RNG Question

Maui13 · Oct 17, 03:35 AM 2012

Please don't post if it's fair or not fair...that's not the question here...

What I would like to know, is....

Let's take for example - Playtech RNG
You start gambling, and you manage to win...and win often.
The casino starts going through your sessions to see the way you play.
They then adapt their RNG code to give your method the negative 2.7% house edge...
You start losing...

So here is the question:

When code is modified/adapted to counter a certain method - does it not somehow open other exploits or loopholes, that was "plugged"?

Cheers
Maui

Ralph · Oct 17, 03:41 AM 2012

The casino do not need to check up your way of playing before putting in -2.7%, it is allways there.
A fair casino do not change the numbers according to how you play.

If you win first and then lose, its no different as from a live casino, a negative EV is allways present with some exceptions as BV NOZ, they tax your winnings instead.

superman · Oct 17, 04:44 AM 2012

QuoteThe casino starts going through your sessions to see the way you play.
They then adapt their RNG code to give your method the negative 2.7% house edge

Do you really think they would do this for every player? they would be paying much more for code changes/adaptations than they would be losing to the player, and what happens when the player stops playing on that platform? they put it all back? I really can't see any casino bothering to TRY and match a players method, they be working 24/7 to keep up

Maui13 · Oct 17, 05:08 AM 2012

Valid point Superman...

BUT if player X is costing them 100's of dollars...surely they would investigate?
I would target the "big guns" - check their methods....and combat it. (if I was the casino)

What do you think are these little incremental updates they keep doing every time you log in

Cheers
Maui

Proofreaders2000 · Oct 17, 07:22 AM 2012

Maui check the time between when you first start and when you see the manipulations.
From my observations RNG's give you about 8-10 minutes.

Maui13 · Oct 17, 07:29 AM 2012

Proof - so you think that they manipulate it that quick?

Proofreaders2000 · Oct 17, 07:32 AM 2012

Yes, actually quicker if you play the same system during that time--five minutes
(That's why I bring usually four or more systems when I play RNG.)

Maui13 · Oct 17, 07:37 AM 2012

Makes perfect sense! On Playtech RNG specifically I've had it that (in about that time frame) things go well, and all of a sudden -BAM!

After my lessons I learnt to stay away from Playtech - PERIOD

But coming back to my question - altering the software...does it not open other loopholes?
For example if you play 2 systems at once....

Maybe this topic is just stupid...but to me..it remains fascinating!

Proofreaders2000 · Oct 17, 07:46 AM 2012

As long as RNG doesn't recognize the system (one you haven't played
before on that RNG) in my opinion you may have an advantage.

If you play a system, don't play it again for two+ weeks.
(That's how long it stays in memory in my opinion)

Johnlegend · Oct 17, 08:23 AM 2012

Quote from: Ralph on Oct 17, 03:41 AM 2012
The casino do not need to check up your way of playing before putting in -2.7%, it is allways there.
A fair casino do not change the numbers according to how you play.

If you win first and then lose, its no different as from a live casino, a negative EV is allways present with some exceptions as BV NOZ, they tax your winnings instead.

Maui13 I hope you're wrong and Superman is right. By the middle of next year I will be at a level where. I'm taking over 100 euro a week. I want to know nothings changed...

Maui13 · Oct 17, 08:42 AM 2012

John - I have no doubt in your capabilities!!! All I'm asking is, that what really goes on behind the scenes. If I have a method, that rapes a particular casino...

They ban me (but in the background someone is investigating why I raped them)

I join another casino (they ban me too)

Wash ...rinse ...repeat... somewhere...they pick up that their code is flawed, they patch it up...

So while patching, does it expose other loopholes?

***EDIT - if they don't investigate...and I start a Youtube campaign, with my own website etc. people will get hold of my method...and soon many will be going through the exact same thing... So the casino's HAVE to patch...otherwise they'll go "bang" or am I wrong?

Johnlegend · Oct 17, 10:27 AM 2012

Quote from: Maui13 on Oct 17, 08:42 AM 2012
John - I have no doubt in your capabilities!!! All I'm asking is, that what really goes on behind the scenes. If I have a method, that rapes a particular casino...

They ban me (but in the background someone is investigating why I raped them)

I join another casino (they ban me too)

Wash ...rinse ...repeat... somewhere...they pick up that their code is flawed, they patch it up...

So while patching, does it expose other loopholes?

***EDIT - if they don't investigate...and I start a Youtube campaign, with my own website etc. people will get hold of my method...and soon many will be going through the exact same thing... So the casino's HAVE to patch...otherwise they'll go "bang" or am I wrong?

Id say there's a threshold of acceptability, there will always be plenty of losers to pay for the winners. How I would know there's foul play is a method that isn't even coming close to losing would suddenly start losing too often. I haven't walked out of a B&M casino without at least a small profit for 7 years. I rarely lose live online (even though you'll get plenty of silly gamblers crying fix, when their worthless systems collapse) And so far BV fun and real shows nothing suspicious. I took a backward step on Sunday. But that was down to me experimenting with an idea. And not having time to pull it back due to haviing to drive to the other side of the country. When I get back in front of my LT next week Il put that right. And continue the journey.

As long as I'm playing methods I know work. I only expect one outcome overall.

Johnlegend · Oct 17, 10:39 AM 2012

Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on Oct 17, 07:32 AM 2012
Yes, actually quicker if you play the same system during that time--five minutes
(That's why I bring usually four or more systems when I play RNG.)

Well that's what I've been doing Proof. There isn't one isolated method that can be figured out.

Ralph · Oct 17, 11:22 AM 2012

The cheapest dirty way an unfair casino can do is simply check for not betting numbers, they do not need to make any analyzes more than that.

I hear often if somebody win, it is the skill and theire methods, when they loose the casino is cheating.

They simply not need ti cheat, the odds make theire profit.

Johnlegend · Oct 17, 02:47 PM 2012

Quote from: Ralph on Oct 17, 11:22 AM 2012
The cheapest dirty way an unfair casino can do is simply check for not betting numbers, they do not need to make any analyzes more than that.

I hear often if somebody win, it is the skill and theire methods, when they lose the casino is cheating.

They simply not need ti cheat, the odds make theire profit.

Ralph I sincerely hope you are right on that. It will really mean something to Superman and me this time next year.

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RNG Question