have the rules changed yet again?

Result file attached.

Quote from: superman on Feb 09, 06:53 AM 2011
OK botted it, I am working on 3 not becoming 4, or have the rules changed yet again?
Result file attached.

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 09, 07:03 AM 2011

@twister: I confirm your rule waiting for quad to form first is nice idea. Also agree with about the 0 breaking the chain and necessitation of reformation of triple... Another good one!

A.

Quote from: GLC on Feb 08, 06:36 PM 2011
F,

It means that when we have a dozen that has formed a 3 times in a row, we are betting that when we come to that location in the next line, the dozen won't hit again for a what we're calling a quad or 4 times.

Example:

1231123
2311231
3231232
232 <-- right here looking up the lines we have 3  first dozen hits so we bet on the 2nd and 3rd dozen hoping that there won't be 4  1st dozens in a row vertically.

Let me know if that's not clear.

G

Quotewaiting for quad to form first is nice idea.

QuoteAlso agree with about the 0 breaking the chain and necessitation of reformation of triple

Quote from: Josip on Feb 09, 05:07 AM 2011

That would be nice to have the whole FULL rules for the matrix vertical and that everyone try this baby with the same rules so we can see how it maintains on diferent wheels. . .

Everyone has their own rule and I lost in all this.  

In any case, praise the author for the idea . . .  it would be wonderful to have a tracker for this system to verify its core.  For example as one from Ophis but I now that this is much easier to be track manual for now.

Quoteand it tank as any other

QuoteRandom has a border its the number.7 inside the Matrix

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 09, 06:29 AM 2011

The only rule I think will be different from you than me and that's the Zero. For me it kills that column dead at that point until it becomes a new Trip. I don't use the number above the Zero

Other than that I think we are down with it, including the stipulation of wait for one Quad.

Quote from: superman on Feb 09, 08:32 AM 2011
Agreed, using visual stimulation of noted results is the same as watching the colour changes on a marquee and "thinking" you are seeing repeating patterns, of course you are seeing the patterns but nothing stops them from changing, and, stating random will never do this or that is a bad interpretation of possible events.

I doubt it, RNG random may have some limits, we have yet to find them, and comparing a column of results 7x7 isn't going to reach those so called limits, real wheels physics has no limits that's a certain.

Its all eye candy, you may sail along for months before the inevitable happens.

Some people need to be careful as newbies will lose money on these sorts of statements.

@ Fender, the zone was the dangly bits until you realised, then you went AWOL for months, some newer members didn't have the pleasure of seeing the zone, you only realised after many many people said they hit walls/losses then you vanished. You must have realised too.

Your enthusiasm is too much for the newbies, they will think this is a method it is not.

I request moderation of the thread to warn newer members that no method created by visual interpretation can work long term and NOT knowing when the bad run will come has risks to your bankroll.

Just my 10cents as usual, be careful out there

Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 09, 09:56 AM 2011
Warrior,

1,3,9,27    risk = 80 units

Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 09, 10:08 AM 2011
Twister,

Are you only playing vertically?

(Or whilst lying down?  I'll get my coat)

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 09, 10:35 AM 2011
Well still not sure on the full rules yet but decided to give a shot anyhow...
Playing against vertical trebles becoming quads only - with 0 rule and trigger loss first.

91 spins 7x13lines matrix

Result (using 1,3,9,27 prog) = +5
6 games: W1, W1, L2, W3, W1, W1; Highest Bet=3

Result (using 1,2,3,4 prog) = +4
6 games: W1, W1, L2, W2, W1, W1; Highest Bet=2

A.

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 09, 11:02 AM 2011
@John

What will be your staking levels ?


Also what RNG are you going to use ?


Make sure you give us the juicy breakdown of your results !!!

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 09, 10:55 AM 2011
You've got it Atlantis. To put the doubters at ease I am going to suggest newbies use your staking plan, please explain how it works.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 09, 11:21 AM 2011
I'm playing for 2pts person win Twister.
Total risk is 160 pts, 2,6,18,54x2=160
So I need 80 wins to match a bank. Have made 32 points so far from 5 sessions.

Here's the funny part Twister. How many 7x7 sessions do you even see with 5Quads?? Not many right? That's why Matrix Vertical is going to defy the mathematicians. There will always be trebles. But Quads themselves don't often form more than 3 Or 4 in the MATRIX 49. And that's seldom consecutive. I have never been this confident. But I'll try to contain myself In that 7x7 format. LoL!

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 09, 11:21 AM 2011
Hi John,
The 1-2-3-4 step progression is not as good as the 80u progression because you don't always make a profit when you win at all levels.
Basically when you win - you stay at the same level for the next bet if you're still losing otherwise if you're level or ahead you restart from step 1.
If you lose you move up to the next level for the next bet.
You STOP if losing the 4th bet.
The drawback is that you don't always return to step 1 after each winning bet because the profit may not be enough to clear any previous accrued debit - so you play on at the same level - but with less steps available in order to secure the needed win -- unless, that is,  you extend the progression to e.g.:

1,2,3,4,5,6,7.....

but you need to be sure the system has a pretty good strike rate to do that.

A.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 09, 11:41 AM 2011
Thankyou Atlantis, The strike-rate is AWESOME. Ãâ,¬n RNG could decode the ZONE 1 out of every 10 or so sessions played even in practice mode. After 39 .sessions it hasn't even had one 4 loss Atlantis. Its simply not getting enough time to decode the MATRIX. And you know why? Because its designed to oppose layout players. It almost like that 80s movie WAR GAMES where they get the computer to play a game of tic tac toe. The computer doesn't know it can't win.

Matrix Vertical is saying to the computer in an RNG your want to beat me DECODE THIS. And because its not getting long enough it can't. Rules in 90 mins guys I'm out to eat.. :P :P

Quote
It almost like that 80s movie WAR GAMES where they get the computer to play a game of tic tac toe. The computer doesn't know it can't win.

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 09, 12:10 PM 2011
JohnL/fender1000 wrote:
:)

Hey  - It is a bit like the popular game "CONNECT 4" - except the computer loses!
link:://:.mathsisfun.com/games/connect4.html (link:://:.mathsisfun.com/games/connect4.html)

A.

Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Feb 09, 02:58 PM 2011
Just had a short session in my local casino/5 min.walk/
and want you all to look it very closely.
Am betting vertical/horiz.also/plus on certain patterns that forms.
Also have a look 5 and 6 quads forming in this short session.

Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 09, 02:12 PM 2011
1 point john,

if you win on after a trigger quad, do you then retrack for another virtual loss (another quad) before recommencing the bet?

Thanks

BW

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 09, 03:04 PM 2011
that's a good?  Buff, If you're being true to the rules, No. That trigger makes this method virtually bomb proof thus far. Nobody has seen a 5 quad Buff so we really don't know yet how special Matrix vertical is.

I think its worth the wait. What if it turns out that waiting for that trigger assures you a strike rate of 1,000/1--2,000/1--3,000/1--20,000/ we just don't know at the. Moment. I does know that if id played this method from the start of 2010. I Would be over 4,000 wins and Zero losses right now. How'd you like that trade?

Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Feb 09, 03:12 PM 2011
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT;Nobody has seen 5 quads ......are you reading other posts.Just scanned my short session....And have a good look man.

Quote from: ScoobyDoo on Feb 09, 03:05 PM 2011
I'm thinking of having the trigger to bet be quite easy to find within a matrix but then have TWO or MORE conditions that have to happen at the same time to lose your bet series.

The Cross that I mentioned in the above post, you only needed two dozens to be in the right places as a trigger but then you needed two different conditions to happen at the same time in order to lose your betting series, one being a vertical quad in the  middle row and other, a horizontal triple located at the right place on the Cross.

I'm thinking that we can find even more conditions that have to be met to lose while still having an easily found trigger.

Just a thought...

Scooby Doo

Quote from: Post on Feb 09, 03:25 PM 2011
Just have a question doesn't it takes to long to wait for a trigger quad every time you want to start a new betting round.

But still if its bullet proof you can raise the stakes so much if you want  :D

Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Feb 09, 03:12 PM 2011
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT;Nobody has seen 5 quads ......are you reading other posts.Just scanned my short session....And have a good look man.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 09, 03:30 PM 2011
Yes Flat but its not likely you get that in a set MATRIX. I could tag two of my sessions together and get a 5 or 6 quad flowing over the borders of the Matrix.

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 09, 03:21 PM 2011
Hi F,

I think fender means he has yet to see the formation of 5 consecutive vertical quads occur.

A.

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 09, 03:21 PM 2011
Hi F,

I think fender means he has yet to see the formation of 5 consecutive vertical quads occur.

A.

Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Feb 09, 03:52 PM 2011
Sorry don't get you A.Are you meaning 5x5=25???
Fender????I didn't know that,as I have a great respect to this guy,but
how come JG then.

Quote from: Post on Feb 09, 04:20 PM 2011
And still if you lose that bet you can still bet on a row of 6 quads with 81 on each dozen  :D
Never bet on 1/2 bet no matter circumstances.

Quote from: GLC on Feb 09, 04:02 PM 2011
For all us guys over 60, I'm going to recount the basic system and see if I understand it.  Maybe not every detail listed, but the basics.

I wait until I have a dozen hit 4 times vertically.
Now I wait until I have a dozen hit 3 times vertically.  Once this happens I bet, at the right location, 1 unit on each of the other 2 dozens. If I lose: I wait for another 3 dozens to form vertically and then I bet, at the right location, 3 units on each of the other 2 dozens.  If I lose, that will have been 3 quads formed in a row.  Next I wait for a dozen to  form 3 times vertically and I bet, at the right location, 9 units on the other 2 dozens.  If I lose, that will be 4 quads that have formed and so far JL hasn't seen a 5th one in 14,000,000 sessions, so not matter how much I bet, I'm taking it to the bank.  But since I'm a conservative sort of guy, I wait until a dozen forms 3 times vertically and then I bet, at the right location, 27 units on each of the other 2 dozens.  As soon as I place my bet I hold out my hand to the dealer to pay me because............

Is this pretty much to core of the system, (minus the fun stuff).

George

Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 09, 04:47 PM 2011
If it's even 81/1 then the games beaten

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 09, 04:42 PM 2011
Uh well yes George, but where did you get 14,000,000 sessions from. All I want from this George is about 500 units won to every bank of 80 lost. That's a good tradeoff anyone should be happy with that. At present we don't know the strike because no-ones seen one yet INSIDE A MATRIX. What if random can't do it. Just like it can't do all 37 numbers in 37 spins. We don't know. But we could make a nice stack finding out. Is 5 QUADS a limit for Random. Like 37 in 37 is? If its even 500/1 the games beaten....

Quote from: GLC on Feb 09, 11:52 PM 2011
Sorry, JL.  You have to take some of what I write with a sense of humor.  The number 14,000,000 was just hyperbole for a good number more units won than possible units lost.  Being from Oklahoma, I always like to interject a little levity in my posts.  I don't mean to undermine the seriousness of this thread.  Just having some fun while explaining to a friend how to play the system.

I'm always trying to see if a martingale will work on a system because it returns the most units won per spin if it doesn't hit too often.  And this is  a pure 4 step martingale for 2 dozens.  I've seen a lot of martingales work quite well for a long period of time just to finally fail completely.

I'm always reminded of F_LAT_INO's run using a martingale type bet on the dozens and after winning for years with a system, it finally went bad and took back $112,000 or somewhere in that area.  You can imagine that after winning for years, it's hard to believe you need a stop-loss until you've given back a really big chunk.

You're right to warn everybody to test this thing and go into it with their eyes wide open recognizing that after everything is said and done, we are gambling.  We're just trying to shift the odds our way a little. 

I have to say that this looks like it's a winner.  The unknown variable is your previous spins that indicate that 5 quads in a row only happen once in hundreds of sessions.  If that's true, then this is the one.  It's still possible that you have gathered a very lucky series of spins.  Remember, there is always someone who has unbelievable luck out there, and you may be him.

So, let's test until we're all convinced this is a long term winner.  Let's start with small enough units that we can build a substantial bankroll, but let's always be alert to the fact that something totally unexpected can happen at any time.

Cheers,

George

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 08, 03:45 PM 2011
Oh you just went 13 up against the unbeatable one, and you call it a bad session. Here is what id do if youve won several times in one or two steps of the progression, common sense should tell you that you're going to be pushed to step three or four soon. What you now do if you want to play 400--500 spins is wait four one quad then start betting. I am so patient I MAY DO THIS ANYWAY. FIVE QUADS IN A ROW? There is more chance of Bill Gates knocking at your door tomorrow and handing you a cheque for $1 BILLION DOLLARS. With the one Trigger stipulation. MATRIX VERTICAL IS THE ONE, ATLANTIS, TWISTERUK what do you think??????? ??? ???

Quote from: vundarosa on Feb 10, 06:31 AM 2011

by the way, are we still containing this to a 7x7 matrix, meaning that after 49 spins we start a new section or do we just keep going betting as triggers come, against quads to form?


vundarosa

Quote from: Post on Feb 10, 08:20 AM 2011
I just tested over 1200 real spins and waiting for a quad before betting I was +13 after the 1200 spins is this few or am I doing it wrong ?

Quote from: Post on Feb 10, 08:20 AM 2011
I just tested over 1200 real spins and waiting for a quad before betting I was +13 after the 1200 spins is this few or am I doing it wrong ?

Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 10, 09:08 AM 2011
I think that would be the 'true' way of playing it, yes...wait for a virtual after every win.
It would be negating the whole premise if you didn't, I think.

Not all bad though, after all, your units could potentially be Ã,£100 each, giving you Ã,£1300 total. 1200 spins doesn't seem so much then does it?

Quote from: vundarosa on Feb 10, 11:04 AM 2011
"but it takes so long to have the same number of bet opportunities compared to a 2 becoming 3, that we think we're better off waiting for the rarer event."

=======

My feelings exactly. It takes just too long to get a betting opportunity that unless you are a high $/unit player the profits are not soo attractive compared to the number of hours spent playing.

John, why do you thing the Matrix Vertical is superior to the Matrix49? In M49 one is betting way more frequently and the still at a decent win rate.


Vundarosa

Quote from: irishrob on Feb 10, 12:21 PM 2011
My next test wasn't that good. The zero caused me 4 losses.
I'm still testing recorded live wheel
308 spins--> +26 units profit and -80 units loss = -54 units loss

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 10, 12:36 PM 2011
Irish rob 4 losses 26 points in only 308 spins, you're doing something wrong I can't open your files please explain exactly how you play...

Quote from: Post on Feb 10, 12:40 PM 2011
John legend this system could just really make you a legend you know  :o

because if it proves to be as good as we think it is and we trust we can just multiply the progression by 10 it wont matter still have al lot of testing to do.

the average is really 1 unit every 100 spins but that could aso become 100 units every 100 spins. I am going to test some more now ;)

Quote from: Post on Feb 10, 01:01 PM 2011
You are doing nothing wrong but like you saw 7 pointers do happen. I like to bet against 5 quads in a row. first you wait for a quad to appear if so wait for a triple and bet against it becoming a quad if lose wait for another triple.

you use standerd dozen progression 1-1 3-3 9-9   27-27

and if win wait for another quad before betting.

the averge is 1 unit every 100 spins if you use the progression of 80 if it turns out te be as good as we think we just raise the stakes. ;)

Quote
I did some homework. And nailed it down. Now we have a method that can make a mockery of random, take RNG apart and will have mathematicians dusting off their books and scratching their heads

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 10, 01:32 PM 2011
Seems to me a good way to test could be use of a Windows database?

You'd set up the fields first something like this:
#spun. 1st. #spun. 2nd. #spun. 3rd. #spun. 4th. #spun. 5th. #spun. 6th. #spun. 7th.

#spun. would have a cell formula to print a random number from 0-36

The 1st. 2nd. 3rd. series etc... would be filled with comparison formulae to see which doz it belonged to e.g.:
>0 and <13 for doz1 etc... and then print the 1,2 or 3 in the column or 0 if =0 were true.

Then some kind of way to identify quads and triples (by comparing cells above and below) & to highlight and count 'em

You could get results easily for literally THOUSANDS of spins.

It's beyond me I'm afraid, but I am sure someone out there knows how to do this without much trouble either.

A.

Quote from: ScoobyDoo on Feb 10, 01:41 PM 2011
Hi Guys,

Just did a test using a 7-wide matrix. I had no quad showing until the 13th row down. If I bet there would be no 5th match, I would have won however, I had no betting opportunity until row 17. There I had two triples side-by-side that did not turn into quads, giving me two wins. That was on row 17 down on a 7-across matrix before a win. (Spin 99 & 100)

There must be a way to win MORE than 2-units in a 2 1/2 session but what is it???

I did this test on Bodog.com (RGN) Even finding a triple was difficult.



Scooby Doo

Quote from: irishrob on Feb 10, 01:13 PM 2011
Hi Post,

So you think I'm playing it correctly, I just wasn't too lucky?  :)

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 10, 01:54 PM 2011
Irishrob, you're supposed to have the luck of the Irish. No seriously if you want to be against a single vertical column. BET AGAINST A NINE OCCURRING.

I've never even seen an Eight. So you will require (Heres that word again) PATIENCE to wait for a 5 to form then off you go. Always remember the longer the streak the rarer it is...

Quote from: irishrob on Feb 10, 01:59 PM 2011
Thanks John for your advise, but would you mind to show me how you play it?

Robert

Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Feb 10, 02:06 PM 2011
Johnlegend,,
Aprox.-how many betting opportunites could occure
in about 350-400 spins of night B&L session.
Thanks for your answer.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 10, 02:09 PM 2011
3
3
3
3
3=TRIGGER
3
2=WIN---------USING THE CLASSIC 1,3,9,27 progression. It might be as good (almost) as 5 QUADS. Again to anyone who thinks beating the unbeatable is a drop in win in a few minutes then carry on with your life affair. Think again...One of the reasons the myth exists that roulette is unbeatable in the long haul. Is the humans that play it. They aren't prepared for the LONG WAIT.

I already sense the frustration and impatience creeping in here. Don't let it. Once you realize MATRIX VERTICAL has the game beaten and delivers a strike far beyond the necessary 81/80. You will once you rack up at least 3 betting banks of winnings. Be able to play for two points a win (like I am) Then 3. Up to a recommended 10 max. Remember Casino's have this little insurance policy called HOUSE LIMIT. And with the VERTICAL MATRIX they are going to need it... :o :o :o :o

Quote from: irishrob on Feb 10, 02:21 PM 2011
Sorry John, I meant to show me how YOU play it. I thought that you wait for 4, not 5 same "numbers". Can you show me/play say 100 spins, so then I could test the same way you play. Thanks for your time.

Robert

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 10, 02:19 PM 2011
Hi F_LAT_INO I don't fully understand your question. What is night B&L???

Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Feb 10, 02:31 PM 2011
Real live with dealers casino,and night session
is usually about 350 to 400 spins.That is for us that don't play on line and RNG.

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 10, 02:33 PM 2011
Played Six Sessions today


Profit +6


Never once in trouble


Bomb Proof  ;D

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 10, 02:37 PM 2011
Its my main MAN LoL! Hey twister always remember, you saw it on the horizon. Atlantis saw AC/DC. And I nicked the silver surfers board and landed in Washington D.C to hand the mathematicians a beating they'll never recover from. Chuckles  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 10, 02:40 PM 2011
Hey Twister,

Are you seeing an average amount of spins per betting opportunity? Also, are you playing RNG or live wheel?

Cheers

BW

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 10, 02:46 PM 2011

I've played both.

RNG is faster (BV NZ)

It depends mate, I've had 3 winning bets in 100 spins, other times its 1 bet in 100



Its all good  ;D

Quote from: roulettenerd on Feb 10, 02:29 PM 2011
Hi George
where in Oklahoma are you from?

I live in Okie

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 10, 02:35 PM 2011
I cannot give you an exact betting frequency F_LAT_TINO. To be honest MATRIX VERTICAL on a bricks and mortar live wheel would be very hard work. They are so darn slow. Is there no way you can access an online RNG or Live Wheel. What is with this attitude in the states anyway. I thought you are supposed to be the land of the free. Except for gambling???

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 10, 02:46 PM 2011

I've played both.

RNG is faster (BV NZ)

It depends mate, I've had 3 winning bets in 100 spins, other times its 1 bet in 100



Its all good  ;D

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 10, 02:57 PM 2011
Don't rush success people remember winning is supposed to bet **LUCK** Try doing a clint EASTWOOD to àn RNG it will send you home with a face like a pug dog chewing a hornets nest  :o :o

Quote from: GLC on Feb 10, 02:53 PM 2011
roulettenerd,

Good to see some real class on this forum.  (Just kidding.  Don't all you guys who aren't from Oklahoma get in a big huff.)

I'm grew up in Guthrie.  Graduated from High School in 1967.  Attended college at Central State College.

Good luck on finding a roulette system that wins long term.  I'm still not convinced on this one.

JohnLegend has won 28 times, but he's still not ahead of a single loss.  I have played a lot of systems where I bet 2 dozens with the same progression and have won hundreds of times before hitting a few losses close together to wake me up to reality.

Look at this system and you'll see what I mean:

link:://turbogenius.webs.com/4spinsequencesystem.htm (link:://turbogenius.webs.com/4spinsequencesystem.htm)

Good Luck my friend.

George

Quote from: irishrob on Feb 10, 03:23 PM 2011
Sorry for this funny question, but what is 5 QUAD?
Is it like this?

1
1
1
1
1

Or is it like this?

1    3   1   2   3
1    3   1   2   3
1    3   1   2   3
1    3   1   2   3

Quote from: flukey luke on Feb 10, 03:17 PM 2011
If you want to do some speed testing with this.......

go to random.org

look for free services.

Go to integer generator.

type in for 100 numbers.
integer between 1-3.
format in 7 columns.

simples.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 10, 03:32 PM 2011
YES THE BOTTOM. ONE, but not paralel only consecutive I seen one 4 QUAD, but 5?? How rare is it. We need a supreme NUMBER CRUNCHER...

Quote from: Post on Feb 10, 03:53 PM 2011
Is there a zero in the mix?

Quote from: flukey luke on Feb 10, 04:00 PM 2011
No, but to be fair, this could be as close to a simulation on BV as you are going to get.

ok Atlantis, I was assuming that you wait for a dozen to come 5 times in a vertical fashion and then use a 1,3,9,27 progression for it not to hit another 4 times in succession.
There are too many different methods and rules flying around.  :xd:

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 10, 03:56 PM 2011
Hi Fluke,

No - that is not FULL loss as far as I can see! We only bet the triple 3 to NOT become a quad ONE time and then wait for an entirely NEW triple to form when the 3's have stopped coming.. Yes the bet did lose though.

A.

Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 10, 04:17 PM 2011
John,

If you get a quad form in a 7x7, but no triples, do you just carry on, extending the matrix and wait for a triple to appear?
Thanks

BW

Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Feb 10, 04:13 PM 2011
My dear people.
You are not talking of playing roulette here, but of some
RIDDLE GAMES that kidds are playing in schools.
No offence meant but pls.wake up to reality.

Quote from: irishrob on Feb 10, 04:39 PM 2011
I know we could play it on column as well at the same time.

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 10, 04:53 PM 2011
S'pose you could play 2 MATRIX VERTICAL in tandem - with separate bankrolls of course. One for COLUMNS; one for DOZENS
I have not tried that yet - Interesting...
(You could not use the 40u progression on COLUMNS though)

A.

Quote from: irishrob on Feb 10, 04:39 PM 2011
Just a quick calculation:
John, I think you said that we can get about 4 spins/minute on RNG, and so far the average profit is around +1 unit/100 spin, which means it is about +1 unit/25 minutes on RNG, which is around 2-3 units an hour. So if we can play with €Ã,£$10 chips, that is around €Ã,£$20-30/hour. So to be able to make some nice profit, we/you have to play 10 hours a day on RNG.
I know we could play it on column as well at the same time, so we have to spend ONLY 5 hours a day to make €Ã,£$200-300. Is there any way to shorten the play time?
Sorry, just thinking outloud.

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 10, 04:53 PM 2011
S'pose you could play 2 MATRIX VERTICAL in tandem - with separate bankrolls of course. One for COLUMNS; one for DOZENS
I have not tried that yet - Interesting...
(You could not use the 40u progression on COLUMNS though)

A.

Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Feb 10, 05:43 PM 2011
There are many betting opportunites on 7x7 matrix on flat bet basis
which am applaying presently,but one has to be there at the table to spot these and
punt at the right time...many vert-horiz. and cros.

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 10, 05:55 PM 2011
That's great F,
It's good to hear you are doing well with a 7x7 grid... If so, you are getting more bets, you are flatbetting and you're getting the needed wins in a lot less spins too. You can go home with a profit earlier than with MATRIX VERTICAL by the sound of it. ;)
I'm sure we'd all benefit by listening to profitable alternative matrix strategies.

A.
PS. I shall agree with John however -  when it comes down to it MATRIX VERTICAL could be "THE SOLUTION" to breaking the roulette code.

Quote from: irishrob on Feb 10, 06:31 PM 2011
Am I just not lucky???

Tested 2500 spin from random.org.
Profit is around +40 units, lost -80 units, down to about -40

Quote from: StackBundles on Feb 10, 07:47 PM 2011
I was just thinking doubles come a lot can we not just flat bet the doubles? we would have loads of betting chances and could hit our targets quicky and we would only have to bet on 1 dozen I haven't tryed this I just kinda spotted it in a few posts

Quote from: GLC on Feb 10, 10:55 PM 2011
John,

Would you please delete my reply #272 about the 7 matrices being the way to get a lot of bets.  I have tested it a couple of times, and it doesn't work.  What happens is that you get basically the same matrices except that each line keeps moving to the right 1 step on each succeeding matrix.  I don't want to mislead anyone into wasting any time with that idea.

Maybe you're right, we shouldn't try to get too clever with the system and just stick to the basics.

George

QuoteAm I just not lucky???

Quote from: superman on Feb 11, 02:20 AM 2011
No Irishrob you're just getting what can be expected, my bot suffered 3 losses within 200 spins so I scapped the idea, it fails at the same rate as expected, the others are just lucky so far.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 11, 04:28 AM 2011
Them a bot is unreliable for testing this there is no way you are going to get 3 5 QUADS in 200 spins.

Quote from: superman on Feb 11, 02:20 AM 2011
No Irishrob you're just getting what can be expected, my bot suffered 3 losses within 200 spins so I scapped the idea, it fails at the same rate as expected, the others are just lucky so far.

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 11, 05:12 AM 2011
After the Trigger (1 Quad) You then ignore it in the sense Vertically

Its Four more Vertical Quads that kill us

Once you have your Trigger you are waiting for the next Trip, then bet it doesn't become a Quad, using the 4 stage progression 1-3-9-27
Cheers  ;D

Quote from: Bayes on Feb 11, 05:20 AM 2011
So how many times do you bet on the same line (that it won't continue)?

Are you saying that you just bet once when you have a vertical line of 3 (bet against it becoming a 4), then if that fails, you wait for a new line of 3 to form?

Quote from: Bayes on Feb 11, 05:20 AM 2011
So how many times do you bet on the same line (that it won't continue)?

Are you saying that you just be once when you have a vertical line of 3 (bet against it becoming a 4), then if that fails, you wait for a new line of 3 to form?

Quote from: Bayes on Feb 11, 05:33 AM 2011


Ok. In that case it seems that the simulations from superman and mr.ore haven't proved that it can't work, so the system may have some merit.  :)

Quote from: Bayes on Feb 11, 05:38 AM 2011
As I understand it, you wait for a virtual loss before playing, meaning don't start playing until you have a vertical line of 4 (or longer), then the first bet will be after the next line of 3, correct?

Do you repeat this after every win?

Quote from: Bayes on Feb 11, 05:51 AM 2011
Right, so here is an example of a losing run:

1 3 2 2 1 3 1
2 3 1 1 2 3 2
1 3 2 1 2 2 3
2 3 3 1 2 3 1 <- 1st loss
2 1 2 1 2 1 3 <- 2nd & 3rd losses
3 1 2 1 1 3 2
1 3 2 2 3 1 2
3 1 2 3 1 2 2 <- 4th loss
2 3 1 2 1 3 2 <- 5th loss

Quote from: irishrob on Feb 10, 06:31 PM 2011
Am I just not lucky???

Tested 2500 spin from random.org.
Profit is around +40 units, lost -80 units, down to about -40

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 11, 05:34 AM 2011


Agreed  :thumbsup:

Quote from: irishrob on Feb 11, 06:12 AM 2011
So what about this one? It was played by the rules.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 11, 06:26 AM 2011
I'm now 124/0 after 55 sessions on an Rng I could never beat with the Zone or Original Matrix method. Remember, at the end of the day this thing has to defeat an RNG and live wheel in order for us to profit.
I've never been taken to the fourth step of the progression ONCE. I've had four third step bets. And all the rest have been instant wins or second step wins... ;D

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 11, 06:27 AM 2011

I don't see any Zero's ?


Zero's do shift the data stream along, even just one column, which does make a difference

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 11, 06:29 AM 2011
Yes. Live play or RNG play does generate those types of Result !


Keep it Real people  ;D !!

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 11, 06:41 AM 2011
Twister I'm keeping it RNG. I've always wanted to beat them. Snipe betting has them chasing their own tail. ..Just went 128/0 after 57 sessions. One instant win, and one second step win. I'm trying to complete one betting bank today. 160pts.... ;D

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 11, 06:59 AM 2011
Hi John and Twister,
Great to hear you're still getting good results ufrom this with the snipe approach. It's an intriguing method and should be obvious by now it's plainly quite different to those other pattern matching on the layout schemes. (like Roulette Bandit for instance)
Let's hope the run of good fortune just goes on and on... and on...

A.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 11, 09:22 AM 2011
Thankyou Atlantis and high praise to TWISTERUK. His zero voids a treble just proved its value. Am now 68/0 With 162 points profit. In one of my sessions the green goblin made up a treble. Had I played it, I would have been pushed to step 4 of the progression. It won anyway, but well done twister for that stipulation. So I've now turned a betting bank my goal today is 200 points total...

QuoteThem a bot is unreliable for testing

Quotethen bet it doesn't become a Quad, using the 4 stage progression 1-3-9-27

QuoteSome are waiting for a new trigger AFTER A WIN

Quotesimulations from superman and mr.ore

QuoteSo what about this one? It was played by the rules

QuoteRemember, at the end of the day this thing has to defeat an RNG and live wheel

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 11, 11:11 AM 2011
How many points are you getting a day John ? From how many Sessions ?

Also how far on do you play, when in the Matrix ?

I play in a 7 Matrix but I don't always stop at 49

Also, do you always play the Virtual Loss after a Win ?

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

QuoteI absolutely wait for a trigger each play, in the beginning I didn't and nearly got my arse kicked. When a 3 QUAD developed. That's why I wad winning 4--6 pts in the beginning

Quote from: redhot on Feb 11, 12:22 PM 2011
Just gonna throw an idea out there...

How about playing 'the zone' on a vertical matrix??

anyone tried it?

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 11, 12:37 PM 2011
That made me laugh redhot. You not. Serious I know...

Quote from: superman on Feb 11, 11:47 AM 2011
When I first posted the method I was testing NOBODY said it was wrong, heck, I even asked if the rules had morphed again.

So the only spin we bet is spin 4 of a qualifier, being a qualifier covers spins 1 to 3, if we don't win on spin 4 we abondon that attack, correct?

So which is the proper way, for us to test it we need it to be clear, who are "some"? fender do you play this way?

We're sorry

Heu Irishrob, me and mr.ore are looking for a 3rd person who got it wrong, did you play it wrong or forget to put the zeros in? pullin yer leg mate

I think anything that can beat RNG will have an easy time on live wheels, I might be worng though, an RNG killer would be the end of online RNG roulette we may be closer now than we were 5 years ago, but I don't personally think we are there yet, I will make the mods to the bot and retest and post results, 124/0 looks TGTBT, you haven't played many sessions of length as you have only had 124 wins, the bot will do that within 10 minutes, how long are your sessions?

QuoteSuperman calm down sir

QuoteYou're starting at realize we've got it

QuoteAnd secondly no-ones gonna play a 20,000 spin session

Quote from: superman on Feb 11, 01:04 PM 2011

Always calm and mellow mate.

Not quite yet, intrigued maybe otherwise I wouldn't spend time on it.

Really! I mean if you claim to have "the method" it shouldn't be a problem playing continuosly should it? I am sure most if not all members/players of RNG would want to play as often and as long as they like.

Like I said earlier, adding extra triggers is just doing so in the hope you miss the nasty that almost caught you once, how do you know you wont get 2 nasties in a row, answer, you don't but if you do will you then add 2 triggers? and bet every 3rd run of 3?

I am running the bot with your miss one bet one method, so far 72 attacks 44 units up, max progression reached 27, 3 times that's the last step of the progression reached, agreed it's not a loss yet but it's close.

Will let it do 200 attackes then post the results for you to peruse, if it fails before then I will post as far as it got.

Quoteallowing the RNG long enough to decode it

Quote from: superman on Feb 11, 01:27 PM 2011
By the way I forgot to ask, if I get 2 qualifiers at the same line, I am betting both when due is that correct? or do you flip a coin use intuition to decide which one to chase after?

Quote from: superman on Feb 11, 01:27 PM 2011
Do you really believe that statement? do you really think it does try to decode what you are doing? I have tested against casino RNG (where you think they cheat) PHP Random, RXtreme software, C++ Random and random.org the results are similar, to say they are the same wouldn't say much for random, the results are similar the loss/win ratio is the same across the board, we are not ney sayers, we are looking for the same as you are, a winning method.

Reputable casino software doesn't need to cheat

By the way I forgot to ask, if I get 2 qualifiers at the same line, I am betting both when due is that correct? or do you flip a coin use intuition to decide which one to chase after?

Quote from: superman on Feb 11, 01:27 PM 2011


By the way I forgot to ask, if I get 2 qualifiers at the same line, I am betting both when due is that correct? or do you flip a coin use intuition to decide which one to chase after?

QuoteWhat you can have is the potential for upto 7 bets (unlikely, but could happen) one AFTER another

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 11, 01:41 PM 2011
This concerns me. Are you playing correctly ?

You can't have 2 qualifiers at the same time to choose from


What you can have is the potential for upto 7 bets (unlikely, but could happen) one AFTER another

But never at the same time

You never have to choose

So, no, we don't flip a coin  ;D

EDIT:

John beat me to it LoL  ;D

Quote from: superman on Feb 11, 01:50 PM 2011
that's what I meant. e.g.

ABCABCA
ABBAABB
ABBBBAA

Here the bot would bet spin 1 then spin 2 of the next 7 spins, correct?

Quote from: superman on Feb 11, 01:50 PM 2011
that's what I meant. e.g.

ABCABCA
ABBAABB
ABBBBAA

Here the bot would bet spin 1 then spin 2 of the next 7 spins, correct?

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 11, 01:52 PM 2011

LoL!!!! Yeah but you getting ZERO could be the greatest tweak in roulette betting history. LoL!!!!! ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: irishrob on Feb 11, 02:02 PM 2011
I just let you know guys I'm testing it by the rules now. My results are very similar to yours. Didn't reach the 4th progression yet. Averaging around +1 unit/100 spin.

Would it be difficult to design a software which could make the spins, collect the data, place the bet(s) and exit the session?

Quote from: Post on Feb 11, 02:05 PM 2011
If it proves to be a winner you can even start with 80 euros and if you have reached 160 euro you double al your bets and within no time you can multiply the

1 bet by 10 and mae a 100 a day  :D just thining out loud.

Quote from: Post on Feb 11, 02:21 PM 2011
But how do you think of the real wheel and airball roulette ?

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 11, 02:17 PM 2011
Post there is a saying I believe in and adhere to with my money management. "TALK QUITELY BUT WALK WITH A BIG STICK". It translates to gambling as bet to win a small amount but have a powerful BR behind you.

You are forgetting we are using a steep progression here. The way around it is to play two simultaneous sessions on two different sites. Then you can win more points. BUT, as I said yesterday don't rush success. We are beating what most deem unbeatable.

Take it a step at a time. I am risking 160 quid on a well known predatory RNG. LADBROKES NO LESS. IF A METHOD CAN BEAT THAT. It can beat anything. that's why I threw the MATRIX vertical in there. I know this RNG has a habit of reading you like a book in minutes. But its struggling to read the matrix.  ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 11, 02:27 PM 2011
MATRIX VERTICAL Will give them a beating. I HAVE now played 80 sessions with a total for the day (my eyes ache LoL) of 202 points profit. Only once have I been close to danger. AND THAT WAS ONLY BECAUSE I TRIED TO ***RUSH***. I thought I would ignore TwisterUK's excellent stipulation for voiding any treble with a ZERO in it. And as a result had to go to the wire with STEP 4 (54--54) of the progression. It won. But Its not a position I want/like being in too often.  ::) ::) ::) ::)

Quote from: Post on Feb 11, 02:32 PM 2011
So if I understnd it I should not bet on triple with a zero included

QuoteNo if it is programmed CORRECTLY, It will REACT to the RESULT of spin 1/BET ONE. I'm not sure you have this method down superman??

Quote1332133
1223233
1221123

Now bet Dozens 2 and 3 hoping column 1's Trip does not become a Quad

The next bet after that is column 7 on dozens 1 and 2 hoping it wont become a Quad

Quote3323321
1332332
1331110
1131113
1211103--Lost at pos. 1; Won at pos. 3
1121212--Lost at pos. 4; Won at pos. 5

Quote3322221
3322223---six in a row yes RNG loves this
3221011
3132231---Dozen 3 stopped Dozen 2 for win
3221132

Quote from: Post on Feb 11, 02:32 PM 2011
So if I understnd it I should not bet on triple with a zero included

Quote from: superman on Feb 11, 02:36 PM 2011
They are 2 independent bets are they not? you said we bet any 3 not to become 4 if 1st spin becomes a 4/loss why would you ignore the next bet along, Twister, whom you praise often, said yes I was correct, it seems the 3 of you have different rules of play, you should tell us how you are playing so we can test/follow.

As far as I can see by past posts from you, atlantis and twister on this thread you guys have stated to bet 2 or more qualifiers if they are there.

Twister said this

Atlantis said this

You posted this fender

You didn't mention the 1st column of 3s' but you mentioned the 3rd column of 2s' if you were following your rules you would have bet on the 1st column only, not so?

Quote from: superman on Feb 11, 02:47 PM 2011
So everyone else except you are playing the way the thread has gone, why did it take many posts to get it out of you, whenever someone gets close to crashing or risking a loss you say they are doing it wrong, and that's not how your playing, they also say they are winning!

And guess what, the bot is still winning too, the wrong way though.

Up to now its results are

153 attacks, 101 units profit, highest progression reached still 27 but now its 5 times its been at the last point of the progression, to me any one of those 5 could have been a loss and should it happen early on your day would be a bit unhappy to say the least.

So please once and for all us please state the exact rules of play.

Quote from: superman on Feb 11, 02:47 PM 2011
So everyone else except you are playing the way the thread has gone, why did it take many posts to get it out of you, whenever someone gets close to crashing or risking a loss you say they are doing it wrong, and that's not how your playing, they also say they are winning!

And guess what, the bot is still winning too, the wrong way though.

Up to now its results are

153 attacks, 101 units profit, highest progression reached still 27 but now its 5 times its been at the last point of the progression, to me any one of those 5 could have been a loss and should it happen early on your day would be a bit unhappy to say the least.

So please once and for all us please state the exact rules of play.

QuoteThe rules have already been layed in STONE Superman go back and read them over

Quote from: ScoobyDoo on Feb 11, 03:03 PM 2011
Hey Guys,

I've got two questions.

How do you bet it when you have a quad and then when it's time to bet you have 2 or 3 trips side-by-side? I had this situation occur while testing.

Lets say you have had the quad show up but no triple so you come around to the quad again. Do you bet it not to become a fiver or just wait for a triple to show up?

Scooby Doo

Quote from: superman on Feb 11, 03:04 PM 2011
Under a stone maybe, nobody else knew them, anyway I am done with the matrix, it'll end up in the zone draw, I haven't bothered finishing the run as the rules changed again, anyway, file uploaded, score 7/10 highest progression reached was last level 27 units per dozen, 5 times in 153 attacks, to close for comfort, is it the gogs dangly bits, nope, can it make you bankrupt, I seriousley think so, there are better 2 dozen bets out there.

I am not going to post here anymore, I am not stopping because I think it will prove me wrong, it may but I doubt it very much, anyway have a great time in vegas!

Quote from: superman on Feb 11, 03:04 PM 2011
Under a stone maybe, nobody else knew them, anyway I am done with the matrix, it'll end up in the zone draw, I haven't bothered finishing the run as the rules changed again, anyway, file uploaded, score 7/10 highest progression reached was last level 27 units per dozen, 5 times in 153 attacks, to close for comfort, is it the gogs dangly bits, nope, can it make you bankrupt, I seriousley think so, there are better 2 dozen bets out there.

I am not going to post here anymore, I am not stopping because I think it will prove me wrong, it may but I doubt it very much, anyway have a great time in vegas!

Quote from: superman on Feb 11, 03:04 PM 2011
Under a stone maybe, nobody else knew them, anyway I am done with the matrix, it'll end up in the zone draw, I haven't bothered finishing the run as the rules changed again, anyway, file uploaded, score 7/10 highest progression reached was last level 27 units per dozen, 5 times in 153 attacks, to close for comfort, is it the gogs dangly bits, nope, can it make you bankrupt, I seriousley think so, there are better 2 dozen bets out there.

I am not going to post here anymore, I am not stopping because I think it will prove me wrong, it may but I doubt it very much, anyway have a great time in vegas!

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 11, 03:15 PM 2011
Hi Superman,
Thanks for the testing and the stats. I am sorry to hear that you've decided you're through with it. Even though the bot wasn't playing it to the letter - you have to admit the method held up and profit was made - and that is quite encouraging to us who are sticking with it until incontravertible proof is given otherwise.
The rules have been a bit ambiguous at times but I can assure you that John is not changing them and we have them set in stone and now crystal clear.

A.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 11, 03:27 PM 2011
Well said Atlantis, it is a shame. But we must push forward until we have a true Average strikerate for M/V. If I take an RNG for 400pts to every 160pts I hand back that's good enough for me..

Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Feb 11, 04:25 PM 2011
Tell us true in how many 10000000 spins
did you achieve this,testing on RNG org.max. 10000 spins
each time.You would have to live another 75 years to achieve that.

Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Feb 11, 05:25 PM 2011
Well agree with you proving something that beats RNG
but my point is that it couldn't be playable in casino on
roulette table.Today I have play from 3pm to 9 pm
airball mach. 244 spins/the way I play/and 5th.session come in plus.
In other words,we are after roulette methods that could be apply
in every day play...and still win....that is my 2 cents.
Hope you prove your point beatting RNG...but you didn't beat
roulette thatway.

Quote from: Post on Feb 12, 06:31 AM 2011
But if you play it in a casino with airball rouette would that go faster ?

Quote from: Post on Feb 12, 06:48 AM 2011
I think like 1 in a minute not sure maybe faster ? never thought about it

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 12, 06:59 AM 2011
Do they also have a history marker where you can back-track 12--25 spins? This is how I would play a live wheel or airball to speed things up.  :o

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 12, 06:46 AM 2011
How often do they spin post?

Quote from: Post on Feb 12, 07:34 AM 2011
So airball rouette  could be usefull don't you think ?

Quote from: Post on Feb 12, 07:43 AM 2011
If you win +10 a day after a whie you could just make that +100 a day just doing a airball machine don't you think ?

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 12, 07:51 AM 2011
Ok this is gonna take me 5 times longer to type out than it did to play !

Was on BV RNG

This took 4 minutes to win

1000 Auto spins (no reason for 1000, its default)

Quad happened. Trigger !

Two Trips formed

Stopped Auto Spin

Spin manually

First Trip became a Quad. Lost

Second Trip did not become a Quad. Win +1pt

It is in a 7 Matrix but I play until a Win

Here are the numbers,


3 1 3 1 3 2 3
1 2 2 2 2 1 3
3 3 3 1 3 1 2
3 3 3 2 3 1 3
3 2 2 3 2 3 2
2 1 3 3 2 1 3
2 3 2 1 2 3 1
3 1 2 2 1 2 1
2 2 1 1 2 3 1
3 3 2 1 1 2 1 Trigger
2 1 1 2 1 2 2
1 2 3 1 1 2 3 Two Trips Formed. Auto Spin Off
2 2 2 3 1 3   First Trip became a Quad.Second Trip Won


4 minutes Max  ;D


Profit 1pt


Rinse and Repeat  ;D

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 12, 08:04 AM 2011
link:s://:.betvoyager.com (link:s://:.betvoyager.com)



You have to write darn quick as the numbers drop on Auto, but you get used to it  ;D

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 12, 05:50 AM 2011
Good morning people. I have already play 5 sessions of M/V today. The first three were instant wins after the trigger. fourth won on the second bet as did the fifth. So an easy 10 points. Bringing my totals at
212 points no losing sessions. Did have to wait 112 spins for the second trigger though. And lost 2 points to the zero as I pushed the wheel along.

I'm convinced M/V is RNG proof. There has been one 4 QUAD in 89 sessions and even that had a Zero in one of them so it didn't count.
Here is a breakdown of how the wins panned out.
WINS...
STEP 1=72
STEP 2=25
STEP 3=08
STEP 4=01-----(NOT A TRUE 4 QUAD)

Quote from: marivo on Feb 12, 08:50 AM 2011

So, if it stay at these results, we need actually a sum of 12 chips and about 100 spins to get 1 chip profit?

Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Feb 12, 07:57 AM 2011
You would have to sit long time before you win
2 units on airball thatway.

Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 12, 08:20 AM 2011
John, How many sessions are you playing a day with this?

BW

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 12, 08:59 AM 2011
I know its been said before but I just want to reiterate these two points as they are the key to success,


1. ALWAYS wait for a Quad after a Win

2. ALWAYS ignore the data stream (Vertically) ABOVE a Zero. It resets at the point of the Zero

Quote from: vundarosa on Feb 12, 09:59 AM 2011
==============

I am on average at 5u /hr with Eurogrand RNG


vundarosa

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 12, 12:34 PM 2011
Hi to John and all following this interesting system,

Here is another stake system for 2doz which *might* be adaptable for the MATRIX VERTICAL.
In which case it may be a viable alternative plan should it be evident that the strike rate continues to be so good..

You do not profit on EVERY WIN therefore you must play on;  bearing in mind to ALWAYS play in accordance with the selection rules for MV.

Simply put:
On a loss the bet is increased one unit.
On a win, keep the bet the same until level or ahead
The bet is always the same for both dozens

Bet 1 = 1-1 L -2
Bet 2 = 2-2 L -6
Bet 3 = 3-3 L -15
Bet 4 = 4-4 W -11
Bet 5 = 4-4 L -19
Bet 6 = 5-5 W -14
Bet 7 = 5-5 W-9
Bet 8 = 5-5 W -4
Bet 9 = 5-5 W +1 *

Bet 1 = 1-1 L -2
Bet 2 = 2-2 W +0*
Bet3  = 1-1 W +1*

It's actually called the King System and you can test it out at:
link:://:.loothog.com/Systems/king.html (link:://:.loothog.com/Systems/king.html)

Unfortunately, you cannot using MV rules - but you can get an idea of the mechanics.

Consider though that MV is stronger than the example dozen system used in the test,  so  in my opinion the King system for double dozens could be another choice to be considered...


A.

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 12, 12:34 PM 2011
Hi to John and all following this interesting system,

Here is another stake system for 2doz which *might* be adaptable for the MATRIX VERTICAL.
In which case it may be a viable alternative plan should it be evident that the strike rate continues to be so good..

You do not profit on EVERY WIN therefore you must play on;  bearing in mind to ALWAYS play in accordance with the selection rules for MV.

Simply put:
On a loss the bet is increased one unit.
On a win, keep the bet the same until level or ahead
The bet is always the same for both dozens

Bet 1 = 1-1 L -2
Bet 2 = 2-2 L -6
Bet 3 = 3-3 L -15....L=12
Bet 4 = 4-4 W -11.....--8
Bet 5 = 4-4 L -19......-16
Bet 6 = 5-5 W -14...-11
Bet 7 = 5-5 W-9.......-6
Bet 8 = 5-5 W -4......--1
Bet 9 = 5-5 W +1 *  +4

Bet 1 = 1-1 L -2
Bet 2 = 2-2 W +0*
Bet 3  = 1-1 W +1*

It's actually called the King System and you can test it out at:
link:://:.loothog.com/Systems/king.html (link:://:.loothog.com/Systems/king.html)

Unfortunately, you cannot using MV rules - but you can get an idea of the mechanics.

Consider though that MV is stronger than the example dozen system used in the test,  so  in my opinion the King system for double dozens could be another choice to be considered...


A.

Quote from: GLC on Feb 12, 04:23 PM 2011
Since we may consider a different taking method, I would like to put one option out there.

It may violate JL's 20 event theory, but maybe it will work anyway.

My idea is to wait for a quad and then bet for 3 (1-1; 3-3; 9-9) instead of 4 (1-1; 3-3; 9-9; 27-27) times.  A fail progression of 3 steps cost us 26 units instead of 80 units.

This should work because of the high hit rate in the first 3 bets.

To recover our 26 units more quickly, we could play 3-3; 9-9; 27-27 and recover 3 times faster.

If you don't like this idea and you could play at Betvoyager like Twister does and speed things up quite a bit and wait for 2 quads in a row and then bet 1-3-9 and it would be the same as betting for 5 quads except that you save the 54 units.

If you're concerned about the 54 wins you would have made by betting the 2nd quad, remember, every time you lose a 1-3-9-27 series, you lose those 54 units.

This is a train of thought that I haven't had time to follow in every direction possible.  Maybe some of you young guys with quicker thinking processes can take this in a better direction or point out the higher risks it gives.

George

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 12, 05:21 PM 2011
Nice post George. Today played 14 sessions and not one went beyond 2 QUADS. Twister and me know that 5th Quad may NEVER SHOW.

that's why some think 54 is a big risk, I am stating this bluntly, but I think time will prove me right. The strike rate of MATRIX VERTICAL is likely to be 1,000/1 minumum. When you think of those odds 80Pts seems like a very modest risk. Random has no anwser to 5 QUADS George thus far, it may be so rare. We have a progression grail on our hands. I have 2,405 recorded sessions without a single. 5 QUAD. I'm stunned what have we got here people??

Quote from: GLC on Feb 12, 05:44 PM 2011
Here's my take on what you just wrote.  If you ever have a loss on at 27-27 bet, if you don't take a shot at 51-51, then you don't believe what you just wrote.  As a matter of fact I think if I ever get to a loss on 27-27 I'm going to bet 80-80 because to lose it would be so rare that I think it's worth risking 160 units to prevent losing 80 with those odds.

Just my take on it.  You never know.  For sure 102 units is worth risking to save having to claw back 80 units if you just take the 27-27 loss.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 12, 06:02 PM 2011
George I couldn't agree more. I think a 6 QUAD is simply impossible for random. We still have no number cruncher to give us the odds of a 5 QUAD forming. Id like to know. Every time I bet I've got 160 points on the line George and I've already won more than 1.5 that amount. We are asking random to land a dozen in the same place 20 times in a row, and its not interested. To our advantage..

Quote from: GLC on Feb 12, 05:44 PM 2011
Here's my take on what you just wrote.  If you ever have a loss on at 27-27 bet, if you don't take a shot at 51-51, This should read 81-81) then you don't believe what you just wrote.  As a matter of fact I think if I ever get to a loss on 27-27 I'm going to bet 80-80  This should read 100-100 because to lose it would be so rare that I think it's worth risking 160  This should read 200) units to prevent losing 80 with those odds.

Just my take on it.  You never know.  For sure 102This should read 162 units is worth risking to save having to claw back 80 units if you just take the 27-27 loss.

Quote from: warrior on Feb 12, 06:39 PM 2011
knowing that a 5 quad does not form that often why not start  betting on a 3quad as a trigger  ?

Quote from: GLC on Feb 12, 09:49 PM 2011
I think the reason is that waiting for 3 quads in a row would take hundreds of spins but I think it's worth it if we use this reasoning.

This reasoning doesn't apply if we expect to win much more betting on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th quads than we will lose when we lose a 5th quad bet.

Let's say it's impossible for 6 quads to happen.  That means that we don't have to skip betting on the 1st triple to form a quad, all we need is a 844 unit bank (1-1; 3-3; 9-9; 27-27; 81-81; 162-162; 243-243) so if the 1st time we start betting and lose the 1st 5 bets meaning that 5 quads formed in a row, we still have the 243-243 bet to place for the 6th triple not to form a quad.  And it won't because, remember, it's impossible.  That would mean that it's time to close down all roulette tables in the world, or change their win vs max bet limits so we can't make these bets.

Okay, so that's not reality.  But if JL is right and we can expect maybe 1000 to 1odds of 5 quads forming then we should be able to expect at least 2000 to 1 against 6 quads forming.  That means we can be willing to place 6 bets against this event happening.  If we have 2000 to 1 unit wins and an  844 unit loss we are still up by 1156 units.

Or, we could still use the 1st quad as a trigger and only risk betting 5 steps instead of 6 steps.

Just some numbers to get you to thinking of what's happening here.  Of course all this is mere hypothesis up to this point.

G

Quote from: warrior on Feb 12, 06:39 PM 2011
knowing that a 5 quad does not form that often why not start  betting on a 3quad as a trigger  ?

Quote from: 6th-sense on Feb 13, 04:00 AM 2011
Triple to form a quad, all we need is a 844 unit bank (1-1; 3-3; 9-9; 27-27; 81-81; 162-162; 243-243) so if the 1st time we start betting and lose the 1st 5 bets meaning that 5 quads formed in a row, we still have the 243-243 bet to place for the 6th triple not to form a quad.  And it won't because, remember, it's impossible.  That would mean that it's time to close down all roulette tables in the world, or change their win vs max bet limits so we can't make these bets.

i think the progression is wrong here its a lot more than that  162 and 243 win wouldn,t recover the losses?? :thumbsup:

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 13, 04:36 AM 2011

Everything is relative...

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 13, 04:38 AM 2011
So true  ;D !

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 13, 04:44 AM 2011
Hey Twister BV had me dizzy yesterday WOW...

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 13, 04:47 AM 2011
Its the only way I play now  ;D

Can you imagine playin this on a Live Wheel ?

Urgghhhhhhh !

Do you like BV ?

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 13, 04:56 AM 2011

Yes its awesome, but say 10 of us started living over there and running M/V how long would it take before the boys who run the show sussed, something ain't right here our profit margin is taking a hammering LoL!!!! ;D

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 13, 04:50 AM 2011
I see a lot of talk about progression
I will only play 1-3-9-27 obviously after a Trigger  ;D
I'm not risking more, and like I said I've enough Profit now for a wipeout

Quote
Level One
Ã,£1 staked - 4x25p LINES Profit=+0.5u

Level Two
Ã,£3 staked - 4x75p LINES Profit=+0.5u

Level Three
Ã,£9 staked - 4xÃ,£2.25p LINES Profit =+0.5u

Level Four
Ã,£27 staked - 4xÃ,£6.75p LINES Profit=+0.5u

TOTAL=Ã,£40 AT RISK
===============

If win Ã,£40 @ 0.5u win level then can move up to normal 1u win level 1-3-9-27 (x2) = 80u

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 13, 04:50 AM 2011
I see a lot of talk about progression

I will only play 1-3-9-27 obviously after a Trigger  ;D

I'm not risking more, and like I said I've enough Profit now for a wipeout

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 13, 05:12 AM 2011
I agree - it's ideal with the 1-3-9-27!

I wouldn't change anything just yet. Still it could be played for lower bank (40u) if playing the lines and accepting 0.5 wins instead of whole units.

Maybe for those new or cautious or not wishing to risk the full 80u?

A.

Quote from: Fraudster on Feb 13, 06:22 AM 2011
0.01 yes 1 cent/penny/whatever you wanna call it.

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 13, 06:53 AM 2011
Hi Fraudster & Twister,

I tried the various roulette on BV in demo mode but it would only let me spin a max of 3 empty spins (spins without bet)
Is this restriction lifted if you join?

A.

Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 13, 07:19 AM 2011
I tried this also in demo, and it doesn't let you press the auto spin button...I'm assuming once you join it does though otherwise what's the point?

Quote from: Fraudster on Feb 13, 07:52 AM 2011
Please bare in mind that when playing zero roulette.. I believe 10% of winnings are surrendered to betvoyager when you withdraw... its all in the terms.

Quote from: buffalowizard on Feb 13, 07:56 AM 2011
Can you play with the zero in auto mode? I would rather not give them 10% of anything

BW

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 13, 08:43 AM 2011
OK. Thanks twister.
Just tried it on the no-zero at BV

Trigger on Spin30
Bet 1 @Spin31 W+1
Trigger on Spin85
Bet 1 @Spin88 W+1
=====
END SESSION
======

+2
in abt 10 mins.

A.

Quote from: Post on Feb 13, 09:47 AM 2011
Isnt it a good idea to wait for 14 no matches in matrix  and then bet with some kind of progression on the 7*7 matrix

Quote from: Post on Feb 13, 09:47 AM 2011
Isnt it a good idea to wait for 14 no matches in matrix  and then bet with some kind of progression on the 7*7 matrix

Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Feb 13, 11:07 AM 2011
You would have a long wait,probably wouldn't
place a bet in all night session of about 350-400 spins.

Quote from: 6th-sense on Feb 13, 04:00 AM 2011
Triple to form a quad, all we need is a 844 unit bank (1-1; 3-3; 9-9; 27-27; 81-81; 162-162; 243-243) so if the 1st time we start betting and lose the 1st 5 bets meaning that 5 quads formed in a row, we still have the 243-243 bet to place for the 6th triple not to form a quad.  And it won't because, remember, it's impossible.  That would mean that it's time to close down all roulette tables in the world, or change their win vs max bet limits so we can't make these bets.

i think the progression is wrong here its a lot more than that  162 and 243 win wouldn,t recover the losses?? :thumbsup:

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 13, 03:26 AM 2011
I love your wry humor George, you come from land of the tornado, George. I think its around march to may they really hit. What would be the odds of 6 tornados touching down in the same part of town?

Quote from: GLC on Feb 13, 11:44 AM 2011
You're right about tornadoes and Oklahoma, but I high tailed it out of there many years back.  Now I live in Tucson, Arizona where the only natural disaster you have to worry about is 115 degrees F temps in the summer at times.  Oh yeah, and the rattlesnakes, scorpions, gila monsters, blackwidow spiders, etc...

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 13, 11:19 AM 2011
I would suggest attacking the streak from Spin 9 F-LAT-INO virtually all the streaks in my records don't make it past 17.

Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Feb 13, 12:58 PM 2011
Have experienced 21 once I have lost 6 step progression
with 5 wirtuals,then continued play lost once more progression/double stake/and in third attempt of 6 step progression/re double stake/won in 5th attempt.
21 spins without a match....have also noticed there are not such long strikes
in horizontal play.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 13, 01:01 PM 2011
I saw 9 matches today on Ladbrokes RNG F_LAT_INO that's why I won't be against a match horizontaly. But streaks between 9---19 have a good hit-rate you will definately come out on top overall...

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 13, 01:50 PM 2011
Okay I am done for the day. Its been pretty easy. Have played 31 sessions and now have more than two betting progressions in profit. Of the 31 sessions only 4 were 3 QUADS. There were 21 step one wins and 7 step two wins.

TOTAL SESSIONS PLAYED 138---LOST ZERO
TOTAL POINTS WON 326

The strike rate of MATRIX VERTICAL is looking vast. I want 200/1 but I think its going to be considerably better than that... ;D

Quote from: atlantis on Feb 13, 02:27 PM 2011
Extremely well done on reaching this milestone - but John, take it easy for a while and don't knock yourself out! There's plenty of time. Those TRIPS aren't going anywhere; they will still be a-waiting for the snipe when you return.  :thumbsup:

What a wonderfully productive thread.

A.

Quote from: Post on Feb 13, 02:47 PM 2011
I was thinking if this turns out to be a winner and you all atack the RNG with great success what would happen to the players making lots of profit would they get banned form the gambling sites, or not ?

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 13, 03:02 PM 2011
Depends how smart you are post. I wouldnt play the same site more than two, three times a week. Stay under the radar.

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 13, 03:19 PM 2011
HEY WHERE IS TWISTER? Is he still spinning inside the MATRIX. I think we've both been overdoing it Atlantis... :o

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 13, 03:21 PM 2011
I'm here buddy

Over did it yesterday LoL 4am-10pm

Took it easier today and also checked out BW 3x3  ;D

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 13, 03:27 PM 2011
How'd you get on today Twister? What's your tally now and are you pleased with our little creation. Forget the Abyss and Sanctum. Of enough people play M/V Rng will be going to new depths LoL!  ;D

Quote
Forget the Abyss and Sanctum.

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 13, 03:29 PM 2011
Indeed !

Able to soak up 2 total losses and still be in Profit  ;D

Will close in on Bank 3 2morrow

Only play 1-3-9-27 after a Quad

Quote from: trebor on Feb 13, 03:43 PM 2011
I know a lot of people will disagree but my experience of RNG including Betvoyager is that it will learn your methods and counteract them.

It could be that this is to random for it to get a handle on but I would be careful.

Robert

Quote from: trebor on Feb 13, 03:43 PM 2011
I know a lot of people will disagree but my experience of RNG including Betvoyager is that it will learn your methods and counteract them.

It could be that this is to random for it to get a handle on but I would be careful.

Robert

Quote from: Josip on Feb 13, 03:57 PM 2011
Yes, and it happened to me many times...random BV suddenly becomes generated BV.

Quote from: Josip on Feb 13, 04:19 PM 2011
In and out...that make sense!

Quote from: trebor on Feb 13, 04:23 PM 2011
Well that has been my experience Johnlegend.

I don't know whether logging out wipes the slate clean so to speak, maybe it does. I haven't kept records on this but I don't now play any rng.

As I say your method may be able to elude its cunning long term. Here's hoping.

By the way I noticed Stackbundles in chat earlier.  We've not heard from him for ages.

Robert

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 14, 09:20 AM 2011


I Think this strategy is most definately an RNG killer played snipe style.

Quote from: monty89 on Feb 14, 10:47 AM 2011
Hey guys/gals,

I'm a bit of a noob to this site but I can't seem to find the download link for this Matrix vertical method.

Can anyone help?


Best Regards
Monty

Quote from: Post on Feb 14, 02:50 PM 2011
I have a question what's the longest repeat number on a vertical matrix because we bet after the quad but can't we just bet the quad against it becoming a 5 pointer and so on til it changes. ?

Quote from: Post on Feb 14, 03:26 PM 2011
So you will need to wait for a quad and if so you can bet  :thumbsup:

Quote from: Post on Feb 14, 03:34 PM 2011
But still the question is how many times does a 9 pointer appear ?

Quote from: warrior on Feb 12, 06:39 PM 2011
knowing that a 5 quad does not form that often why not start  betting on a 3quad as a trigger  ?

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 15, 02:48 AM 2011
Well I AM the Party Pooper at the moment  :-\


Just had SIX Quads in a row  :o

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 15, 02:48 AM 2011
Well I AM the Party Pooper at the moment  :-\
Just had SIX Quads in a row  :o
Had first Quad Trigger
Then the next FIVE Trips ALL became Quads
Making 6 in total
Urgghhhh  ???
I only bet 1-3-9-27 and I stopped there but I kept tracking "just to see"
Still in Profit by over 1 Bank but this is a big kick in the gonads  :(

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 15, 02:48 AM 2011
Well I AM the Party Pooper at the moment  :-\


Just had SIX Quads in a row  :o


Had first Quad Trigger

Then the next FIVE Trips ALL became Quads

Making 6 in total


Urgghhhh  ???


I only bet 1-3-9-27 and I stopped there but I kept tracking "just to see"


Still in Profit by over 1 Bank but this is a big kick in the gonads  :(

Quote from: Johnlegend on Feb 15, 11:22 AM 2011
OHMYGOSH was that on BV Twister, and are you playing real money? I've just completed my 12 sessions for today and still have nothing worse than a 4 QUAD ALTHOUGH 2 said hello today. Alright so rng can produce them. But how often?  :wink:

Quote from: Twisteruk on Feb 15, 11:26 AM 2011
Yep that was on BV

Yes real money. I am still over 1 bank in Profit  ;D

How often ?
I don't know
You could get get 2 in 2 sessions then none for 200 sessions or longer (for example)  :wink: