What is hit and run? To me hit and run is the use of stop/loss after a certain point or walking out when in profit at a certain point.
Non-hit and run is the continuation of play irrelevant of consequence and stoping after a time(d) period rather than a point of profit or loss.
Is this what you think both should be?
Hit n Run = reach goal and worry over (or hit bad streak and convert to NON Hit n Run mode and allow panic to set in)
QuoteNon-hit and run is the continuation of play irrelevant of consequence and stoping after a time(d) period rather than a point of profit or loss
Continuation = just carry on, until you make as much as you wanted for the hour/day absorbing the ups and downs as you go, I doubt many would actually stay 24 hours a day but my opinion is this is what we/they mean. Unless of course a method was found and you could leave the bot running while out or on holiday, bit daft though.
Hit and run is resetting your system or strategy back to step 1 of your game plan whenever it tickles your fancy.
So who thinks that using bots which run continuously or simulations over millions of spins is pointless because "no-one plays that way"?
What about blackjack players who count cards and wait for the right conditions in the deck? is that hit & run?
Quote from: Skakus on Sep 29, 05:55 PM 2011
Hit and run is resetting your system or strategy back to step 1 of your game plan whenever it tickles your fancy.
But if you only reset when it tickles your fancy, isn't that the same as resetting randomly? how can that give you an advantage?
Quote from: Bayes on Sep 30, 03:05 AM 2011
So who thinks that using bots which run continuously or simulations over millions of spins is pointless because "no-one plays that way"?
Not me.
I think bots are a fantastic tool to test systems with, and possibly to actually bet with.
Continuous play is a solid benchmark, however bots that play in real time have their glitches and problems so expecting real time continuous streams of numbers into the millions is totally unrealistic.
People using online bots are forced by default to accept a hit & run format. All it takes is one disconnect from your casino's server and you are playing hit and run whether you like it or not.
For this and other reasons I believe people should be engineering systems that do not rely on continuous streams of numbers because basically there is no such thing.
Think of it as hit & run with completely random exit and entry points, or continuous play with completely random interuptions. You see, for 999.99% of strategies it makes no difference, really.
Quote from: Bayes on Sep 30, 03:08 AM 2011
But if you only reset when it tickles your fancy, isn't that the same as resetting randomly? how can that give you an advantage?
My post was a devil's advocate, definition type statement attempting to encompass all the variable reasonings for hit & run.
No advantage expected, but no disadvantage should result either. So see my previous post. :)
Mmmm...
So when does profit or stop/loss point become hit and run?
Is hit and run when you play a finite amount of mini games and then either leave in profit or exit at a loss before that?
And is the opposite when you play as many games as possible and exit when you hit a defined profit point/ stop-loss point/ or when you're tired, for example?
Hey Bayes,
You wanted a system to test re: h/r and I gave you one. I have come to the conclusion that hit and run/ - stop/loss amounts to exactly the same thing. I can't view it as anything else.
On this basis I think the system I gave you is valid regarding. I was wondering how the testing is going?
Woods
Hello
Its a perfect crime or isnt it? :D
Quote from: Robeenhuut on Oct 21, 10:01 AM 2011
Hello
Its a perfect crime or isnt it? :D
Sorry Rob, not sure what ya mean?
Woods
Quote from: woods101 on Oct 21, 10:32 AM 2011
Sorry Rob, not sure what ya mean?
Woods
Just a joke Woods here. Never mind me. If you could get away with that it would be a perfect crime :D
Some analogy with roulette and casino maybe :)
Regards
Thats how I see it
You numpties that sit there betting every spin of the game will never win
Hit an run is stopping at your profit point an leaving at your stop loss point exactly.
You mitigate the losses and capitalise on the wins
Reset when it tickles your fancy, maybe only when the conditions become unfavourable to your bet ( which happens to all bet )
Bet a number for 37, start with 0. If after 37 spins your bankroll decreased, bet another number (1,2,...), otherwise continue betting the actual number.
Is this hit and run?
For me, hit and run means having a set goal (for example+3)and once that goal is met you leave.It also means if I loose a certain amount of units(say -6) I also leave. :thumbsup:
@Robeenhut
Ahh got ya. Yep it would be lovely if we we're all Robeenhoods and could reverse the crime all the time- unfortunately we've got to take whatever we can get and suffer the man and his 2.7%.
@ Strato
My sentiments entirely. There has been a lot of debate (read: slagging off!) of h/r as a belief but as has been discussed with others recently - what is h/r?
Personally I figure that stop/loss/profit point is h/r as I can't see it being anything else.
If this becomes the accepted definition then maybe we can analyse it as a practice and conclude as to whether it provides benefit (i.e. finally move on from this whole debate!). I think when we refer to loss/stop or profit/stop points as oppossed to the phrase 'hit and run' we would get an entirely different response from a lot of members here.
If this is what we come to believe as h/r then there are plenty of members who practice hit and run yet regard it as something else.
Example:
If you lose half your BR in a session and decide your luck is down that day and leave purely based on this or... you make a profit, feel good - "that'll do for today" then yep this is h/r ..BUT......if you lose and hit your loss limit point or...equally if you hit your profit point for the day and walk out...this is also h/r, but a much more defined version with specific parameters. It is the latter that I would like to propose as an accepted definition of h/r simply because most people here practice methods of some sort that subscribe to some form or set of rules rather than whimsical or instinctive play.
What do we think and how does this sound?
@ Mr. Ore
Without defined parameters based on financial achievements or loss, based on either patterns, sequence, applied methods or even mood or instinct, then I have to conclude- No.
Woods
P.s.
@ Mr. Ore (but I know you know that!)
Quote from: woods101 on Oct 21, 08:51 AM 2011
Hey Bayes,
You wanted a system to test re: h/r and I gave you one. I have come to the conclusion that hit and run/ - stop/loss amounts to exactly the same thing. I can't view it as anything else.
On this basis I think the system I gave you is valid regarding. I was wondering how the testing is going?
Woods
Been a bit busy lately, but gonna do it this weekend. :thumbsup:
@ Bayes. Nice one.
I've got my jug of custard ready. It distracts my mouth from the flavour of humble pie!
W
Imagine you had gotten yourself into a fight situation with a huge guy that you knew
you would have no earthly chance of beating in a long drawn out brawl...
Its a bit like that, .. get the first punch in and run like hell.....
But the analogy ends there with roulette because, where as we would try and avoid the guy in future, we keep coming back to the table to take further pops.
Well I use sort off hit and run when playing with MST.
When I see some of the systems are "on the ball" then I am playing with them until I get desired profit or until they will start to act suspicious... since you never know when you will hit this losing streak.
You may consider it as playing multiple systems with hit and run at the same time.... but either way... I was unable to automate/code this in manner in which this method would win....
Strangely I am building my bankroll steady forward, but they are days when none of the coded systems "feel" stable enough to risk.
So even if Hit and Run is complete CR** then i still believe they are some people that can win playing like that (with luck).
.... I just want to know how to code it :thumbsup:
@ Rolf,
Punch him more times than he punches you, and then run away, and then repeat the next day, and in theory, over time he will hurt more. That's if your punching hard enough!
@ Ophis
I think your last post clarifies what is being put forward here. All systems lose if played continously. How can you win? you avoid the periods of loss. If you know your systems well then you will know (should know) how long those losing periods may last, but you will also know that they start with the first losing game.
A good system should be one that wins more than it loses. I don't know of a system though that won't give away all it's profits when it hits a period of losses. If you can take the first loss and walk away then you will avoid extreme damage maybe.
As you say some people may be luckily abstaining for the right amount of time, depending on the system they're using, or just doing the right thing based on instinct as much as anything else.
Woods
You are right woods... all systems that I have ever coded are loosing playing continuously.
That is the nature of randomness.
But also all systems are WINNING when specific set of numbers is given to them.
Thats why I have made MST... to track all VALUABLE systems at the same time.
Like I said some time ago.... EVERY system is winning at some point. And the purpose of MST is to be able to notice which one of them is winning at those particular set of numbers that your casino is giving to you.
MST is not perfect yet. There is only 13 systems for now... most of the times at least one of the included systems is wining... the system that we suppose to use at that specific time.
But Im sure that one day, with help of the community there will be enough system to deal with ANY set of numbers.
The goal is to have at least one system winning....any system winning... at ANY set of numbers.
This way by using our common sense we can easily notice with help of ZSCORE calculations and CHART analyst which system is most likely to bring us some profit.
MST has been gone... But now it will be back. More powerful than ever.
I'm using a "system" based on EC patterns (64 × 3 ECs = 192 in total). For each pattern the software keeps track of a number of events such as double and triple wins, % of wins in the last X spins etc. Like Ophis, I'm using it in a hit & run kind of way, jumping from pattern to pattern based on what the events are doing. The results are consistent, but it's very hard to come up with a reliable set of triggers which can be coded. I'm not going to give up the search, but in the meantime, intuition, or whatever you want to call it, seems to be serving well.
Nice to hear that MST isn't dead, the concept behind it is key to consistent profits, IMO. :thumbsup:
@ Ophis and Bayes
Keep fighting the good fight!
W