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How does the air pressure effect the game ?
. Make the ball time inconsistent
. The ball is not striking the pins properly
. Change or make the degree of tilt to drift
IMG
(link:://i44.tinypic.com/wbaxvo.png)
. Scatter becomes erratic
Witch elements do we speak of ?
. Rain
. Fog
. Hot & Cold Fronts
I read that fog and fronts affects the ball behavior witch affects chattering, strike, scatter.
Here is a chart with both warm and cold fronts witch would affect unpredictability.
IMG
(link:://i39.tinypic.com/210hu9u.png)
This is outside behavior - does that mean i have to measuring both outside and inside pressure?
I also read that some use Air pressure and tide, even gravity using moon charts affect the game.
The question is how you chart this and collect current data to pin point out the optimal conditions contra erratic conditions.
The only solution i can think of is to note outside weather conditions and the current air pressure inside the casino during scouting for wheels and during play.
Then after time pass collect significant data and compare results witch would calibrate good and bad signs.
Here is a simple chart i find using air pressure and tide witch i like due its simplicity and clear figures ...
IMG
(link:://i39.tinypic.com/ehjj9t.png)
(MB = millibar = units you measuring high/low pressure with)
As i understand it - so is density of moisture and humidity the key factors.
You more water present in the air will effect and give more erratic conditions towards the physics parameters we scout for.
Moon charts - Fact or fiction - i am not sure ...
Tides are the rise and fall of sea levels caused by the combined effects of the gravitational forces exerted by the Moon and the Sun and the rotation of the Earth.
There exist charts on-line following the moon phase each day.
IMG
(link:://i39.tinypic.com/t9bkgp.png)
I read the following should be a good sign with out going to much into details.
Witch not guaranteed - but show optimal conditions with ball behavior and scatter consistency.
Full moon:
Usually the good days during a full moon period are, from the day of the full moon(after it had turned) up to 4 days later.
New moon:
Usually the good days during a new moon are from 3-4 days up to the day of the new moon.
What is your opinion about the subject ...
I have studied this at length:
QuoteHow does the air pressure effect the game ?
. Make the ball time inconsistent
Yes
. The ball is not striking the pins properly
No
. Change or make the degree of tilt to drift
No
Most importantly it does NOT change the dominant diamonds at all. I recall someone released an article that suggested it does, but it doesn't. I would love to address this all in detail but it would only help people I don't want to help.
Air pressure is one of many variables that change ball deceleration.
Also effect of moon's gravity is minimal because the mass of the ball is only very small.
Ball timings, and decay patterns/scatter would seem the most obvious behaviors to be affected by things like air pressure.
I would think the inside pressure would be more relevent than outside?
I find moon cycles affect me more than the roulette ball!
Inside and outside air pressure is the same. More than anything, general grit that accumulates on the ball track affects ball deceleration most.
Quote from: Steve on Apr 18, 09:56 PM 2012
Inside and outside air pressure is the same.
The air pressures next to the moving parts would be anyone's guess.
Quote from: Skakus on Apr 18, 09:45 PM 2012I find moon cycles affect me more than the roulette ball!
Apparently, there are more big winners on the full moons.
Yes, surely in a general sense croupier's sticky/oily fingers and hair loss, etc, would have more impact than air pressure, but a well profiled wheel may reveal measurable changes due to air pressures and gravity variants.
What if the croupier had the barbequed ribs for lunch then came back on duty without washing his hands? :D
Quote from: Skakus on Apr 18, 11:13 PM 2012
Yes, surely in a general sense croupier's sticky/oily fingers and hair loss, etc, would have more impact than air pressure, but a well profiled wheel may reveal measurable changes due to air pressures and gravity variants.
Now you speak like some one i know :-)
I find a old post at GG about a RC challange between Mark and Laurance 2002-2004 ...
At the middel of the topic Mark go crazy about air pressure and post everything he know about the subject - pretty cool read ...
link:://:.gamblersglen.com/cgi-bin/teemz/teemz.cgi?board=_master&action=opentopic&forum=Roulette_Archive&topic=1076 (link:://:.gamblersglen.com/cgi-bin/teemz/teemz.cgi?board=_master&action=opentopic&forum=Roulette_Archive&topic=1076)
mark is a sick person. Really it is difficult to fathom how screwed up he is - seriously almost everything he says is sewerage, not a small accomplishment. Like kelly and brett said, he only changed the terms to escape the challenge, knowing the terms were unreasonable, but pretending his "upping" of the stakes are a sign of his confidence. Not everyone is as silly as he hopes.
As for what he said, Mark is an expert and pulling data from other websites and providing streams of data, claiming it supports his claims, when he has no idea what the data means or what he is actually saying.
There are so many holes in what mark says. The Bernoulli effect is negligible in this case. Laurence knows better than him. Take a barometric watch from inside to outside the casino, from warm to cold or vice versa. No pressure change. Mark says doing this supports his claims, but clearly he has never done it himself or he'd know what he says is garbage.
The casino is not airtight. Mark is right about eddie currents, but that causes only momentary changes in air pressure. Real air pressure that affects ball decelerations is not affected by heat itself. But heat can influence humidity, and humidity influences ball deceleration.
you need only see mark's computers for yourself to understand what he is. people don't get much more screwed up than him. you can get two of them for free and see for yourself. just follow the links on roulettecomputers.com in the bottom left popup
on the matter of air pressure, if mark's claims were true:
i. A barometric watch would reflect it, but it doesn't.
ii. When you exited a warm building into the cold outside, you would feel the air pressure difference in your ears (like the pop you feel in an aircraft). But you feel nothing of the sort because there is no significant difference unless a building is fully airtight. No casino is airtight.
Sure pressure difference is needed for air to move outside. Mark needs to understand that movement equalizes the pressure.
Again, mark is an expert at referencing other websites and material to overload people, trying to make a point as if he's smart or something. But he has no idea what he's saying. He's just a manipulative conman trying to promote a scam. Ultimately test his computers and you'll understand him better.
Well assume that is true and i don't swallow everything i read.
But when i read that some watches that measuring air pressure have setting by default - then i made me think about a watch i read about where you had to put in the data your self regarding sea level and latitude and so one - i recon does observations are correct.
Personally i am looking for a watch.
I find that Casio is cheap - but not sure how acc it is and if you can make your own default settings.
Recon that i have to spend 150 to 500 Euro to get a good tool/watch ...
I find one very good topic about the subject do - but can not grasp it all.
It is about absolut air pressure, latitude, sea level among other parameters using a watch...
link:://forums.watchuseek.com/f374/altitude-barometric-pressure-abc-watches-explained-266991.html (link:://forums.watchuseek.com/f374/altitude-barometric-pressure-abc-watches-explained-266991.html)
Cheers
I have sold a lot of barometric watches to players. They are mostly pretty similar in accuracy whether you pay $100 or $500. You don't need to pay more than $150 maximum.
by the way air pressure does not significantly affect scatter. The differences in air pressure only significantly affect the ball while on the ball track. it mostly varies travel distance of ball, and speed of ball when it drops (to lesser degree). The diamond hit are NOT affected by air pressure changes - not by any significant or even measurable amount.
Others may say otherwise. When the ball bounces, what is the relative force between gravity and air friction? The air has almost no effect once the ball leaves the ball track. Those "pro" bias players are wrong.
Also:
. Change or make the degree of tilt to drift
YES NO!
. Ball jumps or scatter with high variance
YES NO!
Whoever told you otherwise is wrong.
So how do you make it practical ...
I just measuring air pressure inside the casino and make notes of current millibars values.
Then i as allways scout for wheels and play.
Does times i notice erratic behavior i compare does air pressure values with does when i have good conditions - to see if the collected data calibrate and show me some significant signs about different situations ...
I read that distance/yardage drift during 1K sample with 5 millibars difference from one player who is into bias - witch i find be intressting data - as it would effect playing a long term wheel with X method ...
Conclusion is that it would be pretty obvios to keep track of daily/hour air pressure.
On the other side - if oil on hands then ball can make so much change then why to bother with change which doesn’t change rapidly and creates much smaller effect.
Cheers
if you track air pressure, use scale of height instead of pressure - its easier to follow. Calibrate to 0m on your reference day. About +/-15m is relevant but it depends on the wheel and ball. Although there are so many more relevant variables than air pressure to the point where realistically, air pressure can only be a rough estimate of changed conditions.
Definitely scatter does not change, unless you are talking large enough differences to significantly change the ball speed when it falls, and the trajectory at which it falls from the ball track. Slower fall means steeper trajectory and generally less scatter. But it would need to be a big air pressure difference to get significant differences. My software can measure actual ball fall speeds, but you need too many spins for it to be practical beyond an evaluation tool. For actual play, this is where barometer comes in handy. But again for it to change scatter and ball travel, you would need a big and unrealistic pressure difference.
QuoteOn the other side - if oil on hands then ball can make so much change then why to bother with change which doesn’t change rapidly and creates much smaller effect.
Exactly. that's why I said "there are so many more relevant variables than air pressure to the point where realistically, air pressure can only be a rough estimate of changed conditions."
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Quote VB Meister tor 19 apr 2012 from other forum ...
Some people dismiss factors like altitude, barometric pressure etc.
Although I believe the moon also has an effect look at spring tide during full moon.
High and low pressure systems rotate ccw in the Southern Hemisphere and cw in the Nothern hemisphere.
Look at water draining from your bath.
Same thing.
Does that have an effect on cw and ccw spins?
I chart barometric pressures when I track and when I play.
Just by doing that, you could be close to 10% better with predictions instead of using static info.
Think of barometric pressure this way.
It is about the resistance in the air.
Same as with altitude.
If you play at sea level, the air density is high.
This causes the ball to travel less distance than at altitude.
Watch a cricket game.
Playing at altitude the ball travels quite a bit further than at sea level.
The above is true for deflector hits but also for scatter.
Especially playing a low fret or scalloped wheel where the ball almost always scatters forward and the forward momentum determines the distance traveled.
Interesting about barometric pressure in casinos and outside casinos.
Seldom I would think there is much difference.
I only take barometric pressure on the day in the casino.
Not outside.
It makes perfect sense though that the pressure shouls be equal inside and outside.
When I get up in the morning and the air is heavey with moisture, I lick my lips.
There is no doubt the heavier the air the better conditions.
Barometric pressure influences ball scatter, the problem is that you need huge(over 10k) data to analize it.
You should divide BP by day(sometimes half day), check for chances in the day.
The division can be about every 5 to 7 milibars.
BP do not vary in or out the casino, altitude is the fact that varies it. Test BP in the casino and in a 10th floor.
Differences results are sligh, the edge that we might add is 1 to 3 points.
Most of the cases it takes to add or susbtrac a couple of numbers to the regular play.
Quote from: Toby on Apr 20, 06:51 AM 2012
Barometric pressure influences ball scatter, the problem is that you need huge(over 10k) data to analize it.
You should divide BP by day(sometimes half day), check for chances in the day.
The division can be about every 5 to 7 milibars.
BP do not vary in or out the casino, altitude is the fact that varies it. Test BP in the casino and in a 10th floor.
Differences results are sligh, the edge that we might add is 1 to 3 points.
Most of the cases it takes to add or susbtrac a couple of numbers to the regular play.
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Nice intput Toby - i also read that you mention that the distance/yardage can drift due 1k and 5 mb.
EGO, take notice that at the beginning of a day BP could be 1010 and by the evening is 1015. It doesn´t happen so often but you must collect data and input it to thheir separate realm.
Every 5 to 7 milibar separation is the basics.
You must divide hits day by day.
It depends of what kind of AP you are, you´ll see differencies but BP only help and edge.
I´ve never test and analized moon phases and humidity, I really donnot know if they help
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One question ...
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The moisture in the air - degree of water in the air - humidity ...
How do you measuring "relative humidity" what is the unit/sign ? is it just % ?
As for Air pressure its mb= millibars ...
Quote from: ego on Apr 21, 07:34 AM 2012
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One question ...
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The moisture in the air - degree of water in the air - humidity ...
How do you measuring "relative humidity" what is the unit/sign ? is it just % ?
As for Air pressure its mb= millibars ...
Would we state ... There is no doubt the heavier the air the better conditions.
Straight Facts About HumidityHumidity is the amount of moisture or water vapour in the air. You, your family, and your pets produce moisture when you breathe or perspire. Even your indoor plants produce moisture. We add water vapour to indoor air through routine household activities: cooking, showering, bathing, doing laundry, and dishwashing. More moisture can enter your home from the surrounding soil through a basement or crawl space.
Relative HumidityHumidity is normally measured as relative humidity (RH). RH is a percentage that indicates the amount of moisture in the air relative to the maximum amount the air can hold at that temperature. For instance, when air at a given temperature contains all the water vapour it can hold at that temperature, it has a RH of 100 per cent. If the humidity exceeds 100 per cent, moisture will begin to condense from the air. If the air contains only half the water it can hold at that temperature, the RH is 50 per cent.
Warm air can hold more moisture than cool air, so that the RH of a sample of air will change as the temperature changes, even though the actual amount of moisture in the sample air does not. For example, as a sample of air cools the RH rise
(link:://i41.tinypic.com/20tfh3m.png)
Using Your HygrometerYour hygrometer will show the relative humidity (RH) in your house. Although the RH will not be exactly the same throughout your home, one hygrometer per house is usually sufficient. You should place it where the humidity symptoms are most obvious, in the room that you are most concerned about, or where your family spends the most time. Because hygrometers are small, they can be moved around in your house from time to time.
Don’t place your hygrometer near a radiator, a heat register or a chimney, or in any other location where it could be affected by direct heat.
Remember that a hygrometer does not produce instant results. It may take up to two hours to provide a stable reading in a new location or to adjust to sudden changes in relative humidity.
Why not use both - Casio Trek watch and Hygrometer - sound pretty cool
Search for Casio Trek watch with air pressure and hydrometer - find some other alternative - but not with measuring air pressure.
(link:://i44.tinypic.com/n18gft.png)
QuoteThere is no doubt the heavier the air the better conditions.
Not really. Technically on most wheels, the scatter would be ever so slightly better when air pressure is higher, but by no noticeable amount. All air pressure should be seen as is "different conditions" that affect the ball deceleration rate and speed at which the ball falls (on average). Most significant is overall deceleration. But ball track grit makes much more of a difference than air pressure.
Some of my players track air pressure and humidity but you dont really need to. They are just a guide. They can tell you when one variable has significantly changed. Its like knowing a potential cause, but you also need to know the effect. It is much better to go directly to understanding and accounting for the the effect. Besides there are so many variables you dont always know which has had which effect.
OMG i search and read before i find the right Casio watch.
I been recommended to get Casio Protrek PRG-250T-7DR ... Titanium
But in Europa the same watch has different name - witch was confusing at the begining of my search - but finally find it ... Casio Protrek PRW-2500-7ER ... Titanium
I find i good price 400 Euro ...
(link:://i49.tinypic.com/11bkkk9.png)
Air pressure
Sea & tide level
Moon phase
There is also the same watch with out being made of titanium ...
Casio Protrek PRW-2500-1ER
For around 320 Euro
(link:://i46.tinypic.com/13zae0p.png)
Ego, what do you know about humidity, moon phase and their influence in ball orbits?
That is private witch i would not share on public boards.
And it not about what i know it is about what i have and seen.
Witch is why i will start to measuring the density in the air and air pressure - also note the sea level and moon phase - is not complex at all - just note values and positions and chart data with does present conditions.
I been speaking some pepole among the Advantage-play community and receive some very nice things - witch become a real eye opener.
For me the effect is not so huge as i only visit my local casino once or twice each week and i have not start traveling.
Sea level & tides has a close relation to gravity and moon phase.
Wheater in general has a close relation towards amount of water in the air and air pressure.
Now i find a watch who almost take all data i need witch been mention above.
I will use two watches at the same time and the missing one is one with hygrometer.