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Roulette-focused => Main Roulette Board => Topic started by: Amazin on Apr 01, 03:10 PM 2012

Title: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: Amazin on Apr 01, 03:10 PM 2012
Just lost all my money on BetVoyager. Before, my opinion was that all rng cheats then some members on here seem to think it deosn't because of the risk of losing their license. I believed in that because it make sense, why would any casino want to do that? Is it bit stupid?

I don't think RNG cheats by purposely change the outcome so that you lose. However, I suspect that they have a some sort of program inside that stores your bet patterns and produce numbers that go against it. I was playing a system similar to pattern 4. I was tracking 2 of the ECs and betting against it. I have 100s of spins recorded and not even once a pattern repeated itself 3 times. Here is what happened today:

LHH      EEO
LLH      EOE
HHH     EOO
LHL      EOO
LLL       EOO
LHL      EOO (At this point, I almost got busted)
LHL      EEE
HLL      EEE
HLL      EEE

If you look at the patterns carefully, it started to repeat itself over and over again. THAT IS JUST BS imo. I believe it started doing it because it started to recognise my betting patterns. Even if you were playing MV5, you would've lost on the EEEEEs.

If BV is a reputable casino and its rng can do this, I can't even imagine what other rngs can do. Any thoughts?

Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: Drazen on Apr 01, 03:52 PM 2012
Unbelivable how naive people are... not to say silly...


I think this post should be sticked to face to everyone who says RNG doesn't cheat...


Why?


Find member name boatran, look at his profile/avatar picture. Beautifull grap, you see?
Now ask him to tell you the method which produces such graph, i am sure he won't mind or charge telling you LoL.
What is the secret of that graph that every player dreams of? NO zero my friend. But we have no zero roulette, don't we. F*king darn BV no zero. So bellowed from RNG players  :love:  Fairest of them all. Its fairnes doesn't know the limits... You will be cheated by pope before BV no zero, i assure you.


Now ask yourself, is that guy so silly, not to take the method on BV no zero an won millions? ???


I can give you as many methods as you want to beat no zero roulette, all you have to do find roulette without zero. But we have such roulette!!!!!!! We can become millionares for a night.


Have you ever thought about that my friend? If not, i ll tell you that is our opportunitie. Easy as getting million dollars as in cash as a gift  8)


Regards


Drazen





Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: superman on Apr 01, 04:48 PM 2012
Matrix methods do not work, unless your names JL of course, on RNG or live wheels, that's your main problem, BV do not bother to track what you play as they produce your next set of numbers in advance.

QuoteI suspect that they have a some sort of program inside that stores your bet patterns and produce numbers that go against it

They don't need to.

I don't really like showing account info but in this instance I think it would be good to show doubters it is possible to make a profit, the attached is my latest effort, you'll have to take my word for the risk involved, I am betting on 1 inside number 95% of the time, sometimes there may be 2 or 3, I have not had 4 numbers running at the same time yet, i'm using a full recovery on a win progression, you can work it out yourself, the max progression I have hit was while 3 numbers were running, each number had 18 units on them which gave a max drawdown of 1221 units, 12 euros at it's peak.

This is real money in a real account, Bayes can vouch for me, he knows what I am currently trying, from the screenshot you can see the attacks take place at different times and for different durations, there's a lot of tracking go on, the bets placed are 1cent chips, one of the main reasons for playing at different times and durations is to check if the results make any major fluctuations, they haven't so far.

I run any method through a test bot against 10,000 live real money spins that I gathered so I KNOW they are correct results, I also run the same against 4,000 live wheel results, I have said this many times before, the results are not any different against live or RNG that I have seen, and a few posts on this forum recently have shown scary events on LIVE wheels that nobody has seens so far on any RNG, and I've been doing this for years. If it passes the sniff test (test bot run of 10,000 spins) then it goes live first against play/demo mode then for real as per screenshot.

Why havent they picked up my betting pattern, its fairly easy to see for them.

Will it go t1ts up? probably at some point but I wont know until it does, if it does, it gets filed as an almost, I have plenty of almosts as do most of us.
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: Proofreaders2000 on Apr 01, 05:26 PM 2012
Do understand the danger of playing outside bets on RNG Real Money.  I believe covering some numbers turns the wins off (and on, depending on the numbers.)  The challenge is to find which numbers do what.

"Who's beating RNG atm?  Ulysses of VLS that's who.  "...earlier today I won â,¬2000 from a small â,¬130 deposit...."

link:://vlsroulette.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=06848ee61e33357fd132635205dc82bb&topic=19995.15 (link:://vlsroulette.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=06848ee61e33357fd132635205dc82bb&topic=19995.15)
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: vile on Apr 01, 05:30 PM 2012
Quote from: Amazin on Apr 01, 03:10 PM 2012
Just lost all my money on BetVoyager. Before, my opinion was that all rng cheats then some members on here seem to think it deosn't because of the risk of losing their license. I believed in that because it make sense, why would any casino want to do that? Is it bit silly?

I don't think RNG cheats by purposely change the outcome so that you lose. However, I suspect that they have a some sort of program inside that stores your bet patterns and produce numbers that go against it. I was playing a system similar to pattern 4. I was tracking 2 of the ECs and betting against it. I have 100s of spins recorded and not even once a pattern repeated itself 3 times. Here is what happened today:

LHH      EEO
LLH      EOE
HHH     EOO
LHL      EOO
LLL       EOO
LHL      EOO (At this point, I almost got busted)
LHL      EEE
HLL      EEE
HLL      EEE

If you look at the patterns carefully, it started to repeat itself over and over again. THAT IS JUST BS in my opinion. I believe it started doing it because it started to recognise my betting patterns. Even if you were playing MV5, you would've lost on the EEEEEs.

If BV is a reputable casino and its rng can do this, I can't even imagine what other rngs can do. Any thoughts?

--Don't believe any members that promote on line betting.
They get paid for that.
Are you aware that 70%  on line casinos are under management of Russian
mafia,ever since gambling was prohibited few years back overthere.
Those casinos are all rigged and you just CAN NOT WIN,never.
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: amk on Apr 01, 05:33 PM 2012
A friend once lost at BV. After checking the random control feature it was discovered that the data did not correspond.........
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: superman on Apr 01, 05:37 PM 2012
Quote--Don't believe any members that promote on line betting.
They get paid for that.

Dude, many members here know me personally, I am not affiliated in anyway to any casino, there are many other members here who play online and have no grievence with the RNG games, but as soon as someone loses all hell breakes loose, as a recent addition to this forum you have made some vile comments to other members, maybe you should read some more threads so you can see whos who in the zoo.

If you prefer live wheels/watching paint dry/watching the grass grow, good for you, some of us prefer the speed of the RNG that's our preference, play where you want to play, we do.
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: superman on Apr 01, 05:41 PM 2012
QuoteA friend once lost at BV. After checking the random control feature it was discovered that the data did not correspond.........

This I find very hard to believe, a while ago, I ran a bot to grab the sha hash and check it as I wanted to see if it ever f4rted, it didn't, wait for it, someone going to think I work for BV, well I kin don't.
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: amk on Apr 01, 05:56 PM 2012
Hey Superman!! How have you been.

Just saying that a friend told me this happened, it might not have but would be strange.

Honestly I like BV, good customer service and platform.

Just as a question, when your bot was running were you placing money bets?
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: superman on Apr 01, 06:00 PM 2012
QuoteJust as a question, when your bot was running were you placing money bets?

Hi mate, fine as can be thanks, yes as I said in the post, real money, real account bets placed, if I didn't place any bets the bank history screenshot wouldn't show any profit/loss, although its all profit as you can clearly see.
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: vile on Apr 01, 06:00 PM 2012
I know exactly who is who in the zoo
as am much longer in this jungle then
you are.As said earlier anybody that promotes
rng and online casino must have a reason to do
so.Alibaba used to show us daily winnings with
blessings of casino management,remember????
And when they stoped payments the true story
come out.
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: vladir on Apr 01, 06:42 PM 2012
Amazin, if that is tha case, just pick 2 or 3 GOOD systems and randomly alternate between them. Then the so called "program" they may have, wont be able to know when you change system.

Problem is, you will much probably still loose, due to variation.  Casinos don't really need to cheat, (altough some do cheat).
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: jarabo002 on Apr 01, 08:21 PM 2012
drazen_cro (link:://rouletteforum.cc/index.php?action=profile;u=1153), are you serious?

I also miss continuously in BV NZ, and I am unable to find a winning method. :-[

Maybe one of the secrets its a big big bankroll.
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: Robeenhuut on Apr 01, 09:27 PM 2012
Quote from: superman on Apr 01, 04:48 PM 2012
Matrix methods do not work, unless your names JL of course, on RNG or live wheels, that's your main problem, BV do not bother to track what you play as they produce your next set of numbers in advance.
 
They don't need to.

I don't really like showing account info but in this instance I think it would be good to show doubters it is possible to make a profit, the attached is my latest effort, you'll have to take my word for the risk involved, I am betting on 1 inside number 95% of the time, sometimes there may be 2 or 3, I have not had 4 numbers running at the same time yet, i'm using a full recovery on a win progression, you can work it out yourself, the max progression I have hit was while 3 numbers were running, each number had 18 units on them which gave a max drawdown of 1221 units, 12 euros at it's peak.

This is real money in a real account, Bayes can vouch for me, he knows what I am currently trying, from the screenshot you can see the attacks take place at different times and for different durations, there's a lot of tracking go on, the bets placed are 1cent chips, one of the main reasons for playing at different times and durations is to check if the results make any major fluctuations, they haven't so far.

I run any method through a test bot against 10,000 live real money spins that I gathered so I KNOW they are correct results, I also run the same against 4,000 live wheel results, I have said this many times before, the results are not any different against live or RNG that I have seen, and a few posts on this forum recently have shown scary events on LIVE wheels that nobody has seens so far on any RNG, and I've been doing this for years. If it passes the sniff test (test bot run of 10,000 spins) then it goes live first against play/demo mode then for real as per screenshot.

Why haven't they picked up my betting pattern, its fairly easy to see for them.

Will it go t1ts up? probably at some point but I won't know until it does, if it does, it gets filed as an almost, I have plenty of almosts as do most of us.

Do you still have to bet every spin on BV? I know you can place easily bets cancelling each other and just hit repeat button?  And Amazin...  What happened to you its not unusual. E repeating itself 9 times or any pattern repeating 2 times on EC's.

I just dont comment on ongoing debate about a fairness of RNG. I dont posses enough knowledge about programming issues. I just stay away from RNG for other reasons.

Regards
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: ADulay on Apr 01, 10:24 PM 2012
Quote from: vile on Apr 01, 05:30 PM 2012
--Don't believe any members that promote on line betting.
They get paid for that.

That is not a true statement.

There are many of us here who are merely players of the online game (live in my case) and other than collecting our winnings, we are definitely NOT on anybody's payroll!!

AD
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: GARNabby on Apr 01, 10:56 PM 2012
Quote from: ADulay on Apr 01, 10:24 PM 2012"... and other than collecting our winnings."
Quote from: ADulay on Apr 01, 10:24 PM 2012
That is not a true statement.

Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: Drazen on Apr 02, 01:39 AM 2012
Quote from: jarabo002 on Apr 01, 08:21 PM 2012
drazen_cro (link:://rouletteforum.cc/index.php?action=profile;u=1153), are you serious?

I also miss continuously in BV NZ, and I am unable to find a winning method. :-[

Maybe one of the secrets its a big big bankroll.


Good bankrool yes, but not playing long suicidal progressions.


There is no winning method on RNG!


Regard


Drazen

Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: jarabo002 on Apr 02, 01:44 AM 2012
Ok, I see.

Thanks

I think tonight, after two years of study of roulette, with several hours a day of dedication, after a year playing in NZ BV, I just found something that looks promising. :smile:
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: Drazen on Apr 02, 02:15 AM 2012
Hm.. but no one of you advocates of RNG didnt even thought of commenting my first post in this thread... how strange  :twisted:


You dont have to be smartass to figure something out.


1. There are methods that would beat this game without 0, very easy right? You know that?


2. We do have such roullette. Only  one in the world. BV NZ :girl_to: 


3. There aslo, we have highest table limits for this game on Earth i think, what our victory makes even "easyer"... But even if we dont, doesnt matter at all because of state nr 1.


4. Because of the above stated, we could play there without losing any session ever.  >:D


5. It is good that they obviously have bigger pocket than all Arabs together, when they can pay off to everyone without problems, even with such conditions as above stated. Good for players there.


6. Did anyone heard someone was banned from RNG because they won too much?  :lol:


7. Maybe owners of BV NZ are not even aware what absence of 0 means for them and beating this game? Have you ever thought about that?  :-X  What naives..


8. Go and show them


>:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D


Regards


Drazen






















Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: superman on Apr 02, 02:19 AM 2012
QuoteDo you still have to bet every spin on BV? I know you can place easily bets cancelling each other and just hit repeat button?

Yes, no free spins allowed so you just play the cancel out bets, low, 3rd dozen and line
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: Bayes on Apr 02, 02:40 AM 2012
Sorry to hear about your loss, Amazin. You can choose to believe that you were cheated, but this is would be a mistake. Go ahead and play that same method on a real wheel, it will take much much longer in terms of time before you lose again, but lose you will.

To make a fair comparison you need to count the NUMBER of placed bets in both cases.

And you didn't say what kind of MM you were using - let me guess - a martingale?

If you really think BV were cheating, try the following: learn a few systems or just make some up, then randomly choose a different system to play for 10 spins, then choose another and play it for 10 spins. Rinse and repeat.

There is a very remote possibility that BV COULD be monitoring your play and throwing up losing spins (although I personally don't believe they do), but because they generate spins in advance (which you can check), there's no way they can be doing this AFTER you've placed your bets, so basically IF they wanted to do this they would just be guessing. By varying your methods of play randomly, you won't be giving them a chance to figure anything out and anticipate your next bets.

I've said it again and again - you can't expect to plug away with the same system for 100s or 1000a of spins and expect it to keep winning, they are ALL subject to standard deviation. RNG or real wheels doesn't make any difference.

So to play the same simple system endlessly is a double whammy: 1) If the casino really is monitoring your bets and trying to find a pattern, you're making it easy for them. AND, 2) if you play this way you will run into a sequence from hell sooner or later, so you will lose whether or not the casino is cheating. At the moment you seem to be convinced that only 1) is the case. If you're concerned about playing RNG, then just don't play them, but don't make the mistake of thinking that's the only reason why you lost - it could save you more time and money.
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: Bayes on Apr 02, 02:50 AM 2012
Quote from: drazen_cro on Apr 02, 02:15 AM 2012
Hm.. but no one of you advocates of RNG didn't even thought of commenting my first post in this thread... how strange  :twisted:


You don't have to be smartass to figure something out.


1. There are methods that would beat this game without 0, very easy right? You know that?


2. We do have such roulette. Only  one in the world. BV NZ :girl_to: 


3. There aslo, we have highest table limits for this game on Earth i think, what our victory makes even "easyer"... But even if we don't, doesn't matter at all because of state nr 1.


4. Because of the above stated, we could play there without losing any session ever.  >:D


5. It is good that they obviously have bigger pocket than all Arabs together, when they can pay off to everyone without problems, even with such conditions as above stated. Good for players there.


6. Did anyone heard someone was banned from RNG because they won too much?  :LoL:


7. Maybe owners of BV NZ are not even aware what absence of 0 means for them and beating this game? Have you ever thought about that?  :-X  What naives..


8. Go and show them


>:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D


Regards


Drazen

Drazen,

The fact that there is no zero doesn't make it easy to win - far from it. In the short term, the thing that kills players isn't so much the house edge (depending on how many numbers you're covering), but variance and dispersion (plus, lack of discipline, using crazy progressions etc).

And, it's a mathematical fact that the player with the largest bankroll will eventually win, even when there is no house advantage. The casino has an infinite bankroll relative to an individual player, so they can easily weather the storms which come along. Swings which will sink the average punter will be nothing more than a ripple for them. Even ignoring all that, you still aren't guaranteed to WIN when the game is completely fair - at best you should mathematically break even over time (no edge for the casino doesn't mean a positive edge for you).
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: Amazin on Apr 02, 03:53 PM 2012
QuoteThere is a very remote possibility that BV COULD be monitoring your play and throwing up losing spins (although I personally don't believe they do), but because they generate spins in advance (which you can check), there's no way they can be doing this AFTER you've placed your bets, so basically IF they wanted to do this they would just be guessing. By varying your methods of play randomly, you won't be giving them a chance to figure anything out and anticipate your next bets.

Hey Bayes, Im glad that you responded. I have read many of your posts and I'm under the impression that you believe RNGs don't cheat because there's no need for it. Part of me also believes in that. In the end of the day, why would any casino want to risk of losing their license because of it? The point I'm trying to make is that rngs cheats in a way that we don't expect them to e.g. change the outcome after you've placed your bets.

I don't think BV was generating patterns after I placed my bets. I think it probably recorded my betting patterns and generating patterns accordingly in advance. I believe there's a way to beat it. I turned £10 into £33 playing 3p stakes so think how many wins I will need to get to that point. I was successful because I was using my 3 muskteers system and was randomly pick a pattern to bet against.

I have a question for you, are you winning constantly on RNGs at the moment?

Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: trebor on Apr 02, 06:20 PM 2012
Look at "Randomness by Quantique" (at the bottom of the BV home page).  If BV are manipulating the numbers it would involve changing the source of the RNG to one that can be controlled.

Most people can be relied on to lose their money with no help from anyone.

If a few of the minority of winners become a problem to a casino surely the simplest solution to them is to close the account. They don't need to give a reason.

Well that's my view on the subject.

Trebor
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: kitestop12 on Apr 02, 08:15 PM 2012
If there is nothing "goofy" about RNG. Then why is there countless, probably hundreds of topics on this site that ask      "how do you beat RNG?"    "The best way to beat RNG?"



Everytime someone starts raising  bets it kicks in...    Two sessions in a row,I will bet on all streets except 1 in less than 100 spins, the same streat hit 9 times in a row and then another session it will do the same. ...   Try it, go waste 50 bucks and see for yourself...     I will be taping a session on a certain website.(an accredited casino). Maybe then you will believe. And if not I'll tape again and lose the exact same way with the exact same street.

On average a particular dozen WILL hit 12 times in a million spins.
Let alone a particular street hit 10.       

Street Bet
No.      Count   No.      
1   time in a row   66591
2   times in a row   5305   
3   times in a row   450   
4   times in a row   38   
5   times in a row   4      
6   times in a row   0      
7   times in a row   0   
8   times in a row   0      
9   times in a row   0



Dozens bet
No.      Count   No.      Count
1   time in a row   147760   
2   times in a row   46938   
3   times in a row   14514   
4   times in a row   4612   
5   times in a row   1512   
6   times in a row   481   
7   times in a row   147   
8   times in a row   42   
9   times in a row   10   
10   times in a row   4
11   times in a row   1   
12   times in a row   1   
13   times in a row   0         
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: Bayes on Apr 03, 06:50 AM 2012
Quote from: Amazin on Apr 02, 03:53 PM 2012
The point I'm trying to make is that rngs cheats in a way that we don't expect them to e.g. change the outcome after you've placed your bets.

I'm not a fan of RNGs in general, and I don't blame people for being wary of them, but as far as I know BV is the only OC which guarantee they can NOT change the outcome AFTER you place your bet, for the simple reason that the spins are generated BEFORE you bet. You can check this for yourself by using the hash function.  See this post: link:://rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=4030.0 (link:://rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=4030.0)

And of course, their zero edge games are attractive. Apart from BV, I don't play RNG at any other OC. In answer to your question, I AM winning consistently playing at BV, I don't win every session, but the overall trend is up and has been for quite a while.

Also, I'm not affiliated with them in any way, shape, or form!, but you did ask.
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: StackBundles on Apr 03, 09:53 AM 2012
i had a bit of money left over so i thought id see if i could make a quick bit of money playing rng i couldnt believe i lost 16 out of 20 flat bets what a joke! reminded me the reason why i stopped playing them
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: StackBundles on Apr 03, 09:58 AM 2012
if rng didnt chuck out crazy results then alot of people would turn it into a cash machine think how much u can make in  an hour if it behaved like a roulette wheel casino would not like that!
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: superman on Apr 03, 10:25 AM 2012
Quotethink how much You can make in  an hour if it behaved like a roulette wheel

RNG is not roulette, don't confuse the 2, RNG is found everywhere, poker, betfair x games, and many other game orientated entities Joel, the fact that they play roulette with rng number generators just creates a good place for anyone attacking the RNG to place bets.

Real wheel roulette means most players attack a "wheel" with numbers in a precise layout, speaking for myself, the number slots I attack are simple

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9..................................36

That's how an RNG is made purely 1 to 36 or 0  to 36 if you want (37) another slot to fight against. As has been said before, RNG isn't for everyone and we keep rehashing it over and over, don't like it? don't play it, is simples.
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: Robeenhuut on Apr 03, 11:14 AM 2012
Quote from: StackBundles on Apr 03, 09:58 AM 2012
if rng didn't chuck out crazy results then a lot of people would turn it into a cash machine think how much You can make in  an hour if it behaved like a roulette wheel casino would not like that!

Actually most people would lose at triple rate of speed of a regular live wheel. RNG makes casino more money just because it operates at greater speed and allows more bets that benefit mostly casino.
It does not have to be rigged.
Title: Re: so who's beating rng at the moment?
Post by: Borislelay on Apr 06, 01:03 PM 2012
I do think BV cheats. I just compare to Smartlive for example. 0 shows up normally, even if bet on. On BV, it's simple, zero shows every 80-90 when you bet on it. I played it for hours. More, the fact that RNG adapts to Hawks methode while playing shows that program has an anti-cheat compensation tactic. If it was not the case, playing the very simple Hawks method would make everyone rich.