The 4 sectors of the American wheel
1, 3, 5,13,15,22,24,34,36
2, 4, 6,14,16,21,23,33,35
7,9,11,17,20,26,28,30,32
8, 10, 12,18,19,25,27,29,31
Bet that the sector from last spin will repeat within the next 6 spins. If you get a hit, you bet that same sector until it stops hitting.
If no hit within the 6 spins, go the No-show sector till a hit (the sector that has not hit for the longest).
We will be betting on 8 numbers, instead of 9 numbers**
Progression (16 steps): 1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3,3ââ,¬â€2,2,2,3,4,5,6
BANKROLL: 312 units
Average profit: 60 units per 50 spins (this is assuming that you will bust once every 1,000 spins) . If not, your profits should be higher.
**Although there are 9 numbers per sector (zeros excluded), weââ,¬â,,¢ll only bet 8 of the 9 numbers. The number to be excluded will be the one belonging to the sleeping DOZ & COL.
Test result with the first 1,000 spins from the Zumma book
Profit: +1,244 units
Busted once
Highest profit: +1,460
Test Result is attached
-----------------------------------
The 4 sectors of the European wheel
32, 15,19,4,21,2, 25, 17, 34
6, 27, 13, 36,11,30,8,23,10
5, 24,16,33,1,20,14,31,9
22, 18,29,7,28,12,35,3,26
Here is a test i did for today spins at the Casino in Germany
186 spins
Profit: +280
Permanenzen vom Tisch T2 vom 15.02.2011
Spin Number W/L Bal
1 34
2 27 L -8
3 20 L -16
4 11 L -24
5 32 W 4
6 28 L
7 28 L
8 3 L
9 31 L
10 29 L -36
11 4 W 20
12 0 L
13 15 W 40
14 6 L
15 16 L
16 16 L 16
17 19 W 44
18 36 L
19 17 W 64
20 25 W 92
21 10 L
22 22 L
23 35 L
24 13 L
25 6 L 52
26 0 L
27 10 L 20
28 27 L -4
29 14 W 80
30 17 L
31 8 L
32 36 L
33 11 L
34 31 W 76
35 23 L
36 35 L
37 18 L
38 34 L
39 18 L 36
40 34 L
41 19 L 4
42 4 L
43 21 L -44
44 11 W 12
45 22 L
46 16 L
47 2 L
48 11 W 16
49 15 L
50 30 W 36
51 11 W 64
52 1 L
53 16 L
54 0 L
55 14 L
56 28 L 24
57 0 L
58 16 L -8
59 0 L
60 23 L -56
61 27 L
62 6 L
63 33 L -104
64 7 L -128
65 20 L -160
66 4 W -20
67 15 W 8
68 2 W 36
69 22 L
70 11 L
71 12 L
72 26 L
73 15 W 32
74 12 L
75 26 L
76 31 L
77 4 W 36
78 2 W 64
79 7 L
80 20 L
81 4 W 76
82 26 L
83 27 L
84 4 W 88
85 29 L
86 10 L
87 19 W 100
88 36 L
89 3 L
90 13 L
91 23 L
92 6 L 60
93 1 L
94 1 L 28
95 23 L 4
96 35 W 88
97 34 L
98 16 L
99 11 L
100 33 L
101 17 L 48
102 12 W 104
103 30 L
104 12 W 124
105 30 L
106 27 L
107 34 L
108 34 L
109 15 L 84
110 8 L 68
111 1 W 126
112 11 L
113 22 L
114 1 W 136
115 4 L
116 3 L
117 3 L
118 1 W 140
119 2 L
120 19 L
121 18 L
122 2 L
123 5 W 136
124 30 L
125 32 L
126 35 L
127 7 L
128 16 W 132
129 28 L
130 0 L
131 16 W 144
132 10 L
133 23 L
134 3 L
135 14 W 148
136 14 W 176
137 12 L
138 17 L
139 6 L
140 4 L
141 19 L 136
142 21 L
143 36 L 104
144 36 L
145 32 L 56
146 35 W 112
147 24 L
148 17 L
149 36 L
150 3 W 116
151 27 L
152 12 W 136
153 15 L
154 31 L
155 20 L
156 23 L
157 12 W 132
158 13 L
159 0 L
160 22 W 144
161 6 L
162 9 L
163 17 L
164 23 L
165 1 L 104
166 16 L
167 14 L 72
168 17 W 156
169 23 L
170 0 L
171 15 W 168
172 31 L
173 19 W 188
174 3 L
175 34 W 208
176 35 L
177 32 W 228
178 34 W 256
179 31 L
180 19 W 276
181 30 L
182 35 L
183 20 L
184 19 W 280
185 16 L
186 22 L
Another test from today's spins at the Germany's casino
Tisch: T3
Datum: 2011-02-15
********* Gewinnzahlen ********
358 SPINS
PROFIT +960
7
31L-8
12W+20
4L+12
32L+4
8L-4
1L-12
36L-20
4L-36
18L-52
7L-76
12L-100
12L-116
14W-60
32L-68
13L-76
0L-84
32L-92
19L-100
17L-116
0L-132
0L-156
9L-180
30L-196
0L-216
3W-156
20L-164
9L-172
6L-180
7W-152
19L-160
22W-132
31L-140
31L-148
20L-156
30L-164
21L-172
31L-188
36W-132
32L-140
21L-148
13W-120
8W-92
29L-100
16L
35L
34L
16L
1L-148
10L-164
12W-80
4L
20L
2L
25L
15L-120
35W-64
31L
5L
3W-52
25L
12W-32
26W-4
1L
33L
35W+8
36L
5L
12W+20
0L
22W+40
31L
23L
4L
0L
13L+0
17L-16
33W+40
31W+68
9W+96
11L
15L
30L
10L
0L+56
13L+40
7W+96
18W+124
17L
3W+144
2L
35W+164
25L
28W+184
13L
0L
17L
32L
29W+180
21L
21L
34L
3W+184
15L
13L
15L
14L
31L+144
10L
24L+112
0L
14L+64
27L
28L
20L+16
15W+100
31L
12L
34W+112
19W+140
21W+168
32W+196
36L
22L
0L
3L
24L+156
14L
3L+124
10W+208
30W+236
35L
2L
9L
6W+240
24L
29L
24L
2L
8W+236
11W+264
11W+292
16L
22L
30W+304
0L
15L
36W+316
11W+344
7L
7L
17L
1L
29L+304
23W+360
23W+388
0L
24L
3L
4L
28L+348
24L
33L+316
25W+400
14L
1L
36L
12L
4W+396
18L
2W+416
25W+444
0L
27L
27L
29L
17W+440
27L
32W+460
18L
10L
33L
2W+464
15W+492
25W+520
27L
18L
13L
12L
0L+480
18L
4L+448
36L
35L+400
24W+456
11L
14W+476
30L
35L
9W+488
34L
17L
15L
26L
18L+448
12L
16L+416
8W+500
6W+528
6W+556
13W+584
14L
36W+608
33L
17L
19L
27W+612
16L
22L
27W+624
4L
1L
13W+636
8W+664
19L
5L
29L
17L
9L+624
8W+680
24L
11W+700
8W+728
23W+756
28L
9L
18L
0L
29L+716
35L
16L+684
4W+768
22L
19W+788
14L
11L
20L
7L
31L+748
33L+732
8W+788
7L
1L
9L
10W+792
30W+820
36W+848
35L
5L
30W+860
6W+888
33L
11W+908
23W+936
31L
23W+956
7L
35L
4L
8W+960
5L
25L
34L
18L
35L+920
2L
15L+888
7L
10L+840
14W+896
28L
17L
35L
15L
19L+856
8L
7W+896
0L
3W+916
13L
29W+936
13L
2L
3W+948
18W+976
14L
22W+996
28W+1,024
35W+1,052
36L
14L
13L
34L
9L+1012
5L
34L+980
28L
12L+932
20L
4L+900
13W+956
0L
17L
12L
34L
11W+952
17L
22L
35L
12L
33L+912
24L
3L+880
22L
19W+940
28L
20L
25W+952
25W+980
27L
4W+1,000
11L
31L
33L
11L
5L+960
13L
20L+912
18W+996
36L
29W+1,016
4L
33L
30L
21L
15L+976
32L
28L
23L
17L+896
11L
1W+936
18L
5W+956
15L
21L
35L
9W+960
15L
Dear Carsch,
Thanks for this nice post. You really worked hard on testing its effectiveness. During my last casino trip, I encountered a sleeper quarter of the wheel (9 consecutive numbers on an euro wheel) for more than 55 times. I have only one piece of advise here. Get benefit of temporary bias and do not let it sweep you. Yur method is very good but we can go other way round also.
You think it will work on automated airball spins?
this is a interesting concept as i have made a very similar system in another forum except i bet on the sectors that hit the most.
sectors from the wheel so if A hit then i bet on A to hit again and the testing was good and showed promised.
best way to counter sleepers was to not place any bets if there were no doubles, i think this system is similar and should be used to find bias wheels.
my system uses flat betting and still profits.
Quote from: foreverBOB link=topic=3992. msg38006#msg38006 date=1297877997
You think it will work on automated airball spins?
if it works on random then it will proberly work on airballs, i saw one of these machines working the other day and made a couple of bets and won with my own system.
its not on any forum but that would work on the air balls.
Quote from: albalaha on Feb 16, 04:31 AM 2011
Dear Carsch,
Thanks for this nice post. You really worked hard on testing its effectiveness. During my last casino trip, I encountered a sleeper quarter of the wheel (9 consecutive numbers on an euro wheel) for more than 55 times. I have only one piece of advise here. Get benefit of temporary bias and do not let it sweep you. Yur method is very good but we can go other way round also.
You're right about the sleeper, Albalah. However, since it doesn't always happen, i would think that with this system, it would be ok to lose one session out of a couple sessions. Well, there are other ways one could also play this system, of course. One just have to try different things.
Quote from: foreverBOB on Feb 16, 12:39 PM 2011
You think it will work on automated airball spins?
Why not! One could give it a try. If u have past spins, i'll test them.
Quote from: darrynf on Feb 17, 12:00 AM 2011
This is a interesting concept as I have made a very similar system in another forum except I bet on the sectors that hit the most.
I did try that, but wasn't working for me. But then when i go to the online live casinos, i see that the sectors that hit most often would be a way to go.......cause that is usually what i see taking place.
Quotemy system uses flat betting and still profits.
How many numbers do you bet on?
9 numbers and the system is based on live wheels, kind of looking for bias wheels but its still new, so needs more testing.
i could put it in here if you like, but i think playing the sectors that hit the most is the way to go.
you already have seen it, i have tested it so i know it works
Yes, please post it. I guess i need to do more tests with the sectors that hit most.
Anyway, as for flat betting, i just checked the last two tests i put up here. Had i just played flat bets, this is what i'd get:
For the test with 186 spins
44 wins:+1,232
139 losses: -1,2112
Net profit: +120
For the test with 358 spins
99 wins: +2,772
257 losses: -2,056
Net profit: +716
Wow, not bad at all just flat betting.
is it ok if i put it in this thread as i dont want it to be scrutisnise.
Quote from: darrynf on Feb 17, 01:43 AM 2011
Is it ok if I put it in this thread as I don't want it to be scrutisnise.
Sure, it's fine with me.
heres my new system:
there are 4 sectors to watch (B sector is optional)
A) 0,32,15,19,4,21,2,25,17
B) 34,6,27,13,36,11,30,8,23,10 (This sector is optional)
C) 5,24,16,33,1,20,14,31,9
D) 22,18,29,7,28,12,35,3,26
you spin 30 or more (optional) times, look at what sectors hit the most (A, B, C or D), depending if you are playing RNG or live wheels:
live wheels, you bet on the sectors that hit the most with doubles in the first 30 spins (this is crucial, if no doubles then leave and go to a different table.
RNG, you bet on what has the less hits out of the sector, in theory with RNG it ment to evenly distrubute it self out over time, so you can play long sessions (as long as the first 30 spins are done for every 100 spins and there is doubles in that 30 spins).
THIS IS ONLY FLAT BETTING.
IF YOU HAVE A LOW B. R THEN START WITH LOWER CHIPS.
ALWAYS BETTING NUMBERS, 9 NUMBERS IS THE MAXIMUN UNLESS YOU ARE PLAYING SECTOR B.
THIS SYSTEM CAN BE MODIFIED FOR AMERICAN WHEELS (PLACE 00 IN FRONT OF 0, A SECTOR BECOMES 10 NUMBERS. )
example of real numbers:
Session 1 RNG
1 C
14 C
4 A
26 D
36 B
1 C
1 C
32 A
20 C
30 B
0 A
11 B
3 D
25 A
31 C
35 D
14 C
10 B
24 C
35 D
8 B
36 B
36 B
9 C
22 D
27 B
3 D
31 C
13 B
34 B end of the 30 spin cycle
A) 04 hits B) 10 hits C) 10 hits D) 06 hits
Now I will bet either B or C for doubles. (I will bet for C)(more than likely A and D will come through.
For testing results Iââ,¬â,,¢m going play C
9 C bet C
30 B loss -9
31 C bet C
17 A loss -9
15 A
23 B
26 D
17 A
7 D
28 D
4 A
12 D
2 A
15 A
10 B
25 A
24 C bet C
26 D loss -9
12 D
9 C bet C
36 B loss -9
5 C bet C
24 C win +27, bet C
24 C win +27, bet C
12 D loss-9
20 C bet C
10 B loss -9
1 C bet C
1 C win +27, bet C
13 D loss -9
29 B
8 B
14 C bet C
24 C win +29, bet C
8 B loss -9
20 C bet C
15 A loss -9
11 B
31 C bet C
16 C win +27, bet C
6 B loss -9
10 B
2 A
4 A
1 C bet C
0 A loss -9
2 A
1 C bet C
33 C win +27
6 B
35 D
8 B
8 B
7 D
34 B
17 A
21 A
30 B
25 A
28 D
2 A
3 D
35 D
36 B
25 A
26 D
12 D
7 D
11 B
27 B
1 C bet C
13 B loss-9
12 D
0 A
104 spins
6 wins 27x6= $162
12 loses 12x9=$108
$54 profit
This was all flat betting.
If I had played sector D:
8 loses
5 wins = profit $63
Even D makes profit with flat betting.
A:
6 loses
5 wins even A makes $81 profit.
B:
12 loses
4 wins
UPDATE: B is wrong, its not -16, it 0.
for 1 win and 4 losses you break even
0 profit, so B was the worst case scenario.
as you can see A and D hit alot but I wanted to show a bad result but the results in this session were good overal.
Session 3 (a real wheel)
11 B
5 C
5 C
2 A
34 B
17 A
8 B
27 B
24 C
2 A
13 B
19 A
9 C
2 A
21 A
25 A
11 B
29 D
0 A
8 B
32 A
32 A
34 B
32 A
19 A
34 B
17 A
1 C
15 A
13 B end of 30 spins
A) 14 HITS B) 10 HITS C) 05 HITS D) 01 HITS
These numbers are from a live real, if it was RNG I would play D. Iââ,¬â,,¢m going to play A cause its a real wheel and maybe bias.
24 C
9 C
7 D
0 A, BET A
25 A,WIN +27, BET A
0 A,WIN +27, BET A
18 D,LOSS -9
25 A, BET A
30 B, LOSS -9
7 D
26 D
0 A, BET A
9 C, LOSS -9
30 B
14 C
30 B
19 A, BET
19 A, WIN +27, BET A
20 C, LOSS -9
15 A, BET A
36 B, LOSS -9
11 B
0 A, BET A
26 D, LOSS -9
20 C
30 B
3 D
31 C
23 B
27 B
0 A, BET A
32 A, WIN +27, BET A
10 B, LOSS -9
18 D
23 B
3 D
13 B
0 A, BET A
18 D, LOSS -9
4 A, BET A
26 D, LOSS -9
1 C
8 B
16 C
5 C
26 D
23 B
20 C
3 D
13 B
12 D
0 A, BET A
27 B, LOSS -9
2 A, BET A
36 B, LOSS -9
9 C
0 A, BET A
0 A, WIN +27, BET A
32 A, WIN +27, BET A
17 A, WIN +27, BET A
31 C, LOSS -9
27 B
16 C
32 A, BET ON A
22 D, LOSS -9
12 D
14 C
23 B
28 D
17 A, BET A
25 A, WIN +27, BET A
17 A, WIN + 27, BET A
6 B, LOSS -9
103 SPINS
THIS WAS A REAL WHEEL AND I NOW BELIEVE ITS BIAS ON SECTOR A.
14 losses
14x9=126
9 wins
9x27=243
Profit=$117.00
session 4
13 B
27 B
21 A
15 A
29 D
19 A
27 B
9 C
18 D
23 B
3 D
19 A
10 B
12 D
18 D
34 B
11 B
9 C
15 A
15 A
26 D
14 C
17 A
7 D
28 D
8 B
9 C
21 A
10 B
4 A end of 30 spins
A) 09 HITS B) 09 HITS C) 04 HITS D) 08 HITS
THIS IS A HARD ONE AS A, B, AND D HAVE BEEN CONSTANT. I WILL BET A, B AND D.
17 A, BET A
29 D, LOSS -9, BET D
35 D, WIN +27, BET D
14 C, LOSS -9
33 C
7 D, BET D
23 B, LOSS -9, BET B
34 B, WIN +26, BET B
27 B, WIN +26, BET B
29 D, LOSS -10, BET D
17 A, LOSS -9, BET A
32 A, WIN +27, BET A
22 D, LOSS -9, BET D
11 B, LOSS -9, BET B
20 C, LOSS -10
27 B, BET B
8 B, WIN +26, BET B
34 B, WIN +26, BET B
5 C
10 B, BET B
33 C, LOSS -10
35 D, BET D
22 D, WIN +27, BET D
20 C, LOSS -9
7 D, BET D
36 B, LOSS -9, BET B
1 C, LOSS -10
2 A (THIS SECTOR HASNT SHOWED AWHILE SO I WONT BE BETTING ON A ANYMORE)
29 D, BET D
34 B, LOSS -9, BET B
4 A, LOSS -9
14 C
27 B, BET B
1 C, LOSS -9
14 C
19 A
30 B, BET B
29 D, LOSS -9, BET D
1 C, LOSS -9
17 A
33 C
4 A
7 D, BET D
7 D, WIN +27, BET D
3 D, WIN +27, BET D
18 D, WIN +27, BET D
20 C, LOSS -9
7 D, BET D
34 B, LOSS -9, BET B
15 A, LOSS -10
36 B, BET B
10 B, WIN +26, BET B
5 C, LOSS -10
18 D, BET D
1 C, LOSS -9
29 D, BET D
18 D, WINS +27, BET D
5 C, LOSS -9
11 B, BET B
24 C, LOSS -9
25 A
20 C
3 D, BET D
27 B, LOSS -9, BET B
17 A, LOSS -9
4 A
31 C
26 D, BET D
29 D, WIN +27, BET D
14 C, LOSS -9
END OF 100 SPINS
27 LOSSES
27X9 AND 10=249
13 WINS
13X27=351
PROFITS=$101
ON A LIVE WHEEL AND FLAT BETTING.
SESSION 5
16 C
18 D
9 C
15 A
1 C
4 A
6 B
34 B
17 A
21 A
0 A
36 B
13 B
24 C
11 B
32 A
18 D
19 A
17 A
13 B
34 B
2 A
35 D
1 C
15 A
14 C
24 C
30 B
34 B
3 D
1 C end of 30 spins
A) 10 HITS B) 09 HITS C) 08 HITS D) 04 HITS
I WILL PLAY A AND B.
29 D
14 C
27 B, BET B
30 B, WIN +26, BET B
9 C, LOSS -10
17 A, BET A
10 B, LOSS -9, BET B
6 B, WIN +26, BET B
31 C, LOSS -10
26 D
11 B, BET B
0 A, LOSS -10, BET A
20 C, LOSS -9
11 B, BET B
30 B, WIN +26, BET B
28 D, LOSS -10
8 B, BET B
23 B, WIN +26, BET B
22 D, LOSS -10
33 C
16 C
27 B, BET B
15 A, LOSS -10, BET A
10 B, LOSS -9, BET B
15 A, LOSS -10 (I WILL NOT BE BETTING ON A ANYMORE)
27 B, BET B
11 B, WIN +26, BET B
6 B, WIN +26, BET B
22 D, LOSS -10
28 D
1 C
2 A
21 A
35 D
7 D
0 A
13 B, BET B
27 B, WIN +26, BET B
33 C, LOSS -10
20 C
24 C
3 D
6 B, BET B
7 D, LOSS -10
10 B, BET B,
11 B, WIN +26, BET B
33 C, LOSS -9
4 A
25 A
13 B, BET B
23 B, WIN +26, BET B
2 A, LOSS -9
9 C
24 C
6 B, BET B
19 A, LOSS -10
26 D
32 A
6 B, BET B
22 D, LOSS -10
21 A
6 B, BET B
20 C, LOSS -10, BET C (C HASS BEEN DOUBLING UP OFTEN NOW CHANGING TO C)
1 C, WIN +27, BET C
1 C, WIN +27, BET C
34 B, LOSS -9, BET B
22 D
18 D
14 C, BET C
15 A, LOSS -9
END OF 100 SPINS
LOSS 20
20X10=200
WINS 11
26X11=286
PROFITS= $86
Cool! Thanks! I'll take a look at it.
i also would like to say this is only for live wheels now.
also if i got no doubles in the first 30 spins then i would play that table.
theres other factors too.
the win percentage from a sector, if its near 50% then i would presume its bias in some way but i am new to bias so dont crote me on it
i hope it helps mate, this is new so i havent tested it over millions of spins.
the reason why i wont bet if it dosent show some typ of bias or doubles is so i dont get caught by a sleeper on the doubles.
in saying that if there was a sleeper then that sector wouldnt hit anyway.
i would like to do more testing but theres only so much you can do.
anyway im done testing it, i know what to look for, so i will try and figure out how to play this system and my other system together.
if i were to play rng then i would bet the lowest sector, as it always seem to even out.
Quotethis is a interesting concept as i have made a very similar system in another forum except i bet on the sectors that hit the most.
This is what I wanted to say. This way you will never encounter long sleeper sectors.[/size]
Well, i'm trying someting else with this system so to avoid the sleepers that don't show up for a long period of time.
Here is what i'm doing:
For every spin, i play the sector that showed BEFORE the last hit sector.
So, if sector B hit last, and before that, sector C hit, i'll play sector C on the next spin.
Or, if i had B-C-A-A-A (A being the sector that hit last), i'll play sector C. For each spin, i am basically playing a different sector since it changes with every spin.
I have no idea for how long i can go without getting a hit from a B4-Last sector. I guess i'll find out as i continue testing.
I started testing with this new idea (playing the B4 last sector) using the same 1,000 spins i posted here from the Zumma book, and so far i'm up to +1017 profit on the 366th spin. The farthest i went without a hit so far was 15 spins.
While using my progression, my stop loss is 16 consecutive losses.
Of course, as it's being shown, this can also be flat betted as well.
There are some very good ideas within this thread and it would be great to contribute a few thoughts as well and possibly apply to the workshop thread as well if permitted.
I have used a method for some years which uses a nine division for various game of roulette characteristics. That method is complex and uses cluster analysis theory where a current 'wave' of 9-18 elements ( they can be numbers, or finales, or EC, or sections of the wheel, or other ideas) cluster as main expressions from two 'sets' of these elements as outlined. There is usually a core though of 6-12 which cluster. ***
The reason that it works is that there is periodic focus on certain elements in the game and not on others. Some are active, some sleep. Activity ranges from white hot clustering to sleepy ice cold even statistical distribution ( two poles), or from streaky(runs) of same, to choppy ( change). However I believe there is more duration of same than the brief upheavels of chop, so that is why I play streaks.
After a lot of trial and error I found that the best*, most effective and safest, way to play that method was flat staking and learning when to stop and start based on signals and triggers for ABWAB. (* can be short stop progression as well but big bank required and you know the risks of progression - catastrophic failure).
There are easy ways to play sets when they are hot but more complex ways to identify and counter attack the sleepers when they eventually re-appear. With your methods here all that is un-necessary.
What you have done here is a great idea because you focus on only one group, although you say eight elements by eliminating a less likely candidate from the group based on col/ doz behaviour.
That is fine but complex and time consuming to manage live when spins are coming fast maybe unless you are superbly organised ( which you probably are). However I find live casino heat can be stressful at times.
Take the wheel sets as you have described, but maybe rotate a little.
I always think its a great pity zero gets left out, because it has a habit of visiting just when you may not want it. Or like me you may really love zero.
A simple suggestion might be to enhance results on flat staking by having all your groups expand to nine as you are playing for warmth of appearance and overlap at least one of the groups to incorporate zero (or two) at the perimeter, ie all 37 numbers are included.
Every part of the wheel will have its resonances from time to time, and as the essence of roulette is to tune into these short term fruits for effective
harvest, then to collect zero seems a good idea when most people will curse it.
The modification to the rule of play can simply be to target playing at the end of the 6 spin cycle the previously most active set ( say A)within the previous six spins - as this will automatically tune into the resonance theory but in the event of no target being hit either go virtual for a while and wait and see/ or await the third appearance of a new target within say 6 to 12 spins to identify we hope the next top performer.
With flat staking, there is much less stress than with massive risk probablity banks, but you will find the play goes hot and cool, and there are reallly perfect times to hop off, take your (ongoing) profit, and either happily go home, or go virtual for a while, watch and observe that there may be other characteristics you may target in this same game.
It would be great play to set a target goal for your session ( within the sensible range of expectations your testing has demonstrated) and then when this is achieved take the profit unless you are on streak of wins, then keep going! Smaller take but maybe higher unit value is another approach. Stop loss at say (only 100 units) - but test this out.
A final note with this is that play can be really good, but also beware that it can be quite choppy and entropic ( ie anti cluster), and this strangely often crosses over into some of the other sets you might be monitoring. The old adage is that when its bad its really bad, is good advice, and do not hesitate to walk away from such a (temporary) tangle. Its just Nature doing its thing.
*** to give a simple example of multi sets you could for example look at a table layout as well as a wheel layout and identify streets (groups of 3 numbers) as 1,2,3,4 etc or A, B, C, D. With lateral thinking you can apply this idea to many characteristics of the game.
Good points, XX. As for going virtual, I tried that with this system. It's a bit slower, but it seems to work too.
Now, I was just checking the difference in profit when playing 8 numbers instead of 9 numbers. It's quite tempting.
Example: lose 200 spins and win 70 spins.
Result when playing 8 numbers
200x8 = -1,600
70x28 = +1,960
Profit = +360
Result when playing 9 numbers
200x9 = -1,800
70x27 = 1,890
Profit = +90
What a difference!
How often could I get a hit (and lose) on that 1 number i'm removing from each bet with 70 potential wins? Since i'm removing this number from the sleeping Doz and the sleeping Col grid, I need to find out the average that 4-number grid from a sleeping Doz and the sleeping Col shows up. Not only that, when that grid shows up, I must have the right sector showing up for me to lose that potential win. Not a big factor, i'd say (i'm assuming).
In case one chooses to play only 8 numbers, it's pretty easy to know what one is doing with a bit of practice. I've been practicing online with live wheels; I have no problems placing my bets in less than 15 seconds.
Now, here is another idea I was just testing so to avoid the sleepers:
Let's divide the wheel into 4 equal sectors with 9 numbers per each sector.
Now, instead of using these sectors as we have divided them on the wheel, let's create 4 new sectors where each new sector contains 2 to 3 numbers from each of the 4 sectors as we have divided the wheel initially. We are in other words mixing all the numbers from each of the 4 original sectors into 4 new sectors (which we will use instead of the original ones) so to create an even balance in the way the numbers show up. Not only that, by creating this type of balance, we can counter the results from a biased wheel.
Well, at least this is just a thought for now which i'm testing.
Yup, but the flaw in your comparison of course is that the 9th number inclusion will certainly ADD to your sum of wins, and thus (at least) compensate for the difference from eight to nine targets.
Also lets have a bash at the old chestnut 'biased wheels'.
There aren't any any more, nor is there a significant impact from 'Dealer Signature' - the real driver is the wheel itself and its own energy force which in Nature produce the events we witness and marvell at. The number of times I have seen patterns (such as those derived from the methods you are playing here) cross seamlessly over dealer changes, would be 99-1.
The biases, the trends, the short term patterns that we can use in roulette are the natural events of short term phenomena deriving purely from the wheel and occasionally some associated energies which may include the players at times, very different to the long term probability theory outcomes where all nicely balances out. That's no good to us because we would be participating in a negative expectation game. Its only in those short term events we can prosper consistently when we know what we are doing and why things happen.
Over on the workshop thread I will soon discuss 'incremental analysis' (IA)which is a way to see in effect, by use of micro and medium spin samples, what is coming and what's around the corner. Yes seeing into the future.
This application of 8/9/10 numbers on flat staking with a tuned trigger and exit strategy is a very exciting idea. Once you have defined the best parameters and the dust has settled I suggest the favoured 30x100 spin test to see the outcomes. Then an analysis to see how where and when you would achieve reasonable take-outs. That is critical.
What I really like about your approach is the risk v return ratio.
(recently on my own ROBE/BORE theories I conducted 10,000 live spin tests and this gave certainty and the broad parameters of expectations for tuning).
Good Hunting XXVV.
There is something really appealing about this approach - I like the idea of exposing only nine units on the table applied over the nine targets*.
The return of hit to cost ratio is great.
Now to find the best way to ensure we capture that win more often than once in four attempts.
Am trying various ways and will report the best , but it has to be based on a big sample (unfortunately).
I did a recent test on what I thought was so clever on a four spin cycle and in the first 11 sessions achieved in excess of +2 units per spin return! That collapsed from session 12 onwards and although still in positive territory by session 25, the volatility and re-tracement in flat staking was just unacceptable.
A fresh start to research today!
*suggest that one wheel sector has 10 units/numbers to ensure no holes in the net.
if you are covering 9 numbers then maybe track a pattern of 9 numbers and making sure none of your numbers are in there, so that would be the trigger to bet on your numbers.
i havent tried this approach but if you only bet after a trigger (noy sure how long you would have to wait for a trigger), then it gives you 3 losses to 1 win to break even then you could apply progression if they were hitting enouth.
just a thought, i havent tested it yet.
maybe the other way is to bet on the numbers for a hit (so you are catching repeats.
this might be better.
you never see 37 numbers come out in 37 spins so it might be beeter to do this instead.
just a thought
Even the strategy is a little bit different but 4 rigid sectors will belly up soon as so many already tried with rigid sectors. We will see when.
Hermes
You may be right, but maybe not necessarily.
The sectors are rigid but they can be coded so that the current hits, when clustering, can be followed , especially when you combine two sectors, rather than just looking at one which may be just too tough.
So maybe you can select from up to 18 numbers ( they dont have to be all on one side of the wheel), although the key will be to narrow that down where possible to a preferred 9.
This can be done by overlapping another parameter, another variable, such as a felt coding ( eg street position or part EC R/B)
No need to get too complicated but just like the cross hairs on a target sight, the two methods can increase accuracy.
hi carsch
your system is indeed a good one.
could you please identify the largest drawdown in flatbetting, so that we can guess the appropriate bankroll.
thanks
Quote from: catalyst on Feb 21, 07:47 AM 2011
Hi carsch
your system is indeed a good one.
could you please identify the largest drawdown in flatbetting, so that we can guess the appropriate bankroll.
thanks
I checked with the 1,000-spin test I did, the most I was down at one time (flatbetting) was something close to 45 losses (that included a 17 straight losses I had).
That's 45x8=
360 unitsor 45x9=
405 units (if playing 9 numbers)
-----------------------------------
These are my results for the 1,000 spins (american wheel....it's tougher):
W: +684 units flat bets
W: +1,244 with progression (one bust with 16 straight losses)
have you tested it on european wheel instead of american
Hi carsch
thanks for your efforts.
do you like to consider your progression instead of flatbet? in this case Attila's progression once suggested by Victor could be useful. for your convenience i just paste it here:
"This money management is named after a Spanish-speaking player. He explained his belief that with the right progression any bet selection can become profitable.
Atila himself used it with 9 numbers. We wonââ,¬â,,¢t enter into the selection of those numbers, it can be any 9-number group according to him, although he said to have once used numbers 9-12-15-18-21-24-27-30 and 33, but in his own words, -for him- bet selection doesnââ,¬â,,¢t matter too much.
The basic layout for the 9 numbers goes this way:
1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1On a lose, then only 1 number gets a rise, making it:
2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
If another lose, then another number gets risen, while keeping the former one rose:
2.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
Always on a lose, the next number rises, one at a time.
2.2.2.1.1.1.1.1.1
2.2.2.2.1.1.1.1.1
2.2.2.2.2.1.1.1.1
2.2.2.2.2.2.1.1.1
2.2.2.2.2.2.1.1.1
2.2.2.2.2.2.2.1.1
2.2.2.2.2.2.2.2.1
2.2.2.2.2.2.2.2.2
When you finish rising this line with 2ââ,¬â,,¢s, then you move to the 3ââ,¬â,,¢s.
3.2.2.2.2.2.2.2.2
The formula is constant:
3.3.2.2.2.2.2.2.2
Term by term. +1 on a lose.
3.3.3.2.2.2.2.2.2
3.3.3.3.2.2.2.2.2
3.3.3.3.3.2.2.2.2
3.3.3.3.3.3.2.2.2
3.3.3.3.3.3.3.2.2
3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3
And the process keeps on with 4
4.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3
4.4.3.3.3.3.3.3.3
4.4.4.3.3.3.3.3.3
4.4.4.4.3.3.3.3.3
4.4.4.4.4.3.3.3.3
4.4.4.4.4.4.3.3.3
4.4.4.4.4.4.4.3.3
4.4.4.4.4.4.4.4.4
Well, you should have it learned by now. After 4, it continues with 5 for the first term. And so on. Iââ,¬â,,¢ll make 5ââ,¬â,,¢s as last example:
5.4.4.4.4.4.4.4.4
5.5.4.4.4.4.4.4.4
5.5.4.4.4.4.4.4.4
5.5.5.4.4.4.4.4.4
5.5.5.5.4.4.4.4.4
5.5.5.5.5.4.4.4.4
5.5.5.5.5.5.4.4.4
5.5.5.5.5.5.5.4.4
5.5.5.5.5.5.5.5.5
I think it is enough in the example field for comprehension.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Observations originally given:
- Exposition in terms of units can be elevated, but if you want to win at the casino you must play with the right weapons, and one of them is to have enough bank to pull out from the systemââ,¬â,,¢s expected drawdown.
- A minimum of 500 units as bank.
- Win target between +50 to +100.
- When there is a win and you are close to previous high, reset. (I.e. you get a hit and leave -10 or less units below, you go to 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1).
- Sometimes it is advisable to quit the session if after several tries and experiencing several drawdowns you simply canââ,¬â,,¢t get your win target done for the day.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the original ATILA Money management system.
Feel free to make your own tweaks.
Best regards from a friend,
Victor."
hope it will be useful
thanks
catalyst
Quote from: ausjase on Feb 21, 09:49 PM 2011
Have you tested it on european wheel instead of american
Yep! I get better results playing the europen wheel.
Thanks Catalyst. I'll look at it. With this system, i'd rather use a progression.
Here is another test I just did for the European wheel. Result is for ftatbet only.
T2
Date: 2011-02-21
Betting on 9 numbers per spin
53 WINS: +1431
137 LOSSES: -1233
PROFIT: +198
Betting on 8 numbers per spin
50 Wins: +1400
140 Losses: -1220
Profit: +280
********* Gewinnzahlen ********
30
34L
6W
9L
30W
5L
1L
31L
11W
13W
21L
10W
30W
27W
4L
25L
4L
24L
0L
0L
21L
31L
7W
5L
29W
29W
1L
27L
17L
10L
8L
34L
13
6L
18L
25L
11L
27L
28L
12L
1W
5W
18L
17L
31W
30L
14W
29L
7L
13L
28L
26L
12L
32W
19W
22L
0L
35L
33L
30L
10L
12W
5L
14L
19L
17L
23L
12W
36L
34L
23L
18W
34L
30L
12W
30L
0L
2L
33L
4L
23L
35L
33W
2L
32L
6L
30L
7L
0L
13L
1L
0L
5L
17W
20L
32W
19W
3L
3L
36L
4W
22L
10L
19W
10L
28L
24L
11L
15W
24L
28L
32W
26L
32W
17W
23L
16L
15W
32W
36L
23L
27L
0L
6L
25W
6L
0L
16L
33L
10L
6L
12W
30L
5L
30L
34L
16L
32L
0L
14L
34L
30W
22L
36W
25L
4L
8L
27W
27W
2L
34L
23W
36W
20L
32L
18L
33L
25L
28L
31L
27L
18W
22W
10L
23L
17L
7W
26W
35W
35W
1L
28W
8L
5L
3W
22W
36L
12W
4L
30L
23L
25L
27L
32L
13L
7L
28L
20W
35L
1W
20W
36L
22L
4L
29L
7L
6L
how do you choose what number 2 leave out?? and correct me if im wrong but the only time u change sectors is if you go 6 spins without a win then u swap 2 the sector that has hit the furthest back ?
Quote from: Carsch on Feb 21, 09:32 PM 2011
I checked with the 1,000-spin test I did, the most I was down at one time (flatbetting) was something close to 45 losses (that included a 17 straight losses I had).
That's 45x8= 360 units
or 45x9= 405 units (if playing 9 numbers)
-----------------------------------
These are my results for the 1,000 spins (american wheel....it's tougher):
W: +684 units flat bets
W: +1,244 with progression (one bust with 16 straight losses)
hi carsch
you mentioned 405 units lost in flatbetting which include also a straight 16 times losses. so is it your total loss at the end of 1000 spins or during your betting somewhere it went down to cut your bankroll to be -405 units (eg. if your bankroll is 500 units, then your balance is only 95 units in the midst of your 1000 spins)? then please suggest your thoughts regarding bankroll requirement for flatbetting.
as you suggested in your 1st post that your progression require 312 units. do you still suggest that amount through your experiences in travelling through blackhole?
your comments in both cases are much appreciated.
thanks
catalyst
Quote from: ausjase on Feb 22, 02:29 AM 2011
How do you choose what number 2 leave out??
I leave out the number belonging to the Sleeping Dozen, and the sleeping Col.
So let's say we have
8
13
32 <--------- last spun number
From here we know that the sleeping Doz is the first Dozen (1/12)
and the sleeping Column is the 3rd Col (3/36)
Thus you'd eliminate the number (only one in case you have 2 numbers) that belongs to the first Dozen and also belongs to the 3rd Column.
Quoteand correct me if I'm wrong but the only time you change sectors is if you go 6 spins without a win then you swap 2 the sector that has hit the furthest back ?
That's correct.
Quote from: catalyst on Feb 22, 02:32 AM 2011
hi carsch
you mentioned 405 units lost in flatbetting which include also a straight 16 times losses. so is it your total loss at the end of 1000 spins
That was the highest i was down throughout the 1000 spins.
Quoteor during your betting somewhere it went down to cut your bankroll to be -405 units (e.g.. if your bankroll is 500 units, then your balance is only 95 units in the midst of your 1000 spins)?
Yep!
Quotethen please suggest your thoughts regarding bankroll requirement for flatbetting.
Well, the drawdown was from a tough test i'd say (there were so many zeros). I don't know how much further one could lose. If i'd guess, i'd say 500 units?
Quoteas you suggested in your 1st post that your progression require 312 units. do you still suggest that amount through your experiences in travelling through blackhole?
If one is using the progression and wishes to have a stop loss, then maybe 312 units would do it. If not, one could probably double that in case one encounters 16 losses right from the beginning of the game.
I want to make a note here.
When choosing the sector that have hit the least, I am thinking to stop playing that sector if it does not hit for something like 10 consecutive times. This because i've seen sectors not hitting for 25 consecutive times.
However, since we're not always playing the sector that hit the least, our chances to stumble upon that one sector that will not hit for a very long time will minimize. But better be cautious and stop betting on that sector after 10 or so consecutive losses.
Dear carsch,
I have personally faced a very big loss on a sleeper sector of 9 consecutive numbers on the wheel for 55 times. Do not bet sleepers, go opposit and earn from streaks while being safe from sleepers.
Quote from: albalaha on Feb 22, 10:06 AM 2011
Dear carsch,
I have personally faced a very big loss on a sleeper sector of 9 consecutive numbers on the wheel for 55 times. Do not bet sleepers, go opposit and earn from streaks while being safe from sleepers.
I believe that, Albalah. I'm actually looking for ways to make this system safer. Any ideas are welcome. But then, a stop loss could help here as i'm sure one could profit more often than one could lose one's bankroll.
Now, i must be out of my mind, or else, i think i stumbled upon a gold mine system idea. I just started testing and on the 56th spin i'm already up 480 units betting on 8 numbers (nothing to do with numbers from the wheel layout). I think i'm gonna celebrate without any further testing...............i'll then finish testing later on. The feeling right now is too good to not want to celebrate. LOL :D
Quote from: albalaha on Feb 22, 10:06 AM 2011
Dear carsch,
I have personally faced a very big loss on a sleeper sector of 9 consecutive numbers on the wheel for 55 times. Do not bet sleepers, go opposit and earn from streaks while being safe from sleepers.
By the way, Albalaha; was that from playing on a real wheel or was it from an RGN?
That was a real wheel in landbased casino in my last casino trip of Goa. Wheel based methods should not be played in RNG. A prudent man will never go for that.
Quote from: Carsch on Feb 22, 04:35 PM 2011
By the way, Albalaha; was that from playing on a real wheel or was it from an RGN?
How do you define sleepers,aint all numbers sleepers until awaken :)
Well,
to me sleeper is a number which does not turn up winner within its break even period or even after that. For example a single number bet if doesnt come within 37 spins can assumed to be a sleeper. For other set of numbers like dozen/column/line/street/sectors etc I give them double the time than their break even periods. It is my way of defining a sleeper.
There is only on fundamental formula of roulette or othe gamblings of chance, which I say as "Law of uneven distribution", which says all numbers/set of numbers although have equal probability to appear every spin but they don't usually. If there can be a regular even distribution, there will be no gambling.
Another test.
130 Spins
Betting on 8 numbers using progression
Profit: +360
Flatbetting on 8 numbers
37 wins x 28 = 1036
93 losses x 8 = - 744
Profit: +292
Flatbetting on 9 numbers
Profit: +162
Tisch: T2
Datum: 2011-02-22
********* Gewinnzahlen ********
N Z R
14
25L-8
19L-16
18L-24
11L-32
7L-40
27L-56
33L-72
24L
34W+12
8L
26L
17W+24
27L
7L
6L
18L
21W+20
30L
25W+40
16L
34W+60
36L
14L
1L
19W+64
29L
15W+84
8L
0L
19W+96
21W+124
35L
36L
14L
13L
22L+84
17W+140
4W+168
5L
11L
22L
29L
27L+128
12L
25L+96
12L
0L+48
15L
18L
21L+0
8W+84
28L
26L
35L
18L
20L+44
3L
0L+12
35L
20L-36
36L
30L
15W-12
31L
29L
20L
13L
8L-52
12L
9W-12
24W+16
7L
29L
5W+28
13L
32L
34L
16W+32
18L
24W+52
11L
23L
34L
31W+56
20W+84
28L
29L
15L
5W+88
24W+116
21L
16W+136
20W+164
10L
14W+184
3L
12L
27L
32L
11L+144
36L
11L+112
25L
29W+172
30L
3W+192
1L
25L
12W+204
7W+232
30L
3W+252
11L
3W+272
30L
34L
13L
22W+276
28W+304
34L
15L
19L
7W+308
24L
21L
26W+320
28W+348
11L
14L
3W+360
Quote from: albalaha on Feb 23, 12:33 AM 2011
Well,
to me sleeper is a number which does not turn up winner within its break even period or even after that. For example a single number bet if doesn't come within 37 spins can assumed to be a sleeper. For other set of numbers like dozen/column/line/street/sectors etc I give them double the time than their break even periods. It is my way of defining a sleeper.
There is only on fundamental formula of roulette or othe gamblings of chance, which I say as "Law of uneven distribution", which says all numbers/set of numbers although have equal probability to appear every spin but they don't usually. If there can be a regular even distribution, there will be no gambling.
I get your point but then again doesnt all numbers even out at one point then get disperse again..37 being use as cycle maybe its not really a cycle at all,we use it because of Maths???Just a crazy thought.
QuoteI get your point but then again doesnt all numbers even out at one point then get disperse again..37 being use as cycle maybe its not really a cycle at all,we use it because of Maths???Just a crazy thought.
Offcourse in a long run all numbers even out but not within 37 spins or even within 100 spins, which we can practically play as a session.
One thing i found out; if you're gonna play flat bets, in the long run it's best to use 9 numbers instead of 8 numbers.
If using my progression, 8 numbers is fine.
A bit confused, Carsch. I have been following the thread with great interest but I am now confused on how you play the system. Do you use the same numbers provided in your first post and if so how do you play them? Thank you!
When flat staking, which we all agree is the safest way to play ( at the compromise of sometimes smaller returns in the short to medium term), it may be helpful to graph the number and duration of outcomes so as to determine the ideal 'cut-off' point in playing flat targets.
Sometimes it is a bit counter-intuitive in that you actually do better by 'over-shooting' your target and taking a small loss by actually hitting the target, rather than cutting too early and taking a bigger loss.
However only by research will you find out in each unique method of play and their parameters what the ideal exit points are.
Best is when you can zero in and hit on the first spin!
I still also believe ( some will disagree) that you will be wise to have one set go to ten numbers and incorporate zero. Then no holes in the net.
Where exactly are you confused, Drogan?
Quote from: XXVV on Feb 25, 05:07 PM 2011
I still also believe ( some will disagree) that you will be wise to have one set go to ten numbers and incorporate zero. Then no holes in the net.
You could be right, XX. It's all a matter of testing and finding out what works best. I'm still testing different ways to play this system. :)
Good Luck. This is a very fertile line of research and play. Looking forward to seeing your ongoing returns. Yes, testing is time consuming and is a nightmare when you are testing flat and your previous bright idea goes belly up - but I think here with right sensitivity as to entry/ exit points you are onto a winner because you are following the energies of trends and streaks in play and this will give short term edge.
Caution though because I think there are times to enter and times to exit, as when the temperature goes hot to cool in the forces that stir the pot. We are actually looking for times when there is not too much change because we want streaks of the SAME in order to harvest a string of winners. But then get off the merry go round because the music will have stopped.
There are experts who wisely say you will not find a continuous method - it will go hot n cold, and the reality is you just have to learn to read the current phase and then act accordingly. Easy to say I know but that is step one to actually understand and express. The actions follow. That is a life principle.
Quote from: XXVV on Feb 25, 05:45 PM 2011
Caution though because I think there are times to enter and times to exit, as when the temperature goes hot to cool in the forces that stir the pot. We are actually looking for times when there is not too much change because we want streaks of the SAME in order to harvest a string of winners. But then get off the merry go round because the music will have stopped.
You're damn right. I wonder, however, how many of us will do that. ;D
Hi Carsch
thanks for your continous feedback for us. according to your previous posts, you mentioned two types of bet selection. one is ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
before last and the other is ''''''''''''''''''''''''follow the last....number in the sector. do you suggest mixing of the two?
any other bet selection in your mind?
thanks for your generosity with this great system.
catalyst
Quote from: catalyst on Feb 25, 09:12 PM 2011
Hi Carsch
thanks for your continous feedback for us. according to your previous posts, you mentioned two types of bet selection. one is ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
before last and the other is ''''''''''''''''''''''''follow the last....number in the sector. do you suggest mixing of the two?
any other bet selection in your mind?
thanks for your generosity with this great system.
catalyst
Although I don't think it matters how you select your sector (as long as your consistent with the same way you select them), for now i'm sticking with the one you go with one sector for 6 spins, and if you don't get a hit, go with the sleeper (doesn't have to be the sleeper, really).
I'm working on other bet selections. The one i'm working with right now and i'm getting a bunch of hits (tested with 500 spins so far) goes like this:
Play the sector located to the Right of the sector which hit last for 2 spins.
If no hit, play the sector to the Left of that same one sector for 2 spins.
If no hit, play that sector itself for 2 spins
If no hit, start over but using the sector that hit last as your reference sector
Example:
I list the sectors in this order: A, B, C, D
Sector B is on the right side of Sector A
Sector C is on the right side of sector B
sector D is on the right side of sector C
Sector A is on the right side of sector C
Sector C is on the Left side of sector A.........and so on
So.........let's say sector C hit last. Thus you'll use it as your reference sector and you play the following sectors in the order shown below:
Play sector D for 2 spins.........if no hit
Play sector B for 2 spins..........if no hit
Play sector C for 2 spins..........if no hit
Start the process over using the last hit sector as your reference sector
Any time you get a hit, use the sector that hit last as your reference sector
Well, this is just one of a few other ideas i'm working on for this system.
The whole idea here is to figure out a way to avoid the long losing streaks.
This is an outstanding way to play, but I play a double zero wheel and cover 11 numbers total.
For some reason it just keeps chugging along on Betphoenix double zero wheel.
Good Job Carsch.
Stuart
I cover 11 numbers total that includes the Zero and Double Zero, and the sector, they seem to show up when you least expect them too, like old friends who want to tell you about AMWAY lol.
Would this progression work on eleven numbers.
1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10
Total 682.00 if the progression busts.
At least I think that is correct lol.
Stuart
Stuart, that's a lot of money to risk, it seems to me..........cause for sure, I know you will many times go more than 11 spins without getting a hit.
I've been trying something else with this. I use RE (red even), RO (red odd), BE (black even), BO (black odd) group selections.
There are either 8 or 10 numbers per group. So, that's an average of 9 numbers you'll be betting on.
First I bet the sector of the wheel that hit last.
If I don't get a hit within 6 spins, I bet the numbers belonging to one of the groups listed above.
Personally i'll bet on a group of different color from the last number spun, but of same Odd/Even as that last number. If no hits within 6 spins, I switch to the sector of the wheel that hit last.
The results are pretty much the same to what i've getting with the system posted here. I haven't probably tested it enough for me to tell how good it is though.
Quote from: Carsch on Mar 06, 07:51 PM 2011
I've been trying something else with this. I use RE (red even), RO (red odd), BE (black even), BO (black odd) group selections.
There are either 8 or 10 numbers per group. So, that's an average of 9 numbers you'll be betting on.
First I bet the sector of the wheel that hit last.
If I don't get a hit within 6 spins, I bet the numbers belonging to one of the groups listed above.
Personally i'll bet on a group of different color from the last number spun, but of same Odd/Even as that last number. If no hits within 6 spins, I switch to the sector of the wheel that hit last.
The results are pretty much the same to what i've getting with the system posted here. I haven't probably tested it enough for me to tell how good it is though.
I also was experimenting with that.I track 6 spins for RO,RE,BO,BE and play dominant.If 2 group of hits present i play furthest back in that 6 spins.Another 9 numbers group play is street 1,2,3 play as a 9 number group,4,5,6 as 9 numbers etc.. I track 6 spins and play dominant.With a progression 1,1,2,2,3,4
Seykid.
I had tried the streets, for some reason i wasn't getting good results, so i dropped it.
I just did a test with 575 spins on the american wheel
Betting that the last sector (9 numbers) will repeat on the next spin
Profit flat betting: +621
161 Wins
414 Losses
Drawdown: 180 units or so
Highest amount of spins lost in a row: 17
I think i'll stick with this bet selection instead of the other ones (must be from a real wheel)
Betting that the last hit sector will repeat on the next spin didn't do so good with these spins from Germany
310 Spins
67 Wins x 27 = 1809
243 Losses x 9 = 2,187
Profit flat betting: -378
One 25-loss in a row
One 19-loss in a row
One 16-loss in a row
Tisch: T3
Datum: 2011-03-09
********* Gewinnzahlen ********
18
19L
1
12
34
16
9W
27
14
28
2
32W
12
24
6
19
12
26W
31
15
18
1
3
18W
1
14W
8
31
13
32
4W
17W
26
12W
5
12
20
17
13
24
29
2
28
14
27
31
12
11
11W
7
35W
13
15
9
8
0
33
22
10
29
15
29
11
17
5
28
10
12
21
22
2
0
22
27
7
7W
33
2
13
33
17
14
12
19
10
3
25
2W
3
1
26
0
33
19
30
4
15W
11
29
20
15
22
1
20W
20W
22
16
27
22
23
36W
28
36
35
12W
29W
33
20W
17
9
1W
16W
31W
13
2
28
6
22
1
7
8
28
17
36
34
1
12
9
13
24
15
15W
24
16W
1W
12
24
24W
2
26
9
14W
6
6W
12
24
27
27W
10W
3
7W
32
31
16W
29
32
7
29W
28W
28W
35W
15
20
24W
36
31
21
11
34
8
30W
3
19
6
9
19
15W
6
20
24W
17
2W
25W
28
36
17
23
27W
17
6
33
26
29W
26W
28W
2
20
15
35
35W
14
7
15
18
11
23W
8W
3
11
18
30
1
10
32
11
22
12W
2
4W
25W
28
27
12
32
8
5
29
1
30
35
10
7
31
8
16
24W
28
28W
4
23
5
26
26W
6
14
22
16
28
13
25
34W
30
31
24W
35
22W
17
7
19
5
15
20
15
11
23W
24
19
21W
11
10W
23W
1
28
23
14
22
26W
20
34
14
22
6
8W
3
20
24W
15
36
29
16
0
9W
16W
17
6
17
29
0
25
16
3
why dont you make a big bet after or start betting after 15 virtual losses, or 20 then make the size of the bets bigger or something like that.
hi carsch
your continuous feedbacks are much appreciated. i am considering your previous bet selection which uses the right side of the sector as you mentioned earlier post could be beneficial with your 16 step progressio:
Sector B is on the right side of Sector A
Sector C is on the right side of sector B
sector D is on the right side of sector C
Sector A is on the right side of sector C
Sector C is on the Left side of sector A.........and so on.
whats your comments on that?
thanks
catalyst
Quote from: darrynf on Mar 10, 04:43 PM 2011
Why don't you make a big bet after or start betting after 15 virtual losses, or 20 then make the size of the bets bigger or something like that.
That sounds like a good idea, Darryin; but the thing is, i've seen those losing streaks going over 25 spins. As for starting my bets after 15/20 virtual losses, I could be waiting forever for that to happen.
The test on that particular bet selection didn't do bad at all, Catalyst. I'll have to look at it again and see how it does flatbetting - it must do well flatbetting for me to consider it. Then yesterday I also did another test with 500 spins using the one sector that had the most hits in the last 4/6 spins - that didn't do good.
Quote from: Carsch on Mar 11, 03:02 PM 2011
That sounds like a good idea, Darryin; but the thing is, i've seen those losing streaks going over 25 spins. As for starting my bets after 15/20 virtual losses, I could be waiting forever for that to happen.
so we know the problem, how do we fix this.
how high can your progression go ?
also mate if it didnt do well one time dosent mean its not good, if it wins more then it losses then its good.
what about flat betting and only using progression to get your loss money back.
im not sure how you are playing this anymore, how are you playing this ?
if you getting a sector that hasnt hit for awhile then why are you playing it, i thought you only play what is hitting.
maybe if it loss the first time switch to a different sector and play it.
im not really sure how you are playing it anymore
maybe flat bet till you win, increase your bet after a win if lose go back to flat betting, on a win increase your bet and if win again increase you bet progression and after so many wins in a row reset.
this dose very well but need alot of win streaks but trie it anyway it might help
Quote from: darrynf on Mar 12, 10:42 PM 2011
so we know the problem, how do we fix this.
how high can your progression go ?
also mate if it didn't do well one time dosent mean its not good, if it wins more then it losses then its good.
My progression goes up to 16 spins. That's 312 units. But most of the time, you will win much more than you can lose. So, it's no big deal when you lose a session. In the long run, you'll be always ahead.
Quote from: darrynf on Mar 12, 10:54 PM 2011
What about flat betting and only using progression to get your loss money back.
I've tried the flat betting. But using a progression seems to be a better choice here. It's actually less risky, and you profit much more than using a flat bet.
QuoteI'm not sure how you are playing this anymore, how are you playing this ?
I've been trying different ways just to see what works best. However, i've been trying to go by feeling and instinct alone (live play), and i seem to do good that way. Kind of going with what i see happening.
Quoteif you getting a sector that hasn't hit for awhile then why are you playing it, I thought you only play what is hitting.
The original idea is to play what hit last for 6 spins, and if no hit, go with what hasn't hit. It actually seems to work best that way (at least better than the other ways).
Quotemaybe flat bet till you win, increase your bet after a win if lose go back to flat betting, on a win increase your bet and if win again increase you bet progression and after so many wins in a row reset.
this dose very well but need a lot of win streaks but trie it anyway it might help
That's an idea. I'll consider it.
hi carsch
according to your previous post:
"My progression goes up to 16 spins. That's 312 units. But most of the time, you will win much more than you can lose. So, it's no big deal when you lose a session. In the long run, you'll be always ahead."
so are you referring to your static bet selection which you posted in the beginning of your post? or
you refer to the dunamic bet selection which changes after every two bets (Sector B is on the right side of Sector A, Sector C is on the right side of sector B etc.)?
i think your dynamic bet selection could be kingpin. your comments are appreciated.
thanks
catalyst
Quote from: catalyst on Mar 13, 11:48 PM 2011
so are you referring to your static bet selection which you posted in the beginning of your post?
Yes, to the original bet selection.