Hello
First, I noticed you can no longer change the SHA thingy from 10 to 60. Mine just won't let me do it and I've tried over and over again.
After many trials and after talking to several people, I'm leaning toward the idea that BV does send a stream(s) to beat what you're doing. Here is why.
When I run the robot two times in a row, it seemingly always wins the first and loses the second trot. If I do nothing in between the loser and the next try, I get another loser. I've lost about a hundred Euro doing this 10 Euro at a time.
However, if I run the robot and it wins and then I manually bet the Boffin's or MOP's "Surround" or one of my systems to recover the 10 E--the next time I log on with the robot, it wins. What I win manually with and what the robot does are beastly close to the same system so there is no reason one would lose and one would crash.
So my conclusion is I need to be constantly switching systems between about four and they can't catch me.
I'm sure the reason they quit the 60 spins "etched it stone" is this. You start betting a system, then flip it. Since they were sending numbers to make you lose, they are now sending numbers that would make you win. Just go from a dime to a dollar and clean house. For fifty spins, you have them by the ying-yang!
Or not......
Sam
"First, I noticed you can no longer change the SHA thingy from 10 to 60. Mine just won't let me do it and I've tried over and over again."
works for me :xd:
Now that made me mad!
If it is done as in the help page, and before it do not works by European Roulette.
I never use to change it, but I saw Sams post, and try. I could not!
Well just tried it on both play mode and real mode, both work fine, if they didn't want you to do it they would probably remove it, see attached screenshot of real money mode
BVNZ
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Aug 21, 10:47 AM 2012
Hello
First, I noticed you can no longer change the SHA thingy from 10 to 60. Mine just won't let me do it and I've tried over and over again.
After many trials and after talking to several people, I'm leaning toward the idea that BV does send a stream(s) to beat what you're doing. Here is why.
When I run the robot two times in a row, it seemingly always wins the first and loses the second trot. If I do nothing in between the loser and the next try, I get another loser. I've lost about a hundred Euro doing this 10 Euro at a time.
However, if I run the robot and it wins and then I manually bet the Boffin's or MOP's "Surround" or one of my systems to recover the 10 E--the next time I log on with the robot, it wins. What I win manually with and what the robot does are beastly close to the same system so there is no reason one would lose and one would crash.
So my conclusion is I need to be constantly switching systems between about four and they can't catch me.
I'm sure the reason they quit the 60 spins "etched it stone" is this. You start betting a system, then flip it. Since they were sending numbers to make you lose, they are now sending numbers that would make you win. Just go from a dime to a dollar and clean house. For fifty spins, you have them by the ying-yang!
Or not......
Sam
Sam just read this;
--I won pretty at betvoyager fun mode,but I just wanted to warm you;
I don't think bots work;I asked my uncle who is a programmer at large
company in Israel & he said that the hash program they use is a 1 way
function-its secure but it also makes it impossible to verify if the numbers
are picked before you play.The trick is in the server code they provide after
you click END series button.The hash line they show above the table will be
seen after you click END to see the numbers generated, & end the series/initate
a new one,but all they have to do is manipulate the server code so that they
appear the same.
- there you are Sam.-----by the way--I got it in my mail the other day.
QuoteI don't think bots work
LOL, they do
Quotethe hash program they use is a 1 way
function-its scoure but it also makes it impossible to verify if the numbers
are picked before you play
Rubbish, you can test it easily byt asking for 10 numbers, spin 9 then hit End and see if they match
Quotebut all they have to do is manipulate the server code so that they
appear the same
More rubbish, they can't change something that's all ready created, the server codes is added to the numbers BEFORE the hash is generated.
Flat, we know you hate RNG like many of us hate the real wheel, don't beleive everything you read, it usually sore losers looking for reasons or someone to blame for their poor performance.
MAYBE, just maybe with each new set of numbers they 'may' deliver what they 'hope' is going to kill you off but I can't see that happening unless you just play one ec all day long.
FLATS--doesn't understand the word I got in my mail,--but can pressume what he meant.
---I KNEW YOU GET PAID FROM THIS MAFIA-----and also pressumed you will be first to defend em.
Somebody help me........link:://youtu.be/rkKJyxRO-Rg (link:://youtu.be/rkKJyxRO-Rg)
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Aug 21, 01:38 PM 2012
Somebody help me........link:://youtu.be/rkKJyxRO-Rg (link:://youtu.be/rkKJyxRO-Rg)
Sam, the number 0-35 are to break up the number. I dont really use it but it would work like this
You select 11. You spin 11 and the number spat out will be 22
As for the 60 default and then click New, do that BEFORE you spin ure first number
HTH
I got it working now, it was probably that its sometimes difficult to do just on click on my computer, its worn of all klicking weil plaing.
Quote from: F_LAT_INO on Aug 21, 01:08 PM 2012
Sam just read this;
--I won pretty at betvoyager fun mode,but I just wanted to warm you;
I don't think bots work;I asked my uncle who is a programmer at large
company in Israel & he said that the hash program they use is a 1 way
function-its secure but it also makes it impossible to verify if the numbers
are picked before you play.The trick is in the server code they provide after
you click END series button.The hash line they show above the table will be
seen after you click END to see the numbers generated, & end the series/initate
a new one,but all they have to do is manipulate the server code so that they
appear the same.
- there you are Sam.-----by the way--I got it in my mail the other day.
If you and your uncle knew better about sha256 hash encoding, you wouldn't say so :thumbsup:
Please believe me, this hash is impossible to hack/fake for the moment and for the years to come...
Quote from: 2IZI4U on Aug 21, 02:15 PM 2012
If you and your uncle knew better about sha256 hash encoding, you wouldn't say so :thumbsup:
Please believe me, this hash is impossible to hack/fake for the moment and for the years to come...
This is true but even Mr ore said one time they can still cheat you
His words were to this effect,
"there is no reason for them to see what you are doin then send you a bunch of numbers, with the sha hash intact, and beat you that way. The numbers would check out because they were predetrmind"
Ure milage may vary.
Quote---I KNEW YOU GET PAID FROM THIS MAFIA-----and also pressumed you will be first to defend em
:xd:
QuoteIf you and your uncle knew better about sha256 hash encoding, you wouldn't say so (link:://rouletteforum.cc/Smileys/default/thumbsup.gif)
Uh oh, another BV employee :twisted: that's 2 of us, I suppose you think Bayes is also employed by them?
It's funny the people that play at RNG casinos don't moan about real wheels, besides the speed they play, grass grows quicker, but the people that play at real wheels are always moaning about RNG's, for the umpteenth time, WE KNOW
Thank you, Twister, for that explanation. I'll try it.
Sam
---As said earlier to me this is all science fiction,and logic tell me those mafia
is taking you on.And hearing only part/as others embarrassed to admit it/
of stories ppl./actual players/here tells me what is going on there.
Neither you or Bayes are so naive to think otherwise but you have no choice.
Money drills any wall.
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Aug 21, 02:32 PM 2012
Thank you, Twister, for that explanation. I'll try it.
Sam
Ok mate
I may not of explained the 0-35 numbers very clearly.
I always leave it at Zero, however if you change it is has this effect.
Say you changed it to 10 and then the first number out is 15. If you now check the checksum by clicking the Tick to show you your predermind numbers the number shown will be 5 NOT 15. This is because you chose to add 10 to all predertmind numbers.
I can see no use to this, but there you go its a function, for whatever reason, they offer.
When I used to use BVNZ I always left that at Zero then changed 10 to 60 and clicked New. You now have 60 snow like numbers !
Twister
Does not work. I will include it in a movie about MOP's new system.
Sam
OK I will watch see if I can see whats goin on
I just logged into BVNZ and its fine and workin this end :ooh:
Twister
I have figured it out...and it's amazing!!!
Bet Voyager can be accessed two ways, through your browser like Firefox or as a downloaded program. My bot only works with the downloaded program.
The browser version of BV works just like you said it would, but the bot version will not change from 10. Now, people from the front row to the nosebleed section, if that doesn't tell you something, I don't know what does.
When I get time, I will check my play-money account at BV on the dowloadable version and see if it's the same. NOPE Just went to my other computer and it does the same on the dummy account.
Sam
Ah I see ! I only ever used the browser version
Wonder why the dl version is different......... :ooh:
Twister
The DL version is different because it is the one most bots run on. They are taking money, hence the difference.
My opinion only............
Sam
What is needed is "El Switcho Boto" that changes systems when one makes a unit!!
Ure not wrong Sam !
Twister
You know, I haven't seen it but I'll bet someone has a bot that does two things: It alternates systems in mid-stream and it changes that SHA sequence.
Sam
QuoteNeither you or Bayes are so naive to think otherwise but you have no choice
Nope we are not naive you are correct there, and yes we do have a choice, if I/we thought we were being cheated we wouldn't be there, funny though, when people lose they feel cheated!
@ Sam
The download version is full to the brim with bugs, it always has issues, be they disconnections or whatever, always use the browser version.
QuoteYou know, I haven't seen it but I'll bet someone has a bot that does two things: It alternates systems in mid-stream and it changes that SHA sequence
Not sure what you mean by the bold bit Sam?
Do you mean BV actually change the SHA during a set length run? if you do, you are wrong.
Please clarify because I have in the past monitored the SHA for 100s' of thousands of spins using different length segments from the default 10 numbers upto and including 60 which is the max, sadly due to HDD failure a few months ago I have lost all the data I had but I know I have done it.
Systems no matter what they are do NOT work on roulette long term, they only work within small windows of opportunity, sometimes those windows appear often enough for us to think we have a long term winner, other times there are very limited windows of opportunity. As many of you know I have tested many many systems over the years, my findings now are its not possible to bot a method of play that will win long term, understanding what is happening is the only way forward.
DISCLAIMER: I am not affiliated in anyway to BV LoL
I play at BV for one reason--no two--
1. I win money
2. I want to finally, once and for all, know if they cheat.
Man, do those statements seem mutually exclusive or paradoxical??
Superman
I mean that when a bot logs on, it changes the SHA number from 10 to 60 as you can do manually. Then it knows it has 60 numbers that cannot be tampered with and has 60 bets to win money. Then it could switch systems.
Sam
I have heard many times, they say BV cheat, the reason is they test in fun mode, and win. They play then in real mode and lose.
You can win in fun and lose in real mode, and the opposite. Its the same play.
They do not agree, never thought about they got a bankroll in fun mode of thousends, and the deposit 100 making the same kind of play.
Last time I discuss this the person feeling cheated had won 300 in fun mode, were 1230 at most down. Lost his deposit 70 Euro in real mode. Try to stake 1 Euro with a 70 bankroll, we can do, but the risk of losing it is much higher than if we stake 0.1 or 0.01.
When testing in fun mode, never use larger bankroll then you intend to use in real, otherwise it is not a fair test. And remember every time you play and lose, it is not a reason to suspect cheating.
BV will stand a computer test for randomness in both modes, and I think some of you here have allready done it. Should a test fail, for sure it had been posted.
Ralph
Trust me, I have thought of those things. Also of the human factor: It is easy to bet play money and hard to bet real. I have always said it may just be how the numbers run. I've seen them run the same on real wheels.
Sam
Sam,
It's possible that BV could cheat you in spite of the SHA, as mr.ore pointed out some time ago, but you can take simple precautions which would pretty much guarantee that they wouldn't succeed. The thing which seems to be overlooked is that it isn't easy to figure out how you're playing; Surely people don't seriously imagine that BV has staff whose job is to reverse engineer systems that punters may or may not be using? do you realise how difficult, expensive, and time consuming it would be to create software complex enough to even attempt that? And even if it could be done, they can't EVER know over how many spins you will be using the system. So the solution is simple: if you're paranoid, take several of your favourite systems and play them randomly, switching every 60 spins.
But, I think you've already figured that out. :thumbsup:
whatever you test on rng it has to be real money play if it is not do not waste your time... :thumbsup:
I agree with Ralph. There can be a big change in your psychology when playing with real money as opposed to fun mode, and often people aren't aware of it. They often play more cautiously and defensively when real money is at stake - "playing to break even", which doesn't work. Either that or they start panicking during drawdowns and make silly bets. All this can add up to the illusion that fun mode lets you win and real mode cheats you, because you're not aware of subtle changes in your play between the different modes.
The answer is to "know thyself".
maestro
I agree and do not play with fun money any more.
Bayes
I appreciate your time. Yesterday I won 20 Euro at BV. Things worked perfectly. That was betting .50 per hand. And progressing....... Perhaps at 5.00 my mind would have went down the tubes and I might have made mistakes. Then I might have blamed the RNG.
So I'll play and forget the cheating. If Ralph makes the kind of money he does, I can too..someday!
Sam
Yes, Ralph's amounts seem to be HUGE :ooh:
i think he's a miljonaire already if i see what amounts he shows in pictures :twisted:
Quote from: 2IZI4U on Aug 21, 02:15 PM 2012
If you and your uncle knew better about sha256 hash encoding, you wouldn't say so :thumbsup:
Please believe me, this hash is impossible to hack/fake for the moment and for the years to come...
For years to come?!? You MUSt be joking, it's been done already.
Vlad, the Impaler!
How do you know this?
Sam