Hello, my question is this. Does the Betvoyager "No Zero" roulette "Demo" version use the same randomness software that its "real play" does, or is it a predetermined set of numbers that just keeps repeating after a certain number of spins (A few thousand or so)? Thanks!
They use the same true randomness in fun mode, you can check it by using it. Set it shift it and check if the numbers were right!!
The flash game is the very same including demo, fun and real.
Thank you sir!
A hint!
bet_verify.pl (link:://satoshiroulette.com/bet-verify.bz2)
#!/usr/bin/perl -w # bet_verify.pl use strict;
use warnings;
use Digest::SHA qw(hmac_sha512_hex);
use Math::Random::MT; if(!$ARGV[0] || $ARGV[0] eq "--help" || $ARGV[0] eq "-h" || $ARGV[0] eq "/?")
{ print "usage: confirm_bet.pl \n"; exit; }
my $range=$ARGV[0]; my $secret=$ARGV[1]; my $tx=$ARGV[2];
my $seed = Digest::SHA::hmac_sha512_hex($tx, $secret);
# hash txid and secret $seed =~ s/^(.{8}).*$/$1/;
# use 1st 8 characters of hash for secret $seed = hex($seed) + 0;
# convert hex to number my $gen = Math::Random::MT->new($seed);
# seed MT my $number = int($gen->rand($range)+1);
# generate random result inside game range using seeded MT print "Result: $number\n"; exit;
To use our verify program, you must have 3 user inputs
.# perl bet_verify.pl RANGE SECRET TXIDRANGE = Number of different results a game can have, roulette it is 37 (36 numbers plus house number 0).
To verify a roulette game you would run::
# perl bet_verify.pl 37 SECRET TXIDperl bet_verify-new.pl 37 \ 4cb502865d90aec922bb1d75ebe7bbff5698f79d469c5673fea30f09d407ae65046534d59012fb35444055521f03ca554af0d4ac015818934d4b36404fcd47ad \ 7791b5ddba82d8e2398b674349746e955b71ffec554a500bb427b8ccb340ce32
Result: 33
Looks like Greek to me, haha. Though I only got through pre-algebra so....
They cheat!! I'm friggin tilted right now! I've been playing a progression system on BVNZ fun mode for a week, and didn't lose a single session!!
I always covered 66% of the board, and after every session I noted how many spins I played, and what percentage of bets I lost. I should have lost 33%, but I always lost only 28-31% in a couple hundred spins. A few times my lost bets were over 33%, but I was still able to reach my profit target.
Today I deposited 500 unit of real money, started to play the exact same way I did in fun mode with high confidence, and guess what? I lost 38% of the bets, which was enough to lose my entire roll!! Of course it could happen, but don't tell me it's coincidence.
it still can be coincidence, though i've heard complains that BV started behaving differently after playing with bigger deposits. With small deposits like penny units it usually behaved like with fun mode.
Well, anyway i gave up on RNG though it was OK recently playing BV before i stopped. But small deposits only.
i don't like any RNG. Wheel behaves differently, that's IMHO.
This is only an opinion; I have not been up the mountain!
I have played BVNZ for perhaps a million or more spins in real money mode. I no longer play in fun mode. There have been times when I could have sworn they were cheating me, but over time, things righted themselves and I went on to win. So I do not think they cheat.
The question is not whether a real wheel and an RNG behave differently. The question is can you win against either. If a person can win against RNG, why should he/she care if it is different from live? Does the dinner taste differently?
Again, it is only an opinion.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Sep 29, 10:30 PM 2013
If a person can win against RNG, why should he/she care if it is different from live? Does the dinner taste differently?
Again, it is only an opinion.
Sam
--------------
i guess it depends of style of play... if u develop a strategy trying to find a momentary imbalance in the wheel, it might not fair well in RNG play
vundarosa
ati the amount of times I've tested in play mode and win is unbeleivable...also i have sheets that has a reverse tab on them all made by nick of course...one sheet in particular at one point in real money bet against every 50/50 decision...i am convinced as soon as you up the stakes on the bot it,ll have you..that's not sour grapes.. I see it all the time...but when I'm not using the bot and being as random as i can i win sometines a lot...so figure that out...
I have no problem with rng, I believe it can be beaten with the right strategy. If I wrote down 50-50 numbers in two columns, no one could tell which one is from a real wheel, and which one is from an rng.
But the rng has to be fair. I played for real money before at 1centcasino, because I like their software, the instant cash out, and they have a minimum bet of 1 cent and an unlimited maximum! The problem is, it clearly adopted to my strategy even in fun mode. And I noticed that it isn't really random, but I would need a lot more test to be sure about that.
I trusted in BV but since I tested my method for many sessions for hundreds of spins each session and I always won, I started to be suspicious. And it crushed my dreams, when the number of lost bets jumped 7-8% in real money mode. I think I'll give it an other chance with a smaller amount, and with 5 cent units and see how it goes. I analyzed the numbers again, and actually I was doing OK for about 150 spins, then a huge imbalance came, and I couldn't recover from the massive downswing. I wanted to be prepared for this, but somehow I couldn't lose with play money. I even tested on single zero wheels a couple times, but still won.
my theory on bv is that it may give you a certain amount of fixed numbers ...but i think if it can it,ll use those fixed numbers against you...too many things happen on bv not to think otherwise when using a static bet....you need to have a bet that isn,t static...that moves around ...crushed dreams are a normal event in roulette lol....a few hundred or a couple of thousand spins isn,t much...stefs bot you can play in pennies to test cheaply if a system works just pay nick to bot it up...
Yes I'm repeating myself...
RNG is a black box. No way of knowing what is in the black box.
Real Wheel isnt a black box. Its there for all to see. A ball, a wheel, a guy spinning the ball
I would never bet RNG because there is no way of knowing how the number is generated.
At best its pure random like random.org. At worse its a guy sat there pressing no.6 when you didnt have it.
You dont know which of this best/worse range is in the black box.
So you cant trust it.
Answer these questions for a) RNG and b) real wheel
1) How was the number generated?
a) dunno
b) there...on that wheel with that ball thrown by that guy.
2) was 0 - 36 inclusive included in the random draw every time?
a) dunno
b) yes...there all on that wheel.
3) do you ever doubt the number generator?
a) yes..all the time
b) no.
Unless you can answer 1a) Yes, 2a) Yes, 3a) No, I wouldn't use RNG.
NOT A WORLD VIEW....JUST MY PERSONAL VIEW.
Turner - I agree & avoid RNG like the plague. Re: the guy pressing the button for no. 6 when you don't have it. Replace the guy with a player/profits based interactive
computer program & that's RNG in total. The casino doesn't need to win all the time. Sometimes it (the RNG casino game) lets SOME players win sometimes.
There are regulated controls on % returns to players similar to slots/poker machines. Generally the play slowly but surely milks your BR. EG with a $100 starting BR after 5 min. it's $95, 10 min. $89, 15 min. $83, 20 min. $78 & so on until 1 hr & 15 min. your $100 BR is virtually gone.
Adding up all the wins might total $97. In this way they comply with game regulations but still get all/most of your money.
As a player what you don't know (INSIDE THE BLACK BOX) is how many other players are playing the same game when you are playing ?
Perhaps the game could handle 1,000 + players all "plugged" into game ports ? All the RNG games I've seen only play you VS the animated game.
Say 500 players were playing the game simultaneously the casino can afford to say let 100 - 150 players win. They still make good profit from the other 350 - 400 losing players. It's even possible that regular players could win more often than lose & so be in overall profit.
Transpose 1 or more of those winning players as forum members & it's difficult to put a case that RNG fails. What we don't know anything about is all those silent losing players (perhaps the 350 - 400).
What we do know is that most RNG games keep on keeping on (like most casino games) simply because the profits come from more losing players than winners.
Guys
I am not saying ALL RNGs are honest. I am saying that from hundreds of hours of playing BV, I think they are honest.
As always, time will tell. If I find definitive proof one way or another, I'll let you know.
Sam
BV should offer multiplayer rng with chat option. There could be a normal table with 2 spins per minute and a fast table with 4 spins per minute. Too much dreaming. :) I've seen multiplayer rng in some online casinos before, but never tried it, and usually no one plays those. I would play a live wheel like Dublinbet, but the 2 spins per minute is such a pain, and the betting limits are also ridiculous.
Quote from: Turner on Oct 01, 06:11 AM 2013
Yes I'm repeating myself...
RNG is a black box. No way of knowing what is in the black box.
Real Wheel isnt a black box. Its there for all to see. A ball, a wheel, a guy spinning the ball
I would never bet RNG because there is no way of knowing how the number is generated.
At best its pure random like random.org. At worse its a guy sat there pressing no.6 when you didn't have it.
You don't know which of this best/worse range is in the black box.
So you can't trust it.
Answer these questions for a) RNG and b) real wheel
1) How was the number generated?
a) dunno
b) there...on that wheel with that ball thrown by that guy.
2) was 0 - 36 inclusive included in the random draw every time?
a) dunno
b) yes...there all on that wheel.
3) do you ever doubt the number generator?
a) yes..all the time
b) no.
Unless you can answer 1a) Yes, 2a) Yes, 3a) No, I wouldn't use RNG.
NOT A WORLD VIEW....JUST MY PERSONAL VIEW.
Mine also.....would like to hear someone to say that he/she is winning there.
Is anyone winning anywhere? Dublin? Smartlive?
Some fellow somewhere showed a ten-day run from BV and HE was and probably still is---winning. Someone asked him how he did it. Not a peep. You could have heard a mosquito fart.
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 01, 06:21 PM 2013You could have heard a mosquito fart.
Mosquitoes fart, but they don't yawn... link:://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080926052032AA8JkCL .
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Oct 01, 06:21 PM 2013
Is anyone winning anywhere? Dublin? Smartlive?
Some fellow somewhere showed a ten-day run from BV and HE was and probably still is---winning. Someone asked him how he did it. Not a peep. You could have heard a mosquito fart.
Sam
sam its me and am still winning and am using 0.5 units. see attachment for the last 10 days. no one asked me how, except one person through pm and i did respond. now that you are asking me i can tell what am doing, because the thought of a follow up by the video you posted on having no reds in bv in 10 day history.
my betselection process is very simple. i login to the forum, get to the main board and pick up one of the methods that come up in the first page or pick up the method from last unread replies for bet selection. this is only for bet selection.
for example, today i picked up the one posted by proofreaders on neighbours. then just from my experience, i slightly tweaked it to suit me. what proof said was bet on the number last came along with the neigbours. what i did was i ignored the number and only bet the neighbour on both side. all flat betting.
the second thing i do is progression and i make it very fluid and not fixed. i also make it very slow. in todays case i increased the bet size from 50p to $1 after my bankroll dropped below $30. well it was long but it came out winner. patience is the key.
3rd thing is i never reinvest my profit. so i take $100 and every time i go $10 above this, i used to remove it from the session money. it is a kind of mental thing. the more money i have with me the more i tend to lose. the moment i lose all $100, my plan is to get out and it never happened. i know instead of using a careless progression and losing all, i can invest another 100 and try converting into may be 1000. i can take 6 good days and 4 bad days in a 10 day span.
4th thing is switching. i switch methods quite often. 5 spins, i might be playing one method and the next 5 might be totally different. for example, while playing proof method, i also shifted to atlantis method of double dozen, then shifted to skakus method of the ec that dominates and quick to reach 5. two rules, switch whether you are winning or losing. if you are winning then switch after more spins lets say 15 or 20. when losing 5 spins is enough.
5th thing is understanding whats happening on the display. if the display says table is chopping, play for the chops or if it is the other way round, play the other way round. things happen in cycles and they do happen in short terms. people may call it gambler's fallacy and as long as i am winning i don't care what people call it.
i hope i answered you Sam. more than willing to spend more time if you have questions.
Very nice results RouletteMaster. This is what I dream of.
My second real money test on BV also ended with a 0 account balance, so I'm back to fun mode testing. I modified my system to make it even safer with a good idea I picked up on this forum. Only 2 sessions so far, but I'm satisfied with the results.
Excellent post RouletteMaster.
Good to see someone has tapped into the right way to win at BV.
Well done.
:thumbsup:
I always get this kind of randomness on BV. One number repeating 3 times within 5 spins happening all the time. And I always get one number that repeats 5-6 times in about 20 spins.
This might be normal but it makes me very nervous.
(link:://i.imgur.com/HFmQopv.jpg)
This was real money play.
Go with the flow, not against