Raymanz tweak...deserves new thread.....
Bet against previous 3 dozens
only when previous 3 are unique
123 qualifies so bet against
122 does not qualify
3 tests against previous 3....only when unique
bravo ray for a nice tweak to grassroots
no losses at all so far
fewer betting opportunities but more confidence
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 10, 05:41 PM 2015
3 tests against previous 3....only when unique
bravo ray for a nice tweak to grassroots
no losses at all so far
fewer betting opportunities but more confidence
Progression?
Possibly the 10 losses then double the bet
+10 or -30 stop-loss
Quote from: thelaw on Dec 10, 05:50 PM 2015
Progression?
Possibly the 10 losses then double the bet
+10 or -30 stop-loss
i think he only plays the 1st bet win or lose. im doing all 3 with a 1 3 9
i know i know.....the sledgehammer.....went through alllll my charts...never once did i see 3 uniques repeat the exact same way
no bet if 122, only if all 3 unique
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 10, 05:51 PM 2015
i think he only plays the 1st bet win or lose. im doing all 3 with a 1 3 9
i know i know.....the sledgehammer.....went through alllll my charts...never once did i see 3 uniques repeat the exact same way
no bet if 122, only if all 3 unique
Understood.
Have you found any situations where his (-10 then double the bet) would have ended with a stop loss of 30 units?
i play as i would any mini game
bet 1, win GREAT sit out the next 2 spins
lose?
bet 2, 3 units, win, GREAT sit out next spin
lose?
bet 3, 9 units, win, GREAT. bet next spin if all three were unique
lose? havent yet
27 mini games is roughly almost 2 hours....with $20 chips, makin some decent bread
this was presented by ray early on in the grassroots thread
he said why dont you take these then beta aginst them not to repeat
i should have listened and tested it then
123
132
213
231
312
321
to normy 2000
in the original grasroots thread
you stated that these combos will hit once every 1 to 2 hours and repeat every 4 to 5 hours per combo
123
132
213
231
312
321
look at the charts above in this thread....
per 100 spins i have 5 to 6 betting opportunities....there are 6 possible triggers (that is equivalent to about 5 to 6 every 100 spins) (1 per 100 times 6 possible combos, 5 to 6 betting opportunities per hour if your math is right).....good work
looks like your math was spot on.....if you add columns as well its more oppurtunities but whatever
you stated the dozen unique combo will happen once an hour per combo...so credit where credits due
this is what i seek to take advantage of and will continue to test...negative nancys will come but that is ok
normy you did some graph simulating in grassroots can you do that here based on this idea? thanks!
Ok, I did some testing with this. I started to get a little bit bored with the tracking so I added pinwheel, but only betting on that if the dozen and columns don't have a trigger, because I'm not that fast to play 24 numbers. But right after I added pinwheel the triggers came on dozens and columns almost all the time. :)
A slow start but busy end.
I upload two images. The first is how I have bet before, play the first two bet and skip the third bet. The other one I followed Denzie's method by flat bet. The end result were similar (+8 units) but I think it's safe to say that denzie's method is better since here we could take three losses instead of just one loss with mine.
Nice long test
Yes ray tweak is boring but works
The only reason i use the word grailish with these is becauae we know we will see one or two losses. So if we prepare and know how to deal with it we can overcome it. this isnt a system where we may lose half the bets we place. We are winning over 90 percent of them
I still think a larger unit size for recovery is the way to go. Lose? Up the unit size and recover next mini game. My 2 cents
just to point this out. All of your triggers won 100 percent if played out 1 3 9
None of your uniques were a complete repeat. You played the 1st two which is fine. But if you played 3rd bet it all won
As much as I want to make that third bet, I'm to scared of doing it. Even though this and the previous tests with this tweak would have won them all, it's still not a matter of if it will happen, but when. Hopefully when it happen, my BR would be high enough to take that loss. :'(
The method Denzie showed us you have, if you're not doubling your bet after -10, 13 chances of winning on the first bet for 13 mini games before you get to 26, otherwise 9 if you double it. To me, that odds seems to survive in more long term than 1-3-9. :thumbsup:
Also what about zero? Might want to cover that thing.
I've been using the original Grassroots system for about a month now (only playing a few games each evening) on live euro wheels for very small stakes. 3 spin mini games betting against 1 2 3 dozens.
£20 starting bank 10p stakes - my bank was up to £40 so I played for the first time last night with 50p stakes but hit the run from hell as soon as I joined the table:
2
19
31
9
22
27
5
0
31
Equates to 1 2 3, 1 2 3, 1 0 3 (No insurance on zero as euro wheel).
I have managed to recover from single 1 2 3 hits in the past by increasing my stakes for the next few spins (1 3 9 progression), however last night I got killed as I tried to recover twice and paid the price.
Bank now back to £20 - not big bucks but the principal shows that these killer combo's are out there and do hit you eventually.
With hind sight I should have stopped after the second 1 2 3 and changed tables but in the back of your mind you keep saying 'what are the chances of losing again........................!'
Guidance/comments welcomed!
Nick
Quote from: Nick-the-Greek on Dec 11, 05:03 AM 2015
I've been using the original Grassroots system for about a month now (only playing a few games each evening) on live euro wheels for very small stakes. 3 spin mini games betting against 1 2 3 dozens.
£20 starting bank 10p stakes - my bank was up to £40 so I played for the first time last night with 50p stakes but hit the run from hell as soon as I joined the table:
2
19
31
9
22
27
5
0
31
Equates to 1 2 3, 1 2 3, 1 0 3 (No insurance on zero as euro wheel).
I have managed to recover from single 1 2 3 hits in the past by increasing my stakes for the next few spins (1 3 9 progression), however last night I got killed as I tried to recover twice and paid the price.
Bank now back to £20 - not big bucks but the principal shows that these killer combo's are out there and do hit you eventually.
With hind sight I should have stopped after the second 1 2 3 and changed tables but in the back of your mind you keep saying 'what are the chances of losing again........................!'
Guidance/comments welcomed!
Nick
123123 will happen every 2000 spins. So one month to see it makes sense
With bankroll to withstand a recovery you will win 95 percent of time. With bankroll to recoup from back to back loss you will win 100 percent
I have been warning about 0
103
023
120
Are all killers. And you saw it happen.
Insurance on 0 is a must!!
Please always insurance chip on 0
2 nights ago i practiced 25 mini games. Alternating between dozens and columns
Mini game 1 i had 023
Mini game 2 i had 0BC
You MUST bet 0 because it happens
Also just to clarify
Using 10 cents you got from 20 to 40?
Starting bank was £20 and I used 10p stakes - when it reached £30 I doubled stakes to 20p and then from £40 bank I doubled again to 40p stakes last night which is when I got HIT!
A real grind with small values but so glad I wasn't using £10 stakes!
Nick
Quote from: Nick-the-Greek on Dec 11, 08:14 AM 2015
Starting bank was £20 and I used 10p stakes - when it reached £30 I doubled stakes to 20p and then from £40 bank I doubled again to 40p stakes last night which is when I got HIT!
A real grind with small values but so glad I wasn't using £10 stakes!
Nick
You had a major increase using small stakes
That speaks volumes
My main plan is to play every mini game. With smalllllll units. After 1 loss recovery unit size. After the very rare 2 in a row loss another recover unit size
Doable with small units imo
In raymanz tweak id use large units
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 10, 08:30 PM 2015
to normy 2000
in the original grasroots thread
. . . BLA BLA BLA ......
normy you did some graph simulating in grassroots can you do that here based on this idea? thanks!
I'll try next week if i find free time. 8)
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 11, 08:30 AM 2015
My main plan is to play every mini game.
RG can you confirm I got right what mini game presents? BTW why it has to be mini?
Is it short exposure on one betting location and then switching on the other independently of result from the previous one? Or it is matter how previous betting cycle ended?
Or it is something with "switching the wheels" after some time?
Quote from: Drazen on Dec 11, 01:16 PM 2015
RG can you confirm I got right what mini game presents? BTW why it has to be mini?
Is it short exposure on one betting location and then switching on the other independently of result from the previous one? Or it is matter how previous betting cycle ended?
Or it is something with "switching the wheels" after some time?
A mini game is what i consider 3 spin sets
We dont bet on a rolling basis. If win on step 1 of mini game sit out next 2 spins and wait for next mini game. If win on step 2 sit out next spin. If win on step 3 begin right after
If you look at my testing charts wherever you see a green no more bets in that row we wait
Strategy is not for everyone. Im just being transparent with my tests and promoting it because it is working
If you dont like the strategy i respect your opinion. And that is all
With raymanz tweak we only play a mini game against previous mini game when all 3 dozens were unique. The tweak yields much less betting opportunities but its pretty damn good
So if mini game was
213
Next mini game we bet against 213 from occuring because it was unique
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 11, 01:39 PM 2015
213
Next mini game we bet against 213 from occuring because it was unique
Why does it being unique make any difference whatever ? Can you give me a reason ?
Or looking at it another way why do you not bet when it isn't unique ? Can you give me a reason ?
Same question, different side of the coin......
O0
Quote from: ddarko on Dec 11, 02:07 PM 2015
Why does it being unique make any difference whatever ? Can you give me a reason ?
Or looking at it another way why do you not bet when it isn't unique ? Can you give me a reason ?
Same question, different side of the coin......
O0
By observing that if the past 3 dozens are unique it is rare for them to repeat in the exact same pattern. Observstions
I dont think anyone testing has seen it yet
Being unique absolutely makes a difference
Somehow it was explained math says betting against 3 unique repeating makes better mathematical sense
Playing this way averages 5 to 6 betting opportunities an hour and seems safer in the realm of double dozens strategies
123
132
213
231
312
321
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 11, 02:16 PM 2015
Being unique absolutely makes a difference
Somehow it was explained math says betting against 3 unique repeating makes better mathematical sense
Okay, rights thxs :thumbsup:
where can I find this bit of maths that explains it pls ?
O0
Soemthing along the lines what ego stated in grassroots
If you play against a unique 3 repeating you have 1 in 27 chance of winning. Something like that. Check the grassroots thread. Have you tested this at all?
I have about 25 charts with 75 spins each. No unique mini game reapeated. Not one
It's all just a gambler's fallacy. You're playing very dangerous bets. If your progression is 1 3 9, then even if it wins 27 "mini games" in a row, 28th loss will break you even. 123123 has the same chance of appearing as 121321 or any other pattern. Eventually you will bust, so only play this system with the money you can afford to lose.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 11, 02:22 PM 2015
Soemthing along the lines what ego stated in grassroots
If you play against a unique 3 repeating you have 1 in 27 chance of winning. Something like that. Check the grassroots thread. Have you tested this at all?
I have about 25 charts with 75 spins each. No unique mini game reapeated. Not one
I will have to try and re find that. I quote it later if I find it.
Nope I haven't tested it at all, I didn't test the grassroots because I couldn't see the an advantage with it.
The same applies with this. Plus I flat bet, no progressions for me.
I asked for a reason because I believe there needs to be a reason why ppl bet what they bet, as
in why it wins. That's a v v v difficult thing to find.....
It wasn't a shot across the bows at ya :thumbsup:
O0
Quote from: ddarko on Dec 11, 02:30 PM 2015
I will have to try and re find that. I quote it later if I find it.
Nope I haven't tested it at all, I didn't test the grassroots because I couldn't see the an advantage with it.
The same applies with this. Plus I flat bet, no progressions for me.
I asked for a reason because I believe there needs to be a reason why ppl bet what they bet, as
in why it wins. That's a v v v difficult thing to find.....
It wasn't a shot across the bows at ya :thumbsup:
O0
I am finding unique ways to play
I think playing this way is better then just walking up to a table and betting any 2 dozens
I believe there are patterns that are rare that we can exploit. If when the past 3 decisions are unique a repeat right after is rare ill play against it!
And if this fails ill die tryin
But this whole grassroot idea and variations are promising to me
All my tests have been winners. No other method ive teted has been this good. Most methods have good and have bad. This has shown nothing but good. The only other member really posting tests is celescliff and he is having the same results
So gamblers fallacy or not im content with the results so far
You aren't granted the privelage of criticizing though, all you do is ask questions. You dont post methods or style of your play. Gloves arent off, im just sayin....you dont post how you play because you feel members dont deserve it. So keep the criticizing to a minimum. I post strategies and tests. Need more doing THAT
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 11, 02:36 PM 2015
You aren't granted the privelage of criticizing though, all you do is ask questions. You dont post methods or style of your play. Gloves arent off, im just sayin....you dont post how you play because you feel members dont deserve it. So keep the criticizing to a minimum.
I'll stop asking questions when the Mods tell me too.....
I know you don't like ppl telling you things won't work, guess you will just have to find out the hard way.....
O0
Quote from: ddarko on Dec 11, 02:43 PM 2015
I'll stop asking questions when the Mods tell me too.....
I know you don't like ppl telling you things won't work, guess you will just have to find out the hard way.....
O0
No no. I dont mind that. As long as their tests back it up. If i test 2000 spins by hand and it works why would i listen to someone who says it wont work with no test to back it up. Silly
And i dont mind questions
I wasnt attacking you. Im just saying.....you shouldnt criticize too much when you dont contribute.....not just you. Anybody
I am glad you are trying to be transparent with your tests as that is the only way to go. It is not that I don't like this particular bet for some reason or another. Here I would rather say that I don't like playing martingales for real money on not enough tested bets, and we shared opinions how much triggers that should be.
As most of every other new roulette players my first loss with real money was because I was using martingale on not enough tested bet selection. I was playing single dozen then. I ll never forget the thrill of thinking how smart I was, and already planned on what I will spend easy earned money. Thrill of having ATM in your living room that can never be emptied.
A bit later as most of every new roulette students I come up with system on single numbers. This time I am smarter I thought. My plan was to load my bank with enormous amount of units and waiting for the first shot, being ready to withstand brutal and long fight, needed just a first single shot whenever it comes.So it says, again, martingale. But this time, the trap is so shrewdly set up even for so invincible game I said. Those numbers were so called sleepers which I thought are governed by law of the third. ( word thought because today I don't use those terms anymore. No sleeping numbers for me and "law of the third" is not actually a law. More consequence of mathematics in this game, and that is governed by some other laws in nature)
It was posted on roulette forum and it raised some dust because first tests were all incredibly positive and it seemed it is what roulette forum world was waiting for... My friend Niksa started to play it for real money putting about 400â,¬ in casino I think. In 2-3 months of every day play he earned about 1500 â,¬; If I remember right with starting bet of 0.10â,¬ on single number. Then the first loss came which took almost half of earnings, as progression was very steep and expensive. But we said who cares, total loss is so rare that we wont even care for that. By calculated probability for us to lose, we thought it will happen once in a blue moon and we will earn much more till that day. We couldn't see this anyhow else then profitable.
But second loss came much faster then we predicted, and bad and very very nerve strained sessions started to coming more often for anyone's taste. We were tweaking the method in any way we could think to prevent such situations and in the middle of one tweak, the final loss appeared from nowhere >:D That wiped everything invested till then...
Nausea while your so expensive (and of course smart) bombs paid with your so hard earned money are missing your targets is something what just can't be explained. You have to feel that to understand, but by all means don't try :o
Ok I could say much more to this, but for gods sake it is about time to end the post.
Drazen, people are smart enough to identify themselves with the moral here, you don't have to go to even greater extent. And proof for that they have in your posts.
Anyway for some reason even having said all that, I am still in fear that I didn't contributed enough here. So lets try to do something more to that. Anyhow from perspective of method advocates I think this should be.
I am sorry I haven't read the whole thread about this idea. Don't resent me. It is now close to 60 pages. Quite enough for one thread.
I don't know have you tried the idea of starting to play against all dozens same for example? Like 111, 222, or 333. You might find that this hits also very good :)
I hope I didn't stole the show.
Cheers
Quote from: Drazen on Dec 11, 03:14 PM 2015
I am glad you are trying to be transparent with your tests as that is the only way to go. It is not that I don't like this particular bet for some reason or another. Here I would rather say that I don't like playing martingales for real money on not enough tested bets, and we shared opinions how much triggers that should be.
As most of every other new roulette players my first loss with real money was because I was using martingale on not enough tested bet selection. I was playing single dozen then. I ll never forget the thrill of thinking how smart I was, and already planned on what I will spend easy earned money. Thrill of having ATM in your living room that can never be emptied.
A bit later as most of every new roulette students I come up with system on single numbers. This time I am smarter I thought. My plan was to load my bank with enormous amount of units and waiting for the first shot, being ready to withstand brutal and long fight, needed just a first single shot whenever it comes.So it says, again, martingale. But this time, the trap is so shrewdly set up even for so invincible game I said. Those numbers were so called sleepers which I thought are governed by law of the third. ( word thought because today I don't use those terms anymore. No sleeping numbers for me and "law of the third" is not actually a law. More consequence of mathematics in this game, and that is governed by some other laws in nature)
It was posted on roulette forum and it raised some dust because first tests were all incredibly positive and it seemed it is what roulette forum world was waiting for... My friend Niksa started to play it for real money putting about 400€ in casino I think. In 2-3 months of every day play he earned about 1500€ If I remember right with starting bet of 0.10€ on single number. Then the first loss came which took almost half of earnings, as progression was very steep and expensive. But we said who cares, total loss is so rare that we wont even care for that. By calculated probability for us to lose, we thought it will happen once in a blue moon and we will earn much more till that day. We couldn't see this anyhow else then profitable.
But second loss came much faster then we predicted, and bad and very very nerve strained sessions started to coming more often for anyone's taste. We were tweaking the method in any way we could think to prevent such situations and in the middle of one tweak, the final lose appeared from nowhere >:D That wiped everything invested till then...
Nausea while your so expensive (and of course smart) bombs paid with your so hard earned money are missing your targets is something what just can't be explained. You have to feel that to understand, but by all means don't try :o
Ok I could say much more to this, but for gods sake it is about time to end the post.
Drazen, people are smart enough to identify themselves with the moral here, you don't have to go to even greater extent. And proof for that they have in your posts.
Anyway for some reason having said all that I am in fear that I didn't contributed enough here. So lets try to do something more to that. Anyhow from perspective of method advocates it should be.
I am sorry I haven't read the whole thread about this idea. Don't resent me. It is now close to 60 pages. Quite enough for one thread.
I don't know have you tried the idea of starting to play against all dozens same for example? Like 111, 222, or 333. You might find that this hits also very good :)
I hope I didn't stole the show.
Cheers
Drazen im at work right now but will read in depth later
Thanks
Rich
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 11, 02:22 PM 2015
Soemthing along the lines what ego stated in grassroots
I've gone through all the posts from ego in that thread & cannot see anything about uniques being different ?
If you can find it when you have finished work, I'd appreciate that. I'd luv there to be a reason.....
O0
Quote from: ddarko on Dec 11, 03:51 PM 2015
I've gone through all the posts from ego in that thread & cannot see anything about uniques being different ?
If you can find it when you have finished work, I'd appreciate that. I'd luv there to be a reason.....
O0
A reason for what?
re posts #20 thru #23
O0
Quote from: ddarko on Dec 11, 03:58 PM 2015
re posts #20 thru #23
O0
Because if i put one hand on my head, spin around 4 times, and bet that way, it wins EVERYTIME. Crazy, really
Oh and the minutehand on the clock must be between 1 and 6
ive done everything you sugges....t hand on head.... spin 4 time.....s i even bought new white shoes how come im not winning?
Quote from: keepontryin on Dec 11, 04:15 PM 2015
ive done everything you sugges....t hand on head.... spin 4 time.....s i even bought new white shoes how come im not winning?
You didnt win at all on raymanz tweak after 3 uniques only? Buy new white shoes
All jokes aside though. If more people would test rays tweak and post that would be cool
Ill do more this weekend
Much much less betting opportunities. Maybe 5 an hour. But can increase by playing columns alongside
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 11, 04:17 PM 2015
You didnt win at all on raymanz tweak after 3 uniques only? Buy new white shoes
uh, I thought starting a new thread would help re working toward a common goal, not repeating the confirmation bias in the other thread.
Tacwell,
I made new thread because raymanz tweak deserved it
We will see 5 to 6 unique mini games an hour and a repeat of a unique roughly every 5 hours. Put it this way. If we see 5 unique an hour what are the chances 2 of those will be identical AND back to back? THAT is the bet
So the bet is a good bet
Ddarko wants me to EXPLAIN that. No need to. You either see it or you dont.
Tacwell if you are truly interested go get some real live spins from real spins thread and see in sets of 3 how many uniques we get per 100 spins. Take the 100 spins and put it into 3 spin mini games. And you will see 5 to 6 uniques. So simple!
66,000 spins has a unique repeat once every 2200 spins. Divide that by 6 uniques. Once every 350 spins a unique repeats in that lot of 66k. 350 spins takes about 5 hours. It makes sense.
Exploit it! And use money management when the time comes!
The numbers and proof are there. It was what happened in 66k spins and its what happened in my tests as you can see. We will see 5 betting opportunities an hour
If you want to take advantage of that and play it then please do. If not, no harm done just dont play it. I can only do so much. By providing the test results and the facts is all i can do
It took nick a month to see a unique repeat. He saw 123123103. The ONLY reason he broke even and did not profit is because he did not have insurance on 0. He doubled his bankroll. The 3rd repeat killed it for him because of insurance 0. I hate to say it but i told ya so. 0 will bite. I dont want to see anyone lose. Not even ddarko.
So i will say again: if 5 betting opportunities an hour with a chance of a loss every 4 to 5 hours isnt good for you then do not play it. It isnt for everyone.
I tested this under a few games ive played over the last few weeks and i had one repeat on the dozens.
Just an FYI
Ive been playing on paper a variations of the 123 or repeats trying to see what i'm more comfortable with.
Last night i played 2 games of 60 spins but i played against 123(all 6 showing up) and it went well. $.25 and i made $30 on the actual roullette machine not airball. I'll try to post a pic of my scribble scrabble lmao. I hate 0 about 3 times in game 1 and 2 times in game 2 lol
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Dec 11, 05:25 PM 2015
I tested this under a few games ive played over the last few weeks and i had one repeat on the dozens.
Just an FYI
Ive been playing on paper a variations of the 123 or repeats trying to see what i'm more comfortable with.
Last night i played 2 games of 60 spins but i played against 123(all 6 showing up) and it went well. $.25 and i made $30 on the actual roullette machine not airball. I'll try to post a pic of my scribble scrabble lmao. I hate 0 about 3 times in game 1 and 2 times in game 2 lol
Thanks for posting. I appreciate it
With that one loss still in good profit
As expected a positive test result
No test results from those that say it cant work though. Funny.
Good job!
Oh and perfect example why 0 is important. Saved u twice.
Quick message for thelaw
I see now why your moving target was successful
With 5 uniques an hour what are the chances we are going to hit it right on target? See what i mean
Quote from: MoneyT101 on Dec 11, 05:25 PM 2015
I tested this under a few games ive played over the last few weeks and i had one repeat on the dozens.
Just an FYI
Ive been playing on paper a variations of the 123 or repeats trying to see what i'm more comfortable with.
Last night i played 2 games of 60 spins but i played against 123(all 6 showing up) and it went well. $.25 and i made $30 on the actual roullette machine not airball. I'll try to post a pic of my scribble scrabble lmao. I hate 0 about 3 times in game 1 and 2 times in game 2 lol
Look at all those first round finishes!!! :thumbsup:
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 11, 05:41 PM 2015
Quick message for thelaw
I see now why your moving target was successful
With 5 uniques an hour what are the chances we are going to hit it right on target? See what i mean
It might just give us more betting opportunities.
At this point, even with waiting for the combo to appear, I'm seeing a nice pattern of first-round finishes.
The only question now is: what progression to use??? :question:
So far I've seen too many anomalies for a straight Marti, but perhaps a modified Marti where you wait to be down a certain number of units, then increase bet.
Quote from: thelaw on Dec 11, 05:50 PM 2015
It might just give us more betting opportunities.
At this point, even with waiting for the combo to appear, I'm seeing a nice pattern of first-round finishes.
The only question now is: what progression to use??? :question:
So far I've seen too many anomalies for a straight Marti, but perhaps a modified Marti where you wait to be down a certain number of units, then increase bet.
i think the best progression for this is the marty
BUT
a small marty
a 139 with smallll smallll units
on a loss, next mini game use recovery size.
on the rare rare event we lose 2 in a row which will happen every 300 or so spins, have another bankroll for increased unit recovery size
1 main bankroll
1 recovery
2nd recovery
what does this do? allows us to keep going.....small units, recovery 1 and 2
2nd recovery we would tap into ever so rarely
im all about in and out. some guys want to drag it out and grind. hey thats what she said
its like a start system but much less crazy...star was like 3 different bankrolls in the thousands...too crazy
but some CATS love the star
anti progression guys this method may not be up your alley so stay far away....but i know a solid bet when i see one
no real money until you TEST
What BR would you recommend?
Quote from: celescliff on Dec 11, 06:12 PM 2015
What BR would you recommend?
my proposed method is for the guys playing 10p online
i dont have that luxury. my casino minimums are $10 per dozen....unless i drive 2 hours then i can play $5 per dozen
id play the recoveries to win back half the chips lost
standard --------- .10 / .30 / .90
recovery 1 --------1.30 / 3.90 / 11.70
recovery 2 --------18.20 / 54.60 / 163.80 <------------VERY RARE
you only get to recovery 2 if a unique repeats 3 times.... UNLIKELY
123 just happened it is UNIQUE so now bet against 123
123 standard progression, if lose then.....
123 recovery 1, if lose then.....
123 recovery 2
getting to recovery 2 would be like lightning striking the same place 3 times
you should get to recovery 1 only once every 5 hours
i cannot play this with my minimums, so this weekend i have to create a way to recover.........maybe i can do a recovery 1 and stay at that unit size for several mini games
my ultimate goal is to play with a 2 to 4 unit win goal and leave using $25 units....$650 bankroll....i hope to be out before a repeat happens
some say hit and run makes no difference...does it? if you go and play for 2 wins then leave how likely is it to hit the loss?
INSURANCE ON ZERO IS A MUST
honestly i think if people have good intentions and work together towards a common goal great things can happen
i will admit grassroots was NOT my idea. this tweak was not my idea. i am ashamed that i dont have good ideas such as these
but i am smart enough to recognize a good idea.
as winkel says, GUT is not a system. it is a way to play to make an informed decision
this is as well. you see a unique and you dive in. 3 unique dozens in a row is NOT common. no matter how you slice the cake it is a rather "rare" event you will see it a few times an hour....just with GUT we see this and we can make an informed decision to say ok lets dive in because 2 uniques in a row is rare
NOTHING is guaranteed....one member may go in and lose 10 times in a row where another member will play for 5 years and not have a single hiccup
this game is tough....it was designed to not be beaten...
BUT we can follow certain patterns and decide on how to bet to increase odds
the internet is full of negative people who are not happy and have cruel intentions and will seek to deligtamize a strategy without ever testing themselves or post fake tests. some people are covert in delitamizing a strategy and ask questions in a wise ass manner for no reason at all, they never have intentions to test the said strategy, they just ask questions to get themselves off
test yourself and you will see this method is worthy of what we seek
what else can we ask for in such a game?
I will play more on betfair starting next week. They have several tables with low stakes where i can be in the lobby and track numbers. Once a trigger comes i join the table and play. I will post my play later on. :thumbsup:
See you next week.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 11, 07:24 PM 2015
what else can we ask for in such a game?
I can't say for others, but I am asking not to bet 1638 units at some point just to break even. But actually not breaking even... Risking total over 2.5K of units :o And how much we have to bet on zeros to compensate such bets?
My advice is for you to do a bit of very simple math here to encourage people see what they are maybe missing.
Lets say you have a nasty session where you will come to 2nd step of your recovery phase 2 betting 540 units and now two zeros hit. (Later you can try for double zero wheel where you could have 3 or more zeros very easy) And just after that you got a hit on dozens. How much you had to bet on zeros in total to compensate those losses? And how many units you are in plus after you got hit on dozens after such situation?
Try to show people how much they will earn in this and similar scenarios which will happen. I think that might turn naysayer into believers of this method.
Cheers
morning test against previous 3 when unique before a little christmas shopping
BOOOOORINGGGGG. only 3 betting opportunities (edit, i missed one, there was 4, right after the last win of 123, was a trigger)
must play columns at same time....just not enough betting opportunities...BUT HEY consistent winner
you can be happy with 3 units every hour and a half i guess...just kind of slow....unless large unit size then win your one unit and be done
A lot of winners
On those sets of numbers tho rich
Betting 1,1 3,3.
Quote from: KCIN012 on Dec 12, 01:26 PM 2015
A lot of winners
On those sets of numbers tho rich
Betting 1,1 3,3.
Yes you sre right
Im beginning to see that anytime you have 3 uniques in a row bet that the pattern wont repeat
May not need sets of 3 for this like on the chart. Anytime see a unique like 231 bet against it even if not on same mini game
Ill post some tests later
Example
Row 4 you see 3. Then a 1. Then row 5 a 2. 312 trigger
ok so you guys want more betting opportunities, this is what i did to get them.....
Look at my chart first 6 came out
15 32 21 232
19 35 23 232
I took the last number and started a new pattern of 3
21 19 35 223
23 2
I played it at the same time on the roulette machine in the casino and it did pretty good, gives you more plays
I posted my sheet so you can see how i played it. I was using the 123 system from the old topic. I did a few of my own changes to it.
I was playing $.25 cents and got to $19.50 mainly because of the zeros.
My betting was horrible i was doing 33 55 88 and 1 chip on zero always, dont ask why, i went there with no plan and i know i was losing money on the progression, zeros kept me in the game.
But look at the win pattern, and maybe the ideas i used might help someone. Anytime singles came i would switch and just bet against it instead of following the pattern i was betting against.
Sorry for any bad grammar lol....Happy winnings!!!!
thanks for testing
im glad to see positive results...
i re-did my test from this morning....this morning i played as mini games, only if a full mini game was unique id bet...i had 4 triggers
playing this new way i have 11 triggers in one hour. significantly more. what i did was whenever there were 3 unique dozens i would then bet against it. first bet won everytime. it didnt matter if they were in the same mini game. at any point there were 3 uniques id bet even if it went into next mini game
112
3 TRIGGER
i was going to use colors. green if won on 1st try. blue if won on 2nd step. purple if won on 3rd step. only greens.
good news
it is obvious that anytime you have 3 uniques betting against the unique repeating is a good bet selection
EDIT: ONE MISTAKE. ONE BET WON ON 2ND ATTEMPT, ALL OTHERS ON FIRST. SO SHOULD BE ONE SHADE OF BLUE
heres another test. betting dozens and columns at the same time. ANYTIME a unique pattern, bet against it
green won on first attempt
blue won on step 2 of prog
purple won on step 3 of progression
significantly more betting opportunities. id never stick around that long. but another positive test
it looks slightly complicated on paper but at the wheel should be very simple...
at this point i have not seen a loss.....that being said i think 2 losses in a row back to back can be considered a rare event
any of the following is a trigger
123 ABC
132 ACB
213 BAC
231 BCA
312 CAB
321 CBA
i know most here play euro
so here is a euro test
only got to 2nd step of progression once
green is win on 1st attempt
blue is win on 2nd attempt of progresison
i think its safe to say out of all the grassroots tweaks, raymanz suggestion is superior
The first bet win is plentiful. We arent chasing wins. They just work
Im not playing as mini games anymore. A trigger is a trigger. I just put it in the chart above so its easy to read
Mini games work well but less bet opportunities for this particular tweak
Hello all. For those who don't like the marty (1-3-9), since we do get a LOT of 1st or 2nd bet win, we can use a shortened Fibo (shortened meaning it starts 1-2-... instead of 1-1-2-...).
Here's how I play it:
- I use the Fibo sequence 1-2-3-5-8-13, total cost 64 (I know, it costs more than 1-3-9, feel free to shorten or lenghten it to suit your bankroll). My BR for 1 session is 80 units (see point 3 for the reason), total BR is 240 units.
- On the 1st win AFTER a loss, I'll parlay my win on the next bet (so if I won the 8 bet, on my next bet I'll bet 12); if I win the parlay, it's back to 1 unit (unless the parlay win was at the 13 bet, then I'll bet 5 afterwards to finish recouping). I always round up on the parlay bet when required. If you LOSE the parlay bet you simply continue the progression as if you didn't get the 1st win.
- Since I play on a Euro wheel, I only cover the 0 when my bet is OVER 5 unit on each dozen (or if the last number hit was 26-0-32). The reason I do this is because in order to NOT lose too much profit when betting 0, you also have to increase your base bets by the same amount, which means every 1 unit on 0 costs me 3 to bet; when you win it's OK but when you lose you now have to bet 3 times as much to cover the 0 in order to recoup the loss on the previous bet. Of course, when your base unit is say $15 or more, you can probably take the small loss of a few $$ and simply bet the 0.
- WHEN you lose the progression (for it WILL happen), what I do first is change table, then for the next 10 winning mini sessions (10 times in profit for a bet, so either a win on 1st bet or a parlay win) I'll double my starting unit BUT I'll remove a step from my progression in case of a loss (thankfully, no back to back losses so far).
- Last part of my money management: as stated, my total BR is 3 times a session amount (so 240 units); when I get to 4 times (so 320 units), I'll withdraw one BR (I play online), and I'll up my unit value by 1.
The reason I use a 6 step Fibo is simply because I used to play this against 1-2-3-a-b-c (where a b and c are columns), with the aim of winning 6 units and then switching table; it was doing OK but on the Euro wheel 1-2-3 and a-b-c happened often enough to barely be profitable. Then I played against 1-3-2-a-c-b which was a bit better. But with thist latest tweak (only if the last 3 dozen or column are unique), it's going MUCH better. I do have a slight variation though: when I get a trigger (let's say 2-1-3), I'll play it against dozens AND columns after (so I'll play against 2-1-3-b-a-c), or if my trigger on columns (let's say c-b-a), I'll play columns first (so c-b-a-3-2-1).
So here are my results so far (each number is a "session" which can be between 2 tables and 8 tables, each days is 3-5 sessions):
1. Starting BR of 750 units (so my base unit is 3)
2. 789 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c)
3. 710 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c), a few wins then a loss followed by recoup session
4. 775 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c)
5. 868 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c)
6. 875 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c), loss right off the bat, recovery session and enough wins for a small profit
7. 964 unist (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b), withdraw 240 units, new BR now 724 units and base unit is now 4
8. 824 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b))
9. 946 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b))
10. 859 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b), few wins, a loss, recovery
11. 926 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b)
12. 1002 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b)
13. 1197 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b)
14. 1302 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b), withdraw 320 units, new BR now 982 units and base unit is now 5
15. 1002 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b), lots of wins, a loss, recovery and a few more wins
16. 1197 units (vs 3 last if unique) (all wins on 1st bet this one)
17. 1304 units (vs 3 last if unique)
18. 1513 units (vs 3 last if unique)
19. 1690 units (vs 3 last if unique), withdraw 400 units, new BR NOW 1290 UNITS and base unit is now 6
20. 1398 units (vs 3 last if unique)
21. 1566 units (vs 3 last if unique)
So far, with my 750 units deposit, I withdrew 960 units (so 210 profit) and I still have 1566 units in the account. All this is from real money play online on Live dealer Euro wheels, over the last 6 days.
PS: Sorry for the long post.
Quote from: Noreilles on Dec 13, 11:13 AM 2015
Hello all. For those who don't like the marty (1-3-9), since we do get a LOT of 1st or 2nd bet win, we can use a shortened Fibo (shortened meaning it starts 1-2-... instead of 1-1-2-...).
Here's how I play it:
- I use the Fibo sequence 1-2-3-5-8-13, total cost 64 (I know, it costs more than 1-3-9, feel free to shorten or lenghten it to suit your bankroll). My BR for 1 session is 80 units (see point 3 for the reason), total BR is 240 units.
- On the 1st win AFTER a loss, I'll parlay my win on the next bet (so if I won the 8 bet, on my next bet I'll bet 12); if I win the parlay, it's back to 1 unit (unless the parlay win was at the 13 bet, then I'll bet 5 afterwards to finish recouping). I always round up on the parlay bet when required. If you LOSE the parlay bet you simply continue the progression as if you didn't get the 1st win.
- Since I play on a Euro wheel, I only cover the 0 when my bet is OVER 5 unit on each dozen (or if the last number hit was 26-0-32). The reason I do this is because in order to NOT lose too much profit when betting 0, you also have to increase your base bets by the same amount, which means every 1 unit on 0 costs me 3 to bet; when you win it's OK but when you lose you now have to bet 3 times as much to cover the 0 in order to recoup the loss on the previous bet. Of course, when your base unit is say $15 or more, you can probably take the small loss of a few $$ and simply bet the 0.
- WHEN you lose the progression (for it WILL happen), what I do first is change table, then for the next 10 winning mini sessions (10 times in profit for a bet, so either a win on 1st bet or a parlay win) I'll double my starting unit BUT I'll remove a step from my progression in case of a loss (thankfully, no back to back losses so far).
- Last part of my money management: as stated, my total BR is 3 times a session amount (so 240 units); when I get to 4 times (so 320 units), I'll withdraw one BR (I play online), and I'll up my unit value by 1.
The reason I use a 6 step Fibo is simply because I used to play this against 1-2-3-a-b-c (where a b and c are columns), with the aim of winning 6 units and then switching table; it was doing OK but on the Euro wheel 1-2-3 and a-b-c happened often enough to barely be profitable. Then I played against 1-3-2-a-c-b which was a bit better. But with thist latest tweak (only if the last 3 dozen or column are unique), it's going MUCH better. I do have a slight variation though: when I get a trigger (let's say 2-1-3), I'll play it against dozens AND columns after (so I'll play against 2-1-3-b-a-c), or if my trigger on columns (let's say c-b-a), I'll play columns first (so c-b-a-3-2-1).
So here are my results so far (each number is a "session" which can be between 2 tables and 8 tables, each days is 3-5 sessions):
1. Starting BR of 750 units (so my base unit is 3)
2. 789 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c)
3. 710 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c), a few wins then a loss followed by recoup session
4. 775 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c)
5. 868 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c)
6. 875 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c), loss right off the bat, recovery session and enough wins for a small profit
7. 964 unist (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b), withdraw 240 units, new BR now 724 units and base unit is now 4
8. 824 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b))
9. 946 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b))
10. 859 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b), few wins, a loss, recovery
11. 926 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b)
12. 1002 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b)
13. 1197 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b)
14. 1302 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b), withdraw 320 units, new BR now 982 units and base unit is now 5
15. 1002 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b), lots of wins, a loss, recovery and a few more wins
16. 1197 units (vs 3 last if unique) (all wins on 1st bet this one)
17. 1304 units (vs 3 last if unique)
18. 1513 units (vs 3 last if unique)
19. 1690 units (vs 3 last if unique), withdraw 400 units, new BR NOW 1290 UNITS and base unit is now 6
20. 1398 units (vs 3 last if unique)
21. 1566 units (vs 3 last if unique)
So far, with my 750 units deposit, I withdrew 960 units (so 210 profit) and I still have 1566 units in the account. All this is from real money lplay online on Live dealer Euro wheels.
PS: Sorry for the long post.
Not much to say. Except WOW.
With this tweak the numbers speak for themselves.
With all the tests coming out confidence in this is rising high.
Betting against a unique pattern such as 132 to repeat. Why does it work? What makes it so special where when we bet this way the losses are few and far between?
I have a theory.
The way I see it is this:
The roulette wheel is random. Whatever happens next had the same probability to happen before and to happen again. Each spin is independent.
A random entity spitting out a unique pattern 2, 3, 4 times in a row in exactly the same way is a tough thing for it to do.
Look at it this way. Lottery. You play take 4 daily numbers. Today winning numbers are 1532. Are we going to see 1532 tomorrow? Probably not
With the dozens we aren't betting when the past 2 decisions were 223. Only when all 3 are unique and separate. This gives us an advantage because the wheel repeating it happens only so seldom.
In all the tests I've seen the 1 loss one might have is way compensated for by the plethora of wins. The wins outweigh the losses, (in mini games of 3).
We will see
231
232. WHOA almost a repeat, but no cigar. THIS is seldom as well. As many have said, most wins are on 1st or 2nd attempt, rarely the 3rd.
What I am saying is...we might see 123 123 or 213 213 right after the other back to back but the odds i believe are in our favor. Math guys will call it gamblers fallacy. That's fine.
I believe we can (as we are) using random against itself. "HEY Mr. Roulette Wheel you son of a bit*h! Let me see you repeat a unique pattern 3 times in a row ON THE DOZENS! Bet ya can't!!"
A lot of people are winning with it though.
(I have not read every post) QUESTION >> how many wins equals ONE loss?
Ken
Quote from: MrJ on Dec 13, 01:42 PM 2015
(I have not read every post) QUESTION >> how many wins equals ONE loss?
Ken
2 wins equals 1 loss. so far the math has 1 loss every 350 spins or so. I am using 139, so the 1 loss every 300 or so spins means nothing. I will test noreiles tweak with new prog.
Depending if we play it as mini games - 4 bet opportunities an hour or ROLLING 11 bet opportunities an hour. on average. add columns to the party and double the opportunities.
75 spins yesterday. on a rolling basis had dozens and columns on the sheet, playing both at same time had 18 betting opportunities. Only one made it to 3rd step of prog
why do i believe in it? the math matches EVERYTIME. we will see 5 uniques an hour in mini games.....matches up everytime....on a rolling basis, double it
Mr. J look at the archives. Find the unique dozen pattern and see if you see any repeats of it.
look for
123
132
213
231
312
321
see how often you see one of these formations repeat
(i went through the 185 spin sets from albahala, went through about 4 185 spin tests, had 1 repeat of 123123 back to back)
Quote from: Noreilles on Dec 13, 11:13 AM 2015
16. 1197 units (vs 3 last if unique) (all wins on 1st bet this one)
17. 1304 units (vs 3 last if unique)
18. 1513 units (vs 3 last if unique)
19. 1690 units (vs 3 last if unique), withdraw 400 units, new BR NOW 1290 UNITS and base unit is now 6
20. 1398 units (vs 3 last if unique)
21. 1566 units (vs 3 last if unique)
Hello,
This is good:
Quote"I do have a slight variation though: when I get a trigger (let's say 2-1-3), I'll play it against dozens AND columns after (so I'll play against 2-1-3-b-a-c), or if my trigger on columns (let's say c-b-a), I'll play columns first (so c-b-a-3-2-1)"
And just to clarify a few things: I play rolling triggers to get more (on dozens and columns), one trigger gives me 2 bets (one on dozens, win or lose the mini series of 3 one trigger on columns also). I do wait out to finish the mini game of 3 before switching (so say I win dozens on 1st bet, I'll wait 2spins before betting columns). Lastly, I use the same fibo progression for both dozens and columns (so if I lose the 3 bets on dozens, my 1st bet on columns will be for 5 units).
Quote from: Noreilles on Dec 13, 03:09 PM 2015
And just to clarify a few things: I play rolling triggers to get more (on dozens and columns), one trigger gives me 2 bets (one on dozens, win or lose the mini series of 3 one trigger on columns also). I do wait out to finish the mini game of 3 before switching (so say I win dozens on 1st bet, I'll wait 2spins before betting columns). Lastly, I use the same fibo progression for both dozens and columns (so if I lose the 3 bets on dozens, my 1st bet on columns will be for 5 units).
Thanks for clarifying. One more question, how many unique repeats have you seen example 231 231?
I don't write down numbers, but going from memory I'd say 4 times in the last 6 days: twice recently, but on the board before I started betting, on columns both times, once on dozen against 1-2-3 (while I was betting, one of my losses) and the last on dozens again, when I was playing against 1-3-2-a-b-c, but it happened while I was betting the columns, the previous dozens repeated (3-1-2 I think). But this is online, across 12 wheels I play on (some more than others)
Noreilles
What Is best betting against on euro wheel 1,2,3 or 1,3,2
The best is betting against the last 3 if no repeats, then would be 1-3-2 and ladt 1-2-3
Yea betting against previous 3 if unique is #1 i agree
here is a set of dozens/columns that ive used before
using it again to test Noreilles tweak
if there is a dozen unique, for example 321, i will bet against it then when the 3 spin mini game is finished i will then play against 321 on the columns (CBA) immediately after and vice versa
test attached
i would give you 10 applauds if i could....you may take the gold medal here....
i dont think this is one of those things that will do good for a bit and then tank. i just dont see that. even a method that does good for a bit then tanks at least has SOME losses here and there........
18 bet opportunities all won 139
The beauty of this tweak is that we have on average 5 bet opportunities an hour on dozens and 5 on columns. For a total of on average 10
Now since after every trigger we also bet on the other side it doubles the opportunities. So we go from 5 on dozens to 10 on dozens and columns to about 20 an hour with tweak
Quote from: Noreilles on Dec 13, 11:13 AM 2015
Hello all. For those who don't like the marty (1-3-9), since we do get a LOT of 1st or 2nd bet win, we can use a shortened Fibo (shortened meaning it starts 1-2-... instead of 1-1-2-...).
Here's how I play it:
- I use the Fibo sequence 1-2-3-5-8-13, total cost 64 (I know, it costs more than 1-3-9, feel free to shorten or lenghten it to suit your bankroll). My BR for 1 session is 80 units (see point 3 for the reason), total BR is 240 units.
- On the 1st win AFTER a loss, I'll parlay my win on the next bet (so if I won the 8 bet, on my next bet I'll bet 12); if I win the parlay, it's back to 1 unit (unless the parlay win was at the 13 bet, then I'll bet 5 afterwards to finish recouping). I always round up on the parlay bet when required. If you LOSE the parlay bet you simply continue the progression as if you didn't get the 1st win.
- Since I play on a Euro wheel, I only cover the 0 when my bet is OVER 5 unit on each dozen (or if the last number hit was 26-0-32). The reason I do this is because in order to NOT lose too much profit when betting 0, you also have to increase your base bets by the same amount, which means every 1 unit on 0 costs me 3 to bet; when you win it's OK but when you lose you now have to bet 3 times as much to cover the 0 in order to recoup the loss on the previous bet. Of course, when your base unit is say $15 or more, you can probably take the small loss of a few $$ and simply bet the 0.
- WHEN you lose the progression (for it WILL happen), what I do first is change table, then for the next 10 winning mini sessions (10 times in profit for a bet, so either a win on 1st bet or a parlay win) I'll double my starting unit BUT I'll remove a step from my progression in case of a loss (thankfully, no back to back losses so far).
- Last part of my money management: as stated, my total BR is 3 times a session amount (so 240 units); when I get to 4 times (so 320 units), I'll withdraw one BR (I play online), and I'll up my unit value by 1.
The reason I use a 6 step Fibo is simply because I used to play this against 1-2-3-a-b-c (where a b and c are columns), with the aim of winning 6 units and then switching table; it was doing OK but on the Euro wheel 1-2-3 and a-b-c happened often enough to barely be profitable. Then I played against 1-3-2-a-c-b which was a bit better. But with thist latest tweak (only if the last 3 dozen or column are unique), it's going MUCH better. I do have a slight variation though: when I get a trigger (let's say 2-1-3), I'll play it against dozens AND columns after (so I'll play against 2-1-3-b-a-c), or if my trigger on columns (let's say c-b-a), I'll play columns first (so c-b-a-3-2-1).
So here are my results so far (each number is a "session" which can be between 2 tables and 8 tables, each days is 3-5 sessions):
1. Starting BR of 750 units (so my base unit is 3)
2. 789 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c)
3. 710 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c), a few wins then a loss followed by recoup session
4. 775 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c)
5. 868 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c)
6. 875 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c), loss right off the bat, recovery session and enough wins for a small profit
7. 964 unist (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b), withdraw 240 units, new BR now 724 units and base unit is now 4
8. 824 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b))
9. 946 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b))
10. 859 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b), few wins, a loss, recovery
11. 926 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b)
12. 1002 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b)
13. 1197 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b)
14. 1302 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b), withdraw 320 units, new BR now 982 units and base unit is now 5
15. 1002 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b), lots of wins, a loss, recovery and a few more wins
16. 1197 units (vs 3 last if unique) (all wins on 1st bet this one)
17. 1304 units (vs 3 last if unique)
18. 1513 units (vs 3 last if unique)
19. 1690 units (vs 3 last if unique), withdraw 400 units, new BR NOW 1290 UNITS and base unit is now 6
20. 1398 units (vs 3 last if unique)
21. 1566 units (vs 3 last if unique)
So far, with my 750 units deposit, I withdrew 960 units (so 210 profit) and I still have 1566 units in the account. All this is from real money play online on Live dealer Euro wheels, over the last 6 days.
PS: Sorry for the long post.
Now this is how you test a system.
Please keep us updated. Much appreciated! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Yes. He is very impressive indeed
So....I'm sorry to ask again but with all that posts and tests I got a little mixed up.......the best for euro wheel so far is :
1. Betting the previous 3 spins that will not appear again in that order (I don't get the ''if no repeats''......you mean 112, 223, etc)
2. Betting against 1 3 2
3. Betting against 1 2 3
Correct ?
Correct
Bet against previous 3 only if unique. Meaning all different
Bet that it wont repeat
Your only triggers:
123
132
213
231
312
321
Same time on columns for more bets. It slow. Expect about 10 an hour
Insurance on 0 is mandatory.
You will eventually hit a repeat. So find a money management technique that works for you. Have recovery funds if you play this
A unique repeat happens about every 350 spins. It can happen to you immediately. It can happen in 10 spins. Or you may not see it for a month. Or you might see it 3 times in a row like lightning. On average each unique repeats ABOUT every 2000 spins. Divided by 6 unique combinations, about every 350 spins. Thats just some math.
In other words within 2000 spins you should have 6 unique patterns repeat. The question is how close together will it happen?
Read and try to understand noreiles post
Here is a test i trust very much. Its 66,000 spins. I trust it because all the uniques are very very close number wise. So the math lines up. Numbers speak louder then words
Source: raymanz
66k spins euro
123 123: 31 times
132 132: 35 times
213 213: 30 times
231 231: 30 times
312 312: 26 times
321 321: 28 times
So the math
66,000 divided by 30
2,200
Divided by 6
366 (repeat every 366)
I am confident that people here are smart enough to have a money management technique to beat that :thumbsup:
Im taking a break for awhile. I find myself trying to justify the strategy too much and i need to focus on me. I have done enough and posted enough tests. Those who helped me especially by PM thank you. Thanks to the ones posting tests especially. The naysayers, well no hard feelings i hope everyone wins (except the guys using multiple handles pretending to be different people. I hope you lose big)
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 14, 06:15 AM 2015
Im taking a break for awhile. I find myself trying to justify the strategy too much and i need to focus on me. I have done enough and posted enough tests. Those who helped me especially by PM thank you. Thanks to the ones posting tests especially. The naysayers, well no hard feelings i hope everyone wins (except the guys using multiple handles pretending to be different people. I hope you lose big)
Sounds like somebody just got his Xmas bonus !!!!!
I look forward to the results you will no doubt post on your return ;)
O0
Hi!
I have been following these threads from the beginning and i have tested every combination so i thought i will try for real.
I played by the rules of raymanz tweak, small progression like 1-1,2-2,3-3 and if a lose this i start with 2-2, until recovery.
This is what happend:
LLL
LW
W
LLW
LW
LW
LW
W
W
W
W
LW
LLL
In the next mini game a 0 came and i was out of Money.
It is no big deal because i played with 0.1 euro, i only lost 5 euros.
I don`t say it won`t work but folks be careful!!!!
Agesta
Quote from: Noreilles on Dec 13, 11:13 AM 2015
I do have a slight variation though: when I get a trigger (let's say 2-1-3), I'll play it against dozens AND columns after (so I'll play against 2-1-3-b-a-c), or if my trigger on columns (let's say c-b-a), I'll play columns first (so c-b-a-3-2-1).
before I go (break from THIS forum), I'd like to reiterate this to the guys testing and playing this
Quote from: Noreilles on Dec 13, 11:13 AM 2015
So here are my results so far (each number is a "session" which can be between 2 tables and 8 tables, each days is 3-5 sessions):
1. Starting BR of 750 units (so my base unit is 3)
2. 789 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c)
3. 710 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c), a few wins then a loss followed by recoup session
4. 775 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c)
5. 868 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c)
6. 875 units (vs 1-2-3-a-b-c), loss right off the bat, recovery session and enough wins for a small profit
7. 964 unist (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b), withdraw 240 units, new BR now 724 units and base unit is now 4
8. 824 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b))
9. 946 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b))
10. 859 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b), few wins, a loss, recovery
11. 926 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b)
12. 1002 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b)
13. 1197 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b)
14. 1302 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b), withdraw 320 units, new BR now 982 units and base unit is now 5
15. 1002 units (vs 1-3-2-a-c-b), lots of wins, a loss, recovery and a few more wins
16. 1197 units (vs 3 last if unique) (all wins on 1st bet this one)
17. 1304 units (vs 3 last if unique)
18. 1513 units (vs 3 last if unique)
19. 1690 units (vs 3 last if unique), withdraw 400 units, new BR NOW 1290 UNITS and base unit is now 6
20. 1398 units (vs 3 last if unique)
21. 1566 units (vs 3 last if unique)
So far, with my 750 units deposit, I withdrew 960 units (so 210 profit) and I still have 1566 units in the account. All this is from real money play online on Live dealer Euro wheels, over the last 6 days.
OK, so here's a short update...
22. 1602 units (vs 3 last if unique), session was cut short by one on my kids crying (scraped his knee)
23. 738 units (vs 3 last if unique), my first double loss... base unit is now back to 3
Here's how session 23 went: 4 wins on 1st number, the 1st loss because of LWLWLWLWLWLW (since I parlay my 1st win after a loss, a LWL is the same as a LL for me; had I been playing 1-3-9 progression, it wouldn't have lost); and it was a first for my 2nd loss (played at double units, but with one less step in the progression): LLLLL(L)... I got 9 wins at double units, then I was playing against 3-1-2 on dozens, next 3 numbers were 33-4-17 (so dozens 3-1-2), went on to play c-a-b on columns (the equivalent of the 3-1-2 dozens) and yep, got c-a which busted the progression and sure enough, the next number was in the b column (that's the (L) ) so even if I had been at my normal bet level it would have been a loss... and for those of you who didn't notice, the 3 first numbers (my loss on dozens) were also in columns c-a-b which means I got 3 repeating dozens followed by 3 repeating columns... so I guess everithing is possible, it's just a matter of how often it happens (so far, 1st time with 6 losses in a row).
BUT, I'm still in profit, so I'll continue with this and see when the next loss happens. Next update at session 30.
You have played over 1,000 real wheel spins before having your first back to back loss and you are still well into profit
This is the type of thing i was expecting
Good work and good luck
Since this thread is geared toward previous 3 unique i thought this was good to put here
Nick the greek posted this in the other thread. Great way to have MANY more bets.
Playing with this tweak gets you your win goal much faster rather then sitting 25 spins waiting for a unique trigger just bet against it once it shows until another shows
Quote123
132
213
231
312
321
So, I don't initially start betting until one of these sequences shows itself in a 3 spin mini game - I then keep betting against it (in 3 spin mini games) until another one shows and then I switch and keep betting against that one until another one appears........etc. etc.
If the first/second bet wins let the mini game play out without any further betting.
If the third bet loses stop and start again from scratch at another table.
Progression is 1-3-9, however I might now try 1-4-13 to help build the bank more quickly (thank you GLC for the suggestion).
Quote from: Noreilles on Dec 16, 12:20 AM 2015
OK, so here's a short update...
22. 1602 units (vs 3 last if unique), session was cut short by one on my kids crying (scraped his knee)
23. 738 units (vs 3 last if unique), my first double loss... base unit is now back to 3
Here's how session 23 went: 4 wins on 1st number, the 1st loss because of LWLWLWLWLWLW (since I parlay my 1st win after a loss, a LWL is the same as a LL for me; had I been playing 1-3-9 progression, it wouldn't have lost); and it was a first for my 2nd loss (played at double units, but with one less step in the progression): LLLLL(L)... I got 9 wins at double units, then I was playing against 3-1-2 on dozens, next 3 numbers were 33-4-17 (so dozens 3-1-2), went on to play c-a-b on columns (the equivalent of the 3-1-2 dozens) and yep, got c-a which busted the progression and sure enough, the next number was in the b column (that's the (L) ) so even if I had been at my normal bet level it would have been a loss... and for those of you who didn't notice, the 3 first numbers (my loss on dozens) were also in columns c-a-b which means I got 3 repeating dozens followed by 3 repeating columns... so I guess everithing is possible, it's just a matter of how often it happens (so far, 1st time with 6 losses in a row).
BUT, I'm still in profit, so I'll continue with this and see when the next loss happens. Next update at session 30.
Any updates??? :question:
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 09, 07:15 PM 2015
Raymanz tweak...deserves new thread.....
Bet against previous 3 dozens
only when previous 3 are unique
123 qualifies so bet against
122 does not qualify
So I picked up my zumma book and opened to page 186
randomly and looked at dozens.
spins 309,310,and 311 are "2,1,3".
Then the next 3 are "2,1,3".
Second betting chance as soon as I pick up the book.
Quote from: mogul397 on Dec 22, 09:32 PM 2015
So I picked up my zumma book and opened to page 186
randomly and looked at dozens.
spins 309,310,and 311 are "2,1,3".
Then the next 3 are "2,1,3".
Second betting chance as soon as I pick up the book.
ok BUT if you were betting in mini games of 3 on a chart, would the 213 and 213 have lined up on top of one another? theres repeats in the charts of course. but important we test it right...
ah, yes. i found what you saw. 213 213. the only unique repeat in many many pages.
there will be losers.
the wins compensate
american 15,000 spin zumma split into mini games will have roughly 43 mini game losses (43 times a unique repeat). on average a unique repeats every 350 spins. and consists of 5,000 mini games total
43 mini game losses with 1-3-9 is minus 1,118 units
4,957 mini game wins is +4,957 units roughly of course
minus the 1,118 units
plus 3839 units
thats if we play continuously as nick the greek suggested and changing the bet when a new trigger appears. when you see a unique bet against it every mini game until a new unique appears. so who knows where we would have been on that 213, probably a win
bear in mind, playing how nick the greek suggested would not have been a loss on the first 213 (most likely) you saw so that CHANGES THE GAME. good job nick, wherever you are
estimate based on averages
so many tweaks and new ways of thinking!
Quote from: thelaw on Dec 22, 06:53 PM 2015
Any updates??? :question:
Sorry for the no updates, 4 kids "at home" right now for the christmas break and we are out of town, so almost no web access (using the inlaw's computer, no wat am I going to play online on it). Next update should be around january 7...
Hello, I was curious about this method so I tested it for a few hundreds of thousands and millions of no zero generated spins. Sometimes it ends in plus sometimes in minus. But if it ends in plus it makes about 1 unit per approximately 800 spins. There are about twice as many wins than losses. I used 1, 3, 9 progression, played only on dozens.
Quote from: MrG on Dec 28, 12:34 PM 2015
Hello, I was curious about this method so I tested it for a few hundreds of thousands and millions of no zero generated spins. Sometimes it ends in plus sometimes in minus. But if it ends in plus it makes about 1 unit per approximately 800 spins. There are about twice as many wins than losses. I used 1, 3, 9 progression, played only on dozens.
Betting against a unique when it occurs
Triggers
123
132
213
231
312
321
??
Mini games of 3 on a win wait for the 3 to finish?
Very important. When you see unique bet against. If win on spin 1 sit out next 2 spins. Then wait for next unique to appear
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 28, 12:43 PM 2015
Betting against a unique when it occurs
Triggers
123
132
213
231
312
321
??
Mini games of 3 on a win wait for the 3 to finish?
Very important. When you see unique bet against. If win on spin 1 sit out next 2 spins. Then wait for next unique to appear
Yes, playing only after unique, so after the abovementioned triggers and waiting for those three to be finished. So for example if there are spins 1, 2, 3, 2, 3, 1. The spins 1, 2, 3 are trigger, the game starts at spin with value 2 from the following 3 spins, this is a win. For the rest of those spins it is not played/bet. But because also spins 2, 3, 1 are trigger on next spin it is played against this trigger.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 10, 05:41 PM 2015
3 tests against previous 3....only when unique
bravo ray for a nice tweak to grassroots
no losses at all so far
fewer betting opportunities but more confidence
I don't know how true to form these results are. Or if other results
posted more recently are more representative, but logically, these
results follow exact stats. I mean that there is a 2-1 ration where if
you bet flat, you'd be even. 1/3 of the losses are on the 3rd columb
cancelling out the wins on the first two.
So it troubles me. Even though I have more confidence in this method than
that.
Quote from: mogul397 on Dec 28, 01:22 PM 2015
I don't know how true to form these results are. Or if other results
posted more recently are more representative, but logically, these
results follow exact stats. I mean that there is a 2-1 ration where if
you bet flat, you'd be even. 1/3 of the losses are on the 3rd columb
cancelling out the wins on the first two.
So it troubles me. Even though I have more confidence in this method than
that.
Bet against previous 3 dozen formation only when unique
Mini games of 3
1 3 9
Stop on a win and wait til next trigger of unique 3 in chart
Thats how i tested it. Zumma
Grassroots offspring....raymanz tweak
TESTED IN EXCEL
Fixed the pattern to play "3,2,1" missing
1st two pages of american zumma
83 spins
these are all the unique dozen formations followed by the next 3 spins. i just picked the uniques i saw and what followed
123 followed by
112 (bet against 123, win on 2nd step of prog)
231 followed by
313 (bet against 231, win on 1st step of prog)
132 followed by
311 (bet against 132, win on 1st step of progression)
312 followed by
233 (bet against 312, win on 1st step of prog)
123 followed by
313 (bet against 123, win on 1st step of prog)
321 followed by
311 (bet against 321, win on 2nd step of prog)
132 followed by
113 (bet against 132, win on 2nd step of prog)
not too bad. 7 triggers in 83 spins, all won. no unique repeated. yet