I have been thinking about the best way to present this system.
This is a complete system designed to give you the power to win 1 unit as many times as you wish.
I know that many on this forum will disagree with this, but I think it will work on any reputable on-line casino. You should probably log off and on periodically so they don't zero in on you. We can never trust them. I hate to say it, but I consider casino operators to be
little more than gangsters; on-line or brick and mortar. Maybe some aren't but most are.
This system is based on the power of multiplication. We will be using our money but also the casino's money.
It is based on the parlay method of betting. The idea is to bet 1 unit and if you win, bet 2 units (that's 50/50 with the casino), if you win bet 4 units (that's 25/75 with the casino), if you win, bet 8 units (that's 12.5/87.5 with the casino), if you win, bet 16 units (that's 6.25/93.75 with the casino).
So, given the right spin sequence, we can bet 1 unit and win 31 units from the casino. Okay, that means we have to win 5 times in a row. This is a common occurrence, although there is a small risk that there can be a sizable gap between 5-in-a-row wins. Fortunately, we don't always have to win 5-in-a-row to win our 1 unit.
To lose our progression, we will have to go as many as 300+ bets without winning 5-in-a-row. It could be fewer and it could be more.
This is an Even Chance system and as such it can be played on any even chance game. I don't suggest Blackjack since it's not a true even chance game, but BJ may work also taking into consideration the doubles and splits.
With our bet selection method, we will be looking for 6 patterns that will give us our 5-in-a-row. Those sequences are: RRRRRR, BBBBBB, RBRBRBRB, BRBRBRBR, BRRBBRRBBR, RBBRRBBRRB. That's it. If any of these pattern come up, we will win 5 times in a row.
I have detailed the bet selection method in other posts but I will go over it here. You can use this one or one of your preference. It must be a method that catches back to back wins. Some of the methods that are seeking for 1 win in 4 or maybe 5 bets will not perform well on this method.
Play follow-the-last 80% of the time.
You switch from FTL if you get RBR or BRB then you play opposite-the-last. Play OTL until you get BB or RR and then go back to FTL.
One other pattern you play for is doubles. If you get RBBRR or BRRBB you bet that the doubles will continue. Bet this way until you have a loss. When you have a loss you will have a BRB or RBR so bet OTL until you get RR or BB at which time you will revert back to FTL. That's it. Sweet and simple.
Progression:
This is what makes this system so powerful.
Math guys. Please feel free to blast this method with everything you have. I want everyone who plays this to be absolutely convinced in their own mind that this will work in spite of the mathematics against it.
As I said, the progression is based on the parlay or let-it-ride concept.
It is based on letting it ride 5 times.
The powerful thing about this 5 step parlay is that we're not just betting each time until we reach 5 wins and then take our profits, we're only going to bet as many steps as necessary to reach +1.
Anytime we reach +1 we will reset our progression to our 1st 1 unit bet.
In the beginning, we will only have to bet the 1st 1 unit bet 1 time. If it wins. +1 - Re-set.
If we lose our 1st 1 unit bet, we bet our 2nd 1 unit bet and if we win the first bet, we will be even and can once again start over.
We are going to buy in for 300/dollars units. Let's say our unit is $1. That means that all we have to do is win 3 units every day for 100 days or 100 attacks and we will have 600 units/dollars.
We will play for $1 units for 100 wins, 3 more times. When we have won 4
times we will have $1500. Set one $300 bank aside.
Combine the other $1200 into two $600 banks. This gives us 2 opportunities to win 100 days/attacks at $2 per unit. Play at $2 per unit until you have five banks of 300 units at $2 each or $600 per bank.
From here, you can do what you like. But, always leave a reserve bank or two in case the unimaginable happens.
The progression will be detailed in the next post.
GLC
Okay, here's the progression.
First I will write the number of units to bet and then the number of times to bet before we reach a new high and finally the number of units you will be ahead.
Bet Amt # times to bet Amt ahead if win
1 1X +1
1 1X 0
1 2X +1
1 2X 0
1 3X +3
1 3X +2
1 3X +1
1 3X 0
1 4X +7
1 4X +6
1 4X +5
1 4X +4
1 4X +3
1 4X +2
1 4X +1
1 4X 0
1 5X +15 From now on to recover totally, you must win 5 bets in a row
continue to bet 1 for 14 more times. After starting a parlay series by betting 1 for 31 times, we move to betting 2 to start our parlay series.
Bet 2 for 16 times.
Bet 3 for 10 times.
Bet 4 for 8 times.
Bet 5 for 6 times.
Bet 6 for 5 times.
Bet 7 for 5 times.
Bet 8 for 4 times.
Bet 9 for 3 times.
Bet 10 for 2 times.
If you lost the whole progression, you would lose 302 units.
I have tested this 10 times to +10 units and I've never gotten beyond the parlays that start with 1 unit.
We have a lot of flexibility with this system. We never have to bet beyond the 2nd, 3rd or 4th win. If we are betting starting with our 1st 6 unit series, we will be -164. If we win our first bet, 6+6=12 and we win our 2nd bet, 12+12=24, and we win our 3rd bet 24+24=48. If we get cold feet, we can subtract our initial 6 unit bet from 48 and we have won 42 units. We can subtract our 42 from 164 leaving us at -122. We were at -122 we would be betting our 7th 4 unit parlay. That means that we could move back down our progression line 8 steps. This would give us a little more breathing room.
Or you can go for 5 in a row and hope to recover all before it loses all 90 levels of the progression line.
Option #1:
Only play at the 1 unit level. That means we are going to risk only 32 units. You'll be surprised how rarely you ever have to go beyond the 1 unit level before winning your +1 unit.
If you lose 31 units, double the value of your units and play again. If you win 32 units at the doubled amount, you will have recovered your initial loss and be up 31 units. Now drop back to your original unit size. If you contintue to lose, play the modified fibonacci progression. 1-2-3-5 and stay at 5 until you finally break even. I can't imagine ever getting as high as 5, but maybe?
Option #2:
Stop at the 3 unit level. That's 93 units at risk.
Option #3:
Buy in for 5,000 units mirroring Winkel's "Win as much as you want betting strategy". Continue the progression line as far as you can for 5,000 units. If you test this a little, you'll see that it's butting up against impossible to lose 5,000 units playing this way. Not absolutely impossible, but close.
If playing option #1 or #2, why not wait for a trigger like 3 losses in a row and then start betting. You might hit your +1 with fewer bets.
That's it. You either play for a 1 unit win each day or you can play multiple times each day. Just take a short break if you play multiple times.
Or you be the boss. Practice it and decide how you like to play it and have fun. With a modicum of luck you should never see red with this system.
Test, Test, Test! Start small and build your bank gradually. Patience is a virtue.
George
Another 10 sessions to +10 and yet to have to start a parlay with anything but a 1 unit bet.
That's 200 units up playing on 0/00 demo game on Betvoyager. That means if I were playing Option #1, I would have risked 31 units 20 times and I still have my original bank.
Super lucky? I don't know yet. I just started testing. Time will tell.
Another option I take is if I've parlayed and am about to make the bet that will put me ahead, I only bet enough to give me +1.
Here's an example:
r
r bet first 1 on r on the next spin
b lose -1 bet 2nd 1 on b
r lose -2 bet 3rd 1 on b (remember rbr and we play for chops)
r lose -3 bet 4th 1 on r
b lose -4 bet 5th 1 on b
b win -3 bet parlay of 2 from 5th 1 on b
b win -1 next bet should bet parlay of 4 from 5th 1, but we only need 2 for +1 so only bet 2
b win +1 Re-set and bet first 1 on b
etc...
This may not look like a big deal and it may not be helpful at low numbers, but it helps recover quicker at times. Maybe it's being too cautious, but I like being "safe". I've been "sorry" way too many times in my life. Victor calls it "conscious betting".
I'm going to keep testing this one until it proves to me that it's not a long-term winner. So keep your eyes on this topic just in case it holds up as well as I think it might.
I'm also interested in seeing how my Options #1 and #2 perform. If I can keep from losing more than 3 in a row to +100, this may be the stone, cold mortals.
Remember, I think the power of this system is that it's based on using the casino's money seeking a win.
Also, the bet selection method is looking for 4 different sequences to win 5-in-a-row. I think this gives us a better shot at it over just betting say Red or Black. Just betting the same all the time means that you can't win on anything but 5 colors in a row. The other color and the chop sequences; BRRBBRRBBR or RBRBRBRB are losers in that case.
GLC
I just won 3 more sessions to +10.
All were what I call hard fought.
1st session I went to the 30th 1 unit series.
2nd session I went to the 10th 2 unit series.
3rd session I went to the 3rd 2 unit series.
Even at the 10th 2 unit point I was only down 51 units.
That's the most I've been down so far.
The 3rd session I tested the "Same/Opposite on FTL" to see how it would perform.
I didn't like it that much. Although, it wasn't horrible.
All I know is that I still won all 3 sessions to 10 which is 3.33 times more than I'm suppose to play for.
Good night,
GLC
It is somewhat more complex system but understandable and that's great. Let's try it.
Thanks for the method. Really like it. Tryed it with ever even bet I could think of with less than 2% house edge. Works realy well.
Just one question. We are playing for a one unit win.
Let us say that we are down 10 units.
We win this seires
First 1 unit bet, win we are at -9
Second 2 unit bet, win we are at -7
Third 4 unit bet, win we are at -3
Fourth bet Do we double to 8 or only bet 4 to give us the one unit win?
Quote from: Phishalot on Jul 03, 08:45 AM 2011
Thanks for the method. Really like it. Tryed it with ever even bet I could think of with less than 2% house edge. Works realy well.
Just one question. We are playing for a one unit win.
Let us say that we are down 10 units.
We win this seires
First 1 unit bet, win we are at -9
Second 2 unit bet, win we are at -7
Third 4 unit bet, win we are at -3
Fourth bet Do we double to 8 or only bet 4 to give us the one unit win?
That's a personal choice my friend.
I just bet enough to get to +1. If you win the bet at 4 units, you forfeit the 4 extra units you would have won had you bet 8. But, if you had lost, you saved yourself 4 units and can actually stay at the same level for the next attack.
This helps keep your bets smaller somewhat. It may not make enough difference to give up the extra units. Like I said we will each have to decide what we like most.
One other point. I notice that Fripper has re-opened his "Beating roulette with math" system. I like that system and am not saying anything negative about it, but if we carried this bet progression out to a 1500 unit bank, would it ever lose?
I don't have that answer. But, just like he said, it probably will at some place and time but how far ahead of the game will we be when it happens.
I think it's probable that for a lot of us if we invested 1500 units in a lot of these systems we might never lose all 1500 units.
If any of you want to test this with a 1500 unit bankroll, I am going to post the progression in the next post.
Here is the progression for winning 5 times in a row. Anytime you win five times in a row starting at a new level, you will be at a new high point and should re-set to the 1st level.
Just so we're all clear on this bet progression, it is a martingale based on winning 5 parlays in a row.
There are 139 levels. The following chart gives us the number of units we are down at each level (A), the 1st bet size at each level (B) and the number of units we win if we win all 5 parlays (C).
Here goes:
A B C
-1 1 +31
-2 1 +30
-3 1 +29
-4 1 +28
-5 1 +27
-6 1 +26
-7 1 +25
-8 1 +24
-9 1 +23
-10 1 +22
-11 1 +21
-12 1 +20
-13 1 +19
-14 1 +18
-15 1 +17
-16 1 +16
-17 1 +15
-18 1 +14
-19 1 +13
-20 1 +12
-21 1 +11
-22 1 +10
-23 1 +9
-24 1 +8
-25 1 +7
-26 1 +6
-27 1 +5
-28 1 +4
-29 1 +3
-30 1 +2
-31 1 +1
-33 2 +31
-35 2 +29
-37 2 +27
-39 2 +25
-41 2 +23
-43 2 +21
-45 2 +19
-47 2 +17
-49 2 +15
-51 2 +13
-53 2 +11
-55 2 +9
-57 2 +7
-59 2 +5
-61 2 +3
-63 2 +1
-66 3 +30
-69 3 +27
-72 3 +24
-75 3 +21
-78 3 +18
-81 3 +15
-84 3 +12
-87 3 +9
-90 3 +6
-93 3 +3
-97 4 +31
-101 4 +27
-105 4 +23
-109 4 +19
-113 4 +15
-117 4 +11
-121 4 +7
-125 4 +3
-130 5 +25
-135 5 +20
-140 5 +15
-145 5 +10
-150 5 +5
-155 5 0
-161 6 +31
-167 6 +25
-173 6 +19
-179 6 +13
-186 6 +7
-192 6 +1
-199 7 +25
-206 7 +18
-213 7 +11
-220 7 +4
-228 8 +28
-236 8 +20
-244 8 +12
-252 8 +4
-261 9 +27
-270 9 +18
-279 9 +9
-288 9 0
-298 10 +22
-308 10 +12
-318 10 +2
-329 11 +23
-340 11 +12
-351 11 +1
-363 12 +21
-375 12 +9
-388 13 +28
-401 13 +15
-414 13 +2
-428 14 +20
-442 14 +6-
-457 15 +23
-472 15 +8
-488 16 +24
-504 16 +8
-521 17 +23
-538 17 +6
-556 18 +20
-574 18 +2
-593 19 +15
-613 20 +27
-633 20 +7
-654 21 +18
-676 22 +28
-698 22 +6
-721 23 +15
-745 24 +23
-770 25 +30
-795 25 +5
-821 26 +11
-848 27 +16
-876 28 +20
-905 29 +23
-935 30 +25
-966 31 +26
-998 32 +26
-1031 33 +25
-1065 34 +23
-1100 35 +20
-1136 36 +16
-1170 37 +11
-1208 38 +8
-1247 39 +1
-1288 41 +24
-1330 42 +14
-1373 43 +3
-1418 45 +22
-1465 47 +39
-1513 48 +23
Sorry about the columns lining up poorly, but you can see it clearly enough.
The reason I wanted to give you the whole chart is so you can make some conscious decisions.
For example: If you are at the 20th level and you have won 20X2=40, 40X2=80, 80X2=160, 160X2=320 you have a decision to make. Do you bet for the 5th win and have 640 units and completely recover or would it be better to back up to the 1st 10 which is where 613-320=293 would put you.
Personally, I would move back to the 1st 10 level which gives me another 22 levels before I'm back to the 1st 20 level.
I may have even moved back after the 80x2=160 win. I could move back to the 1st 15 level.
In other words, if you are having a streak from you know where, you can always choose to not bet all the way to the 5th parlay if you win 3 or 4 parlays and you're very close to the end of our bet progression.
Also, if you only play until you are at a new high, you won't play for 5 parlays on the 1st 15 levels of 1 units bets because you won't need to to be at a new high.
If you think about this progression for a while, you will see that it gives you a lot of options to keep from ever losing your entire 1500 units.
I have a series of 20,000 continuous spins from the same wheel at Casino Macao. I think that I will start playing this system on those spins and see how far I can go before I lose the entire bank. I have to play until I'm at a new high before I can reset. In other words, no conscious decisions. Straight 5 step parlays except for the initial 1 unit bets when I can reach a new high without having to bet all 5 parlays.
I'll keep you posted.
GLC
This took me a little bit to wrap my puny brain around, but now I see how brilliant it is! :thumbsup: You are right about how versatile your bet selection is, changing to the table to maximize opportunities to snag one of the patterns you have outlined in your description. I played my first legit round tonight up to the +10 unit stop-point and was impressed at how quickly it came.
I have a date with the Sandman here in a few minutes, but I will revisit this method through the upcoming week. I have a great feeling about this - nicely done!
Phishalot, Matrivo, Colbster, nice to see some interest from you guys.
I need some new brains looking at this. Mine's a little old, but still works pretty good.
I do think there's a lot of possibilities with this concept.
Not sure I've come up with the best use of it, probably not.
Let's see if it has any legs! :thumbsup:
I'm not married to any part of it. Progression, bet selection method, their just the 1st way I thought of.
LOL,
GLC
Quote from: GLC on Jul 03, 10:37 PM 2011
Mine's a little old, but still works pretty good.
Peoples say Old is Gold but I say you are Diamond for Even Chances :twisted: ! :thumbsup:
you have proved it again!
thanks
catalyst
N.B. Could you please explain a bit more regarding the bet selection for this system.
Quote from: GLC on Jul 03, 01:43 AM 2011
The 3rd session I tested the "Same/Opposite on FTL" to see how it would perform.
I didn't like it that much. Although, it wasn't horrible.
could you please explain how you did this bet selection?
thanks
catalyst
Quote from: catalyst on Jul 04, 08:53 AM 2011
Peoples say Old is Gold but I say you are Diamond for Even Chances :twisted: ! :thumbsup:
you have proved it again!
thanks
catalyst
N.B. Could you please explain a bit more regarding the bet selection for this system.
We have 3 basic patterns we're playing for. In all 3 we're looking for repeats. We can use any of the even chances, but I'll use Red/Black for explanation.
1. Our main pattern is Follow the last color.
2. Our 2nd pattern is if we get 2 chops such as RBR or BRB. Anytime we get this pattern, we continue to follow the chops. We go back to follow the last color on our 1st loss.
3. Our 3rd pattern is if we get doublets such as RBBRR or BRRBB. Anytime we get this pattern, we continue to follow the doublets. On our 1st loss, we will start betting for chops because we will have a RBR or BRB pattern like this: BRRBBRRBR or RBBRRBR.
That is the bet selection method I have been using. It does well finding streaks.
There's the killer pattern that we could jump on which is BRRBRRBRRB. We lose every bet on this pattern once we're in it. I've been thinking of adding it to the 3 above patterns. We could start it at the end of a chops pattern like this BRBRBRR. With the last Red we have lost our chops pattern and would normally return to betting follow the last but we could instead start betting for our killer pattern like this BRBRBRRBRRBRRB.
All of this pattern seeking is really preference only. Another way that's easier and probably just as effective is to play the penultimate (same as 2nd to last color) and if you get 4 losses in a row it's because you are having doublets RRBBRR and as long as they continue you will lose every bet. After 4 losses in a row you can switch to betting opposite the penultimate until a loss and then switch back.
We can use any of the even chance systems on the forum. If there's one you like such as Pattern 4 or many others. We don't have to bet every spin.
Hope this wasn't over kill.
GLC
Example:
r Next bet is r (follow the last)
r Win. Next bet is r follow-the-last
r Win. Next bet is r follow-the-last
b lose. Next bet is b follow-the-last
b win. Next bet is b follow-the-last
r lose. Next bet is r follow-the-last
b lose. Next bet is r. 2 chops so brb signals switch
r win. Next bet is b follow-the-chops
b win. Next bet is r follow-the-chops
b lose. Next bet is b follow-the-last
r lose. Next bet is r follow-the-last
r win. Next bet is b because we have doublets RBBRR
b win. Next bet is b follow-the-doublets
b win. Next bet is r follow-the-doublets
b lose. Next bet is b follow-the-last
etc...
Cheers,
George
Just a note from my sessions:
Not all doublets will end RRBBRBR, moving us to chops. I have had more end RRBBRRR, where I have moved successfully to follow-the-last.
Just a slight addition.
Quote from: Colbster on Jul 04, 10:54 AM 2011
Just a note from my sessions:
Not all doublets will end RRBBRBR, moving us to chops. I have had more end RRBBRRR, where I have moved successfully to follow-the-last.
Just a slight addition.
Thanks Colbster. I did overlook that one in my explanation. I've been playing this form of tracking so long it's second nature to me.
What do you think about adding the RRBRRBRRBRRB pattern?
I know that when the chops and doubles are bouncing back and forth is when you get your long streaks of losses. That can't be overcome with any mechanical bet selection method that I'm aware of.
Tomla021 mentioned that while he was playing Iceman1313's system, he got a lot of win clusters. It might be worth playing it with Icey's bet selection. As always, enough testing to make a fair determination is one of the main hurdles to overcome.
Our trade-off from just betting a single color is that with a single color we only have to have 5-in-a-row. With our trot we really have to have 6-in-a-row for a win on 5 parlays.
Any thoughts on that trade-off?
Good Luck,
GLC
Any more than exist in your present form will just be more confusing, leading to less interest and more errors. No matter how many tweaks you throw into the mix, there will be a pattern that can beat it. As you mentioned, it is rare to go high up the progression as it is, so I don't think the extra pattern is necessary.
At some point, we would be playing some sort of hybrid-differential betting method that would be impossible to track. Before I really read your explanation, I jumped onto a play table and was trying to play all the patterns simultaneously, which was a nightmare. I like the way you have it outlined currently, and am looking forward to seeing the longer-term results. So far - fantastic! ;D
Considering how easily the wins have been coming, there might be a valid argument for only going 4-deep on the parlay. This would allow you to have a lot less risked, with shorter growth to the next levels of the progression. Still, if the hit rate remains this solid, it might be worth changing bankroll requirements and making a end-of-parlay win twice as likely.
Quote from: Colbster on Jul 04, 01:23 PM 2011
Considering how easily the wins have been coming, there might be a valid argument for only going 4-deep on the parlay. This would allow you to have a lot less risked, with shorter growth to the next levels of the progression. Still, if the hit rate remains this solid, it might be worth changing bankroll requirements and making a end-of-parlay win twice as likely.
I like the way you thinking Colbster.
My problem is that if we start with $1, we will have to be able to bet $768 units on a 48 unit starting bet. I don't have access to a table with anywhere near that kind of spread. At least not B&M and I haven't ventured out into the world of on-line roulette yet. I keep hoping our gov't will give us a break with on-line betting. But, I think the Vegas and Atlantic City casinos have too much influence in Congress.
I do have an airball machine with 6 screens that will accommodate 100 quarters on each screen. I could bet up to level 37 if no one else is playing at the time. Of course, I would probably never go all the way to the 5th bet if I were that far along in the progression. Way too risky for my blood.
I haven't started testing against my 20,000 live spins yet, but should get some down time later tonight. The family's celebrating the 4th of July at our house, so we've been cleaning and cooking and entertaining everyone. No time for roulette. The wifey would be ticked if she knew I sneecked of to take a peek at what's going on on the forum.
GLC
Nice work George, I'm definitely going to give this a whirl. :thumbsup:
Regarding bet selection, my trend following system (link:://rouletteforum.cc/bet-selection/a-fun-system-for-trend-players/) can turn up some impressive winning streaks, and it's very easy to use. The problem with trying to 'plug holes' in any BS is that you're subject to the law of 'conservation of losses'; fixing one weakness just tends to shift it elsewhere. You can find the nemesis of any BS just by writing down the pattern which will occur assuming that every bet results in a loss, then having found it ask yourself: 'what are the chances of this pattern occurring?' and the answer, of course, is: 'the same as any other pattern'.
However, I'm not of the opinion that all BS are created equal. While I doubt that any will give positive results in the long term flat betting, my research shows that some are better than others with regard to drawdowns. Even simple DBL is better than betting one side continuously. I think this is due to diversification, which is mathematically proven to reduce variance. For example, taking DBL vs betting one side, you are not 'putting all your eggs in one basket' so much with DBL as betting one side, because DBL wins on chops and streaks on either side, whereas betting one side depends for its success on the side you've chosen being dominant.
Note
BS = Bet selection, not bovine excrement. ;)
...and DBL = Decision before last, not Dublin Bet.
(Bayes, I think, is not sponsored by the a fore mentioned casino!)
Quote from: chrisbis on Jul 05, 03:22 AM 2011
...and DBL = Decision before last, not Dublin Bet.
(Bayes, I think, is not sponsored by the a fore mentioned casino!)
:wink:
Regards
Drazen
Working backwards, take your table max and divide by 16. For instance, a table that has 300 unit max can play up to 18 (288 max bet with parlay). According to my quick count, that is 110 steps into your progression. That is considerably farther than the 64 or so steps that you advocate in option #2, allowing us to only step up to the 3rd level of the progression.
The drawback that we run into is predictable - we will drastically shorten our progression by moving up to higher starting amounts with accumulated winnings. Depending on the table, we might be able to circumvent this by artificial bets, most easily on L/H instead of R/B or E/O (we could place smaller bets on each line or street to mirror larger bets on High or Low - best on BV no-zero because you don't have so many chips hanging out for the green goblin!)
So far, still looking stellar. I haven't made it into the 2nd level yet, although I have had to climb a ways up into the first. Won cleanly every time so far, though! :thumbsup:
Quote from: Bayes on Jul 05, 03:03 AM 2011
Nice work George, I'm definitely going to give this a whirl. :thumbsup:
Regarding bet selection, my trend following system (link:://rouletteforum.cc/bet-selection/a-fun-system-for-trend-players/) can turn up some impressive winning streaks, and it's very easy to use. The problem with trying to 'plug holes' in any BS is that you're subject to the law of 'conservation of losses'; fixing one weakness just tends to shift it elsewhere. You can find the nemesis of any BS just by writing down the pattern which will occur assuming that every bet results in a loss, then having found it ask yourself: 'what are the chances of this pattern occurring?' and the answer, of course, is: 'the same as any other pattern'.
However, I'm not of the opinion that all BS are created equal. While I doubt that any will give positive results in the long term flat betting, my research shows that some are better than others with regard to drawdowns. Even simple DBL is better than betting one side continuously. I think this is due to diversification, which is mathematically proven to reduce variance. For example, taking DBL vs betting one side, you are not 'putting all your eggs in one basket' so much with DBL as betting one side, because DBL wins on chops and streaks on either side, whereas betting one side depends for its success on the side you've chosen being dominant.
Note
BS = Bet selection, not bovine excrement. ;)
I remember your trend following system, Bayes. I will look at it again. If it gives us streaks more often, that's what we want. Even if we have losing streaks as well. We don't really care about losing streaks as long as we get a winning steak within 65 levels if we use 4 as our cut-off point or within 139 levels if we go all the way to 48. That could be around 250-300 bets to find 5 in a row of something.
Will this ever lose a full progression? Of course it will. As we all know, the question isn't will it lose, but will it win enough more than it loses to make it worth playing.
GLC
Bayes,
Somehow I managed to miss your trend-following system (Probably because it said "fun" in the title and I couldn't imagine how making a ton of money could be anything other than monotonous and painful - might have been shortly after I blew a bankroll!).
I just reviewed your system and I think it would fit brilliantly with this progression method that George has given us. Very good contribution on this one!
Just an aside - Playing Bayes' system with the Hollandish progression now, and it seems like it could be epic!!
And by epic, I don't mean great, I mean "Oh my god, will this ever recover??!!" For those of you that are familiar with the Hollandish, I took it to the 16th level before coming even. I have never gone that high before. My imaginary bankroll was sweating bullets (imaginary bullets, too, for those of you who opined against our right to carry guns in ADulay's post :wink: )
not sure if should post this here but your bet selection gave me inpiration.
been messing with labouchere, as seen by my last system posted.
i found a fixed labouchere of 10/1's with your bet selection to be very very effect.
thank you.
p.s if this doesn't belong here np just delete mate. although i found this system to be very interesting and well thought out, just seemed very high risk,time consuming and for very little profit in comparision.
For a little different bet method, please see the following linK:
link:://rouletteforum.cc/full-systems/even-chance-tour-de-force-ii/msg61242/#msg61242 (link:://rouletteforum.cc/full-systems/even-chance-tour-de-force-ii/msg61242/#msg61242)
GLC
Quote from: GLC on Jul 05, 03:24 PM 2011
I remember your trend following system, Bayes. I will look at it again. If it gives us streaks more often, that's what we want. Even if we have losing streaks as well. We don't really care about losing streaks as long as we get a winning steak within 65 levels if we use 4 as our cut-off point or within 139 levels if we go all the way to 48. That could be around 250-300 bets to find 5 in a row of something.
Will this ever lose a full progression? Of course it will. As we all know, the question isn't will it lose, but will it win enough more than it loses to make it worth playing.
GLC
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I'm testing this betting follow the last colour and reseting at every high, even if i've not won 5 times in a row
500 consecutive spins, max drawdown so far -47, max bet 2 of my units and would be up by 167u
vundarosa
GLC:
"Just so we're all clear on this bet progression, it is a martingale based on winning 5 parlays in a row.
There are 139 levels."
GLC are you saying we have 139 chances to hit 5 in a row and still be units ahead.......?
I might have missed something...........
Quote from: amk on Aug 23, 06:56 PM 2011
GLC:
"Just so we're all clear on this bet progression, it is a martingale based on winning 5 parlays in a row.
There are 139 levels."
GLC are you saying we have 139 chances to hit 5 in a row and still be units ahead.......?
I might have missed something...........
---------------
yes, because you're betting double at each win, so if win at 1u bet, bet 2u then bet 4u,8u & 16u to recover and be ahead.
in my testing, i've so far had to go to betting 9u to be ahead when i was -270u down.
i wonder if a 3 wins in a row progression would yeld better results....?!
vundarosa
I still have to fully comprehend this method but a 3 wins in a row progression sounds better vundarosa................
I once had a method which had 55 chances/spins of landing a street that just landed. Played HIT AND RUN could be effective? I will have to review my notes for I played this method months ago.........
It did well on RNG but stopped playing after I discovered that RNG cannot be trusted. At the time I felt that this method was not suitable for live play, however...............?
Quote from: amk on Aug 23, 06:56 PM 2011
GLC:
"Just so we're all clear on this bet progression, it is a martingale based on winning 5 parlays in a row.
There are 139 levels."
GLC are you saying we have 139 chances to hit 5 in a row and still be units ahead.......?
I might have missed something...........
AMK,
Yes, if you are willing to risk 1513 units, you have 139 chances to win 5 parlays in a row and if you follow the chart I posted, you will be at a new high bank anytime you win 5 times in a row and let-it-ride or parlay each time.
Per the chart, let's say you just bet 47 units and didn't reach 5 parlays before losing. That means you are -1465 units.
Your next bet is 48 units. You win and now have 96 units. That's 1 parlay. Let the 96 units ride and it wins giving you 192 units, that's 2 parlays. Now let the 192 units ride and we win which gives us 384 units on our 3rd parlay. We let the 384 units ride and win which gives us 768 units on our 4th parlay. and finally we leave the 768 units on the table and win our 5th parlay giving us 1536 units. We were down 1465 units. 1536-1465 = +71 - the 48 units of our money which isn't winnings gives us +23 units. And we go home a winner.
Granted that would have taken you at least 3 hours depending on how fast the spins are at the table you're playing at because we have 138 losses plus all the wins in between that don't get counted because they weren't 5 in a row. It could be as many as 300+ spins to win that 23 units.
Of course this is a rare occurrence since we expect to win long before 138 losses.
If you have 5000 units per Winkle's "Win all you want" money management system, you could add close to 70 more losses bringing it to 200+ losses. You could also increase the number of wins to 6 in a row or even 7 in a row. This would triple or more the number of attempts to win at. How often do you think you would have to lose 1000 times before seeing a 7 in a row winning streak.
You would have to be very unlucky to ever run up against that much bad luck. This is assuming you can find a table that has enough of a bet spread to be able to handle the large bets that would be necessary for say 7 in a row.
Seven in a row starting at 50 units is the following:
50=100
100=200
200=400
400=800
800=1600
1600=3200
3200=6400
As you can see, given enough money and a large enough minimum to maximum bet spread, this system is virtually unbeatable.
GLC
Hello GLC,
I still a haven't grasped the method completely..........
I due feel that it's concept has great potential..........
Smaller units would be great as well as a quicker turnover............
I look forward to seeing if this is possible................
Any thoughts about the street method I mentioned...........?
Sorry AMK,
I don't know the street method you are talking about.
Have you posted it on the forum? If so, tell me where or provide the link to get me there and I'll look at it.
G
AMK,
Here's the simplest way I can explain it.
Let's say we are only betting on Red.
We put 1 chip on red. If we win we add that chip to our profits since it brings us to a new high bank.
We put 1 chip on red. If we win, same as above.
We put 1 chip on red. If we lose, we are -1.
We put 1 chip on red. If we lose, we are -2.
We put 1 chip on red. If we lose, we are -3.
We put 1 chip on red. If we lose, we are -4.
We put 1 chip on red. If we win, we are -3 and
We leave the 2 chips on red. If we win, we are -1 and
We leave 2 chips on red. If we win, we are +1.
We put 1 chip on red. Lose -1
1 chip on red. lose -2
1 chip on red. lose -3
1 chip on red. lose -4
1 chip on red. win -3
Leave both chips on red. lose -5
1 chip on red. lose -6
1 chip on red. win -5
Leave both chips on red. win -3
leave all 4 chips on red. lose -7
1 chip on red. lose -8
1 chip on red. lose -9
1 chip on red. lose -10
1 chip on red. win -9
Leave 2 chips on red. win -7
leave 4 chips on red. win -3
leave 8 chips on red. win +5
1 chip on red. lose -1
1 chip on red. win 0
1 chip on red. win +1
that's it. Keep playing it that way. remember the most number of times you leave all the chips on the table is 5 times. If you started with 1 chip, you will have 32 chips on the table if you win the 5th parlay.
GLC
The progression presented here is just a suggestion.
You can always start with 1 unit after a loss.
Stay with 1 unit after reaching a new high bankroll.
In other words if you lose 55 times in a row and then win 5 in a row you will have recovered 31 units of the 55 lost and you will be down 24 units. Continue to start each attack with 1 unit. You are looking to win 5 in a row multiple times close together to bring you to a new high point. Another win close will net another 31 points to put you about even and then another 5 in a row close will put you up.
You'll be surprised how often it happens without needing more than 50 or so units.
George
Ever feel like you're talking to yourself? I do after all you guys go to bed and I'm still up here in the Mountain Standard time zone.
Anyway, to give you something to read 1st thing in the morning, I'll carry on.
There's nothing sacred about 5 parlays in a row. You can do 4 parlays in a row and you can do 3 parlays in a row.
Here's a suggestion. Start out shooting for 3 parlays in a row. If you go for a while and are down say 24 or so units, shoot for 4 parlays in a row. If you find yourself going longer without a win, you can move to 5 parlays in a row to recover your losses.
Right now I'm testing the 3 parlays in a row idea and it moves at a faster pace than the 5 parlays in a row, but it also recovers pretty quickly and if I start having more and more losses without 3 in a rows, I just stay with it and sure enough, I get 3 or so 3 in a rows close together and it pulls me out of the hole.
Heck. Maybe 2 parlays is what we should be playing.
GLC
What you mean by 2 parlays? How would you play 2 parlays?
GLC:
Ever feel like you're talking to yourself? I do after all you guys go to bed and I'm still up here in the Mountain Standard time zone."
Would be cool if a few of us could link up in a casino...........
Quote from: GLC on Aug 24, 11:19 PM 2011
Ever feel like you're talking to yourself? I do after all you guys go to bed and I'm still up here in the Mountain Standard time zone.
Anyway, to give you something to read 1st thing in the morning, I'll carry on.
There's nothing sacred about 5 parlays in a row. You can do 4 parlays in a row and you can do 3 parlays in a row.
Here's a suggestion. Start out shooting for 3 parlays in a row. If you go for a while and are down say 24 or so units, shoot for 4 parlays in a row. If you find yourself going longer without a win, you can move to 5 parlays in a row to recover your losses.
Right now I'm testing the 3 parlays in a row idea and it moves at a faster pace than the 5 parlays in a row, but it also recovers pretty quickly and if I start having more and more losses without 3 in a rows, I just stay with it and sure enough, I get 3 or so 3 in a rows close together and it pulls me out of the hole.
Heck. Maybe 2 parlays is what we should be playing.
GLC
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GLC,
what progression are you using for 3 wins in row?
vundarosa
Quote from: vundarosa on Aug 29, 01:40 AM 2011
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GLC,
what progression are you using for 3 wins in row?
vundarosa
This is a new way that I'm testing and it's doing pretty well. Hard to tell if it's any better that the progression I posted to find the dominant color.
I play for 3 in of a kind.
Example: If I get B I play for B to continue. Once I get BBB I play for it to switch to Red. If it stays on B so that I have BBBB I play for 2 more B's and then I switch to Red and play for 3 of those.
The perfect sequence is RRRBBBRRRBBBRRRBBB etc...
I also play for 3 chops. If I get BRB I play RBR. If I win those, I play for BRB etc... As soon as I get a loss, I play for that color to go 3 times.
I also play for doubles. If I get BRRBB I play for RRB and if I win those 3 I play for it to continue. When it ends, if I have BBB or RRR, I play for the opposite color to hit for 3 times.
When it ends, if I have BBRB or RRBR I play for the chops to continue for 3 times.
Any time I'm playing for 3 of a kind and I only get 1 or 2 and then lose, it means I've gotten this RB or RRB so I just start playing the new color for 3 of a kind.
r play for it to repeat again
r play for it to repeat again
r now play for b to hit
b play for it to repeat again
b play for it to repeat again
b now play for r to hit
b play for b to repeat again
r play for r to repeat again
b play for chops to continue
b play for b to repeat again
r play for r to repeat again
r play for b to hit (doubles)
b play for b to repeat again
b play for r to hit
b play for r to hit
r play for r to repeat again
etc...
As soon as I get a
GLC,
do you have a let-it-ride progression for 3 wins in a row akin to this 139 levels prog you've posted here?
vundarosa