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Roulette-focused => Testing zone => Topic started by: nottophammer on Jan 30, 11:56 AM 2016

Title: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 30, 11:56 AM 2016
Thanks to celescliff, the numbers are easier to read.
This is Jackpot 24/7.com  29.1.16 

Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 9 36
2 24 35
3 35 34
4 22 33
5 26 32
6 21 31
7 10 30
8 29 29
9 8 28
10 31 27
11 29 R 1 27 0 -27
12 26 R 2 54 0 -81
13 1 26 3 81 108 -54
14 24 R 2 52 0 -106
15 17 25 3 78 108 -76
16 34 24 2 50 72 -54
17 32 23 1 24 36 -42
18 22 R 1 23 0 -65
19 36 22 2 46 72 -39
20 9 R 1 22 0 -61
21 25 21 2 44 72 -33
22 15 20 1 21 36 -18
23 33 19 1 20 36 -2
24 25 R 1 19 0 -21
25 1 R 2 38 0 -59
26 23 18 3 57 108 -8
27 22 R 2 36 0 -44
28 19 17 3 54 108 10
29 3 16 2 34 72 48        So if you've followed the Jackpot joy topic you'll have seen you can hit £50/60, well here
30 21 R 1 16                     its +48.00, next bet is £16 if lose,then next bet is £32,if lose 32+16=48.00 profit zero
31 33                                             so stop. Take the win.
32 14
33 1
34 8
35 28
36 9
37 31
38 2
39 2
40 31
41 35
42 12
43 6
44 22
45 31
46 31
47 15
48 15
49 30
50 36
51 3
52 7
53 28
54 24
55 17
56 3
57 12
58 10
59
60

Is every one up to speed
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 30, 12:13 PM 2016
Jackpot 24/7.com   30.1.16

Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 12 36
2 34 35
3 10 34
4 7 33
5 12 R
6 12 R
7 29 32
8 14 31
9 6 30
10 21 29
11 24 28 1 29 36 7
12 27 27 1 28 36 15
13 10 R 1 27 0 -12
14 30 26 2 54 72 6
15 1 25 1 26 36 16
16 15 24 1 25 36 27
17 1 R 1 24 0 3
18 18 23 2 48 72 27
19 20 22 1 23 36 40
20 4 21 1 22 36 54             Win +£54.00   stop, go to another table, or wait for all 37 numbers to have hit. Then
21 21                                  restart. Good luck.
22 29
23 29
24 11
25 23
26 15
27 10
28 16
29 31
30 32
31 35
32 27
33 0
34 32
35 9
36 23
37 5
38 17
39 13
40 24
41 35
42 25
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 30, 12:17 PM 2016
A sheet to record your spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: TwoCatSam on Jan 30, 01:02 PM 2016
notto

Where could a body find the system rules for KTF? 

Thanks!

Sam
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jan 30, 01:04 PM 2016
The way i interpret it is once you have 12 numbers that have not repeated bet those 12. With +1 on a loss

All nottos uploads look great. Always wins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Jan 30, 01:23 PM 2016
Wrong RG, this is other one.

After 10 spins you bet all unhit numbers with +1/-1 prog.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jan 30, 01:28 PM 2016
Wrong RG, this is other one.

After 10 spins you bet all unhit numbers with +1/-1 prog.

ok thanks for correcting me

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jan 30, 01:29 PM 2016
so do we continue to bet those 26 numbers until win goal is reached? or as they hit stop betting them
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Jan 30, 01:51 PM 2016
so do we continue to bet those 26 numbers until win goal is reached? or as they hit stop betting them

When you lose, you bet +1=2 on all unhit numbers, if lose again, then +1=3 units on all unhit numbers .
On hit, you take of winning number and -1 on all unhit numbers.

That is how I understand Notto, his word will be last.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 30, 02:32 PM 2016
Wrong RG, this is other one.

After 10 spins you bet all unhit numbers with +1/-1 prog.

Yes as simple as that. Well done nextyear. Good luck to all
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 30, 03:02 PM 2016
Some have followed Jackpot joy thread will know that it is not a HG, it seems possible to win 50/60 units in spins 11-20.
Now like Winkel says its your choice when to stop, so you will have seen some times i've taken +45 or even +38, as said its your decision.
It could be start to bet at spin 11 and just press on,if you have a good BR, the bets obviously start large, but the good thing is it gets cheaper as the non hit,hit.
Over time i've found +1/-1 to be the best way to stake.
The game i'll post soon has been sent to me so know idea where they come from, in JJ topic on the sheets you'll seen at the bottom of the 10 spins how the trot is going, like 4,-1 or 8,+3. This is to do with average,you can see this in Jackpot joy average doc posted in Jackpot joy thread.
Can't think of anythink else, if you need just ask.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 30, 03:31 PM 2016
Mr WG sent these.
What makes this hard to come back is betting at just over 1/3 it takes 5 spins to hit, this is not unknown to me, as i've seen it numerous times on the machine of death, I LOVE THAT RG.
These numbers play to the average of 15.67742 in spins 11-40, as we've only got 37 spins in total, 8/ non hit in spins 1-10, so the next 30 spins that would be the 40th spin you would expect to see 23 non hit to have hit, well you can see 16 have already hit by the 37th spin, so +1 on the average of 15 already.
I see this on friday on the machine of death in corals 29.1.16 its posted in RNG, i had 9 in 1st 10 spins, so i would expect to see at 40th spins 24 non hit,well the 24th non hit,hit in spins 21 to 30, 10 spins to early. So its not unknown to lose betting at 1/3 on.
Look at Ladbrokes same day on the same sheet 11th non hit, so 26 non hit left and took 5 spins to come in, but KTF still made £122, corals made £57,


Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 21 36
2 -3 35
3 32 34
4 -8 33
5 33 R
6 10 R
7 -8 32
8 -8 31
9 -4 30
10 25 29
11 33 R 1 29 0 -29
12 -8 R 2 58 0 -87
13 10 R 3 87 0 -174
14 32 R 4 116 0 -290
15 29 28 5 145 180 -255
16 -4 R 4 112 0 -367
17 32 R 5 140 0 -507
18 18 27 6 168 216 -459
19 19 26 5 135 180 -414
20 0 25 4 104 144 -374
21 23 24 3 75 108 -341
22 34 23 2 48 72 -317
23 14 22 1 23 36 -304
24 -3 R 1 22 0 -326
25 12 21 2 44 72 -298
26 10 R 1 21 0 -319
27 -1 20 2 42 72 -289
28 -4 R 1 20 0 -309
29 31 19 2 40 72 -277
30 24 18 1 19 36 -260
31 15 17 1 18 36 -242
32 -9 16 1 17 36 -223
33 29 R 1 16 0 -239
34 -6 15 2 32 72 -199
35 17 14 1 15 36 -178
36 14 R 1 14 0 -192
37 30 13 2 28 72 -148
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 30, 04:45 PM 2016
In Jackpot joy average the Game dated 28.12.15  gets 18 non hit in 30 spins +3, non hit in 60 spins is 31,60 divided by 2 is 30, so 1 more non hit than 30.
I would have stopped at spin 23,13th spin of betting, +£52.00.

Where would you stop.
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 30 36
2 24 35
3 19 34
4 12 33
5 13 32
6 30 R
7 29 31
8 26 30
9 1 29
10 11 28
11 26 R 1 28 0 -28
12 14 27 2 56 72 -12
13 13 R 1 27 0 -39
14 21 26 2 54 72 -21
15 5 25 1 26 36 -11
16 16 24 1 25 36 0
17 11 R 1 24 0 -24
18 10 23 2 48 72 0
19 23 22 1 23 36 13
20 35 21 1 22 36 27
21 14 R 1 21 0 6
22 25 20 2 42 72 36
23 8 19 1 20 36 52
24 20 18 1 19 36 69
25 8 R 1 18 0 51
26 0 17 2 36 72 87
27 15 16 1 17 36 106
28 6 15 1 16 36 126
29 26 R 1 15 0 111
30 17 14 2 30 72 153
31 26 R 1 14 0 139
32 31 13 2 28 72 183
33 6 R 1 13 0 170
34 2 12 2 26 72 216
35 20 R 1 12 0 204
36 21 R 2 24 0 180
37 35 R 3 36 0 144
38 33 11 4 48 144 240
39 34 10 3 33 108 315
40 5 R 2 20 0 295
41 2 R 3 30 0 265
42 31 R 4 40 0 225
43 30 R 5 50 0 175
44 13 R 6 60 0 115
45 23 R 7 70 0 45
46 8 R 8 80 0 -35
47 27 9 9 90 324 199
48 22 8 8 72 288 415
49 9 7 7 56 252 611
50 17 R 6 42 0 569
51 22 R 7 49 0 520
52 28 R 8 56 0 464
53 0 R 9 63 0 401
54 1 R 10 70 0 331
55 3 6 11 77 396 650
56 22
57 3
58 6
59 17
60 21
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 31, 05:49 AM 2016
3spins +£30.00 should taken the winnings, But as you can KEEP THE FAITH  press on and you've got your +£56.00,
-1 on the 15 in 30spins, also 1 down on 30 non hits in 60 spins


Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)				
0 37
1 35 36
2 29 35
3 32 34
4 1 33
5 19 32
6 18 31
7 3 30
8 11 29
9 17 28
10 0 27
11 12 26 1 27 36 9
12 30 25 1 26 36 19
13 14 24 1 25 36 30 should have taken the £30.00
14 17 R 1 24 0 6
15 18 R 2 48 0 -42
16 26 23 3 72 108 -6
17 6 22 2 46 72 20
18 3 R 1 22 0 -2
19 19 R 2 44 0 -46
20 30 R 3 66 0 -112
21 27 21 4 88 144 -56
22 31 20 3 63 108 -11
23 13 19 2 40 72 21
24 4 18 1 19 36 38
25 29 R 1 18 0 20
26 15 17 2 36 72 56 stop £56.00
27 0 56
28 35 56
29 33 56
30 6 56
31 22 56
32 3 56
33 32 56
34 31 56
35 25 56
36 31 56
37 4 56
38 28 56
39 32 56
40 33 56
41 34 56
42 16 56
43 35 56
44 27 56
45 9 56
46 27 56
47 6 56
48 23 56
49 5 56
50 14 56
51 3 56
52 3 56
53 13 56
54 26 56
55 3 56
56 17
57 9
58 28
59 34
60 25
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 31, 04:01 PM 2016
These numbers where from under the gun in Holy Grail reply 60
Had a problem flat bet.
So how does betting the non hit only fair. +£51.00  #35 12th spin of betting.


Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 0 36
2 34 35
3 19 34
4 6 33
5 36 32
6 4 31
7 11 30
8 2 29
9 17 28 stake
10 21 27 non-hit return
11 5 26 1 27 36 9
12 10 25 1 26 36 19
13 28 24 1 25 36 30
14 21 R 1 24 0 6
15 6 R 2 48 0 -42
16 29 23 3 72 108 -6
17 33 22 2 46 72 20
18 19 R 1 22 0 -2
19 32 21 2 44 72 26
20 0 R 1 21 0 5
21 1 20 2 42 72 35
22 35 19 1 20 36 51
23 17 R
24 36 R
25 18 18
26 5 R
27 33 R
28 4 R
29 24 17
30 33 R
31 29 R
32 33 R
33 13 16
34 3 15
35 31 14
36 29 R
37 31 R
38 34 R
39 18 R
40 25 13
41 28 R
42 5 R
43 20 12
44 4 R
45 13 R
46 33 R
47 4 R
48 1 R
49 9 11
50 1 R
51 36 R
52 25 R
53 15 10
54 19 R
55 17 R
56 30 9
57 13 R
58 27 8
59 25 R
60 0 R

61 2
62 26
63 36
64 28
65 7
66 5
67 11
68 21
69 3
70 0
71 3
72 32
73 21
74 22
75 21
76 23
77 24
78 30
79 0
80 27
28
0
22
1
33
34
6
26
30
27
7
13
11
7
21
0
22
5
1
7
3
28
17
27




Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 01, 03:15 PM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 1.2.16    +£46.00, but if you must go on +£55.00

Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)		
0 37
1 22 36
2 3 35
3 12 34
4 18 33
5 33 32
6 26 31
7 6 30
8 28 29
9 2 28 stake
10 16 27 non-hit return
11 27 26 1 27 36 9
12 26 R 1 26 0 -17
13 36 25 2 52 72 3
14 35 24 1 25 36 14
15 27 R 1 24 0 -10
16 34 23 2 48 72 14
17 2 R 1 23 0 -9
18 5 22 2 46 72 17
19 32 21 1 22 36 31
20 24 20 1 21 36 46 Personally I'd stop
21 12 R 1 20 0 26
22 24 R 2 40 0 -14
23 32 R 3 60 0 -74
24 17 19 4 80 144 -10
25 28 R 3 57 0 -67
26 4 18 4 76 144 1
27 14 17 3 54 108 55 Stop
28 21 55
29 1 55
30 5 55
31 8 55
32 30 55
33 4 55
34 18 55
35 35 55
36 27
37 30
38 36
39 0
40 0
41 19
42 7
43 10
44 10
45 19
46 18
47 20
48 0
49 2
50 34
51 7
52 21
53 17
54 2
55 3
56 11
57 9
58 35
59 26
60 29

61 15
62 33
63 6
64 7
65 26
66 20
67 23
68 18
69 25
70 18
71 28
72 26
73 14
74 13
75 0
76 23
77 23
78 25
79 3
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 01, 03:21 PM 2016
When you lose, you bet +1=2 on all unhit numbers, if lose again, then +1=3 units on all unhit numbers .
On hit, you take of winning number and -1 on all unhit numbers.

That is how I understand Notto, his word will be last.

When you stop?
So we wait 10 numbers. Then start betting the other 27 as explained above. Let's say we are another 5 spins further and with profit. Where do we stop ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 01, 03:47 PM 2016
With £1.00 units,when as near to £50 or +£50, Usually you can win £50/60. Like said as close to the £50 or +£50, your decision.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 01, 03:52 PM 2016
$5 units. One session a day.  :)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 02, 04:39 AM 2016
With £1.00 units,when as near to £50 or +£50, Usually you can win £50/60. Like said as close to the £50 or +£50, your decision.

Ok sounds good. What br you recommend?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 02, 04:19 PM 2016
Hi Den 400 units.
These are Jackpot 247.com  2.2.16   KTF   +51  #6  9th spin of betting. Fast trot spins 11-30, so stating the obvious wouldn't you expect to see repeats 31-60

Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)		
0 37
1 7 36
2 21 35
3 12 34
4 17 33
5 9 32
6 5 31
7 33 30
8 36 29
9 8 28 stake
10 36 R non-hit return
11 16 27 1 28 36 8
12 17 R 1 27 0 -19
13 23 26 2 54 72 -1
14 10 25 1 26 36 9
15 35 24 1 25 36 20
16 19 23 1 24 36 32
17 30 22 1 23 36 45 could stop here
18 36 R 1 22 0 23
19 6 21 2 44 72 51 stop here
20 10 R 1 21 0 30
21 1 20 2 42 72 60
22 10 R 1 20 0 40
23 14 19 2 40 72 72
24 4 18 1 19 36 89
25 20 17 1 18 36 107
26 9 R 1 17 0 90
27 12 R 2 34 0 56
28 22 16 3 51 108 113
29 18 15 2 32 72 153
30 27 14 1 15 36 174
31 7 R 1 14 0 160
32 18 R 2 28 0 132
33 2 13 3 42 108 198
34 22 R 2 26 0 172
35 12 R 3 39 0 133
36 23 R 4 52 0 81
37 24 12 5 65 180 196
38 6 R 4 48 0 148
39 24 R 5 60 0 88
40 17 R 6 72 0 16
41 34 11 7 84 252 184
42 4 184
43 12 184
44 9 184
45 20 184
46 5 184
47 16 184
48 22 184
49 10 184
50 23 184
51 19 184
52 7 184
53 19 184
54 27 184
55 9 184
56 25 184
57 20
58 35
59 26
60 11

61 14
62 25
63 20
64 28
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 03, 12:33 PM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 3.2.16 taped for nearly 3 hrs, 82 spins.

KTF wins £45 #32 5th spin of betting, can get +50  at #0  14th spin of betting.

With 82 spins, 29non hit/60spins, used the 22 spins for a new game,should wait for all 37 to be hit, but wins +£52 #7 8th spin of betting 15th non hit, to see this you'll have to look at the sheet.
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)		
0 37
1 1 36
2 20 35
3 35 34
4 8 33
5 4 32
6 1 R
7 2 31
8 28 30
9 28 R stake
10 16 29 non-hit return
11 6 28 1 29 36 7
12 3 27 1 28 36 15
13 36 26 1 27 36 24
14 18 25 1 26 36 34
15 32 24 1 25 36 45 could stop here
16 20 R 1 24 0 21
17 30 23 2 48 72 45 Take the £45
18 4 R 1 23 0 22
19 2 R 2 46 0 -24
20 26 22 3 69 108 15
21 18 R 2 44 0 -29
22 12 21 3 66 108 13
23 34 20 2 42 72 43
24 0 19 1 20 36 59 stop here £59
25 19 18
26 27 17
27 32 R
28 11 16
29 27 R
30 27 R
31 26 R
32 0 R
33 32 R
34 28 R
35 18 R
36 0 R
37 25 15
38 2 R
39 29 14
40 4 R
41 36 R
42 12 R
43 13 13
44 3 R
45 6 R
46 13 R
47 11 R
48 29 R
49 2 R
50 25 R
51 5 12
52 12 R
53 15 11
54 4 R
55 21 10
56 26 R
57 35 R
58 20 R
59 31 9
60 17 8 29 non hit in 60 spins

61 20 R
62 16 R
63 22 7
64 8 R
65 27 R
66 22 R
67 26 R
68 36 R
69 28 R
70 36 R
71 14 6
72 18 R
73 26 R
74 4 R
75 19 R
76 13 R
77 11 R
78 7 5 Just 5 to find after 82 spins
79 12 R
80 8 R
81 30 R
82 5 R
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 03, 12:46 PM 2016
I'm impressed with your results Notto....
I will give it a try. (Virtual at first)

Did you bust your br sometimes?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JimmieB on Feb 03, 01:06 PM 2016
Hey NTH,

It's amazing right enough how you get the 15 numbers coming out from spins 11 to 40 :)!!!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 03, 03:58 PM 2016
I'm impressed with your results Notto....
I will give it a try. (Virtual at first)

Did you bust your br sometimes?

When first started yes,but over time with tweeks its got better.
Like Jimmie B said, spins 11-30 so often you get 15 non hits,also if you collect 60 spins nearly always see 30 non hit.
So if 15.68293 non hit, is avg for 30 spins, add the 15 to the number of non hit you had in the spins1-10. On todays game thats 8+15=23, at spin 40 its 23 non hit have hit, so spin 40 wil be the 30th spin.
If you look on the sheet you see the arrow pointing count back, so if start with 23 what we expect at spins 40/39 count back from boxes 40/39 in twos,use this to watch the trot,like today 13th non hit came on spin 15,look to count back and it could be only 11 non hit,so i interpret this fast and you would expect to see some of what Winkel would call 1x's, to appear. So although you could bet every spin, if you see the non hits are hitting fast,perhaps you could play for a repeat. But when the 13th non hit,hit you had won £45,me i'd stop, go to another machine or in your case table/wheel and start again.

I've updated todays Jackpot 247.com's spins it will say Jackpot joy avg
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JimmieB on Feb 03, 09:20 PM 2016
As NTH, and a few other members have mentioned, I think you need to get an understanding of the trot, which is not easy, I admit that. I now believe, after my early martingale days, this is the way to (hopefully!!) enjoy & prosper from roulette, whether that be a few quid after a night out in your local B&M casino/bookies/Latvian (oh you're lovely, and yes they are for a reason) online casino, or, make a living from it, if your BR is big enough, then fair enough, for me, it's an extra bit each month to treat the wife & kids for a nice night out dining, plus my wife would stop moaning about me being on the computer all the time on this bloody forum, although, I'm sure there would be something else for her to moan about, my small penis would be a start :), however, it's big enough to fill a pram (twice over)!!

Anyway, on a more serious note, as was mentioned earlier on another thread, experience teaches you these things, my ramblings at this moment might be getting sniggered at by the "senior" members of the forum, however, I don't think they will be, I reckon they will say, "there's a guy who is at least trying and taking it in", it's like most things in life, you need to adapt to the situation that's in front of you, it's instinct, there's a reason why people excel at what they do, they adapt, they learn, practice, get better, and they learn more , practice more, get better, they lear....yeah, you've got the picture, I know it sounds cheesy as hell, however, I believe that is the way it is.

For example, look at the thread about where are all the old school members, Soggett (sp?, apologies if wrong!!), popped up and mentioned he's going to study GUT, will he play it, I'm not sure, however, this guy is going to study it, and an experienced member to boot, and I reckon it will change his thinking to a certain extent.

If somebody asked me how to play KTF/GUT/any LOTT system, could I explain it, no I can’t, because you have to be there, in the moment. Again sounding cheesy, at almost 44 years old, and still playing football (soccer for you guys in the US of A), can I tell you how I’m going to play each game, of course not, yeah,  I have an idea before kickoff (I’ll give it my all, etc.), although, after kick off, I look what’s happening in front/behind/left/right/ of me & I play according to the situation, and I’ll do what I think is right, sometimes that is wrong, sometimes I will get it right, I’m trying to read the game...and see when I get it wrong, hopefully I won’t get it wrong again – to me the game is the trot.

Mods, please feel free to move, maybe all of this post to another part of the forum, and fellow members, sorry for the rant, I’ve been out at the pub to watch my football (again, soccer for you guys in the US of A, yes, I’m being a patronising a**hole) team, getting pumped by Aberdeen, & I’m pissed off...but I love this forum, and it’s one of the first things I check whilst having my morning coffee. ;D
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 04, 02:40 AM 2016
Jimmie, I hope that hangover will have mercy on you...  ;)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JimmieB on Feb 04, 06:21 AM 2016
 Oh, my head.... :o :( :)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 04, 06:40 AM 2016
Todays numbers J 247.com  4.2.16

Again got 82 #'s

Game 1  17non hit in 30 spins,  in 60spins 31 non hit, if use all 82 #'s 36 of 37 #'s have hit.
As i've mentioned i can see on the machine of death all 37 #'s have been hit in 120 spins,Note not always,but quite often, so does that mean the machine is in payout mode.

Game 2 +£50 just love that 5 spins,stop move on, or 14 non hits in 15 spins, why not think about betting for the repeat,you have got £50 winnings to use.
Remember the old 12 unique topic, well 12 come and the repeat is what you would get using the +£50 winnings, Just keep your whits about you,think whats happening, Non hits are fast so repeats have to start appearing.

Perhaps if members had not given Winkel so much negativity, he would have divulged how to bet every spin.

Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 23 36
2 16 35
3 27 34
4 26 33
5 5 32
6 31 31
7 28 30
8 8 29
9 36 28 stake
10 26 R non-hit return
11 20 27 1 28 36 8
12 27 R 1 27 0 -19
13 16 R 2 54 0 -73
14 4 26 3 81 108 -46
15 17 25 2 52 72 -26
16 7 24 1 25 36 -15
17 22 23 1 24 36 -3
18 22 R 1 23 0 -26
19 34 22 2 46 72 0
20 34 R 1 22 0 -22
21 11 21 2 44 72 6
22 25 20 1 21 36 21
23 14 19 1 20 36 37
24 10 18 1 19 36 54
25 24 17 1
26 13 16 1
27 19 15 1
28 31 R 1
29 17 R 2
30 8 R 3
31 2 14 4
32 34 R 3
33 1 13 4
34 3 12 3
35 20 R 2
36 20 R 3
37 13 R 4
38 35 11 5
39 31 R 4
40 16 R 5
41 36
42 35
43 30
44 18
45 6
46 11
47 3
48 13
49 8
50 14
51 35
52 1
53 33
54 12
55 4
56 16
57 12
58 26
59 24
60 34

61 0
62 22
63 4
64 12
65 36
66 21
67 4
68 32
69 33
70 35
71 18
72 30
73 6
74 8
75 15
76 10
77 9
78 30
79 26
80 4
81 27
82 34
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 04, 08:44 PM 2016
HOLY CRAP!!!

Just got back from the local B&M.
That had to be the easiest $50 I ever made in 14 spins.

I played on an American wheel and also covered the 0 and 00 for a total of $28 on level one and used +1 on a loss and -1on a win.
Is that correct?

I used a $400 BR and did not go past level of +2.
What would be the best maximum level of progression to quit after?

I can't believe it was that simple.
I keep thinking I am missing something.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: thelaw on Feb 04, 08:49 PM 2016
HOLY CRAP!!!

Just got back from the local B&M.
That had to be the easiest $50 I ever made in 14 spins.

I played on an American wheel and also covered the 0 and 00 for a total of $28 on level one and used +1 on a loss and -1on a win.
Is that correct?

I used a $400 BR and did not go past level of +2.
What would be the best maximum level of progression to quit after?

I can't believe it was that simple.
I keep thinking I am missing something.

-Celtic

Keep testing!!! Love to see one of these methods work out! Thanks!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 04, 08:54 PM 2016


Perhaps if members had not given Winkel so much negativity, he would have divulged how to bet every spin.



come on baby thats the name of the game around here!!

seriously though, great strategy notto
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 04, 09:13 PM 2016
Keep testing!!! Love to see one of these methods work out! Thanks!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

-Law

Thank you.

By the way this was done with very little virtual testing and played live.

The one thing that I have not seen mentioned and what I did was when a number hit I removed it from the sequence BUT I added the oldest hit number back into the sequence so I was always plaing with a total of 28 bets regardless of the level.

Is this correct.

I am a hit and run player player and this method suits me just fine.

I am disappointed that others are not posting any tweaks for testing but oh well what can you do.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 05, 03:09 AM 2016
I was always plaing with a total of 28 bets regardless of the level.
Is this correct.

This is very wrong, as you want to bet less numbers - to win more and lose less.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 05, 03:23 AM 2016
Celticknits
I play 99% of time on RNG as members know. KTF played many years now,tweeking as necessary. I was ignorant to Winkel and GUT once, but thank someone i started to read it. I could see the similarity to what i was doing with KTF. What i didn't see in KTF was how the non hit was a 1 hit and that 1 hit became a problem, repeating.
The repeats are not what i and KTF want.
But once i started to use the GUT paper tracker, i could see how the trot was working. Winkel and GUT showed how the LOTT could affect KTF.
So i started a data base on games played like the one being built using Jackpot 247.com, this showed how long a group of non hit can take to come in,its max spins, its averag to come in, the best part though is the 15 point something in 30 spins. I'll put the updated J 247.com doc at the end.

Celtic  no dont add back old hit numbers, all you do is have 10 spins scrub those that are hit, lets say its 10 out of 10,no repeat, so you have left 27 non hit numbers. Now all you do is bet the remaining non hit in this case 27, if win you now only have to bet the 26 non hit, so the non hits are going down, the wins are going up.
USE +1/-1 as you play, never drop back more than 1 unit at a time
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 05, 03:53 AM 2016
Just to make sure...those first 10...they need to be unique numbers ?

I'm going in today.... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 05, 04:06 AM 2016
As above Den

The 1st 10 spins let you know how many of the 37 non hit have hit. If 10 hit, you now start betting the 27 remaining non hit, if win,now you bet the 26 non hit, again if win now bet the 25 non hit.
As the non hit,hit your bets get cheaper.

Progression use +1/-1, only drop back 1 unit at a time.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 05, 04:38 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com  5.2.16  KTF +£46.00 

Do you see dont start betting untill spin 11, i stopped at spin 22, 12 bet of betting. If you KEEP THE FAITH next spin +63 you must stop. Thats 19 non hit in 23 spins, so the 1 hit should start to appear, this is why you stop, you have made +46 or even +63, go to another table where a fresh 37 non hit are due.

Why do i say due, its because you have not been involved in its previous spins,so all 37 pockets are fresh to KTF.

Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)		
0 37
1 34 36
2 18 35
3 19 34
4 14 33
5 20 32
6 22 31
7 7 30
8 5 29
9 30 28 stake
10 10 27 non-hit return
11 10 R 1 27 0 -27
12 35 26 2 54 72 -9
13 19 R 1 26 0 -35
14 11 25 2 52 72 -15
15 2 24 1 25 36 -4
16 18 R 1 24 0 -28
17 27 23 2 48 72 -4
18 1 22 1 23 36 9
19 34 R 1 22 0 -13
20 28 21 2 44 72 15
21 36 20 1 21 36 30
22 26 19 1 20 36 46 I'd stop here
23 25 18 1 19 36 63
24 15 17
25 2 R
26 26 R
27 31 16
28 29 15
29 19 R
30 2 R
31 13 14
32 11 R
33 23 13
34 19 R
35 22 R
36 31 R
37 14 R
38 9 12
39 10 R
40 8 11 so 11 non-hit left to find
41 18 R That’s 16 non-hit in last 30 spins
42 25 R
43 23 R
44 0 10
45 8 R
46 36 R
47 4 9
48 15 R
49 2 R
50 9 R
51 25 R
52 16 8
53 18 R
54 36 R
55
56
57
58
59
60
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: maestro on Feb 05, 05:29 AM 2016
no wonder notto you got 19 numbers non hit in 23 spins   that is z score -4. something you are set to get 2,3 hits..good luck
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 05, 05:40 AM 2016
no wonder notto you got 19 numbers non hit in 23 spins   that is z score -4. something you are set to get 2,3 hits..good luck

now you've lost me
did you mean19 non hit numbers in 23 spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 05, 05:55 AM 2016
Now i was a naughty boy at school, when at school,so you will understand i missed out the maths.
With my cse in maths, not O level or A level, so when a math guy throws Z score, what does it mean.

Am i going to sit in the betting shop playing on the machine of death working out Z scores, come on, Roulette is a game of chance.

To me i want something that is simple, not working out formulas, i'll bliss fully play the non hit of the wheel, start with 37, after 10 spins away goes nottop hammer betting the remaining non hit, 5 some times 12 spins later out the door +50 or as near to the +50
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 05, 06:18 AM 2016
Now i was a naughty boy at school... away goes notti hammer  out the door +50 or as near to the +50

I knew that naughty have to do something with notti!
Glad you make it work for you.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Chris555p on Feb 05, 08:52 AM 2016
@Notto - What is the maximum number of units for the progression, u had to use with this system.....?
What is 2 or 3 units per number or more....? I will give it a test run, Thanks.




Chris
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 05, 10:06 AM 2016
This is very wrong, as you want to bet less numbers - to win more and lose less.

Thank you for the information.
I understand what you are saying.
I did it because I saw several of the uniques hit when they could have been added on.
Live and learn.

-Celticknits
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 05, 10:14 AM 2016
Celticknits
I play 99% of time on RNG as members know. KTF played many years now,tweeking as necessary. I was ignorant to Winkel and GUT once, but thank someone i started to read it. I could see the similarity to what i was doing with KTF. What i didn't see in KTF was how the non hit was a 1 hit and that 1 hit became a problem, repeating.
The repeats are not what i and KTF want.
But once i started to use the GUT paper tracker, i could see how the trot was working. Winkel and GUT showed how the LOTT could affect KTF.
So i started a data base on games played like the one being built using Jackpot 247.com, this showed how long a group of non hit can take to come in,its max spins, its averag to come in, the best part though is the 15 point something in 30 spins. I'll put the updated J 247.com doc at the end.

Celtic  no dont add back old hit numbers, all you do is have 10 spins scrub those that are hit, lets say its 10 out of 10,no repeat, so you have left 27 non hit numbers. Now all you do is bet the remaining non hit in this case 27, if win you now only have to bet the 26 non hit, so the non hits are going down, the wins are going up.
USE +1/-1 as you play, never drop back more than 1 unit at a time

-Notto

I understand what you are saying and thank you for this information.
I do use +1/-1 and only drop back 1 on a win.

By the way thank you for the blank chart you posted near the beginning of this thread, I find it easier to track everything with it.

-Celticknits
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 05, 12:17 PM 2016
@Notto - What is the maximum number of units for the progression, u had to use with this system.....?
What is 2 or 3 units per number or more....? I will give it a test run, Thanks.




Chris
Hi Chris the progression all depends on the trot, if 0x's are not showing, then the prog goes up because the 1x's are hitting.
I've seen in testing it get to double figures, but thankfully that does not happen to often.
When you test think of where your stop loss will be, as shown you can make 50/60 units, also i've said why i take an earlier win, remember to watch how fast the non hit,hit. Todays game spins 11-20 was avg, 6, 0x to 4, 1x, so the prog was low,then spins 21-30, 3 0x's hit plus +46 0n the #26,so i stopped, in 12 spins of betting we've had 8 0x's so i'd expect to see some repeats, but the win is there so move to another table and start with 37 non hits
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Feb 05, 04:36 PM 2016
-Law

Thank you.

By the way this was done with very little virtual testing and played live.

The one thing that I have not seen mentioned and what I did was when a number hit I removed it from the sequence BUT I added the oldest hit number back into the sequence so I was always plaing with a total of 28 bets regardless of the level.

Is this correct.

I am a hit and run player player and this method suits me just fine.

I am disappointed that others are not posting any tweaks for testing but oh well what can you do.

-Celtic

What you have done is every spin becomes your 28 sleeper spin. 
The only advice I have for you is make sure you do it right. Especially when you have multiple repeats to count to make your 28 sleepers.
The trout from hell that will kill you is one that has 5-7 repeats with in 15 to 20 spins. That's were you will have to be careful as to which numbers you adding, since removing is easy it's the last number hit.
However, you would have to be very unlucky for that to happen. It does happen.
Have enough arsenal to protect you from that disaster or have a stop loss somewhere.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 06, 05:21 AM 2016
Just copying last nights #'s down.
From the way it starts it could be a bust day. Be back soon as i'm doing it the old pen and paper way.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 06, 06:09 AM 2016
Dramatic!

Hopefully with happy ending...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 06, 06:16 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 6.2.16  KTF, if you KEEP THE FAITH  +£168
But you got to jump, take a win as close to the £50/60, personally i'd have stopped at spin 16. I/we talk of the trot, well how about you watch the trot of the profit, here it builds 3 spins +27, next spin down to +2, so you should have stopped/jumped. Now your calling your self stupid should of got off with the money, so i'll KTF up to +24, do you go, you KTF +£36, £9 higher than the last high, so STOP.
There you now got two trots to watch.


Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 34 36
2 4 35
3 0 34
4 7 33
5 34 r
6 25 32
7 23 31
8 22 30
9 6 29 stake
10 9 28 non-hit return
11 27 27 1 28 36 8
12 3 26 1 27 36 17
13 11 25 1 26 36 27
14 11 r 1 25 0 2
15 13 24 2 50 72 24
16 17 23 1 24 36 36
17 3 r 1 23 0 13
18 34 r 2 46 0 -33
19 4 r 3 69 0 -102
20 16 22 4 92 144 -50
21 17 r 3 66 0 -116
22 21 21 4 88 144 -60
23 18 20 3 63 108 -15
24 7 r 2 40 0 -55
25 3 r 3 60 0 -115
26 32 19 4 80 144 -51
27 5 18 3 57 108 0
28 34 r 2 36 0 -36
29 17 r 3 54 0 -90
30 19 17 4 72 144 -18
31 3 r 3 51 0 -69
32 10 16 4 68 144 7
33 17 r 3 48 0 -41
34 30 15 4 64 144 39
35 23 r 3 45 0 -6
36 21 r 4 60 0 -66
37 18 r 5 75 0 -141
38 4 r 6 90 0 -231
39 3 r 7 105 0 -336
40 3 r 8 120 0 -456
41 8 14 9 135 324 -267
42 14 13 8 112 288 -91
43 16 r 7 91 0 -182
44 33 12 8 104 288 2
45 17 r 7 84 0 -82
46 16 r 8 96 0 -178
47 26 11 9 108 324 38
48 24 10 8 88 288 238
49 0 r 7 70 0 168

Just see your post next year, all i hear is Jon Bon Jovi  KEEP THE FAITH
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 06, 06:25 AM 2016
It is becoming boring...
Could you not lose sometime, just for fun?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 06, 06:33 AM 2016
If you are following the sheets on this you will see in between the 4*10 boxes a count going on.
This might help you see the trot.
You'll have your 1st 10 spins to find out how many non hit,hit. Today 9.

Now in jackpot joy average doc, it shows avg in 30 spins, spins 11-40, 15.72093, so if you except we see 15 non hit in 30 spins,know the MATH guys will say round up to 16,but the 15 is half of 30, perfect.

So if we agree we could get 15 non hit in next 30spins, we add the 9 +15 to get 24.

Now back track from 39/40 in 2's, this could be the trot.

So 0x 12 is early and you are +27, so you could take the winnings or wait and watch the trot non hit 14 is well early and look what happens. Do i need to show more.

Next year, its got to take a hit sometime, but like the guvnor Winkel says watch the trot if not sure then jump.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 06, 10:40 AM 2016
Thx Notto. ... played 3 sessions  (rng)... +120  units.

It could be more . First session was easy. Second session go forward and back a bit so I stopped when I was in +. Third session smoothly. 

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 06, 01:16 PM 2016
Hi Den
Thats it you can always take an early win.
Like todays up in 3 spins,down, then came back so take the win
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Feb 06, 06:15 PM 2016
Hello Notto... Just to see that I have this correct. Here are the first 25 spins from my live play tonight on Celtic's 00 wheel.

1. 10 (37)
2. 19 (36)
3. 17 (35)
4. 10 (35)
5. 27 (34)
6. 13 (33)
7. 16 (32)
8. 34 (31)
9. 7 (30)
10. 24 (29) So 9 original numbers and 1 repeat.
11. 3 (28) +7.
12. 28 (27) +15.
13. 17 (27) -12.
14. 36 (26) +6.
15. 11 (25) +16.
16. 10 (25) -9.
17. 23 (24) +13.
18. 34 (24) -11.
19. 29 (23) +13.
20. 31 (22) +26.
21. 5 (21) +40.
22. 10 (21) +19.
23. 13 (21) -23.
24. 26 (20) +22.
25. 25 (19) +54.

Not all smooth sailing as you can see with the 5 losses...but still came out with a good profit after the 25 spins.

cheers
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 06, 07:52 PM 2016
it did what its suppose to do, you can always take an earlier win like +40.
Good to see it won on the 00 wheel that extra pocket can be a problem.
You'll need to dry test and see if $40/50 be a good time to quit for that extra pocket.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 06, 08:23 PM 2016
Woggy you did +1 on a loss -1 on a win?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 06, 08:37 PM 2016
I like it alot. Unplayable on a real table

Need to be airball or a fair rng

Notto, my local casino has $5 rng at the bar......maybe a whiskey and some playtime
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 06, 09:23 PM 2016
it did what its suppose to do, you can always take an earlier win like +40.
Good to see it won on the 00 wheel that extra pocket can be a problem.
You'll need to dry test and see if $40/50 be a good time to quit for that extra pocket.

-notto

All of my live play has been on an American 00 wheel.
No Euro 0 wheel available live in my area.
I have not noticed anything bad with KTF bon the American wheel but I have only been playing it for about a week.
Made $200+ last week.
I do cover the individual 0 and 00 seperately.
So my initial bet is 28 units.

One of the main things I have to watch when I play KTF is to not get greedy.
Once I see $30-40 I start looking for an out.
If I hit $30 within the first six spins I will quit.

I may then take the $30 profit and play the Dont Knock It method.
Regardless my maximum time in the casino will be 1-1/2 hours.

Also if I am up around the 30th spin and had ANY profit I would quit.

I have to slow down at my B&M because they are starting to take notice.
I never use a players card but they can still track me with the eye in the sky and facial recognition.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 06, 09:41 PM 2016
Woggy you did +1 on a loss -1 on a win?

I don't think he did.

Assuming the numbers in brackets are his stake look at the bets around spin 13.
On the loss it looks like he reduced by 1 instead of increasing.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 04:06 AM 2016
The prog would be 1,1,1,2,1,1,2,1,2,1,1,1,2,3,2

Celticknits
Once I see $30-40 I start looking for an out.
If I hit $30 within the first six spins I will quit.  Good to read,why go for more, the 1x's will appear, making you have to KFT.

The £50/60 is on euro, on the 00 like celt's make it lower, that 1 xtra pocket means early repeat longer to play
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 07, 05:01 AM 2016
... that 1 xtra pocket means early repeat longer to play

Notto, I think that the more numbers there are - the less chance for repeat!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 06:20 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 7.2.16  KTF +£45  #14  i'd take it

Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 3 36
2 4 35
3 21 34
4 10 33
5 5 32
6 22 31
7 3 r
8 3 r
9 36 30 stake
10 0 29 non-hit return
11 12 28 1 29 36 7
12 20 27 1 28 36 15
13 25 26 1 27 36 24
14 23 25 1 26 36 34
15 14 24 1 25 36 45
16 19 23 1 24 36 57
17 6 22 1
18 20 r 1
19 22 r 2
20 33 21 3
21 2 20 2
22 2 r 1
23 33 r 2
24 29 19 3
25 27 18 2
26 35 17 1
27 7 16 1
28 5 r 1
29 20 r 2
30 35 r 3
31 26 15 4
32 2 r 3
33 0 r 4
34 6 r 5
35 11 14 6
36 34 13 5
37 7 r 4
38 18 12 5
39 15 11 4
40 23 r 3
41 23 r
42 31 10
43 6 r
44 32 9
45 27 r
46 19 r
47 11 r
48 26 r
49 28 8
50 8 7
51 2 r
52 25 r
53 33 r
54 36 r
55 24 6
56 22 r
57 30 5
58 16 4
59 26 r
60 5 r

61 12 r
62 30 r
63 26 r
64 14 r
65 22 r
66 32 r
67 16 r
68 1 3
69 27 r
70 0 r
71 14 r
72 17 2
73 27 r
74 14 r
75 1 r
76 4 r
77 0 r
78 32 r
79 8 r
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 08:07 AM 2016
Wow from the past
Main Roulette Board / Re: Have I figured something new out about roulette?
« on: March 05, 2014, 07:38:35 PM »
Wyldegibson.
 No need to be sorry as any idea is worth seeing, you never know,the math people might have given you the answer you were looking for,the H.G.
 The old Ausguy was liking it for a while, and he's not a bad old guy,lol RNGGGGGGGGGGG.

Here's some rng from today in ladbrokes. I'll place them in blocks of ten. Won £51.00 on repeats and new numbers to come.
11,17,12,26,25,30,19,24,10,4

16,23,29,21,30,21,13,14,11,23

24,1,11,1,28,32,22,29,10,32

30,23,3,11,25,34,32,33,0,16

28,35,13,31,0,10,26,26,3,3

34,24,22,30,5,23,17,14,31,9

28,9,4,21,24,0,4,28,31,12

0,14,34,32,23,29,26,19,8

 But really forget all the outside bets, the casino loves people playing them. Remember when column3 is missing for 30 odd spins and black hitting for say 24 spins, its BOOM

Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 11 36
2 17 35
3 12 34
4 26 33
5 25 32
6 30 31
7 19 30
8 24 29
9 10 28 stake
10 4 27 non-hit return
11 16 26 1 27 36 9
12 23 25 1 26 36 19
13 29 24 1 25 36 30
14 21 23 1 24 36 42

Not quite KTF but i'm on its case, but it would be +42 and go
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Feb 07, 08:26 AM 2016
Woggy you did +1 on a loss -1 on a win?

Yes, I did mate. The numbers in brackets are the numbers reducing after a hit. The highest I went was 3 units on spin 24 and then reduced it to 2 units on spin 25.

cheers
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 11:18 AM 2016
Yes, I did mate. The numbers in brackets are the numbers reducing after a hit. The highest I went was 3 units on spin 24 and then reduced it to 2 units on spin 25.

cheers

Hi Wiggy i did the prog in reply 60, maybe take an earlier win that extra pocket could make you bet longer, +40 was there
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 07, 11:30 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 7.2.16  KTF +£45  #14  i'd take it

Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 3 36
2 4 35
3 21 34
4 10 33
5 5 32
6 22 31
7 3 r
8 3 r
9 36 30 stake
10 0 29 non-hit return
11 12 28 1 29 36 7
12 20 27 1 28 36 15
13 25 26 1 27 36 24
14 23 25 1 26 36 34
15 14 24 1 25 36 45
16 19 23 1 24 36 57
17 6 22 1
18 20 r 1
19 22 r 2
20 33 21 3
21 2 20 2
22 2 r 1
23 33 r 2
24 29 19 3
25 27 18 2
26 35 17 1
27 7 16 1
28 5 r 1
29 20 r 2
30 35 r 3
31 26 15 4
32 2 r 3
33 0 r 4
34 6 r 5
35 11 14 6
36 34 13 5
37 7 r 4
38 18 12 5
39 15 11 4
40 23 r 3
41 23 r
42 31 10
43 6 r
44 32 9
45 27 r
46 19 r
47 11 r
48 26 r
49 28 8
50 8 7
51 2 r
52 25 r
53 33 r
54 36 r
55 24 6
56 22 r
57 30 5
58 16 4
59 26 r
60 5 r

61 12 r
62 30 r
63 26 r
64 14 r
65 22 r
66 32 r
67 16 r
68 1 3
69 27 r
70 0 r
71 14 r
72 17 2
73 27 r
74 14 r
75 1 r
76 4 r
77 0 r
78 32 r
79 8 r

-notto

Would youplease take a look at the attached copy of your latest game chart and confirm whether I have labelled the columns correctly and explain what column #2 represents and how you use it while playing?

Thank You
-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 07, 11:53 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 3.2.16 taped for nearly 3 hrs, 82 spins.

KTF wins £45 #32 5th spin of betting, can get +50  at #0  14th spin of betting.

With 82 spins, 29non hit/60spins, used the 22 spins for a new game,should wait for all 37 to be hit, but wins +£52 #7 8th spin of betting 15th non hit, to see this you'll have to look at the sheet.
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)		
0 37
1 1 36
2 20 35
3 35 34
4 8 33
5 4 32
6 1 R
7 2 31
8 28 30
9 28 R stake
10 16 29 non-hit return
11 6 28 1 29 36 7
12 3 27 1 28 36 15
13 36 26 1 27 36 24
14 18 25 1 26 36 34
15 32 24 1 25 36 45 could stop here
16 20 R 1 24 0 21
17 30 23 2 48 72 45 Take the £45
18 4 R 1 23 0 22
19 2 R 2 46 0 -24
20 26 22 3 69 108 15
21 18 R 2 44 0 -29
22 12 21 3 66 108 13
23 34 20 2 42 72 43
24 0 19 1 20 36 59 stop here £59
25 19 18
26 27 17
27 32 R
28 11 16
29 27 R
30 27 R
31 26 R
32 0 R
33 32 R
34 28 R
35 18 R
36 0 R
37 25 15
38 2 R
39 29 14
40 4 R
41 36 R
42 12 R
43 13 13
44 3 R
45 6 R
46 13 R
47 11 R
48 29 R
49 2 R
50 25 R
51 5 12
52 12 R
53 15 11
54 4 R
55 21 10
56 26 R
57 35 R
58 20 R
59 31 9
60 17 8 29 non hit in 60 spins

61 20 R
62 16 R
63 22 7
64 8 R
65 27 R
66 22 R
67 26 R
68 36 R
69 28 R
70 36 R
71 14 6
72 18 R
73 26 R
74 4 R
75 19 R
76 13 R
77 11 R
78 7 5 Just 5 to find after 82 spins
79 12 R
80 8 R
81 30 R
82 5 R

-notto

I assume you were playing an American wheel if not please explain the 29 stake when you started betting in line #11 also, when you started betting in spin #11 you only had 9 unique numbers.
What # did you put the additional chip on?

Thank You
-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 07, 12:42 PM 2016
...... Won £51.00 on repeats and new numbers to come.

Notto, how you won on repeaters here?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 12:42 PM 2016
 Answer to Reply 66

column 1 is the number spun, 10, column 2 is whether a repeat or a non hit
So i know 10 non hit have come,  making 27 units the bet column 3, and show it as R,repeat, column 2.

Answer to reply 67
spin 0  37 non hit
spin 10 29

So 8 non hit would leave 29 to stake, spins 1-10 show 2 R, repeat. 1&28
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 12:54 PM 2016
Notto, how you won on repeaters here?

Long ago, might have been watching the previous 10 spins, they always seems to get a repeat from those previous 10, i would wait 5/6 spins if none have hit iwould bet the previous block of 10. Look at 1st block of 10, you see 30, well in the second block i'm waitng 5 spins and what hits the 30,so the bet has gone.Now in spins 21-30 keep track of spins 11-20, 4th spin repeat, bet gone
Wow from the past
Main Roulette Board / Re: Have I figured something new out about roulette?
« on: March 05, 2014, 07:38:35 PM »
Wyldegibson.
 No need to be sorry as any idea is worth seeing, you never know,the math people might have given you the answer you were looking for,the H.G.
 The old Ausguy was liking it for a while, and he's not a bad old guy,lol RNGGGGGGGGGGG.

Here's some rng from today in ladbrokes. I'll place them in blocks of ten. Won £51.00 on repeats and new numbers to come.
11,17,12,26,25,30,19,24,10,4

16,23,29,21,30,21,13,14,11,23

24,1,11,1,28,32,22,29,10,32

30,23,3,11,25,34,32,33,0,16

28,35,13,31,0,10,26,26,3,3

34,24,22,30,5,23,17,14,31,9

28,9,4,21,24,0,4,28,31,12

0,14,34,32,23,29,26,19,8

 But really forget all the outside bets, the casino loves people playing them. Remember when column3 is missing for 30 odd spins and black hitting for say 24 spins, its BOOM

Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 11 36
2 17 35
3 12 34
4 26 33
5 25 32
6 30 31
7 19 30
8 24 29
9 10 28 stake
10 4 27 non-hit return
11 16 26 1 27 36 9
12 23 25 1 26 36 19
13 29 24 1 25 36 30
14 21 23 1 24 36 42

Not quite KTF but i'm on its case, but it would be +42 and go

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 07, 01:01 PM 2016
Thanks Notto, but were you playing last 10 to repeat, or just watching?
Also +1/-1?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 01:19 PM 2016
Thanks Notto, but were you playing last 10 to repeat, or just watching?
Also +1/-1?

if the block of 10 is 8 with 2 repeats,i'd bet the 8#'s with starting units of .20p
1,1,1,1,2,2,3,4,5,10,10,15,20,25,30,45,60. 17 chances +the 5 virtual and still lost.

So that idea went to the scrap heap, with many others.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 07, 01:38 PM 2016
Answer to Reply 66

column 1 is the number spun, 10, column 2 is whether a repeat or a non hit
So i know 10 non hit have come,  making 27 units the bet column 3, and show it as R,repeat, column 2.

Answer to reply 67
spin 0  37 non hit
spin 10 29

So 8 non hit would leave 29 to stake, spins 1-10 show 2 R, repeat. 1&28

Thank you for your quick reply

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 01:47 PM 2016
Hi celts

i some times wonder if posted right, look, think, yeah got to be right.

only just found out about insert code thanks to Celescliff
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 07, 02:03 PM 2016
Hi celts

i some times wonder if posted right, look, think, yeah got to be right.

only just found out about insert code thanks to Celescliff

-notto

I find the charts work great once you understand them.
I was not aware that you were staking the repeats in the first 10.
I alwars waited for 10 straight uniques.
Do you have a recommended MAXIMUM number of repeats that you would accecpt before starting to bet.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: thelaw on Feb 07, 02:53 PM 2016
To NH and everyone testing here:

Might be a good idea to keep a running total in units.

I've found that threads that keep this info up-to-date with testing, get a stronger response from others viewing the thread.

Just my $.02.

Keep up the great work-much appreciated :thumbsup:!!!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 02:59 PM 2016
No i dont touch the repeats in KTF the repeats mentioned few posts back  where some thing else. It was the numbers from ladbrokes i was showing.

KTF 1st 10 spins, if say 2 repeat in that 10, then take the 8 from the 37, your left with 29 unique non hit, thats your first bet, depending on whether wins or loseses use +1/-1, +1 on a loss, -1 on a win   
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 07, 03:08 PM 2016
No i dont touch the repeats in KTF the repeats mentioned few posts back  where some thing else. It was the numbers from ladbrokes i was showing.

KTF 1st 10 spins, if say 2 repeat in that 10, then take the 8 from the 37, your left with 29 unique non hit, thats your first bet, depending on whether wins or loseses use +1/-1, +1 on a loss, -1 on a win

-notto

Finally the light came on for me.
Sorry to be such a pain but when my testing with KTF is live with a $500 BR I just want to be sure I understand.
I will not bother you again today.

Again----Thank You

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 04:18 PM 2016
NO, if not sure just ask.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Feb 07, 04:35 PM 2016
Hello Notto,

First few numbers from my live game today. Celtic 00 wheel.

1. 11 (37)
2. 5 (36)
3. 4 (35)
4. 16 (34)
5. 25 (33)
6. 33 (32)
7. 8 (31)
8. 18 (30)
9. 3 (29)
10. 7 (28)
11. 19 (27) stake x 1. +8.
12. 23 (26) stake x 1. +9 (+17)
13. 35 (25) stake x 1. +10 (+27)
14. 17 (24) stake x 1. +11 (+38)

Keeps winning.  :thumbsup: I think you are right. Taking close to 40 units on 00 is the best way.

cheers
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Wally Gator on Feb 07, 10:49 PM 2016
Keeps winning.  :thumbsup: I think you are right. Taking close to 40 units on 00 is the best way.


@ Wiggy

Is there a reason you say "00 is the best way""? Just curious ....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 07, 10:51 PM 2016


@ Wiggy

Is there a reason you say "00 is the best way""? Just curious ....

He means +40 on 00 is the best way on the 00 wheel. Where as +50 is the best on 0 wheel

He was talking about when to quit


He wasnt saying 00 was best. He meant win goal on that particular wheel
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 07, 10:55 PM 2016
Notto. Id like to say good work and thanks for your updates

You are a no bullshit kind of guy and your ktf method is a C.W.B

 8)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 07, 11:17 PM 2016
Notto. Id like to say good work and thanks for your updates

You are a no bullshit kind of guy and your ktf method is a C.W.B

 8)

What does C.W.B. stand for?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 08, 03:07 AM 2016
Central Weather Bureau  >:D !
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 08, 03:08 AM 2016
Central Weather Bureau  >:D !
The Center for Wooden Boats....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Feb 08, 04:06 AM 2016
C.W.B. = Cool Way to Bet  :xd:

He means +40 on 00 is the best way on the 00 wheel. Where as +50 is the best on 0 wheel

He was talking about when to quit


He wasnt saying 00 was best. He meant win goal on that particular wheel

Thanks for that RG, yes that's what I was meaning. Taking +40 on the 00 has worked great on my tests so far.

cheers
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: blueman on Feb 08, 04:58 AM 2016
FIGHTING-FUND:400

LOSS-LIMIT:25%
BOTTOM-LINE TARGET-5%
WIN GOALS-10%
---------------------------------
HAPPY-POINT TARGET-25%
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 08, 08:22 AM 2016
Anybody lost with this already? 
I did 8 sessions now. + 360

The funny thing is that I use rng.
Highest bet units was 3

 :thumbsup:

Btw it could be more if I ktf and go a few more spins. But I just listen to my feeling at the moment.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 08, 09:20 AM 2016
Thats it Den

Take the early win, yes if you KTF could be more, but why not make loads of little wins often.

I always play RNG on the machine of death
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 08, 10:47 AM 2016
Thats it Den

Take the early win, yes if you KTF could be more, but why not make loads of little wins often.

I always play RNG on the machine of death


Good day notto.

Ah yes the early win.
Attached are the live spins from my local B&M from earlier today.

The question for today is:
I always cover the 0 and 00 and do not take them down.
Hit 5 times in this sequence today.
Would you reduce your bet amount by 1 if you were say at +2 progression and the 0/00 hit?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 08, 10:51 AM 2016
Anybody lost with this already? 
I did 8 sessions now. + 360

The funny thing is that I use rng.
Highest bet units was 3

 :thumbsup:

Btw it could be more if I ktf and go a few more spins. But I just listen to my feeling at the moment.


Not yet, and like you I am now only playing with winnings from last week.

I have always said that player greed will be the biggest killer to this system.


-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: dennisbelle on Feb 08, 11:20 AM 2016
Any one have a problem getting that many bets (20+) down before the dealer waves you off saying "no more bets"?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RFMAXX on Feb 08, 12:11 PM 2016
No Computer soft touch terminals in Ur casino? Makes it easy to Track and to lay all bets within time
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 08, 12:20 PM 2016
Any one have a problem getting that many bets (20+) down before the dealer waves you off saying "no more bets"?

Yep. I had that problem. So I tried rng fast spins. In 10 seconds I had my 10 spins. And then put your bets . On a hit rebet  and erase one. Works surprisingly very good.

I'm sure we can take many wins with this. But the question. ...how many busts are waiting us????? Cuz we need many sessions to recover from that
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: thelaw on Feb 08, 12:47 PM 2016
Yep. I had that problem. So I tried rng fast spins. In 10 seconds I had my 10 spins. And then put your bets . On a hit rebet  and erase one. Works surprisingly very good.

I'm sure we can take many wins with this. But the question. ...how many busts are waiting us????? Cuz we need many sessions to recover from that

An RNG Destroyer?.............now that's a completely different animal!!! :thumbsup:

Wonder how much you could win before an online casino would cancel your account? :question:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 08, 01:05 PM 2016
Jackpot 247.com  8.2.16  KTF  +£42 #26   4th bet

Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 12 36
2 29 35
3 22 34
4 1 33
5 25 32
6 3 31
7 15 30
8 27 29
9 11 28 stake
10 16 27 non-hit return
11 36 26 1 27 36 9
12 9 25 1 26 36 19
13 17 24 1 25 36 30
14 26 23 1 24 36 42
15 20 22 1
16 21 21 1
17 0 20 1
18 0 r 2
19 28 19 3
20 7 18 2
21 27 r 1
22 31 17 2
23 30 16 1
24 4 15 1
25 25 r 1
26 26 r 2
27 23 14 3
28 28 r 2
29 15 r 3
30 9 r 4
31 28 r 5
32 19 13 6
33 5 12 5
34 20 r 4
35 34 11 5
36 12 r 4
37 19 r 5
38 31 r 6
39 10 10 7
40 9 r 6
41 34
42 23
43 19
44 1
45 20
46 23
47 35
48 6
49 34
50 7
51 22
52 18
53 36
54 27
55 21
56 33
57 17
58 14
59 10
60 12
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 08, 01:17 PM 2016
Uhm don't want to crash the party but...I just had a bust.  :'(

Those them nrs kept repeating. And my bankroll finished b4 I could fight back.

Total -40 now

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 08, 03:25 PM 2016

Good day notto.

Ah yes the early win.
Attached are the live spins from my local B&M from earlier today.

The question for today is:
I always cover the 0 and 00 and do not take them down.
Hit 5 times in this sequence today.
Would you reduce your bet amount by 1 if you were say at +2 progression and the 0/00 hit?

-Celtic

The only time theres a unit on 0/00 is if they have not been hit.
So in spins 11-20 the 00 would have a unit on it, after spin 14 no more betting zeros, if azero came now the prog  would +1
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)			
0 38
1 35 37
2 2 36
3 35 r
4 0 35
5 22 34
6 27 33
7 5 32
8 12 31
9 28 30 stake
10 26 29 non-hit return
11 23 28 1 29 36 7
12 20 27 1 28 36 15
13 33 26 1 27 36 24
14 0-0 25 1 26 36 34
15 6 24 1 25 36 45 should have stopped
16 28 r 1 24 0 21
17 25 23 2 48 72 45 again stop
18 27 r 1 23 0 22
19 33 r 2 46 0 -24
20 1 22 3 69 108 15
21 15 21 2 44 72 43
22 29 20 1 21 36 58
23 33 r 1 20 0 38
24 36 19 2 40 72 70
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JimmieB on Feb 09, 03:18 AM 2016
Had a blow out the other night as well, thing is though, if I had a bit more in my BR, it would have came back, not to my original BR, not far of it though, don’t let Denzsie’s & my own blow out put you off, this is a good system!!!

Brief summary, I was playing live online at Sky Casino on one of the Latvian wheels, the thing is I normally play the “UK” wheels available, first game of the night with a BR of 549 units (betting 10p with £54.90 in the bank)...first 10 spins, no repeats, spins 11-20, just the 5 non hits hit, (N,N,R,R,R,R,N,N,R,N), spins 21-26, just the one non hit, spin 22, damn repeats, my BR was done after spin 26, I had 160 units left, although, I kept watching, and, yip, you guessed it spins 27 to 34, 7 of the non hits hit out of 8, spin 28 was the only repeat, and I had my 15 non hits hit from spins 11-40 by spin 39, if I had the BR it would have been back up to 541units after spin 39, the highest level bet was 7.

Jim
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 09, 04:30 AM 2016
Let me throw this at you.
What is going to happen when you arrive at the wheel.
Do you know how many red you will get, same for all outside bets, you dont know.
The one thing you do know is that theres 37 non hit waiting for you.

Well you could say, Nottophammer, you dont know how,they are going to come. True.

But as you can see in spins 11-40 theres 15.73913 nonhit. Look in jackpot joy average doc. I have 3 avg doc's in total, they all show in spins 11-40 there is 15 point something.

If you look in KTF and where i posted before, jackpot joy 1st12#'s in Xspins theres the sheets, majority show in spins 11-40 it gets +0 or maybe +2, the odd one showing a -1 or 2.

So you/I have an idea what is going to come, unlike outside bets
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 09, 05:17 AM 2016
Yes, nicely said. Hopefully they will not put out Roulette games when we all attack them...  :question:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: blueman on Feb 09, 05:37 AM 2016
Uhm don't want to crash the party but...I just had a bust.  :'(

Those them nrs kept repeating. And my bankroll finished b4 I could fight back.

Total -40 now

So do I. Select system, playing four days in +, and then came shit. My concentration falls after a while and the victory of greed.
Sorry, my english is Google :embarrassed:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 09, 06:03 PM 2016
Jackpot 247.com   KTF +£44  #16
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 10, 05:44 AM 2016
   jackpotjoy 10.2.16  KTF +£53  #19  12th bet of betting
1   8
2   31
3   24
4   12
5   11
6   20
7   22
8   27
9   1
10   2
11   4
12   20
13   33
14   11
15   18
16   23
17   30
18   7
19   12
20   1
21   3
22   19
23   27
24   12
25   14
26   4
27   24
28   1
29   28
30   35
31   24
32   18
33   9
34   25
35   15
36   33
37   25
38   16
39   15
40   6
41   13
42   35
43   25
44   15
45   6
46   14
47   12
48   4
49   30
50   7
51   35
52   35
53   30
54   14
55   16
56   20
57   8
58   21
59   9
60   32
   
61   34
62   6
63   20
64   2
65   4
66   18
67   9
68   22
69   13
70   27
71   1
72   17
73   3
74   12
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 10, 08:55 AM 2016
To NH and everyone testing here:

Might be a good idea to keep a running total in units.

I've found that threads that keep this info up-to-date with testing, get a stronger response from others viewing the thread.

Just my $.02.

Keep up the great work-much appreciated :thumbsup:!!!

Code: [Select]
Date 	       win	lose 	total
23.12.15 56
24.12.15 93
27.12.15 57
28.12.15 52
29.12.15 45
30.12.15 50
31.12.15 50
02.01.16 56
03.01.16 65
04.01.16 57
05.01.16 45
06.01.16 51
07.01.16 50
08.01.16 59
09.01.16 45
10.01.16 47
11.01.16 49
12.01.16 51
13.01.16 50
14.01.16 59
15.01.16 45
16.01.16 45
17.01.16 50
18.01.16 45
19.01.16 38
20.01.16 43
21.01.16 45
22.01.16 655
23.01.16 52
24.01.16 50
25.01.16 38
26.01.16 50
27.01.16 38
28.01.16 57
29.01.16 48
30.01.16 54
31.01.16 56
01.02.16 46
02.02.16 51
03.02.16 45
04.02.16 54
05.02.16 46
06.02.16 39
07.02.16 45
08.02.16 42
09.02.16 44
10.02.16 53

             2306 655 1651
Something like this, showing the 1 loss  :xd:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 10, 11:22 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com   KTF +£44  #16


-notto

Good day sir.

Would you please explain what the numbers represent at the bottom of each of the groups of 10 spins?
ie. 9/10  7+2  11+1  23-1  29/60

Thank You.
-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 10, 11:52 AM 2016
Sure
Have you looked in Jackpot joy average doc. Cell AI 68 shows the avg in spins 11-40, 30 spins.15.70212766 nonhit.

So the 1st 3 boxes of 4*10 cover spins 11-40, so each box of 10 could see 5 non hit. 5+5+5 = 15 in 30 spins like the avg in the doc shows.
On this game 9.2.16  the 1st 10 box spins 11-20 got 7 non hit 2 more than the avg of 5, so 7,+2
box covering spins 21-30 11+1, by spin 20 you could have 10 non hit, but we  see 11 have come, so 11+1.
Now this box covering spins 31-40 is where you see if 15 non hit  in 30 spins makes the avg,which we will get by adding the expected 15 non hit to the 1st 10 spins that show it got 9 non hit, so 9+15=24, this game got in spins 11-40 (30 spins) 14 non hit, so 23 -1.

Now we are getting really smart we keep records of games played so at the end of the 60 spins we can see in this game  it had 29 non hit,hit in 60 spins.
8.2.16 got 32/60
7.2.16 got 33/60
6.2.16 not enough spins
4.2.16 got 31/60
3.2.16       29/60
2.1.16       29/60
1.2.16       32/60
31.1.16      29/60
27.1.16      29/60    if you add these up and divide  avg for 60 spins 30.5 non hit.

All good info for watching the trot
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 10, 12:09 PM 2016
-notto

That explains a lot.

By the way still doing great with KTF and Don't Knock It
Still not using any other systems or MM methods.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Am up over $600 so far in less than two weeks.

The other day I was at the B&M and was not doing so well.
Around spin 40 I managed to get back to -$8
At that point I quit because I had been there over an hour and it always seems that the system either kicks in and pays off in the first 20-30 spins or else the progression is up and down all the time.
Besides being a hit and run player I do not chase losses.

Thank you again.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 10, 08:45 PM 2016
Went to the casino again today and played KTF.

Between this and Dont Knock It on DD I think the roulette gods were transpiring against me today.

On my 5th spin I was up $34 and was considering quitting right then.
I always preach hit and run if you have won 5 or 6 of the first few spins.
Come on the rolette gods told me you have just started and there has only been 1 repeat.
So on I went.

The gods rewarded me with two repeats in a row and I was down to -$35 right after taunting me to continue.
Nice I thought....the lying bastards were'nt trying to help me after all.

So I continued and 4 spins later I was back to +32 and what did I do................that's right I listened to that little voice again and still continued.
What the hell was I thinking.

Anyways I played two more spins and quit with +$44.

I am not sure if there is a moral here or not.
Maybe......."Do not bet money in a casino if you hear little voices in your head" ;D

I have attached the chart for this fiasco.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 11, 03:08 AM 2016
Hi Celts
1st 10 is 10/10, so expect 15 non hits in spins 11-40.
So you can see i've added countback from 39/40 spins, will help with watching the trot, the other trot to think about is the profit, watch see if its going up/down, remember the high.
Now spin 11, is the 11th non hit,on time. Spin 12,12th non hit(remember topic 12 unique, well here they are, so fast trot,no repeats).
Could say 12th non hit is just   a little early, so got to think repeat is not far away.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 11, 03:17 AM 2016
Oh dear repeat. So now we're going to KTF.
Up to 2 units, win.
So your high was +17, now back to +11.
Again looking at count back 13non hit is just early.

So should you sit it out and see what the trot is going to look like, I/we cant look into the future,but we can wait,if your on touch screen.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 11, 03:25 AM 2016
You keep talking about those 15 non hit and 15 hit between spin 11-40....

This is on average right? How many sessions you saw it was not like that?

I simply ask cuz I've got 2 busts now. So if we play virtual. .....track 10 spins...then wait for a clustered non hit or hit ....then go in for the opposite side.

Wouldn't that work and be safer?

(Just thinking out loud )
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 11, 03:41 AM 2016
So if you've played next 2 spins your +34. As this is 00 wheel and as said with Wiggy better to take or as near to $40/+40.
Now look at count back its showing the 15th non hit is early, you've only had 1 repeat, so if like me i would have sat out those 2 spins. Now i'd bet for the repeat, remember i've sat out at +11, win, +32.


Thats todays lesson.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 11, 04:06 AM 2016
You keep talking about those 15 non hit and 15 hit between spin 11-40....

This is on average right? How many sessions you saw it was not like that?

I simply ask cuz I've got 2 busts now. So if we play virtual. .....track 10 spins...then wait for a clustered non hit or hit ....then go in for the opposite side.

Wouldn't that work and be safer?

(Just thinking out loud )
If you look at Jackpot joy average doc, you'll see in cell AI 68 15.70833333 this is spins 11-40. Its pretty constant. Of the 48 games i post KTF on, which is Jackpot247.com, theres only been 9 games where it does not get the 15 non hit in spins 11-40, those 9 games mean repeats

 then wait for a clustered non hit or hit ....then go in for the opposite side This is watching the trot, like in Celts game, i would have gone for the repeat.
Wouldn't that work and be safer?  Watching the trot, After 1st 10 spins you know how many non hit to bet, so you do not need to bet, better to watch the trot, see how the trot is looking .Like in celts game we can see the non hits are fast, so a repeat is dare i say it due.
Remember its all abot 0X's then 1X's and then >1x's, thats all there is to roulette, So like the Guvnor Winkel says Watch the trot.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 11, 04:22 AM 2016
Ok watch the trot....
I'll check first 10 spins...
Then I wait a few clustered dominant side (non hit or repeats)
Now it's time to go in ......

I'll report back on this.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 11, 04:25 AM 2016
due.


Notto. ......get ready mate......they coming at you soon... :xd:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 11, 06:22 AM 2016
Just tried online my State’s Lottery Multiwheelx8 RNG: BR 500

Code: [Select]
- 20  25  16  20  31  36  14  21  5  15 - 
            13  23  18  28 - 537
- 12  12  13  33  22  15  20  4   33  35 -
   25  2  2  29  7  24  19 - 576
- 0  29  6  15  33  27  29  10  33  24 -
  28  32  3  20 - 610
- 5  3  33  0  16  26  14  32  11  27 -
  9  29  5  30  33  6  33  14  31  34  27  25  29  29  22  24  33  19  11  14  27  26  25 - Game Over
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 11, 09:25 AM 2016
+£34

Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)			
0 37
1 34 36
2 27 35
3 24 34
4 26 33
5 36 32
6 6 31
7 1 30
8 15 29
9 18 28 stake
10 3 27 non-hit return
11 10 26 1 27 36 9
12 4 25 1 26 36 19
13 9 24 1 25 36 30 Remember this amount
14 9 r 1 24 0 6
15 24 r 2 48 0 -42
16 16 23 3 72 108 -6
17 7 22 2 46 72 20 here -10 on pre-vio us high
18 34 r 1 22 0 -2
19 24 r 2 44 0 -46
20 8 21 3 66 108 -4
21 15 r 2 42 0 -46
22 0 20 3 63 108 -1
23 3 r 2 40 0 -41
24 23 19 3 60 108 7
25 0 r 2 38 0 -31
26 23 r 3 57 0 -88
27 28 18 4 76 144 -20
28 5 17 3 54 108 34 so new high stop
29 5 r 2 34 0 0
30 27 r 3 51 0 -51
31 33 16 4 68 144 25
32 26 r 3 48 0 -23
33 20 15 4 64 144 57 stop, stop
34 32 14 3 45 108 120
35 29 13
36 3 r
37 13 12
38 25 11
39 19 10
40 35 9
41 13 r
42 2 8
43 0 r
44 36 r
45 25 r
46 9 r
47 30 7
48 1 r
49 22 6
50 4 r
51 13 r
52 31 5
53 26 r
54 23 r
55 20 r
56 13 r
57 31 r
58 0 r
59 9 r
60 19 r 32/60
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 11, 12:58 PM 2016
+£34

Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)			
0 37
1 34 36
2 27 35
3 24 34
4 26 33
5 36 32
6 6 31
7 1 30
8 15 29
9 18 28 stake
10 3 27 non-hit return
11 10 26 1 27 36 9
12 4 25 1 26 36 19
13 9 24 1 25 36 30 Remember this amount
14 9 r 1 24 0 6
15 24 r 2 48 0 -42
16 16 23 3 72 108 -6
17 7 22 2 46 72 20 here -10 on pre-vio us high
18 34 r 1 22 0 -2
19 24 r 2 44 0 -46
20 8 21 3 66 108 -4
21 15 r 2 42 0 -46
22 0 20 3 63 108 -1
23 3 r 2 40 0 -41
24 23 19 3 60 108 7
25 0 r 2 38 0 -31
26 23 r 3 57 0 -88
27 28 18 4 76 144 -20
28 5 17 3 54 108 34 so new high stop
29 5 r 2 34 0 0
30 27 r 3 51 0 -51
31 33 16 4 68 144 25
32 26 r 3 48 0 -23
33 20 15 4 64 144 57 stop, stop
34 32 14 3 45 108 120
35 29 13
36 3 r
37 13 12
38 25 11
39 19 10
40 35 9
41 13 r
42 2 8
43 0 r
44 36 r
45 25 r
46 9 r
47 30 7
48 1 r
49 22 6
50 4 r
51 13 r
52 31 5
53 26 r
54 23 r
55 20 r
56 13 r
57 31 r
58 0 r
59 9 r
60 19 r 32/60


-notto

I would have considered quitting at spin 13 but definitely would have quit at spin 17 with only two repeats in the last 17.

Because of quitting KTF after only 3 or 7 spins I would have then swithched over to playing Dont Knock It for the next 1/2 hour or so.

All the small wins do add up.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 11, 02:26 PM 2016

-notto

I would have considered quitting at spin 13 but definitely would have quit at spin 17 with only two repeats in the last 17.

Because of quitting KTF after only 3 or 7 spins I would have then swithched over to playing Dont Knock It for the next 1/2 hour or so.

All the small wins do add up.

-Celtic


Strange I tried to edit my original post and was unable to do so.
Maybe Steve has changed that option.

Anyways, I ran the numbers and switching over to Dont Knock, as suggested above, I would have won another $15 quite easily and I would have still been out of the casino in under an hour.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 12, 01:00 AM 2016
Now just compare, Jackpot 247.com and yesterdays RNG

See spins11-20 7+2 on both. Spins 21-30 RNG +2, Jack247  +3

This why i stop at +38 on jackpot, just like on the RNG, have you learnt from 12 unique in Xspins how often those 1st 12 unique hit, lesson learnt for me.
Look at spins 21-23, same, look how early the 19th non hit is on both, so watch the trot.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 13, 05:08 AM 2016
KTF +£47
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 13, 07:06 AM 2016
should read 27/52,oops, but the avg is 30.5 in 60 spins, wonder if there had been more spins, would we get 3 more non hit in 8 spins?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 14, 04:52 AM 2016
KTF +45  #33
Day 50, 1 loss betting at the start a large number of pockets
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 14, 06:33 AM 2016
Look at those wins on your daily file  :love:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 14, 11:15 AM 2016
Look at those wins on your daily file  :love:

Yep and his daily wins sheet is impressive too.

I have always said that the main thing to stress with KTF is knowing when to start your betting sequence.

Jumping around from method to method does not help your decisions.

I am still happy with KTF and Dont Knock It and have no intensions of trying anything else until they let me down which I do not see happening.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 14, 11:42 AM 2016
.... Dont Knock It and have no intensions of trying anything else until they let me down which I do not see happening.

How you play Dont Knock?
I tried it on some spins, but am not getting positive results...
Maybe some tips...

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 14, 12:04 PM 2016
How you play Dont Knock?
I tried it on some spins, but am not getting positive results...
Maybe some tips...

Thanks

Check the Dont Knock It topic.
There is a thread dedicated to it.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 14, 01:16 PM 2016
So you just follow the rules?
No tweaks?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 14, 07:55 PM 2016
So you just follow the rules?
No tweaks?

That's it.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 15, 06:48 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 15.2.16   KTF +£50

If only the RNG machine of death played like this every day.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 15, 07:04 AM 2016
23*32*13

Now, we know and understand your sheet, except this mystic numbers...?

Thanks Notti!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 15, 07:08 AM 2016
Hey Notto,

I'm doing the new approach now. So far very good results.  Max bet so far is 3 units.

On my way to recover those 2 busts.

Thx mate , your effort is very much appreciated  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 15, 08:49 AM 2016
23*32*13

Now, we know and understand your sheet, except this mystic numbers...?

Thanks Notti!

There was another 10 numbers,but didn't want to start a new sheet. The #'s 31,5,0,23,0,30,9,5,32,21

So the 23 is the 32nd non hit, took 13 spins. You could have been betting 6 #'s for 13 spins.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 15, 08:51 AM 2016
Hey Notto,

I'm doing the new approach now. So far very good results.  Max bet so far is 3 units.

On my way to recover those 2 busts.

Thx mate , your effort is very much appreciated  :thumbsup:
Hey Denzie, the new approach I don't seem to find it. Can you explain it a little simple? Or Notto maybe?

Hope you recover the 2 busts!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 15, 08:58 AM 2016
Hey Denzie, the new approach I don't seem to find it. Can you explain it a little simple? Or Notto maybe?

Hope you recover the 2 busts!

As always we wait our first 10 spins. But instead of starting to bet after that....I wait another 5 spins. If in those 5 spins I get :
4-5 repeaters then I bet the Unhit
4-5 unhitters then I bet the repeaters
If it's going side by side then I keep looking the trot till it's clear when the crossing should come.

Is it luck? No idea, I'll keep going till I know.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 15, 09:18 AM 2016
As always we wait our first 10 spins. But instead of starting to bet after that....I wait another 5 spins. If in those 5 spins I get :
4-5 repeaters then I bet the Unhit
4-5 unhitters then I bet the repeaters
If it's going side by side then I keep looking the trot till it's clear when the crossing should come.

Is it luck? No idea, I'll keep going till I know.
Ok thanks. Really interesting aproach.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 15, 09:19 AM 2016
Thanks Notty!

I have make an observation which I think might be important, also:

- We are expecting 15 in 30 spins (11-40), so you marked 10's columns with 5+5+5
- In first 10 spins we get 9 numbers on the average, so I don't think it will "slow down" abruptly (from 9 till 5  >:D), but rather gradually

So I would go with 6+5+4 =15 which would make 9+6+5+4, or even 7+5+3 = 15 which would make nice 9+7+5+3 =24 in first 4x10's!

What do you think, Guvnor?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 15, 09:29 AM 2016
Wow from the past
Main Roulette Board / Re: Have I figured something new out about roulette?
« on: March 05, 2014, 07:38:35 PM »
Wyldegibson.
 No need to be sorry as any idea is worth seeing, you never know,the math people might have given you the answer you were looking for,the H.G.
 The old Ausguy was liking it for a while, and he's not a bad old guy,lol RNGGGGGGGGGGG.

Here's some rng from today in ladbrokes. I'll place them in blocks of ten. Won £51.00 on repeats and new numbers to come.
11,17,12,26,25,30,19,24,10,4

16,23,29,21,30,21,13,14,11,23

24,1,11,1,28,32,22,29,10,32

30,23,3,11,25,34,32,33,0,16

28,35,13,31,0,10,26,26,3,3

34,24,22,30,5,23,17,14,31,9

28,9,4,21,24,0,4,28,31,12

0,14,34,32,23,29,26,19,8

 But really forget all the outside bets, the casino loves people playing them. Remember when column3 is missing for 30 odd spins and black hitting for say 24 spins, its BOOM

Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 11 36
2 17 35
3 12 34
4 26 33
5 25 32
6 30 31
7 19 30
8 24 29
9 10 28 stake
10 4 27 non-hit return
11 16 26 1 27 36 9
12 23 25 1 26 36 19
13 29 24 1 25 36 30
14 21 23 1 24 36 42

Not quite KTF but i'm on its case, but it would be +42 and go
Earlier post above for betting for a repeat. Below is todays #'s for Jackpot247.com, where whilst watching the spins/trot, you watch the previous 10 spins, m=miss, so wait 5 spins if no repeat, start to bet those previous numbers in the 10 spins. so 1st 10 spins are watched, 5 m, so bet those 9 #'s, 3 spins win.
Code: [Select]
30		6	m	27	m	20	m	20	r	21	m	31	m
29 25 m 5 m 12 r 32 14 m 5 m
7 31 m 7 m 14 3 25 m 0 m
24 35 m 6 r 36 8 9 r 23 m
34 1 m 34 36 33 7 0 m
24 12 9 16 19 27 30 30 8w
22 9 9 8 18 15 27 9
8 8 9w 0 12 33 3 5
10 16 12 8 9 14 32
36 9 35 11 28 3 21
(9/10)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 15, 12:06 PM 2016
Thanks Notty!

I have make an observation which I think might be important, also:

- We are expecting 15 in 30 spins (11-40), so you marked 10's columns with 5+5+5
- In first 10 spins we get 9 numbers on the average, so I don't think it will "slow down" abruptly (from 9 till 5  >:D), but rather gradually

So I would go with 6+5+4 =15 which would make 9+6+5+4, or even 7+5+3 = 15 which would make nice 9+7+5+3 =24 in first 4x10's!

What do you think, Guvnor?
Our 1st 10 spins are 9.  9+15=24, so the expected amount of non hit at spin 40 is 24.
spins 11-20 got 8 non hit, so +3 if we split the 3 boxes of 10's to 5,5,5
spins 21-30 got 3 non hit, so +1,   5+5=10  we've had 11non hit +1
spins 31-40 got 5 non hit, so now 11+5= 16   so +1.

Now you mentioned 7,5,3   7 in spins11-20,  5 in spins in 21-30  and 3 in spins 31-40.
If you was to find the avg for non hit in spins 11-20, which i have done yes  its 7 then 5 and last 3. To me its to neat, why is it not 8,4,3. But look at todays sheet
8+3     Now avg 7 non hit  in spins 11-20 is +1  so already the non hits are infront, so now we expect 5 in spins 21-30, but as its +1 should we not expect to see only 4 non hit, to keep to avg.

11+1   Well 2 non hit straight away and avg needs to get back on track so needs only 2 more non hit in 8 spins, So should you
           not expect to see the repeats making an appearence. Ends +1  so if avg is to be expected  aren't we now -1 as it
           should now be +2. So to good to be true 7,5,3 is behind, if we except Avg then we expect 4 more non hit to get to 15
           non hit in 30 spins.
25+1   We get 5 non hit so +1
What we are doing is using average to help watch the trot. At spin 22 you've had 19 non hit, only 3 repeats, so i'd guess if Densie has watched the trot he would be betting the already hit
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 15, 03:43 PM 2016
Notto or other rng players...

When you press the spin button without placing a bet...you think the outcome would be different then when we actually place a bet ?

Just curious. I was playing your ktf today and I won +80 units. But of course I keep clicking to see what would happen.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 15, 06:49 PM 2016
Here are todays results of using a GUT trigger with KTF

Goal:
BR $100
Win five times.

I had $76 in profit in 9 spins and quit but did stick around to get a total of 40 spins on the sheet.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Wally Gator on Feb 15, 08:01 PM 2016
Celtic: are those 00 (double zero) for the 3rd number in the 1st column and 5th number in the 2nd column?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 15, 09:58 PM 2016
Celtic: are those 00 (double zero) for the 3rd number in the 1st column and 5th number in the 2nd column?

-Wally

Yes they are. I only have access to an american wheel when playing live in my local B&M casino.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 16, 04:07 AM 2016
When you press the spin button without placing a bet...you think the outcome would be different then when we actually place a bet ?

That would be believing in conspiracy theory...
I don't think they go so far....
It's also easy to check online when two players are playing on the same wheel (from different accounts, ofc.)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 16, 04:47 AM 2016
That would be believing in conspiracy theory...
I don't think they go so far....

Your probably right. It just feels bit weird depending on software. But the casino makes enough profit already so they don't need to cheat.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 16, 04:58 AM 2016
It can be different when you have to install Software on your comp to play (as I have to :().
Online you have up to 100 players on the same RNG wheel, so it is easy to check numbers with others.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 16, 05:21 AM 2016
It can be different when you have to install Software on your comp to play (as I have to :().
Online you have up to 100 players on the same RNG wheel, so it is easy to check numbers with others.

Those are the multiple player tables? How much time to place your bets?

If I play rng I always use the private sessions. There I can click as much and as fast as needed. With ktf I got some probs getting the bets down on time under 20 seconds.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 16, 05:32 AM 2016
On William Hill there are RNGs which are the same for everyone who log-in.
Very short time to place bets - under 15 secs.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 16, 08:32 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 16.2.16  KTF +£59  #12

Yes getting the units on could be a problem, but i don't as i push the button. Only thing is the RNG definetly plays different to airball.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 16, 08:53 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 16.2.16  KTF +£59  #12

Only thing is the RNG definetly plays different to airball.

??
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 16, 09:07 AM 2016
Airball is supposedly classed a live spin, but in the bookies on the FOBT its RNG.

As RG called it the machine of death
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 16, 09:33 AM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 16 36
2 24 35
3 18 34
4 22 33
5 15 32
6 3 31
7 19 30
8 29 29
9 17 28 stake
10 7 27 non-hit return
11 24 r 1 27 0 -27
12 36 26 2 54 72 -9
13 25 25 1 26 36 1
14 24 r 1 25 0 -24
15 17 r 2 50 0 -74
16 20 24 3 75 108 -41
17 11 23 2 48 72 -17
18 28 22 1 23 36 -4
19 26 21 1 22 36 10
20 25 r 1 21 0 -11
21 15 r 2 42 0 -53
22 35 20 3 63 108 -8
23 34 19 2 40 72 24
24 14 18 1 19 36 41
25 12 17 1 18 36 59
26 24 r 59
27 28 r 59
28 0 16 59
29 16 59
30 24 59
31 28 59
32 21 59
33 25 59
34 6 59
35 35 59
36 36 59
37 8 59
38 24 59
39 11 59
40 14 59
41 24 59
42 27 59
43 25 59
44 32 59
45 6 59
46 12 59
47 14 59
48 8 59
49 23 59
50 12 59
51 20 59
52 32 59
53 17 59
54 31 59
55 3 59
56 20 59
57 35 59
58 8 59
59 8 59
60 3 59

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 16, 09:43 AM 2016
still using +1/-1

slower +1/-1             old+1/-1  using todays #'s

1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 3
2                                 2
1                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 3
2                                 2
1                                 1
                                   1
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 16, 10:03 AM 2016
Notto, was just wondering. ...

On 100 sessions.  Where we track the first 10 spins.....how many of those we get a repeat in our first 10 tracking spins?

I ask cuz mostly I get 1 or 2 repeaters.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 16, 10:08 AM 2016
The KTF results are kept in the Jackpot joy average doc.
Theres more games with 9/10 then 8/10 and only just behind is 10/10
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 16, 10:18 AM 2016
On a old average doc with 879 RNG games it goes like this for 10 spins
10/10  249
09/10  367
08/10  199
07/10  059
06/10  003
05/10  002

Jackpot 247 has not had any game lower than 8/10.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 16, 10:41 AM 2016
I was thinking of start betting straight off for a repeat. If we don't got a hit then we are -45. Which could be recovered by the real ktf.

If we win on spin 2 = + 35
spin 3 = + 33
Spin 4 = + 30
Spin 5 = + 26
Spin 6 = + 21
Spin 7 = + 15
Spin 8 = + 8
Spin 9 = +0
Spin 10 = - 9

Just thinking out loud here :P
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 16, 11:29 AM 2016
Denzie
You would need to win by sixth spin as jackpot247 has had 54 games and lost 13 to 10/10.
13*55=715
If we divide 715 by 41 winning games 715/41=17.43 round it up to £18.00
Sixth spin wins +21
Possibly better to go for the repeat after 5th spin as Jimmie B suggested
up to date avg doc
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 16, 11:52 AM 2016
Isn't it 45 x 13 = 585 /41 = 14,26
As we don't bet first spin

But it was just a thought. Let's leave it at your way  ;D
Sometimes thinking out loud helps
Thx again.  I'm gonna play it daily gut/ktf  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 16, 12:55 PM 2016
still using +1/-1

slower +1/-1             old+1/-1  using todays #'s

1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 3
2                                 2
1                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 3
2                                 2
1                                 1
                                   1

-notto

I have not played with anything but +1/-1 but have wondered about trying different progressions.

I am doing quite well betting +1/-1 so why change until the need arises?
Must be human nature......It isn't broken but let's try and fix it anyways.  :lol:

I am only looking for a maximum of 5 wins in a session and usually quit before that ie. if I hit three numbers in a row I'm finished.

One question I would like to ask is what would be the maximum number of progressions you would go to?

Anyways, as always, you have given us food for thought.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 16, 09:52 PM 2016
Attached is my sheet for live play at Georgian Downs today.
Sorry for the mess.

This was the ultimate hit and run day.
3 spins win $51 and quit in under 10 minutes.

There is one thing to note on this sheet:
Look at the progression drop between spins 47 and 48
This was because after spin #47 the balance was back to a new high.
This same thing appears between spins 55 and 56.

-Celtic


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 17, 06:14 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  17.2.16   KTF  +£45  #13
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 17, 06:58 AM 2016
It's bit strange not more members try it or post here. This has really good results. It's first strategy that I ever played that's so fast and fun.

Maybe cuz it's RNG ? It feels bit uncomfortable to me also but hey...I'm winning

Maybe cuz they don't understand your
sheet?

Anyway good job guvnor  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 17, 09:15 AM 2016
It's bit strange not more members try it or post here. This has really good results. It's first strategy that I ever played that's so fast and fun.

Maybe cuz it's RNG ? It feels bit uncomfortable to me also but hey...I'm winning

Maybe cuz they don't understand your
sheet?

Anyway good job guvnor  :thumbsup:

I agree wholeheartedly.

If not for notto and Winkel's GUT I would have probably given up roulette with it's +5% HE on the American Wheel and gone back to Blackjack with <1% HE.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 18, 08:53 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com  18.2.16   KTF  +56 #36

On the sheet you can see extra spins, the show aired nearly 3 hrs, usually we only get 60 spins if lucky.
But as you can see by Keeping the Faith it gets to +56.
Those early repeats can be killers.

In the game with the extra spins,you can see why i say as soon as you get the win you want, go to another table, be in/on a completely new wheel with a new 37 numbers DUE.  Look at how many repeats, 5, the expected 5, but as they hit in a block those repeats make it hard to keep the prog low.
Think about it 27 numbers is 1/3 on/or there abouts, Dont the horses lose at these prices.

So move to another wheel avoid those extra spins,   You could still get the same sort of game on the new wheel, but you are now trot watchers
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 18, 10:57 AM 2016
Hey Notto,

I'm playing this on a daily basis. And this is truly a gift from heaven. Thx thx thx  :thumbsup:

I keep all my sheets just as you do. After each session I evaluate how to play best.
Right now the safest is to get a few repeaters after our 10 spins. Those are so easy . But on the other hand going in for the unhit right away after our 10 spins didn't lose also. Just that it needs more progression. Anyway its all good and the br loves it.

My 2 earlier busts didn't count as I played them wrong. I realised that after look at them again. So my fault.

Sometimes I stop after 1 or 2 hits and reset it all. All up to my feeling.  Getting close to 1000 units mate  ;)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 18, 11:26 AM 2016
Hey guys. Are we doing +1 -1 ? Thx
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 18, 11:42 AM 2016
Hey Notto,

I'm playing this on a daily basis. And this is truly a gift from heaven. Thx thx thx  :thumbsup:

I keep all my sheets just as you do. After each session I evaluate how to play best.
Right now the safest is to get a few repeaters after our 10 spins. Those are so easy . But on the other hand going in for the unhit right away after our 10 spins didn't lose also. Just that it needs more progression. Anyway its all good and the br loves it.

My 2 earlier busts didn't count as I played them wrong. I realised that after look at them again. So my fault.

Sometimes I stop after 1 or 2 hits and reset it all. All up to my feeling.  Getting close to 1000 units mate  ;)


- Denzie

Just stick to the plan  and watch the trot.
I believe that I was overthinking this and using GUT but discovered it is not necessary to use GUT to start betting as much as it is necessary to understand GUT which helps you to understand and read the trot.

I think this is the first time I have seen resetting mentioned in this thread.
If the trot is not going well that is the only thing to do in my opinion.

It gets to the point where you begin to wonder if you will ever lose doesn't it?

This is the only way I am playing roulette now and I do not even check other methods out out.
I guess it depends on what you are gambling for in the first place.

Above you said you had been playing wrong and that is why you lost.
What were you doing wrong?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 18, 11:43 AM 2016
Hey guys. Are we doing +1 -1 ? Thx

Yep
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 18, 11:46 AM 2016
-notto

Were extra spins on todays sheet done right after the first 60?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: blueman on Feb 18, 11:51 AM 2016
Yep

C/P reply 9
When you lose, you bet +1=2 on all unhit numbers, if lose again, then +1=3 units on all unhit numbers .
On hit, you take of winning number and -1 on all unhit numbers.



Denzie, that's it? Easy to play.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 18, 11:55 AM 2016

- Denzie

Just stick to the plan  and watch the trot.
I believe that I was overthinking this and using GUT but discovered it is not necessary to use GUT to start betting as much as it is necessary to understand GUT which helps you to understand and read the trot.

I think this is the first time I have seen resetting mentioned in this thread.
If the trot is not going well that is the only thing to do in my opinion.

It gets to the point where you begin to wonder if you will ever lose doesn't it?

This is the only way I am playing roulette now and I do not even check other methods out out.
I guess it depends on what you are gambling for in the first place.

Above you said you had been playing wrong and that is why you lost.
What were you doing wrong?

-Celtic

Yeah my results are better without the gut involved. But the gut/ktf probably gonna get a bust faster. That's what my feeling tell me.
But your right as GUT let us see the trot better.

I'm sure it will lose sometimes...but the profits are way more then our losses. And not to forget it's fun and fast to play.

What I was doing wrong? Well it was the very first sessions I played this.  One bust happen cuz I mix unhit and repeated up. I didn't properly fill in my sheet. Stupid mistake. Second bust I noticed that if I click rebet...the unit size sometimes go back to 1. I mean I just lost putting 3u on each nr. Lose. Click rebet and only 1u was placed. By the time I noticed I couldn't get back to recover. It does that sometimes. No idea why. But I got my eyes on it now.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 18, 11:57 AM 2016
C/P reply 9
When you lose, you bet +1=2 on all unhit numbers, if lose again, then +1=3 units on all unhit numbers .
On hit, you take of winning number and -1 on all unhit numbers.



Denzie, that's it? Easy to play.


Yep
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 18, 12:08 PM 2016
Yeah my results are better without the gut involved. But the gut/ktf probably gonna get a bust faster. That's what my feeling tell me.
But your right as GUT let us see the trot better.

I'm sure it will lose sometimes...but the profits are way more then our losses. And not to forget it's fun and fast to play.

What I was doing wrong? Well it was the very first sessions I played this.  One bust happen cuz I mix unhit and repeated up. I didn't properly fill in my sheet. Stupid mistake. Second bust I noticed that if I click rebet...the unit size sometimes go back to 1. I mean I just lost putting 3u on each nr. Lose. Click rebet and only 1u was placed. By the time I noticed I couldn't get back to recover. It does that sometimes. No idea why. But I got my eyes on it now.

The main reason I used GUT was the lower betting amounts .ie 17 instead of 29 units when you start to betting and when you do hit your profits for that round are higher. Then again there are also 12 less numbers to hit. There again this was overthinking on my part and not really necessary.

Your statement that wins are more than losses is so true.
Do you set a stop loss? If so what is it?

Have a good day.
-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 18, 12:14 PM 2016
Around 400 .... you never know the rfh is there. If it isn't fixed by then...give that session to the casino.

Don't forget the casino has 2 mighty weapons. The house edge. Very dangerous.
And the weak human mind. If you not control yourself and keep going you can lose all your profit in 1 fast session.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 18, 12:23 PM 2016
-notto

Were extra spins on todays sheet done right after the first 60?

-Celtic

Yes, got 81 spins today. So i carried on the next game down, just to use the spins, like i say as soon as you've made your amount, go to another wheel, the 21 numbers show its better to jump go to another table, or wait till all 37 numbers have been hit. Personally i'd go to another machine in another shop. If i stay on the same machine it always plays different,remember i'm on RNG when playing. I'm only recording Jackpot247.com for the numbers as its on after midnight and need to sleep for work, you bet if i sign up it would be the night it wont win.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 18, 01:12 PM 2016
... you bet if i sign up it would be the night it wont win.

I'm sure you'll win. Wanna bet?  ;)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 18, 01:30 PM 2016
Now i've bought Jackpot joy avg doc up todate.
Why is the Avg doc so useful,
1 it gives the avg for non hit to come in
2 it shows max spin for the non hit to come in.
3 This is your part, how you bet.

What about, you do the waiting game, you just watch how the non hit repeat.    So to day 11th spin 10th non hit, now your just watching,playing GUT really, now next spin repeat, next spin repeat.
What does avg doc say for the 11th non hit. Yesterday max 3 spins, avg to hit 1.392,(2), so now a decision,its missed the avg 2, its max is 3, so if you bet you lose today, but the bet is not over you can increase the units, in the betting shop i could increase the unit to 4, and win.
But tomorrow you have to remember its max is now 4 spins.

Its just nice to know non hits avg and max.
Another example of the waiting game i'd hope not to be betting in spins 51-70 i'd like to have made the units and be in another shop.
The 30th non hit is in at spin 50. Now what is max for the 31st non hit, 13 yesterday, avg 4.185 (5) spins. Now your watching, 5 spins come and its not in, we know the max and avg, so its missed its avg, so now its will the max increase? Now on RNG i can bet those 7 non hit for 20 spins, depending on where your playing, how does the increment of chips work, with 5 spins gone a possible 8 more spins, so do you bet or wait some more.

Well it took 13 spins, its max in the doc.

Its just another way to watch the game.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 18, 01:43 PM 2016
Why build an avg doc it helps me with KTF and the trot. I can't wait to get to 100 games, why

Well the average over the 100 cells is a static average calculated at a single entry point (the end of the data run in this case) whereas an average taken after collection of 100+1 cells and recalculate the average after dropping the very first cell is a dynamic average function of your cells, and show better and clearer the distribution movement of the data.
Very different results  :wink:

The paragraph above is from Chrisbis, thanks.
So i'll keep on building past the 100 games,but also just have a changing 100 games, and then compare the 2.
Will the avg change much,i dont know, but he who waits.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 18, 08:04 PM 2016
im going through zumma checkin out those "repeaters"

the more i see this the more i see KTF works well also

wait for 10 hits, bet the other 26 numbers with a +1 -1

only way to really lose big is if its repeater after repeater, which doesnt happen either

good work man

i see absolutely no reason why this method is not good to have in the arsenal

as Tamino says, if u want to dance you have to pay the fiddler
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 19, 05:14 AM 2016
jackpotjoy 247.com  KTF +29 #9

Thought i'd show the sheet today as when recording the spins to the sheet,like denzie could see that this was going to be a hard win.
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 27 36
2 17 35
3 17 r
4 5 34
5 25 33
6 13 32
7 1 31
8 13 r
9 33 30 stake
10 15 29 non-hit return
11 33 r 1 29 0 -29
12 16 28 2 58 72 -15
13 7 27 1 28 36 -7
14 22 26 1 27 36 2
15 25 r 1 26 0 -24
16 8 25 2 52 72 -4
17 24 24 1 25 36 7
18 17 r 1 24 0 -17
19 35 23 2 48 72 7
20 5 r 1 23 0 -16
21 25 r 2 46 0 -62
22 5 r 3 69 0 -131
23 0 22 4 92 144 -79
24 16 r 3 66 0 -145
25 34 21 4 88 144 -89
26 15 r 3 63 0 -152
27 33 r 4 84 0 -236
28 28 20 5 105 180 -161
29 2 19 4 80 144 -97
30 6 18 3 57 108 -46
31 34 r 2 36 0 -82
32 7 r 3 54 0 -136
33 13 r 4 72 0 -208
34 3 17 5 90 180 -118
35 15 r 4 68 0 -186
36 31 16 5 85 180 -91
37 0 r 4 64 0 -155
38 11 15 5 80 180 -55
39 9 14 4 60 144 29
40 35 r 3 42 0 -13
41 18 13 4 56 144 75
42 25 r 3
43 26 12 4
44 28 r 3
45 25 r 4
46 29 11 5
47 32 10 4
48 13
49 3
50 27
51 7
52 1
53 7
54 29
55 14
56 5
57 1
58 30
59 32
60 32

61 18
62 10
63 22
64 34
65 31
66 20
67 8

We see its 8/10  so we expect at spin 40 to see 23 non hit have come, the avg, the avg doc, says, 15 in 30 spins, spins 11-40.
Its a repeat, happens but +1, now 2units win. Another 2 wins +2, so we KTF.
Watching the trot and the profit trot at spin 19 we are back to the previous high, i would stop and go to another table/shop, no damage done.
But if you KTF what happens, a rollercoaster ride, look at the prog 3,4,3,4,3,4,5, be better if was 1,2,1,2 that block of repeat is the problem,spin 30 has KTF -46, could walk here only yesterdays winnings gone.

But we want to see KTF,spin 30 is 19 non hit so 4 more needed for the 15 in 30, look at the prog again its like earlier 5,4,5,4, another block of repeats, we've only had a block fo 3 nonhit spins spins 28,29,30.
Spin 31 place 2 units if it had won be nice back to 1 unit, but another block of repeats, you had your chance to be on another wheel, so spin34 is 20th non hit, 3 more in 6 spins for the 15 non hit, well spin 39 has the 23rd non hit the 15, its also +29, STOP.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 19, 05:28 AM 2016
Hey Notto ,

For me it would be not to bad. I love to see a repeater after our 10 spins. Then I got 3 wins so I probably leave . If for some reason I don't leave. Then I got a repeater again.  Followed by 2 unhits..there I'm really sure I would leave. If I'm around +30 I mostly stop. But I finish each game virtually to see what would happen.

This would be a stressful session though if you kept going.  But no harm in losing a few units though. Can't win them all. Or can we ?

 :)

Also we get profit and then dd...again and again.  I would take the little profit at some point and stop. Then think damn that was a hard session but hey ...we made it
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 19, 10:01 AM 2016
Question for all testers. ...

We know on average we get 15/15.
Did someone got more repeaters then unhitters?  I didn't so far.
I'm just curious
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 19, 10:58 AM 2016
We know on average we get 15/15.

 :question:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 19, 12:00 PM 2016
Question for all testers. ...

We know on average we get 15/15.
Did someone got more repeaters then unhitters?  I didn't so far.
I'm just curious


Yes, several times, but fortunately it was after I had stopped betting and was just collecting additional numbers for reference and study at home later.

Take a look at nottos numbers for today. The 50-60 column would be a killer if you were betting but there again watching the trot it is warning you before hand that something is coming.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: bbb128 on Feb 19, 12:15 PM 2016
Now i was a naughty boy at school, when at school,so you will understand i missed out the maths.
With my cse in maths, not O level or A level, so when a math guy throws Z score, what does it mean.

Am i going to sit in the betting shop playing on the machine of death working out Z scores, come on, Roulette is a game of chance.

To me i want something that is simple, not working out formulas, i'll bliss fully play the non hit of the wheel, start with 37, after 10 spins away goes nottop hammer betting the remaining non hit, 5 some times 12 spins later out the door +50 or as near to the +50

 :thumbsup: LOL Bro .. from SG? playing at RWS or MBS?
i am playing a method that is almost smiliar
i wait for  numbers not to repeat before i start betting on the numbers to repeat
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 19, 01:21 PM 2016
jackpotjoy 247.com  KTF +29 #9

Thought i'd show the sheet today as when recording the spins to the sheet,like denzie could see that this was going to be a hard win.
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 27 36
2 17 35
3 17 r
4 5 34
5 25 33
6 13 32
7 1 31
8 13 r
9 33 30 stake
10 15 29 non-hit return
11 33 r 1 29 0 -29
12 16 28 2 58 72 -15
13 7 27 1 28 36 -7
14 22 26 1 27 36 2
15 25 r 1 26 0 -24
16 8 25 2 52 72 -4
17 24 24 1 25 36 7
18 17 r 1 24 0 -17
19 35 23 2 48 72 7
20 5 r 1 23 0 -16
21 25 r 2 46 0 -62
22 5 r 3 69 0 -131
23 0 22 4 92 144 -79
24 16 r 3 66 0 -145
25 34 21 4 88 144 -89
26 15 r 3 63 0 -152
27 33 r 4 84 0 -236
28 28 20 5 105 180 -161
29 2 19 4 80 144 -97
30 6 18 3 57 108 -46
31 34 r 2 36 0 -82
32 7 r 3 54 0 -136
33 13 r 4 72 0 -208
34 3 17 5 90 180 -118
35 15 r 4 68 0 -186
36 31 16 5 85 180 -91
37 0 r 4 64 0 -155
38 11 15 5 80 180 -55
39 9 14 4 60 144 29
40 35 r 3 42 0 -13
41 18 13 4 56 144 75
42 25 r 3
43 26 12 4
44 28 r 3
45 25 r 4
46 29 11 5
47 32 10 4
48 13
49 3
50 27
51 7
52 1
53 7
54 29
55 14
56 5
57 1
58 30
59 32
60 32

61 18
62 10
63 22
64 34
65 31
66 20
67 8

We see its 8/10  so we expect at spin 40 to see 23 non hit have come, the avg, the avg doc, says, 15 in 30 spins, spins 11-40.
Its a repeat, happens but +1, now 2units win. Another 2 wins +2, so we KTF.
Watching the trot and the profit trot at spin 19 we are back to the previous high, i would stop and go to another table/shop, no damage done.
But if you KTF what happens, a rollercoaster ride, look at the prog 3,4,3,4,3,4,5, be better if was 1,2,1,2 that block of repeat is the problem,spin 30 has KTF -46, could walk here only yesterdays winnings gone.

But we want to see KTF,spin 30 is 19 non hit so 4 more needed for the 15 in 30, look at the prog again its like earlier 5,4,5,4, another block of repeats, we've only had a block fo 3 nonhit spins spins 28,29,30.
Spin 31 place 2 units if it had won be nice back to 1 unit, but another block of repeats, you had your chance to be on another wheel, so spin34 is 20th non hit, 3 more in 6 spins for the 15 non hit, well spin 39 has the 23rd non hit the 15, its also +29, STOP.


WOW we have not seen a tough on like this in a while but it is still doable.
You may not win much but you at least you did not bust out.

Look at the count summation after 20 betting spins----- 11+1
You'd have to be nuts to continue betting past that point.

I think todays numbers definitely illustrate the importance of following the trot.

For those trying to follow this thread and having trouble understanding it I would have to say that you need to read the thread from page one and also check out the Jackpot Joy and GUT threads.
With this knowledge you will not need any tweaks and when I thought I had a tweak it almost cost me $450.
The only thing that saved me was the fact that I actually started betting at the wrong point. -Remember that Denzie?---
I learned my lesson.

So, remember:

-No tweaks unless approved by the great and powerfull notto-


KTF has a steep learning curve but if you stick with it you will not be sorry.

Good luck
-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Feb 19, 06:27 PM 2016
Hi guys
Love the forum.
I've just started testing KTF.
First game plus 50u. Spin 18.
Question.
For obvious betting reasons I'm using a roulette table (BVs own) so theirs no time limit. Once I've finished the game surely I can just reset, close down etc and restart a new game. Fresh numbers etc.
I've no experience with this type of table.
I'm normally using live dealers etc though using this method it's not possible for me.
I've always been uneasy playing on computer spun table's.

Thanks again every one for a great forum.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 19, 07:59 PM 2016

Question.
For obvious betting reasons I'm using a roulette table (BVs own) so theirs no time limit. Once I've finished the game surely I can just reset, close down etc and restart a new game. Fresh numbers etc.

Good Day Spartan,

On several occasions what I have done is after quitting one session just use the last 10 numbers spun as your first ten new spins and start again.
Worked for me but as a hit and run player I do not do this often as I like to come in, study the marquee numbers, start betting and be off the table in approx. 1/2 hour.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 19, 08:06 PM 2016
i tried this on sun palace rng fun money.....it came out positive at the end but i did not have the warm fuzzy feeling

im afraid that those of us in the US facing side do not have a good rng option

one: our government wont allow online gaming except for NJ and Nevada
two: the casinos willing to give us RNG i do not know if the rng is fair and random

can the casinos manipulate the rng software?

no good feeling here
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 19, 08:18 PM 2016
i tried this on sun palace rng fun money.....it came out positive at the end but i did not have the warm fuzzy feeling


Was this Euro ar American wheel?
Are you able to upload the numbers?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 19, 08:28 PM 2016
euro rng

sun palace casino

part of mainstreet group

they are supposedly accredited..........wizard says nothing to fear

but i just dont get the warm fuzzy fairness feeling
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Proofreaders2000 on Feb 19, 09:22 PM 2016
...but i just don't get the warm fuzzy fairness feeling-RG

Stay away from Main Street Group casinos.

Sun Palace still owes me $29.20 from October 2015 :q

They told me they sent my winnings twice in the mail....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 19, 09:29 PM 2016
...but i just don't get the warm fuzzy fairness feeling-RG

Stay away from Main Street Group casinos.

Sun Palace still owes me $29.20 from October 2015 :q

They told me they sent my winnings twice in the mail....

Not surprised.

No good rng US facing id say.....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 20, 06:37 AM 2016
Myself I don't get that warm fuzzy feeling.
But I've been playing the ktf on rng daily now with amazing results. So my feeling getting better and better. But I not need it to be to warm....we need to stay focused so the rfh doesn't fool us. ;)

I don't go for +50 anymore. I just reset after a new high. Max progression I got is 3 u .
And after a new high I watch the trot. If I get a lot of repeaters. ...I go in again.

I don't get close to bust. As I said...if that rfh comes and you recover almost. ...just take the loss and reset.

Very very very solid method  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 20, 07:18 AM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)	
0 37
1 1 36
2 34 35
3 2 34
4 8 33
5 15 32
6 8 r
7 4 31
8 14 30
9 29 29 stake
10 2 r non-hit return
11 31 28 1 29 36 7
12 7 27 1 28 36 15
13 32 26 1 27 36 24
14 34 r 1 26 0 -2
15 33 25 2 52 72 18
16 24 24 1 25 36 29
17 7 r 1 24 0 5
18 15 r 2 48 0 -43
19 22 23 3 72 108 -7
20 34 r 2 46 0 -53
21 4 r 3 69 0 -122
22 0 22 4 92 144 -70
23 24 r 3 66 0 -136
24 35 21 4 88 144 -80
25 28 20 3 63 108 -35
26 7 r 2 40 0 -75
27 4 r 3 60 0 -135
28 23 19 4 80 144 -71
29 5 18 3 57 108 -20
30 25 17 2 36 72 16
31 34 r 1 17 0 -1
32 35 r 2 34 0 -35
33 23 r 3 51 0 -86
34 23 r 4 68 0 -154
35 22 r 5 85 0 -239
36 3 16 6 102 216 -125
37 17 15 5 80 180 -25
38 13 14 4 60 144 59 stop
39 15 r 3 59
40 21 13 4 59
41 0 r 3 59
42 31 r 4
43 27 12 5
44 7 r 4
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
Jackpot  247.com 20.02.16   KTF   +59   #13   the   15th   non hit.
Look at yesterday and today’s games, see how similar, and look at the progression.
At spin 16 you are +29 what we took yesterday as the trot was choppy, also you’ve had 5 non hit in 6 spins, count back shows the 13th non hit is early, so Like Winkel says  the decision is yours, me I’d stop betting and watch to see if there is repeats,
Now if you think there’s too many non-hit, you could bet the 13 one hit, if you did you’d be going to another table +52.
But we don’t  this is KTF, we have the faith, we now would have liked to taken that +29 it’s a choppy ride, at least we’re back in profit spin 30 +16.
Is it not better from experience to jump?
If there is a compulsive gambler in you, then you press on, you know there’s been 20 non-hit and expect another 3 non-hit to show in spins 31-40, the progression is down to 1 unit, nice, you press on the progression is going up, what did count back show the 20th was early, should have waited, but the roulette god favours you spin 38 +59, now run.
Just like yesterday and other days from memory, I MUST WATCH THE TROT.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JimmieB on Feb 20, 07:49 AM 2016
@Denzie,

Out of interest, what RNG are you using?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 20, 10:39 AM 2016
Impressive method! I have also started to test it. Today I was lazy so I collected the 10 numbers and started to bet with 1 unit on the remaining 27 numbers.

I did not remove any numbers and just continued betting until one of the 10 numbers repeated. What happened I earned 100 units. Impressive!

Has someone done some similar thing?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 20, 01:05 PM 2016
Impressive method! I have also started to test it. Today I was lazy so I collected the 10 numbers and started to bet with 1 unit on the remaining 27 numbers.

I did not remove any numbers and just continued betting until one of the 10 numbers repeated. What happened I earned 100 units. Impressive!

Has someone done some similar thing?

Hold on a minute, first you said you were betting on the 27 unhit numbers and then you said you were betting for repeats of the first 10 numbers.
Please clarify how you were betting.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 20, 01:24 PM 2016
Sorry, I will try to explain:
First I collected 10 numbers. Then I started to bet on the unhit 27 numbers until 1 number  of the 10 numbers I collected did a repeat. Then I stopped. So I won around 10 straight -> 100 units.

I was just lazy and playing around  8)
I think I will try to play around with gr8players progression and see what happens..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 20, 01:26 PM 2016
just be careful tuddilue, sometimes those 10 numbers will repeat 3 times in a row....so just be aware
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 20, 01:28 PM 2016
just be careful tuddilue, sometimes those 10 numbers will repeat 3 times in a row....so just be aware
Yes I understand that. But maybe a small progression will fix it. I mean I just need 3 wins in a row to recover...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 20, 01:51 PM 2016
Agree
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Feb 20, 02:07 PM 2016
Still testing.
Must admit I get nervous though if I try and obtain to much profit.
Last game I was 30u up. Thought ok that's good enough.
Always the case you think you're go for a little more and wish you never did.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 06:03 AM 2016
Todays win registry has been added
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 07:07 AM 2016
Okay i see a few people have looked at the avg doc.

Now its my morning for a dig at the math.

Todays sheet not put up yet. 1st 10 spins 8/10.

So if we play the waiting game, waiting for the repeats to happen,we get spins 11-14,4 non hit, so would KTF watchers jump?, now the wait R,R
we look at the doc and before up dating today we would have seen max for the 13th non-hit is 3, avg to come in 1.4 spins.
Well 2 spins not come, max 3, like Winkel says decision time, if we bet and lose be -25, plus the unit, will bet 50, if wins be -3.
So if your waiting why not wait the 3 spins if it came in you have not lost anything, but then bet, it wins, so now max has gone up to 4 spins after 59 games.

You are not betting blindly, just using avg.

Is using avg this way so wrong, you might sit a 37 spin cycle out without even making a bet. The averages dont change everyday, but some max spins go up, but like said not every day.

The 13 th non-hit has 59 results
42  1st spin
9    2nd spin          so in the waiting game, waiting to see if came in in avg 2 spins would have waited 51 times, won 7 times
7    3rd spin           7*11= +77  lost today  77-25= +52
1    4th spin


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 07:22 AM 2016
Know the comments are with hindsight but this is how you need to be thinking,watching, using as much info as you can, haven't even looked at countback, a bit more info. Don't/cant think then don't play, the math will get you >:D
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)			
0 37
1 22 36
2 10 35
3 11 34
4 29 33
5 23 32
6 22 r
7 17 31
8 18 30
9 18 r stake
10 14 29 non-hit return
11 30 28 1 29 36 7
12 27 27 1 28 36 15
13 31 26 1 27 36 24
14 36 25 1 26 36 34 should stop
15 14 r 1 25 0 9 stop take the win watch trot
16 27 r 2 50 0 -41 avg not in
17 23 r 3 75 0 -116 max to date
18 9 24 4 100 144 -72 bet,win
19 14 r 3 72 0 -144
20 5 23 4 96 144 -96
21 9 r 3 69 0 -165
22 8 22 4 92 144 -113
23 30 r 3 66 0 -179
24 32 21 4 88 144 -123
25 5 r 3 63 0 -186
26 13 20 4 84 144 -126
27 16 19 3 60 108 -78
28 28 18 2 38 72 -44
29 3 17 1 18 36 -26
30 32 r 1 17 0 -43
31 11 r 2 34 0 -77
32 9 r 3 51 0 -128
33 36 r 4 68 0 -196
34 17 r 5 85 0 -281
35 11 r 6 102 0 -383
36 34 16 7 119 252 -250
37 1 15 6 96 216 -130
38 29 r 5 75 0 -205
39 8 r 6 90 0 -295
40 32 r 7 105 0 -400
41 11 r 8 120 0 -520
42 18 r 9 135 0 -655
43 20 14 10 150 360 -445
44 20 r 9 126 0 -571
45 0 13 10 140 360 -351
46 3 r 9 117 0 -468
47 6 12 10 130 360 -238
48 27 r 9 108 0 -346
49 35 11 10 120 360 -106
50 0 r 9 99 0 -205
51 15 10 10 110 360 45 stop
52 2 9 9 90 324 279
53 1 r 8 72 0 207
54 28 r 9 81 0 126
55 8 r 10 90 0 36
56 25 8 11 99 396 333
57 6 r 10 80 0 253
58 10 r 11 88 0 165
59 3 r 12 96 0 69
60 8 r 13 104 0 -35
-35
61 35 r 14 112 0 -147
62 26 7 15 120 540 273
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 21, 08:08 AM 2016
To play ktf or to play for repeats. That is the question

.........
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 08:12 AM 2016
Or the waiting game
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 08:23 AM 2016
The waiting game
Think about it, whilst your hawking, what is mr average doing and i don't mean JOE.

Your double street, whats the avg for a single dozen to repeat, lets say its 6 so whilst hawking you see at one of the tables dozen 2 has hit for 6, would you now feel you could bet the 2nd dozen as its past its avg to come in, what you'd need to know is whats its max to come in, so would waiting for its avg in-still the confidence to bet it
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 21, 08:24 AM 2016
.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 08:25 AM 2016
would be with that lady at the wheel
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 09:00 AM 2016
Signing out soccer
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Feb 21, 06:18 PM 2016
Just checking in on this method.
Been playing for a few days now. Last session this evening made 195 units for around 1 hour an 30 mins play.
What I tend to do is try not to go into to many spins. Get your 10 unique and literally just spin another 4 or 6.
That's it. Reset and play again.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 06:32 PM 2016
Exactly
Remember that 50/60 is only an example of if you had to keep on playing,KTF
Watch that trot,like Azim said practice,practice. Keep in mind the avg for non-hit,try to remember what the max non-hit could take.
You watch the trot of 0x and 1x +>1x, watch the profit trot, remember the last high, you got to be watching.
Have you used countback.

Nice to see +195

Keep up the good work
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 21, 06:50 PM 2016
off hand the average hits in 37 spins are 24 numbers right? so after 10 uniques we should have 14 wins on KTF? 24 minus 10 is 14
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 07:03 PM 2016
yes, but i work on 40 spins
interested in spins11-40, those 30 spins on avg 15 non-hit, but its where the 15 repeats come, so you have to watch the trot, find away/your way to read the trot,its all about 0x,1x then the >1x.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 21, 07:16 PM 2016
I like to get a few repeaters straight after our 10 spins. Then go in..... didn't failed me yet.
Can't say it enough. ...Thx Notto!

@Jimmy B. ....what you mean ? The software or the casino ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 07:20 PM 2016
RG
KTF started out for me just betting off the non-hit, that machine of death that i play on just seemed to catch me out after some time,so i'd go back to the drawing board,come at it a different way, again and again.
Then i come across GUT and boom it hit me The trot that Winkel and Azim where talking about. Me betting non-hit, but it was seeing the trot,how those pesky 1x's mucked me up, so i learnt when i could bet 1x+>1x together, or 0x+1x, i learnt how to mix them up.
Perhaps if Winkel could have gone on, he might have shown his way to bet just more than the one crossing.

The avg doc its all info, the more info you have, will help show the trot. What about watching the profit,it has a trot + then - back up is it time to take a small profit, Jump,restart what did the Guvnor Winkel say its you decision.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Feb 22, 05:51 AM 2016
Hi Notto

What you mean when you're referring to count back.
I'm currently using a rng where there's no spin history. Literally I'll just spin until the unique 10 are their.
For me it's the less spins you make the better. Start to go to deep and to you have a higher chance of hitting to many repeats.
Its personal preference but I'd prefer to get in and out and reset new game. Profit from say 20-40 units max.
When you start to chase the game it can be a long drawn out process.




Exactly
Remember that 50/60 is only an example of if you had to keep on playing,KTF
Watch that trot,like Azim said practice,practice. Keep in mind the avg for non-hit,try to remember what the max non-hit could take.
You watch the trot of 0x and 1x +>1x, watch the profit trot, remember the last high, you got to be watching.
Have you used countback.

Nice to see +195

Keep up the good work
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 06:10 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  22.2.16 KTF  +66 #29
So we know we have a choice, go for it +1/-1 and KTF.
Or we watch,dont bet, why bet, the 1st 10 let us know how many non-hit and one hit.
Today with countback beside spins11-20, gives a good indicator for those who watch, the KTF users of to a bad start, but the figure shows, they get the profit.

we can see with countback the 10th non-hit is reluctant to show, if you've looked at the avg doc you'll see its missed its avg of 2 spins, its max at this time is 3 spins, so the decision go for it or wait, if you do bet and it lost,+1 wont get a profit, so a marty would be needed to make a profit,but it came in, so still max 3 spins.

Now the max spins will go up but when, the avg doc really needs to be 100 games, then there should be a confident avg to use.
Will have to have 2 avg doc's like Chrisbis said, one of a changing 100 games and one that just grows, these 2 pieces of info will be useful for comparison.
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 14 36
2 9 35
3 20 34
4 20 r
5 5 33
6 30 32
7 36 31
8 35 30
9 12 29 stake
10 24 28 non-hit return
11 30 r 1 28 0 -28
12 20 r 2 56 0 -84
13 2 27 3 84 108 -60
14 17 26 2 54 72 -42
15 18 25 1 26 36 -32
16 17 r 1 25 0 -57
17 36 r 2 50 0 -107
18 2 r 3 75 0 -182
19 25 24 4 100 144 -138
20 31 23 3 72 108 -102
21 32 22 2 46 72 -76
22 9 r 1 22 0 -98
23 19 21 2 44 72 -70
24 23 20 1 21 36 -55
25 1 19 1 20 36 -39
26 14 r 1 19 0 -58
27 9 r 2 38 0 -96
28 22 18 3 57 108 -45
29 12 r 2 36 0 -81
30 21 17 3 54 108 -27
31 23 r 2 34 0 -61
32 18 r 3 51 0 -112
33 13 16 4 68 144 -36
34 4 15 3 48 108 24
35 29 14 2 30 72 66
36 14 r 1
37 8 13 2
38 19 r
39 31 r
40 1 r
41 1
42 31
43 24
44 9
45 27
46 4
47 22
48 32
49 6
50 19
51 5
52 32
53 30
54 17
55 28
56 29
57 31
58 36
59 27
60 11

61 13
62 10
63 19
64 19
65 8
66 35
67 12
68 17
69 8
70 21
71 6
72 2
73 11
74 17
75 0
76 7
77 27
78 27
79 1
80 36
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 06:29 AM 2016
Hi  spartanrules
Countback.
If you think its fair to say in spins 11-30 we will on avg get 15.69492 non-hit, now i know the math guys will say round up,but for me i drop the .69492, so 15 in 30 spins.
So if you agree then what we could see is spins11-20 get 5 non-hit,spins 21-30 5 non-hit and spins 31-40 5 non-hit, the 15 non-hit in 30 spins.

So between the blocks of 4*10 on the sheet you can write countback, countback is the amount of non-hit in spins 1-10 plus the avg 15.
Today we get 9/10, so 9+15=24, avg says at spin 40 we could have 24 non-hit, spins 11-20 get 5 non-hit so + nothing, in between the boxes write countback like i have on the sheet, i should have started at spin 39/40 with 24 and wrote coming back to spins 11/12.

You can see today got the 15 non-hit by 37th spin LOTT as well, i suppose its the perfect trot, but you need to practice if your going to play against the trot.

Its personal preference but I'd prefer to get in and out and reset new game. Profit from say 20-40 units max.
When you start to chase the game it can be a long drawn out process.
Your words, so you've made the decision, i cant agree more take an early win. I just showed how betting only the non-hits with +1/-1 can make 50/60units, but why go to 50/60, why not be happy with  say +30 and reset
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JimmieB on Feb 22, 06:35 AM 2016
@ Denzie, what casino? Thanks..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 06:38 AM 2016
It can get a little scary +1 -1 so u must ktf

But any luck flat bet?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 06:46 AM 2016
Flat bet is hit and miss i'm afraid. The repeats in 11-20 would make it hard
28
28
28-36
27-36
26-36
25
25
25
25-36
24-36
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 22, 06:55 AM 2016
@ Denzie, what casino? Thanks..

:.casino777.be

Or check :.gamingcommission.be  : this is a website from our government with the casino's thar are under there strict supervision. (If any probs you contact them and they know what bet you made and when etc before you even tell them.) And more importantly : check the BLACKLIST

@all KTF testers.  More then 50 sessions now and only get 3 results in our spins  11-40

15 unhit / 15 repeaters
16 unhit / 14 repeaters
19 unhit / 11 repeaters

 :o
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 07:00 AM 2016
The only rng casino i can really use is club world group

Another member had suggested miami club but they dont accept my state

Im willing to try club world group because they seem to be accredited and have a .25 cent minimum bet....and they accept U.S.

I dont know......
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 22, 09:35 AM 2016
I have a little hard to understand the trot. What do you mean with this below?
Exactly
Remember that 50/60 is only an example of if you had to keep on playing,KTF
Watch that trot,like Azim said practice,practice. Keep in mind the avg for non-hit,try to remember what the max non-hit could take.
Do you have an example of this 0x and 1x +>1x? Is this the 15 non hit?
You watch the trot of 0x and 1x +>1x, watch the profit trot, remember the last high, you got to be watching.
Have you used countback.

Nice to see +195

Keep up the good work

I understand the repeaters and the unhit.
I have started to log my bets as well. I'm playing on Bwin rng..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 22, 09:38 AM 2016
It can get a little scary +1 -1 so u must ktf

But any luck flat bet?
Yes I agree with you,  but +1 -1 works best for now. I have also tested flatbet. But as nottophammer says it will not recover. Maybe gr8player but that is a slow progression as well..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 22, 10:08 AM 2016
still using +1/-1

slower +1/-1             old+1/-1  using todays #'s

1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 3
2                                 2
1                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 3
2                                 2
1                                 1
                                   1
I think I have missed this. What is the old and new progression?  Which one are you using today?
Can you write the whole progression?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 22, 12:18 PM 2016
I think I have missed this. What is the old and new progression?  Which one are you using today?
Can you write the whole progression?


This was a relaxed betting progression suggestion that notto mentioned a while ago but I do not know if anybody ever tried it.
I know I didn't.

The progression has always been +1/-1 and still remains that way as far as I am aware.
Note that the relaxed progression proposed was only for the numbers for that day.

The proposed BR for KTF has always been $400.
I have not had a drawdown over $300 since following the trot and therefore found no need to change from the +1/-1 progression.

From what I see in the casinos, too many players are underfunded when they play roulette, or any other game in the casino for that matter.
As has been stated many times if you do not have the required BR, and be prepared to lose it, you should not be playing the system/method you  have selected, and, you never play with scared money.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 12:23 PM 2016
Never play with scared money

I love that quote. and a Blackjack dealer told me that once

On an airball macine using $1 units $400 bankroll would be sufficient? Notto? Celtic?

Id aim for $40 then take a break

@ tamino, those mathboyzz say taking a break means nothing
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 12:30 PM 2016
tuddilue, you asked
Do you have an example of this 0x and 1x, +>1x? Is this the 15 non hit?

Yes over the 30 spins 11-40 you will see the above, If you play KTF, betting every spin with +1/-1, we've seen it win 57 games out of 58.
All i was doing, was putting KTF up, to show you could just bet the non-hit, with the best progression, i've found to use, is the +1/-1
Yes it can get scary, so you need to decide where to stop.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 12:50 PM 2016
Stop loss recommendation?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 22, 01:05 PM 2016

On an airball macine using $1 units $400 bankroll would be sufficient? Notto? Celtic?

Id aim for $40 then take a break

@ tamino, those mathboyzz say taking a break means nothing


-Rg

$1 airball with $400 BR is what I am playing and as stated in my last post I have not had a drawdown over $300 in a long time.

As I play on an American wheel if I make $30-40 in the first few spins I am finished, if not, I still quit when the profit is around the $40 mark.

Whether you take a break or not is up to you and whether or not it makes a difference as far as the math is concerned I do not know.
I just watch the trot and follow the rules or as the title of this thread says "Keep The Faith" and it has been good to me.
The only break I take is when I am finished that session and usually I only play one or maybe two sessions a day and never back to back sessions.

One thing I have not seen mentioned on this thread is that when playing KTF it can be stressful and you have to concentrate and keep your wits about you.

Go for many small wins.
They do add up.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 01:13 PM 2016
I think that some members have found how to watch the trot, each to their own way.
As i just said for those 30 spins +1/-1 has done the job.
 So now we know that those 30 spins on avg produce 15 non-hit, Remember the topic i started 12 unique in x spins, go back look at how the 12 unique repeat, is it 1 spin or 3 spins?
Look at the avg doc,the early non-hit avg to hit in 2spins,but what you need to know, is the max spins.
The max the doc shows at the moment when the 12th non-hit has come, the 13th non-hit up to yesterday was max 3 spins, so 12 unique can repeat straight away, so if your just watching the trot today you would have seen countback show the the 12th non-hit is on time, but now you see the 12 repeat and think of the 13th non-hit's avg to hit, 2spins, 2 spins come,not shown, countback shows its possible to show on the 17th spin,but its a repeat, so could it come on the 18th, you are watching the trot, 18th another repeat, now countback says its late, its repeated 3 times its usual max, so now is a good time to bet the 25 non-hit, but not with +1/-1, if it lost again, the2 unit bet, would lose you 3 units if it came in, but a 3unit loss is bareable.
Remember the above is average,so keep up todate with Average.

A stop loss, that depends on how you play, are you going to just watch the trot, watching how the 1x behave.
Theres a lot to aid you decisions, avg,max, countback and then the bankroll, probably the best, think to watch,is there early profit, take a small profit, you have all day, different tables.

Celticknits has just beat me, but he says it right small wins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 22, 01:15 PM 2016
Celticknits. ... how you handle this one

R
U
U
R
U
R
R
U
U
R
U
U
R
U
R
U
U
R
U
R
U
R
R
U
U
U
R
R
R
U

 ;D
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 01:16 PM 2016

-Rg

$1 airball with $400 BR is what I am playing and as stated in my last post I have not had a drawdown over $300 in a long time.

As I play on an American wheel if I make $30-40 in the first few spins I am finished, if not, I still quit when the profit is around the $40 mark.

Whether you take a break or not is up to you and whether or not it makes a difference as far as the math is concerned I do not know.
I just watch the trot and follow the rules or as the title of this thread says "Keep The Faith" and it has been good to me.
The only break I take is when I am finished that session and usually I only play one or maybe two sessions a day and never back to back sessions.

One thing I have not seen mentioned on this thread is that when playing KTF it can be stressful and you have to concentrate and keep your wits about you.

Go for many small wins.
They do add up.

-Celtic

Thanks for the info.

We both have airball so that gives me faith

Your largest drawdown was 300 and recovered? Or you stopped?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 01:22 PM 2016
« Reply #224 on: Today at 11:29:01 AM »

    Quote

Hi  spartanrules
Countback.
If you think its fair to say in spins 11-30 we will on avg get 15.69492 non-hit, now i know the math guys will say round up,but for me i drop the .69492, so 15 in 30 spins.
So if you agree then what we could see is spins11-20 get 5 non-hit,spins 21-30 5 non-hit and spins 31-40 5 non-hit, the 15 non-hit in 30 spins.


So between the blocks of 4*10 on the sheet you can write countback, countback is the amount of non-hit in spins 1-10 plus the avg 15.
Today we get 9/10, so 9+15=24, avg says at spin 40 we could have 24 non-hit, spins 11-20 get 5 non-hit so + nothing, in between the boxes write countback like i have on the sheet, i should have started at spin 39/40 with 24 and wrote coming back to spins 11/12.

You can see today got the 15 non-hit by 37th spin LOTT as well, i suppose its the perfect trot, but you need to practice if your going to play against the trot.

Its personal preference but I'd prefer to get in and out and reset new game. Profit from say 20-40 units max.
When you start to chase the game it can be a long drawn out process.
Your words, so you've made the decision, i cant agree more take an early win. I just showed how betting only the non-hits with +1/-1 can make 50/60units, but why go to 50/60, why not be happy with  say +30 and reset

earlier today, the countback is a guide to how the 15 could come, 10th's late, 13th just gone over it, but 14th came trot on time, its to help in your decisions
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 01:41 PM 2016
Celticknits. ... how you handle this one

R-1
U-2
U-1
R-1
U-2
R-1
R-2
U-3
U-2
R-1
U-2
U-1
R-1
U-2
R-1
U-2
U-1  +54  leave assuming it was 10/10
R
U
R
U
R
R
U
U
U
R
R
R
U

 ;D
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 22, 01:52 PM 2016
Celticknits. ... how you handle this one

R
U
U
R
U
R
R
U
U
R
U
U
R
U
R
U
U
R
U
R
U
R
R
U
U
U
R
R
R
U

 ;D

-Denzie

Tricky one.  :question:

I have to make several assumptions here:

1. These spins do not include the initial 10
2. The initial count was 10/10 or thereabouts
3. Based on the trot I would have started betting normally and then switched to betting repeats on spin 21

If there were no spins prior then I would wait for more spins because it looks like it can go either way but there must have been prior spins because your first consideration was a Repeat.  :wink:

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 22, 02:08 PM 2016
-Denzie

Tricky one.  :question:

I have to make several assumptions here:

1. These spins do not include the initial 10
2. The initial count was 10/10 or thereabouts
3. Based on the trot I would have started betting normally and then switched to betting repeats on spin 21

If there were no spins prior then I would wait for more spins because it looks like it can go either way but there must have been prior spins because your first consideration was a Repeat.  :wink:

-Celtic

Hihi

This was a real session. First 10 spins was 9 unhit and 1 repeat. I personally never play the 11th spin. But I always play after it when it's a repeat.  So I take that little profit and restart it all . 9 out of 10 I got it .

I like the repeaters early.   :)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 22, 02:20 PM 2016
Hihi

This was a real session. First 10 spins was 9 unhit and 1 repeat. I personally never play the 11th spin. But I always play after it when it's a repeat.  So I take that little profit and restart it all . 9 out of 10 I got it .

I like the repeaters early.   :)

Can you post the actual numbers for the session?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 22, 02:33 PM 2016
Thanks all I got my answer of my questions.  I'm now playing with the 15 unit unit in 11-40. This is so beautiful because then you now the trot.
I have a bankroll of 400.
My win goal is around 30 units.
I have played around with different progressions but the +1/-1 is the one that works best for me.
I have doubled my bankroll as of now and I will put up some logs. But I have just started to log as nottophammer does, so it will take some time :-)
Thanks for a good system!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 03:21 PM 2016
Glad your ?'s have been sorted. watch that trot
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 22, 03:32 PM 2016
Can you post the actual numbers for the session?

-Celtic

I'll post them tomorrow mate
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 03:49 PM 2016
Thanks all I got my answer of my questions.  I'm now playing with the 15 unit unit in 11-40. This is so beautiful because then you now the trot.
I have a bankroll of 400.
My win goal is around 30 units.
I have played around with different progressions but the +1/-1 is the one that works best for me.
I have doubled my bankroll as of now and I will put up some logs. But I have just started to log as nottophammer does, so it will take some time :-)
Thanks for a good system!

Im a bit behind. Wait for 15 unique? Then bet the 21 unhit?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 03:55 PM 2016
RG
If 15 have come it will leave 22 on euro
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 04:01 PM 2016
Ok. So wait 15 unique then go in with ktf? Right?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 22, 04:03 PM 2016
Im a bit behind. Wait for 15 unique? Then bet the 21 unhit?
Sorry looks like an h is missing. I mean 15 unhit.  nottophammer explains about in #241 above..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 04:14 PM 2016
Celticknits
Away to look at non-hit and one hit is like in Winkels graph, the non-hit are high and the one hit low, is there a sweet point? as the non-hit get lighter the one hit are gaining weight, so at some point the 1x reverse there position and become an unfavorable bet, profit on them is dropping.

But because theres now more 1x than 0x, does it really make them unbetable. To me yes as more 1x come they increase in cost, unlike the 0x, at the start, they get cheaper, but its all about watching how they come
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 06:07 PM 2016
I know i sound like an idiot with the questions

But you mean wait until 15 non hit then bet the non hits with +1 -1

We want 21 uniqies then go in?

 :lol:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 06:54 PM 2016
RG
the sheet shows workings to £1 units, you can start on a smaller unit, on that machine of death i have to use .20p units, so i dont get to the max bet of £100
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 22, 10:34 PM 2016

Your largest drawdown was 300 and recovered? Or you stopped?

Recovered because I watched the trot and kept the faith.
I am prepared to go to $400.

Today I had a $204 drawdown and recovered not problem.
I will be posting the sheet I used soon.

-Dave

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 10:41 PM 2016
Im going to have to join in on this fun soon......

I have.........faith
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 22, 10:52 PM 2016
I know i sound like an idiot with the questions

But you mean wait until 15 non hit then bet the non hits with +1 -1

We want 21 uniqies then go in?

 :lol:

-RG

Repeat after me "I am not an idiot...I am not an idiot...I am not an idiot..." OK now we can continue. :lol:

To answer your question:
You do not need 21 uniques.

Just take the last 10 numbers and work with them as explained in all these pages.
No fancy progressions just +1/-1.
Do not try to reinvent KTF it works fine as presented.

Learn to read the trot.
I think that you are involved in so many different systems you are just confusing yourself.
If you want to play around with different systems that is fine but KTF takes a lot of time, effort and studying to master.
If you want to play to make money then concentrate on KTF until you understand it.

As I said before, KTF has a steep learning curve but it does work IF you take the time to read the information available in this thread, the Jackpot Joy thread and anything to do with Winkels GUT procedure(s), especially on the VLS forum.

I hope this helps.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 22, 11:50 PM 2016
Today I decided to see how well I understand the teachings of KTF, the trot and GUT.
Refer to the attached sheet for some further explanations.

I decided I would bet as long as possible using my current knowledge of KTF and the trot and see how long I could last.
BR was $400

In the end I bet a total of 53 spins continuously.

It turned out that this would be done in 3  back to back sessions.
This was controlled by the trot not me.

Session 1
OK so I the first session I obtained the last ten numbers and bet for non hits.
This session only lasted 5 spins and I was up $35

Session 2
I decided to take the last 10 numbers spun and start a new session betting for the non hit numbers again.
This session consisted of a total of 24 spins and it went negative right from the start.
As a matter of fact I stayed at a negative balance until the very last spin and quit with a profit of $30.

Spin 14 of this session had a $204 drawdown but it did not worry me because the trot said I should recover.
Notice I said should and not would. Remember we are still gambling and we could lose......

OK after winning $65 for both those sessions I noticed that the trot said that repeats were way overdue so I decided to bet for the repeats in session 3.

After spin 11 in session 3 I was up $32 but the the trot was still good for repeats and my next bet was only $20 so if I lost I would have quit the session and still had a profit of $12 giving me a total of $77 for all three sessions.

As it turned out the next spin was a winner and I was up to $49 and only betting $18 so I decided to continue betting until my first loss.
The trot was still good.
I won the next two spins and had a session profit of $86 so far.
I lost the next spin (#14) with a bet of $16 and quit with a session 3 profit of $70.

So the total profit for the 53 spins was $35+$30+$70=$135

To summarize I have to say that I would never do this again.
It was so mentally intense to stay on top of everything going on it would not have taken much to lose track.

I am retired and this was done in mid afternoon when there were only one to two other players at the wheel so I am sure that this helped a lot.

Please note that the sheet does not show Numbers 31-36 in the block where you mark what numbers to bet and which are hit.
All Six of those numbers were bet on. (This shows in the same area of Session 2).

I hope this is helpful to answering some questions you guys may have.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 04:15 AM 2016
Today I decided to see how well I understand the teachings of KTF, the trot and GUT.
Refer to the attached sheet for some further explanations.

I decided I would bet as long as possible using my current knowledge of KTF and the trot and see how long I could last.
BR was $400

In the end I bet a total of 53 spins continuously.

It turned out that this would be done in 3  back to back sessions.
This was controlled by the trot not me.

Session 1
OK so I the first session I obtained the last ten numbers and bet for non hits.
This session only lasted 5 spins and I was up $35

Session 2
I decided to take the last 10 numbers spun and start a new session betting for the non hit numbers again.
This session consisted of a total of 24 spins and it went negative right from the start.
As a matter of fact I stayed at a negative balance until the very last spin and quit with a profit of $30.

Spin 14 of this session had a $204 drawdown but it did not worry me because the trot said I should recover.
Notice I said should and not would. Remember we are still gambling and we could lose......

OK after winning $65 for both those sessions I noticed that the trot said that repeats were way overdue so I decided to bet for the repeats in session 3.

After spin 11 in session 3 I was up $32 but the the trot was still good for repeats and my next bet was only $20 so if I lost I would have quit the session and still had a profit of $12 giving me a total of $77 for all three sessions.

As it turned out the next spin was a winner and I was up to $49 and only betting $18 so I decided to continue betting until my first loss.
The trot was still good.
I won the next two spins and had a session profit of $86 so far.
I lost the next spin (#14) with a bet of $16 and quit with a session 3 profit of $70.

So the total profit for the 53 spins was $35+$30+$70=$135

To summarize I have to say that I would never do this again.
It was so mentally intense to stay on top of everything going on it would not have taken much to lose track.

I am retired and this was done in mid afternoon when there were only one to two other players at the wheel so I am sure that this helped a lot.

Please note that the sheet does not show Numbers 31-36 in the block where you mark what numbers to bet and which are hit.
All Six of those numbers were bet on. (This shows in the same area of Session 2).

I hope this is helpful to answering some questions you guys may have.

-Celtic
Impressive sessions. I have a question the session 2, you have written 6+1 but should it not be 11+1? (5+6 unhit)..

Another question, how did you know when to switch to betting on repeats? Because when I read it the trot was showing that the repeats and unhit was correct. I mean 11 unhits and 9 repeats. How did you know that it should come more repeats?

I think the progression is so steep. Should it be possible to not go so deep? I mean when you have lost 3 times you are really in the deep  :twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 05:03 AM 2016
I was thinking about the progression,  has someone tested positive progression. I mean turn the +1/-1 around.

When winning you do +1 and when you loose you do -1.

That would be really interesting to see what happens   O0
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 23, 05:30 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  23.2.16     KTF  +38?

Now if you play KTF then there is no need to watch the trot as its just betting the non-hit every spin with +1/-1 to win your win target, as above ktf no watching the trot, 4 non-hit on the bounce, stands at +38 is that enough for you to stop.

If on the other hand you are watching the trot, lots to think of, think what the 12 unique showed us, 14 spins 1 repeat, countback, showing how early the non-hit are,
So are you stopping +38, or you chance for a repeat.

Remember this is a game of chance, theres no hard fast rules for the wheel, just your experiance and knowledge of how a trot could show.

What countback looks like.  dont need to do any more on the sheet i'd take the +38
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 05:35 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  23.2.16     KTF  +38?

Now if you play KTF then there is no need to watch the trot as its just betting the non-hit every spin with +1/-1 to win your win target, as above ktf no watching the trot, 4 non-hit on the bounce, stands at +38 is that enough for you to stop.

If on the other hand you are watching the trot, lots to think of, think what the 12 unique showed us, 14 spins 1 repeat, countback, showing how early the non-hit are,
So are you stopping +38, or you chance for a repeat.

Remember this is a game of chance, theres no hard fast rules for the wheel, just your experiance and knowledge of how a trot could show.

What countback looks like.  dont need to do any more on the sheet i'd take the +38
Ok I was just curious and always interesting to learn more about the trot and how people read it and bet after it.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 05:38 AM 2016
Have you tested some positive progression?  Would be interesting to hear what you think about it and if it is possible..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 23, 05:57 AM 2016
tuddilue
You will learn the trot from experiance, the topic 12 unique shows how the unique do repeat, also those 12 dont repeat for over 9 spins,but not often. Remember the LOTT, how 24 non-hit is shown to account for 20% of the 500,000 37 spin cycles.
Todays sheet shows 14 spins, 13  of the 24 has already shown, 23 spins still to come, another 11 nonhit could show,so 12 repeats could happen, well 37th spin its 24 non-hit.
Plenty of info on the forum to help understand the trot.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 23, 05:57 AM 2016
Impressive sessions. I have a question the session 2, you have written 6+1 but should it not be 11+1? (5+6 unhit)..

I find it easier to write them individually and just add them together in my head but you are correct the way that notto's JJ sheets are shown it would be 11+1

Another question, how did you know when to switch to betting on repeats? Because when I read it the trot was showing that the repeats and unhit was correct. I mean 11 unhits and 9 repeats. How did you know that it should come more repeats?

I looked at the number of hit numbers and compared it to the repeats since the beginning of the session (including the first 10 numbers). 21 Hits  and only 9 repeats in the the first 30 spins. Then as soon as I had a profit at spin 22 I considered switching to repeats then because the count was now 23 hit and still only 9 repeats since the beginning of the session but I was only up $3 so I decided to give it a few more spins but at that point I knew I was going to switch to betting repeats in the next few spins. I lost the next spin and won the one after that and I was at +$30 so I then switched to repeats.

I think the progression is so steep. Should it be possible to not go so deep? I mean when you have lost 3 times you are really in the deep  :twisted:

In session two the progression only went to level 4.
I would have followed the progression even higher if it was required and this is why you need a $400 BR and need to Keep The Faith that it is going to work. Not easy sometimes such as session 2 when you are down $204 but if you do not have the BR or discipline to follow through I would suggest trying another method. It's not easy at times.

You have mentioned different progressions several times regarding KTF.
The progression is +1/-1 for KTF if you want to change it go ahead and try it.
I will stay with what has been tried and proven to work with it.


I hope this answers your questions.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 23, 05:59 AM 2016
Have you tested some positive progression?  Would be interesting to hear what you think about it and if it is possible..

Thats for you to test. Let us know you results. Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 23, 06:23 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  23.2.16     KTF  +38?

Now if you play KTF then there is no need to watch the trot as its just betting the non-hit every spin with +1/-1 to win your win target, as above ktf no watching the trot, 4 non-hit on the bounce, stands at +38 is that enough for you to stop.

If on the other hand you are watching the trot, lots to think of, think what the 12 unique showed us, 14 spins 1 repeat, countback, showing how early the non-hit are,
So are you stopping +38, or you chance for a repeat.

Remember this is a game of chance, theres no hard fast rules for the wheel, just your experiance and knowledge of how a trot could show.

What countback looks like.  dont need to do any more on the sheet i'd take the +38

I have hi-lited the sage words of advice above.

Maybe I should not have posted yesterday's session showing betting on repeats but I wanted to show that continuous betting including betting on repeats could be done.

I would not recommend playing three sessions in a row like I did yesterday, and, I would never do it again, because of the stress and intensity of concentration involved.

-Celtic

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 06:27 AM 2016
I hope this answers your questions.

-Celtic

Yes thank you that answers my questions!
Yes I always thinks on different progressions. I will of course test around with different approaches...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 06:28 AM 2016
Thats for you to test. Let us know you results. Thanks

He he Yes of course! It got me curios how it will work.
I will test tonight. I'm sitting on the work now and will get back to you about this...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 23, 06:37 AM 2016
He he Yes of course! It got me curios how it will work.
I will test tonight. I'm sitting on the work now and will get back to you about this...

For a good view on your results you should use Notto,s numbers .  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 23, 06:40 AM 2016

Maybe I should not have posted yesterday's session showing betting on repeats but I wanted to show that continuous betting including betting on repeats could be done.


-Celtic

It sure can. I'm. Doing it also. All up to how the trot is going at the moment. If I'm not sure/feel confident then I reset it all.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 23, 06:45 AM 2016
I've tried with positive progression and it is definitely not working.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 07:00 AM 2016
I've tried with positive progression and it is definitely not working.
Ok sad to hear.
Do you have an example?
Will it not recover fast enough?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 23, 07:15 AM 2016
The thing i like about +1 -1 for this is that you would have to get an insane amount of repeats for it to fail

I think this is one of those things that loses 1 out of 10 times and still in nice profit

$400 bankroll $300 stop loss? Celtic had $200 drawdown on airball which recovered....

Too early to tell. Good thing theres a lot of testers now

No RFH yet on this CWB
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 23, 07:18 AM 2016
@ Tuddi
If you miss after 2 or 3 hits, you lose too much, and it can't recover with 2 or 3 wins as every Loss is much bigger compered to Win.

I tried it few weeks ago, but you are welcome to make some tweak...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 23, 07:27 AM 2016
The thing i like about +1 -1 for this is that you would have to get an insane amount of repeats for it to fail

I think this is one of those things that loses 1 out of 10 times and still in nice profit


1 out of.... 10? Naaaaah
70? Maybe
More? Probably   :love:

Since I wait repeaters first after our 10 spins I didn't come close to losing. Only down side? I reset a looooot.  Lol. But on fast rng it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 07:30 AM 2016
@ Tuddi
If you miss after 2 or 3 hits, you lose too much, and it can't recover with 2 or 3 wins as every Loss is much bigger compered to Win.

I tried it few weeks ago, but you are welcome to make some tweak...
Yes I did some tests on paper with nottophammers numbers. But I agree with you. It can't recovery fast enough..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 23, 07:53 AM 2016
Reply 268
Exactly Celticknits as you play you start to see the repeats, overtime you realise you could bet for the repeat.
As the Grand master says it’s your decision.

I said some posts back i was only betting the non-hit, when reading GUT the light come on, what the 1x's where doing, try it get a session of numbers and manually draw the graph, I did, it’s all well and good a computer pops up a graph, yes a fancy picture, but do you really understand that picture.

I never used the various computer trackers, so i needed to see the tracking and come up with the paper tracker for gut, you could go to the B+M with that, you should be okay, but you stick a laptop by you, out.
Also no one knows what you’re doing with the pen and paper.

So what is the game, simple, what I wanted, its 0X's, then 1X's, then its >1X's. At the start what’s the larger group, 0X's, so who’s the favourite to hit, you have the avg doc for knowledge.
The one thing to remember, a live wheel will play how it wants, so that should be fair, aren't the larger group favoured, and what is good the larger group get cheaper to stake and give more value as they get lighter, you should have the win target by now, so you stop.

Now the trot watchers, what do we need to keep in mind, if you use the avg doc, it’s the 15 in 30, we seem to agree this is fair.
So now our game starts at spin 11, what’s the score? 8,9,10/10, so you should have some nervousness we are stepping into the unknown, well almost, you have experience and knowledge on your side, info you've collected, like the professional horse gamblers, they don’t bet blindly, nor do we. You/I we wait, watch, watch at the time the non-hit to come, do they come fast, without tracking you won’t know, but you are professional, if it was 10/10, then 5 non-hit on the trot, who’s fav to make an appearance yes Mr 1x. You know from understanding LOTT how many non-hit, are, I use the word, likely, nothing is guaranteed, but you are no amateur, you know how to stake, you should know the cost of the next bet already if it were to lose. Like the sage Mr J says “time” if the tables busy you’ll have time, to get round this dare I say it I use RNG, I’m in charge of the speed that this game is played at.
Try to get more aids to help in you decision.
1.   knowledge/experience
2.   Data base
3.   countback
4.   other topics that can be adapted to KTF
5.   If the subject is on a forum read the posts, might be something you’d not thought of, me included.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 23, 08:03 AM 2016
Notto you use an rng thats regulated. Id say online rngs are different

My local casino has video roulette machines

Im going to monitor that thing just to see if it works. Big 80 inch screen with a pretty lady
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 23, 08:10 AM 2016
Thats is RG collect some games, what the minimum unit, does it have a funny step increment, you need to know as when you start betting you dont want any funny distractions.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 23, 09:41 AM 2016
Celticknits. ...
5
33
19
19
8
36
28
21
22
14
---------------

19R
12U
34U
33R
10U
33R
8R
23U
2U
12R
15U
4U
33R
35U
5R
13U
1U
2R
32U
28R
3U
22R
14R
0U
7U
11U
32R
19R
10R
18U

 

Here are the numbers as requested Celticknits
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Feb 23, 10:07 AM 2016
Just checking in with KTF.
Had a few bad games where I had to take a loss.

Denzie. What table do you play at.?
I am currently using BV on their rng no live tables. Just don't like them really.
Would prefer some tips on a better table if possible.

Thanks. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 23, 10:30 AM 2016
:.casino777.be 

Can you post the nrs? So we can have a look.

Me personally never play the first spin (11)
I wait 2-3 repeaters on 11-12-13. Then I go in. Didn't got close to busting. I'm already happy with some profit and I stop.

Tomorrow I'll post 100 sessions.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 23, 10:41 AM 2016
I think denzie is on the right track

Wait until you have 2 to 3 repeaters within 13 spins then go in ktf

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Feb 23, 11:29 AM 2016
Hi Denzie

I'll wait for 2-3 repeaters then and report back on the results from this.

With casino777 you playing one particular table Denzie.? Thanks


:.casino777.be 

Can you post the nrs? So we can have a look.

Me personally never play the first spin (11)
I wait 2-3 repeaters on 11-12-13. Then I go in. Didn't got close to busting. I'm already happy with some profit and I stop.

Tomorrow I'll post 100 sessions.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 23, 01:18 PM 2016
Here are the numbers as requested Celticknits

-Denzie

S   #   R   Bet   P   Stake   Won   Net   Total
1   19   R   28   1   28      -28   -28
2   12      28   2   56   72   16   -12
3   34      27   1   27   36   9   -3
4   33   R   26   1   26      -26   -29
5   10      26   2   52   72   20   -9
6   33   R   25   1   25      -25   -34
7   8   R   25   2   50      -50   -84
8   23      25   3   75   108   33   -51
9   2      24   2   48   72   24   -27
10   12   R   23   1   23      -23   -50
11   15      23   2   46   72   26   -24
12   4      22   1   22   36   14   -10
13   33   R   21   1   21      -21   -31
14   35      21   2   42   72   30   -1
15   5   R   20   1   20      -20   -21
16   13      20   2   40   72   32   11
17   1      19   1   19   36   17   28-----Consider quitting
18   2   R   18   1   18      -18   10
19   32      18   2   36   72   36   46-----Definite Quitting spot as per KTF rules
20   28   R   17   1   17      -17   29
21   3      17   2   34   72   38   67
22   22   R   16   1   16      -16   51
23   14   R   16   2   32      -32   19
24   0      16   3   48   108   60   79
25   7      15   2   30   72   42   121
26   11      14   1   14   36   22   143
27   32   R   14   2   28      -28   115
28   19   R   14   3   42      -42   73
29   10   R   14   4   56      -56   17
30   18      14   5   70   180   110   127


Am I missing something? :question:

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 23, 02:52 PM 2016
In a perfect world start with 400. When double bankroll increase to 2 unit size. When double bankroll 4 unit size. Etc. But the world isnt perfect  :yawn:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 23, 03:24 PM 2016
Jon Bon Jovi approves this message

(http://link:s://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3c/Bon_Jovi_Keep_the_Faith_song.jpg)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 03:32 PM 2016
In a perfect world start with 400. When double bankroll increase to 2 unit size. When double bankroll 4 unit size. Etc. But the world isnt perfect  :yawn:
I think the problem you often do is to increase to fast. I mean it is better to take it slower and increase the bet size slowly. Otherwise it is so easy to blow the bankroll.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 23, 04:00 PM 2016
-Denzie

S   #   R   Bet   P   Stake   Won   Net   Total
1   19   R   28   1   28      -28   -28
2   12      28   2   56   72   16   -12
3   34      27   1   27   36   9   -3
4   33   R   26   1   26      -26   -29
5   10      26   2   52   72   20   -9
6   33   R   25   1   25      -25   -34
7   8   R   25   2   50      -50   -84
8   23      25   3   75   108   33   -51
9   2      24   2   48   72   24   -27
10   12   R   23   1   23      -23   -50
11   15      23   2   46   72   26   -24
12   4      22   1   22   36   14   -10
13   33   R   21   1   21      -21   -31
14   35      21   2   42   72   30   -1
15   5   R   20   1   20      -20   -21
16   13      20   2   40   72   32   11
17   1      19   1   19   36   17   28-----Consider quitting
18   2   R   18   1   18      -18   10
19   32      18   2   36   72   36   46-----Definite Quitting spot as per KTF rules
20   28   R   17   1   17      -17   29
21   3      17   2   34   72   38   67
22   22   R   16   1   16      -16   51
23   14   R   16   2   32      -32   19
24   0      16   3   48   108   60   79
25   7      15   2   30   72   42   121
26   11      14   1   14   36   22   143
27   32   R   14   2   28      -28   115
28   19   R   14   3   42      -42   73
29   10   R   14   4   56      -56   17
30   18      14   5   70   180   110   127


Am I missing something? :question:

-Celtic

I did catch one error but that was after we would have quit anyway and it would have produced additional profit in the last 4 spins.
I forgot to reduce the bet on spin #27 after the win on #26.

Sorry about that.

-Celtic

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 24, 05:14 AM 2016
:.casino777.be 

Can you post the nrs? So we can have a look.

Me personally never play the first spin (11)
I wait 2-3 repeaters on 11-12-13. Then I go in. Didn't got close to busting. I'm already happy with some profit and I stop.

Tomorrow I'll post 100 sessions.   :thumbsup:
Some questions:,
Are you using +1/-1 progression after this?
What are your win goal?
When you loose how long do you proceed with the betting or do you just stop and take the loss?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 24, 06:40 AM 2016
Hi Denzie

I'll wait for 2-3 repeaters then and report back on the results from this.

With casino777 you playing one particular table Denzie.? Thanks

I use the french tables. No idea why though. They look pretty  :P
And of course you not need to place a bet to spin the wheel.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 24, 06:44 AM 2016


Am I missing something? :question:

-Celtic

Nope . I missed. All those numbers can make a person start seeing things that not there.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 24, 06:45 AM 2016
Puttin an offer on a house today

Lets see if KTF can pay my property taxes
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 24, 06:49 AM 2016
Some questions:,
Are you using +1/-1 progression after this?
yep

What are your win goal?
As soon I'm in profit I reset


When you loose how long do you proceed with the betting or do you just stop and take the loss?

since I waited the repeaters didn't got a loss yet. But if I would have I would play till I'm almost back and stop there. There's no shame in losing a few units.


Btw I'm over 50 sessions for today now. I don't play them to the end. On a new high I reset. And I'm starting to see something very interesting here.... I'll post results later on today
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 24, 07:01 AM 2016
Btw I'm over 50 sessions for today now. I don't play them to the end. On a new high I reset. And I'm starting to see something very interesting here.... I'll post results later on today
Impressive!  That I'm looking forward to. It will be really interesting to see what you have found! A cliffhanger is always funny  :wink:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 08:44 AM 2016
Nope . I missed. All those numbers can make a person start seeing things that not there.

I hear you, thanks for letting me know.

I was so worried that I maybe miscalculated something the other day when I played 3 sessions back to back.
Never again.

It was funny the other day when I went in and sat down with my paper tracker in hand one of the other players made a comment that the biggest losers that he sees in roulette are the the ones playing a system and writing everything down. Another regular player told him that he did not know what I was doing but I always showed a profit.

Later after making $37 and stopping I got to talking to the guy and he asked what my system was.
I told him that I do not play a method or system but rather a betting strategy.
Anyone reading this that has read the 80 pages on GUT will know that Winkel has always said this several times.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 24, 08:54 AM 2016
Celtic since you play on airball having to deal with no pitboss or dealer is nice isnt it
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 08:56 AM 2016
Btw I'm over 50 sessions for today now. I don't play them to the end. On a new high I reset. And I'm starting to see something very interesting here.... I'll post results later on today

All the small wins do add up don't they.

What would you say the average time frame would be for each of your sessions/visits?
My session times range from 15 minutes to usually 30-45 minutes maximum.
My total casino time would average about an hour.

The one thing that I have noticed is that when I am following the trot and get to an outrageous number of not hits coming if I switch to betting repeats the repeats session is shorter and usually more profitable. Also, the drawdown is a lot less. I do not think I have had one over $100.
I think a lot of that has to do with the smaller stake because usuall I am only betting 20 numbers including the 0 and 00.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 09:06 AM 2016
Celtic since you play on airball having to deal with no pitboss or dealer is nice isnt it

Yes but there are still the floor personnell watching me every 5 minutes.
I have played the last three days in a row and usually go 4-5 times a week.
I stay away from the weekends when all the yahoos show up although I have gone in at 2-3 AM on a Sunday morning and it is amazing how many people are there at that time in the morning. I have also noted that at those hours the ones gambling are usually the desperate ones and playing with scared money or chasing losses and are not playing Blackjack or Roulette but slots. If they only knew.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 24, 09:19 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 24.2.16   KTF +£51 #32
A few pics of what i have to do to get the numbers, see how many players they have.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 24, 09:23 AM 2016
Notto these machines are nothing more then an ATM for you
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 24, 09:42 AM 2016
Id be curious to see on airball Celtic how this would look if we waited for 2 to 3 repeats then went in on the non hits.....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 10:27 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 24.2.16   KTF +£51 #32
A few pics of what i have to do to get the numbers, see how many players they have.

I can tell you that I for one appreciate it.
I download your sheets and go over every one of them in detail.

Although it is not KTF I have noticed that there is less of a drawdown betting repeats for some reason.
Look at todays sheet you posted and the trot after spin #30 (including the initial 10 numbers).
I would have been all over betting repeats at that point.

Thank you Notto.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 10:32 AM 2016
Id be curious to see on airball Celtic how this would look if we waited for 2 to 3 repeats then went in on the non hits.....

I believe that is what Denzie does but he also just posted that he resets after he has any positive balance.
I think that would cut out some of the large drawdowns but remember he is playing on a fast rng machine.

I would not do this because I am playing in a B&M and want to get in and out ASAP and resetting would increase my playing time.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 24, 11:21 AM 2016
I can tell you that I for one appreciate it.
I download your sheets and go over every one of them in detail.

Although it is not KTF I have noticed that there is less of a drawdown betting repeats for some reason.
Look at todays sheet you posted and the trot after spin #30 (including the initial 10 numbers).
I would have been all over betting repeats at that point.

Thank you Notto.

-Celtic
Yes I do that as well. You learn alot that way.

Yes I saw that as well. Impressive streak that you should want to bet at  >:D

How do you bet on the repeaters? Using the same progression?

Yes I also have alot of repeaters after the 20# spin. But I have never bet on them...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 11:39 AM 2016

How do you bet on the repeaters?

That is not KTF.
Read the 80 pages on the VLS forum regarding GUT


Using the same progression?
Yes!!!


AS NOTTO HAS SAID SEVERAL TIMES BETTING REPEATERS IS NOT KTF.
KTF IS BETTING NON HIT NUMBERS.


I sort of regret posting that sheet now, with the 3 sessions, the last one of which showed betting repeaters.

Note:I can hear you laughing in the background notto.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 24, 11:42 AM 2016
AS NOTTO HAS SAID SEVERAL TIMES BETTING REPEATERS IS NOT KTF.
KTF IS BETTING NON HIT NUMBERS.


I sort of regret posting that sheet now, with the 3 sessions, the last one of which showed betting repeaters.

Note:I can hear you laughing in the background notto.

-Celtic
Ok sorry for asking.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 11:52 AM 2016
Ok sorry for asking.

Not a problem.
I posted betting repeats just to show what was possible with additional studying.
Betting repeats is a topic for another thread not KTF and is covered quite nicely in the 80 pages on the VLS forum.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 24, 01:48 PM 2016
Paddy power 24.2.16   RNG  +28.60    70 minutes
Should go in RNG uk spins, but about repeats. I watch the #'s in the margin keeping an eye on how the uniques are going, missed it my 8 spins and the 7 unique,repeat the 7's. So its watch spin11 repeat so bet the 28 0x win.
keep watching spin 19 16th non-hit well early so bet for a repeat,lose,rebet, win,rebet lose, 18th early, rebet,win,rebet,win, go for it again lose, rebet up the chips to 2 units, win, drop the units,win. +12.60 around 10 minutes.

New machine
As above watch the margin, repeating in my 10 spins, just watch 15th non-hit is early and only 1 repeat, bet the 15 win. watch  18th early,see its repeating ,bet the 19 to come, lose, now even thou i decided to just relay the 19, i'd decided i'd exept a loss of a couple of units if it comes in, yes it wins. now bet the 18 to come3.60 win. Now watching 20 is on time according to countback, see i bet for the 21st at 3.40,lose, rebet, lose,rebet chip up,win. Again go for the 22nd lose, rebet ,win. Now its behind on the count so go for the 23rd,takes 4 spins chipping up accordingly.

This is the grey-ish area to me spins 41-60. If we use the usual avg we've seen on KTF sheets, at spin 60 we see avg of 30 non-hit, so its needing 8 non-hit in 20 spins, so lets say every 2.5 spins.
So i'm waiting and another non-hit, two off the 8 have hit,so watching,you see i bet for the 13, lose, rebet,lose chip up win, wait, so if 2.5 is good so i bet spin 50 for the 26th,lose,rebet,win. watching, marked the #2 as a repeat so i was going to go for the 27th, then see the mistake it just came, so wait 28th where i put the possible win, so i've missed 3 non-hit, but its okay +£16.00

Just me on the trot
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 02:16 PM 2016
Paddy power 24.2.16   RNG  +28.60    70 minutes
Should go in RNG uk spins, but about repeats. I watch the #'s in the margin keeping an eye on how the uniques are going, missed it my 8 spins and the 7 unique,repeat the 7's. So its watch spin11 repeat so bet the 28 0x win.
keep watching spin 19 16th non-hit well early so bet for a repeat,lose,rebet, win,rebet lose, 18th early, rebet,win,rebet,win, go for it again lose, rebet up the chips to 2 units, win, drop the units,win. +12.60 around 10 minutes.

New machine
As above watch the margin, repeating in my 10 spins, just watch 15th non-hit is early and only 1 repeat, bet the 15 win. watch  18th early,see its repeating ,bet the 19 to come, lose, now even thou i decided to just relay the 19, i'd decided i'd exept a loss of a couple of units if it comes in, yes it wins. now bet the 18 to come3.60 win. Now watching 20 is on time according to countback, see i bet for the 21st at 3.40,lose, rebet, lose,rebet chip up,win. Again go for the 22nd lose, rebet ,win. Now its behind on the count so go for the 23rd,takes 4 spins chipping up accordingly.

This is the grey-ish area to me spins 41-60. If we use the usual avg we've seen on KTF sheets, at spin 60 we see avg of 30 non-hit, so its needing 8 non-hit in 20 spins, so lets say every 2.5 spins.
So i'm waiting and another non-hit, two off the 8 have hit,so watching,you see i bet for the 13, lose, rebet,lose chip up win, wait, so if 2.5 is good so i bet spin 50 for the 26th,lose,rebet,win. watching, marked the #2 as a repeat so i was going to go for the 27th, then see the mistake it just came, so wait 28th where i put the possible win, so i've missed 3 non-hit, but its okay +£16.00

Just me on the trot

Oh boy another sheet to study :love:

Nice.
What bet size were you using?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 24, 02:23 PM 2016
always start with .20p units, otherwise the machine could get me too the max £100 bet, if using £1 units.
This is why i said to RG does the airball machine have a naughty chip up.
On the rng machine it goes .20- .40- .60-.80-1.00- 2.00  from the £1 straight to £2 naughty.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 24, 02:31 PM 2016
Airball machine is $1 chip minimum $3000 max bet. No worries
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 02:37 PM 2016
always start with .20p units, otherwise the machine could get me too the max £100 bet, if using £1 units.
This is why i said to RG does the airball machine have a naughty chip up.
On the rng machine it goes .20- .40- .60-.80-1.00- 2.00  from the £1 straight to £2 naughty.

On my airball machine it is a a flat increment of $1 up to a table max of $500.00 bet.
I guess my machine has a sweetheart chip ;D

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Feb 24, 05:54 PM 2016
On my airball machine it is a a flat increment of $1 up to a table max of $500.00 bet.
I guess my machine has a sweetheart chip ;D

-Celtic

wonder why a Casino would let you bet $500..not to mention £3000?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 24, 07:57 PM 2016
105 sessions
2 busts on ktf

I thought I got something but I was wrong. And waiting for 3 repeaters takes to long.
But....it did comes out in profit.

If I watch the trot...then 0 busts.
keep watching what's going on. If not sure then don't bet. This is perfect as it is. Nothing to tweak here.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 08:07 PM 2016
105 sessions
2 busts on ktf

I thought I got something but I was wrong. And waiting for 3 repeaters takes to long.
But....it did comes out in profit.

If I watch the trot...then 0 busts.
keep watching what's going on. If not sure then don't bet. This is perfect as it is. Nothing to tweak here.  :thumbsup:

Sorry to hear about the two bust-outs
Are you able to supply us with the numbers from those two losing sessions?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 25, 02:46 AM 2016
Sorry to hear about the two bust-outs
Are you able to supply us with the numbers from those two losing sessions?

-Celtic
I think he is referring to the 2 first burst he had..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 25, 07:31 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  KTF +53 #36

So as per usual the larger group of non-hit, hit more than the 1x, so +£53.

Now if you must stay,you would watch, 17 spins 1 repeat, so a fast trot, countback shows its fast. Now the old brain will be screaming go for the repeat, but like i have said those 1x are getting more expensive to bet.
Now obviously we know whats going to happen, so lets assume you go for it, 16 L+17=33 L, those 2 bets have got no value now, so 18(*2) 36, so if it wins its 33+36=69 would give +3, so its best to leave with the early profit and restart.
KTF no betting for repeats, the larger number, who do you favour.


Okay safe old GUT no bets till 21st spin, but would you fancy going for the non-hit after 8 on the trot, as Winkel says if not sure then leave it alone, he could not make it any plainer.
So you would be watching the trot theres that word the trot, if adding score is to complicated then GUT is not for you. It might be easier to see the trot in the KTF column, as i say use both to make a decision.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 25, 07:40 AM 2016
24
18
18
33
3
4
5
12
24
20
----------
20
33
16
6
4
11
33
33
2
5
20
10
32
32
19
15
14
14
11
32
32
3
11
7
12
6
4
7
31
35

Look at those repeaters  :-[
Anyone wanna try ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Feb 25, 08:31 AM 2016
24
18
18
33
3
4
5
12
24
20
----------
20
33
16
6
4
11
33
33
2
5
20
10
32
32
19
15
14
14
11
32
32
3
11
7
12
6
4
7
31
35

Look at those repeaters  :-[
Anyone wanna try ?


Let’s have a look and see what happens when you use 2 streams of numbers instead of 1.
The second stream will just use the pocket distances going around the wheel clockwise.
Example: Number 32 to 15 is moving around clockwise 1 pocket.
Number 32 to 19 is moving around clockwise 2 pockets.
Number 32 to 0 is moving around clockwise 36 pockets.

So let’s look at those numbers and see what the second stream produces.
The * represents a repeat.

The first stream had 6 repeats.
The second stream only had 1 repeat.

As Notto and Winkel would say…..’’read the trot’’.



Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 25, 08:54 AM 2016
Hi denzie
Yes a RFH, so if you a watcher of the trot, countback shows 9 is late, so now you would start to bet, win. It shows 10 is due on spin 14, so you should have been watching only, 11 on countback is late so you could go for it, it depends on how you find the trot. So still just watching countback shows 12 is late, so in you go.
With watching the trot these should be no problem, remember grand master Winkel if not sure then dont bet.

Now to the plain old KTF betters, you would be nervous on this game,but we need to have  60 spins, these #'s are -3 at spin 40, we usually see at spin 60, 30 non-hit have come, so in the next 20 spins its a 50/50 trot,just like in reply 311, if we can have the 20 spins it could be bank roll is back to where we started or even plus.
I attach 3/1/16 sheet its not far of the same trot
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 25, 09:06 AM 2016
Does it recover +1 -1. ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 25, 09:14 AM 2016
at spin 40 its down, but like i said i'd play till spin 60, so we''ll never know.
Reply 311 in paddy power Game 2 at 40 its -3, look what happens, i explain my thoughts
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 25, 09:19 AM 2016
Also RG, paddypower is the mickey mouse roulette in uk an egm, programme, it goes either way, but you must watch the trot.
Dont think Wiggy likes them, but he has a mate who plays them
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 25, 10:02 AM 2016
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=14735.0
A good read
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 25, 11:14 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  KTF +53 #36

So as per usual the larger group of non-hit, hit more than the 1x, so +£53.

Now if you must stay,you would watch, 17 spins 1 repeat, so a fast trot, countback shows its fast. Now the old brain will be screaming go for the repeat, but like i have said those 1x are getting more expensive to bet.
Now obviously we know whats going to happen, so lets assume you go for it, 16 L+17=33 L, those 2 bets have got no value now, so 18(*2) 36, so if it wins its 33+36=69 would give +3, so its best to leave with the early profit and restart.
KTF no betting for repeats, the larger number, who do you favour.


Okay safe old GUT no bets till 21st spin, but would you fancy going for the non-hit after 8 on the trot, as Winkel says if not sure then leave it alone, he could not make it any plainer.
So you would be watching the trot theres that word the trot, if adding score is to complicated then GUT is not for you. It might be easier to see the trot in the KTF column, as i say use both to make a decision.

Only one repeat in the first 20 and 19 non hit.
That screams BET BET BET the repeaters.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 25, 12:19 PM 2016
24
18
18
33
3
4
5
12
24
20
----------
20
33
16
6
4
11
33
33
2
5
20
10
32
32
19
15
14
14
11
32
32
3
11
7
12
6
4
7
31
35

Look at those repeaters  :-[
Anyone wanna try ?

Using GUT and following the trot the attached sheet shows how I would have played it.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 25, 12:56 PM 2016
One question in red below:
Jackpot247.com  KTF +53 #36

So as per usual the larger group of non-hit, hit more than the 1x, so +£53.

Now if you must stay,you would watch, 17 spins 1 repeat, so a fast trot, countback shows its fast. Now the old brain will be screaming go for the repeat, but like i have said those 1x are getting more expensive to bet.
Now obviously we know whats going to happen, so lets assume you go for it, 16 L+17=33 L, those 2 bets have got no value now, so 18(*2) 36, so if it wins its 33+36=69 would give +3, so its best to leave with the early profit and restart.
KTF no betting for repeats, the larger number, who do you favour.
Of course you would bet the larger number. But one question when the repeaters go from 11 -> 19 should it not be in favor to bet the repeaters in that case? On your spin #20? Because after that the repeaters are more then the unhit..

Okay safe old GUT no bets till 21st spin, but would you fancy going for the non-hit after 8 on the trot, as Winkel says if not sure then leave it alone, he could not make it any plainer.
So you would be watching the trot theres that word the trot, if adding score is to complicated then GUT is not for you. It might be easier to see the trot in the KTF column, as i say use both to make a decision.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 25, 01:09 PM 2016
Tuddilue
KTF players would not see that as they would have moved.
But yes after spin 20 yes repeats has got to be the bet,
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 25, 01:37 PM 2016
Tuddilue
KTF players would not see that as they would have moved.
But yes after spin 20 yes repeats has got to be the bet,
Yes I understand that. Just that the more I read about the GUT and understand the difference between unhit and repeaters the more I see other opportunities. Thanks for your view on it!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 25, 06:08 PM 2016
In regards to this method of play what does 15/15 refer to
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 25, 08:13 PM 2016
and to add to my last ?, what is considered a bust? what is our stop loss
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 25, 09:46 PM 2016
Well I finally did it.
I signed up to play Euro roulette on our canadian government regulated website.
This is not a live dealer setup and I do not really like playing against software RNG but after checking into the system extensively I decided to give it a try.

Attached is my play sheet.
BR-$400

I had a beautiful count, I always hated calling it the trot, at spin #15  of 13 Unhit and only 2 repeaters coming in.
Here we go I thought and started betting on spin #16

At spin#20 I was up $73 and the count was still way in our favour of the repeats so I decided to go for 4 or 5 more wins.
At spin #26 I considered quitting but gave it one more try after all I was only risking $18 to make $54 and the odds were with me so I made the bet and won.

I quit on spin #27 with a profit of $271 in only 12 spins and a maximum bet of $56.

Now I have to say that with this setup there are no free spins so the first 15 spins were done with $1 on red and black so only the 0 would hurt me. Total risk to get the numbers was only $30 but still I hate placing a bet that can only break even or lose.
The one positive thing is that there is no time limit for betting.

If anybody else has experience with Canadian OLG Online roulette I would love to hear about any experiences they may have had.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 25, 09:48 PM 2016
congrats

awesome win

on the rng how did you get 10 spins? bet red and black 10 times?

sorry i re read and answered my question
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 26, 12:25 AM 2016
and to add to my last ?, what is considered a bust? what is our stop loss
I will try to answer your questions :
+1/-1 does it recovers?  Yes
Where did you see 15/15? Is it on a KTF sheet?
Stop loss? I'm using a bankroll of 400 and was expecting to stop when that blows. But it has never happened to me. At most I have been down 200 but it has always recovered. But I expect it to blow sometime  :wink:

If you have more questions just ask them!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 04:46 AM 2016
Topman Dave
Yes thats the annoying part having to pay for a number. Is it minimum unit $1, can it be split to .20 or .25 cent units.

So this is 14 unique with +1/-1, remove the hit unique.
Have you been testing this on numbers from the gov site, will you build a data base on this sites spins? is there a marquee of previous spins, where whilst collecting your spins, you could watch how those unique come in your spins, if say 8 of your spins, those already there have not hit, so could you not combine those spins together and bet for the repeat?

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 05:25 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  26.2.16  +£57 #35
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 26, 07:51 AM 2016
Good one!
I saw something I missed before in the first 10. If there are repeats you just go over them? In this you have 2 repeaters. I just waits to I have 10 unique, but this I think is wrong or?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 08:57 AM 2016
Yes tuddilue what evers left after the 10 you go with, nothing wrong waiting for 10, but you might miss 2 wins, then again you might get 2 repeats.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 26, 09:07 AM 2016
Yes tuddilue what evers left after the 10 you go with, nothing wrong waiting for 10, but you might miss 2 wins, then again you might get 2 repeats.
Yes when I goes through my old sheets I can see that mistake, that I miss 2 wins.

A little embarrassing but I learn and will start directly after 10 and not waiting for 10 unique.. :embarrassed:

Thanks for the confirmation!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Feb 26, 09:45 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  26.2.16  +£57 #35

Nottophammer,

Good Job on this.

Can you run your numbers after 35,  so 5, 6, 2 are the first 3 numbers...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 26, 11:22 AM 2016
@ Azim

Numbers are on the sheet:

0 0 27 34 24 6 33 27 6 2
12 1 7 3 21 35 5 6 2 32
36 9 28 16 0 15 16 0 6 11
31 14 34 30 4 15 24 9 18 6
24 9 0 22 8 1 12 8 14 22
32 11 28 16 2 2 32 11 32 27
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 26, 12:00 PM 2016
Nottophammer,

Good Job on this.

Can you run your numbers after 35,  so 5, 6, 2 are the first 3 numbers...

I know you referred your enquiry to Notto but I thought you may be interested in how I would have played it.
Remember that I am betting for the repeats to hit and then removing them using a +1/-1 progression.
This is not the KTF way.

I ran the complete sequence so that you could see all of the numbers had you continued to the end.
Based on the way the numbers were going I personally would have stopped at spin #27.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 26, 12:14 PM 2016
Anybody. Whats 15/15?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 26, 12:25 PM 2016
Topman Dave
Yes thats the annoying part having to pay for a number. Is it minimum unit $1, can it be split to .20 or .25 cent units.

So this is 14 unique with +1/-1, remove the hit unique.
Have you been testing this on numbers from the gov site, will you build a data base on this sites spins? is there a marquee of previous spins, where whilst collecting your spins, you could watch how those unique come in your spins, if say 8 of your spins, those already there have not hit, so could you not combine those spins together and bet for the repeat?

-notto

Yes it's $1 min bet so to obtain the initial sequence I need to bet $2 ie. ($1 Red+$1 Black)

I bet for previous repeats to hit so yes I am betting for 14 uniques with +1/-1 progression.

I did not do any testing but just played for the repeats as I would had I gone in to the B&M.
I do have a record of the spins but so far I have only played 1 game online.
I do plan to play another game there today but was not planning on posting a sheet for it unless I lost in which case I would have as a warning to others that this is still gambling and I have no doubts that I will lose sooner or later.
What do you mean by a database?

Yes there is a marquee and I am not sure what you mean in the area above I marked in red.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 26, 12:26 PM 2016
Anybody. Whats 15/15?

Where did you see it mentioned?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 01:36 PM 2016
Hi Celtic

Looks good that sheet, i'll spend sometime looking at it.

I've just come back from the bookies and both shops, all machines being used, some playing slots.
But theres one player doing his tank, a win from last week 2,000 mentioned, all gone now plus another 1500, smacking the machine,cursing no one wins etc,etc. Well you know what he is plasterer

Celtic,
okay that marquee, in the bookies we can have 10,11 or 12 previous numbers from the last player, so lets assume yours shows 15, like good casinos have.
Those 15 numbers can be unique to you as you have just arrived, now check to see if they have repeated. Now depending on how they repeat, if say it shows repeat at spin 2 and 6,then the last 9 are unique, as you collect your 1st 10 spins keep an eye on those 9 + yours to see if they have repeated, if you've had 6 spins that would make 15 unique, so you could bet for a repeat.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 26, 02:25 PM 2016
@ Azim

Numbers are on the sheet:

0 0 27 34 24 6 33 27 6 2
12 1 7 3 21 35 5 6 2 32
36 9 28 16 0 15 16 0 6 11
31 14 34 30 4 15 24 9 18 6
24 9 0 22 8 1 12 8 14 22
32 11 28 16 2 2 32 11 32 27

Azims asking to redo the sheet using the numbers in red above with KTF.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 02:33 PM 2016
But we dont carry on,we jump/restart on a new wheel
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 26, 02:46 PM 2016
Hi Celtic

Looks good that sheet, i'll spend sometime looking at it.

I've just come back from the bookies and both shops, all machines being used, some playing slots.
But theres one player doing his tank, a win from last week 2,000 mentioned, all gone now plus another 1500, smacking the machine,cursing no one wins etc,etc. Well you know what he is plasterer

Celtic,
okay that marquee, in the bookies we can have 10,11 or 12 previous numbers from the last player, so lets assume yours shows 15, like good casinos have.
Those 15 numbers can be unique to you as you have just arrived, now check to see if they have repeated. Now depending on how they repeat, if say it shows repeat at spin 2 and 6,then the last 9 are unique, as you collect your 1st 10 spins keep an eye on those 9 + yours to see if they have repeated, if you've had 6 spins that would make 15 unique, so you could bet for a repeat.

My experience with plasterers is that most of them have no clue what they are doing.
Here's a plasterer story for you.
Last week at the B&M I had one guy that was betting the even money bets and when I started to bet he saw me betting 14 numbers and he decided I was just throwing 14 chips out randomly. He started plastering with no plan in mind. I cashed out with about $100 win and he turned and blamed me for taking all the winning numbers off the wheel and actually expected me to reimburse him the $200+ he had lost so far. I told him to keep trying because his luck was bound to change and I got the hell out of there. Gotta laugh at some of these yahoos.

Thank you for the marquee explanation.

I still do not feel good about playing against online RNG software even though I have heard nothing negative about the OLG site in Canada.
I started a topic asking for feedback on the site but have not seen any replies yet.
I will play one more game later today and see what happens.

By the way did you notice Azim dropped in?
He requested that you re KTF the JJ 26/2/16 sheet starting about 17 numbers later.

I did it but did not post because I did not want you to feel that I was hijacking the thread.

-Celtic

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 03:02 PM 2016
Azim just done the red #'s and this is exactly why we leave with the +57, this why i say go to another table and start with 37 #'s that are due.
But Keep the Faith
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)	
0 37
1 5 36
2 6 35
3 2 34
4 32 33
5 36 32
6 9 31
7 28 30
8 16 29
9 0 28 stake
10 15 27 non-hit return
11 16 r 1 27 0 -27
12 0 r 2 54 0 -81
13 6 r 3 81 0 -162
14 11 26 4 108 144 -126
15 31 25 3 78 108 -96
16 14 24 2 50 72 -74
17 34 23 1 24 36 -62
18 30 22 1 23 36 -49
19 4 21 1 22 36 -35
20 15 r 1 21 0 -56
21 24 20 2 42 72 -26
22 9 r 1 20 0 -46
23 18 19 2 40 72 -14
24 6 r 1 19 0 -33
25 24 r 2 38 0 -71
26 9 r 3 57 0 -128
27 0 r 4 76 0 -204
28 22 18 5 95 180 -119
29 8 17 4 72 144 -47
30 1 16 3 51 108 10 stop
31 12 15 2 32 72 50
32 8
33 14
34 22
35 32
36 11
37 28
38 16
39 2
40 2
41 32
42 11
43 32
44 27
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 26, 03:47 PM 2016
See my comment in brown below...
My experience with plasterers is that most of them have no clue what they are doing.
Here's a plasterer story for you.
Last week at the B&M I had one guy that was betting the even money bets and when I started to bet he saw me betting 14 numbers and he decided I was just throwing 14 chips out randomly. He started plastering with no plan in mind. I cashed out with about $100 win and he turned and blamed me for taking all the winning numbers off the wheel and actually expected me to reimburse him the $200+ he had lost so far. I told him to keep trying because his luck was bound to change and I got the hell out of there. Gotta laugh at some of these yahoos.

Thank you for the marquee explanation.

I still do not feel good about playing against online RNG software even though I have heard nothing negative about the OLG site in Canada.
I started a topic asking for feedback on the site but have not seen any replies yet.
I will play one more game later today and see what happens.
I saw your topic but I have never played on that site. But I have played a lot on online sites. Nowadays I play most on bwin. My experience is that RNG is always difficult to beat. You get the feeling that they know what you are betting at and when you loose you can always blame on that feeling...

But when you are betting KTF you get more knowledge about what the RNG is doing. You are getting a feeling of safety. That you know what is happening and that they can't cheat you. Because if you see that they cheat you you can always leave and stop playing...

So my advice is to you try to play that RNG and see what the feeling is that you get. You have so much knowledge about KTF and GUT so they should have really hard time to cheat you... Come back and report after because it will be really interesting for us..  Best of luck now!   

By the way did you notice Azim dropped in?
He requested that you re KTF the JJ 26/2/16 sheet starting about 17 numbers later.

I did it but did not post because I did not want you to feel that I was hijacking the thread.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Feb 26, 03:52 PM 2016
Azim just done the red #'s and this is exactly why we leave with the +57, this why i say go to another table and start with 37 #'s that are due.
But Keep the Faith
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)	
0 37
1 5 36
2 6 35
3 2 34
4 32 33
5 36 32
6 9 31
7 28 30
8 16 29
9 0 28 stake
10 15 27 non-hit return
11 16 r 1 27 0 -27
12 0 r 2 54 0 -81
13 6 r 3 81 0 -162
14 11 26 4 108 144 -126
15 31 25 3 78 108 -96
16 14 24 2 50 72 -74
17 34 23 1 24 36 -62
18 30 22 1 23 36 -49
19 4 21 1 22 36 -35
20 15 r 1 21 0 -56
21 24 20 2 42 72 -26
22 9 r 1 20 0 -46
23 18 19 2 40 72 -14
24 6 r 1 19 0 -33
25 24 r 2 38 0 -71
26 9 r 3 57 0 -128
27 0 r 4 76 0 -204
28 22 18 5 95 180 -119
29 8 17 4 72 144 -47
30 1 16 3 51 108 10 stop
31 12 15 2 32 72 50
32 8
33 14
34 22
35 32
36 11
37 28
38 16
39 2
40 2
41 32
42 11
43 32
44 27
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60


The point I was trying to make for everyone was even after the 14/15 unique numbers, play KTF keeping the faith you will end up in a profit.

In this case the TV show started at 00 what if it had started with 5 6 2 or any other place on the number's.

Try and work the number's with every number as being the first number of the sequence.

Don't be greedy and stop at 50. Start again.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Feb 26, 04:11 PM 2016


I've just come back from the bookies and both shops, all machines being used, some playing slots.
But theres one player doing his tank, a win from last week 2,000 mentioned, all gone now plus another 1500, smacking the machine,cursing no one wins etc,etc. Well you know what he is plasterer



 :xd:  I call them Woody Woodpecker!!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 26, 04:26 PM 2016
Don't be greedy and stop at 50. Start again.

Greed and a small BR.
This is the casino's favourite combination for their player's to have.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: joiner29 on Feb 26, 05:19 PM 2016
Hi played KTF at sky vegas fun mode great results so deposited £40 and played for real 5p units stopping around 40-50 unit wins then restarting, went up to £49 then it was as if the software could tell what I was betting and it tanked. Maybe a warning to stay away from sky vegas, anybody recommend honest RNG sites
 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 26, 05:28 PM 2016
Joiner. Has happened to me too. Fun mode is fun. Real mode is not
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 26, 05:34 PM 2016
Yes I understand that. Just that the more I read about the GUT and understand the difference between unhit and repeaters the more I see other opportunities. Thanks for your view on it!

Ive just came down with a cough. Its like a HACK. I dont really want to HACK i hope i get better soon

The thing with humans is we seldom can keep secrets. We always somehow give ourselves away

I know what you have been doing

A little computer wiz huh?

1)Mr J's deleted emssages appear on vls
2) nathans messages deleted and who came to the rescue? you did
3) you sent me word for word a PM i sent someone else

You must be "smart" but not that smart

Yes i talked sh*t about you in a PM i have no problem admitting that

Piss off
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 05:56 PM 2016
Hi played KTF at sky vegas fun mode great results so deposited £40 and played for real 5p units stopping around 40-50 unit wins then restarting, went up to £49 then it was as if the software could tell what I was betting and it tanked. Maybe a warning to stay away from sky vegas, anybody recommend honest RNG sites
You stay on, just restarted another 10 spins? if thats the case, i would logged off, waited 30 minutes then started, in that time would if its RNG the programme moved on?
If you use the sheet i use did you write countback, I/some agree 15 non-hit in 30 spins is fair, so with countback you could see if it exaggerates runs of repeats.
At spins 11-20 the non-hit are the larger group, so 5 non-hit would be fair, but if say 3 non-hit,not fair, even on uk FOBT's i've seen only 3 non-hit, but that is very rare.
Have you looked in Jackpot joy average document, you can see the max spins for non-hit in 60 games, i'll put an up todate copy up, later
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 05:58 PM 2016
I'm posting something in Are there really 37 possible topic.
Thinking aloud, never know someone might save me some time.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Feb 26, 06:00 PM 2016
I have a non-rude RNG question, I honestly dont know the answer. Lets say 5 of you were playing at the same time, same table at the same RNG casino. Do you ALL have the SAME numbers at the same time?

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 06:03 PM 2016
Ken i can't answer as i only use the RNG in uk betting shops ( FOBT's)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 06:52 PM 2016
Up date on Jackpot spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 07:08 PM 2016
If you look in doc
in the max hit cells  G 81 to O81, if you drag over,you should see on task bar Average is 5, count is 9  and sum 45.

So if you was to bet for the non-hits  in G81-O81 using a 5 step progression, it would only be in columns m,n and o that you would lose, M 2L's, N 1L, O 1L
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: whoisthewomanme on Feb 26, 07:22 PM 2016
I have a non-rude RNG question, I honestly dont know the answer. Lets say 5 of you were playing at the same time, same table at the same RNG casino. Do you ALL have the SAME numbers at the same time?

Ken

Hi Ken,

The numbers would be different for each player unless it was considered one of the "multiplayer" RNG games.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Feb 26, 07:28 PM 2016
Hi Ken,

The numbers would be different for each player unless it was considered one of the "multiplayer" RNG games.

Different numbers is a dead give away for fraud against players. Places like C. Casino, everyone gets the SAME numbers. Hard to believe any fraud there and its a live wheel.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Wally Gator on Feb 26, 09:24 PM 2016
I know you referred your enquiry to Notto but I thought you may be interested in how I would have played it.
Remember that I am betting for the repeats to hit and then removing them using a +1/-1 progression.
This is not the KTF way.

I ran the complete sequence so that you could see all of the numbers had you continued to the end.
Based on the way the numbers were going I personally would have stopped at spin #27.

-Celtic

Celtic,

Wanted to ensure I'm understanding your play.  It appears you are waiting for 20 spins, begin +1/-1 play on spin 21 and then dropping each repeat as it wins.  You are also not adding new numbers to the mix.  Is that accurate?

Many thanks,

WG
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: whoisthewomanme on Feb 26, 11:10 PM 2016
Different numbers is a dead give away for fraud against players. Places like C. Casino, everyone gets the SAME numbers. Hard to believe any fraud there and its a live wheel.

Ken

How do you figure it is fraud against players? Everyone is playing their own individual game. Each spin the RNG software spits out a "random" number.

Now if it were a "multiplayer" RNG game where everyone is playing on the same wheel at the same time... it gives everyone the same number. If it gave different numbers in that situation, sure that would be fraud.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Feb 26, 11:40 PM 2016
Hi played KTF at sky vegas fun mode great results so deposited £40 and played for real 5p units stopping around 40-50 unit wins then restarting, went up to £49 then it was as if the software could tell what I was betting and it tanked. Maybe a warning to stay away from sky vegas, anybody recommend honest RNG sites

Sorry to hear about your loss.

I have a question for you:
You looking for an honest RNG, did you expect to buy a house with 40pounds?  You doubled up your bankroll by playing 5cent's
and you decided to keep playing.

Why can't you say you got GREEDY!!!!  Instead of saying that "the software could tell what I was betting and it tanked"?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 26, 11:55 PM 2016
Celtic,

Wanted to ensure I'm understanding your play.  It appears you are waiting for 20 spins, begin +1/-1 play on spin 21 and then dropping each repeat as it wins.  You are also not adding new numbers to the mix.  Is that accurate?

Many thanks,

WG

-Gator

What you say is true for that particular session.
Some things are constant in all my sessions and some are not.
Compare the session sheet you are referring to to the one in Post #335
In that session I started betting at spin #16.

Constant:
1. Playing for repeats to hit. (THIS IS NOT PLAYING THE KTF WAY)
2. Progression is normally +1/-1 (see below)
3. Any hit numbers are removed

Variables
1. Entry point to start betting - This is the toughest part of this and is based on Winkels GUT strategy, Nottos avg sheets, LOTT, and the explanations of these in the posts of Winkel, Azim, TwoCatsSam and Nottophammer. This has to be learned and I am by no means at a level of competencancy comparable to the above mentioned people but I do quite well and just keep moving forward.

2. If the progression is high, say at the seventh or eighth level, and I win a spin I may drop the progression right back to the 1st level if a new high is hit. Because the overall stakes are lower than KTF but the win amount is the same, it is possible to actually lose 3 spins in a row and be at a new high with a win on the next spin.

I hope this helps answer your question.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tacwell on Feb 27, 12:07 AM 2016
Sorry to hear about your loss.

I have a question for you:
You looking for an honest RNG, did you expect to buy a house with 40pounds?  You doubled up your bankroll by playing 5cent's
and you decided to keep playing.

Why can't you say you got GREEDY!!!!  Instead of saying that "the software could tell what I was betting and it tanked"?

£40 - £49 is nowhere near doubling his bankroll and by no means GREEDY. Not in my world anyway.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Feb 27, 12:08 AM 2016
@ Azim

Numbers are on the sheet:

0 0 27 34 24 6 33 27 6 2
12 1 7 3 21 35 5 6 2 32
36 9 28 16 0 15 16 0 6 11
31 14 34 30 4 15 24 9 18 6
24 9 0 22 8 1 12 8 14 22
32 11 28 16 2 2 32 11 32 27

I know what the number's are.

For those that are following this thread.
Instead of starting from 0 0 let's say you walk to the table in this case we log in online.

We see the number's :

35 5 6 2 32
36 9 28 16 0 15 16 0 6 11
31 14 34 30 4 15 24 9 18 6
24 9 0 22 8 1 12 8 14 22
32 11 28 16 2 2 32 11 32 27

Do the charting and see how you would have played that session.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Feb 27, 12:11 AM 2016
£40 - £49 is nowhere near doubling his bankroll and by no means GREEDY. Not in my world anyway.

Sorry I stand corrected.  However do the math 9pounds for 5pence is 180 unit's.
How many did you expect to make in that session? 

Requirement is 400 units so I give you you had 800 unit's the process is to stop after 50 unit's  u made 180 unit's what did you expect to make enough to go buy a house?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 27, 01:57 AM 2016
I know what the number's are.

For those that are following this thread.
Instead of starting from 0 0 let's say you walk to the table in this case we log in online.

We see the number's :

35 5 6 2 32
36 9 28 16 0 15 16 0 6 11
31 14 34 30 4 15 24 9 18 6
24 9 0 22 8 1 12 8 14 22
32 11 28 16 2 2 32 11 32 27

Do the charting and see how you would have played that session.

I  would have played KTF for the first 10 spins and quit at $50 profit and then bet for repeaters for 3 wins and another $70 profit.
Leave with total session profit of $120 in 15 spins.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: joiner29 on Feb 27, 02:22 AM 2016
Sorry you think I was greedy I played as per the rules as I see them 40- 50 unit win then leave that is £2-£2.50 win s wow so greedy
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 27, 03:53 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 27.2.16  KTF  +£50 #31
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 27, 04:15 AM 2016
-Gator

What you say is true for that particular session.
Some things are constant in all my sessions and some are not.
Compare the session sheet you are referring to to the one in Post #335
In that session I started betting at spin #16.

Constant:
1. Playing for repeats to hit. (THIS IS NOT PLAYING THE KTF WAY)
2. Progression is normally +1/-1 (see below)
3. Any hit numbers are removed

Variables
1. Entry point to start betting - This is the toughest part of this and is based on Winkels GUT strategy, Nottos avg sheets, LOTT, and the explanations of these in the posts of Winkel, Azim, TwoCatsSam and Nottophammer. This has to be learned and I am by no means at a level of competencancy comparable to the above mentioned people but I do quite well and just keep moving forward.

2. If the progression is high, say at the seventh or eighth level, and I win a spin I may drop the progression right back to the 1st level if a new high is hit. Because the overall stakes are lower than KTF but the win amount is the same, it is possible to actually lose 3 spins in a row and be at a new high with a win on the next spin.

I hope this helps answer your question.

-Celtic

Celts
its getting interesting, keep going, we are all interested,those 0X's then 1X's ain't they good
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 27, 07:59 AM 2016
Celts
its getting interesting, keep going, we are all interested,those 0X's then 1X's ain't they good

Could have played todays JJ numbers the same way but after winning on KTF I would have waited until spin#18 to go after the repeats

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 28, 06:16 AM 2016
Oooooowkay , back on topic.
This is probably one of the best method I've seen here. It's unbelievable how it keeps winning. And with progression and all those numbers.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 28, 06:37 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 28.2.16   KTF +53  #27

37th spin is 24th non-hit, if you now bet those 24,1X's, win, bet the 23,1X's,win, bet the 22,1X's win  +39

Early days with this,but looks good.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 28, 08:39 AM 2016
Some info ;
Betting on spin 11 ONLY for a unhit.
On 1400 rng sessions

Wins : 1080
Loss : 317

(Let's say a win is +9 and a loss is -28 on average )
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Feb 28, 09:05 AM 2016
Some info ;
Betting on spin 11 ONLY for a unhit.
On 1400 rng sessions

Wins : 1080
Loss : 317

(Let's say a win is +9 and a loss is -28 on average )

Not bad Denzie....roughly +0.6 of a unit every 11 spins is nothing to be sniffed at if it continues to hold up.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 28, 09:07 AM 2016
This from the avg doc, betting for the 11th non-hit, 65 games, win 51 1st spin,most spins todate 4 spins
Code: [Select]
11
1
1
1
1
1
1
2
1
1
1
1
3
1
2
1
1
1
1
1
1
1



3
1
2
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
2
3
1
1
1
1
3
1
4
1
1
1
1



1
3
1
1
2
3
1
1
2
1
1
1
2
1






65

4

1.338462

11

51
7
6
1
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 28, 09:12 AM 2016
Not bad Denzie....roughly +0.6 of a unit every 11 spins is nothing to be sniffed at if it continues to hold up.
If if if .... that's the million dollar question.

It's not every 11th spin though. I start a session with 10 virtual spins. Then bet on spin 11. Win or lose I keep clicking till spin 37 and do it again and again and. .... or simply refresh the session. So of course this is for rng only . Just thought I mention it ...maybe someone can help with rx ?  :)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 28, 09:16 AM 2016
This from the avg doc, betting for the 11th non-hit, 65 games, win 51 1st spin,most spins todate 4 spins
Code: [Select]
11
1
1
1
1
1
1
2
1
1
1
1
3
1
2
1
1
1
1
1
1
1



3
1
2
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
2
3
1
1
1
1
3
1
4
1
1
1
1



1
3
1
1
2
3
1
1
2
1
1
1
2
1






65

4

1.338462

11

51
7
6
1

That's around + 100 flat betting
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Feb 28, 09:24 AM 2016


It's not every 11th spin though. I start a session with 10 virtual spins. Then bet on spin 11. Win or lose I keep clicking till spin 37 and do it again and again and. ....


Cheers Denzie.....kind of like allowing the cycle to reset itself. That's interesting, I suppose you could decide not to bet if their were too many repeats in the first 10 spins. Could be an indicator that the repeats are too 'hot'. Alternatively....10 straight uniques and it's maybe a good sign.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 28, 09:31 AM 2016
Cheers Denzie.....kind of like allowing the cycle to reset itself. That's interesting, I suppose you could decide not to bet if their were too many repeats in the first 10 spins. Could be an indicator that the repeats are too 'hot'. Alternatively....10 straight uniques and it's maybe a good sign.

Yep, it's about those cycles.  But it's probably just coz my feeling tell me to play that way .

About those repeaters. ..if we get 8 -9-10 non-hits in our 10 spins...it doesn't make much difference. I've tested that too. But at the end 9 non-hit came out as the winner.

Of course it needs much more testing. After all. ...what is 1000 or 10000 spins in roulette?  We've seen many systems crash after that many spins.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 29, 04:44 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 29.2.16  KTF  +44 #4

Another month gone
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 05:06 AM 2016
This just keeps on winning. Can you send that one losing session please?  I would like to take a look at it.

As for me , I'm testing that bet on 11th spin thing. Just curious how it does on the long run.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 29, 06:53 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 29.2.16  KTF  +44 #4

Another month gone
Impressive!  Do you do something special when it is new month? I mean do you restart your avg document? For example..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 29, 06:54 AM 2016
This just keeps on winning. Can you send that one losing session please?  I would like to take a look at it.

As for me , I'm testing that bet on 11th spin thing. Just curious how it does on the long run.
Can you send the losing session to me as well? Or put it up on the forum?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: joiner29 on Feb 29, 06:56 AM 2016
Hi noto could you tell me what table you play at jackpot joy
Joiner29
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: joiner29 on Feb 29, 06:57 AM 2016
Sorry Jackpot247
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 29, 07:41 AM 2016
Sorry Jackpot247

Joiner, all i know is i tape the programme on sky 178, ITV. Its aired after midnight, oh yeah its an airball machine, when it goes off air i understand you can still use the same wheel.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 29, 07:44 AM 2016
tuddilue Here they are
jackpotjoy 22.1.16
33
33
25
3
23
1
14
22
2
23
34
31
1
1
7
2
16
22
5
5
16
22
19
20
7
30
34
20
22
33
12
36
27
14
4
4
24
1
11
35
14
26
11
30
24
5
1
0
33
13
3
30
30
4
16
24
4
26
29
27
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 29, 07:58 AM 2016
tuddilue Here they are
jackpotjoy 22.1.16
33
33
25
3
23
1
14
22
2
23
34
31
1
1
7
2
16
22
5
5
16
22
19
20
7
30
34
20
22
33
12
36
27
14
4
4
24
1
11
35
14
26
11
30
24
5
1
0
33
13
3
30
30
4
16
24
4
26
29
27
Thanks! I will play them later today and see how it goes!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 08:53 AM 2016
Yeah the original KTF gets a serious beating here. I like to wait first to see what's happening. This session I wouldn't bet.

I only bet when one side is really dominant. Then I bet the other side. If they go side by side as here I wouldn't bet. But that's coz on rng it's fast to get our spins.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 08:56 AM 2016
Some info ;
Betting on spin 11 ONLY for a unhit.
On 1400 rng sessions

Wins : 1080
Loss : 317

(Let's say a win is +9 and a loss is -28 on average )

1800 sessions
Wins 1382
Loss 415
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 29, 09:15 AM 2016
This game lost way back. A few places to stop with a smaller loss than i showed of 655. But the idea is to KEEP THE FAITH with the +1/-1
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 33 36
2 33 r
3 25 35
4 3 34
5 23 33
6 1 32
7 14 31
8 22 30
9 2 29 stake
10 23 r non-hit return
11 34 28 1 29 36 7
12 31 27 1 28 36 15
13 1 r 1 27 0 -12
14 1 r 2 54 0 -66
15 7 26 3 81 108 -39
16 2 r 2 52 0 -91
17 16 25 3 78 108 -61
18 22 r 2 50 0 -111
19 5 24 3 75 108 -78
20 5 r 2 48 0 -126
21 16 r 3 72 0 -198
22 22 r 4 96 0 -294
23 19 23 5 120 180 -234
24 20 22 4 92 144 -182
25 7 r 3 66 0 -248
26 30 21 4 88 144 -192
27 34 r 3 63 0 -255
28 20 r 4 84 0 -339
29 22 r 5 105 0 -444
30 33 r 6 126 0 -570
31 12 20 7 147 252 -465
32 36 19 6 120 216 -369
33 27 18 5 95 180 -284
34 14 r 4 72 0 -356
35 4 17 5 90 180 -266
36 4 r 4 68 0 -334
37 24 16 5 85 180 -239
38 1 r 4 64 0 -303
39 11 15 5 80 180 -203
40 35 14 4 60 144 -119
41 14 r 3 42 0 -161
42 26 13 4 56 144 -73
43 11 r 3 39 0 -112
44 30 r 4 52 0 -164
45 24 r 5 65 0 -229
46 5 r 6 78 0 -307
47 1 r 7 91 0 -398
48 0 12 8 104 288 -214
49 33 r 7 84 0 -298
50 13 11 8 96 288 -106
51 3 r 7 77 0 -183
52 30 r 8 88 0 -271
53 30 r 9 99 0 -370
54 4 r 10 110 0 -480
55 16 r 11 121 0 -601
56 24 r 12 132 0 -733
57 4 r 13 143 0 -876
58 26 r 14 154 0 -1030
59 29 10 15 165 540 -655
60 27

Look where you could have stopped, spin 40, it has got exactly the 15 non-hit in 30 spins. Damage was done in spins 21-30 only 3 non-hit. Countback idea, that weren't about yet, shows the story.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 29, 09:17 AM 2016
The actual sheet is in jackpot joy 1st 12#'s in x spins reply 69 real roulette spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 10:28 AM 2016
Damn , I've should had taken the early wins

26
22
3
17
28
20
0
10
28
34
------------
19
22
31
1
1
23
11
33
1
21
1
11
28
1
34
34
31
15
24
13
9
13
4
17
9
18
26
20
3
32
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 10:35 AM 2016
This game lost way back. A few places to stop with a smaller loss than i showed of 655. But the idea is to KEEP THE FAITH with the +1/-1

After we almost recover. ...sometimes it's better to take a small loss. We know we get it back in our next sessions.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 29, 10:55 AM 2016
Im very cautious

When i try this real money im done after 2 losses. If i lose 11 and 12 im done

Ime goin for the early wins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 29, 11:08 AM 2016
This game lost way back. A few places to stop with a smaller loss than i showed of 655. But the idea is to KEEP THE FAITH with the +1/-1
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 33 36
2 33 r
3 25 35
4 3 34
5 23 33
6 1 32
7 14 31
8 22 30
9 2 29 stake
10 23 r non-hit return
11 34 28 1 29 36 7
12 31 27 1 28 36 15
13 1 r 1 27 0 -12
14 1 r 2 54 0 -66
15 7 26 3 81 108 -39
16 2 r 2 52 0 -91
17 16 25 3 78 108 -61
18 22 r 2 50 0 -111
19 5 24 3 75 108 -78
20 5 r 2 48 0 -126
21 16 r 3 72 0 -198
22 22 r 4 96 0 -294
23 19 23 5 120 180 -234
24 20 22 4 92 144 -182
25 7 r 3 66 0 -248
26 30 21 4 88 144 -192
27 34 r 3 63 0 -255
28 20 r 4 84 0 -339
29 22 r 5 105 0 -444
30 33 r 6 126 0 -570
31 12 20 7 147 252 -465
32 36 19 6 120 216 -369
33 27 18 5 95 180 -284
34 14 r 4 72 0 -356
35 4 17 5 90 180 -266
36 4 r 4 68 0 -334
37 24 16 5 85 180 -239
38 1 r 4 64 0 -303
39 11 15 5 80 180 -203
40 35 14 4 60 144 -119
41 14 r 3 42 0 -161
42 26 13 4 56 144 -73
43 11 r 3 39 0 -112
44 30 r 4 52 0 -164
45 24 r 5 65 0 -229
46 5 r 6 78 0 -307
47 1 r 7 91 0 -398
48 0 12 8 104 288 -214
49 33 r 7 84 0 -298
50 13 11 8 96 288 -106
51 3 r 7 77 0 -183
52 30 r 8 88 0 -271
53 30 r 9 99 0 -370
54 4 r 10 110 0 -480
55 16 r 11 121 0 -601
56 24 r 12 132 0 -733
57 4 r 13 143 0 -876
58 26 r 14 154 0 -1030
59 29 10 15 165 540 -655
60 27

Look where you could have stopped, spin 40, it has got exactly the 15 non-hit in 30 spins. Damage was done in spins 21-30 only 3 non-hit. Countback idea, that weren't about yet, shows the story.

This is how I would have played it and how I would have been thinking during the session.

After the first 10 spins I would not have played KTF until I saw more spins.
After spin#12 we have an overall count of 10+3 and I am starting to lean towards betting repeats but still want more spins.
After spin#14 count is 10+1 and I am still thinking to bet repeats but still not convinced to start betting so wait.
The next 6 spins are choppy and after spin #20 the overall count is 13+3. To me looking even better to bet repeats but at this point I would still wait to see which way this os going to go.
Spin 21 and 22 are repeats and overall count is 13+1 lets see what happens to notto's 15 in 30 average in the next few spins is what I am thinking.
After next two spins the 15 in 30 average on nottos sheets has been met and I would have started to bet the repeats and looked for 3-4 wins starting at spin 25

Spin 25 wins 26 loses and the next 4 win.
Because of all the drama to this point I would have quit at spin 28 which would have been the third win for a profit of $62
If I continue:
Spin 29 wins for a profit of $84
Spin 30 wins for a profit of  $107

This where you have to curtail the greed monster and why I would have quit at the third win.

I hope this is informative to some.

-Celtic


 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 29, 11:11 AM 2016
This is how I would have played it and more importantly how I would have been thinking during the session.

After the first 10 spins I would not have played KTF until I saw more spins.
After spin#12 we have an overall count of 10+3 and I am starting to lean towards betting repeats but still want more spins.
After spin#14 count is 10+1 and I am still thinking to bet repeats but still not convinced to start betting so wait.
The next 6 spins are choppy and after spin #20 the overall count is 13+3. To me looking even better to bet repeats but at this point I would still wait to see which way this os going to go.
Spin 21 and 22 are repeats and overall count is 13+1 lets see what happens to notto's 15 in 30 average in the next few spins is what I am thinking.
After next two spins the 15 in 30 average on nottos sheets has been met and I would have started to bet the repeats and looked for 3-4 wins starting at spin 25

Spin 25 wins 26 loses and the next 4 win.
Because of all the drama to this point I would have quit at spin 28 which would have been the third win for a profit of $62
If I continue:
Spin 29 wins for a profit of $84
Spin 30 wins for a profit of  $107

This where you have to curtail the greed monster and why I would have quit at the third win.

I hope this is informative to some.

-Celtic

Celtic why would u wait for more spins before playing ktf after spin 10
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 29, 11:14 AM 2016
Damn , I've should had taken the early wins

26
22
3
17
28
20
0
10
28
34
------------
19
22
31
1
1
23
11
33
1
21
1
11
28
1
34
34
31
15
24
13
9
13
4
17
9
18
26
20
3
32

Are these numbers from one of your recent sessions?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 12:11 PM 2016
Yes , from today on Unibet RNG
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 29, 12:48 PM 2016
Code: [Select]
Date 	         win	lose 	total
23.12.15 56
24.12.15 93
27.12.15 57
28.12.15 52
29.12.15 45
30.12.15 50
31.12.15 50
02.01.16 56
03.01.16 65
04.01.16 57
05.01.16 45
06.01.16 51
07.01.16 50
08.01.16 59
09.01.16 45
10.01.16 47
11.01.16 49
12.01.16 51
13.01.16 50
14.01.16 59
15.01.16 45
16.01.16 45
17.01.16 50
18.01.16 45
19.01.16 38
20.01.16 43
21.01.16 45 1398
22.01.16 655
23.01.16 52
24.01.16 50
25.01.16 38
26.01.16 50
27.01.16 38
28.01.16 57
29.01.16 48
30.01.16 54
31.01.16 56
01.02.16 46
02.02.16 51
03.02.16 45
04.02.16 54
05.02.16 46
06.02.16 39
07.02.16 45
08.02.16 42
09.02.16 44
10.02.16 53
11.02.16 34
12.02.16 38
13.02.16 47
14.02.16 45
15.02.16 50
16.02.16 59
17.02.16 45
18.02.16 56
19.02.16 29
20.02.16 59
21.02.16 45
22.02.16 66
23.02.16 38
24.02.16 51
25.02.16 53
26.02.16 57
27.02.16 50
28.02.16 53
29.02.16 44





        3225 655 2570
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 29, 12:53 PM 2016
Yes , from today on Unibet RNG

-Dennie

If you run the numbers you will see that after spin #18 you the overall count is 15+2 so using Nottos 15 unhits in 30 spins this should be a flag that repeats should come very soon.

I love ones like this because your stake is only $15 and covers the Zero and you recover so much faster when you lose a spin.
Start betting on repeats at Spin #19 and this is what would have happened.

Code: [Select]
S	#	R	Bet	P	Stake	Won	Net	Total
19 1 R 15 1 15 36 21 21
20 21 14 1 14 -14 7
21 1 14 2 28 -28 -21
22 11 R 14 3 42 108 66 45
23 28 R 13 2 26 72 46 91
24 1 12 1 12 -12 79
25 34 R 12 2 24 72 48 127
26 34 11 1 11 -11 116
27 31 R 11 2 22 72 50 166
28 15 10 1 10 -10 156
29 24 10 2 20 -20 136
30 13 10 3 30 -30 106

I usually quit after 3 wins when betting repeats but the count is so good I would have gone for 4 wins, in this case +$127.00 but even the third win would have given you +$91.

So many ways to think about this one.
Just do not get greedy.

It would have been interesting to have more numbers and see how this one progressed.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 01:08 PM 2016
Celtic ,

Your way of playing this seems to do very good. How many sessions did you play like this ? Big dd?  Highest progression level ?

 :)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 29, 01:40 PM 2016
Celtic ,

Your way of playing this seems to do very good. How many sessions did you play like this ? Big dd?  Highest progression level ?

 :)

Sometimes I think too good and am just waiting for a RFH.

As I said last week right now I am only playing for repeats and I have played in total maybe 12 - 15 sessions like this.
I've had progression levels to about 8 and DDs to $250 but that is rare because the stakes are lower than KTF and you recover a lot faster because of this.

As an example: On the JJ from hell that Notto posted earlier today from January 22  betting repeats the max drawdown was $32 and the maximum progression level was only 2. Look at post #406

As you know the MAIN trick is know when to start betting.
This I seem to be either quite good at or very very lucky.

You have to be careful of the greed factor and that was how I got to level 8 as mentioned above.
I did not lose the session but pissed away a few hundred dollars and I had already won about 7 times at that point.
I only aim for three wins when betting repeats but if the numbers are good, like in your case, I will go for 4, 5 maximum.

Hope this helps.

-Celtic

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 01:54 PM 2016
I'll post a session in a bit where I've got a ton of non - hitters. ...... very curious how you handle them.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 29, 02:06 PM 2016
Celtic when you play for repeats do you wait for a certain nunber of uniques?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 02:42 PM 2016
Ok here it is. Also a real session on Unibet.
Celtic....

23
25
8
19
28
26
12
33
34
3
-------------
9
23  r
36
10
9    r
18
5
31
11
26   r
1
8     r
21
13
3     r
17
16
27
14
31   r
2
4
14   r
20
26   r
20   r
30
11   r
7
24
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 29, 05:01 PM 2016
If you played just non-hit +56 #11
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 29, 06:05 PM 2016
Code: [Select]
Date 	         win	lose 	total
23.12.15 56
24.12.15 93
27.12.15 57
28.12.15 52
29.12.15 45
30.12.15 50
31.12.15 50
02.01.16 56
03.01.16 65
04.01.16 57
05.01.16 45
06.01.16 51
07.01.16 50
08.01.16 59
09.01.16 45
10.01.16 47
11.01.16 49
12.01.16 51
13.01.16 50
14.01.16 59
15.01.16 45
16.01.16 45
17.01.16 50
18.01.16 45
19.01.16 38
20.01.16 43
21.01.16 45 1398
22.01.16 655
23.01.16 52
24.01.16 50
25.01.16 38
26.01.16 50
27.01.16 38
28.01.16 57
29.01.16 48
30.01.16 54
31.01.16 56
01.02.16 46
02.02.16 51
03.02.16 45
04.02.16 54
05.02.16 46
06.02.16 39
07.02.16 45
08.02.16 42
09.02.16 44
10.02.16 53
11.02.16 34
12.02.16 38
13.02.16 47
14.02.16 45
15.02.16 50
16.02.16 59
17.02.16 45
18.02.16 56
19.02.16 29
20.02.16 59
21.02.16 45
22.02.16 66
23.02.16 38
24.02.16 51
25.02.16 53
26.02.16 57
27.02.16 50
28.02.16 53
29.02.16 44





        3225 655 2570

very nice notto

question: on all the wins you have there, not including the big 600 loss, what was the largest draw down?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 29, 09:46 PM 2016
Ok here it is. Also a real session on Unibet.
Celtic....

23
25
8
19
28
26
12
33
34
3
-------------
9
23  r
36
10
9    r
18
5
31
11
26   r
1
8     r
21
13
3     r
17
16
27
14
31   r
2
4
14   r
20
26   r
20   r
30
11   r
7
24



-Dennie

OK-Remember I am betting for repeats.
Notto already posted re winning with KTF at spin #19.

Betting for repeats I notice at spin 17 the overall count is 15+3 so I will start betting for repeats starting at spin 18 and see how the count progresses.

At spin #25 I would have quit with +63 because I have my 3 wins and I do not like how choppy the flow is.

If you look closely you will see a total of 8 bets consisting of 5 losses and only three wins.
Maximum risk was $96
Where else can you lose more than you win and still come out ahead.

If you run the numbers for KTF you will have seven wins and 2 losses and place 9 bets with a maximum of $71 at risk.

As I said earlier with your first set of numbers it would have been nice to have more numbers because the main repeat run has not started yet and I am sure that I would have hung around and waited for the little buggers.

Also if you were really adventuresome you could have run KTF  from spin #11 and then continued with betting the repeats but I warn you it is stressful doing it that way. I have done it once or twice but you have watch the count like a hawk and play accordingly.

Code: [Select]

S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
18 31 16 1 16 -16 -16
19 11 16 2 32 -32 -48
20 26 R 16 3 48 108 60 12
21 1 15 1 15 -15 -3
22 8 R 15 2 30 72 42 39
23 21 14 1 14 -14 25
24 13 14 2 28 -28 -3
25 3 R 14 3 42 108 66 63


-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 29, 10:08 PM 2016
Celtic when you play for repeats do you wait for a certain nunber of uniques?

-RG

I am not sure how to explain it.

I just follow the count, or trot as Winkel calls it in GUT, and look at the avg sheets that Notto has kept updated and posted.
When the count is favourable I start betting for repeats.

I do not want to scare you off but I would have to say that I have spent at least the better part of 100 hours studying Don't Knock It, Jackpot Joy, GUT, and several other related topics to get to where I am now and feel confident in winning.

This is still the only way I am playing and I am not interested in trying other methods/systems or strategies when playing with real money.

-Celtic


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 29, 10:22 PM 2016
Celtic why would u wait for more spins before playing ktf after spin 10

I do not like the count at 10/8. It's just my thing that I do not like 20% of my inital working numbers to be repeats.
If you were playing for repeats you would never start betting at spin 11 but then again repeats are not KTF but an alternative if the count shows it is advantageous.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 01, 07:13 AM 2016
Well loaded plenty of games and info, only going to put the numbers up now.
If you do them on the sheet spins 58 to 61, Hmm
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 1.3.16
1 32
2 3
3 17
4 9
5 30
6 4
7 29
8 13
9 22
10 6
11 29
12 22
13 2
14 14
15 31
16 22
17 1
18 23
19 12
20 25
21 7
22 18
23 28
24 22
25 2
26 27
27 26
28 26
29 24
30 19
31 21
32 15
33 7
34 32
35 15
36 29
37 19
38 13
39 34
40 26
41 35
42 13
43 22
44 13
45 2
46 26
47 21
48 16
49 26
50 26
51 25
52 0
53 29
54 13
55 25
56 11
57 32
58 20
59 5
60 36

61 33
62 18
63 3
64 21
65 35
66 3
67 35
68 23
69 5
70 23
71 5
72 21
73 30
74 18
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 01, 07:36 AM 2016

After spin#12 we have an overall count of 10+3 and I am starting to lean towards betting repeats but still want more spins.
After spin#14 count is 10+1 and I am still thinking to bet repeats but still not convinced to start betting so wait.
The next 6 spins are choppy and after spin #20 the overall count is 13+3.
Spin 21 and 22 are repeats and overall count is 13+1
After next two spins the 15 in 30 average on nottos sheets has been met and I would have started to bet the repeats and looked for 3-4 wins starting at spin 25



-Celtic

Hey Celtic,

Few members are bit shy to ask it in the open.... they understand how you count the non-hit. But they don't understand how you count the repeaters. As for myself I'm having doubts too if I look at your sheets a few pages back vs your latest.

I keep it simple though. I did 3 sessions this morning going for the repeaters. The recovery is amazing.  But it's rng and I'm not going in if I get for example 15/9. I prefer around 15/1-2-3-4. On rng it takes 5 minutes and I got the right session to start.

Didn't bust a sweat.

Denzie
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 01, 08:04 AM 2016
Well loaded plenty of games and info, only going to put the numbers up now.
If you do them on the sheet spins 58 to 61, Hmm
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 1.3.16
1 32
2 3
3 17
4 9
5 30
6 4
7 29
8 13
9 22
10 6
11 29
12 22
13 2
14 14
15 31
16 22
17 1
18 23
19 12
20 25
21 7
22 18
23 28
24 22
25 2
26 27
27 26
28 26
29 24
30 19
31 21
32 15
33 7
34 32
35 15
36 29
37 19
38 13
39 34
40 26
41 35
42 13
43 22
44 13
45 2
46 26
47 21
48 16
49 26
50 26
51 25
52 0
53 29
54 13
55 25
56 11
57 32
58 20
59 5
60 36

61 33
62 18
63 3
64 21
65 35
66 3
67 35
68 23
69 5
70 23
71 5
72 21
73 30
74 18

For ktf it's an easy one.
For repeaters I choose to go in after spin 18. Well that was a bumpy ride. At the end I made it though. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 01, 10:55 AM 2016
@ Celticknits

10 sessions played today  (rng)
+42
+79
+65
+79
+69
+48
+32
+42
+63
+85

From what I'm seeing it's best to wait till spin 18 to go in. Anything more early seems to get me 1 loss. I'll post it. Bit curious how you would handle this one.

11
31
21
3
36
8
27
25
13
28
------------ 10/0
35
0
24
18
26
6
5
2  --------- after this I go in
26   R
21   R
30
20
28   R
7
17
10
3      R
34
16
10    R
12
23
15
36    R
19
12    R
22
14
31    R
2      R
19    R
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 01, 11:12 AM 2016
denzie
looking good,nice profit
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 01, 11:24 AM 2016
denzie
looking good,nice profit

It's all thx to you and Celticknits.
These results are going for repeaters.
But my other ktf comes out winning too.

So big  :thumbsup: to you guys
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 01, 01:29 PM 2016
@ Celticknits

...........................
From what I'm seeing it's best to wait till spin 18 to go in. Anything more early seems to get me 1 loss. I'll post it. Bit curious how you would handle this one.
......................................................

Be careful and don't set anything in stone.
If you are only taking about spin #18 in this session fine.
The count should always be your guide.

I would have started betting in this session at spin #16 because of the 15 prior uniques in a row and using Nottos avg sheet as a guide.

Code: [Select]
S	 #	R	Bet	P	Stake	Won	Net	Total
16  6 15 1 15 -15 -15
17   5 15 2 30 -30 -45
18   2 15 3 45 -45 -90     Not to worry yet
19  26 R 15 4 60 144 84 -6
20 21 R 14 3 42 108 66 60  New High Note the recovery in two wins. Made back the $90 + $60 extra.
21  30 13 1 13 -13 47  Reset P to 1
22 20 13 2 26 -26 21
23 28 R 13 3 39 108 69 90   Quit
24   7 12 1 12 -12 78
25 17 12 2 24 -24 54
26 10 12 3 36 -36 18
27 3 R 12 4 48 144 96 114

My personal rule is go for three wins and then depending on the count maybe 4.
In this case I would quit after 3 wins because the count is so ridiculous and I just don't trust going for 4 wins
In this case I would have made $24 more. Not worth it in my opinion and GREED WILL KILL YOU!!!!

I do not ever remember seeing 26 unhit/uniques in thirty spins on Nottos JJ sheets.

With 5 losses and only three wins to make back the losses and get a $90 profit I do not understand why more people are not doing this.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 01, 01:37 PM 2016
It's all thx to you and Celticknits.
These results are going for repeaters.
But my other ktf comes out winning too.

So big  :thumbsup: to you guys

Thank you for the compliment.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 01, 01:38 PM 2016
You start on spin 15. Then you get 3 losses. So you don't count those 3 nrs to your bets?
Spin 16 : bet 15nrs
Spin 17 : bet 16nrs
Spin 18 : bet 17nrs

 :o
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 01, 02:11 PM 2016
@ Denzie

Are you also taking off hit numbers as Celtic do?
And you are not betting on newcomers as candidates for repeat?

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 01, 02:24 PM 2016
You start on spin 15. Then you get 3 losses. So you don't count those 3 nrs to your bets?
Spin 16 : bet 15nrs
Spin 17 : bet 16nrs
Spin 18 : bet 17nrs

 :o

I start betting on spin #16 not 15 and just play.
Yes the first 3 spins are losses but look at the recovery.
Those three numbers ARE NOT added to the mix the way I play it.
I'll do another chart for you and show you why shortly.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 01, 02:28 PM 2016
@ Denzie

Are you also taking off hit numbers as Celtic do?
Yes, this I do also. In the beginning when I start playing it I've got little scared as the ones I toke off start to show. But till today it wasn't a problem.


And you are not betting on newcomers as candidates for repeat? This I did different. Celtic does not do that. If I understand him correctly. So I will not do that anymore and see how it goes. But all my sessions was played with adding newcomers.



What I also do...same as Celticknits. ...if we in a new high or we almost recovered then I reset the progression to 1 unit. This is a very important move. That keeps a possible bust far away.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 01, 02:32 PM 2016
I start betting on spin #16 not 15 and just play.
Yes the first 3 spins are losses but look at the recovery.
Those three numbers ARE NOT added to the mix the way I play it.
I'll do another chart for you and show you why shortly.

-Celtic

Ooo I mean on spin 16. But I'm very curious why you not add those...this I did "wrong".

Thanks for the help. This forum could use more guys like you. Respect!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 01, 02:47 PM 2016
You start on spin 15. Then you get 3 losses. So you don't count those 3 nrs to your bets?
Spin 16 : bet 15nrs
Spin 17 : bet 16nrs
Spin 18 : bet 17nrs

 :o

-Denzie

Look what happens if I add the three losses as they happen.
You still win but their additional  betting costs has taken it's toll and if you had decided to go for 4 wins you would have made less that  the 3 wins. Look at the numbers  and you will see that one of the ones you added in would not have not paid off until spin #40 and hopefully you would have finished way before that.

Code: [Select]
S	#	R	Bet	P	Stake	Won	Net	Total
16 6 15 1 15 -15 -15
17 5 16 2 32 -32 -47
18 2 17 3 51 -51 -98
19 26 R 18 4 72 144 72 -26
20 21 R 17 3 51 108 57 31
21 30 16 1 16 -16 15
22 20 16 2 32 -32 -17
23 28 R 16 3 48 108 60 43
24 7 15 1 15 -15 28
25 17 15 2 30 -30 -2
26 10 15 3 45 -45 -47
27 3 R 15 4 60 144 84 37


I hope this helps illustrate why I did not add the losses on.

-celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 01, 02:52 PM 2016
Thanks C&D, nice info!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 01, 02:54 PM 2016
Alright,  got it. That's why some of my sessions are more grinders then yours.
Tomorrow I will redo my old sessions and see how that goes .

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 01, 03:04 PM 2016
Alright,  got it. That's why some of my sessions are more grinders then yours.
Tomorrow I will redo my old sessions and see how that goes .

 :thumbsup:

Always glad to help you.

I think a lot of the time we get ourselves into trouble by overthinking things and start to think things like...."What would happen if I just tried this one small little change".

Usually SH...T happens right.

We are all human and I have caught myself thinking this way when playing but fortunately I have always realized that there was not reason to make any changes.
Next time you think of changing something what you do is make a note of what you wanted to change and then finish the session normally.
After work out on paper what would have happened if you had made that change.

By the way those numbers were crazy and I now appreciate more than ever play on a live wheel.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 01, 03:08 PM 2016
Thanks C&D, nice info!

You are welcome.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 01, 03:59 PM 2016
Always glad to help you.

I think a lot of the time we get ourselves into trouble by overthinking things and start to think things like...."What would happen if I just tried this one small little change".

Usually SH...T happens right.correct

We are all human and I have caught myself thinking this way when playing but fortunately I have always realized that there was not reason to make any changes.
Next time you think of changing something what you do is make a note of what you wanted to change and then finish the session normally.
After work out on paper what would have happened if you had made that change.Good advice, try the idea at home on paper with old data

By the way those numbers were crazy and I now appreciate more than ever play on a live wheel.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 01, 04:00 PM 2016
Alright,  got it. That's why some of my sessions are more grinders then yours.
Tomorrow I will redo my old sessions and see how that goes .yes ,keep old games for testing

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 01, 04:06 PM 2016
Back from the town  under an hour
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 01, 04:09 PM 2016
Oh yeah .25p units in Lads and .20p units in coral
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Wally Gator on Mar 01, 05:51 PM 2016
Back from the town  under an hour

On spin 39, is that a 10 unit bet, then a 5 unit and then another 10 unit?  Different progression?

Great work on this Notto.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 02, 04:47 AM 2016
As i'm still recording jackpot.247 for the numbers to build the avg doc, as i was marking the numbers on the sheet, i could see in spins 11-20, it was going to be a good example of KEEP THE FAITH.
There was just short of 3 hours game play, so enough to see if the second game could get the win.
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)		
0 37
1 15 36
2 33 35
3 29 34
4 19 33
5 34 32
6 23 31
7 8 30
8 36 29
9 28 28 stake
10 24 27 non-hit return
11 17 26 1 27 36 9
12 30 25 1 26 36 19
13 36 r 1 25 0 -6
14 19 r 2 50 0 -56
15 30 r 3 75 0 -131
16 31 24 4 100 144 -87
17 15 r 3 72 0 -159
18 34 r 4 96 0 -255
19 6 23 5 120 180 -195
20 15 r 4 92 0 -287
21 17 r 5 115 0 -402
22 21 22 6 138 216 -324
23 17 r 5 110 0 -434
24 1 21 6 132 216 -350
25 24 r 5 105 0 -455
26 20 20 6 126 216 -365
27 14 19 5 100 180 -285
28 26 18 4 76 144 -217
29 4 17 3 54 108 -163
30 14 r 2 34 0 -197
31 35 16 3 51 108 -140
32 34 r 2 32 0 -172
33 18 15 3 48 108 -112
34 9 14 2 30 72 -70
35 23 r 1 14 0 -84
36 10 13 2 28 72 -40
37 7 12 1 13 36 -17
38 18 r 1 12 0 -29
39 11 11 2 24 72 19 stop
40 21 r 1 11 0 8
41 10 r 2 22 0 -14
42 30 r 3 33 0 -47
43 25 10 4 44 144 53 definetly stop
44 10 r 3 30 0 23
45 26 r 4 40 0 -17
46 5 9 5 50 180 113
47 14 r 4 36 0 77
48 30 r 5 45 0 32
49 6 r 6 54 0 -22
50 17 r 7 63 0 -85
51 30 r 8 72 0 -157
52 27 8 9 81 324 86
53 11 r 86
54 14 r 86
55 19 r 86
56 17 r 86
57 9 r 86
58 31 r 86
59 10 r 86
60 6 r

61 0 7

Game 1 +£53

Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 0 36
2 19 35
3 28 34
4 14 33
5 12 32
6 33 31
7 31 30
8 30 29
9 20 28 stake
10 29 27 non-hit return
11 7 26 1 27 36 9
12 13 25 1 26 36 19
13 33 r 1 25 0 -6
14 3 24 2 50 72 16
15 28 r 1 24 0 -8
16 15 23 2 48 72 16
17 27 22 1 23 36 29
18 1 21 1 22 36 43
19 34 20 1 21 36 58
20 29 r 1
21 30 r 2
22 6 19 3
23 7 r 2
24 26 18 3
25 15 r 2
26 24 17 3
27 15 r
Game 2 +£58
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 02, 07:36 AM 2016
I played a live session at the B&M yesterday on a 0/00 American wheel, for repeats, but thought you may be interested what would happen if it had been played with KTF.

I am posting this because I just realized that most of the posted samples, if not all, are for Euro wheels.

Anyways, hopefully this will be of use to someone.

Code: [Select]
S	#	R	Bet	P	Stake	Won	Net	Total
1 8
2 0
3 10
4 15
5 2
6 14
7 34
8 15 R
9 33
10 12             Count is 9/10
11 13 29 1 29 36 7 7
12 23 28 1 28 36 8 15
13 13 R 27 1 27 -27 -12
14 0 27 2 54 72 18 6
15 3 26 1 26 36 10 16
16 10 R 25 1 25 -25 -9
17 23 R 25 2 50 -50 -59
18 5 25 3 75 108 33 -26
19 24 24 2 48 72 24 -2
20 24 R 23 1 23 -23 -25    Count is 6+1
21 20 23 2 46 72 26 1
22     17 22 1 22 36 14 15
23 27 21 1 21 36 15 30     On American wheel I stop at $30-$40 Profit
24 21 20 1 20 36 16 46
25 13 R 19 1 19 -19 27
26 27 R 19 2 38 -38 -11
27 25 19 3 57 108 51 40
28 0 R 18 2 36 -36 4
29 29 18 3 54 108 54 58
30 0 R 17 2 34 -34 24      Count is 12+2
31 2 R 17 3 51 -51 -27
32 16 17 4 68 144 76 49
33 26 16 3 48 108 60 109
34 16 R 15 2 30 -30 79
35 7 15 3 45 108 63 142
36 20 R 14 2 28 -28 114
37 12 R 14 3 42 -42 72
38 00 14 4 56 144 88 160
39 28 13 3 39 108 69 229
40 10 R 12 2 24 -24 205    Count is 17+2

Note: I always bet 0 and 00 individually, even if they are in the original sequence, and I take them down if hit.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 02, 09:34 AM 2016

Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)		
0 37
1 15 36
2 33 35
3 29 34
4 19 33
5 34 32
6 23 31
7 8 30
8 36 29
9 28 28 stake
10 24 27 non-hit return
11 17 26 1 27 36 9
12 30 25 1 26 36 19
13 36 r 1 25 0 -6
14 19 r 2 50 0 -56
15 30 r 3 75 0 -131
16 31 24 4 100 144 -87
17 15 r 3 72 0 -159
18 34 r 4 96 0 -255
19 6 23 5 120 180 -195
20 15 r 4 92 0 -287
21 17 r 5 115 0 -402
22 21 22 6 138 216 -324
23 17 r 5 110 0 -434
24 1 21 6 132 216 -350
25 24 r 5 105 0 -455
26 20 20 6 126 216 -365
27 14 19 5 100 180 -285
28 26 18 4 76 144 -217
29 4 17 3 54 108 -163
30 14 r 2 34 0 -197
31 35 16 3 51 108 -140
32 34 r 2 32 0 -172
33 18 15 3 48 108 -112
34 9 14 2 30 72 -70
35 23 r 1 14 0 -84
36 10 13 2 28 72 -40
37 7 12 1 13 36 -17
38 18 r 1 12 0 -29
39 11 11 2 24 72 19 stop
40 21 r 1 11 0 8
41 10 r 2 22 0 -14
42 30 r 3 33 0 -47
43 25 10 4 44 144 53 definetly stop
44 10 r 3 30 0 23
45 26 r 4 40 0 -17
46 5 9 5 50 180 113
47 14 r 4 36 0 77
48 30 r 5 45 0 32
49 6 r 6 54 0 -22
50 17 r 7 63 0 -85
51 30 r 8 72 0 -157
52 27 8 9 81 324 86
53 11 r 86
54 14 r 86
55 19 r 86
56 17 r 86
57 9 r 86
58 31 r 86
59 10 r 86
60 6 r

61 0 7



-Notto-

The game starting with 15 33 29 would have taken one helluva BR.
But it does win  in the end.

OOOH look at the nice repeats.
Sorry...I couldn't help myself

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 02, 09:37 AM 2016
Ktf does well unless its repeat city. Tough game
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 03, 05:19 AM 2016
Jackpot 247  3.3.16
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 3.3.16
1 28
2 20
3 6
4 18
5 11
6 27
7 13
8 10
9 35
10 20
11 0
12 0
13 20
14 12
15 9
16 29
17 12
18 3
19 18
20 16
21 32
22 21
23 7
24 21
25 35
26 19
27 15
28 25
29 6
30 17
31 23
32 8
33 7
34 14
35 8
36 25
37 29
38 27
39 13
40 13
41 34
42 27
43 0
44 34
45 2
46 3
47 9
48 4
49 27
50 11
51 0
52 29
53 35
54 0
55 24
56 12
57 6
58 31
59 28
60 8

61 19
62 11
63 12
64 10
65 1
66 31
67 5
68 7
69 1
70 29
71 6
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 03, 11:54 AM 2016
Thanks for todays JJ numbers.
They would have won playing KTF or for the repeats although it was a good excercise in the count to find the betting entry point.

I wonder if you and I are the only ones left here now.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 03, 12:22 PM 2016
I wonder if you and I are the only ones left here now.

-Celtic
No I'm reading everything with great interest!    I have not tested the repeaters idea, but I will. I still play KTF every day and works really great! So keep on with the great job!

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 03, 12:35 PM 2016
Celtic. I need a break for awhile so i wont be playing

But on airball when you go from say 3 units down to 2 units how do u do it?

Press repeat bet then swipe the chips off?

How do u do it so fast
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 03, 12:43 PM 2016

I wonder if you and I are the only ones left here now.

-Celtic

Nope  :)
Today's results

+50
+63
+71
+60
+52
+66
+63
+83
+61
+63
+55
+63
+55
+53
Had one bust (-400) If kept going it did got to +42 but I didn't.
And one session was a real grinder and ended -1 . I stopped there.
This was all played with the original KTF.

So far , so very good.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 03, 02:20 PM 2016
Celtic. I need a break for awhile so i wont be playing

But on airball when you go from say 3 units down to 2 units how do u do it?

Press repeat bet then swipe the chips off?

How do u do it so fast

My airball allows 50 seconds to bet regardless of the number of players.
Going down in units is the pain I know.

What I do is just reset the chip amount to the new value and rebet all the numbers less the last one hit.
It takes about the same length of time as pressing rebet and then reducing each bet by one unit but too many times I forgot to take down the last hit number.

Going up one unit is a breeze.
Press rebet and then just add 1 unit to each bet.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Genghis on Mar 03, 10:43 PM 2016
Hi Notto,

Thanks for revealing KTF.
It works great in my testing so far.
One question, must we wait for a complete 82 spins (all 37 numbers hit) before starting a new game.
Will there be any impact? Can we consider any cut-off point as the starting point of a new 82 spins cycle.
Thanks.

G
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 04, 04:15 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 4.3.16 
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 3.3.16
1 9
2 27
3 3
4 14
5 28
6 24
7 16
8 33
9 27
10 17
11 15
12 1
13 9
14 17
15 23
16 19
17 29
18 35
19 20
20 34
21 9
22 31
23 1
24 34
25 34
26 36
27 18
28 30
29 0
30 30
31 24
32 1
33 0
34 16
35 26
36 14
37 24
38 9
39 1
40 23
41 2
42 36
43 16
44 6
45 30
46 32
47 17
48 2
49 6
50 32
51 20
52 0
53 14
54 24
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 04, 04:31 AM 2016
Hi Notto,

Thanks for revealing KTF.
It works great in my testing so far.
One question, must we wait for a complete 82 spins (all 37 numbers hit) before starting a new game.
Will there be any impact? Can we consider any cut-off point as the starting point of a new 82 spins cycle.
Thanks.

G
Hello Genghis
The start of a new game will depend on where you are playing, for me on FOBT's, as soon as i get to the win point of as near to 50/+50 i move to a new shop. If I was using a live wheel, i would move to another table. If you stay at the same table i would restart after 60 spins as usually 30.5 Non-hit would have made an appearence.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteMaster on Mar 04, 08:44 AM 2016
very interesting. do youstart only when there are 10 numbers come in 10 spins or do you start after 10 spins irrespective of how many numbers came. played 1 session and it did go a little bit scary playing with £5 coins. can some one confirm is this how youplay.

17   36         
8   35         
14   34         
4   33         
19   32         
22   31         
3   30         
36   29         
36   29         
7   28         
30   27         
8   27   1   -27   -27
17   27   2   -54   -81
20   26   3   27   -54
27   25   2   20   -34
22   25   1   -25   -59
22   25   2   -50   -109
5   24   3   33   -76
25   23   2   24   -52
36   23   1   -23   -75
20   23   2   -46   -121
33   22   3   39   -82
27   22   2   -44   -126
10   21   3   42   -84
30   21   2   -42   -126
19   21   3   -63   -189
24   20   4   60   -129
20   20   3   -60   -189
19   20   4   -80   -269
32   19   5   80   -189
9   18   4   68   -121
25   18   3   -54   -175
2   17   4   72   -103
13   16   3   57   -46
24   15   2   40   -6
7   15   1   -15   -21
36   15   2   -30   -51
14   15   3   -45   -96
22   15   4   -60   -156
15   14   5   105   -51
12   13   4   88   37


thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 04, 11:04 AM 2016
Nope  :)
Today's results

+50
+63
+71
+60
+52
+66
+63
+83
+61
+63
+55
+63
+55
+53
Had one bust (-400) If kept going it did got to +42 but I didn't.
And one session was a real grinder and ended -1 . I stopped there.
This was all played with the original KTF.

So far , so very good.

That's what the man said when he fell off a 20 story building, as he was passing the 12th floor. :wink:

-Denzie

What happened to the approx. $50 max and then quit. :question:
It's gonna bite you!!!

Remember greed kills.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 04, 11:07 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 4.3.16 
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 3.3.16
1 9
2 27
3 3
4 14
5 28
6 24
7 16
8 33
9 27
10 17
11 15
12 1
13 9
14 17
15 23
16 19
17 29
18 35
19 20
20 34
21 9
22 31
23 1
24 34
25 34
26 36
27 18
28 30
29 0
30 30
31 24
32 1
33 0
34 16
35 26
36 14
37 24
38 9
39 1
40 23
41 2
42 36
43 16
44 6
45 30
46 32
47 17
48 2
49 6
50 32
51 20
52 0
53 14
54 24

-Notto

The date in the code area says these numbers are from 3/3/16.
Which date do they belong to.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 04, 12:03 PM 2016
very interesting. do youstart only when there are 10 numbers come in 10 spins or do you start after 10 spins irrespective of how many numbers came. played 1 session and it did go a little bit scary playing with £5 coins. can some one confirm is this how youplay.

17   36         
8   35         
14   34         
4   33         
19   32         
22   31         
3   30         
36   29         
36   29         
7   28         
30   27         
8   27   1   -27   -27
17   27   2   -54   -81
20   26   3   27   -54
27   25   2   20   -34
22   25   1   -25   -59
22   25   2   -50   -109
5   24   3   33   -76
25   23   2   24   -52
36   23   1   -23   -75
20   23   2   -46   -121
33   22   3   39   -82
27   22   2   -44   -126
10   21   3   42   -84
30   21   2   -42   -126
19   21   3   -63   -189
24   20   4   60   -129
20   20   3   -60   -189
19   20   4   -80   -269
32   19   5   80   -189
9   18   4   68   -121
25   18   3   -54   -175
2   17   4   72   -103
13   16   3   57   -46
24   15   2   40   -6
7   15   1   -15   -21
36   15   2   -30   -51
14   15   3   -45   -96
22   15   4   -60   -156
15   14   5   105   -51
12   13   4   88   37


thanks

You're numbers should produce this outcome.
You start betting on the 11th spin.

Code: [Select]
S	 #	R	Bet	P	Stake	Won	Net	Total
1  17 0 0 0 0 0
2 8 0 0 0 0 0
3  14 0 0 0 0 0
4   4 0 0 0 0 0
5  19 0 0 0 0 0
6  22 0 0 0 0 0
7   3 0 0 0 0 0
8   36 0 0 0 0 0
9   36 0 0 0 0 0
10   7 0 0 0 0 0
11  30 28 1 28 36 8 8
12   8 R 27 1 27 -27 -19
13 17 R 27 2 54 -54 -73
14   20 27 3 81 108 27 -46
15   27 26 2 52 72 20 -26
16 22 R 25 1 25 -25 -51
17 22 R 25 2 50 -50 -101
18  5 25 3 75 108 33 -68
19   25 24 2 48 72 24 -44
20  36 R 23 1 23 -23 -67
21  20 R 23 2 46 -46 -113
22  33 23 3 69 108 39 -74
23 27 R 22 2 44 -44 -118
24  10 22 3 66 108 42 -76
25   30 R 21 2 42 -42 -118
26 19 R 21 3 63 -63 -181
27   24 21 4 84 144 60 -121
28 20 R 20 3 60 -60 -181
29  19 R 20 4 80 -80 -261
30 32 20 5 100 180 80 -181
31 9 19 4 76 144 68 -113
32 25 R 18 3 54 -54 -167
33 2 18 4 72 144 72 -95
34 13 17 3 51 108 57 -38
35 24 R 16 2 32 -32 -70
36  7 R 16 3 48 -48 -118
37 36 R 16 4 64 -64 -182
38 14 R 16 5 80 -80 -262
39 22 R 16 6 96 -96 -358
40 15 16 7 112 252 140 -218
41 12 15 6 90 216 126 -92

Please read the entire thread to understand what is going on here

-Celtic


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 04, 12:20 PM 2016
-Denzie

What happened to the approx. $50 max and then quit. :question:
It's gonna bite you!!!

Remember greed kills.

-Celtic

I said to myself : I'm going for +50 sessions.
If I didn't. ..I wouldn't busted . The best is probably around 30-45....

Just thought on a bust I need only 8 games instead of 10 or more. After all I came out in profit. Today same problem.  Another bust. But ended the day with +208 . Only this time nothing would worked. Unless we would betting the repeaters.

Denzie
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 04, 12:38 PM 2016
-Notto

The date in the code area says these numbers are from 3/3/16.
Which date do they belong to.

-Celtic

sorry forgot to change the 3 to 4, so todays
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 04, 07:03 PM 2016
Well had a rare visit to the B+M, Aspers MK.
The first game i kept KTF won 33.50 with .25p units.
Reset used the other table on the touch screen. I used the last 7 numbers on marquee,decided to use the 8,11, needing only 1 more number,the 14 came,so 9/10.
Won the 1st 2 spins,as 11th is just early so i watched,got 14 th in and thought what would Celtic do, so i waited 15th came, so i went for the repeat,win. Thought i'll just rebet the 15,lose, so doubled, win.
Now this is where two blokes ask is it winning,so,yeah its winning,Meter now reads 49.75, so i was going to rebet the 15 and lay the other 2 non-hit, so push rebet lay the extra 2 numbers but realised they were'nt chipped up to the same amounts, so scrubbed the bet, yeah it won.
Now more ?'s, so tell them to look up on  the forum, now missed some spins so just thought i'd see if it gets the 24, it does, the last 2 spins were repeats,but you know when distracted things dont get marked properly.
Game 1 got 14 non-hit in 30 spins
Game 2 got the 15, so the avg 15 in 30 is pretty good.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JimmieB on Mar 04, 07:56 PM 2016
Oh it can be tense at the B&M... :) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 05, 04:43 AM 2016
Even thou i made a mistake at spin 17, like Winkel says i made a mistake, but i decided to play to KTF, still made £33.50 for .25p units.
Now as it should have been,a definite KEEP THE FAITH,
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 6 36
2 31 35
3 20 34
4 1 33
5 31 r
6 18 32
7 7 31
8 16 30
9 6 r stake
10 0 29 non-hit return
11 8 28 1 29 36 7
12 32 27 1 28 36 15
13 12 26 1 27 36 24
14 0 r 1 26 0 -2
15 22 25 2 52 72 18
16 8 r 1 25 0 -7
17 32 r 2 50 0 -57
18 26 24 3 75 108 -24
19 31 r 2 48 0 -72
20 31 r 3 72 0 -144
21 27 23 4 96 144 -96
22 8 r 3 69 0 -165
23 12 r 4 92 0 -257
24 13 22 5 115 180 -192
25 33 21 4 88 144 -136
26 10 20 3 63 108 -91
27 31 r 2 40 0 -131
28 24 19 3 60 108 -83
29 12 r 4 76 0 -159
30 33 r 5 95 0 -254
31 1 r 6 114 0 -368
32 32 r 7 133 0 -501
33 10 r 8 152 0 -653
34 23 18 9 171 324 -500
35 20 r 8 144 0 -644
36 8 r 9 162 0 -806
37 19 17 10 180 360 -626
38 27 r 9 153 0 -779
39 35 16 10 170 360 -589
40 3 15 9 144 324 -409
41 9 14 8 120 288 -241
42 24 r 7 98 0 -339
43 35 r 8 112 0 -451
44 27 r 9 126 0 -577
45 29 13 10 140 360 -357
46 31 r 9 117 0 -474
47 7 r 10 130 0 -604
48 17 12 11 143 396 -351
49 5 11 10 120 360 -111
50 11 10 9 99 324 114
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 05, 04:59 AM 2016
So 2nd game
This is why go to another wheel/table, different 37#'s due, 5 spins thank you
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)	
0 37
1 8 36
2 11 35
3 20 34
4 24 33
5 20 r
6 15 32
7 1 31
8 0 30
9 35 29 stake
10 14 28 non-hit return
11 16 27 1 28 36 8
12 34 26 1 27 36 17
13 26 25 1 26 36 27
14 28 24 1 25 36 38
15 17 23 1 24 36 50 stop
16 33 22 1 23 36 63
17 14 r 1 22 0 41
18 22 21 2 44 72 69
19 1 r 1 21 0 48
20 9 20 2 42 72 78
21 15 r 1 20 0 58
22 20 r 2 40 0 18
23 20 r 3 60 0 -42
24 33 r 4 80 0 -122
25 31 19 5 100 180 -42
26 1 r 4 76 0 -118
27 27 18 5 95 180 -33
28 7 17 4 72 144 39
29 1 r 3 51 0 -12
30 22 r 4 68 0 -80
31 18 16 5 85 180 15
32 22 r 4 56 0 -41
33 26 r 5 80 0 -121
34 12 15 6 96 216 -1
35 1 r 5 75 0 -76
36 33 r 6 90 0 -166
37 32 14 7 105 252 -19
38 29 13 6 84 216 113
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 05, 05:35 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 5/3/16 only 49 spins but an easy win
Code: [Select]
jackpotjoy 5.3.16
21
21
19
8
16
36
10
11
7
26
1
35
23
17
28
4
24
12
16
33
20
4
20
35
16
28
33
13
28
6
12
32
32
26
9
24
14
27
34
18
25
32
23
24
11
29
15
7
25
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 05, 05:40 AM 2016
Always looking for the easy bet. Theres something on the sheets, have a look, this should be right up RG's alley.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 05, 05:56 AM 2016
Thank you Notto for keeping us updated, like it!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 05, 12:58 PM 2016
Even thou i made a mistake at spin 17, like Winkel says i made a mistake, but i decided to play to KTF, still made £33.50 for .25p units.
Now as it should have been,a definite KEEP THE FAITH,
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 6 36
2 31 35
3 20 34
4 1 33
5 31 r
6 18 32
7 7 31
8 16 30
9 6 r stake
10 0 29 non-hit return
11 8 28 1 29 36 7
12 32 27 1 28 36 15
13 12 26 1 27 36 24
14 0 r 1 26 0 -2
15 22 25 2 52 72 18
16 8 r 1 25 0 -7
17 32 r 2 50 0 -57
18 26 24 3 75 108 -24
19 31 r 2 48 0 -72
20 31 r 3 72 0 -144
21 27 23 4 96 144 -96
22 8 r 3 69 0 -165
23 12 r 4 92 0 -257
24 13 22 5 115 180 -192
25 33 21 4 88 144 -136
26 10 20 3 63 108 -91
27 31 r 2 40 0 -131
28 24 19 3 60 108 -83
29 12 r 4 76 0 -159
30 33 r 5 95 0 -254
31 1 r 6 114 0 -368
32 32 r 7 133 0 -501
33 10 r 8 152 0 -653
34 23 18 9 171 324 -500
35 20 r 8 144 0 -644
36 8 r 9 162 0 -806
37 19 17 10 180 360 -626
38 27 r 9 153 0 -779
39 35 16 10 170 360 -589
40 3 15 9 144 324 -409
41 9 14 8 120 288 -241
42 24 r 7 98 0 -339
43 35 r 8 112 0 -451
44 27 r 9 126 0 -577
45 29 13 10 140 360 -357
46 31 r 9 117 0 -474
47 7 r 10 130 0 -604
48 17 12 11 143 396 -351
49 5 11 10 120 360 -111
50 11 10 9 99 324 114
You're numbers should produce this outcome.
You start betting on the 11th spin.

Code: [Select]
S	 #	R	Bet	P	Stake	Won	Net	Total
1  17 0 0 0 0 0
2 8 0 0 0 0 0
3  14 0 0 0 0 0
4   4 0 0 0 0 0
5  19 0 0 0 0 0
6  22 0 0 0 0 0
7   3 0 0 0 0 0
8   36 0 0 0 0 0
9   36 0 0 0 0 0
10   7 0 0 0 0 0
11  30 28 1 28 36 8 8
12   8 R 27 1 27 -27 -19
13 17 R 27 2 54 -54 -73
14   20 27 3 81 108 27 -46
15   27 26 2 52 72 20 -26
16 22 R 25 1 25 -25 -51
17 22 R 25 2 50 -50 -101
18  5 25 3 75 108 33 -68
19   25 24 2 48 72 24 -44
20  36 R 23 1 23 -23 -67
21  20 R 23 2 46 -46 -113
22  33 23 3 69 108 39 -74
23 27 R 22 2 44 -44 -118
24  10 22 3 66 108 42 -76
25   30 R 21 2 42 -42 -118
26 19 R 21 3 63 -63 -181
27   24 21 4 84 144 60 -121
28 20 R 20 3 60 -60 -181
29  19 R 20 4 80 -80 -261
30 32 20 5 100 180 80 -181
31 9 19 4 76 144 68 -113
32 25 R 18 3 54 -54 -167
33 2 18 4 72 144 72 -95
34 13 17 3 51 108 57 -38
35 24 R 16 2 32 -32 -70
36  7 R 16 3 48 -48 -118
37 36 R 16 4 64 -64 -182
38 14 R 16 5 80 -80 -262
39 22 R 16 6 96 -96 -358
40 15 16 7 112 252 140 -218
41 12 15 6 90 216 126 -92

Please read the entire thread to understand what is going on here

-Celtic
Aspers kept the faith as you would have to here, if wins the next spin would be back infront
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 05, 03:37 PM 2016
Notto, are you West Ham's "hammer"?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 05, 04:19 PM 2016
My first play was a bumpy road that resulted in positive result.

The next one was really fast I got 3 fast wins and after that the count of the no-hit came in in favour, so my plan was to start bet the repeaters for the first time!! What happened my child woke up so I had to stop  >:D Next time...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 06, 12:14 AM 2016
Even thou i made a mistake at spin 17, like Winkel says i made a mistake, but i decided to play to KTF, still made £33.50 for .25p units.
Now as it should have been,a definite KEEP THE FAITH,
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 6 36
2 31 35
3 20 34
4 1 33
5 31 r
6 18 32
7 7 31
8 16 30
9 6 r stake
10 0 29 non-hit return
11 8 28 1 29 36 7
12 32 27 1 28 36 15
13 12 26 1 27 36 24
14 0 r 1 26 0 -2
15 22 25 2 52 72 18
16 8 r 1 25 0 -7
17 32 r 2 50 0 -57
18 26 24 3 75 108 -24
19 31 r 2 48 0 -72
20 31 r 3 72 0 -144
21 27 23 4 96 144 -96
22 8 r 3 69 0 -165
23 12 r 4 92 0 -257
24 13 22 5 115 180 -192
25 33 21 4 88 144 -136
26 10 20 3 63 108 -91
27 31 r 2 40 0 -131
28 24 19 3 60 108 -83
29 12 r 4 76 0 -159
30 33 r 5 95 0 -254
31 1 r 6 114 0 -368
32 32 r 7 133 0 -501
33 10 r 8 152 0 -653
34 23 18 9 171 324 -500
35 20 r 8 144 0 -644
36 8 r 9 162 0 -806
37 19 17 10 180 360 -626
38 27 r 9 153 0 -779
39 35 16 10 170 360 -589
40 3 15 9 144 324 -409
41 9 14 8 120 288 -241
42 24 r 7 98 0 -339
43 35 r 8 112 0 -451
44 27 r 9 126 0 -577
45 29 13 10 140 360 -357
46 31 r 9 117 0 -474
47 7 r 10 130 0 -604
48 17 12 11 143 396 -351
49 5 11 10 120 360 -111
50 11 10 9 99 324 114

-Notto

Talk about Keeping The Faith.

I think I would have switched religions or become an atheist by spin #28 or #29 which would have been approx. an hour at the table for me :xd:

I wonder how many people would have risked $986 on spin #37 :question:

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 06, 01:42 AM 2016
jackpot247.com 6.3.16 KTF  +51
The wheels on the rollercoaster went pretty quick, the white knuckle ride began at spin 13, she climbed, up she went, but she soon dropped, she was slowing down, we got off at spin 29.
Why do we get off, because a repeat performance is a waiting, so go to another ride.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 07, 01:55 AM 2016
I busted one bankroll yesterday and I wonder how you should play this one?
It was with the casinos money so no big thing. But I'm curious how you think about this one:
Code: [Select]
29
26
11
19
29 R
32
8
0
3
20
------------
26 R
7
32 R
7  R
4
7  R
3  R
26 R
17
7  R
3  R
I did not get more numbers because I didn't got more money in time. When I was back the sequence was gone...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Mar 07, 02:29 AM 2016
 tuddilue,

Did you play this online? If yes, which site was it at?

Where is your tracking sheet?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 07, 02:36 AM 2016
tuddilue,

Did you play this online? If yes, which site was it at?

Where is your tracking sheet?
Hi, I played on Bwin online.

Yes I can add the tracking sheet if you want later. (I have just the numbers here now).

The interesting thing is how to think? Do you see something with help of the trot? Maybe switch to bet repeaters or just take the loss..

This kind of sequence is really rare. I think I'm up 5 bankrolls before this happened..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Mar 07, 02:48 AM 2016
It's hard to say now that we know the number's. Best advice for everyone if this or anything else happens is to post the first 10 number's and have others explain how they would play it.

Whats the minimum bet there?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 07, 02:59 AM 2016
It's hard to say now that we know the number's. Best advice for everyone if this or anything else happens is to post the first 10 number's and have others explain how they would play it.

Whats the minimum bet there?
I have played this so many times now so I think the random will do this. This is not a holy Grail so bust will happen.

I'm curious how Notto or Celtic or denzie would have done in this situation?  If you can be warned before with the trots help or betting on repeaters maybe..

For me I can bet 0.5 to 100 on single numbers. I did betting 2.5 this time as unit...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Mar 07, 03:10 AM 2016
oh wow..  I guess not enough bankroll and a bad sequence got you.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 07, 03:16 AM 2016
oh wow..  I guess not enough bankroll and a bad sequence got you.
He he yes that is the case. No big thing because I just lost one bankroll.

But you always want to learn and see if you can prevent it in the future. Maybe it is not possible if you play ktf I do not know..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 07, 03:46 AM 2016
I have played this so many times now so I think the random will do this. This is not a holy Grail so bust will happen.

I'm curious how Notto or Celtic or denzie would have done in this situation?  If you can be warned before with the trots help or betting on repeaters maybe..

For me I can bet 0.5 to 100 on single numbers. I did betting 2.5 this time as unit...

That's a RFH for sure. I probably stop at spin 17 (5units). Wait till spin 21-22 and go from there. If we play for repeaters I wouldn't play coz the count is in minus.

So bit sh*t we don't get more numbers. Anyway its a rfh.

Which table on Bwin you play?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 07, 04:02 AM 2016
That's a RFH for sure. I probably stop at spin 17 (5units). Wait till spin 21-22 and go from there. If we play for repeaters I wouldn't play coz the count is in minus.

So bit sh*t we don't get more numbers. Anyway its a rfh.

Which table on Bwin you play?
Yes I agree with you. A bit more caution and wait for 21-22...

Yes I'm sorry for that it is not more numbers, my fault.

This was played on RNG. I usually play on the first table with a dealer. I can choose 2 different.  I also play auto play is it called..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 07, 04:09 AM 2016
Tuddilue, Azim, here are 2 spin registries where we get 2 & 3 non-hit in 10 spins (spins 11-20) out of 367 games where you have 9 non-hit in 1st 10 spins, 2 in 367 games,just 2 and both finish below 15 in 30 spins
Code: [Select]
	LS-9		NL-9
1 9 9
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 1 7
12 5 1
13 2 4
14 4 1
15 3 1
16 4 1
17 1 4
18 2 2
19 1 2
20 1 3
21 4 3
22 5 1
23 1 0
24 4 0
25 1 0
26 1 0
27 1 0
28 3 0
29 0
30 0
31 0
32 0
33 0
34 0
35 0
36 0
37 0
38 0
39
40 11 12
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 07, 04:30 AM 2016
Notto, me no comprendo your numbers.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 07, 04:47 AM 2016
. I usually play on the first table with a dealer. I can choose 2 different.  I also play auto play is it called..

How many seconds you get for placing the bets ?

Autoplay?  Is a bit simular with airball?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 07, 04:54 AM 2016
Tuddilue, Azim, here are 2 spin registries where we get 2 & 3 non-hit in 10 spins (spins 11-20) out of 367 games where you have 9 non-hit in 1st 10 spins, 2 in 367 games,just 2 and both finish below 15 in 30 spins
Code: [Select]
	LS-9		NL-9
1 9 9
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 1 7
11 5 1
12 2 4
13
14 4 1
15 3 1
16 4 1
17 1 4
18 2 2
19 1 2
20 1 3
21 4 3
22 5 1
23 1 0
24 4 0
25 1 0
26 1 0
27 1 0
28 3 0
29 0
30 0
31 0
32 0
33 0
34 0
35 0
36 0
37 0
38 0
39
40 11 12
Nextyear LS-9,NL-9  means we got 9 non-hit in 1st 10 spins.
So the 10th non-hit in game NL-9 took 7 spins to hit, the 11th non-hit took just 1 spin, so 8 spins of spins 11-20 have been spun, the 12th non-hit  takes 4 spins to hit, so making the 12th non-hit come in,in spins 21-30, i moved the 1st few to where they should have been,okay.
So you can see in Tuddilue's game she only got 3 non-hit in 10 spins, in 367 recorded games i have only had 2 non-hit once.
Hope that helps
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 07, 05:02 AM 2016
Partialy helps!

What is LS and what NL?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 07, 05:28 AM 2016
How many seconds you get for placing the bets ?

Autoplay?  Is a bit simular with airball?
Around 30 seconds. But I only play KTF on RNG and then you have how much time you want.
This is because KTF works so well on RNG and that it is so many bets.

Yes auotplay = airball. They just call it that..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 07, 05:36 AM 2016
Tuddilue, Azim, here are 2 spin registries where we get 2 & 3 non-hit in 10 spins (spins 11-20) out of 367 games where you have 9 non-hit in 1st 10 spins, 2 in 367 games,just 2 and both finish below 15 in 30 spins
Thanks that explains a lot!

I went through all play I have done and I have played 70 KTF on your sheets. So this has just happened to me one time in 70 games. I will recover this in 10-15 games so it will go fast  :smile:

The thing I have learned here is that I need to record the games better so I get better statistics. I will look through your AVG posts in this thread and see if I get all the information...

But back to this. How do you think when these happens? I mean when "2 & 3 non-hit in 10 spins (spins 11-20) " occur?
Do you play along with KEEP THE FAITH?
Or stop takes the loss and starts a new game?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 07, 11:43 AM 2016
Thanks that explains a lot!

I went through all play I have done and I have played 70 KTF on your sheets. So this has just happened to me one time in 70 games. I will recover this in 10-15 games so it will go fast  :smile:

The thing I have learned here is that I need to record the games better so I get better statistics. I will look through your AVG posts in this thread and see if I get all the information...

But back to this. How do you think when these happens? I mean when "2 & 3 non-hit in 10 spins (spins 11-20) " occur?
Do you play along with KEEP THE FAITH?

Or stop takes the loss and starts a new game?

Code: [Select]
S	#	R	Bet	P	Stake	Won	Net	Total
1 29
2 26
3 11
4 19
5 29 R
6 32
7 8
8 0
9 3
10 20
11 26 R 28 1 28 -28 -28
12 7 28 2 56 72 16 -12
13 32 R 27 1 27 -27 -39
14 7 R 27 2 54 -54 -93
15 4 27 3 81 108 27 -66
16 7 R 26 2 52 -52 -118
17 3 R 26 3 78 -78 -196
18 26 R 26 4 104 -104 -300
19 17 26 5 130 180 50 -250
20 7 R 25 4 100 -100 -350
21 3 R 25 5 125 -125 -475

Denzie is right if playing KTF it is the RFH and if playing repeats you never would have started betting because the count is 3-2 after spin 20.

All you can do is pick your time to quit.
Personally I would have quit after losing on spin #13.
Why--because we have had 3 repeats in 13 spins at that point . That is approx. 23%.

With KTF you have to either accept what is happening and try to ride it out or quit with as small a loss as possible.

I hope this helps.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 07, 12:16 PM 2016
Denzie is right if playing KTF it is the RFH and if playing repeats you never would have started betting because the count is 3-2 after spin 20.

All you can do is pick your time to quit.
Personally I would have quit after losing on spin #13.
Why--because we have had 3 repeats in 13 spins at that point . That is approx. 23%.

With KTF you have to either accept what is happening and try to ride it out or quit with as small a loss as possible.

I hope this helps.

-Celtic
I think I need to work on the beginning of my game. I shouldn't quit before at spin #13, but I will now and I totally agree with you!

This describes KTF so good:
"With KTF you have to either accept what is happening and try to ride it out or quit with as small a loss as possible."

Yes it helps, thanks!!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 07, 01:35 PM 2016
Celtic well summed up. Been on the mother-in-law run, bank,doc's you name it she had to do it.
Jackpot247.com 7/3/16 long recording,collected 87 numbers/spins.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 07, 01:45 PM 2016
The 87 spins lets us see if it will win again as we are in the same stream of numbers, yes both win, +41 and +45.
Now i've tried loading the sheet and numbers but it just disappears.
I'll try sending  in a few minutes
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 07, 01:47 PM 2016
todays #'s
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 7.3.16
1 26
2 11
3 9
4 32
5 30
6 35
7 16
8 8
9 4
10 8
11 13
12 27
13 21
14 30
15 30
16 4
17 17
18 7
19 4
20 3
21 5
22 12
23 7
24 32
25 7
26 29
27 32
28 12
29 9
30 1
31 14
32 12
33 36
34 3
35 19
36 27
37 13
38 11
39 1
40 17
41 22
42 15
43 25
44 31
45 24
46 20
47 27
48 29
49 27
50 3
51 31
52 27
53 4
54 9
55 22
56 5
57 8
58 26
59 18
60 26

61 15
62 29
63 2
64 3
65 1
66 27
67 32
68 21
69 6
70 6
71 11
72 28
73 19
74 27
75 31
76 13
77 31
78 16
79 11
80 35
81 28
82 4
83 15
84 32
85 4
86 25
87 12
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 07, 01:49 PM 2016
And you are also ideal son in law?!
Hats off!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Big EZ on Mar 07, 01:59 PM 2016
Always looking for the easy bet. Theres something on the sheets, have a look, this should be right up RG's alley.

I agree  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 07, 07:18 PM 2016
Celtic well summed up. Been on the mother-in-law run, bank,doc's you name it she had to do it.
Jackpot247.com 7/3/16 long recording,collected 87 numbers/spins.

Been there done that.
I hope the mother-in law is OK.

I am still only betting repeats and not looking at other strategies.
Why bother.
I think Denzie has come to the same conclusion

I think we should give the repeat system a name.
How about the NottoCeltic Repeat Strategy shortened to NCRS? :wink:

By the way I noticed Winkel has been on the forum recently.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 08, 02:51 AM 2016
I think we should give the repeat system a name.
How about the NottoCeltic Repeat Strategy shortened to NCRS? :wink:

By the way I noticed Winkel has been on the forum recently.

-Celtic
Good idea!
Do you think it is possible to make a new thread with the  repeaters system? So we can describe it and have the test result on one place.
What do you think?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 08, 05:45 AM 2016
Todays #'s  KTF +£49
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 8.3.16
1 10
2 24
3 32
4 34
5 35
6 17
7 13
8 5
9 32
10 8
11 14
12 29
13 21
14 13
15 4
16 36
17 36
18 14
19 22
20 11
21 25
22 5
23 35
24 24
25 19
26 4
27 4
28 32
29 3
30 35
31 27
32 15
33 2
34 33
35 9
36 6
37 22
38 17
39 17
40 20
41 20
42 4
43 21
44 12
45 25
46 3
47 17
48 17
49 20
50 6
51 35
52 33
53 26
54 32
55 19
56 34
57 20
58 28
59 28
60 34

61 2
62 33
63 14
64 15
65 2
66 2
67 0
68 1
69 27
70 18
71 7
72 21
73 13
74 21
75 26
76 14
77 17
78 36
79 6

If you want you could use the numbers after 60th spin for another game, but me i'd be on another table.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 08, 01:10 PM 2016
Good idea!
Do you think it is possible to make a new thread with the  repeaters system? So we can describe it and have the test result on one place.
What do you think?

-Tuddilue

There are already threads associated with betting repeats.
Read them and a lot of your questions should be answered.

I think that most people just want a cut and dried system to bet that makes money.
KTF is the system for them, and not betting repeats.
KTF wins more than it loses but you will run into the odd RFH every now and then and the trick is knowing when to quit with as small a loss as possible. This was discussed the other day re. your post with all those repeats.

When someone says that KTF does not work for them my first question would be what was your BR.
If it is less than $400 then they are not following the basic KTF guidelines which state:

1. To play KTF you should have a $400 BR
2. Quit after making $40-$50 profit on a Euro wheel and $30-$40 on and American wheel.
3. Progression is +1/-1

It doesn't get more simpler than that.

OR

You could start a new thread regarding betting repeats. :wink:

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 08, 02:59 PM 2016

KTF wins more than it loses but you will run into the odd RFH every now and then and the trick is knowing when to quit with as small a loss as possible.

-Celtic

No doubt.  It's a winner  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 08, 03:55 PM 2016
-Tuddilue

There are already threads associated with betting repeats.
Read them and a lot of your questions should be answered.

I think that most people just want a cut and dried system to bet that makes money.
KTF is the system for them, and not betting repeats.
KTF wins more than it loses but you will run into the odd RFH every now and then and the trick is knowing when to quit with as small a loss as possible. This was discussed the other day re. your post with all those repeats.

When someone says that KTF does not work for them my first question would be what was your BR.
If it is less than $400 then they are not following the basic KTF guidelines which state:

1. To play KTF you should have a $400 BR
2. Quit after making $40-$50 profit on a Euro wheel and $30-$40 on and American wheel.
3. Progression is +1/-1

It doesn't get more simpler than that.

OR

You could start a new thread regarding betting repeats. :wink:

-Celtic
- Celtic

Good written answer!

For myself I already study the repeat threads that I find. So I learn...

I was more thinking that we split up the information. Because in this thread we should mostly talk about KTF not the repeaters. But as said before it was just an idea..

Your description of KTF is briliant, yes it doesn't get simpler than that!

Hehe nope I do not have enough knowledge to start a new thread of the repeaters  ;)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 08, 04:52 PM 2016
Here is a group of numbers from my B&M live session yesterday.
I am posting them because there are very few examples of American wheel spins in this thread and I wanted to show that it also wins on KTF.

Decided to take it easy and just play KTF, while the wife played slots, but KTF ran right into a repeats betting opportunity so I continued playing.

Left with $145 total profit within 3/4 hour.

Code: [Select]
Georgian Downs 7Mar16
35
00
34
9
0
9
8
5
9
12
28
0
8
24
1
12
31
36
14
29
35
22
31
36
8
9
13
27
3
17
16
2
18
21
00
30
18
20
7
36
16
20
21
29
22
15
9
3
3
21
34
18
10
10
21
29
16
30
00
10

This is the payout sheet for KTF only.

Code: [Select]
S	#	R	Bet	P	Stake	Won	Net	Total
11 28 30 1 30 36 6 6
12 0 29 1 29 36 7 13
13 8 R 28 1 28 -28 -15
14 24 28 2 56 72 16 1
15 1 27 1 27 36 9 10
16 12 R 26 1 26 -26 -16
17 31 26 2 52 72 20 4
18 36 25 1 25 36 11 15
19 14 24 1 24 36 12 27
20 29 23 1 23 36 13 40

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 09, 02:16 AM 2016
Thanks Celtic, nice!

Is wife having winning tactic on slots?
I never played slots...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 09, 05:47 AM 2016
Thanks Celtic, nice!

Is wife having winning tactic on slots?
I never played slots...

My wife's winnining tactic is to play ie. lose $20 of my winnings when she comes with me. :twisted:
I never play slots.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 09, 06:48 AM 2016
You lucky devil!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 09, 06:57 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 9.3.16  KTF  +45
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 9.3.16
1 4
2 24
3 24
4 17
5 14
6 8
7 23
8 32
9 23
10 13
11 2
12 20
13 15
14 25
15 1
16 15
17 1
18 9
19 13
20 4
21 10
22 23
23 36
24 33
25 33
26 7
27 22
28 24
29 11
30 25
31 1
32 17
33 18
34 6
35 15
36 30
37 7
38 1
39 26
40 11
41 26
42 4
43 24
44 33
45 18
46 32
47 17
48 19
49 17
50 10
51 14
52 8
53 0
54 8
55 25
56 36
57 14
58 23
59 15
60 14
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 09, 03:27 PM 2016
Just thought I'll throw it in here. Will it fail? Probably. No idea actually. I checked my last 56 rng sessions. ...here it goes  :P

Track 10 spins. Now bet those numbers they will repeat. We going for 1 hit. And refresh the session. It's a 10 step progression  :ooh:

Spin 11 ... 1unit on our given numbers
Spin 12 ....2
         13 ....3
         14 ....4
         15 ....5
         16 ....6
         17 ....8
         18 ....12
         19 ....16
         20 ....25
         21.... Die :P

Maybe you guys can check how often we get 10 non hits in spin 11-20.
Of course I didn't play it but I would made actually 1954 units.

That's it. Probably suicide. But it doesn't hurt to check your sheets.
Oh one more thing: if we get a hit straight away. And then go for one more....didn't busted yet. Just mention it. :o
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 09, 04:05 PM 2016
Just checked 43 more rng sessions.
Had 1 bust. But ended +480

So far 99 sessions gives a profit of +2434.
Maybe it's just luck. Anyway I'll keep looking at it.. who knows.  Lol
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tomla021 on Mar 09, 04:23 PM 2016
denzie-your just playing the 10 numbers for a repeat?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 09, 04:29 PM 2016
denzie-your just playing the 10 numbers for a repeat?

Yes.
As I did close to 300 sessions on rng now..I've started to notice that .....well they repeat almost all the time. Tomorrow I gonna check wiesbaden. .... it's probably just luck. Never try , never know
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 09, 04:41 PM 2016
If you look in the doc: at
25.2.16
26.2.16
24.1.16  you can see how close it gets to 10 non-hit in spins 11-20
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 09, 05:30 PM 2016
Den of the 75 games theres only been games of 8,9,10 unique in first 10 spins, of those 75 games theres only 16 games where theres no repeat in 1st 10 spins, so about 80% of games give a repeat in first 10 spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 09, 08:58 PM 2016
80% win rate on 10 number seems good to me

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 09, 09:12 PM 2016
Another good day at the local B&M on the American Wheel.

Here are the spins and KTF payout sheet.
Note: I only played the repeats but ran the numbers for KTF all the way to the end for your reference.

Code: [Select]
S	#	R	Bet	P	Stake	Won	Net	Total
1 12 0 0 0 0
2 15 0 0 0 0
3 35 0 0 0 0
4 34 0 0 0 0
5 17 0 0 0 0
6 19 0 0 0 0
7 12 R 0 0 0 0
8 20 0 0 0 0
9 5 0 0 0 0
10 23 0 0 0 0
11 0 29 1 29 36 7 7
12 25 28 1 28 36 8 15
13 30 27 1 27 36 9 24
14 13 26 1 26 36 10 34 ----This is an American 00 wheel so quit here (Max $30-$40 Profit)
15 9 25 1 25 36 11 45
16 25 R 24 1 24 -24 21
17 12 R 24 2 48 -48 -27
18 9 R 24 3 72 -72 -99
19 1 24 4 96 144 48 -51
20 7 23 3 69 108 39 -12
21 20 R 22 2 44 -44 -56
22 28 R 22 3 66 -66 -122
23 19 R 22 4 88 -88 -210
24 11 22 5 110 180 70 -140
25 36 21 4 84 144 60 -80
26 9 R 20 3 60 -60 -140
27 16 20 4 80 144 64 -76
28 16 R 19 3 57 -57 -133
29 27 19 4 76 144 68 -65
30 34 R 18 3 54 -54 -119
31 24 18 4 72 144 72 -47
32 17 R 17 3 51 -51 -98
33 19 R 17 4 68 -68 -166
34 11 R 17 5 85 -85 -251
35 19 R 17 6 102 -102 -353
36 27 R 17 7 119 -119 -472
37 22 17 6 102 216 114 -358
38 29 16 5 80 180 100 -258
39 30 R 15 4 60 -60 -318
40 18 15 5 75 180 105 -213
41 27 R 14 4 56 -56 -269
42 3 14 5 70 180 110 -159
43 18 R 13 4 52 -52 -211
44 29 R 13 5 65 -65 -276
45 10 13 6 78 216 138 -138
46 17 R 12 5 60 -60 -198
47 33 12 6 72 216 144 -54
48 34 R 11 5 55 -55 -109
49 29 R 11 6 66 -66 -175
50 3 R 11 7 77 -77 -252
51 24 R 11 8 88 -88 -340
52 23 R 11 9 99 -99 -439
53 8 11 10 110 360 250 -189
54 25 R 10 9 90 -90 -279
55 21 10 10 100 360 260 -19
56 19 R 9 9 81 -81 -100
57 14 9 10 90 360 270 170
58 20 R 8 9 72 -72 98
59 36 R 8 10 80 -80 18
60 4 8 11 88 396 308 326

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 09, 09:53 PM 2016
Den of the 75 games theres only been games of 8,9,10 unique in first 10 spins, of those 75 games theres only 16 games where theres no repeat in 1st 10 spins, so about 80% of games give a repeat in first 10 spins

Uhm ok. But I'm betting after our 10 spins. Doesn't matter if there are 8-9-10 unique.
I will check your sheets in this thread too.
As I said...probably just luck. Hope not though. ^^
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 10, 12:56 AM 2016
Notto...I toke a look on all your ktf sheets you posted here.(written ones) . And some others too.
Didn't find a bust. Correct me if I'm wrong pls.

Estimated around +1500 units minimum.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 10, 04:24 AM 2016
Nevermind  :wink:
It tanked. But not when we get 10 non hits first. Still looking to bust at least ones.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 04:56 AM 2016
Oh one more thing: if we get a hit straight away. And then go for one more....didn't busted yet. Just mention it. :o
Interesting! When I went through my sheets I found around 10 these for example:
Code: [Select]
... (10 non hit)
11 36 
12 18 R
Yes they are not many but they exists...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 05:04 AM 2016
Just checked 43 more rng sessions.
Had 1 bust. But ended +480

So far 99 sessions gives a profit of +2434.
Maybe it's just luck. Anyway I'll keep looking at it.. who knows.  Lol
That's really good!

One question do you use some stop trigger?

I mean if you have a lot of repeaters in the beginning (11-21) do you not betting and restarts the session then?
I have had the RFH above and yesterday I had 5 repeaters in a streak from 12-16. In that sequence I used a stop trigger after 2 repeats so my loss was not so big. I can put up the numbers later today...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 10, 06:11 AM 2016
That's really good!

One question do you use some stop trigger?

I mean if you have a lot of repeaters in the beginning (11-21) do you not betting and restarts the session then?
I have had the RFH above and yesterday I had 5 repeaters in a streak from 12-16. In that sequence I used a stop trigger after 2 repeats so my loss was not so big. I can put up the numbers later today...

Not sure what you trying to ask. ....I not see anything wrong in what you post.

So we wait 10 unique.  Then we bet all those 10 nrs for a repeat . Stop. Retrack.
Iow a bust is 20 unique in a row.

With 7-8-9 unique in our first 10 spins I found busts. With 10 still haven't found one. But I'm sure I will.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 06:26 AM 2016
Not sure what you trying to ask. ....I not see anything wrong in what you post.

So we wait 10 unique.  Then we bet all those 10 nrs for a repeat . Stop. Retrack.
Iow a bust is 20 unique in a row.

With 7-8-9 unique in our first 10 spins I found busts. With 10 still haven't found one. But I'm sure I will.
I'm not asking about your new theory (by the way I think is interesting).
I'm asking about when you are playing the original KTF.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 06:27 AM 2016
Not sure what you trying to ask. ....I not see anything wrong in what you post.

So we wait 10 unique.  Then we bet all those 10 nrs for a repeat . Stop. Retrack.
Iow a bust is 20 unique in a row.

With 7-8-9 unique in our first 10 spins I found busts. With 10 still haven't found one. But I'm sure I will.
I'm not asking about your new theory (by the way I think is interesting).
I'm asking about when you are playing the original KTF.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 10, 06:42 AM 2016
Using my sheet before i came to using +1/-1 on KTF, i use to track the previous 10 spins, so lets say spins1-10 have no repeat, in spins11-20 i would watch to see if 1-10 repeat before 5th spin which would be spin 15,if they had not repeated i would then start to bet the 10 numbers. Most times it would win,sometimes i'd be still trying for the repeat in 21-30.

So todays #'s each previous 10 repeat in the next 10 spins
1-10 1 repeat
11-20 #29 repeats from spins1-10
21-30 #29 repeats from spins 11-20
31-40 #1 repeats from spins 21-30
41-50 #2 repeats from spins 31-40
51-60 #12 repeats from spins 41-50

No chance to bet for the repeat as they came early. It was just away to bet a small amount of #'s, but what if i'd started to bet straight away it could go the 5 and not repeated so thats 5 bets to early. On the FOBT i've seen a block of 10 spins miss for 30 plus spins, but you have to see if the wins will keep you in profit, so i left it alone and started just betting the non-hit, the larger group.
Like Azim says you could start after the win on KTF again, so todays win comes on spin 19 #1. now collect the next 10 spins,which would be spins 21-30, you can see it would win. But as i play on RNG i'd still move to another shop and be in a new stream of #'s.

Whilst printing the sheet, it reminded the above is just like 12 unique in x spins and we know that that would bust sometimes, so just keep to the original KTF, if you get the win target is it favorable to go for Celtics repeats
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 10, 06:47 AM 2016
Results may vary with real wheel players and the fobt

But given your results notto even i am now questioning that
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 07:17 AM 2016
...we know that that would bust sometimes, so just keep to the original KTF, if you get the win target is it favorable to go for Celtics repeats
Thanks notto for the more explanation about the repeaters. I will also try this in my sessions!

If we talk about the KTF are you using some stop trigger or just not bet when you see a lot of repeaters in the first 5 (11-16)?
I have a stop trigger when KTF has done 2 losses in row. Because I think it is to hard to recovery. Yes I do recover occasionally but not always.. What do you think about this?
I also look at the trot as much as I can. But this can be an easy trigger to stop betting.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 10, 08:38 AM 2016
Tuddilue
This is why i dropped trying for repeats, 5/3/16 shows using previous 10 spins how it can fail.
Spins 11-20 get a repeat from 1st 10, 21-30 gets its repeat from 11-20, 21-30 does not repeat in the next 19 spins, but spins 31-40 do repeat in spins 41-50.
Like Azim said it’s better to restart or Winkel jump, so if you collected the next 10 spins,21-30 where the cycle of 37 you are in has shown how those 10 have missed, if you start again, the KTF is a winner.
To me it’s better to play for non-hits from the start of a fresh 37 spin cycle, the non-hit are the larger group and what are we expecting the larger group to do, hit
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 09:12 AM 2016
Tuddilue
This is why i dropped trying for repeats, 5/3/16 shows using previous 10 spins how it can fail.
Spins 11-20 get a repeat from 1st 10, 21-30 gets its repeat from 11-20, 21-30 does not repeat in the next 19 spins, but spins 31-40 do repeat in spins 41-50.
Like Azim said it’s better to restart or Winkel jump, so if you collected the next 10 spins,21-30 where the cycle of 37 you are in has shown how those 10 have missed, if you start again, the KTF is a winner.
To me it’s better to play for non-hits from the start of a fresh 37 spin cycle, the non-hit are the larger group and what are we expecting the larger group to do, hit
Thanks notto!
Yes the repeaters can take long time before they arrive.  I have not been betting them before. I can understand why you have dropped it..

Here comes my session I had that I wonder how you should play?

So in the first 11-21 there is 7 repeaters with a streak of 5 as longest. I stopped at spin 13 and lost 68 but if I should have KTF the bankroll should bust. So do you have some tips around this one?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 10, 10:35 AM 2016
Notto...I toke a look on all your ktf sheets you posted here.(written ones) . And some others too.
Didn't find a bust. Correct me if I'm wrong pls.

Estimated around +1500 units minimum.  :thumbsup:

-Denzie

Any busts are few and far between but look at some of the drawdowns.
For example spin #37 on post #466. I could not find which JJ this belonged to.
It is $986 .
Would you have continued to that level?
It won in the end.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 10, 10:43 AM 2016
Hi  tuddilue
Just looked at that sheet and your stop was the right decision, so you now restart collect spins 21-30 and get the win. Or start on another wheel, but Azim said if you restart in the stream it will win, so the above i guess he's right.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 10, 10:49 AM 2016
Think this is what your looking for. Its a live session at Aspers MK and it did make me keep the faith,
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 10, 11:04 AM 2016
Its like you said Celtic when going down 1 on the prog can be a problem and as i was at 8 units i did a, dont knock it till you try it i just took of the winning number but left it at 8, back to a new high and reset to 1unit, but believe me i was so tempted to repeat the above, but thought better of it and dropped to 1
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 11:10 AM 2016
Hi  tuddilue
Just looked at that sheet and your stop was the right decision, so you now restart collect spins 21-30 and get the win. Or start on another wheel, but Azim said if you restart in the stream it will win, so the above i guess he's right.
Oh that was impressive. Look at the sheet now!
I restarted and collected the spins from 21-30. Look what I got 9+4..
Yes Azim had correct!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 10, 11:14 AM 2016
Good Tuddilue
Now more practice
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 10, 11:51 AM 2016
Thanks notto!
Yes the repeaters can take long time before they arrive.  I have not been betting them before. I can understand why you have dropped it..

Here comes my session I had that I wonder how you should play?

So in the first 11-21 there is 7 repeaters with a streak of 5 as longest. I stopped at spin 13 and lost 68 but if I should have KTF the bankroll should bust. So do you have some tips around this one?

That machine rou play on sure likes the repeats near the beginnining doesn' it.
Attached is a sheet showing two resets for this session.

As Notto and Winkel stated, sometimes you just have to do a reset.
Here I reset twice and Chart #3 was a KTF winner.

Also, look at the count to bet repeaters after spin #20 of Chart #3.
It doesn't get much better than that.

Here is the KTF payout sheet for Chart #3

Code: [Select]

S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
11 5 28 1 28 36 8 8
12 17 27 1 27 36 9 17
13 32 26 1 26 36 10 27
14 19 25 1 25 36 11 38
15 10 24 1 24 36 12 50-------------Quit and watch the count
16 28 23 1 23 36 13 63
17 1 22 1 22 36 14 77
18 20 R 21 1 21 -21 56
19 36 21 2 42 72 30 86
20 6 20 1 20 36 16 102
21 0 19 1 19 36 17 119


-Celtic


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 10, 12:01 PM 2016
Oh that was impressive. Look at the sheet now!
I restarted and collected the spins from 21-30. Look what I got 9+4..
Yes Azim had correct!

And look at the count after spin#20

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 10, 12:04 PM 2016
Its like you said Celtic when going down 1 on the prog can be a problem and as i was at 8 units i did a, dont knock it till you try it i just took of the winning number but left it at 8, back to a new high and reset to 1unit, but believe me i was so tempted to repeat the above, but thought better of it and dropped to 1

I know.
I think that is the greed factor trying to slip in :twisted:

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 01:48 PM 2016
That machine rou play on sure likes the repeats near the beginnining doesn' it.
Attached is a sheet showing two resets for this session.

As Notto and Winkel stated, sometimes you just have to do a reset.
Here I reset twice and Chart #3 was a KTF winner.

Also, look at the count to bet repeaters after spin #20 of Chart #3.
It doesn't get much better than that.
...
Yes that is correct. I almost always get a repeater in the early 3 (11-13).
It will be really interesting to see what will happen when you can do like this!

Yes that count is really impressive! The repeaters are coming  >:D

What are you using for program to make so nice sheets?  :thumbsup: Something you made by yourself?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 10, 03:33 PM 2016
Yes that is correct. I almost always get a repeater in the early 3 (11-13).
It will be really interesting to see what will happen when you can do like this!

Yes that count is really impressive! The repeaters are coming  >:D

What are you using for program to make so nice sheets?  :thumbsup: Something you made by yourself?

Open source Libre Office---same as Excel only free.
The jpg was just a printscreen shot.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 03:45 PM 2016
Open source Libre Office---same as Excel only free.
The jpg was just a printscreen shot.

-Celtic
Thanks,  that I must test!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Mar 10, 04:05 PM 2016
@tuddilue >> Of all the avatars here, yours freaks the s**t out of me the most.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 10, 04:43 PM 2016
Here is my play today at the B&M.
American Wheel  BR $400
The payout sheet is for KTF only.
I only played the repeats starting at spin #23 and bet all the single hits.

KTF Payout Sheet

Code: [Select]
S	#	R	Bet	P	Stake	Won	Net	Total
1 19 0 0 0 0
2 1 0 0 0 0
3 9 0 0 0 0
4 15 0 0 0 0
5 16 0 0 0 0
6 1 R 0 0 0 0
7 26 0 0 0 0
8 33 0 0 0 0
9 22 0 0 0 0
10 2 0 0 0 0
11 3 29 1 29 36 7 7
12 6 28 1 28 36 8 15
13 27 27 1 27 36 9 24
14 20 26 1 26 36 10 34------------Would have quit here
15 19 R 25 1 25 -25 9               Remember Greed Kills!!!
16 17 25 2 50 72 22 31
17 25 24 1 24 36 12 43
18 10 23 1 23 36 13 56
19 0 22 1 22 36 14 70
20 12 21 1 21 36 15 85
21 7 20 1 20 36 16 101
22 27 R 19 1 19 -19 82
23 30 19 2 38 72 34 116
24 6 R 18 1 18 -18 98
25 9 R 18 2 36 -36 62
26 20 18 3 54 108 54 116
27 20 R 17 2 34 -34 82
28 25 R 17 3 51 -51 31
29 12 R 17 4 68 -68 -37
30 7 R 17 5 85 -85 -122

-Celtic

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 11, 01:51 AM 2016
@tuddilue >> Of all the avatars here, yours freaks the s**t out of me the most.

Ken
He he ok. That was not my intention, sorry for that Mr J! I'm a big Ozzy Osbourne fan that is the reason for the Avatar..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Mar 11, 04:08 AM 2016
He he ok. That was not my intention, sorry for that Mr J! I'm a big Ozzy Osbourne fan that is the reason for the Avatar..
Saw Sabbath 1979. Original line up. Couldnt hear for 5 days
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 11, 04:35 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 11.3.16   KTF +53  KTF's Brother +19
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 11, 04:43 AM 2016
Always looking for the easy bet. Theres something on the sheets, have a look, this should be right up RG's alley.

Big EZ

    100+ posts Member
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Re: KTF
« Reply #498 on: March 07, 2016, 06:59:46 PM »

    Quote

Quote from: nottophammer on March 05, 2016, 10:40:33 AM

    Always looking for the easy bet. Theres something on the sheets, have a look, this should be right up RG's alley.


I agree  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 11, 10:34 AM 2016
Saw Sabbath 1979. Original line up. Couldnt hear for 5 days
He he impressive!  That would be something to experience!  Me for my part I have met him twice. A really humble and nice man!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 13, 10:05 AM 2016
-Notto

Where are yesterdays JJ numbers?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 13, 10:10 AM 2016
Jackpot 247  12.3.16  KTF +79 #12
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 12.3.16
1 15
2 2
3 9
4 29
5 1
6 25
7 22
8 35
9 6
10 0
11 22
12 17
13 13
14 0
15 8
16 8
17 30
18 18
19 0
20 17
21 21
22 27
23 15
24 1
25 27
26 36
27 5
28 8
29 36
30 20
31 6
32 14
33 12
34 32
35 19
36 26
37 0
38 25
39 24
40 29
41 33
42 36
43 5
44 21
45 27
46 4
47 5
48 35
49 29
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 13, 10:14 AM 2016
jackpot 247  13.3.16  KTF +66 #21 
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 13.3.16
1 4
2 23
3 33
4 4
5 2
6 14
7 10
8 29
9 25
10 16
11 19
12 4
13 17
14 19
15 28
16 14
17 14
18 1
19 31
20 28
21 1
22 30
23 26
24 8
25 16
26 13
27 16
28 35
29 19
30 25
31 11
32 8
33 30
34 18
35 21
36 6
37 5
38 25
39 13
40 13
41 31
42 25
43 12
44 7
45 13
46 31
47 1
48 25
49 27
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 13, 10:21 AM 2016
-Notto

Thank You for the JJ numbers

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 14, 06:01 AM 2016
jackpot 247  14.3.16   KTF +46 #29
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 14.3.16
1 22
2 33
3 7
4 13
5 32
6 21
7 22
8 15
9 24
10 10
11 24
12 6
13 6
14 12
15 17
16 11
17 23
18 36
19 24
20 8
21 29
22 8
23 25
24 0
25 7
26 28
27 12
28 16
29 31
30 3
31 35
32 23
33 4
34 9
35 22
36 26
37 27
38 15
39 24
40 33
41 35
42 1
43 21
44 6
45 35
46 19
47 31
48 26
49 7
50 23
51 0
52 13
53 26
54 23
55 9
56 23
57 16
58 36
59 31
60 14

61 17
62 18
63 12
64 8
65 32
66 20
67 11
68 0
69 4
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 14, 07:32 PM 2016
Code: [Select]

Spin   Color   Number   Bet   Win/Loose
1   r   27      
2   r   2   1   -1
3   b   29   2   2
4   b   6      
5   r   4      
6   b   18   1   1
7   r   36      
8   r   32   1   -1
9   r   4   2   -2
10   b   30      
11   b   17      
12   b   28      
13   b   32      
14   r   27      
15   b   24   4   4
16   r   3      
17   r   12   1   -1
18   r   12   2   -2
19   r   30      
20   r   12      
21   b   31      
22   r   9      
23   b   2   4   4
24   r   9      
25   b   11   1   1
26   r   9      
27   g   0   1   -1
28   r   25      
29   r   5   2   -2
30   b   29   4   4
31   b   35      
32   b   13      
33   b   24      
34   r   16      
35   b   13   1   1
36   r   16      
37   b   31   1   1
38   b   4      
39   r   3      
40   r   1   1   -1
41   b   17   2   2
42   b   28      
43   b   6      
44   r   32      

These are Rourkes #'s  +46  if its a zero wheel
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 14, 10:49 PM 2016
Well gang another great day at the B&M.

I attached all of the original numbers that would have been KTF
I only played repeats again.

This was one of the tricky ones to play repeats where all that studying payed off.
I reset  and started a new chart so that spin #9 (17) was the first number.
After the 10th new spin I had 9/10
After the 20th spin the count was 8+3.
Note to Denzie--With a count this great so early in the sequence this is an example of where I will go for the fourth win before quitting, and had the count been 8+4 possibly 5 wins before quitting.

This is the KTF chart and remember this is an American 00 wheel.

Code: [Select]

S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
1 30
2 22
3 8
4 10
5 7
6 25
7 18
8 29
9 17
10 29 R
11 7 R 29 1 29 -29 -29
12 23 29 2 58 72 14 -15
13 7 R 28 1 28 -28 -43
14 25 R 28 2 56 -56 -99
15 33 28 3 84 108 24 -75
16 16 27 2 54 72 18 -57
17 2 26 1 26 36 10 -47
18 18 R 25 1 25 -25 -72
19 21 25 2 50 72 22 -50
20 3 24 1 24 36 12 -38
21 31 23 1 23 36 13 -25
22 25 R 22 1 22 -22 -47
23 33 R 22 2 44 -44 -91
24 19 22 3 66 108 42 -49
25 28 21 2 42 72 30 -19
26 4 20 1 20 36 16 -3
27 0 19 1 19 36 17 14
28 34 18 1 18 36 18 32 -------- Would have quit here -------------
29 31 R 17 1 17 -17 15
30 22 R 17 2 34 -34 -19
31 21 R 17 3 51 -51 -70
32 15 17 4 68 144 76 6
33 28 R 16 3 48 -48 -42
34 4 R 16 4 64 -64 -106
35 14 16 5 80 180 100 -6
36 18 R 15 4 60 -60 -66
37 32 15 5 75 180 105 39
38 5 14 4 56 144 88 127
39 22 R 13 3 39 -39 88
40 5 R 13 4 52 -52 36



-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 15, 06:30 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 15.3.16  KTF +42 #14

Celticknits think you'll like these
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 15.3.16
1 22
2 4
3 0
4 27
5 9
6 1
7 0
8 12
9 8
10 12
11 9
12 3
13 9
14 29
15 31
16 6
17 34
18 21
19 33
20 14
21 32
22 31
23 3
24 8
25 34
26 11
27 28
28 7
29 30
30 4
31 24
32 13
33 16
34 35
35 14
36 17
37 11
38 11
39 36
40 3
41 4
42 24
43 23
44 7
45 2
46 25
47 10
48 25
49 23
50 18
51 20
52 3
53 30
54 33
55 34
56 36
57 31
58 3
59 11
60 36

61 6
62 28
63 33
64 6
65 17
66 22
67 0
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 15, 06:57 AM 2016
@ Celticknits. ... what's wrong with the first 8 spins?

4-5 hits on rng is suicide. No idea why.
3 is max to make profit.
On Airball 3 hits are perfectly possible. ..

Go figure. ... :o
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 15, 10:58 AM 2016
@ Celticknits. ... what's wrong with the first 8 spins?

4-5 hits on rng is suicide. No idea why.
3 is max to make profit.
On Airball 3 hits are perfectly possible. ..

Go figure. ... :o

-Denzie

Nothing is the matter with the first 8 spins if you are playing KTF because there is nothing you can do about them but ride the wave or quit but remember I am only playing the repeats and by resetting I am eliminating most of the repeats that show up in the second set of 10 numbers which is where I am watching the count and looking for the opportunity to start betting.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 15, 11:31 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 15.3.16  KTF +42 #14

Celticknits think you'll like these
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 15.3.16
1 22
2 4
3 0
4 27
5 9
6 1
7 0
8 12
9 8
10 12
11 9
12 3
13 9
14 29
15 31
16 6
17 34
18 21
19 33
20 14
21 32
22 31
23 3
24 8
25 34
26 11
27 28
28 7
29 30
30 4
31 24
32 13
33 16
34 35
35 14
36 17
37 11
38 11
39 36
40 3
41 4
42 24
43 23
44 7
45 2
46 25
47 10
48 25
49 23
50 18
51 20
52 3
53 30
54 33
55 34
56 36
57 31
58 3
59 11
60 36

61 6
62 28
63 33
64 6
65 17
66 22
67 0

-Notto

Oh yeah!!!
+$84 in 5 spins
Gotta love it.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 16, 06:28 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 16.03.16 KTF +43 #4
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 16.3.16
1 21
2 22
3 26
4 25
5 27
6 17
7 27
8 15
9 3
10 33
11 13
12 36
13 21
14 19
15 6
16 18
17 21
18 30
19 19
20 4
21 4
22 7
23 36
24 23
25 33
26 34
27 31
28 14
29 1
30 3
31 22
32 10
33 17
34 10
35 24
36 27
37 18
38 16
39 36
40 8
41 6
42 15
43 21
44 6
45 28
46 14
47 31
48 25
49 17
50 34
51 5
52 20
53 22
54 9
55 15
56 12
57 2
58 9
59 30
60 22

61 11
62 17
63 10
64 31
65 22
66 17
67 30
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 16, 01:02 PM 2016
Yesterdays excursion to the B&M.
American 00 wheel.
This would have been the KTF outcome.

Code: [Select]
S	#	R	Bet	P	Stake	Won	Net	Total
1 10
2 36
3 15
4 0
5 27
6 29
7 34
8 33
9 1
10 22
11 32 28 1 28 36 8 8
12 3 27 1 27 36 9 17
13 16 26 1 26 36 10 27
14 27 R 25 1 25 -25 2
15 26 25 2 50 72 22 24
16 25 24 1 24 36 12 36------ Would have quit here -----------
17 9 23 1 23 36 13 49
18 15 R 22 1 22 -22 27
19     2 22 2 44 72 28 55
20 21 21 1 21 36 15 70
21 6 20 1 20 36 16 86-------Count is 8+3 ---- Started betting repeats ---
22    16 R 19 1 19 -19 67
23    36 R 19 2 38 -38 29
24    15 R 19 3 57 -57 -28
25    16 R 19 4 76 -76 -104
26    34 R 19 5 95 -95 -199
27 29 R 19 6 114 -114 -313
28 31 19 7 133 252 119 -194
29 9 R 18 6 108 -108 -302
30 19 18 7 126 252 126 -176

I have come to the conclusion that one of the reasons I have done EXTREMELY well with this is my patience in waiting for a good count before betting the repeats.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 16, 01:41 PM 2016
Good job, Celtic!
What strategy were you playing till now?

For how long before are you playing Roulette, if it is not too much to ask!?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Foolwise on Mar 16, 05:28 PM 2016
Can some one tell me what 8-3 means. Is it the number of repeaters - non-repeaters?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 16, 05:56 PM 2016
Its to do with spins 11-30. It seems fair to say you get 15 non-hit in 30 spins, can be +/- either way or dead on.
 If you break it down to 3 blocks of 10 spins, you'd expect to get 5 non-hit in each 10 spins, so todays spins 11-20 got 7 non-hit so +2, so fast trot more non-hit than repeats
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 16, 06:09 PM 2016
2 games earlier tonight on FOBT.
1st game got the 15 non-hit in 30 spins, game 2 was -2, but you can see 1st game was -1 in spins 11-20 where as game 2 was +0

What you have to decide is are you going to play KTF which is just betting the non-hits with +1/-1 or are you going to watch the trot of 0x's verses 1x's and >1x's,if you choose this way then you'll need to watch how the 1x's are behaving and later the 1x's+>1x's, as at the start all 37 non-hit are DUE
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Foolwise on Mar 16, 06:15 PM 2016
Thank you very much nottophammer. You now got me confused. Spins 11-30 is 20 spins. The average of non-hits in 30 spins is 15. We are starting to play after 10 spins of no repeats. Then in the remaining 20 spins we should expect 5 non-hits and 15 repeaters. Why are we playing KTF on non-hits and not repeaters. Common sense says play for repeaters as we can expect repeaters 15 times and non-hits only 5 times. It is quite possible that am not able to see the obvious.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 16, 06:28 PM 2016
yes my mistake 11-40 been a long day
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 16, 06:58 PM 2016
FW
Heres the last 3 days from Jackpot 247.com
All 3 games spins 11-20 more non-hit than repeats. On the 15.3.16 spins 21-30 50/50 with non-hit and repeats. All 3 games end 40th spin in favour of non-hits.
If you want to go for repeats best look over Celticknits replies
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Big EZ on Mar 16, 07:53 PM 2016

I have come to the conclusion that one of the reasons I have done EXTREMELY well with this is my patience in waiting for a good count before betting the repeats.

-Celtic

What do you find to be a good count, is there a certain threshold
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 12:00 AM 2016
Good job, Celtic!
What strategy were you playing till now?

For how long before are you playing Roulette, if it is not too much to ask!?

-Nextyear

I am not sure if you are asking how long I have been playing roulette or when I started to bet the repeats on my 15Mar16 post so I will give you both answers.
1. I joined the forum on January 12, 2016 to learn about roulette.
Prior to that I did not play roulette at all.
I am not new to gambling however and have played blackjack for almost 40 years.
With all the rule changes in blackjack I decided I would look for another game to concentrate on.
2. I started to bet for the repeats on spin #21 but remember I am not playing KTF I am playing for repeats to hit.

I am not using any other strategy and tried a few others very briefly in the beginning but it took too long to make money with them.
No need to play any other strategy as I am making a killing playing for repeats and leave the casino within an hour with around $100.00 profit which is the stop level that I set for myself.

NOTE: If you look at ALL the posts in this thread you will see where I gave several sources for the information that I use to play the repeats.

To respect Notto I only post all of the numbers for that session and the KTF payout sheet, after all, this is a KTF thread.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 12:06 AM 2016
What do you find to be a good count, is there a certain threshold

-Big EZ

8+3 at spin #20 is good for me.

Not sure what you mean by a threshold.
My win threshold is +$100 / session if that is what you mean.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 17, 01:47 AM 2016
Thanks Celtic,

yes I was asking for overall (gambling) experience.
As I have almost none, it's good to hear that you didn't lose your shirt after 40 years of trying...

I think it is all explained with KTF (Thanks Notto!  :thumbsup:), but your successful playing on repeats is still enigmatic.

I also, as EZ, don't follow what is 8+3 in your counting...

 
What do you find to be a good count, is there a certain threshold

For threshold he asks if 7+2 or 6+2 (whatever this is) would be enough good count.

Your posts and tables are also very helpful (to have them, for time when one decide to go for deeper analysis).

Thanks Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 17, 05:05 AM 2016
I want to ask a little bit more about the RFH. How do you decide when the trot is not favorable to bet on? When do you decide that the trot is slow and has to many repeaters in the beginning?

I mean the trot is not revealing itself before spin 13 if it is a fast or slow trot. Because we want to have a fast trot with a lot of unhits. If we start at 11 and bet for unhits you are betting without knowing what is going to happen...

Winkel wrote this for example:
First Point we do a check is spin 13:

We expect (see above) 10-11 different numbers.
If we have 13 different hit numbers we call this trot "fast"
If we have less than 10 hit different numbers we call this trot "slow"

Do you use some more variables than spin 13 to see this?
Are you using the AVG document? I mean the only thing we know is the first 10 numbers. Can we use that information some how?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ramonnetje on Mar 17, 05:51 AM 2016
Hi Notto, you keep mentioning that the avg in 30spins in 15.70212.. which means 5 non hits for each box of 10. The problem with this I think is that the probability that a non hit occurs in box 11-20 is much more likely than a hit for box 31-40 given that more cookies have neem eaten from the yar in box 31-40 and the likelihood one will be eaten again is relatively smaller than for box 11-20. Than my question is, if the likelihood a non hit will fall is not linear over 11-20/21-30/31-40 as you mention but more logarithmic, how does that affect your TROT and moreover how do I have to interpret it? I see you writing down for example 8+3, 5+0 etc to watch the trot, but the TROT over 11-40 is not linear, how exactly do I have to intepret this trend over the sequence of numbers?

Thank you
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ramonnetje on Mar 17, 06:18 AM 2016
I want to ask a little bit more about the RFH. How do you decide when the trot is not favorable to bet on? When do you decide that the trot is slow and has to many repeaters in the beginning?

I mean the trot is not revealing itself before spin 13 if it is a fast or slow trot. Because we want to have a fast trot with a lot of unhits. If we start at 11 and bet for unhits you are betting without knowing what is going to happen...

Winkel wrote this for example:
Do you use some more variables than spin 13 to see this?
Are you using the AVG document? I mean the only thing we know is the first 10 numbers. Can we use that information some how?

tuddilue. I think that is a very good and relevant question. I am wondering what is the answer to that one. When is the trot (un)favorabel?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 06:35 AM 2016
 ramonnetje
Lets forget the Maths as KTF is just about betting non-hits. It's simple even my mother-in-law can do it, you have 10 spins, lets say no repeat, now you just bet the non-hit using +1/-1, when you stop is up to you.

Now the maths part, i'm no maths person, so all i see is over a few hundred recorded games is spins 11-40 gives on avg  15.70212 numbers, so i conveniently drop the point part,thus 15 non-hit in 30 spins. I do remember i should round it up,but i dont.
So if  11-20/21-30/31-40 achive 15 non-hit i think you should see 5 non-hit in each group, like you say 11-20 should have the larger group of non-hit which is what i want in KTF the non-hit hitting.
 I see you writing down for example 8+3, 5+0 etc to watch the trot, okay if you've had 10 non-hit in spins 1-10, 27 non-hit left, so as you sit there watching spins 11-20 and like you say we should still see more non-hit than 1 hits, so you've waited till 20 spins have past and in spins 11-20 you got 8 non-hit, so 8 would be 3 more than the expected 5, +3.
Now with the trot showing 18 non-hit have come, what is going to show up,perhaps a 50/50 of 0X's and 1X's, i know i would favour going for the one- hits.
Its just an aid to watch the trot.
Now some good words from Azim to understand the trot you need to practice,practice, but for a simple method that you dont care what the trot is doing is KTF just betting non-hit.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ramonnetje on Mar 17, 07:36 AM 2016
Hi Notto,
Thanks for you fast response. Sure I want to play KTF but since you have mentioned the importance of the trot I want to fully understand it to benefit from it. I can understand that the trot is supposed to be a tool to aid you in your betting process. However, what I fail to understand that understanding the trot is something that comes with experience (Like Azim says). I mean, once we know the rules, we know how to apply them, therefor experience in this matter is irrelevant. If this, than that.

With all due respect "So if  11-20/21-30/31-40 achive 15 non-hit i think you should see 5 non-hit in each group, like you say 11-20 should have the larger group of non-hit which is what i want in KTF the non-hit hitting."  this is simply not true. The likelihood for hit/non hit to occur over 11-20/21-30/31-40 is NOT equally divided among the three groups. I think if yo would look at your data sheet and count the avarage ratio hit/non hit for box 2,3 and 4 you can see that the trend is not linear. This does not say i disapprove of the trot, it just makes me wonder how to understand it correctly. What is the trend and how does the development of the trend aids me in the betting process.

If I look at it from a common sense point of view I would just say plot a graph that shows the avarage distribution of the hit non/hit over box 2,3 and 4. This is the average and any deviation from the avarage aids you in your betting process. For example if the mean is 5 and deviation from that mean is 3 hits (i.e. 5+3) than the likelihood that a non hit occurs has increased apposed to a situation where the has not occured.

What do you think


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Big EZ on Mar 17, 08:11 AM 2016
Celtic,
Thanks for your answer. As far as threshold is concerned I meant in regards to the count.

8+3
7+2
6+1

I was just basically wondering if you have a preference



I also, as EZ, don't follow what is 8+3 in your counting...


nextyear.....
Please do not assume I do not know what is going on and speak on my behalf. Thank you
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 08:38 AM 2016
You want to play KTF, you dont need to watch the trot as you just betting non-hit, so no need for trot watching.
Now box 2,3,4, well look what happens on todays Jackpot 247.com, box 2 +0, box 3 +0 box 4 -1. So box 2,3 the trot is 50/50. The next spin KTF is finished +41 it does not need to know what the trot is doing as i said is just betting the non-hit.

Now, Winkel,i hope would say if your watching the trot  and you see spins 32 to 37 are repeats, what would your decision be, to carry on and bet for more repeats, No, at 37 spins we've only had 21 non-hit, so you would now surely go for non-hit,look it balances out 6 non-hit on the bounce.

At the end of the day MATH says you will get caught, but when, KTF using jackpot 247.com has lost once in 83 games. Why, to me, because it uses the larger group non-hit.

To me the DUE argument, when you arrive what have you got, 37 non-hit, 50% of jackpot games are 9/10 in spins 1-10, so the larger group are more favorable to bet.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 08:39 AM 2016
+41
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)	
0 37
1 29 36
2 17 35
3 32 34
4 2 33
5 31 32
6 14 31
7 0 30
8 34 29
9 28 28 stake
10 21 27 non-hit return
11 20 26 1 27 36 9
12 27 25 1 26 36 19
13 14 r 1 25 0 -6
14 11 24 2 50 72 16
15 34 r 1 24 0 -8
16 20 r 2 48 0 -56
17 9 23 3 72 108 -20
18 34 r 2 46 0 -66
19 6 22 3 69 108 -27
20 34 r 2 44 0 -71
21 13 21 3 66 108 -29
22 32 r 2 42 0 -71
23 18 20 3 63 108 -26
24 19 19 2 40 72 6
25 27 r 1 19 0 -13
26 11 r 2 38 0 -51
27 7 18 3 57 108 0
28 18 r 2 36 0 -36
29 26 17 3 54 108 18
30 31 r 2 34 0 -16
31 4 16 3 51 108 41 stop
32 34 r 4
33 21 r 5
34 7 r 6
35 14 r 7
36 21 r 8
37 32 r 9
38 33 15 10
39 3 14 9
40 35 13 8
41 10 12 7
42 1 11 6
43 22 10 5
44 2 r
45 29 9
46 8 r
47 17 r
48 2 r
49 17 r
50 18 r
51 19 r
52 32 r
53 20 r
54 5 8
55 35 r
56 12 7
57 5 r
58 2 r
59 16 6
60 22

61 21
62 9
63 35
64 24
65 30
66 2
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 17, 09:24 AM 2016
I also, as EZ, don't follow what is 8+3 in your counting...
For threshold he asks if 7+2 or 6+2 (whatever this is) would be enough good count.

Sorry, just understood that it is the same 8+3 from KTF!
For a moment I thought you have your own 8+3 for repeaters...

Just forget it, please.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 17, 09:38 AM 2016
Its just an aid to watch the trot.
Now some good words from Azim to understand the trot you need to practice,practice, but for a simple method that you dont care what the trot is doing is KTF just betting non-hit.
Thanks notto for a quick answer!
Yes it was as I suspected it is really hard to know when the RFH will arrive. You need more data if you are going to use the GUT to figure it out. I totally agree that KTF is a simple method that is betting non-hit and that its works.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ramonnetje on Mar 17, 09:39 AM 2016
Well sure that distribution looks really nice, but one sample does not represent the whole population, obviously. Anyway, I get you are betting for the larger group and that larger groups represent better odds for winning. However, larger groups of non hits also mean larger bets. And once you loose one round, you need to win more than one round to make up for the loss. Therefor it is all relative. I bet if you do the math, chance to win (36/hits) x betting amount < chance to loose (36/non hits) x betting amount

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 17, 09:58 AM 2016


At the end of the day MATH says you will get caught, but when, KTF using jackpot 247.com has lost once in 83 games. Why, to me, because it uses the larger group non-hit.



Notto I am beyond convinced that ktf works.

The one bust you had in 83 games, what was the stop loss?

Whatever stop loss you are using works if you only have to use it 1 out of 83 times

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 10:54 AM 2016
Now if you really like to know box 2 avg is 7 non-hit,box 3 avg is 5 and box 4  avg is 3. But you'll give some math jargon that means not a lot to me.
Like maestro if your going to talk z score, other math stuff, dont bother as i will be betting non-hit not waiting for the math to kick in
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Foolwise on Mar 17, 11:15 AM 2016
Well sure that distribution looks really nice, but one sample does not represent the whole population, obviously. Anyway, I get you are betting for the larger group and that larger groups represent better odds for winning. However, larger groups of non hits also mean larger bets. And once you loose one round, you need to win more than one round to make up for the loss. Therefor it is all relative. I bet if you do the math, chance to win (36/hits) x betting amount < chance to loose (36/non hits) x betting amount
Believe me ramonnetje, I had the same views when I looked at this yesterday. But after playing through several series, and running simulations through multiple sets I can better see whats happening here. You are absolutely right in terms of larger groups mean larger bets and you need to win more than one round to make for the losses. And the formula is also only true if you are doing flat bets. Largely there is a correlation between what is happening in spins 1-10 and 11-40. Sure there are outliers. In my trials I have also got 10 non-hits in the first 10, but only one non-hit in the next 30. Following is how it looks like for the first 10 spins and the next 40 for over 1600 trials of 40 spins.

(http://link:://oi67.tinypic.com/154yhrc.jpg)

Am getting an average non-hit of 16.5 in 11-30 when considering only 10 non-hits and 9 non-hits in the first 10 spins. Sure that comes down from 16.9 when i consider all possibilities in 10 spins. It all comes down to finding the optimum number to go for and then the progression associated with it, as there are hundreds of possibilities depending on the position in which the non-hits come through. Earlier they come the better and 11-20 is really the key.

After all as the name indicates, I think one should just Keep the faith and go blind when playing this one. I am getting similar results like notto in my trials so far.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ramonnetje on Mar 17, 12:27 PM 2016
Notto: and surely I respect that. It is not that I am not disapproving anything you do, I just want to make sense out of it. But so far your strategy has been paying off so no complaints  ;D Good luck!

Foolwise: that looks really interesting. Do you think you would be able incorporate bankroll progression for all the 1600 trials? Than look at box 2,3,4. In how many of the trials would you end up with $40+ and how many trials do not reach 40$ and eventually will bust putting the tresshold at $-400. Omitting the human factor that tells us when to quite or not, just looking at raw data. Do you see that the total of $40+ trials when accumulated is larger than the total of losses? What does it tell you? I am also interested whether there is a difference for 7/10, 8/10, 9/10 and 10/10. Furthermore I am interested how the winnings are distributed over box 1 (11-20), 2(21-30), 3(31-40). Would you be capable of looking into that? I think that would provide us with some sort of proof right, and moreover first step towards creating some rules. I think for example if we could say that when 9/10 and you have 2/3 hits on 11-15 you should continue betting because the odds are in your favor by x%. What do you think? In the end we cannot predict something that is randomized, however you can try to benefit from certain trends and progression of numbers. Atleast that is what I think
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Foolwise on Mar 17, 12:37 PM 2016
I will try guvnor. Not now though, as I am bit short of time. But this is a very interesting one for me and I will send updates as soon as am able to do something about this.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 01:58 PM 2016
Here are my B&M American 00 Wheel numbers from yesterday March 16th and the KTF payout sheet.

-Notto
Correct me if I am wrong but I think that it could be safely said that betting KTF is a method, follow the rules and you win more than you lose.
In comparison betting repeats is a strategy and there are decisions YOU have to make.

To clarify I only bet the repeats for several reasons:
1. There is more control over when you want to start betting --- In KTF you start betting the unhit numbers at spin #11 and ride the wave or pick a spot to quit with a win or loss.
2. I have found that the drawdowns are a lot smaller betting the repeats --- In the numbers posted here look at the bet at spin #46. Myself, I am not willing to risk $902 to make the $30-$40 KTF win limit.
3. I want to spend as little time as possible looking for approximately a $100 win. With todays posted numbers I started betting the repeats at spin #27 and quit after spin #31 with $78 profit which means I was only sitting at the table for a total of 16 spins, and only betting on 5 spins.

I would suggest that if you are interested in betting repeats you take todays posted numbers, or your own, and see how you would have bet the repeats.

AT THIS TIME I WOULD LIKE TO AGAIN APOLOGIZE TO NOTTO FOR BRINGING UP BETTING REPEATS AND STATE THAT I WILL NOT ANSWER ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS REGARDING REPEATS IN THIS THREAD. THIS IS THE KTF THREAD AND KTF HAS A SET METHOD OF PLAY THAT HAS BEEN OUTLINED MANY TIMES IN IT'S PAGES. IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION REGARDING BETTING REPEATS PLEASE PM ME.

March 16 1016 KTF payout sheet

Code: [Select]

S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 34 28 1 28 36 8 8
12 00 27 1 27 36 9 17
13 5 R 26 1 26 -26 -9
14 14 R 26 2 52 -52 -61
15 12 R 26 3 78 -78 -139
16 24 26 4 104 144 40 -99
17 33 25 3 75 108 33 -66
18 18 R 24 2 48 -48 -114
19 19 R 24 3 72 -72 -186
20 9 24 4 96 144 48 -138
21 24 R 23 3 69 -69 -207
22 4 R 23 4 92 -92 -299
23 15 23 5 115 180 65 -234
24 31 22 4 88 144 56 -178
25 21 21 3 63 108 45 -133
26 32 20 2 40 72 32 -101
27 29 19 1 19 36 17 -84
28 21 R 18 1 18 -18 -102
29 00 R 18 2 36 -36 -138
30 34 R 18 3 54 -54 -192
31 5 R 18 4 72 -72 -264
32 26 18 5 90 180 90 -174
33 25 17 4 68 144 76 -98
34 12 R 16 3 48 -48 -146
35 15 R 16 4 64 -64 -210
36 00 R 16 5 80 -80 -290
37 11 16 6 96 216 120 -170
38 31 R 15 5 75 -75 -245
39 30 R 15 6 90 -90 -335
40 6 15 7 105 252 147 -188
41 14 R 14 6 84 -84 -272
42 15 R 14 7 98 -98 -370 ----------- Suggested BR for KTF is $400 ---Now what???
43 15 R 14 8 112 -112 -482
44 35 R 14 9 126 -126 -608
45 11 R 14 10 140 -140 -748----------------- Next bet is a $902 risk
46 8 14 11 154 396 242 -506
47 3 13 10 130 360 230 -276
48 2 12 9 108 324 216 -60
49 1 11 8 88 288 200 140
50 3 R 10 7 70 -70 70
51 33 R 10 8 80 -80 -10
52 0 10 9 90 324 234 224
53 36 9 8 72 288 216 440
54 22 8 7 56 252 196 636
55 7 7 6 42 216 174 810
56 14 R 6 5 30 -30 780


-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 02:09 PM 2016
Celts your box 2,3,4 look fimilar, oh yes todays jackpots boxes as the mathboys call them. Must be a fluke >:D
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 17, 02:11 PM 2016
Notto I am beyond convinced that ktf works.

The one bust you had in 83 games, what was the stop loss?

Whatever stop loss you are using works if you only have to use it 1 out of 83 times

Thanks

Notto. You had 1 bust. What was your stoploss?. Thanks

Word on the street is 400. Thanks again
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 17, 02:21 PM 2016
@ Celticknits. .... I would choose a different session. Or next table   ;D
What I do frequently is go for 1 hit if the count not good. Don't we always get 1 hit ?
Over 400 rng sessions now. And I had 1 ....yes 1 session where I didn't got 1 hit. (Yes real money). Best thing I ever seen.

Any of you guys/girls know some online live casino where you have 45 seconds or more to place your bets ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 17, 02:29 PM 2016
@ Celticknits. .... I would choose a different session. Or next table   ;D
What I do frequently is go for 1 hit if the count not good. Don't we always get 1 hit ?
Over 400 rng sessions now. And I had 1 ....yes 1 session where I didn't got 1 hit. (Yes real money). Best thing I ever seen.

Any of you guys/girls know some online live casino where you have 45 seconds or more to place your bets ?
So this is your 10 progression you where talking the other day? So it is working?

He he of course I now a live casino  :wink:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 02:38 PM 2016
Celts your box 2,3,4 look fimilar, oh yes todays jackpots boxes as the mathboys call them. Must be a fluke >:D

-Notto

I do not see it.

When I play I use a sheet similiar to yours but it is such a mess by the end of the session that I also record the numbers onto one of the cards provided by the casino and use it to make up the charts posted. Attached is that card from yesterdays session.

Edited:------I  think see what you mean. Was not aware you were talking about the trot/count and thought you were talking about the actual numbers. Boy that would have been interesting.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 02:46 PM 2016
@ Celticknits. .... I would choose a different session. Or next table   ;D
I would too but as we only have one table at my casino I just do a reset

What I do frequently is go for 1 hit if the count not good. Don't we always get 1 hit ?
Over 400 rng sessions now. And I had 1 ....yes 1 session where I didn't got 1 hit. (Yes real money). Best thing I ever seen.

Any of you guys/girls know some online live casino where you have 45 seconds or more to place your bets ?
Had to laugh....It is a challenge getting the bets out there at the beginning sometimes.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 02:52 PM 2016
 denzie
try jackpot247.com its airball think they have 45 seconds
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 17, 03:01 PM 2016
So this is your 10 progression you where talking the other day? So it is working?

He he of course I now a live casino  :wink:

No no , this is playing NCRS .

I need ONLINE live casino  ;)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 17, 03:02 PM 2016
denzie
try jackpot247.com its airball think they have 45 seconds

Alright thanks Notto. Good idea actually. As I win on ALL your sheets posted here.

More casino's?  Anyone?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 17, 03:06 PM 2016
@ Celticknits. .. on airball it's very doable. Coz here you can set your unit size first. So we maximum need to put 15 bets out there.

The important issue is that we have a table layout on paper for placing our bets from left to right. If you need to start mixing and searching then.....rip
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 17, 03:26 PM 2016
No no , this is playing NCRS .

I need ONLINE live casino  ;)
I think the airball at Bwin also is 45s. Will be interesting to see how it goes, good luck  :smile:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 03:32 PM 2016
@ Celticknits. .. on airball it's very doable. Coz here you can set your unit size first. So we maximum need to put 15 bets out there.

The important issue is that we have a table layout on paper for placing our bets from left to right. If you need to start mixing and searching then.....rip


-Denzie

re-The important issue is that we have a table layout on paper for placing our bets from left to right. If you need to start mixing and searching then.....rip


RIP is right.
You always make me laugh.

I think we have all been there done that but even with 50 seconds I have come down to the wire several times and nearly missed placing the bets in KTF because I am placing up to 28 bets on first spin of KTF. Then of course there's the time that another player asks you to explain how you are betting as you are trying to get the bets out there.

-Celtic

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 17, 03:36 PM 2016
I think the airball at Bwin also is 45s. Will be interesting to see how it goes, good luck  :smile:

Thx, I'll check it out.

Btw...speaking of a 10 step progression on max 10 numbers. .... I checked all my sheets  (and there a looooot ).... if I would bet on spin 11 only of each session with the progression I posted....max I get was 9 steps. Not one bust in over 400 sessions! 
So track 10 spins. Bet those on spin 11. I don't play this but it catches my eyes.  :)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 17, 03:42 PM 2016

I think we have all been there done that but even with 50 seconds I have come down to the wire several times and nearly missed placing the bets in KTF because I am placing up to 28 bets on first spin of KTF. Then of course there's the time that another player asks you to explain how you are betting as you are trying to get the bets out there.

-Celtic

I agree...28 is a lot. Stress kicking in. Lol
When it comes down to some guys asking questions. ...I totally 100% ignore them till I'm done. And even then I ain't saying nothing. They probably think I'm a *ss hole
..but I'm not there to make friends  ;)
Sometimes I have the ipod in with no music. I just pretend I don't see or hear them. I know. ..it's not nice....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 04:08 PM 2016
Okay to get over placing 28 chips you could do like i have on occasions when Mrs hammer has come to the B+M, one places the 1st 18 the other places the top 18, so you've halved the table.
nothing wrong in having a partner you can make the wins,so its just split between two.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 04:29 PM 2016
Okay to get over placing 28 chips you could do like i have on occasions when Mrs hammer has come to the B+M, one places the 1st 18 the other places the top 18, so you've halved the table.
nothing wrong in having a partner you can make the wins,so its just split between two.

Now that's a great idea.
How much does she get paid for helping? :wink:

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 04:53 PM 2016
The $20 she lost on the slots
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 04:54 PM 2016
83 games not long to the 100
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 05:02 PM 2016
The $20 she lost on the slots

The same pay scale I use.
Great.

And, thank you for the updated Average sheet.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 06:31 PM 2016
Thought we'd see and yes we get the win.
Now those repeats 21-30 Celtic how much they worth. Got 15 non-hit by 38th spin so +1 at 39th spin and still a spin to come
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 07:08 PM 2016
Thought we'd see and yes we get the win.
Now those repeats 21-30 Celtic how much they worth. Got 15 non-hit by 38th spin so +1 at 39th spin and still a spin to come

-Notto

I am only answering about the repeats because YOU asked.

Remember I take down the repeats when they hit and I always bet the 0 whether they are included in the initial set or not.
I am only looking for 3-4 Wins ie. around $100

-Celtic

Code: [Select]
		FOOLWISE 17MAR16 (REPEATS)						
21 0 R 17 1 17 36 19 19
22 32 16 1 16 -16 3
23 27 R 16 2 32 72 40 43
24 9 R 15 1 15 36 21 64
25 2 14 1 14 -14 50
26 11 R 14 2 28 72 44 94 --- I would have quit here ---
27 4 R 13 1 13 36 23 117
28 26 R 12 1 12 36 24 141
29 6 R 11 1 11 36 25 166
30 35 10 1 10 -10 156
31 1 10 2 20 -20 136
32 35 10 3 30 -30 106
33 11 10 4 40 -40 66
34 4 10 5 50 -50 16
35 5 10 6 60 -60 -44
36 14 10 7 70 -70 -114
37 22 R 10 8 80 288 208 94
38 34 9 7 63 -63 31
39 30 9 6 54 -54 -23

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Foolwise on Mar 17, 07:23 PM 2016
The next few spins were

34, 13, 31, 31, 30, 20, 6, 17, 20, 30, 35, 9, 3, 28, 12, 19

And by the way, very good win  ::)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 17, 07:47 PM 2016
Hammer

You have put so much effort into these sheets and explaining

Im grateful

Need more like you
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 18, 03:23 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 18.3.16  KTF +40
Hi RG a thousand units handles this game to the end where it wins +108, but me i'd be happy with the +40


Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)	
0 37
1 24 36
2 17 35
3 20 34
4 26 33
5 5 32
6 8 31
7 17 r
8 5 r
9 13 30 stake
10 22 29 non-hit return
11 23 28 1 29 36 7
12 9 27 1 28 36 15
13 29 26 1 27 36 24
14 24 r 1 26 0 -2
15 1 25 2 52 72 18
16 24 r 1 25 0 -7
17 13 r 2 50 0 -57
18 31 24 3 75 108 -24
19 23 r 2 48 0 -72
20 32 23 3 72 108 -36
21 20 r 2 46 0 -82
22 21 22 3 69 108 -43
23 2 21 2 44 72 -15
24 19 20 1 21 36 0
25 2 r 1 20 0 -20
26 19 r 2 40 0 -60
27 4 19 3 60 108 -12
28 35 18 2 38 72 22
29 12 17 1 18 36 40 stop
30 2 r 1 17 0 23
31 22 r 2 34 0 -11
32 12 r 3 51 0 -62
33 31 r 4 68 0 -130
34 34 16 5 85 180 -35
35 17 r 4 64 0 -99
36 31 r 5 80 0 -179
37 14 15 6 96 216 -59
38 9 r 5 75 0 -134
39 32 r 6 90 0 -224
40 34 r 7 105 0 -329
41 32 r 8 120 0 -449
42 24 r 9 135 0 -584
43 24 r 10 150 0 -734
44 18 14 11 165 396 -503
45 18 r 10 140 0 -643
46 30 13 11 154 396 -401
47 36 12 10 130 360 -171
48 9 r 9 108 0 -279
49 10 11 10 120 360 -39
50 29 r 9 99 0 -138
51 14 r 10 110 0 -248
52 3 10 11 121 396 27
53 2 r 10 100 0 -73
54 35 r 11 110 0 -183
55 3 r 12 120 0 -303
56 9 r 13 130 0 -433
57 5 r 14 140 0 -573
58 28 9 15 150 540 -183
59 14 r 14 126 0 -309
60 9 r 15 135 0 -444
0 -444
61 25 8 16 144 576 -12
62 36 r 15 120 0 -132
63 30 r 16 128 0 -260
64 29 r 17 136 0 -396
65 15 7 18 144 648 108
66 12 r
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 18, 05:44 AM 2016
@ Celticknits. .... I would choose a different session. Or next table   ;D
What I do frequently is go for 1 hit if the count not good. Don't we always get 1 hit ?
Over 400 rng sessions now. And I had 1 ....yes 1 session where I didn't got 1 hit. (Yes real money). Best thing I ever seen.

Any of you guys/girls know some online live casino where you have 45 seconds or more to place your bets ?
@denzie
I'm a little curious about your 1 hit. When do you go for one hit? I mean what is your count? Or do you use the spin numbers? I mean after spin 5, 15, 21 for example?

How long is your progression? I understand that you are using +1/-1, but how many units before you stop?

How did it go for you on the online casinos, did it work?

Many questions sorry for that, but you got me curious when you say  "Best thing I ever seen."  :ooh:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 18, 08:30 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 18.3.16  KTF +40
Hi RG a thousand units handles this game to the end where it wins +108, but me i'd be happy with the +40


Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)	
0 37
1 24 36
2 17 35
3 20 34
4 26 33
5 5 32
6 8 31
7 17 r
8 5 r
9 13 30 stake
10 22 29 non-hit return
11 23 28 1 29 36 7
12 9 27 1 28 36 15
13 29 26 1 27 36 24
14 24 r 1 26 0 -2
15 1 25 2 52 72 18
16 24 r 1 25 0 -7
17 13 r 2 50 0 -57
18 31 24 3 75 108 -24
19 23 r 2 48 0 -72
20 32 23 3 72 108 -36
21 20 r 2 46 0 -82
22 21 22 3 69 108 -43
23 2 21 2 44 72 -15
24 19 20 1 21 36 0
25 2 r 1 20 0 -20
26 19 r 2 40 0 -60
27 4 19 3 60 108 -12
28 35 18 2 38 72 22
29 12 17 1 18 36 40 stop
30 2 r 1 17 0 23
31 22 r 2 34 0 -11
32 12 r 3 51 0 -62
33 31 r 4 68 0 -130
34 34 16 5 85 180 -35
35 17 r 4 64 0 -99
36 31 r 5 80 0 -179
37 14 15 6 96 216 -59
38 9 r 5 75 0 -134
39 32 r 6 90 0 -224
40 34 r 7 105 0 -329
41 32 r 8 120 0 -449
42 24 r 9 135 0 -584
43 24 r 10 150 0 -734
44 18 14 11 165 396 -503
45 18 r 10 140 0 -643
46 30 13 11 154 396 -401
47 36 12 10 130 360 -171
48 9 r 9 108 0 -279
49 10 11 10 120 360 -39
50 29 r 9 99 0 -138
51 14 r 10 110 0 -248
52 3 10 11 121 396 27
53 2 r 10 100 0 -73
54 35 r 11 110 0 -183
55 3 r 12 120 0 -303
56 9 r 13 130 0 -433
57 5 r 14 140 0 -573
58 28 9 15 150 540 -183
59 14 r 14 126 0 -309
60 9 r 15 135 0 -444
0 -444
61 25 8 16 144 576 -12
62 36 r 15 120 0 -132
63 30 r 16 128 0 -260
64 29 r 17 136 0 -396
65 15 7 18 144 648 108
66 12 r

Yes im seeing if you get close to being -100 you may sweat a bit but the unhits have to hit eventually and you rebound

Good man
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 18, 12:11 PM 2016
@denzie
I'm a little curious about your 1 hit. When do you go for one hit? I mean what is your count?

If the count is +0 , +1 , +2 I go for 1 hit. Normally I start at spin 21. But here I wait till spin 23. If we didn't got a virtual hit then I go in. Make 1 hit and stop. Reset to new session.

How long is your progression? I understand that you are using +1/-1, but how many units before you stop?

As long it takes to get in profit. With a max of 420 units. (7 losses in a row). But let's say we get to high in the progression. Let's say at 5 or 6 units. And I get my hit. Then I look how much I'm down. If it's around -50 then I take the loss. Coz we get it back next session

How did it go for you on the online casinos, did it work?

Extremely good. Every day I gained 2-4 br

  "Best thing I ever seen."  :ooh:
 Yep, didn't saw anything like this. I not even bother to play my other stuff. Btw it's RNG  ;)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 18, 01:04 PM 2016

Thanks @denzie for all your good answers!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 18, 06:46 PM 2016
Celtic please start a new thread explaining the count for repeaters. Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 19, 12:16 AM 2016
Celtic please start a new thread explaining the count for repeaters. Thanks

-RG

I have to respectfully decline your offer.

Smarter people than me have already done, or attempted, this and I saw what happened to them.
Do a search on the main screen for "Winkel" or "Holy Grail".
I have mentioned this before in the KTF posts but also check out Azim's and Two Cat Sams posts.
Two Cat Sam even has several lengthy videos on You Tube describing G.U.T.
Notto also has a lot of information in his JJ thread.

By the way, attached are a couple of screenshots of what you may run up against even though you have been directed to those pages.
Look at the tabs in these shots and you will see that they reference Winkel's material. These were taken a few minures ago.

A teacher of mine once told me that the nice thing about banging your head on a brick wall is that it feels so good when you stop.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 19, 01:54 AM 2016
I agree with both sides @Celticknits and @RouletteGhost.  I have also said before that we should create a new thread but I also understand your problem Celticknits...

When you read the old Winkel GUT thread almost every answer he has written is empty and that makes me sad..

But the problem remains because we can't discuss two threads in one. I do not want to start a new thread and that is because I started betting repeaters yesterday. 

The description that denzie did made all for me. Maybe we can start from there. But who dares to create a thread?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 19, 09:18 AM 2016
I agree with both sides @Celticknits and @RouletteGhost.  I have also said before that we should create a new thread but I also understand your problem Celticknits...

When you read the old Winkel GUT thread almost every answer he has written is empty and that makes me sad..

But the problem remains because we can't discuss two threads in one. I do not want to start a new thread and that is because I started betting repeaters yesterday. 

The description that denzie did made all for me. Maybe we can start from there. But who dares to create a thread?

-Tuddilue

Looks like you may have gotten your wish.

KTF's cousin named WTF (if everyone agrees) (http://link:://KTF's cousin named WTF (if everyone agrees))

Why not post the description that Denzie gave you into that new thread and we will see what transpires from there

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 19, 09:28 AM 2016
Try here:

link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16732.0
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 19, 10:23 AM 2016
Yes of course I can write my findings. But I can do that when. I am home. But it will take a couple of hours from now. Hope you can wait  :twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 19, 10:33 AM 2016
Jackpot 247 .com 19.03.16 KTF +50  Made a mistake in the other thread can you see it,
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 19, 10:37 AM 2016
I love this is unstoppable on airball

Notto on airball do you write down history board or do u collect 10 new spins then begin
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 20, 06:10 AM 2016
Hi RG
If its a rare visit to the B+M, i'd use the last 8#'s on marquee as they are part of the 37 or 38 #'s you are going to use. But as you know i play on FOBT and the machine might not have spun for x amount of time,so in this situation i collect 10 #'s.
Remember what Wiggy said if on 00 wheel lower the win.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 20, 06:26 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 20.03.16  KTF +53
As i was transfering the #'s to the sheet, i could hear Celtic on the other topic, if a # repeats 3 times he'd reset, but i could hear the song Bon Jon, Keep the Faith, yes spins 11-20 makes one Keep the Faith, but spins 21-30 have KTF heading in the right direction, spins 31-40 you would be thinking 5 more non-hit possible, yes they come.
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)	
0 37
1 2 36
2 17 35
3 9 34
4 4 33
5 29 32
6 17 r
7 19 31
8 20 30
9 10 29 stake
10 14 28 non-hit return
11 9 r 1 28 0 -28
12 31 27 2 56 72 -12
13 24 26 1 27 36 -3
14 4 r 1 26 0 -29
15 9 r 2 52 0 -81
16 20 r 3 78 0 -159
17 1 25 4 104 144 -119
18 17 r 3 75 0 -194
19 17 r 4 100 0 -294
20 5 24 5 125 180 -239
21 15 23 4 96 144 -191
22 35 22 3 69 108 -152
23 34 21 2 44 72 -124
24 28 20 1 21 36 -109
25 35 r 1 20 0 -129
26 22 19 2 40 72 -97
27 28 r 1 19 0 -116
28 35 r 2 38 0 -154
29 21 18 3 57 108 -103
30 22 r 2 36 0 -139
31 27 17 3 54 108 -85
32 7 16 2 34 72 -47
33 5 r 1 16 0 -63
34 33 15 2 32 72 -23
35 16 14 1 15 36 -2
36 23 13 1 14 36 20
37 15 r 1 13 0 7
38 8 12 2 26 72 53 stop
39 23 r
40 31 r
41 20 r
42 36 11
43 4 r
44 20 r
45 9 r
46 11 10
47 25 9
48 9 r
49 2 r
50 20 r
51 36 r
52 5 r
53 7 r
54 32 8
55 32 r
56 28 r
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 20, 07:46 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 20.03.16  KTF +53
As i was transfering the #'s to the sheet, i could hear Celtic on the other topic, if a # repeats 3 times he'd reset, but i could hear the song Bon Jon, Keep the Faith, yes spins 11-20 makes one Keep the Faith, but spins 21-30 have KTF heading in the right direction, spins 31-40 you would be thinking 5 more non-hit possible, yes they come.

-Notto

Just to clarify:
What I said was that I would not bet a number that had hit 3 times in the current sequence.
A reset, maybe, depending on the count and how I feel.

Todays JJ numbers are a case where actually the chances are I would not have played this at all because I would not have started betting until spin #46 when I was happy with the count but that would have meant I would have been at the table for at least an hour waiting for an entry point to start betting.
This has only happened at the B&M once or twice and in those cases I just went for a walk and came back later.

-Celtic


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 21, 05:55 AM 2016
KTF +41 #36
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 21.3.16
1 5
2 3
3 30
4 18
5 16
6 29
7 30
8 15
9 8
10 4
11 16
12 25
13 20
14 5
15 9
16 0
17 27
18 10
19 36
20 7
21 35
22 16
23 27
24 22
25 16
26 7
27 16
28 0
29 25
30 17
31 27
32 34
33 26
34 18
35 1
36 24
37 23
38 10
39 2
40 9
41 4
42 4
43 32
44 0
45 3
46 11
47 8
48 33
49 0
50 4
51 11
52 7
53 18
54 2
55 5
56 0
57 24
58 0
59 28
60 19

61 25
62 3
63 16
64 20
65 36
66 6
67 23
68 20
69 20
70 28
71 35
72 6
73 8
74 8
75 4
76 7
77 25
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 21, 07:10 AM 2016
Hey Notto,

Can you post your daily profit sheet?
Should starting to look really good
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 21, 05:26 PM 2016
On the drive to ladbrokes said to myself i bet this goes 1,2,1,2,3,4,3 units up high straight away.
So wrote the marquee #'s, theres 12 uniques to keep an eye on. Now i was on the 15th spin and could see the previous 4 spins no repeat of the marquee #'s, so i laid the 16, win, +5 using .25p units, thought nice.
Well you can see a great start, then it starts like i thought on the drive down.
So count in spins 11-20 5+0, but that dont have any baring on KTF, but nice to see the trot of the non-hit. we're at 4 units, be good if the non-hits come, get 6 so count is 11+1, so non-hits are just infront. before i know it we're back to 3/4 units, on 28th spin theres the 15 non-hits, think the meter said 99.75,but £5 is from the uniques, so i thought shall i drop back to 1 unit, but Keep the Faith is sounding so keep to the trot, 42nd spin out the door.
So always keep the Faith.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 21, 05:29 PM 2016
Daily profit
Code: [Select]
Date 	       win	lose 	  total
23.12.15 56
24.12.15 93
27.12.15 57
28.12.15 52
29.12.15 45
30.12.15 50
31.12.15 50
02.01.16 56
03.01.16 65
04.01.16 57
05.01.16 45
06.01.16 51
07.01.16 50
08.01.16 59
09.01.16 45
10.01.16 47
11.01.16 49
12.01.16 51
13.01.16 50
14.01.16 59
15.01.16 45
16.01.16 45
17.01.16 50
18.01.16 45
19.01.16 38
20.01.16 43
21.01.16 45 1398
22.01.16 655
23.01.16 52
24.01.16 50
25.01.16 38
26.01.16 50
27.01.16 38
28.01.16 57
29.01.16 48
30.01.16 54
31.01.16 56
01.02.16 46
02.02.16 51
03.02.16 45
04.02.16 54
05.02.16 46
06.02.16 39
07.02.16 45
08.02.16 42
09.02.16 44
10.02.16 53
11.02.16 34
12.02.16 38
13.02.16 47
14.02.16 45
15.02.16 50
16.02.16 59
17.02.16 45
18.02.16 56
19.02.16 29
20.02.16 59
21.02.16 45
22.02.16 66
23.02.16 38
24.02.16 51
25.02.16 53
26.02.16 57
27.02.16 50
28.02.16 53
29.02.16 44
01.03.16 52
02.03.16 53
03.03.16 63
04.03.16 45
05.03.16 50
06.03.16 51
07.03.16 41
08.03.16 49
09.03.16 45
10.03.16 47
11.03.16 53
12.03.16 79
13.03.16 66
14.03.16 46
15.03.16 42
16.03.16 43
17.03.16 41
18.03.16 40
19.03.16 50
20.03.16 53
21.03.16 41







4275 655 3620
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 22, 07:33 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 22.3.16  KTF +42
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 23, 06:27 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 23.3.16  KTF +50  #3
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 23.3.16
1 18
2 31
3 20
4 19
5 17
6 17
7 27
8 7
9 34
10 0
11 28
12 21
13 13
14 36
15 3
16 14
17 22
18 6
19 0
20 18
21 30
22 31
23 6
24 25
25 10
26 6
27 4
28 14
29 30
30 25
31 7
32 26
33 21
34 17
35 33
36 9
37 8
38 21
39 25
40 11
41 29
42 32
43 31
44 23
45 13
46 9
47 14
48 23
49 2
50 17
51 5
52 13
53 27
54 1
55 33
56 10
57 5
58 33
59 11
60 23

61 9
62 31
63 29
64 18
65 5
66 11
67 30

Ah Zumma
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 23, 08:50 AM 2016
@NOTTO. ..

I looked for airball on jackpot joy but couldn't find it. Only 2 rng roulette tables. (Normal and high stakes).

Did I miss something?   :embarrassed:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 23, 09:06 AM 2016
Hi Den
Never been on the site i only record the game that gets aired on itv after midnight.
Is this what you got when you went too the site
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 23, 09:26 AM 2016
Uhm than I got the wrong site.
Can you provide a link pls ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 23, 09:47 AM 2016
Den its not Jackpot joy, only made the early topic as it won, joy of winning.
I googled jackpot247.com
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 23, 10:19 AM 2016
Thx  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 24, 07:31 AM 2016
Jackpot247 .com 24.3.16  KTF +47
Nearly 3hrs of recording, enough to start a second game. The second game +42 or if you must go for another spin +55
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 24.3.16
1 26
2 8
3 34
4 36
5 15
6 4
7 34
8 9
9 16
10 25
11 12
12 10
13 28
14 28
15 30
16 15
17 8
18 20
19 15
20 5
21 11
22 8
23 7
24 5
25 18
26 13
27 27
28 33
29 12
30 26
31 32
32 18
33 8
34 21
35 18
36 31
37 3
38 23
39 1
40 30
41 22
42 23
43 31
44 13
45 36
46 3
47 12
48 3
49 23
50 11
51 28
52 3
53 25
54 31
55 26
56 19
57 2
58 20
59 2
60 21

61 20
62 33
63 5
64 30
65 13
66 22
67 18
68 31
69 32
70 14
71 9
72 7
73 36
74 4
75 16
76 34
77 6
78 9
79 19
80 26
81 12
82 14
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 24, 07:36 AM 2016
Awesome notto

For thos playing KTF successfully what is your stop loss and win goal

I will start soon

With

200 stop loss
40 win goal
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 24, 09:18 AM 2016
Heres the sheet RG
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 24, 09:43 AM 2016
Awesome notto

For thos playing KTF successfully what is your stop loss and win goal

I will start soon

With

200 stop loss
40 win goal
My stop loss and win goal are:
150 stop loss
30 win goal (3 wins)
I usually stop when I got 3 repeaters after each other -> around 150. It is easy to recover the next times..

If I win 30 I stop and then I follow the count to start betting repeaters..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 24, 09:54 AM 2016
My stop loss and win goal are:
150 stop loss
30 win goal (3 wins)
I usually stop when I got 3 repeaters after each other -> around 150. It is easy to recover the next times..

If I win 30 I stop and then I follow the count to start betting repeaters..

Sounds good to me. The 150 should recover easy

How many sessions a day of ktf. One? As in you win your 30 and thats it?

Human instinct. U lose 150 stop loss and u want to win it back immediatrly.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: goldrosen on Mar 24, 03:13 PM 2016

Now to the plain old KTF betters, you would be nervous on this game,but we need to have  60 spins, these #'s are -3 at spin 40, we usually see at spin 60, 30 non-hit have come, so in the next 20 spins its a 50/50 trot,just like in reply 311, if we can have the 20 spins it could be bank roll is back to where we started or even plus.
I attach 3/1/16 sheet its not far of the same trot

So this means that even when we are in negative $ at 40 spin but there is still high probability that we can be in profit at spin 60 if we strictly follow KTF rules? Then with 1000 BR is very difficult to lose it all right? Thanks!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 24, 05:32 PM 2016
Hi  goldrosen
Out of 90 games using airball on jackpot247.com its lost one game. I play on RNG in uk and stick to the +1/-1 like sh@t to a blanket and it dont let me down. I was late tonight but had the usual 2 games Ladbrokes and corals just over the hour 28.25 using .25p chips,have to use .25p as max bet is only £100
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 25, 06:45 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 25.03.16 KTF +75 #10
goldrosen from yesterday
So this means that even when we are in negative $ at 40 spin but there is still high probability that we can be in profit at spin 60 if we strictly follow KTF rules? Then with 1000 BR is very difficult to lose it all right? Thanks!

Keep The Faith    minus 2 non-hit at spin 40 Trot/count is average, but look at the 60 spins where again average for 60 spins was  saying get 30.5 non-hit, so like you say above 9 non-hit came in 20 spins.

goldrosen, good luck and KTF.
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 13 36
2 33 35
3 5 34
4 6 33
5 13 r
6 18 32
7 25 31
8 17 30
9 11 29 stake
10 22 28 non-hit return
11 7 27 1 28 36 8
12 5 r 1 27 0 -19
13 0 26 2 54 72 -1
14 30 25 1 26 36 9
15 14 24 1 25 36 20
16 0 r 1 24 0 -4
17 34 23 2 48 72 20
18 6 r 1 23 0 -3
19 7 r 2 46 0 -49
20 33 r 3 69 0 -118
21 32 22 4 92 144 -66
22 35 21 3 66 108 -24
23 2 20 2 42 72 6
24 16 19 1 20 36 22
25 22 r 1 19 0 3
26 22 r 2 38 0 -35
27 6 r 3 57 0 -92
28 5 r 4 76 0 -168
29 36 18 5 95 180 -83
30 6 r 4 72 0 -155
31 8 17 5 90 180 -65
32 33 r 4 68 0 -133
33 31 16 5 85 180 -38
34 30 r 4 64 0 -102
35 25 r 5 80 0 -182
36 14 r 6 96 0 -278
37 18 r 7 112 0 -390
38 6 r 8 128 0 -518
39 1 15 9 144 324 -338
40 35 r 8 120 0 -458
41 6 r 9 135 0 -593
42 9 14 10 150 360 -383
43 30 r 9 126 0 -509
44 22 r 10 140 0 -649
45 29 13 11 154 369 -434
46 12 12 10 130 360 -204
47 21 11 9 108 324 12
48 22 r 8 88 0 -76
49 14 r 9 99 0 -175
50 10 10 10 110 360 75
51 7 r
52 31 r
53 10 r
54 31 r
55 31 r
56 26 9
57 24 8
58 28 7
59 19 6
60 5 r
Those who have watched the KTF topic have worked out their own personal stop loss/win points, so in this game there is plenty of exit points with a win or personal stop loss.
Nottophammer plays this with real money and on RNG so if i can handle RNG whats your problem.
Those who have not read GUT should because KTF was refined with Winkels info.
Theres another member who keeps telling you read GUT, practice, practice.
From KTF, some have found how to catch repeats, who knows a new member might refine the methods and win even more easily.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 25, 06:46 AM 2016
todays #'s
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 25.3.16
1 13
2 33
3 5
4 6
5 13
6 18
7 25
8 17
9 11
10 22
11 7
12 5
13 0
14 30
15 14
16 0
17 34
18 6
19 7
20 33
21 32
22 35
23 2
24 16
25 22
26 22
27 6
28 5
29 36
30 6
31 8
32 33
33 31
34 30
35 25
36 14
37 18
38 6
39 1
40 35
41 6
42 9
43 30
44 22
45 29
46 12
47 21
48 22
49 14
50 10
51 7
52 31
53 10
54 31
55 31
56 26
57 24
58 28
59 19
60 5

61 25
62 7
63 20
64 11
65 35
66 27
67 25
68 1
69 28
70 26
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: goldrosen on Mar 25, 01:30 PM 2016
Thanks Nottophammer!

Based on ur avg record, do u know what was the max consecutive unhit hit? It can be frm 1 to 10, 11 to 60 or the whole session..thanks!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Mar 25, 11:40 PM 2016
I finally got this bot to work.  I have a bankroll of 1k going to 10k. Its a 15 minute video sessions over the last 10 days. which means 240 hours of playing non stop  broken into 15 minutes session to keep capture file down.

Anyone want to sit down and prove me that, this is a losing system, even with 30 number bets?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: sniper on Mar 25, 11:55 PM 2016
Hello Azim

Congratulation on your winning.

Thanks for further proving that KTF is a winning system.

If you don't mind, could you please post the video sessions.

Regards and best wishes.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 26, 12:03 AM 2016
I finally got this bot to work.  I have a bankroll of 1k going to 10k. Its a 15 minute video sessions over the last 10 days. which means 240 hours of playing non stop  broken into 15 minutes session to keep capture file down.

Anyone want to sit down and prove me that, this is a losing system, even with 30 number bets?

Good job azim

Great profits

Even with great profits, winnings, and proof. Moderators will still come and say it fails.

A point when that is a joke

Good on you man

The problem with current management is they come and say it fails without even reading.  Admit they do not read it.

They come and assume it fails. But they believe theres is good

They arent gods. Dont listen to them

They assume it fails. Do YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN ONE ASSUMES. ?? They make an ass out of you and me

KTF wins.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Mar 26, 12:15 AM 2016
Hello Azim

Congratulation on your winning.

Thanks for further proving that KTF is a winning system.

If you don't mind, could you please post the video sessions.

Regards and best wishes.

Can't post 960 files. do the math 24 hours for 15 minute of play is 96 files per day. Which totals to 960 files for 10 days.

On top of it all I will wait till I get my withdrawal through before I post it.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Mar 26, 12:52 AM 2016
Ok, just created this on a play money account... 

I hope it works.

link:s://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=DB42187C82F8D954!346&authkey=!ABu9i8LxLYWy1nM&ithint=video%2cavi

You will have to download the file to your harddrive.  The starting balance was 1K and at the start of this file balance was 700
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: sniper on Mar 26, 01:01 AM 2016
Hello Azim

Thank you very much for your video and prompt reply.

Regards and best wishes.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ayamasnugget on Mar 26, 02:25 AM 2016
Ok, just created this on a play money account... 

I hope it works.

link:s://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=DB42187C82F8D954!346&authkey=!ABu9i8LxLYWy1nM&ithint=video%2cavi

You will have to download the file to your harddrive.  The starting balance was 1K and at the start of this file balance was 700

hi Azim,

care to re-upload this video  to your filehoster again? The link seems to be broken at my end.



Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Mar 26, 02:54 AM 2016
There really wasn't much to the bot. The file I posted had 700 as a starting balance, the balance went to about 1200 i think, and it dropped down again to 800 or so.

The point being made was I have been able turn 1K to 10K. Looking for people who claim that Notto is looking for attention.

Who in real world would make 500 units and give it back.  Oh  wait I know, people who don't read and understand the full thread, and claim to know it all.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 26, 06:36 AM 2016
jackpot247.com 26.03.16 KTF +50 #31, 13 didnt come next.
Short recording only 49 spins.
20 spins KTF users are gone with +50, sheet tells us those waiting to complete a street still waiting,
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 27, 12:23 AM 2016
...............20 spins KTF users are gone with +50, sheet tells us those waiting to complete a street still waiting,

And the repeaters left at spin 30 with $123 and wished the bettors STILL waiting to complete a street the best of luck :wink:

Thanks for the numbers.
I use em all.
Still believe in Practice, Practice Practice to hone count strategies.

I keep meaning to ask --- How often do you post the Average sheet?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 27, 03:12 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 27.3.16  KTF +43 #35
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 27.3.16
1 7
2 21
3 13
4 22
5 8
6 17
7 24
8 30
9 26
10 4
11 20
12 1
13 3
14 17
15 15
16 35
17 5
18 9
19 5
20 15
21 10
22 11
23 12
24 12
25 3
26 34
27 15
28 26
29 1
30 7
31 32
32 24
33 9
34 28
35 10
36 2
37 10
38 25
39 35
40 32
41 21
42 13
43 22
44 35
45 13
46 6
47 19
48 14
49 27
50 14
51 6
52 2
53 1
54 17
55 21
56 32
57 29
58 0
59 35
60 14

61 26
62 5
63 31
64 14
65 13
66 0
67 32
68 27
69 9
70 0
71 35
72 18
73 0
74 22
75 19
76 26
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 27, 09:42 AM 2016
KTF always wins.

Celtic whats you airball stoploss
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 27, 09:59 AM 2016
KTF always wins.

Celtic whats you airball stoploss

-RG

On KTF my stoploss is $400 and my stopwin is $30-$40 on the American 00 wheel.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 27, 10:00 AM 2016
-RG

On KTF my stoploss is $400 and my stopwin is $30-$40 on the American 00 wheel.

-Celtic

Thanks. $1 chips i assume
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 27, 10:22 AM 2016
Thanks. $1 chips i assume

Yes.
That's the minimum on my airball table.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 27, 10:31 AM 2016
.....................
The point being made was I have been able turn 1K to 10K. Looking for people who claim that Notto is looking for attention.

Who in real world would make 500 units and give it back.  Oh  wait I know, people who don't read and understand the full thread, and claim to know it all.

-Azim

What are you talking about here???

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 27, 10:59 AM 2016
-Azim

What are you talking about here???

-Celtic

he is referring in general to anyone that has something to say about KTF in a negative manner. because it hasnt lost. he coded it and went from 1k to 10k
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: goldrosen on Mar 27, 02:11 PM 2016

I am also interested whether there is a difference for 7/10, 8/10, 9/10 and 10/10. Furthermore I am interested how the winnings are distributed over box 1 (11-20), 2(21-30), 3(31-40). Would you be capable of looking into that? I think that would provide us with some sort of proof right, and moreover first step towards creating some rules. I think for example if we could say that when 9/10 and you have 2/3 hits on 11-15 you should continue betting because the odds are in your favor by x%. What do you think? In the end we cannot predict something that is randomized, however you can try to benefit from certain trends and progression of numbers. Atleast that is what I think

Hi guys, any thoughts or test on this please? Thanks!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 29, 07:28 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 28.3.16  KTF +47 #36
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 28.3.16
1 31
2 24
3 19
4 15
5 35
6 30
7 35
8 30
9 28
10 34
11 25
12 31
13 1
14 32
15 29
16 15
17 21
18 23
19 29
20 18
21 30
22 11
23 36
24 4
25 19
26 30
27 22
28 0
29 20
30 14
31 10
32 32
33 2
34 36
35 29
36 25
37 36
38 15
39 6
40 8
41 19
42 18
43 19
44 12
45 32
46 29
47 17
48 20
49 35
50 36
51 16
52 36
53 20
54 4
55 5
56 26
57 6
58 0
59 3
60 27

61 29
62 29
63 5
64 14
65 31
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 29, 07:36 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  29.3.16  KTF +48 #20
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 29.3.16
1 17
2 29
3 4
4 4
5 28
6 33
7 19
8 11
9 17
10 10
11 11
12 31
13 1
14 35
15 32
16 15
17 24
18 20
19 17
20 35
21 36
22 9
23 6
24 8
25 26
26 11
27 16
28 2
29 31
30 6
31 33
32 23
33 19
34 24
35 8
36 25
37 30
38 1
39 27
40 22
41 16
42 8
43 28
44 19
45 20
46 36
47 9
48 26
49 6
50 28
51 22
52 15
53 10
54 17
55 16
56 16
57 17
58 31
59 3
60 15

61 28
62 16
63 29
64 10
65 35
66 33
67 20
68 32
69 6
70 30
71 16
72 34
73 5
74 3
75 6
76 3
77 21
78 14
79 3
80 15
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: sniper on Mar 29, 09:02 AM 2016
Hello Nottophammer

Thanks for your system.

 I started playing KTF yesterday and won 166 units in 4 sessions lasted less than 2 hours.

Target for each session was 40 units. I use +1/-1 progression and maximum bet so far was 3 units.

During my testing, I had one bust above 600 units after winning more than 60 sessions of 40 units each.

From your record, what was the average number of spin to get the 4th win?

Regards and best wishes.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 29, 06:00 PM 2016
in the back of my mind i think: wait for 12 uniques, then bet the 24 non hits. on a loss use 1 3 9 progression

but I KNOW 3 repeaters will happen and it will fail

but the question is: how often do we see 12 uniques then some of those 12 repeat 3 times immediately? are we in profit on the loss?

win on 1 3 or 9 - 12 units
loss - big

but will the wins overcome?

a repeat number in 12 spins is taken out, we wait X number of spins for 12 unique of no repeat
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 29, 06:04 PM 2016
Hello Nottophammer

Thanks for your system.

 I started playing KTF yesterday and won 166 units in 4 sessions lasted less than 2 hours.

Target for each session was 40 units. I use +1/-1 progression and maximum bet so far was 3 units.

During my testing, I had one bust above 600 units after winning more than 60 sessions of 40 units each.

From your record, what was the average number of spin to get the 4th win?

Regards and best wishes.

awesome results

good work

what is you stoploss in your tests? seems to work

i have not played real money yet but 200 to 400 stop loss with 40 win goal seems right

since your stoploss failed only once im curious to hear it
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ignatus on Mar 29, 07:18 PM 2016
Betting 27 numbers with progression is a way to disaster, sooner or later you're going to realize that.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Mar 29, 07:22 PM 2016
Quote
i have not played real money yet but 200 to 400 stop loss with 40 win goal seems right

Sorry to cut in, but a quick FYI...

Even when the player has a high edge he should expect variance to be in the neighborhood of 450 units or more.  Testing by hand, for only a few hundred or thousands spins isn't telling you much.
When the payer has a low edge, the variance can exceed 1k units. 

(I suppose I shouldn't ask the following question...but... ) If the method works, why wouldn't you want to play as long as possible to make as much as possible?
Now there actually is a correct answer to this question.  I'm not bashing your system, but I'm trying to teach you something that you guys are missing.  And in the future, if someone poses this question to you, then you will be able to answer it effectively.

-The General

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 29, 07:27 PM 2016
Good idea. Play as much as possible to win as much as possible

Notto and celtic and denzie are 3 that i know of playing ktf everyday....

Sniper im really curious as to what your personal stoploss is since you only had one bust
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Mar 29, 07:28 PM 2016
The question:  What is the purpose of a stoploss?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 29, 07:29 PM 2016
in the back of my mind i think: wait for 12 uniques, then bet the 24 non hits. on a loss use 1 3 9 progression

but I KNOW 3 repeaters will happen and it will fail

but the question is: how often do we see 12 uniques then some of those 12 repeat 3 times immediately? are we in profit on the loss?

win on 1 3 or 9 - 12 units
loss - big

but will the wins overcome?

a repeat number in 12 spins is taken out, we wait X number of spins for 12 unique of no repeat
RG go to the 12 unique in x spins that will get you the answer
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 29, 07:30 PM 2016
RG go to the 12 unique in x spins that will get you the answer

Yes notto

Simple. Wait 12 unique numbers then bet the 24 remaining for a 40 win goal
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Mar 29, 07:32 PM 2016
Question:  Why do you have a win goal?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: sniper on Mar 29, 07:33 PM 2016
awesome results

good work

what is you stoploss in your tests? seems to work

i have not played real money yet but 200 to 400 stop loss with 40 win goal seems right

since your stoploss failed only once im curious to hear it

Hello RouletteGhost,

For my testing, I did not use any stop loss.

I stopped when target 40 achieved, else played till spin 37.

I was lucky during testing. I strongly believe a stop loss of 400 unit should be practical.

I am now testing with various progression and entry/exit point.

Regard and best wishes.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 29, 07:34 PM 2016
Hello RouletteGhost,

For my testing, I did not use any stop loss.

I stopped when target 40 achieved, else played till spin 37.

I was lucky during testing. I strongly believe a stop loss of 400 unit should be practical.

I am now testing with various progression and entry/exit point.

Regard and best wishes.

400 sounds good. Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ignatus on Mar 29, 08:34 PM 2016
Question:  Why do you have a win goal?

Ken has explain his betting method pretty well, go for one hit, with big chips then quit.

KTF is played the in a similar way? Quit after a small wingoal, difference is this progression thing with 27 numbers, that is a way to disaster....as i said
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tomla021 on Mar 29, 08:56 PM 2016
ignatus you should test it 10 times?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 29, 09:10 PM 2016
Good idea. Play as much as possible to win as much as possible

Notto and celtic and denzie are 3 that i know of playing ktf everyday....

Sniper im really curious as to what your personal stoploss is since you only had one bust

-RG

If you read the thread you will see that I switched to betting repeats exclusively some time ago.
KTF worked for me but was too slow in making profit.

-Celtic

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 29, 10:59 PM 2016
ignatus you should test it 10 times?

Ah good old jealousy  :xd:
Over 500 sessions and the profits growing daily. Winning minimum 1 br a day.
Btw I'm playing repeaters too.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 30, 03:02 AM 2016
Den, are you playing Celtic's way?

Or you have Denzie's way?
Is it playing till first hit?

Could you update us on your bet selection, when you find time?

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 30, 08:00 AM 2016
Den, are you playing Celtic's way?

Or you have Denzie's way?
Is it playing till first hit?

Could you update us on your bet selection, when you find time?

Thanks

If I play live dealer or airball then I play as Celticknits does.

If I play rng then I go for 1 hit. Track bit further and if no virtual hit in 2-3 spins I go for one more. 1 hit is enough though as rng is really fast.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 30, 08:07 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 30.3.16  KTF +79  #23
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 11 36
2 16 35
3 0 34
4 15 33
5 2 32
6 33 31
7 0 r
8 20 30
9 2 r stake
10 19 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 15 r 1 29 0 -29
12 12 28 2 58 72 -15
13 21 27 1 28 36 -7
14 31 26 1 27 36 2
15 32 25 1 26 36 12
16 14 24 1 25 36 23
17 0 r 1 24 0 -1
18 12 r 2 48 0 -49
19 18 23 3 72 108 -13
20 19 r 2 46 0 -59
21 30 22 3 69 108 -20
22 10 21 2 44 72 8
23 31 r 1 21 0 -13
24 33 r 2 42 0 -55
25 3 20 3 63 108 -10
26 13 19 2 40 72 22
27 14 r 1 19 0 3
28 14 r 2 38 0 -35
29 19 r 3 57 0 -92
30 24 18 4 76 144 -24
31 15 r 3 54 0 -78
32 6 17 4 72 144 -6
33 20 r 3 51 0 -57
34 27 16 4 68 144 19
35 23 15 3 48 108 79
36 23 r
37 13 r
38 21 r
39 8 14
40 23 r
41 8
42 27
43 16
44 12
45 35
46 29
47 19
48 7
49 19
50 11
51 4
52 7
53 1
54 29
55 1
56 28
57 26
58 29
59 32
60 21

61 31
62 27
63 6
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 08:11 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 30.3.16  KTF +79  #23
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 11 36
2 16 35
3 0 34
4 15 33
5 2 32
6 33 31
7 0 r
8 20 30
9 2 r stake
10 19 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 15 r 1 29 0 -29
12 12 28 2 58 72 -15
13 21 27 1 28 36 -7
14 31 26 1 27 36 2
15 32 25 1 26 36 12
16 14 24 1 25 36 23
17 0 r 1 24 0 -1
18 12 r 2 48 0 -49
19 18 23 3 72 108 -13
20 19 r 2 46 0 -59
21 30 22 3 69 108 -20
22 10 21 2 44 72 8
23 31 r 1 21 0 -13
24 33 r 2 42 0 -55
25 3 20 3 63 108 -10
26 13 19 2 40 72 22
27 14 r 1 19 0 3
28 14 r 2 38 0 -35
29 19 r 3 57 0 -92
30 24 18 4 76 144 -24
31 15 r 3 54 0 -78
32 6 17 4 72 144 -6
33 20 r 3 51 0 -57
34 27 16 4 68 144 19
35 23 15 3 48 108 79
36 23 r
37 13 r
38 21 r
39 8 14
40 23 r
41 8
42 27
43 16
44 12
45 35
46 29
47 19
48 7
49 19
50 11
51 4
52 7
53 1
54 29
55 1
56 28
57 26
58 29
59 32
60 21

61 31
62 27
63 6

Nice. Highest bet being 4 units

Did you see sniper reults. 60 sessions. 1 bust.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 30, 08:18 AM 2016
No no no , we all just lucky at the same time. The system not work   :wink:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 30, 08:39 AM 2016
General or is it herb or caleb, well who ever you are, perhaps Turner knows.

So what can the general learn from simple average.
Some who read agree its fair to say we get on average in spins11-40, 15 non-hit. If we divide the 15 by 3 its 5, so 5 non-hit on average appear in spins 11-20, same in 21-30 and 31-40.
But we know from keeping records 11-20 averages 7 non-hit, thus +2 on the 5 allocated.

Now from GUT we need to understand the trot. What is the trot? its how 0x's and 1x's then the >1x's reveal themselves.

Its not written in stone, so you have to study/practice.

From your record keeping you can see upto the 19th non-hit, there avg to come in is 2 spins, remember maths does not lie.

Now general if you look at todays sheet which is supplied you will see from spin 11 to spin 40 we get the BORING 15 in 30 spins. This was a 50/50 trot,yesterday 11-30 was fast so 31-40 it started to slow,as you can see it had to balance out thus repeats.

Signing off
Nottophammer
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 08:42 AM 2016
General or is it herb or caleb, well who ever you are, perhaps Turner knows.

I think we can turn over a new leaf if we ignore what we wish to ignore and just continue on

No point talking to him about roulette unless it has to do with VB

This is a good thread lets not drag him into it
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Foolwise on Mar 30, 09:32 AM 2016
The question:  What is the purpose of a stoploss?
Salute The General. Its funny why one would confuse you and me. The stoploss is to reset the progression. The wingoal is to limit the number of times non-hits hit as if I go beyond that I might loose the count and get into the average zone which will find more repeats and make you loose.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: blueman on Mar 30, 11:11 AM 2016
No no no , we all just lucky at the same time. The system not work   :wink:
I do not care what general and others think. KTF is a good system. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 11:14 AM 2016
I do not care what general and others think. KTF is a good system. :thumbsup:

How can anyone refute it isnt a good system. That i do not know

+1
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 30, 11:33 AM 2016
Nice. Highest bet being 4 units

Did you see sniper reults. 60 sessions. 1 bust.


-RG

That 4 is the progression level not the stake.
At spin #30 the stake is $72.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 11:42 AM 2016

-RG

That 4 is the progression level not the stake.
At spin #30 the stake is $72.

-Celtic

I know that

With +1 -1 the highest chip level was 4

Not too shabby
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 31, 05:09 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 31.3.16 KTF +59 #1
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 31.3.16
1 16
2 27
3 10
4 2
5 9
6 14
7 17
8 29
9 8
10 36
11 11
12 2
13 3
14 24
15 35
16 16
17 24
18 17
19 35
20 35
21 0
22 6
23 3
24 12
25 4
26 16
27 32
28 31
29 30
30 18
31 31
32 0
33 2
34 7
35 1
36 26
37 25
38 1
39 14
40 16
41 24
42 26
43 7
44 17
45 27
46 19
47 8
48 33
49 16
50 7
51 8
52 36
53 6
54 25
55 10
56 9
57 10
58 16
59 27
60 2

61 3
62 21
63 35
64 20
65 12
66 30
67 35
68 13
69 32
70 23
71 34
72 29
73 5
74 26
75 7
76 16
77 4
78 17
79 33
80 24
81 12
82 5
83 24
84 6
85 0

spins 1-10  10/10
       11-20        4-1
       21-30     12+2
       31-40     16+1
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: 3Nine on Mar 31, 07:51 AM 2016
Does anyone have significant profit/loss tracking for this that would show the average win/loss per session and/or per spin?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Kattila on Mar 31, 06:34 PM 2016
An old brother of the KTF 

link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=787.msg7238#msg7238
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 31, 06:55 PM 2016
AWESOME KATTILA

great minds think alike

Kudos to you and nottophammer
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: goldrosen on Mar 31, 09:54 PM 2016
An old brother of the KTF 

link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=787.msg7238#msg7238

What about flatbet for KTF, will it work? =)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Mar 31, 09:56 PM 2016
If a method won't work when flat betting then it will fail over time with a progression as well.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Apr 01, 02:40 AM 2016
An old brother of the KTF 

Thanks Kattila, hopefully it won't disappear as happened to some other threads...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 01, 06:21 AM 2016
Did anybody tape todays #'s, my sky box is playing up, have to do a rebuild
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 01, 06:24 AM 2016
What about flatbet for KTF, will it work? =)

I kept a sheet on flat bets, it does manage to stay infront but by only a small profit. Not enough to give up he day job.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 01, 06:48 AM 2016
18 is how many non-hit in 30 spins, 3.40 is it made a minus, below 19 non-hit 12.4 made plus
Code: [Select]
			

18 3.4
19 12.4

16 16.4
14 42.6
18 4.8


15 16.4
15 25.8
16 3.4
17 2.6
16 13.4
18 27.8
18 1.6
14 31.4
16 4.2
15 18.4
23 56.6
13 35.2
14 26.2
21 54.6
16 12
19 21
16 2.6
17 9.2
17 10
19 19.6
17 1.6
18 11.6
18 8.6
19 16.4
16 3.6
19 25.8
17 2.8
16 8.8
20 29.6
18 14.2
16 3.2
15 19.4
17 2.8
18 12.8
16 3.8
18 19.2
16 9
17 9.8
16 20.6
16 20.4
19 21
14 28
17 5.8
18 7.2
19 22
15 12
16 12.6
17 1.4
13 41.4
16 6.6
16 1.8
18 11.6
18 7.2
12 7
18 27
18 8.2
18 8.4
16 13.2
18 9.8

16 3.6
14 39.2
17 0.2
16 0.8
13 11.4
15 6.8
16 11.2
21 50
19 22
18 29.2
18 11
19 25.4
17 7.2
19 21.4
15 7.8
16 8.8
14 25
15 22
17 2.8
17 1.6
15 10.6
15 11
17 0.8
13 44.4
19 18.8
19 27
17 8.2
14 22.6
15 6
16 4
17 16.6
18 17.8
17 1
14 20
19 2.6
18 15
18 6.6
14 0.6
17 18.4
16 5
16 7.6
20 42.8
19 20.6
15 3.2
20 13.4
17 10.8
12 44.6
15 17
17 8.6
17 12.6
14 6
14 31.6
15 7.4
15 10.2
18 6.8
19 31.2
15 7.6
16 11
12 24
16 1.2
17 5.8
18 24.2
17 12.4
14 27.4
17 17
15 3.4
15 21.2
18 15
15 4.6
19 41.8
15 7.4
20 38.4
18 16.8
15 4.2
17 8.4
17 0.2
16 10.4
15 19
18 20.8
22 48
16 5
22 64.6
18 9.2
15 11.4
17 15
15 8.4
13 36.2
15 12.8
12 8.4
18 22.2
16 3.2
15 14
16 5.2
16 12.6
17 20
17 10.2
19 45.6
17 28.4
15 6
17 16.2
13 15.8
16 7
18 8.2
15 18.4
15 12.6
16 8.2
15 6
14 2.2
19 36.4
20 37.4
17 7.8
18 19.2
14 20.8
17 1.6
15 10.6
18 32.8
14 15.4
18 12.8
15 24.2
18 12.4
17 7.8
15 16
15 12.6
18 13.8
12 52.2
16 8
17 6.2
11 56.6
18 15.8
15 1.4
18 23.6
18 20.2
15 19
17 15.2
18 2.2
16 14.2
15 1.2
18 16.8
16 1
19 24.2
17 6.6
17 5.4
17 5.8
14 26
18 1.2
18 20.6
16 8.8
18 36
12 24.2
13 34.4
12 20
16 2.6
19 23.6
15 14.4
16 3
17 4.4
15 11.6
18 22.2
17 4.6
16 12.2
17 11.6
16 12.6
13 38.2
15 23.2
14 22.4
17 10
16 0.4
15 7.6
18 24.4
13 35.2
15 13
17 5
17 9.4
15 24.4
16 2.6
15 11
10 7.6
11 0.8
20 24.4
16 12
17 2.8
19 24.8
11 54.4
16 0.4
15 14.6
18 26.4
17 10.6
16 13.2
16 2.2
12 0 0
16 3.8
8 1.8
14 2.6
16 9.6
13 42
16 8
15 16.2
15 5.4
17 3.6

12 53
13 28
17 13.4
16 0.6
15 6.8
18 21.6
16 7.2
16 1.2
16 8
17 8
14 18.4
20 36.4
20 34.6
17 18.2
14 36.4
15 14.6
18 16.8
17 13.2
16 2
14 24
14 27.6
15 13.4
19 32.4
15 10.4
16 4.6
14 20.4
17 33
15 4.8
18 15.4
16 3.2
14 20.8
20 38.2
18 27.6
15 7.8
15 3
15 14.2
15 4.8
13 33.8
15 7.2
17 18.2
18 24.8
16 4.4
16 4.6
16 16.6
11 51.6
16 6.6
18 21.2
15 10.4
15 11.4
14 24
17 18.8
15 23
13 12.8
16 2.6
15 6
15 8.4
14 16
18 13.2
14 7.2
14 23.8
14 8.4
18 30
15 15.8
17 10.6
16 3.2
16 19
17 11
15 9.6
15 5.6
15 5.6
17 1.6
16 5.8
16 9.2
13 24.6
17 11.4
15 12.8
16 3
15 16.8
12 38.8
16 1.2
17 12.8
15 10.6
14 17.2
14 14.2
13 19.2
16 15
14 17.6
16 15.6
15 0.8
18 21.4
11 48.2
17 14.2
14 26.4
18 24
14 20.8
13 30.4
16 6.2
13 20
18 31.4
15 10.4
18 17.6
17 13.6
17 5
14 19.8
15 11
17 11.4
16 11.4
18 18.2
16 8
17 13.6
17 23.6
15 2.6
16 1.6
12 40.6
14 27
13 19.2
13 28.8
13 30.8
16 4.2
14 3.4
16 2.6
18 30.4
18 27
17 7.6
17 20.2
17 27.4
17 31.8
14 27.4
12 25.2
16 6.6
16 11.2
20 35.2
17 13.8
15 9.2
18 24.8
16 4.4
18 27.4
16 7.2
16 2.2
13 20.6
17 18.6
17 1.6
15 11
19 28
17 5.6
18 28.4
17 18.8
16 2.4
15 12.2
16 2.6
18 19.8
15 13
18 25.8
15 0.2
17 19
19 43.6
16 16.8
16 7
11 36
13 29.6
17 14.4
18 16.8
15 9
18 27.4
14 20.8
17 20.8
15 19.6
15 9.4
13 21
15 8.4
13 13
18 22.8
16 1.2
14 23.6
15 8.4
14 14.4
16 8.6
15 11
14 24.6
14 6.4
13 17.4
15 6
17 16.4
17 18
16 0.6
16 5.8
14 13.4
17 15.8
17 15.8
15 3.6
15 9.4
16 11.4
15 7.2
15 4.8
15 9.4
14 11.6
17 21.2
17 4
15 5.2
12 35.6
12 18.4
16 6
12 26
22 57.8
22 69
15 5
15 3.2
14 14.8
13 26.4
19 33.2
14 9.4
16 11.6
21 42.6
20 43.6
15 5
18 33.4
13 27.6
15 15
13 21.2
18 21.8
16 6.6
20 35.2
16 0.8
15 11
13 27.6
16 3.2
15 5.8
17 18.8
15 3.6
15 4.8
14 18.6
19 13.2
18 21.6
16 0.2
18 25.6
16 2
18 21.6
16 8.4
12 46.6
16 5.4
16 9.2
15 14.8
17 15.2
15 7
16 22.2
18 32
16 8.8
19 37.2
16 4.8
16 4.8
17 8
15 18.6
15 19
16 2.6
15 12
13 9
12 22.6
17 0.8
16 16.6
15 11.8
16 30.2
15 0.4
17 10.8
18 25.8
14 5.8
12 41.2
16 5
16 0.6
17 22
17 25.8
15 10
15 13.6
15 7.6
21 42
14 21
13 29.2
18 24
16 5.2
18 14.8
17 5
14 20.8
20 41
17 6.8
20 44
17 9.6
18 22.2
15 4.4
15 9
15 3.2
15 15
15 2.6
16 10.6
14 18.6
18 17.8
14 22.8
16 0.6
17 7.8
17 7.6
17 18.2
16 0.6
17 11.6
13 2.8
16 4.2
16 2.8
18 19.8
17 9.6
13 23.2
18 23.6
14 5.4
12 28.4
15 5.6
13 21
17 8.2
17 4.4
17 3.6
17 8
15 1.2
17 8.8
17 16.4
15 10.4
19 46
17 13.4
18 29.8
17 15
16 8.6
14 18.4
14 1.6
16 2
13 18.6
17 10.2
17 25.4
16 1
17 8.6
13 0.6
13 29
14 19
14 16
18 23
16 15.2
15 6.2
14 13.6
15 1.4
15 7.6
15 12.4
18 17.8
13 22
16 6.4
14 10.8
14 15.2
16 5.8
14 25.2
16 1.8
16 0 0
17 16
15 11.6
16 3.6
17 14.8
15 10.6
15 6.4
15 5.6
18 29.2
13 6
13 20
14 12
15 0.8
16 5.4
13 9.8


13
15 20.8
14 4.4
16 13.4
13 6.8
16 16.4
17 19.8
13 12.2
16 36.8
12 32.4
18 11.4
14 18.6
17 42.4
14 12
17 42
11 20
13 34.2
18 13.2
16 10
13 1.4
16 27.8
17 8.8
16 43
19 6
16 16.8
17 23
16 6.2
15 11.8
17 62.4
9 6.2
15 9.8
14 14
17 16.8
12 3.8
15 8.2
15 8
14 23.8
17 18.2
14 25
13 35.8
18 25
17 0.4
14 0
16 31
13 25.4
17 15.8
14 1
16 12.6
14 4.8
15 23.4
13 0.6
15 1.4
15 10.8
16 12.8
14 8
14 3.6
17 17.4
13 3.8
14 32
12 0.2
15 0.4
15 8.2
17 7.4
13 16.6
14 11.8
17 14.2
16 4
15 12.4
14 24.2
13 19.2
17 3.6
16 2
15 11.6
17 2
16 15.4
15 13.4
15 35.4
18 13.4
16 2.2
15 4
14 20
12 25.2
13 29.2
12 3
16 23
17 16.4
16 16.6
14 4.6
14 8.6
16 31
13 14.4
17 7.6
15 12
12 6
17 15.6
16 9.6
16 27.2
18 13.2
16 11.2
17 4.8
16 40
19 7.6
16 7.2
14 6.6
16 25.6
17 20.8
18 5.8
14 7.4
14 9.2
16 11.2
14 5.2
14 5.6
16 36.6
19 12.6
16 19.6
16 18.2
12 7.8
15 28.8
13 7.4
16 26
13 28.8
18 21
13 12.8
17 1.4
16 34.6
12 2.8
16 52
21 14.4
13 14.4
17 3.6
14 51
19 32.8
18 7.6
15 1.4
16 45.8
20 27.8
18 42.4
19 22.6
18 27.6
19 22.6
13 25.2
17 1.6
15 9.6
17 31.8
17 24.4
19 4.4
13 13.2
17 23.6
12 16.6
17 3.4
14 10.8
15 7.8
14 9.2
16 10.8
16 33.2
17 22.6
13 12.4
14 4
15 37.4
12 4
13 14.2
16 24.8
17 13.6
16 26.4
17 37.2
19 23.2
14 11.6
14 22.6
17 3.2
15 15.8
13 28.6
18 5.2
14 1.8
14 10.4
14 26
17 4.2
15 1
15 27.6
18 15.8
16 33.6
19 15.2
16 9
16 5
15 5.6
15 3.8
14 9.2
15 2.4
16 10.6
15 48
20 0 0
16 27.4
18 9.2
13 21.6
13 4.2
14 19
13 0.2
15 15.4
14 37
18 5.4
15 1.2
16 3.8
15 8.8
14 6.8
15 9.4
17 34.8
17 18.2
17 10.6
15 8.4
17 5.8
15 12.8
18 11.6
14 17
17 13
16 8.4
16 20.6
13 0.2
15 10.6
15 3.6
15 22
13 6.8
16 31.8
18 39.2
12 15.2
13 3.6
15 39.2
18 39.8
10 28.8
18 15.8
14 45.2
11 9
16 16.2
16 49.4
11 7
18 11.8
17 36.6
19 2.8
16 11
14 9.2
16 17
10 28.2 0
13 4.4
14 28.4
16 20.2
13 11.8
12 7.8
15 28.2
13 25.8
17 18
17
  6078.2 7613.4

minus 6078.2    plus 7613.4
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: praline on Apr 01, 06:55 AM 2016
it`s much more easier to place bets with norcosoft`s tracker and clicker

link:://betselection.cc/norcosoft/gut-tracker-ew-clicker-for-european-wheel/


i use it for both KTF and WTF,  alsoo there is a retract 20 option which is very usefull  for wtf
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Apr 01, 07:00 AM 2016
Did anybody tape todays #'s, my sky box is playing up, have to do a rebuild

Maybe you can find numbers on their web site?
Then you wouldn't have to tape it...

Just suggestion.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 01, 07:12 AM 2016
Thanks for suggestion NY
I've rebuilt the box so hope will tape #'s for 2.4.16
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 01, 07:38 AM 2016
Yesterdays #'s flat bet over the spins 11-40. stop at 26th non-hit. so shows +7.6, but there is still 3 spins*2.2 which would mean a £1 profit
Code: [Select]
11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22	23	24	25	26	27
27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11
5.4 5.2 5 4.8 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 3.4 3.2 3 2.8 2.6 2.4 2.2
1 2 1 1 6 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 4 1 1 1 3
5.4 10.4 5 4.8 27.6 4.4 8.4 4 7.6 3.6 3.4 3.2 12 2.8 2.6 2.4 107.6

115.2 7.6
If we stop as soon as 15 non-hit have hit,which would be spin36 you can see 15*7.2=108 less the 105.2 stakes, so for .20p units plus 2.80 or for £1 units be +£14
Code: [Select]
11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22	23	24	25	26
27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12
5.4 5.2 5 4.8 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 3.4 3.2 3 2.8 2.6 2.4
1 2 1 1 6 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 4 1 1 0
5.4 10.4 5 4.8 27.6 4.4 8.4 4 7.6 3.6 3.4 3.2 12 2.8 2.6 105.2

108 2.8

Of the 97 games on jackpot247.com these are the non-hit in 30 spins
Code: [Select]
12	0
13 5
14 13
15 19
16 29
17 18
18 8
19 5
20 0
Of the 97, 18 games did not manage to get 15non-hit, but 79 got 15 non-hit, some before 30 spins would be up.
The earlier the 15 non-hit come would mean more profit ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ati on Apr 01, 05:52 PM 2016
If a method won't work when flat betting then it will fail over time with a progression as well.
I'm not entirely sure about that. Let's say you win every 3rd bet, that would be a constant loser flat bet, and a constant winner with certain progressions. Using a progression isn't necessarily a bad thing if it suits for the bet selection.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 01, 06:08 PM 2016
Ati, while ideally that would work, in the real world there´s no such thing as a constant LLLW because of variance.
Progressions could kill the HE if there were no table limits though.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 01, 06:09 PM 2016
Ati, while ideally that would work, in the real world there´s no such thing as a constant LLLW because of variance.
Progressions could kill the HE if there were no table limits though.

this is why i am a firm believer if we have a progression that stays within the table limits to tackle the variance while at the same time betting against patterns can lead to success

see javinci post in grassroots thread. up 30k doing just that
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 01, 06:17 PM 2016
Guys,

You need to define your rules so that you don't curve fit along the way.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 02, 01:50 AM 2016
Well show taped but only an hour long.  Jackpot247.com 2.4.16  KTF +51 #14
Only 34 spins, but everyone will be happy with their winnings.
Didn't get a 13,31 but we did get a 12,21 does that mean anything?
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 2.4.16
1 10
2 24
3 5
4 28
5 18
6 27
7 22
8 24
9 26
10 23
11 31
12 6
13 20
14 17
15 17
16 15
17 14
18 13
19 32
20 35
21 19
22 3
23 5
24 31
25 0
26 27
27 32
28 18
29 7
30 34
31 30
32 12
33 21
34 23
Oh yeah fast game
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 02, 02:15 AM 2016
For flat bet fans of todays #'s obviously theres 1 spin of 2.2 to deduct  so be +36 for .20p units,if for £1 units + 180
Code: [Select]
10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22	23	24	25	26	27
28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11
5.6 5.4 5.2 5 4.8 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 3.4 3.2 3 2.8 2.6 2.4 2.2
1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 4 1 1 1 1
5.6 5.4 5.2 5 9.6 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 10.2 12.8 3 2.8 2.6 2.4
84.2
122.4 38.2
If we stop at 15th non-hit  +23.8 as above +119
Code: [Select]
10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22	23	24	25	26	27
28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11
5.6 5.4 5.2 5 4.8 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 3.4 3.2 3 2.8 2.6 2.4 2.2
1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 4 1 1
5.6 5.4 5.2 5 9.6 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 10.2 12.8 3 2.8 0 0
84.2
108 23.8

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RayManZ on Apr 02, 02:42 AM 2016
I dont really understand your table, but if you're saying the flat betting KTF would win in the long run. Why not bet KTF with really high stakes? So the table limit max. Online it's 500 units on a single number.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 02, 07:29 AM 2016
Guys,

You need to define your rules so that you don't curve fit along the way.

lol, I had made this same comment (in private). You cant look back at results and then say....I would of bet this here and bet on that number there etc.....and THEN count it as wins.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 02, 07:59 AM 2016
lol, I had made this same comment (in private). You cant look back at results and then say....I would of bet this here and bet on that number there etc.....and THEN count it as wins.

Ken
Yes it was the same for me in the beginning.  But it exist a really good description by Celticknits. Maybe that one can be added first in the thread?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: goldrosen on Apr 02, 08:48 AM 2016
lol, I had made this same comment (in private). You cant look back at results and then say....I would of bet this here and bet on that number there etc.....and THEN count it as wins.

Ken

That is what I see happening in WTF thread a lot, "I would have played like this n that", never had a losing session, so funny lol, if its real play then I think they will say something like "I should have played like this!" after they have busted..but IMP i think KTF is okay..u can just follow the rules as stated n take only the first winning, then the only one lossing session frm Nottophammer is not counted..then its really no lossing so far lol just sayin

Ps: You will never get the count thingy, u will need to practice practice n practice forever because the WTF rules will be changing forever also haha
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 02, 01:23 PM 2016
Guys,

You need to define your rules so that you don't curve fit along the way.

-General

This is becoming annoying.
The rules for KTF have been defined many times in this thread, and have not changed, but I guess people do not want to read all of the pages in this thread.

Here are the rules to play KTF one last time:

1 - Minimum BR $400
2 - Take last 10 numbers, or 10 new numbers if you prefer.
3 - Starting at spin #11 bet All of the unhit numbers
4 - Use a +1/-1 Progression
5 - Win stop is $30-40 on an American wheel and $40-$50 on a Euro wheel.
6 - Play until you win the session winstop or deplete your BR

Notto - Let us know if I missed something here.

Thats all there is to it folks.
Oh, and one last thing, forget about the count, averages or anything like that when playing KTF, you do not need to use them.

So, to summarize, just start betting unhit numbers at spin #11 and win your $30-$50 or ride the wave until you reach your profit, deplete your BR, or decide you have had enough.

I believe In almost 100 games Notto has only lost 1 time.
On a Euro wheel that would be about $4,600.00 profit.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 02, 01:27 PM 2016
These rules (revised?) have started on what date? So if I look at that date on the posts, the net wins should read....$0, correct?

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 02, 01:42 PM 2016
That is what I see happening in WTF thread a lot, "I would have played like this n that", never had a losing session, so funny lol, if its real play then I think they will say something like "I should have played like this!" after they have busted..but IMP i think KTF is okay..u can just follow the rules as stated n take only the first winning, then the only one lossing session frm Nottophammer is not counted..then its really no lossing so far lol just sayin

Ps: You will never get the count thingy, u will need to practice practice n practice forever because the WTF rules will be changing forever also haha

-Goldrosen

First off this is not the WTF thread.
The rules for KTF are fixed and have not changed.

Re.your statement Ps: You will never get the count thingy, u will need to practice practice n practice forever because the WTF rules will be changing forever also haha about the

If you cannot get the count thingy, as you call it, forget about playing WTF.
The rules do not really change in WTF but may appear to if you do not understand how to read the count.
You are 100% correct about practicing practicing  n practicing= in regards to WTF.

A lot of people confuse KTF and WTF but as has been stated many times in this thread they are related but are two completely different animals.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 02, 01:44 PM 2016
I merely suspected that your rules were too lose.



I only made the suggestion because too many people curve fit their testing without even realizing it.  A good example is that fruitcake XXVV that rambles and bloviates... on an on... while curve fitting that absurd WF/ACETF nonsense of his on the other forum.

"If this was, should of, could of"....bad phrases when testing.


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: goldrosen on Apr 02, 02:16 PM 2016

First off this is not the WTF thread.
The rules for KTF are fixed and have not changed.


Of course I know this is not WTF thread, just sayin i see a lot of "this is how I would have played it" in WTF thread, but with all different starting point n WTF can make all losing sessions provided by the others into a winning one..Im not saying it is bad or what thats  just what I observed..
And yea the rules for KTF is fixed, just follow n there is no "hey guys, this is how I would have played it" happen..yes?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 02, 02:21 PM 2016
-General

This is becoming annoying.
The rules for KTF have been defined many times in this thread, and have not changed, but I guess people do not want to read all of the pages in this thread.

Here are the rules to play KTF one last time:

1 - Minimum BR $400
2 - Take last 10 numbers, or 10 new numbers if you prefer.
3 - Starting at spin #11 bet All of the unhit numbers
4 - Use a +1/-1 Progression
5 - Win stop is $30-40 on an American wheel and $40-$50 on a Euro wheel.
6 - Play until you win the session winstop or deplete your BR

Notto - Let us know if I missed something here.

Thats all there is to it folks.
Oh, and one last thing, forget about the count, averages or anything like that when playing KTF, you do not need to use them.

So, to summarize, just start betting unhit numbers at spin #11 and win your $30-$50 or ride the wave until you reach your profit, deplete your BR, or decide you have had enough.

I believe In almost 100 games Notto has only lost 1 time.
On a Euro wheel that would be about $4,600.00 profit.

-Celtic

THIS IS NOT A CHANGE JUST AN OMMISSION FROM MY FIRST POST!!!

I forgot to mention that as numbers hit in KTF they are taken down and thereby reduce the bet amount.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 02, 02:29 PM 2016
-General

This is becoming annoying.
The rules for KTF have been defined many times in this thread, and have not changed, but I guess people do not want to read all of the pages in this thread.

Here are the rules to play KTF one last time:

1 - Minimum BR $400
2 - Take last 10 numbers, or 10 new numbers if you prefer.
3 - Starting at spin #11 bet All of the unhit numbers
4 - Use a +1/-1 Progression
5 - Win stop is $30-40 on an American wheel and $40-$50 on a Euro wheel.
6 - Play until you win the session winstop or deplete your BR

Notto - Let us know if I missed something here.

Thats all there is to it folks.
Oh, and one last thing, forget about the count, averages or anything like that when playing KTF, you do not need to use them.

So, to summarize, just start betting unhit numbers at spin #11 and win your $30-$50 or ride the wave until you reach your profit, deplete your BR, or decide you have had enough.

I believe In almost 100 games Notto has only lost 1 time.
On a Euro wheel that would be about $4,600.00 profit.

-Celtic
Thanks Celticknits for the post and rules. I wonder if this can be added first in the thread, maybe nottophammer can do it?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 02, 02:35 PM 2016
Of course I know this is not WTF thread, just sayin i see a lot of "this is how I would have played it" in WTF thread, but with all different starting point n WTF can make all losing sessions provided by the others into a winning one..Im not saying it is bad or what thats  just what I observed..
And yea the rules for KTF is fixed, just follow n there is no "hey guys, this is how I would have played it" happen..yes?


-Goldrosen

I am glad you found the rules for KTF.
I am surprised someone has not asked me why, if KTF is so good I am not still playing it.
The reason that I do not play KTF and play only the repeats is because I was not happy with some of the drawdowns to get to a $30-$40 profit on the American wheel in my B&M when playing KTF.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 02, 02:39 PM 2016
Thanks Celticknits for the post and rules. I wonder if this can be added first in the thread, maybe nottophammer can do it?

-Tuddilue

If it is possible then make sure that the rule to remove hit numbers is included.
I did send a seperate post about it.

Please be aware that these are not my rules but just a summation of all the play that has happened since page 1 of this thread.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 02, 02:43 PM 2016
I merely suspected that your rules were too lose.


I only made the suggestion because too many people curve fit their testing without even realizing it.  A good example is that fruitcake XXVV that rambles and bloviates... on an on... while curve fitting that absurd WF/ACETF nonsense of his on the other forum.

"If this was, should of, could of"....bad phrases when testing.

-General

Would you please define what you mean by curve fitting for me.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 02, 02:48 PM 2016
-General

Would you please define what you mean by curve fitting for me.

-Celtic

I will answer that for him.

Herb,

Isn't this what you told Winkel, without understanding what Winkel was saying.

Question to you General,

How do you get from 1 to 2?

I guess you avoiding my question because the answer can be curve fitted?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 02, 02:49 PM 2016
Exactly

The mere fact him and mr j say its curve fitting just shows they dont understand

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 02, 02:49 PM 2016
-General

Would you please define what you mean by curve fitting for me.

-Celtic

Him (and others) are assuming you go back past spins and bet to win. In other words and in laymens terms 5 spins back was number 5 and you say i would have bet 5

Just the typical case of him (and others) not reading it all

If he did he would realise you are just showing how you would have played it given those past spins

If you give me 20 past spins and i say i would have played ktf or something else given tbose spins thats not curve fitting thats how you would have played given that scenario period

Best to ignore it

If i explained given the prior spins how id play thats not curve fitting. Thats just them not understanding. Lol.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 02, 03:01 PM 2016
I will answer that for him.

Herb,

Isn't this what you told Winkel, without understanding what Winkel was saying.

Question to you General,

How do you get from 1 to 2?

I guess you avoiding my question because the answer can be curve fitted?

He accused winkel of curve fitting because he went over past spins?

What a rose bush thorn this guy is when he is around

Winkel should have just ignored it and kept on
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 02, 03:12 PM 2016
RG,

People who have understood Winkel, would have had a lot more to learn,


Here are Winkels words to me:

okay, now I know what you mean.

I tried this, but it is boring and takes a lot of time to calculate.

It is easier to bet some more numbers and win!  :thumbsup:

br
winkel
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 02, 08:45 PM 2016
Him (and others) are assuming you go back past spins and bet to win. In other words and in laymens terms 5 spins back was number 5 and you say i would have bet 5

Just the typical case of him (and others) not reading it all

If he did he would realise you are just showing how you would have played it given those past spins

If you give me 20 past spins and i say i would have played ktf or something else given tbose spins thats not curve fitting thats how you would have played given that scenario period

Best to ignore it

If i explained given the prior spins how id play thats not curve fitting. Thats just them not understanding. Lol.

-RG

Thank you for the explanation.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 03, 05:50 AM 2016
Alot of clouds floated by yesterday. Anyway most annoyed that the recorder mucked up on the 1.4.16 as todays #'s would have been game 100 for the average document.
The part that matters thou is todays #'s
Jackpot247.com 3.4.16 KTF +49 #25.
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 3.4.16
1 29
2 6
3 30
4 15
5 21
6 2
7 11
8 30
9 0
10 1
11 8
12 20
13 1
14 35
15 27
16 29
17 33
18 3
19 25
20 22
21 4
22 35
23 1
24 20
25 24
26 19
27 2
28 14
29 6
30 28
31 11
32 12
33 15
34 28
35 9
36 23
37 14
38 29
39 8
40 6
41 19
42 2
43 35
44 30
45 5
46 16
47 15
48 1
49 0
50 24
51 8
52 32
53 5
54 10
55 19
56 12
57 7
58 22
59 7
60 11

61 29
62 20
63 7
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 03, 06:07 AM 2016
Now for some curve fitting
Flat bet up to the 15th non-hit so 15th non-hit was spin 35.
Code: [Select]
10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22	23	24	25	26	27 [color=red]non-hit[/color]
28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11         [color=red]units[/color]
5.6 5.4 5.2 5 4.8 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 3.4 3.2 3 2.8 2.6 2.4 2.2  [color=red]to .20p unit[/color]
1 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 1 4 1 2 2 2 3 [color=red]spins[/color]
5.6 5.4 10.4 5 9.6 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 15.2 3.6 6.8 6.4 6 8.4 0 0[color=red] stakes[/color]
99.6[color=red]total staked[/color]
108[color=red]value of 15 non-hit[/color] 8.4[color=red]+/-[/color]
Code: [Select]
10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22	23	24	25	26	27
28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11
5.6 5.4 5.2 5 4.8 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 3.4 3.2 3 2.8 2.6 2.4 2.2
1 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 1 4 1 2 2 2 3
5.6 5.4 10.4 5 9.6 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 15.2 3.6 6.8 6.4 6 8.4 0 0
99.6
108 8.4
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tacwell on Apr 03, 06:26 AM 2016
Now for some curve fitting
Flat bet up to the 15th non-hit so 15th non-hit was spin 35.


That's not curve fitting at all. Curve fitting would be designing or tweaking your system around a specific set of spins to return a positive result, not RG's definition.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 03, 06:44 AM 2016
That's not curve fitting at all. Curve fitting would be designing or tweaking your system around a specific set of spins to return a positive result, not RG's definition.
Just having some fun, as someone said if a method can keep in front with a light progression,then surely Ktf will handle flat bet
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: bbb128 on Apr 04, 07:40 AM 2016
Hi friends

What is your target and stop loss for playing KTF?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 07:42 AM 2016
Go some posts back. Like 1 day back. Read celtics rules

400 stop loss

40 win goal

Notto lost 1 session out of 100
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 07:56 AM 2016
-General

This is becoming annoying.
The rules for KTF have been defined many times in this thread, and have not changed, but I guess people do not want to read all of the pages in this thread.

Here are the rules to play KTF one last time:

1 - Minimum BR $400
2 - Take last 10 numbers, or 10 new numbers if you prefer.
3 - Starting at spin #11 bet All of the unhit numbers
4 - Use a +1/-1 Progression
5 - Win stop is $30-40 on an American wheel and $40-$50 on a Euro wheel.
6 - Play until you win the session winstop or deplete your BR

Notto - Let us know if I missed something here.

Thats all there is to it folks.
Oh, and one last thing, forget about the count, averages or anything like that when playing KTF, you do not need to use them.

So, to summarize, just start betting unhit numbers at spin #11 and win your $30-$50 or ride the wave until you reach your profit, deplete your BR, or decide you have had enough.

I believe In almost 100 games Notto has only lost 1 time.
On a Euro wheel that would be about $4,600.00 profit.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 04, 08:02 AM 2016
Quote
2 - Take last 10 numbers, or 10 new numbers if you prefer.
3 - Starting at spin #11 bet All of the unhit numbers

Betting numbers that haven't hit is a bad idea on a live wheel.  It's one way by which you could actually lose at a rate that could theoretically exceed the house edge. You'd be better off betting the numbers that had actually hit on the live wheel.  However, it would still likely be a net loser.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 08:10 AM 2016
Betting numbers that haven't hit is a bad idea on a live wheel.  It's one way by which you could actually lose at a rate that could theoretically exceed the house edge. You'd be better off betting the numbers that had actually hit on the live wheel.  However, it would still likely be a net loser.

Based on sheets posted from Celtic and especially notto i see zero evidence of this being a net loser. Zero. Zero. Zero.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 08:47 AM 2016
Betting numbers that haven't hit is a bad idea on a live wheel.  It's one way by which you could actually lose at a rate that could theoretically exceed the house edge. You'd be better off betting the numbers that had actually hit on the live wheel.  However, it would still likely be a net loser.
Okay General
when i arrive at the B+M and finally get to sit in my favorite seat by the roulette wheel and decide to play my goofy method, i see #34 is on the marquee and a few spins later #35 is now on the marquee, i'd be better of too bet the 34 and 35 as they've hit, better to not try and complete the street with the un-hit 36.
Thanks for that so complete a street not a good idea as its betting unhit #'s
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 08:48 AM 2016
wonder what your going to tell us Turner?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 08:54 AM 2016
 :twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 08:55 AM 2016
Okay General
when i arrive at the B+M and finally get to sit in my favorite seat by the roulette wheel and decide to play my goofy method,


Thanks for that so complete a street not a good idea as its betting unhit #'s

 :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Seriously your the man

This is what happens after page 40. Always said that

Notto let it roll off the back friend not worth it. Dont do what i do....lol
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 09:03 AM 2016
Yeah RG
just when General speaks that familiar smell comes around, whats it called, oh yeah bullshit
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 09:05 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 4.4.16 KTF +49 #13
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 4.4.16
1 33
2 35
3 17
4 22
5 22
6 15
7 4
8 1
9 26
10 24
11 30
12 32
13 11
14 1
15 20
16 12
17 13
18 2
19 15
20 2
21 29
22 34
23 3
24 11
25 29
26 2
27 3
28 18
29 30
30 24
31 25
32 16
33 34
34 15
35 5
36 12
37 17
38 34
39 15
40 27
41 15
42 34
43 13
44 27
45 3
46 7
47 31
48 17
49 26
50 28
51 15
52 36
53 2
54 22
55 16
56 15
57 30
58 1
59 2
60 35

61 12
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 09:11 AM 2016
Yeah RG
just when General speaks that familiar smell comes around, whats it called, oh yeah bullshit

 :twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 09:14 AM 2016
Well today we had the 100th game. So tomorrow we'll have 2 average documents, 1 with 101 games and one where we replace the earliest game with the latest and see how much these 2 averages change over the next 100 games.
Chris bis i believe it was, said one is linear, cant remember the other, do remember a joke was made about Halfords thou.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 09:21 AM 2016
Now the flat bet with KTF.
Last couple have been stopping when the 15th non-hit,hits.
Well as the meter goes up and the profit is there lets say 27 units from 1st 3 bets, like in todays game or yesterdays game +12 units from 5 flat bets theres a decision when to take the win.
Code: [Select]
10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22	23	24	25	26	27
28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11
5.6 5.4 5.2 5 4.8 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 3.4 3.2 3 2.8 2.6 2.4 2.2
1 1 1 2 1 1 1 3 1 1 5 3 1 3 5
5.6 5.4 5.2 10 4.8 4.6 4.4 12.6 4 3.8 18 10.2 3.2 9 14 0 0
1.6 1.8 2 -2.8 2.4 2.6 114.8
8 9 10 -14 12 13 108 -6.8
Well when the 6th non-hit came after 7 spins the profit to £/$1.00 is +38 wouldn't you stop. After all its flat bet.
If you carried on till the 15th non-hit in 30 spins like in todays came spin 40 you'd be -34 flat betting.
So you have to set a win goal
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 09:34 AM 2016
Betting numbers that haven't hit is a bad idea on a live wheel.  It's one way by which you could actually lose at a rate that could theoretically exceed the house edge. You'd be better off betting the numbers that had actually hit on the live wheel.  However, it would still likely be a net loser.

I am still waiting..  For this thread..  Anyone know where it is?

iboba   
March 21, 2009, 6:22am   Report to Moderator
Guest User
OK mate about Winkels G.U.T.,
I have study it,tested it,for months,and come to this;It is not H.G.with all respect to the author.It would need a new thread to elaborate my claims,but the time will show.iboba

THIS IS TOO CONFUSED.MIND BOGGLING.........Agree with you.,mate
 Logged   
E-mail   Reply: 6 - 3



Well really, how can someone claim to know it all, when they don't know what's it all about?

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 09:42 AM 2016
They assume it will fail without knowing thats the problem. Ill take nottos 100 sheets anyday over their words. Talk is cheap
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 09:52 AM 2016
Another problem

VB has no place in certain sections of a strategy forum

Theres a sub section for it isnt there?

I for one am sick of his repetitiveness

He should be back to work soon.....i like the guy but i cant wait till hes back to work cause i think he tries to get a rise out of people

Ignoring him would be a good method. At this point he probably laughs at the keyboard. Ignore him and beat him at his own game.

At this point he enjoys being a pest so ignore it!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 09:55 AM 2016
The question is not to beat him at his own game, but to make him understand, if he doesn't understand whats going on, to keep his mouth shut.

Let people who understand deal with it.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 09:55 AM 2016
The question is not to beat him at his own game, but to make him understand, if he doesn't understand whats going on, to keep his mouth shut.

Let people who understand deal with it.

He doing it to get a rise out of people i believe

I call it being a pain in the arse
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 09:57 AM 2016
A sub section for him to discuss his way would be good

So he can leave the people alone like notto and winkel etc etc

No reason for him to post in this thread

Hes also on roulette 30 roulette forum bet selection doing the same thing

Soooooo annoying

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 10:02 AM 2016
A sub section for him to discuss his way would be good

So he can leave the people alone like notto and winkel etc etc

No reason for him to post in this thread

Hes also on roukette 30 roulette forum bet selection doing the same thing

Soooooo annoying

Yeah, I finally decided to join Bet Selection.  I noticed that too...

Like Steve and Turner say he has knowledge. I don't doubt them.

However, if people don't read and understand , they are at fault, not the original poster.


Here tell me how many times has this been mentioned in the thread?

Hi friends

What is your target and stop loss for playing KTF?

What makes you think, he will play it right?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 10:02 AM 2016
Sorry Notto, not trying to ruin your thread.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 10:14 AM 2016
Ill say one last thing here about him

We all know his thoughts. We all know how he feels about strategies

But he goes into threads and states it anyway

Repetitively

Its not productive and gets a rise out of people. Counter productive for ANY forum to go into threads to do what he does

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 11:02 AM 2016
Anyway

Notto

100 sessions. 1 loss?

All fobt? Any airball?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 12:05 PM 2016
All airball.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 12:06 PM 2016
All airball.

My fault. Jackppt 247 is airball i forgot. Illegal here.....online
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 04, 12:35 PM 2016
Just curious,

Why are you guys posting on a public forum and asking for input and then getting upset when people more experienced than you offer input and tell you the facts?



Pull your heads out of your ass and quit acting like douches.

If you don't like criticism, then you shouldn't post on the big boy boards.

By the way, I'm not the only one that doesn't understand why guys are recycling the same old bunk.  link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=2257.msg151572#msg151572
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 12:44 PM 2016
General
Theres a dart player in the PDC called Bullyboy you fit the picture perfectly
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 12:52 PM 2016
Quite right RG
Dont know why he's in the KTF thread, when no one asked for his advice anyway.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 04, 12:52 PM 2016
FYI,

The earth is round.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 04, 12:53 PM 2016
Quote
Quite right RG
Dont know why he's in the KTF thread, when no one asked for his advice anyway.

(http://link:://growingleaders.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/my-brain-is-full.jpg)

If you guys don't want advice, then why are you posting on a public forum!  DUH!  DUH! 

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 12:54 PM 2016
If you guys don't want advice, then when are you posting on a public forum!  DUH!  DUH!

Xander. Herb. Come on man. Seriously. Can you stop. Dont ruin this thread. Please

Go away
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 04, 12:56 PM 2016
(http://link:s://forums.finalgear.com/attachments/top-gear-2002-2015/jeremy-clarkson-suspended-over-fracas/15881d1428324609-denial_riverinegypt.jpg)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 12:58 PM 2016
K cool man

We get the point

Please stop

Your acting like a child who isnt getting his way

Your being a piece of garbage. Piss off

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 04, 01:16 PM 2016
Quote
Your acting like a child who isnt getting his way

Your being a piece of garbage. Piss off

By the way..

It's "you're", not "your".
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 01:18 PM 2016
By the way..

It's "you're", not "your".

There's a saying. When you are losing an argument attack someones grammer.

I know proper grammar. But i type fast on the phone so i do things like "u"

Go sit in a corner and reflect on yourself. Then come back when u want to play nice

(http://link:://cdn.meme.am/instances/62563671.jpg)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 04, 01:23 PM 2016
Whats kind of funny here, there are a lot of people that enjoy this thread, correct? What if it got locked? Dont worry, I wont do so and even if I did, it would get unlocked. Point being, when my threads get locked, well that seems to be ok?

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 01:23 PM 2016
Dont lock it. Just eject the fuc*ing problem
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 04, 01:26 PM 2016
Dont lock it. Just eject the fuc*ing problem

Like I said, I wont lock it and it would be UNlocked anyways. Just curious regarding my question.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 01:27 PM 2016
I digress. Im not going to disrespect notto any longer. This is his thread.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 04, 01:33 PM 2016
I digress. Im not going to disrespect notto any longer. This is his thread.

but you're closing in on 4K posts.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 02:08 PM 2016
Now's all quite on the western front.
I'll keep on posting about the flat bet part. Any rules i need to know
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tacwell on Apr 04, 02:08 PM 2016
Dont lock it. Just eject the fuc*ing problem

Geezus, there is one common denominator in all these arguments, and it's not The General or Ken or anyone else, it's you RG, you start commenting on peoples threads, someone disagrees and you start flailing your handbag around, dishing out insults and screaming and shouting like a teenage girl, and once everything settles you come in with a few more c***y comments just to stir shit up again, and no-one learns anything.

It was entertaining for a while but now it's just getting tiresome. When you were banned for 5 days there were no arguments, just discussions. So who is the actual "fuc*ing problem"?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 02:17 PM 2016
Just curious,

Why are you guys posting on a public forum and asking for input and then getting upset when people more experienced than you offer input and tell you the facts?



Pull your heads out of your ass and quit acting like douches.

If you don't like criticism, then you shouldn't post on the big boy boards.

By the way, I'm not the only one that doesn't understand why guys are recycling the same old bunk.  link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=2257.msg151572#msg151572


General,
learn to read and understand..  Before calling names to people.

Thta's how I got babbed the first time around. Dealing with Ken, who admitted not having read the thread or understood it in the first place.


READ THIS GENERAL:

SHOW ME WHERE WE HAVE ASKED FOR PEOPLE TO GIVE THEIR OPINION ON THIS THREAD?

IF YOU ARE SO SMART WHY HAVE YOU OMITTED MY QUESTION
HOW DO YOU GET FROM 1 TO 2?

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 02:18 PM 2016
Geezus, there is one common denominator in all these arguments, and it's not The General or Ken or anyone else, it's you RG, you start commenting on peoples threads, someone disagrees and you start flailing your handbag around, dishing out insults and screaming and shouting like a teenage girl, and once everything settles you come in with a few more c***y comments just to stir shit up again, and no-one learns anything.

It was entertaining for a while but now it's just getting tiresome. When you were banned for 5 days there were no arguments, just discussions. So who is the actual "fuc*ing problem"?

Like a duck. Rolls off the back. Have a nice day tac.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 02:25 PM 2016
Geezus, there is one common denominator in all these arguments, and it's not The General or Ken or anyone else, it's you RG, you start commenting on peoples threads, someone disagrees and you start flailing your handbag around, dishing out insults and screaming and shouting like a teenage girl, and once everything settles you come in with a few more c***y comments just to stir shit up again, and no-one learns anything.

It was entertaining for a while but now it's just getting tiresome. When you were banned for 5 days there were no arguments, just discussions. So who is the actual "fuc*ing problem"?
I would let you re-think this.
If it wasn't for the GENERAL, HERB or IBOBA or what ever the F***K his name is.
People following WINKEL and understanding Winkel would have had a lot to learn
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 02:27 PM 2016
I would let you re-think this.
If it wasn't for the GENERAL, HERB or IBOBA or what ever the F***K his name is.
People following WINKEL and understanding Winkel would have had a lot to learn


+1.

Im not the problem. What i am is a loud mouth when it comes to injutices. Things need to be said. The general shouldnt post in this thread period.

While im a member here this man will never ruin a thread.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 03:00 PM 2016
Whats kind of funny here, there are a lot of people that enjoy this thread, correct? What if it got locked? Dont worry, I wont do so and even if I did, it would get unlocked. Point being, when my threads get locked, well that seems to be ok?

Ken

Even thinking about it shows the kind of mind you have....

Isn't that what you said, before I got banned and had to call you names.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 03:00 PM 2016
Even thinking about it shows the kind of mind you have....

Isn't that what you said, before I got banned and had to call you names.

"Recycled crap" comes from the other side just as often
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 03:04 PM 2016
"Recycled crap" comes from the other side just as often

Well, this time around I have decided not to stay quite either.

This is one way of giving back.

I have said this 3 years ago saying this again. If you don't understand any thread or what's being said, stay away from it.
Don't ruin it for others.

This is what happened when PA was teaching how to build your own HG your own way...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 03:12 PM 2016
(http://link:://growingleaders.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/my-brain-is-full.jpg)

If you guys don't want advice, then why are you posting on a public forum!  DUH!  DUH! 

We are here to share our knowledge with people who want to understand and PRACTICE PRACTICE whats being taught.

PRACTICE just like any other sport.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 03:16 PM 2016
We are here to share our knowledge with people who want to understand and PRACTICE PRACTICE whats being taught.

PRACTICE just like any other sport.


And he is here to tell us we are all wrong

Lose lose situation

Thats why i feel going forward we should ignore him
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 03:19 PM 2016
Well, thats up tp Notto..  He is the owner of the thread and can block people from posting and stop ruining the thread any more.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 03:36 PM 2016
Im totally on your side

Im no angel, thats for sure

But what the general does is really a forum downer

And what ive heard through the grape vine he isnt too trustworthy either. A VB player hanging around a strategy forum? Ummmm

A few days ago the general stated to turner he wasnt here to help him or anyone else

So why is he here then? To berate? Lets be real

Oh i know why

He wants data collection in other cities

So he is allowed to find people to data mine auto wheels while putting people down at the same time

Gimme a break.

I was interested in meeting with him at my local casino. Not anymore

If he is here to find people to data mine he should leave it at that and not enter threads to put it down
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 03:45 PM 2016
Im totally on your side

Im no angel, thats for sure

But what the general does is really a forum downer

And what ive heard through the grape vine he isnt too trustworthy either. A VB player hanging around a strategy forum? Ummmm

A few days ago the general stated to turner he wasnt here to help him or anyone else

So why is he here then? To berate? Lets be real

Oh i know why

He wants data collection in other cities

So he is allowed to find people to data mine auto wheels while putting people down at the same time

Gimme a break.

I was interested in meeting with him at my local casino. Not anymore

If he is here to find people to data mine he should leave it at that and not enter threads to put it down

Personally I don't care if he is one or not.  Whatever floats his boat.

However, I will re word this again.  At 1 point in my life I was here to make money, I still am.

However, I have said this, in order to get anything from me on a gold platter it will cost an arm and a leg.

I am giving you advice where you have to go learn for yourself. PRACTICE till it becames second nature to you...


Here is a thread of "GIVING BACK"

link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=13641.msg117658#msg117658


Here is another one:
Read the first sentence here:
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=15710.msg135778#msg135778
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 04, 04:14 PM 2016
So KTF is like you were betting with a fixed set of numbers but you´d wait for ten virtual losses before betting.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 04:23 PM 2016
So KTF is like you were betting with a fixed set of numbers but you´d wait for ten virtual losses before betting.

If KTF was following this it would lose as soon as the second session started.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 04:25 PM 2016
-General

This is becoming annoying.
The rules for KTF have been defined many times in this thread, and have not changed, but I guess people do not want to read all of the pages in this thread.

Here are the rules to play KTF one last time:

1 - Minimum BR $400
2 - Take last 10 numbers, or 10 new numbers if you prefer.
3 - Starting at spin #11 bet All of the unhit numbers
4 - Use a +1/-1 Progression
5 - Win stop is $30-40 on an American wheel and $40-$50 on a Euro wheel.
6 - Play until you win the session winstop or deplete your BR

Notto - Let us know if I missed something here.

Thats all there is to it folks.
Oh, and one last thing, forget about the count, averages or anything like that when playing KTF, you do not need to use them.

So, to summarize, just start betting unhit numbers at spin #11 and win your $30-$50 or ride the wave until you reach your profit, deplete your BR, or decide you have had enough.

I believe In almost 100 games Notto has only lost 1 time.
On a Euro wheel that would be about $4,600.00 profit.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: blueman on Apr 04, 04:26 PM 2016
Once again -why is important to you what general says?? :question:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 04:29 PM 2016
SEE RG,

I know you are a nice guy.  I respect that.

Once again question to everyone, if you can't read a thread and understand, all that's being said. No need to add crap.

Now, we will have someone, Sorry Denzie, I know you admitted playing it wrong, will come along and say I lost my bankroll.

Question, did he understand , what was said, did he practice, no. If you can't follow simple instructions, this game is not for you.

NOTICE I SAID GAME AND NOT THREAD.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 04, 04:31 PM 2016
Well, thats up tp Notto..  He is the owner of the thread and can block people from posting and stop ruining the thread any more.

-Notto

Were you aware of this?
That would be the solution we are all looking for.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 04:31 PM 2016
Once again -why is important to you what general says?? :question:

Because others and him are going around calling people idiots indirectly.

Like I said, read the words between lines.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 04:37 PM 2016
SEE RG,

I know you are a nice guy.  I respect that.

Once again question to everyone, if you can't read a thread and understand, all that's being said. No need to add crap.

Now, we will have someone, Sorry Denzie, I know you admitted playing it wrong, will come along and say I lost my bankroll.

Question, did he understand , what was said, did he practice, no. If you can't follow simple instructions, this game is not for you.

NOTICE I SAID GAME AND NOT THREAD.

I am a nice guy

The only kind of engagement i want is like the one i had in willies thread

But when someone comes with condescending attitude i call it out

If you dont believe in a method leave it alone.

I enjoy the company of those like celtic and willie and notto etc etc its why im here
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 04, 04:47 PM 2016
If KTF was following this it would lose as soon as the second session started.

Well to me it´s like how I described. If you try betting on the same 26 numbers spin after spin, you´ll see there will be several losses in a row. To avoid those losses you would wait for a number of virtual losses in the hope next time you bet for real variance will be on your side i.e. your numbers by that time will be due. So Roulette has no memory, every number has the same chance of hitting, etc. Instead of a fixed set of numbers it can be any set of 26 numbers, that can change every time you´re about to bet. Which means the numbers that just hit in the last 10 spins are your 10 virtual losses.



Title: Re: KTF
Post by: blueman on Apr 04, 04:49 PM 2016
Because others and him are going around calling people idiots indirectly.

Like I said, read the words between lines.

 It doesn't matter what  says but who says. :lol:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 04:57 PM 2016
Well to me it´s like how I described. If you try betting on the same 26 numbers spin after spin, you´ll see there will be several losses in a row. To avoid those losses you would wait for a number of virtual losses in the hope next time you bet for real variance will be on your side i.e. your numbers by that time will be due. So Roulette has no memory, every number has the same chance of hitting, etc. Instead of a fixed set of numbers it can be any set of 26 numbers, that can change every time you´re about to bet. Which means the numbers that just hit in the last 10 spins are your 10 virtual losses.

Here is your first mistake about KTF.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 04:58 PM 2016
It doesn't matter what  says but who says. :lol:

I guess you don't care if someone calls you one. However, a mod got called and I was banned. So why do they have the right to do so?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 04, 05:03 PM 2016
Here is your first mistake about KTF.

I think you didn´t understand what I wrote. Someone else will.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tamino on Apr 04, 05:03 PM 2016
This verbal exchange brings me  back to the days of the old Gambler`s Glen.



( Reference to  the  The General ).
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 05:06 PM 2016
This verbal exchange brings me  back to the days of the old Gambler`s Glen.

All we need is john legend and lanky to swing thru
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 05:15 PM 2016
All jokes aside

All kidding aside

For someone to come and openly state publically they are not here to help anyone but only here to data mine certain cities is just outright absurd

Whats absurd? Bashing methods and threads and people after stating that

Hopefully hes back on the road soon
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 05:18 PM 2016
The General from several days ago

Enough said
 

Quote


The General
 
« Reply #128 on: March 28, 2016, 09:14:38 PM »
Quote
Turner...
Azim...

Guys,

I'm not here to help you.  I merely came here for information from certain people in certain locations.  That's it. 

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 05:19 PM 2016
If you try betting on the same 26 numbers spin after spin

If this is not what you wrote and meant, I am sorry. Tell me  what you meant?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 04, 05:36 PM 2016
Because others and him are going around calling people idiots indirectly.

Like I said, read the words between lines.

I can count 200 posts that have done this very same thing in the last two months.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 05:39 PM 2016
This verbal exchange brings me  back to the days of the old Gambler`s Glen.



( Reference to  the  The General ).

Tamino,

Some call it being gifted... I have an issue. I can read between lines.

You tell me what does this mean:

Quote from: Azim on September 08, 2015, 09:16:06 AM

What do you think of this advice?

BTW there are 19 member's who have posted on this thread..  lets take Turner, Yourself(MrJ) , Himself(P.A) and myself(Azim)
we have 15 member's of which 7 have complained what do you think 8 other's are doing?

The other 8? Hopefully making an appointment with a psychotherapist.

Ken


When he got it back from me, he banned me.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 04, 05:42 PM 2016
I still stand behind that post, no regrets. I banned you but you left a little something out, didn't you??

Your ban was lifted (not by me) in a SHORT period of time.

Ken

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 05:43 PM 2016
I still stand behind that post, no regrets. I banned you but you left a little something out, didn't you??

Your ban was lifted (not by me) in a SHORT period of time.

Ken

Exactly my point, it's your power and whatever comes with it. Thats why you get away with it.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 05:44 PM 2016
I still stand behind that post, no regrets. I banned you but you left a little something out, didn't you??

Your ban was lifted (not by me) in a SHORT period of time.

Ken

It was never lifted, I had to serve it in full.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 05:45 PM 2016
Mr J has been tame the past few days, i have to salute him
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 04, 05:50 PM 2016
@Azim

OK imagine you were betting always on the same numbers, say from o to 25. You´d win most of the time but once the numbers 26 to 36 started hitting they´d wipe out your BR. So instead of betting every spin, you´d think of a worst case scenario where those numbers 26 to 36 would appear, and to avoid it you´d wait for the Run From Hell to end before betting. Like, after a long sequence of LLLLLLLLLL the next spin has got to be a Win, right? That´s the virtual betting where you wait for the 10 virtual losses.
Those numbers from 0 to 25 were just for illustration purposes. Every number has the same chance to appear as the others, so those 26 numbers can change everytime, dynamically. KTF waits for 10 numbers to hit and then bets for the remaining opposite (26). So the 26 are your set of numbers and the previous ten your virtual losses.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 05:52 PM 2016
@Azim

OK imagine you were betting always on the same numbers, say from o to 25. You´d win most of the time but once the numbers 26 to 36 started hitting they´d wipe out your BR. So instead of betting every spin, you´d think of a worst case scenario where those numbers 26 to 36 would appear, and to avoid it you´d wait for the Run From Hell to end before betting. Like, after a long sequence of LLLLLLLLLL the next spin has got to be a Win, right? That´s the virtual betting where you wait for the 10 virtual losses.
Those numbers from 0 to 25 were just for illustration purposes. Every number has the same chance to appear as the others, so those 26 numbers can change everytime, dynamically. KTF waits for 10 numbers to hit and then bets for the remaining opposite (26). So the 26 are your set of numbers and the previous ten your virtual losses.

No it doesn't work like that. There can be 2-3-7 repeats we only wait 10 spins no matter what the outcome.

We areen't waiting because we want virtual losses we are waitng for numbers to pass by and not have to bet 37 numbers as General has said.

This way there is some profit otherwise the payouts would drown you.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 05:54 PM 2016
look at history board, bet all numbers except last 10, can be 30 numbers can be 26 numbers
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 05:56 PM 2016
look at history board, bet all numbers except last 10, can be 30 numbers can be 26 numbers

Yes this works too..  Less time at the table.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 04, 06:09 PM 2016
It was never lifted, I had to serve it in full.

Wrong answer and if you did, cool. I am on other non-related to gambling forums. NO WAY can members talk to mods or the OWNER the way they do so here. Take NOW for instance. You'll go toe to toe with me for the next 3 hours, who has the biggest nuts. You wont stop and *PART* of that reason is.....little if anything happens to you. I know that, you know that and the guests reading this know that.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 06:19 PM 2016
honestly it would be cool if we had a place where everyone helped everyone and those that didnt believe, left. that would be ideal and freakin awesome

i had a GREAT time testing grassroots only to have a few douches ruin it....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 04, 06:29 PM 2016
honestly it would be cool if we had a place where everyone helped everyone and those that didnt believe, left. that would be ideal and freakin awesome

i had a GREAT time testing grassroots only to have a few douches ruin it....

I like wording to be exact. Would you say that thread is SLOW now because of those guys you referred  to? In other words, six months from now, will it be my (and others?) fault that Grassroots is no longer spoken of?

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: icashbot on Apr 04, 06:34 PM 2016
is anyone going to actually  post some stats or work on KTF  :question: :)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tamino on Apr 04, 06:54 PM 2016
With a new  subject title  like" Grassroots 123 Two dozen roulette method" it would be  a drawing point for new members joining this forum. .

Grassroots 123 wont do it  6 months from now without any further description on the heading.




Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 07:08 PM 2016
Wrong answer and if you did, cool. I am on other non-related to gambling forums. NO WAY can members talk to mods or the OWNER the way they do so here. Take NOW for instance. You'll go toe to toe with me for the next 3 hours, who has the biggest nuts. You wont stop and *PART* of that reason is.....little if anything happens to you. I know that, you know that and the guests reading this know that.

Ken

Wrong answer because you want to make it sound like it was lifted...  Anyways..  You be the hero!!!!

Why are you posting in here in the first place.

Yes  not 6 months..  5 years just like GUT no one paid attention cause no-one wanted to make the effort to understand.

We just wait for the #17 and #18 to hit and bet the unhit number to complete the street.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 07:11 PM 2016
at the end of the day the arguments really are petty because we are throwing chips at the same negative expectation table

i dont care if you play 3 numbers for repeats, 30 numbers, a progression, a little dance first, does not matter
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 07:17 PM 2016
I am not saying I got attacked first.

I am and have always said I will not give anything on a gold platter without a price.

If you want to learn what I know, I have directed everyone to the threads and asked to practice.

Some had asked me questions before, I have answered them cause they have shown an effort to practice. The questions were not related to the way I have programmed my bots.

After being accused of getting money or whatever from Steve, I have blocked all pm on here.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 07:26 PM 2016
I can count 200 posts that have done this very same thing in the last two months.

Ken

I have never once called anyone an idiot till i was told one.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 07:41 PM 2016
im actually disappointed. i think this may be the type of rise he wanted

quicker we get back to ktf quicker *we* win
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 07:52 PM 2016
I have received some inside information

i know who the general/xander/herb/ blah blah blah is

link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=iHVvsZZW3Mc
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 07:55 PM 2016
Jackpot247.com 31.3.16 KTF +59 #1
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 31.3.16
1 16
2 27
3 10
4 2
5 9
6 14
7 17
8 29
9 8
10 36
11 11
12 2
13 3
14 24
15 35
16 16
17 24
18 17
19 35
20 35
21 0
22 6
23 3
24 12
25 4
26 16
27 32
28 31
29 30
30 18
31 31
32 0
33 2
34 7
35 1
36 26
37 25
38 1
39 14
40 16
41 24
42 26
43 7
44 17
45 27
46 19
47 8
48 33
49 16
50 7
51 8
52 36
53 6
54 25
55 10
56 9
57 10
58 16
59 27
60 2

61 3
62 21
63 35
64 20
65 12
66 30
67 35
68 13
69 32
70 23
71 34
72 29
73 5
74 26
75 7
76 16
77 4
78 17
79 33
80 24
81 12
82 5
83 24
84 6
85 0

spins 1-10  10/10
       11-20        4-1
       21-30     12+2
       31-40     16+1
as spins 11-20 ends 4,-1   would flat bet recover from 5 repeats spins 16-20? spin 36 is 15th non-hit
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 16 36
2 27 35
3 10 34
4 2 33
5 9 32
6 14 31
7 17 30
8 29 29
9 8 28 stake
10 36 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 11 26 1 27 36 9
12 2 r 1 26 0 -17
13 3 25 1 26 36 -7
14 24 24 1 25 36 4
15 35 23 1 24 36 16
16 16 r 1 23 0 -7
17 24 r 1 23 0 -30
18 17 r 1 23 0 -53
19 35 r 1 23 0 -76
20 35 r 1 23 0 -99
21 0 22 1 23 36 -86
22 6 21 1 22 36 -72
23 3 r 1 21 0 -93
24 12 20 1 21 36 -78
25 4 19 1 20 36 -62
26 16 r 1 19 0 -81
27 32 18 1 19 36 -64
28 31 17 1 18 36 -46
29 30 16 1 17 36 -27
30 18 15 1 16 36 -7
31 31 r 1 15 0 -22
32 0 r 1 15 0 -37
33 2 r 1 15 0 -52
34 7 14 1 15 36 -31
35 1 13 1 14 36 -9
36 26 12 1 13 36 14
37 25 11 1 12
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 04, 08:04 PM 2016
as spins 11-20 ends 4,-1   would flat bet recover from 5 repeats spins 16-20? spin 36 is 15th non-hit
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 16 36
2 27 35
3 10 34
4 2 33
5 9 32
6 14 31
7 17 30
8 29 29
9 8 28 stake
10 36 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 11 26 1 27 36 9
12 2 r 1 26 0 -17
13 3 25 1 26 36 -7
14 24 24 1 25 36 4
15 35 23 1 24 36 16
16 16 r 1 23 0 -7
17 24 r 1 23 0 -30
18 17 r 1 23 0 -53
19 35 r 1 23 0 -76
20 35 r 1 23 0 -99
21 0 22 1 23 36 -86
22 6 21 1 22 36 -72
23 3 r 1 21 0 -93
24 12 20 1 21 36 -78
25 4 19 1 20 36 -62
26 16 r 1 19 0 -81
27 32 18 1 19 36 -64
28 31 17 1 18 36 -46
29 30 16 1 17 36 -27
30 18 15 1 16 36 -7
31 31 r 1 15 0 -22
32 0 r 1 15 0 -37
33 2 r 1 15 0 -52
34 7 14 1 15 36 -31
35 1 13 1 14 36 -9
36 26 12 1 13 36 14
37 25 11 1 12

-Notto

Finally something topic related.

Just a thought but why not try flatbetting and doing a complete session reset after we have ANY positive amount.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 04, 08:10 PM 2016
Since you guys like stir sh#t up...and rather than screwing up the continuity of this thread, feel free to bi#ch at me here:  link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16819.msg151757;topicseen#msg151757



Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 08:15 PM 2016
dont take the bait, leave that thread empty
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 04, 08:42 PM 2016
Since you guys like stir sh#t up...and rather than screwing up the continuity of this thread, feel free to bi#ch at me here:  link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16819.msg151757;topicseen#msg151757

-General

Thank you.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 04, 08:51 PM 2016
dont take the bait, leave that thread empty

-RG

Someone has to say it.
Roulette - Stop throwing gasoline on the fire!!!

I think the General had a great idea.
In the last 30 posts here how many were topic related
He has provided a thread to take all this nonsense to and you can fight to your hearts content with him.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 04, 09:51 PM 2016
Wrong answer because you want to make it sound like it was lifted...  Anyways..  You be the hero!!!!

Why are you posting in here in the first place.

Yes  not 6 months..  5 years just like GUT no one paid attention cause no-one wanted to make the effort to understand.

We just wait for the #17 and #18 to hit and bet the unhit number to complete the street.


FYI....do you realize that you are referred to as..."one of them"? (lol) Seriously, you are in the CREW, congrats on that. Are your posts some kind of a BAITING trick (lmao).....
"See, see, that mod Ken is at it again Steve. See, look Steve (link added), what will you do about that? The forum is now ruined" !!!

You're a joke Azim, nothing more, nothing less.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 06:34 AM 2016
-Notto

Finally something topic related.

Just a thought but why not try flatbetting and doing a complete session reset after we have ANY positive amount.

-Celtic
From the previous 100 games where we use +1/-1, if we are going to flat bet then take the 1st positive to br, past experiance would tell one to take the very 1st positive then reset or move to another table.
From todays #'s we should do exactly that even if it meant giving up the next 2 wins.  If you look at the attached sheet,take the 1st positive you'd be +22.
Oh yes todays game is the 1st where its 7/10 in spins 1-10
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 28 36
2 7 35
3 28 r
4 9 34
5 32 33
6 7 r
7 25 32
8 29 31
9 4 30 stake
10 28 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 19 29 1 30 36 6
12 3 28 1 29 36 13
13 31 27 1 28 36 21
14 29 r 1 27 0 -6
15 7 r 1 27 0 -33
16 13 26 1 27 36 -24
17 24 25 1 26 36 -14
18 0 24 1 25 36 -3
19 10 23 1 24 36 9
20 20 22 1 23 0 -14
21 4 r 1 22 0 -36
22 18 21 1 22 36 -22
23 1 20 1 21 36 -7
24 28 r 1 20 0 -27
25 24 r 1 20 0 -47
26 34 19 1 20 36 -31
27 20 r 1 19 0 -50
28 18 r 1 19 0 -69
29 20 r 1 19 0 -88
30 23 18 1 19 36 -71
31 22 17 1 18 36 -53
32 31 r 1 17 0 -70
33 35 16 1 17 36 -51
34 30 15 1 16 36 -31
35 1 r 1 15 0 -46
36 11 14 1 15 36 -25
37 10 r 1 14 0 -39
38 11 r 1 14 0 -53
39 31 r 1 14 0 -67
40 36 13 1 14 36 -45
41 7 r 1 13 0 -58
42 19 r 1 13 0 -71
43 35 r 1 13 0 -84
44 6 12 1 13 36 -61
45 21 11 1 12 36 -37
46 20 r 1 11 0 -48
47 19 r 1 11 0 -59
48 7 r 1 11 0 -70
49 36 r 1 11 0 -81
50 12 10 1 11 36 -56
51 16 9 1 10 36 -30
52 22 r 1 9 0 -39
53 13 r 1 9 0 -48
54 2 8 1 9 36 -21
55 10 r 1 8 0 -29
56 3 r 1 8 0 -37
57 8 7 1 8 36 -9
58 34 r 1 7 0 -16
59 30 r 1 7 0 -23
60 25 r 1 7 0 -30
0 -30
61 3 r 1 7 0 -37
62 13 r 1 7 0 -44
63 9 r 1 7 0 -51
64 35 r 1 7 0 -58
65 9 r 1 7 0 -65
66 17 6 1 7 36 -36
67 2 r 1 6 0 -42
68 5 5 1 6 36 -12
69 23
70 7
71 4
72 28
73 5
74 18
75 16
76 17
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 06:37 AM 2016
From the previous 100 games where we use +1/-1, if we are going to flat bet then take the 1st positive to br, past experiance would tell one to take the very 1st positive then reset or move to another table.
From todays #'s we should do exactly that even if it meant giving up the next 2 wins.  If you look at the attached sheet,take the 1st positive you'd be +22.
Oh yes todays game is the 1st where its 7/10 in spins 1-10
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 28 36
2 7 35
3 28 r
4 9 34
5 32 33
6 7 r
7 25 32
8 29 31
9 4 30 stake
10 28 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 19 29 1 30 36 6
12 3 28 1 29 36 13
13 31 27 1 28 36 21
14 29 r 1 27 0 -6
15 7 r 1 27 0 -33
16 13 26 1 27 36 -24
17 24 25 1 26 36 -14
18 0 24 1 25 36 -3
19 10 23 1 24 36 9
20 20 22 1 23 0 -14
21 4 r 1 22 0 -36
22 18 21 1 22 36 -22
23 1 20 1 21 36 -7
24 28 r 1 20 0 -27
25 24 r 1 20 0 -47
26 34 19 1 20 36 -31
27 20 r 1 19 0 -50
28 18 r 1 19 0 -69
29 20 r 1 19 0 -88
30 23 18 1 19 36 -71
31 22 17 1 18 36 -53
32 31 r 1 17 0 -70
33 35 16 1 17 36 -51
34 30 15 1 16 36 -31
35 1 r 1 15 0 -46
36 11 14 1 15 36 -25
37 10 r 1 14 0 -39
38 11 r 1 14 0 -53
39 31 r 1 14 0 -67
40 36 13 1 14 36 -45
41 7 r 1 13 0 -58
42 19 r 1 13 0 -71
43 35 r 1 13 0 -84
44 6 12 1 13 36 -61
45 21 11 1 12 36 -37
46 20 r 1 11 0 -48
47 19 r 1 11 0 -59
48 7 r 1 11 0 -70
49 36 r 1 11 0 -81
50 12 10 1 11 36 -56
51 16 9 1 10 36 -30
52 22 r 1 9 0 -39
53 13 r 1 9 0 -48
54 2 8 1 9 36 -21
55 10 r 1 8 0 -29
56 3 r 1 8 0 -37
57 8 7 1 8 36 -9
58 34 r 1 7 0 -16
59 30 r 1 7 0 -23
60 25 r 1 7 0 -30
0 -30
61 3 r 1 7 0 -37
62 13 r 1 7 0 -44
63 9 r 1 7 0 -51
64 35 r 1 7 0 -58
65 9 r 1 7 0 -65
66 17 6 1 7 36 -36
67 2 r 1 6 0 -42
68 5 5 1 6 36 -12
69 23
70 7
71 4
72 28
73 5
74 18
75 16
76 17

Very soon i will start the KTF journey

Im going to be conservative

+20 end session

My local casino is close and i have many airball machines. Take my time....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Apr 05, 06:42 AM 2016
Notto, no clouds on your sky....

I'm wonder how many times did Winkel get itchy fingers to make a comment here!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 05, 07:26 AM 2016
From the previous 100 games where we use +1/-1, if we are going to flat bet then take the 1st positive to br, past experiance would tell one to take the very 1st positive then reset or move to another table.
From todays #'s we should do exactly that even if it meant giving up the next 2 wins.  If you look at the attached sheet,take the 1st positive you'd be +22.
Oh yes todays game is the 1st where its 7/10 in spins 1-10
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 28 36
2 7 35
3 28 r
4 9 34
5 32 33
6 7 r
7 25 32
8 29 31
9 4 30 stake
10 28 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 19 29 1 30 36 6
12 3 28 1 29 36 13
13 31 27 1 28 36 21
14 29 r 1 27 0 -6
15 7 r 1 27 0 -33
16 13 26 1 27 36 -24
17 24 25 1 26 36 -14
18 0 24 1 25 36 -3
19 10 23 1 24 36 9
20 20 22 1 23 0 -14
21 4 r 1 22 0 -36
22 18 21 1 22 36 -22
23 1 20 1 21 36 -7
24 28 r 1 20 0 -27
25 24 r 1 20 0 -47
26 34 19 1 20 36 -31
27 20 r 1 19 0 -50
28 18 r 1 19 0 -69
29 20 r 1 19 0 -88
30 23 18 1 19 36 -71
31 22 17 1 18 36 -53
32 31 r 1 17 0 -70
33 35 16 1 17 36 -51
34 30 15 1 16 36 -31
35 1 r 1 15 0 -46
36 11 14 1 15 36 -25
37 10 r 1 14 0 -39
38 11 r 1 14 0 -53
39 31 r 1 14 0 -67
40 36 13 1 14 36 -45
41 7 r 1 13 0 -58
42 19 r 1 13 0 -71
43 35 r 1 13 0 -84
44 6 12 1 13 36 -61
45 21 11 1 12 36 -37
46 20 r 1 11 0 -48
47 19 r 1 11 0 -59
48 7 r 1 11 0 -70
49 36 r 1 11 0 -81
50 12 10 1 11 36 -56
51 16 9 1 10 36 -30
52 22 r 1 9 0 -39
53 13 r 1 9 0 -48
54 2 8 1 9 36 -21
55 10 r 1 8 0 -29
56 3 r 1 8 0 -37
57 8 7 1 8 36 -9
58 34 r 1 7 0 -16
59 30 r 1 7 0 -23
60 25 r 1 7 0 -30
0 -30
61 3 r 1 7 0 -37
62 13 r 1 7 0 -44
63 9 r 1 7 0 -51
64 35 r 1 7 0 -58
65 9 r 1 7 0 -65
66 17 6 1 7 36 -36
67 2 r 1 6 0 -42
68 5 5 1 6 36 -12
69 23
70 7
71 4
72 28
73 5
74 18
75 16
76 17

-Notto

The first positive on todays game would be on spin 11 and would be +6.
Are you talking about the total of the three sessions on the sheet for the +22?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 07:31 AM 2016
Now the reset/move ?
On the sheet  each game has won on spin 11. Now i'd just watch till the 10 spins 11-20 are done. Now on the sheet we collect spins 21-30, on spins 31 game 3/4/16 win +9
                                   31 game 4/4/16 win +7
                                   31 game 5/4/16 win +7
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 07:33 AM 2016
I was posting Celtic, think the reply is the answer
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 05, 07:34 AM 2016
Now the reset/move ?
On the sheet  each game has won on spin 11. Now i'd just watch till the 10 spins 11-20 are done. Now on the sheet we collect spins 21-30, on spins 31 game 3/4/16 win +9
                                   31 game 4/4/16 win +7
                                   31 game 5/4/16 win +7

Gotcha.
Thank you.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 07:43 AM 2016
Now the reset/move ?
On the sheet  each game has won on spin 11. Now i'd just watch till the 10 spins 11-20 are done. Now on the sheet we collect spins 21-30, on spins 31 game 3/4/16 win +9
                                   31 game 4/4/16 win +7
                                   31 game 5/4/16 win +7

If you were to play flat, perhaps bet on 11th spin only.

Would be curious to see

Will go back on all your sheets this evening to see how many sheets lost on 11th spin vs won on 11th spin
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 08:44 AM 2016
The math says switching machines makes no difference

Perhaps for KTF and betting unhits it can speed things along?

Go for the positive balance on one airball machine and move to the next one. Any positive balance move along to the next one

Bet spin 11. Win. Move to the next machine

My casino has over 15 airball machines....what says you?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Apr 05, 09:16 AM 2016
Focus on increasing the odds. You said you don't care about the odds.  So i suggest understand the basics.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 10:28 AM 2016
OK, so you wait for the numbers that hit in the last ten spins, and it doesn´t matter if they´re uniques or repeats. It´s still about waiting for ten virtual losses, isn´t it? According to the Gap Test in Loothog.com the longest gap for 26 numbers in 100000 spins  is 10.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 11:10 AM 2016
One more thing notto. That one KTF bust you had can you kindly post it?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 11:28 AM 2016
OK, so you wait for the numbers that hit in the last ten spins, and it doesn´t matter if they´re uniques or repeats. It´s still about waiting for ten virtual losses, isn´t it? According to the Gap Test in Loothog.com the longest gap for 26 numbers in 100000 spins  is 10.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 11:31 AM 2016
One more thing notto. That one KTF bust you had can you kindly post it?

Only because i want to analyze how it differs from the other 99 winning sessions

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: goldrosen on Apr 05, 11:59 AM 2016
Only because i want to analyze how it differs from the other 99 winning sessions

Thanks

Nottophammer already posted it many times.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 12:02 PM 2016
Of course I know this is not WTF thread, just sayin i see a lot of "this is how I would have played it" in WTF thread, but with all different starting point n WTF can make all losing sessions provided by the others into a winning one..Im not saying it is bad or what thats  just what I observed..
And yea the rules for KTF is fixed, just follow n there is no "hey guys, this is how I would have played it" happen..yes?

Wrong

You are assuming they are curve fitting. They aren't.

They are stating how they'd play based on the count

As you said, it was the WTF thread. So its based on the count. It will change on a case by case basis. Thats not KTF

Once you comprehend that you will see they aren't turning losers into winners magically.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 12:10 PM 2016


Thanks. So it´s ten uniques afterall. You know, after reading that I realized I had used numbers from 0 to 26 as example in the previous replies, and forgot to include the zero in the gap test. So actually it´s about 27 numbers, not 26. The longest gap between 27 numbers after 100000 spins is 9! I´d run a few more tests collecting 9 spins instead of 10 to see how it performs.

Good luck.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 12:12 PM 2016
Thanks. So it´s ten uniques afterall. You know, after reading that I realized I had used numbers from 0 to 26 as example in the previous replies, and forgot to include the zero in the gap test. So actually it´s about 27 numbers, not 26. The longest gap between 27 numbers after 100000 spins is 9! I´d run a few more tests collecting 9 spins instead of 10 to see how it performs.

Good luck.

Psimones. Meaning same rules but begin after 9 spins vs 10?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 12:29 PM 2016
Erm, thinking about it, it doesn´t make much sense. Of course the longest gap will be shorter if you keep adding more numbers. Example: longest gap between 37 numbers? There´ll be no gap, of course. This is how variance works. To reduce variance just bet on more numbers each time . There´s a price to pay. Everybody knows that if you bet say two dozens at a time (24 numbers) the variance will be significantly shorter than if you bet only one dozen. It seems to win most of the time but when it loses, it loses big, especially when using progressions.
Collecting 9 numbers and betting 27 will apear to win more than 10/26, but at a higher price. This is quite basic.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 12:39 PM 2016
There´s something about KTF though, at least as I see it. Doing a few more gap tests. I´ll report back.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 12:45 PM 2016
Erm, thinking about it, it doesn´t make much sense. Of course the longest gap will be shorter if you keep adding more numbers. Example: longest gap between 37 numbers? There´ll be no gap, of course. This is how variance works. To reduce variance just bet on more numbers each time . There´s a price to pay. Everybody knows that if you bet say two dozens at a time (24 numbers) the variance will be significantly shorter than if you bet only one dozen. It seems to win most of the time but when it loses, it loses big, especially when using progressions.
Collecting 9 numbers and betting 27 will apear to win more than 10/26, but at a higher price. This is quite basic.
sorry for my ignorance, but as soon as i see the maths quotes you lose me.
But glad you are testing
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 01:28 PM 2016
Well it just looks complicated. In fact it´s so simple it´s like common sense. Just give it a try.

You need to collect a certain number of uniques which you´ll bet against in the next spin. Which means you´ll bet all the numbers on the carpet but those. OK.

The numbers you will bet for, in one spin, must have a respective longest gap in 100000 spins (a large number, the so-called "long-run") that is equal to the number of the uniques collected. In other words, the total of the numbers you will bet for in one spin and the longest gap between them must be 37.




Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 01:41 PM 2016
Does anyone think flat betting 11th spin only and switching terminals has any merit?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 01:42 PM 2016
Correction: the "longest gap" as defined by Loothog is slightly confusing:

Note: The gap is how many spins you would have to play in order to hit your number.
For example:
You are tracking 3 and the numbers up are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7
The smallest gap is 3, consisting of numbers 1,2,3
The longest gap is 4, consisting of numbers 4,5,6,7

Does anyone make any sense of the above?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 01:44 PM 2016
i'm too long in the tooth now to worry about the math.
All i was trying for was something simple and whats simpler than playing non-hit of the mat/wheel.
Today i was asked why do i mark the numbers, i said it's all about 0x's then 1x's and then >1x's, comment, lost me.
So quick explanation, showed him the wheel, asked what do you see, get the usual daft answers, so i said this is controversial, you see 37 pockets and they are all due, these 0x's become 1x's and the 0x's are the larger group, so they should be favorite to come in, wow, something twigged, unlike some on here, do a MR J lol.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 01:46 PM 2016
 psimoes
Go on then, i listen, you never know
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 01:56 PM 2016
Does anyone think flat betting 11th spin only and switching terminals has any merit?

RG i seldom look at links,but in the avg doc betting for the 11th non-hit has hit 1st spin 79 out of 101 games. Would it be better going for the 11th non-hit instead of just spin 11
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 02:00 PM 2016
RG i seldom look at links,but in the avg doc betting for the 11th non-hit has hit 1st spin 79 out of 101 games. Would it be better going for the 11th non-hit instead of just spin 11

Thanks notto

I will download excel viewer to view
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 02:34 PM 2016
Notto, your reasoning makes sense. There are always more unique numbers that won´t repeat any sooner. The problem is you´re therefore betting on too many numbers. A loss and it gets difficult to recover.

I explaned how I see this method on post #244 IIRC.

I got the Loothog definition now: when they say the longest gap between two winning numbers is say 14, there were in fact 13 losing numbers between them. They count the second winning number as a gap (confusing). So when they say 22 it´s 21, when they say 10 it´s 9 and so on. Which means the numbers to bet for plus their longest gap must total 37+1.

So 27 + 10 = 37 : still one wheel pocket short.




Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 02:49 PM 2016
Ooops. Got caught by the law of large numbers again. Ran more tests. No longest gap big enough to totalize the 37+1. Sorry friend, this won´t work. It´ll succumb to the house edge.  :(
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 03:07 PM 2016
RG i seldom look at links,but in the avg doc betting for the 11th non-hit has hit 1st spin 79 out of 101 games. Would it be better going for the 11th non-hit instead of just spin 11

The one ktf bust you did have, what was different from the others? Besides the repeats. Any red flags to check for?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 03:20 PM 2016
@ Nottophammer

Maybe my conclusions were premature. Wait 6 uniques and bet 31 against. Try that. Flat bet.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 05, 03:47 PM 2016
@ Nottophammer

Maybe my conclusions were premature. Wait 6 uniques and bet 31 against. Try that. Flat bet.
@psimoes

One bet and stop or start betting with KTF rules? Just curious..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 03:52 PM 2016
This doesn´t foresee what happens if you bet on a rolling basis. There are of course the back to back repeaters. If you´re supposed to win right on the first spin then all the numbers hitting would have to be unique. Need coffee. As I see it, if the simulations for what they´re worth were done right, there should be "one terrible loss"every 100000 spins. But if you stumble on an early repeater, you should recover six spins later.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 03:56 PM 2016
@psimoes

One bet and stop or start betting with KTF rules? Just curious..

Bet and stop I´d say. The other KTF rules seem arbitrary IMHO.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 05, 04:00 PM 2016
This doesn´t foresee what happens if you bet on a rolling basis. There are of course the back to back repeaters. If you´re supposed to win right on the first spin then all the numbers hitting would have to be unique. Need coffee. As I see it, if the simulations for what they´re worth were done right, there should be "one terrible loss"every 100000 spins. But if you stumble on an early repeater, you should recover six spins later.
Isn't it recover 5 spins later?
6+7+8+9+10=40
Maybe I also need coffee  :wink:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 04:06 PM 2016
So your saying wait until theres 6 numbers unique that have NOT repeated. Then bet the remaining numbers. One time. ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 04:16 PM 2016
 psimoes
Did you look at the attachment in reply 856, know idea where this 6 uniques come from.
Repeats is the other topic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 04:20 PM 2016
Isn't it recover 5 spins later?
6+7+8+9+10=40
Maybe I also need coffee  :wink:
Yeah something like that LOL.
So your saying wait until theres 6 numbers unique that have NOT repeated. Then bet the remaining numbers. One time. ?
Yep

This is  fascinating. According to the simulations, the longest gap for 35 numbers is 5 exceeding the total of 38 by 2. So, does this mean if you wait for 4 uniques then bet 38 against the last two you´ll actually have an edge over the house in the course of 100000 spins? WOW...

Test ppl, test

Edit - corrected the numbers.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 04:24 PM 2016
Yeah something like that LOL.Yep

This is  fascinating. According to the simulations, the longest gap for 35 numbers is 5 exceeding the total of 38 by 2. So, does this mean if you wait for 5 uniques then bet 38 against the last three you´ll actually have an edge over the house in the course of 100000 spins? WOW...

Test ppl, test

If thats the case start another thread

1) that'd be fascinating
2) lets respect ktf

I will test
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 04:29 PM 2016
Attention, I edited my post: bet wait 4 uniques, bet agains the last 2.


Yeah its at the verge of hijacking the thread. Better start a new one.

@Notto yes I read the attachment. See my reply in post #822. That´s my reasonings.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 05, 04:30 PM 2016
Bet and stop I´d say. The other KTF rules seem arbitrary IMHO.

-psimoes

I was not aware that there was more than one set of KTF rules.

The Websters dictionary defines arbitrary as meaning "random and without thought."

I do not believe that since KTF has evolved that this is true.
Notto, and a few others, put a lot of thought, and testing behind the initial framework and subsequent tweaks to get it to the point it is at today.

And remember those arbitrary rules are the ones that won 99 out of 100 sessions.

If there is a better set of rules would you please post them for us?

-Celtic

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 04:38 PM 2016
-psimoes

I was not aware that there was more than one set of KTF rules.

The Websters dictionary defines arbitrary as meaning "random and without thought."

I do not believe that since KTF has evolved that this is true.
Notto, and a few others, put a lot of thought, and testing behind the initial framework and subsequent tweaks to get it to the point it is at today.

And remember those arbitrary rules are the ones that won 99 out of 100 sessions.

If there is a better set of rules would you please post them for us?

-Celtic

I want to physically see that 1 out of 100 one. Celtic can you point me to it?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 05, 04:43 PM 2016
I want to physically see that 1 out of 100 one. Celtic can you point me to it?

-Celtic

I am still looking for it myself.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 04:44 PM 2016
-Celtic

I am still looking for it myself.

-Celtic

Thx. I want to see what separates it
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 04:53 PM 2016
Here it is 22.1.16
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 05, 04:54 PM 2016
Here it is 22.1.16

Thank you Notto

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 05, 05:02 PM 2016
Thx. I want to see what separates it

-RG

Look at post #69 in the Jackpot Joy thread.

FYI - That was just before this KTF thread was started.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 05:02 PM 2016
-psimoes

I was not aware that there was more than one set of KTF rules.

The Websters dictionary defines arbitrary as meaning "random and without thought."

I do not believe that since KTF has evolved that this is true.
Notto, and a few others, put a lot of thought, and testing behind the initial framework and subsequent tweaks to get it to the point it is at today.

And remember those arbitrary rules are the ones that won 99 out of 100 sessions.

If there is a better set of rules would you please post them for us?

-Celtic
I´m referring to the +1/-1 progression and the other rules you posted. As I believe flat betting would do well,  all the rest seems to rely on luck.
Mind, I said "arbitrary" because it doesn´t seem to follow the logic I´m seeing in KTF. So, "arbitrary" like in "gambling". So, to eliminate as much risk as possible, I look for more math and less gambling and all that. It´s just my opinion.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 05:11 PM 2016
Can't put this more plainly, if you going to use KTF and flat bet, take the 1st time you make any profit. Be there, then gone.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 05, 05:12 PM 2016
I´m referring to the +1/-1 progression and the other rules you posted. As I believe flat betting would do well,  all the rest seems to rely on luck.
Mind, I said "arbitrary" because it doesn´t seem to follow the logic I´m seeing in KTF. So, "arbitrary" like in "gambling". So, to eliminate as much risk as possible, I look for more math and less gambling and all that. It´s just my opinion.

-psimoes

You have to admit that it's one helluva lot of luck to win 99 out of 100 games :wink:

When you come up with another set of rules we can follow step by step, like the existing ones, please post them for us.

Thank you for clearing this up.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 05:16 PM 2016
-psimoes

You have to admit that it's one helluva lot of luck to win 99 out of 100 games :wink:
When you come up with another set we can follow step by step, like the existing ones, please post them for us.

Thank you for clearing this up.

-Celic

This is what intrigues me about ktf

1 out of 100. Thats just awesome

This is the only game the 400 stoploss was reached?

99 games. 40 win goal. +3960. 1 loss -400
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 05:19 PM 2016
-psimoes

You have to admit that it's one helluva lot of luck to win 99 out of 100 games :wink:
When you come up with another set we can follow step by step, like the existing ones, please post them for us.

Thank you for clearing this up.

-Celic


No problem.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 05:20 PM 2016
Can't put this more plainly, if you going to use KTF and flat bet, take the 1st time you make any profit. Be there, then gone.

Yes, I believe it´s the best thing to do.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 05:21 PM 2016
Notto. On the 99 winning games and 1 losing game was a 400 stoploss used? I know ive asked before sorry
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 05, 05:28 PM 2016
This is what intrigues me about ktf

1 out of 100. Thats just awesome

This is the only game the 400 stoploss was reached?

99 games. 40 win goal. +3960. 1 loss -400

-RG

No there are a few.
I thought you said yoiu were going to read all the pages of this thread.

Check post 648.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 05:37 PM 2016
-RG

No there are a few.
I thought you said yoiu were going to read all the pages of this thread.

Check post 648.

-Celtic

thank you

i just read it

wow what a roller coaster that was

the only difference id make is aborting after 1 win

1 win per airball machine. use the history board for my 10 number reference. go in immediately. once im positive at ALL even if its $6 next machine

the ONLY difference i make to the KTF rules is the win goal being lower. less exposure and move on
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 06:43 PM 2016
Are you playing random #’s with KTF? To me no. Why. Like in GUT we start with 37 #’s, they are all unique at that moment. As the 0x’s become 1x’s and reduces in number, what says the 0x’s are random #’s, when we are playing unique 0x’s, they are not just say 20 randomly picked #’s.
Have you ever checked the 0x’s in KTF, let’s look at the 14th 0x. Because the games are always played the same, the information that’s collected is the same for each game. So at present time the 14th 0x averages to come in within 2spins and has a max of 4spins in 100 recorded games.
Would the results in the average document be the same for 24 randomly picked #’s? Let’s say you pick dozen1 & 2, are these a random 24#’s, unlike the 24 #'s we’d be betting in KTF for the 14th 0x which have been reduced from 37 unique #’s.

Whats the answer?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Apr 06, 01:21 AM 2016
Would the results in the average document be the same for 24 randomly picked #’s?

"Of course not!" - would say cousin from some old TV show.

Of course not, should say everyone that can read!
I mean, you are giving so many Facts!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 06, 01:36 AM 2016
I´d say No. The stats can be valid for individual numbers and not for a static set of numbers. But random flow is fractal so something alike could probably be devised on another scale for single dozens.

It´s fascinating that the 0xs in the last 37 spins might have been the 4xs in the previous.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 05:18 AM 2016
psimoes
This is why i disregard the maths. Althou i'll except the formula works, otherwise how would man have got to the moon, know distance to moon, etc,etc.
A few posts back Denzie asked about a number hitting twice, math came up with every 1,000 odd spins. Well look at todays #'s,i've marked with X.
By the way a hard trot/count but +1/-1 got KTF to +77.
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 6.4.16	
1 10
2 8
3 35
4 5
5 2
6 6
7 10
8 2
9 33
10 32
11 1
12 8 X
13 8 X
14 6
15 23
16 5
17 3 X
18 3 X
19 17
20 22
21 30
22 27
23 20
24 31
25 33
26 36
27 16
28 5
29 26
30 10
31 21
32 7
33 6 X
34 6 X
35 29
36 3
37 18
38 28
39 16
40 28
41 0
42 8
43 23
44 12
45 9
46 24
47 11
48 18
49 4
50 26
51 27
52 21
53 23
54 13
55 19
56 33
57 30
58 4
59 22
60 10

61 0
62 13
63 7
64 1
65 8
66 27
67 34
68 17
69 14
70 10
71 23
72 4
73 22
74 9
75 4
76 1
77 10
78 19
79 26
80 20
81 14
82 9 X
83 9 X

Oh yeah useless piece of info,but the compare on the show informed us that #9 is hot, has been out 12 times in 300 spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 05:26 AM 2016
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16738.msg149856#msg149856

Reply 3, look who gave this figure :lol:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 05:51 AM 2016
LOL aside,Turners okay, so are Mr j and General, just dont necessarily have to agree with their answers.
But you can see if math says
Its not 1/37 at all

Its 1/37 x 1/37

Once ever 1370 spins 
 you'd never get anywhere.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 06, 05:55 AM 2016
It´s one every 37 spins. One every thousand and so spins is the probability of specific number, not any of the 37, of hitting back to back. That trot is just deviation at work.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 06:10 AM 2016
Now the reset/move ?
On the sheet  each game has won on spin 11. Now i'd just watch till the 10 spins 11-20 are done. Now on the sheet we collect spins 21-30, on spins 31 game 3/4/16 win +9
                                   31 game 4/4/16 win +7
                                   31 game 5/4/16 win +7
I said to celticknits i was not going to be putting sheets up much more as i have the 100 games in the average doc, and its still growing.
But as flat bet has come up on KTF i've still got some interest in the subject, Mr J i could not careless if KTF just fades away, some will have found the topic helpfull, some not.

To todays sheet, i said a few posts back if flat bet take the 1st + to the BR.
So spins 1-10 tells us the bet on spin 11 is 29 units, win +7, now just watch. Now we wait and see what spins 21-30 give, bet on spin 31 27 units, win +9, spin 51 look back to spins 41-50 again bet 27 units, win +9.
Just away to flat bet.
Thank you for your time, good luck.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 06:12 AM 2016
It´s one every 37 spins. One every thousand and so spins is the probability of specific number, not any of the 37, of hitting back to back. That trot is just deviation at work.

Thanks for the post but i dont bother with the math, if i listen to the math, i'd give up roulette as the cant win so you cant win brigade would win.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 06, 06:23 AM 2016
Hence why I don´t play for real anymore. I´m down 60 units and can´t play VB where I am.

BTW what´s your net profit with KTF?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 06:28 AM 2016
Code: [Select]
Date 	      win	 lose 	total
22.12.15 62
23.12.15 56
24.12.15 93
27.12.15 57
28.12.15 52
29.12.15 45
30.12.15 50
31.12.15 50
02.01.16 56
03.01.16 65
04.01.16 57
05.01.16 45
06.01.16 51
07.01.16 50
08.01.16 59
09.01.16 45
10.01.16 47
11.01.16 49
12.01.16 51
13.01.16 50
14.01.16 59
15.01.16 45
16.01.16 45
17.01.16 50
18.01.16 45
19.01.16 38
20.01.16 43
21.01.16 45 1398
22.01.16 655
23.01.16 52
24.01.16 50
25.01.16 38
26.01.16 50
27.01.16 38
28.01.16 57
29.01.16 48
30.01.16 54
31.01.16 56
01.02.16 46
02.02.16 51
03.02.16 45
04.02.16 54
05.02.16 46
06.02.16 39
07.02.16 45
08.02.16 42
09.02.16 44
10.02.16 53
11.02.16 34
12.02.16 38
13.02.16 47
14.02.16 45
15.02.16 50
16.02.16 59
17.02.16 45
18.02.16 56
19.02.16 29
20.02.16 59
21.02.16 45
22.02.16 66
23.02.16 38
24.02.16 51
25.02.16 53
26.02.16 57
27.02.16 50
28.02.16 53
29.02.16 44
01.03.16 52
02.03.16 53
03.03.16 63
04.03.16 45
05.03.16 50
06.03.16 51
07.03.16 41
08.03.16 49
09.03.16 45
10.03.16 47
11.03.16 53
12.03.16 79
13.03.16 66
14.03.16 46
15.03.16 42
16.03.16 43
17.03.16 41
18.03.16 40
19.03.16 50
20.03.16 53
21.03.16 41
22.03.16 42
23.03.16 50
24.03.16 47
25.03.16 75
26.03.16 50
27.03.16 43
28.03.16 47
29.03.16 48
30.03.16 79
31.03.16 59
02.04.16 51
03.04.04 49
04.04.16 49
05.04.16 44







        5070   655 4415
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 06, 06:41 AM 2016
I said to celticknits i was not going to be putting sheets up much more as i have the 100 games in the average doc, and its still growing.
...
I think I speak for more than me when I say that it is really good that you are adding sheets and all that information. I always learn something.

I'm also doing my own sheet after your numbers so for me I always learn something new when comparing with yours.

So for me just sending them up!! I like them alot!
Thanks!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 06, 09:07 AM 2016
I said to celticknits i was not going to be putting sheets up much more as i have the 100 games in the average doc, and its still growing.

I will miss these sheets when they stop coming.


But as flat bet has come up on KTF i've still got some interest in the subject, Mr J i could not careless if KTF just fades away, some will have found the topic helpfull, some not.

If it was not for Your KTF, and the WTF Repeats spin-off, I can honestly say that I would not be playing roulette and would just have gone back to playing Blackjack.

To todays sheet, i said a few posts back if flat bet take the 1st + to the BR.
So spins 1-10 tells us the bet on spin 11 is 29 units, win +7, now just watch. Now we wait and see what spins 21-30 give, bet on spin 31 27 units, win +9, spin 51 look back to spins 41-50 again bet 27 units, win +9.
Just away to flat bet.
Thank you for your time, good luck.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 06, 09:11 AM 2016
-Notto

Forgetting the disaster on January 22, can you tell me what the largest drawdown was on the 99 winning games, and point me to which game that was?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 09:16 AM 2016
-Notto

Forgetting the disaster on January 22, can you tell me what the largest drawdown was on the 99 winning games, and point me to which game that was?

-Celtic

Literally just PMed him that

I want to know when i should or shouldnt stop
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 09:36 AM 2016
psimoes
This is why you should practice, gain knowledge from GUT.  Your interested in willie hill game, its on FOBT, RNG.

What happens, open the screen theres the marquee, never played this machine, theres 16#'s, nice, why, because even thou we dont know when this mickey mouse roulette was last spun, those 16#'s, dare i say it, past spins are to be watched in my spins 1-10.
You should see 18, why, the 16#'s which has 1 repeat,has not repeated, so lost, now bet the 19#'s win, i should have chipped up but just flat bet,so a small loss. Rebet the 19, lose, anyway you can see i keep flat betting and stop on 10th spin +3.00 for .25p units. You can see i win on the #2 as its part of the 19#'s, but not of the 16#'s from the marque.
The win on #11 says to me the marquee #'s should still hit, they do.

Now as mrs notto is in the dentist i dont want to get to envolved in the game,so its just watch, using Gut. spins 1-10 9 non-hit, so at spin 39/40 could be 24 non-hit, thats the average 15 in 30 spins, write countback in, we're ready to do battle with the RNG.
Just watch, 5 non-hit on the bounce so this is fast trot, what showed at 13th spin, 12 non-hits have come, so 25-11-1, its now 23-13-1,  the >1x's need to rise,to do this we need a 1x to repeat, so dont just bet the 1x's bet all 1x+>1x, 14 units we win.
Just watch, look another repeat the 1x's have come, but we are just watching, we end spins 11-20 8,+3, do you know what +3 means?
25th spin not far off, at 24th spin we've had 3 non-hit so trot is still fast, its already past 18/19-14/15 - 03/05, so i bet the 20,1x's lose, rebet the 21,1x's which really is 1x+>1x, chipped up as well,win, rebet the 21 and -1 the units, win.

+14.75 for .25p units.

conclusion study GUT, 12 unique, 12unique in Xspins oh yes and LOTT, and forget the maths,it just holds you back.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 09:38 AM 2016
Just seen the replies, i'll have to do it later as off out, run about day
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 06, 09:43 AM 2016
Literally just PMed him that

I want to know when i should or shouldnt stop

-RG

If I was to play KTF instead of Repeats I would use that figure as the required BR.

The one thing that has surprised me since starting to play roulette in January of this year are the number of players that are underfunded and when they lose start to run down strategies like KTF because they lose.   Hey, it's gambling and you are going to lose at some point but as long as you win more than you lose who cares.

I think that Notto has more than shown that KTF works just fine the way it is with a $400 BR but if you wanted to win ALL of those 99 games you would have needed a bigger BR and for me that would have been the current largest loss plus the value of the next bet to continue.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 09:53 AM 2016
-RG

If I was to play KTF instead of Repeats I would use that figure as the required BR.

The one thing that has surprised me since starting to play roulette in January of this year are the number of players that are underfunded and when they lose start to run down strategies like KTF because they lose.   Hey, it's gambling and you are going to lose at some point but as long as you win more than you lose who cares.

I think that Notto has more than shown that KTF works just fine the way it is with a $400 BR but if you wanted to win ALL of those 99 games you would have needed a bigger BR and for me that would have been the current largest loss plus the value of the next bet to continue.

-Celtic

Thats the figure i want to know. Largest drawdown on winning games. Thats the stoploss i want to use

Rich
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 06, 11:04 AM 2016
psimoes
This is why you should practice, gain knowledge from GUT.  Your interested in willie hill game, its on FOBT, RNG.

What happens, open the screen theres the marquee, never played this machine, theres 16#'s, nice, why, because even thou we dont know when this mickey mouse roulette was last spun, those 16#'s, dare i say it, past spins are to be watched in my spins 1-10.
You should see 18, why, the 16#'s which has 1 repeat,has not repeated, so lost, now bet the 19#'s win, i should have chipped up but just flat bet,so a small loss. Rebet the 19, lose, anyway you can see i keep flat betting and stop on 10th spin +3.00 for .25p units. You can see i win on the #2 as its part of the 19#'s, but not of the 16#'s from the marque.
The win on #11 says to me the marquee #'s should still hit, they do.

Now as mrs notto is in the dentist i dont want to get to envolved in the game,so its just watch, using Gut. spins 1-10 9 non-hit, so at spin 39/40 could be 24 non-hit, thats the average 15 in 30 spins, write countback in, we're ready to do battle with the RNG.
Just watch, 5 non-hit on the bounce so this is fast trot, what showed at 13th spin, 12 non-hits have come, so 25-11-1, its now 23-13-1,  the >1x's need to rise,to do this we need a 1x to repeat, so dont just bet the 1x's bet all 1x+>1x, 14 units we win.
Just watch, look another repeat the 1x's have come, but we are just watching, we end spins 11-20 8,+3, do you know what +3 means?
25th spin not far off, at 24th spin we've had 3 non-hit so trot is still fast, its already past 18/19-14/15 - 03/05, so i bet the 20,1x's lose, rebet the 21,1x's which really is 1x+>1x, chipped up as well,win, rebet the 21 and -1 the units, win.

+14.75 for .25p units.

conclusion study GUT, 12 unique, 12unique in Xspins oh yes and LOTT, and forget the maths,it just holds you back.

Tried to read the GUT thread once, too many pages full of garbage from other posters, the signal to noise ratio in that thread is rather poor. But I´ve seen your records from KTF and let me tell you that´s impressive. If KTF is based on GUT I´ll try again to read it.
Although I don´t play anymore I always come back to the forum for useful info.
Good luck :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 06, 11:28 AM 2016
-RG

If I was to play KTF instead of Repeats I would use that figure as the required BR.

The one thing that has surprised me since starting to play roulette in January of this year are the number of players that are underfunded and when they lose start to run down strategies like KTF because they lose.   Hey, it's gambling and you are going to lose at some point but as long as you win more than you lose who cares.

I think that Notto has more than shown that KTF works just fine the way it is with a $400 BR but if you wanted to win ALL of those 99 games you would have needed a bigger BR and for me that would have been the current largest loss plus the value of the next bet to continue.

-Celtic

I started playing in 2013 and for a few months never lost any session! Then it  went on a rollercoaster losing and never fully recovering. I should have stopped when I broke even. In the end I decided to take the small loss and stopped for good. It all looked like the methods tested on Roulette Xtreme. All systems can be Holy Graals in the beginning but after a few hundreds of spins they all go down.

I use to play Roulette Royale with my cell phone. Initial bank roll is 5000. But there´s no table limit. My BR went up to five million once, but that´s because I kept increasing the wages, up to 10 000 per single number. The thing is the drawdowns increase as well, down to the initial bank roll.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 11:32 AM 2016
I started playing in 2013 and for a few months never lost any session! Then it  went on a rollercoaster losing and never fully recovering. I should have stopped when I broke even. In the end I decided to take the small loss and stopped for good. It all looked like the methods tested on Roulette Xtreme. All systems can be Holy Graals in the beginning but after a few hundreds of spins they all go down.

I use to play Roulette Royale with my cell phone. Initial bank roll is 5000. But there´s no table limit. My BR went up to five million once, but that´s because I kept increasing the wages, up to 10 000 per single number. The thing is the drawdowns increase as well, down to the initial bank roll.

Ask yourself this: why do most methods do very well then tank after 100 spins. Lets figure that out. Or maybe switch methods after every win

But KTF seems to be special...nottos results really cant be disputed?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 06, 11:54 AM 2016
....................................If KTF is based on GUT I´ll try again to read it. ......................

-psimoes

Look at Nottos post 916.
He states: ..... conclusion study GUT, 12 unique, 12unique in Xspins oh yes and LOTT, and forget the maths,it just holds you back.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 06, 12:00 PM 2016
Ask yourself this: why do most methods do very well then tank after 100 spins. Lets figure that out. Or maybe switch methods after every win

But KTF seems to be special...nottos results really cant be disputed?
That´s the million dollar question and I suspect the answer is one million dollars minus 2.7%...

Really wish KTF all the best. Cause I might start playing for real again you never know.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 06, 12:06 PM 2016
-psimoes

Look at Nottos post 916.
He states: ..... conclusion study GUT, 12 unique, 12unique in Xspins oh yes and LOTT, and forget the maths,it just holds you back.

-Celtic

The irony is KTF´s principle is all about math! Flawed or not and hope not, it´s still math.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 12:07 PM 2016
Draw downs 25.3.16
Lot of work going over old sheets, this one is recent,even found a mistake, turns out better. What you have to remember is theres early wins for less than 50/60, take +20, then next bet you are -4, then next spin back to +20, do you stop, if later and you've hit a 3 figure loss and then you start to come back towards a positive, then the next spin makes you plus more than the previous high of +20, do you stop.
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 13 36
2 33 35
3 5 34
4 6 33
5 13 r
6 18 32
7 25 31
8 17 30
9 11 29 stake
10 22 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 7 27 1 28 36 8
12 5 r 1 27 0 -19
13 0 26 2 54 72 -1
14 30 25 1 26 36 9
15 14 24 1 25 36 20
16 0 r 1 24 0 -4
17 34 23 2 48 72 20
18 6 r 1 23 0 -3
19 7 r 2 46 0 -49
20 33 r 3 69 0 -118
21 32 22 4 92 144 -66
22 35 21 3 66 108 -24
23 2 20 2 42 72 6
24 16 19 1 20 36 22
25 22 r 1 19 0 3
26 22 r 2 38 0 -35
27 6 r 3 57 0 -92
28 5 r 4 76 0 -168
29 36 18 5 95 180 -83
30 6 r 4 72 0 -155
31 8 17 5 90 180 -65
32 33 r 4 68 0 -133
33 31 16 5 85 180 -38
34 30 r 4 64 0 -102
35 25 r 5 80 0 -182
36 14 r 6 96 0 -278
37 18 r 7 112 0 -390
38 6 r 8 128 0 -518
39 1 15 9 144 324 -338
40 35 r 8 120 0 -458
41 6 r 9 135 0 -593
42 9 14 10 150 360 -383
43 30 r 9 126 0 -509
44 22 r 10 140 0 -649
45 29 13 11 154 396 -407
46 12 12 10 130 360 -177
47 21 11 9 108 324 39
48 22 r 8 88 0 -49
49 14 r 9 99 0 -148
50 10 10 10 110 360 102
51 7
52 31
53 10
54 31
55 31
56 26
57 24
58 28
59 19
60 5

61 25
62 7
63 20
64 11
65 35
66 27
67 25
68 1
69 28
70 26
the mistake i made the win at spin 47, 10 units, when it was 9, still good enough to stop, but like you see if you KTF its +102, but would you go there, me, a big no, take the 39, or better still take the +20, second time around
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 12:09 PM 2016
The irony is KTF´s principle is all about math! Flawed or not and hope not, it´s still math.

Yes, average
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 06, 12:28 PM 2016
Draw downs 25.3.16
Lot of work going over old sheets, this one is recent,even found a mistake, turns out better. What you have to remember is theres early wins for less than 50/60, take +20, then next bet you are -4, then next spin back to +20, do you stop, if later and you've hit a 3 figure loss and then you start to come back towards a positive, then the next spin makes you plus more than the previous high of +20, do you stop.
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 13 36
2 33 35
3 5 34
4 6 33
5 13 r
6 18 32
7 25 31
8 17 30
9 11 29 stake
10 22 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 7 27 1 28 36 8
12 5 r 1 27 0 -19
13 0 26 2 54 72 -1
14 30 25 1 26 36 9
15 14 24 1 25 36 20
16 0 r 1 24 0 -4
17 34 23 2 48 72 20
18 6 r 1 23 0 -3
19 7 r 2 46 0 -49
20 33 r 3 69 0 -118
21 32 22 4 92 144 -66
22 35 21 3 66 108 -24
23 2 20 2 42 72 6
24 16 19 1 20 36 22
25 22 r 1 19 0 3
26 22 r 2 38 0 -35
27 6 r 3 57 0 -92
28 5 r 4 76 0 -168
29 36 18 5 95 180 -83
30 6 r 4 72 0 -155
31 8 17 5 90 180 -65
32 33 r 4 68 0 -133
33 31 16 5 85 180 -38
34 30 r 4 64 0 -102
35 25 r 5 80 0 -182
36 14 r 6 96 0 -278
37 18 r 7 112 0 -390
38 6 r 8 128 0 -518
39 1 15 9 144 324 -338
40 35 r 8 120 0 -458
41 6 r 9 135 0 -593
42 9 14 10 150 360 -383
43 30 r 9 126 0 -509
44 22 r 10 140 0 -649
45 29 13 11 154 396 -407
46 12 12 10 130 360 -177
47 21 11 9 108 324 39
48 22 r 8 88 0 -49
49 14 r 9 99 0 -148
50 10 10 10 110 360 102
51 7
52 31
53 10
54 31
55 31
56 26
57 24
58 28
59 19
60 5

61 25
62 7
63 20
64 11
65 35
66 27
67 25
68 1
69 28
70 26
the mistake i made the win at spin 47, 10 units, when it was 9, still good enough to stop, but like you see if you KTF its +102, but would you go there, me, a big no, take the 39, or better still take the +20, second time around

-Notto

Thank you very much.
I think a $800 BR should cover it.
In this example I would have quit at spin 23 because I would have already been sitting there for approx. 45 minutes or so and it is time to go.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 12:50 PM 2016
Look spin 16  +36  spin 34 +39  stopped with 36 if you KTF at spin 48 +238 but you do not want to be there take the earlier win
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 34 36
2 4 35 j247 6.2.16
3 0 34
4 7 33
5 34 r
6 25 32
7 23 31
8 22 30
9 6 29 stake
10 9 28 non-hit return
11 27 27 1 28 36 8
12 3 26 1 27 36 17
13 11 25 1 26 36 27
14 11 r 1 25 0 2
15 13 24 2 50 72 24
16 17 23 1 24 36 36
17 3 r 1 23 0 13
18 34 r 2 46 0 -33
19 4 r 3 69 0 -102
20 16 22 4 92 144 -50
21 17 r 3 66 0 -116
22 21 21 4 88 144 -60
23 18 20 3 63 108 -15
24 7 r 2 40 0 -55
25 3 r 3 60 0 -115
26 32 19 4 80 144 -51
27 5 18 3 57 108 0
28 34 r 2 36 0 -36
29 17 r 3 54 0 -90
30 19 17 4 72 144 -18
31 3 r 3 51 0 -69
32 10 16 4 68 144 7
33 17 r 3 48 0 -41
34 30 15 4 64 144 39
35 23 r 3 45 0 -6
36 21 r 4 60 0 -66
37 18 r 5 75 0 -141
38 4 r 6 90 0 -231
39 3 r 7 105 0 -336
40 3 r 8 120 0 -456
41 8 14 9 135 324 -267
42 14 13 8 112 288 -91
43 16 r 7 91 0 -182
44 33 12 8 104 288 2
45 17 r 7 84 0 -82
46 16 r 8 96 0 -178
47 26 11 9 108 324 38
48 24 10 8 88 288 238
49 0 r 7 70 0 168
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 12:52 PM 2016
Yes, average

Largest drawdown on winning games?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 06, 01:14 PM 2016
Look spin 16  +36  spin 34 +39  stopped with 36 if you KTF at spin 48 +238 but you do not want to be there take the earlier win
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 34 36
2 4 35 j247 6.2.16
3 0 34
4 7 33
5 34 r
6 25 32
7 23 31
8 22 30
9 6 29 stake
10 9 28 non-hit return
11 27 27 1 28 36 8
12 3 26 1 27 36 17
13 11 25 1 26 36 27
14 11 r 1 25 0 2
15 13 24 2 50 72 24
16 17 23 1 24 36 36
17 3 r 1 23 0 13
18 34 r 2 46 0 -33
19 4 r 3 69 0 -102
20 16 22 4 92 144 -50
21 17 r 3 66 0 -116
22 21 21 4 88 144 -60
23 18 20 3 63 108 -15
24 7 r 2 40 0 -55
25 3 r 3 60 0 -115
26 32 19 4 80 144 -51
27 5 18 3 57 108 0
28 34 r 2 36 0 -36
29 17 r 3 54 0 -90
30 19 17 4 72 144 -18
31 3 r 3 51 0 -69
32 10 16 4 68 144 7
33 17 r 3 48 0 -41
34 30 15 4 64 144 39
35 23 r 3 45 0 -6
36 21 r 4 60 0 -66
37 18 r 5 75 0 -141
38 4 r 6 90 0 -231
39 3 r 7 105 0 -336
40 3 r 8 120 0 -456
41 8 14 9 135 324 -267
42 14 13 8 112 288 -91
43 16 r 7 91 0 -182
44 33 12 8 104 288 2
45 17 r 7 84 0 -82
46 16 r 8 96 0 -178
47 26 11 9 108 324 38
48 24 10 8 88 288 238
49 0 r 7 70 0 168

-Notto

Agreed spin 16 is close enough to the $40-$50 winstop for me and I would have been out of there.
Using these same numbers on an American wheel I would have been out one spin sooner because the winstop on an American wheeel is $30-40.
Had I been stupid enough, or more likely, greedy enough to continue past spin 17 I would have continued until either a break even or first + on the BR. This would have been a break even at spin 27 and about an hour of playing time.
I wonder how many would have had the discipline to quit at the break even point.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on Apr 06, 01:25 PM 2016
Look spin 16  +36  spin 34 +39  stopped with 36 if you KTF at spin 48 +238 but you do not want to be there take the earlier win
Notto this is what people make accusations on curve fitting. All the profit loss results will be valid if there is a fixed rule for exiting the game. I get it that anyone can and are free to keep their own exit rule, but the question is what is the exit rule for your results? As an example, It could be let's say when one of the following three conditions are met.
1. Profit of 30-50 units or loss of 500-700 units
2. When the 40 spins are complete
3. When 15 non hits appear. 

Of course this is just an example but what is your exit rule for the game?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 01:26 PM 2016


Of course this is just an example but what is your exit rule for the game?

30 to 50 win goal. 400 stoploss
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 01:39 PM 2016
Heres todays #'s jackpot247. Priyanka think this meets your 3 conditions, but then i need to give some riddles
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 10 36
2 8 35
3 35 34
4 5 33
5 2 32
6 6 31
7 10 r
8 2 r
9 33 30 stake
10 32 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 1 28 1 29 36 7
12 8 r 1 28 0 -21
13 8 r 2 56 0 -77
14 6 r 3 84 0 -161
15 23 27 4 112 144 -129
16 5 r 3 81 0 -210
17 3 26 4 108 144 -174
18 3 r 3 78 0 -252
19 17 25 4 104 144 -212
20 22 24 3 75 108 -179
21 30 23 2 48 72 -155
22 27 22 1 23 36 -142
23 20 21 1 22 36 -128
24 31 20 1 21 36 -113
25 33 r 1 20 0 -133
26 36 19 2 40 72 -101
27 16 18 1 19 36 -84
28 5 r 1 18 0 -102
29 26 17 2 36 72 -66
30 10 r 1 17 0 -83
31 21 16 2 34 72 -45
32 7 15 1 16 36 -25
33 6 r 1 15 0 -40
34 6 r 2 30 0 -70
35 29 14 3 45 108 -7
36 3 r 2 28 0 -35
37 18 13 3 42 108 31
38 28 12 2 26 72 77
39 16
40 28
41 0
42 8
43 23
44 12
45 9
46 24
47 11
48 18
49 4
50 26
51 27
52 21
53 23
54 13
55 19
56 33
57 30
58 4
59 22
60 10

61 0
62 13
63 7
64 1
65 8
66 27
67 34
68 17
69 14
70 10
71 23
72 4
73 22
74 9
75 4
76 1
77 10
78 19
79 26
80 20
81 14
82 9
9
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 01:43 PM 2016
think this meets your 3 conditions, but then i need to give some riddles


Omg. You kill me. Lol
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on Apr 06, 01:44 PM 2016
Heres todays #'s jackpot247. Priyanka think this meets your 3 conditions.
My conditions are only examples. As there is no answer am assuming what RG posted is your exit condition.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 01:48 PM 2016
My conditions are only examples. As there is no answer am assuming what RG posted is your exit condition.

As i understand it
, its what i posted
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 01:51 PM 2016
Based on what i have seen. Notto celtic correct me if im wrong

2 banks of 400 (800 total) should be enough

By the time you bust 1 bank the 3rd bank should already be created

If the 1 in 100 holds true boy oh boy we have a good time
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 02:40 PM 2016
Yes RG
 take todays game, those 3 repeats made it a nigtmare of a game, but +1/-1 handled it well, draw down got close.
The average of 5 non-hit in each block of 10 spins, well it got that average, just didn't need the cluster of repeats, that happens,but not every game.
In the average doc  theres been 103 games, 10th non-hit has 81 games its avg to hit is1.2345, now, its max is 4. Could max 4 be constant or maybe in another 81 games the max might become 5, how long is a bit of string. That piece of info has no baring in KTF thou, its just betting non-hit.
Where that info is of use is like the game i explained to Psimoes, if your going to play like that then you need all the info you can get, the biggest piece comes from understanding, here we go,GUT. Not crossings,but the trot/count.
Todays game played with a modified marty would win every non-hit, biggest repeat is going for the 34th non-hit, 12 spins, now you could handle 12 spins, but i've seen it take 38 spins on rng and thats max in 7 years of games played and recorded, this is the info you need if your going to play singles.


What would be good RG is if you could get some games from your local casino, 60 spins per game
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 06, 02:41 PM 2016
Based on what i have seen. Notto celtic correct me if im wrong

2 banks of 400 (800 total) should be enough

By the time you bust 1 bank the 3rd bank should already be created

If the 1 in 100 holds true boy oh boy we have a good time

-RG

This is your choice but not what I said.
In Nottos post #926 he posted the session with the largest drawdown of the 99 out of 100 winners.

I said that if I was to play KTF I would change the rules to reflect an $800 BR to play.
I got the $800 from the largest drawdown on the sheet that he posted.

I would leave all of the other rules as they are.

Not sure why you split the $800 into 2x$400 sections but oh well.
If you did split the BR you are still playing with a $400 BR per session.
If you do that you will not win 99 out of 100 games.
That was the purpose of me asking what game had the largest drawdown, aside from the January 22 fiasco.

I do not think it would be fair to expect Notto to go over all the games and tell us how many $400 BR games would have lost.
Start at page 1 and you could do this yourself.

So to summarize you would have won 99 out of the 100 games with an $800 BR and using all of the other rules as they have been stated many times.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 06, 02:46 PM 2016
..........................................
What would be good RG is if you could get some games from your local casino, 60 spins per game

And post the numbers.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 02:50 PM 2016
-RG

This is your choice but not what I said.
In Nottos post #926 he posted the session with the largest drawdown of the 99 out of 100 winners.

I said that if I was to play KTF I would change the rules to reflect an $800 BR to play.
I got the $800 from the largest drawdown on the sheet that he posted.

I would leave all of the other rules as they are.

Not sure why you split the $800 into 2x$400 sections but oh well.
If you did split the BR you are still playing with a $400 BR per session.
If you do that you will not win 99 out of 100 games.
That was the purpose of me asking what game had the largest drawdown, aside from the January 22 fiasco.

I do not think it would be fair to expect Notto to go over all the games and tell us how many $400 BR games would have lost.
Start at page 1 and you could do this yourself.

So to summarize you would have won 99 out of the 100 games with an $800 BR and using all of the other rules as they have been stated many times.

-Celtic

Ok. So my question has been answered

Of the winning games largest drawdown was 800

Therefore with a 400 stoploss there was more then 1 bust out of 100

Therefore we should increase the stoploss to 800

Wanna play gotta pay
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 02:52 PM 2016
Tried to read the GUT thread once, too many pages full of garbage from other posters, the signal to noise ratio in that thread is rather poor. But I´ve seen your records from KTF and let me tell you that´s impressive. If KTF is based on GUT I´ll try again to read it.
Although I don´t play anymore I always come back to the forum for useful info.
Good luck :thumbsup:
Iwas just like you, i see all those pages and thought fcuk that. But it popped up again, so i thought lets have a look, well best read ever.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: 3Nine on Apr 06, 02:58 PM 2016
Thanks, RG - you just saved me a lot of reading and time. 

I'm not comfortable with risking 800 to win 40.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 03:08 PM 2016
Thanks, RG - you just saved me a lot of reading and time. 

I'm not comfortable with risking 800 to win 40.

To each their own

Large number bets arent for everyone

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 03:29 PM 2016
But. In defense, 1 out of 100 is damn good IMO

And 800 was only reached once
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: 3Nine on Apr 06, 03:30 PM 2016
But. In defense, 1 out of 100 is damn good IMO

And 800 was only reached once

I agree, it sounds solid. It's just not for me.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 06, 04:47 PM 2016
Iwas just like you, i see all those pages and thought fcuk that. But it popped up again, so i thought lets have a look, well best read ever.

Theis reminds of an old system by Winkel from which I learned a lot. Twas called Win As Much As You Want. Worth a read as well.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 07, 05:22 AM 2016
+79  x marks the double
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 7.4.16
1 8
2 31
3 25
4 5
5 11
6 11x
7 28
8 29
9 1
10 14
11 30
12 28
13 36
14 1
15 12
16 19
17 26
18 22
19 15
20 10
21 35
22 24
23 34
24 34x
25 14
26 1
27 22
28 34
29 30
30 36
31 5
32 35
33 14
34 24
35 18
36 4
37 15
38 5
39 17
40 33
41 24
42 4
43 12
44 36
45 32
46 32x
47 25
48 14
49 2
50 24
51 19
52 1
53 0
54 33
55 32
56 11
57 0
58 26
59 30
60 4

61 11
62 4
63 35
64 22
65 24
66 19
67 1
68 28
69 4
70 5
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 07, 06:36 AM 2016
Theis reminds of an old system by Winkel from which I learned a lot. Twas called Win As Much As You Want. Worth a read as well.
Psimoes

Do you still play the Win as much as you want? I tried it on DS a couple of years ago but then I didn't understand much about roulette  O0
Maybe test it again..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 07, 06:39 AM 2016
+79  x marks the double
Thanks for the numbers. Is it on airball you these doubles?
Because I see them alot in RNG..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on Apr 07, 08:19 AM 2016
But. In defense, 1 out of 100 is damn good IMO

And 800 was only reached once
RG - I don't mean any offence. But 1 out of 100 for a 40-800 win-loss has gone through only 5 cycles.  100 might seem a big number but consider that one loss could erase 20 wins ( am not saying that is to happen) meaning it has gone through 5 cycles and has failed in 1 cycles.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 07, 08:22 AM 2016
No offense taken. I enjoy your posts.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 07, 12:43 PM 2016
Psimoes

Do you still play the Win as much as you want? I tried it on DS a couple of years ago but then I didn't understand much about roulette  O0
Maybe test it again..

Never played it until recently. It taught me about the cyclic nature of hot and cold numbers. And how to win with a bankroll to match the table limits. That´s how I won the 130000 at rouletteplayers.org. Took advantage of the maximum bets of 500 per individual numbers at the time. Now with the limits at 100 I´m the last on the leaderboard. And also because of testing new betting methods there. eh
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 07, 02:13 PM 2016
Never played it until recently. It taught me about the cyclic nature of hot and cold numbers. And how to win with a bankroll to match the table limits. That´s how I won the 130000 at rouletteplayers.org. Took advantage of the maximum bets of 500 per individual numbers at the time. Now with the limits at 100 I´m the last on the leaderboard. And also because of testing new betting methods there. eh
Thanks for the answer. Impressive that you won so much! Yes it has alot to learn. It's like reading it with new eyes now that I'm learning the KTF and WTF. Really interesting aproach..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 05:20 AM 2016
+62 again X marks denzies double that we should only see once every odd 1,000 spins :lol:
Code: [Select]
	jackpotjoy 8.4.16
1 24
2 13
3 22
4 34
5 7
6 3
7 23
8 7
9 9
10 27
11 10
12 10 X
13 28
14 22
15 29
16 6
17 26
18 26 X
19 3
20 14
21 32
22 19
23 21
24 20
25 29
26 20
27 6
28 11
29 2
30 25
31 4
32 34
33 24
34 33
35 12
36 23
37 10
38 10 X
39 18
40 5
41 34
42 34 X
43 24
44 8
45 16
46 11
47 36
48 27
49 19
50 11
51 34
52 32
53 11
54 4
55 26
56 25
57 5
58 24
59 7
60 2

61 3
62 21
63 28
64 17
65 4
66 17
67 21
68 12
69 23
70 2
71 34
72 30
73 14
74 35
75 3
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Foolwise on Apr 08, 06:32 AM 2016
double that we should only see once every odd 1,000 spins :lol:
Who said that.. that will not happen every 1000. It happens quite frequent than that. It is common to see 2-3 occurances within 100 spins.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 08, 07:28 AM 2016
Thank You for todays numbers Notto

Still no joy at my B&M.
They are saying it may be another two weeks before roulette is back up and running.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 08, 07:30 AM 2016
Thank You for todays numbers Notto

Still no joy at my B&M.
They are saying it may be another two weeks before roulette is back up and running.

-Celtic

Thats unreal

My local casino as i said has like 15 airball machines

When they swap for new ones they do a few at a timr
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 08, 07:34 AM 2016
Thats unreal

My local casino as i said has like 15 airball machines

When they swap for new ones they do a few at a timr

There was only one large wheel before with 8 betting stations.
Cannot get any info from installation crew.
The main thing I want to know is the time allowed to place bets.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:15 AM 2016
Okay why did Ktf fail on 22/1/16
From the actual sheet,spins 21-30 would seem to be its downfall, the trot/count was avg 50/50 in 11-20, 5,+0
spins 21-30, 8,-2  again spins 31-40 was what you expect to get in spins 11-20,not 31-40  23,+0  If you look after spin 19, the next 11 spins only 3 non-hit came, The count of all 30 spins reads 16, 0X's to 14 1x+>1x Pretty close to 50/50, but betting 24non-hit 2/3rd of the wheel and to be betting on21non-hit at spin 30,has been rare to this date.
As i have said we dont get to use KTF on jackpot247.com for nearly 24 hrs, so if it came the next day, would it be like finding 123-123-123
The game gave the 15 non-hit in 30 spins, if you know countback, it shows upto 16th non-hit is where it could be, it's the 3 repeats and the 4 repeats that do the damage. The 3 repeats slowed the trot, then the non-hit kept to the trot, then the trot slowed, repeats came, then the non-hit came fast, the trot then went 50/50, as countback shows this trot.
Now if you dont KTF, you just watch, this is where you need to know the average of non-hits and thats why you collect an average document, with average to hit,countback you can make decisions,if your watching and just seen the count obliturated by spin 30, 17th non-hit hits on average within 2spins and has now missed for 4 spins, aint it time to bet that its going to hit soon, as upto the 7/4/16 its max is 8 spins, which last happened on the 10/1/16, so not often

For Priyanka, after this day,with the tweeks members have suggested it has won.
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 33 36
2 33 r
3 25 35
4 3 34
5 23 33 J247 22.01.16
6 1 32
7 14 31
8 22 30
9 2 29 stake
10 23 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 34 28 1 29 36 7
12 31 27 1 28 36 15
13 1 r 1 27 0 -12
14 1 r 2 54 0 -66
15 7 26 3 81 108 -39
16 2 r 2 52 0 -91
17 16 25 3 78 108 -61
18 22 r 2 50 0 -111
19 5 24 3 75 108 -78
20 5 r 2 48 0 -126
21 16 r 3 72 0 -198
22 22 r 4 96 0 -294
23 19 23 5 120 180 -234
24 20 22 4 92 144 -182
25 7 r 3 66 0 -248
26 30 21 4 88 144 -192
27 34 r 3 63 0 -255
28 20 r 4 84 0 -339
29 22 r 5 105 0 -444
30 33 r 6 126 0 -570
31 12 20 7 147 252 -465
32 36 19 6 120 216 -369
33 27 18 5 95 180 -284
34 14 r 4 72 0 -356
35 4 17 5 90 180 -266
36 4 r 4 68 0 -334
37 24 16 5 85 180 -239
38 1 r 4 64 0 -303
39 11 15 5 80 180 -203
40 35 14 4 60 144 -119
41 14 r 3 42 0 -161
42 26 13 4 56 144 -73
43 11 r 3 39 0 -112
44 30 r 4 52 0 -164
45 24 r 5 65 0 -229
46 5 r 6 78 0 -307
47 1 r 7 91 0 -398
48 0 12 8 104 288 -214
49 33 r 7 84 0 -298
50 13 13 8 96 288 -106
51 3 r 7 91 0 -197
52 30 r 8 104 0 -301
53 30 r 9 117 0 -418
54 4 r 10 130 0 -548
55 16 r 11 143 0 -691
56 24 r 12 156 0 -847
57 4 r 13 169 0 -1016
58 26 r 14 182 0 -1198
59 29 10 15 195 540 -853
60 27 r 14 140 0 -993
0 -993
61 8 9 15 150 540 -603
62 2 r 14 126 0 -729
63 36 r 15 135 0 -864
64 33 r 16 144 0 -1008
65 2 r 17 153 0 -1161
66 26 r 18 162 0 -1323
67 31 r 19 171 0 -1494
68 33 r 20 180 0 -1674
69 29 8 21 189 756 -1107
70 36 r 20 160 0 -1267
71 22 r 21 168 0 -1435
72 29 r 22 176 0 -1611
73 18 7 23 184 828 -967
74 32 6 22 154 792 -329
75 16 r 21 126 0 -455
76 2 r 22 132 0 -587
77 33 r 23 138 0 -725
78 29 r 24 144 0 -869
79 32 r 25 150 0 -1019
80 15 5 26 156 936 -239
81 12 r 25 125 0 -364
82 2 r 26 130 0 -494
83 26 r 27 135 0 -629
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:17 AM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)	
0 37
1 35 36
2 3 35
3 8 34
4 12 33
5 25 32 J247 22.12.15
6 7 31
7 1 30
8 11 29
9 23 28 stake
10 8 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 0 27 1 28 36 8
12 35 r 1 27 0 -19
13 8 r 2 54 0 -73
14 33 26 3 81 108 -46
15 18 25 2 52 72 -26
16 36 24 1 25 36 -15
17 7 r 1 24 0 -39
18 19 23 2 48 72 -15
19 8 r 1 23 0 -38
20 28 22 2 46 72 -12
21 23 r 1 22 0 -34
22 17 21 2 44 72 -6
23 7 r 1 21 0 -27
24 7 r 2 42 0 -69
25 12 r 3 63 0 -132 DD
26 13 20 4 84 144 -72
27 31 19 3 60 108 -24
28 9 18 2 38 72 10
29 14 17 1 18 36 28
30 12 r 1 17 0 11
31 14 r 2 34 0 -23
32 19 r 3 51 0 -74
33 29 16 4 68 144 2
34 24 15 3 48 108 62
35 12
36 1
37 1
38 27
39 35
40 9
41 10
42 10
43 35
44 36
45 19
46 33
47 35
48 24
49 17
50 36
51 6
52 31
53 32
54 4
55 34
56 17
57 34
58 32
59 27
60 18
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 7 36
2 13 35
3 32 34
4 32 r
5 32 r J247 23.12.15
6 36 33
7 34 32
8 29 31
9 27 30 stake
10 14 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 20 28 1 29 36 7
12 21 27 1 28 36 15
13 22 26 1 27 36 24
14 8 25 1 26 36 34
15 36 r 1 25 0 9
16 16 24 2 50 72 31
17 3 23 1 24 36 43
18 33 22 1 23 36 56
19 36
20 31
21 16
22 24
23 0
24 19
25 32
26 27
27 0
28 12
29 21
30 24
31 19
32 16
33 4
34 18
35 13
36 28
37 34
38 32
39 34
40 1
41 15
42 31
43 24
44 8
45 24
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:18 AM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)	
0 37
1 13 36
2 6 35
3 29 34
4 19 33
5 17 32 J247 24.12.15
6 9 31
7 21 30
8 29 r
9 2 29 stake
10 22 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 12 27 1 28 36 8
12 1 26 1 27 36 17
13 6 r 1 26 0 -9
14 9 r 2 52 0 -61
15 34 25 3 78 108 -31
16 1 r 2 50 0 -81
17 0 24 3 75 108 -48
18 33 23 2 48 72 -24
19 28 22 1 23 36 -11
20 4 21 1 22 36 3
21 33 r 1 21 0 -18
22 31 20 2 42 72 12
23 5 19 1 20 36 28
24 33 r 1 19 0 9
25 29 r 2 38 0 -29
26 12 r 3 57 0 -86
27 17 r 4 76 0 -162
28 33 r 5 95 0 -257
29 32 18 6 114 216 -155
30 4 r 5 90 0 -245
31 6 r 6 108 0 -353
32 29 r 7 126 0 -479 DD
33 25 17 8 144 288 -335
34 15 16 7 119 252 -202
35 2 r 6 96 0 -298
36 25 r 7 112 0 -410
37 14 15 8 128 288 -250
38 18 14 7 105 252 -103
39 9 r 6 84 0 -187
40 12 r 7 98 0 -285
41 29 r 8 112 0 -397
42 23 13 9 126 324 -199
43 11 12 8 104 288 -15
44 4 r 7 84 0 -99
45 7 11 8 96 288 93
46 24
47 13
48 25
49 30
50 35
51 25
52 23
53 18
54 12
55 31
56 12
57 1
58 30
59 18
60 25
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 30 36
2 31 35
3 31 r
4 13 34
5 27 33 J247 27.12.15
6 8 32
7 18 31
8 35 30
9 21 29 stake
10 8 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 15 28 1 29 36 7
12 23 27 1 28 36 15
13 3 26 1 27 36 24
14 34 25 1 26 36 34
15 0 24 1 25 36 45
16 29 23 1 24 36 57
17 35
18 29
19 9
20 16
21 15
22 14
23 10
24 19
25 22
26 24
27 29
28 0
29 22
30 9
31 15
32 10
33 36
34 6
35 23
36 12
37 29
38 23
39 3
40 16
41 21
42 31
43 9
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:20 AM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 30 36
2 24 35
3 19 34
4 12 33
5 13 32 J247 28.12.15
6 30 r
7 29 31
8 26 30
9 1 29 stake
10 11 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 26 r 1 28 0 -28
12 14 27 2 56 72 -12
13 13 r 1 27 0 -39
14 21 26 2 54 72 -21
15 5 25 1 26 36 -11
16 16 24 1 25 36 0
17 11 r 1 24 0 -24
18 10 23 2 48 72 0
19 23 22 1 23 36 13
20 35 21 1 22 36 27
21 14 r 1 21 0 6
22 25 20 2 42 72 36
23 8 19 1 20 36 52
24 20 18 1 19 36 69
25 8
26 0
27 15
28 6
29 26
30 17
31 26
32 31
33 6
34 2
35 20
36 21
37 35
38 33
39 34
40 5
41 2
42 31
43 30
44 13
45 23
46 8
47 27
48 22
49 9
50 17
51 22
52 28
53 0
54 1
55 3
56 22
57 3
58 6
59 17
60 21
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 36 36
2 17 35
3 2 34
4 8 33
5 26 32 J247 29.12.15
6 23 31
7 25 30
8 13 29
9 35 28 stake
10 20 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 15 26 1 27 36 9
12 32 25 1 26 36 19
13 0 24 1 25 36 30
14 30 23 1 24 36 42
15 20 r 1 23 0 19
16 6 22 2 46 72 45
17 4 21 1 22 36 59
18 34
19 7
20 29
21 6
22 1
23 17
24 13
25 6
26 22
27 5
28 7
29 13
30 35
31 20
32 7
33 30
34 16
35 22
36 6
37 12
38 5
39 15
40 33
41 17
42 24
43 18
44 13
45 18
46 1
47 29
48 0
49 0
50 31
51 26
52 34
53 10
54 14
55 35
56 23
57 25
58 30
59 29
60 29
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:21 AM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 20 36
2 32 35
3 36 34
4 28 33
5 15 32 J247 30.12.15
6 1 31
7 25 30
8 5 29
9 33 28 stake
10 35 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 35 r 1 27 0 -27
12 15 r 2 54 0 -81
13 13 26 3 81 108 -54
14 19 25 2 52 72 -34
15 0 24 1 25 36 -23
16 23 23 1 24 36 -11
17 8 22 1 23 36 2
18 23 r 1 22 0 -20
19 2 21 2 44 72 8
20 23 r 1 21 0 -13
21 4 20 2 42 72 17
22 29 19 1 20 36 33
23 34 18 1 19 36 50
24 0
25 23
26 9
27 8
28 31
29 9
30 11
31 18
32 14
33 11
34 19
35 33
36 23
37 9
38 29
39 12
40 27
41 13
42 19
43 24
44 7
45 1
46 2
47 32
48 26
49 23
50 18
51 4
52 0
53 30
54 13
55 35
56 11
57 18
58 10
59 18
60 8
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 4 36
2 23 35
3 33 34
4 36 33
5 36 r J247 31.12.15
6 30 32
7 5 31
8 28 30
9 1 29 stake
10 13 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 6 27 1 28 36 8
12 27 26 1 27 36 17
13 20 25 1 26 36 27
14 29 24 1 25 36 38
15 24 23 1 24 36 50
16 28
17 6
18 19
19 13
20 32
21 29
22 15
23 15
24 31
25 15
26 26
27 22
28 9
29 16
30 23
31 33
32 0
33 5
34 18
35 13
36 12
37 4
38 4
39 16
40 7
41 3
42 7
43 32
44 10
45 5
46 7
47 33
48 33
49 10
50 21
51 12
52 10
53 12
54 1
55 18
56 29
57 1
58 5
59 15
60 15
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:23 AM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 27 36
2 20 35
3 25 34
4 23 33
5 6 32 J247 02.01.16
6 20 r
7 13 31
8 28 30
9 17 29 stake
10 26 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 26 r 1 28 0 -28
12 14 27 2 56 72 -12
13 0 26 1 27 36 -3
14 18 25 1 26 36 7
15 13 r 1 25 0 -18
16 3 24 2 50 72 4
17 11 23 1 24 36 16
18 14 22 1 23 36 29
19 4 21 1 22 36 43
20 27 r 1 21 0 22
21 34 20 2 42 72 52
22 29 19 1 20 36 68
23 19
24 2
25 26
26 22
27 18
28 19
29 31
30 32
31 6
32 9
33 13
34 17
35 2
36 27
37 0
38 21
39 4
40 18
41 31
42 8
43 6
44 14
45 11
46 12
47 18
48 33
49 29
50 19
51 16
52 2
53 5
54 4
55 27
56 13
57 33
58 16
59 3
60
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)	
0 37
1 1 36
2 17 35
3 27 34
4 29 33
5 3 32 J247 03.01.16
6 12 31
7 2 30
8 31 29
9 17 r stake
10 18 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 27 r 1 28 0 -28
12 17 r 2 56 0 -84
13 28 27 3 84 108 -60
14 15 26 2 54 72 -42
15 4 25 1 26 36 -32
16 1 r 1 25 0 -57
17 1 r 2 50 0 -107
18 20 24 3 75 108 -74
19 29 r 2 48 0 -122
20 24 23 3 72 108 -86
21 29 r 2 46 0 -132
22 9 22 3 69 108 -93
23 26 21 2 44 72 -65
24 25 20 1 21 36 -50
25 0 19 1 20 36 -34
26 3 r 1 19 0 -53
27 14 18 2 38 72 -19
28 4 r 1 18 0 -37
29 29 r 2 36 0 -73
30 20 r 3 54 0 -127
31 4 r 4 72 0 -199
32 31 r 5 90 0 -289
33 9 r 6 108 0 -397
34 10 17 7 126 252 -271
35 31 r 6 102 0 -373
36 15 r 7 119 0 -492
37 17 r 8 136 0 -628 DD
38 13 16 9 153 324 -457
39 22 15 8 128 288 -297
40 8 14 7 105 252 -150
41 11 13 6 84 216 -18
42 17 r 5 65 0 -83
43 2 r 6 78 0 -161
44 22 r 7 91 0 -252
45 4 r 8 104 0 -356
46 23 12 9 117 324 -149
47 4 r 8 96 0 -245
48 9 r 9 108 0 -353
49 10 r 10 120 0 -473
50 19 11 11 132 396 -209
51 26 r 10 110 0 -319
52 1 r 11 121 0 -440
53 28 r 12 132 0 -572
54 35 10 13 143 468 -247
55 6 9 12 120 432 65
56 10
57 25
58 13
59 33
60 29
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:24 AM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 27 36
2 25 35
3 23 34
4 27 r
5 36 33 J247 04.01.16
6 3 32
7 10 31
8 25 r
9 19 30 stake
10 21 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 32 28 1 29 36 7
12 1 27 1 28 36 15
13 8 26 1 27 36 24
14 17 25 1 26 36 34
15 32 r 1 25 0 9
16 25 r 2 50 0 -41
17 16 24 3 75 108 -8
18 11 23 2 48 72 16
19 22 22 1 23 36 29
20 33 21 1 22 36 43
21 25 r 1 21 0 22
22 1 r 2 42 0 -20
23 34 20 3 63 108 25
24 20 19 2 40 72 57
25 32
26 28
27 27
28 9
29 22
30 20
31 29
32 16
33 18
34 14
35 5
36 17
37 17
38 1
39 32
40 34
41 24
42 22
43 21
44 27
45 8
46 34
47 22
48 32
49 23
50 27
51 28
52 10
53 6
54 6
55 6
56 34
57 20
58 6
59 15
60 36
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 3 36
2 25 35
3 2 34
4 8 33
5 29 32 J247 05.01.16
6 16 31
7 6 30
8 29 r
9 22 29 stake
10 6 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 28 28 1 29 36 7
12 34 27 1 28 36 15
13 10 26 1 27 36 24
14 35 25 1 26 36 34
15 13 24 1 25 36 45
16 13 r 1 24 0 21
17 1 23 2 48 72 45
18 11 22 1 22 36 59
19 6
20 3
21 18
22 3
23 12
24 19
25 2
26 31
27 24
28 29
29 4
30 19
31 9
32 7
33 18
34 3
35 17
36 29
37 16
38 16
39 9
40 23
41 34
42 6
43 15
44 10
45 36
46 0
47 25
48 1
49 31
50 5
51 33
52 19
53 9
54 5
55 10
56 18
57 9
58 26
59 25
60 14
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:26 AM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 28 36
2 35 35
3 15 34
4 20 33
5 15 r J247 06.01.16
6 30 32
7 13 31
8 32 30
9 2 29 stake
10 16 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 4 27 1 28 36 8
12 14 26 1 27 36 17
13 19 25 1 26 36 27
14 4 r 1 25 0 2
15 4 r 2 50 0 -48
16 11 24 3 75 108 -15
17 10 23 2 48 72 9
18 25 22 1 23 36 22
19 33 21 1 22 36 36
20 23 20 1 21 36 51
21 19
22 21
23 10
24 28
25 6
26 28
27 25
28 18
29 32
30 15
31 19
32 25
33 7
34 12
35 33
36 13
37 5
38 34
39 18
40 13
41 31
42 0
43 26
44 2
45 36
46 30
47 24
48 3
49 32
50 11
51 33
52 27
53 27
54 27
55 7
56 13
57 15
58 29
59 13
60 12
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 2 36
2 11 35
3 35 34
4 29 33
5 24 32 J247 07.01.16
6 23 31
7 36 30
8 32 29
9 11 r stake
10 29 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 9 28 1 29 36 7
12 29 r 1 28 0 -21
13 5 27 2 56 72 -5
14 19 26 1 27 36 4
15 3 25 1 26 36 14
16 17 24 1 25 36 25
17 26 23 1 24 36 37
18 8 22 1 23 36 50
19 4
20 15
21 29
22 26
23 6
24 29
25 5
26 13
27 11
28 22
29 34
30 16
31 25
32 33
33 33
34 32
35 3
36 16
37 24
38 4
39 19
40 22
41 0
42 27
43 29
44 12
45 34
46 13
47 9
48 27
49 6
50 21
51 28
52 18
53 32
54 30
55 18
56 27
57 1
58 20
59 30
60 15
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:28 AM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 27 36
2 4 35
3 11 34
4 14 33
5 28 32 J247 08.01.16
6 29 31
7 35 30
8 13 29
9 19 28 stake
10 0 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 24 26 1 27 36 9
12 15 25 1 26 36 19
13 12 24 1 25 36 30
14 17 23 1 24 36 42
15 15 r 1 23 0 19
16 20 22 2 46 72 45
17 33 21 1 22 36 59
18 2
19 29
20 13
21 4
22 4
23 36
24 27
25 31
26 5
27 19
28 13
29 22
30 25
31 7
32 6
33 25
34 14
35 14
36 14
37 14
38 5
39 18
40 32
41 0
42 12
43 18
44 36
45 8
46 13
47 20
48 4
49 4
50 26
51 1
52 4
53 36
54 26
55
56
57
58
59
60
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 25 36
2 24 35
3 1 34
4 25 r
5 7 33 J247 09.01.16
6 21 32
7 28 31
8 2 30
9 1 r stake
10 10 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 30 28 1 29 36 7
12 35 27 1 28 36 15
13 23 26 1 27 36 24
14 8 25 1 26 36 34
15 26 24 1 25 36 45
16 9 23 1 24 36 57
17 24
18 25
19 26
20 7
21 34
22 30
23 1
24 27
25 7
26 35
27 34
28 30
29 23
30 7
31 6
32 19
33 0
34 7
35 14
36 36
37 6
38 21
39 0
40 25
41 22
42 22
43 11
44 11
45 15
46 6
47 10
48 36
49 1
50 1
51 19
52 0
53 1
54 35
55 27
56
57
58
59
60
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:29 AM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)	
0 37
1 29 36
2 12 35
3 31 34
4 24 33
5 11 32 J247 10.01.16
6 4 31
7 10 30
8 14 29
9 8 28 stake
10 7 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 23 26 1 27 36 9
12 27 25 1 26 36 19
13 33 24 1 25 36 30
14 23 r 1 24 0 6
15 3 23 2 48 72 30
16 29 r 1 23 0 7
17 36 22 2 46 72 33
18 26 21 1 22 36 47
19 8 r 1 21 0 26
20 10 r 2 42 0 -16
21 26 r 3 63 0 -79
22 10 r 4 84 0 -163
23 26 r 5 105 0 -268
24 23 r 6 126 0 -394
25 11 r 7 147 0 -541 DD
26 2 20 8 168 288 -421
27 16 19 7 140 252 -309
28 0 18 6 115 216 -208
29 12 r 5 90 0 -298
30 8 r 6 108 0 -406
31 16 r 7 126 0 -532
32 5 17 8 144 288 -388
33 4 r 7 119 0 -507
34 20 16 8 135 288 -354
35 17 15 7 112 252 -214
36 25 14 6 90 216 -88
37 5 r 5 70 0 -158
38 4 r 6 84 0 -242
39 34 13 7 98 252 -88
40 15 12 6 78 216 50
41 29
42 34
43 9
44 14
45 8
46 10
47 6
48 0
49 18
50 16
51 22
52 3
53 30
54 20
55
56
57
58
59
60
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 19 36
2 15 35
3 7 34
4 19 r
5 17 33 J247 11.01.16
6 31 32
7 12 31
8 0 30
9 13 29 stake
10 32 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 18 27 1 28 36 8
12 27 26 1 27 36 17
13 25 25 1 26 36 27
14 18 r 1 25 0 2
15 33 24 2 50 72 24
16 22 23 1 24 36 36
17 35 22 1 23 36 49
18 24 21 1 22 36 63
19 2
20 17
21 4
22 17
23 4
24 1
25 33
26 12
27 35
28 28
29 28
30 5
31 24
32 24
33 14
34 2
35 27
36 36
37 34
38 5
39 24
40 29
41 21
42 7
43 16
44 32
45 36
46 35
47 10
48 19
49 36
50 16
51 14
52 2
53 27
54 25
55 4
56 21
57 20
58 8
59 22
60 25
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:30 AM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 25 36
2 19 35
3 1 34
4 34 33
5 6 32 J247 12.01.16
6 10 31
7 30 30
8 23 29
9 14 28 stake
10 34 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 0 27 1 28 36 8
12 16 26 1 27 36 17
13 11 25 1 26 36 27
14 34 r 1 25 0 2
15 22 24 2 50 72 24
16 30 r 1 24 0 0
17 21 23 2 48 72 24
18 29 22 1 23 36 37
19 9 21 1 22 36 51
20 7
21 16
22 33
23 22
24 21
25 8
26 28
27 7
28 30
29 30
30 18
31 3
32 34
33 10
34 28
35 18
36 17
37 17
38 24
39 32
40 9
41 32
42 0
43 19
44 13
45 19
46 26
47 4
48 1
49 31
50 31
51 36
52 34
53 28
54 18
55 23
56 14
57 19
58 24
59 18
60 31
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 16 36
2 35 35
3 8 34
4 13 33
5 18 32 J247 13.01.16
6 2 31
7 10 30
8 34 29
9 0 28 stake
10 10 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 14 27 1 28 36 8
12 9 26 1 27 36 17
13 19 25 1 26 36 27
14 20 24 1 25 36 38
15 33 23 1 24 36 50
16 1 22 1
17 13
18 20
19 26
20 8
21 25
22 9
23 10
24 4
25 9
26 12
27 5
28 36
29 32
30 1
31 9
32 21
33 36
34 13
35 24
36 34
37 3
38 26
39 25
40 14
41 35
42 33
43 23
44 17
45 32
46 16
47 36
48 34
49 7
50 36
51 1
52 31
53 3
54 30
55 3
56 29
57 3
58 21
59 8
60 28
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:31 AM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 31 36
2 0 35
3 17 34
4 6 33
5 17 r J247 14.01.16
6 33 32
7 14 31
8 0 r
9 4 30 stake
10 23 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 11 28 1 29 36 7
12 29 27 1 28 36 15
13 11 r 1 27 0 -12
14 21 26 2 54 72 6
15 10 25 1 26 36 16
16 11 r 1 25 0 -9
17 21 r 2 50 0 -59
18 36 24 3 75 108 -26
19 20 23 2 48 72 -2
20 5 22 1 23 36 11
21 33 r 1 22 0 -11
22 13 21 2 44 72 17
23 7 20 1 21 36 32
24 6 r 1 20 0 12
25 25 19 2 40 72 44
26 17 r 1 19 0 25
27 35 18 2 38 72 59
28 35
29 30
30 0
31 22
32 0
33 28
34 11
35 32
36 11
37 23
38 25
39 29
40 30
41 25
42 35
43 12
44 18
45 22
46 24
47 27
48 34
49 24
50 34
51 21
52 34
53 2
54 4
55 6
56 30
57 23
58 11
59 21
60 34
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 7 36
2 31 35
3 23 34
4 22 33
5 21 32 J247 15.01.16
6 21 r
7 1 31
8 4 30
9 0 29 stake
10 1 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 13 28 1 29 36 7
12 2 27 1 28 36 15
13 26 26 1 27 36 24
14 19 25 1 26 36 34
15 16 24 1 25 36 45
16 22 r 1 24 0 21
17 7 r 2 48 0 -27
18 32 23 3 72 108 9
19 13 r 2 46 0 -37
20 3 22 3 69 108 2
21 5 21 2 44 72 30
22 11 20 1 21 36 45
23 25 19 1 20 36 61
24 8
25 25
26 19
27 2
28 31
29 18
30 23
31 22
32 27
33 31
34 26
35 0
36 34
37 5
38 1
39 36
40 6
41 31
42 15
43 30
44 1
45 32
46 29
47 34
48 2
49 16
50 12
51 4
52 8
53 14
54 36
55 0
56 23
57 34
58 34
59 27
60 30
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:33 AM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 11 36
2 31 35
3 29 34
4 2 33
5 19 32 J247 16.01.16
6 30 31
7 16 30
8 15 29
9 23 28 stake
10 29 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 13 27 1 28 36 8
12 24 26 1 27 36 17
13 28 25 1 26 36 27
14 11 r 1 25 0 2
15 16 r 2 50 0 -48
16 8 24 3 75 108 -15
17 1 23 2 48 72 9
18 17 22 1 23 36 22
19 25 21 1 22 36 36
20 25 r 1 21 0 15
21 36 20 2 42 72 45
22 31 r 1 20 0 25
23 31 r 2 40 0 -15
24 5 19 3 60 108 33
25 10 18 2 38 72 67
26 32
27 23
28 6
29 12
30 16
31 22
32 6
33 31
34 29
35 29
36 5
37 19
38 24
39 35
40 19
41 30
42 31
43 4
44 29
45 5
46 10
47 14
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 31 36
2 21 35
3 21 r
4 29 34
5 22 33 J247 17.01.16
6 34 32
7 6 31
8 3 30
9 0 29 stake
10 10 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 23 27 1 28 36 8
12 36 26 1 27 36 17
13 7 25 1 26 36 27
14 1 24 1 25 36 38
15 14 23 1 24 36 50
16 4
17 0
18 11
19 1
20 25
21 10
22 16
23 26
24 24
25 17
26 20
27 0
28 18
29 22
30 14
31 6
32 29
33 17
34 22
35 13
36 16
37 8
38 16
39 8
40 5
41 6
42 27
43 36
44 4
45 12
46 8
47 10
48 23
49 9
50 12
51 17
52 32
53 8
54 13
55 29
56 22
57 24
58 34
59 9
60 20
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:34 AM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 18 36
2 24 35
3 3 34
4 16 33
5 35 32 J247 18.01.16
6 36 31
7 20 30
8 18 r
9 17 29 stake
10 36 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 28 28 1 29 36 7
12 30 27 1 28 36 15
13 31 26 1 27 36 24
14 1 25 1 26 36 34
15 7 24 1 25 36 45
16 23 23 1 24 36 57
17 14
18 27
19 4
20 3
21 28
22 34
23 36
24 26
25 14
26 23
27 26
28 27
29 27
30 23
31 19
32 15
33 11
34 36
35 1
36 26
37 18
38 20
39 27
40 34
41 35
42 6
43 15
44 17
45 10
46 14
47 31
48 18
49 3
50 5
51 35
52 16
53 26
54 22
55 21
56 19
57 27
58 18
59 5
60 7
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)	
0 37
1 15 36
2 9 35
3 20 34
4 32 33
5 16 32 J247 19.01.16
6 29 31
7 24 30
8 28 29
9 20 r stake
10 5 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 6 27 1 28 36 8
12 18 26 1 27 36 17
13 23 25 1 26 36 27
14 27 24 1 25 36 38
15 24 r 1 24 0 14
16 32 r 2 48 0 -34
17 7 23 3 72 108 2
18 1 22 2 46 72 28
19 6 r 1 22 0 6
20 15 r 2 44 0 -38
21 5 r 3 66 0 -104 DD
22 12 21 4 88 144 -48
23 30 20 3 63 108 -3
24 30 r 2 40 0 -43
25 4 19 3 60 108 5
26 10 18 2 38 72 39
27 11 17 1 18 36 57
28 4
29 17
30 5
31 9
32 4
33 2
34 36
35 27
36 27
37 7
38 34
39 25
40 22
41 23
42 18
43 25
44 9
45 30
46 24
47 27
48 0
49 14
50 15
51 23
52 32
53 19
54 35
55 6
56 35
57 2
58 25
59 14
60 18
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:36 AM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)	
0 37
1 25 36
2 25 r
3 16 35
4 1 34
5 26 33 J247 20.01.16
6 16 r
7 31 32
8 5 31
9 8 30 stake
10 14 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 34 28 1 29 36 7
12 13 27 1 28 36 15
13 33 26 1 27 36 24
14 36 25 1 26 36 34
15 33 r 1 25 0 9
16 2 24 2 50 72 31
17 3 23 1 24 36 43
18 2 r 1 23 0 20
19 9 22 2 46 72 46
20 14 r 1 22 0 24
21 36 r 2 44 0 -20
22 2 r 3 66 0 -86
23 23 21 4 88 144 -30
24 31 r 3 63 0 -93
25 32 20 4 84 144 -33
26 16 r 3 60 0 -93
27 1 r 4 80 0 -173
28 25 r 5 100 0 -273
29 8 r 6 120 0 -393 DD
30 29 19 7 140 252 -281
31 12 18 6 114 216 -179
32 7 17 5 90 180 -89
33 17 16 4 68 144 -13
34 17 r 3 48 0 -61
35 21 15 4 64 144 19
36 8 r 3 45 0 -26
37 31 r 4 60 0 -86
38 25 r 5 75 0 -161
39 15 14 6 90 216 -35
40 4 13 5 70 180 75
41 0
42 22
43 27
44 13
45 1
46 35
47 19
48 29
49 7
50 29
51 0
52 3
53 14
54 6
55 22
56 29
57 16
58 27
59 33
60 31
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 36 36
2 15 35
3 14 34
4 19 33
5 22 32 J247 21.01.16
6 34 31
7 3 30
8 3 r
9 31 29 stake
10 22 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 25 28 1 29 36 7
12 5 27 1 28 36 15
13 21 26 1 27 36 24
14 13 25 1 26 36 34
15 17 24 1 25 36 45
16 4 23 1 24 36 57
17 20
18 24
19 25
20 23
21 34
22 34
23 20
24 29
25 29
26 12
27 12
28 23
29 35
30 4
31 34
32 11
33 4
34 18
35 26
36 32
37 2
38 30
39 19
40 15
41 0
42 28
43 1
44 30
45 0
46 27
47 15
48 11
49 36
50 7
51 24
52 33
53 17
54 12
55 13
56 30
57 22
58 14
59 5
60 10
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:36 AM 2016
Hope you can work a stop/loss point RG
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 08, 09:45 AM 2016
Hope you can work a stop/loss point RG

Thanks. Will read this evening
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on Apr 08, 10:37 AM 2016

For Priyanka, after this day,with the tweeks members have suggested it has won.
Long may it continue!!! :thumbsup: there's tremendous amount of work that has gone into it from your end and you have openly put out for people to see. That takes a lot of guts to do that ( some people may disagree) but I salute you for that.  We may disagree on the actual method, but for the record am a fan of GUT and any offshoots that come out of it as it is closely related to repeaters. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 02:18 PM 2016
Daily record of wins updated to 22.01.16
Code: [Select]
Date 	      win	   lose 	total
22.12.15 62
23.12.15 56
24.12.15 93
27.12.15 57
28.12.15 69
29.12.15 59
30.12.15 50
31.12.15 50
02.01.16 68
03.01.16 65
04.01.16 57
05.01.16 59
06.01.16 51
07.01.16 50
08.01.16 59
09.01.16 57
10.01.16 50
11.01.16 63
12.01.16 51
13.01.16 50
14.01.16 59
15.01.16 61
16.01.16 67
17.01.16 50
18.01.16 57
19.01.16 57
20.01.16 75
21.01.16 57 1659
22.01.16 629
23.01.16 52
24.01.16 50
25.01.16 38
26.01.16 50
27.01.16 38
28.01.16 57
29.01.16 48
30.01.16 54
31.01.16 56
01.02.16 46
02.02.16 51
03.02.16 45
04.02.16 54
05.02.16 46
06.02.16 39
07.02.16 45
08.02.16 42
09.02.16 44
10.02.16 53
11.02.16 34
12.02.16 38
13.02.16 47
14.02.16 45
15.02.16 50
16.02.16 59
17.02.16 45
18.02.16 56
19.02.16 29
20.02.16 59
21.02.16 45
22.02.16 66
23.02.16 38
24.02.16 51
25.02.16 53
26.02.16 57
27.02.16 50
28.02.16 53
29.02.16 44
01.03.16 52
02.03.16 53
03.03.16 63
04.03.16 45
05.03.16 50
06.03.16 51
07.03.16 41
08.03.16 49
09.03.16 45
10.03.16 47
11.03.16 53
12.03.16 79
13.03.16 66
14.03.16 46
15.03.16 42
16.03.16 43
17.03.16 41
18.03.16 40
19.03.16 50
20.03.16 53
21.03.16 41
22.03.16 42
23.03.16 50
24.03.16 47
25.03.16 75
26.03.16 50
27.03.16 43
28.03.16 47
29.03.16 48
30.03.16 79
31.03.16 59
02.04.16 51
03.04.04 49
04.04.16 49
05.04.16 44
06.04.16 77







          5346   629 4717
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 08, 02:19 PM 2016
Daily record of wins updated to 22.01.16
Code: [Select]
Date 	      win	   lose 	total
22.12.15 62
23.12.15 56
24.12.15 93
27.12.15 57
28.12.15 69
29.12.15 59
30.12.15 50
31.12.15 50
02.01.16 68
03.01.16 65
04.01.16 57
05.01.16 59
06.01.16 51
07.01.16 50
08.01.16 59
09.01.16 57
10.01.16 50
11.01.16 63
12.01.16 51
13.01.16 50
14.01.16 59
15.01.16 61
16.01.16 67
17.01.16 50
18.01.16 57
19.01.16 57
20.01.16 75
21.01.16 57 1659
22.01.16 629
23.01.16 52
24.01.16 50
25.01.16 38
26.01.16 50
27.01.16 38
28.01.16 57
29.01.16 48
30.01.16 54
31.01.16 56
01.02.16 46
02.02.16 51
03.02.16 45
04.02.16 54
05.02.16 46
06.02.16 39
07.02.16 45
08.02.16 42
09.02.16 44
10.02.16 53
11.02.16 34
12.02.16 38
13.02.16 47
14.02.16 45
15.02.16 50
16.02.16 59
17.02.16 45
18.02.16 56
19.02.16 29
20.02.16 59
21.02.16 45
22.02.16 66
23.02.16 38
24.02.16 51
25.02.16 53
26.02.16 57
27.02.16 50
28.02.16 53
29.02.16 44
01.03.16 52
02.03.16 53
03.03.16 63
04.03.16 45
05.03.16 50
06.03.16 51
07.03.16 41
08.03.16 49
09.03.16 45
10.03.16 47
11.03.16 53
12.03.16 79
13.03.16 66
14.03.16 46
15.03.16 42
16.03.16 43
17.03.16 41
18.03.16 40
19.03.16 50
20.03.16 53
21.03.16 41
22.03.16 42
23.03.16 50
24.03.16 47
25.03.16 75
26.03.16 50
27.03.16 43
28.03.16 47
29.03.16 48
30.03.16 79
31.03.16 59
02.04.16 51
03.04.04 49
04.04.16 49
05.04.16 44
06.04.16 77







          5346   629 4717

Serious. I mean this. Great effort by you. Uploading all this. Good man.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 09, 06:20 AM 2016
Priyanka
although we say win 50/60 would you not stop, you'd really play on for the 1 unit
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 25 36
2 14 35
3 3 34
4 36 33
5 15 32 J247 9.4.16
6 33 31
7 9 30
8 30 29
9 8 28 stake
10 33 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 28 27 1 28 36 8
12 5 26 1 27 36 17
13 1 25 1 26 36 27
14 28 r 1 25 0 2
15 35 24 2 50 72 24
16 22 23 1 24 36 36
17 32 22 1 23 36 49
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 09, 06:31 AM 2016
For the real compulsive gamblers Jackpot247.com 09.04.16  KTF +60
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 25 36
2 14 35
3 3 34
4 36 33
5 15 32 J247 9.4.16
6 33 31
7 9 30
8 30 29
9 8 28 stake
10 33 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 28 27 1 28 36 8
12 5 26 1 27 36 17
13 1 25 1 26 36 27
14 28 r 1 25 0 2
15 35 24 2 50 72 24
16 22 23 1 24 36 36
17 32 22 1 23 36 49
18 15 r 1 22 0 27
19 3 r 2 44 0 -17
20 28 r 3 66 0 -83
21 34 21 4 88 144 -27
22 31 20 3 63 108 18
23 34 r 2 40 0 -22
24 21 19 3 60 108 26
25 17 18 2 38 72 60
26 30
27 4
28 25
29 16
30 13
31 20
32 32
33 9
34 31
35 10
36 25
37 16
38 0
39 19
40 13
41 17
42 33
43 11
44 13
45 0
46 36
47 3
48 5
49 32
50 32 X
51 17
52 14
53 33
54 8
55 21
56 2
57 9
58 0
59 1
60 1 X



X marks the doubles that dont happen ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 11, 09:23 AM 2016
Hi RG and anyone else, since its now play for 50/+50 after Priyanka, i've up dated to 11.02.16
The 22/01/16 DD highest is -1611, ends -629, which we know was a losing game.
Apart from that,the 03/01/16 has DD of -628, ends +65, more to do, but the profit is getting bigger through going for 50/+50.
Code: [Select]
Date 	win	lose 	total
22.12.15 62
23.12.15 56
24.12.15 93
27.12.15 57
28.12.15 69
29.12.15 59
30.12.15 50
31.12.15 50
02.01.16 68
03.01.16 65
04.01.16 57
05.01.16 59
06.01.16 51
07.01.16 50
08.01.16 59
09.01.16 57
10.01.16 50
11.01.16 63
12.01.16 51
13.01.16 50
14.01.16 59
15.01.16 61
16.01.16 67
17.01.16 50
18.01.16 57
19.01.16 57
20.01.16 75
21.01.16 57 1659
22.01.16 629
23.01.16 52
24.01.16 50
25.01.16 65
26.01.16 50
27.01.16 57
28.01.16 57
29.01.16 60
30.01.16 54
31.01.16 56
01.02.16 55
02.02.16 51
03.02.16 59
04.02.16 54
05.02.16 63
06.02.16 238
07.02.16 57
08.02.16 55
09.02.16 62
10.02.16 53
11.02.16 57
12.02.16 38
13.02.16 47
14.02.16 45
15.02.16 50
16.02.16 59
17.02.16 45
18.02.16 56
19.02.16 29
20.02.16 59
21.02.16 45
22.02.16 66
23.02.16 38
24.02.16 51
25.02.16 53
26.02.16 57
27.02.16 50
28.02.16 53
29.02.16 44
01.03.16 52
02.03.16 53
03.03.16 63
04.03.16 45
05.03.16 50
06.03.16 51
07.03.16 41
08.03.16 49
09.03.16 45
10.03.16 47
11.03.16 53
12.03.16 79
13.03.16 66
14.03.16 46
15.03.16 42
16.03.16 43
17.03.16 41
18.03.16 40
19.03.16 50
20.03.16 53
21.03.16 41
22.03.16 42
23.03.16 50
24.03.16 47
25.03.16 75
26.03.16 50
27.03.16 43
28.03.16 47
29.03.16 48
30.03.16 79
31.03.16 59
02.04.16 51
03.04.04 49
04.04.16 49
05.04.16 44
06.04.16 77







5709 629 5080
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 13, 06:33 AM 2016
Nice RG
i was wondering if just picking a random 27 #'s would get good results playing for just non-hit.

Your 27#'s today +55, in 7 spins.

KTF +110 because of Priyanka and yourself. The play for 50/+50 with a BR of 800.
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 11 36
2 9 35
3 29 34
4 28 33
5 5 32 J247 13.04.16
6 17 31
7 12 30
8 7 29
9 32 28 stake
10 20 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 20 r 1 27 0 -27
12 10 26 2 54 72 -9
13 22 25 1 26 36 1
14 9 r 1 25 0 -24
15 17 r 2 50 0 -74
16 4 24 3 75 108 -41
17 0 23 2 48 72 -17
18 21 22 1 23 36 -4
19 9 r 1 22 0 -26
20 13 21 2 44 72 2
21 4 r 1 21 0 -19
22 22 r 2 42 0 -61
23 36 20 3 63 108 -16
24 4 r 2 40 0 -56
25 18 19 3 60 108 -8
26 7 r 2 38 0 -46
27 14 18 3 57 108 5
28 34 17 2 36 72 41
29 18 r 1 17 0 24
30 0 r 2 34 0 -10
31 6 16 3 51 108 47
32 9 r 2 32 0 15
33 18 r 3 48 0 -33
34 33 15 4 64 144 47
35 30 14 3 45 108 110
36 21 r
37 24 13
38 11 r
39 23 12
40 36
41 31
42 17
43 21
44 14
45 32
46 2
47 29
48 33
49 26
50 25
51 4
52 8
53 17
54 0
55 1
56 29
57 5
58 12
59 35
60 15

61 2
62 7
63 27
64 22
65 19
66 9
67 5
68 4
69 30
70 4
71 8
72 2
73 35
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 3 36
2 7 35
3 11 34
4 13 33
5 18 32 J247 RG's 10#
6 22 31
7 23 30
8 27 29
9 31 28 stake
10 35 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 20 26 1 27 36 9
12 10 25 1 26 36 19
13 22 r 1 25 0 -6
14 9 24 2 50 72 16
15 17 23 1 24 36 28
16 4 22 1 23 36 41
17 0 21 1 22 36 55
18 21
19 9
20 13
21 4
22 22
23 36
24 4
25 18
26 7
27 14
28 34
29 18
30 0
31 6
32 9
33 18
34 33
35 30
36 21
37 24
38 11
39 23
40 36
41 31
42 17
43 21
44 14
45 32
46 2
47 29
48 33
49 26
50 25
51 4
52 8
53 17
54 0
55 1
56 29
57 5
58 12
59 35
60 15

61 2
62 7
63 27
64 22
65 19
66 9
67 5
68 4
69 30
70 4
71 8
72 2
73 35

RG another set of 10 for tomorrows game
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 13, 06:45 AM 2016
I see what you did there

Thats cool

Picking 10 numbers random then betting the unhits might be just as effective
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 13, 07:27 AM 2016
I see what you did there

Thats cool

Picking 10 numbers random then betting the unhits might be just as effective

so 8/9 or 10#'s  for tomorrows game
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 13, 07:30 AM 2016
so 8/9 or 10#'s  for tomorrows game

1, 3, 8, 9, 21, 22, 24, 27, 31, 32
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 13, 08:23 AM 2016
Sheet for tomorrow 14.4.16
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 13, 08:55 AM 2016
1, 3, 8, 9, 21, 22, 24, 27, 31, 32

-RG

Where are these numbers coming from?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 13, 09:00 AM 2016
-RG

Where are these numbers coming from?

-Celtic
Ok

When I play recreationally these are the numbers I play in Atlantic City

They often miss many spins

So i said to myself "maybe good for kff"

LOL
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Apr 13, 09:09 AM 2016
Great work again, Hammer!
New horizons...

Thank you
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 13, 09:14 AM 2016
-RG

Where are these numbers coming from?

-Celtic

Thank you for the reply.

-Celtid
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 13, 09:16 AM 2016
-Notto

Do you have any issues with me using the Jackpot 247 numbers in the WTF thread?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 13, 09:29 AM 2016
-Notto

Do you have any issues with me using the Jackpot 247 numbers in the WTF thread?

-Celtic

You are so serious it makes me tense sometimes lol
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 13, 10:16 AM 2016
You are so serious it makes me tense sometimes lol

When it comes to money you are correct I am dead serius.
I just do not like ruffling feathers.

I have a question for you.

On your airball machine(s) if you are betting 20 numbers and wish to rebet the same numbers again less 1 is there any way you can remove the number you want to take off after hitting the rebet button or do you have to rebet the 19 from scratch.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 13, 10:27 AM 2016
When it comes to money you are correct I am dead serius.
I just do not like ruffling feathers.

I have a question for you.

On your airball machine(s) if you are betting 20 numbers and wish to rebet the same numbers again less 1 is there any way you can remove the number you want to take off after hitting the rebet button or do you have to rebet the 19 from scratch.

-Celtic

Ya know, im not 100 percent on that

I'll report back this weekend

Lets say you have 2 units per # . Then next spin you want to rebet the #s but drop down one unit. I think you can just drag one chip off each #

Will confirm Saturday
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on Apr 13, 01:17 PM 2016
Nice RG
i was wondering if just picking a random 27 #'s would get good results playing for just non-hit.
Your 27#'s today +55, in 7 spins.
Notto - Am glad that you are doing this simulation. By the end of this simulation, I seriously think, you will be able to go to a table with 10 numbers in mind and start playing from word go with a set of 27 numbers and slowly remove them one by one as hits come along. But I will let you figure that out using simulation as there is no proof available for this. This is essentially selecting numbers before you play and playing on the future and not based on past spins as some would want to put it. Good luck :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tomla021 on Apr 13, 01:24 PM 2016
pryanka I dont understang going in with 10 pre conceived numbers but playing 27 numbers?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 13, 01:33 PM 2016
Notto - Am glad that you are doing this simulation. By the end of this simulation, I seriously think, you will be able to go to a table with 10 numbers in mind and start playing from word go with a set of 27 numbers and slowly remove them one by one as hits come along. But I will let you figure that out using simulation as there is no proof available for this. This is essentially selecting numbers before you play and playing on the future and not based on past spins as some would want to put it. Good luck :thumbsup:

I agree

Pick a random 10 numbers. Bet the other 27 with the same ktf rules and you should have good results as you have had with ktf. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tomla021 on Apr 13, 02:08 PM 2016
ok i will test a bit that way  should be similiar results
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 14, 05:28 AM 2016
Good results for both,RGs Random 27#'s and KTF's played for 27 #'s.
KTF today made the 50 units quicker, by one spin.
 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Apr 14, 05:40 AM 2016
Congratulation KTF for 1.000 posts!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 14, 12:06 PM 2016
I agree

Pick a random 10 numbers. Bet the other 27 with the same ktf rules and you should have good results as you have had with ktf.
RG  another 10#'s or i could use the last 10 #'s from the game as it will be 24 hrs later
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 14, 12:07 PM 2016
RG  another 10#'s or i could use the last 10 #'s from the game as it will be 24 hrs later

Use same. Those are my numbers i bet recreationally lol
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 14, 01:09 PM 2016
Okay Rg theres yours from 13/4/16, last 10#'s from spins 51-60,todays numbers.
Grid ready for tomorrow.

Tomola have you tested any random 27#'s
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 15, 12:56 PM 2016
3 ways of betting 27 #'s from todays J247.com #'s, all win  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 15, 01:12 PM 2016
My #s. Lol

Just play ktf using those....winna
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 04:50 PM 2016
Funny when playing KTF i can hear keep the faith, when on the forum lately i've been hearing the chemical brothers out of control,funny thing is its only when the Generals on barking on about good members methods and strategies  :twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:36 PM 2016
Thought i'd keep them in order, know the 22.1.16 already posted
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)	
0 37
1 33 36
2 33 r
3 25 35
4 3 34
5 23 33 J247 22.01.16
6 1 32
7 14 31
8 22 30
9 2 29 stake
10 23 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 34 28 1 29 36 7
12 31 27 1 28 36 15
13 1 r 1 27 0 -12
14 1 r 2 54 0 -66
15 7 26 3 81 108 -39
16 2 r 2 52 0 -91
17 16 25 3 78 108 -61
18 22 r 2 50 0 -111
19 5 24 3 75 108 -78
20 5 r 2 48 0 -126
21 16 r 3 72 0 -198
22 22 r 4 96 0 -294
23 19 23 5 120 180 -234
24 20 22 4 92 144 -182
25 7 r 3 66 0 -248
26 30 21 4 88 144 -192
27 34 r 3 63 0 -255
28 20 r 4 84 0 -339
29 22 r 5 105 0 -444
30 33 r 6 126 0 -570
31 12 20 7 147 252 -465
32 36 19 6 120 216 -369
33 27 18 5 95 180 -284
34 14 r 4 72 0 -356
35 4 17 5 90 180 -266
36 4 r 4 68 0 -334
37 24 16 5 85 180 -239
38 1 r 4 64 0 -303
39 11 15 5 80 180 -203
40 35 14 4 60 144 -119
41 14 r 3 42 0 -161
42 26 13 4 56 144 -73
43 11 r 3 39 0 -112
44 30 r 4 52 0 -164
45 24 r 5 65 0 -229
46 5 r 6 78 0 -307
47 1 r 7 91 0 -398
48 0 12 8 104 288 -214
49 33 r 7 84 0 -298
50 13 13 8 96 288 -106
51 3 r 7 91 0 -197
52 30 r 8 104 0 -301
53 30 r 9 117 0 -418
54 4 r 10 130 0 -548
55 16 r 11 143 0 -691
56 24 r 12 156 0 -847
57 4 r 13 169 0 -1016
58 26 r 14 182 0 -1198
59 29 10 15 195 540 -853
60 27 r 14 140 0 -993
0 -993
61 8 9 15 150 540 -603
62 2 r 14 126 0 -729
63 36 r 15 135 0 -864
64 33 r 16 144 0 -1008
65 2 r 17 153 0 -1161
66 26 r 18 162 0 -1323
67 31 r 19 171 0 -1494
68 33 r 20 180 0 -1674
69 29 8 21 189 756 -1107
70 36 r 20 160 0 -1267
71 22 r 21 168 0 -1435
72 29 r 22 176 0 -1611 DD
73 18 7 23 184 828 -967
74 32 6 22 154 792 -329
75 16 r 21 126 0 -455
76 2 r 22 132 0 -587
77 33 r 23 138 0 -725
78 29 r 24 144 0 -869
79 32 r 25 150 0 -1019
80 15 5 26 156 936 -239
81 12 r 25 125 0 -364
82 2 r 26 130 0 -494
83 26 r 27 135 0 -629
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 18 36
2 25 35
3 16 34
4 15 33
5 5 32 J247 23.01.16
6 30 31
7 31 30
8 21 29
9 5 r stake
10 3 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 24 27 1 28 36 8
12 17 26 1 27 36 17
13 12 25 1 26 36 27
14 10 24 1 25 36 38
15 3 r 1 24 0 14
16 23 23 2 48 72 38
17 16 r 1 23 0 15
18 24 r 2 46 0 -31
19 13 22 3 69 108 8
20 30 r 2 44 0 -36
21 26 21 3 66 108 6
22 2 20 2 42 72 36
23 11 19 1 20 36 52
24 10
25 24
26 26
27 0
28 5
29 29
30 29
31 6
32 7
33 18
34 3
35 11
36 2
37 34
38 22
39 6
40 29
41 2
42 11
43 27
44 29
45 33
46 13
47 21
48 1
49 18
50 34
51 12
52 1
53 10
54 4
55 16
56 24
57 4
58 26
59 29
60 27
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:38 PM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 29 36
2 17 35
3 10 34
4 21 33
5 26 32 J247 24.01.16
6 17 r
7 2 31
8 14 30
9 3 29 stake
10 25 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 31 27 1 28 36 8
12 11 26 1 27 36 17
13 35 25 1 26 36 27
14 6 24 1 25 36 38
15 1 23 1 24 36 50
16 14
17 11
18 28
19 24
20 36
21 0
22 12
23 27
24 12
25 6
26 30
27 3
28 13
29 17
30 4
31 26
32 32
33 12
34 9
35 24
36 30
37 23
38 14
39 11
40 23
41 6
42 6
43 21
44 0
45 15
46 5
47 35
48 4
49 36
50 32
51 7
52 11
53 2
54 25
55 0
56 29
57 17
58 20
59 25
60 16

61 27
62 16
63 11
64 13
65 22
66 27
67 9
68 14
69 9
70 3
71 20
72 31
73 0
74 32
75 16
76 2
77 33
78 29
79 32
80 15
81 12
82 2
83 26
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)	
0 37
1 26 36
2 23 35
3 2 34
4 35 33
5 8 32 J247 25.1.16
6 16 31
7 14 30
8 22 29
9 14 r stake
10 30 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 21 27 1 28 36 8
12 20 26 1 27 36 17
13 5 25 1 26 36 27
14 33 24 1 25 36 38
15 8 r 1 24 0 14
16 30 r 2 48 0 -34
17 6 23 3 72 108 2
18 2 r 2 46 0 -44
19 16 r 3 69 0 -113
20 8 r 4 92 0 -205 DD
21 27 22 5 115 180 -140
22 31 21 4 88 144 -84
23 9 20 3 63 108 -39
24 1 19 2 40 72 -7
25 2 r 1 19 0 -26
26 13 18 2 38 72 8
27 19 17 1 18 36 26
28 32 16 1 17 36 45
29 28 15 1 16 36 65
30 1
31 1
32 32
33 1
34 6
35 36
36 4
37 16
38 29
39 15
40 13
41 18
42 32
43 17
44 36
45 22
46 33
47 22
48 31
49 21
50 22
51 2
52 34
53 32
54 1
55 19
56 14
57 20
58 30
59 16
60 22

61 9
62 26
63 11
64 24
65 6
66 3
67 33
68 10
69 32
70 27
71 7
72 32
73 33
74 8
75 12
76 23
77 29
78 32
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:40 PM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 27 36
2 3 35
3 18 34
4 13 33
5 0 32 J247 26.1.16
6 23 31
7 10 30
8 9 29
9 31 28 stake
10 19 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 18 r 1 27 0 -27
12 22 26 2 54 72 -9
13 22 r 1 26 0 -35
14 35 25 2 52 72 -15
15 11 24 1 25 36 -4
16 1 23 1 24 36 8
17 6 22 1 23 36 21
18 16 21 1 22 36 35
19 29 20 1 21 36 50
20 14 19 1
21 33
22 10
23 21
24 4
25 0
26 19
27 10
28 3
29 23
30 35
31 28
32 21
33 5
34 28
35 27
36 27
37 12
38 10
39 16
40 34
41 24
42 19
43 23
44 4
45 35
46 5
47 25
48 19
49 24
50 36
51 4
52 26
53 27
54 7
55 31
56 0
57 20
58 19
59 11
60 21

61 3
62 26
63 12
64 33
65 7
66 27
67 10
68 24
69 20
70 20
71 12
72 26
73 33
74 8
75 12
76 23
77 29
78 32
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 31 36
2 9 35
3 24 34
4 12 33
5 27 32 J247 27.1.16
6 22 31
7 9 r
8 4 30
9 35 29 stake
10 36 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 17 27 1 28 36 8
12 3 26 1 27 36 17
13 30 25 1 26 36 27
14 6 24 1 25 36 38
15 35 r 1 24 0 14
16 17 r 2 48 0 -34
17 14 23 3 72 108 2
18 20 22 2 46 72 28
19 28 21 1 22 36 42
20 25 20 1 21 36 57
21 35
22 7
23 28
24 28
25 15
26 10
27 27
28 2
29 15
30 27
31 22
32 0
33 4
34 17
35 32
36 15
37 0
38 28
39 9
40 1
41 3
42 19
43 32
44 14
45 12
46 16
47 29
48 10
49 29
50 29
51 22
52 32
53 18
54 25
55 8
56 28
57 24
58 1
59 18
60 28

61 33
62 23
63 27
64 1
65 11
66 24
67 6
68 34
69 31
70 18
71 27
72 12
73 34
74 28
75 24
76 22
77 18
78 15
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:41 PM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 6 36
2 15 35
3 3 34
4 15 r
5 3 r J247 28.1.16
6 24 33
7 9 32
8 29 31
9 31 30 stake
10 17 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 9 r 1 29 0 -29
12 35 28 2 58 72 -15
13 33 27 1 28 36 -7
14 34 26 1 27 36 2
15 23 25 1 26 36 12
16 16 24 1 25 36 23
17 23 r 1 24 0 -1
18 1 23 2 48 72 23
19 3 r 1 23 0 0
20 18 22 2 46 72 26
21 31 r 1 22 0 4
22 19 21 2 44 72 32
23 23 r 1 21 0 11
24 32 20 2 42 72 41
25 22 19 1 20 36 57
26 30 18 1
27 22
28 26
29 35
30 14
31 11
32 33
33 14
34 17
35 32
36 36
37 16
38 18
39 25
40 12
41 21
42 22
43 34
44 35
45 24
46 17
47 4
48 0
49 8
50 6
51 4
52 7
53 10
54 17
55 3
56 24
57 3
58 5
59 34
60 34
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 9 36
2 24 35
3 35 34
4 22 33
5 26 32 J247 29.1.16
6 21 31
7 10 30
8 29 29
9 8 28 stake
10 31 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 29 r 1 27 0 -27
12 26 r 2 54 0 -81
13 1 26 3 81 108 -54
14 24 r 2 52 0 -106
15 17 25 3 78 108 -76
16 34 24 2 50 72 -54
17 32 23 1 24 36 -42
18 22 r 1 23 0 -65
19 36 22 2 46 72 -39
20 9 r 1 22 0 -61
21 25 21 2 44 72 -33
22 15 20 1 21 36 -18
23 33 19 1 20 36 -2
24 25 r 1 19 0 -21
25 1 r 2 38 0 -59
26 23 18 3 57 108 -8
27 22 r 2 36 0 -44
28 19 17 3 54 108 10
29 3 16 2 34 72 48
30 21 r 1 16 0 32
31 33 r 2 32 0 0
32 14 15 3 48 108 60
33 1
34 8
35 28
36 9
37 31
38 2
39 2
40 31
41 35
42 12
43 6
44 22
45 31
46 31
47 15
48 15
49 30
50 36
51 3
52 7
53 28
54 24
55 17
56 3
57 12
58 10
59 34
60 34

61 14
62 32
63 2
64 4
65 29
66 32
67 11
68 23
69 12
70 12
71 22
72 18
73 6
74 4
75 27
76 32
77 32
78 16
79 22
80 7
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:43 PM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 12 36
2 34 35
3 10 34
4 7 33
5 12 r J247 30.1.16
6 12 r
7 29 32
8 14 31
9 6 30 stake
10 21 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 24 28 1 29 36 7
12 27 27 1 28 36 15
13 10 r 1 27 0 -12
14 30 26 2 54 72 6
15 1 25 1 26 36 16
16 15 24 1 25 36 27
17 1 r 1 24 0 3
18 18 23 2 48 72 27
19 20 22 1 23 36 40
20 4 21 1 22 36 54
21 21
22 29
23 29
24 11
25 23
26 15
27 10
28 16
29 31
30 32
31 35
32 27
33 0
34 32
35 9
36 23
37 5
38 17
39 13
40 24
41 35
42 25
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 35 36
2 29 35
3 32 34
4 1 33
5 19 32 J247 31.1.16
6 18 31
7 3 30
8 11 29
9 17 28 stake
10 0 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 12 26 1 27 36 9
12 30 25 1 26 36 19
13 14 24 1 25 36 30
14 17 r 1 24 0 6
15 18 r 2 48 0 -42
16 26 23 3 72 108 -6
17 6 22 2 46 72 20
18 3 r 1 22 0 -2
19 19 r 2 44 0 -46
20 30 r 3 66 0 -112
21 27 21 4 88 144 -56
22 31 20 3 63 108 -11
23 13 19 2 40 72 21
24 4 18 1 19 36 38
25 29 r 1 18 0 20
26 15 17 2 36 72 56
27 0
28 35
29 33
30 6
31 22
32 3
33 32
34 31
35 25
36 31
37 4
38 28
39 32
40 33
41 34
42 16
43 35
44 27
45 9
46 27
47 6
48 23
49 5
50 14
51 3
52 3
53 13
54 26
55 3
56 17
57 9
58 28
59 34
60 25
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:44 PM 2016
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 22 36
2 3 35
3 12 34
4 18 33
5 33 32 J247 01.02.16
6 26 31
7 6 30
8 28 29
9 2 28 stake
10 16 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 27 26 1 27 36 9
12 26 r 1 26 0 -17
13 36 25 2 52 72 3
14 35 24 1 25 36 14
15 27 r 1 24 0 -10
16 34 23 2 48 72 14
17 2 r 1 23 0 -9
18 5 22 2 46 72 17
19 32 21 1 22 36 31
20 24 20 1 21 36 46
21 12 r 1 20 0 26
22 24 r 2 40 0 -14
23 32 r 3 60 0 -74
24 17 19 4 80 144 -10
25 28 r 3 57 0 -67
26 4 18 4 76 144 1
27 14 17 3 54 108 55
28 21 16 2
29 1 15 1
30 5
31 8
32 30
33 4
34 18
35 35
36 27
37 30
38 36
39 0
40 0
41 19
42 7
43 10
44 10
45 19
46 18
47 20
48 0
49 2
50 34
51 7
52 21
53 17
54 2
55 3
56 11
57 9
58 35
59 26
60 29

61 15
62 33
63 6
64 7
65 26
66 20
67 23
68 18
69 25
70 18
71 28
72 26
73 14
74 13
75 0
76 23
77 23
78 25
79 3
Code: [Select]
spin	#	non hit	prog	units	win	(+/-)
0 37
1 7 36
2 21 35
3 12 34
4 17 33
5 9 32 J247 02.02.16
6 5 31
7 33 30
8 36 29
9 8 28 stake
10 36 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 16 27 1 28 36 8
12 17 r 1 27 0 -19
13 23 26 2 54 72 -1
14 10 25 1 26 36 9
15 35 24 1 25 36 20
16 19 23 1 24 36 32
17 30 22 1 23 36 45
18 36 r 1 22 0 23
19 6 21 2 44 72 51
20 10
21 1
22 10
23 14
24 4
25 20
26 9
27 12
28 22
29 18
30 27
31 7
32 18
33 2
34 22
35 12
36 23
37 24
38 6
39 24
40 17
41 34
42 4
43 12
44 9
45 20
46 5
47 16
48 22
49 10
50 23
51 19
52 7
53 19
54 27
55 9
56 25
57 20
58 35
59 26
60 11

61 14
62 25
63 20
64 2