Hello to everyone! This is my first post on this forum and that is why is so long. Sory about that. First of all i have to apologize for my not so good english, but i hope you will understand me. Please correct me on anything i do or say wrong.
I will later in the post explain my system, of course that is why i choosed this subject. But please, allow me to tell you in short my story about roullete. It is imoprtant.
I am 23 years old student of economics faculty in Croatia. I am relative newbie in this thing, beacuse i started to study roulette a few months ago. But in that time i was spending up to 7-8 hours a day studying all mathematical and statistical facts about roulette. . (And of course they were all saying that roulette is in long term unbeatable). That game was magical for me and i was infatuated by this game. ( So please dont underestimate me about knowing all that facts about roulette). But deep down i felt the desire to beat him. I have red almost anything i could find about roulete and i have tried a hundredths of systems. Most of them i tested,were based on some kind of progression. . Of course all of them failed at some point, because of the table limits. Some of them were more successful than the others, but that wasnt enough for me. I wanted more, i wanted to beat him every time. Although I never knew how I felt that it is possible. . . I was looking for something I could use against him. . and now i think i found that. . . It is based on the Law of the third. Although of course I knew about it, and some systems are based on that, I have never seen anyone is using all advantages of this, earlier. Sorry I have not read plenty posts on this forum, but if there is this system like this please tell me. Any suggestion or correction is welcome. And now my idea.
As you know The law of third affects on every random occurrence in nature, and of course on randomly throwed roulette ball. As it effects on the wheel of the roulette it should also affect on the board too, precisely on the positions of the numbers. It is all conected thanks to that law. . . . Let me try to explain you how. . . Huh this is the difficult part but i hope you will understand me. I ll do my best. (because of my average english).
Many variations can be done with this, but i will explain to you how did i figured this out on original example. Lets take an example on first 37 roulette spins. Folowing the law of the third you all know how many approximatly numbers will show up, and how many will be sleepers. Aprox. 1/3 of course will be sleepers. And if we look at the table through the thirds ( i mean dozens), we will see that numbers in the dozens are also hit by that principle. You all know that in 37 spins is imposible that in any of dozens wont be sleepers. . . it cant be that in 37 spins all numbers in at least one dozen are hit. (I will explain all of this on real numbers later. ) Bearing in mind that the law of the third act constantly, I wondered if that would not be expected to act in the next 37 spins. For now I am focused on sleepers only, but i think that applies to repeaters also. . . Just focused on sleepers for now.
Now i will give an example with real numbers taken from â€Ã...“ random. org â€Ã...¾
Ok the first 37 spins are:
14 29 31 15 19 32 13 34 8 7
10 9 13 32 16 9 31 1 26 21
18 12 8 31 19 0 21 36 1 8
36 6 29 10 4 15 34
We record the sleepers:
1. dozen sleepers: 2 3 5 11
2. dozen sleepers: 17 20 22 23 24
3. dozen sleepers: 25 27 28 30 33 35
We have 15 numbers that didnt show up. . . And if the law of the third acts all the time, these numbers should behave similary in next 37 spins. Wright? So now I know that 2/3 of these sleepers will show up in next 37 spins. When we look in dozens, that means that we must have 2/3 hitten sleepers in every dozen also. Wright? Example: if we have 4 sleepers in the first dozen we can expect that that number of sleepers will occur in ratio 2/3. So 4*2/3= 2. 4. we expect to have at least 2 hits in next 37 spins for sleeper numbers in first dozen. We do the same thing for every dozen. 2nd dozen: 5 sleepers *2/3= 3 so here we expect 3 hits minimum. 3. Dozen: 6*2/3=3. 6 and that is 3. Of course in some dozens will be much more hits. I ll explain that also, but later. We dont know which dozen is that going to be, and in that we are not interested, but the thing that protect us from unnecessary risking is that we know that 2/3 of the sleepers will have a hit in every dozen. Maybe now you will say what is new in that, we can bet on sleepers, eventualy they will be hit. . . But, since we expect a certain number of hits in every dozen we can take the numbers in each dozen individually and bet on them like they are only numbers we are betting on in 37 spins. Example of 1. Dozen: we have 4 unhit numbers, and we expect at least 2 hits in 37 spins. So that means that we can use much better (safer, longer) progression, than we bet on all sleepers together. If I use profit calculator, with minimun profit (this was tested on unibet, min. Bet 1 max 25 per number) i can get 32 steped progression, and i know that first sleeping number in my first dozen must show up in 2/3 of spins. So 25. Spin is the latest spin in which should first number appear. And i have 32 steps for that. Much more, you see. ïÃ,ÂÃ... When i hit the first of expected numbers, i reset progression or recalculate it. And when i hit last expected in dozen, I stop. No matter on which spin i am. And continue playing like that with the remaining numbers in dozens which are not hitted as many times I expected. I did my best to explain this, but still i owe you real example.
After we have tracked first 37 spins, wrote sleepers, and calculated their progressions. (i use tools on loothog. com for that) we can run next 37 spins and start betting.
Now i will write next 37 spins and explain progression and try to explain how this works in practice.
You have to follow all sleeping numbers individualy, but within dozens. (i hope you understand)
28 33 4 12 0 9 22 36 2 17
28 1 24 33 3 20 0 3 0 35
33 9 16 30 21 14 4 34 18 25
7 1 34 30 13 16 8
In the first dozen i have 4 sleepers and I expect 2 hits.
I already said that i can make 32 step progression whith 4 numbers
In the 2nd dozen, there are 5 sleepers, I can use 25 stepped progression, but appearance of the first number has to be for 1/3 earlier than if there are 4 sleepers.
For the third, we have 6 sleepers, we can use 21 stepped progression max, but the time of the first number appearance is 1/3 earlier than with 5 sleepers, and that means that first number must appear latest by 12th spin and of course diference between 2 hitted number cant be more than 12 spins. . Now lets see. Down i will write, sleepers and next to them spin when some of them from that dozen was hitted. As the next 37 spins were going, i was just waiting and carefuly watched the progression. . .
I ll explain each dozen and number individualy so you can better get it. , ok DOZEN 1:
We know which are our sleepers and we wait them to be hitted. Follow the 2nd spin cycle from the above
2 --number that has first hit from this dozen and that is at 9. Spin (+32 in my progression) than i reset progression and wait for the second hit. . . . that happened at 15. Spin. . . i hit number 3 and beacuse i reset the progresion that was 6. step of progression (15-9=6) you get it? And that is +6 units more at that step of progression . All together 32+6 =38 ,and here is the point where i stop for this dozen
3
5
11
As you can see from the numbers later, number 3 was hitted again in 18. Spin but at that time i have already stopped, because i got 2 expected hits, and I didnt want to unnecessarily risk. Numbers 3, 5, 11 werent hit at this cycle, but law of the third is respected. I hope you see it.
Now lets see 2nd dozen. Sleepers were 17 20 22 23 24 â€ââ,¬Å" we expect 3 hits here nad we have 25 step max progression.
Ok, first hit from this dozen happened on 7. Spin, number 22 ( 7th step in progression, +1 unit, we reset progression,start from begining or we recalculate it)
2nd hit was number 17 on 10. Spin and by the progression for this dozen that means step 3 (diference between 7th and 10th hitted spin is 3) (profit +21 unit)
For the 3rd hit we didnt had to wait for too long. As you can see it happend on spin 13. and with this hit we have got our 3rd expected hit, and we are removing all our bets from this dozen. . . In progression this is also step 3 (2nd hitted spin 10. and 3rd on 13. spin so diference is again 3, that means 3 step i progression and again profit +21) Total profit for this dozen is (1+21+21= 43 units)
As you can see and here we have one hit more than we have expected,(16. spin number 20) like in 1st dozen, but this is not our concern, beacuse, by the law of the third we couldnt guarante more than 3 hits.
Ok, last dozen. 6 sleepers, expect to hit 3, and i have said that first number has to show up in max 12 spin , and the diference between 2 most farthest hitted number is of course also 12, logical. I hope you understand all of this by now. . . just pure following of The law of the third as i explained before. . .
And let see the numbers and hits. . . I ll try to explain one more time, what i think is the most important when you follow this law. . . This is the dozen in wich we have the most sleepers. . 6 of them (25,27,28,30,33,35) When we put 6 numbers in our progression calculator, it gaves us max of 21 step progression
Now lets see. . . .
1st hit for the 3rd dozen came up on 1. Spin ïÃ,ÂÃ... (number 28, 1st step of progression +30 units. )
2nd hit we have on 2nd spin. Number 33, (after restart on the first win, this is also 1. Step so +30 units again)
3rd hit happened on 11th spin (number 28 again- that is 9th step in progression and that is +24 units) 3 hits accomplished. Stop.
Total of 30+30+24=85 units for this dozen
Total profit from all 3 dozens: 38 units(1st dozen) + 43 units(2nd dozen) + 85 units (3rd dozen) =166
Now something interesting, if you look at the rest of the numbers for this dozen. . . . You will see that we had 9 hits in this (3rd) dozen. And I stopped at the third hit. . . Why? Because distrubution like this could happen in any of dozen. . . I cant tell in which dozen is going to be the most of the hits, and that is not important. But after all of this i can tell you one more thing. We completed our game in just 15 spins. You get it how? We got all of our needed hits by that spin. . . And sugar for the end of explanation of this system. At the start we had 15 numbers (sleepers). Now look at these numbers after 74th spin. . . .
1st dozen numbers 5 11 stays unhit
2nd dozen numbers 23 27 stays unhit
3rd dozen number 27 stays
4 out of 15. Hm. . isnt that close to 1/3? Yap! How are they distributed? I hope you see this, this law is magical. . . And apply this in the next 37 spins, and you will hit again 2/3 of these sleepers that have left. . . That means at least 3 numbers out of these 5. Apply appropriate progression and bum. Do i need to say that i continued as i just suggested, and The Law of the Third just did the rest? :)
Similar variant of this system is that you can do this with dozen, double dozens. . . But about that later. . . There are many ways of betting and many ways of using this method.
Wow, finaly the end. . . Once again i apologize for my english, i ll try to make it better, i promise.
One little confession at the end. . . I already said that i am a newbie in this, at least in terms of playing for real money. . . I have never played this system for real money, and i tested it most on RNG-s, but i made a few tests with numbers from live casino, and all passed smoothly too.
And dont laugh at me, but i have some basic questions about some thing, that i dont understand.
Why are there some systems that are not for RNG? Does that means that RNG-s are cheating at some point?
Any kind of suggestion, question, lesson is welcomed. Test this, tell me if i am wrong at some point maybe?Be free to PM me at any time. I am new at this, but l want to learn, to improve my game. I want to help and to learn at this forum as much as i can. Is it okay to notice that members like Johnlegend, ScoobyDoo,Hermes for example know about roulette very very much? :) Regards
Drazen
Hi and welcome :)
Thanks for posting your system and RNG is not Roulette. Play real wheel to get real result :) just a friendly advice from me. RNG is a program just like the slots.
Cheers
Jon
Lipi moj DraÃ…Ã,¾ene,
Your English is quite fluent/as if you from there...LOL/
and there is lot of logic in your sayings of which we
here are aware of for long time.......but/most/of the players are inpatient
waiting and writing 37 spins,me for one,but am sure that you will find
lot of ppl.interested in your method.
Welcome on the board.
Thank you guys :)
DC,
Thanks for your system. It is a very well thought out. As Flat said it is a lot of tracking, but if it works on a-consistent basis, it is always worth tracking for a winning bet.
How much have you tested this? Do your test indicate it is a winner?
Lol
G
Hm. i did over 50 tests. . and they all passed good. But on RNG-s most. I ll take some live casino numbers and than do some more serious tests. Honestly, i am very scared of RNG-s :ooh: i dont trust them even though someone will say that there is no diference. . . But I think that the system in theory should be just as i tryed to describe. . . hm. . We will see i hope so
drazen...
interesting take on things here. may i suggest that you go to the ACTUAL SPIN SECTION in this forum, tons of live spins for testing. let us know how it goes on those
Oh i see now. Thank you i will do the tests.
hi welcome on the forum.
very intersting post, you said you did 50 sessions how many placed bets is it ?
In my opinion there is no problem with RNG they don't need to cheat because 99,9999% of systems are loosers.
Incredible Drazen.
You have really understood how to read random's law and formed an extraordinary system.
My deepest respect.
Maybe u can explain a littel bit more on your progression system, and why u stop playing a Dozen when a number repeats instead to continue untill the 2/3 is filled.
1st hit for the 3rd dozen came up on 1. Spin ïÃ,ÂÃ... (number 28, 1st step of progression +30 units. )
2nd hit we have on 2nd spin. Number 33, (after restart on the first win, this is also 1. Step so +30 units again)
3rd hit happened on 11th spin (number 28 again- that is 9th step in progression and that is +24 units) 3 hits accomplished. Stop.
Drazen....
A couple quick questions...
1. Do you play a separate progression on each set of numbers in each dozen?
2. Would it not be better to only bet the dozen that has the most un-hit numbers in it?
3. Can you do continuous play at the same wheel, or only 1 cycle per wheel?
Hi Drazen
Thanks for sharing your system.
This seems very interesting and have some logic behind it, I will report back with some results or some questions :)
166 units in profit after 74 spins. . . i will take it anytime. I don't even mind waiting 37 spins.
Interesting concept Drazen.
i still would like to know a little bit more about progression you use.
Oh i see now, very well noticed. I was quite tired when i was finisihg that first post, and when i was testing the system at that time i just overviewed that. Yes in that case only, you can add one number more. We stop whenever are 2/3 satisfied.
Hi Big Ez
1. yes you got it well, i play separate progression on each set of numbers in each dozen
2. No. The law of the third equals for every part of the table, so analog to that, we can take a advantage of that in every dozen. We can gain more profit with this. If we play only the dozen with most sleepers, that does not gives us any more or less chance to win.
3. Continuos of course
Hello Fripper
Yes please, do the tests an let me know all about it.
Regards
Quote from: Fripper link=topic=4960. msg49598#msg49598 date=1303848719
Hi Drazen
Thanks for sharing your system.
This seems very interesting and have some logic behind it, I will report back with some results or some questions :)
Oh yes one little thing i forgot to tell you. Fripper reminded me just :) It is about progression. As an example i took the longest posiblle progresion but i forgot to tell you about her beauty :). With longest progression you have 3/3 of the progression of course, and by the theory for all of that we need just 2/3, right? So 1/3 of the maximum (longest posible) progression we dont need in fact. And that means that we can recalculate it to fit in 2/3. More money. . . 1/3 always ahead roulette
But guys one more thing. . . I just wonder if this idea is so great, as it first seems, how powerful system can be created based on this? Because all numbers in all parts of the roulette acts like this in theory. I used sleepers, but is possible to use repeaters or the ones which hit only 1 time in 37 spins. They should all act by this law in my theory, right? And what if we could combine all 3 of them? And play with them at the same time. . . That would be very complicated system, quite hard to track, but very very powerfull, like atomic bomb :) haha just a thought. . .
Any way, plenty of tests still should be done before any conclusions. . .
Regards
Drazen
Hi Drazen,
Welcome to the forum. I like your logic regarding your system. You know, it always amazes me when I here people say they don't like to track numbers or wait.
Before you can get to the "GOLD" you must first dig for it. In other words, you have to do a little work to get the payoff. Even when they have a history board to give them part of the numbers, they will complain because they have to track numbers. Its ridiculous thinking but hey! What are ya' gonna do?
If someone played your system once a day with the right sized units, they would win more than what they make at their jobs so I don't understand what people are complaining about having to track numbers.
I would like to see a lot of testing from people on this thread. I believe this is one of the better systems I have seen here. This is a way of looking at Law of the Third in a New way. In the past, the Law of the Third has not been very easy to nail down and make work on a consistant manner but I think this modis operendi has some real merit.
Come on guys...lets give Drazen some help on this.
Scooby Doo
Hi Drazen,
I think it would be a good idea to tell or help everyone how you came up with the progressions or maybe you have a place where you got them.
Without these, the members won't take part in the testing I'm sure.
Scooby Doo
Hi,
After a number is hit from a dozen, do you remove that number and bet the remaining numbers or you continue betting all the initial sleepers?
DC,
Since you are expecting 2/3rds of your sleepers to hit in the next 37 spins shouldn't your progression be calculated to last for 37 spins? Thanks for posting this interesting system!
^-^
Have U tried testing this idea at Bet Voyager yet?
Its a very different type of RNG, with good consistent numbers.
Try it.
U may be surprised! ;)
hello drazen and many thanks for sharing your method with the forum.
with regards to your progression, i suppose on some occasions you will have 3 different progressions going along, side by side.
for example, if you had say 12 numbers as sleepers from your first 37 spins, you could be betting with a progression for 2 numbers, 6 numbers and 4 numbers.
couldn't you take 2 of the numbers from the 6 and join them in with the 2 and so then you have 3 progressions all the same, ie for 4 numbers?
it wouldn't always work out the same obviously, but you could always work it out so that you only had 2 different progressions running at most.
if we had 14 sleepers we could have 2 x4 number progression and a 6.
just my random thoughts, trying to add something to this already excellent idea. probably you've already thought about this, or maybe it's not workable.
thanks again for sharing,
cheers.
Quote from: ScoobyDoo link=topic=4960. msg49621#msg49621 date=1303862818
Hi Drazen,
Welcome to the forum. I like your logic regarding your system. You know, it always amazes me when I here people say they don't like to track numbers or wait.
Before you can get to the "GOLD" you must first dig for it. In other words, you have to do a little work to get the payoff. Even when they have a history board to give them part of the numbers, they will complain because they have to track numbers. Its ridiculous thinking but hey! What are ya' gonna do?
If someone played your system once a day with the right sized units, they would win more than what they make at their jobs so I don't understand what people are complaining about having to track numbers.
I would like to see a lot of testing from people on this thread. I believe this is one of the better systems I have seen here. This is a way of looking at Law of the Third in a New way. In the past, the Law of the Third has not been very easy to nail down and make work on a consistant manner but I think this modis operendi has some real merit.
Come on guys. . . lets give Drazen some help on this.
Scooby Doo
Thank you Scooby Doo for helping me. Yes i told, i have never seen that someone is using The law of the third at this way. And when i came up to that idea, at first i couldnt belive that this realy works, because in hundreths of tested systems and methods, i havent seen anything similar to this.
Regards
Drazen
Quote from: Bazeegar on Apr 26, 08:12 PM 2011
Hi,
After a number is hit from a dozen, do you remove that number and bet the remaining numbers or you continue betting all the initial sleepers?
I play on initial sleepers all the time.
Regards
Drazen
Quote from: dennisbelle on Apr 26, 09:50 PM 2011
DC,
Since you are expecting 2/3rds of your sleepers to hit in the next 37 spins shouldn't your progression be calculated to last for 37 spins? Thanks for posting this interesting system!
Well, no. In my first post i described how we can know when to expect first latest hit. When we have more numbers to hit,max progression has less steps but frequency of hitting is thicker.
Regards
Quote from: drazen_cro on Apr 27, 04:12 AM 2011
I play on initial sleepers all the time.
Regards
Drazen
Hi and welcome :)
One question from me, why do you continue to bet the initial sleeper
after its hit ?
Thanx for sharing your thoughts and ideas :thumbsup:
Ok my friends, couple of thoughts now... I have to tell you this, this is completely diferent way of consideration on roulette....I know someone of you will maybe mock me on this, or maybe say that i am weirdie. But before that, try to understand what am i saying. Please.
On al this forums, roulette is considered as enemy. Ok. Most of us has some enemys and we want to destroy them on some kind of way... Nature of roulette is very powerful thing. But roulette in his pure form is realy kind. These stupid casinos took that powerful nature, and made it aggressive. How? Well, we all know that roulette in his pure form is without zero. He is made for science, for studying probability by B. Pascal. 0 was added later... Casinos founded out that they can make good money if they teach him how to be aggressive. How? Well they added 0 and they added house edge. I will explain this through my post. Lets say like this. Casinos took the roulette to battle for them. Of course he cant win alone, so they took of care to give him very powerfull allies if you are going to fight against him. Casino is not his superior (his boss) but he is boss of the zero and boss of the house edge. They are working for casinos. Roullete is just defending attack to his nature. How? Roulette has very few authorities at all. I would say his creator only, the nature. How are you attacinkg his nature, you will ask? Well the only thing he respects is the law of the third in the nature. This is his only authority. Without not knowing this, you will come to the casino, and play some stupid pure mechanic and mathematical systems that are not respect his authority. At some point he will figure that out, that is going to be considered as attack to him, and he will simply call his battle comrades to fight for him, and to fight for casino of course. This is the point at they are going to kill you. Roullete will hold you, and they are going to beat you, to kill you. How many people are playing roulette every day? Hunderths of milions. His battle comrades have very rich employers. So in this context that means, like "Prodigy" would say: They are always outnumbered, but never outgunned. You will lose every battle with them at some point. Maybe somethimes you can win a battle you never can win a war. You can never conquer them. Is there any way to come to the roullete and to "talk" with him without fight and without mixing his comrades in this? Yes, my friends.How? Come to the roulette, show him that you also respect his authority, law of the third. That you also want to follow him. And then he wont consider you as enemy, opposite in fact. He wont call his comrades to fight with you. He wont hold you. You wont be beaten. You can be friends with them, have dinners with them :) Then they can give you what you want as to a friend, instead they fight for that if you are their enemy. You can all that take in your advantage.
Following law of the third, i think all of this has at least some sense. That is the way i told you my opinion on way like this...
Later i will manifest about 0 in this system, and in some points in the system also. But this is written for all of you. Lets fight all together. You, me, zero, roullete, house edge. Lets turn them all against evil casinos. Just be good, behave well, show respect. Is it posibble?
Quote from: drazen_cro on Apr 27, 06:16 AM 2011
Ok my friends, couple of thoughts now... I have to tell you this, this is completely diferent way of consideration on roulette....I know someone of you will maybe mock me on this, or maybe say that I am weirdie. But before that, try to understand what am I saying. Please.
On al this forums, roulette is considered as enemy. Ok. Most of us has some enemys and we want to destroy them on some kind of way... Nature of roulette is very powerful thing. But roulette in his pure form is realy kind. These regular casinos took that powerful nature, and made it aggressive. How? Well, we all know that roulette in his pure form is without zero. He is made for science, for studying probability by B. Pascal. 0 was added later... Casinos founded out that they can make good money if they teach him how to be aggressive. How? Well they added 0 and they added house edge. I will explain this through my post. Lets say like this. Casinos took the roulette to battle for them. Of course he can't win alone, so they took of care to give him very powerfull allies if you are going to fight against him. Casino is not his superior (his boss) but he is boss of the zero and boss of the house edge. They are working for casinos. roulette is just defending attack to his nature. How? Roulette has very few authorities at all. I would say his creator only, the nature. How are you attacinkg his nature, you will ask? Well the only thing he respects is the law of the third in the nature. This is his only authority. Without not knowing this, you will come to the casino, and play some regular pure mechanic and mathematical systems that are not respect his authority. At some point he will figure that out, that is going to be considered as attack to him, and he will simply call his battle comrades to fight for him, and to fight for casino of course. This is the point at they are going to kill you. roulette will hold you, and they are going to beat you, to kill you. How many people are playing roulette every day? Hunderths of milions. His battle comrades have very rich employers. So in this context that means, like "Prodigy" would say: They are always outnumbered, but never outgunned. You will lose every battle with them at some point. Maybe somethimes you can win a battle you never can win a war. You can never conquer them. Is there any way to come to the roulette and to "talk" with him without fight and without mixing his comrades in this? Yes, my friends.How? Come to the roulette, show him that you also respect his authority, law of the third. That you also want to follow him. And then he wont consider you as enemy, opposite in fact. He wont call his comrades to fight with you. He wont hold you. You wont be beaten. You can be friends with them, have dinners with them :) Then they can give you what you want as to a friend, instead they fight for that if you are their enemy. You can all that take in your advantage.
Following law of the third, I think all of this has at least some sense. That is the way I told you my opinion on way like this...
Later I will manifest about 0 in this system, and in some points in the system also. But this is written for all of you. Lets fight all together. You, me, zero, roulette, house edge. Lets turn them all against evil casinos. Just be good, behave well, show respect. Is it posibble?
Ups sorry about my english again. When i was saying about house edgde in the post above, i meant on the table limits. I hope now you understand.
Quote from: Twisteruk on Apr 27, 04:37 AM 2011
Hi and welcome :)
One question from me, why do you continue to bet the initial sleeper after its hit ?
thanks for sharing your thoughts and ideas :thumbsup:
There are many unexplored ways of doing this. Good question anyway. By my theory we can continue to bet inital sleepers, or maybe even better to recalculate number of sleepers at any hit. And continue with the progression and exeptacion of the hits.
Bump my question again. Please show us a progression you use.
Quote from: kenio on Apr 27, 07:39 AM 2011
Bump my question again. Please show us a progression you use.
Ok of course i will. In this post but few lines later.Allow me something before that, i promised that earlier. And it is important. Reference to the 0 in the system. At the start, i didnt know how to solve 0 problem. When 0 was a sleeper. I always ignore it. But then, roulette showed me. First time in my tests i had strange situation. In the 1st dozen there was only 1 sleeping number (number 2, but not relevant which number). Hm.. quite strange but i thought to myself number 2 has to hit in 37 spins. Right? But i was amazed when i saw that there is no number 2 among next 37 spins. hm.. now what? And when i looked at the 0, i had 2 hits of this number in my next 37 spins. (7th and 18th spin), and when i looked at the table, 0 with 1/3 touches 1st dozen. Right? So if 0 is a sleeper i put it among the numbers in 1st dozen.
Now progression. Ok. I will repeat. For calculation of my progressions i use progression tool from loothog.com but of course it can be any other. i tested this on Unibet casino and i played in 1-1000 chips room.(just an example) There, minimun bet on number is 1 and max 25 units. If you have smaller or bigger limits, you also set that in progression tool. I ll use maximum progression, but you can recalculate to fit 2/3 expected hits if you want. (that is the latest point when first expected sleeper should hit every dozen.) In theory we need max 2/3 max progression.I will also do that but with this i wanted to show that with max progression you can be much more ahead roulette on that issue.
For two sleepers
1) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 34 Bankroll Needed: $2
2) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $4
3) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $6
4) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 28 Bankroll Needed: $8
5) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 26 Bankroll Needed: $10
6) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $12
7) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 22 Bankroll Needed: $14
8) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 20 Bankroll Needed: $16
9) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 18 Bankroll Needed: $18
10) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 16 Bankroll Needed: $20
11) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $22
12) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 12 Bankroll Needed: $24
13) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 10 Bankroll Needed: $26
14) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 8 Bankroll Needed: $28
15) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 6 Bankroll Needed: $30
16) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 4 Bankroll Needed: $32
17) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 2 Bankroll Needed: $34
18) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 34 Bankroll Needed: $38
19) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $42
20) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 26 Bankroll Needed: $46
21) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 22 Bankroll Needed: $50
22) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 18 Bankroll Needed: $54
23) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $58
24) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 10 Bankroll Needed: $62
25) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 6 Bankroll Needed: $66
26) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 2 Bankroll Needed: $70
27) Bet: $ 3 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $76
28) Bet: $ 3 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 26 Bankroll Needed: $82
29) Bet: $ 3 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 20 Bankroll Needed: $88
30) Bet: $ 3 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $94
31) Bet: $ 3 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 8 Bankroll Needed: $100
32) Bet: $ 3 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 2 Bankroll Needed: $106
33) Bet: $ 4 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $114
34) Bet: $ 4 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 22 Bankroll Needed: $122
35) Bet: $ 4 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $130
36) Bet: $ 4 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 6 Bankroll Needed: $138
37) Bet: $ 5 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $148
38) Bet: $ 5 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 22 Bankroll Needed: $158
39) Bet: $ 5 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 12 Bankroll Needed: $168
40) Bet: $ 5 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 2 Bankroll Needed: $178
41) Bet: $ 6 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 26 Bankroll Needed: $190
42) Bet: $ 6 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $202
43) Bet: $ 6 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 2 Bankroll Needed: $214
44) Bet: $ 7 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $228
45) Bet: $ 7 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 10 Bankroll Needed: $242
46) Bet: $ 8 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $258
47) Bet: $ 8 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $274
48) Bet: $ 9 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $292
49) Bet: $ 9 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $310
50) Bet: $ 10 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $330
51) Bet: $ 10 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 10 Bankroll Needed: $350
52) Bet: $ 11 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $372
53) Bet: $ 11 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 2 Bankroll Needed: $394
54) Bet: $ 12 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $418
55) Bet: $ 13 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $444
56) Bet: $ 14 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $472
57) Bet: $ 14 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 4 Bankroll Needed: $500
58) Bet: $ 15 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 10 Bankroll Needed: $530
59) Bet: $ 16 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $562
60) Bet: $ 17 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 16 Bankroll Needed: $596
61) Bet: $ 18 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 16 Bankroll Needed: $632
62) Bet: $ 19 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $670
63) Bet: $ 20 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 10 Bankroll Needed: $710
64) Bet: $ 21 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 4 Bankroll Needed: $752
65) Bet: $ 23 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $798
66) Bet: $ 24 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 18 Bankroll Needed: $846
67) Bet: $ 25 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 4 Bankroll Needed: $896
For 3 sleepers
1) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 33 Bankroll Needed: $3
2) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $6
3) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 27 Bankroll Needed: $9
4) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $12
5) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 21 Bankroll Needed: $15
6) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 18 Bankroll Needed: $18
7) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 15 Bankroll Needed: $21
8) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 12 Bankroll Needed: $24
9) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 9 Bankroll Needed: $27
10) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 6 Bankroll Needed: $30
11) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 3 Bankroll Needed: $33
12) Bet: $ 2 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 33 Bankroll Needed: $39
13) Bet: $ 2 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 27 Bankroll Needed: $45
14) Bet: $ 2 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 21 Bankroll Needed: $51
15) Bet: $ 2 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 15 Bankroll Needed: $57
16) Bet: $ 2 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 9 Bankroll Needed: $63
17) Bet: $ 2 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 3 Bankroll Needed: $69
18) Bet: $ 3 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $78
19) Bet: $ 3 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 21 Bankroll Needed: $87
20) Bet: $ 3 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 12 Bankroll Needed: $96
21) Bet: $ 3 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 3 Bankroll Needed: $105
22) Bet: $ 4 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 27 Bankroll Needed: $117
23) Bet: $ 4 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 15 Bankroll Needed: $129
24) Bet: $ 4 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 3 Bankroll Needed: $141
25) Bet: $ 5 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $156
26) Bet: $ 5 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 9 Bankroll Needed: $171
27) Bet: $ 6 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 27 Bankroll Needed: $189
28) Bet: $ 6 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 9 Bankroll Needed: $207
29) Bet: $ 7 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $228
30) Bet: $ 7 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 3 Bankroll Needed: $249
31) Bet: $ 8 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 15 Bankroll Needed: $273
32) Bet: $ 9 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $300
33) Bet: $ 10 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $330
34) Bet: $ 11 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 33 Bankroll Needed: $363
35) Bet: $ 12 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 33 Bankroll Needed: $399
36) Bet: $ 13 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $438
37) Bet: $ 14 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $480
38) Bet: $ 15 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 15 Bankroll Needed: $525
39) Bet: $ 16 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 3 Bankroll Needed: $573
40) Bet: $ 18 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 21 Bankroll Needed: $627
41) Bet: $ 20 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 33 Bankroll Needed: $687
42) Bet: $ 21 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 6 Bankroll Needed: $750
43) Bet: $ 23 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 9 Bankroll Needed: $819
44) Bet: $ 25 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 6 Bankroll Needed: $894
For 4 sleepers
1) Bet: $ 1 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $4
2) Bet: $ 1 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 28 Bankroll Needed: $8
3) Bet: $ 1 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $12
4) Bet: $ 1 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 20 Bankroll Needed: $16
5) Bet: $ 1 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 16 Bankroll Needed: $20
6) Bet: $ 1 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 12 Bankroll Needed: $24
7) Bet: $ 1 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 8 Bankroll Needed: $28
8) Bet: $ 1 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 4 Bankroll Needed: $32
9) Bet: $ 2 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $40
10) Bet: $ 2 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $48
11) Bet: $ 2 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 16 Bankroll Needed: $56
12) Bet: $ 2 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 8 Bankroll Needed: $64
13) Bet: $ 3 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $76
14) Bet: $ 3 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 20 Bankroll Needed: $88
15) Bet: $ 3 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 8 Bankroll Needed: $100
16) Bet: $ 4 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 28 Bankroll Needed: $116
17) Bet: $ 4 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 12 Bankroll Needed: $132
18) Bet: $ 5 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 28 Bankroll Needed: $152
19) Bet: $ 5 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 8 Bankroll Needed: $172
20) Bet: $ 6 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 20 Bankroll Needed: $196
21) Bet: $ 7 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 28 Bankroll Needed: $224
22) Bet: $ 8 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $256
23) Bet: $ 9 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $292
24) Bet: $ 10 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 28 Bankroll Needed: $332
25) Bet: $ 11 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 20 Bankroll Needed: $376
26) Bet: $ 12 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 8 Bankroll Needed: $424
27) Bet: $ 14 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $480
28) Bet: $ 16 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $544
29) Bet: $ 18 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $616
30) Bet: $ 20 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $696
31) Bet: $ 22 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 8 Bankroll Needed: $784
32) Bet: $ 25 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 16 Bankroll Needed: $884
Etc.. etc.. You got it now?
Quote from: drazen_cro on Apr 27, 08:24 AM 2011
Ok of course I will. In this post but few lines later.Allow me something before that, I promised that earlier. And it is important. Reference to the 0 in the system. At the start, I didn't know how to solve 0 problem. When 0 was a sleeper. I always ignore it. But then, roulette showed me. First time in my tests I had strange situation. In the 1st dozen there was only 1 sleeping number (number 2, but not relevant which number). Hm.. quite strange but I thought to myself number 2 has to hit in 37 spins. Right? But I was amazed when I saw that there is no number 2 among next 37 spins. hm.. now what? And when I looked at the 0, I had 2 hits of this number in my next 37 spins. (7th and 18th spin), and when I looked at the table, 0 with 1/3 touches 1st dozen. Right? So if 0 is a sleeper I put it among the numbers in 1st dozen.
Now progression. Ok. I will repeat. For calculation of my progressions I use progression tool from loothog.com but of course it can be any other. I tested this on Unibet casino and I played in 1-1000 chips room.(just an example) There, minimun bet on number is 1 and max 25 units. If you have smaller or bigger limits, you also set that in progression tool. I ll use maximum progression, but you can recalculate to fit 2/3 expected hits if you want. (that is the latest point when first expected sleeper should hit every dozen.) In theory we need max 2/3 max progression.I will also do that but with this I wanted to show that with max progression you can be much more ahead roulette on that issue.
For two sleepers
1) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 34 Bankroll Needed: $2
2) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $4
3) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $6
4) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 28 Bankroll Needed: $8
5) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 26 Bankroll Needed: $10
6) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $12
7) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 22 Bankroll Needed: $14
8) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 20 Bankroll Needed: $16
9) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 18 Bankroll Needed: $18
10) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 16 Bankroll Needed: $20
11) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $22
12) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 12 Bankroll Needed: $24
13) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 10 Bankroll Needed: $26
14) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 8 Bankroll Needed: $28
15) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 6 Bankroll Needed: $30
16) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 4 Bankroll Needed: $32
17) Bet: $ 1 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 2 Bankroll Needed: $34
18) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 34 Bankroll Needed: $38
19) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $42
20) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 26 Bankroll Needed: $46
21) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 22 Bankroll Needed: $50
22) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 18 Bankroll Needed: $54
23) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $58
24) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 10 Bankroll Needed: $62
25) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 6 Bankroll Needed: $66
26) Bet: $ 2 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 2 Bankroll Needed: $70
27) Bet: $ 3 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $76
28) Bet: $ 3 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 26 Bankroll Needed: $82
29) Bet: $ 3 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 20 Bankroll Needed: $88
30) Bet: $ 3 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $94
31) Bet: $ 3 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 8 Bankroll Needed: $100
32) Bet: $ 3 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 2 Bankroll Needed: $106
33) Bet: $ 4 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $114
34) Bet: $ 4 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 22 Bankroll Needed: $122
35) Bet: $ 4 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $130
36) Bet: $ 4 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 6 Bankroll Needed: $138
37) Bet: $ 5 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $148
38) Bet: $ 5 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 22 Bankroll Needed: $158
39) Bet: $ 5 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 12 Bankroll Needed: $168
40) Bet: $ 5 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 2 Bankroll Needed: $178
41) Bet: $ 6 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 26 Bankroll Needed: $190
42) Bet: $ 6 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $202
43) Bet: $ 6 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 2 Bankroll Needed: $214
44) Bet: $ 7 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $228
45) Bet: $ 7 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 10 Bankroll Needed: $242
46) Bet: $ 8 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $258
47) Bet: $ 8 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $274
48) Bet: $ 9 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $292
49) Bet: $ 9 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $310
50) Bet: $ 10 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $330
51) Bet: $ 10 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 10 Bankroll Needed: $350
52) Bet: $ 11 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $372
53) Bet: $ 11 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 2 Bankroll Needed: $394
54) Bet: $ 12 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $418
55) Bet: $ 13 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $444
56) Bet: $ 14 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $472
57) Bet: $ 14 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 4 Bankroll Needed: $500
58) Bet: $ 15 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 10 Bankroll Needed: $530
59) Bet: $ 16 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $562
60) Bet: $ 17 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 16 Bankroll Needed: $596
61) Bet: $ 18 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 16 Bankroll Needed: $632
62) Bet: $ 19 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 14 Bankroll Needed: $670
63) Bet: $ 20 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 10 Bankroll Needed: $710
64) Bet: $ 21 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 4 Bankroll Needed: $752
65) Bet: $ 23 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $798
66) Bet: $ 24 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 18 Bankroll Needed: $846
67) Bet: $ 25 on 2 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 4 Bankroll Needed: $896
For 3 sleepers
1) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 33 Bankroll Needed: $3
2) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $6
3) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 27 Bankroll Needed: $9
4) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $12
5) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 21 Bankroll Needed: $15
6) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 18 Bankroll Needed: $18
7) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 15 Bankroll Needed: $21
8) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 12 Bankroll Needed: $24
9) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 9 Bankroll Needed: $27
10) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 6 Bankroll Needed: $30
11) Bet: $ 1 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 3 Bankroll Needed: $33
12) Bet: $ 2 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 33 Bankroll Needed: $39
13) Bet: $ 2 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 27 Bankroll Needed: $45
14) Bet: $ 2 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 21 Bankroll Needed: $51
15) Bet: $ 2 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 15 Bankroll Needed: $57
16) Bet: $ 2 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 9 Bankroll Needed: $63
17) Bet: $ 2 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 3 Bankroll Needed: $69
18) Bet: $ 3 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $78
19) Bet: $ 3 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 21 Bankroll Needed: $87
20) Bet: $ 3 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 12 Bankroll Needed: $96
21) Bet: $ 3 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 3 Bankroll Needed: $105
22) Bet: $ 4 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 27 Bankroll Needed: $117
23) Bet: $ 4 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 15 Bankroll Needed: $129
24) Bet: $ 4 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 3 Bankroll Needed: $141
25) Bet: $ 5 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $156
26) Bet: $ 5 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 9 Bankroll Needed: $171
27) Bet: $ 6 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 27 Bankroll Needed: $189
28) Bet: $ 6 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 9 Bankroll Needed: $207
29) Bet: $ 7 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $228
30) Bet: $ 7 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 3 Bankroll Needed: $249
31) Bet: $ 8 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 15 Bankroll Needed: $273
32) Bet: $ 9 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $300
33) Bet: $ 10 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $330
34) Bet: $ 11 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 33 Bankroll Needed: $363
35) Bet: $ 12 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 33 Bankroll Needed: $399
36) Bet: $ 13 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 30 Bankroll Needed: $438
37) Bet: $ 14 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $480
38) Bet: $ 15 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 15 Bankroll Needed: $525
39) Bet: $ 16 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 3 Bankroll Needed: $573
40) Bet: $ 18 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 21 Bankroll Needed: $627
41) Bet: $ 20 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 33 Bankroll Needed: $687
42) Bet: $ 21 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 6 Bankroll Needed: $750
43) Bet: $ 23 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 9 Bankroll Needed: $819
44) Bet: $ 25 on 3 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 6 Bankroll Needed: $894
For 4 sleepers
1) Bet: $ 1 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $4
2) Bet: $ 1 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 28 Bankroll Needed: $8
3) Bet: $ 1 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $12
4) Bet: $ 1 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 20 Bankroll Needed: $16
5) Bet: $ 1 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 16 Bankroll Needed: $20
6) Bet: $ 1 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 12 Bankroll Needed: $24
7) Bet: $ 1 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 8 Bankroll Needed: $28
8) Bet: $ 1 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 4 Bankroll Needed: $32
9) Bet: $ 2 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $40
10) Bet: $ 2 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $48
11) Bet: $ 2 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 16 Bankroll Needed: $56
12) Bet: $ 2 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 8 Bankroll Needed: $64
13) Bet: $ 3 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $76
14) Bet: $ 3 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 20 Bankroll Needed: $88
15) Bet: $ 3 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 8 Bankroll Needed: $100
16) Bet: $ 4 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 28 Bankroll Needed: $116
17) Bet: $ 4 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 12 Bankroll Needed: $132
18) Bet: $ 5 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 28 Bankroll Needed: $152
19) Bet: $ 5 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 8 Bankroll Needed: $172
20) Bet: $ 6 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 20 Bankroll Needed: $196
21) Bet: $ 7 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 28 Bankroll Needed: $224
22) Bet: $ 8 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $256
23) Bet: $ 9 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $292
24) Bet: $ 10 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 28 Bankroll Needed: $332
25) Bet: $ 11 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 20 Bankroll Needed: $376
26) Bet: $ 12 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 8 Bankroll Needed: $424
27) Bet: $ 14 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $480
28) Bet: $ 16 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $544
29) Bet: $ 18 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 32 Bankroll Needed: $616
30) Bet: $ 20 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 24 Bankroll Needed: $696
31) Bet: $ 22 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 8 Bankroll Needed: $784
32) Bet: $ 25 on 4 spots. Profit on a Win: $ 16 Bankroll Needed: $884
Etc.. etc.. You got it now?
these smiles shouldn tbe here of course haha
Thx a lot drazen. Now we can start testing :)
Drazen,
Thanks again. Great system to think about and test. Well thought out. Still a little complicated and some of us aren't too clear on every piece of the puzzle. Systems like this take time to read and re-read until all the pieces start falling into place.
Be patient with us and gradually more and more will jump on board as different members add their two cents worth to it.
I know it takes a lot of time to type out all the details and we thank you for your patience in do that.
Cheers mate,
George
Quote from: GLC on Apr 27, 09:29 AM 2011
Drazen,
Thanks again. Great system to think about and test. Well thought out. Still a little complicated and some of us aren't too clear on every piece of the puzzle. Systems like this take time to read and re-read until all the pieces start falling into place.
Be patient with us and gradually more and more will jump on board as different members add their two cents worth to it.
I know it takes a lot of time to type out all the details and we thank you for your patience in do that.
Cheers mate,
George
Thans mate. I will have patience for all of you. At this time in my life, i have more obligations than earlier. i have to study for my exams, to go to college... And that means that i cant spend couple of hours a day just on this... (although i would like to). But that is why i told you all my idea, and asked for help.
Regards
Drazen
Ok guys some of you told me that they dont understand how i got latest expected spin and how to adjust progression...
I will try to explain again, there is no problems.
For 3 sleepers we expect 1 hit in 2/3 of 37 spins max so that means 2/3*37=24.6/1=24 spin latest
When we expect 2 hits 2/3*37=24.6 /2 expected hits=12.3 spin latest
when we expect 3 hits 2/3*37=24.6 /3 expected hits 8.2 spin lates
etc etc
so by that you can adjust your progression. And with only one hit you will be very very satisied. :)
any suggestion or correction is welcome if i did something wrong here. i mean mathematicaly and statisticaly.
After my first test I saw that it can become hard to get all our "targets".
For example if we have 6 unhit in first dozen, law of the third tells us that we should expect 4 of them to hit in next 37 spins. But, hereafter I will only go for 2 or 3 wins because I always get 2 wins. 4 wins can be harder and can kill your bankroll. So statistically I mean that I will go for 1/2 instead of 2/3 of the unhit numbers.
Drazen, which bankroll do you recommend?
I find it pretty hard to track all the progressions at the same time when playing..
My first sessions have showed nice profit :)
Quote from: Fripper on Apr 27, 01:35 PM 2011
After my first test I saw that it can become hard to get all our "targets".
For example if we have 6 unhit in first dozen, law of the third tells us that we should expect 4 of them to hit in next 37 spins. But, hereafter I will only go for 2 or 3 wins because I always get 2 wins. 4 wins can be harder and can kill your bankroll. So statistically I mean that I will go for 1/2 instead of 2/3 of the unhit numbers.
Drazen, which bankroll do you recommend?
I find it pretty hard to track all the progressions at the same time when playing..
My first sessions have showed nice profit :)
Yes. My regards to you. Thank you for testing. In my later test i also discovered something similar to this. But can you tell why sometimes this does not follow theory completely? Was that on RNG-s?
Main thing here is to find extrems of this system. If there are some deviations we want to know when and why they occur. This system has big potencial, so dont be lasy to track numbers. Help me. Tests, tests and more tests... That is the only way we can find constant in the system. We want how much theory follows that in practice...
Quote from: drazen_cro on Apr 27, 01:40 PM 2011
Yes. My regards to you. Thank you for testing. In my later test I also discovered something similar to this. But can you tell why sometimes this does not follow theory completely? Was that on RNG-s?
What do you mean follow theory?
Well according to the law of the third we should have 2/3 hit numbers but that's not always the case, sometimes it will hit more and sometimes less. That's why I feel it's safer to play with around 1/2 hits.
Yes I test in RX. (Roulette Xtreme)
Quote from: Fripper on Apr 27, 02:06 PM 2011
What do you mean follow theory?
Well according to the law of the third we should have 2/3 hit numbers but that's not always the case, sometimes it will hit more and sometimes less. That's why I feel it's safer to play with around 1/2 hits.
Yes I test in RX. (Roulette Xtreme)
Yes. but because in randomnes this is the only known law that acts? Right? So i wonder why and when these extrems happens.
Well, I don't know if it is the only law that acts..
If we could know when the xtremes would happen then we would be on a very good way in beating the game :thumbsup:
Quote from: Fripper on Apr 27, 02:14 PM 2011
Well, I don't know if it is the only law that acts..
If we could know when the xtremes would happen then we would be on a very good way in beating the game :thumbsup:
Yes. That is right. Eventhough that disproportionals happens, they are not big and they are quite rare. Does anyone have idea how to explain this?
Played 10 games on PartyCasino RNG.
System works well, gives an average profit of 134 units per game.
Inconsitancies are:
1 time was just 1 sleeper left in 3rd dozen
1 time it took 27 spins until one of the 2 sleepers left in dozen 2 was hit
several times it took more than 24 spins until all dozens fulfilled the 2/3 hits of the sleepers. maximum was 42 spins.
but still a money winner with enough reserve in bankroll and progression.
cheers and thanks again for your efforts Drazen.
Very thankful for testing. Interesting. Minor fluctuations expected. But still everything was covered by progression.
I would like to show my session and give some explanation for it. Maybe it will be helpful, for those who have some problems to understand it.
My session was based on the rules proposed by drazen.
Table limit $1-$25. When 2/3 sleepers in each dozen will be hit, I close my session or when I lose in the last step of progression.
I treat 0 as a number from the 1st dozen.
Spins are taken from Wiesbaden casino.
So lets start the show...
After 37 spins I came up with my sleepers.
1st Dozen: 0,2,7,9,10
2nd Dozen: 14,22,23
3rd Dozen: 34,35,36
Based on the law of the third we expect 3 numbers will be hit from 1st dozen and 2 numbers from 2nd and 3rd one.
The progression we use for each dozen,
1st Dozen- 25 step progression
2nd Dozen- 44 step progression
3rd Dozen- 44 step progression
We start 3 progressions for all three dozens
Spin No.
38. 9 +
---------------
hit sleeper in the 1st dozen +31. we are waiting for 2 more numbers to be hit (0,2,7,10)
We reset the progression on this dozen. Progression on 2nd and 3rd are still going.
39. 6
40. 30
41. 19
42. 31
43. 15
44. 32
45. 16
46. 27
47. 26
48. 8
49. 23 +
---------------
hit sleeper in 2nd dozen +33. waiting for one more number in this dozen (14,22)
we reset our progression on this dozen.
50. 21
51. 23 +
---------------
the same number from 2nd dozen is hit again. +30. still waiting for one of these numbers (14,22)
progression on this dozen is reset.
49. 36 +
---------------
third dozen is hit +15. it took 15 steps progression to complete it. waiting for one more number (34,35)
progression on dozen 3 is reset.
50. 19
51. 15
52. 34 +
---------------
our last expected number in 3rd dozen has been hit. +27. We no longer bet on 3rd dozen.
continue progression on dozen 1 and 2
53. 18
54. 32
55. 12
56. 34
57. 32
58. 36
59. 28
60. 20 -
--------------
we exceeded 25-the step of progression on 1st dozen. we are down -780. end of the session.
61. 16
62. 0
-------------
finally the number from the 1st dozen has been hit. But it happend on to late and table limits
wouldn't allow us to come in profit.
I still put the rest of numbers to show when one of the 2nd dozen numbers showed up.
51. 3
52. 26
53. 18
54. 0
55. 30
56. 9
------------
another 1st dozen numbers appeared. but at this point it didn't matter since we lost progression on this dozen.
57. 9
58. 7
59. 14
-----------
the last expected number from 2nd dozen appeared. It happend on 23rd step of progression for 2nd dozen,
To resume. Profit from each dozen
1st Dozen -749
2nd Dozen +63
3rd Dozen +42
Total Profit/Loss -644
2 more steps in progression for 1st dozen and we would have a pretty nice session.
Now what will happen if we remove the bet, every time when our sleeper is hit.
Looking at this session we see that our 1st dozen was hit right away in 38-the spin.
That means that starting from spin 39, we bet only 4 numbers (not 5-like original version)in 1st dozen.
How does it help us? Betting only 4 numbers at this point we can use 32 step progression and not 25
like it was with 5 numbers.
Using this our profit will looke like this.
1st Dozen +73
2nd Dozen +39
3rd Dozen +45
Total Profit/Loss +157
Removing bet from the number which has been hit, give us a chance to play the rest with longer progression.
I have another idea, which I will share with you guys tomorrow. :)
Appologize for the long post.
Kenio,
Nice clear presentation. It always helps to have a second member present the system in a little different way. Helps clarify parts that we didn't quite understand.
Drazen or Kenio,
I have also been wondering why we don't set a certain profit target such as +75 and when we reach that target, we re-track. Or a super safe method might be to end session after any plus.
We could be using the numbers that are spinning while we are betting for the next round of bets.
Or, maybe we could count back 37 spins from the spin we reached our win target on to cut down on a lot of tracking time.
Any thoughts on these ideas?
George
george,
you can do this of course when your table limits or bankroll does not allow the full game to finish. this way you are safer from running out of progression steps.
Kenio and Rolletti. Well done job, guys. You understood all and i hope you helped the others who doesnt, to understand. Kenio, this is very good example of testing with extremes for which honestly I prayed to be. :) because i am focused on researching of extrems in system. When i was inventing this system, i wanted to understand his every part and his flow also. I came pretty far on that issue. But in every system, extrems happens. I think it is possible mathematicaly explain why and when they could happen, but as they dont happen often, i dont have enough of them to confirm my conclusions. So i would be grateful if you could in yours test, when extrem happens, tell me me when it happens, and for how many steps he overstepped progression until expected hit. That means that sometimes you will have to go to the 3rd 37 spin cycle to find them.
Again congrats to Kenio for his idea how to solve extrems at least until it is not possible to explain them. i came on that also, and for now that is the best mechanical solution for this extrem in system. As he said, removing bet from the number which has been hit, give us a chance to play the rest with longer progression. He explained how that would solve extreme in his test. I have some other ideas also but i have to confirm them first.
Regards
Drazen
guys, i fully take your point about removing hit numbers from the progession, but having repeating numbers in a 37 spin cycle is what this system is all about.
ie law of the third.
what i'm saying is that if you need 13, 14, 18, 19 and 22 from the second dozen and 18 hits, 18 has just as much chance of hitting next as the other numbers.
this system has come about because numbers do repeat.
Quote from: ewarwoowar on Apr 28, 04:12 AM 2011
Guys, I fully take your point about removing hit numbers from the progession, but having repeating numbers in a 37 spin cycle is what this system is all about.
ie law of the third.
what i'm saying is that if you need 13, 14, 18, 19 and 22 from the second dozen and 18 hits, 18 has just as much chance of hitting next as the other numbers.
this system has come about because numbers do repeat.
I dont agree with you. And i think that you are saying about something diferent than this. I ll take your example. Ok, 2nd dozen, 5 sleepers as you said are 13, 14, 18, 19, 22 and that means that we are expecting 2/3 of hits and taht is 3 hits in this dozen in next 37 spins. Right? And how did you come to number of 18 hits? Because if we had lets say 18 sleepers(and that is very very rare, but anyway) we expect 2/3 of them to show in next 37 spins. Right? And that is 12 hits all together in 3 dozens. So on whole system our total average expectation is 7-10 hits in all 3 dozens total. You got it?
Quote from: drazen_cro on Apr 28, 04:40 AM 2011
I don't agree with you. And I think that you are saying about something diferent than this. I ll take your example. Ok, 2nd dozen, 5 sleepers as you said are 13, 14, 18, 19, 22 and that means that we are expecting 2/3 of hits and taht is 3 hits in this dozen in next 37 spins. Right? And how did you come to number of 18 hits? Because if we had lets say 18 sleepers(and that is very very rare, but anyway) we expect 2/3 of them to show in next 37 spins. Right? And that is 12 hits all together in 3 dozens. So on whole system our total average expectation is 7-10 hits in all 3 dozens total. You got it?
Hi, its a simple misunderstanding
He means the number 18 hittin, not 18 hits :thumbsup:
Quote from: drazen_cro on Apr 28, 04:40 AM 2011
I don't agree with you. And I think that you are saying about something diferent than this. I ll take your example. Ok, 2nd dozen, 5 sleepers as you said are 13, 14, 18, 19, 22 and that means that we are expecting 2/3 of hits and taht is 3 hits in this dozen in next 37 spins. Right? And how did you come to number of 18 hits? Because if we had lets say 18 sleepers(and that is very very rare, but anyway) we expect 2/3 of them to show in next 37 spins. Right? And that is 12 hits all together in 3 dozens. So on whole system our total average expectation is 7-10 hits in all 3 dozens total. You got it?
Yes you got it twist. :) misunderstanding. I apologize. Yes, in that case you have right at some point. Of course we know that some of these sleepers will may be repeated in these 37 spin cycle, but to satisfy law of the third 2/3 of them must show, right? So 3 diferent numbers out of 5. That is why sometimes we have 2-3 more hits than we expected in dozen. Some of the numbers repeated.
hi guys,
in a german forum our member winkel wrote that for cycles of 36 spins the law of 1/3 (or the law of 2/3) actually only holds up in about 16% of all the cycles. I haven't tested it myself, still I trust winkel's statement.
but if so, wouldn't this mean that in 84% each roulette system that relies on these laws relies on false assumptions right from the begining? :o
please, don't get me wrong. I don't want to be a party pooper. this is just my 2cent question.
cheers
hans
p.s. maybe it would be a nice idea to try to find a system that plays against these laws? ???
Quote from: hanshuckebein on Apr 28, 05:05 AM 2011
Hi guys,
in a german forum our member winkel wrote that for cycles of 36 spins the law of 1/3 (or the law of 2/3) actually only holds up in about 16% of all the cycles. I haven't tested it myself, still I trust winkel's statement.
but if so, wouldn't this mean that in 84% each roulette system that relies on these laws relies on false assumptions right from the begining? :o
please, don't get me wrong. I don't want to be a party pooper. this is just my 2cent question.
cheers
hans
p.s. maybe it would be a nice idea to try to find a system that plays against these laws? ???
Interesting one. I dont know, i think the time will show. When i do enough tests i will be able to say something more about that. but maybe there is someone who can reffer to this?
I had some loosing games today. so for my RNG game its necessary to implement some stop loss and starting criteria.
I will just play if there are at least 13 sleeper better 14+ sleeper.
I only play a dozen if there are 3+ sleeper in it otherwise they tend to challenge the progression to much.
I will stop the game if my 2/3 are not satisfied within 28 spins.
Quote from: GLC on Apr 28, 12:15 AM 2011
Kenio,
Nice clear presentation. It always helps to have a second member present the system in a little different way. Helps clarify parts that we didn't quite understand.
Drazen or Kenio,
I have also been wondering why we don't set a certain profit target such as +75 and when we reach that target, we re-track. Or a super safe method might be to end session after any plus.
We could be using the numbers that are spinning while we are betting for the next round of bets.
Or, maybe we could count back 37 spins from the spin we reached our win target on to cut down on a lot of tracking time.
Any thoughts on these ideas?
George
Hi Drazen
Thank you for a clever strategy in the law of the thirds, I will also join in with the testing of this method and feed back to all how I get on
I have to agree with George that why not stop at a reasonable target, and then retrack so we don't get sucked into the extremes of roulette as greed is often our enemy.
Once again thanks for this method, I'm looking forward to testing,
Gordon ;D
Quote from: Gordonline on Apr 28, 06:04 AM 2011
Hi Drazen
Thank you for a clever strategy in the law of the thirds, I will also join in with the testing of this method and feed back to all how I get on
I have to agree with George that why not stop at a reasonable target, and then retrack so we don't get sucked into the extremes of roulette as greed is often our enemy.
Once again thanks for this method, I'm looking forward to testing,
Gordon ;D
Thank you Gordon. As i said, there are so many possibilities in this system. As a newbie still, i dont know how all this should react in practice. I dont have experience in playing roulette. But i did my best to set up this is theory. I hoped you will tell me what i can do better in system and how can be improved. What are mistakes in system also. So together i think we can do something considering this theory.
Regards
Drazen
Quote from: Rolletti on Apr 28, 05:55 AM 2011
I had some losing games today. so for my RNG game its necessary to implement some stop-loss and starting criteria.
I will just play if there are at least 13 sleeper better 14+ sleeper.
I only play a dozen if there are 3+ sleeper in it otherwise they tend to challenge the progression to much.
I will stop the game if my 2/3 are not satisfied within 28 spins.
Hm.. one question has to be asked. Did you play with original progressions all the time, or did you whenever you had a hit, removed that number and recalculated progression?
Please next time mark these extrems a write it here, so we could examen the.
It's hard to have a strickt target profit. Lets say we have our TP at 75units.
In my session we would either stop at spin 49 with the profit of 64units or at spin 51 with 94 units.
Don't forget that we have two other progression still going.
So at spin 49 other progression would give us a loss -119 units and -166 units at spin 51.
My 2 kunas,
That it should be tested with real roulette numbers,
as RNG isn't that.
Quote from: kenio on Apr 28, 06:22 AM 2011
It's hard to have a strickt target profit. Lets say we have our TP at 75units.
In my session we would either stop at spin 49 with the profit of 64units or at spin 51 with 94 units.
Don't forget that we have two other progression still going.
So at spin 49 other progression would give us a loss -119 units and -166 units at spin 51.
Exactly Ken. There are so many questions that can be explored in this system, that i dont know which i should start first. :D
Regards
Drazen
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Apr 28, 06:30 AM 2011
My 2 kunas,
That it should be tested with real roulette numbers,
as RNG isn't that.
That thought is in my head all the time :ooh: Hm...
If we want to play the safe way, we should rather consider reducing our sleepers from 2/3 to 1/5 or even 1/3
Quote from: kenio on Apr 28, 06:54 AM 2011
If we want to play the safe way, we should rather consider reducing our sleepers from 2/3 to 1/5 or even 1/3
But how when, we dont know which among them will have a hit? Some of them will have a repeat of course. So that means that if we take example 5 sleepers from 1 dozen, and observe them as a indivualy set of numbers again. They should also act by the law of the third. How to implement this in system?
Quote from: kenio on Apr 28, 06:54 AM 2011
If we want to play the safe way, we should rather consider reducing our sleepers from 2/3 to 1/5 or even 1/3
Or did you mean on 1/5 or 1/3 of hits?
As I said in one of my posts, I don't chase 2/3 hits on the unhit numbers, I play around 1/2 hits on them.
Here's my chart:
Unhit numbers: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
I bet on: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4 numbers
Example: If I have 5 unhit numbers, I look for 2 hits then take those numbers away.
If I have 6 unhit numbers I bet them until I have 3 hits then don't bet anymore.
I don't take away numbers after a hit.
Here is my first results:
* = highest progression
Session 1 : +202, 68 spins. (-164) *5
Session 2 : +145, 53 spins. (0) *1
Session 3 : +143, 64 spins (-55) *3
Session 4 : +138, 56 spins (-34) *4
Session 5 : +91, 60 spins (-53) *4
Session 6 : +109, 52 spins (-15) *2
Session 7 : +82, 53 spins (-68) *4
Session 8 : +86, 71 spins (-169) *6
Session 9 : +91, 71 spins (-229) *10
Session 10 : +145, 70 spins (-207) *10
:thumbsup:
If we have 6 sleepers in a dozen, we bet on those sleeper until 4 of them will be hit using 2/3 method.
Reducing it to 1/2 we bet until 3 numbers will be hit. With 1/3 only two numbers.
Or we can play the safiest possible way, and when one sleeper from this dozen appears, we stop betting on this dozen. Hope that makes sense.
I think George had that in mind
Quote from: Fripper on Apr 28, 07:23 AM 2011
As I said in one of my posts, I don't chase 2/3 hits on the unhit numbers, I play around 1/2 hits on them.
Here's my chart:
Unhit numbers: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
I bet on: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4 numbers
Example: If I have 5 unhit numbers, I look for 2 hits then take those numbers away.
If I have 6 unhit numbers I bet them until I have 3 hits then don't bet anymore.
I don't take away numbers after a hit.
Here is my first results:
* = highest progression
Session 1 : +202, 68 spins. (-164) *5
Session 2 : +145, 53 spins. (0) *1
Session 3 : +143, 64 spins (-55) *3
Session 4 : +138, 56 spins (-34) *4
Session 5 : +91, 60 spins (-53) *4
Session 6 : +109, 52 spins (-15) *2
Session 7 : +82, 53 spins (-68) *4
Session 8 : +86, 71 spins (-169) *6
Session 9 : +91, 71 spins (-229) *10
Session 10 : +145, 70 spins (-207) *10
:thumbsup:
You have to admit, results like are very glad to see. I regard you guidelines. Now is the thing if we can found constant on base like this.
Regards
Drazen
Quote from: kenio on Apr 28, 07:27 AM 2011
If we have 6 sleepers in a dozen, we bet on those sleeper until 4 of them will be hit using 2/3 method.
Reducing it to 1/2 we bet until 3 numbers will be hit. With 1/3 only two numbers.
Or we can play the safiest possible way, and when one sleeper from this dozen appears, we stop betting on this dozen. Hope that makes sense.
I think George had that in mind
Yes i think i understand now. Thank you. Also very interesting. Good way in finding some constant i hope. ;)
Hi All
Just started doing some testing as you know, and thinking out loud here, to keep our win to loss ratio as high as we can and the fact that Drazen has split this into dozens, how about after we have our 37 numbers tracked to give us our sleepers, we start our betting and when we have our 1st win in any one of the dozens we stop that progression, wait for our 2nd win which will appear in the remaining 2 dozens and stop, we are then left with the remaining dozen and since we are only after one of our numbers to hit the odds should be in our favour
I think its a good idea to only bet on the sleepers if there's a minimun of 4 in any dozen, and any dozen that has less just leave that one alone (Just a thought)
Example below from my first test (64 spins of live wheel) all progressions reset after each hit
Sleepers after 37 spins
1st Dozen 1,2,3,4,7,10 = 6
2nd Dozen 15,16,20,22,23 = 5
3rd Dozen 26,30,31,32,34 = 5
Spin 1, 10 +30
Spin 7, 1 +12
Spin 18, 7 +18
Numbers 2,3,4 no show 27 spins after the initial 37
Spin 4, 10 +16
Spin 2, 1 +26
Spin 3, 7 +21
Spin 2, 22 +26
Spin 2, 20 +26
Spin 3, 21 +21
Spin 1, 16 +31
All Numbers appeared
Spin 7, 32 +32
Spin 17, 34 +22
Numbers 26,30,31 no show after 27 spins after the initial 37
Playing Drazen's method we would still be hunting for the 3rd hit on 3rd dozen but would be +172 units and on 3rd step of progression after resetting from spin 17 (34) hope it makes sense
As you can see in this test if we took the first win from each dozen we could of stopped at spin 7 with a profit of 78 units, also it would help us to concentrate more as following 3 seperate progressions during live play will be very hard between spins
All comments greatfully received
Will keep posting with further results
Gordon ;D
Hi All
Apologies I made a mistake in 2nd dozen numbers, should been....
Spin 4, 23 +16
Spin 2, 20 +26
Spin 3, 15 +21
Spin 2, 22 +26
Spin 2, 20 +26
Spin 3, 21 +21
Spin 1, 16 +31
Gordon
Some of my test with modifications as you suggested. I use about 1/2 of the sleepers and max progression. I will write in which spin i had hit at that number. So with 1/2 that would be for 2 and 3 sleepers (1) hit, for 4 and 5 sleepers (2) hits, for 6 and 7 sleepers (3) hits and for 8-9 sleepers (4) hits
Lets see:
__Session 1__
1st dozen sleepers (6 of them max progression possible 21 step)
0
1--- hit at 13. spin +6 units
2
3--- hit at 3. spin +18 units
4
8---at 33. spin +30 (dozen session stoped)
-------------------------------------- Total profit for this dozen +54 units
2nd dozen sleepers (7 of them, max progression possible 18 steps)
17
18
20---at 14. spin +11 units (dozen session stoped)
21--- at 2. spin +22 units
22--- at 4. spin +22 units
---------------------------------------Total profit for this dozen +55 units
3rd dozen sleepers (6 of them, max progression 21 step)
25
28
29---at 12. spin +18 units
31---at 18. spin +6 units (dozen session stoped)
33
34---at 9. spin +30 units
---------------------------------------Total profit for this dozen +54 units
TOTAL SESSION PROFIT +163 UNITS
__Session 2__
1st dozen sleepers (3 of them max progression 44 step)
0
5
7--at 14. spin +21 (dozen session stoped)
--------------------------------------------------------------
2nd dozen sleepers (5 of them, max progression 25 step)
16
17
19---at 18.spin +23
21
22--at 23.spin +11 (dozen session stoped)
------------------------------------------------------------------
3rd dozen sleepers (5 of them max progression 25 step)
26--at 26.spin +30 (dozen session stoped)
29--at 20. spin +18
30
32---at 9.spin +24
36
------------------------------------Total Session profit 21+34+72=127 units
__Session 3__
1st dozen sleepers ( 6 of them, max progression 21 step)
0
5
7---at 21. spin +6 units (dozen session stoped)
8---at 13. spin +24 units
9---at 16. spin +18 units
12
---------------------------------------------------------
2nd dozen sleepers (4 of them, max progression 32 steps)
13 --at 5. spin +20 (dozen session stopped)
17
20 ---at 1. spin +32
24
-----------------------------------------------------------
3rd dozen sleepers (3 of them, max progression 44 steps)
27- at 8. spin +12 (dozen session stopped)
32
35
-------------------------------------------------------------Total session profit +112 units
Hate to tell you guys but "the law of thirds" is not a law like it's something you can count on happening in the short term, it is an average based on LARGE numbers. I have not followed this system exactly so don't want to speak out of turn, but I assume everyone here knows that roulette decisions will be completely random during your brief time at the table, some numbers may repeat quickly and often and others may not show for hundreds of spins, and there is no rationale to basing a bet upon what has recently occured. but we all know that, right?
I am seeing results but I am not seeing what the draw-down is when you achieve these results as in the previous post. It would be helpful if someone could show exactly what your running loss/profit total is spin by spin till the end of the sequence so one could understand what one is risking and what the bankroll required would be.
Based on table limits min1 - max25, you need 800-900 bankroll on each progression.
So we need around 2500 to play it safe.
We can stop, when one of the progressions failed which will be <800 units.
As you see in examples above, we need 5-6 wining sessoons to be BE.
Gordonline, I agree with you, that it may be a challenge to track all 3 progressions at the same time.
Especially in live casino. We would need some kind of spreadsheet, to help us with it.
Betting only until one sleeper from each dozen appears, can be tricky, but it's managable.
Don't forget that some progressiona are running thru 25-50 steps.
I think we should first find out, if this method works in the long run. Then we can start thinking, how to handle the progression.
But hey, who said that beating roulette would be easy.
do not you get it if something on roulete is easy to odserve and able to be explained by math or some virtual law never gonna work..another question is when system using progression failes does system fail or progression was not aplyed properly..you can try onother way of betting is not bad try it if you want...numbers coming are:
32 so you get numbers in pair(32,16)(28,22) and so on as they comming and substract
16 16-28=-12 so first number to bet is 12 negative sign does not matter you keep doing
28 it as numbers are coming and placing bets on apropriete numbers and also watch how
22 much chip value you gonna need to come in profit,usual hit is 10-12 spin or 18 -22 spin
30 sometimes you get repeater number but this is normal...also when number of yours
26 hit leave chip on it as very often they do repeat.. :thumbsup:
6
21
6
11
24
1
21
21
23
22
5
34
22
28
34
22
31
29
4
36
18
10
12
14
26
5
13
Quote from: maestro on Apr 28, 11:14 AM 2011
Do not you get it if something on roulette is easy to odserve and able to be explained by math or some virtual law never gonna work..another question is when system using progression failes does system fail or progression was not aplyed properly..you can try onother way of betting is not bad try it if you want...numbers coming are:
32 so you get numbers in pair(32,16)(28,22) and so on as they comming and substract
16 16-28=-12 so first number to bet is 12 negative sign does not matter you keep doing
28 it as numbers are coming and placing bets on apropriete numbers and also watch how
22 much chip value you gonna need to come in profit,usual hit is 10-12 spin or 18 -22 spin
30 sometimes you get repeater number but this is normal...also when number of yours
26 hit leave chip on it as very often they do repeat.. :thumbsup:
6
21
6
11
24
1
21
21
23
22
5
34
22
28
34
22
31
29
4
36
18
10
12
14
26
5
13
Ok. Every has right to his opinion. I respect. But with latest modifications as you see this system wasnt even close to fail. The time will show.
Quote from: drazen_cro on Apr 28, 11:31 AM 2011
Ok. Every has right to his opinion. I respect. But with latest modifications as you see this system wasn't even close to fail. The time will show.
:thumbsup:good luck
During testing after the initial 37 spins the 1st dozen sleepers were 1,5,7,8,12, however number 8 appeared on spin 2 but the 2nd number took 26 spins to appear, (1 spin too many) and on a "5 Sleeper progression" it kills the BR of 800 units...ouch !!! :(
Incidentally the only 1st dozen number that appeared was 10 three times in 25 spins (sometimes you have to laugh at roulette)
The 2nd dozen and 3rd dozen produced the sleepers but as Red Nickels mentioned the running balance would never recover the 1st dozen loss of 800 units
I still think if you're gonna run with all 3 dozens, you take the profit on the first hit within each dozen, remember that whatever we do as Kenio rightly said, this does require a hefty bank roll
Gordon :)
What about Testing with just 2 Dozens ?
The 2 Dozens with the most numbers (sleepers)
Yep, may not work but may be worth a look :thumbsup:
Quote from: Gordonline on Apr 28, 11:53 AM 2011
During testing after the initial 37 spins the 1st dozen sleepers were 1,5,7,8,12, however number 8 appeared on spin 2 but the 2nd number took 26 spins to appear, (1 spin too many) and on a "5 Sleeper progression" it kills the BR of 800 units...ouch !!! :(
Incidentally the only 1st dozen number that appeared was 10 three times in 25 spins (sometimes you have to laugh at roulette)
The 2nd dozen and 3rd dozen produced the sleepers but as Red Nickels mentioned the running balance would never recover the 1st dozen loss of 800 units
I still think if you're gonna run with all 3 dozens, you take the profit on the first hit within each dozen, remember that whatever we do as Kenio rightly said, this does require a hefty bankroll
Gordon :)
Maybe one little trick to do. When you have a hit in dozen. You should cross of that number, and recalculate progression with the rest of the numbers? That would work than, right? :)
Gordon. After the number 8 has been hit, you cross it off. So now you have only 4 sleepers in dozen 1.
You need to reset and recalculate progression.
Betting on 5 numbers we could only afford for 25 step progression. With 4 numbers it increases to 32 steps. It's additional 7 steps, which in your example, could save you.
Don't forget that this progression is based on table limit: 1:25. If you find more favorable limits, it automatically gives us a chance to play longer progresion. Be aware that in that case, a much biger bankroll is required.
Hi Kenio
Yep that has to be the way forward, leave the spun number off the progression reset and get the extra spins îÃ,Âââ,¬â€
How's everyone else getting on ? Might try this on BV NZ as you can bet as low as 1 cent and would be interesting to see how there RNG copes with the strategy îÃ,Âââ,¬â€
Gordon
Hitting only one sleeper from each dozen can give us profit around 50-70 units.
That's the safest way to play.
Ok guys. Some of my newest test. But this time with real spins from live dealer. I found them I actual spin section in this forum. Again, I played with 1/2 hits, and whenever I had a hit I crossed that number off and recalculate max progression with rest of the numbers. AS you can see this is not the safest possible method, for this system, but it is importan to say that even this one wasn't failed at any time by now. In any of tests, live or RNG. This time I will write spin in which I had hit and point in down in progression for that dozen by that hit. Bankroll used about 2700 units ( about 900 max per progression)
Lets see
---Session one----
1st dozen sleepers
2 -- at 11.spin +27 (-9 down) dozen session stpped
6 -- at 8. spin +4 (-32 down)
10
12
------------
2nd dozen sleepers
14 ---at 6. spin +12 (-24 down)
18
20 --- at 23. spin +30 (-78 down) dozen session stopped
21
-----------------
3rd dozen sleepers
29
33
35---at 3. spin +21 (-15) dozen session stopped
------------------------------
Total session profit 31+42+21=94 units
-----2nd session------
1st dozen sleepers
1
3
7 ---at 12. spin +11 (-25) dozens session stopped
8 ---at 3. spin +24 (-84)
9 ---at 7.spin +12 (-24)
10
12
----------------------------------
2nd dozen sleepers
13
15 --- at 5. spin +21 (-15) dozen session stopped
21
-------------------------------------
3rd dozen sleepers
28 --- at 27. spin +9 (-63) dozen session stopped
30
33
36 ---at 11. spin +16 (-56)
---------------------TOTAL SESSION PROFIT 47+21+25=93 units
---3rd session----
1st dozen sleepers
3
4 ---at 13. spin +29 (-115)
6 --- at 21. spin +4 (-32) dozens session stopped
8
12
------------------------------------
2 nd dozen sleepers
20
23 --- at 12. spin +12 (-24) dozen session stopped
-------------------
3 rd dozens sleepers
25
26 --- at 1. spin +29 (-7)
27 --- at 5. spin +16 (-20)
31--- at 10. spin +11 (-25) dozen session stopped)
32
33
35
-----------------------------Total session profit 33+12+56=101 units
One important thing to say. This way of playing is very hard to track... You have to be fully concentrated because now we could have 3 diferent progressions and these are changing 2-3 times more in our next 37 . Extremly concentration needed.
@ drazen_cro or anyone who can explain it simply.
If you can create a step by step guide o0f the rules I may bot this method over the weekend, I noticed Kenio said
QuoteMight try this on BV NZ as you can bet as low as 1 cent and would be interesting to see how there RNG copes with the strategy
How will you gather the first 36/7 spins? can't bet red & black at the same time now or have they changed it again?
Quote from: superman on Apr 29, 07:40 AM 2011
How will you gather the first 36/7 spins? can't bet red & black at the same time now or have they changed it again?
3 units on 1-18
1 unit on 19-24, 25-30 and 31-36
OR
3 units on 1-18
2 unit on doz3
1 unit on 19-24
Should work?` :thumbsup:
Quote from: superman on Apr 29, 07:40 AM 2011
@ drazen_cro or anyone who can explain it simply.
If you can create a step by step guide o0f the rules I may bot this method over the weekend, I noticed Kenio said
How will you gather the first 36/7 spins? can't bet red & black at the same time now or have they changed it again?
First 37 spins you have to write down if they dont have enough long number history. i realy dont know how could i explain more than i did in all my posts. Sorry. If someone can i would apreciate. I would bet with this method long ago, but i am just a poor student i have to collect some money for that first. For me even if i would bet with 10 cents minimun bets for that i would need 270 euros. And even that is for me my friend very very respectful amount of money.
Regards
Drazen
Quote from: Fripper on Apr 29, 07:46 AM 2011
3 units on 1-18
1 unit on 19-24, 25-30 and 31-36
OR
3 units on 1-18
2 unit on doz3
1 unit on 19-24
Should work?` :thumbsup:
i think my friend. the key is how to adept progression to that. Do some calculations and you will see. :) I came up to something similar also, because I don't have enough money to start, as I would like. I said that many variations can be applied on this method. Good thinking anyway. :)
Hi drazen
Those bets are only for us to spin at betvoyager. In there we can't spin the wheel how many times in a row as we want and we can't just bet red and black at the same time.
I just answered superman and that had noting to do with your system. It's only to spin 37 times before starting betting.
Cheers
Quote from: Fripper on Apr 29, 09:10 AM 2011
Hi drazen
Those bets are only for us to spin at betvoyager. In there we can't spin the wheel how many times in a row as we want and we can't just bet red and black at the same time.
I just answered superman and that had noting to do with your system. It's only to spin 37 times before starting betting.
Cheers
Oh sory i didnt know that :D
Superman. Follow the rules from the first post in this thread.
If you want to share your results please present it just like drazen did. This way we have all crucial informations.
The only difference between drazen's session and the rules from the first post.
1. Bet until 1/2 sleepers appear. Not 2/3
2. Cross off the number that has been hit and don't bet on it anymore.
You can find progression calculator on loothog.com
Btw. I think i came up with something big. I will share as soon as I get home.
Yes guys, it would be great if someone could test for real. Eventhough I have to admit that I have doubts when playing on RNG for real money. :question: Yes and it is very important if you could write down all numbers that were showing during the game, and write them here too.
Regards
Drazen
why dozens and not columns?
or why not combine dozens columns and ec's? to get less numbers to bet.
if we have 12 numbers to bet (doz1=4,doz2=4,doz3=4) then if we account standard deviation of EC we can assume if even or odd or red or black or high or low) are most likely to hit which would reduce numbers to bet.
law of the third should apply to each of those and all together right>?
If you are math guy stop thinking about how "playable" is the method or how much tracking is involved. everything can be coded.
so if you will have some method that can win it does not matter how you need to play.
as long as it wins it can be coded to bots,trackers or even mobiles to help out.
because for now there is no method on that forum that isn't tanking.
You can play dozens, columns, streets, sectors on the wheel (as long as the wheel is not biased).
Remember to include 0. Just like we did it putting it into 1st dozen.
I played 31 games on Party Casino RNG. My procedure would take much too long for life weel.
I'm up 1000 units.
I never lost full progression. If a sleeper doesn't show up too long (beyond 24th spin) and my progression steps are too costly or would further take all bankroll, I just stop and take the loss.
I write off hit sleepers and recalculate progression and I aim to satisfy the 2/3.
Ophis:
A nice tracker tool to automatically calculate and recalculate progression, write off figures, and tells us where how much to bet would ease the work.
Drazen:
Start to play at 1 cent casino and build your bankroll.
cheers and good luck.
Quote from: ophis on Apr 29, 09:57 AM 2011
If you are math guy stop thinking about how "playable" is the method or how much tracking is involved. everything can be coded.
so if you will have some method that can win it does not matter how you need to play.
as long as it wins it can be coded to bots,trackers or even mobiles to help out.
because for now there is no method on that forum that isn't tanking.
And there will never be on 200000---500000 spins test,
Ophis mate.
Rolletti, I really like your idea of cutting the loss early.
Lets say that we take the loss when our progression reach 75% mark.
e.g.. 5 sleepers in a dozen. We can have max. 25 step progresion.
75% will be at step 20, where we lose 365. If we keep going till the last step and lose, we will be down 760.
5 more steps and your loss is doubled...
Quote from: kenio on Apr 29, 11:57 AM 2011
Rolletti, I really like your idea of cutting the loss early.
Lets say that we take the loss when our progression reach 75% mark.
e.g.. 5 sleepers in a dozen. We can have max. 25 step progresion.
75% will be at step 20, where we lose 365. If we keep going till the last step and lose, we will be down 760.
5 more steps and your loss is doubled...
That is not bad idea if system failed. But by now no one didtn report that. Right?
Progression hold everything. Right? Very rare gest close to the edge, but never failed by now. So until that point I will respect full progression. And Roletti i dont understand, you said also that you never lost whole progression. Why would you cut the loss if you dont have to???
At the moment when you cut your loss, you don't know if progression holds up or ot will fail.
I think he is trying to avoid a bad scenario, by cutting the loss early.
this way he only looses part of his bankroll and can start the next one right away.
Quote from: kenio on Apr 29, 12:21 PM 2011
At the moment when you cut your loss, you don't know if progression holds up or ot will fail.
I think he is trying to avoid a bad scenario, by cutting the loss early.
this way he only loses part of his bankroll and can start the next one right away.
I understan all that you are saying. But as I said we still don't know will it crash or not. But I had one time experience that my progression even came out of 37 predictet spins but progression hold it on last point. On live spins. You see? Have faith :D
I can do free spins.
After I stop, I spin without bet to see when the sleeper show up.
In my casino and bankroll I'm able to play progression up to 37+ steps.
But as u calculate 1-25, I would have lost at least once full bankroll. Dont remember so well.
After I stopped somtimes the sleeper showed up 3 spins later, sometimes 15 spins.
I like to protect my bankroll as I'm still building it.
Quote from: Rolletti on Apr 29, 12:34 PM 2011
I can do free spins.
After I stop, I spin without bet to see when the sleeper show up.
In my casino and bankroll I'm able to play progression up to 37+ steps.
But as you calculate 1-25, I would have lost at least once full bankroll. don't remember so well.
After I stopped somtimes the sleeper showed up 3 spins later, sometimes 15 spins.
I like to protect my bankroll as I'm still building it.
One more time, allow me my friend to explain this. I PM-ed my friend Roletti about this, and he told me that he played original idea of system with 2/3. Because he wanted so of course. On his example he had 5 sleepers and he was looking 3 hits, and with 1/2 we would looking 2 hits. We founded that sometimes system in with 2/3 hit can get little after max progression, even with recalculation. So with 1/2 sleepers modifications, this system wouldnt fail at his point realy. :) So with 1/2 system is still pretty safe.
Than you for playing
Regards
Drazen
Sleepers Hit on Spin No
25 9
26
27
28
33
The rest did not show up for more than 37 spins...
Quote from: Rolletti on Apr 29, 04:46 PM 2011
Sleepers Hit on Spin No
25 9
26
27
28
33
The rest did not show up for more than 37 spins...
But did you followed in which spin you would hit?
Was it at Party Casino RNG?
As I promised earlier I want to show you something, This may help to solve the problem with our progression going to far.
We already have had couple situations, where we were short with progression by 2-5 steps. We can agree that's very frustrating.
I'm gonna use one of drazen's session to give an idea, what's in my mind.
---Session one----
1st dozen sleepers
2 -- at 11.spin +27 (-9 down) dozen session stpped
6 -- at 8. spin +4 (-32 down)
10
12
------------
2nd dozen sleepers
14 ---at 6. spin +12 (-24 down)
18
20 --- at 23. spin +30 (-78 down) dozen session stopped
21
-----------------
3rd dozen sleepers
29
33
35---at 3. spin +21 (-15) dozen session stopped
------------------------------
Total session profit 31+42+21=94 units
Drazen used the rules: 1/2 sleepers must be hit and removing bets after hit.
He finished his session at spin 23. That's when the last expected sleeper in dozen 2 was hit.
Lets take a closer look at 3rd dozen. Our number was hit at 3 spin and the session ended at 23 spin.
The opportunity knocks at our door. Why not to give it a shot and play 2/3 sleepers on this dozen. I assume that between spin 3 and 23 neither number 29 nor 33 was hit. So starting with spin 24 we can open a new progression for these two numbers (29,33). The max progression for 2 numbers is 67 steps.
Our dozen was hit 20 spins ago, so it gives us extra 20 steps. Total 87 steps for numbers 29 and 33 to show up.
One of sleepers must appear before spin 90 if we want to play 2/3 rule.
Drazen if you still have records from this session, please tell me at which spin 29 or 33 was hit.
So my idea is, why not to play it the safest possible way. First we aim for only one sleeper in each dozen to hit.When the number is hit we stop playing this dozen. After we have one number in each dozen, we can start aiming for 1/2 sleepers and than 2/3. When target is hit we stop and wait for other dozen to reach its target.
The reason do it, is to give us more steps in our progression.
I hope explained clearly enough. For those who still don't get it I post an example in my next post.
Ok my friend I understand what you are saying but take a look at hits. I have recorded 185 last spins so I will write whenever I had a hit in that period. So you can examine.
2 --11. spin
6 ---8.spin
10-- 91. spin
12-- no hit
14 -at 6.spin
18 -- at36. spin
20 --- at 23. spin
21 --- at 41.spin
29--- 7. spin
33 ---72. spin
35 ---5. spin
You would be wrong. You would fail at that way. But there is a way we wouldnt. I have to remind you that we are playing (examine) through the 37 spin cycle. So if you would start when we had last expected total hit (24.spin) and then started again, you would fail. You see? (max progression for 2 numbers is 67 steps and in first dozen is more than that, you see?) BUT, I was mentioning that in my first post. (for the third 37 spin cycle). If you started again at 75. spin ( playing for 3rd spin cycle and playing with rest of sleepers for this cycle you could expect same amount of hits again) You see what I am talking about? In your way, you would have a hit in 2nd and 3rd dozen, that is true, but you would have to stretch your progression quite well, and in first dozen you would even fail. And if you started in 3rd spin cycle same thing again with rest of the sleepers. You would have one hit less, but you wouldnt fail in 1st dozen. And that is more important. Right? And of course we wouldn have to go so far in our progression.
Regards
Drazen
Quote from: kenio on Apr 29, 05:34 PM 2011
Was it at Party Casino RNG?
And in the meanwhile I had some so bad experience with RNG for real money, that I am now 100000% sure that they are cheating. I was playing black jack but anyway. So I am sure that is the reason why our friend rolleti failed. But we still don't is he really failed. His progression could hold 5 steps more than for his 37. spin cycle. I said that I had already experience like that. My 37 pins cycle was over, but I still didn't have my hit. He happend in spin 42, last step for my progression. But only once for hundrets of tests.
Had anyone played this system on live wheel??
For me only way is to play RNG, because it takes me so long to calculate progression and put the bets on the green.
Sometimes I also feel like RNG is rigged. when No dont hit for so long time or when they hit then they do it on the lowest earning step of the progression.
But with my stop loss looks like a winning system.
Even if on RNG the law of 2/3 fails some time, the system does not fail.
Its not important to win each and every game.
What is important is to win more $$ than to lose.
I love this system.
sometimes it gives side bets too.
when I have lots of RED No while tracking my 37 numbers in the first 15-20 spins I play a permanent bet on black with simple progression and big units.
As we know by finishing the 37 No tracking cycle we have to have about 15 sleepers left. This means a lot of BLACK will hit.
EASY WIN. ;D
Or if one No did not hit after 80-90 spins.
Big unit bet only on this one no using calculated progression.
8)
Yes my friend. You are right about reds nad black. Easy to track and to spot when is good oportunity to take some good money on them :) I can suppose that you are you in plus with this method even that you are using original variant with 2/3 and playing on RNG? :)
If we expect 2/3 sleepers within the dozen will be hit in the next 37 spins, why do we even bother to wait 37 spins to get our sleepers.
We can start from begining when we have 12 sleepers in each dozen. Dozen 1 will have 13 sleepers including zero.
Play it safe way, and assume that half of the sleepers will be hit in the 37spins. This way we only need to adjust our progression, every time the sleeper was hit.
I really like systems that are based on the law of the thirds. I play a few systems of my own based on the thirds. It seems in the systems that deal with the law of the third you are going to have 2/3 of your wins in early stages of play so the other third carry the progression very high. I do not like the very high progressions. The way I play a system like this is if i was betting on 5 sleepers in on dozen I would only play that dozen 7 spins with a staking plan that would win me aprox. 30 units on any of the first 7 spins about 2/3 of the time you should win. If i don't win my play is over, then on my next new game with new numbers I would play with double the units of the game I lost, if I win that gets me very close to even. If the second series would happen to lose you can carry your progression to the next level. On the next new game with new numbers.
which would be 4 units, your basic 1-2-4 but I really don't like the third level and don't really know how much benefit it gives I think its more of a personal preference if you want to play that level. If you play that level you with have the normal 2/3 win rate but if you loses, It takes alot of wins to recover all you losses.
Hope this helps you all win more money with less risk.
Quote from: bigtim08 on Apr 30, 09:51 AM 2011
I really like systems that are based on the law of the thirds. I play a few systems of my own based on the thirds. It seems in the systems that deal with the law of the third you are going to have 2/3 of your wins in early stages of play so the other third carry the progression very high. I do not like the very high progressions. The way I play a system like this is if I was betting on 5 sleepers in on dozen I would only play that dozen 7 spins with a staking plan that would win me aprox. 30 units on any of the first 7 spins about 2/3 of the time you should win. If I don't win my play is over, then on my next new game with new numbers I would play with double the units of the game I lost, if I win that gets me very close to even. If the second series would happen to lose you can carry your progression to the next level. On the next new game with new numbers.
which would be 4 units, your basic 1-2-4 but I really don't like the third level and don't really know how much benefit it gives I think its more of a personal preference if you want to play that level. If you play that level you with have the normal 2/3 win rate but if you loses, It takes a lot of wins to recover all you losses.
Hope this helps you all win more money with less risk.
Thank you for suggestion. Good one. That can be figured out only from experience playing similar systems based on law of the third. I see that :) But we are investigating is there any point, respecting this law that can be taken as a point below system NEVER goes.
ok guys, bot built for BV NZ, its just done its first test run where I just let it run and run with no progression, flat betting all the way, well, after 36 spins it started to bet on the numbers unhit in the 3 seperate dozens, it did 79 spins before hitting one of the unhit numbers, to me that's not too good, now, is this correct?
Quote1. Bet until 1/2 sleepers appear. Not 2/3
2. Cross off the number that has been hit and don't bet on it anymore.
I havent started to remove any numbers that get hit yet was going to work on the 3 individual progressions first, are you removing the number if it hits?
Superman. Remove bet from the number that was hit. Reset and readjust your progression. It gives you couple extra steps.
Quote from: superman on Apr 30, 10:01 AM 2011
Ok guys, bot built for BV NZ, its just done its first test run where I just let it run and run with no progression, flat betting all the way, well, after 36 spins it started to bet on the numbers unhit in the 3 separate dozens, it did 79 spins before hitting one of the unhit numbers, to me that's not too good, now, is this correct?
I haven't started to remove any numbers that get hit yet was going to work on the 3 individual progressions first, are you removing the number if it hits?
So, are you saying that the numbers that hit in the first 36 spins continued to hit until spin 79 and the numbers that were not hit in the first 36 spins did not show until spin 79? I've never seen that happen. Please clarify.
Thanks, WG
Hey guys,
Don't mean to interrupt the flow of things, but I've been playing around with this system and having excellent luck by picking the dozen that has the most unhit numbers in it and betting on it.
Just been using a simple +1 on each loss and back 2 on each win unless at a new high.
There may be something here, may not win enough for all the tracking unless we increase our unit size.
George
QuoteSo, are you saying that the numbers that hit in the first 36 spins continued to hit until spin 79 and the numbers that were not hit in the first 36 spins did not show until spin 79?
correct mate, non of the missing numbers hit through spin 37 to 79, I also thought that was funny/strange/unheard of/RANDOM
Played so far 58 games real money on Party RNG.
The law of the 2/3 is not realy a law. It is more a tendency taken for one specific game.
It becomes a law for BIG number of games on average.
Had now also several Dozens that did not even produce 1/2 of the sleepers in the 37 spin cycle.
Same is true for the Live Wheel on Party.
Its all about a propper stop loss in betting progression.
Quote from: drazen_cro on May 01, 09:52 AM 2011
Yes mate, you are right at some point. But anyway, try this on real wheels.or at least do some tests on real wheel numbers. And when you reach 58 played games from live wheel, look at your bankrol and say that again. RNG respects only law of programer. Or try play the safest possible variation. Stop on 1 st hit in any dozen or on 1st hit in dozen with most sleepers. I didn't say that this method is HG, but there si so much in this, conected with law of the third.
Regards
Drazen
hello george, you been playing the sleepers within the dozen, or the dozen itself?
drazen did say earlier in the thread that the more sleepers in the dozen after tracking, the easier they seem to hit, understandable really.
Hi Everyone, Im a great roulette fan, :)
Nice idea Drazen_cro
This is my first post on this forum, and would like to get involved in this method,
Superman, how many sleepers did you have in each dozen after you waited for the 36 spin?
i. e before they hit on spin 79. for dozen 1,2,3
What Im also doing with this method is to track the dozens as per when spin 37 hits, I look at the the dozen that at that point intime has hit the least, Eg. dozen 1 has just hit 4 times in a row, dozen 2 is sleeping for 4 spins and dozen 3 for 8,now I look to see how many sleepers is in that dozen that hit the least, then see for how man progressions it can go, Because with RNG, man made, it has a bad habit of going to the extremes, so from my experice, from online casinos, I' ve seen a dozen sleep for no more than 33 spins in total. this is done with a 200 000 real gambling spin test from my own account. I know this sounds like alot of tracking but to make money you have to put the work in to see the profits.
As GLC sugested earlier in the post to get one hit one each dozen,which i agree with,but before I choose the dozen that has hit least,I only play one dozen not three for one hit only.
if my progression cannot make it past the 33 spins I simply wait and spin, cancelling 2 of the three dozens as they hit, this will give you additional "free" progressions, by free spinning on playtech platform.
Once I have only one unhit dozen left and for example we had 4 numbers sleeping, table limits 150 max single number I would have a 38 step progression PLUS my additional eg 15 spins it took to cancel 2 of the 3 dozens, so theoretically I now have made a 38 step progession into a 53 step progression. . . . I may not be 100% right with what Im doing but, have not see yet a scenario that has turned sour doing it this way. . . .
Your feed back would be appreciated
Regards
Ginnelli
South Africa
QuoteSuperman, how many sleepers did you have in each dozen after you waited for the 36 spin?
Ek kan nie onthou nie, sorry mate but it was something like
5 in dozen A 6 in dozen B and 3 in dozen C
I have since done as Kenio suggested and remove any that do hit, just havent had time to tell the program to end the attack after 1/2 the sleepers have appeared, been busy with paying work, may look at it again later today.
Quote from: superman link=topic=4960. msg50394#msg50394 date=1304412857
Ek kan nie onthou nie, sorry mate but it was something like
5 in dozen A 6 in dozen B and 3 in dozen C
I have since done as Kenio suggested and remove any that do hit, just haven't had time to tell the program to end the attack after 1/2 the sleepers have appeared, been busy with paying work, may look at it again later today.
Thanks, not bad Afrikaans
Regards
Ginnelli
Quote from: Ginnelli on May 03, 04:29 AM 2011
Hi Everyone, I'm a great roulette fan, :)
Nice idea Drazen_cro
This is my first post on this forum, and would like to get involved in this method,
Superman, how many sleepers did you have in each dozen after you waited for the 36 spin?
i. e before they hit on spin 79. for dozen 1,2,3
What I'm also doing with this method is to track the dozens as per when spin 37 hits, I look at the the dozen that at that point intime has hit the least, e.g.. dozen 1 has just hit 4 times in a row, dozen 2 is sleeping for 4 spins and dozen 3 for 8,now I look to see how many sleepers is in that dozen that hit the least, then see for how man progressions it can go, Because with RNG, man made, it has a bad habit of going to the extremes, so from my experice, from online casinos, I' ve seen a dozen sleep for no more than 33 spins in total. this is done with a 200 000 real gambling spin test from my own account. I know this sounds like a lot of tracking but to make money you have to put the work in to see the profits.
As GLC sugested earlier in the post to get one hit one each dozen,which I agree with,but before I choose the dozen that has hit least,I only play one dozen not three for one hit only.
if my progression cannot make it past the 33 spins I simply wait and spin, cancelling 2 of the three dozens as they hit, this will give you additional "free" progressions, by free spinning on playtech platform.
Once I have only one unhit dozen left and for example we had 4 numbers sleeping, table limits 150 max single number I would have a 38 step progression PLUS my additional e.g. 15 spins it took to cancel 2 of the 3 dozens, so theoretically I now have made a 38 step progession into a 53 step progression. . . . I may not be 100% right with what I'm doing but, have not see yet a scenario that has turned sour doing it this way. . . .
Your feed back would be appreciated
Regards
Ginnelli
South Africa
Welcome to the forum Ginnelli.
You work is appreciated.
Come with some tests in your researchings.
But of course on live (real) numbers only.
Regards
Drazen
Does anybody beside myself play this system?
How are your results?
I have about 140 games now on Party RNG and it works for me.
My amendment ist a more aggressive progression 6-10 steps only. I take this loss and start progression if there are less than 15 spins in my bet spin cycle.
i haven't got enough money for this system yet :) LoL
You are playing on RNG and with orignal idea. And still got profit. Not bad ha? ;)
I ll play that with 1/2 and that will be precise like Swiss Watch :) Yes it is possible to adjust progression during the game. And that works good too. One half never failed in live tests by now...
Hi Rolletti
Yes to your question, just had not had enough time on my hands at the moment, but hopefully later I can get busy with it,glad to see your making good ground with it, especially on RNG, which I prefer to play,when i have some recorded results i will post. . .
To everyone. . ? :)
JUST A thought???? ::), if we are left with example: 3 numbers in a dozen, would it not maybe be better to cover each number with a split bet, ie split on a number that has not hit in 37 spins and a number that has hit more times closes to the unhit number in the 37 spin cycle, covering 6 numbers,to increase the hit rate,and reduce the waiting due to seeing superman waiting 42 spins for one of the numbers to hit? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. . . . . . .
Regards
Ginnelli
Quote from: Ginnelli on May 05, 11:03 AM 2011
Hi Rolletti
Yes to your question, just had not had enough time on my hands at the moment, but hopefully later I can get busy with it,glad to see your making good ground with it, especially on RNG, which I prefer to play,when i have some recorded results i will post. . .
To everyone. . ? :)
JUST A thought???? ::), if we are left with example: 3 numbers in a dozen, would it not maybe be better to cover each number with a split bet, ie split on a number that has not hit in 37 spins and a number that has hit more times closes to the unhit number in the 37 spin cycle, covering 6 numbers,to increase the hit rate,and reduce the waiting due to seeing superman waiting 42 spins for one of the numbers to hit? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. . . . . . .
Regards
Ginnelli
One out of many options posible, of course, yes. Just have to recalcute progression cosidering 17:1 odds.
Quote from: GLC link=topic=4960. msg50136#msg50136 date=1304215044
Hey guys,
Don't mean to interrupt the flow of things, but I've been playing around with this system and having excellent luck by picking the dozen that has the most unhit numbers in it and betting on it.
Just been using a simple +1 on each loss and back 2 on each win unless at a new high.
There may be something here, may not win enough for all the tracking unless we increase our unit size.
Hey George - i just sat here for a couple of hours and did as you said and turned a £500 demo account into nearly £1000 with £1 stakes on a real wheel. That was just for fun though, how is yours working out lately? Thanks to Drazen_cro for opening up an interesting discussion.
Ian
Made a test on this one, on fresh real spins...
start bank 500
::)
(added part2)
A few things I must consider:
Retrack 37 spins no matter what happens.
at the end if I get sleppers=
12-play to 6 hits (not 6 sleepers, since any of them can hit more than once)
13-play to 6 hits
14-play to 7 hits
15-play to 8 hits
16-play to 8 hits
17-play to 9 hits
18-play to 9 hits
...
when game is over I just retrack new 37 spins.
i am using a simple martingale progression. Any suggestions on a more conservative / efficient progression?
i know that by the law we would have 12 sleepers but what does really happens?
anyone knows how many sleepers we should have, average, after 37 spins?
can anyone post that info here?
thanks in advance
it is nice to be back
Quote from: albertojonas on May 10, 10:18 PM 2011
Made a test on this one, on fresh real spins...
start bank 500
::)
(added part2)
A few things I must consider:
Retrack 37 spins no matter what happens.
at the end if I get sleppers=
12-play to 6 hits (not 6 sleepers, since any of them can hit more than once)
13-play to 6 hits
14-play to 7 hits
15-play to 8 hits
16-play to 8 hits
17-play to 9 hits
18-play to 9 hits
...
when game is over I just retrack new 37 spins.
i am using a simple martingale progression. Any suggestions on a more conservative / efficient progression?
i know that by the law we would have 12 sleepers but what does really happens?
anyone knows how many sleepers we should have, average, after 37 spins?
can anyone post that info here?
thanks in advance
it is nice to be back
I can't belive what I see!!! You take all sleepers together and than playing marti on all of them together? Jesus.... I don't have enough words to say how dangerous that is... And bank only 500 units? I can't belive that realy succed to you.
I am not sure that you understand this system realy... Let me tell you. Sometimes in my tests my first sleeper for all of 3 dozens apeared in 9th spin. First sleeper at all! It is not unusal to have 6-7 (even more) spins between hit any sleeper. Your way is hilarious considering that. I would like to see how would your marti handle that. Recommended bank is 2700 units. Sometimes we are betting 3 diferent progressions at the same time. Be aware of that. One wrong step can be deadly and with progression like that you don't want to make wrong steps, belive me on that. Very thankful for testing but you have to do it on the right way mate...
You have detailed progression explained. I don't understand. Why are you playing like that?
I personaly don't like progression, but in the safest variant (1 hit in dozen with most sleepers) it doesn't go so high. (if you don't have enough high bankroll) Progressions for this system sound very scary, but in this case, hits with 1/2 sleepers are quite good controled with explained progression so it shouldnt be problems.
Regards
Drazen
What if we say that according to the law of the third not only will the sleepers hit at a 2/3s rate, but also the numbers that did hit will hit again at a 2/3s rate.
Track for 37/38 spins. take all the numbers that hit and separate them according to 3 sectors on the wheel. You can divide the wheel however you want, but the sectors need to be in consecutive order. Pick the sector with the most numbers hit in it. If you want, you can just pick any consecutive 12 numbers with the most hits in them and start betting on each of these numbers that have hit.
Let's say we had 9 hits in our 12 numbers, we can expect to have 6 of those 9 numbers hit in the next 37/38 spins. We bet these numbers for 1 unit each. Play for 1 win. If we have a new high bank, we continue to play for 1 unit each number. Play for a 2nd win. If we have once again reached a new high bank, we stay at 1 unit but we re-track for a new sector to bet on.
We can start from scratch after our 2nd win with a new 37/38 spins tracking, or we can backtrack however far we want and use those 37/38 numbers. I prefer to backtrack no more than 24 numbers and continue tracking for the next 13/14 spins. Then I determine the numbers I'm going to play.
Anytime we win and are at a new high bank balance, we stay at 1 unit per number. If we win and we are in the hole, we add 1 unit to each number. Every time we win and are minus, we continue to add 1 unit to each number until we finally hit and it brings us to a new high water mark.
This tweak is based on the idea of playing hot numbers, wheel based, instead of cold numbers, table based. By picking the hottest section of the wheel, we are giving ourselves the chance to take advantage of any dealer footprint.
Drazen, if you don't want this idea in your topic, delete it and I will open a new topic with it. :thumbsup:
GLC
Delete??? No mate. Very good idea. I was saying in my first post about that posibilites for hot numbers also. And i exposed my idea for sleepers on roulette board as you can see. But that should effect on the wheel maybe even better... I am doing some tests considering this applying to wheel. I am investigating many new ways of this system, but for me doing this all alone will take some time. Maybe you can run some tests considering that you just explained?
i showld plat 3 different progressions? one for each dozzen?
how i calculate the progression?
should i take a sleeper out once it hits and the recalculate progression?
should i aim for half of the sleepers hit in each dozen?
thx in advance for your attention. i am sorry to ask all this. :o
Quote from: albertojonas on May 11, 12:30 PM 2011
I showld plat 3 different progressions? one for each dozzen?
how I calculate the progression?
should I take a sleeper out once it hits and the recalculate progression?
should I aim for half of the sleepers hit in each dozen?
thanks in advance for your attention. I am sorry to ask all this. :o
Observe and bet all sleepers from one dozen individualy. So that means that you will have 3 progressions at the same time. Whenever you have a hit cross of that number and recalculate progression with the rest of numbers in that dozen. So with every hit in dozen your progression for that dozen will have more steps because you have one number less betting on. Aim 1/2 of sleepers for each dozen. You have recalculated progression for some numbers earlier in the post, for the rest you can use calculator on loothog.com
I cant explain more and easyer to figure than i did. Read whole thread carefuly and you will figure out. And then please come back with some tests on real numbers only.
Regards
Drazen
I got it know
re did the first test with real spins,
first game +169
2nd game +131
not bad at all
what bankroll do you suggest for attack each dozzen?
meaning, 3 separate banks..
best regards
shouldn't we aim for 1/3 of the sleepers in each dozzen?
or am i missreading the law?
testing with 500 bankroll for each dozzen.
has not sunk yet.
;-)
Quote from: albertojonas on May 11, 01:37 PM 2011
Shouldn't we aim for 1/3 of the sleepers in each dozzen?
or am I missreading the law?
testing with 500 bankroll for each dozzen.
has not sunk yet.
;-)
You are missreading the law. It should be 2/3 but sometimes we have fluctuations about that so 1/2 is the best. Just use 1/2.
800 units per dozen for each progression, about 2500 total. Just to be secure
Regards
Drazen
Quote from: drazen_cro on May 11, 02:11 PM 2011
You are missreading the law. It should be 2/3 but sometimes we have fluctuations about that so 1/2 is the best. Just use 1/2.
800 units per dozen for each progression, about 2500 total. Just to be secure
Regards
Drazen
would not be safer?
Quote from: Fripper on Apr 28, 07:23 AM 2011
As I said in one of my posts, I don't chase 2/3 hits on the unhit numbers, I play around 1/2 hits on them.
Here's my chart:
Unhit numbers: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
I bet on: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4 numbers
Example: If I have 5 unhit numbers, I look for 2 hits then take those numbers away.
If I have 6 unhit numbers I bet them until I have 3 hits then don't bet anymore.
I don't take away numbers after a hit.
Here is my first results:
* = highest progression
Session 1 : +202, 68 spins. (-164) *5
Session 2 : +145, 53 spins. (0) *1
Session 3 : +143, 64 spins (-55) *3
Session 4 : +138, 56 spins (-34) *4
Session 5 : +91, 60 spins (-53) *4
Session 6 : +109, 52 spins (-15) *2
Session 7 : +82, 53 spins (-68) *4
Session 8 : +86, 71 spins (-169) *6
Session 9 : +91, 71 spins (-229) *10
Session 10 : +145, 70 spins (-207) *10
:thumbsup:
this sessions are quite revealing...
how many sessions do we have to win to double our bankroll?
the progression is frightening
too much risk for my fainted heart
Quote from: albertojonas on May 11, 06:26 PM 2011
would not be safer?
1/2 didtn fail by now. You can play 1/3, 1/5 if you want....
Quote from: albertojonas on May 11, 11:54 PM 2011
this sessions are quite revealing...
how many sessions do we have to win to double our bankroll?
the progression is frightening
too much risk for my fainted heart
You dont have to play all 3 dozens at the same time. Take one for example with most sleepers and take 1/3 or 1/5
Hi forum members
i downloaded the following system couple of months before. it seems to me drazen system has been reinvented with the progression. the following system was played in flatbetting. great roulette mind people such as GLC, F_LAT_INO, Albertojonas, twisteruk etc could find it useful and could guide us for longterm win. HERE IT GOES: :smile:
"Hey everyone, ::)
====================================
Clercx posted an excellent analogy concerning raindrops and probability.
Mostly concerning sections of the wheel that have failed to show.
If you compare this to rain, you can assume that both are random - but the largest dry area
will probably be receiving raindrops in the very near future since we know the eventual outcome
is complete coverage of the area (wheel).
I'm looking at it another way, although simillar.
Let's look at the 3 dozen sections in front of us at the table as 3 squares side by side (a sidewalk - for this analogy)
All three will receive raindrops randomly, but we can be almost 100% assured that all 3 will never have the same identical pattern between them.
This applies to the dozen sections when looking at the table layout in graphical layout.
Let's assume that after 37 spins we have sleepers in dozen 1 of #3, #8, #9 and #12
What are the odds that dozen 2 and dozen 3 both have those same identical sleepers in their layout ?
for dozen 2 it would be #s 15,20,21,24 and for dozen 3 #s 27,32,33,36
The odds of all three sections having the same pattern is nill in my opinion.
(I'm sure a possible "rare" event though of course)
Now let's assume we have sleepers in the dozen 1 section again of 3,8,9 and 12.
From the above we can "assume" that 15,20,21,24,27,32,33 and 36 "have" hits on them,
probably many but no doubt about average. Will these locations show a higher hit rate than
expected since their dozen 1 neighbor has these same locations as sleepers ?
Let's run off a quick test from actuals and see where the merit in this is (if any)
I chose a random s/h day, in this case Jan 1 2005
We can record the first 37 spins, and have 14 sleepers (as normal).
The sleepers on the image below are left on the layout, the numbers that hit
have been removed.
What we see is that (as expected) the pattern between all 3 dozens is different.
If we look at the corresponding numbers to the sleepers, we can get the following info :
dozen 1 sleepers :
1,2,3,6,8,11,12
the same locations in dozens 2 and 3 :
13,14,15,18,20,23,24,25,26,27,30,32,35,36
(there are 14 numbers here, during the last 37 spins they had 18 hits on them :) )
dozen 2 sleepers :
13,19,22,24
the same locations in dozens 1 and 3 :
1,7,10,12,25,31,34,36
(there are 8 numbers here, during the last 37 spins they had 8 hits on them :) )
dozen 3 sleepers :
28,34,35
the same locations in dozens 1 and 2 :
4,10,11,16,22,23
(there are 6 numbers here, during the last 37 spins they had 8 hits on them :) )
in summary to this point -
we have 14 sleepers total, 28 numbers that are corresponding to those sleepers,
and a total of 34 hits on them.
===
The advantage here ?
Some people will say "so what ? of course the sleepers had 0 shows and the others had
more than average, that's common sense"
also, "what good is this info ? It's from the past and doesn't effect the future spins where
we are going to be playing"
This isn't the case in my opinion.
We can assume a lot with this game,
above we assumed that all 3 dozens wouldn't have the same pattern of sleepers. . and they
don't (and probably almost never will)
Now, we can assume the the next 37 spins will not be identical to the 37 that just happened. . .
(leaving the exact same sleepers in the exact same locations)
What does this tell us if anything ?
Let's look at the dozen with the largest number of sleepers.
This will be our base dozen.
I'll assume that during the next 37 spins there will be hits on these sleepers (somewhere)
and I don't need to know which ones or when actually.
Now, since all 3 dozens won't follow the same pattern, I can assume the the "opposite"
if these sleepers in the other 2 dozens will also show during the next 37.
This leaves us with a bet selection that is very simple.
We are going to bet on the sleepers in the dozen that had the most of them,
in this case Dozen 1
We are also going to bet in the opposite of these numbers in the other two dozens.
From this day - Jan 1 2005 it means the following :
Bets :
Dozen 1 : 1,2,3,6,8,11,12
Dozen 2 : 16,17,19,21,22
Dozen 3 : 28,29,31,33,34
17 number total flat betting $5. 00 each
On any win, we simply add to the winner $5. 00 (there's no sense in removing the bet after it wins if we believe that it will show again)
let's look at the next 37 spins in order :
19 win #1
24
3 win #1
26
15
21 win #1
31 win #1
2 win #1
24
32
25
30
35
12 wn #1
20
9
2 win #2
35
19 win #2
21 win #2
16 win #1
22 win #1
17 win #1
17 win #2
3 win #2
31 win #2
32
18
23
12 win #2
5
10
13
22 win #2
2 win #3
12 win #3
22 win #3
= end of second 37 spin cycle =
Type your title here.
+ $1,315. 00 for only 37 spins.
So far live I've had one +5K day and one +4K day of play using this approach.
Would I call it the holy grail ?
Of course not.
But a better form of bet selection that most systems use, yes.
The probability guys should be able to back up this method also,
although in the end it may fair no better than any other method of play.
==================================
So, what does everyone think about this? :twisted:
THANKS
CATALYST
Thank you Catalyst for this. Personaly I have seen this system already and have been testing in the past for a while...I consider it good also because every time you will be in some plus at least, but not always in the end. So it is important to predict when to stop. That is my opinion.
But I am sure that for someone can be very interersting.
Regards
Drazen
HI DRAZEN
can i adopt your one as flatbetting such as this?
regards
catalyst
Quote from: catalyst on May 12, 08:36 AM 2011
HI DRAZEN
can I adopt your one as flatbetting such as this?
regards
catalyst
Well priciple is similar as yours posted. Sleepers. Why not? Do some tests and you will see. Results are very similar to your posted also. Although progression in mine is sometimes quite high, by now it didint failed at any point. And I always had min 1/2 of sleepers so you got the point why i choose progression :)
Regards
Drazen
Quote from: catalyst on May 12, 07:33 AM 2011
Hi forum members
i downloaded the following system couple of months before. it seems to me drazen system has been reinvented with the progression. the following system was played in flatbetting. great roulette mind people such as GLC, F_LAT_INO, Albertojonas, twisteruk etc could find it useful and could guide us for longterm win. HERE IT GOES: :smile:
"Hey everyone, ::)
So, what does everyone think about this? :twisted:
THANKS
CATALYST
Interesting and good first results.
i tested this system before, and as i remember glc did it too...
marivo, give it a ride. like others it will sink long term, but not on an average session. get out when in plus..
sleeping dozzens will kill it.
Hi All
I Know not everyone likes RNG(Played REAL Money Account- William Hill) but these are my results. Play style: Spin 37 times, record unhit numbers in dozen 1,2 and 3, from spin38 onwards, I have continued spinning crossing off two of the dozens i. e. when we have a hit in each, then start to bet on the remaining dozen( progression as per amount of numbers left) for one hit only then restart. Total spins 851, total profit: 405 units
Session = Profit = Amount of spins to cancel 2 dozens = Hit last dozen
1. 12 8 12
2. 22 34 7
3. 7 9 10
4. 24 4 2
5. 6 6 10
6. 20 8 4
7. 24 3 27
8. 24 10 10
9. 16 2 10
10. 24 25 3
11. 30 2 19
12. 6 5 10
13. 29 4 13
14. 24 27 3
15. 20 6 15
16. 28 5 2
17. 8 8 7
18. 6 5 10
19. 30 6 3
20. 6 4 10
21. 16 6 10
22. 14 3 22
23. 9 14 9
Quote from: Ginnelli on May 13, 10:47 AM 2011
Hi All
I Know not everyone likes RNG(Played REAL Money Account- William Hill) but these are my results. Play style: Spin 37 times, record unhit numbers in dozen 1,2 and 3, from spin38 onwards, I have continued spinning crossing off two of the dozens i. e. when we have a hit in each, then start to bet on the remaining dozen( progression as per amount of numbers left) for one hit only then restart. Total spins 851, total profit: 405 units
Session = Profit = Amount of spins to cancel 2 dozens = Hit last dozen
1. 12 8 12
2. 22 34 7
3. 7 9 10
4. 24 4 2
5. 6 6 10
6. 20 8 4
7. 24 3 27
8. 24 10 10
9. 16 2 10
10. 24 25 3
11. 30 2 19
12. 6 5 10
13. 29 4 13
14. 24 27 3
15. 20 6 15
16. 28 5 2
17. 8 8 7
18. 6 5 10
19. 30 6 3
20. 6 4 10
21. 16 6 10
22. 14 3 22
23. 9 14 9
Thank you Ginnelli for posting results. :thumbsup:
I've tried various approaches as suggested on this thread and also today I tried Ginellis approach as he mentioned above. I played it at a live wheel for 2 sessions - took ages. Here are the results after the first 37 spins:
Session = Profit = Amount of spins to cancel 2 dozens = Hit last dozen
1. +20 9 2
2. +33 13 12
Hope this helps someone.
Ian
Hi Broadsword uk
Thanks for giving it a go, I know it does take time if your playing live wheel,
but I think it is safer that way, just my thoughts. . . .
Appreciate it. :thumbsup:
Ginnelli
Not bad guys :) Everyone can decide in which way he will play, little more o littles less risky. But if you are not ready to take some time for this game, not to be concetrated all the time during play and always follow strict rules for any system I suggest this game is not for you. Of course your win is not even then guaranteed, but you have more chance to win in long term. That can be very dangerous. Thank you for posting results :thumbsup:
Regards
Drazen
Ok, here is another test of Ginnellis approach. Another long session. In the final dozen there were only 2 numbers left and both were on the 'supercold list' at supercasino. com. As you can see it took 78 real spins from the start of play to get that one hit! (37+17+24).
Session = Profit = Amount of spins to cancel 2 dozens = Hit last dozen
1. +10 17 24
I think that's me done testing now as I'm becoming a couch potato and a bit of a nerd!
Ian
Drazen,
i dream about dubrovnic... ;)
i know you can help me on this question:
How many sleepers hit (statistically of course) in the next 36 spins?
hoping to play this low bankroll flat betting
Cheers...
Quote from: albertojonas on May 15, 12:22 AM 2011
Drazen,
i dream about dubrovnic... ;)
i know you can help me on this question:
How many sleepers hit (statistically of course) in the next 36 spins?
hoping to play this low bankroll flat betting
Cheers...
Yes mate you should come to the Dubrovnik. One of the most beautifull places in the world :)
I told you about sleepers. We should have about 2/3 of hits in our 37 spins and the rest are sleepers :) And when you aplly that in our sleepers (37th-74th spin) you will see that law again. So thath means if you had for example 15 sleepers after first 37 spins, after 2nd 37 spin cycle there should be 2/3 hits of that sleepers and 1/3 unhit of course, and that is about 5 unhit number after second 37 spin cycle. It is not always like that precisley. Sometimes we have minor fluctuations, we don't have exactly 2/3 of hits in every dozen, so we take 1/2. (but when that happens in one dozen in the other you will have much more than expected hits because law of the thirds considering total hits also has to be satisfied) In my test I have never had less than 1/2 hits of sleepers in every dozen. You can play flat bet of course, but you don't know exactly in which spin you will have a hit and how many spins are between hits. Sometimes that happens early, but sometimes quite later. It also depends how many sleepers you have in dozen also. I hope you understand now.
Regards
Drazen
My god...i use it on betvoyager and it works like magik...i stop each session when i have left 1 unhited number...the progression never excited the 25th step but you know what i like most?...So far the excellent results give me the false feeling that some of the numbers i have bet will get hit soon or later and i'll get my profit...i use the app you proposed to calculate my progressions(1 for each dozen) and i get one 20% moreless proft from my starting BR...nice job man...and i am sure it can be improved even more and i have made thoughts about it...
Quote from: xxlakis on May 19, 06:06 PM 2011
My God...i use it on betvoyager and it works like magik...i stop each session when I have left 1 unhited number...the progression never excited the 25th step but you know what I like most?...So far the excellent results give me the false feeling that some of the numbers I have bet will get hit soon or later and i'll get my profit...i use the app you proposed to calculate my progressions(1 for each dozen) and I get one 20% moreless proft from my starting BR...nice job man...and I am sure it can be improved even more and I have made thoughts about it...
Lets hear it,we listening.
Quote from: xxlakis link=topic=4960. msg52471#msg52471 date=1305842769
My God. . . I use it on betvoyager and it works like magik. . . I stop each session when I have left 1 unhited number. . . the progression never excited the 25th step but you know what I like most?. . . So far the excellent results give me the false feeling that some of the numbers I have bet will get hit soon or later and i'll get my profit. . . I use the app you proposed to calculate my progressions(1 for each dozen) and I get one 20% moreless proft from my starting BR. . . nice job man. . . and I am sure it can be improved even more and I have made thoughts about it. . .
Great to hear, please share your thoughts to improve, ;)
Were you playing for real money or free money/real money account spins only?
Ginnelli
Quote from: Ginnelli on May 20, 01:51 AM 2011
Great to hear, please share your thoughts to improve, ;)
Were you playing for real money or free money/real money account spins only?
Ginnelli
Real money...10ct unit and i doubled my 1000 BR...i just want to explain how i play it so drazen can make any comment that would help me because when he explained the system i didn't understood all the variations...i spin the wheel 37 times and i check for each dozen the sleepers and i expect the 2/3 of them to get hit to the coming spins so i calculate the progression for each dozen according the number of sleepers i bet and i start...when i have a hit on a dozen's sleeper i recalculate and reset progression and i continue till i have hit the 2/3 of the betting sleeperss.Well usually i don't expect to hit all the 2/3 but if i have 1-2 left i end session as far as i am even in a little profit.I just don't know if i must follow the progressions as far as they go cause i have the BR to folow even 60 step progressions but i am not sure if i must follow it till the end...
Quote from: xxlakis link=topic=4960. msg52582#msg52582 date=1305873558
Real money. . . 10ct unit and I doubled my 1000 BR. . . i just want to explain how I play it so drazen can make any comment that would help me because when he explained the system I didn't understood all the variations. . . i spin the wheel 37 times and I check for each dozen the sleepers and I expect the 2/3 of them to get hit to the coming spins so I calculate the progression for each dozen according the number of sleepers I bet and I start. . . when I have a hit on a dozen's sleeper I recalculate and reset progression and I continue till I have hit the 2/3 of the betting sleeperss. Well usually I don't expect to hit all the 2/3 but if I have 1-2 left I end session as far as I am even in a little profit. I just don't know if I must follow the progressions as far as they go cause I have the BR to follow even 60 step progressions but I am not sure if I must follow it till the end. . .
Drazen will comment regarding to his first post, I play it slightly diffrently aswell, as per my post earlier. . . . .
was it live wheel or RNG xxlakis?
regards
Ginnelli
Quote from: Ginnelli on May 20, 04:03 AM 2011
Drazen will comment regarding to his first post, I play it slightly diffrently as well, as per my post earlier. . . . .
was it live wheel or RNG xxlakis?
regards
Ginnelli
RNG-Betvoyager...to live wheel it is impossible for me to play it casue i need time to recalculate progressions and change the bets in about 45'' most live wheels let you between spins..not mention about tracking,this saturday i will visit real casino just to test 2-3 systems i have in mind...i wish i could test this one also...
Οk...i've been thinking about this.Based on the original idea we take the sleepers ftom 37 specific spins and we analyze them so we make the suitable bets.But as far as we know the law of the third rules not for those exact 37 spins but every spin that comes during the game...as far as we spin the wheel some sleepers will awake but some sleepers will be created for sure...so i've been thinking to add them to our bets while we play...of course that way we'll be betting to more numbers which means shorter progressions and more money to risk but the law that way will be getting even stronger with each number we add which is the point of this system...well maybe depenting on the tests we would need just flat-bet with no progressions who knows...i'll do some testing about that and let you know guys...
Quote from: xxlakis on May 20, 06:29 PM 2011
Οk...i've been thinking about this.Based on the original idea we take the sleepers ftom 37 specific spins and we analyze them so we make the suitable bets.But as far as we know the law of the third rules not for those exact 37 spins but every spin that comes during the game...as far as we spin the wheel some sleepers will awake but some sleepers will be created for sure...so i've been thinking to add them to our bets while we play...of course that way we'll be betting to more numbers which means shorter progressions and more money to risk but the law that way will be getting even stronger with each number we add which is the point of this system...well maybe depenting on the tests we would need just flat-bet with no progressions who knows...i'll do some testing about that and let you know guys...
Ok i just finished 2 sessions on BV and it went really really good...any progression didn't pass the 10th step in about 200 spins and that's really something...every time i was adding one sleeping number to my bets 4 spins later the most one of my other sleepers got hit...maybe we can use this as trigger if we have patience...works really sweet... :thumbsup:
Quote from: xxlakis on May 20, 08:51 PM 2011
Ok I just finished 2 sessions on BV and it went really really good...any progression didn't pass the 10th step in about 200 spins and that's really something...every time I was adding one sleeping number to my bets 4 spins later the most one of my other sleepers got hit...maybe we can use this as trigger if we have patience...works really sweet... :thumbsup:
ok thank you for playing i am glad that you find my method interesting and profitable. i am working at some job next 10 days so i dont have much time to spend here on forum and testing and playing this method. i have much more ideas about this. i like your idea also. this system can be played on hundreds of ways. all you need is little thinking and concetration.
Regards
Drazen
How do you manage to track all the numbers as they come on and off the list? I really like drazens and ginnellis approach but this is like a rolling system which kind of makes it hard to track. Do you have any 'recording system'. i don't do RNG but would like a way of doing it within 45 seconds if at all possible.
Good work.
ian
Quote from: xxlakis link=topic=4960. msg52714#msg52714 date=1305930570
Οk. . . i've been thinking about this. Based on the original idea we take the sleepers ftom 37 specific spins and we analyze them so we make the suitable bets. But as far as we know the law of the third rules not for those exact 37 spins but every spin that comes during the game. . . as far as we spin the wheel some sleepers will awake but some sleepers will be created for sure. . . so i've been thinking to add them to our bets while we play. . . of course that way we'll be betting to more numbers which means shorter progressions and more money to risk but the law that way will be getting even stronger with each number we add which is the point of this system. . . well maybe depenting on the tests we would need just flat-bet with no progressions who knows. . . i'll do some testing about that and let you know guys. . .
I Like your thinking,by adding new sleepers as we go,When I have some more time later I will give it a go, :thumbsup:
Regards
Ginnelli
Well so far this is the system i use mostly and the last 2 weeks helped me grow my BR about 10!! times until yesterday when i had 6 numbers in one dozen and none of them !!!! showed for 33 spins.Well i got really pissed and i decided to play it ever safer....session last's till hald expected sleepers got hit(maybe even less) or my current profit is 100 units plus...almost hit and run...
Quote from: xxlakis on May 25, 09:11 AM 2011
Well so far this is the system I use mostly and the last 2 weeks helped me grow my BR about 10!! times until yesterday when I had 6 numbers in one dozen and none of them !!!! showed for 33 spins. Well I got really pissed and I decided to play it ever safer. . . . session last's till hald expected sleepers got hit(maybe even less) or my current profit is 100 units plus. . . almost hit and run. . .
Hi xxlakis
Sorry to hear that!
did you play it the original way as in first post, i. e. playing all three dozens? or waiting for 2 of the 3 dozens to cancel out and then playing last unhit dozen? Thats the way I like to play it,as per previous post, Superman showed us from spin 36 to 72 it took 42 spins before one sleeper got hit!Thats why I prefer to rather wait to cancel dozens out and to get a hit first, then proceed to play...just a thought. ???
Regards
Ginnelli
Quote from: broadsword_uk on May 21, 08:12 AM 2011
How do you manage to track all the numbers as they come on and off the list? I really like drazens and ginnellis approach but this is like a rolling system which kind of makes it hard to track. Do you have any 'recording system'. I don't do RNG but would like a way of doing it within 45 seconds if at all possible.
Good work.
ian
Unfortunately it is impossible to be played this way live...i have all the number from 1 to 36 to a list and next tot them i write how many times the are shown to the previous 37 spins.whenerver a number drops of the list i reduce it by one the number next to it and whenever get's hit i add it by one...that means that whenever it becomes zero othen this number is sleeper so i bet him too...really simple but impossible for live wheel...
Quote from: Ginnelli on May 25, 09:19 AM 2011
Hi xxlakis
Sorry to hear that!
did you play it the original way as in first post, i. e. playing all three dozens? or waiting for 2 of the 3 dozens to cancel out and then playing last unhit dozen? that's the way I like to play it,as per previous post, Superman showed us from spin 36 to 72 it took 42 spins before one sleeper got hit!that's why I prefer to rather wait to cancel dozens out and to get a hit first, then proceed to play...just a thought. ???
Regards
Ginnelli
Well i play all dozens together from the beginning...it's point of view...i just think that if you wait 2 dozens to be cancelled just to start playing the third one it's little tricky cause some of the sleepers of the third one might get hit while you play the other two so they'll take a little more to appear again.As i said before i don't wait to hit all the expected sleepers...i may end a session even with none of the dozens cancelled...whenever i hit about half of the sleepers or i am at least 50 units up i am out of here..and of course i will not follow any progression for too long again...waste of mental health ::) and maybe waste of money...well if you don't want to play all the dozens from the beginning you can keep the 2 of them with the most sleepers and forget the third one for good....
Ok I just finished 11 sessions that gave me a profit about +630 units...and as I said I i am REALLY careful about how long i'll follow a progression even if I know that I could have bigger profit.I must say that if you can control your greed this is a lethal weapon...i don't know why this staff doesn't have much attention..i guess most players like outside bets for safety...there is no other explanation...hmmmm...
Quote from: xxlakis on May 25, 12:30 PM 2011
Well I play all dozens together from the beginning...it's point of view...i just think that if you wait 2 dozens to be cancelled just to start playing the third one it's little tricky cause some of the sleepers of the third one might get hit while you play the other two so they'll take a little more to appear again.As I said before I don't wait to hit all the expected sleepers...i may end a session even with none of the dozens cancelled...whenever I hit about half of the sleepers or I am at least 50 units up I am out of here..and of course I will not follow any progression for too long again...waste of mental health ::) and maybe waste of money...well if you don't want to play all the dozens from the beginning you can keep the 2 of them with the most sleepers and forget the third one for good....
hi xxlakis
Sorry,I did not explain properly,after the 37 spins,I continue to spin to get hits in two dozens only and then the third unhit dozen(no sleepers have been hit yet),I will then only play that unhit dozen for one hit only...then restart... :smile:
Regards
Ginnelli
Quote from: xxlakis on May 25, 09:11 AM 2011
Well so far this is the system I use mostly and the last 2 weeks helped me grow my BR about 10!! times until yesterday when I had 6 numbers in one dozen and none of them !!!! showed for 33 spins.Well I got really pissed and I decided to play it ever safer....session last's till hald expected sleepers got hit(maybe even less) or my current profit is 100 units plus...almost hit and run...
Hi i am back again. Can i ask did you play this on RNG when you had that situation with no hit for any of 6 sleepers in 33 spins?
Quote from: drazen_cro on May 26, 10:09 AM 2011
Hi I am back again. Can I ask did you play this on RNG when you had that situation with no hit for any of 6 sleepers in 33 spins?
Yeah RNG-Betvoyager
Quote from: xxlakis on May 26, 12:46 PM 2011
Yeah RNG-Betvoyager
Dont want to offend you mate, and i am sorry that you had that lose but i am 10000000% convinced that happend because of RNG. They are cheating at some point always. Any RNG. Proven by myself with 100000%. But as you said that you raised 10X your bank i hope damage is not too big. Play on live wheels at least if you cant on land casinos. That is my suggestion.
Quote from: drazen_cro on May 26, 12:56 PM 2011
don't want to offend you mate, and I am sorry that you had that lose but I am 10000000% convinced that happend because of RNG. They are cheating at some point always. Any RNG. Proven by myself with 100000%. But as you said that you raised 10X your bank I hope damage is not too big. Play on live wheels at least if you can't on land casinos. That is my suggestion.
I don't know but for RNG on BV i heard mostly positive comments and by myself i've never seen something really strange expect the incident i had...i wish i could play on live wheel but in 45'' between spins i can't arrange my bet and the progressions and after all it would take me much time for the tracking...well for now as i told i am doing really good again and just in case i keep my sessions really short and i close and reload new window after every session...by the way thanks for the food for thought you gave me with your post :thumbsup:
Quote from: drazen_cro on May 26, 12:56 PM 2011
... but I am 10000000% convinced that happend because of RNG. They are cheating at some point always. Any RNG. Proven by myself with 100000%. ...
I´m convinced you just didn´t see enough spins. It will happen on live-wheels as well.
How did you prove? Is there any combination of spins which is impossible?
br
winkel
Quote from: winkel on May 26, 01:20 PM 2011
I´m convinced you just didn´t see enough spins. It will happen on live-wheels as well.
How did you prove? Is there any combination of spins which is impossible?
br
winkel
I proved on black jack but there should be no diference. I know that this is not HG method but long term winner I am sure.
Regards
Drazen,
I want to commend you for the effort you are putting into this, and also for sharing it with us. With that being said I would like to offer my opinion of what is really happening.
This system is a "FAIL", it is nothing more than a simple progression bet on 12 singles, using "any" 12 numbers from a single "0" roulette wheel would yield the same results.
All you have done is used applied logic in an improper form, to create the amount of numbers to use, and to justify the outcome.
Because it is a progressive betting system, it "may" work in the short term, but it will ultimately fail in the long run.
Quote from: SirWilliam on May 27, 01:41 PM 2011
Drazen,
I want to commend you for the effort you are putting into this, and also for sharing it with us. With that being said I would like to offer my opinion of what is really happening.
This system is a "FAIL", it is nothing more than a simple progression bet on 12 singles, using "any" 12 numbers from a single "0" roulette wheel would yield the same results.
All you have done is used applied logic in an improper form, to create the amount of numbers to use, and to justify the outcome.
Because it is a progressive betting system, it "may" work in the short term, but it will ultimately fail in the long run.
As any other progressive method unless its
used in short winning cycles with restart button and stop los attitude.
Drazen is aware of this fact hopping that someone can improve base bet
he has introduced here..-..and bearing in mind he did it with his very first
post here......Bravo Drazen.....good work....regardless if it works or not.
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on May 27, 02:02 PM 2011
As any other progressive method unless its
used in short winning cycles with restart button and stop-loss attitude.
Drazen is aware of this fact hopping that someone can improve base bet
he has introduced here..-..and bearing in mind he did it with his very first
post here......Bravo Drazen.....good work....regardless if it works or not.
Yes FLatino!
This is one good view from wich one can build up very profitable systems.
Quite a concept
Quote from: SirWilliam on May 27, 01:41 PM 2011
Drazen,
I want to commend you for the effort you are putting into this, and also for sharing it with us. With that being said I would like to offer my opinion of what is really happening.
This system is a "FAIL", it is nothing more than a simple progression bet on 12 singles, using "any" 12 numbers from a single "0" roulette wheel would yield the same results.
All you have done is used applied logic in an improper form, to create the amount of numbers to use, and to justify the outcome.
Because it is a progressive betting system, it "may" work in the short term, but it will ultimately fail in the long run.
Everyone has right to his opinion. Of course it will fail at some point in this form once even in live play. Every system does. Xxlakis gained 10 times his bankrol with this and you said this system is FAIL? And did you noticed that recommend bankroll for this is respectful amount of money? And that fail that happened in xxlakis play on RNG was in one dozen and you have 3 of them at the same time? And when you gain your bankroll 10 times with that damage is realy not big. I posted this because i belive it has some merit and this base can be much improved.
Drazen
Yesterday i had my first session on roulette, on airball. My goal was +100 units, of course with using several diferent systems. I used this system in one part of my game also. (because i didnt have large bank to play in full variant) As i said before FLAT is my teacher in this, and he taught me many important things about this game and i am sure i have one of the best teachers here. So dont worry about me. Thank you FLATINO. Now i know that there is no system that will ALWAYS win. It is important to achieve you goal with several systems during the play. Whenever i am in plus with some system i switch to another and so on until i reach my not so big profit goal. Bread and butter only. Switching systems at the right time is the thing that will keep me alive or at least protect me from some bigger loses. Even winnig method in wrong hands is losing i am sure.
Regards
Drazen
I still hope any of you who can help me to improve this system will do that. I think base is good and we can tweak it to work even better. My last observations about this are related to trends. Maybe like that to improve power of this?
Quote from: drazen_cro on May 28, 05:45 AM 2011
I still hope any of you who can help me to improve this system will do that. I think base is good and we can tweak it to work even better. My last observations about this are related to trends. Maybe like that to improve power of this?
Drazen don't worry to much. This system is superb and be careful because too many tweaks can ruin it :)
Remember its almost impossible to make system that will win on every single combination of spins.
Either way its time for me to code this baby so today I will try to read this entire thread. I have no idea how many mods/modification there is here but seeing 13 pages I think there may be few of them. Do you have any suggestions about optimal rules for this system that you would like to see coded? Or should I read it all and decide by myself?
PS: Have you decided how should this system be Named?
PS2: If its annoying for you to write down everything from beginning you could guide me like this:
"Rules from 1st post + modification from post 56 +90 +125" <- just an example
Quote from: drazen_cro on May 28, 02:51 AM 2011
... Switching systems at the right time is the thing that will keep me alive or at least protect me from some bigger loses. Even winnig method in wrong hands is losing I am sure...
Thats why MST Project is being developed :thumbsup:
Quote from: ophis on May 28, 06:31 AM 2011
Drazen don't worry to much. This system is superb and be careful because too many tweaks can ruin it :)
Remember its almost impossible to make system that will win on every single combination of spins.
Either way its time for me to code this baby so today I will try to read this entire thread. I have no idea how many mods/modification there is here but seeing 13 pages I think there may be few of them. Do you have any suggestions about optimal rules for this system that you would like to see coded? Or should I read it all and decide by myself?
PS: Have you decided how should this system be Named?
PS2: If its annoying for you to write down everything from beginning you could guide me like this:
"Rules from 1st post + modification from post 56 +90 +125" <- just an example
Hi Ophis. Very thankful for this. I think coding this is not bad idea. I ll explain to you everything I can and what I think is important. When you read all you can pm if something stays uncleared. Okay. We track first 37 numbers and record sleepers. We will bet our sleepers through every dozen separately next 37 spins. We are using max progression possible for every dozen individualy. How many steps it will be it depends on how many sleepers we have in each dozen. And here are latest tweaks: we are looking for 1/2 of sleepers in every dozen and after every hit we cross of that sleeper, recalculate progression with the rest of sleepers in that dozen and continue to bet until we get 1/2 hitted sleepers in every dozen separately. When we have dozen with one sleeper we dont bet that dozen because 1/2 for 1 is not hole unit. we cant guarantee for that. That is main idea. I hope you understand. Nothing too much complicated I hope :)
The name can be "waking sleepers method" or you can call as you like. That is less important :)
Best regards
Drazen
#1:
Original system is to bet until 2/3 of sleepers in particular dozen have hit.
Mod1 is to bet until 1/2 of sleepers in particular dozen have hit.
So you want to have option to choose between those 2?
Correct?
#2:
What is the minimum numbers to bet on (from all dozens all together).
Example: (if we had in one of the dozens 6 numbers to bet then we bet that dozen until 2 numbers left 6/3=2 BUT after every other dozen have no more numbers to bet then we are left we 2 numbers to bet and those 2 numbers can REALLY sleep for 200+ spins)
#3:
After we have no more numbers to bet in either of the dozen how do you want it to retrack?
Gather 36 NEW spins
or
Take LAST 36 spins and recalculate everything automatically
(this will result in constant betting after the initial 36 spins)
#4:
Could you please explain in details progression?
#5:
Are there any other mods you would like to have implemented?
Hi Drazen
Hope you are well, since this is your system, I would like to ask if it would be alright to add a feature into Ophis clicker,were we can be able to select amount of dozens to play, i.e. wait for one or two dozens to be hit once leaving 1 or 2 unhit dozens ( no sleepers have been hit yet in that particular dozen/s )then to prompt you to play remaing dozens?Maybe be able to select amount of sleepers to show before proceeding to bet?so basically if the required amount of sleepers is not present then it will not prompt play? and lastley maybe where we can imput 1/3, or 1/2 or 1 hit according to the sleepers ratio? would like to be able to do some testings with this small change, taking into account as per previous posts to try to prevent the 42 spins it took before it started to hit.
Thanking you in advance
Regards
Ginnelli
Thanks my friend for asking. I am really fine. I hope you are also. Of course your suggestions are welcome and they are good. Past few days, Ophis and me were clearing some things that has to be added in tracker considering this system. But if he can add these yours suggestions also it is perfectly fine with me. Everyone should find his way how and when to start play this system. That is my opinion.
Regards
Drazen
Quote from: drazen_cro on May 31, 04:45 AM 2011
Thanks my friend for asking. I am really fine. I hope you are also. Of course your suggestions are welcome and they are good. Past few days, Ophis and me were clearing some things that has to be added in tracker considering this system. But if he can add these yours suggestions also it is perfectly fine with me. Everyone should find his way how and when to start play this system. That is my opinion.
Regards
Drazen
Thanks Drazen,Great system of yours!
Will you share this with ophis?
Regards
Ginnelli
No problems mate, but I think it is maybe better for you to do with him. I can maybe make some mistakes in these your suggestions, but you can give him more precise and better instructions about your improving suggestions and that is very important. I hope that is okay with you, and you understand what I want to say, but I can do it of course if you want. :thumbsup: i still think we can all together make him better. Thanks.
Regards
Drazen
Thank you Drazen
I think it is better to come from you rather as the system developer,
as don't want to seem to be taking over your ideas.
Very simply put as to your system,
Option 1:
Select amount of dozens to play, i.e. 1,2 or 3 Dozens,(3 dozens as per your system)
if we select 1 or 2 dozens to play then it means we need a hit in a dozen or dozens
( any number/sleepers) to be left with unhit dozen/s according to amount selected for play,
before we proceed play on the selected amount of dozen/s
(these dozens sleepers have not been hit yet).
Option 2:
Select amount of sleepers per dozen according to Option 1: before prompting play.
We are able to say e.g. if we select to play 2 dozens, can be any two left, and which ever
comes first, we can specify the amount of of sleepers to have left, max 5 min 3 (3 to 5 sleepers only ) or max 3 min 3(3 sleepers only,can be any amount). if those remaining dozen/s do not have the required
amount of sleepers,it will not prompt play.
Option 3:
Ratio of hits wanted per session/per dozen,we can say 1/3 or 1/2 or 2, or 1, ect...
Option 4: RNG players, Only for 1 or 2 dozen play: ???
If e.g. to be able to imput that if the last unhit dozen/s has not been hit for 0 spins or
8 spins,or 5 spins ect. then it will prompt play?if it has been hit within the required amount, then will not prompt play. This is because I have seen a dozen sleep for up to 33 spins RNG,not live wheel. This would work together with amount
of sleepers left to take a more calculated risk as to how far your progression can go.
P.S. This is only my opinion, thoughts that I maybe think could help.
Thanking you in advance
Ginnelli :thumbsup:
This system (Waking Sleepers Method) have already been implemented with that kind of options:
Betting mode:
2/3 and 1/2
Minimum profit per dozen
(set on 1 and you have flat bet, set anything else and progression will be calculated automatically)
Maximum numbers of units to bet per number (used in progression)
Minimum numbers to bet (combined form all dozens)
(do not bet if you have less than X amount of numbers to bet)
Retracking mode:
Gather 37 NEW spins.
Gather LAST 37 spins (constant betting after the initial 37 spins)
For now I have stopped working on this system because I still have few other things to do with MST and I want to release it asap.
After release we can think about putting those modifications you mentioned.
Hi Ophis
Hope you are doing well.
No problem, Thank you very much anyway.Discuss it another time again once released. :thumbsup:
Regards
Ginnelli
This system in now coded in to Multi System Tracker.
for further details please visit:
link:://rouletteforum.cc/mst-project/ (link:://rouletteforum.cc/mst-project/)
hey guys..... How you feeling about his approach after viewing the MST tracker results. From the figures i have imported I have seen steady gains with a sloping graph but big drawdowns that would require a change of underwear. What have you found the best settings? Are your experiences the same as mine?
Ginelli - how you getting on with your version? Its a shame that we cannot yet play yours with the tracker but Ophis has done a great job so far! Hats off.
Thanks everyone i'm glad you like new tracker.
Its first version so everything can be done better :thumbsup:
Could I ask for any briefing on whats need to be added?
Hi Ophis,
Well it was Ginelli's idea so he will be the one best to ask but it was like this:
Track the 37 spins as normal. Identify the sleepers in each of the 3 dozens but do not bet yet. Continue spinning and we are looking for a sleeper in one of the dozens to be hit. Then we close down that dozen as we are not interested in any sleepers there. We turn our attention to the remaining 2 dozens and continue spinning until we hit a sleeper in one of those remaining dozens and then we close that dozen down. That leaves us with one dozen in active play and this is when we star betting using the progression laid out at link:://:.loothog.com/Systems/prog.html (link:://:.loothog.com/Systems/prog.html)
The stakes depend on how many numbers are left in that active dozen. We stop the moment the first sleeper is hit. Rinse and repeat.
I wanted to ask you Ophis about the staking plan you've used on MST for this waking sleepers programme. Is it based on the loothog progression on the number of sleepers left? If not, can it be (with due agreement from the system's author)?
Ian
Ian
Quick explanation about WSM tracker.
1. Minimum profit per dozen
2. Maximum amount of units to bet per number
Those 2 options are used in calculating progression.
If those 2 options will be set up on "1" then tracker will flat bet.
If we will setup minimum profit per dozen on 30 and maximum units on 25 then tracker will calculate separate progression for each dozen according to formula:
for i:=1 to units_limit do
if dX_profit+((36*i)-(length(to_bet_dX)*i))>=min_profit then begin
units_dX:=i;
Break;
end;
-------------------------
3. Minimum numbers to bet:
This was implemented because when testing we have noticed that lots of the drawdowns are made because we are betting 1-3 numbers for around 50-100 spin (its not uncommon).
that's why this was implemented so if this is setup on 4 then
even if you have in D1 - 1number, D2 - 0numbers, D3 - 2numbers
tracker will stop betting and retrack to avoid betting on ultimate sleepers.
4. Wait for X amount of dozens to hit before betting.
This is mod you have requested.
If you want to set it up to wait for 2 dozens then I suggest changing option nr3 on "0" because its not uncommon for dozen to be left with 3-5 numbers to bet. If option nr3 will be setup on 4 then probably you wont have anything to bet.
[attachimg=#1]
I am posting in hopes of helping you guys when you are testing this system.
These numbers show how far a group of un-hit numbers can go without hitting.
For example, if you started progression betting on a group of 12 numbers after spin 37, then you would need your progression to be 36 numbers long to cover that group successfully.
(Groups) (Casino 504,808)(Random. org 504,808)(R-Xtreme 504,808)
1
2
3
4 178 178 168
5 151 152 145
6 137 136 128
7 121 122 113
8 105 115 112
9 90 95 94
10 86 90 86
11 83 82 79
12 72 71 72
13 71 69 69
14 62 64 63
15 58 63 62
16 51 50 56
17 47 48 50
18 44 47 46
19 40 45 43
20 39 42 42
21 33 39 36
22 32 33 34
23 30 30 32
24 28 27 28
25 24 24 26
26 23 23 24
27 21 20 21
28 19 19 18
29 16 16 15
30 14 14 14
31 12 12 13
32 10 10 11
33 8 8 8
34 6 7 7
Hi Sir William.
Thanks for your input. What we have been playing with is not to start betting after 37 spins but to WAIT until 2 of the dozens have been hit by at least one number and then only start betting on the last remaining dozen and STOP after just one number has been hit. In practice the first bet is at around 40 to 50 spins. I haven't been spending much time on this as I might have because I have been focussing on Divide and Conquer.
If you have any stats on how long it takes 1 number to be hit on a dozen it would be interesting. MST has been throwing up some interesting results but it doesn't stop at a winner yet as it plays on until half or two thirds have been hit. I think Ginneli is talking to Ophis about it over on the MST thread.
All the best
Ian
Quote from: broadsword_uk on Jun 12, 05:18 PM 2011
Hi Sir William.
Thanks for your input. What we have been playing with is not to start betting after 37 spins but to WAIT until 2 of the dozens have been hit by at least one number and then only start betting on the last remaining dozen and STOP after just one number has been hit. In practice the first bet is at around 40 to 50 spins. I haven't been spending much time on this as I might have because I have been focussing on Divide and Conquer.
If you have any stats on how long it takes 1 number to be hit on a dozen it would be interesting. MST has been throwing up some interesting results but it doesn't stop at a winner yet as it plays on until half or two thirds have been hit. I think Ginneli is talking to Ophis about it over on the MST thread.
All the best
Ian
mmmm so you would want it to stop betting and retrack after X amount of wins? (like 1 or 2)
i will tell you from what I have observed that it ts still better to bet strait away and until there is 4 numbers left to bet.
because 4 numbers and less can sleep for a very long time...
btw: it does not really matter if something have hit in 1 or 2 or 3rd dozen....
dozens are made by humans.... random is not affected by man made borders.
I am wondering how can you expect 3/3 law of roulette on RNGs? Non-sense. RNGs are artificial numbers sets no coming from nature's laws which roulette have to obey. I even don't believe that RNGs know what is Law of Thirds!
Wake up and don't be lazy to test it on live roulette spins.
The 3/3 law of roulette says that in 37 spins 1/3 comes more often then average, 1/3 comes around average and 1/3 sleepers have to yield to the bully.
In the next 37 spins only 1/3 of the previous eg. 12 sleepers comes. Now use a math and always 1/3 will appears. You can see the process on streets, double streets even dozens and columns but with less numbers the 1/3 law will be less transparent and exact.
Hermes
Quote from: Hermes on Jun 12, 05:48 PM 2011
I am wondering how can you expect 3/3 law of roulette on RNGs? Non-sense. RNGs are artificial numbers sets no coming from nature's laws which roulette have to obey.
Well because RNG are suppose to emulate Random... and proper RNG will give you numbers according to law of the third. If not they would be revived as false and not really random.
RNG IS A SLOT MACHINE PERIOD.
RNGs simulate nature not replace. The sum of all parts is not the whole, remember that! Something missing?
Right warrior!
Hermes
yes but even slot machine need to have equal distribution..... if not then honest commission wouldn't approve it as random.
Quote from: Hermes on Jun 12, 06:01 PM 2011
RNGs simulate nature not replace. The count of all the parts is not the whole, remember that! Something missing?
Right warrior!
Hermes
Ok listen. I never said that RNG is good or anything similar.
I do not trust RNG.
BUT real RNG SHOULD follow law of the third to be valid.
Ophis, where did you see an honest casino, please give me the address!
Slot machines slaught the retarded.
Hermes
Ophis is correct. There's a lot of talk about RNG vs Actuals, but the truth is a fair RNG will produce the same distributions of any group of numbers that a wheel will.
I challenge anyone to identify a stream of RNG generated numbers; if there were two sets of numbers posted, one from an RNG and one actuals, how many would be able to pick out the RNG? my guess is it would be 50:50.
Any takers? 8)
Quote from: Hermes on Jun 12, 06:05 PM 2011
Ophis, where did you see an honest casino, please give me the address!
Slot machines slaught the retarded.
Hermes
I didint say iv seen honest casino. I never was bothered to examine if casino is honest.
and slot machines are another form of lottery.
Saying that RNG are bad is like saying ALL Germans are bad because Nazism were bad.....
tbh casinos don't even have to bother about cheating in o RNGs because most of people are losing anyway.... that's enough to make big money.
Thats why roulette is still here from 300+ years. And appearance of RNGs didint change any ods of winning for players.
Hi Ophis,
Yes no argument with that although trying to play progressions on 3 dozens at the same time with a progressive stake can put the bankroll under more stress than it needs.
Just betting on 4 unhit numbers for example in the last dozen after we have had more like 50 spins seems to enable us a hit before the bets get too high... well so far anyway.
Ian :-)
Quote from: broadsword_uk on Jun 12, 08:36 PM 2011
Hi Ophis,
Yes no argument with that although trying to play progressions on 3 dozens at the same time with a progressive stake can put the bankroll under more stress than it needs.
Just betting on 4 unhit numbers for example in the last dozen after we have had more like 50 spins seems to enable us a hit before the bets get too high... well so far anyway.
Ian :-)
Well try t play it flat bet. ;)
and more numbers you bet more chance You have to hit.
i really have done some test on that system because I do like it. I like how using man made borders we make law of the third work better for us. but testing it... it was losing because it was trying to bet on 3 numbers that left for many spins 100+... and this was the reason of drawdowns.
that's why iv made a option to limit minimum amount of numbers to bet on.
anyway if you like progression so much setup Min profit per dozen on 1 unit this way progression will rise slowly. also setup max units to bet on something that suits you. like 10 units... per number.
Anyway this system beats pattern breaker and all that similar funny bets on its head.
I would like to see some other systems to be based on this system because this really have the reason to be winning.
Quote from: Hermes on Jun 12, 06:01 PM 2011
RNGs simulate nature not replace. The sum of all parts is not the whole, remember that! Something missing?
Right warrior!
Hermes
i agree
Quote from: Hermes on Jun 12, 06:01 PM 2011
The sum of all parts is not the whole, remember that!
that doesn't make sense. "Whole" of what? Sum is not whole. Sum is the operation of combining a sequence of numbers. Whole can refer to Holism, - the idea that all the properties of a given system cannot be determined or explained by the sum of its component parts alone.
Anything that have happen on live wheel can happen on RNG and other way around. You can't prove something that can't be dis proven.
You can predict where the ball will land on real wheel - so its not that random.... you can't do that on RNG.
Prove that RNG is fake... or that live wheel is not fake.... live wheel is more fake than RNG because on live wheel you have factors like place of the ball, its speed,direction of movement and so on. so Real wheel is less random than RNG.
You can calculate where the ball will land on live wheel. You cant do that on RNG.
My wife recorded a whole score card (448 numbers) from RNG and when we checked there were 8 numbers that had not shown. So she did it another day and this time there were 6 numbers that hadnt come out, but different to the numbers of the previous day.
Pedro
Quote from: ophis on Jun 12, 10:25 PM 2011
You can predict where the ball will land on real wheel - so its not that random.... you can't do that on RNG.
Prove that RNG is fake... or that live wheel is not fake.... live wheel is more fake than RNG because on live wheel you have factors like place of the ball, its speed,direction of movement and so on. so Real wheel is less random than RNG.
You can calculate where the ball will land on live wheel. You can't do that on RNG.
Ophis I think there are few things we should all know about "gambling RNG-s", not real RNGs...
There are two principal methods used to generate random numbers. One measures some physical phenomenon that is expected to be random and then compensates for possible biases in the measurement process. The other uses computational algorithms that produce long sequences of apparently random results, which are in fact completely determined by a shorter initial value, known as a seed or key. The latter type are often called pseudorandom number generators.
A "random number generator" based solely on deterministic computation cannot be regarded as a "true" random number generator, since its output is inherently predictable. How to distinguish a "true" random number from the output of a pseudo-random number generator is a very difficult problem. However, carefully chosen pseudo-random number generators can be used instead of true random numbers in many applications. Rigorous statistical analysis of the output is often needed to have confidence in the algorithm.
And why don't you do calcualtions in casino where the ball will land if that is possible? Wait, of course it is possible! But only in theory, or yes, but unbelivebly hard in practice for one man to do that... And if I can say that theoretically you could also predict RNG-s "movement" if you could see from what is he taking independent variables, just as wheel...... That would be some sort of VB for RNG-s :LoL: :LoL: But in gambling RNG-s, things are as I wrote above...
And by the way I think your idea in my system to stop when whe have 3-4 unhit numbers is maybe safest possible solution that can exist for this system if we playing all 3 dozens.
Regards
Drazen
It would take many computers working for long time to try to decode the algorithm from a "pseudo RNG"
i agree with you drazen when you say its better to stop at 3-4 unhits. It is logical and follows the "law" you based this great system on.
1/3 of the sleepers will not hit.
Quote from: ophis on Jun 12, 09:41 PM 2011
Anyway this system beats pattern breaker and all that similar funny bets on its head.
I would like to see some other systems to be based on this system because this really have the reason to be winning.
i will work on this one asap.
Cheers,
AL
Quote from: albertojonas on Jun 13, 03:54 AM 2011
It would take many computers working for long time to try to decode the algorithm from a "pseudo RNG"
That really doesn't matter to me. If they need 1000 years, I don't care. We all know it is so. I will repeat, I don't have much experience playing on RNG, I played once Black Jack on Unibet and things I have seen there can only be seen in cartoon. (and i am not the only one who said that, and by that i mean for people who know at least something more about that game, not just gamblers who lost their money) For me more than enough. And I don't belive every RNG is the same, but no one can tell it can be even close thing as playing live. At that time I wonder why RNG didn't need long time to decode my BANK? And every dealer I played in live wasn't too much close to that.... But probably luck... :LoL: And why would things on roulette be different?
Regards
Drazen
i do not play rngs too
same as slots.
tou are 100% wright.
:thumbsup:
I also dont play RNG. But im tired of people QQing about it all the time....
Live wheels also are not True Random. Because of the human factor. Thats why you can observe so called dealer signature.
Hi,i tested one system in live wheel based on this thread but not for many spins. First i tracked
37 spins and i record how many times 1st,2nd and 3rd dozen appeared. then i started to bet on the dozen with less appearences with progression for one dozen 1,1,2 etc. i continued to track and betting continuously on dozen with the less appearences on the last 37 spins and the results were good but needs more testing. can anyone test it more?
Hey guys,
ok so not sure if everyone is aware, but mst tracker is having a few issues tracking this system correctly and i am currently in comms with both draz and ophis on helping getting it up and running ASAP as this system is by far the best i've seen and at the risk of critisim the holy grail if used correctly.
So anyways, in light of the tracker having issue's i've built an excel sheet to take the mind f****** out of tracking this system.
i shall try to explain how to use it as best i can, its very simple but confusing at first glance.
i'll post example excel sheets as we go to help.
ok, so we start by tracking our numbers in the table provided,
(can use numbers,letter whatever is easyer for you)
when we get repeated numbers we also track these as show in example 1 (#18 landed twice)
continue until you have 37 numbers tracked, this is shown under the graph next to "total" with a little green tick.
at this stage you will also see from example 2 that 1st dozen does not qualify as it doesn't met the new rules.
new rule; minimum numbers to bet = 2, maximum numbers to bet = 7 per dozen
ok, so in example 2 you will see that;
Dozen 1 does not qualify
Dozen 2 has 2 numbers to bet
Dozen 3 has 6 numbers to bet
personaly i use 1/2 system not 2/3
so we are looking to hit 1 number in dozen 2, and 3 numbers in dozen 3
ok, so open up example 3 now and try to follow
for the sake of simplicity i will give you some random number spins
(Also "1 on 2" this means bet 1 unit on 2 spots(numbers)
3 on 7 means 3 units on 7 spots etc,etc)
#2 - ok never hit anything so we add and "x" in both our 2 spot progression in our 2nd dozen and in our 6 spot progression in our 3rd dozen slot.
#14 - nothing again add in your "x" on both progressions
#26 - ok great we have hit 1 number in our 3rd dozen, now we restart on this dozen using our new progression for 5 slots, and also your "x" into your 2nd dozen progression.
#19 - great now we hit 1/2 on second dozen and stop betting this dozen. Also Add your miss onto 3rd dozen progression.
#26 - good we hit 26, restart your progression now using the 4th spot progression
#1 - miss - add "x" to your 4 slot progression and continue
#3 - miss - add "x" to your 4 slot progression and continue
#16 - miss - add "x" to your 4 slot progression and continue
# 34 - great now we have hit 1/2 for our 3rd dozen and we can now restart all over again retracking our new 37 numbers.
Hopfully that was clear enough.
the reason you have columns numbered "123" on each progression is because if you had to bet 3 dozens with same amount of bets you would need 3 sepearate progressions for each dozen.
the problem i found before was keeping track of how many bets per spin for different amounts became very hard to track.
with this excel sheet you no longer have to count in your head how many spins you have done and track when you need to raise bets on different columns and different times.
Last thing, you will notice some numbers are red on the progressions.
these are red because they represent when each progression has reached 1000+ units per spin, you could consider it a stop-loss, as i do.
Anyways guys draz was quite pleased with this as i hope you all are, if you have any questions please contact me either via forum or Skype.
Thank You
Thanks Razor, very good :thumbsup:
Regards
Drazen
Hi Guys
I have been tested this system just for a few hundred spins.I have read these comments and I want just share how I play.So I track the first 37 spins and
check all the unhit numbers.
After that instead of choosing 2 of the 3 dozens I check the numbers on the wheel layout. Which numbers are in the righthand side/rhs/ of the wheel and which numbers are on the lefthandside/lhs/ I mean from the zero.
When I tested I have realised that if you have for example 15 unhit numbers after 37 spins you have 7 in the rhs and 8 lhs or 6 in the lhs and 9 rhs.
What I am trying to say is that the unhit numbers is nearly equal every time on both side.
So when I get the unhit numbers I choose one side and after 2-3 hits finish the session and start a new one.
Thanks for reading
J.Bravo
Quote from: J.Bravo on Jul 07, 03:46 AM 2011
Hi Guys
I have been tested this system just for a few hundred spins.I have read these comments and I want just share how I play.So I track the first 37 spins and
check all the unhit numbers.
After that instead of choosing 2 of the 3 dozens I check the numbers on the wheel layout. Which numbers are in the righthand side/rhs/ of the wheel and which numbers are on the lefthandside/lhs/ I mean from the zero.
When I tested I have realised that if you have for example 15 unhit numbers after 37 spins you have 7 in the rhs and 8 lhs or 6 in the lhs and 9 rhs.
What I am trying to say is that the unhit numbers is nearly equal every time on both side.
So when I get the unhit numbers I choose one side and after 2-3 hits finish the session and start a new one.
Thanks for reading
J.Bravo
Thank you J. Bravo. This is very good observation, one of possibilities how to play observing just wheel. I was saying this is possible and i meant exactly on this. This law is magical :thumbsup: Keep up, good work!
Reagrds
Thanks Drazen
Actually I like your system.I prefer the inside bet systems and this one is works quiet good for me because I always have 2 or 3 hits within the 37 spins and the first hit is coming at an early stage./within 10 spins/.So I keep testing more.
Thanks
J.Bravo
Thanks i am glad. Keep testing, you ll see some more intersting things to observe, especilay from wheel observations. But i am gonna give my little observation and one thing i like to do, but only in this special situation. You can report me that also from your tests. It is about when we have 7 sleepers in one dozen. Latest spin until our first hit should be 5th spin for that dozen. So when i have 7 sleepers if i dont have hit on first spin, i like "hammering" that dozen by adding 1 unit on every next spin without hit. When i got my first like that, then i stop and continue with standard progression. But only when we have 7 sleepers, not 6 or less. 7 is our max betting per dozen, if you maybe have 8 or 9 then you dont bet that dozen. And please let me know how next tests passed.
Regards
Drazen
Hi Drazen
I am going to test your system with your observation and I will let you know the results as well.It looks interesting.
I think we would get more chance to an early hit if you check the numbers back after the 37th spins and check the dozen where these 7 sleepers are and check when was the last hit of that dozen.
for example if you have 7 sleepers dozen1 and dozen1 has not been hit 5 or 6 spins back.
What you think?
Regards
Well of course, but also not necessarily. When i have 7 sleepers, in 99% of tests i had first hit until 5th spin. No matter what situation was in dozens before :)
Regards
Drazen
That's very impressive :)
I am going to test it and I will let you know.
Good Job Drazen
Regards
I've been testing this for one week and about 5 or 6 thousand spins. Live roulette, not RNG.
At first it was doing well, but in my last session none of 7 sleepers from the third dozen haven't showed up for initial 37 spins (tracking numbers), then for another 28 spins. That would kill the bank of around 10.000 units unless played stop-take loss-retrack. About 10-15 similar cases occured during this testing.
This system is a potential winner, BUT! prepare to risk and play with very, very large bank (15 - 20 thousand units) without stop/loss, or don't bother to play at all - too many stops/retrack/taking losses can NOT compensate time spent on playing, because just one stop/loss will kill about 12 sessions with around 500-600 spins (roughly speaking). During next recovering 600 spins one or more of stop-loss events will be almost certain, thus making your efforts pointless
Anyone still playing this system?
I played for a while with ups and downs.
I am just about breaking even.
How do you play it?
To play less then 4 numbers in a dozen feels to risky for me i have had biggest losning sessions when i have played 3 numbers. Longest streak with out hit 57 numbers in live wheel.
Maybe one could play all sleepers with progression like 10-15 numbers until first hit.
I have played a different system before based on pretty much the same thing and the longest streek of no sleeper hitting i have seen is 14 spin.
But this dozen system is so much easier to use it would be great to hear news how you are doing.
-Conny-
Holy Grail seekers, look here.
Guys, did anyone programmed this system for roulette xtreme 2.0?
Hey Drazen,
Another member sent me a link to your post because I am also interested in the law of the third. At the end of the day, there are unique numbers, duplicate numbers and un-hit numbers. What I have been focusing on are the duplicate numbers. Specifically when the first duplicate happens. I like studying this because it doesn't take hundreds of spins for the statistics to work out to 100%. For example, the first repeat happens 97-98% of the time within 15 spins, according to my tests.
First Repeat: Percent
2: 2.63%
3: 5.12%
4: 7.27%
5: 8.94%
6: 10.0%
7: 10.43%
8: 10.24%
9: 9.56%
10: 8.48%
11: 7.19%
12: 5.81%
13: 4.52%
14: 3.36%
15: 2.37%
16: 1.6%
17: 1.04%
18: 0.64%
19: 0.37%
20: 0.21%
21: 0.11%
22: 0.05%
23: 0.02%
24: 0.01%
25: 0.01%
26: 0.0%
27: 0.0%
28: 0.0%
29: 0.0%
At first, I thought it would be simple enough to bet every unique number until a repeat happened, but gets very expensive. But, betting just be a portion such as unique 6,7,8 numbers, you end up missing out on the wins.
Your idea to bet on the outside, might just solve this dilemma. Maybe start making outside bets using a progression once 5 unique numbers hit, but then change it to the inside numbers after it gets closer to 15 unique numbers in order to keep the overall costs down.
Have you explored the set of unique number until a repeat using outside bets before?