I have been playing at smart live on the low stakes air ball for over 2 years now , the thing is i have come to a conclusion some how the thing is rigged. The ball often seems to bounce out of what would have been a winning pocket. The ball often land next to the betted pocket or simply no matter how many numbers you bet on it always misses. I have has some suspician for a while now
but i can't understand how such a machine could be manipulated this way. I don't know but i am quitting playing the air ball there as i do honestly believe some thing underhand is going on.
Any thoughts on the matter that the air ball is rigged.
I think they could perhaps blow a little extra air into a betted pocket just enough to stop a ball landing there. Let me know if you think they cheat on the air ball.. Thanks for viewing- Kingspin
Ohh just one other thing does this smart live actually pay out to big winners or don't they like
paying big winners. Usually the cheaters don't pay big wins!
Why would they rig the wheel for your low stakes when thousands are playing it
So they can make more money ;D
Quote from: Kingspin on Dec 22, 01:23 PM 2012
So they can make more money ;D
is it a real casino...you are sat at it on your own?...or online shared with thousands
Online , don't be fooled the air ball is rigged to the depths off hell , cheating gits.
There is something weird going off with their air ball , it's manipulated to make us loose.
Kingspin - As far as I'm aware airball roulette is in the same class of game as RNG video roulette, slots/poker machines, card games, dice etc. As such they are classed as Electronic Gaming Machines (EGMs) by the Gaming Authorities, not real live dealer spun random wheels. Seems to be pretty much this standard in many parts of the world. Many UK casinos use Malta & Gibralta as their accounting base. No doubt this gives them a better tax deal.
EGMs only have to comply with payout percentages back to the player via an independent audit. This might be done every month for example ? However they do it they don't have to account for spikes in wins or losses. Statisics work better with large number samples. They "milk" the player & the game never fails the audit because of the program format they run.
The airball roulette wheels do NOT have to comply with free random spinning like live dealer wheels.
In other words it is legal for them to "cheat" with variable control of the wheel speed & air jet holes and ball speed readers in/over the ball track. If you go to the Cammergh UK wheel makers site they had descriptions of their "cheating" technology. I don't know what brand wheel Smart Live (SL) has? but there are many ways to get the results they want. Another way could be to have an image bank of all 74 spins, 37 left & 37 right. From that bank they could display any number needed? The image you see always has the ball & wheel stopped just prior to each spin. With Nano second processing speed the eye can't detect high speed image changes.
Nowhere on any of these EGMs do you see a notice stating the the results are manipulated and the numbers/symbols are not true random. In fact they deceive by having you believe that you are playing a real deal wheel ?
Because of the above I'll only play Live dealer. Smart Live dealer wheel. Minimum is a lot higher than the air wheel. The 1 min. bet window is good if betting on a lot of positions. Party Casino live dealer is ok too if a shorter bet window suits your bets & a 2GBP min.
The spin rate is double SLs rate
You don't explain what you mean by "big winners" ? In May this year I won 3,200 GBP on SL.
I've won at SL lesser amounts in the hundreds in the past 1 1/2 years. I've always been paid although they are a little slow to pay up, about 1 week or so. To get paid your ID & account must fully comply otherwise they'll delay your payout until you do. 2 weeks ago I won over 800 GBP With Party Casino they paid out ok too but a weeks delay. I live in Australia and operate via Visa Debit linked to my bank account.
If you read the terms & cond.(T & C) plus where these casinos are registered you'll get to understand how they really function. Like SL does all the production, TV, NET from studios in London.The admin.?
Party Casino gets the spins feed from a Latvian studio, my payout was made from Gibralta and the say they are part of the Bwin Group, UK origin I believe? One big no no is to avoid the bonuses, too many hoops to jump through & usually a lot of restricted bet numbers that further increase the casino % odds = they win & you lose.
So King after 2 years you're realising how futile your betting on SL air roulette is ? I realised it after a few months early last year & haven't played RNG or air ball since.
Even though a player can be attracted to the low limits of that SL game if you add up your losses over time you'll realise that it's really a false economy? I was doing that but changed my thinking and went for a larger bankroll. I stopped betting for nearly 6 months and saved over 1,500AUD for a 1,000GBP BR. So far I'm well ahead. One good thing with SL is that you can log in to the live dealer feed & play with fun chips. This lets you test any idea & compare the fairness of Air vs Live.
Forum BR & Money Management may be worth some study. I, as many others have said they found that a larger BR led to more correct bet placements i.e. not afraid to push the bigger bets out.
Without change nothing will change.
@kingspin
Try the supercasino airball! They let you bet for about 10-15 seconds after the ball is released.
I have had a few 1k wins on that wheel and I don't think it's fixed.
Quote from: Kingspin on Dec 22, 01:39 PM 2012
Online , don't be fooled the air ball is rigged to the depths off hell , cheating gits.
There is something weird going off with their air ball , it's manipulated to make us lose.
But there are thousands playing the same wheel. How could they rig it so you and everyone lose.
Quote from: Turner on Dec 22, 02:30 PM 2012
But there are thousands playing the same wheel. How could they rig it so you and everyone lose.
@Turner
I don't know where you get the idea that there are thousands playing on that wheel.
I used to play there regularly and there are a lot of times when there would only be a dozen or so players on that airball machine. You could see all the players and the bets that were made. It also told you the total sum of bets placed and the total payout.
Quote from: ugly bob on Dec 22, 02:41 PM 2012
@Turner
I don't know where you get the idea that there are thousands playing on that wheel.
I used to play there regularly and there are a lot of times when there would only be a dozen or so players on that airball machine. You could see all the players and the bets that were made. It also told you the total sum of bets placed and the total payout.
but if there were hundreds would you see them all?
I think ausguy is absolutely spot on with what he says, i am sure the wheel is not live but just a recorded image , like he says the video editing is flawless so it looks like one continous scene is displayed when infact these are just recordings. I am one hundred percent sure the smart live small stakes wheel is not live but is recorded.
There is no way to see what other players are " at the table" now as this function does not work on the smart live display on my screen. I have quit playing it now as they are stopping me winning past a certain limit. Stay away from smart live air wheel.
Quote from: Kingspin on Dec 22, 05:13 PM 2012
There is no way to see what other players are " at the table" now as this function does not work on the smart live display on my screen.
They stopped that about 6 months ago. I mailed them and they said that they were having problems with it. Funnily enough the live dealer wheel still displayed everything fine at the time.
I thought that was rather suspicious and they have obviously not bothered to correct it.
You are right to leave them alone Kingspin. They are not the most transparent casino in several areas and deserve to be swerved.
Ug Bob - Are you still winning lately at Supercasino ?
Quote from: ausguy on Dec 22, 07:31 PM 2012
Ug Bob - Are you still winning lately at Supercasino ?
I don't play much online anymore ausguy! There is a casino only 20 minutes from me and I prefer to go there. Some of the waitresses are cute. ;)
Smart Live has a linked casino called Guru Casino. They use the same live dealer SL feed with higher upper limits. eg 1 : 1 bets are 1,500 vs 1,000 for SL.
Guru customer support claimed they were 100% indepedent of SL but when I tried to use the same IDs to set up a new account they failed. I modified the spelling & it went through at that.
As with all casinos roulette is not the main money spinner Slots/Poker machines are. Most promos involve slots, SL is pumping emails all the time.
SL dealer (actually they call them presenters) I see has the spins on some Sky channel in the UK & part of Europe too. They have telephone betting linked in with that.
My SL PC graphics is average at best. Has anybody seen the TV feed and if the graphics are good?
Even the live feed ball drop at times seems to defy the laws of physics? It would be interesting to get some Hi Res. graphics & slow it down to view. Ditto air ball.
The other promo. I often wonder about is their page that has a rolling display stating that such & such roulette player has won 94k or 104k or 78k & so on ? At the lower end they'll also show single digit wins. What these stated wins don't show is how much is a players net win is after all his/her losses? Some "wins" could also be some made up SL virtual players as bait for gullible players ?
I remember testing on free play a long time back & they were running my wins in with the real play wins display. That seems to have stopped for some time now.
I'm with you Bob, live B & M casino is best. Cute yes & I've never seen any male waiters for the ladies either?
ausguy
If you go to the smartlive homepage, click on the mini social roulette. You get a different view where you can see the dealer and wheel constantly in shot. This makes me think the live wheel is straight.
Quote from: Kingspin on Dec 22, 09:59 AM 2012
Any thoughts on the matter that the air ball is rigged.
I haven't noticed anyobdy who wins that says the air ball machines are rigged. Coincidence?
Quote from: Kingspin on Dec 22, 09:59 AM 2012
I think they could perhaps blow a little extra air into a betted pocket just enough to stop a ball landing there.
Yep, most probably they have a floor person watching your wagers and then they just push the button to make sure the ball just flops out of the Red and into the Black.
Get serious.
AD
Quote from: Turner on Dec 22, 02:30 PM 2012
But there are thousands playing the same wheel. How could they rig it so you and everyone lose.
Super casino i do trust 100 per cent. Adulay can say what he likes but i am telling you that low stakes air ball
at smart live is fishy. My own personal opinion by the way, and i don't need believers , i stand by what i say.
Adulay what do you know about the technical way this air ball works , besides even presuming you are right and the air
ball wheel is legit the video feed could be rigged in some way. End of thread i am saying nothing else on this matter.
Happy christmas adulay, and merry x mas to all forum members. Time to rest!
Quote from: Kingspin on Dec 23, 07:01 PM 2012
My own personal opinion by the way, and i don't need believers , i stand by what i say.
I so like this :thumbsup:
Well you would like it , it's a post from heaven sent >:D
Quote from: Kingspin on Dec 23, 07:06 PM 2012
Adulay what do you know about the technical way this air ball works , besides even presuming you are right and the air
ball wheel is legit the video feed could be rigged in some way. End of thread i am saying nothing else on this matter.
Happy christmas adulay, and merry x mas to all forum members. Time to rest!
Kingspin,
I'm basing my validation by watching and playing on several "air ball" machines in real B&M casinos, not online. I've looked for most of the odd behavior that several have mentioned and have not seen it to date on the Interblock Organic machines that we have locally.
With regards to online, live air ball (or live dealer) roulette wheels, I've taken the time to visually verify that what I'm seeing on the screen is, in fact, a true game and NOT a video display sent out.
How? Well, as I can see the roulette dealer in the background of the baccarat game that I'm playing, when it comes time for a shuffle, I've jumped over to the roulette game (same studio) and seen the same girl on the wheel who was on it on the first screen and the baccarat table (now in the background) was being shuffled!
And to add to this, I've run multiple computers to the individual games (roulette and baccarat) to confirm that both were running at the same time and it was most definitely live, not a video to cheat the dollar bettor on the wheel.
So, as I've "proved" it to my own personal satifaction AT THIS ONE CASINO, I believe that the game is legitimate, as is the air ball machine at my local B&M.
To anyone else reading this. Do not take anyone's word on this stuff. Check it out yourself, verify it and once YOU are convinced that it's legitimate, play it. If not, just walk away and try to document why you believe it's "rigged" against you.
Quote from: Kingspin on Dec 23, 07:06 PM 2012
End of thread i am saying nothing else on this matter.
Which really means "I have no valid data to substantiate my position on this."
Not the best way to continue with a rational discussion, eh?
AD
AD - Regarding your verification of airball at your chosen B & M casino I'm wondering how you do that?
Like speed changes to wheel & ball only need to be small to place the drop some distance from where it would land on a "naturally spun" wheel & ball. So unless you have a high speed camera with inbuilt accurate timing it's not humanly possible to detect micro speed changes?
Let me give an example using hypothetical speeds. The wheel is set spinning at 30 rpm & the ball is sent spinning in the opposite direction at 40 rpm. With the bets placed and locked the micro processor in the machine determines that the least bet area is 7 numbers centered around zero.
At nano second speeds the program tracks the wheel & ball speed via electronic switching and finely increases the wheel speed to 33.4 rpm while undetectable air holes in the ball track allow very small ball speed reductions. The physics of this are built into the program so once the speeds are co-ordinated it's a 100% certainty that it can hit a small zone on the table.
The manufacturers would have tested all this extensively. It's even possible that the program has "learn" capabilities so that each sited machine can eventually hit any chosen number most of the time?
Wheel manufacturer Cammergh features all this on their promo. site, so check that out.
The designs are becoming very sophisticated now in that the electronics are now hidden and the air wheels look identical to a live dealer wheel.
The Interblock wheel you mention, is that the model with the 18 oversize "diamonds" ball guides ? The gaps between the diamonds only cover 2 pockets ? There is a bracket with sensor above the ball track to allow the ball speed to be measured. The wheel is larger than standard with deep pockets to trap the ball as it quickly ramps down a steep apron. Very little ball bounce ?
I ask you if all they want is fair spins why do they have all these add ons that alter the results in the venues favour?
It would not suprise me if the ball had metal within it so it could be influenced by elecro magnets?
All this comes about because the air ball wheels are classed as ELECTRONIC GAMING MACHINES and are set up to give the venue a guaranteed % return. They are NOT automatic random spinning roulette wheels (wade through a gaming authorities rules sometime & you'll see what's what with all that). Just like slots that legally cheat you so do these air ball machines. They win your mind and then your money by making you think the wheels are the real deal. Granted not everybody loses but the majority will just like on live dealer games ?
It makes you wonder why they need to bother ?
I agree with you on the live dealer wheels. I have reservations about on line air ball as most only show the wheel & there's no way to varify that the spin image is true live. Even if it was, the speeds can be modded as already mentioned.
We on the forums are just a small minority that try and examine aspects that most players don't worry about. The vast majority just want to have fun and put their trust in Lady Luck.
My local casino made $2 billion profit last year. As in tennis for them it's game, set & match.
Hi All
I mainly play on SL but always the Live Wheel, and occasionally I might email a presenter live on air and straight away it's mentioned live on air, that proves there's no video running
When people are losing or they see the ball bounce in the winning pocket and drop in the pocket next door, they think its rigged, that's life and physics, get over it, I'm always moaning when the ball drops nowhere near my winning number and then drops in for the win lol
Casinos don't need to rig the wheels when the gullible human gambler will eventually lose their money
Merry Xmas
Gordon
A most informative Topic.
Thank you gents. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Is airball rigged or not?
On a live or multiuser game, how do you think they adjust the outcome just for you? Probably is the whole table covered. If 1000 bets on the table (which is normal). It does not matter where the ball falls for the casino profit.
Dark - Yes I think they are rigged. What's your MO with roulette ?
The post before yours from Gordonline is misleading as he's talking about Smart Live = SL - Real dealer, where as this thread is specific to the air ball auto wheel.
We have 2 different animals here & 2 different classes given by GA = gaming authorities. Live dealer is random spun result roulette wheel, so all betting results are accepted as they fall. Sometimes the casino may lose money due to big player wins & other times it's the reverse. Over time the house advantage will always see the casino in profit due to the zero & 35 : 1 payout instead of the true odds of 36 : 1. So every wheel cheats every player all the time on payouts.
The USA with twin zero wheels is worse because they still only pay 35 : 1 off 38 numbers.
Air ball wheels are actually classed EGMs electronic gaming machines. by GAs. This is because the results are manipulated by software & hardware. Player payout % is audited. Poker/slot machines are similar and are also EGMs. That in itself says a lot.
The SL air ball machines are made by the Cammergh roulette wheel co. If you go to their site you can see the same wheels that SL has.
While on the site look up their product > wheels & check out their RRS 360 model. RRS = random rotor speed. Another feature is air jet holes in the ball track.
They even openly state as an example that the RRS makes the ball drop in another part of the wheel. I quote " 20 dropped with RRS active instead of 4" (if non active).
Thats 1/2 the wheel away.
Not everybody loses on airball as on poker/slot machines, it's just that a hell of a lot more players lose than win.
Just as I was about to post this Ralphs comment came in. My view is that the whole table may be covered with bets but the game programs high speed processor will, at micro second speed, assess all the bet positions & choose a number or zone that gives them the best profit return. It would in this way avoid many higher bet payouts.
If they did it any other way they would go broke. I Differ with Ralphs view and maintain that it does matter where the ball falls otherwise they wouldn't rig the results.
I again remind you EGM wheels not true random hand spun wheels.
Almost every modern auto wheel uses some sort of ball or rotor manipulation, so they are not natural spins like you'd get with a normal wheel.
i cant see difference between dealer and slingshot in playtech
Try timing the rotor and ball, from start to finish, then compare data sets. You need proper tools to see the clear difference. Otherwise just carefully observe un-natural rotor and ball behavior like consistent speed when it shouldnt be, uneven deceleration and similar