migrating forums

[mechorp]

Steve why dont you migrate the vls and this forum? Is there any way to do it, and can one members posts be transferred from one forum to another?

And what is going on with betselection and betforum? First it was moving and one being read only or shut down, now not and there is tension between the admins and now they are seperate forums again.

[Steve]

Whats your user on vls? Merging forums will cause database conflicts

I wasnt aware they were arguing. Looks messy and for what?.. To remove an ad that members dont even see? Its naive to thinks its about removing invisible ads. Someone wanted more money. I suspect a similar situation.

[biagle]

Whats your user on vls? Merging forums will cause database conflicts

I wasnt aware they were arguing. Looks messy and for what?.. To remove an ad that members dont even see? Its naive to thinks its about removing invisible ads. Someone wanted more money. I suspect a similar situation.

i think so too. dont see a point what they wanted to do..

[winkel]

The funniest thing is:

we now have 4 (or even more) forums started by vls. and in all forums same users are writing and answering the same Threads.
Ads or no is a senseless discussion. Either the owner has to earn some money for hosting licences, so he has the right to collect money from whom he wants, or he so wealthy, that he can afford to pay all the fees just for fun. And if the owner is a systemseller himself: I don´t have to buy his stuff, do I? Otherwise I´m free to change or leave

What was promised, to avoid scammers and systemsellers and naysayers, didn´t work.

Obviously soon we will have another forum by vls.

As I sayed years ago: I don´t like to be sold again and again. So I saved me from not knowing in which forum I posted what and perhaps under which nickname and what was my password there and what was the name of the forum?

br
winkel

[teo]

Nothing to slam Vic about...You got to know/which he don't deny/he makes living from the forums,feed his
family and doesn't forces anybody into anything,nor did I ever heard from any numbers that was scam by him.
Therefore,it is a job as any other...my 2 chips.

[iggiv]

Vic is a good man.

[Steve]

I hate the drama but I'll explain what happened:

1. Victor created vlsroulette and asked for donations to run it. Hosting is not expensive. Victor took multiple donations, including $1000+ from Addonai. Victor received enough for 10 years of hosting.

2. Victor sold vlsroulette to me. He gave a big sob story about how gambling was affecting his marriage, its time for him to move on, and that he will definitely not create a competing forum. So I purchased. Victor refused to refund the un-used donations.

3. Against his word, Victor created rouletteforum.cc. He eventually pleaded with me to buy it too because he had financial troubles, promising not to break his promise again. I initially refused because he already showed his dishonesty. But eventually like a trusting idiot I bought it too, on the very strict and clear agreement that he was not to repeat history.

4. Against his word yet AGAIN, Victor created numerous other forums, including roulettestudy and betselection. When I remind him of his word and history, he eventually agrees to run my ad (that members don’t even see). This is from fear of legal action, not integrity. Then he complained to members and acted like I’m some kind of tyrant boogeyman controlling his life and destroying the spirit of the forum with my ads. Some members believe victors rants, despite the ads being invisible to them.

5. Victor continues to shamelessly manipulate others into believing I’m the ad boogeyman ruining everyone’s forum experience. He claims to want a free and open community for everyone, without any ads and free to prosper, yay. So he pushes people towards a new forum that doesn’t have my ad. While complaining about my ads, he arranges to have his own ads on the new forum. This arrangement allows him to run his own ads, without mine. Steph and Victor agree to a 25% commission on Victor’s sales.

6. Things turn sour between the new business partners when Steph realizes Victor’s intentions are greed-driven.

7. Victor and Steph go separate ways, and Victor now wants to charge membership fees for betselection (And this is better than running invisible ads??)

A few points....

* I don’t have a problem with Steph having a competing forum. But the whole move from betforum was to escape ads that members dont even see, right? And Steph said he wasn’t making 1 cent from the forum... Well what about the ads he gets commission on?

* Victor made clear that betforum was a business venture for both him and Steph. He said:

“He sincerely only wants to help his family with his internet activities”.

“Stef and I got to a 25% profit-share agreement on my projects hosted on his websites (be it software or otherwise).”

“From now on when people buy from me they directly help support betforum’s maintenance, Steph’s family and mine.”

Make from this whatever you want. It should be clear it is all about money.


There is nothing wrong with running ads. But there is something wrong with:

* Victor breaking very clear agreements

* Victor manipulating people claiming I’m the ad boogeyman ruining everyone’s forum experience, then secretly planning to run his own ads on another forum. (would people have joined betforum if victor said he intends to run his own ads? Or how about if Stef announced he would profit from it?)

* Steph claiming he isnt profiting from the forum, when clearly there was an agreement for him to profit with the 25% commission. Plus Victor explains Steph’s motives for profit to help his family.


The whole thing is a big smelly mess. I acted with integrity, but got shamelessly vilified by Victor who wanted to create forums to sell, then manipulate the same members to move to his new forum and repeat the process.

If you truly believed Victor wanted an open and free forum for everyone out of the goodness of his heart, and it wasn’t all about money, then perhaps you are naïve. I’m not saying he has a bad heart, but he is definitely driven by money and clearly puts profit before integrity. In short, he cant be trusted.

The story is even more complex, but who has time for it. The end result is we have the same forum split between 4 different websites. Why? Victor.

At least I’m honest and clear about my intentions. If steph truly doesnt profit from betforum (like he said), and Victor is lying about the 25% commission, then good on Steph, good luck to him.

Anyway I’d rather just forget about it. Let's just move on from it. Everyone just shouldn’t be so naïve about people’s intentions. But there are much more important matters to focus on. The world literally appears to be moving towards nuclear war and one huge collapse. Things are rapidly declining and this wont be pretty. Really everyone needs to stock up on vegetable seeds. If you have very little space to grow food, then use grow Spirulina (it's an algae superfood, very fast growing, cheap to grow, and produces more food for your space than anything). Its no hamburger but many of us will soon be in a survival situation.

Cant happen? It is already happening in parts of the world. The great depression caused mass inflation and people died because they couldnt afford food. Whats coming will be much worse. In Venezuela, now the governments have banned stockpiling food (I think thats where victor is from too). The state of his country is bad. So I understand Victor's motives, but it doesnt excuse it. I'm helping to build :.yourway.org.au to be a resource to sincerely help people. There are many similar sites though. Believe me everyone needs to prepare before it gets much worse.

How much fertile land has Venezuela got to grow food??? And people are desperate??? The problem is not the economy. It is that people are sleeping.

[teo]

Most fair dinkum frank post have ever read on any forum in last 10 years.....and whats more important,right on the
nail about Victor and rest of the story.....Bravo

[Stepkevh]

@ Steve

You hit the nail on the head when you talk about the greedy part.

But not when it comes down about earning something on the forum.

Before Victor talked about creating another forum i already decided that it went time to create a forum of my own just for my ExcelBot.
The server that i rent should get paid by earnings of that.
Or from earnings of creating sheets.
Or in last case i would pay for it myself because tell me, what is 25â,¬ for a working man ?
I have my daily job so 25â,¬ for that server is peanuts.
That is the whole reason why i dont want money from people on BetForum.

But then Victor came up with the idea to create another forum and transfer all traffic to BetForum.
I was indeed so stupid to believe his nice words ...
But i always kept in mind why people warned me about him.

So we went on and he wanted to give 25% share of his profits of any software he sold via BetForum.
I told him litterly that i really didn't need that because like i said above, server would get paid via my own resources.
But he incisted on it, allthough i took it with a grain of salt again because of what people said about him.

All the rest of the story can be see on my place.
No need to explain it again here.

Stef

[GARNabby]

Vic is a good man.

I think so too, but also that he should've stuck to internet software development.

[iggiv]

i am not saying he is right or wrong, I am not in the position to judge. I just like the guy despite any issues he may have.
And I know his life is not easy over there.

[Steve]

The whole thing has become a childish circus, with a mix of people that have no clue, some who have learned, and some who dont care. There is truth, and there is bs. Many people on the forums act 12 and need to grow up.

Steph, you said you werent going to profit. This appears clearly false, ie excelbot, and commissions. If its a business for you. That is fine, you dont need to hide this and I suggest just be straight with everyone. Sincerely, good luck with it. But expect being in the spotlight will make you an unjustified target. Understand though the internet is full of people that think they know, but have no idea. Also envious people, not grown men, who unknowingly target you because of their own shortcomings. and of course people who call you names and attack you because you banned them after breaking rules.

Victor, I learned not to trust you. But I dont hold grudges against you.

ps if some of you still think im a scammer, yet know nothing about me, are developing systems that have no chance of winning; are you in position to judge? I already submitted to public tests, including with ronjo. All sellers do this?  Perhaps you werent around back then, or forgot. Everyone has developed image recognition roulette computers. Everyone manages teams that have won many milions. Every scammer also has public in person demos too, right? My methods force casinos to change rules, do yours? Some people will never "get it".

I try to teach people for free, although my advice is usually dismissed, by consistent losers who do harm to people's understanding of roulette. most people work on systems that cant work, without a clue why.

If anyone is here to learn about roulette, then try something that hasnt been tried before, or something that even casinos themelves know works. Dont bother with is proven to fail. Logical? The problem is most people dont understand why their system is the same nonsense repackaged. Or, waste time going in circles and wonder why you cant win.

Most of all, perhaps put things into perspective. Look out the window and stop wasting time.

[MrJ]

What a mess over there, too much drama for my taste. Besides, I have ZERO interest in bots, on-line play etc.

Not insulting it per say, just sayin, its not for me.

Ken

[GARNabby]

Some people will never "get it".

If I had a decent no-risk way to play roulette, then I wouldn't be concerning myself with who "gets it" on the internet.  Nor would I be selling the deal (, then to also the casinos, who might change their "game" by it to prevent the thing from working well or at all.)

[Steve]

Garnabby, my reference about some people not "getting it" was about me, and that I'm actually an honest person. You were referring to the sale of my technology, which is a different matter.

But on this note, I have developed numerous methods and technology to beat roulette. I sell some of it, and keep the best parts for myself. Its a not complicated matter.

What I sell ranges up to $80,000. If I sold it for $49.95, then I'd understand if people didnt see the logic of selling it.

As for what casinos may do as a result of me selling technology, casinos know all about it. Nothing I "sell" will change that. They know the basic ways roulette is being beaten, and how to protect themselves, although not always effective. Their countermeasures are usually only applied IF they detect professional players, because if they applied countermeasures all the time, they'd slow the game and this would mean overall lost revenue for them. In other words, professional players are just part of their business. They deal with them whenever they are detected, but many still slip through the cracks.

I come in contact with skeptical people every day. And my response is basically: read my site, see all the proof including recorded public demos, independent test results, come see a personal demo for yourself, test the free trial for as long as you want... and if its all not enough to convince you, not a problem. I'm running a business, but I'm really not desperate for money or to convince anyone of anything.