Random.org vs actuals

[iggiv]

random.org does not reflect wheel patterns and behaviour

[nitrix]

@darrnyf: The thing with an online casinos is it's so easy for them to give you whatever number it pleases... that's why big (and trustable) casinos have their RNG tested periodically.

BetVoyager for instance generates 10 spins before hand and hash them. The hash (is displayed on screen) and won't change for the next 9 spins. That way, after those 10 spins, you can calculate the hash yourself from the numbers spun (they explains you how to do that) and you can check yourself they didn't alter the numbers to make you lose.

Anyway, all results should be similar, a.k.a, random. Its a quest that goes far beyond our understanding and is a fundamental for nearly everything in life.

You can observe the same behaviour at a super market where people will spread to different cashier. You'd think everybody will go for the smallest waiting line, right? That's not what happens.

You can observe randomness down the the Quantum Mechanics level too if you want; with the "Double Slit Experiment". Some atoms will chose to go left, others right: in a balanced but unpredictable fashion.

They are all the same. RNG, live wheel, dices, coins, weather, quantum mechanics, humans... Nothing can be predicted with accuracy.

My history teacher said once that, we humans, are the dominant specie only because of our ability to make associations and predict a future outcome according to this... ...... it's also why you cannot get your minds away of thinking about Roulette. You want to be able to accurately tell what will be the next result... tho it doesn't work with eveything. You need something that is consistent.

Roulette isn't. That's it. Just embrace it.

I'm no more actively looking for the Holy Grail anymore; I decided I'd simply play a system that gives me the most advantage possible, that is, with the bankroll I can afford to lose and hope for the best.

Call me a freak,
Random's by far creepier sometimes...

[darrnyf]

one of the best post i have ever heared ...superb nitrix...even i have stopped looking for the grail
when it comes to betvoyager..i have heared very much bad things about them...that they cheat and manipulate...but stil dont know the absolute reality

[Bayes]

darrnyf, I think you've misunderstood what nitrix was saying about BV. 

[Turner]

random.org does not reflect wheel patterns and behaviour

That sounds like a real wheel in a real casino isnt producing random numbers then.

See, I now have a problem with this in my head

Manchester 235 casino, wheel #2, dealer is Mark.
Wheel spins #13. Thats Black, in the second doz, in Col A, its Odd, its Low, its in street 5.

Random.org
#13

Whats the difference?

[Turner]

@darrnyf: The thing with an online casinos is it's so easy for them to give you whatever number it pleases... that's why big (and trustable) casinos have their RNG tested periodically.

BetVoyager for instance generates 10 spins before hand and hash them. The hash (is displayed on screen) and won't change for the next 9 spins. That way, after those 10 spins, you can calculate the hash yourself from the numbers spun (they explains you how to do that) and you can check yourself they didn't alter the numbers to make you lose.

Anyway, all results should be similar, a.k.a, random. Its a quest that goes far beyond our understanding and is a fundamental for nearly everything in life.

You can observe the same behaviour at a super market where people will spread to different cashier. You'd think everybody will go for the smallest waiting line, right? That's not what happens.

You can observe randomness down the the Quantum Mechanics level too if you want; with the "Double Slit Experiment". Some atoms will chose to go left, others right: in a balanced but unpredictable fashion.

They are all the same. RNG, live wheel, dices, coins, weather, quantum mechanics, humans... Nothing can be predicted with accuracy.

My history teacher said once that, we humans, are the dominant specie only because of our ability to make associations and predict a future outcome according to this... ...... it's also why you cannot get your minds away of thinking about Roulette. You want to be able to accurately tell what will be the next result... though it doesn't work with eveything. You need something that is consistent.

Roulette isn't. That's it. Just embrace it.

I'm no more actively looking for the Holy Grail anymore; I decided I'd simply play a system that gives me the most advantage possible, that is, with the bankroll I can afford to lose and hope for the best.

Call me a freak,
Random's by far creepier sometimes...

Actually, the double slit experiments finds 1 photon goes through both slots at the same time.

Anyhow, I am not really talking RNG here, I am talking how random are random.org with their method of producing random numbers. Is it "no different from a real wheel"

Random.org claim to produce pure random numbers using atmospherical noise or something:

RANDBETWEEN(0,36) in excel doesnt.

[Bayes]

There's a difference between a software RNG and hardware RNG. In a so-called pseudo-RNG, the numbers are generated from a "seed" (which could be initialised from the computer's clock) and then repeat after many cycles, so they're not really random but deterministic (although they're random enough for many purposes). A hardware RNG generates numbers from some natural process like radioactive decay. So I'm not sure where a roulette wheel falls in regard to these 2 types, maybe somewhere in between. 

BTW, the excel RNG is not a good one.

[nitrix]

Question guys: Would you rather toss a coin or pick a ticket from a hat (10 are heads / 10 are tails) ?

We agree they both have the same odds: 1/2 = 50% but would it affects the biggest losing/winning streak length?


I cant help but think it affects something somewhere...

[iggiv]

That sounds like a real wheel in a real casino isnt producing random numbers then.

See, I now have a problem with this in my head

Manchester 235 casino, wheel #2, dealer is Mark.
Wheel spins #13. that's Black, in the second doz, in Col A, its Odd, its Low, its in street 5.

Random.org
#13

what's the difference?

the difference is that one is created by a computer, another one -- by a dealer Mark and a physical roulette wheel. But u don't have to believe there is a difference. No problem with me.
one can see a glass as half empty, another as half full. Everyone is entitled to have his own opinion about it.

[Turner]

the difference is that one is created by a computer, another one -- by a dealer Mark and a physical roulette wheel. But u don't have to believe there is a difference. No problem with me.
one can see a glass as half empty, another as half full. Everyone is entitled to have his own opinion about it.

Sorry iggiv, I may have sounded like I was having a go. I wasnt.

I wanted to know what patterns and behavious appear in A: (William Hill live Casino actuals) that didnt appear in B: (random.org)

A:18,32,28,35,34,21,3,26,15,2,29,6,18,10,33,1,16,13,4,21,31,32
B: 21,16,6,1,10,4,4,32,24,7,21,11,18,19,22,15,2,36,22,8,3,9

Turner

[iggiv]

it is all not consistent my friend. Roulette wheel  behaviour is complicated, i can't tell u exactly that these patterns will work right now and those won't. it requires independent analysis and watching the wheel.
and a lot of hard work. Kimo Li's concepts help very much with it. Also You have to take to account that there are NO CONSISTENT patterns that repeat all the time. but if u use targeting areas around hot star and pie "centers of actions" u may realize there is something in it. You can use matrix for it or You can use a wheel itself (i recommend using matrices). You can use single numbers or You can use table layout for it. i recommend using table layout, You can reduce your initial bankroll dramatically  this way and use different streets, line, corners as your "variables" targetting "hot areas" .  by "centers of action" i mean where neighbours are hit. Also because roulette is "random" or "chaotic" or call it whatever (it changes its hot areas all the time) -- You have to make sure u don't use stiff approaches to all this. You have to introduce as many VARIABLES as possible into your betting.

good luck and happy winnings!

p.s. if u use RX to analyze real casino actuals with wheel behaviour vs "random.org" numbers with using the wheel u will see a difference. but again -- it is A HARD WORK and takes a lot of time and
patience. but hard work sometimes pays off. sometimes it doesn't. i can't guarantee u anything.

these are only my ideas about defeating roulette wheel...You can use them or You can ignore them

[Turner]

these are only my ideas about defeating roulette wheel...You can use them or You can ignore them

I'm not in the habit of ignoring anything. Everyone and everything is a teacher.

There must be something in the whole concept that a wheel made in virtually the same design from 1700's would produce different data than something produced after the millenium using computers and noise theory. For a start, RNG dont select 36 then decide it wasnt quite sat there and jump to 13.

I wonder if anyone has tried to make a genuine roulette generator. Not Random.org where you set between 0 and 36, One that runs numbers in the roulette layoutone way, then the opposite. Runs a process for around 30 secs like the time it takes from coupier to landing in the pocket. etc etc.

Starts the run from where the last run was like a croupier should.

Spils drinks all over your foot....like in a real casino lol

[Skakus]

 
I want someone to make a program that randomly places the numbers around a virtual wheel.

After every new rng result the program spits out a new wheel order.

It would be interesting to play hot sections with this as the section would be hot but the numbers would be new.

[Bayes]

Skakus,

Could you expand on this? not sure I understand what you mean but it sounds interesting. If after every spin you generate a new wheel order, then how do you know which sections are 'hot'?

A short example might help. 

[Bayes]

There must be something in the whole concept that a wheel made in virtually the same design from 1700's would produce different data than something produced after the millenium using computers and noise theory. For a start, RNG don't select 36 then decide it wasn't quite sat there and jump to 13.

If the wheel is random (all outcomes equally likely and independent) then all patterns will be the same regardless of how they were generated. If you create a 'virtual' wheel and test a system using numbers from random.org and compare with results from a real wheel you won't be able to tell any difference, even though there are no actual sectors. This must be the case because there's nothing special about the order of numbers around the wheel or on the layout - both are arbitrary and could have been arranged in countless other ways.

At times you will get 'hot' sectors on your virtual wheel, exactly the same as on a real wheel. But in the latter case, you will probably say it's because of dealer signature or bias or whatever, which could be true, but it isn't necessary at all because the trends and patterns will occur anyway.