The JL Challenge

[Drazen]

Iggiv i will just my opinion.

Through all time i am here whenever was some situation that required mod to interfier, you were the one that annoyed me a bit. Why? Because you were to good to say so. You were always giving too many chances to accused ones and to those who were told to stand up, because they werent behaving properly. And had too much patience.. Like mother Teresa. Always tried to patch up situation and going in explanations again and again.. If member didn't obey on no more no less 100th time being warned, finaly then he got banned.

But now, like you have gone mad. My opinion is you took all this too serious and behave too sharp. Deleting posts that are not inapropriate or rude. In my case, i was talking to JL and his challenge and there wasn't nothing out of topic there, so i feel offended by that manner of yours. Straight questions to the challenge about wheels and RNG-s and JL-s inconsistencies...

It is so obviously you defend JL no matter what you said... I didn't waited first possible situation to attack JL, i just warned and it so true, as TCS said little earlier here soooooooooo many inconsistensies in what JL was talking he will do and what he is doing. It is BS!!!!

Regards

Drazen

[Bayes]

Maybe it would be better if this thread were locked and JL started his own thread to update the results, then he can delete any posts that HE feels are inappropriate.

My view on this is that it's better to hold off criticism of JL's results until we have more of them. Come on guys, it's only been a few days!

On the other hand, it seems to me that iggiv is being a little too biased in favour of John. He says that JL has no reason to lie. Well, maybe not, but how does he KNOW that? and what about all those who haven't gotten good results with JL's systems? I did a poll a few months ago and something like 90% of those who responded said his systems were no better (or worse) than any others.

So what reason is there for THOSE people to lie?

I'm not suggesting that JL has any ulterior motives for his claims (such as he is leading up to a scam), but it seems to me that if you're just looking for reasons to lie, then there are more to be found for those who claim success than for those who claim failure.

The point of this challenge is to enable John to put his money where his mouth is. And let's not forget that he didn't have to do it. Let's give him the credit he deserves and the time to see it through, at least until he trebles his bank (which was the orginal goal).

[Kattila]

If JL has won with his systems its because he is lucky with the hit run, i belive he
is not a liar just lucky.
We never know what is next in the next hit run session, could be the W or the L.
This is why i agree with simulate some graphs to see how system will perform
in the long run, but even like this ( if win after 1.000.000 spins) in the next(s)
1. 000.000 spins will get different results. My opinion is if one system can beat
sometimes ( but various times) 50 000 or more spins, flat bet , it s playable.
But at the end don't we all play hit run ? No matter if play 10 spins or 300 spins sessions
this is anyway hit run, admit or not ...to win we all need good strategies,MM and also
some luck.


wish you luck JL ....you will need a lot  to beat RNG

[Bayes]

If JL has won with his systems its because he is lucky with the hit run, i belive he
is not a liar just lucky.

Kattila,

Sorry, but that won't do. JL has regularly updated results from playing his various systems, and they are FAR outside the bounds of luck. Luck is just standard deviation. That is, standard deviation is the quantification of "luck", so using statistical techniques, you can determine the probability of getting a particular set of results.

For JL to be consistently getting the results he is posting, it has to be more than luck.

[Drazen]

Mr. Bayes didn't you simulated hit and run once..  And we know how did it ended...

I have never heard some expert said playing very short bursts of play can help you and i think that is provable with simulations, right? 

So in this chain must be some weak link, i just wonder which will break first?

Cheers


Drazen

[Drazen]

 I ll take a break from all this and forum... I don't want to be considered as bashing or arguing guy.

And you are good guy iggiv as mod also doing good job, just in last situation things run amuck a bit seems to me for few of us...

This is last thing i will say about John and his play, and leave him in peace forever, wheter he will fail or succed i don't give a darn. Please don't delete this as i will say some facts what should be thought about when getting conclusions.

Main thing with that he was proclaiming was use of martingale in all his methods. And in some of our past debate he clearly said he will have enough high hit ratio to justify use of it.

Now he doesn't even using it and says he is against such things... No. 1 FAIL in consistency
This some questions about RNG you could also try to answre mr. iggiv

He says it is tough to beat Bayses RNG although he can't give any fact or reasonable explanation why this should be/is so.

Can he explain why there is a difference between independant Bayses RNG and live wheels he is playing on?

( we know story about gambling RNGs for real money, but this is not the case, RNG is any other honest and independant)

If RNG is independant (as Bayses is) and wheel unbiased there is no differnce, and i am sure if you will gave him spins from both he can't tell the difference...

He said he has special weapon for RNG. Again, why and what excatly is difference in randomnes of fair RNG and live unbiased wheel, and how and why excatly that method uses differnce in them to make profit?

And why all methods he was using till now were working on RNG worse then they should in live?

The only thing that was actualy giving him advantage was „hit and run“, right? And first time he played a lot of spins, failed into hole because of lot of spins played continously ( even without use martingale), then after reseting contest, again.

So how is possible for a person to do that who has one the strongest minds for playing roulette by its opinion and knows that breaking this rule will lead directly to fail by its opinion/experince?

I could witte more questions like if he now knows that some methods are behaving different then he expected and he knows how in which ratio, why can't he do it opposite and win?

But enough is enough...

Don't delete this post, or that will be definite end for me here!!!!

Ok if he can give understandable and reasonable fact answeres without just watch, i can't explaint it to you, ill raise his hand as a winner immedietaly as long as i am concerned.

I am not guided by feelings or emotions, just by pure logic and knowledge.

And questions are not off topic, insultive or meaningless.

Cheers

Drazen

[Robeenhuut]

Hola Iggiv

This is what a good forum should be about.... Sharing of ideas and unregulated criticism. Once you intervene in a flow then all burden is upon you. You are the one who will be always accused of taking sides. Are you ready for that?  If not you'd better shut it down.  But what do i know?  and i would not want to be in your shoes.  So let it be.... These things usually boil down pretty quickly.
If not we have some extra entertainment value like in cheese vs crackers exchanges @ vlsroulette 

Regards

[speed]

Luck is just standard deviation. That is, standard deviation is the quantification of "luck", so using statistical techniques, you can determine the probability of getting a particular set of results.

For JL to be consistently getting the results he is posting, it has to be more than luck.

Hi Bayes,  i don't agree that luck is standard deviation in all cases. What if we are play some positive progression in that cases we need deviation because its our weapon.

Hi Kattila, i agree wit you. 10 000 spins with a hit and run is the same as 10 000 spins a constant play.  Who does not believe let test.

[Bayes]

Hi Bayes,  i don't agree that luck is standard deviation in all cases. What if we are play some positive progression in that cases we need deviation because its our weapon.

Hi speed,

My point was that luck can be thought of as natural variance. If a blind man were to scatter chips on the table and he won a few hundred chips, then that's luck: the variance was swinging his way. But the luck won't continue for 1000s of spins.

[Bayes]

Hola Iggiv

This is what a good forum should be about.... Sharing of ideas and unregulated criticism. Once you intervene in a flow then all burden is upon you. You are the one who will be always accused of taking sides. Are you ready for that?  If not you'd better shut it down.  But what do i know?  and i would not want to be in your shoes.  So let it be.... These things usually boil down pretty quickly.
If not we have some extra entertainment value like in cheese vs crackers exchanges @ vlsroulette 

Regards

I agree. It's tough sometimes to find the line when you're a mod, especially if you happen to dislike a poster. Too much heavy moderation isn't good for the forum, we should try to remain impartial but it's not always easy.

There's some really weird censorship of certain words on this forum. For example a.b.s.u.r.d comes out as "illogical", and d.a.m.n. becomes "darn".

What gives? 

[Bayes]

Mr. Bayes didn't you simulated hit and run once..  And we know how did it ended...

I have never heard some expert said playing very short bursts of play can help you and i think that is provable with simulations, right? 

Hi drazen,

It's definitely provable with simulations. The only requirement is that the player stick rigidly and completely to the system, just as the computer does. Winkel used to talk about "gambler's intelligence" which involves NOT sticking rigidly to the system, but being flexible and dynamic in response to the flow of the game. That's fine, but as a set of rules it's far too vague to be programmed.

[justanothergambler]

Bayes, I tested your RNG and I admit its very fair and accurate with reel wheel. good job
I wish it has numbers bet

[albertojonas]

I believe when someone mentions Hit & Run, it means Win-Target & Stop-Loss. 

[justanothergambler]

I believe when someone mentions Hit & Run, it means Win-Target & Stop-Loss. 

thats how it should be actually.
when gambling we are playing against the unknown and under pity of randomness. I dnt believe of someones definition of H&R, like one member said HIT what ? and RUN where!!?
I believe in one thing , you have your gambling amount of money , when you go to play is either loose it all or stop when you want or tired.. otherwise I just have fun with friends there.

[Master_of_pockets]

iggiv which part of the "the spins are adding up , no matter if u play continiusly or with long breaks" You can not digest?

If a system can win in every visit because it makes high peaks and we are quiting as winners , then this also means that those hight peaks will let us win also in the long run by playing consistently....

And remember that when WE say long run , we don't only mean playing consistently 1M spins , but also play 1M spins with long breaks....

Breaks or not breaks in 1 M spins we will hit the down(oposite of a peak) and this is why 1M spins is needed as a test.