Requesting your ideas - New rng roulette game

[vladir]

Hello people,

Yes, this is rng. I know, rng, you loose, it's rigged,  bla bla bla....  So if you are scared of death from rng, you probably should not even bother reading this. So also I ask you to avoid those kind of comments, simply because most of us are already aware of that and to keep the focus on the point. We will assume here that it's not rigged. With that put aside, lets move on.


Playtech platform has a new type of roulette, I think it resembles american roulette, but with a couple of very interesting features added. Here is a brief overview and explanation of them:
link:://:.yours4money.com/casino-games/playtech-casinos-launch-marvel-roulette/

3 of the features are:

1 - instead of 00, we have a spot with a Marvel Symbol, that pays randomly between 4-99 the stake in that spot. (Assuming odds are the same for 4, 5, 6, ...98, 99 , I think this is better then a simple direct 35-1 payout, if my calculations are not wrong, it averages a 51,5 payout)

2 - In adition to our bets, every spin on this wheel can get us to one of the 4 Marvel Jackpots. The chances are slim, but they exist, I have hit the smaller jackpot once already (it always start's at minimum 50 and increases until someone get's it - I got it at aproximatly 140â,¬) . Also to note is that the chance to trigger the jackpot's increases with the size of the bet.

3 -  The game has an autoplay feature, with stop conditions. I just love this feature, it helps a lot in testing

So, the idea here was to find a system that not necessarly wins, but that can make us keep playing withouth loosing, since every bet has an added, slim chance to trigger a jackpot. Or some kind of system focused on harvesting the marvel symbol, with an edge bet on the other numbers.

Please share your tougths and ideas.

[Chrisbis]

I have recently played this 'wheel'/type of roulette game.
(can not call it Wheel, because its a computer simulation, so its "wheel"...keeps the die hard pros happy)

Anyway, yeah I saw it last week, at VernonsCasino.com I think.....
My first spin, I bet 1 unit on Marvel/Zero split..............................and guess what?

[reveal]
U still guessing?
[/reveal]

[ausguy]

vladir - There's a saying a mate of mine from years back often used that fits your RNG views. It was funny then & still funny now & I'll quote it here.

"If you believe that then you'll believe dogs use toilet paper"

Also if you don't have a closed mind on RNG roulette, do a search (4th across near orange home logo up top on the main page, this forum) & type in CHEATING RNG SOFTWARE.

Check out all the linked posts as well, then come back on here & tell all what you then think.

Belief is a strange thing, Centuries ago people believed (or were told to believe) that the Earth was flat & that the sun and all the stars revolved around it.

Unless you have a very large bank roll I'll say you wouldn't survive 50 - 100 Marvel betting sessions and certainly not be in profit simply because the odds and the game program manipulations are against you.

It seems like you are promoting this game and down playing the fact that RNG cheats too many players ?

You say "We will assume here that it's not rigged. With that put aside, lets move on." That statement is ridiculous & lacks logic ?

[Chris555p]

Completely agree with Ausguy RNG is just roulette simulation......lol lol; Nothing
better than the real B&M casino or live online rouletta; Everything else is fake.....
Just my two cents.

[ausguy]

What!   Someone (chrisbis) actually completely agrees with me. I'm going to take a valium & have a good lie down.

[Serendipity]

What!   Someone (chrisbis) actually completely agrees with me. I'm going to take a valium & have a good lie down.

LOL... wasn't chrisbis )

Completely agree with Ausguy RNG is just roulette simulation......LoL LoL; Nothing
better than the real B&M casino or live online rouletta; Everything else is fake.....
Just my two cents.

was Chris555p

have you already taken the valium you were talking about? )

[ausguy]

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Eyyemma seww zzoorree bbouut ddatt mizztakke &&& eyima guunnna doo muttchho betttaa iff ii kumm bakk iinnn 1 or 2 daayzzee.

See: ttireredddee nowws seww kknnighhtee nniite frooom OZZZZ.

[superman]

The OP's request was

So if you are scared of death from rng, you probably should not even bother reading this. So also I ask you to avoid those kind of comments, simply because most of us are already aware of that and to keep the focus on the point

But yet ausguy just can't resist, WE KNOW ausguy, we know!

@ vladir, you have th epower to delete ausguy and chris555p posts, to keep your thread clean, I would suggest removing them. Also, while on the subject of playtech, personally I don't trust their software, they can manipulate the next number, the only RNG I trust is betvoyager, note I have nothing to do with them as a company, they use the hash function which cannot cheat period!

[vladir]

vladir - There's a saying a mate of mine from years back often used that fits your RNG views. It was funny then & still funny now & I'll quote it here.

"If you believe that then you'll believe dogs use toilet paper"

LOL. I knew the topic would end in this eventually, but din't expect it to be so soon...
I wanted to stay way from this topic, but it seems it can't be avoided... I explicitly said "I'm AWARE " - I know that SOME casinos cheat... It's unfortunate, but nothing will ever be discussed except this, so I will answer you anyway.

First thing I wan't to point out is that I believe nothing.

Also if you don't have a closed mind on RNG roulette, do a search (4th across near orange home logo up top on the main page, this forum) & type in CHEATING RNG SOFTWARE.

Check out all the linked posts as well, then come back on here & tell all what you then think.

Belief is a strange thing, Centuries ago people believed (or were told to believe) that the Earth was flat & that the sun and all the stars revolved around it.

I really don't understand where you got the idea that "I believe" whatever you are suggesting I believe... Maybe you are a believer that I believe because others where believer's too? Because I din't say I believed anything... It's a very far fetched conclusion you took and clearly you didn't read at least the part where I say "I'm AWARE".

Also, if you had payed a close attention, you could have noticed I have been here for a while and by now I already know how to do a search. But thanks for explaining the obvious again.

About CHEATING RNG SOFTWARE, I'm AWARE of this, I particularly followed Bayes topics, especially about betvoyager, long time ago on this same forum. I don't see any point in revisiting them, but if there is anything in particular that I should see, go ahead and show me something you think I have not seen.

And what I think? I think it's a mathematical certainty that the players loose due to HE and variance. This can of course, be a wrong conclusion, but if you think it is, prove me wrong by logical means and I will certainly accept it.
In addition to this, and although a casino can technically go through cheating ventures to win more in the short run, it's not business savvy to do it in the long run, especially when there is a brand already making lots of money from the game rules working as they are designed.
I don't believe all rng's are "fair" and play by the rules...
But I also don't believe all RNG's are cheating...

As I said I don't believe anything. There is always the risk we can be cheated. But I have new for you here - you have this risk EVERYWHERE! If you think a B&M casino can't cheat you, then you are very naive...

Unless you have a very large bankroll I'll say you wouldn't survive 50 - 100 Marvel betting sessions and certainly not be in profit simply because the odds and the game program manipulations are against you.

It seems like you are promoting this game and down playing the fact that RNG cheats too many players ?

The odds are against the player - true.
Program manipulations against us? They certainly can be made technically, it's quite easy if they wan't to do it actually and probably there are many casinos out there that do it. Is this enough for to conclude that all RNG's are cheating? It's a logical fallacy if you jump to that conclusion and turns you into a believer ...

Oh, and I would love to be promoting and winning nice commissions promoting this game or any other... If someone is reading and is interested, I will do it for a nice paycheck
Unfortunately to my own disappointment, that is not the case... I genuinely wished to see if there is any possibility to, even slightly, find a way to exploit the features of this particular game, not to directly win on the roulette itself, but simply to avoid losing - and hopping to hit a jackpot on the way while playing. 


Players loose mainly to HE and variance. This is not a belief, it's a mathematical certainty.  It's kind of funny to see the statements of "omg, 15 blacks in a row, I lost my martingale! They cheated on me!" and then jumping to the "all RNG's cheat" ...

You say "We will assume here that it's not rigged. With that put aside, lets move on." That statement is ridiculous & lacks logic ?

Yes, I said that. It's a "what if " statement. It's used a lot in illogical and ridiculous grounds, the kind of where I work. That's how we create hypothetical scenarios to experiment new ideas. We assume some variables are true or false, so we can work on the other variables.

In this case in particular, the statement is as ridiculous and illogical as it's opposite statement -  you seem to be assuming, although you haven't explicitly put it on words - "all rng's cheat" . They are opposites, but none can be verified as absolute truths. The big difference is that you seem to believe in your statement, and I was only making a "what if" scenario.

[vladir]

The OP's request was

But yet ausguy just can't resist, WE KNOW ausguy, we know!

@ vladir, you have th epower to delete ausguy and chris555p posts, to keep your thread clean, I would suggest removing them. Also, while on the subject of playtech, personally I don't trust their software, they can manipulate the next number, the only RNG I trust is betvoyager, note I have nothing to do with them as a company, they use the hash function which cannot cheat period!

Superman, agree with you. In terms of trust, I trust more in betvoyager with hash function then in a regular B&M casino.
I also have nothing to do with any of them.

Regarding playtech, I have a more neutral stance. Yes, they *can* manipulate it.  If they actually do it... I leave it in the open, as I cannot be sure. Let's say it's a risk I'm willing to take, *if* I can devise a system that sligthly overcomes HE/variance and allows in theory, not to win but also not to lose, but to "stay in the game". That was the purpose of this topic

PS: Sometimes it's not even a risk, when they offer some money to play. Nothing to lose there anyway, and I have won some small ammounts with bonuses alone...

PPS: I will keep the current comments and even a response if they want to make it. However I may follow your advice and delete further post's if they or more people keep insisting on offtopic issues.

[Chrisbis]

just going back to my point about the Marvel feature.......

my first spin, and I had placed a "Marvel/Zero" split bet,
was for it to land on "Marvel"....... spooky eh! 

You then go on to play a short "Slots" type bonus round, and I got a little extra bonus from it.

The max payout is only if you hit ALL three spins on the Marvel Bonus Slots Spin.

The higher payout dividend isn't instantly paid out!
You have to work.........and have luck to get it!

[ausguy]

I don't play any RNG games including roulette. I stopped playing RNG roulette in 2010 because I never won once, NEVER. I only ever played the even money outside chances. I had reasonable bank rolls in relation to the table limits.

I also see that new features are being introduced from time to time, the Marvel play you mentioned is a good example.

I played a total of 41 sessions over 5 months in 2010 at various casinos including Smart Live, Yukon Gold, Casino Tropez (Brit.Virgin Is.) Party Casino, William Hill, plus others.

In total I lost around $6,400 AUD. Compare that with live dealer B & M play, while still down by a few thousand my win rate is around 45% of my total plays.

That's the big difference. As Superman points out Playtech can manipulate the next number & the next & the next....24/7, month in & month out.

As to a "what if". How do casinos manage the RNG plays on a bet by bet basis ? Lets say sometimes there's 1,000 players on the game server for the one game. As I understand it the RNG numbers are processed at sub milli - second speeds. So each player has a wheel image of the table & no other players betting on "your layout".

Someone posted yonks ago that the RNG numbers where crunched at 2 billion per second ? That being the case then an unlimited amount of players can be accomodated ?

With so many players betting, every number would be covered many many times over ? With variable amounts on each number there has to be some type of central bet control that decides who wins & who loses ?  Otherwise they would either pay out too much & make a loss or take in more than needed ? It has to be bet interactive to function. It wouldn't be just variance & HE ?

Again "what If ", say there was a run of blacks starting eg 5 straight & 90% of the 1k players started betting black, so big money is bleeding out of the casinos game account. So black spins twice more & the losses mount. The "alarm bells" have rung in the CPU & so instead of 15 blacks there was 7 blacks. The program slots in a couple of zeros, some reds & a black or two. This then transfers the bleeding from the casino back to the player.

I don't know too much about BV, I know about the # function so a certain number of spins are locked in & checkable. Perhaps their CPU reads your trends if you are winning & best guesses avoidance numbers ? Perhaps selective player targeting + variance + HE keeps them keeping on keeping on ? I recall posts some time back about them tweeking their rules on neutral betting to stop players having nil bet spins. 

As RNG roulette is an EGM electronic gaming machine, as is slots, they have to return a preset % back to the player.  Like in slots they mostly use the small win totals function to get & % compliance. Then the game is free to take you down.

This info. is listed on any gaming regulators site, "take you down" aside. They mention audits only check long term trends for % compliance, not up & down win/loss spikes on short term plays. Something like a stock market chart that graphically is often all jagged & up & down like a roller coaster but the trailing moving average line smooths out the peaks & troughs.

To make it work they would need a decent CPU program. No doubt profit & loss would ebb & flow but the program would always meet the long term payout % as well as making regular profits for the casino/venue.

You can theorise ad infinitum about it but at the end of the day all that counts is whether you've won or lost.

I wish you well in your quest for success & Superman too on his BV plays.