Do we actually need long term winning methods to beat roulett?

[Ralph]

There are probably no methods for long time winnings. It should not take very long to find out.
You can not know the outcome before (and I do not believe it is practical to use physics either).
Every spin can end as a win or loss.
That's the reason some like the HAR, they use a kind of bookkeeping, stop while ahead, and that days play is profit. Even if we do not believe HAR is better, we will quite often practice it, who will drive home or end an online game with a loss? We are happy to stop on plus!!
The total play are usually not in the bookkeeping.

Of the other hand we know, the good streak which give profit, will not last forever. To leave the table after shorter play has some good reason.

We often judge the methods after result, and forget the most important factor, which is luck.
It is so simple as we win if the numbers bet shows.

Some can be lucky for very long time, even if the chance is a few parts of a million, it will happen.
I saw on the statistics for a on line casino it was millions of request to the servers in just one day, and a spin would be about a few requests. (to demo page roulette 46% of the requests) Among all that game it is losers and winners, some big some small, some winning often, some just lose.
Payouts of 5000 and more are routine on those casinos.

The myth which says you can win all the time with a system, is just not true, one can be better than other, but winning needs luck.

Some methods, which is easy to find is GF, will work or not, depending of the numbers shown, so
they are at least not worse than many "scientific" methods. Some add more fun to the game, which is not negligible.

Sometimes I got the impression, many contribute here are not playing very much comparing to research and run big quantity's of numbers trough testing software. As we know it is still to find
methods lasting millions of spins, the testing may go forever.

So who is right? How we messure? Using tests or play?

[rouletteKEY]

I have played roulette for quite awhile and have tested many methods and played a few.  Yes.  I believe you need long term winning methods in order to beat roulette.  But I also believe it becomes much more involved than a winning method or a series of winning methods strung together as the original question was posed.

We control when we bet and how much we bet along with when to leave.  No one (in a fair game) controls where the ball lands.

I think the basis for a "winning method" comes down to tactics and strategy...read that as discipline and bet selection, in conjunction with, a few methods that are easily tracked and played concurrently. Playing one method at a time opens you up to a huge downside risk...if that method doesn't play into the spins...you are busted. 

If you use proper bankroll management, use methods that have slight progressions with judicious stop-loss points and have methods that generally win you then have a fairly stable and long term winning method by using 3 or 4 methods at the same time.

We have all sat at the table and watched people come and win huge with no apparent rhyme or reason to their bet selection and then give it all back...because of the lack of a strategy and winning tactics.  We've also seen people just straight out lose from spin one $100, $200, $1000...pick your number but I have literally sat at a table for hours and have been up or down based on the waves that are inherent with the game while watching literally 50 or more players come and drop every dollar they played.  That's not to say that I haven't gone bust as they have...it's part of the game...it's a risk we all take.  But how do some players stay at the table while others are wiped out in less than an hour on a consistent basis?

I certainly don't have all the answers but with years of playing I would say a winning method is based on several fundamentals
1.  Don't set a time limit on your session
2.  Look at the game as a job and study it...do your homework and apply it
          You get out of it what you put into it.  If you are reading a forum you are likely on the right path and ahead of 98% of players already.
3.  If you have a bad feeling...trust your gut and leave the table
4.  Use progressions that make sense and have stop-losses or caps so you don't get wiped out on a few spins...live to play another day
           If you have good bet selection you should be almost solid on a flat-bet basis.  The mild progression lets you turn sessions into small profits that would have met stop-losses on a flat basis
5.  Play at least three systems concurrently
          If you have three systems that are easy to track and play and generally win more than they lose...I believe you have a basis you can build on.  If you have good bet selection you can play 3 or 4 methods at the same time and generally only be placing one or two bets because most good bet selections (for me anyways) don't have you betting every single spin...many have a trigger you are waiting quite awhile on and then you play for the first or second win and then you have some more downtime for that particular method.
6.  Don't get greedy
          You don't get rich overnight...but you can go broke in a few spins.  Get rich slow and systematically...Don't try to put a square peg in a round hole....Patience 
          Break your bank into 10 or 12 sessions and look at realistic session gains...if you are winning and over your goal...play with casino money back down to your win goal if you are feeling lucky and have the discipline to walk away if you lose back to your win goal.  If you have a bankroll of say $3000 go with 250 single dollar chips per session.  250 units per session lets you ride out a couple losing waves without creating too much anxiety and if you can win 80-100 units off of 250 in a session call it good and go grab a bite to eat...come back in an hour and reboot with another 250 session.

Regarding #5
    I generally play methods that require a small amount of numbers so that I can use a limited progression and have a decent strike rate based on bet selection...sometimes dozens or streets can be played into this.   I know many players like to play alot of numbers and have success with their methods...it just seems awfully difficult to get back out of a hole when playing a ton of numbers...and depending on the venue and spin rate, tracking and placing bets sometimes becomes problematic.  Patience and greed become issues and players I observe try to get themselves out of a hole too quick if they get behind or get frustrated because they are too hurried.  Just an observation

  I do believe wholeheartedly that we need a long term winning method to beat roulette...but it is more than a single bet selection process played into oblivion.  Treat it like a business and have a complete approach and stick to it....use conservative bankroll management...if your system is solid the bank will grow and you will be able to build your unit size.  Don't get overconfident and risk too much of your total bankroll in a single session or two let a couple bad runs take everything you've built.

My two cents...for what it's worth
   

[ugly bob]

I have played roulette for quite awhile and have tested many methods and played a few.  Yes.  I believe you need long term winning methods in order to beat roulette.  But I also believe it becomes much more involved than a winning method or a series of winning methods strung together as the original question was posed.

We control when we bet and how much we bet along with when to leave.  No one (in a fair game) controls where the ball lands.

I think the basis for a "winning method" comes down to tactics and strategy...read that as discipline and bet selection, in conjunction with, a few methods that are easily tracked and played concurrently. Playing one method at a time opens you up to a huge downside risk...if that method doesn't play into the spins...you are busted. 

If you use proper bankroll management, use methods that have slight progressions with judicious stop-loss points and have methods that generally win you then have a fairly stable and long term winning method by using 3 or 4 methods at the same time.

We have all sat at the table and watched people come and win huge with no apparent rhyme or reason to their bet selection and then give it all back...because of the lack of a strategy and winning tactics.  We've also seen people just straight out lose from spin one $100, $200, $1000...pick your number but I have literally sat at a table for hours and have been up or down based on the waves that are inherent with the game while watching literally 50 or more players come and drop every dollar they played.  That's not to say that I haven't gone bust as they have...it's part of the game...it's a risk we all take.  But how do some players stay at the table while others are wiped out in less than an hour on a consistent basis?

I certainly don't have all the answers but with years of playing I would say a winning method is based on several fundamentals
1.  Don't set a time limit on your session
2.  Look at the game as a job and study it...do your homework and apply it
          You get out of it what you put into it.  If you are reading a forum you are likely on the right path and ahead of 98% of players already.
3.  If you have a bad feeling...trust your gut and leave the table
4.  Use progressions that make sense and have stop-losses or caps so you don't get wiped out on a few spins...live to play another day
           If you have good bet selection you should be almost solid on a flat-bet basis.  The mild progression lets you turn sessions into small profits that would have met stop-losses on a flat basis
5.  Play at least three systems concurrently
          If you have three systems that are easy to track and play and generally win more than they lose...I believe you have a basis you can build on.  If you have good bet selection you can play 3 or 4 methods at the same time and generally only be placing one or two bets because most good bet selections (for me anyways) don't have you betting every single spin...many have a trigger you are waiting quite awhile on and then you play for the first or second win and then you have some more downtime for that particular method.
6.  Don't get greedy
          You don't get rich overnight...but you can go broke in a few spins.  Get rich slow and systematically...Don't try to put a square peg in a round hole....Patience 
          Break your bank into 10 or 12 sessions and look at realistic session gains...if you are winning and over your goal...play with casino money back down to your win goal if you are feeling lucky and have the discipline to walk away if you lose back to your win goal.  If you have a bankroll of say $3000 go with 250 single dollar chips per session.  250 units per session lets you ride out a couple losing waves without creating too much anxiety and if you can win 80-100 units off of 250 in a session call it good and go grab a bite to eat...come back in an hour and reboot with another 250 session.

Regarding #5
    I generally play methods that require a small amount of numbers so that I can use a limited progression and have a decent strike rate based on bet selection...sometimes dozens or streets can be played into this.   I know many players like to play a lot of numbers and have success with their methods...it just seems awfully difficult to get back out of a hole when playing a ton of numbers...and depending on the venue and spin rate, tracking and placing bets sometimes becomes problematic.  Patience and greed become issues and players I observe try to get themselves out of a hole too quick if they get behind or get frustrated because they are too hurried.  Just an observation

  I do believe wholeheartedly that we need a long term winning method to beat roulette...but it is more than a single bet selection process played into oblivion.  Treat it like a business and have a complete approach and stick to it....use conservative bankroll management...if your system is solid the bank will grow and you will be able to build your unit size.  Don't get overconfident and risk too much of your total bankroll in a single session or two let a couple bad runs take everything you've built.

My two cents...for what it's worth

This is common sense post and you can't argue with it.


bob.

[speed]

I have played roulette for quite awhile and have tested many methods and played a few.  Yes.  I believe you need long term winning methods in order to beat roulette.  But I also believe it becomes much more involved than a winning method or a series of winning methods strung together as the original question was posed.

We control when we bet and how much we bet along with when to leave.  No one (in a fair game) controls where the ball lands.

I think the basis for a "winning method" comes down to tactics and strategy...read that as discipline and bet selection, in conjunction with, a few methods that are easily tracked and played concurrently. Playing one method at a time opens you up to a huge downside risk...if that method doesn't play into the spins...you are busted. 

If you use proper bankroll management, use methods that have slight progressions with judicious stop-loss points and have methods that generally win you then have a fairly stable and long term winning method by using 3 or 4 methods at the same time.

We have all sat at the table and watched people come and win huge with no apparent rhyme or reason to their bet selection and then give it all back...because of the lack of a strategy and winning tactics.  We've also seen people just straight out lose from spin one $100, $200, $1000...pick your number but I have literally sat at a table for hours and have been up or down based on the waves that are inherent with the game while watching literally 50 or more players come and drop every dollar they played.  That's not to say that I haven't gone bust as they have...it's part of the game...it's a risk we all take.  But how do some players stay at the table while others are wiped out in less than an hour on a consistent basis?

I certainly don't have all the answers but with years of playing I would say a winning method is based on several fundamentals
1.  Don't set a time limit on your session
2.  Look at the game as a job and study it...do your homework and apply it
          You get out of it what you put into it.  If you are reading a forum you are likely on the right path and ahead of 98% of players already.
3.  If you have a bad feeling...trust your gut and leave the table
4.  Use progressions that make sense and have stop-losses or caps so you don't get wiped out on a few spins...live to play another day
           If you have good bet selection you should be almost solid on a flat-bet basis.  The mild progression lets you turn sessions into small profits that would have met stop-losses on a flat basis
5.  Play at least three systems concurrently
          If you have three systems that are easy to track and play and generally win more than they lose...I believe you have a basis you can build on.  If you have good bet selection you can play 3 or 4 methods at the same time and generally only be placing one or two bets because most good bet selections (for me anyways) don't have you betting every single spin...many have a trigger you are waiting quite awhile on and then you play for the first or second win and then you have some more downtime for that particular method.
6.  Don't get greedy
          You don't get rich overnight...but you can go broke in a few spins.  Get rich slow and systematically...Don't try to put a square peg in a round hole....Patience 
          Break your bank into 10 or 12 sessions and look at realistic session gains...if you are winning and over your goal...play with casino money back down to your win goal if you are feeling lucky and have the discipline to walk away if you lose back to your win goal.  If you have a bankroll of say $3000 go with 250 single dollar chips per session.  250 units per session lets you ride out a couple losing waves without creating too much anxiety and if you can win 80-100 units off of 250 in a session call it good and go grab a bite to eat...come back in an hour and reboot with another 250 session.

Regarding #5
    I generally play methods that require a small amount of numbers so that I can use a limited progression and have a decent strike rate based on bet selection...sometimes dozens or streets can be played into this.   I know many players like to play a lot of numbers and have success with their methods...it just seems awfully difficult to get back out of a hole when playing a ton of numbers...and depending on the venue and spin rate, tracking and placing bets sometimes becomes problematic.  Patience and greed become issues and players I observe try to get themselves out of a hole too quick if they get behind or get frustrated because they are too hurried.  Just an observation

  I do believe wholeheartedly that we need a long term winning method to beat roulette...but it is more than a single bet selection process played into oblivion.  Treat it like a business and have a complete approach and stick to it....use conservative bankroll management...if your system is solid the bank will grow and you will be able to build your unit size.  Don't get overconfident and risk too much of your total bankroll in a single session or two let a couple bad runs take everything you've built.

My two cents...for what it's worth

This is all gambling fallacy.

and this one is best: If you have a bad feeling...trust your gut and leave the table
     

[rouletteKEY]

Speed,
    Sorry to have offended your analytical side...maybe I should have expanded on that thought to properly portray what I was trying to express

    Nearly every time I have lost some big money I saw it coming and stayed in the bet...conversely on big wins...I never had that impending feeling of doom or generally speaking I didn't have that high level of anxiety when pushing out a pile of chips several spins before a large bet culminated in a win.  Hey it's just a feeling that sometimes hits and generally when I used to let it play out...I lost...I obviously try to minimize losing so if I have a bad feeling, tired, can't concentrate, etc.  I bail out before bad things happen. 

     What's the worst that happens... I make no bets, my numbers come in and I don't win money?  There are alot of worse outcomes than that...I'll play my methods later when I am more comfortable and confident and I may still lose...but when I feel it coming and stay in the bets...that's my fault.

    It's just business (roulette) and the most powerful concept in business is that of compounding interest or in roulette's case compounding returns.  You can't build by losing... and if you have a bad feeling...whether that be because you are too tired, player distracts you from concentrating or you just can't get comfortable in your game play...the bottom line is...you will likely lose and should leave before that happens....that's my opinion.  Maybe I'm the only person that ever felt a loss coming and played on...but I doubt it.

    Obviously you disagree and I put myself out there by making the post.  Guess we just have to agree to disagree on this

   

[Turner]

Roulette key
I will start by saying i am no expert but I have a view.

I think Speeds point is based strongly against HAR. HAR is where your system is a sine wave. You jump off when you "feel its going against you" or "are pushing your luck". A system technically should be at worst an upwardly mobile sawtooth, at best x=y. I havnt seen either.

I've run 100's of systems coded into RX for 100s of spins. They all do the same thing. Some actuals make it do holy grail things. Some actuals make it crash and burn. Every single coded system i have tested does the same thing. perhaps I am an id.ot who doesn't know what he is doing, but I think i have gained this view by my own experimentation and testing.

How can you leave a game +2u then come back later and continue be any different than never leaving the table? A random number has no relation to the last, the 10th last, the next or the 10th next. that's what i don't get about HAR.

What are people running from with HAR? A bad system?

Thing is, If i go the the casino with my wife and at 10'oclock she says, come on, lets finish up and I'm 15u up, and i leave with that 15u, have I exercised hit and run?

Do I come back next week and say...right, i was 15u up and when i left, i had 1 more step down on a progression, so I must finish that progression.....or do i start a fresh, after all, there is no difference between the next number  I missed when i left the casino, and the 1st number I see next week.....is there?

[speed]

I just think that if someone has a bad feeling before the losing streak he has a power that is unknown to the human race. If someone really has that power, then he does not need any system . I must to admit that I do not possess such power. 

Turner , you are right. Test this if u wish: when STD is more then 3.0 start bet with positive labouchere on EC to deviation go to normal until You have win goal

[Proofreaders2000]

I've decided you need at least 13 long-term winning methods--seamless and very quick to employ.  Have four system in play (or at least tracking), and play three systems virtually
(if you can) as you play one system with chips.  This way if one of the virtuals looks better that the system actually being played you can immediately switch to that system.

Above all things, two things: 1) come expecting to win a good profit    2) have a rigid stoploss if the betting doesn't go well.

[TwoCatSam]

"Maybe I'm the only person that ever felt a loss coming and played on...but I doubt it."

KEY

You are not!  I, too, have done just what you describe. 

There are times when I have sat down at the computer and just felt it was wrong.  I can't say why.  On those days I usually lose. 

I don't think we know all there is to know about a human being.  I don't think we ever will.

Good posts, Ralph, Key, Turner, Proof.

Speed.........

While I disagree with a lot you say, I sure enjoy reading your posts.  You are like the while lines down the highway; you keep us in our lane.

TCS

[Robeenhuut]

I just think that if someone has a bad feeling before the losing streak he has a power that is unknown to the human race. If someone really has that power, then he does not need any system . I must to admit that I do not possess such power. 

Turner , you are right. Test this if u wish: when STD is more then 3.0 start bet with positive labouchere on EC to deviation go to normal until You have win goal

Yeah  Speed

Only approach that i saw pass 1M spins but im aware that it  was just still a dumb luck. I bet that almost everybody that saw it would start playing it considering it a H.G  And guess what would have happened? Its that most people here are ignorant of basic facts and once you start pointing them out either you are ignored or branded a negativity spreader.

[kingsroulette]

Do we actually need long term winning methods to beat roulette?
            Before answering this, we need to understand the term "long term winner". If it means a system that wins at last and balance keeps growing gradually session by session, day by day, of course we need to play only that which can win in long term. If we talk of a method that wins every session, it is just not possible.
            If we are not targeting profit at last, why are we playing it at all?

[kingsroulette]

Do we actually need long term winning methods to beat roulette?
            Before answering this, we need to understand the term "long term winner". If it means a system that wins at last and balance keeps growing gradually session by session, day by day, of course we need to play only that which can win in long term. If we talk of a method that wins every session, it is just not possible.
            If we are not targeting profit at last, why are we playing it at all?

[speed]

Yeah  Speed

Only approach that i saw pass 1M spins but I'm aware that it  was just still a dumb luck. I bet that almost everybody that saw it would start playing it considering it a H.G  And guess what would have happened? Its that most people here are ignorant of basic facts and once you start pointing them out either you are ignored or branded a negativity spreader.

i think this deviation + positive progression have room for refinement and modification, and milions spins cant be luck. The major problem of this is that it is not playable because there are some big downs in the bank. Yes this forum is full of gamblers who will never accept the basic facts and how to accept when even moderator expanding gambling fallacy. Another problem are these self-proclaimed winners. Generally there are several people here for serious discussion.

Because of all this, this forum only can serves as like a reading of some humorous newspaper.

[iggiv]

sorry, believing in deviation and progression as a way to win is not fallacy? it is.


and u start this song "mod should think that and should not think this" again. And then tell
me again about me being obsessed with u.

Mod am i or not -- does not matter. There are 2 points of view  -- yours and mine. For me your point of view is a fallacy, for you mine. Fine. Now mod i am or not mod -- does not matter when i give my opinion as a forum member. We should respect each other and not touch personalities like u like to do. Your problem is that u make discussing roulette always personal. For u it is always "a battle", "casino promoters", "mod must think like that and think not like this". This is not about roulette, speed. Learn to concentrate on roulette, not on forum members whose opinion about roulette u don't like.

and then learn another thing. When u hope to defeat a game which is mathematically undefeatable, when u start doing it, your point of view ANYONE can declare a fallacy.
It is not like i am talking fallacies and u r not. We are both here doing it from mathematical point of view.

But the difference between us is simple.

I say You can't defeat roulette continously on a long run (only winning from time to time is your hope, like pros do it on short runs). That's what math and theory of probability says -- u can't win on long run. Now u say that with deviation and progression You can defeat roulette continously on long run. (then u add that it is not playable because of large downdraws).

Buddy, your logic  is not far away from newbies which hope to defeat roulette with red-black and martingale...And u still talk fallacies. It is ridiculous.

i don't know why i am still waisting my time with u....

[speed]

... MOD, just let me know when you finish a book about me, I think I'll get there in time to take your signature