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Roulettefocused => General Discussion => Topic started by: winkel on Jan 12, 04:54 PM 2011

Hi Folks,
I start here the thread I announced.
I donÂ´t know how fast I can continue.
Some main points in front:
 this is not a "System" it is a strategy!
What is the difference: A System has iron rules an can be doded easily.
A Strategy just gives you a red hering when and what to bet and offers hints why you could win or lose if you bet now.
 the main hint is still: Watch what is going on
 and: If in doubt donÂ´t bet.
For the basics pls read in the old VLSForum

I will do all my explanations only with "0";"1" and ">1" but they can easily be transferred to all other crossings like "5" vs "6"
What we wanna find are spins like this:
see attachment:
[attachimg=#]

What we have to face are the stochastical rules,
e.g. the crossing 161110 in spin 36 and 37
If we bet any 11 numbers we will have a hitrate of 11/37 and a miss of 26/37 in the long run.
That is simply what KonFuSed proved by his run over 10 million spins. Every crossing would lose its 2,7%.
But in the real game we try not only to find such a nice trot like the above, we also trust in the fact, that not all different crossing that come our way will lose.
So this strategy tries to give you hints whether this trot wins, comes out even or will lose.

Hi Winkel, nice to see you around.
I have a question for you.
Imagine we track a trot for 4045 spins but nothing seems good to bet or there aren't any crossings in sight the good thing here is to stop and retrack.
But the question is, how many spins back from this 40 spins trot to retrack, I say 20 spins back?
Like 1st spin to 40th spin  nothing good, then I start new tracking from the 20th spin, is this adequate?

Hi sekuritati,
all your questions will be answered later in this thread. It would be confusing if I answer now.
I tried to make a logical string to this that will lead to the points your questions are referring to.
br
winkel

So how can we see what is going on?
We need some kind of milestones in the range of 50 spins on which this strategy is based.
The so called law of third says that we expect in the average 2324 different numbers.
50% of these numbers will be repeaters: 1112
So I parted the trot of 37 spins as follows:
13 spins
12 spins
12 spin (37)
13 spins
if we continue we will get a row of 13 12 12 repeating
we also know that after 25 spins (13+12) there is an average of 1819 hit numbers.
so we have already two milestones:
25 spins : 1819 different numbers
37 spins : 2324 different numbers
From my own statistics I detected that:
after 13 spins there are mostly: 1011 different numbers
after 50 spins there are mostly 2629 different numbers hit.
If you carefully watch to thiese statistics you will see:
1011
1819 Diff 8
2324 Diff 6
2728 Diff 4
and remaining unhit numbers
2726
1918
1413
109
the hit and unhit differ 1 in opposite order

How can we use this to see "What is going on"
Imagine we enter a casino select a table and start writing down the numbers on the marquee.
We will almost have 1015 numbers on the marquee.
our game usally starts behind spin 25 so we lots of time to analyse:
First Point we do a check is spin 13:
We expect (see above) 1011 different numbers.
If we have 13 different hit numbers we call this trot "fast"
If we have less than 10 hit different numbers we call this trot "slow"
Second point we check is spin 25:
We expect 1819 different numbers
If we have mor than 19 hit numbers we call it "fast"
If we have less than 18 hit numbers we call it "slow"
Third point we check is spin 37:
We expect 2324 different hit numbers
If we have more than 24 hit numbers this is "fast"
If we less than 23 numbers we call it "slow".

Second check is this:
after 13 spins we see whether we have a slow or a fast trot.
But what do we expect?
Will it keep normal, fast or slow?
Despite what ever we detected we will expect the average contribution of
8 new numbers between spins 14 and 25
6 new numbers between spins 26 and 37
4 new numbers between spins 38 and 50
example:
after 13 spins we have a slow trot of only 8 different numbers that means remaining 29 unhit
so we expect at spin 25:
298 = 21 unhit numbers
example for the Law of Third:
spin 13: 11 hit numbers 28 remaining
spin 25: 19 hit numbers 18 remaining
spin 37: 25 hit numbers 12 remaining
spin 50: 29 hit numbers 8 remaining
(a difference of +/ 1 is the average of the law of Third

So I parted the trot of 37(50?) spins as follows:
13 spins
12 spins
12 spin (37)
13 spins
Winkel, thanks for your new input about GUT, now I know why you marked the 50 spins with 4 different colors

Another point we can watch is the behaving of the rows ("0";"1";">1")
eg.
"0" only can go down from 37 to 0
If we watch:
19
19
18
18
17
17
we see a rythm. and we will always follow this rythm
">1" will only go up from 0 to 37
If we watch:
1
1
1
1
1
1
2
2
2
2
3
3
3
there is also a rythm and we expect it is going on.
"1" goes up first (average 15) and then down again, and in between it may go up and down.
If we watch this:
9
10
11
12
11
10
9
10
11
11
10
9
we can see several rhytms and we try to follow.

So if it comes to a crossing we can check all above patterns and make an educated guess if we will win or lose if we bet.
If we find a situation we cannot explain to ourselves, we are in doubt and we donÂ´t bet.
br
winkel

Now we have a look at the "JUMP"
If we watch a trot and we find situations
 we have a double loss (betting two crossings)
 we can not expect a crossing ("0" run down; "1" is rising to 18 or higher; no repeaters)
 we are in doubt and it seems we can not read "What is going on"
etc.
Then we start a new trot either starting with the next spin or any other spin of the last spins.
If we start with a new spin #1 we will perhaps have to wait more than 25 spins before we find a new/next crossing. Most crossings will appear after spin 25!
So we count back 25 spins and start with that, so we have a full sight, if this new counting is in better shape or it is fast or slow.
In a BMCasino this needs some time so we just jump bakc 20 spins, so our calculations are done when the new spin 25 appears.
Also if we have finished our first attack and we wanna restart we can use this 2025spin jump back.

I would give you examples for that, but you could easily say: He knew the next spin.
So if there are some who try this, it would be nice they would give me the spins up to the situation they have a "doubt" and I would explain my way of analizing the trot.
waiting
winkel

No questions?

Hi W.
Maybe U could set up a "Chat" test, where a fellow chat member would feed U live numbers, and U bet place them, and suggest when and where to bet?
Hopefully, if scheduled in advance, we could get multiple chat members viewing the Live Results, as they happen!?
Just a thought, and that would remove all doubt about U fear of ppl saying @
'He knew the next number'? ?

Some examples
spin ## 0 1 >1
20 18 23 10 4
21 20 22 11 4
22 35 21 12 4
23 34 20 13 4
24 26 20 12 5
25 26 20 12 5
26 17 19 13 5
27 4 18 14 5
28 25 17 15 5
29 28 16 16 5
at spin 29 we find a first crossing
at spin 25 we have 20 12 5 average would be 19/18 14/12 5/6 so we have 2 "0" slow
since spin 25 we have 4 "0" in a row but we expect til spin 37 only 6 "0"
so it is a risc to bet this crossing

Coups spins 0 1 >1
1 8 36 1 0
2 1 35 2 0
3 14 34 3 0
4 6 33 4 0
5 7 32 5 0
6 22 31 6 0
7 18 30 7 0
8 12 29 8 0
9 33 28 9 0
10 32 27 10 0
11 20 26 11 0
12 29 25 12 0
13 25 24 13 0
14 34 23 14 0
15 32 23 13 1
16 2 22 14 1
17 2 22 13 2
18 9 21 14 2
19 20 21 13 3
20 27 20 14 3
21 25 20 13 4
22 26 19 14 4
23 14 19 13 5
24 15 18 14 5
25 7 18 13 6
26 20 18 13 6
27 26 18 12 7
28 27 18 11 8
29 8 18 10 9
First crossing not on "0" but on "1"
spin 25 is ok
"0" stuck for 6 times
"1" hit for 4 times in a row
6 "0" to appear, non already appeared. 8 spins remaining for this.
would you bet the "1"?

These were two examples of a doubtsituation.
No matter what you had done (one had won and one had lost) what do we do with it?
As I mentioned before, we will always win/lose like the odds are.
16 "0" will win 16/37 and lose 21/37
10 "1" will win 10/37 and lose 27/37
so what ever our decision was we note in our diary the result like this:
spin 29 Bet 16 "0" result: W or L
spin 29 Bet 10 "1" result: W or L
every time we find a same situation we will check our diary.
e.g. our diary shows 5 L in a row we will bet that now a W is due and revers.
simply: we bet on the odds which have to appear due to the normal distribution
as there is not much interest or questions I will stop an donly answer questions.
br
winkel

Final version for now I think. Bet for 32/number_count on trigger, after that, if same trigger happens again, bet again. Trigger is if there is one more or same of numbers with less hits than those in a higher group. Groups: 0 vs 1, 0 vs 2+, 1 vs 2+. If there are more triggers in one spin, always start bet that with highest sum of count numbers. It might happen that several bets run at once, that might be still a problem. If there is already a trigger running, and a new appears, should I stop playing the old one and play that new? Or run them together?
quoted from here: x://rouletteforum.cc/rouletteandgamblingframework/roulettetheoriesnewtheoryisneedit/msg44274/#msg44274 (http://x://rouletteforum.cc/rouletteandgamblingframework/roulettetheoriesnewtheoryisneedit/msg44274/#msg44274)
Hi mr. ore,
donÃ‚Â´t put this in iron frames!
It always depends on "what is going on"
If two crossings did lose stop the game and restart.
Jump to a winning streak instead of riding a losing one.
br
winkel

Hi Tcs
have you ever read this topic? You should understand and see "What is going on"
br
winkel

Hello, winkle
No I haven't. I got sidetracked with all that FlAtMaN misery and lost my direction. I will certainly mark it for reading.
Thanks
Sam

I´m wondering!
I never put another ones strategy down. But many people refer to my strategy and blame it not working or tell it´s too complicated.
It always seems they didn't read carefully.
They didbn´t even notice that I told it only works on straight up not on any other chance.
I told that i checked it on every other chance, but it wouldn´t work.
just my quote
br winkel

Hi Winkel, thanks for taking the time to write your advice on straightup vs other locations. Some have tried yes. Personally I can only see Splits as a possibility.
It's nice to see you around.
Thank you.

W.O.W
Hello winkel!
Didn't think I would ever post on a thread on which you just posted.
How has your playing been going?
Do you use different methods or primarily G.U.T. as you just explained in your last post?

I´m wondering!
I never put another ones strategy down. But many people refer to my strategy and blame it not working or tell it´s too complicated.
It always seems they didn't read carefully.
They didbn´t even notice that I told it only works on straight up not on any other chance.
I told that i checked it on every other chance, but it wouldn´t work.
just my quote
br winkel
i think that only one small problem problem with your strategy is because its only working for you and for nobody else in our Solar System.. :)
just my quote

It can work very well, specially if we do not stick to the rules all the time. It is a guessing part in it.

Gruss Gott (my version of german) I have tried Winkel stuff and not lostbe good Winkel!

These were two examples of a doubtsituation.
No matter what you had done (one had won and one had lost) what do we do with it?
As I mentioned before, we will always win/lose like the odds are.
16 "0" will win 16/37 and lose 21/37
10 "1" will win 10/37 and lose 27/37
so what ever our decision was we note in our diary the result like this:
spin 29 Bet 16 "0" result: W or L
spin 29 Bet 10 "1" result: W or L
every time we find a same situation we will check our diary.
e.g. our diary shows 5 L in a row we will bet that now a W is due and revers.
simply: we bet on the odds which have to appear due to the normal distribution
as there is not much interest or questions I will stop an donly answer questions.
br
winkel
Hi folks,
the G.U.T is mainly the idea of "reading spins".
Years ago I started this thread but there was nearly no interest in it.
Then "I was sold" and I stopped at all because I don´t like to be sold!
All posters complaining that it wouldn´t work neither didn´t read carefully nor understood TCS´s videos nor even asked questions.
If people would have followed they could make 250units in 37 spins.
G.U.T is just the basic of reading "what is going on". I´ve been blamed to much for this phrase.
br
winkel

Hey Winkel,
Didn't know you are still around. Surprised and happy to see you post. Wanted to really know the master's opinion on
x://betselection.cc/straightup/thefinalecrossing/msg14626/#msg14626 (http://x://betselection.cc/straightup/thefinalecrossing/msg14626/#msg14626)

Hi folks,
the G.U.T is mainly the idea of "reading spins".
Years ago I started this thread but there was nearly no interest in it.
Then "I was sold" and I stopped at all because I don´t like to be sold!
All posters complaining that it wouldn´t work neither didn´t read carefully nor understood TCS´s videos nor even asked questions.
If people would have followed they could make 250units in 37 spins.
G.U.T is just the basic of reading "what is going on". I´ve been blamed to much for this phrase.
br
winkel
Hello mr. Winkel, I have watched TCS's videos and have few questions about your method of playing GUT.
Do you record and bet on crossings like in TCS video, where he also bet on crossings between 2 and >2 and 3 and >3?
And do you use progression or recovery of any kind? Because without those, it can easily happen that we end up with negative BR, like in those videos where TCS used flat betting.
So I tested about 30 cycles of 60 spins and observed few things. First is that it is much safer to bet only on crossings between 1 and >1, as GreatGrampa also observed in his version (but I havent recorded for 2, >2, 3 and >3), where series of losses only once exceeded 5 streak (to 7). But in crossings between 0 and 1 it exceeded 10 times and more regularly. And thats for situations when spins are perfectly good and everything is in boundary's.
So if we only bet on crossings between 1 and >1 and after 3 losses double flat bet on all numbers, all 30 cycles would result in positive balance. But I have only tested 30 cycles and will test more, and you have seen millions for sure. So I would also like for you to decide if I should give up on this theory.
Thank you in advance.

Hello mr. Winkel, I have watched TCS's videos and have few questions about your method of playing GUT.
Do you record and bet on crossings like in TCS video, where he also bet on crossings between 2 and >2 and 3 and >3?
Yes
And do you use progression or recovery of any kind?
No progression, but sometimes a higher betsize
Because without those, it can easily happen that we end up with negative BR, like in those videos where TCS used flat betting.
You should read all my explanations where is told how to avoid losses, when to stop or to "jump"
So I tested about 30 cycles of 60 spins and observed few things. First is that it is much safer to bet only on crossings between 1 and >1, as GreatGrampa also observed in his version (but I haven't recorded for 2, >2, 3 and >3), where series of losses only once exceeded 5 streak (to 7). But in crossings between 0 and 1 it exceeded 10 times and more regularly. And that's for situations when spins are perfectly good and everything is in boundary's.
read above posts and you will find solution of this problem
So if we only bet on crossings between 1 and >1 and after 3 losses double flat bet on all numbers, all 30 cycles would result in positive balance. But I have only tested 30 cycles and will test more, and you have seen millions for sure. So I would also like for you to decide if I should give up on this theory.
Many decided not to play this, because they didn´t read, nor didn´t test, nor didn´t understand. Can´t help, when they don´t ask me but discuss with other using PM´s
Thank you in advance.

Things happen, and GUT is not 100% magical, the reason it do not work allways for mechanical players, we must see the situation and adopt, and then it works.
As you Herr Winkle (not Be no who I saw at Treatment 1949) has post a "Win as must you like" has been a failure sometimes, even by you, I read at a German forum, you stated BV as cheating, because it was impossible that method could lose.
We do never wrong, we have luck or not!

Thank you very much for reply.
May I ask, if you record also crossings between 2 and >2 and 3 and >3, to what spin do you record your game (mine is 60 spins)? Also when you complete one game, do you backtrack 2030 spins, or do you start a new game?
And in your first example for "jump"
Some examples
spin ## 0 1 >1
20 18 23 10 4
21 20 22 11 4
22 35 21 12 4
23 34 20 13 4
24 26 20 12 5
25 26 20 12 5
26 17 19 13 5
27 4 18 14 5
28 25 17 15 5
29 28 16 16 5
at spin 29 we find a first crossing
at spin 25 we have 20 12 5 average would be 19/18 14/12 5/6 so we have 2 "0" slow
since spin 25 we have 4 "0" in a row but we expect til spin 37 only 6 "0"
so it is a risc to bet this crossing
Are you saying that it is best to bet ONLY when all 3 columns are in average and of course, when one of them isnt in a row?

May I ask, if you record also crossings between 2 and >2 and 3 and >3,
YES
to what spin do you record your game (mine is 60 spins)?
until I´m in profit
Also when you complete one game, do you backtrack 2030 spins, or do you start a new game?
or I stop! It is all a result of watching "what is going on!"
And in your first example for "jump"Are you saying that it is best to bet ONLY when all 3 columns are in average and of course,
No! I said, If I have to bet this situation I check if it is likely that my chance will appear. When I have to bet "0" and this had appeared several times in a row I say it is more likely that this trend will stop than to continue!
when one of them isnt in a row?
pls note that it is not ironclad. It is a situation to bet and you have to decide to bet or not to bet.

Thank you professor.
I have recorded new cycles and looked only for ones that are in average and results are great compared to ones without tracking and betting on every trot that came. Also have noticed that in average spins where >1 regulary incresees we can bet on numbers that have shown 1 even when there is no crossing. But I need to test some more for that theory.
Oh, and is G.U.T. safe to play on RNG? Because all numbers for cycles where taken from my recordings on Titancasino's Roulette PRO RNG which is in my opinion the safest (compared to BV and partycasino).

I have recorded new cycles and looked only for ones that are in average and results are great compared to ones without tracking and betting on every trot that came.
You didn´t already understand what means "Watch what is going on"
Also have noticed that in average spins where >1 regulary incresees we can bet on numbers that have shown 1 even when there is no crossing.
You will see: It works or it doesn´t work
But I need to test some more for that theory.
Oh, and is G.U.T. safe to play on RNG? Because all numbers for cycles where taken from my recordings on Titancasino's Roulette PRO RNG which is in my opinion the safest (compared to BV and partycasino).
as long as random ist true random it will work. But livewheels can be biased also RNG may.

Welcome back Winkel :thumbsup:
You say "Watch what is going on". Could each
wheel have its own pattern when playing GUT?

Welcome back Winkel :thumbsup:
You say "Watch what is going on". Could each
wheel have its own pattern when playing GUT?
No!
The randomness has its pattern!
Again:
There are streaks where you win
There are streaks where you lose
There are streaks where you end up Zero
So register your own streaks as explained in a post on page one. Then follow the probability of winning again after 6 wins or losing again after 6 losses or winning/losing in alternating streaks.
br
winkel

So register your own streaks as explained in a post on page one. Then follow the probability of winning again after 6 wins or losing again after 6 losses or winning/losing in alternating streaks.
Again, thank you for your answer.
Can you tell us what are the average numbers that should shown from your register?
You have told us for columns 0,1 and >1 on milestones 25 and 37.
But can you tell us also for 2,>2 and more?

If you can read these informations:
picture 380 and 381 at spin 25
picture 382, 383 and 384 at spin 37
br winkel

If you can read these informations:
picture 380 and 381 at spin 25
picture 382, 383 and 384 at spin 37
br winkel
Wow, thank you for those information's. :)
Are those all possible combinations that could occur on spins 25 and 37 and Summe tells us how many times has it shown?
And if yes, do you possibly have something similar for spin 50 or 60?

Are those all possible combinations that could occur on spins 25 and 37
NO
and Summe tells us how many times has it shown?
YES
And if yes, do you possibly have something similar for spin 50 or 60?
I have all possible combinations from spin 25 to spin 50
You did only ask for the averages. I gave for spin 25 18145 and sigma+1 (17 .. ..) and sigma1 (19 .. ..) accordingly at spin 37 141310 + 131410 etc.

You did only ask for the averages. I gave for spin 25 18145 and sigma+1 (17 .. ..) and sigma1 (19 .. ..) accordingly at spin 37 141310 + 131410 etc.
Thank you, I dont know how did you get so many data, but it is very helpful :)
Do you use any other method simultaneously while playing G.U.T.?

Do you use any other method simultaneously while playing G.U.T.?
why should I?
As I explained before this G.U.T is just a part to excercise "what is going on" if you are able to read the "tell tale spins" you can bet some spins and collect about 200 to 300 unit per trot.

why should I?
As I explained before this G.U.T is just a part to excercise "what is going on" if you are able to read the "tell tale spins" you can bet some spins and collect about 200 to 300 unit per trot.
Yes that is true, but it takes many many weeks of testing to be able to read trots.
Does it ever happen to you now, that you end with negative balance and have to stop or jump a trot?

Yes that is true, but it takes many many weeks of testing to be able to read trots.
You have to work to get success! As long it is for free ...
Does it ever happen to you now, that you end with negative balance and have to stop or jump a trot?
Tere are surely times of misreading. But therefore you can jump or stop. This is a strategy like in football. You have to try not knowing how the others will react.

Hello Winkel,
Please tell us your opinion of playing GUT using Finales (winning Numbers Last Digit 0 through 9) as GreatGrampa explains here:
x://betselection.cc/straightup/thefinalecrossing/
Can you suggest any improvements to this way of playing ?
Thank You,

Hi stringbeanpc,
Several years ago I stopped comments to other strategies.
I can only say that it is not following the idea of GUT. I´ve tested all chances with GUT and found them not working except straight up.
br
winkel