Roulette thoughts.

[dwa36]

Hi I am a new member but have lurked on the forum for a while.  I find it interesting reading all the systems and getting ideas to try and find ways of tightening roulette play.

My belief is the first thing when playing roulette is to protect the bankroll like its your last ever.  The big question when playing is when to walk is it when +1 unit up, or if chasing getting back to say for e.g 90-100% of the money in play on that session (basically a free/low cost bet with a chance of getting ahead), playing a certain amount of spins/stake and walking away up or down. 

Another thing is bet sizes make a difference.  For e.g betting 35 numbers one spin only (another thread on forum).  Ok if betting with £10 chips but no good with 50p chips as wouldn't be worth it.

One thing I do know is anything can happen.  One day can hit numbers like a psychic, another day miss after miss, another day grinding but can't get ahead or far behind.  Look forward to reading/posting bit random this post like the game of roulette.

[ego]

PART 1

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Math Professor Posted 03/20/06

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Someone quoted John Patrick as saying I don't win much but I don't lose much either.
Now he was critical of this statement but there is a reason for it.

We who have lived with gambling all our lives understand the relationship between what we win and what we lose.

The Equation is simple enough .
Magnitude of profit is usually a function of magnitude of wagering.

One of the most common failures in gambling is progressive betting.
Several small wins are satisfying but  when the next small win does not happen and it turns into a progression which often recovers the day but sometimes results in ruination.

Giving up on a progression is hard because losing can mean the erosion of several days work.

The gambling flaw is inherent in this.
Christopher Pawlicki highlighted this fact.
The equation for winning small returns often calls for a progression .
The progression  ultimately however snatches away the prevous wins.

For example 20 + 20 +20 +20 +20 has been achieved with 50 + 100 + 80 + 120 + 100  The final destructive act is a 100  that does not recover .
Even without a progression 100 absorbs the 5  sets of 20 + wins.

I call this the 20/100 flaw.

20 is therefore 20% of 100.
A good result by any standards.

In order to control the erosion of previous wins the ratio of win to wager
needs to be as close to parity as possible.

Say 80 + 80 +80 +80 + 80  with 100 + 100 + 100 + 100 + 100

If the 100 goes then we still have nearly 4 days work intact.
We can walk away and get them again another day.
Not many gamblers can achieve 80%.

This is the flaw.

There must be plenty of gamblers here who understand this but any replies should be better than 3 and out .
The math does not work.

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JOHN PATRICK Posted 03/20/06

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excellent point but go back to your opening paragraph and it is not clear ............You said      "he was critical of this statement ................"

I THINK you meant he was CRITIZIED  for this statement ...............

and you're right..................there were a couple of people who laughed at it as meaning I was content with small wins..........adn that ALL I wanted to do was lose a little each day.........

I am glad you picked up on what I really meant by saying that (naturally) I would like to win more, but I am more interested in holding losses down.........

and THAT point that you made about people who do NOT gamble every day , not realizing this is the total and complete point I try to embellish in their minds every day............

Someone else (I think it was Rick K., a few days ago), also touched on that fact .................how really hard it is to win..........and that you HAVE to somehow, someway, condition yourself to win small to ensure you don't lose big ..........to be able to stay alive in this journey called gambling..........

You showed the SERIES you use ..........

What is the LOSS LIMIT and WIN GOAL you advise...........(percentage wise)

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Math Professor Posted 03/20/06

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" What is the LOSS LIMIT and WIN GOAL you advise...........(percentage wise)"

Well that is my question to everyone ! 
What I am doing here is highlighting the problem we have with the percentage we go for.

The greater the difference between the amount we wager and the amount we accept ,as a win ,the more of a problem we have.
Lets say (as you have stated) that 5% is a professional aspiration. So we wager 100 for 5 .

That might seem reasonable but look at the result say over 5 days.
+ 5 +5 +5 +5 +5 = 25 . that's great we are winning 5 each day and we haven't lost. Now on day six we wager 100 and bust out !

We are now - 75 !   

We were going up and down with our 100.
But then we hit a bad spell and it eroded to 0.

The problem here is that we often have to go down to nearly zero
to make the continuous flow of 5's.

if our 5 day win was +60 +30 +20 + 120 +40  and this can be achieved with 100 and the 100 busts after 5 days we have .
won +170.  (270 - 100) .

I often work on 100 or 70 from 200. That is I am prepared to lose 200 for these great returns and if I can manufacture 70 od chips every day with a wager of 200 chips then I am going to survive if the cumulative value exceeds 100 after bust out.

What I would like to know from yourself is what your wager is in relation
to what you accept for that session and how do you overcome this flaw.

This is where Pawlicki is making the case that the crash will come and steal away your cumulative gains. Its the problem that haunts all gamblers.
Gamblers ruin.

PART 2

This is the best solution i find regarding this topic - Brett Mortons Money Management Method - from the book "Playing to win".

I find Brett Morton's "Fund Management" being very clever.
Does not just sett a limit for stop loss with win goal - it also show when to push for jackpot (push for more).
It also has built in safety net that catch before it is to late (avoid to lose it all back).

With all the necessary componets to define a present session.
When to start when to quit when to push or be catch by a safety net before its to late.

PROGRESS UP THE LADDER - PLAY AND PUSH OR FALL INTO SAFETY NETS



Now what amount make me happy - i would say for example 50 Euro, that would feel ok or great.
So that should be my Happy-Point,,, the first win-target.

Loss-Limit should not be more then my Happy-Point so now i have the Loss-Limit of 50 Euro.
That was easy to set up does guide lines based upon this money management strategy.

50 Loss-Limit
50 Happy-Point

This is how Brett Morton does it.
But nothing prevent us to set higher loss-limit and lower Happy-Point.

Now when or if i reach Happy-Point and want to continue to next win target Gold-Top - then i can't lose it all as there is a Bottom Line Target - "safety net" - that stops me from losing it all.
I set the BTL (bottom line target) 10 Euro as i want as much money i can get to continue for next win target and in the same time not go home with a empty wallet.

50 Loss-Limit
10 Bottom-Line-Target
50 Happy-Point

That would mean i would have 40 to fight with to reach my secound win-target (Gold-Top).
And if i would lose it all back, then i would stop with +10 as my safety net (Bottom-Line-Target).

50 Loss-Limit
10 Bottom-Line-Target
50 Happy-Point

Now i don't want to rush things so i aim for 70 as Gold-Top - the second win target.

50 Loss-Limit
10 Bottom-Line Target
50 Happy-Point
70 Gold-Top

Lets assume i win and don't stopp at Happy-Point or stopp at Gold-Top and continue for Jackpot.
Then i can only use the money between Happy-Point and Gold-Top to grind out profits (that would be 20).
Then Happy-Point is my secound safety net.

50 Loss-Limit
10 Bottom-Line-Target
50 Happy-Point
70 Gold-Top
?? Jackpot

You can adjust this strategy as you feel like.
Brett Morton say that you should have Loss-Limit around the same amount as Happy-Point.
But he also say he stop playing many times before he reach first win-target.
Bottom-Line-Target you can set to minimum so you have more money to fight whit as you play for next win target.

So when you walk into the casino or at home you make up your money management plan.

Loss-Limit
Bottom-Line-Target
Happy-Point
Gold-Top
Jackpot

Now you can look at the image again and you will understand.

Above is one example and i agree with you Kav that we should set low win-targets.
But they can not be lower then giving us a spreed to push for more.

I think this set up is best.

200 Loss-Limit
  10 Bottom-Line-Target
  40 Happy-Point
  60 Gold-Top
  ?? Jackpot

Cheers