Hello! Airball machine

[AlleyCat316]

Hello!

I have been reading your forum a long time, and decided today to take the jump and make a post, begin asking some questions. So, Roulette is my favorite casino game, has been for years. But, in the states, in Florida, we just recently got real roulette, well, Airball Interlock Organic machines anyway. I went and tested Flat's sector system on one last night. It seems my observations that airball tend to follow a pattern, and if you follow the machines pattern, you can follow yourself into some gas money and a meal at the end of the night.

Anyway, I've done more observing numbers, than playing numbers on one - so I was curious if anyone had any insights, or thoughts?

Thanks,

AC

[GLC]

Welcome AC.

It has been my observation that airball machines do tend to streak.  Not based on the table, but based on the wheel.

I haven't played a system enough to be able to say that there is a definite tendency to repeat and you can exploit it, but I have an acquaintance who swears that the airball machine we have here at Casino Del Sol tends to hit in the general area of the last hit all too often to be coincidence.

I have done a little tracking and all I can say is there was a slight edge on the side of repeats, but not enough to be exploitable without camping out at the casino for some marathon sessions.
Our friend F_LAT_INO definitely felt that the airball machine he played on repeated way more than expected.

My theory is that the numbers hit according to expected ratios, but they are hit in clusters as the ball tends to land close to the last number unless it hits a fret in a weird way and bounces off. 

GLC

[ausguy]

Alleycat - Interlock ? I know this game as Interblock. For info. go to search on this forum up top near the HOME logo & type in Interblock organic G4.

Also info.search on VLS forum & old (now non posting) forum = forum.net blah.

If you spend some time examining the operation of the Interblock wheel ask yourself these questions.
Why does it have an overhead or LED ball speed sensor(s) ? Why so many diamonds around the circle ? Why are the diamonds so big, and the gap only covers 2 pockets, therefore enabling the hitting of the target number or the one next door ?  Does the ball mainly drop in the same location ? Why is the crossfall from the ball track to the number pockets so steep ? Why are the number pockets so deep ? Why is there minimal ball bounce/scatter? Why is the wheel & ball so much larger than a dealer spun wheel ? Does the ball have metal within to enable fine speed control by electro magnets or are there air jet holes in the ball track to also adjust the ball speed ? Does the wheel have electronic fine speed control ? Can any player visually tell the difference between a wheel or ball speed of 26.8rpm & 25.2rpm or similar ?

Why is the game classified as an Electronic Gaming Machine = EGM (in the same class as slot/poker machines & RNG games) and not a random spun roulette wheel ? Check your gaming regulators site for detail on EGM classification.
Why doesn't the casino have a notice somewhere on the game advising players the game is an EGM & therefore the results are not true random but manipulated ?

For me a better casino option is Rapid Roulette (RR) or similar (not RNG like Vegas Star). This has a live dealer spun wheel linked to interactive touch screens. At least the spins are true random and so you get a reasonable chance of winning, subject to your bet selection & money management. If RR is not available then the good old chip table should be considered.

Sure some players win (the majority lose) on airball, as on slots etc. My experience & other players I've met too is that you win less often on EGM roulette. I've won more often on live dealer spun wheels. That's what I always play nowadays.  I twigged to the RNG & EGM rorts in 2010.

[AlleyCat316]

@GLC - Thank you! it's great to speak with you, I think I've read hundreds of posts by you over time!

@ausguy - These are great questions, I get the points of what you're saying. It is Interblock. I forgot the B. I tried searching the forum on here for a combination of the terms you specified, but I haven't tried any other forums. I will honestly try to answer many of these questions. While some are retorical such as player observing ball speed, others I am interested in seeing the results of some of these questions.

Also, @ GLC - I often play a 3/2 system. Three on 1-18, and 2 on the third dozen. What type of progression system due you think would afford me the chance to recover/last beyond a five spin consecutive loss, without an astronomical bankrooll. Further, I'm not afraid of having a bankroll of 1000+ if I can get past those limits. Once again, I've been playing a while, so I've been through the grind. I'm not looking for anything too aggressive, but I'm not afraid of a large bankroll either.

Thanks guys for the warm welcome, and I look forward to getting to know many of you much better.

Very Respectfully - AC

[Turner]

Someone pleasant and respectful is very welcome here for me.

My 2p
3 definite types of roulette number generators
Real wheel, Airball and RNG
I've said this many times, but for me, Airball is definatly akin to RNG.
the reason I say that is because there are too many unknowns.
There are nothing but unknowns with RNG so I won't discuss it.
Airball:
the rotor is motorised. Does it change speed each time slightly? don't know
Is the air jet different each time? don't know
is the air used to influence the ball as it wizzes round (getting into paranoia) don't know
Are the pockets magnetised and the ball is metalic? don't know actually, but I doubt it.
Is it just the same as real wheel? NO
Why?
Because its shrouded in mystery. The glass dome ensures the ball can't leave the wheel so the rotor speed can be faster.
The ball can ping about and produce a number.
Real Wheel:
is free running rotor with a human operating it. It doesn't ping about. Theres no mystery.

old pro's like GLC notice the difference. The output seems different. I don't trust Airball because its fabricated.
don't forget, airball starts exactly in the same position, exactly from the last number exactly the same every time. it must be different.

Go on weisbaden and download any table that has TB in front of it (not Tisch)
They are Airballs. Theres your airball numbers to test with. don't PLAY FOR REAL MONEY ON AIRBALL until you have your own opinion of them.

link:://:.spielbank-wiesbaden.de/index.php?id=82&view=archiv

Turner

[AlleyCat316]

Over the months I've been reading the forum, I've realized that really while each method (Dealer, RNG, and Airball) all look like Roulette, they are actually all different games - with real roulette only being a dealer of course.

Casino's are not legal in Florida, with only Indian reservations having them. The closest to me, is the Seminole Hard Rock. There they have the Interblock G4 Organic, as mentioned earlier. They also have a craps table by the same company.

So, unfortunately for me, airball is all i have. When I first played on the machine, it was very tricky to attempt to figure out how it works, but I've kinda got the hand of the touchscreen. they call no more bets VERY early though, which makes me a little concerned (roughly one spin in). Thanks, Turner for the insight. i follow you with the unknowns also. i had checked out the Interblock site, and was suprised how LITTLE information there was about it. I've leanred since that it is to keep people like us from catching on.

[maestro]

@turner i totaly agree for air ball...when you play and put 75 pounds on 14 was my case you can sence it..was paddy power ball hit 3 times pocket on 14 and got out last time only for a second ball droped in poket and with some kind of magic was lifted in the air and droped neighbour..this is my experience...

[AlleyCat316]

This may be interesting to some of you:

link:://:.google.com/patents/EP1937379A2?cl=en


That is the Google patent for the technology Interblock used for the Roulette and Craps table. It confirms some things you know, and maybe some things you don't. Just food for thought.

[teo]

Someone pleasant and respectful is very welcome here for me.

My 2p
3 definite types of roulette number generators
Real wheel, Airball and RNG
I've said this many times, but for me, Airball is definatly akin to RNG.
the reason I say that is because there are too many unknowns.
There are nothing but unknowns with RNG so I won't discuss it.
Airball:
the rotor is motorised. Does it change speed each time slightly? don't know-----YES--ALFA
Is the air jet different each time? don't know------YES
is the air used to influence the ball as it wizzes round (getting into paranoia) don't know---NO
Are the pockets magnetised and the ball is metalic? don't know actually, but I doubt it.-100% YES.......KNOW ALL THIS CAUSE SEEN IT MONITORED IN MY COFFY LOUNGE YEARS BACK.AM TALKING HERE ABOUT ALFASTREET OLDER VERSION.HARD COMPACT DISC WITH NUMBERS PRDETERMINATED VIA MAGN.BALL......couple years back a guy broke a plexy glass with the axe,took the bal out and show us all it is a tinny metal thing.Had this in my broken HD as a headline news next day in the local papers.Amen.
Is it just the same as real wheel? NO
Why?
Because its shrouded in mystery. The glass dome ensures the ball can't leave the wheel so the rotor speed can be faster.
The ball can ping about and produce a number.
Real Wheel:
is free running rotor with a human operating it. It doesn't ping about. Theres no mystery.

old pro's like GLC notice the difference. The output seems different. I don't trust Airball because its fabricated.
don't forget, airball starts exactly in the same position, exactly from the last number exactly the same every time. it must be different.

Go on weisbaden and download any table that has TB in front of it (not Tisch)
They are Airballs. Theres your airball numbers to test with. don't PLAY FOR REAL MONEY ON AIRBALL until you have your own opinion of them.

link:://:.spielbank-wiesbaden.de/index.php?id=82&view=archiv

Turner

[GLC]

Here's the experience with our airball machine.  Sorry I don't remember the manufacturer off the top of my head.  I check it out the next time I go.

1)  The ball always shoots from the same location.
2)  The ball always shoots at exactly 60 second intervals.
3)  The ball takes approximately 20 seconds to slow down enough to hit a fret.  This can vary just a tiny bit.
4)  The wheel takes 3 seconds to make a complete revolution.
4)  The ball is not metal, probably some kind of hard plastic so no magnets.
5)  The big variable is that the ball is light and when it hits the first fret it can bounce almost any direction.  But, most of time it just takes a small hop and settles into a slot close to the same area as the last number.  Usually not more than 10 slots behind the 1st hit.

My friend Gene plays MrJ's street system where you bet for a street to complete within 12 spins if 2 of the numbers are within the last 12 spins.  Only he plays it based on the wheel.  He keeps track and any time 2 numbers that are not more than 2 numbers away from each other are in the last 12 spins, he bets for the 3rd number for up to 12 bets.  Flat bet only.

This gives him a ton of betting opportunities because any 3 consecutive numbers on the wheel are valid.  It gives his 38 sets of 3 number opportunities.

He's retired with little else to do, so he spends hours playing.  Swears he's doing great.

I don't have the time nor the patience at this stage in life to play that way.  Maybe some day.


GLC

[Turner]

Casino's are not legal in Florida, with only Indian reservations having them. The closest to me, is the Seminole Hard Rock. There they have the Interblock G4 Organic, as mentioned earlier. They also have a craps table by the same company.

If the craps is dealer..and you dont think the dice are loaded..(fairly easy to asertain in 2 hours) Id play the craps anyday over airball.

Ive studied craps a lot. its a game for Idio.ts, with secret passages for experts. Some bets are the lowest HE in Casinos.

Ask away.....perhaps one for PM

[iggiv]

for me airball and dealer are the same, they both use almost the same mechanical ways to get output of numbers,
but RNG is totally different

[mattymattz]

Id agree with turner on the craps comment. With a good table and a knowledge of dice throwing, big profits can be made... I miss the tables in singapore... The ones here in my local city have no give. In singapore the felt was real soft and me and a few other shooters could easily get on 30 min or more runs.

MM

[GLC]

Here's the experience with our airball machine.  Sorry I don't remember the manufacturer off the top of my head.  I check it out the next time I go.

1)  The ball always shoots from the same location.
2)  The ball always shoots at exactly 60 second intervals.
3)  The ball takes approximately 20 seconds to slow down enough to hit a fret.  This can vary just a tiny bit.
4)  The wheel takes 3 seconds to make a complete revolution.  (this is an average.  It does vary somewhat.  Starts at a higher speed and ends at a slower speed.  These are Gene's calculations.  I haven't checked them out because I don't play systems that depend on this phenomenon.)
4)  The ball is not metal, probably some kind of hard plastic so no magnets.
5)  The big variable is that the ball is light and when it hits the first fret it can bounce almost any direction.  But, most of time it just takes a small hop and settles into a slot close to the same area as the last number.  Usually not more than 10 slots behind the 1st hit.

My friend Gene plays MrJ's street system where you bet for a street to complete within 12 spins if 2 of the numbers are within the last 12 spins.  Only he plays it based on the wheel.  He keeps track and any time 2 numbers that are not more than 2 numbers away from each other are in the last 12 spins, he bets for the 3rd number for up to 12 bets.  Flat bet only.

This gives him a ton of betting opportunities because any 3 consecutive numbers on the wheel are valid.  It gives his 38 sets of 3 number opportunities.

He's retired with little else to do, so he spends hours playing.  Swears he's doing great.

I don't have the time nor the patience at this stage in life to play that way.  Maybe some day.


GLC

[Turner]

Id agree with turner on the craps comment. With a good table and a knowledge of dice throwing, big profits can be made... I miss the tables in singapore... The ones here in my local city have no give. In singapore the felt was real soft and me and a few other shooters could easily get on 30 min or more runs.

MM

Well...Dice setting apart..betting dont pass and laying odds after the point is established has next to no house edge.