i suppose everybody knows the "follow the dozen" method. :D
i found a nice progression somewhere on the forum.
1a 2u standard bet on loss always go 1 step down, on win follow "back to ..."
1b 1u back to 1a
2a 2u back to 1a
2b 1u back to 2a
3a 4u back to 1a
3b 2u back to 3a
4a 7u back to 1a
4b 4u back to 4a
5a 14u back to 1a
5b 8u back to 5a
6a 24u back to 1a
6b 15u back to 6a
7a 44u back to 1a
7b 28u back to 7a
8a 80u back to 1a
8b 52u back to 8a
until now i only reached step 6b in the progression.
maybe some others will test it more
Very interesting. Thanks. 8)
Is there any version for two dozens? Maybe GLC knows one?
Not bad, 288 units total
Just did a quick test, got to 7a once (13 losses with 1 win between), a total of +51 in 100 spins
not bad at all
This is a happy day in the life of GLC.
I love progressions and this is a new one for me too.
I will start working on double dozens using the same logic as this.
We should be able to put together progressions for all the bet locations.
Thanks so much for posting Stepkevh. :xd:
Great GLC. That's what we expected O0 .
NICE ONE.
Not as great as I had hoped.
Here's the logic behind the single dozen progression Stepkevh posted. We bet (1a) 2 units. If we win we win 4 units. If we lose we are -2 units. Now we have to win 2 in a row. That's 1b at 1 unit and then 1a again.
If we lose 1a and 1b, we will recover all losses plus 1 or 2 units if we win 2a. So 2a must be large enough to recover all previous losses. If we happen to lose our 2a bet, once again we have to win 2 times in a row to fully recover. That's 2b and 2a.
Each level is based on that same idea. Fully recover if win the (a) bet or if lose the (a) bet win the (b) bet plus the (a).
So you either have to win the 1st bet at the new level or if you lose the 1st bet you must win the 2nd bet and then the 1st bet to fully recover.
For double dozens the progression either must skyrocket for each level or we must win multiple times on each bet to keep the unit bet sizes manageable.
I worked out a simplified method based on double dozens. There are many other options, but none better or worse.
1a 1-1 repeat
1b 1-1 go to 1a
2a 3-3 (2 times) go to 1a
2b 3-3 (2 times) go to 2a
3a 9-9 (2 times) go to 1a
3b 9-9 (2 times) go to 3a
4a 27-27 (2 times) go to 1a
4b 27-27 (2 times) go to 4a
etc....
On the 1st level of 1-1 all we have to do is win 1 time to recover. After the 1st level we have to win each bet 2 times to fully recover. This makes sense because we are getting paid half the amount of a single dozen.
Another benefit is that if we win the (a) bet and then lose the (a) bet we drop down to the (b) bet, but we have only lost half of the (a) bet so if we win the (b) bet 2 times, we only have to win the (a) 1 time because we've already won it once.
It's even more complicated than that because if you win the (a) bet and then lose the (a) you drop down to the (b) bet. If you also win the (b) bet and then lose the (b) bet, you don't have to drop to the next level because you will have won enough to actually be exactly where you would have been had you just lost the (a) bet so now you can re-bet the (b) bet and if you win it 2 times you can move back up to the (a) bet and if you win it 2 times, you have fully recovered and can re-set.
You will have to re-read the last paragraph a few times and write a sequence down on paper keeping track of where you are after each win and loss to understand it correctly.
Is this better than any other double dozen bet? It's a little more convoluted, but I don't think it's going to be better. You will have to decide that for yourself by testing it.
George
Maybe an unnatural dozen would have a better strike rate than just betting low-middle-high dozens. Seems like natural bets always hit the long losing streak. Just some thing to look into. GJ
Maybe try the original progression at the beginning of the thread, but on all 3 dozens they will each have there own progression,just an idea.
hi everybody
I posted this because i wanted to see how far it gets in the progression by everyone.
For me it only got to 6b (15u) and for sogget until 7a (44u).
I hope some other people are testing it also because i want to know if its going to break the 8b.
Otherwise i have to add another level.
@Warrior, thanks for the tip,
People that are playing on BV can try to do this on 2 dozens with there own separate progression
Because you can't bet on 3 dozens at the same time in BV, maybe in other casinos ?
Meanwhile i'm gonna try to find a progression for the double dozen.
Nobody wondered what to do with the "0" :D
Its just like like a loss and bet again on the last fallen dozen
I figured that about the zero
If we play virtual until 4 losses then we only risk 84 units to max 6b, maybe look into that
I don't think more steps will solve anything couse of the table limits, eventually you'll hit the roof
But it is very interesting if you play on one dozen (or each dozen own progression like mentioned before)
Maybe with a better bet selection?
Quote from: Stepkevh on Jul 11, 01:43 AM 2012
hi everybody
I posted this because i wanted to see how far it gets in the progression by everyone.
For me it only got to 6b (15u) and for sogget until 7a (44u).
I hope some other people are testing it also because i want to know if its going to break the 8b.
Otherwise i have to add another level.
@Warrior, thanks for the tip,
People that are playing on BV can try to do this on 2 dozens with there own separate progression
Because you can't bet on 3 dozens at the same time in BV, maybe in other casinos ?
Meanwhile i'm gonna try to find a progression for the double dozen.
Nobody wondered what to do with the "0" :D
Its just like like a loss and bet again on the last fallen dozen
For sure it will reach as far as your progression can go. It's just a matter of winning enough along the way so when you have to take a loss it's not devastating.
Regarding betting all 3 dozens simultaneously, no problem. Warrior meant that we keep a separate progression accounting for each of the dozens but since we're only betting on double dozens, we never bet all 3 at the same time. It's just that whenever we need to bet a dozen, we put the proper units on them.
GLC
Thought I would post the progression for even chance bets following this same design.
1a 1
1b 1
2a 3
2b 3
3a 9
3b 9
4a 27
4b 27
5a 81
5b 81
If you lose the 2nd 81 unit bet you will be down -241 units.
Test it and you'll see that it's not a half bad progression.
As you can see it climbs at a pretty good clip when you don't have the 2:1 payoff.
i wonder if this is applicable to the Hybrid DC4 + PCWB tweak. ill try it later :xd:
thanks GLC!
i wonder if this is applicable to the Hybrid DC4 + PCWB tweak. ill try it later :xd:
thanks GLC!
Hello all,
I was playing with the dozens again this morning and hit the roof with the progression
Not that it wondered me, was just waiting how long it would take.
Then i played some stupid bets further until i did something that made the BR rise up with 128u.
I started to bet on 2 dozens with seperate progr like Warrior suggested.
I did not use the prog. mentioned above yet, will test it later.
I just used 1u up on losing dozen and on win reset that dozen to 1u.
Just because it was easier to follow without pen & paper :)
Maybe something to go deeper into (following progr as in 1st post) ??
Quote from: Stepkevh on Jul 12, 03:36 AM 2012
Hello all,
I was playing with the dozens again this morning and hit the roof with the progression
Not that it wondered me, was just waiting how long it would take.
Then i played some silly bets further until i did something that made the BR rise up with 128u.
I started to bet on 2 dozens with separate progr like Warrior suggested.
I did not use the prog. mentioned above yet, will test it later.
I just used 1u up on losing dozen and on win reset that dozen to 1u.
Just because it was easier to follow without pen & paper :)
Maybe something to go deeper into (following progr as in 1st post) ??
really? what step did it go to? and would the 4 virtual L's help?
it went to step 11, on the 12th i had a win.
i know that you loose some units if the bet is getting higher but it goes right up again after al the short
LW's.
Quote from: Stepkevh on Jul 12, 07:40 AM 2012
it went to step 11, on the 12th i had a win.
i know that you lose some units if the bet is getting higher but it goes right up again after al the short
LW's.
Isn't 11 6a?
then it didn't bust the progression at all
or am I missing something?
did another test with 90 numbers, got to +49, highest bet was 6a (24 units)
with waiting for 4 L then playing it would have ended +20, highest 4a (7 units)
no i mean in the progression by just adding 1u / loss and resetting on a win,
that was going until an 12u bet.
the original progression busted this morning
Okay back with an update on the progression and played it on double dozens.
Each their own progression offcourse.
In my first post you went up 1 level in the prog on a win.
In the new one, you go up 3 levels on a win.
It goes as follow
bet loss win profit
1a 1 -1 +2 2
1b 2 -3 +4 3
2a 2 -5 +4 1
2b 3 -8 +6 1
3a 5 -13 +10 2
3b 5 -18 +10 bet on 2a
4a 10 -28 +20 2
4b 10 -38 +20 bet on 3a
5a 20 -58 +40 2
5b 20 -78 +40 bet on 4a
6a 40 -118 +80 2
6b 40 -158 +80 bet on 5a
7a 80 -238 +160 2
7b 80 -318 +160 bet on 6a
if it would be needed
8a 160 -478 +320 2
8b 160 -638 +320 bet on 7a
9a 320 -958 +640 2
9b 320 -1278 +640 bet on 8a
i added an excel with my last game, it went until 80u bet (7a), so 12 losses and the 13th was a hit.
Hopefully this holds better.
Quote from: Stepkevh on Jul 12, 09:03 AM 2012
no i mean in the progression by just adding 1u / loss and resetting on a win,
that was going until an 12u bet.
the original progression busted this morning
I was asking about the original progression in the first place
how did it bust and how far did it go?
just had 2 quick sessions of 60 spins each, both got to 50+, still using the original progression
Quote from: Stepkevh on Jul 12, 09:05 AM 2012
Okay back with an update on the progression and played it on double dozens.
Each their own progression offcourse.
In my first post you went up 1 level in the prog on a win.
In the new one, you go up 3 levels on a win.
It goes as follow
bet loss win profit
1a 1 -1 +2 2
1b 2 -3 +4 3
2a 2 -5 +4 1
2b 3 -8 +6 1
3a 5 -13 +10 2
3b 5 -18 +10 bet on 2a
4a 10 -28 +20 2
4b 10 -38 +20 bet on 3a
5a 20 -58 +40 2
5b 20 -78 +40 bet on 4a
6a 40 -118 +80 2
6b 40 -158 +80 bet on 5a
7a 80 -238 +160 2
7b 80 -318 +160 bet on 6a
if it would be needed
8a 160 -478 +320 2
8b 160 -638 +320 bet on 7a
9a 320 -958 +640 2
9b 320 -1278 +640 bet on 8a
i added an excel with my last game, it went until 80u bet (7a), so 12 losses and the 13th was a hit.
Hopefully this holds better.
you mean we go up 3 levels on a LOSS don't you?
Just one notice guys.If you gonna use it don't try with dozens but any other 3 sectors (wheel or table based).Basically when you use separate progressions for playing 2 dozens there are 2 things that can kill you.The third dozen hits more that it should or one of the two dozens hits a lot more than the other one.This is why i only play sectors with common progression.If you want something simple play 2 sectors +1 unit on loss and stay even on a win.You usually need a streak of 3-4 wins to be back in profit something that it's pretty common.
Step, I see in your spreadsheet you are only betting dozens 2 & 3. If you include dozen 1 also, with a bet selection method that can pick any 2 or the 3 dozens, it may work by being a little less volatile. Still only betting 2 dozens at a time.
I also want to point out that I have posted progressions for playing a dozen with parlays. This system is a little like a let-it-ride bet.
If you win betting on 1 dozen you will have 3 chips on the table, let-them-ride and a 2nd win in a row will have 9 chips on the table. Minus your original chip = 8 chips net.
The kicker with this system is the factor that it climbs at a rate that is steeper because of the added element of being able to recover on a single win if you hit on the 1st bet in a level.
It might be tweakable for some improvements.
GLC
Quote from: soggett on Jul 12, 09:11 AM 2012
you mean we go up 3 levels on a LOSS don't you?
no, on a win, ex. if you win on 4b you go to 3a to place a 3a bet, if you win that one you can reset your progression to 1
Quote from: soggett on Jul 12, 09:09 AM 2012
I was asking about the original progression in the first place
how did it bust and how far did it go?
just had 2 quick sessions of 60 spins each, both got to 50+, still using the original progression
its because i played on 1 dozen and had a 12l then a win and then 12l again, so it should go way over the original progression (26 steps or so)
@ GLC
you mean switching dozens while you play, one time you play 2-3, other bet you play 1-3 ??
Quote from: xxlakis on Jul 12, 09:37 AM 2012
Just one notice guys.If you gonna use it don't try with dozens but any other 3 sectors (wheel or table based).Basically when you use separate progressions for playing 2 dozens there are 2 things that can kill you.The third dozen hits more that it should or one of the two dozens hits a lot more than the other one.This is why i only play sectors with common progression.If you want something simple play 2 sectors +1 unit on loss and stay even on a win.You usually need a streak of 3-4 wins to be back in profit something that it's pretty common.
and by sectors you mean ? nrs. 1-4-7-10 for example ?
separate progressions on the last two dozens might work well on this. If 1 dozen is clearing out and the other isnt a step back on the bad progression might work out
@ tomla
thats what i thought also
i was even thinking by adding the colums to
Quote from: Stepkevh on Jul 12, 09:51 AM 2012
and by sectors you mean ? nrs. 1-4-7-10 for example ?
Yeap something like that.And try to be flexible.Play hot and cold sectors together trying to catch trends(if they exist).
Quote from: Stepkevh on Jul 12, 09:46 AM 2012
its because i played on 1 dozen and had a 12l then a win and then 12l again, so it should go way over the original progression (26 steps or so)
I see, the dozen was cold, but why didn't you play follow the last like you instructed?
Quote from: soggett on Jul 12, 10:23 AM 2012
I see, the dozen was cold, but why didn't you play follow the last like you instructed?
that's what i did, i followed the dozen till it hit on the 13th time and then it began to run again like an i-d-i-o-t till the 13th time, but till then my progression was already busted (needed 6 steps more)
Quote from: Stepkevh on Jul 12, 11:02 AM 2012
that's what i did, i followed the dozen till it hit on the 13th time and then it began to run again like an i-d-i-o-t till the 13th time, but till then my progression was already busted (needed 6 steps more)
oh, well thats bad...
but the progression is nice, maybe different bet selection?
Here's a new twist on this progression. Please note that it's still based on having to win 2 in a row after losing the 1st bet of a level.
We start each level with a bet amount that if we win, it will bring us to a new high bank.
If we lose, we will bet an amount such that if we win, we can bet the amount we won and if we win again, we will be at a new high bank balance.
If we lose the 1st bet in a level and win the 2nd bet in a level then lose the 3rd bet in that level, we will have won enough to bet the 2nd bet in that level again.
Our 1st level is unique in that if we win either bet, we will be up and can stay at level 1.
Here's an example:
If lose Bet amt If win
1a -1 1 +2 Repeat if win
1b -2 1 +1 1a if win
2a -4 2 +2 1a if win
2b -5 1 3a if lose 2c if win
2c 2 +2 1a if win 2b if lose
3a -8 3 +1 1a if win
3b -10 2 4a if lose 3c if win
3c 4 +2 1a if win 3b if lose
4a -16 6 +1 1a if win
4b -19 3 5a if lose 4c if win
4c 6 +2 1a if win 4b if lose
10
5
10
18
9
18
31
16
32
55
28
56
96
48
96
-501 168
-587 84
168
These last levels just follow the same pattern as the top levels. As you can see, if you happened to lose each level, you would lose 587 units. If you stop at the 8th level like the original post did, you will only be down 191 units. A little savings.
The nice thing about this is that if you lose the 1st bet and then win the 2nd bet, you only bet on the 3rd bet what you won on the 2nd bet. This saves the units for the 2nd bet in case you have to play it again.
This means that if you win the 1st bet of a level, you recover fully.
If you win the 2nd bet of a level, the worst you can do is get to repeat the 2nd bet of that level until you lose the 2nd bet or win the 3rd bet also.
I know it's a little complicated, but with a little study, you should be able to follow what I'm suggesting.
Enjoy,
George
BTW, I see no reason why this can't be used on Hybrid DC4 or any other double dozens system. You just have to have 3 separate progressions. 1 for each dozen.
It'll tank every now and then.
So what's new?
GLC
Yes, this can be used for any bet selection
I just had a bust of the original progression, it went 19 losses and then 4 hits, but if I had been doing bet 1 dozen then 2 dozen then 3 dozen it would have been +40 in about 80 spins
so we need a good bet selection
maybe betting on the 2 hotter dozens, each with its own progression?I don't know, will need to think about it a bit
GLC thanks, looks very good, lots of steps ;)
my second progression that i posted here works well on seperate dozens
okay, back again and again with some changes.
This time with betting on the 3 dozens AND colums, all with seperate progression.
This gave me 137u in 60 spins ;D
Its holding very well this time and there's added an extra check to change from doz/col.
I used the line bet strategy from Atlantis, if the number that falls is BO/RE bet on 1/2 & A/B
and if its the opposite BE/RO bet on 2/3 & B/C.
Keep the bet freezed on the doz/col that is'nt played.
You will see in my excel file.
Any questions are welcome, but i think the sheet is clear enough :D
Thanks Stepkevh ;)
It sounds very interesting.
A tracker would be desirable.
Try this progression with 2 PAIRS it under the testing threads.
Quote from: jarabo002 on Jul 13, 11:00 AM 2012
Thanks Stepkevh ;)
It sounds very interesting.
A tracker would be desirable.
yep thats what i thought to but dont have the knowledge to make one.
i dont even know how to automate excel sheets :(
If we want to bet all dozens in separate progressions, we can do it. Some casinos not let you, but we can do it. We have to use a clever way, and save chips if any zeros shows, or we are not allowed.
Some chips should be virtual, we play three dozens, but THE LOWEST NUMBER OF CHIPS on each dozens are virtual, as theycancel each other, no use to put them at the table anyhow.
Always no "real" chips on one dozen.
Same goes for EC, if we bet red and black in separate progressions, we use a lot of virtual chips.
Five on black and three on red, is the very same as two on black, and cheaper if it is zero on the wheel. We need not so big bankroll either.
test on bayes rng, positif.
Here are the results:
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
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[attach=5]
[attach=6]
[attach=7]
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[attach=9]
[attach=10]
can you see where it tanks ? col b and doz 2 i think ?
maybe if you think about some money management system to apply to this system it is going to make some profit consistently
i'm looking to apply the rules from other dozen bet together with my set of rules.
if dozen gives 5 loses wait till next win trigger to continue betting.
because the MM is already tight enough i think
i did some further testing with the ro,be,re,bo matching with around 300 spins from bayes rng.
i changed the roberebo for the columns and came up around +655 units.
i think it needs a little deeper look now.
:)
Hi Stepkevh,
Only thing I do different is to stop betting on the dozens if an EC type repeats... e.g. BO,BO stop until change - but that is just personal preference in case the numbers decide to go on a particular EC repeat sequence (I've seen it happen lots) but maybe in the end with your tailor-made progression that might not matter so much with the columns now also factored in too
What cols are u now betting in conjunction with the D1,D2 and D2,D3 bets ?
A.
doz 1/2 together with col b/c and d1/3 with col a/c.
i personally dont have much problems with continuely betting while the EC's repeat.
you can see it in the excel
and this is the latest test.
always following the last 2 unique doz/cols.
again tested with bayes rng for 400 spins -> +615u