The psychology of a systems player?

[precogmiles]

Please do not be offended, I am just curious as to what the thought process is of a systems player.

Since it is statistically impossible to beat roulette with any bet selection over a large amount of spins, why have some systems players been attempting to do so for years?

If people are adamant that there is a system out there that can beat roulette, why has it not become available to more players?

Is this whole ‘search for the holy grail using systems’ idea just a bit of fun, like a hobby?

Why do so many systems have such bad winrates?

Why do supposedly successful systems have such low profit and take hour upon hours to play?

All the supposedly successful systems I have seen can not deal with nightmare senorios. So how can they be successful systems?

How can random beat random. And math beat random? That just sounds insane.

Knowing roulette has been around for a very long time. Why do you think nobody has found a way to consistently beat it?

I ask these questions because I have going over the history of this forum and other roulette forums and it seems systems players have been posting the same topic threads for decades with absolutely no genuine success. So it makes me think either I have missed something or as Einstein said it, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Or is it that we are getting closer to the holy grail every year by posting the same methods but with slight variations.

Again please don’t get offended I am just confused about the principle of using a system to beat roulette and what would make some believe this is possible.

[ignatus]

Main problem, with an "ordinary bet" you cannot get far?, or get a high "winrate" only way to achive that imo is some kind of "clustered bet",..as i've explained?, ..nothing wrong with the betselections only use them with a clustered bet+ a milder progression, +1u after a ended cycle etc..(Steve/atlantis-like) i believe is the way to go, furthermore, i think now, best betselection IS a bet of 8-9 numbers...(for me)

[Mako]

Please do not be offended, I am just curious as to what the thought process is of a systems player.

Since it is statistically impossible to beat roulette with any bet selection over a large amount of spins, why have some systems players been attempting to do so for years?

For me it's just about finding a method of play that in short bursts (under 300 spins) can 'dance between the raindrops' and break-even for comps, or win slightly more than it loses.

I feel currently after testing for thousands of spielbank duisburg downloaded spins that I have 2-3 different methods of play that achieve that goal more often than not. One of them is a flatbet also, so the risk is minimal.

If people are adamant that there is a system out there that can beat roulette, why has it not become available to more players?

Most players are not competent or disciplined when it comes to large scale testing.  Most don't even own RX, and some refuse to do any simulation outside of actual B&M play (which is too slow, too small sample to mean anything).

Easy to lose once, twice, give up, and without the right tools/process, it's nearly blind guessing for the majority.

Is this whole ‘search for the holy grail using systems’ idea just a bit of fun, like a hobby?

Correct, any sort of HG would just be a bonus.  Some refuse to believe it, but I've verified multiple forum members (2) who play daily, with greens and blacks, and possess what they feel is a grail.  They both haven't lost in over a year, and their winnings are mid-six-figures the past year. And no, TurboGenius (nor PassionRoulette) are in that group.

Even if that sounds unbelievable, the pursuit of an HG is again just a fun hobby.  The real goal is consistent play that breaks-even or provides slightly more winning sessions than losing.

Why do so many systems have such bad winrates?

90% of "new" systems posted to the board are retreads, or slightly modified retreads, that failed years ago due to a host of reasons (fallacy, lack of testing, poor MM, poor BS, martingale progressions, etc, etc, etc,).

Why do supposedly successful systems have such low profit and take hour upon hours to play?

The longer-play systems are just crutches usually, to make the player believe that the system is a legitimate winner. 

Slow = longer to bust in terms of time, which leads people to think it may be closer to a winner than a fast-win/fast-lose system.

All the supposedly successful systems I have seen can not deal with nightmare senorios. So how can they be successful systems?

In that case the player would need to believe (via testing thousands of spins) that the "nightmare" scenario occurs infrequently enough that profit can be accrued over time despite it. 

Usually nightmare scenarios are ascribed to martingales, which obviously are legitimate.  Other nightmare scenarios might occur say once in every ten sessions, while the other nine sessions returned a profit.  The question is, does your system provide enough profit in the nine wins to offset the single nightmare loss?  And that's what system players try to achieve.

How can random beat random. And math beat random? That just sounds insane.

Turbo's quote, which makes him feel safe that he's beaten the game.  It's a self-affirmation, a sub-conscious attempt to pump himself up and create a "fact" out of the way his system plays.  It's attempting to ascribe legitimacy to something that may or may not be legitimate, and I can understand why he does it because if you've played Turbo's system you realize REAL fast that you need a deep BR, and have to be willing to lose that entire BR, to get a chance at the 200-400% profit.

Knowing roulette has been around for a very long time. Why do you think nobody has found a way to consistently beat it?

Without computers to assist, it would have been very difficult before say 1975 for even a roulette fan to try and simulate/test any strategy they developed.  Past that point, and especially with the advent of the internet (which allows combining of individual theories, tests, etc, into a large group of sharp people like our forum), it should have accelerated....and I believe it has.

I ask these questions because I have going over the history of this forum and other roulette forums and it seems systems players have been posting the same topic threads for decades with absolutely no genuine success. So it makes me think either I have missed something or as Einstein said it, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I've thought the same thing, you look at VLS posts, check their dates, people here have been chasing the magic dragon for over a decade and the same names haven't had longterm success.

It's a case of falling into one of many traps.  From shiny object syndrome (someone is winning but abandons the system to chase ANOTHER new system), to poor testing (already described) to poor MM (they BK and can't play the game any longer, give up), to any of the other possible suspects.

All good questions Miles, and I support the work you're doing on precog, it's no less "real" than anything else we're chasing here.  The CIA's remote viewing programs, which ALL parties involved agree were anywhere from "ok" to "worked great" are proof enough to me that there are a lot of things we still don't understand about perception.

Hey, that's somewhat similar now that I think about it...why haven't we "beaten" precog yet?  Just as system players haven't "beaten" roulette, the answer to both may be much closer than its ever been....

[The General]

Knowing roulette has been around for a very long time. Why do you think nobody has found a way to consistently beat it?

Without computers to assist, it would have been very difficult before say 1975 for even a roulette fan to try and simulate/test any strategy they developed.  Past that point, and especially with the advent of the internet (which allows combining of individual theories, tests, etc, into a large group of sharp people like our forum), it should have accelerated....and I believe it has.

People have been beating the hell out of the wheel long before the computers arrived on the scene.  There are countless cases documented of VB players and wheel bias players destroying tables.

Read on the history and you'll find it.

[Mako]

People have been beating the hell out of the wheel long before the computers arrived on the scene.  There are countless cases documented of VB players and wheel bias players destroying tables.

Read on the history and you'll find it.

For sure. I wasn't addressing any VB or bias methods in my post, just general systems as Miles meant.

AP has beaten the wheel repeatedly, that's not even in question in my mind. 

Now whether you guys are able to beat it currently like the "good old days" 25+ years ago...about that I have doubts.  I suspect it's taking you more and more work, more and more minions, for lower hauls versus the glory years, but I still don't question that it's effective.

[luckyfella]

Please do not be offended, I am just curious as to what the thought process is of a systems player.

No offence taken

Since it is statistically impossible to beat roulette with any bet selection over a large amount of spins, why have some systems players been attempting to do so for years?

If you accept statistically impossible at any stage you are already defeated.
Nothing wrong with that, pretty normal.

If people are adamant that there is a system out there that can beat roulette, why has it not become available to more players?

Anybody with the right mind will never share this statistically impossible solution, right ?

Is this whole ‘search for the holy grail using systems’ idea just a bit of fun, like a hobby?

An intellectual challenge.

Why do so many systems have such bad winrates?

Zero basis in the design.

Why do supposedly successful systems have such low profit and take hour upon hours to play?

To find a net positive edge in a statistically impossible environment is a huge achievement.
Top that with a high rate of return is insane.
Too high the edge, I don't believe it myself, example steve's claims of easy to beat the wheel, 150% edge is rubbish to me.
Real net positive edge has small numbers that overcome the house edge - 2.7% into net positive territory.
Sensational numbers is what it s sensational.

All the supposedly successful systems I have seen can not deal with nightmare senorios. So how can they be successful systems?

By Nightmare scenarios, you mean outlier variance.
Easy to deal with, really.
Define a low cost stop.

How can random beat random. And math beat random? That just sounds insane.

Ofc it sounds insane.
What is more insane is if it's not random there's no way to beat this game.

Knowing roulette has been around for a very long time. Why do you think nobody has found a way to consistently beat it?

Assumption of nobody.

I ask these questions because I have going over the history of this forum and other roulette forums and it seems systems players have been posting the same topic threads for decades with absolutely no genuine success. So it makes me think either I have missed something or as Einstein said it, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

It's perfectly normal to think the way you do, it's the logical process.

Or is it that we are getting closer to the holy grail every year by posting the same methods but with slight variations.

Design MUST have math as the basis.

Again please don’t get offended I am just confused about the principle of using a system to beat roulette and what would make some believe this is possible.

Agan no offence taken.
Question are legitimate.

Count the cost.

My advice is not to waste your time, money and life to attempt this silly thing.

Get a job. That's real.

More important, don't part money to any seller of books, video or systems, or AP or roulette computers or whatever.

You have been warned.

[Proofreaders2000]

I like to look at what the dealer does more than the wheel. 
(re: Dealer signature)

Dealers subconsciously have a predisposed area of
the wheel many of the balls rest.  It's a matter of finding it imo.

[precogmiles]

There are countless cases documented of VB players and wheel bias players destroying tables.

Read on the history and you'll find it.

Great reply, very honest. thanks

[Steve]

More important, don't part money to any seller of books, video or systems, or AP or roulette computers or whatever.

You have been warned.

Why not?

Are you saying nothing can ever be learned from books?

Casino consultants buy books and videos about AP. Many buy computers or make their own. Why do you think that is?

My computers get clear edge between 20-150% on almost every wheel.

Not worth it?

Luckyfella, your post above is full of holes and contradictions which I dont have time to address. It's better for you to understand something before criticizing it.

[Steve]

Some people would say "nobody would ever sell a system that worked".
Others would say "if there was a system that worked, it would be very expensive"
Others would say "$80,000 is too expensive" (cost of my hybrid roulette computer)

Few understand why I sell technology. They think it must mean they dont work. It's not complicated. I don't mind who purchases my less effective methods or technology. Prices range between $1000 - $4000 for those. But my best technology is $80,000 AND I sell it on conditions like they only play in specific jurisdictions to prevent widespread use. ie there may only be one hybrid team in an area at a time.

The players benefit with an effective computer. I benefit because I get paid $80,000 from licensing my technology, which is very difficult, expensive and time consuming to develop. Sure they could try developing one like it themselves. But it would take them years and a lot more than $80k. The people who buy it must see it before buying - its mandatory. And people with money aren't idiots. They do proper research and carefully verify my claims.

I also have the computer service explained at :.roulettephysics.com/computer-service/ where basically players get the hybrid free, and pay only after winning. But this is done only with high stakes players. There's not much point to me being awake at 3am for $5 units.

Perhaps you are comparing my technology to Blue Angel's ebooks on Amazon, which aren't worth the bandwidth it costs to download them.

[RouletteGhost]

selling something that worked on roulette just doesnt make sense....more touble than it is worth

said person could just go win, win and win

the book sellers really get me to laugh...system so good they write a book 

[Steve]

selling something that worked on roulette just doesnt make sense

Doesn't make sense to you, because you aren't in my position, and dont understand the issues and options.

There are thousands of casinos in the world. Do you really think it's possible for my private teams to play in all of them? No, of course not. It's difficult to coordinate too many teams. So that leaves two main options to maximize my revenue:

1. Get others to play for me, and pay part of their winnings (which is what this is: link:://:.roulettephysics.com/computer-service/ )

2. License my technology, which is what you call "selling". People pay a worthwhile fee to use my technology. The lower cost technology can be used anywhere, but there are restrictions on where the more powerful technology is used.

In a dream world, I would give everyone a free roulette computer and they'd pay me part of their profits. I tried something similar once. I sent many free computers to reasonably qualified players, and I found when people get something for free, they are lazier and dont dedicate the time. That meant many people who got a free computer didnt make use of it, and didn't even bother sending back the equipment worth around $2000. So now the only way to get my computers free is the program at link:://:.roulettephysics.com/computer-service/ which eliminates the risk of time-wasters, but gives serious teams a "pay as you win" option without needing to pay me anything up-front.

As for AP books and videos, there are many that work. People sell them because they do offer value, but they are not a magic wand to make money. They are techniques that work, but lazy people wont succeed. It takes more time and effort than most people want to dedicate. It's a bit like buying a business.... it makes money, but is it going to run itself?

the book sellers really get me to laugh...system so good they write a book

You cant expect much value from a $4.95 ebook claiming to offer the holy grail. That's not what I do.

[luckyfella]

Steve, you SELL roulette computers

I don't sell anything

If you raise SPECIFIC technical matter that make sense I will address
I won't respond to useless wall of text

I stand by what I wrote, no reference to your activities

Ofc I won't stand in your way
I couldn't care less

[Steve]

RG, you also need to understand the difference between selling something like a book, and licensing technology.

A book and the knowledge is yours to keep. You can get value from books and videos. That's what they're for. Sure some are full of shit. And some actually have valuable techniques and lessons. If you understood AP better you'd know this.

Licensing technology is what I do with my hybrid roulette computer. I have full control over it and can restrict anyone's access if they breach the terms of service.

[Steve]

Steve, you SELL roulette computers

I sell some things as I explained, but mostly I license. The difference is with licensing, the merchant retains ownership and control.

If you raise SPECIFIC technical matter that make sense I will address

That's fine but I dont have the time.