Ken
MrJ
I play Roulette Evoloution. I called it "Roulette Revolution", which is part of my slight dsylexica/. I add letters and things to words.
I find it totally fair and somewhat predictable. We get tons of repeaters at Riverwind.
I like the one-minute time frame. I get into a rhythm and go like a daddy rabbit.
Sam
......but do you feel you have a SMALL advantage (this might be the first time ever using that word) over an actual dealer because of the 100%, non-bias spins?
Ken
"""""""""""......but when an actual dealer spins the ball, he/she does have the OPTION at wheel speed, WHERE to release the ball and at what speed to release it. Would that still be the definition of random?"""""""""
Yes Mr. J this is still random.
Because if the dealer can hit a sector in a wheel then this means that:
The wheel is tilted AND it has a scatter pattern of the scatter of the ball.
So If the above are true , then a VB player can also win in this wheel .... no matter what speed the dealer will give to the rotor and the ball , the vb player can adapt(measure) to those speeds and bet acordingly(if the 2 conditions that i posted above are OK)
You are a person that doesn t beliave in VB(ap).....so you should be the 1st person that you should have the opinion that a dealer can t aim a sector of the wheel....
You must chose :
1) VB can t win....so the dealer can not aim a sector OR
2) Vb can win .....so the dealr can aim a sector.
You are saying something completely oposite...that VB doesn t work , but a dealer can aim a sector in wheel....
Also no matter how many spins the ball will make or no matter what is the rotor speed, IF u don t have a tilt and a scatter pattern , then even if the dealer spin the ball and the rotor with the exact same speed in every spin, the outcomes will also be RAMDOM....
TRUE, I don't believe in it but it does raise a good point in regards to....the dealer DOES have control over certain aspects of spinning while Roulette Evolution has none (supposedly)
Ken
Quote from: MrJ on Aug 03, 08:42 PM 2012
TRUE, I don't believe in it but it does raise a good point in regards to....the dealer DOES have control over certain aspects of spinning while Roulette Evolution has none (supposivly)
Ken
Yes sure ... dealer can decide the speed he / she is gonna give to the ball and the wheel but why do u care if the wheel doesn t have a cairtain stop point(TILT) and an average(steady) Jump of the ball(from the strike point number to the outcome number)? Not to mention that even if a wheel has this conditions you must also have a very trained dealer to do it....
So if u don t have those 3 factors, u don t have to worry about anything....you are playing in a random generator machine.
That's fine but is it cool with you if I ask OTHERS their viewpoint?
Ken
Did I lock the Topic?
You asked a question that involves the physics of the game...I know about this subject and I replied.
I can t see where is the problem....
Quote from: Master_of_pockets on Aug 03, 08:51 PM 2012
Did I lock the Topic?
You asked a question that involves the physics of the game...I know about this subject and I replied.
I can t see where is the problem....
No problem. If the topic bothers you in anyway, shoot me a PM and I'll delete it. Sorry for the troubles.
Ken
For 1 more time I ll say that you asked for opinions...
I gave you mine...(actually it s not mine...its the physics opinion)
Take ir or leave it....
I can t understand why you made the conclusion that this topic bothers me....
I did nothing more or less than just a simple reply to your question
ht? Drop it. When people here get agitated, I click on 'posts' from that pers
Ken
Quote from: MrJ on Aug 03, 09:02 PM 2012
Geez, are you bored tonight? Drop it. When people here get agitated, I click on 'posts' from that person and start reading the last 30-50, looking for a PATTERN (found one).
Also, I must have asked this question at least 200 times over MANY years and RARELY do I get an answer......why is it that Advantage-play guys are more pissed at the world and attempt to put down method guys, all the while, its not (in general) the other way around? I STILL wait for that answer. Its like a CULT or something.
Ken
Mr J I think those AP guys have done bad things to ur phycolocy and when a person tells you that knows about the physics of the game you IMEDIATELY think that he is one of them LoL.
Yes I was playing VB before a lot of years and i was winning good.But now with the given conditions I can t play anymore so I am one of you Mr J....I am back in system playing and exploring .....
So you got upset without any reason....
I ll say once again that u asked a question that involved physics...and u got a reply.
I really can t understand why you tryed to pick up a fight....Jesus!
be cool , I am not the enemy....Apers aren t here . LoL
Quote from: Master_of_pockets on Aug 03, 09:11 PM 2012
Yes I was playing VB before a lot of years and i was winning good.But now with the given conditions I can t play anymore so I am one of you Mr J....I am back in system playing and exploring .....
What conditions are those?
@Masterofpockets >> I'm talking about Advantage-play guys in general. Do me a favor (it'll take a couple weeks). Read every roulette forum and every post in regards to the Advantage-play crew vs. method guys and tell me if you do not notice a BIG difference between the two.
Name calling and overall being arguementative in terms of roulette. Its AT LEAST an 80%/20% difference. Once again though, I'm NOT saying this is YOU.
Ken
Quote from: MrJ on Aug 03, 09:22 PM 2012
@Masterofpockets >> I'm talking about Advantage-play guys in general. Do me a favor (it'll take a couple weeks). Read every roulette forum and every post in regards to the Advantage-play crew vs. method guys and tell me if you do not notice a BIG difference between the two.
Name calling and overall being arguementative in terms of roulette. Its AT LEAST an 80%/20% difference. Once again though, I'm NOT saying this is YOU.
Ken
Mr J it will not take me a couple of weeks because I have already read almost all the topics-posts about the APers-method players and I already know the diferences between them...
Let me tell you my opinion in this subject and please don't get one more time upset...(some of my views will make u happy )
1) IF IF IF we find a Biased wheel (that favours the bias players to get the advantage) and IF IF IF we find a tilted wheel with a scatter pattern (that will favour the VB players) then Advantage-play is indeed a winning way and the more you play , the more u win.
You are having also a REASON of WHY you are winning with those ways.
Bias reasons :
a)bad pockets
b)bad cone
ETC are making the ball to stick in those pockers more...so You have a clear advantage so you can win in the long run
VB reasons:
Ball stop + average jump of the ball(scatter) make you able to predict (through measurements and NOT Voodoo) where the ball is luckily to stop...
so also have a genuine reason of why you can win in the long run
2)Method players UNFORTUNATELY(because I am also one of them now) can t win on the long run....simply because maths-stats-voodoo aren t a real reason of why to win.
3) (this is the point that you will love because i know how much u hate Apers)
Advantage-play is almost DEAD in 2012.....
WHY?
Because casinos are aware of those 2 Advantage-play methods and they have taken measurements for the Aps not to be able to win
The measurements:
Perfect wheels without biased pockets or tilts or scatter patters(small light balls ,low frets etc.
SO the conclusion is this:
Apers are desperate these days...they can t win ...or they can t even play(because they can t find any conditions)
So what they do is living with the past and remember those glory days...
And because they can t win-play anymore , they have the hobby to start fight with the method players....
I hope I solved all your questions that You have for so many years....
Ps. Advantage-play is a way to win , methods can t win(at least till now).
But now that Advantage-play doesn't exist ... they are both the same....
This was my opinion .... take it or leave it
"And because they can t win-play anymore , they have the hobby to start fight with the method players" >>> Thank you, this is all I needed.
Ken
Quote from: Master_of_pockets on Aug 03, 09:43 PM 2012
1) IF IF IF we find a Biased wheel (that favours the bias players to get the advantage) and IF IF IF we find a tilted wheel with a scatter pattern (that will favour the VB players) then Advantage-play is indeed a winning way and the more you play , the more u win.
You are having also a REASON of WHY you are winning with those ways.
So you're saying they've come up with better wheels and the new wheels have been adopted almost industry wide...except for a few hard to find casinos...and not for much longer?
sure Mr J.
Apers can t find the opportunities that they were finding in the 90s and back.
But let me tell you that on those glory years an Aper can be rich from this kind of play...
wile the methods players couldn t be rich back those days and they still can t. :)
I know perfect level VB and I have very sharp eyes...
In Foresters video VB competition that Kelly,Snowman and Lawrence scot took part I had the most accurate predictions from all of them.
I have 2 casinos near me that both have 40 wheels and I am NOT playing VB any more...this can tell you a lot!
Like when martingale was invented and casinos put the bet limit , casinos did the same for the Apers....they took measurements to prevent then for winning-playing.
This measurements are showing CLEARLY that Advantage-play is EFFECTIVE.
But if You can t use them then they are worthless.
Now the tilt is so small-light that even the changing of the temperature or the barometer can take away the tilt....so no more oportunities....
yes still
So Mr J IF your point of view is that:
Advantage-play is indeed a REAL way to win in roulette BUT the conditions that favour the Advantage-play are very rare nowdays , then you are ACCURATE!
And because I like you Mr J I will tell you a phrase that you should tell to any Aper and shut his mouth....copy/paste it :)
You will be saying this to VB players
""You claim that you win with VB? So Where is this Casino that in 2012 still has wheels with Domimiand Drop Point + Ball Track knee point + Heavy Big ball + Hight Frets + the dealer call No More Bets very late? Are you living in a 3 world country or did you dream of these conditions or do you have a time machine and you are going back in the 80s? If no then tell me where this casino is located and I ll come and play VB too"" ;)
Then the Aper (lier in this case if he is claiming that he still wins with Advantage-play) will not have something worthable to say.
Hi MOP
In Foresters video VB competition that Kelly,Snowman and Lawrence scot took part I had the most accurate predictions from all of them.
Thats very interesting
I dont recall ever seeing a VB competition that Forester put up ?
D1.
MrJ
I still hold fast to the belief that the dealer has no influence over the outcome of the game. Therefore, I find no difference in real and RE, except that it "seems" to have more repeaters.
I'll go a little weird here........................
There are days when there are tons of repeaters and days where there are not. I can almost tell when this is going to happen within about ten minutes. I'm wondering if the RNG is being seeded in a certain way to cause repeaters. Not intentionally!
I've read some TRNGs use minute variations in barometric pressure for their see. If the pressure was all over the place, we'd get a greater dispersion. If the pressure was very constant, we might get a similar seed and more repeaters.
And that may be just a bunch of hooey!
Sam
Quote from: TwoCatSam on Aug 03, 11:21 PM 2012
MrJ
I still hold fast to the belief that the dealer has no influence over the outcome of the game. Therefore, I find no difference in real and RE, except that it "seems" to have more repeaters.
I'll go a little weird here........................
There are days when there are tons of repeaters and days where there are not. I can almost tell when this is going to happen within about ten minutes. I'm wondering if the RNG is being seeded in a certain way to cause repeaters. Not intentionally!
I've read some TRNGs use minute variations in barometric pressure for their see. If the pressure was all over the place, we'd get a greater dispersion. If the pressure was very constant, we might get a similar seed and more repeaters.
And that may be just a bunch of hooey!
Sam
Thank you for staying on topic sir. 8)
Ken
Quote from: Master_of_pockets on Aug 03, 10:16 PM 2012
And because I like you Mr J I will tell you a phrase that you should tell to any Aper and shut his mouth....copy/paste it :)
You will be saying this to VB players
""You claim that you win with VB? So Where is this Casino that in 2012 still has wheels with Domimiand Drop Point
Mind the rest, are you think on one DD?
Up to which degree of tilt you think wheels can be beaten?
Cheers
@ Master of pockets
It is so sad and low that you are taking yourself as some roulette guru and your behaviour is like you are the best and most knowledable expert in the world, but you are just dumb troll here, because on one hand you are saying correct things but at the same time they are not correct at all.
You are the one who is bitter and lives in sardonic world becasue it can't beat the game, and fights on forums with everyone and gets million of bans in every one of them without exception.
If one could summarize your opinion it could clearly said that for game of roulette it is impossible to be professional player. That is wrong.
I know some longterm system professional players who managed to create edge(or some not LoL) and doing good.
About VB, it is wrong that is dead. True that conditions are not as they used to be, and one can't creat so big edge as in the past, but it is still achievable, and while writting this people and teams are playing it succesfully. Be sure about that.
Although modern, finding perfectly leveled wheel is same hard as finding perfectly tilted wheel.
It seems to me that you have stuck in the past with one DD. 2-3 DD-s are not so hard to find, and it requires more data tracking for such game, but still you can create an edge...
Things between 1-3 DD is up to each individual... if you will understand. And beating leveled wheel to some degree also is impossible for you to understand, so i won't even mention it >:D
So claiming all that i see you are not so great after all. Opposite actualy.
It is obviously that you have entered only in your local casino only, becasue i can show you where you can very easily find 2 -3 pin games which you can take advantage off...
And out of 40 wheels it is so impossible that all are perfectly leveld with using ping pong balls LoL
You said you are not Advantage-play guy, but do you know that you are doing favour to us with this on the dark side? It is better that less people are trying and in the end doing it, thinking that is impossible :thumbsup:
Cheers
Drazen
Drazen If u will read your post u will immediately understand( i hope) that it s u that You are the troll.
You have no experience in VB and all You know is just theory and phrases that other Aper are using.
Wile I am not only theory...I was a VB player in the past.(with great success)
As for taking advantage of 2 DDs or even 3 is something that DO exist in my solid knowledge on the physics the wheel...so don't worry I know all about it and I have also played in 2 DD wheels with a nice rotor speed that was making the position overlapping and winning no matter which of 2 DDs the ball was hitting. :)
I hadn t played in a 3 DD wheel because I never liked playing withe a tiny advantage.I wasn t there to gamble , I was there to win.
Let me educate you and make u able to use some more Advantage-play phrases LoL
Nowdays the main problem is NOT the Tilt.(it s a big problem but not the main one)
The main problem is the scatter....low frets and light balls(casinos measurements) that are jumping like crazy makes the scatter to have no steady stop(pattern)
So combining the LIGHT Tilt+the bad scatter you have conditions that can t produce an advantage...
With this bad scatter even if you have a wheel with strong tilt , you can still lose because of the bad ball scatter....so imagine what is happening(if You can) if you don't even have a strong tilt.
An other big issue is that nowdays the ball track is so smooth the knee point almost doesn t exist...and without it you can t make a prediction becaue u don t habe the indication of the correct revolution to make teh prediction.
Yes sure in a 2 DD wheel with a spread scatter a 1% advantage can be gained...BUT i would never play with a 1% advantage that is not even stable....because the light tilt can be affect by the temperature and barometer changing and the LIGHT tilt can be gone immediately....(and all the hard work that you have done by data recording is a lost case)
If u will ask other VB players will also tell you the same thing.
Most VB players has abandoned VB and turned into Bias play because nowdays is the only kind of play that has a slight advantage...but not like the old days.
So theory from action has a very big deference ... Just talks can t make u a winner...
Go and try to find the nice conditions and I will come and join you and play ... I ll come there with a BR of 300 chips and make it 1 M .
Before some months I was in my casino and found a wheel with 2DDs.
After 300 spins data that I took from each direction of the ball so 600 total spins ( a lot of days and hours data recording) it was proven that there was no scatter pattern, so I couldn t take advantage of that wheel and i didn t play ....
VB isn t stable anymore because the conditions don't allow it.
After so many years that casinos were losing money from the Apers they had to do something...and they did....
Do you think that IF VB was still a way to win , there would be sites that sells VB techniques?
Sure not! they would keep the secrets to them selves and making money...
If you have a logic and you will use it , you will see that I and the other VB players (that don't BS the forums with lies) we are right.
And even If someone was so lucky that found a casino that has 1 wheel with the correct conditions , they can t take advantage on their owns..... They need a team to play Camo style.
The one must be making predictions and the other one must be betting....because as soon as the eyes from the sky spot a player that looks in the wheel and bet late with sectors betting , they will mess their game imediately be advicing the dealer to say NMB very early.....
That s why I am telling you , the theory from the action are 2 different things.
MR J this post is dedicated to you ;D
And yes Drazen I am a guru in roulette. Thanks
You are right, you are guru of roulette hehe
Except starring too much in the wheel is past dear guru, so as quite late bets...
Sector betting? You don't need to bet sectors to be so obvious? Ever heard of camouflage?
I just yesterday applied succesfuly VB dear guru for you information
But please i don't know anything, just theory and all you say if perfectly true and absolute true of the world
Viva le Guru! hehe :thumbsup:
Cheers
And I played yesterday Red and Black and won 20 chips.
Is that making me a winner ? :)
So you are playing in a modern wheel (with slight conditions) and you are betting early in the spin(that this making the prediction even less accurate) and you are also not betting a sector but you are leaving gaps on the sector for camo. LoL
You are living in a nice dream...
VB now days is :
1)Hope that the ball will hit the aiming diamond because the tilt is light
2)Hope that the ball will make the average scatter(because ball is jumping like crazy)
3)Hope that the prediction was correct because of the smooth ball track
4)Hope that the casino management won t understand what you are doing
5)Hope that the casino won t remove the wheel
6)Hope that the temperature-barometer won t change during play
7)Hope that the casino wheel cleaning stuff won t clean the ball track and put oil(because all will be gone...the ball timings will be a lot different)
8)Hope that the rotor will be at the speed range that the scatter recording was made.
9)Hope that the NMB will be at the correct time
This isn t VB ... this is HB(Hoping Ballistics)
Continue playing in that wheel Drazen(if you are saying the truth) and you will see that in some more visits you will lose or you will be spotted.
Except if you invented the time machine and you are playing the 80s.
Quote from: Master_of_pockets on Aug 04, 08:38 AM 2012
And I played yesterday Red and Black and won 20 chips.
Is that making me a winner ? :)
So you are playing in a modern wheel (with slight conditions) and you are betting early in the spin(that this making the prediction even less accurate) and you are also not betting a sector but you are leaving gaps on the sector for camo. LoL
You are living in a nice dream...
VB now days is :
1)Hope that the ball will hit the aiming diamond because the tilt is light
2)Hope that the ball will make the average scatter(because ball is jumping like crazy)
3)Hope that the prediction was correct because of the smooth ball track
4)Hope that the casino management won t understand what you are doing
5)Hope that the casino won t remove the wheel
6)Hope that the temperature-barometer won t change during play
7)Hope that the casino wheel cleaning stuff won t clean the ball track and put oil(because all will be gone...the ball timings will be a lot different)
8)Hope that the rotor will be at the speed range that the scatter recording was made.
9)Hope that the NMB will be at the correct time
This isn t VB ... this is HB(Hoping Ballistics)
Continue playing in that wheel Drazen(if you are saying the truth) and you will see that in some more visits you will lose or you will be spotted.
Except if you invented the time machine and you are playing the 80s.
MOP
Why dont you start a new thread and teach us some stuff? ;D In 80's i had different things on my mind.
Quote from: Master_of_pockets on Aug 04, 08:38 AM 2012
So you are playing in a modern wheel (with slight conditions) and you are betting early in the spin(that this making the prediction even less accurate-wrong) and you are also not betting a sector but you are leaving gaps on the sector for camo. LoL
Oh why oh why you had to ruin such beautfull dream of mine??? I was the best dreamer of all here... You evil man!
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
"""Why don't you start a new thread and teach us some stuff? ;D In 80's i had different things on my mind.\"""
What do u need to know Rob?
Do u like to be tought of an art that now can t win because there are no more oportunities?
If yes then open a thread with ur questions and i will help u.
Quote from: Master_of_pockets on Aug 04, 10:19 AM 2012
Do u like to be tought of an art that now can t win because there are no more oportunities?
So by you nowaday is no way to take money out of this game, unless it is pure gambling?
Did i concluded that right?
Or?
Play ur imaginary VB Drazen that u are betting early in the spin and that u don t bet sectors and leave me alone. LoL.
Quote from: MrJ on Aug 03, 08:05 PM 2012
I've been playing on Roulette Evolution a bit more as of late and really got to thinking. Is it 'better' to play on Roulette Evolution? Yes, its one spin per minute (I love that) but that's not what I mean. When that ball gets launched, its suppose to be completely random and I DO believe it to be so.
......but when an actual dealer spins the ball, he/she does have the OPTION at wheel speed, WHERE to release the ball and at what speed to release it. Would that still be the definition of random?
Roulette Evolution does NOT have a brain or feelings or is perhaps pissed at you for not tipping etc.
So are both EXACT copies of random......the ball can land anywhere? I find it funny that when playing the SAME method(s), I get better results (in terms of percent) on Roulette Evolution. Only a coincidence?
Ken
ken...UK here, and I guess Roulette evolution is a US thing. What is it? Airball?
Quote from: Master_of_pockets on Aug 03, 09:57 PM 2012
sure Mr J.
Apers can t find the opportunities that they were finding in the 90s and back.
But let me tell you that on those glory years an Aper can be rich from this kind of play...
wile the methods players couldn t be rich back those days and they still can t. :)
I know perfect level VB and I have very sharp eyes...
In Foresters video VB competition that Kelly,Snowman and Lawrence scot took part I had the most accurate predictions from all of them.
I have 2 casinos near me that both have 40 wheels and I am NOT playing VB any more...this can tell you a lot!
Like when martingale was invented and casinos put the bet limit , casinos did the same for the Apers....they took measurements to prevent then for winning-playing.
This measurements are showing CLEARLY that Advantage-play is EFFECTIVE.
But if You can t use them then they are worthless.
Now the tilt is so small-light that even the changing of the temperature or the barometer can take away the tilt....so no more oportunities....
MOP...you missed out the CSM (continuous shuffling machine) that murdered blackjack card counting.
Gays and girls, listen to Sam! he knows the long time struggle and still wins, he study the game. Must say I like it, gives something to the being as living as long that permitted!!!
Quote from: turnerfeck on Aug 10, 10:17 AM 2012
ken...UK here, and I guess Roulette evolution is a US thing. What is it? Airball?
link:://:.igt.com/us-en/games/game-page.aspx?type_id=5075 (link:://:.igt.com/us-en/games/game-page.aspx?type_id=5075)
Ken
Quote from: MrJ on Aug 10, 01:07 PM 2012
link:://:.igt.com/us-en/games/game-page.aspx?type_id=5075 (link:://:.igt.com/us-en/games/game-page.aspx?type_id=5075)
Ken
So whats generating the numbers? We have these in my local casino. It has an airball in the triangle of consols and you can play the real tables in the room T1, T2, or TBR airball.
If the outcome is not random (which I think it is) few will lose and some clever take the benefit of it.
Like bias wheel. I think some who wins a lot rapid, and have study a wheel may think he found a bias, but do not forget luck.
It must be far more difficult to aim and hit a sector or number on a wheel than throw a dice and by skill get a result.
I do not belive in DS.