Betvoyager "No Zero" Demo version Randomness

[CapitalX]

Hello, my question is this. Does the Betvoyager "No Zero" roulette "Demo" version use the same randomness software that its "real play" does, or is it a predetermined set of numbers that just keeps repeating after a certain number of spins (A few thousand or so)? Thanks!

[Ralph]

They use the same  true randomness in fun mode, you can check it by using it. Set it shift it and check if the numbers were right!!
The flash game is the very same including demo, fun and real.

[CapitalX]

Thank you sir!

[Ralph]

A hint!


bet_verify.pl
#!/usr/bin/perl -w # bet_verify.pl use strict;
use warnings;
use Digest::SHA qw(hmac_sha512_hex);
use Math::Random::MT; if(!$ARGV[0] || $ARGV[0] eq "--help" || $ARGV[0] eq "-h" || $ARGV[0] eq "/?")
{ print "usage: confirm_bet.pl   \n"; exit; }
my $range=$ARGV[0]; my $secret=$ARGV[1]; my $tx=$ARGV[2];
my $seed = Digest::SHA::hmac_sha512_hex($tx, $secret);       
  # hash txid and secret $seed =~ s/^(.{8}).*$/$1/;                                     
# use 1st 8 characters of hash for secret $seed = hex($seed) + 0;                                       
# convert hex to number my $gen = Math::Random::MT->new($seed);                       
  # seed MT my $number = int($gen->rand($range)+1);                       
# generate random result inside game range using seeded MT print "Result: $number\n"; exit;
To use our verify program, you must have 3 user inputs
.# perl bet_verify.pl RANGE SECRET TXIDRANGE = Number of different results a game can have, roulette it is 37 (36 numbers plus house number 0).
To verify a roulette game you would run::
# perl bet_verify.pl 37 SECRET TXIDperl bet_verify-new.pl 37 \ 4cb502865d90aec922bb1d75ebe7bbff5698f79d469c5673fea30f09d407ae65046534d59012fb35444055521f03ca554af0d4ac015818934d4b36404fcd47ad \ 7791b5ddba82d8e2398b674349746e955b71ffec554a500bb427b8ccb340ce32
Result: 33

[CapitalX]

Looks like Greek to me, haha. Though I only got through pre-algebra so....

[ati]

They cheat!! I'm friggin tilted right now! I've been playing a progression system on BVNZ fun mode for a week, and didn't lose a single session!!
I always covered 66% of the board, and after every session I noted how many spins I played, and what percentage of bets I lost. I should have lost 33%, but I always lost only 28-31% in a couple hundred spins. A few times my lost bets were over 33%, but I was still able to reach my profit target.
Today I deposited 500 unit of real money, started to play the exact same way I did in fun mode with high confidence, and guess what? I lost 38% of the bets, which was enough to lose my entire roll!! Of course it could happen, but don't tell me it's coincidence.

[iggiv]

it still can be coincidence, though i've heard complains that BV started behaving differently after playing with bigger deposits. With small deposits like penny units it usually behaved like with fun mode.

Well, anyway i gave up on RNG though it was OK recently playing BV before i stopped. But small deposits only.

[iggiv]

i don't like any RNG. Wheel behaves differently, that's IMHO.

[TwoCatSam]

This is only an opinion; I have not been up the mountain!

I have played BVNZ for perhaps a million or more spins in real money mode.  I no longer play in fun mode.  There have been times when I could have sworn they were cheating me, but over time, things righted themselves and I went on to win.  So I do not think they cheat.

The question is not whether a real wheel and an RNG behave differently.  The question is can you win against either.  If a person can win against RNG, why should he/she care if it is different from live?  Does the dinner taste differently?

Again, it is only an opinion.

Sam

[vundarosa]

If a person can win against RNG, why should he/she care if it is different from live?  Does the dinner taste differently?

Again, it is only an opinion.

Sam

--------------
i guess it depends of style of play... if u develop a strategy trying to find a momentary imbalance in the wheel, it might not fair well in RNG play

vundarosa

[6th-sense]

ati the amount of times I've tested in play mode and win is unbeleivable...also i have sheets that has a reverse tab on them all made by nick of course...one sheet in particular at one point in real money bet against every 50/50 decision...i am convinced as soon as you up the stakes on the bot it,ll have you..that's not sour grapes.. I see it all the time...but when I'm not using the bot and being as random as i can i win sometines a lot...so figure that out...

[ati]

I have no problem with rng, I believe it can be beaten with the right strategy. If I wrote down 50-50 numbers in two columns, no one could tell which one is from a real wheel, and which one is from an rng.
But the rng has to be fair. I played for real money before at 1centcasino, because I like their software, the instant cash out, and they have a minimum bet of 1 cent and an unlimited maximum! The problem is, it clearly adopted to my strategy even in fun mode. And I noticed that it isn't really random, but I would need a lot more test to be sure about that.
I trusted in BV but since I tested my method for many sessions for hundreds of spins each session and I always won, I started to be suspicious. And it crushed my dreams, when the number of lost bets jumped 7-8% in real money mode. I think I'll give it an other chance with a smaller amount, and with 5 cent units and see how it goes. I analyzed the numbers again, and actually I was doing OK for about 150 spins, then a huge imbalance came, and I couldn't recover from the massive downswing. I wanted to be prepared for this, but somehow I couldn't lose with play money. I even tested on single zero wheels a couple times, but still won.

[6th-sense]

my theory on bv is that it may give you a certain amount of fixed numbers ...but i think if it can it,ll use those fixed numbers against you...too many things happen on bv not to think otherwise when using a static bet....you need to have a bet that isn,t static...that moves around ...crushed dreams are a normal event in roulette lol....a few hundred or a couple of thousand spins isn,t much...stefs bot you can play in pennies to test cheaply if a system works just pay nick to bot it up...

[Turner]

Yes I'm repeating myself...

RNG is a black box. No way of knowing what is in the black box.

Real Wheel isnt a black box. Its there for all to see. A ball, a wheel, a guy spinning the ball

I would never bet RNG because there is no way of knowing how the number is generated.

At best its pure random like random.org. At worse its a guy sat there pressing no.6 when you didnt have it.

You dont know which of this best/worse range is in the black box.

So you cant trust it.

Answer these questions for a) RNG and b) real wheel

1) How was the number generated?
   a) dunno
   b) there...on that wheel with that ball thrown by that guy.

2) was 0 - 36 inclusive included in the random draw every time?
   a) dunno
   b) yes...there all on that wheel.

3)  do you ever doubt the number generator? 
a) yes..all the time
b) no.

Unless you can answer 1a) Yes, 2a) Yes, 3a) No,  I wouldn't use RNG.

NOT A WORLD VIEW....JUST MY PERSONAL VIEW.

[ausguy]

Turner - I agree & avoid RNG like the plague. Re: the guy pressing the button for no. 6 when you don't have it. Replace the guy with a player/profits based interactive

computer program & that's RNG in total. The casino doesn't need to win all the time. Sometimes it (the RNG casino game) lets SOME players win sometimes.

There are regulated controls on % returns to players similar to slots/poker machines. Generally the play slowly but surely milks your BR. EG with a $100 starting BR after 5 min. it's $95, 10 min. $89, 15 min. $83, 20 min. $78 & so on until 1 hr & 15 min. your $100 BR is virtually gone.

Adding up all the wins might total $97. In this way they comply with game regulations but still get all/most of your money.

As a player what you don't know (INSIDE THE BLACK BOX) is how many other players are playing the same game when you are playing ?

Perhaps the game could handle 1,000 + players all "plugged" into game ports ?  All the RNG games I've seen only play you VS the animated game.

Say 500 players were playing the game simultaneously the casino can afford to say let 100 - 150 players win. They still make good profit from the other 350 - 400 losing players.  It's even possible that regular players could win more often than lose & so be in overall profit.

Transpose 1 or more of those winning players as forum members & it's difficult to put a case that RNG fails. What we don't know anything about is all those silent losing players (perhaps the 350 - 400).

What we do know is that most RNG games keep on keeping on (like most casino games) simply because the profits come from more losing players than winners.