random vs random outcome

[Chris555p]

At fairway live Wheel I saw a few days ago 1st dozen being missed for....31 spins
in a row.....; Any thoughts....??

[nottophammer]

yes that seen in uk bookies Chris, and e/c for 24 spins numerous times,as Ati said theres no difference.

[ati]

I won't try to convince anybody as I cannot be 100% sure of rng's fairness, but I hope one day I can be a regular winner, and bring some evidence. Not many proven winners with live play either, but that's probably because roulette said to be unbeatable, so soon or later everyone fails. I still think I can thank most of my losings to my own stupidity. I always had nice runs, but when I struggled I did things like betting with 10 euro units with a 500 euro roll, instead of taking a step back and grind it up again.

[huskerdu]

Maybe we're talking about cheating of RNGs, because  we all have seen more ''evil'' things at the online RNGs than at live casinos.
And that's logical, because we have spent much more time online than at live casinos. Imagine that 1 hour of playing at online roulette coresponds to one or two days at a casino. So, if we have seen 1 billion spins online and respectfully 1.000.000 spins at land-based casinos, it's logical to have seen more crazy outcomes  online.
I think that if we could spend two whole days at a casino looking without stoping the outcmes of all  the tables, we would have seen ''evil'' things as RNG. For example we all have seen at live casions 14 consecutive times red or black. But at online we have seen 24. I think it can be done and at live casions, it just haven't happen when we were there.
So maybe random is random whetever you play, live or online, the same thing.

[nottophammer]

Nice reply Huskerdu and Ati's as well.

have recodings of over 1000 rng games i've played and now recording smartlive. Early days but first ten spins much the same, next thirty spins looking the same as well. But when and if live and rng results look similar, whos to say anyone would believe anyway.

Has spell check stopped working?

[Vicardo]

The wrole concept of rng is wrong from the start in my opinion. The casino can do anything to manipulate the game with digital numbers. Even if they are supposed to be fair, on the internet it is too easy to be scammed. Fair to who? To the casino so they have the unfair advantage?

[huskerdu]

If online casino cheats and land-based casino not, why we lose at both casinos in about the same way? Why a system that has failed at  online casinos has also failed at land-based casinos?
I think casinos don't need cheatng. They have all pros with them :
1. Randomness - chaos  in accordance with gamblers fallacy. What a killer !!!!! Who has beat it?
2. The house edge.
3. Man's nature and psychology. Greedness, excess self-confidence for a way of playing, the easy way of earning money (think about to sit on a table and earn money without having a boss or any other commitments...), and the biggest enemy of all the vain and panic tries to regain our looses (think about how many times your system has failed when  the roulette swapping contisusly your bankroll and you don't know what to do and under in panic and negative psychologyat your last  futile bets are in panic in order to regain and finally you looose it all)

[ddarko]

For all you guys who think RNG & Live wheels are the same.....

Casino's are not charities or non profit organizations right ?

Years ago (things may well of changed now) I played at a Microgaming website, I cannot for the life of remember who....

Their limit on a single number with the "live" roulette game ? £25-00

Their limit on a single number with the RNG roulette game ? £250-00

Make from that what you will.....

[ausguy]

husherdu - I think your view on casinos is flawed. Just look at the operation of slot machines, they are RNG so why don't they just rely on randomness to beat the players ? Slots & how they operate might go back 80 or 90 years or longer. The operation of slots is set up so that the casino/venue has a constant guaranteed return. To do this they manipulate the results. Go onto Google, it's well explained there.

Just like with a cars odometer the tenths turn over quite quickly & the 100,000's oh so slowly. The tenths pay peanuts & the big numbers the higher value jackpots. Oh yes the big jackpot goes off but rarely, if ever, do you see another big one go off soon after the 1st one on the same machine ? I don't play them but talk a little to people who do. New South Wales State Australia has 10% of the worlds Slot/Poker machines. Only 5 million people out of 6 billion.

Using Slots ideas as a basis, RNG for other games has evolved including roulette. All with variants of manipulated results so as to guarantee steady returns. Couple this with not needing a dealer is the way to go for the casino/venue, lower overheads = more profit.

Also RNG "cheats" because under the gaming regs. they are allowed to.

I have found that RNG roulette either on line or at a live casino (Vegas Star) has hardly ever given me wins, whereas live dealer wheels have averaged about a 45% win strike rate over 12 years of playing. Yes I fully agree that the house edge keeps them ahead, thus the 10 % advantage they've had with my money over time.

Your points in no.3 is something that can be mostly eliminated with good MM (money management), bet & progression management. All controlled via a well planned bet sheet. With hundreds of hours of information available on the forums words such as greediness, excess self confidence, vain & panic, negative psychology, futile bets, panic in order to regain, should not enter the equation ?

It all boils down to that very relevant saying "Failing to plan is planning to fail".

[ugly bob]

For all you guys who think RNG & Live wheels are the same.....

Casino's are not charities or non profit organizations right ?

Years ago (things may well of changed now) I played at a Microgaming website, I cannot for the life of remember who....

Their limit on a single number with the "live" roulette game ? £25-00

Their limit on a single number with the RNG roulette game ? £250-00

Make from that what you will.....

Hello ddarko

I think one of the reasons for keeping the 'live wheel' limits low was that it would be easy for a group of players to get together on Skype or something similar and construct a progression so they could give themselves a very good chance of winning. So keeping the limit low made it harder to achieve and not worth the effort for most. More recently however, I have noticed a lot of the Playtech casinos have very high limits even on their 'live wheels'. The advancements in technology would make me more wary than ever about playing online nowadays and I much prefer to play at B+M casinos.

cheers

[ddarko]

thanks bob  interesting point....

[Steve]

Some wheels I've seen have an outside betting limit of 50,000 Euro, and inside betting limit of 500 Euro. That says something too.

[ddarko]

Some wheels I've seen have an outside betting limit of 50,000 Euro, and inside betting limit of 500 Euro. That says something too.

You cannot win on the outside bets by any chance ?

[Steve]

I think one of the reasons for keeping the 'live wheel' limits low was that it would be easy for a group of players to get together on Skype or something similar and construct a progression so they could give themselves a very good chance of winning.

An approach like this wouldnt work because, like any progression, the big losses wipe the combined bankroll out. It would be no different to losing on a low limit table, reaching the maximum bet, then moving to a table with a higher betting limit. It doesnt increase your chances of winning. It only increases the amount you wager.

[Steve]

Darko, get a haircut 

Sue you can win with outside bets, but I dont believe in the long term (ie winnings without luck). Things the casinos do tell us a lot about what they know about beating roulette.

You'd think they are the experts in the game. Actually they rely on a handful of key consultants that know a lot. Some of these consultants advise on wheel designs. Some of them continue to directly educate casino staff. And one of them directly said the professional players know more than them, because they are the ones putting the most effort into studying the game.

Either way, casinos are using better technology and roulette is getting harder to beat. I dont think it will ever be completely unbeatable. More like a gradual reduction in beatable wheels. The world is likely to be a very different place in the coming 10-20 years and I suspect by then, casinos will become less prevalent because money will have less significance. Anyway thats getting off topic.