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Roulette-focused => Testing zone => Topic started by: nottophammer on Jan 30, 11:56 AM 2016

Title: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 30, 11:56 AM 2016
Thanks to celescliff, the numbers are easier to read.
This is Jackpot 24/7.com  29.1.16 

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 9 36
2 24 35
3 35 34
4 22 33
5 26 32
6 21 31
7 10 30
8 29 29
9 8 28
10 31 27
11 29 R 1 27 0 -27
12 26 R 2 54 0 -81
13 1 26 3 81 108 -54
14 24 R 2 52 0 -106
15 17 25 3 78 108 -76
16 34 24 2 50 72 -54
17 32 23 1 24 36 -42
18 22 R 1 23 0 -65
19 36 22 2 46 72 -39
20 9 R 1 22 0 -61
21 25 21 2 44 72 -33
22 15 20 1 21 36 -18
23 33 19 1 20 36 -2
24 25 R 1 19 0 -21
25 1 R 2 38 0 -59
26 23 18 3 57 108 -8
27 22 R 2 36 0 -44
28 19 17 3 54 108 10
29 3 16 2 34 72 48        So if you've followed the Jackpot joy topic you'll have seen you can hit £50/60, well here
30 21 R 1 16                     its +48.00, next bet is £16 if lose,then next bet is £32,if lose 32+16=48.00 profit zero
31 33                                             so stop. Take the win.
32 14
33 1
34 8
35 28
36 9
37 31
38 2
39 2
40 31
41 35
42 12
43 6
44 22
45 31
46 31
47 15
48 15
49 30
50 36
51 3
52 7
53 28
54 24
55 17
56 3
57 12
58 10
59
60


Is every one up to speed
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 30, 12:13 PM 2016
Jackpot 24/7.com   30.1.16

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 12 36
2 34 35
3 10 34
4 7 33
5 12 R
6 12 R
7 29 32
8 14 31
9 6 30
10 21 29
11 24 28 1 29 36 7
12 27 27 1 28 36 15
13 10 R 1 27 0 -12
14 30 26 2 54 72 6
15 1 25 1 26 36 16
16 15 24 1 25 36 27
17 1 R 1 24 0 3
18 18 23 2 48 72 27
19 20 22 1 23 36 40
20 4 21 1 22 36 54             Win +£54.00   stop, go to another table, or wait for all 37 numbers to have hit. Then
21 21                                  restart. Good luck.
22 29
23 29
24 11
25 23
26 15
27 10
28 16
29 31
30 32
31 35
32 27
33 0
34 32
35 9
36 23
37 5
38 17
39 13
40 24
41 35
42 25
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 30, 12:17 PM 2016
A sheet to record your spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: TwoCatSam on Jan 30, 01:02 PM 2016
notto

Where could a body find the system rules for KTF? 

Thanks!

Sam
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jan 30, 01:04 PM 2016
The way i interpret it is once you have 12 numbers that have not repeated bet those 12. With +1 on a loss

All nottos uploads look great. Always wins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Jan 30, 01:23 PM 2016
Wrong RG, this is other one.

After 10 spins you bet all unhit numbers with +1/-1 prog.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jan 30, 01:28 PM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Jan 30, 01:23 PM 2016
Wrong RG, this is other one.

After 10 spins you bet all unhit numbers with +1/-1 prog.

ok thanks for correcting me

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jan 30, 01:29 PM 2016
so do we continue to bet those 26 numbers until win goal is reached? or as they hit stop betting them
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Jan 30, 01:51 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Jan 30, 01:29 PM 2016
so do we continue to bet those 26 numbers until win goal is reached? or as they hit stop betting them

When you lose, you bet +1=2 on all unhit numbers, if lose again, then +1=3 units on all unhit numbers .
On hit, you take of winning number and -1 on all unhit numbers.

That is how I understand Notto, his word will be last.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 30, 02:32 PM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Jan 30, 01:23 PM 2016
Wrong RG, this is other one.

After 10 spins you bet all unhit numbers with +1/-1 prog.

Yes as simple as that. Well done nextyear. Good luck to all
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 30, 03:02 PM 2016
Some have followed Jackpot joy thread will know that it is not a HG, it seems possible to win 50/60 units in spins 11-20.
Now like Winkel says its your choice when to stop, so you will have seen some times i've taken +45 or even +38, as said its your decision.
It could be start to bet at spin 11 and just press on,if you have a good BR, the bets obviously start large, but the good thing is it gets cheaper as the non hit,hit.
Over time i've found +1/-1 to be the best way to stake.
The game i'll post soon has been sent to me so know idea where they come from, in JJ topic on the sheets you'll seen at the bottom of the 10 spins how the trot is going, like 4,-1 or 8,+3. This is to do with average,you can see this in Jackpot joy average doc posted in Jackpot joy thread.
Can't think of anythink else, if you need just ask.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 30, 03:31 PM 2016
Mr WG sent these.
What makes this hard to come back is betting at just over 1/3 it takes 5 spins to hit, this is not unknown to me, as i've seen it numerous times on the machine of death, I LOVE THAT RG.
These numbers play to the average of 15.67742 in spins 11-40, as we've only got 37 spins in total, 8/ non hit in spins 1-10, so the next 30 spins that would be the 40th spin you would expect to see 23 non hit to have hit, well you can see 16 have already hit by the 37th spin, so +1 on the average of 15 already.
I see this on friday on the machine of death in corals 29.1.16 its posted in RNG, i had 9 in 1st 10 spins, so i would expect to see at 40th spins 24 non hit,well the 24th non hit,hit in spins 21 to 30, 10 spins to early. So its not unknown to lose betting at 1/3 on.
Look at Ladbrokes same day on the same sheet 11th non hit, so 26 non hit left and took 5 spins to come in, but KTF still made £122, corals made £57,


spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 21 36
2 -3 35
3 32 34
4 -8 33
5 33 R
6 10 R
7 -8 32
8 -8 31
9 -4 30
10 25 29
11 33 R 1 29 0 -29
12 -8 R 2 58 0 -87
13 10 R 3 87 0 -174
14 32 R 4 116 0 -290
15 29 28 5 145 180 -255
16 -4 R 4 112 0 -367
17 32 R 5 140 0 -507
18 18 27 6 168 216 -459
19 19 26 5 135 180 -414
20 0 25 4 104 144 -374
21 23 24 3 75 108 -341
22 34 23 2 48 72 -317
23 14 22 1 23 36 -304
24 -3 R 1 22 0 -326
25 12 21 2 44 72 -298
26 10 R 1 21 0 -319
27 -1 20 2 42 72 -289
28 -4 R 1 20 0 -309
29 31 19 2 40 72 -277
30 24 18 1 19 36 -260
31 15 17 1 18 36 -242
32 -9 16 1 17 36 -223
33 29 R 1 16 0 -239
34 -6 15 2 32 72 -199
35 17 14 1 15 36 -178
36 14 R 1 14 0 -192
37 30 13 2 28 72 -148
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 30, 04:45 PM 2016
In Jackpot joy average the Game dated 28.12.15  gets 18 non hit in 30 spins +3, non hit in 60 spins is 31,60 divided by 2 is 30, so 1 more non hit than 30.
I would have stopped at spin 23,13th spin of betting, +£52.00.

Where would you stop.
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 30 36
2 24 35
3 19 34
4 12 33
5 13 32
6 30 R
7 29 31
8 26 30
9 1 29
10 11 28
11 26 R 1 28 0 -28
12 14 27 2 56 72 -12
13 13 R 1 27 0 -39
14 21 26 2 54 72 -21
15 5 25 1 26 36 -11
16 16 24 1 25 36 0
17 11 R 1 24 0 -24
18 10 23 2 48 72 0
19 23 22 1 23 36 13
20 35 21 1 22 36 27
21 14 R 1 21 0 6
22 25 20 2 42 72 36
23 8 19 1 20 36 52
24 20 18 1 19 36 69
25 8 R 1 18 0 51
26 0 17 2 36 72 87
27 15 16 1 17 36 106
28 6 15 1 16 36 126
29 26 R 1 15 0 111
30 17 14 2 30 72 153
31 26 R 1 14 0 139
32 31 13 2 28 72 183
33 6 R 1 13 0 170
34 2 12 2 26 72 216
35 20 R 1 12 0 204
36 21 R 2 24 0 180
37 35 R 3 36 0 144
38 33 11 4 48 144 240
39 34 10 3 33 108 315
40 5 R 2 20 0 295
41 2 R 3 30 0 265
42 31 R 4 40 0 225
43 30 R 5 50 0 175
44 13 R 6 60 0 115
45 23 R 7 70 0 45
46 8 R 8 80 0 -35
47 27 9 9 90 324 199
48 22 8 8 72 288 415
49 9 7 7 56 252 611
50 17 R 6 42 0 569
51 22 R 7 49 0 520
52 28 R 8 56 0 464
53 0 R 9 63 0 401
54 1 R 10 70 0 331
55 3 6 11 77 396 650
56 22
57 3
58 6
59 17
60 21
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 31, 05:49 AM 2016
3spins +£30.00 should taken the winnings, But as you can KEEP THE FAITH  press on and you've got your +£56.00,
-1 on the 15 in 30spins, also 1 down on 30 non hits in 60 spins


spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 35 36
2 29 35
3 32 34
4 1 33
5 19 32
6 18 31
7 3 30
8 11 29
9 17 28
10 0 27
11 12 26 1 27 36 9
12 30 25 1 26 36 19
13 14 24 1 25 36 30 should have taken the £30.00
14 17 R 1 24 0 6
15 18 R 2 48 0 -42
16 26 23 3 72 108 -6
17 6 22 2 46 72 20
18 3 R 1 22 0 -2
19 19 R 2 44 0 -46
20 30 R 3 66 0 -112
21 27 21 4 88 144 -56
22 31 20 3 63 108 -11
23 13 19 2 40 72 21
24 4 18 1 19 36 38
25 29 R 1 18 0 20
26 15 17 2 36 72 56 stop £56.00
27 0 56
28 35 56
29 33 56
30 6 56
31 22 56
32 3 56
33 32 56
34 31 56
35 25 56
36 31 56
37 4 56
38 28 56
39 32 56
40 33 56
41 34 56
42 16 56
43 35 56
44 27 56
45 9 56
46 27 56
47 6 56
48 23 56
49 5 56
50 14 56
51 3 56
52 3 56
53 13 56
54 26 56
55 3 56
56 17
57 9
58 28
59 34
60 25
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 31, 04:01 PM 2016
These numbers where from under the gun in Holy Grail reply 60
Had a problem flat bet.
So how does betting the non hit only fair. +£51.00  #35 12th spin of betting.


spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 0 36
2 34 35
3 19 34
4 6 33
5 36 32
6 4 31
7 11 30
8 2 29
9 17 28 stake
10 21 27 non-hit return
11 5 26 1 27 36 9
12 10 25 1 26 36 19
13 28 24 1 25 36 30
14 21 R 1 24 0 6
15 6 R 2 48 0 -42
16 29 23 3 72 108 -6
17 33 22 2 46 72 20
18 19 R 1 22 0 -2
19 32 21 2 44 72 26
20 0 R 1 21 0 5
21 1 20 2 42 72 35
22 35 19 1 20 36 51
23 17 R
24 36 R
25 18 18
26 5 R
27 33 R
28 4 R
29 24 17
30 33 R
31 29 R
32 33 R
33 13 16
34 3 15
35 31 14
36 29 R
37 31 R
38 34 R
39 18 R
40 25 13
41 28 R
42 5 R
43 20 12
44 4 R
45 13 R
46 33 R
47 4 R
48 1 R
49 9 11
50 1 R
51 36 R
52 25 R
53 15 10
54 19 R
55 17 R
56 30 9
57 13 R
58 27 8
59 25 R
60 0 R

61 2
62 26
63 36
64 28
65 7
66 5
67 11
68 21
69 3
70 0
71 3
72 32
73 21
74 22
75 21
76 23
77 24
78 30
79 0
80 27
28
0
22
1
33
34
6
26
30
27
7
13
11
7
21
0
22
5
1
7
3
28
17
27




Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 01, 03:15 PM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 1.2.16    +£46.00, but if you must go on +£55.00

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 22 36
2 3 35
3 12 34
4 18 33
5 33 32
6 26 31
7 6 30
8 28 29
9 2 28 stake
10 16 27 non-hit return
11 27 26 1 27 36 9
12 26 R 1 26 0 -17
13 36 25 2 52 72 3
14 35 24 1 25 36 14
15 27 R 1 24 0 -10
16 34 23 2 48 72 14
17 2 R 1 23 0 -9
18 5 22 2 46 72 17
19 32 21 1 22 36 31
20 24 20 1 21 36 46 Personally I'd stop
21 12 R 1 20 0 26
22 24 R 2 40 0 -14
23 32 R 3 60 0 -74
24 17 19 4 80 144 -10
25 28 R 3 57 0 -67
26 4 18 4 76 144 1
27 14 17 3 54 108 55 Stop
28 21 55
29 1 55
30 5 55
31 8 55
32 30 55
33 4 55
34 18 55
35 35 55
36 27
37 30
38 36
39 0
40 0
41 19
42 7
43 10
44 10
45 19
46 18
47 20
48 0
49 2
50 34
51 7
52 21
53 17
54 2
55 3
56 11
57 9
58 35
59 26
60 29

61 15
62 33
63 6
64 7
65 26
66 20
67 23
68 18
69 25
70 18
71 28
72 26
73 14
74 13
75 0
76 23
77 23
78 25
79 3
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 01, 03:21 PM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Jan 30, 01:51 PM 2016
When you lose, you bet +1=2 on all unhit numbers, if lose again, then +1=3 units on all unhit numbers .
On hit, you take of winning number and -1 on all unhit numbers.

That is how I understand Notto, his word will be last.

When you stop?
So we wait 10 numbers. Then start betting the other 27 as explained above. Let's say we are another 5 spins further and with profit. Where do we stop ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 01, 03:47 PM 2016
With £1.00 units,when as near to £50 or +£50, Usually you can win £50/60. Like said as close to the £50 or +£50, your decision.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 01, 03:52 PM 2016
$5 units. One session a day.  :)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 02, 04:39 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 01, 03:47 PM 2016
With £1.00 units,when as near to £50 or +£50, Usually you can win £50/60. Like said as close to the £50 or +£50, your decision.

Ok sounds good. What br you recommend?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 02, 04:19 PM 2016
Hi Den 400 units.
These are Jackpot 247.com  2.2.16   KTF   +51  #6  9th spin of betting. Fast trot spins 11-30, so stating the obvious wouldn't you expect to see repeats 31-60

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 7 36
2 21 35
3 12 34
4 17 33
5 9 32
6 5 31
7 33 30
8 36 29
9 8 28 stake
10 36 R non-hit return
11 16 27 1 28 36 8
12 17 R 1 27 0 -19
13 23 26 2 54 72 -1
14 10 25 1 26 36 9
15 35 24 1 25 36 20
16 19 23 1 24 36 32
17 30 22 1 23 36 45 could stop here
18 36 R 1 22 0 23
19 6 21 2 44 72 51 stop here
20 10 R 1 21 0 30
21 1 20 2 42 72 60
22 10 R 1 20 0 40
23 14 19 2 40 72 72
24 4 18 1 19 36 89
25 20 17 1 18 36 107
26 9 R 1 17 0 90
27 12 R 2 34 0 56
28 22 16 3 51 108 113
29 18 15 2 32 72 153
30 27 14 1 15 36 174
31 7 R 1 14 0 160
32 18 R 2 28 0 132
33 2 13 3 42 108 198
34 22 R 2 26 0 172
35 12 R 3 39 0 133
36 23 R 4 52 0 81
37 24 12 5 65 180 196
38 6 R 4 48 0 148
39 24 R 5 60 0 88
40 17 R 6 72 0 16
41 34 11 7 84 252 184
42 4 184
43 12 184
44 9 184
45 20 184
46 5 184
47 16 184
48 22 184
49 10 184
50 23 184
51 19 184
52 7 184
53 19 184
54 27 184
55 9 184
56 25 184
57 20
58 35
59 26
60 11

61 14
62 25
63 20
64 28
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 03, 12:33 PM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 3.2.16 taped for nearly 3 hrs, 82 spins.

KTF wins £45 #32 5th spin of betting, can get +50  at #0  14th spin of betting.

With 82 spins, 29non hit/60spins, used the 22 spins for a new game,should wait for all 37 to be hit, but wins +£52 #7 8th spin of betting 15th non hit, to see this you'll have to look at the sheet.
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 1 36
2 20 35
3 35 34
4 8 33
5 4 32
6 1 R
7 2 31
8 28 30
9 28 R stake
10 16 29 non-hit return
11 6 28 1 29 36 7
12 3 27 1 28 36 15
13 36 26 1 27 36 24
14 18 25 1 26 36 34
15 32 24 1 25 36 45 could stop here
16 20 R 1 24 0 21
17 30 23 2 48 72 45 Take the £45
18 4 R 1 23 0 22
19 2 R 2 46 0 -24
20 26 22 3 69 108 15
21 18 R 2 44 0 -29
22 12 21 3 66 108 13
23 34 20 2 42 72 43
24 0 19 1 20 36 59 stop here £59
25 19 18
26 27 17
27 32 R
28 11 16
29 27 R
30 27 R
31 26 R
32 0 R
33 32 R
34 28 R
35 18 R
36 0 R
37 25 15
38 2 R
39 29 14
40 4 R
41 36 R
42 12 R
43 13 13
44 3 R
45 6 R
46 13 R
47 11 R
48 29 R
49 2 R
50 25 R
51 5 12
52 12 R
53 15 11
54 4 R
55 21 10
56 26 R
57 35 R
58 20 R
59 31 9
60 17 8 29 non hit in 60 spins

61 20 R
62 16 R
63 22 7
64 8 R
65 27 R
66 22 R
67 26 R
68 36 R
69 28 R
70 36 R
71 14 6
72 18 R
73 26 R
74 4 R
75 19 R
76 13 R
77 11 R
78 7 5 Just 5 to find after 82 spins
79 12 R
80 8 R
81 30 R
82 5 R
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 03, 12:46 PM 2016
I'm impressed with your results Notto....
I will give it a try. (Virtual at first)

Did you bust your br sometimes?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JimmieB on Feb 03, 01:06 PM 2016
Hey NTH,

It's amazing right enough how you get the 15 numbers coming out from spins 11 to 40 :)!!!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 03, 03:58 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 03, 12:46 PM 2016
I'm impressed with your results Notto....
I will give it a try. (Virtual at first)

Did you bust your br sometimes?

When first started yes,but over time with tweeks its got better.
Like Jimmie B said, spins 11-30 so often you get 15 non hits,also if you collect 60 spins nearly always see 30 non hit.
So if 15.68293 non hit, is avg for 30 spins, add the 15 to the number of non hit you had in the spins1-10. On todays game thats 8+15=23, at spin 40 its 23 non hit have hit, so spin 40 wil be the 30th spin.
If you look on the sheet you see the arrow pointing count back, so if start with 23 what we expect at spins 40/39 count back from boxes 40/39 in twos,use this to watch the trot,like today 13th non hit came on spin 15,look to count back and it could be only 11 non hit,so i interpret this fast and you would expect to see some of what Winkel would call 1x's, to appear. So although you could bet every spin, if you see the non hits are hitting fast,perhaps you could play for a repeat. But when the 13th non hit,hit you had won £45,me i'd stop, go to another machine or in your case table/wheel and start again.

I've updated todays Jackpot 247.com's spins it will say Jackpot joy avg
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JimmieB on Feb 03, 09:20 PM 2016
As NTH, and a few other members have mentioned, I think you need to get an understanding of the trot, which is not easy, I admit that. I now believe, after my early martingale days, this is the way to (hopefully!!) enjoy & prosper from roulette, whether that be a few quid after a night out in your local B&M casino/bookies/Latvian (oh you're lovely, and yes they are for a reason) online casino, or, make a living from it, if your BR is big enough, then fair enough, for me, it's an extra bit each month to treat the wife & kids for a nice night out dining, plus my wife would stop moaning about me being on the computer all the time on this bloody forum, although, I'm sure there would be something else for her to moan about, my small penis would be a start :), however, it's big enough to fill a pram (twice over)!!

Anyway, on a more serious note, as was mentioned earlier on another thread, experience teaches you these things, my ramblings at this moment might be getting sniggered at by the "senior" members of the forum, however, I don't think they will be, I reckon they will say, "there's a guy who is at least trying and taking it in", it's like most things in life, you need to adapt to the situation that's in front of you, it's instinct, there's a reason why people excel at what they do, they adapt, they learn, practice, get better, and they learn more , practice more, get better, they lear....yeah, you've got the picture, I know it sounds cheesy as hell, however, I believe that is the way it is.

For example, look at the thread about where are all the old school members, Soggett (sp?, apologies if wrong!!), popped up and mentioned he's going to study GUT, will he play it, I'm not sure, however, this guy is going to study it, and an experienced member to boot, and I reckon it will change his thinking to a certain extent.

If somebody asked me how to play KTF/GUT/any LOTT system, could I explain it, no I can’t, because you have to be there, in the moment. Again sounding cheesy, at almost 44 years old, and still playing football (soccer for you guys in the US of A), can I tell you how I’m going to play each game, of course not, yeah,  I have an idea before kickoff (I’ll give it my all, etc.), although, after kick off, I look what’s happening in front/behind/left/right/ of me & I play according to the situation, and I’ll do what I think is right, sometimes that is wrong, sometimes I will get it right, I’m trying to read the game...and see when I get it wrong, hopefully I won’t get it wrong again â€" to me the game is the trot.

Mods, please feel free to move, maybe all of this post to another part of the forum, and fellow members, sorry for the rant, I’ve been out at the pub to watch my football (again, soccer for you guys in the US of A, yes, I’m being a patronising a**hole) team, getting pumped by Aberdeen, & I’m pissed off...but I love this forum, and it’s one of the first things I check whilst having my morning coffee. ;D
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 04, 02:40 AM 2016
Jimmie, I hope that hangover will have mercy on you...  ;)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JimmieB on Feb 04, 06:21 AM 2016
 Oh, my head.... :o :( :)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 04, 06:40 AM 2016
Todays numbers J 247.com  4.2.16

Again got 82 #'s

Game 1  17non hit in 30 spins,  in 60spins 31 non hit, if use all 82 #'s 36 of 37 #'s have hit.
As i've mentioned i can see on the machine of death all 37 #'s have been hit in 120 spins,Note not always,but quite often, so does that mean the machine is in payout mode.

Game 2 +£50 just love that 5 spins,stop move on, or 14 non hits in 15 spins, why not think about betting for the repeat,you have got £50 winnings to use.
Remember the old 12 unique topic, well 12 come and the repeat is what you would get using the +£50 winnings, Just keep your whits about you,think whats happening, Non hits are fast so repeats have to start appearing.

Perhaps if members had not given Winkel so much negativity, he would have divulged how to bet every spin.

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 23 36
2 16 35
3 27 34
4 26 33
5 5 32
6 31 31
7 28 30
8 8 29
9 36 28 stake
10 26 R non-hit return
11 20 27 1 28 36 8
12 27 R 1 27 0 -19
13 16 R 2 54 0 -73
14 4 26 3 81 108 -46
15 17 25 2 52 72 -26
16 7 24 1 25 36 -15
17 22 23 1 24 36 -3
18 22 R 1 23 0 -26
19 34 22 2 46 72 0
20 34 R 1 22 0 -22
21 11 21 2 44 72 6
22 25 20 1 21 36 21
23 14 19 1 20 36 37
24 10 18 1 19 36 54
25 24 17 1
26 13 16 1
27 19 15 1
28 31 R 1
29 17 R 2
30 8 R 3
31 2 14 4
32 34 R 3
33 1 13 4
34 3 12 3
35 20 R 2
36 20 R 3
37 13 R 4
38 35 11 5
39 31 R 4
40 16 R 5
41 36
42 35
43 30
44 18
45 6
46 11
47 3
48 13
49 8
50 14
51 35
52 1
53 33
54 12
55 4
56 16
57 12
58 26
59 24
60 34

61 0
62 22
63 4
64 12
65 36
66 21
67 4
68 32
69 33
70 35
71 18
72 30
73 6
74 8
75 15
76 10
77 9
78 30
79 26
80 4
81 27
82 34
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 04, 08:44 PM 2016
HOLY CRAP!!!

Just got back from the local B&M.
That had to be the easiest $50 I ever made in 14 spins.

I played on an American wheel and also covered the 0 and 00 for a total of $28 on level one and used +1 on a loss and -1on a win.
Is that correct?

I used a $400 BR and did not go past level of +2.
What would be the best maximum level of progression to quit after?

I can't believe it was that simple.
I keep thinking I am missing something.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: thelaw on Feb 04, 08:49 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 04, 08:44 PM 2016
HOLY CRAP!!!

Just got back from the local B&M.
That had to be the easiest $50 I ever made in 14 spins.

I played on an American wheel and also covered the 0 and 00 for a total of $28 on level one and used +1 on a loss and -1on a win.
Is that correct?

I used a $400 BR and did not go past level of +2.
What would be the best maximum level of progression to quit after?

I can't believe it was that simple.
I keep thinking I am missing something.

-Celtic

Keep testing!!! Love to see one of these methods work out! Thanks!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 04, 08:54 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 04, 06:40 AM 2016


Perhaps if members had not given Winkel so much negativity, he would have divulged how to bet every spin.



come on baby thats the name of the game around here!!

seriously though, great strategy notto
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 04, 09:13 PM 2016
Quote from: thelaw on Feb 04, 08:49 PM 2016
Keep testing!!! Love to see one of these methods work out! Thanks!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

-Law

Thank you.

By the way this was done with very little virtual testing and played live.

The one thing that I have not seen mentioned and what I did was when a number hit I removed it from the sequence BUT I added the oldest hit number back into the sequence so I was always plaing with a total of 28 bets regardless of the level.

Is this correct.

I am a hit and run player player and this method suits me just fine.

I am disappointed that others are not posting any tweaks for testing but oh well what can you do.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 05, 03:09 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 04, 09:13 PM 2016
I was always plaing with a total of 28 bets regardless of the level.
Is this correct.

This is very wrong, as you want to bet less numbers - to win more and lose less.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 05, 03:23 AM 2016
Celticknits
I play 99% of time on RNG as members know. KTF played many years now,tweeking as necessary. I was ignorant to Winkel and GUT once, but thank someone i started to read it. I could see the similarity to what i was doing with KTF. What i didn't see in KTF was how the non hit was a 1 hit and that 1 hit became a problem, repeating.
The repeats are not what i and KTF want.
But once i started to use the GUT paper tracker, i could see how the trot was working. Winkel and GUT showed how the LOTT could affect KTF.
So i started a data base on games played like the one being built using Jackpot 247.com, this showed how long a group of non hit can take to come in,its max spins, its averag to come in, the best part though is the 15 point something in 30 spins. I'll put the updated J 247.com doc at the end.

Celtic  no dont add back old hit numbers, all you do is have 10 spins scrub those that are hit, lets say its 10 out of 10,no repeat, so you have left 27 non hit numbers. Now all you do is bet the remaining non hit in this case 27, if win you now only have to bet the 26 non hit, so the non hits are going down, the wins are going up.
USE +1/-1 as you play, never drop back more than 1 unit at a time
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 05, 03:53 AM 2016
Just to make sure...those first 10...they need to be unique numbers ?

I'm going in today.... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 05, 04:06 AM 2016
As above Den

The 1st 10 spins let you know how many of the 37 non hit have hit. If 10 hit, you now start betting the 27 remaining non hit, if win,now you bet the 26 non hit, again if win now bet the 25 non hit.
As the non hit,hit your bets get cheaper.

Progression use +1/-1, only drop back 1 unit at a time.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 05, 04:38 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com  5.2.16  KTF +£46.00 

Do you see dont start betting untill spin 11, i stopped at spin 22, 12 bet of betting. If you KEEP THE FAITH next spin +63 you must stop. Thats 19 non hit in 23 spins, so the 1 hit should start to appear, this is why you stop, you have made +46 or even +63, go to another table where a fresh 37 non hit are due.

Why do i say due, its because you have not been involved in its previous spins,so all 37 pockets are fresh to KTF.

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 34 36
2 18 35
3 19 34
4 14 33
5 20 32
6 22 31
7 7 30
8 5 29
9 30 28 stake
10 10 27 non-hit return
11 10 R 1 27 0 -27
12 35 26 2 54 72 -9
13 19 R 1 26 0 -35
14 11 25 2 52 72 -15
15 2 24 1 25 36 -4
16 18 R 1 24 0 -28
17 27 23 2 48 72 -4
18 1 22 1 23 36 9
19 34 R 1 22 0 -13
20 28 21 2 44 72 15
21 36 20 1 21 36 30
22 26 19 1 20 36 46 I'd stop here
23 25 18 1 19 36 63
24 15 17
25 2 R
26 26 R
27 31 16
28 29 15
29 19 R
30 2 R
31 13 14
32 11 R
33 23 13
34 19 R
35 22 R
36 31 R
37 14 R
38 9 12
39 10 R
40 8 11 so 11 non-hit left to find
41 18 R That’s 16 non-hit in last 30 spins
42 25 R
43 23 R
44 0 10
45 8 R
46 36 R
47 4 9
48 15 R
49 2 R
50 9 R
51 25 R
52 16 8
53 18 R
54 36 R
55
56
57
58
59
60
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: maestro on Feb 05, 05:29 AM 2016
no wonder notto you got 19 numbers non hit in 23 spins   that is z score -4. something you are set to get 2,3 hits..good luck
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 05, 05:40 AM 2016
Quote from: maestro on Feb 05, 05:29 AM 2016
no wonder notto you got 19 numbers non hit in 23 spins   that is z score -4. something you are set to get 2,3 hits..good luck

now you've lost me
did you mean19 non hit numbers in 23 spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 05, 05:55 AM 2016
Now i was a naughty boy at school, when at school,so you will understand i missed out the maths.
With my cse in maths, not O level or A level, so when a math guy throws Z score, what does it mean.

Am i going to sit in the betting shop playing on the machine of death working out Z scores, come on, Roulette is a game of chance.

To me i want something that is simple, not working out formulas, i'll bliss fully play the non hit of the wheel, start with 37, after 10 spins away goes nottop hammer betting the remaining non hit, 5 some times 12 spins later out the door +50 or as near to the +50
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 05, 06:18 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 05, 05:55 AM 2016
Now i was a naughty boy at school... away goes notti hammer  out the door +50 or as near to the +50

I knew that naughty have to do something with notti!
Glad you make it work for you.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Chris555p on Feb 05, 08:52 AM 2016
@Notto - What is the maximum number of units for the progression, u had to use with this system.....?
What is 2 or 3 units per number or more....? I will give it a test run, Thanks.




Chris
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 05, 10:06 AM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Feb 05, 03:09 AM 2016
This is very wrong, as you want to bet less numbers - to win more and lose less.

Thank you for the information.
I understand what you are saying.
I did it because I saw several of the uniques hit when they could have been added on.
Live and learn.

-Celticknits
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 05, 10:14 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 05, 03:23 AM 2016
Celticknits
I play 99% of time on RNG as members know. KTF played many years now,tweeking as necessary. I was ignorant to Winkel and GUT once, but thank someone i started to read it. I could see the similarity to what i was doing with KTF. What i didn't see in KTF was how the non hit was a 1 hit and that 1 hit became a problem, repeating.
The repeats are not what i and KTF want.
But once i started to use the GUT paper tracker, i could see how the trot was working. Winkel and GUT showed how the LOTT could affect KTF.
So i started a data base on games played like the one being built using Jackpot 247.com, this showed how long a group of non hit can take to come in,its max spins, its averag to come in, the best part though is the 15 point something in 30 spins. I'll put the updated J 247.com doc at the end.

Celtic  no dont add back old hit numbers, all you do is have 10 spins scrub those that are hit, lets say its 10 out of 10,no repeat, so you have left 27 non hit numbers. Now all you do is bet the remaining non hit in this case 27, if win you now only have to bet the 26 non hit, so the non hits are going down, the wins are going up.
USE +1/-1 as you play, never drop back more than 1 unit at a time

-Notto

I understand what you are saying and thank you for this information.
I do use +1/-1 and only drop back 1 on a win.

By the way thank you for the blank chart you posted near the beginning of this thread, I find it easier to track everything with it.

-Celticknits
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 05, 12:17 PM 2016
Quote from: Chris555p on Feb 05, 08:52 AM 2016
@Notto - What is the maximum number of units for the progression, u had to use with this system.....?
What is 2 or 3 units per number or more....? I will give it a test run, Thanks.




Chris
Hi Chris the progression all depends on the trot, if 0x's are not showing, then the prog goes up because the 1x's are hitting.
I've seen in testing it get to double figures, but thankfully that does not happen to often.
When you test think of where your stop loss will be, as shown you can make 50/60 units, also i've said why i take an earlier win, remember to watch how fast the non hit,hit. Todays game spins 11-20 was avg, 6, 0x to 4, 1x, so the prog was low,then spins 21-30, 3 0x's hit plus +46 0n the #26,so i stopped, in 12 spins of betting we've had 8 0x's so i'd expect to see some repeats, but the win is there so move to another table and start with 37 non hits
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Feb 05, 04:36 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 04, 09:13 PM 2016
-Law

Thank you.

By the way this was done with very little virtual testing and played live.

The one thing that I have not seen mentioned and what I did was when a number hit I removed it from the sequence BUT I added the oldest hit number back into the sequence so I was always plaing with a total of 28 bets regardless of the level.

Is this correct.

I am a hit and run player player and this method suits me just fine.

I am disappointed that others are not posting any tweaks for testing but oh well what can you do.

-Celtic

What you have done is every spin becomes your 28 sleeper spin. 
The only advice I have for you is make sure you do it right. Especially when you have multiple repeats to count to make your 28 sleepers.
The trout from hell that will kill you is one that has 5-7 repeats with in 15 to 20 spins. That's were you will have to be careful as to which numbers you adding, since removing is easy it's the last number hit.
However, you would have to be very unlucky for that to happen. It does happen.
Have enough arsenal to protect you from that disaster or have a stop loss somewhere.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 06, 05:21 AM 2016
Just copying last nights #'s down.
From the way it starts it could be a bust day. Be back soon as i'm doing it the old pen and paper way.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 06, 06:09 AM 2016
Dramatic!

Hopefully with happy ending...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 06, 06:16 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 6.2.16  KTF, if you KEEP THE FAITH  +£168
But you got to jump, take a win as close to the £50/60, personally i'd have stopped at spin 16. I/we talk of the trot, well how about you watch the trot of the profit, here it builds 3 spins +27, next spin down to +2, so you should have stopped/jumped. Now your calling your self stupid should of got off with the money, so i'll KTF up to +24, do you go, you KTF +£36, £9 higher than the last high, so STOP.
There you now got two trots to watch.


spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 34 36
2 4 35
3 0 34
4 7 33
5 34 r
6 25 32
7 23 31
8 22 30
9 6 29 stake
10 9 28 non-hit return
11 27 27 1 28 36 8
12 3 26 1 27 36 17
13 11 25 1 26 36 27
14 11 r 1 25 0 2
15 13 24 2 50 72 24
16 17 23 1 24 36 36
17 3 r 1 23 0 13
18 34 r 2 46 0 -33
19 4 r 3 69 0 -102
20 16 22 4 92 144 -50
21 17 r 3 66 0 -116
22 21 21 4 88 144 -60
23 18 20 3 63 108 -15
24 7 r 2 40 0 -55
25 3 r 3 60 0 -115
26 32 19 4 80 144 -51
27 5 18 3 57 108 0
28 34 r 2 36 0 -36
29 17 r 3 54 0 -90
30 19 17 4 72 144 -18
31 3 r 3 51 0 -69
32 10 16 4 68 144 7
33 17 r 3 48 0 -41
34 30 15 4 64 144 39
35 23 r 3 45 0 -6
36 21 r 4 60 0 -66
37 18 r 5 75 0 -141
38 4 r 6 90 0 -231
39 3 r 7 105 0 -336
40 3 r 8 120 0 -456
41 8 14 9 135 324 -267
42 14 13 8 112 288 -91
43 16 r 7 91 0 -182
44 33 12 8 104 288 2
45 17 r 7 84 0 -82
46 16 r 8 96 0 -178
47 26 11 9 108 324 38
48 24 10 8 88 288 238
49 0 r 7 70 0 168


Just see your post next year, all i hear is Jon Bon Jovi  KEEP THE FAITH
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 06, 06:25 AM 2016
It is becoming boring...
Could you not lose sometime, just for fun?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 06, 06:33 AM 2016
If you are following the sheets on this you will see in between the 4*10 boxes a count going on.
This might help you see the trot.
You'll have your 1st 10 spins to find out how many non hit,hit. Today 9.

Now in jackpot joy average doc, it shows avg in 30 spins, spins 11-40, 15.72093, so if you except we see 15 non hit in 30 spins,know the MATH guys will say round up to 16,but the 15 is half of 30, perfect.

So if we agree we could get 15 non hit in next 30spins, we add the 9 +15 to get 24.

Now back track from 39/40 in 2's, this could be the trot.

So 0x 12 is early and you are +27, so you could take the winnings or wait and watch the trot non hit 14 is well early and look what happens. Do i need to show more.

Next year, its got to take a hit sometime, but like the guvnor Winkel says watch the trot if not sure then jump.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 06, 10:40 AM 2016
Thx Notto. ... played 3 sessions  (rng)... +120  units.

It could be more . First session was easy. Second session go forward and back a bit so I stopped when I was in +. Third session smoothly. 

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 06, 01:16 PM 2016
Hi Den
Thats it you can always take an early win.
Like todays up in 3 spins,down, then came back so take the win
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Feb 06, 06:15 PM 2016
Hello Notto... Just to see that I have this correct. Here are the first 25 spins from my live play tonight on Celtic's 00 wheel.

1. 10 (37)
2. 19 (36)
3. 17 (35)
4. 10 (35)
5. 27 (34)
6. 13 (33)
7. 16 (32)
8. 34 (31)
9. 7 (30)
10. 24 (29) So 9 original numbers and 1 repeat.
11. 3 (28) +7.
12. 28 (27) +15.
13. 17 (27) -12.
14. 36 (26) +6.
15. 11 (25) +16.
16. 10 (25) -9.
17. 23 (24) +13.
18. 34 (24) -11.
19. 29 (23) +13.
20. 31 (22) +26.
21. 5 (21) +40.
22. 10 (21) +19.
23. 13 (21) -23.
24. 26 (20) +22.
25. 25 (19) +54.

Not all smooth sailing as you can see with the 5 losses...but still came out with a good profit after the 25 spins.

cheers
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 06, 07:52 PM 2016
it did what its suppose to do, you can always take an earlier win like +40.
Good to see it won on the 00 wheel that extra pocket can be a problem.
You'll need to dry test and see if $40/50 be a good time to quit for that extra pocket.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 06, 08:23 PM 2016
Woggy you did +1 on a loss -1 on a win?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 06, 08:37 PM 2016
I like it alot. Unplayable on a real table

Need to be airball or a fair rng

Notto, my local casino has $5 rng at the bar......maybe a whiskey and some playtime
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 06, 09:23 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 06, 07:52 PM 2016
it did what its suppose to do, you can always take an earlier win like +40.
Good to see it won on the 00 wheel that extra pocket can be a problem.
You'll need to dry test and see if $40/50 be a good time to quit for that extra pocket.

-notto

All of my live play has been on an American 00 wheel.
No Euro 0 wheel available live in my area.
I have not noticed anything bad with KTF bon the American wheel but I have only been playing it for about a week.
Made $200+ last week.
I do cover the individual 0 and 00 seperately.
So my initial bet is 28 units.

One of the main things I have to watch when I play KTF is to not get greedy.
Once I see $30-40 I start looking for an out.
If I hit $30 within the first six spins I will quit.

I may then take the $30 profit and play the Dont Knock It method.
Regardless my maximum time in the casino will be 1-1/2 hours.

Also if I am up around the 30th spin and had ANY profit I would quit.

I have to slow down at my B&M because they are starting to take notice.
I never use a players card but they can still track me with the eye in the sky and facial recognition.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 06, 09:41 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 06, 08:23 PM 2016
Woggy you did +1 on a loss -1 on a win?

I don't think he did.

Assuming the numbers in brackets are his stake look at the bets around spin 13.
On the loss it looks like he reduced by 1 instead of increasing.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 04:06 AM 2016
The prog would be 1,1,1,2,1,1,2,1,2,1,1,1,2,3,2

Celticknits
Once I see $30-40 I start looking for an out.
If I hit $30 within the first six spins I will quit.  Good to read,why go for more, the 1x's will appear, making you have to KFT.

The £50/60 is on euro, on the 00 like celt's make it lower, that 1 xtra pocket means early repeat longer to play
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 07, 05:01 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 07, 04:06 AM 2016
... that 1 xtra pocket means early repeat longer to play

Notto, I think that the more numbers there are - the less chance for repeat!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 06:20 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 7.2.16  KTF +£45  #14  i'd take it

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 3 36
2 4 35
3 21 34
4 10 33
5 5 32
6 22 31
7 3 r
8 3 r
9 36 30 stake
10 0 29 non-hit return
11 12 28 1 29 36 7
12 20 27 1 28 36 15
13 25 26 1 27 36 24
14 23 25 1 26 36 34
15 14 24 1 25 36 45
16 19 23 1 24 36 57
17 6 22 1
18 20 r 1
19 22 r 2
20 33 21 3
21 2 20 2
22 2 r 1
23 33 r 2
24 29 19 3
25 27 18 2
26 35 17 1
27 7 16 1
28 5 r 1
29 20 r 2
30 35 r 3
31 26 15 4
32 2 r 3
33 0 r 4
34 6 r 5
35 11 14 6
36 34 13 5
37 7 r 4
38 18 12 5
39 15 11 4
40 23 r 3
41 23 r
42 31 10
43 6 r
44 32 9
45 27 r
46 19 r
47 11 r
48 26 r
49 28 8
50 8 7
51 2 r
52 25 r
53 33 r
54 36 r
55 24 6
56 22 r
57 30 5
58 16 4
59 26 r
60 5 r

61 12 r
62 30 r
63 26 r
64 14 r
65 22 r
66 32 r
67 16 r
68 1 3
69 27 r
70 0 r
71 14 r
72 17 2
73 27 r
74 14 r
75 1 r
76 4 r
77 0 r
78 32 r
79 8 r
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 08:07 AM 2016
Wow from the past
Main Roulette Board / Re: Have I figured something new out about roulette?
« on: March 05, 2014, 07:38:35 PM »
Wyldegibson.
No need to be sorry as any idea is worth seeing, you never know,the math people might have given you the answer you were looking for,the H.G.
The old Ausguy was liking it for a while, and he's not a bad old guy,lol RNGGGGGGGGGGG.

Here's some rng from today in ladbrokes. I'll place them in blocks of ten. Won £51.00 on repeats and new numbers to come.
11,17,12,26,25,30,19,24,10,4

16,23,29,21,30,21,13,14,11,23

24,1,11,1,28,32,22,29,10,32

30,23,3,11,25,34,32,33,0,16

28,35,13,31,0,10,26,26,3,3

34,24,22,30,5,23,17,14,31,9

28,9,4,21,24,0,4,28,31,12

0,14,34,32,23,29,26,19,8

But really forget all the outside bets, the casino loves people playing them. Remember when column3 is missing for 30 odd spins and black hitting for say 24 spins, its BOOM

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 11 36
2 17 35
3 12 34
4 26 33
5 25 32
6 30 31
7 19 30
8 24 29
9 10 28 stake
10 4 27 non-hit return
11 16 26 1 27 36 9
12 23 25 1 26 36 19
13 29 24 1 25 36 30
14 21 23 1 24 36 42


Not quite KTF but i'm on its case, but it would be +42 and go
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Feb 07, 08:26 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 06, 08:23 PM 2016
Woggy you did +1 on a loss -1 on a win?

Yes, I did mate. The numbers in brackets are the numbers reducing after a hit. The highest I went was 3 units on spin 24 and then reduced it to 2 units on spin 25.

cheers
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 11:18 AM 2016
Quote from: wiggy on Feb 07, 08:26 AM 2016
Yes, I did mate. The numbers in brackets are the numbers reducing after a hit. The highest I went was 3 units on spin 24 and then reduced it to 2 units on spin 25.

cheers

Hi Wiggy i did the prog in reply 60, maybe take an earlier win that extra pocket could make you bet longer, +40 was there
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 07, 11:30 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 07, 06:20 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 7.2.16  KTF +£45  #14  i'd take it

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 3 36
2 4 35
3 21 34
4 10 33
5 5 32
6 22 31
7 3 r
8 3 r
9 36 30 stake
10 0 29 non-hit return
11 12 28 1 29 36 7
12 20 27 1 28 36 15
13 25 26 1 27 36 24
14 23 25 1 26 36 34
15 14 24 1 25 36 45
16 19 23 1 24 36 57
17 6 22 1
18 20 r 1
19 22 r 2
20 33 21 3
21 2 20 2
22 2 r 1
23 33 r 2
24 29 19 3
25 27 18 2
26 35 17 1
27 7 16 1
28 5 r 1
29 20 r 2
30 35 r 3
31 26 15 4
32 2 r 3
33 0 r 4
34 6 r 5
35 11 14 6
36 34 13 5
37 7 r 4
38 18 12 5
39 15 11 4
40 23 r 3
41 23 r
42 31 10
43 6 r
44 32 9
45 27 r
46 19 r
47 11 r
48 26 r
49 28 8
50 8 7
51 2 r
52 25 r
53 33 r
54 36 r
55 24 6
56 22 r
57 30 5
58 16 4
59 26 r
60 5 r

61 12 r
62 30 r
63 26 r
64 14 r
65 22 r
66 32 r
67 16 r
68 1 3
69 27 r
70 0 r
71 14 r
72 17 2
73 27 r
74 14 r
75 1 r
76 4 r
77 0 r
78 32 r
79 8 r


-notto

Would youplease take a look at the attached copy of your latest game chart and confirm whether I have labelled the columns correctly and explain what column #2 represents and how you use it while playing?

Thank You
-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 07, 11:53 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 03, 12:33 PM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 3.2.16 taped for nearly 3 hrs, 82 spins.

KTF wins £45 #32 5th spin of betting, can get +50  at #0  14th spin of betting.

With 82 spins, 29non hit/60spins, used the 22 spins for a new game,should wait for all 37 to be hit, but wins +£52 #7 8th spin of betting 15th non hit, to see this you'll have to look at the sheet.
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 1 36
2 20 35
3 35 34
4 8 33
5 4 32
6 1 R
7 2 31
8 28 30
9 28 R stake
10 16 29 non-hit return
11 6 28 1 29 36 7
12 3 27 1 28 36 15
13 36 26 1 27 36 24
14 18 25 1 26 36 34
15 32 24 1 25 36 45 could stop here
16 20 R 1 24 0 21
17 30 23 2 48 72 45 Take the £45
18 4 R 1 23 0 22
19 2 R 2 46 0 -24
20 26 22 3 69 108 15
21 18 R 2 44 0 -29
22 12 21 3 66 108 13
23 34 20 2 42 72 43
24 0 19 1 20 36 59 stop here £59
25 19 18
26 27 17
27 32 R
28 11 16
29 27 R
30 27 R
31 26 R
32 0 R
33 32 R
34 28 R
35 18 R
36 0 R
37 25 15
38 2 R
39 29 14
40 4 R
41 36 R
42 12 R
43 13 13
44 3 R
45 6 R
46 13 R
47 11 R
48 29 R
49 2 R
50 25 R
51 5 12
52 12 R
53 15 11
54 4 R
55 21 10
56 26 R
57 35 R
58 20 R
59 31 9
60 17 8 29 non hit in 60 spins

61 20 R
62 16 R
63 22 7
64 8 R
65 27 R
66 22 R
67 26 R
68 36 R
69 28 R
70 36 R
71 14 6
72 18 R
73 26 R
74 4 R
75 19 R
76 13 R
77 11 R
78 7 5 Just 5 to find after 82 spins
79 12 R
80 8 R
81 30 R
82 5 R


-notto

I assume you were playing an American wheel if not please explain the 29 stake when you started betting in line #11 also, when you started betting in spin #11 you only had 9 unique numbers.
What # did you put the additional chip on?

Thank You
-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 07, 12:42 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 07, 08:07 AM 2016
...... Won £51.00 on repeats and new numbers to come.

Notto, how you won on repeaters here?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 12:42 PM 2016
 Answer to Reply 66

column 1 is the number spun, 10, column 2 is whether a repeat or a non hit
So i know 10 non hit have come,  making 27 units the bet column 3, and show it as R,repeat, column 2.

Answer to reply 67
spin 0  37 non hit
spin 10 29

So 8 non hit would leave 29 to stake, spins 1-10 show 2 R, repeat. 1&28
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 12:54 PM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Feb 07, 12:42 PM 2016
Notto, how you won on repeaters here?

Long ago, might have been watching the previous 10 spins, they always seems to get a repeat from those previous 10, i would wait 5/6 spins if none have hit iwould bet the previous block of 10. Look at 1st block of 10, you see 30, well in the second block i'm waitng 5 spins and what hits the 30,so the bet has gone.Now in spins 21-30 keep track of spins 11-20, 4th spin repeat, bet gone
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 07, 08:07 AM 2016
Wow from the past
Main Roulette Board / Re: Have I figured something new out about roulette?
« on: March 05, 2014, 07:38:35 PM »
Wyldegibson.
No need to be sorry as any idea is worth seeing, you never know,the math people might have given you the answer you were looking for,the H.G.
The old Ausguy was liking it for a while, and he's not a bad old guy,lol RNGGGGGGGGGGG.

Here's some rng from today in ladbrokes. I'll place them in blocks of ten. Won £51.00 on repeats and new numbers to come.
11,17,12,26,25,30,19,24,10,4

16,23,29,21,30,21,13,14,11,23

24,1,11,1,28,32,22,29,10,32

30,23,3,11,25,34,32,33,0,16

28,35,13,31,0,10,26,26,3,3

34,24,22,30,5,23,17,14,31,9

28,9,4,21,24,0,4,28,31,12

0,14,34,32,23,29,26,19,8

But really forget all the outside bets, the casino loves people playing them. Remember when column3 is missing for 30 odd spins and black hitting for say 24 spins, its BOOM

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 11 36
2 17 35
3 12 34
4 26 33
5 25 32
6 30 31
7 19 30
8 24 29
9 10 28 stake
10 4 27 non-hit return
11 16 26 1 27 36 9
12 23 25 1 26 36 19
13 29 24 1 25 36 30
14 21 23 1 24 36 42


Not quite KTF but i'm on its case, but it would be +42 and go

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 07, 01:01 PM 2016
Thanks Notto, but were you playing last 10 to repeat, or just watching?
Also +1/-1?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 01:19 PM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Feb 07, 01:01 PM 2016
Thanks Notto, but were you playing last 10 to repeat, or just watching?
Also +1/-1?

if the block of 10 is 8 with 2 repeats,i'd bet the 8#'s with starting units of .20p
1,1,1,1,2,2,3,4,5,10,10,15,20,25,30,45,60. 17 chances +the 5 virtual and still lost.

So that idea went to the scrap heap, with many others.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 07, 01:38 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 07, 12:42 PM 2016
Answer to Reply 66

column 1 is the number spun, 10, column 2 is whether a repeat or a non hit
So i know 10 non hit have come,  making 27 units the bet column 3, and show it as R,repeat, column 2.

Answer to reply 67
spin 0  37 non hit
spin 10 29

So 8 non hit would leave 29 to stake, spins 1-10 show 2 R, repeat. 1&28

Thank you for your quick reply

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 01:47 PM 2016
Hi celts

i some times wonder if posted right, look, think, yeah got to be right.

only just found out about insert code thanks to Celescliff
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 07, 02:03 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 07, 01:47 PM 2016
Hi celts

i some times wonder if posted right, look, think, yeah got to be right.

only just found out about insert code thanks to Celescliff

-notto

I find the charts work great once you understand them.
I was not aware that you were staking the repeats in the first 10.
I alwars waited for 10 straight uniques.
Do you have a recommended MAXIMUM number of repeats that you would accecpt before starting to bet.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: thelaw on Feb 07, 02:53 PM 2016
To NH and everyone testing here:

Might be a good idea to keep a running total in units.

I've found that threads that keep this info up-to-date with testing, get a stronger response from others viewing the thread.

Just my $.02.

Keep up the great work-much appreciated :thumbsup:!!!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 02:59 PM 2016
No i dont touch the repeats in KTF the repeats mentioned few posts back  where some thing else. It was the numbers from ladbrokes i was showing.

KTF 1st 10 spins, if say 2 repeat in that 10, then take the 8 from the 37, your left with 29 unique non hit, thats your first bet, depending on whether wins or loseses use +1/-1, +1 on a loss, -1 on a win   
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 07, 03:08 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 07, 02:59 PM 2016
No i dont touch the repeats in KTF the repeats mentioned few posts back  where some thing else. It was the numbers from ladbrokes i was showing.

KTF 1st 10 spins, if say 2 repeat in that 10, then take the 8 from the 37, your left with 29 unique non hit, thats your first bet, depending on whether wins or loseses use +1/-1, +1 on a loss, -1 on a win

-notto

Finally the light came on for me.
Sorry to be such a pain but when my testing with KTF is live with a $500 BR I just want to be sure I understand.
I will not bother you again today.

Again----Thank You

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 07, 04:18 PM 2016
NO, if not sure just ask.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Feb 07, 04:35 PM 2016
Hello Notto,

First few numbers from my live game today. Celtic 00 wheel.

1. 11 (37)
2. 5 (36)
3. 4 (35)
4. 16 (34)
5. 25 (33)
6. 33 (32)
7. 8 (31)
8. 18 (30)
9. 3 (29)
10. 7 (28)
11. 19 (27) stake x 1. +8.
12. 23 (26) stake x 1. +9 (+17)
13. 35 (25) stake x 1. +10 (+27)
14. 17 (24) stake x 1. +11 (+38)

Keeps winning.  :thumbsup: I think you are right. Taking close to 40 units on 00 is the best way.

cheers
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Wally Gator on Feb 07, 10:49 PM 2016
Quote from: wiggy on Feb 07, 04:35 PM 2016
Keeps winning.  :thumbsup: I think you are right. Taking close to 40 units on 00 is the best way.

@ Wiggy

Is there a reason you say "00 is the best way""? Just curious ....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 07, 10:51 PM 2016
Quote from: Wally Gator on Feb 07, 10:49 PM 2016


@ Wiggy

Is there a reason you say "00 is the best way""? Just curious ....

He means +40 on 00 is the best way on the 00 wheel. Where as +50 is the best on 0 wheel

He was talking about when to quit


He wasnt saying 00 was best. He meant win goal on that particular wheel
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 07, 10:55 PM 2016
Notto. Id like to say good work and thanks for your updates

You are a no bullshit kind of guy and your ktf method is a C.W.B

8)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 07, 11:17 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 07, 10:55 PM 2016
Notto. Id like to say good work and thanks for your updates

You are a no bullshit kind of guy and your ktf method is a C.W.B

8)

What does C.W.B. stand for?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 08, 03:07 AM 2016
Central Weather Bureau  >:D !
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 08, 03:08 AM 2016
Central Weather Bureau  >:D !
The Center for Wooden Boats....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Feb 08, 04:06 AM 2016
C.W.B. = Cool Way to Bet  :xd:

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 07, 10:51 PM 2016
He means +40 on 00 is the best way on the 00 wheel. Where as +50 is the best on 0 wheel

He was talking about when to quit


He wasnt saying 00 was best. He meant win goal on that particular wheel

Thanks for that RG, yes that's what I was meaning. Taking +40 on the 00 has worked great on my tests so far.

cheers
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: blueman on Feb 08, 04:58 AM 2016
Quote from: Plam on Feb 07, 05:21 PM 2016
FIGHTING-FUND:400

LOSS-LIMIT:25%
BOTTOM-LINE TARGET-5%
WIN GOALS-10%
---------------------------------
HAPPY-POINT TARGET-25%
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 08, 08:22 AM 2016
Anybody lost with this already? 
I did 8 sessions now. + 360

The funny thing is that I use rng.
Highest bet units was 3

:thumbsup:

Btw it could be more if I ktf and go a few more spins. But I just listen to my feeling at the moment.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 08, 09:20 AM 2016
Thats it Den

Take the early win, yes if you KTF could be more, but why not make loads of little wins often.

I always play RNG on the machine of death
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 08, 10:47 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 08, 09:20 AM 2016
Thats it Den

Take the early win, yes if you KTF could be more, but why not make loads of little wins often.

I always play RNG on the machine of death


Good day notto.

Ah yes the early win.
Attached are the live spins from my local B&M from earlier today.

The question for today is:
I always cover the 0 and 00 and do not take them down.
Hit 5 times in this sequence today.
Would you reduce your bet amount by 1 if you were say at +2 progression and the 0/00 hit?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 08, 10:51 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 08, 08:22 AM 2016
Anybody lost with this already? 
I did 8 sessions now. + 360

The funny thing is that I use rng.
Highest bet units was 3

:thumbsup:

Btw it could be more if I ktf and go a few more spins. But I just listen to my feeling at the moment.


Not yet, and like you I am now only playing with winnings from last week.

I have always said that player greed will be the biggest killer to this system.


-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: dennisbelle on Feb 08, 11:20 AM 2016
Any one have a problem getting that many bets (20+) down before the dealer waves you off saying "no more bets"?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RFMAXX on Feb 08, 12:11 PM 2016
No Computer soft touch terminals in Ur casino? Makes it easy to Track and to lay all bets within time
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 08, 12:20 PM 2016
Quote from: dennisbelle on Feb 08, 11:20 AM 2016
Any one have a problem getting that many bets (20+) down before the dealer waves you off saying "no more bets"?

Yep. I had that problem. So I tried rng fast spins. In 10 seconds I had my 10 spins. And then put your bets . On a hit rebet  and erase one. Works surprisingly very good.

I'm sure we can take many wins with this. But the question. ...how many busts are waiting us????? Cuz we need many sessions to recover from that
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: thelaw on Feb 08, 12:47 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 08, 12:20 PM 2016
Yep. I had that problem. So I tried rng fast spins. In 10 seconds I had my 10 spins. And then put your bets . On a hit rebet  and erase one. Works surprisingly very good.

I'm sure we can take many wins with this. But the question. ...how many busts are waiting us????? Cuz we need many sessions to recover from that

An RNG Destroyer?.............now that's a completely different animal!!! :thumbsup:

Wonder how much you could win before an online casino would cancel your account? :question:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 08, 01:05 PM 2016
Jackpot 247.com  8.2.16  KTF  +£42 #26   4th bet

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 12 36
2 29 35
3 22 34
4 1 33
5 25 32
6 3 31
7 15 30
8 27 29
9 11 28 stake
10 16 27 non-hit return
11 36 26 1 27 36 9
12 9 25 1 26 36 19
13 17 24 1 25 36 30
14 26 23 1 24 36 42
15 20 22 1
16 21 21 1
17 0 20 1
18 0 r 2
19 28 19 3
20 7 18 2
21 27 r 1
22 31 17 2
23 30 16 1
24 4 15 1
25 25 r 1
26 26 r 2
27 23 14 3
28 28 r 2
29 15 r 3
30 9 r 4
31 28 r 5
32 19 13 6
33 5 12 5
34 20 r 4
35 34 11 5
36 12 r 4
37 19 r 5
38 31 r 6
39 10 10 7
40 9 r 6
41 34
42 23
43 19
44 1
45 20
46 23
47 35
48 6
49 34
50 7
51 22
52 18
53 36
54 27
55 21
56 33
57 17
58 14
59 10
60 12
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 08, 01:17 PM 2016
Uhm don't want to crash the party but...I just had a bust.  :'(

Those them nrs kept repeating. And my bankroll finished b4 I could fight back.

Total -40 now

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 08, 03:25 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 08, 10:47 AM 2016

Good day notto.

Ah yes the early win.
Attached are the live spins from my local B&M from earlier today.

The question for today is:
I always cover the 0 and 00 and do not take them down.
Hit 5 times in this sequence today.
Would you reduce your bet amount by 1 if you were say at +2 progression and the 0/00 hit?

-Celtic

The only time theres a unit on 0/00 is if they have not been hit.
So in spins 11-20 the 00 would have a unit on it, after spin 14 no more betting zeros, if azero came now the prog  would +1
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 38
1 35 37
2 2 36
3 35 r
4 0 35
5 22 34
6 27 33
7 5 32
8 12 31
9 28 30 stake
10 26 29 non-hit return
11 23 28 1 29 36 7
12 20 27 1 28 36 15
13 33 26 1 27 36 24
14 0-0 25 1 26 36 34
15 6 24 1 25 36 45 should have stopped
16 28 r 1 24 0 21
17 25 23 2 48 72 45 again stop
18 27 r 1 23 0 22
19 33 r 2 46 0 -24
20 1 22 3 69 108 15
21 15 21 2 44 72 43
22 29 20 1 21 36 58
23 33 r 1 20 0 38
24 36 19 2 40 72 70
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JimmieB on Feb 09, 03:18 AM 2016
Had a blow out the other night as well, thing is though, if I had a bit more in my BR, it would have came back, not to my original BR, not far of it though, don’t let Denzsie’s & my own blow out put you off, this is a good system!!!

Brief summary, I was playing live online at Sky Casino on one of the Latvian wheels, the thing is I normally play the “UK” wheels available, first game of the night with a BR of 549 units (betting 10p with £54.90 in the bank)...first 10 spins, no repeats, spins 11-20, just the 5 non hits hit, (N,N,R,R,R,R,N,N,R,N), spins 21-26, just the one non hit, spin 22, damn repeats, my BR was done after spin 26, I had 160 units left, although, I kept watching, and, yip, you guessed it spins 27 to 34, 7 of the non hits hit out of 8, spin 28 was the only repeat, and I had my 15 non hits hit from spins 11-40 by spin 39, if I had the BR it would have been back up to 541units after spin 39, the highest level bet was 7.

Jim
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 09, 04:30 AM 2016
Let me throw this at you.
What is going to happen when you arrive at the wheel.
Do you know how many red you will get, same for all outside bets, you dont know.
The one thing you do know is that theres 37 non hit waiting for you.

Well you could say, Nottophammer, you dont know how,they are going to come. True.

But as you can see in spins 11-40 theres 15.73913 nonhit. Look in jackpot joy average doc. I have 3 avg doc's in total, they all show in spins 11-40 there is 15 point something.

If you look in KTF and where i posted before, jackpot joy 1st12#'s in Xspins theres the sheets, majority show in spins 11-40 it gets +0 or maybe +2, the odd one showing a -1 or 2.

So you/I have an idea what is going to come, unlike outside bets
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 09, 05:17 AM 2016
Yes, nicely said. Hopefully they will not put out Roulette games when we all attack them...  :question:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: blueman on Feb 09, 05:37 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 08, 01:17 PM 2016
Uhm don't want to crash the party but...I just had a bust.  :'(

Those them nrs kept repeating. And my bankroll finished b4 I could fight back.

Total -40 now

So do I. Select system, playing four days in +, and then came shit. My concentration falls after a while and the victory of greed.
Sorry, my english is Google :embarrassed:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 09, 06:03 PM 2016
Jackpot 247.com   KTF +£44  #16
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 10, 05:44 AM 2016
   jackpotjoy 10.2.16  KTF +£53  #19  12th bet of betting
1   8
2   31
3   24
4   12
5   11
6   20
7   22
8   27
9   1
10   2
11   4
12   20
13   33
14   11
15   18
16   23
17   30
18   7
19   12
20   1
21   3
22   19
23   27
24   12
25   14
26   4
27   24
28   1
29   28
30   35
31   24
32   18
33   9
34   25
35   15
36   33
37   25
38   16
39   15
40   6
41   13
42   35
43   25
44   15
45   6
46   14
47   12
48   4
49   30
50   7
51   35
52   35
53   30
54   14
55   16
56   20
57   8
58   21
59   9
60   32
   
61   34
62   6
63   20
64   2
65   4
66   18
67   9
68   22
69   13
70   27
71   1
72   17
73   3
74   12
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 10, 08:55 AM 2016
Quote from: thelaw on Feb 07, 02:53 PM 2016
To NH and everyone testing here:

Might be a good idea to keep a running total in units.

I've found that threads that keep this info up-to-date with testing, get a stronger response from others viewing the thread.

Just my $.02.

Keep up the great work-much appreciated :thumbsup:!!!

Date        win lose total
23.12.15 56
24.12.15 93
27.12.15 57
28.12.15 52
29.12.15 45
30.12.15 50
31.12.15 50
02.01.16 56
03.01.16 65
04.01.16 57
05.01.16 45
06.01.16 51
07.01.16 50
08.01.16 59
09.01.16 45
10.01.16 47
11.01.16 49
12.01.16 51
13.01.16 50
14.01.16 59
15.01.16 45
16.01.16 45
17.01.16 50
18.01.16 45
19.01.16 38
20.01.16 43
21.01.16 45
22.01.16 655
23.01.16 52
24.01.16 50
25.01.16 38
26.01.16 50
27.01.16 38
28.01.16 57
29.01.16 48
30.01.16 54
31.01.16 56
01.02.16 46
02.02.16 51
03.02.16 45
04.02.16 54
05.02.16 46
06.02.16 39
07.02.16 45
08.02.16 42
09.02.16 44
10.02.16 53

             2306 655 1651

Something like this, showing the 1 loss  :xd:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 10, 11:22 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 09, 06:03 PM 2016
Jackpot 247.com   KTF +£44  #16


-notto

Good day sir.

Would you please explain what the numbers represent at the bottom of each of the groups of 10 spins?
ie. 9/10  7+2  11+1  23-1  29/60

Thank You.
-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 10, 11:52 AM 2016
Sure
Have you looked in Jackpot joy average doc. Cell AI 68 shows the avg in spins 11-40, 30 spins.15.70212766 nonhit.

So the 1st 3 boxes of 4*10 cover spins 11-40, so each box of 10 could see 5 non hit. 5+5+5 = 15 in 30 spins like the avg in the doc shows.
On this game 9.2.16  the 1st 10 box spins 11-20 got 7 non hit 2 more than the avg of 5, so 7,+2
box covering spins 21-30 11+1, by spin 20 you could have 10 non hit, but we  see 11 have come, so 11+1.
Now this box covering spins 31-40 is where you see if 15 non hit  in 30 spins makes the avg,which we will get by adding the expected 15 non hit to the 1st 10 spins that show it got 9 non hit, so 9+15=24, this game got in spins 11-40 (30 spins) 14 non hit, so 23 -1.

Now we are getting really smart we keep records of games played so at the end of the 60 spins we can see in this game  it had 29 non hit,hit in 60 spins.
8.2.16 got 32/60
7.2.16 got 33/60
6.2.16 not enough spins
4.2.16 got 31/60
3.2.16       29/60
2.1.16       29/60
1.2.16       32/60
31.1.16      29/60
27.1.16      29/60    if you add these up and divide  avg for 60 spins 30.5 non hit.

All good info for watching the trot
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 10, 12:09 PM 2016
-notto

That explains a lot.

By the way still doing great with KTF and Don't Knock It
Still not using any other systems or MM methods.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Am up over $600 so far in less than two weeks.

The other day I was at the B&M and was not doing so well.
Around spin 40 I managed to get back to -$8
At that point I quit because I had been there over an hour and it always seems that the system either kicks in and pays off in the first 20-30 spins or else the progression is up and down all the time.
Besides being a hit and run player I do not chase losses.

Thank you again.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 10, 08:45 PM 2016
Went to the casino again today and played KTF.

Between this and Dont Knock It on DD I think the roulette gods were transpiring against me today.

On my 5th spin I was up $34 and was considering quitting right then.
I always preach hit and run if you have won 5 or 6 of the first few spins.
Come on the rolette gods told me you have just started and there has only been 1 repeat.
So on I went.

The gods rewarded me with two repeats in a row and I was down to -$35 right after taunting me to continue.
Nice I thought....the lying bastards were'nt trying to help me after all.

So I continued and 4 spins later I was back to +32 and what did I do................that's right I listened to that little voice again and still continued.
What the hell was I thinking.

Anyways I played two more spins and quit with +$44.

I am not sure if there is a moral here or not.
Maybe......."Do not bet money in a casino if you hear little voices in your head" ;D

I have attached the chart for this fiasco.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 11, 03:08 AM 2016
Hi Celts
1st 10 is 10/10, so expect 15 non hits in spins 11-40.
So you can see i've added countback from 39/40 spins, will help with watching the trot, the other trot to think about is the profit, watch see if its going up/down, remember the high.
Now spin 11, is the 11th non hit,on time. Spin 12,12th non hit(remember topic 12 unique, well here they are, so fast trot,no repeats).
Could say 12th non hit is just   a little early, so got to think repeat is not far away.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 11, 03:17 AM 2016
Oh dear repeat. So now we're going to KTF.
Up to 2 units, win.
So your high was +17, now back to +11.
Again looking at count back 13non hit is just early.

So should you sit it out and see what the trot is going to look like, I/we cant look into the future,but we can wait,if your on touch screen.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 11, 03:25 AM 2016
You keep talking about those 15 non hit and 15 hit between spin 11-40....

This is on average right? How many sessions you saw it was not like that?

I simply ask cuz I've got 2 busts now. So if we play virtual. .....track 10 spins...then wait for a clustered non hit or hit ....then go in for the opposite side.

Wouldn't that work and be safer?

(Just thinking out loud )
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 11, 03:41 AM 2016
So if you've played next 2 spins your +34. As this is 00 wheel and as said with Wiggy better to take or as near to $40/+40.
Now look at count back its showing the 15th non hit is early, you've only had 1 repeat, so if like me i would have sat out those 2 spins. Now i'd bet for the repeat, remember i've sat out at +11, win, +32.


Thats todays lesson.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 11, 04:06 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 11, 03:25 AM 2016
You keep talking about those 15 non hit and 15 hit between spin 11-40....

This is on average right? How many sessions you saw it was not like that?

I simply ask cuz I've got 2 busts now. So if we play virtual. .....track 10 spins...then wait for a clustered non hit or hit ....then go in for the opposite side.

Wouldn't that work and be safer?

(Just thinking out loud )
If you look at Jackpot joy average doc, you'll see in cell AI 68 15.70833333 this is spins 11-40. Its pretty constant. Of the 48 games i post KTF on, which is Jackpot247.com, theres only been 9 games where it does not get the 15 non hit in spins 11-40, those 9 games mean repeats

then wait for a clustered non hit or hit ....then go in for the opposite side This is watching the trot, like in Celts game, i would have gone for the repeat.
Wouldn't that work and be safer?  Watching the trot, After 1st 10 spins you know how many non hit to bet, so you do not need to bet, better to watch the trot, see how the trot is looking .Like in celts game we can see the non hits are fast, so a repeat is dare i say it due.
Remember its all abot 0X's then 1X's and then >1x's, thats all there is to roulette, So like the Guvnor Winkel says Watch the trot.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 11, 04:22 AM 2016
Ok watch the trot....
I'll check first 10 spins...
Then I wait a few clustered dominant side (non hit or repeats)
Now it's time to go in ......

I'll report back on this.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 11, 04:25 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 11, 04:06 AM 2016
due.


Notto. ......get ready mate......they coming at you soon... :xd:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 11, 06:22 AM 2016
Just tried online my State’s Lottery Multiwheelx8 RNG: BR 500

- 20  25  16  20  31  36  14  21  5  15 -
            13  23  18  28 - 537
- 12  12  13  33  22  15  20  4   33  35 -
   25  2  2  29  7  24  19 - 576
- 0  29  6  15  33  27  29  10  33  24 -
  28  32  3  20 - 610
- 5  3  33  0  16  26  14  32  11  27 -
  9  29  5  30  33  6  33  14  31  34  27  25  29  29  22  24  33  19  11  14  27  26  25 - Game Over
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 11, 09:25 AM 2016
+£34

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 34 36
2 27 35
3 24 34
4 26 33
5 36 32
6 6 31
7 1 30
8 15 29
9 18 28 stake
10 3 27 non-hit return
11 10 26 1 27 36 9
12 4 25 1 26 36 19
13 9 24 1 25 36 30 Remember this amount
14 9 r 1 24 0 6
15 24 r 2 48 0 -42
16 16 23 3 72 108 -6
17 7 22 2 46 72 20 here -10 on pre-vio us high
18 34 r 1 22 0 -2
19 24 r 2 44 0 -46
20 8 21 3 66 108 -4
21 15 r 2 42 0 -46
22 0 20 3 63 108 -1
23 3 r 2 40 0 -41
24 23 19 3 60 108 7
25 0 r 2 38 0 -31
26 23 r 3 57 0 -88
27 28 18 4 76 144 -20
28 5 17 3 54 108 34 so new high stop
29 5 r 2 34 0 0
30 27 r 3 51 0 -51
31 33 16 4 68 144 25
32 26 r 3 48 0 -23
33 20 15 4 64 144 57 stop, stop
34 32 14 3 45 108 120
35 29 13
36 3 r
37 13 12
38 25 11
39 19 10
40 35 9
41 13 r
42 2 8
43 0 r
44 36 r
45 25 r
46 9 r
47 30 7
48 1 r
49 22 6
50 4 r
51 13 r
52 31 5
53 26 r
54 23 r
55 20 r
56 13 r
57 31 r
58 0 r
59 9 r
60 19 r 32/60
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 11, 12:58 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 11, 09:25 AM 2016
+£34

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 34 36
2 27 35
3 24 34
4 26 33
5 36 32
6 6 31
7 1 30
8 15 29
9 18 28 stake
10 3 27 non-hit return
11 10 26 1 27 36 9
12 4 25 1 26 36 19
13 9 24 1 25 36 30 Remember this amount
14 9 r 1 24 0 6
15 24 r 2 48 0 -42
16 16 23 3 72 108 -6
17 7 22 2 46 72 20 here -10 on pre-vio us high
18 34 r 1 22 0 -2
19 24 r 2 44 0 -46
20 8 21 3 66 108 -4
21 15 r 2 42 0 -46
22 0 20 3 63 108 -1
23 3 r 2 40 0 -41
24 23 19 3 60 108 7
25 0 r 2 38 0 -31
26 23 r 3 57 0 -88
27 28 18 4 76 144 -20
28 5 17 3 54 108 34 so new high stop
29 5 r 2 34 0 0
30 27 r 3 51 0 -51
31 33 16 4 68 144 25
32 26 r 3 48 0 -23
33 20 15 4 64 144 57 stop, stop
34 32 14 3 45 108 120
35 29 13
36 3 r
37 13 12
38 25 11
39 19 10
40 35 9
41 13 r
42 2 8
43 0 r
44 36 r
45 25 r
46 9 r
47 30 7
48 1 r
49 22 6
50 4 r
51 13 r
52 31 5
53 26 r
54 23 r
55 20 r
56 13 r
57 31 r
58 0 r
59 9 r
60 19 r 32/60



-notto

I would have considered quitting at spin 13 but definitely would have quit at spin 17 with only two repeats in the last 17.

Because of quitting KTF after only 3 or 7 spins I would have then swithched over to playing Dont Knock It for the next 1/2 hour or so.

All the small wins do add up.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 11, 02:26 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 11, 12:58 PM 2016

-notto

I would have considered quitting at spin 13 but definitely would have quit at spin 17 with only two repeats in the last 17.

Because of quitting KTF after only 3 or 7 spins I would have then swithched over to playing Dont Knock It for the next 1/2 hour or so.

All the small wins do add up.

-Celtic


Strange I tried to edit my original post and was unable to do so.
Maybe Steve has changed that option.

Anyways, I ran the numbers and switching over to Dont Knock, as suggested above, I would have won another $15 quite easily and I would have still been out of the casino in under an hour.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 12, 01:00 AM 2016
Now just compare, Jackpot 247.com and yesterdays RNG

See spins11-20 7+2 on both. Spins 21-30 RNG +2, Jack247  +3

This why i stop at +38 on jackpot, just like on the RNG, have you learnt from 12 unique in Xspins how often those 1st 12 unique hit, lesson learnt for me.
Look at spins 21-23, same, look how early the 19th non hit is on both, so watch the trot.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 13, 05:08 AM 2016
KTF +£47
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 13, 07:06 AM 2016
should read 27/52,oops, but the avg is 30.5 in 60 spins, wonder if there had been more spins, would we get 3 more non hit in 8 spins?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 14, 04:52 AM 2016
KTF +45  #33
Day 50, 1 loss betting at the start a large number of pockets
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 14, 06:33 AM 2016
Look at those wins on your daily file  :love:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 14, 11:15 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 14, 06:33 AM 2016
Look at those wins on your daily file  :love:

Yep and his daily wins sheet is impressive too.

I have always said that the main thing to stress with KTF is knowing when to start your betting sequence.

Jumping around from method to method does not help your decisions.

I am still happy with KTF and Dont Knock It and have no intensions of trying anything else until they let me down which I do not see happening.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 14, 11:42 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 14, 11:15 AM 2016
.... Dont Knock It and have no intensions of trying anything else until they let me down which I do not see happening.

How you play Dont Knock?
I tried it on some spins, but am not getting positive results...
Maybe some tips...

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 14, 12:04 PM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Feb 14, 11:42 AM 2016
How you play Dont Knock?
I tried it on some spins, but am not getting positive results...
Maybe some tips...

Thanks

Check the Dont Knock It topic.
There is a thread dedicated to it.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 14, 01:16 PM 2016
So you just follow the rules?
No tweaks?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 14, 07:55 PM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Feb 14, 01:16 PM 2016
So you just follow the rules?
No tweaks?

That's it.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 15, 06:48 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 15.2.16   KTF +£50

If only the RNG machine of death played like this every day.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 15, 07:04 AM 2016
23*32*13

Now, we know and understand your sheet, except this mystic numbers...?

Thanks Notti!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 15, 07:08 AM 2016
Hey Notto,

I'm doing the new approach now. So far very good results.  Max bet so far is 3 units.

On my way to recover those 2 busts.

Thx mate , your effort is very much appreciated  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 15, 08:49 AM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Feb 15, 07:04 AM 2016
23*32*13

Now, we know and understand your sheet, except this mystic numbers...?

Thanks Notti!

There was another 10 numbers,but didn't want to start a new sheet. The #'s 31,5,0,23,0,30,9,5,32,21

So the 23 is the 32nd non hit, took 13 spins. You could have been betting 6 #'s for 13 spins.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 15, 08:51 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 15, 07:08 AM 2016
Hey Notto,

I'm doing the new approach now. So far very good results.  Max bet so far is 3 units.

On my way to recover those 2 busts.

Thx mate , your effort is very much appreciated  :thumbsup:
Hey Denzie, the new approach I don't seem to find it. Can you explain it a little simple? Or Notto maybe?

Hope you recover the 2 busts!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 15, 08:58 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Feb 15, 08:51 AM 2016
Hey Denzie, the new approach I don't seem to find it. Can you explain it a little simple? Or Notto maybe?

Hope you recover the 2 busts!

As always we wait our first 10 spins. But instead of starting to bet after that....I wait another 5 spins. If in those 5 spins I get :
4-5 repeaters then I bet the Unhit
4-5 unhitters then I bet the repeaters
If it's going side by side then I keep looking the trot till it's clear when the crossing should come.

Is it luck? No idea, I'll keep going till I know.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 15, 09:18 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 15, 08:58 AM 2016
As always we wait our first 10 spins. But instead of starting to bet after that....I wait another 5 spins. If in those 5 spins I get :
4-5 repeaters then I bet the Unhit
4-5 unhitters then I bet the repeaters
If it's going side by side then I keep looking the trot till it's clear when the crossing should come.

Is it luck? No idea, I'll keep going till I know.
Ok thanks. Really interesting aproach.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 15, 09:19 AM 2016
Thanks Notty!

I have make an observation which I think might be important, also:

- We are expecting 15 in 30 spins (11-40), so you marked 10's columns with 5+5+5
- In first 10 spins we get 9 numbers on the average, so I don't think it will "slow down" abruptly (from 9 till 5  >:D), but rather gradually

So I would go with 6+5+4 =15 which would make 9+6+5+4, or even 7+5+3 = 15 which would make nice 9+7+5+3 =24 in first 4x10's!

What do you think, Guvnor?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 15, 09:29 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 07, 08:07 AM 2016
Wow from the past
Main Roulette Board / Re: Have I figured something new out about roulette?
« on: March 05, 2014, 07:38:35 PM »
Wyldegibson.
No need to be sorry as any idea is worth seeing, you never know,the math people might have given you the answer you were looking for,the H.G.
The old Ausguy was liking it for a while, and he's not a bad old guy,lol RNGGGGGGGGGGG.

Here's some rng from today in ladbrokes. I'll place them in blocks of ten. Won £51.00 on repeats and new numbers to come.
11,17,12,26,25,30,19,24,10,4

16,23,29,21,30,21,13,14,11,23

24,1,11,1,28,32,22,29,10,32

30,23,3,11,25,34,32,33,0,16

28,35,13,31,0,10,26,26,3,3

34,24,22,30,5,23,17,14,31,9

28,9,4,21,24,0,4,28,31,12

0,14,34,32,23,29,26,19,8

But really forget all the outside bets, the casino loves people playing them. Remember when column3 is missing for 30 odd spins and black hitting for say 24 spins, its BOOM

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 11 36
2 17 35
3 12 34
4 26 33
5 25 32
6 30 31
7 19 30
8 24 29
9 10 28 stake
10 4 27 non-hit return
11 16 26 1 27 36 9
12 23 25 1 26 36 19
13 29 24 1 25 36 30
14 21 23 1 24 36 42


Not quite KTF but i'm on its case, but it would be +42 and go
Earlier post above for betting for a repeat. Below is todays #'s for Jackpot247.com, where whilst watching the spins/trot, you watch the previous 10 spins, m=miss, so wait 5 spins if no repeat, start to bet those previous numbers in the 10 spins. so 1st 10 spins are watched, 5 m, so bet those 9 #'s, 3 spins win.
30 6 m 27 m 20 m 20 r 21 m 31 m
29 25 m 5 m 12 r 32 14 m 5 m
7 31 m 7 m 14 3 25 m 0 m
24 35 m 6 r 36 8 9 r 23 m
34 1 m 34 36 33 7 0 m
24 12 9 16 19 27 30 30 8w
22 9 9 8 18 15 27 9
8 8 9w 0 12 33 3 5
10 16 12 8 9 14 32
36 9 35 11 28 3 21
(9/10)

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 15, 12:06 PM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Feb 15, 09:19 AM 2016
Thanks Notty!

I have make an observation which I think might be important, also:

- We are expecting 15 in 30 spins (11-40), so you marked 10's columns with 5+5+5
- In first 10 spins we get 9 numbers on the average, so I don't think it will "slow down" abruptly (from 9 till 5  >:D), but rather gradually

So I would go with 6+5+4 =15 which would make 9+6+5+4, or even 7+5+3 = 15 which would make nice 9+7+5+3 =24 in first 4x10's!

What do you think, Guvnor?
Our 1st 10 spins are 9.  9+15=24, so the expected amount of non hit at spin 40 is 24.
spins 11-20 got 8 non hit, so +3 if we split the 3 boxes of 10's to 5,5,5
spins 21-30 got 3 non hit, so +1,   5+5=10  we've had 11non hit +1
spins 31-40 got 5 non hit, so now 11+5= 16   so +1.

Now you mentioned 7,5,3   7 in spins11-20,  5 in spins in 21-30  and 3 in spins 31-40.
If you was to find the avg for non hit in spins 11-20, which i have done yes  its 7 then 5 and last 3. To me its to neat, why is it not 8,4,3. But look at todays sheet
8+3     Now avg 7 non hit  in spins 11-20 is +1  so already the non hits are infront, so now we expect 5 in spins 21-30, but as its +1 should we not expect to see only 4 non hit, to keep to avg.

11+1   Well 2 non hit straight away and avg needs to get back on track so needs only 2 more non hit in 8 spins, So should you
           not expect to see the repeats making an appearence. Ends +1  so if avg is to be expected  aren't we now -1 as it
           should now be +2. So to good to be true 7,5,3 is behind, if we except Avg then we expect 4 more non hit to get to 15
           non hit in 30 spins.
25+1   We get 5 non hit so +1
What we are doing is using average to help watch the trot. At spin 22 you've had 19 non hit, only 3 repeats, so i'd guess if Densie has watched the trot he would be betting the already hit
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 15, 03:43 PM 2016
Notto or other rng players...

When you press the spin button without placing a bet...you think the outcome would be different then when we actually place a bet ?

Just curious. I was playing your ktf today and I won +80 units. But of course I keep clicking to see what would happen.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 15, 06:49 PM 2016
Here are todays results of using a GUT trigger with KTF

Goal:
BR $100
Win five times.

I had $76 in profit in 9 spins and quit but did stick around to get a total of 40 spins on the sheet.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Wally Gator on Feb 15, 08:01 PM 2016
Celtic: are those 00 (double zero) for the 3rd number in the 1st column and 5th number in the 2nd column?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 15, 09:58 PM 2016
Quote from: Wally Gator on Feb 15, 08:01 PM 2016
Celtic: are those 00 (double zero) for the 3rd number in the 1st column and 5th number in the 2nd column?

-Wally

Yes they are. I only have access to an american wheel when playing live in my local B&M casino.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 16, 04:07 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 15, 03:43 PM 2016
When you press the spin button without placing a bet...you think the outcome would be different then when we actually place a bet ?

That would be believing in conspiracy theory...
I don't think they go so far....
It's also easy to check online when two players are playing on the same wheel (from different accounts, ofc.)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 16, 04:47 AM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Feb 16, 04:07 AM 2016
That would be believing in conspiracy theory...
I don't think they go so far....

Your probably right. It just feels bit weird depending on software. But the casino makes enough profit already so they don't need to cheat.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 16, 04:58 AM 2016
It can be different when you have to install Software on your comp to play (as I have to :().
Online you have up to 100 players on the same RNG wheel, so it is easy to check numbers with others.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 16, 05:21 AM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Feb 16, 04:58 AM 2016
It can be different when you have to install Software on your comp to play (as I have to :().
Online you have up to 100 players on the same RNG wheel, so it is easy to check numbers with others.

Those are the multiple player tables? How much time to place your bets?

If I play rng I always use the private sessions. There I can click as much and as fast as needed. With ktf I got some probs getting the bets down on time under 20 seconds.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 16, 05:32 AM 2016
On William Hill there are RNGs which are the same for everyone who log-in.
Very short time to place bets - under 15 secs.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 16, 08:32 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 16.2.16  KTF +£59  #12

Yes getting the units on could be a problem, but i don't as i push the button. Only thing is the RNG definetly plays different to airball.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 16, 08:53 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 16, 08:32 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 16.2.16  KTF +£59  #12

Only thing is the RNG definetly plays different to airball.

??
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 16, 09:07 AM 2016
Airball is supposedly classed a live spin, but in the bookies on the FOBT its RNG.

As RG called it the machine of death
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 16, 09:33 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 16 36
2 24 35
3 18 34
4 22 33
5 15 32
6 3 31
7 19 30
8 29 29
9 17 28 stake
10 7 27 non-hit return
11 24 r 1 27 0 -27
12 36 26 2 54 72 -9
13 25 25 1 26 36 1
14 24 r 1 25 0 -24
15 17 r 2 50 0 -74
16 20 24 3 75 108 -41
17 11 23 2 48 72 -17
18 28 22 1 23 36 -4
19 26 21 1 22 36 10
20 25 r 1 21 0 -11
21 15 r 2 42 0 -53
22 35 20 3 63 108 -8
23 34 19 2 40 72 24
24 14 18 1 19 36 41
25 12 17 1 18 36 59
26 24 r 59
27 28 r 59
28 0 16 59
29 16 59
30 24 59
31 28 59
32 21 59
33 25 59
34 6 59
35 35 59
36 36 59
37 8 59
38 24 59
39 11 59
40 14 59
41 24 59
42 27 59
43 25 59
44 32 59
45 6 59
46 12 59
47 14 59
48 8 59
49 23 59
50 12 59
51 20 59
52 32 59
53 17 59
54 31 59
55 3 59
56 20 59
57 35 59
58 8 59
59 8 59
60 3 59

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 16, 09:43 AM 2016
still using +1/-1

slower +1/-1             old+1/-1  using todays #'s

1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 3
2                                 2
1                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 3
2                                 2
1                                 1
                                   1
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 16, 10:03 AM 2016
Notto, was just wondering. ...

On 100 sessions.  Where we track the first 10 spins.....how many of those we get a repeat in our first 10 tracking spins?

I ask cuz mostly I get 1 or 2 repeaters.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 16, 10:08 AM 2016
The KTF results are kept in the Jackpot joy average doc.
Theres more games with 9/10 then 8/10 and only just behind is 10/10
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 16, 10:18 AM 2016
On a old average doc with 879 RNG games it goes like this for 10 spins
10/10  249
09/10  367
08/10  199
07/10  059
06/10  003
05/10  002

Jackpot 247 has not had any game lower than 8/10.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 16, 10:41 AM 2016
I was thinking of start betting straight off for a repeat. If we don't got a hit then we are -45. Which could be recovered by the real ktf.

If we win on spin 2 = + 35
spin 3 = + 33
Spin 4 = + 30
Spin 5 = + 26
Spin 6 = + 21
Spin 7 = + 15
Spin 8 = + 8
Spin 9 = +0
Spin 10 = - 9

Just thinking out loud here :P
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 16, 11:29 AM 2016
Denzie
You would need to win by sixth spin as jackpot247 has had 54 games and lost 13 to 10/10.
13*55=715
If we divide 715 by 41 winning games 715/41=17.43 round it up to £18.00
Sixth spin wins +21
Possibly better to go for the repeat after 5th spin as Jimmie B suggested
up to date avg doc
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 16, 11:52 AM 2016
Isn't it 45 x 13 = 585 /41 = 14,26
As we don't bet first spin

But it was just a thought. Let's leave it at your way  ;D
Sometimes thinking out loud helps
Thx again.  I'm gonna play it daily gut/ktf  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 16, 12:55 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 16, 09:43 AM 2016
still using +1/-1

slower +1/-1             old+1/-1  using todays #'s

1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 3
2                                 2
1                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 3
2                                 2
1                                 1
                                   1

-notto

I have not played with anything but +1/-1 but have wondered about trying different progressions.

I am doing quite well betting +1/-1 so why change until the need arises?
Must be human nature......It isn't broken but let's try and fix it anyways.  :lol:

I am only looking for a maximum of 5 wins in a session and usually quit before that ie. if I hit three numbers in a row I'm finished.

One question I would like to ask is what would be the maximum number of progressions you would go to?

Anyways, as always, you have given us food for thought.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 16, 09:52 PM 2016
Attached is my sheet for live play at Georgian Downs today.
Sorry for the mess.

This was the ultimate hit and run day.
3 spins win $51 and quit in under 10 minutes.

There is one thing to note on this sheet:
Look at the progression drop between spins 47 and 48
This was because after spin #47 the balance was back to a new high.
This same thing appears between spins 55 and 56.

-Celtic


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 17, 06:14 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  17.2.16   KTF  +£45  #13
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 17, 06:58 AM 2016
It's bit strange not more members try it or post here. This has really good results. It's first strategy that I ever played that's so fast and fun.

Maybe cuz it's RNG ? It feels bit uncomfortable to me also but hey...I'm winning

Maybe cuz they don't understand your
sheet?

Anyway good job guvnor  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 17, 09:15 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 17, 06:58 AM 2016
It's bit strange not more members try it or post here. This has really good results. It's first strategy that I ever played that's so fast and fun.

Maybe cuz it's RNG ? It feels bit uncomfortable to me also but hey...I'm winning

Maybe cuz they don't understand your
sheet?

Anyway good job guvnor  :thumbsup:

I agree wholeheartedly.

If not for notto and Winkel's GUT I would have probably given up roulette with it's +5% HE on the American Wheel and gone back to Blackjack with <1% HE.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 18, 08:53 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com  18.2.16   KTF  +56 #36

On the sheet you can see extra spins, the show aired nearly 3 hrs, usually we only get 60 spins if lucky.
But as you can see by Keeping the Faith it gets to +56.
Those early repeats can be killers.

In the game with the extra spins,you can see why i say as soon as you get the win you want, go to another table, be in/on a completely new wheel with a new 37 numbers DUE.  Look at how many repeats, 5, the expected 5, but as they hit in a block those repeats make it hard to keep the prog low.
Think about it 27 numbers is 1/3 on/or there abouts, Dont the horses lose at these prices.

So move to another wheel avoid those extra spins,   You could still get the same sort of game on the new wheel, but you are now trot watchers
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 18, 10:57 AM 2016
Hey Notto,

I'm playing this on a daily basis. And this is truly a gift from heaven. Thx thx thx  :thumbsup:

I keep all my sheets just as you do. After each session I evaluate how to play best.
Right now the safest is to get a few repeaters after our 10 spins. Those are so easy . But on the other hand going in for the unhit right away after our 10 spins didn't lose also. Just that it needs more progression. Anyway its all good and the br loves it.

My 2 earlier busts didn't count as I played them wrong. I realised that after look at them again. So my fault.

Sometimes I stop after 1 or 2 hits and reset it all. All up to my feeling.  Getting close to 1000 units mate  ;)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 18, 11:26 AM 2016
Hey guys. Are we doing +1 -1 ? Thx
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 18, 11:42 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 18, 10:57 AM 2016
Hey Notto,

I'm playing this on a daily basis. And this is truly a gift from heaven. Thx thx thx  :thumbsup:

I keep all my sheets just as you do. After each session I evaluate how to play best.
Right now the safest is to get a few repeaters after our 10 spins. Those are so easy . But on the other hand going in for the unhit right away after our 10 spins didn't lose also. Just that it needs more progression. Anyway its all good and the br loves it.

My 2 earlier busts didn't count as I played them wrong. I realised that after look at them again. So my fault.

Sometimes I stop after 1 or 2 hits and reset it all. All up to my feeling.  Getting close to 1000 units mate  ;)


- Denzie

Just stick to the plan  and watch the trot.
I believe that I was overthinking this and using GUT but discovered it is not necessary to use GUT to start betting as much as it is necessary to understand GUT which helps you to understand and read the trot.

I think this is the first time I have seen resetting mentioned in this thread.
If the trot is not going well that is the only thing to do in my opinion.

It gets to the point where you begin to wonder if you will ever lose doesn't it?

This is the only way I am playing roulette now and I do not even check other methods out out.
I guess it depends on what you are gambling for in the first place.

Above you said you had been playing wrong and that is why you lost.
What were you doing wrong?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 18, 11:43 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 18, 11:26 AM 2016
Hey guys. Are we doing +1 -1 ? Thx

Yep
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 18, 11:46 AM 2016
-notto

Were extra spins on todays sheet done right after the first 60?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: blueman on Feb 18, 11:51 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 18, 11:43 AM 2016
Yep

C/P reply 9
When you lose, you bet +1=2 on all unhit numbers, if lose again, then +1=3 units on all unhit numbers .
On hit, you take of winning number and -1 on all unhit numbers.



Denzie, that's it? Easy to play.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 18, 11:55 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 18, 11:42 AM 2016

- Denzie

Just stick to the plan  and watch the trot.
I believe that I was overthinking this and using GUT but discovered it is not necessary to use GUT to start betting as much as it is necessary to understand GUT which helps you to understand and read the trot.

I think this is the first time I have seen resetting mentioned in this thread.
If the trot is not going well that is the only thing to do in my opinion.

It gets to the point where you begin to wonder if you will ever lose doesn't it?

This is the only way I am playing roulette now and I do not even check other methods out out.
I guess it depends on what you are gambling for in the first place.

Above you said you had been playing wrong and that is why you lost.
What were you doing wrong?

-Celtic

Yeah my results are better without the gut involved. But the gut/ktf probably gonna get a bust faster. That's what my feeling tell me.
But your right as GUT let us see the trot better.

I'm sure it will lose sometimes...but the profits are way more then our losses. And not to forget it's fun and fast to play.

What I was doing wrong? Well it was the very first sessions I played this.  One bust happen cuz I mix unhit and repeated up. I didn't properly fill in my sheet. Stupid mistake. Second bust I noticed that if I click rebet...the unit size sometimes go back to 1. I mean I just lost putting 3u on each nr. Lose. Click rebet and only 1u was placed. By the time I noticed I couldn't get back to recover. It does that sometimes. No idea why. But I got my eyes on it now.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 18, 11:57 AM 2016
Quote from: blueman on Feb 18, 11:51 AM 2016
C/P reply 9
When you lose, you bet +1=2 on all unhit numbers, if lose again, then +1=3 units on all unhit numbers .
On hit, you take of winning number and -1 on all unhit numbers.



Denzie, that's it? Easy to play.

Yep
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 18, 12:08 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 18, 11:55 AM 2016
Yeah my results are better without the gut involved. But the gut/ktf probably gonna get a bust faster. That's what my feeling tell me.
But your right as GUT let us see the trot better.

I'm sure it will lose sometimes...but the profits are way more then our losses. And not to forget it's fun and fast to play.

What I was doing wrong? Well it was the very first sessions I played this.  One bust happen cuz I mix unhit and repeated up. I didn't properly fill in my sheet. Stupid mistake. Second bust I noticed that if I click rebet...the unit size sometimes go back to 1. I mean I just lost putting 3u on each nr. Lose. Click rebet and only 1u was placed. By the time I noticed I couldn't get back to recover. It does that sometimes. No idea why. But I got my eyes on it now.

The main reason I used GUT was the lower betting amounts .ie 17 instead of 29 units when you start to betting and when you do hit your profits for that round are higher. Then again there are also 12 less numbers to hit. There again this was overthinking on my part and not really necessary.

Your statement that wins are more than losses is so true.
Do you set a stop loss? If so what is it?

Have a good day.
-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 18, 12:14 PM 2016
Around 400 .... you never know the rfh is there. If it isn't fixed by then...give that session to the casino.

Don't forget the casino has 2 mighty weapons. The house edge. Very dangerous.
And the weak human mind. If you not control yourself and keep going you can lose all your profit in 1 fast session.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 18, 12:23 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 18, 11:46 AM 2016
-notto

Were extra spins on todays sheet done right after the first 60?

-Celtic

Yes, got 81 spins today. So i carried on the next game down, just to use the spins, like i say as soon as you've made your amount, go to another wheel, the 21 numbers show its better to jump go to another table, or wait till all 37 numbers have been hit. Personally i'd go to another machine in another shop. If i stay on the same machine it always plays different,remember i'm on RNG when playing. I'm only recording Jackpot247.com for the numbers as its on after midnight and need to sleep for work, you bet if i sign up it would be the night it wont win.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 18, 01:12 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 18, 12:23 PM 2016
... you bet if i sign up it would be the night it wont win.

I'm sure you'll win. Wanna bet?  ;)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 18, 01:30 PM 2016
Now i've bought Jackpot joy avg doc up todate.
Why is the Avg doc so useful,
1 it gives the avg for non hit to come in
2 it shows max spin for the non hit to come in.
3 This is your part, how you bet.

What about, you do the waiting game, you just watch how the non hit repeat.    So to day 11th spin 10th non hit, now your just watching,playing GUT really, now next spin repeat, next spin repeat.
What does avg doc say for the 11th non hit. Yesterday max 3 spins, avg to hit 1.392,(2), so now a decision,its missed the avg 2, its max is 3, so if you bet you lose today, but the bet is not over you can increase the units, in the betting shop i could increase the unit to 4, and win.
But tomorrow you have to remember its max is now 4 spins.

Its just nice to know non hits avg and max.
Another example of the waiting game i'd hope not to be betting in spins 51-70 i'd like to have made the units and be in another shop.
The 30th non hit is in at spin 50. Now what is max for the 31st non hit, 13 yesterday, avg 4.185 (5) spins. Now your watching, 5 spins come and its not in, we know the max and avg, so its missed its avg, so now its will the max increase? Now on RNG i can bet those 7 non hit for 20 spins, depending on where your playing, how does the increment of chips work, with 5 spins gone a possible 8 more spins, so do you bet or wait some more.

Well it took 13 spins, its max in the doc.

Its just another way to watch the game.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 18, 01:43 PM 2016
Why build an avg doc it helps me with KTF and the trot. I can't wait to get to 100 games, why

Well the average over the 100 cells is a static average calculated at a single entry point (the end of the data run in this case) whereas an average taken after collection of 100+1 cells and recalculate the average after dropping the very first cell is a dynamic average function of your cells, and show better and clearer the distribution movement of the data.
Very different results  :wink:

The paragraph above is from Chrisbis, thanks.
So i'll keep on building past the 100 games,but also just have a changing 100 games, and then compare the 2.
Will the avg change much,i dont know, but he who waits.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 18, 08:04 PM 2016
im going through zumma checkin out those "repeaters"

the more i see this the more i see KTF works well also

wait for 10 hits, bet the other 26 numbers with a +1 -1

only way to really lose big is if its repeater after repeater, which doesnt happen either

good work man

i see absolutely no reason why this method is not good to have in the arsenal

as Tamino says, if u want to dance you have to pay the fiddler
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 19, 05:14 AM 2016
jackpotjoy 247.com  KTF +29 #9

Thought i'd show the sheet today as when recording the spins to the sheet,like denzie could see that this was going to be a hard win.
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 27 36
2 17 35
3 17 r
4 5 34
5 25 33
6 13 32
7 1 31
8 13 r
9 33 30 stake
10 15 29 non-hit return
11 33 r 1 29 0 -29
12 16 28 2 58 72 -15
13 7 27 1 28 36 -7
14 22 26 1 27 36 2
15 25 r 1 26 0 -24
16 8 25 2 52 72 -4
17 24 24 1 25 36 7
18 17 r 1 24 0 -17
19 35 23 2 48 72 7
20 5 r 1 23 0 -16
21 25 r 2 46 0 -62
22 5 r 3 69 0 -131
23 0 22 4 92 144 -79
24 16 r 3 66 0 -145
25 34 21 4 88 144 -89
26 15 r 3 63 0 -152
27 33 r 4 84 0 -236
28 28 20 5 105 180 -161
29 2 19 4 80 144 -97
30 6 18 3 57 108 -46
31 34 r 2 36 0 -82
32 7 r 3 54 0 -136
33 13 r 4 72 0 -208
34 3 17 5 90 180 -118
35 15 r 4 68 0 -186
36 31 16 5 85 180 -91
37 0 r 4 64 0 -155
38 11 15 5 80 180 -55
39 9 14 4 60 144 29
40 35 r 3 42 0 -13
41 18 13 4 56 144 75
42 25 r 3
43 26 12 4
44 28 r 3
45 25 r 4
46 29 11 5
47 32 10 4
48 13
49 3
50 27
51 7
52 1
53 7
54 29
55 14
56 5
57 1
58 30
59 32
60 32

61 18
62 10
63 22
64 34
65 31
66 20
67 8


We see its 8/10  so we expect at spin 40 to see 23 non hit have come, the avg, the avg doc, says, 15 in 30 spins, spins 11-40.
Its a repeat, happens but +1, now 2units win. Another 2 wins +2, so we KTF.
Watching the trot and the profit trot at spin 19 we are back to the previous high, i would stop and go to another table/shop, no damage done.
But if you KTF what happens, a rollercoaster ride, look at the prog 3,4,3,4,3,4,5, be better if was 1,2,1,2 that block of repeat is the problem,spin 30 has KTF -46, could walk here only yesterdays winnings gone.

But we want to see KTF,spin 30 is 19 non hit so 4 more needed for the 15 in 30, look at the prog again its like earlier 5,4,5,4, another block of repeats, we've only had a block fo 3 nonhit spins spins 28,29,30.
Spin 31 place 2 units if it had won be nice back to 1 unit, but another block of repeats, you had your chance to be on another wheel, so spin34 is 20th non hit, 3 more in 6 spins for the 15 non hit, well spin 39 has the 23rd non hit the 15, its also +29, STOP.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 19, 05:28 AM 2016
Hey Notto ,

For me it would be not to bad. I love to see a repeater after our 10 spins. Then I got 3 wins so I probably leave . If for some reason I don't leave. Then I got a repeater again.  Followed by 2 unhits..there I'm really sure I would leave. If I'm around +30 I mostly stop. But I finish each game virtually to see what would happen.

This would be a stressful session though if you kept going.  But no harm in losing a few units though. Can't win them all. Or can we ?

:)

Also we get profit and then dd...again and again.  I would take the little profit at some point and stop. Then think damn that was a hard session but hey ...we made it
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 19, 10:01 AM 2016
Question for all testers. ...

We know on average we get 15/15.
Did someone got more repeaters then unhitters?  I didn't so far.
I'm just curious
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 19, 10:58 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 19, 10:01 AM 2016
We know on average we get 15/15.

:question:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 19, 12:00 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 19, 10:01 AM 2016
Question for all testers. ...

We know on average we get 15/15.
Did someone got more repeaters then unhitters?  I didn't so far.
I'm just curious


Yes, several times, but fortunately it was after I had stopped betting and was just collecting additional numbers for reference and study at home later.

Take a look at nottos numbers for today. The 50-60 column would be a killer if you were betting but there again watching the trot it is warning you before hand that something is coming.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: bbb128 on Feb 19, 12:15 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 05, 05:55 AM 2016
Now i was a naughty boy at school, when at school,so you will understand i missed out the maths.
With my cse in maths, not O level or A level, so when a math guy throws Z score, what does it mean.

Am i going to sit in the betting shop playing on the machine of death working out Z scores, come on, Roulette is a game of chance.

To me i want something that is simple, not working out formulas, i'll bliss fully play the non hit of the wheel, start with 37, after 10 spins away goes nottop hammer betting the remaining non hit, 5 some times 12 spins later out the door +50 or as near to the +50

:thumbsup: LOL Bro .. from SG? playing at RWS or MBS?
i am playing a method that is almost smiliar
i wait for  numbers not to repeat before i start betting on the numbers to repeat
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 19, 01:21 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 19, 05:14 AM 2016
jackpotjoy 247.com  KTF +29 #9

Thought i'd show the sheet today as when recording the spins to the sheet,like denzie could see that this was going to be a hard win.
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 27 36
2 17 35
3 17 r
4 5 34
5 25 33
6 13 32
7 1 31
8 13 r
9 33 30 stake
10 15 29 non-hit return
11 33 r 1 29 0 -29
12 16 28 2 58 72 -15
13 7 27 1 28 36 -7
14 22 26 1 27 36 2
15 25 r 1 26 0 -24
16 8 25 2 52 72 -4
17 24 24 1 25 36 7
18 17 r 1 24 0 -17
19 35 23 2 48 72 7
20 5 r 1 23 0 -16
21 25 r 2 46 0 -62
22 5 r 3 69 0 -131
23 0 22 4 92 144 -79
24 16 r 3 66 0 -145
25 34 21 4 88 144 -89
26 15 r 3 63 0 -152
27 33 r 4 84 0 -236
28 28 20 5 105 180 -161
29 2 19 4 80 144 -97
30 6 18 3 57 108 -46
31 34 r 2 36 0 -82
32 7 r 3 54 0 -136
33 13 r 4 72 0 -208
34 3 17 5 90 180 -118
35 15 r 4 68 0 -186
36 31 16 5 85 180 -91
37 0 r 4 64 0 -155
38 11 15 5 80 180 -55
39 9 14 4 60 144 29
40 35 r 3 42 0 -13
41 18 13 4 56 144 75
42 25 r 3
43 26 12 4
44 28 r 3
45 25 r 4
46 29 11 5
47 32 10 4
48 13
49 3
50 27
51 7
52 1
53 7
54 29
55 14
56 5
57 1
58 30
59 32
60 32

61 18
62 10
63 22
64 34
65 31
66 20
67 8


We see its 8/10  so we expect at spin 40 to see 23 non hit have come, the avg, the avg doc, says, 15 in 30 spins, spins 11-40.
Its a repeat, happens but +1, now 2units win. Another 2 wins +2, so we KTF.
Watching the trot and the profit trot at spin 19 we are back to the previous high, i would stop and go to another table/shop, no damage done.
But if you KTF what happens, a rollercoaster ride, look at the prog 3,4,3,4,3,4,5, be better if was 1,2,1,2 that block of repeat is the problem,spin 30 has KTF -46, could walk here only yesterdays winnings gone.

But we want to see KTF,spin 30 is 19 non hit so 4 more needed for the 15 in 30, look at the prog again its like earlier 5,4,5,4, another block of repeats, we've only had a block fo 3 nonhit spins spins 28,29,30.
Spin 31 place 2 units if it had won be nice back to 1 unit, but another block of repeats, you had your chance to be on another wheel, so spin34 is 20th non hit, 3 more in 6 spins for the 15 non hit, well spin 39 has the 23rd non hit the 15, its also +29, STOP.


WOW we have not seen a tough on like this in a while but it is still doable.
You may not win much but you at least you did not bust out.

Look at the count summation after 20 betting spins----- 11+1
You'd have to be nuts to continue betting past that point.

I think todays numbers definitely illustrate the importance of following the trot.

For those trying to follow this thread and having trouble understanding it I would have to say that you need to read the thread from page one and also check out the Jackpot Joy and GUT threads.
With this knowledge you will not need any tweaks and when I thought I had a tweak it almost cost me $450.
The only thing that saved me was the fact that I actually started betting at the wrong point. -Remember that Denzie?---
I learned my lesson.

So, remember:

-No tweaks unless approved by the great and powerfull notto-


KTF has a steep learning curve but if you stick with it you will not be sorry.

Good luck
-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Feb 19, 06:27 PM 2016
Hi guys
Love the forum.
I've just started testing KTF.
First game plus 50u. Spin 18.
Question.
For obvious betting reasons I'm using a roulette table (BVs own) so theirs no time limit. Once I've finished the game surely I can just reset, close down etc and restart a new game. Fresh numbers etc.
I've no experience with this type of table.
I'm normally using live dealers etc though using this method it's not possible for me.
I've always been uneasy playing on computer spun table's.

Thanks again every one for a great forum.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 19, 07:59 PM 2016
Quote from: spartanrules on Feb 19, 06:27 PM 2016

Question.
For obvious betting reasons I'm using a roulette table (BVs own) so theirs no time limit. Once I've finished the game surely I can just reset, close down etc and restart a new game. Fresh numbers etc.

Good Day Spartan,

On several occasions what I have done is after quitting one session just use the last 10 numbers spun as your first ten new spins and start again.
Worked for me but as a hit and run player I do not do this often as I like to come in, study the marquee numbers, start betting and be off the table in approx. 1/2 hour.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 19, 08:06 PM 2016
i tried this on sun palace rng fun money.....it came out positive at the end but i did not have the warm fuzzy feeling

im afraid that those of us in the US facing side do not have a good rng option

one: our government wont allow online gaming except for NJ and Nevada
two: the casinos willing to give us RNG i do not know if the rng is fair and random

can the casinos manipulate the rng software?

no good feeling here
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 19, 08:18 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 19, 08:06 PM 2016
i tried this on sun palace rng fun money.....it came out positive at the end but i did not have the warm fuzzy feeling


Was this Euro ar American wheel?
Are you able to upload the numbers?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 19, 08:28 PM 2016
euro rng

sun palace casino

part of mainstreet group

they are supposedly accredited..........wizard says nothing to fear

but i just dont get the warm fuzzy fairness feeling
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Proofreaders2000 on Feb 19, 09:22 PM 2016
...but i just don't get the warm fuzzy fairness feeling-RG

Stay away from Main Street Group casinos.

Sun Palace still owes me $29.20 from October 2015 :q

They told me they sent my winnings twice in the mail....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 19, 09:29 PM 2016
Quote from: Proofreaders2000 on Feb 19, 09:22 PM 2016
...but i just don't get the warm fuzzy fairness feeling-RG

Stay away from Main Street Group casinos.

Sun Palace still owes me $29.20 from October 2015 :q

They told me they sent my winnings twice in the mail....

Not surprised.

No good rng US facing id say.....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 20, 06:37 AM 2016
Myself I don't get that warm fuzzy feeling.
But I've been playing the ktf on rng daily now with amazing results. So my feeling getting better and better. But I not need it to be to warm....we need to stay focused so the rfh doesn't fool us. ;)

I don't go for +50 anymore. I just reset after a new high. Max progression I got is 3 u .
And after a new high I watch the trot. If I get a lot of repeaters. ...I go in again.

I don't get close to bust. As I said...if that rfh comes and you recover almost. ...just take the loss and reset.

Very very very solid method  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 20, 07:18 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 1 36
2 34 35
3 2 34
4 8 33
5 15 32
6 8 r
7 4 31
8 14 30
9 29 29 stake
10 2 r non-hit return
11 31 28 1 29 36 7
12 7 27 1 28 36 15
13 32 26 1 27 36 24
14 34 r 1 26 0 -2
15 33 25 2 52 72 18
16 24 24 1 25 36 29
17 7 r 1 24 0 5
18 15 r 2 48 0 -43
19 22 23 3 72 108 -7
20 34 r 2 46 0 -53
21 4 r 3 69 0 -122
22 0 22 4 92 144 -70
23 24 r 3 66 0 -136
24 35 21 4 88 144 -80
25 28 20 3 63 108 -35
26 7 r 2 40 0 -75
27 4 r 3 60 0 -135
28 23 19 4 80 144 -71
29 5 18 3 57 108 -20
30 25 17 2 36 72 16
31 34 r 1 17 0 -1
32 35 r 2 34 0 -35
33 23 r 3 51 0 -86
34 23 r 4 68 0 -154
35 22 r 5 85 0 -239
36 3 16 6 102 216 -125
37 17 15 5 80 180 -25
38 13 14 4 60 144 59 stop
39 15 r 3 59
40 21 13 4 59
41 0 r 3 59
42 31 r 4
43 27 12 5
44 7 r 4
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60

Jackpot  247.com 20.02.16   KTF   +59   #13   the   15th   non hit.
Look at yesterday and today’s games, see how similar, and look at the progression.
At spin 16 you are +29 what we took yesterday as the trot was choppy, also you’ve had 5 non hit in 6 spins, count back shows the 13th non hit is early, so Like Winkel says  the decision is yours, me I’d stop betting and watch to see if there is repeats,
Now if you think there’s too many non-hit, you could bet the 13 one hit, if you did you’d be going to another table +52.
But we don’t  this is KTF, we have the faith, we now would have liked to taken that +29 it’s a choppy ride, at least we’re back in profit spin 30 +16.
Is it not better from experience to jump?
If there is a compulsive gambler in you, then you press on, you know there’s been 20 non-hit and expect another 3 non-hit to show in spins 31-40, the progression is down to 1 unit, nice, you press on the progression is going up, what did count back show the 20th was early, should have waited, but the roulette god favours you spin 38 +59, now run.
Just like yesterday and other days from memory, I MUST WATCH THE TROT.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JimmieB on Feb 20, 07:49 AM 2016
@Denzie,

Out of interest, what RNG are you using?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 20, 10:39 AM 2016
Impressive method! I have also started to test it. Today I was lazy so I collected the 10 numbers and started to bet with 1 unit on the remaining 27 numbers.

I did not remove any numbers and just continued betting until one of the 10 numbers repeated. What happened I earned 100 units. Impressive!

Has someone done some similar thing?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 20, 01:05 PM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Feb 20, 10:39 AM 2016
Impressive method! I have also started to test it. Today I was lazy so I collected the 10 numbers and started to bet with 1 unit on the remaining 27 numbers.

I did not remove any numbers and just continued betting until one of the 10 numbers repeated. What happened I earned 100 units. Impressive!

Has someone done some similar thing?

Hold on a minute, first you said you were betting on the 27 unhit numbers and then you said you were betting for repeats of the first 10 numbers.
Please clarify how you were betting.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 20, 01:24 PM 2016
Sorry, I will try to explain:
First I collected 10 numbers. Then I started to bet on the unhit 27 numbers until 1 number  of the 10 numbers I collected did a repeat. Then I stopped. So I won around 10 straight -> 100 units.

I was just lazy and playing around  8)
I think I will try to play around with gr8players progression and see what happens..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 20, 01:26 PM 2016
just be careful tuddilue, sometimes those 10 numbers will repeat 3 times in a row....so just be aware
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 20, 01:28 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 20, 01:26 PM 2016
just be careful tuddilue, sometimes those 10 numbers will repeat 3 times in a row....so just be aware
Yes I understand that. But maybe a small progression will fix it. I mean I just need 3 wins in a row to recover...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 20, 01:51 PM 2016
Agree
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Feb 20, 02:07 PM 2016
Still testing.
Must admit I get nervous though if I try and obtain to much profit.
Last game I was 30u up. Thought ok that's good enough.
Always the case you think you're go for a little more and wish you never did.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 06:03 AM 2016
Todays win registry has been added
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 07:07 AM 2016
Okay i see a few people have looked at the avg doc.

Now its my morning for a dig at the math.

Todays sheet not put up yet. 1st 10 spins 8/10.

So if we play the waiting game, waiting for the repeats to happen,we get spins 11-14,4 non hit, so would KTF watchers jump?, now the wait R,R
we look at the doc and before up dating today we would have seen max for the 13th non-hit is 3, avg to come in 1.4 spins.
Well 2 spins not come, max 3, like Winkel says decision time, if we bet and lose be -25, plus the unit, will bet 50, if wins be -3.
So if your waiting why not wait the 3 spins if it came in you have not lost anything, but then bet, it wins, so now max has gone up to 4 spins after 59 games.

You are not betting blindly, just using avg.

Is using avg this way so wrong, you might sit a 37 spin cycle out without even making a bet. The averages dont change everyday, but some max spins go up, but like said not every day.

The 13 th non-hit has 59 results
42  1st spin
9    2nd spin          so in the waiting game, waiting to see if came in in avg 2 spins would have waited 51 times, won 7 times
7    3rd spin           7*11= +77  lost today  77-25= +52
1    4th spin


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 07:22 AM 2016
Know the comments are with hindsight but this is how you need to be thinking,watching, using as much info as you can, haven't even looked at countback, a bit more info. Don't/cant think then don't play, the math will get you >:D
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 22 36
2 10 35
3 11 34
4 29 33
5 23 32
6 22 r
7 17 31
8 18 30
9 18 r stake
10 14 29 non-hit return
11 30 28 1 29 36 7
12 27 27 1 28 36 15
13 31 26 1 27 36 24
14 36 25 1 26 36 34 should stop
15 14 r 1 25 0 9 stop take the win watch trot
16 27 r 2 50 0 -41 avg not in
17 23 r 3 75 0 -116 max to date
18 9 24 4 100 144 -72 bet,win
19 14 r 3 72 0 -144
20 5 23 4 96 144 -96
21 9 r 3 69 0 -165
22 8 22 4 92 144 -113
23 30 r 3 66 0 -179
24 32 21 4 88 144 -123
25 5 r 3 63 0 -186
26 13 20 4 84 144 -126
27 16 19 3 60 108 -78
28 28 18 2 38 72 -44
29 3 17 1 18 36 -26
30 32 r 1 17 0 -43
31 11 r 2 34 0 -77
32 9 r 3 51 0 -128
33 36 r 4 68 0 -196
34 17 r 5 85 0 -281
35 11 r 6 102 0 -383
36 34 16 7 119 252 -250
37 1 15 6 96 216 -130
38 29 r 5 75 0 -205
39 8 r 6 90 0 -295
40 32 r 7 105 0 -400
41 11 r 8 120 0 -520
42 18 r 9 135 0 -655
43 20 14 10 150 360 -445
44 20 r 9 126 0 -571
45 0 13 10 140 360 -351
46 3 r 9 117 0 -468
47 6 12 10 130 360 -238
48 27 r 9 108 0 -346
49 35 11 10 120 360 -106
50 0 r 9 99 0 -205
51 15 10 10 110 360 45 stop
52 2 9 9 90 324 279
53 1 r 8 72 0 207
54 28 r 9 81 0 126
55 8 r 10 90 0 36
56 25 8 11 99 396 333
57 6 r 10 80 0 253
58 10 r 11 88 0 165
59 3 r 12 96 0 69
60 8 r 13 104 0 -35
-35
61 35 r 14 112 0 -147
62 26 7 15 120 540 273
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 21, 08:08 AM 2016
To play ktf or to play for repeats. That is the question

.........
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 08:12 AM 2016
Or the waiting game
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 08:23 AM 2016
The waiting game
Think about it, whilst your hawking, what is mr average doing and i don't mean JOE.

Your double street, whats the avg for a single dozen to repeat, lets say its 6 so whilst hawking you see at one of the tables dozen 2 has hit for 6, would you now feel you could bet the 2nd dozen as its past its avg to come in, what you'd need to know is whats its max to come in, so would waiting for its avg in-still the confidence to bet it
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 21, 08:24 AM 2016
.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 08:25 AM 2016
would be with that lady at the wheel
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 09:00 AM 2016
Signing out soccer
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Feb 21, 06:18 PM 2016
Just checking in on this method.
Been playing for a few days now. Last session this evening made 195 units for around 1 hour an 30 mins play.
What I tend to do is try not to go into to many spins. Get your 10 unique and literally just spin another 4 or 6.
That's it. Reset and play again.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 06:32 PM 2016
Exactly
Remember that 50/60 is only an example of if you had to keep on playing,KTF
Watch that trot,like Azim said practice,practice. Keep in mind the avg for non-hit,try to remember what the max non-hit could take.
You watch the trot of 0x and 1x +>1x, watch the profit trot, remember the last high, you got to be watching.
Have you used countback.

Nice to see +195

Keep up the good work
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 21, 06:50 PM 2016
off hand the average hits in 37 spins are 24 numbers right? so after 10 uniques we should have 14 wins on KTF? 24 minus 10 is 14
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 07:03 PM 2016
yes, but i work on 40 spins
interested in spins11-40, those 30 spins on avg 15 non-hit, but its where the 15 repeats come, so you have to watch the trot, find away/your way to read the trot,its all about 0x,1x then the >1x.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 21, 07:16 PM 2016
I like to get a few repeaters straight after our 10 spins. Then go in..... didn't failed me yet.
Can't say it enough. ...Thx Notto!

@Jimmy B. ....what you mean ? The software or the casino ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 21, 07:20 PM 2016
RG
KTF started out for me just betting off the non-hit, that machine of death that i play on just seemed to catch me out after some time,so i'd go back to the drawing board,come at it a different way, again and again.
Then i come across GUT and boom it hit me The trot that Winkel and Azim where talking about. Me betting non-hit, but it was seeing the trot,how those pesky 1x's mucked me up, so i learnt when i could bet 1x+>1x together, or 0x+1x, i learnt how to mix them up.
Perhaps if Winkel could have gone on, he might have shown his way to bet just more than the one crossing.

The avg doc its all info, the more info you have, will help show the trot. What about watching the profit,it has a trot + then - back up is it time to take a small profit, Jump,restart what did the Guvnor Winkel say its you decision.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Feb 22, 05:51 AM 2016
Hi Notto

What you mean when you're referring to count back.
I'm currently using a rng where there's no spin history. Literally I'll just spin until the unique 10 are their.
For me it's the less spins you make the better. Start to go to deep and to you have a higher chance of hitting to many repeats.
Its personal preference but I'd prefer to get in and out and reset new game. Profit from say 20-40 units max.
When you start to chase the game it can be a long drawn out process.




Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 21, 06:32 PM 2016
Exactly
Remember that 50/60 is only an example of if you had to keep on playing,KTF
Watch that trot,like Azim said practice,practice. Keep in mind the avg for non-hit,try to remember what the max non-hit could take.
You watch the trot of 0x and 1x +>1x, watch the profit trot, remember the last high, you got to be watching.
Have you used countback.

Nice to see +195

Keep up the good work
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 06:10 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  22.2.16 KTF  +66 #29
So we know we have a choice, go for it +1/-1 and KTF.
Or we watch,dont bet, why bet, the 1st 10 let us know how many non-hit and one hit.
Today with countback beside spins11-20, gives a good indicator for those who watch, the KTF users of to a bad start, but the figure shows, they get the profit.

we can see with countback the 10th non-hit is reluctant to show, if you've looked at the avg doc you'll see its missed its avg of 2 spins, its max at this time is 3 spins, so the decision go for it or wait, if you do bet and it lost,+1 wont get a profit, so a marty would be needed to make a profit,but it came in, so still max 3 spins.

Now the max spins will go up but when, the avg doc really needs to be 100 games, then there should be a confident avg to use.
Will have to have 2 avg doc's like Chrisbis said, one of a changing 100 games and one that just grows, these 2 pieces of info will be useful for comparison.
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 14 36
2 9 35
3 20 34
4 20 r
5 5 33
6 30 32
7 36 31
8 35 30
9 12 29 stake
10 24 28 non-hit return
11 30 r 1 28 0 -28
12 20 r 2 56 0 -84
13 2 27 3 84 108 -60
14 17 26 2 54 72 -42
15 18 25 1 26 36 -32
16 17 r 1 25 0 -57
17 36 r 2 50 0 -107
18 2 r 3 75 0 -182
19 25 24 4 100 144 -138
20 31 23 3 72 108 -102
21 32 22 2 46 72 -76
22 9 r 1 22 0 -98
23 19 21 2 44 72 -70
24 23 20 1 21 36 -55
25 1 19 1 20 36 -39
26 14 r 1 19 0 -58
27 9 r 2 38 0 -96
28 22 18 3 57 108 -45
29 12 r 2 36 0 -81
30 21 17 3 54 108 -27
31 23 r 2 34 0 -61
32 18 r 3 51 0 -112
33 13 16 4 68 144 -36
34 4 15 3 48 108 24
35 29 14 2 30 72 66
36 14 r 1
37 8 13 2
38 19 r
39 31 r
40 1 r
41 1
42 31
43 24
44 9
45 27
46 4
47 22
48 32
49 6
50 19
51 5
52 32
53 30
54 17
55 28
56 29
57 31
58 36
59 27
60 11

61 13
62 10
63 19
64 19
65 8
66 35
67 12
68 17
69 8
70 21
71 6
72 2
73 11
74 17
75 0
76 7
77 27
78 27
79 1
80 36
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 06:29 AM 2016
Hi  spartanrules
Countback.
If you think its fair to say in spins 11-30 we will on avg get 15.69492 non-hit, now i know the math guys will say round up,but for me i drop the .69492, so 15 in 30 spins.
So if you agree then what we could see is spins11-20 get 5 non-hit,spins 21-30 5 non-hit and spins 31-40 5 non-hit, the 15 non-hit in 30 spins.

So between the blocks of 4*10 on the sheet you can write countback, countback is the amount of non-hit in spins 1-10 plus the avg 15.
Today we get 9/10, so 9+15=24, avg says at spin 40 we could have 24 non-hit, spins 11-20 get 5 non-hit so + nothing, in between the boxes write countback like i have on the sheet, i should have started at spin 39/40 with 24 and wrote coming back to spins 11/12.

You can see today got the 15 non-hit by 37th spin LOTT as well, i suppose its the perfect trot, but you need to practice if your going to play against the trot.

Its personal preference but I'd prefer to get in and out and reset new game. Profit from say 20-40 units max.
When you start to chase the game it can be a long drawn out process.
Your words, so you've made the decision, i cant agree more take an early win. I just showed how betting only the non-hits with +1/-1 can make 50/60units, but why go to 50/60, why not be happy with  say +30 and reset
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JimmieB on Feb 22, 06:35 AM 2016
@ Denzie, what casino? Thanks..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 06:38 AM 2016
It can get a little scary +1 -1 so u must ktf

But any luck flat bet?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 06:46 AM 2016
Flat bet is hit and miss i'm afraid. The repeats in 11-20 would make it hard
28
28
28-36
27-36
26-36
25
25
25
25-36
24-36
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 22, 06:55 AM 2016
Quote from: JimmieB on Feb 22, 06:35 AM 2016
@ Denzie, what casino? Thanks..

:.casino777.be

Or check :.gamingcommission.be  : this is a website from our government with the casino's thar are under there strict supervision. (If any probs you contact them and they know what bet you made and when etc before you even tell them.) And more importantly : check the BLACKLIST

@all KTF testers.  More then 50 sessions now and only get 3 results in our spins  11-40

15 unhit / 15 repeaters
16 unhit / 14 repeaters
19 unhit / 11 repeaters

:o
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 07:00 AM 2016
The only rng casino i can really use is club world group

Another member had suggested miami club but they dont accept my state

Im willing to try club world group because they seem to be accredited and have a .25 cent minimum bet....and they accept U.S.

I dont know......
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 22, 09:35 AM 2016
I have a little hard to understand the trot. What do you mean with this below?
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 21, 06:32 PM 2016
Exactly
Remember that 50/60 is only an example of if you had to keep on playing,KTF
Watch that trot,like Azim said practice,practice. Keep in mind the avg for non-hit,try to remember what the max non-hit could take.
Do you have an example of this 0x and 1x +>1x? Is this the 15 non hit?
You watch the trot of 0x and 1x +>1x, watch the profit trot, remember the last high, you got to be watching.
Have you used countback.

Nice to see +195

Keep up the good work

I understand the repeaters and the unhit.
I have started to log my bets as well. I'm playing on Bwin rng..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 22, 09:38 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 06:38 AM 2016
It can get a little scary +1 -1 so u must ktf

But any luck flat bet?
Yes I agree with you,  but +1 -1 works best for now. I have also tested flatbet. But as nottophammer says it will not recover. Maybe gr8player but that is a slow progression as well..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 22, 10:08 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 16, 09:43 AM 2016
still using +1/-1

slower +1/-1             old+1/-1  using todays #'s

1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 3
2                                 2
1                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 1
1                                 2
2                                 3
2                                 2
1                                 1
                                   1
I think I have missed this. What is the old and new progression?  Which one are you using today?
Can you write the whole progression?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 22, 12:18 PM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Feb 22, 10:08 AM 2016
I think I have missed this. What is the old and new progression?  Which one are you using today?
Can you write the whole progression?


This was a relaxed betting progression suggestion that notto mentioned a while ago but I do not know if anybody ever tried it.
I know I didn't.

The progression has always been +1/-1 and still remains that way as far as I am aware.
Note that the relaxed progression proposed was only for the numbers for that day.

The proposed BR for KTF has always been $400.
I have not had a drawdown over $300 since following the trot and therefore found no need to change from the +1/-1 progression.

From what I see in the casinos, too many players are underfunded when they play roulette, or any other game in the casino for that matter.
As has been stated many times if you do not have the required BR, and be prepared to lose it, you should not be playing the system/method you  have selected, and, you never play with scared money.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 12:23 PM 2016
Never play with scared money

I love that quote. and a Blackjack dealer told me that once

On an airball macine using $1 units $400 bankroll would be sufficient? Notto? Celtic?

Id aim for $40 then take a break

@ tamino, those mathboyzz say taking a break means nothing
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 12:30 PM 2016
tuddilue, you asked
Do you have an example of this 0x and 1x, +>1x? Is this the 15 non hit?

Yes over the 30 spins 11-40 you will see the above, If you play KTF, betting every spin with +1/-1, we've seen it win 57 games out of 58.
All i was doing, was putting KTF up, to show you could just bet the non-hit, with the best progression, i've found to use, is the +1/-1
Yes it can get scary, so you need to decide where to stop.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 12:50 PM 2016
Stop loss recommendation?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 22, 01:05 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 12:23 PM 2016

On an airball macine using $1 units $400 bankroll would be sufficient? Notto? Celtic?

Id aim for $40 then take a break

@ tamino, those mathboyzz say taking a break means nothing


-Rg

$1 airball with $400 BR is what I am playing and as stated in my last post I have not had a drawdown over $300 in a long time.

As I play on an American wheel if I make $30-40 in the first few spins I am finished, if not, I still quit when the profit is around the $40 mark.

Whether you take a break or not is up to you and whether or not it makes a difference as far as the math is concerned I do not know.
I just watch the trot and follow the rules or as the title of this thread says "Keep The Faith" and it has been good to me.
The only break I take is when I am finished that session and usually I only play one or maybe two sessions a day and never back to back sessions.

One thing I have not seen mentioned on this thread is that when playing KTF it can be stressful and you have to concentrate and keep your wits about you.

Go for many small wins.
They do add up.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 01:13 PM 2016
I think that some members have found how to watch the trot, each to their own way.
As i just said for those 30 spins +1/-1 has done the job.
So now we know that those 30 spins on avg produce 15 non-hit, Remember the topic i started 12 unique in x spins, go back look at how the 12 unique repeat, is it 1 spin or 3 spins?
Look at the avg doc,the early non-hit avg to hit in 2spins,but what you need to know, is the max spins.
The max the doc shows at the moment when the 12th non-hit has come, the 13th non-hit up to yesterday was max 3 spins, so 12 unique can repeat straight away, so if your just watching the trot today you would have seen countback show the the 12th non-hit is on time, but now you see the 12 repeat and think of the 13th non-hit's avg to hit, 2spins, 2 spins come,not shown, countback shows its possible to show on the 17th spin,but its a repeat, so could it come on the 18th, you are watching the trot, 18th another repeat, now countback says its late, its repeated 3 times its usual max, so now is a good time to bet the 25 non-hit, but not with +1/-1, if it lost again, the2 unit bet, would lose you 3 units if it came in, but a 3unit loss is bareable.
Remember the above is average,so keep up todate with Average.

A stop loss, that depends on how you play, are you going to just watch the trot, watching how the 1x behave.
Theres a lot to aid you decisions, avg,max, countback and then the bankroll, probably the best, think to watch,is there early profit, take a small profit, you have all day, different tables.

Celticknits has just beat me, but he says it right small wins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 22, 01:15 PM 2016
Celticknits. ... how you handle this one

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;D
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 01:16 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 22, 01:05 PM 2016

-Rg

$1 airball with $400 BR is what I am playing and as stated in my last post I have not had a drawdown over $300 in a long time.

As I play on an American wheel if I make $30-40 in the first few spins I am finished, if not, I still quit when the profit is around the $40 mark.

Whether you take a break or not is up to you and whether or not it makes a difference as far as the math is concerned I do not know.
I just watch the trot and follow the rules or as the title of this thread says "Keep The Faith" and it has been good to me.
The only break I take is when I am finished that session and usually I only play one or maybe two sessions a day and never back to back sessions.

One thing I have not seen mentioned on this thread is that when playing KTF it can be stressful and you have to concentrate and keep your wits about you.

Go for many small wins.
They do add up.

-Celtic

Thanks for the info.

We both have airball so that gives me faith

Your largest drawdown was 300 and recovered? Or you stopped?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 01:22 PM 2016
« Reply #224 on: Today at 11:29:01 AM »

    Quote

Hi  spartanrules
Countback.
If you think its fair to say in spins 11-30 we will on avg get 15.69492 non-hit, now i know the math guys will say round up,but for me i drop the .69492, so 15 in 30 spins.
So if you agree then what we could see is spins11-20 get 5 non-hit,spins 21-30 5 non-hit and spins 31-40 5 non-hit, the 15 non-hit in 30 spins.


So between the blocks of 4*10 on the sheet you can write countback, countback is the amount of non-hit in spins 1-10 plus the avg 15.
Today we get 9/10, so 9+15=24, avg says at spin 40 we could have 24 non-hit, spins 11-20 get 5 non-hit so + nothing, in between the boxes write countback like i have on the sheet, i should have started at spin 39/40 with 24 and wrote coming back to spins 11/12.

You can see today got the 15 non-hit by 37th spin LOTT as well, i suppose its the perfect trot, but you need to practice if your going to play against the trot.

Its personal preference but I'd prefer to get in and out and reset new game. Profit from say 20-40 units max.
When you start to chase the game it can be a long drawn out process.
Your words, so you've made the decision, i cant agree more take an early win. I just showed how betting only the non-hits with +1/-1 can make 50/60units, but why go to 50/60, why not be happy with  say +30 and reset

earlier today, the countback is a guide to how the 15 could come, 10th's late, 13th just gone over it, but 14th came trot on time, its to help in your decisions
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 01:41 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 22, 01:15 PM 2016
Celticknits. ... how you handle this one

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U-1  +54  leave assuming it was 10/10
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;D
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 22, 01:52 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 22, 01:15 PM 2016
Celticknits. ... how you handle this one

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;D

-Denzie

Tricky one.  :question:

I have to make several assumptions here:

1. These spins do not include the initial 10
2. The initial count was 10/10 or thereabouts
3. Based on the trot I would have started betting normally and then switched to betting repeats on spin 21

If there were no spins prior then I would wait for more spins because it looks like it can go either way but there must have been prior spins because your first consideration was a Repeat.  :wink:

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 22, 02:08 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 22, 01:52 PM 2016
-Denzie

Tricky one.  :question:

I have to make several assumptions here:

1. These spins do not include the initial 10
2. The initial count was 10/10 or thereabouts
3. Based on the trot I would have started betting normally and then switched to betting repeats on spin 21

If there were no spins prior then I would wait for more spins because it looks like it can go either way but there must have been prior spins because your first consideration was a Repeat.  :wink:

-Celtic

Hihi

This was a real session. First 10 spins was 9 unhit and 1 repeat. I personally never play the 11th spin. But I always play after it when it's a repeat.  So I take that little profit and restart it all . 9 out of 10 I got it .

I like the repeaters early.   :)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 22, 02:20 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 22, 02:08 PM 2016
Hihi

This was a real session. First 10 spins was 9 unhit and 1 repeat. I personally never play the 11th spin. But I always play after it when it's a repeat.  So I take that little profit and restart it all . 9 out of 10 I got it .

I like the repeaters early.   :)

Can you post the actual numbers for the session?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 22, 02:33 PM 2016
Thanks all I got my answer of my questions.  I'm now playing with the 15 unit unit in 11-40. This is so beautiful because then you now the trot.
I have a bankroll of 400.
My win goal is around 30 units.
I have played around with different progressions but the +1/-1 is the one that works best for me.
I have doubled my bankroll as of now and I will put up some logs. But I have just started to log as nottophammer does, so it will take some time :-)
Thanks for a good system!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 03:21 PM 2016
Glad your ?'s have been sorted. watch that trot
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 22, 03:32 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 22, 02:20 PM 2016
Can you post the actual numbers for the session?

-Celtic

I'll post them tomorrow mate
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 03:49 PM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Feb 22, 02:33 PM 2016
Thanks all I got my answer of my questions.  I'm now playing with the 15 unit unit in 11-40. This is so beautiful because then you now the trot.
I have a bankroll of 400.
My win goal is around 30 units.
I have played around with different progressions but the +1/-1 is the one that works best for me.
I have doubled my bankroll as of now and I will put up some logs. But I have just started to log as nottophammer does, so it will take some time :-)
Thanks for a good system!

Im a bit behind. Wait for 15 unique? Then bet the 21 unhit?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 03:55 PM 2016
RG
If 15 have come it will leave 22 on euro
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 04:01 PM 2016
Ok. So wait 15 unique then go in with ktf? Right?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 22, 04:03 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 03:49 PM 2016
Im a bit behind. Wait for 15 unique? Then bet the 21 unhit?
Sorry looks like an h is missing. I mean 15 unhit.  nottophammer explains about in #241 above..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 04:14 PM 2016
Celticknits
Away to look at non-hit and one hit is like in Winkels graph, the non-hit are high and the one hit low, is there a sweet point? as the non-hit get lighter the one hit are gaining weight, so at some point the 1x reverse there position and become an unfavorable bet, profit on them is dropping.

But because theres now more 1x than 0x, does it really make them unbetable. To me yes as more 1x come they increase in cost, unlike the 0x, at the start, they get cheaper, but its all about watching how they come
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 06:07 PM 2016
I know i sound like an idiot with the questions

But you mean wait until 15 non hit then bet the non hits with +1 -1

We want 21 uniqies then go in?

:lol:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 22, 06:54 PM 2016
RG
the sheet shows workings to £1 units, you can start on a smaller unit, on that machine of death i have to use .20p units, so i dont get to the max bet of £100
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 22, 10:34 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 01:16 PM 2016

Your largest drawdown was 300 and recovered? Or you stopped?

Recovered because I watched the trot and kept the faith.
I am prepared to go to $400.

Today I had a $204 drawdown and recovered not problem.
I will be posting the sheet I used soon.

-Dave

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 10:41 PM 2016
Im going to have to join in on this fun soon......

I have.........faith
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 22, 10:52 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 22, 06:07 PM 2016
I know i sound like an idiot with the questions

But you mean wait until 15 non hit then bet the non hits with +1 -1

We want 21 uniqies then go in?

:lol:

-RG

Repeat after me "I am not an idiot...I am not an idiot...I am not an idiot..." OK now we can continue. :lol:

To answer your question:
You do not need 21 uniques.

Just take the last 10 numbers and work with them as explained in all these pages.
No fancy progressions just +1/-1.
Do not try to reinvent KTF it works fine as presented.

Learn to read the trot.
I think that you are involved in so many different systems you are just confusing yourself.
If you want to play around with different systems that is fine but KTF takes a lot of time, effort and studying to master.
If you want to play to make money then concentrate on KTF until you understand it.

As I said before, KTF has a steep learning curve but it does work IF you take the time to read the information available in this thread, the Jackpot Joy thread and anything to do with Winkels GUT procedure(s), especially on the VLS forum.

I hope this helps.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 22, 11:50 PM 2016
Today I decided to see how well I understand the teachings of KTF, the trot and GUT.
Refer to the attached sheet for some further explanations.

I decided I would bet as long as possible using my current knowledge of KTF and the trot and see how long I could last.
BR was $400

In the end I bet a total of 53 spins continuously.

It turned out that this would be done in 3  back to back sessions.
This was controlled by the trot not me.

Session 1
OK so I the first session I obtained the last ten numbers and bet for non hits.
This session only lasted 5 spins and I was up $35

Session 2
I decided to take the last 10 numbers spun and start a new session betting for the non hit numbers again.
This session consisted of a total of 24 spins and it went negative right from the start.
As a matter of fact I stayed at a negative balance until the very last spin and quit with a profit of $30.

Spin 14 of this session had a $204 drawdown but it did not worry me because the trot said I should recover.
Notice I said should and not would. Remember we are still gambling and we could lose......

OK after winning $65 for both those sessions I noticed that the trot said that repeats were way overdue so I decided to bet for the repeats in session 3.

After spin 11 in session 3 I was up $32 but the the trot was still good for repeats and my next bet was only $20 so if I lost I would have quit the session and still had a profit of $12 giving me a total of $77 for all three sessions.

As it turned out the next spin was a winner and I was up to $49 and only betting $18 so I decided to continue betting until my first loss.
The trot was still good.
I won the next two spins and had a session profit of $86 so far.
I lost the next spin (#14) with a bet of $16 and quit with a session 3 profit of $70.

So the total profit for the 53 spins was $35+$30+$70=$135

To summarize I have to say that I would never do this again.
It was so mentally intense to stay on top of everything going on it would not have taken much to lose track.

I am retired and this was done in mid afternoon when there were only one to two other players at the wheel so I am sure that this helped a lot.

Please note that the sheet does not show Numbers 31-36 in the block where you mark what numbers to bet and which are hit.
All Six of those numbers were bet on. (This shows in the same area of Session 2).

I hope this is helpful to answering some questions you guys may have.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 04:15 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 22, 11:50 PM 2016
Today I decided to see how well I understand the teachings of KTF, the trot and GUT.
Refer to the attached sheet for some further explanations.

I decided I would bet as long as possible using my current knowledge of KTF and the trot and see how long I could last.
BR was $400

In the end I bet a total of 53 spins continuously.

It turned out that this would be done in 3  back to back sessions.
This was controlled by the trot not me.

Session 1
OK so I the first session I obtained the last ten numbers and bet for non hits.
This session only lasted 5 spins and I was up $35

Session 2
I decided to take the last 10 numbers spun and start a new session betting for the non hit numbers again.
This session consisted of a total of 24 spins and it went negative right from the start.
As a matter of fact I stayed at a negative balance until the very last spin and quit with a profit of $30.

Spin 14 of this session had a $204 drawdown but it did not worry me because the trot said I should recover.
Notice I said should and not would. Remember we are still gambling and we could lose......

OK after winning $65 for both those sessions I noticed that the trot said that repeats were way overdue so I decided to bet for the repeats in session 3.

After spin 11 in session 3 I was up $32 but the the trot was still good for repeats and my next bet was only $20 so if I lost I would have quit the session and still had a profit of $12 giving me a total of $77 for all three sessions.

As it turned out the next spin was a winner and I was up to $49 and only betting $18 so I decided to continue betting until my first loss.
The trot was still good.
I won the next two spins and had a session profit of $86 so far.
I lost the next spin (#14) with a bet of $16 and quit with a session 3 profit of $70.

So the total profit for the 53 spins was $35+$30+$70=$135

To summarize I have to say that I would never do this again.
It was so mentally intense to stay on top of everything going on it would not have taken much to lose track.

I am retired and this was done in mid afternoon when there were only one to two other players at the wheel so I am sure that this helped a lot.

Please note that the sheet does not show Numbers 31-36 in the block where you mark what numbers to bet and which are hit.
All Six of those numbers were bet on. (This shows in the same area of Session 2).

I hope this is helpful to answering some questions you guys may have.

-Celtic
Impressive sessions. I have a question the session 2, you have written 6+1 but should it not be 11+1? (5+6 unhit)..

Another question, how did you know when to switch to betting on repeats? Because when I read it the trot was showing that the repeats and unhit was correct. I mean 11 unhits and 9 repeats. How did you know that it should come more repeats?

I think the progression is so steep. Should it be possible to not go so deep? I mean when you have lost 3 times you are really in the deep  :twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 05:03 AM 2016
I was thinking about the progression,  has someone tested positive progression. I mean turn the +1/-1 around.

When winning you do +1 and when you loose you do -1.

That would be really interesting to see what happens   O0
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 23, 05:30 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  23.2.16     KTF  +38?

Now if you play KTF then there is no need to watch the trot as its just betting the non-hit every spin with +1/-1 to win your win target, as above ktf no watching the trot, 4 non-hit on the bounce, stands at +38 is that enough for you to stop.

If on the other hand you are watching the trot, lots to think of, think what the 12 unique showed us, 14 spins 1 repeat, countback, showing how early the non-hit are,
So are you stopping +38, or you chance for a repeat.

Remember this is a game of chance, theres no hard fast rules for the wheel, just your experiance and knowledge of how a trot could show.

What countback looks like.  dont need to do any more on the sheet i'd take the +38
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 05:35 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 23, 05:30 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  23.2.16     KTF  +38?

Now if you play KTF then there is no need to watch the trot as its just betting the non-hit every spin with +1/-1 to win your win target, as above ktf no watching the trot, 4 non-hit on the bounce, stands at +38 is that enough for you to stop.

If on the other hand you are watching the trot, lots to think of, think what the 12 unique showed us, 14 spins 1 repeat, countback, showing how early the non-hit are,
So are you stopping +38, or you chance for a repeat.

Remember this is a game of chance, theres no hard fast rules for the wheel, just your experiance and knowledge of how a trot could show.

What countback looks like.  dont need to do any more on the sheet i'd take the +38
Ok I was just curious and always interesting to learn more about the trot and how people read it and bet after it.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 05:38 AM 2016
Have you tested some positive progression?  Would be interesting to hear what you think about it and if it is possible..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 23, 05:57 AM 2016
tuddilue
You will learn the trot from experiance, the topic 12 unique shows how the unique do repeat, also those 12 dont repeat for over 9 spins,but not often. Remember the LOTT, how 24 non-hit is shown to account for 20% of the 500,000 37 spin cycles.
Todays sheet shows 14 spins, 13  of the 24 has already shown, 23 spins still to come, another 11 nonhit could show,so 12 repeats could happen, well 37th spin its 24 non-hit.
Plenty of info on the forum to help understand the trot.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 23, 05:57 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Feb 23, 04:15 AM 2016
Impressive sessions. I have a question the session 2, you have written 6+1 but should it not be 11+1? (5+6 unhit)..

I find it easier to write them individually and just add them together in my head but you are correct the way that notto's JJ sheets are shown it would be 11+1

Another question, how did you know when to switch to betting on repeats? Because when I read it the trot was showing that the repeats and unhit was correct. I mean 11 unhits and 9 repeats. How did you know that it should come more repeats?

I looked at the number of hit numbers and compared it to the repeats since the beginning of the session (including the first 10 numbers). 21 Hits  and only 9 repeats in the the first 30 spins. Then as soon as I had a profit at spin 22 I considered switching to repeats then because the count was now 23 hit and still only 9 repeats since the beginning of the session but I was only up $3 so I decided to give it a few more spins but at that point I knew I was going to switch to betting repeats in the next few spins. I lost the next spin and won the one after that and I was at +$30 so I then switched to repeats.

I think the progression is so steep. Should it be possible to not go so deep? I mean when you have lost 3 times you are really in the deep  :twisted:

In session two the progression only went to level 4.
I would have followed the progression even higher if it was required and this is why you need a $400 BR and need to Keep The Faith that it is going to work. Not easy sometimes such as session 2 when you are down $204 but if you do not have the BR or discipline to follow through I would suggest trying another method. It's not easy at times.

You have mentioned different progressions several times regarding KTF.
The progression is +1/-1 for KTF if you want to change it go ahead and try it.
I will stay with what has been tried and proven to work with it.


I hope this answers your questions.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 23, 05:59 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Feb 23, 05:38 AM 2016
Have you tested some positive progression?  Would be interesting to hear what you think about it and if it is possible..

Thats for you to test. Let us know you results. Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 23, 06:23 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 23, 05:30 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  23.2.16     KTF  +38?

Now if you play KTF then there is no need to watch the trot as its just betting the non-hit every spin with +1/-1 to win your win target, as above ktf no watching the trot, 4 non-hit on the bounce, stands at +38 is that enough for you to stop.

If on the other hand you are watching the trot, lots to think of, think what the 12 unique showed us, 14 spins 1 repeat, countback, showing how early the non-hit are,
So are you stopping +38, or you chance for a repeat.

Remember this is a game of chance, theres no hard fast rules for the wheel, just your experiance and knowledge of how a trot could show.

What countback looks like.  dont need to do any more on the sheet i'd take the +38

I have hi-lited the sage words of advice above.

Maybe I should not have posted yesterday's session showing betting on repeats but I wanted to show that continuous betting including betting on repeats could be done.

I would not recommend playing three sessions in a row like I did yesterday, and, I would never do it again, because of the stress and intensity of concentration involved.

-Celtic

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 06:27 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 23, 05:57 AM 2016
I hope this answers your questions.

-Celtic

Yes thank you that answers my questions!
Yes I always thinks on different progressions. I will of course test around with different approaches...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 06:28 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 23, 05:59 AM 2016
Thats for you to test. Let us know you results. Thanks

He he Yes of course! It got me curios how it will work.
I will test tonight. I'm sitting on the work now and will get back to you about this...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 23, 06:37 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Feb 23, 06:28 AM 2016
He he Yes of course! It got me curios how it will work.
I will test tonight. I'm sitting on the work now and will get back to you about this...

For a good view on your results you should use Notto,s numbers .  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 23, 06:40 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 23, 06:23 AM 2016

Maybe I should not have posted yesterday's session showing betting on repeats but I wanted to show that continuous betting including betting on repeats could be done.


-Celtic

It sure can. I'm. Doing it also. All up to how the trot is going at the moment. If I'm not sure/feel confident then I reset it all.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 23, 06:45 AM 2016
I've tried with positive progression and it is definitely not working.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 07:00 AM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Feb 23, 06:45 AM 2016
I've tried with positive progression and it is definitely not working.
Ok sad to hear.
Do you have an example?
Will it not recover fast enough?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 23, 07:15 AM 2016
The thing i like about +1 -1 for this is that you would have to get an insane amount of repeats for it to fail

I think this is one of those things that loses 1 out of 10 times and still in nice profit

$400 bankroll $300 stop loss? Celtic had $200 drawdown on airball which recovered....

Too early to tell. Good thing theres a lot of testers now

No RFH yet on this CWB
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 23, 07:18 AM 2016
@ Tuddi
If you miss after 2 or 3 hits, you lose too much, and it can't recover with 2 or 3 wins as every Loss is much bigger compered to Win.

I tried it few weeks ago, but you are welcome to make some tweak...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 23, 07:27 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 23, 07:15 AM 2016
The thing i like about +1 -1 for this is that you would have to get an insane amount of repeats for it to fail

I think this is one of those things that loses 1 out of 10 times and still in nice profit


1 out of.... 10? Naaaaah
70? Maybe
More? Probably   :love:

Since I wait repeaters first after our 10 spins I didn't come close to losing. Only down side? I reset a looooot.  Lol. But on fast rng it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 07:30 AM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Feb 23, 07:18 AM 2016
@ Tuddi
If you miss after 2 or 3 hits, you lose too much, and it can't recover with 2 or 3 wins as every Loss is much bigger compered to Win.

I tried it few weeks ago, but you are welcome to make some tweak...
Yes I did some tests on paper with nottophammers numbers. But I agree with you. It can't recovery fast enough..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 23, 07:53 AM 2016
Reply 268
Exactly Celticknits as you play you start to see the repeats, overtime you realise you could bet for the repeat.
As the Grand master says it’s your decision.

I said some posts back i was only betting the non-hit, when reading GUT the light come on, what the 1x's where doing, try it get a session of numbers and manually draw the graph, I did, it’s all well and good a computer pops up a graph, yes a fancy picture, but do you really understand that picture.

I never used the various computer trackers, so i needed to see the tracking and come up with the paper tracker for gut, you could go to the B+M with that, you should be okay, but you stick a laptop by you, out.
Also no one knows what you’re doing with the pen and paper.

So what is the game, simple, what I wanted, its 0X's, then 1X's, then its >1X's. At the start what’s the larger group, 0X's, so who’s the favourite to hit, you have the avg doc for knowledge.
The one thing to remember, a live wheel will play how it wants, so that should be fair, aren't the larger group favoured, and what is good the larger group get cheaper to stake and give more value as they get lighter, you should have the win target by now, so you stop.

Now the trot watchers, what do we need to keep in mind, if you use the avg doc, it’s the 15 in 30, we seem to agree this is fair.
So now our game starts at spin 11, what’s the score? 8,9,10/10, so you should have some nervousness we are stepping into the unknown, well almost, you have experience and knowledge on your side, info you've collected, like the professional horse gamblers, they don’t bet blindly, nor do we. You/I we wait, watch, watch at the time the non-hit to come, do they come fast, without tracking you won’t know, but you are professional, if it was 10/10, then 5 non-hit on the trot, who’s fav to make an appearance yes Mr 1x. You know from understanding LOTT how many non-hit, are, I use the word, likely, nothing is guaranteed, but you are no amateur, you know how to stake, you should know the cost of the next bet already if it were to lose. Like the sage Mr J says “time” if the tables busy you’ll have time, to get round this dare I say it I use RNG, I’m in charge of the speed that this game is played at.
Try to get more aids to help in you decision.
1.   knowledge/experience
2.   Data base
3.   countback
4.   other topics that can be adapted to KTF
5.   If the subject is on a forum read the posts, might be something you’d not thought of, me included.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 23, 08:03 AM 2016
Notto you use an rng thats regulated. Id say online rngs are different

My local casino has video roulette machines

Im going to monitor that thing just to see if it works. Big 80 inch screen with a pretty lady
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 23, 08:10 AM 2016
Thats is RG collect some games, what the minimum unit, does it have a funny step increment, you need to know as when you start betting you dont want any funny distractions.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 23, 09:41 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 22, 01:15 PM 2016
Celticknits. ...
5
33
19
19
8
36
28
21
22
14
---------------

19R
12U
34U
33R
10U
33R
8R
23U
2U
12R
15U
4U
33R
35U
5R
13U
1U
2R
32U
28R
3U
22R
14R
0U
7U
11U
32R
19R
10R
18U



Here are the numbers as requested Celticknits
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Feb 23, 10:07 AM 2016
Just checking in with KTF.
Had a few bad games where I had to take a loss.

Denzie. What table do you play at.?
I am currently using BV on their rng no live tables. Just don't like them really.
Would prefer some tips on a better table if possible.

Thanks. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 23, 10:30 AM 2016
:.casino777.be 

Can you post the nrs? So we can have a look.

Me personally never play the first spin (11)
I wait 2-3 repeaters on 11-12-13. Then I go in. Didn't got close to busting. I'm already happy with some profit and I stop.

Tomorrow I'll post 100 sessions.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 23, 10:41 AM 2016
I think denzie is on the right track

Wait until you have 2 to 3 repeaters within 13 spins then go in ktf

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Feb 23, 11:29 AM 2016
Hi Denzie

I'll wait for 2-3 repeaters then and report back on the results from this.

With casino777 you playing one particular table Denzie.? Thanks


Quote from: denzie on Feb 23, 10:30 AM 2016
:.casino777.be 

Can you post the nrs? So we can have a look.

Me personally never play the first spin (11)
I wait 2-3 repeaters on 11-12-13. Then I go in. Didn't got close to busting. I'm already happy with some profit and I stop.

Tomorrow I'll post 100 sessions.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 23, 01:18 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 23, 09:41 AM 2016
Here are the numbers as requested Celticknits

-Denzie

S   #   R   Bet   P   Stake   Won   Net   Total
1   19   R   28   1   28      -28   -28
2   12      28   2   56   72   16   -12
3   34      27   1   27   36   9   -3
4   33   R   26   1   26      -26   -29
5   10      26   2   52   72   20   -9
6   33   R   25   1   25      -25   -34
7   8   R   25   2   50      -50   -84
8   23      25   3   75   108   33   -51
9   2      24   2   48   72   24   -27
10   12   R   23   1   23      -23   -50
11   15      23   2   46   72   26   -24
12   4      22   1   22   36   14   -10
13   33   R   21   1   21      -21   -31
14   35      21   2   42   72   30   -1
15   5   R   20   1   20      -20   -21
16   13      20   2   40   72   32   11
17   1      19   1   19   36   17   28-----Consider quitting
18   2   R   18   1   18      -18   10
19   32      18   2   36   72   36   46-----Definite Quitting spot as per KTF rules
20   28   R   17   1   17      -17   29
21   3      17   2   34   72   38   67
22   22   R   16   1   16      -16   51
23   14   R   16   2   32      -32   19
24   0      16   3   48   108   60   79
25   7      15   2   30   72   42   121
26   11      14   1   14   36   22   143
27   32   R   14   2   28      -28   115
28   19   R   14   3   42      -42   73
29   10   R   14   4   56      -56   17
30   18      14   5   70   180   110   127


Am I missing something? :question:

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 23, 02:52 PM 2016
In a perfect world start with 400. When double bankroll increase to 2 unit size. When double bankroll 4 unit size. Etc. But the world isnt perfect  :yawn:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 23, 03:24 PM 2016
Jon Bon Jovi approves this message

(link:s://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3c/Bon_Jovi_Keep_the_Faith_song.jpg)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 23, 03:32 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 23, 02:52 PM 2016
In a perfect world start with 400. When double bankroll increase to 2 unit size. When double bankroll 4 unit size. Etc. But the world isnt perfect  :yawn:
I think the problem you often do is to increase to fast. I mean it is better to take it slower and increase the bet size slowly. Otherwise it is so easy to blow the bankroll.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 23, 04:00 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 23, 01:18 PM 2016
-Denzie

S   #   R   Bet   P   Stake   Won   Net   Total
1   19   R   28   1   28      -28   -28
2   12      28   2   56   72   16   -12
3   34      27   1   27   36   9   -3
4   33   R   26   1   26      -26   -29
5   10      26   2   52   72   20   -9
6   33   R   25   1   25      -25   -34
7   8   R   25   2   50      -50   -84
8   23      25   3   75   108   33   -51
9   2      24   2   48   72   24   -27
10   12   R   23   1   23      -23   -50
11   15      23   2   46   72   26   -24
12   4      22   1   22   36   14   -10
13   33   R   21   1   21      -21   -31
14   35      21   2   42   72   30   -1
15   5   R   20   1   20      -20   -21
16   13      20   2   40   72   32   11
17   1      19   1   19   36   17   28-----Consider quitting
18   2   R   18   1   18      -18   10
19   32      18   2   36   72   36   46-----Definite Quitting spot as per KTF rules
20   28   R   17   1   17      -17   29
21   3      17   2   34   72   38   67
22   22   R   16   1   16      -16   51
23   14   R   16   2   32      -32   19
24   0      16   3   48   108   60   79
25   7      15   2   30   72   42   121
26   11      14   1   14   36   22   143
27   32   R   14   2   28      -28   115
28   19   R   14   3   42      -42   73
29   10   R   14   4   56      -56   17
30   18      14   5   70   180   110   127


Am I missing something? :question:

-Celtic

I did catch one error but that was after we would have quit anyway and it would have produced additional profit in the last 4 spins.
I forgot to reduce the bet on spin #27 after the win on #26.

Sorry about that.

-Celtic

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 24, 05:14 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 23, 10:30 AM 2016
:.casino777.be 

Can you post the nrs? So we can have a look.

Me personally never play the first spin (11)
I wait 2-3 repeaters on 11-12-13. Then I go in. Didn't got close to busting. I'm already happy with some profit and I stop.

Tomorrow I'll post 100 sessions.   :thumbsup:
Some questions:,
Are you using +1/-1 progression after this?
What are your win goal?
When you loose how long do you proceed with the betting or do you just stop and take the loss?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 24, 06:40 AM 2016
Quote from: spartanrules on Feb 23, 11:29 AM 2016
Hi Denzie

I'll wait for 2-3 repeaters then and report back on the results from this.

With casino777 you playing one particular table Denzie.? Thanks

I use the french tables. No idea why though. They look pretty  :P
And of course you not need to place a bet to spin the wheel.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 24, 06:44 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 23, 01:18 PM 2016


Am I missing something? :question:

-Celtic

Nope . I missed. All those numbers can make a person start seeing things that not there.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 24, 06:45 AM 2016
Puttin an offer on a house today

Lets see if KTF can pay my property taxes
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 24, 06:49 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Feb 24, 05:14 AM 2016
Some questions:,
Are you using +1/-1 progression after this?
yep

What are your win goal?
As soon I'm in profit I reset


When you loose how long do you proceed with the betting or do you just stop and take the loss?

since I waited the repeaters didn't got a loss yet. But if I would have I would play till I'm almost back and stop there. There's no shame in losing a few units.


Btw I'm over 50 sessions for today now. I don't play them to the end. On a new high I reset. And I'm starting to see something very interesting here.... I'll post results later on today
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 24, 07:01 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 24, 06:49 AM 2016
Btw I'm over 50 sessions for today now. I don't play them to the end. On a new high I reset. And I'm starting to see something very interesting here.... I'll post results later on today
Impressive!  That I'm looking forward to. It will be really interesting to see what you have found! A cliffhanger is always funny  :wink:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 08:44 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 24, 06:44 AM 2016
Nope . I missed. All those numbers can make a person start seeing things that not there.

I hear you, thanks for letting me know.

I was so worried that I maybe miscalculated something the other day when I played 3 sessions back to back.
Never again.

It was funny the other day when I went in and sat down with my paper tracker in hand one of the other players made a comment that the biggest losers that he sees in roulette are the the ones playing a system and writing everything down. Another regular player told him that he did not know what I was doing but I always showed a profit.

Later after making $37 and stopping I got to talking to the guy and he asked what my system was.
I told him that I do not play a method or system but rather a betting strategy.
Anyone reading this that has read the 80 pages on GUT will know that Winkel has always said this several times.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 24, 08:54 AM 2016
Celtic since you play on airball having to deal with no pitboss or dealer is nice isnt it
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 08:56 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 24, 06:49 AM 2016
Btw I'm over 50 sessions for today now. I don't play them to the end. On a new high I reset. And I'm starting to see something very interesting here.... I'll post results later on today

All the small wins do add up don't they.

What would you say the average time frame would be for each of your sessions/visits?
My session times range from 15 minutes to usually 30-45 minutes maximum.
My total casino time would average about an hour.

The one thing that I have noticed is that when I am following the trot and get to an outrageous number of not hits coming if I switch to betting repeats the repeats session is shorter and usually more profitable. Also, the drawdown is a lot less. I do not think I have had one over $100.
I think a lot of that has to do with the smaller stake because usuall I am only betting 20 numbers including the 0 and 00.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 09:06 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 24, 08:54 AM 2016
Celtic since you play on airball having to deal with no pitboss or dealer is nice isnt it

Yes but there are still the floor personnell watching me every 5 minutes.
I have played the last three days in a row and usually go 4-5 times a week.
I stay away from the weekends when all the yahoos show up although I have gone in at 2-3 AM on a Sunday morning and it is amazing how many people are there at that time in the morning. I have also noted that at those hours the ones gambling are usually the desperate ones and playing with scared money or chasing losses and are not playing Blackjack or Roulette but slots. If they only knew.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 24, 09:19 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 24.2.16   KTF +£51 #32
A few pics of what i have to do to get the numbers, see how many players they have.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 24, 09:23 AM 2016
Notto these machines are nothing more then an ATM for you
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 24, 09:42 AM 2016
Id be curious to see on airball Celtic how this would look if we waited for 2 to 3 repeats then went in on the non hits.....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 10:27 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 24, 09:19 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 24.2.16   KTF +£51 #32
A few pics of what i have to do to get the numbers, see how many players they have.

I can tell you that I for one appreciate it.
I download your sheets and go over every one of them in detail.

Although it is not KTF I have noticed that there is less of a drawdown betting repeats for some reason.
Look at todays sheet you posted and the trot after spin #30 (including the initial 10 numbers).
I would have been all over betting repeats at that point.

Thank you Notto.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 10:32 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 24, 09:42 AM 2016
Id be curious to see on airball Celtic how this would look if we waited for 2 to 3 repeats then went in on the non hits.....

I believe that is what Denzie does but he also just posted that he resets after he has any positive balance.
I think that would cut out some of the large drawdowns but remember he is playing on a fast rng machine.

I would not do this because I am playing in a B&M and want to get in and out ASAP and resetting would increase my playing time.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 24, 11:21 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 24, 10:27 AM 2016
I can tell you that I for one appreciate it.
I download your sheets and go over every one of them in detail.

Although it is not KTF I have noticed that there is less of a drawdown betting repeats for some reason.
Look at todays sheet you posted and the trot after spin #30 (including the initial 10 numbers).
I would have been all over betting repeats at that point.

Thank you Notto.

-Celtic
Yes I do that as well. You learn alot that way.

Yes I saw that as well. Impressive streak that you should want to bet at  >:D

How do you bet on the repeaters? Using the same progression?

Yes I also have alot of repeaters after the 20# spin. But I have never bet on them...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 11:39 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Feb 24, 11:21 AM 2016

How do you bet on the repeaters?

That is not KTF.
Read the 80 pages on the VLS forum regarding GUT


Using the same progression?
Yes!!!


AS NOTTO HAS SAID SEVERAL TIMES BETTING REPEATERS IS NOT KTF.
KTF IS BETTING NON HIT NUMBERS.


I sort of regret posting that sheet now, with the 3 sessions, the last one of which showed betting repeaters.

Note:I can hear you laughing in the background notto.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 24, 11:42 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 24, 11:39 AM 2016
AS NOTTO HAS SAID SEVERAL TIMES BETTING REPEATERS IS NOT KTF.
KTF IS BETTING NON HIT NUMBERS.


I sort of regret posting that sheet now, with the 3 sessions, the last one of which showed betting repeaters.

Note:I can hear you laughing in the background notto.

-Celtic
Ok sorry for asking.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 11:52 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Feb 24, 11:42 AM 2016
Ok sorry for asking.

Not a problem.
I posted betting repeats just to show what was possible with additional studying.
Betting repeats is a topic for another thread not KTF and is covered quite nicely in the 80 pages on the VLS forum.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 24, 01:48 PM 2016
Paddy power 24.2.16   RNG  +28.60    70 minutes
Should go in RNG uk spins, but about repeats. I watch the #'s in the margin keeping an eye on how the uniques are going, missed it my 8 spins and the 7 unique,repeat the 7's. So its watch spin11 repeat so bet the 28 0x win.
keep watching spin 19 16th non-hit well early so bet for a repeat,lose,rebet, win,rebet lose, 18th early, rebet,win,rebet,win, go for it again lose, rebet up the chips to 2 units, win, drop the units,win. +12.60 around 10 minutes.

New machine
As above watch the margin, repeating in my 10 spins, just watch 15th non-hit is early and only 1 repeat, bet the 15 win. watch  18th early,see its repeating ,bet the 19 to come, lose, now even thou i decided to just relay the 19, i'd decided i'd exept a loss of a couple of units if it comes in, yes it wins. now bet the 18 to come3.60 win. Now watching 20 is on time according to countback, see i bet for the 21st at 3.40,lose, rebet, lose,rebet chip up,win. Again go for the 22nd lose, rebet ,win. Now its behind on the count so go for the 23rd,takes 4 spins chipping up accordingly.

This is the grey-ish area to me spins 41-60. If we use the usual avg we've seen on KTF sheets, at spin 60 we see avg of 30 non-hit, so its needing 8 non-hit in 20 spins, so lets say every 2.5 spins.
So i'm waiting and another non-hit, two off the 8 have hit,so watching,you see i bet for the 13, lose, rebet,lose chip up win, wait, so if 2.5 is good so i bet spin 50 for the 26th,lose,rebet,win. watching, marked the #2 as a repeat so i was going to go for the 27th, then see the mistake it just came, so wait 28th where i put the possible win, so i've missed 3 non-hit, but its okay +£16.00

Just me on the trot
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 02:16 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 24, 01:48 PM 2016
Paddy power 24.2.16   RNG  +28.60    70 minutes
Should go in RNG uk spins, but about repeats. I watch the #'s in the margin keeping an eye on how the uniques are going, missed it my 8 spins and the 7 unique,repeat the 7's. So its watch spin11 repeat so bet the 28 0x win.
keep watching spin 19 16th non-hit well early so bet for a repeat,lose,rebet, win,rebet lose, 18th early, rebet,win,rebet,win, go for it again lose, rebet up the chips to 2 units, win, drop the units,win. +12.60 around 10 minutes.

New machine
As above watch the margin, repeating in my 10 spins, just watch 15th non-hit is early and only 1 repeat, bet the 15 win. watch  18th early,see its repeating ,bet the 19 to come, lose, now even thou i decided to just relay the 19, i'd decided i'd exept a loss of a couple of units if it comes in, yes it wins. now bet the 18 to come3.60 win. Now watching 20 is on time according to countback, see i bet for the 21st at 3.40,lose, rebet, lose,rebet chip up,win. Again go for the 22nd lose, rebet ,win. Now its behind on the count so go for the 23rd,takes 4 spins chipping up accordingly.

This is the grey-ish area to me spins 41-60. If we use the usual avg we've seen on KTF sheets, at spin 60 we see avg of 30 non-hit, so its needing 8 non-hit in 20 spins, so lets say every 2.5 spins.
So i'm waiting and another non-hit, two off the 8 have hit,so watching,you see i bet for the 13, lose, rebet,lose chip up win, wait, so if 2.5 is good so i bet spin 50 for the 26th,lose,rebet,win. watching, marked the #2 as a repeat so i was going to go for the 27th, then see the mistake it just came, so wait 28th where i put the possible win, so i've missed 3 non-hit, but its okay +£16.00

Just me on the trot

Oh boy another sheet to study :love:

Nice.
What bet size were you using?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 24, 02:23 PM 2016
always start with .20p units, otherwise the machine could get me too the max £100 bet, if using £1 units.
This is why i said to RG does the airball machine have a naughty chip up.
On the rng machine it goes .20- .40- .60-.80-1.00- 2.00  from the £1 straight to £2 naughty.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 24, 02:31 PM 2016
Airball machine is $1 chip minimum $3000 max bet. No worries
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 02:37 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 24, 02:23 PM 2016
always start with .20p units, otherwise the machine could get me too the max £100 bet, if using £1 units.
This is why i said to RG does the airball machine have a naughty chip up.
On the rng machine it goes .20- .40- .60-.80-1.00- 2.00  from the £1 straight to £2 naughty.

On my airball machine it is a a flat increment of $1 up to a table max of $500.00 bet.
I guess my machine has a sweetheart chip ;D

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Feb 24, 05:54 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 24, 02:37 PM 2016
On my airball machine it is a a flat increment of $1 up to a table max of $500.00 bet.
I guess my machine has a sweetheart chip ;D

-Celtic

wonder why a Casino would let you bet $500..not to mention £3000?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 24, 07:57 PM 2016
105 sessions
2 busts on ktf

I thought I got something but I was wrong. And waiting for 3 repeaters takes to long.
But....it did comes out in profit.

If I watch the trot...then 0 busts.
keep watching what's going on. If not sure then don't bet. This is perfect as it is. Nothing to tweak here.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 24, 08:07 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 24, 07:57 PM 2016
105 sessions
2 busts on ktf

I thought I got something but I was wrong. And waiting for 3 repeaters takes to long.
But....it did comes out in profit.

If I watch the trot...then 0 busts.
keep watching what's going on. If not sure then don't bet. This is perfect as it is. Nothing to tweak here.  :thumbsup:

Sorry to hear about the two bust-outs
Are you able to supply us with the numbers from those two losing sessions?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 25, 02:46 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 24, 08:07 PM 2016
Sorry to hear about the two bust-outs
Are you able to supply us with the numbers from those two losing sessions?

-Celtic
I think he is referring to the 2 first burst he had..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 25, 07:31 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  KTF +53 #36

So as per usual the larger group of non-hit, hit more than the 1x, so +£53.

Now if you must stay,you would watch, 17 spins 1 repeat, so a fast trot, countback shows its fast. Now the old brain will be screaming go for the repeat, but like i have said those 1x are getting more expensive to bet.
Now obviously we know whats going to happen, so lets assume you go for it, 16 L+17=33 L, those 2 bets have got no value now, so 18(*2) 36, so if it wins its 33+36=69 would give +3, so its best to leave with the early profit and restart.
KTF no betting for repeats, the larger number, who do you favour.


Okay safe old GUT no bets till 21st spin, but would you fancy going for the non-hit after 8 on the trot, as Winkel says if not sure then leave it alone, he could not make it any plainer.
So you would be watching the trot theres that word the trot, if adding score is to complicated then GUT is not for you. It might be easier to see the trot in the KTF column, as i say use both to make a decision.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 25, 07:40 AM 2016
24
18
18
33
3
4
5
12
24
20
----------
20
33
16
6
4
11
33
33
2
5
20
10
32
32
19
15
14
14
11
32
32
3
11
7
12
6
4
7
31
35

Look at those repeaters  :-[
Anyone wanna try ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Feb 25, 08:31 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 25, 07:40 AM 2016
24
18
18
33
3
4
5
12
24
20
----------
20
33
16
6
4
11
33
33
2
5
20
10
32
32
19
15
14
14
11
32
32
3
11
7
12
6
4
7
31
35

Look at those repeaters  :-[
Anyone wanna try ?


Let’s have a look and see what happens when you use 2 streams of numbers instead of 1.
The second stream will just use the pocket distances going around the wheel clockwise.
Example: Number 32 to 15 is moving around clockwise 1 pocket.
Number 32 to 19 is moving around clockwise 2 pockets.
Number 32 to 0 is moving around clockwise 36 pockets.

So let’s look at those numbers and see what the second stream produces.
The * represents a repeat.

The first stream had 6 repeats.
The second stream only had 1 repeat.

As Notto and Winkel would say…..’’read the trot’’.



Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 25, 08:54 AM 2016
Hi denzie
Yes a RFH, so if you a watcher of the trot, countback shows 9 is late, so now you would start to bet, win. It shows 10 is due on spin 14, so you should have been watching only, 11 on countback is late so you could go for it, it depends on how you find the trot. So still just watching countback shows 12 is late, so in you go.
With watching the trot these should be no problem, remember grand master Winkel if not sure then dont bet.

Now to the plain old KTF betters, you would be nervous on this game,but we need to have  60 spins, these #'s are -3 at spin 40, we usually see at spin 60, 30 non-hit have come, so in the next 20 spins its a 50/50 trot,just like in reply 311, if we can have the 20 spins it could be bank roll is back to where we started or even plus.
I attach 3/1/16 sheet its not far of the same trot
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 25, 09:06 AM 2016
Does it recover +1 -1. ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 25, 09:14 AM 2016
at spin 40 its down, but like i said i'd play till spin 60, so we''ll never know.
Reply 311 in paddy power Game 2 at 40 its -3, look what happens, i explain my thoughts
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 25, 09:19 AM 2016
Also RG, paddypower is the mickey mouse roulette in uk an egm, programme, it goes either way, but you must watch the trot.
Dont think Wiggy likes them, but he has a mate who plays them
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 25, 10:02 AM 2016
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=14735.0
A good read
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 25, 11:14 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 25, 07:31 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  KTF +53 #36

So as per usual the larger group of non-hit, hit more than the 1x, so +£53.

Now if you must stay,you would watch, 17 spins 1 repeat, so a fast trot, countback shows its fast. Now the old brain will be screaming go for the repeat, but like i have said those 1x are getting more expensive to bet.
Now obviously we know whats going to happen, so lets assume you go for it, 16 L+17=33 L, those 2 bets have got no value now, so 18(*2) 36, so if it wins its 33+36=69 would give +3, so its best to leave with the early profit and restart.
KTF no betting for repeats, the larger number, who do you favour.


Okay safe old GUT no bets till 21st spin, but would you fancy going for the non-hit after 8 on the trot, as Winkel says if not sure then leave it alone, he could not make it any plainer.
So you would be watching the trot theres that word the trot, if adding score is to complicated then GUT is not for you. It might be easier to see the trot in the KTF column, as i say use both to make a decision.

Only one repeat in the first 20 and 19 non hit.
That screams BET BET BET the repeaters.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 25, 12:19 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 25, 07:40 AM 2016
24
18
18
33
3
4
5
12
24
20
----------
20
33
16
6
4
11
33
33
2
5
20
10
32
32
19
15
14
14
11
32
32
3
11
7
12
6
4
7
31
35

Look at those repeaters  :-[
Anyone wanna try ?

Using GUT and following the trot the attached sheet shows how I would have played it.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 25, 12:56 PM 2016
One question in red below:
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 25, 07:31 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  KTF +53 #36

So as per usual the larger group of non-hit, hit more than the 1x, so +£53.

Now if you must stay,you would watch, 17 spins 1 repeat, so a fast trot, countback shows its fast. Now the old brain will be screaming go for the repeat, but like i have said those 1x are getting more expensive to bet.
Now obviously we know whats going to happen, so lets assume you go for it, 16 L+17=33 L, those 2 bets have got no value now, so 18(*2) 36, so if it wins its 33+36=69 would give +3, so its best to leave with the early profit and restart.
KTF no betting for repeats, the larger number, who do you favour.
Of course you would bet the larger number. But one question when the repeaters go from 11 -> 19 should it not be in favor to bet the repeaters in that case? On your spin #20? Because after that the repeaters are more then the unhit..

Okay safe old GUT no bets till 21st spin, but would you fancy going for the non-hit after 8 on the trot, as Winkel says if not sure then leave it alone, he could not make it any plainer.
So you would be watching the trot theres that word the trot, if adding score is to complicated then GUT is not for you. It might be easier to see the trot in the KTF column, as i say use both to make a decision.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 25, 01:09 PM 2016
Tuddilue
KTF players would not see that as they would have moved.
But yes after spin 20 yes repeats has got to be the bet,
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 25, 01:37 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 25, 01:09 PM 2016
Tuddilue
KTF players would not see that as they would have moved.
But yes after spin 20 yes repeats has got to be the bet,
Yes I understand that. Just that the more I read about the GUT and understand the difference between unhit and repeaters the more I see other opportunities. Thanks for your view on it!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 25, 06:08 PM 2016
In regards to this method of play what does 15/15 refer to
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 25, 08:13 PM 2016
and to add to my last ?, what is considered a bust? what is our stop loss
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 25, 09:46 PM 2016
Well I finally did it.
I signed up to play Euro roulette on our canadian government regulated website.
This is not a live dealer setup and I do not really like playing against software RNG but after checking into the system extensively I decided to give it a try.

Attached is my play sheet.
BR-$400

I had a beautiful count, I always hated calling it the trot, at spin #15  of 13 Unhit and only 2 repeaters coming in.
Here we go I thought and started betting on spin #16

At spin#20 I was up $73 and the count was still way in our favour of the repeats so I decided to go for 4 or 5 more wins.
At spin #26 I considered quitting but gave it one more try after all I was only risking $18 to make $54 and the odds were with me so I made the bet and won.

I quit on spin #27 with a profit of $271 in only 12 spins and a maximum bet of $56.

Now I have to say that with this setup there are no free spins so the first 15 spins were done with $1 on red and black so only the 0 would hurt me. Total risk to get the numbers was only $30 but still I hate placing a bet that can only break even or lose.
The one positive thing is that there is no time limit for betting.

If anybody else has experience with Canadian OLG Online roulette I would love to hear about any experiences they may have had.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 25, 09:48 PM 2016
congrats

awesome win

on the rng how did you get 10 spins? bet red and black 10 times?

sorry i re read and answered my question
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 26, 12:25 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 25, 08:13 PM 2016
and to add to my last ?, what is considered a bust? what is our stop loss
I will try to answer your questions :
+1/-1 does it recovers?  Yes
Where did you see 15/15? Is it on a KTF sheet?
Stop loss? I'm using a bankroll of 400 and was expecting to stop when that blows. But it has never happened to me. At most I have been down 200 but it has always recovered. But I expect it to blow sometime  :wink:

If you have more questions just ask them!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 04:46 AM 2016
Topman Dave
Yes thats the annoying part having to pay for a number. Is it minimum unit $1, can it be split to .20 or .25 cent units.

So this is 14 unique with +1/-1, remove the hit unique.
Have you been testing this on numbers from the gov site, will you build a data base on this sites spins? is there a marquee of previous spins, where whilst collecting your spins, you could watch how those unique come in your spins, if say 8 of your spins, those already there have not hit, so could you not combine those spins together and bet for the repeat?

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 05:25 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  26.2.16  +£57 #35
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 26, 07:51 AM 2016
Good one!
I saw something I missed before in the first 10. If there are repeats you just go over them? In this you have 2 repeaters. I just waits to I have 10 unique, but this I think is wrong or?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 08:57 AM 2016
Yes tuddilue what evers left after the 10 you go with, nothing wrong waiting for 10, but you might miss 2 wins, then again you might get 2 repeats.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 26, 09:07 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 26, 08:57 AM 2016
Yes tuddilue what evers left after the 10 you go with, nothing wrong waiting for 10, but you might miss 2 wins, then again you might get 2 repeats.
Yes when I goes through my old sheets I can see that mistake, that I miss 2 wins.

A little embarrassing but I learn and will start directly after 10 and not waiting for 10 unique.. :embarrassed:

Thanks for the confirmation!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Feb 26, 09:45 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 26, 05:25 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  26.2.16  +£57 #35

Nottophammer,

Good Job on this.

Can you run your numbers after 35,  so 5, 6, 2 are the first 3 numbers...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Feb 26, 11:22 AM 2016
@ Azim

Numbers are on the sheet:

0 0 27 34 24 6 33 27 6 2
12 1 7 3 21 35 5 6 2 32
36 9 28 16 0 15 16 0 6 11
31 14 34 30 4 15 24 9 18 6
24 9 0 22 8 1 12 8 14 22
32 11 28 16 2 2 32 11 32 27
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 26, 12:00 PM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Feb 26, 09:45 AM 2016
Nottophammer,

Good Job on this.

Can you run your numbers after 35,  so 5, 6, 2 are the first 3 numbers...

I know you referred your enquiry to Notto but I thought you may be interested in how I would have played it.
Remember that I am betting for the repeats to hit and then removing them using a +1/-1 progression.
This is not the KTF way.

I ran the complete sequence so that you could see all of the numbers had you continued to the end.
Based on the way the numbers were going I personally would have stopped at spin #27.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 26, 12:14 PM 2016
Anybody. Whats 15/15?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 26, 12:25 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 26, 04:46 AM 2016
Topman Dave
Yes thats the annoying part having to pay for a number. Is it minimum unit $1, can it be split to .20 or .25 cent units.

So this is 14 unique with +1/-1, remove the hit unique.
Have you been testing this on numbers from the gov site, will you build a data base on this sites spins? is there a marquee of previous spins, where whilst collecting your spins, you could watch how those unique come in your spins, if say 8 of your spins, those already there have not hit, so could you not combine those spins together and bet for the repeat?

-notto

Yes it's $1 min bet so to obtain the initial sequence I need to bet $2 ie. ($1 Red+$1 Black)

I bet for previous repeats to hit so yes I am betting for 14 uniques with +1/-1 progression.

I did not do any testing but just played for the repeats as I would had I gone in to the B&M.
I do have a record of the spins but so far I have only played 1 game online.
I do plan to play another game there today but was not planning on posting a sheet for it unless I lost in which case I would have as a warning to others that this is still gambling and I have no doubts that I will lose sooner or later.
What do you mean by a database?

Yes there is a marquee and I am not sure what you mean in the area above I marked in red.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 26, 12:26 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 26, 12:14 PM 2016
Anybody. Whats 15/15?

Where did you see it mentioned?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 01:36 PM 2016
Hi Celtic

Looks good that sheet, i'll spend sometime looking at it.

I've just come back from the bookies and both shops, all machines being used, some playing slots.
But theres one player doing his tank, a win from last week 2,000 mentioned, all gone now plus another 1500, smacking the machine,cursing no one wins etc,etc. Well you know what he is plasterer

Celtic,
okay that marquee, in the bookies we can have 10,11 or 12 previous numbers from the last player, so lets assume yours shows 15, like good casinos have.
Those 15 numbers can be unique to you as you have just arrived, now check to see if they have repeated. Now depending on how they repeat, if say it shows repeat at spin 2 and 6,then the last 9 are unique, as you collect your 1st 10 spins keep an eye on those 9 + yours to see if they have repeated, if you've had 6 spins that would make 15 unique, so you could bet for a repeat.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 26, 02:25 PM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Feb 26, 11:22 AM 2016
@ Azim

Numbers are on the sheet:

0 0 27 34 24 6 33 27 6 2
12 1 7 3 21 35 5 6 2 32
36 9 28 16 0 15 16 0 6 11
31 14 34 30 4 15 24 9 18 6
24 9 0 22 8 1 12 8 14 22
32 11 28 16 2 2 32 11 32 27

Azims asking to redo the sheet using the numbers in red above with KTF.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 02:33 PM 2016
But we dont carry on,we jump/restart on a new wheel
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 26, 02:46 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 26, 01:36 PM 2016
Hi Celtic

Looks good that sheet, i'll spend sometime looking at it.

I've just come back from the bookies and both shops, all machines being used, some playing slots.
But theres one player doing his tank, a win from last week 2,000 mentioned, all gone now plus another 1500, smacking the machine,cursing no one wins etc,etc. Well you know what he is plasterer

Celtic,
okay that marquee, in the bookies we can have 10,11 or 12 previous numbers from the last player, so lets assume yours shows 15, like good casinos have.
Those 15 numbers can be unique to you as you have just arrived, now check to see if they have repeated. Now depending on how they repeat, if say it shows repeat at spin 2 and 6,then the last 9 are unique, as you collect your 1st 10 spins keep an eye on those 9 + yours to see if they have repeated, if you've had 6 spins that would make 15 unique, so you could bet for a repeat.

My experience with plasterers is that most of them have no clue what they are doing.
Here's a plasterer story for you.
Last week at the B&M I had one guy that was betting the even money bets and when I started to bet he saw me betting 14 numbers and he decided I was just throwing 14 chips out randomly. He started plastering with no plan in mind. I cashed out with about $100 win and he turned and blamed me for taking all the winning numbers off the wheel and actually expected me to reimburse him the $200+ he had lost so far. I told him to keep trying because his luck was bound to change and I got the hell out of there. Gotta laugh at some of these yahoos.

Thank you for the marquee explanation.

I still do not feel good about playing against online RNG software even though I have heard nothing negative about the OLG site in Canada.
I started a topic asking for feedback on the site but have not seen any replies yet.
I will play one more game later today and see what happens.

By the way did you notice Azim dropped in?
He requested that you re KTF the JJ 26/2/16 sheet starting about 17 numbers later.

I did it but did not post because I did not want you to feel that I was hijacking the thread.

-Celtic

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 03:02 PM 2016
Azim just done the red #'s and this is exactly why we leave with the +57, this why i say go to another table and start with 37 #'s that are due.
But Keep the Faith
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 5 36
2 6 35
3 2 34
4 32 33
5 36 32
6 9 31
7 28 30
8 16 29
9 0 28 stake
10 15 27 non-hit return
11 16 r 1 27 0 -27
12 0 r 2 54 0 -81
13 6 r 3 81 0 -162
14 11 26 4 108 144 -126
15 31 25 3 78 108 -96
16 14 24 2 50 72 -74
17 34 23 1 24 36 -62
18 30 22 1 23 36 -49
19 4 21 1 22 36 -35
20 15 r 1 21 0 -56
21 24 20 2 42 72 -26
22 9 r 1 20 0 -46
23 18 19 2 40 72 -14
24 6 r 1 19 0 -33
25 24 r 2 38 0 -71
26 9 r 3 57 0 -128
27 0 r 4 76 0 -204
28 22 18 5 95 180 -119
29 8 17 4 72 144 -47
30 1 16 3 51 108 10 stop
31 12 15 2 32 72 50
32 8
33 14
34 22
35 32
36 11
37 28
38 16
39 2
40 2
41 32
42 11
43 32
44 27
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 26, 03:47 PM 2016
See my comment in brown below...
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 26, 02:46 PM 2016
My experience with plasterers is that most of them have no clue what they are doing.
Here's a plasterer story for you.
Last week at the B&M I had one guy that was betting the even money bets and when I started to bet he saw me betting 14 numbers and he decided I was just throwing 14 chips out randomly. He started plastering with no plan in mind. I cashed out with about $100 win and he turned and blamed me for taking all the winning numbers off the wheel and actually expected me to reimburse him the $200+ he had lost so far. I told him to keep trying because his luck was bound to change and I got the hell out of there. Gotta laugh at some of these yahoos.

Thank you for the marquee explanation.

I still do not feel good about playing against online RNG software even though I have heard nothing negative about the OLG site in Canada.
I started a topic asking for feedback on the site but have not seen any replies yet.
I will play one more game later today and see what happens.
I saw your topic but I have never played on that site. But I have played a lot on online sites. Nowadays I play most on bwin. My experience is that RNG is always difficult to beat. You get the feeling that they know what you are betting at and when you loose you can always blame on that feeling...

But when you are betting KTF you get more knowledge about what the RNG is doing. You are getting a feeling of safety. That you know what is happening and that they can't cheat you. Because if you see that they cheat you you can always leave and stop playing...

So my advice is to you try to play that RNG and see what the feeling is that you get. You have so much knowledge about KTF and GUT so they should have really hard time to cheat you... Come back and report after because it will be really interesting for us..  Best of luck now!   

By the way did you notice Azim dropped in?
He requested that you re KTF the JJ 26/2/16 sheet starting about 17 numbers later.

I did it but did not post because I did not want you to feel that I was hijacking the thread.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Feb 26, 03:52 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 26, 03:02 PM 2016
Azim just done the red #'s and this is exactly why we leave with the +57, this why i say go to another table and start with 37 #'s that are due.
But Keep the Faith
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 5 36
2 6 35
3 2 34
4 32 33
5 36 32
6 9 31
7 28 30
8 16 29
9 0 28 stake
10 15 27 non-hit return
11 16 r 1 27 0 -27
12 0 r 2 54 0 -81
13 6 r 3 81 0 -162
14 11 26 4 108 144 -126
15 31 25 3 78 108 -96
16 14 24 2 50 72 -74
17 34 23 1 24 36 -62
18 30 22 1 23 36 -49
19 4 21 1 22 36 -35
20 15 r 1 21 0 -56
21 24 20 2 42 72 -26
22 9 r 1 20 0 -46
23 18 19 2 40 72 -14
24 6 r 1 19 0 -33
25 24 r 2 38 0 -71
26 9 r 3 57 0 -128
27 0 r 4 76 0 -204
28 22 18 5 95 180 -119
29 8 17 4 72 144 -47
30 1 16 3 51 108 10 stop
31 12 15 2 32 72 50
32 8
33 14
34 22
35 32
36 11
37 28
38 16
39 2
40 2
41 32
42 11
43 32
44 27
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60



The point I was trying to make for everyone was even after the 14/15 unique numbers, play KTF keeping the faith you will end up in a profit.

In this case the TV show started at 00 what if it had started with 5 6 2 or any other place on the number's.

Try and work the number's with every number as being the first number of the sequence.

Don't be greedy and stop at 50. Start again.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Feb 26, 04:11 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 26, 01:36 PM 2016


I've just come back from the bookies and both shops, all machines being used, some playing slots.
But theres one player doing his tank, a win from last week 2,000 mentioned, all gone now plus another 1500, smacking the machine,cursing no one wins etc,etc. Well you know what he is plasterer



:xd:  I call them Woody Woodpecker!!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 26, 04:26 PM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Feb 26, 03:52 PM 2016
Don't be greedy and stop at 50. Start again.

Greed and a small BR.
This is the casino's favourite combination for their player's to have.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: joiner29 on Feb 26, 05:19 PM 2016
Hi played KTF at sky vegas fun mode great results so deposited £40 and played for real 5p units stopping around 40-50 unit wins then restarting, went up to £49 then it was as if the software could tell what I was betting and it tanked. Maybe a warning to stay away from sky vegas, anybody recommend honest RNG sites
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 26, 05:28 PM 2016
Joiner. Has happened to me too. Fun mode is fun. Real mode is not
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 26, 05:34 PM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Feb 25, 01:37 PM 2016
Yes I understand that. Just that the more I read about the GUT and understand the difference between unhit and repeaters the more I see other opportunities. Thanks for your view on it!

Ive just came down with a cough. Its like a HACK. I dont really want to HACK i hope i get better soon

The thing with humans is we seldom can keep secrets. We always somehow give ourselves away

I know what you have been doing

A little computer wiz huh?

1)Mr J's deleted emssages appear on vls
2) nathans messages deleted and who came to the rescue? you did
3) you sent me word for word a PM i sent someone else

You must be "smart" but not that smart

Yes i talked sh*t about you in a PM i have no problem admitting that

Piss off
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 05:56 PM 2016
Quote from: joiner29 on Feb 26, 05:19 PM 2016
Hi played KTF at sky vegas fun mode great results so deposited £40 and played for real 5p units stopping around 40-50 unit wins then restarting, went up to £49 then it was as if the software could tell what I was betting and it tanked. Maybe a warning to stay away from sky vegas, anybody recommend honest RNG sites
You stay on, just restarted another 10 spins? if thats the case, i would logged off, waited 30 minutes then started, in that time would if its RNG the programme moved on?
If you use the sheet i use did you write countback, I/some agree 15 non-hit in 30 spins is fair, so with countback you could see if it exaggerates runs of repeats.
At spins 11-20 the non-hit are the larger group, so 5 non-hit would be fair, but if say 3 non-hit,not fair, even on uk FOBT's i've seen only 3 non-hit, but that is very rare.
Have you looked in Jackpot joy average document, you can see the max spins for non-hit in 60 games, i'll put an up todate copy up, later
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 05:58 PM 2016
I'm posting something in Are there really 37 possible topic.
Thinking aloud, never know someone might save me some time.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Feb 26, 06:00 PM 2016
I have a non-rude RNG question, I honestly dont know the answer. Lets say 5 of you were playing at the same time, same table at the same RNG casino. Do you ALL have the SAME numbers at the same time?

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 06:03 PM 2016
Ken i can't answer as i only use the RNG in uk betting shops ( FOBT's)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 06:52 PM 2016
Up date on Jackpot spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 26, 07:08 PM 2016
If you look in doc
in the max hit cells  G 81 to O81, if you drag over,you should see on task bar Average is 5, count is 9  and sum 45.

So if you was to bet for the non-hits  in G81-O81 using a 5 step progression, it would only be in columns m,n and o that you would lose, M 2L's, N 1L, O 1L
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: whoisthewomanme on Feb 26, 07:22 PM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Feb 26, 06:00 PM 2016
I have a non-rude RNG question, I honestly dont know the answer. Lets say 5 of you were playing at the same time, same table at the same RNG casino. Do you ALL have the SAME numbers at the same time?

Ken

Hi Ken,

The numbers would be different for each player unless it was considered one of the "multiplayer" RNG games.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Feb 26, 07:28 PM 2016
Quote from: whoisthewomanme on Feb 26, 07:22 PM 2016
Hi Ken,

The numbers would be different for each player unless it was considered one of the "multiplayer" RNG games.

Different numbers is a dead give away for fraud against players. Places like C. Casino, everyone gets the SAME numbers. Hard to believe any fraud there and its a live wheel.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Wally Gator on Feb 26, 09:24 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 26, 12:00 PM 2016
I know you referred your enquiry to Notto but I thought you may be interested in how I would have played it.
Remember that I am betting for the repeats to hit and then removing them using a +1/-1 progression.
This is not the KTF way.

I ran the complete sequence so that you could see all of the numbers had you continued to the end.
Based on the way the numbers were going I personally would have stopped at spin #27.

-Celtic

Celtic,

Wanted to ensure I'm understanding your play.  It appears you are waiting for 20 spins, begin +1/-1 play on spin 21 and then dropping each repeat as it wins.  You are also not adding new numbers to the mix.  Is that accurate?

Many thanks,

WG
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: whoisthewomanme on Feb 26, 11:10 PM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Feb 26, 07:28 PM 2016
Different numbers is a dead give away for fraud against players. Places like C. Casino, everyone gets the SAME numbers. Hard to believe any fraud there and its a live wheel.

Ken

How do you figure it is fraud against players? Everyone is playing their own individual game. Each spin the RNG software spits out a "random" number.

Now if it were a "multiplayer" RNG game where everyone is playing on the same wheel at the same time... it gives everyone the same number. If it gave different numbers in that situation, sure that would be fraud.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Feb 26, 11:40 PM 2016
Quote from: joiner29 on Feb 26, 05:19 PM 2016
Hi played KTF at sky vegas fun mode great results so deposited £40 and played for real 5p units stopping around 40-50 unit wins then restarting, went up to £49 then it was as if the software could tell what I was betting and it tanked. Maybe a warning to stay away from sky vegas, anybody recommend honest RNG sites

Sorry to hear about your loss.

I have a question for you:
You looking for an honest RNG, did you expect to buy a house with 40pounds?  You doubled up your bankroll by playing 5cent's
and you decided to keep playing.

Why can't you say you got GREEDY!!!!  Instead of saying that "the software could tell what I was betting and it tanked"?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 26, 11:55 PM 2016
Quote from: Wally Gator on Feb 26, 09:24 PM 2016
Celtic,

Wanted to ensure I'm understanding your play.  It appears you are waiting for 20 spins, begin +1/-1 play on spin 21 and then dropping each repeat as it wins.  You are also not adding new numbers to the mix.  Is that accurate?

Many thanks,

WG

-Gator

What you say is true for that particular session.
Some things are constant in all my sessions and some are not.
Compare the session sheet you are referring to to the one in Post #335
In that session I started betting at spin #16.

Constant:
1. Playing for repeats to hit. (THIS IS NOT PLAYING THE KTF WAY)
2. Progression is normally +1/-1 (see below)
3. Any hit numbers are removed

Variables
1. Entry point to start betting - This is the toughest part of this and is based on Winkels GUT strategy, Nottos avg sheets, LOTT, and the explanations of these in the posts of Winkel, Azim, TwoCatsSam and Nottophammer. This has to be learned and I am by no means at a level of competencancy comparable to the above mentioned people but I do quite well and just keep moving forward.

2. If the progression is high, say at the seventh or eighth level, and I win a spin I may drop the progression right back to the 1st level if a new high is hit. Because the overall stakes are lower than KTF but the win amount is the same, it is possible to actually lose 3 spins in a row and be at a new high with a win on the next spin.

I hope this helps answer your question.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tacwell on Feb 27, 12:07 AM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Feb 26, 11:40 PM 2016
Sorry to hear about your loss.

I have a question for you:
You looking for an honest RNG, did you expect to buy a house with 40pounds?  You doubled up your bankroll by playing 5cent's
and you decided to keep playing.

Why can't you say you got GREEDY!!!!  Instead of saying that "the software could tell what I was betting and it tanked"?

£40 - £49 is nowhere near doubling his bankroll and by no means GREEDY. Not in my world anyway.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Feb 27, 12:08 AM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Feb 26, 11:22 AM 2016
@ Azim

Numbers are on the sheet:

0 0 27 34 24 6 33 27 6 2
12 1 7 3 21 35 5 6 2 32
36 9 28 16 0 15 16 0 6 11
31 14 34 30 4 15 24 9 18 6
24 9 0 22 8 1 12 8 14 22
32 11 28 16 2 2 32 11 32 27

I know what the number's are.

For those that are following this thread.
Instead of starting from 0 0 let's say you walk to the table in this case we log in online.

We see the number's :

35 5 6 2 32
36 9 28 16 0 15 16 0 6 11
31 14 34 30 4 15 24 9 18 6
24 9 0 22 8 1 12 8 14 22
32 11 28 16 2 2 32 11 32 27

Do the charting and see how you would have played that session.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Feb 27, 12:11 AM 2016
Quote from: Tacwell on Feb 27, 12:07 AM 2016
£40 - £49 is nowhere near doubling his bankroll and by no means GREEDY. Not in my world anyway.

Sorry I stand corrected.  However do the math 9pounds for 5pence is 180 unit's.
How many did you expect to make in that session? 

Requirement is 400 units so I give you you had 800 unit's the process is to stop after 50 unit's  u made 180 unit's what did you expect to make enough to go buy a house?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 27, 01:57 AM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Feb 27, 12:08 AM 2016
I know what the number's are.

For those that are following this thread.
Instead of starting from 0 0 let's say you walk to the table in this case we log in online.

We see the number's :

35 5 6 2 32
36 9 28 16 0 15 16 0 6 11
31 14 34 30 4 15 24 9 18 6
24 9 0 22 8 1 12 8 14 22
32 11 28 16 2 2 32 11 32 27

Do the charting and see how you would have played that session.

I  would have played KTF for the first 10 spins and quit at $50 profit and then bet for repeaters for 3 wins and another $70 profit.
Leave with total session profit of $120 in 15 spins.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: joiner29 on Feb 27, 02:22 AM 2016
Sorry you think I was greedy I played as per the rules as I see them 40- 50 unit win then leave that is £2-£2.50 win s wow so greedy
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 27, 03:53 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 27.2.16  KTF  +£50 #31
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 27, 04:15 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 26, 11:55 PM 2016
-Gator

What you say is true for that particular session.
Some things are constant in all my sessions and some are not.
Compare the session sheet you are referring to to the one in Post #335
In that session I started betting at spin #16.

Constant:
1. Playing for repeats to hit. (THIS IS NOT PLAYING THE KTF WAY)
2. Progression is normally +1/-1 (see below)
3. Any hit numbers are removed

Variables
1. Entry point to start betting - This is the toughest part of this and is based on Winkels GUT strategy, Nottos avg sheets, LOTT, and the explanations of these in the posts of Winkel, Azim, TwoCatsSam and Nottophammer. This has to be learned and I am by no means at a level of competencancy comparable to the above mentioned people but I do quite well and just keep moving forward.

2. If the progression is high, say at the seventh or eighth level, and I win a spin I may drop the progression right back to the 1st level if a new high is hit. Because the overall stakes are lower than KTF but the win amount is the same, it is possible to actually lose 3 spins in a row and be at a new high with a win on the next spin.

I hope this helps answer your question.

-Celtic

Celts
its getting interesting, keep going, we are all interested,those 0X's then 1X's ain't they good
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 27, 07:59 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 27, 04:15 AM 2016
Celts
its getting interesting, keep going, we are all interested,those 0X's then 1X's ain't they good

Could have played todays JJ numbers the same way but after winning on KTF I would have waited until spin#18 to go after the repeats

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 28, 06:16 AM 2016
Oooooowkay , back on topic.
This is probably one of the best method I've seen here. It's unbelievable how it keeps winning. And with progression and all those numbers.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 28, 06:37 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 28.2.16   KTF +53  #27

37th spin is 24th non-hit, if you now bet those 24,1X's, win, bet the 23,1X's,win, bet the 22,1X's win  +39

Early days with this,but looks good.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 28, 08:39 AM 2016
Some info ;
Betting on spin 11 ONLY for a unhit.
On 1400 rng sessions

Wins : 1080
Loss : 317

(Let's say a win is +9 and a loss is -28 on average )
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Feb 28, 09:05 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 28, 08:39 AM 2016
Some info ;
Betting on spin 11 ONLY for a unhit.
On 1400 rng sessions

Wins : 1080
Loss : 317

(Let's say a win is +9 and a loss is -28 on average )

Not bad Denzie....roughly +0.6 of a unit every 11 spins is nothing to be sniffed at if it continues to hold up.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 28, 09:07 AM 2016
This from the avg doc, betting for the 11th non-hit, 65 games, win 51 1st spin,most spins todate 4 spins
11
1
1
1
1
1
1
2
1
1
1
1
3
1
2
1
1
1
1
1
1
1



3
1
2
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
2
3
1
1
1
1
3
1
4
1
1
1
1



1
3
1
1
2
3
1
1
2
1
1
1
2
1






65

4

1.338462

11

51
7
6
1
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 28, 09:12 AM 2016
Quote from: wiggy on Feb 28, 09:05 AM 2016
Not bad Denzie....roughly +0.6 of a unit every 11 spins is nothing to be sniffed at if it continues to hold up.
If if if .... that's the million dollar question.

It's not every 11th spin though. I start a session with 10 virtual spins. Then bet on spin 11. Win or lose I keep clicking till spin 37 and do it again and again and. .... or simply refresh the session. So of course this is for rng only . Just thought I mention it ...maybe someone can help with rx ?  :)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 28, 09:16 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 28, 09:07 AM 2016
This from the avg doc, betting for the 11th non-hit, 65 games, win 51 1st spin,most spins todate 4 spins
11
1
1
1
1
1
1
2
1
1
1
1
3
1
2
1
1
1
1
1
1
1



3
1
2
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
2
3
1
1
1
1
3
1
4
1
1
1
1



1
3
1
1
2
3
1
1
2
1
1
1
2
1






65

4

1.338462

11

51
7
6
1


That's around + 100 flat betting
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Feb 28, 09:24 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 28, 09:12 AM 2016


It's not every 11th spin though. I start a session with 10 virtual spins. Then bet on spin 11. Win or lose I keep clicking till spin 37 and do it again and again and. ....


Cheers Denzie.....kind of like allowing the cycle to reset itself. That's interesting, I suppose you could decide not to bet if their were too many repeats in the first 10 spins. Could be an indicator that the repeats are too 'hot'. Alternatively....10 straight uniques and it's maybe a good sign.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 28, 09:31 AM 2016
Quote from: wiggy on Feb 28, 09:24 AM 2016
Cheers Denzie.....kind of like allowing the cycle to reset itself. That's interesting, I suppose you could decide not to bet if their were too many repeats in the first 10 spins. Could be an indicator that the repeats are too 'hot'. Alternatively....10 straight uniques and it's maybe a good sign.

Yep, it's about those cycles.  But it's probably just coz my feeling tell me to play that way .

About those repeaters. ..if we get 8 -9-10 non-hits in our 10 spins...it doesn't make much difference. I've tested that too. But at the end 9 non-hit came out as the winner.

Of course it needs much more testing. After all. ...what is 1000 or 10000 spins in roulette?  We've seen many systems crash after that many spins.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 29, 04:44 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 29.2.16  KTF  +44 #4

Another month gone
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 05:06 AM 2016
This just keeps on winning. Can you send that one losing session please?  I would like to take a look at it.

As for me , I'm testing that bet on 11th spin thing. Just curious how it does on the long run.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 29, 06:53 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 29, 04:44 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 29.2.16  KTF  +44 #4

Another month gone
Impressive!  Do you do something special when it is new month? I mean do you restart your avg document? For example..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 29, 06:54 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 29, 05:06 AM 2016
This just keeps on winning. Can you send that one losing session please?  I would like to take a look at it.

As for me , I'm testing that bet on 11th spin thing. Just curious how it does on the long run.
Can you send the losing session to me as well? Or put it up on the forum?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: joiner29 on Feb 29, 06:56 AM 2016
Hi noto could you tell me what table you play at jackpot joy
Joiner29
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: joiner29 on Feb 29, 06:57 AM 2016
Sorry Jackpot247
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 29, 07:41 AM 2016
Quote from: joiner29 on Feb 29, 06:57 AM 2016
Sorry Jackpot247

Joiner, all i know is i tape the programme on sky 178, ITV. Its aired after midnight, oh yeah its an airball machine, when it goes off air i understand you can still use the same wheel.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 29, 07:44 AM 2016
tuddilue Here they are
jackpotjoy 22.1.16
33
33
25
3
23
1
14
22
2
23
34
31
1
1
7
2
16
22
5
5
16
22
19
20
7
30
34
20
22
33
12
36
27
14
4
4
24
1
11
35
14
26
11
30
24
5
1
0
33
13
3
30
30
4
16
24
4
26
29
27
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Feb 29, 07:58 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 29, 07:44 AM 2016
tuddilue Here they are
jackpotjoy 22.1.16
33
33
25
3
23
1
14
22
2
23
34
31
1
1
7
2
16
22
5
5
16
22
19
20
7
30
34
20
22
33
12
36
27
14
4
4
24
1
11
35
14
26
11
30
24
5
1
0
33
13
3
30
30
4
16
24
4
26
29
27
Thanks! I will play them later today and see how it goes!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 08:53 AM 2016
Yeah the original KTF gets a serious beating here. I like to wait first to see what's happening. This session I wouldn't bet.

I only bet when one side is really dominant. Then I bet the other side. If they go side by side as here I wouldn't bet. But that's coz on rng it's fast to get our spins.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 08:56 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 28, 08:39 AM 2016
Some info ;
Betting on spin 11 ONLY for a unhit.
On 1400 rng sessions

Wins : 1080
Loss : 317

(Let's say a win is +9 and a loss is -28 on average )

1800 sessions
Wins 1382
Loss 415
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 29, 09:15 AM 2016
This game lost way back. A few places to stop with a smaller loss than i showed of 655. But the idea is to KEEP THE FAITH with the +1/-1
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 33 36
2 33 r
3 25 35
4 3 34
5 23 33
6 1 32
7 14 31
8 22 30
9 2 29 stake
10 23 r non-hit return
11 34 28 1 29 36 7
12 31 27 1 28 36 15
13 1 r 1 27 0 -12
14 1 r 2 54 0 -66
15 7 26 3 81 108 -39
16 2 r 2 52 0 -91
17 16 25 3 78 108 -61
18 22 r 2 50 0 -111
19 5 24 3 75 108 -78
20 5 r 2 48 0 -126
21 16 r 3 72 0 -198
22 22 r 4 96 0 -294
23 19 23 5 120 180 -234
24 20 22 4 92 144 -182
25 7 r 3 66 0 -248
26 30 21 4 88 144 -192
27 34 r 3 63 0 -255
28 20 r 4 84 0 -339
29 22 r 5 105 0 -444
30 33 r 6 126 0 -570
31 12 20 7 147 252 -465
32 36 19 6 120 216 -369
33 27 18 5 95 180 -284
34 14 r 4 72 0 -356
35 4 17 5 90 180 -266
36 4 r 4 68 0 -334
37 24 16 5 85 180 -239
38 1 r 4 64 0 -303
39 11 15 5 80 180 -203
40 35 14 4 60 144 -119
41 14 r 3 42 0 -161
42 26 13 4 56 144 -73
43 11 r 3 39 0 -112
44 30 r 4 52 0 -164
45 24 r 5 65 0 -229
46 5 r 6 78 0 -307
47 1 r 7 91 0 -398
48 0 12 8 104 288 -214
49 33 r 7 84 0 -298
50 13 11 8 96 288 -106
51 3 r 7 77 0 -183
52 30 r 8 88 0 -271
53 30 r 9 99 0 -370
54 4 r 10 110 0 -480
55 16 r 11 121 0 -601
56 24 r 12 132 0 -733
57 4 r 13 143 0 -876
58 26 r 14 154 0 -1030
59 29 10 15 165 540 -655
60 27


Look where you could have stopped, spin 40, it has got exactly the 15 non-hit in 30 spins. Damage was done in spins 21-30 only 3 non-hit. Countback idea, that weren't about yet, shows the story.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 29, 09:17 AM 2016
The actual sheet is in jackpot joy 1st 12#'s in x spins reply 69 real roulette spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 10:28 AM 2016
Damn , I've should had taken the early wins

26
22
3
17
28
20
0
10
28
34
------------
19
22
31
1
1
23
11
33
1
21
1
11
28
1
34
34
31
15
24
13
9
13
4
17
9
18
26
20
3
32
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 10:35 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 29, 09:15 AM 2016
This game lost way back. A few places to stop with a smaller loss than i showed of 655. But the idea is to KEEP THE FAITH with the +1/-1

After we almost recover. ...sometimes it's better to take a small loss. We know we get it back in our next sessions.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 29, 10:55 AM 2016
Im very cautious

When i try this real money im done after 2 losses. If i lose 11 and 12 im done

Ime goin for the early wins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 29, 11:08 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 29, 09:15 AM 2016
This game lost way back. A few places to stop with a smaller loss than i showed of 655. But the idea is to KEEP THE FAITH with the +1/-1
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 33 36
2 33 r
3 25 35
4 3 34
5 23 33
6 1 32
7 14 31
8 22 30
9 2 29 stake
10 23 r non-hit return
11 34 28 1 29 36 7
12 31 27 1 28 36 15
13 1 r 1 27 0 -12
14 1 r 2 54 0 -66
15 7 26 3 81 108 -39
16 2 r 2 52 0 -91
17 16 25 3 78 108 -61
18 22 r 2 50 0 -111
19 5 24 3 75 108 -78
20 5 r 2 48 0 -126
21 16 r 3 72 0 -198
22 22 r 4 96 0 -294
23 19 23 5 120 180 -234
24 20 22 4 92 144 -182
25 7 r 3 66 0 -248
26 30 21 4 88 144 -192
27 34 r 3 63 0 -255
28 20 r 4 84 0 -339
29 22 r 5 105 0 -444
30 33 r 6 126 0 -570
31 12 20 7 147 252 -465
32 36 19 6 120 216 -369
33 27 18 5 95 180 -284
34 14 r 4 72 0 -356
35 4 17 5 90 180 -266
36 4 r 4 68 0 -334
37 24 16 5 85 180 -239
38 1 r 4 64 0 -303
39 11 15 5 80 180 -203
40 35 14 4 60 144 -119
41 14 r 3 42 0 -161
42 26 13 4 56 144 -73
43 11 r 3 39 0 -112
44 30 r 4 52 0 -164
45 24 r 5 65 0 -229
46 5 r 6 78 0 -307
47 1 r 7 91 0 -398
48 0 12 8 104 288 -214
49 33 r 7 84 0 -298
50 13 11 8 96 288 -106
51 3 r 7 77 0 -183
52 30 r 8 88 0 -271
53 30 r 9 99 0 -370
54 4 r 10 110 0 -480
55 16 r 11 121 0 -601
56 24 r 12 132 0 -733
57 4 r 13 143 0 -876
58 26 r 14 154 0 -1030
59 29 10 15 165 540 -655
60 27


Look where you could have stopped, spin 40, it has got exactly the 15 non-hit in 30 spins. Damage was done in spins 21-30 only 3 non-hit. Countback idea, that weren't about yet, shows the story.

This is how I would have played it and how I would have been thinking during the session.

After the first 10 spins I would not have played KTF until I saw more spins.
After spin#12 we have an overall count of 10+3 and I am starting to lean towards betting repeats but still want more spins.
After spin#14 count is 10+1 and I am still thinking to bet repeats but still not convinced to start betting so wait.
The next 6 spins are choppy and after spin #20 the overall count is 13+3. To me looking even better to bet repeats but at this point I would still wait to see which way this os going to go.
Spin 21 and 22 are repeats and overall count is 13+1 lets see what happens to notto's 15 in 30 average in the next few spins is what I am thinking.
After next two spins the 15 in 30 average on nottos sheets has been met and I would have started to bet the repeats and looked for 3-4 wins starting at spin 25

Spin 25 wins 26 loses and the next 4 win.
Because of all the drama to this point I would have quit at spin 28 which would have been the third win for a profit of $62
If I continue:
Spin 29 wins for a profit of $84
Spin 30 wins for a profit of  $107

This where you have to curtail the greed monster and why I would have quit at the third win.

I hope this is informative to some.

-Celtic



Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 29, 11:11 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 29, 11:08 AM 2016
This is how I would have played it and more importantly how I would have been thinking during the session.

After the first 10 spins I would not have played KTF until I saw more spins.
After spin#12 we have an overall count of 10+3 and I am starting to lean towards betting repeats but still want more spins.
After spin#14 count is 10+1 and I am still thinking to bet repeats but still not convinced to start betting so wait.
The next 6 spins are choppy and after spin #20 the overall count is 13+3. To me looking even better to bet repeats but at this point I would still wait to see which way this os going to go.
Spin 21 and 22 are repeats and overall count is 13+1 lets see what happens to notto's 15 in 30 average in the next few spins is what I am thinking.
After next two spins the 15 in 30 average on nottos sheets has been met and I would have started to bet the repeats and looked for 3-4 wins starting at spin 25

Spin 25 wins 26 loses and the next 4 win.
Because of all the drama to this point I would have quit at spin 28 which would have been the third win for a profit of $62
If I continue:
Spin 29 wins for a profit of $84
Spin 30 wins for a profit of  $107

This where you have to curtail the greed monster and why I would have quit at the third win.

I hope this is informative to some.

-Celtic

Celtic why would u wait for more spins before playing ktf after spin 10
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 29, 11:14 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 29, 10:28 AM 2016
Damn , I've should had taken the early wins

26
22
3
17
28
20
0
10
28
34
------------
19
22
31
1
1
23
11
33
1
21
1
11
28
1
34
34
31
15
24
13
9
13
4
17
9
18
26
20
3
32

Are these numbers from one of your recent sessions?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 12:11 PM 2016
Yes , from today on Unibet RNG
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 29, 12:48 PM 2016

Date          win lose total
23.12.15 56
24.12.15 93
27.12.15 57
28.12.15 52
29.12.15 45
30.12.15 50
31.12.15 50
02.01.16 56
03.01.16 65
04.01.16 57
05.01.16 45
06.01.16 51
07.01.16 50
08.01.16 59
09.01.16 45
10.01.16 47
11.01.16 49
12.01.16 51
13.01.16 50
14.01.16 59
15.01.16 45
16.01.16 45
17.01.16 50
18.01.16 45
19.01.16 38
20.01.16 43
21.01.16 45 1398
22.01.16 655
23.01.16 52
24.01.16 50
25.01.16 38
26.01.16 50
27.01.16 38
28.01.16 57
29.01.16 48
30.01.16 54
31.01.16 56
01.02.16 46
02.02.16 51
03.02.16 45
04.02.16 54
05.02.16 46
06.02.16 39
07.02.16 45
08.02.16 42
09.02.16 44
10.02.16 53
11.02.16 34
12.02.16 38
13.02.16 47
14.02.16 45
15.02.16 50
16.02.16 59
17.02.16 45
18.02.16 56
19.02.16 29
20.02.16 59
21.02.16 45
22.02.16 66
23.02.16 38
24.02.16 51
25.02.16 53
26.02.16 57
27.02.16 50
28.02.16 53
29.02.16 44





        3225 655 2570
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 29, 12:53 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 29, 12:11 PM 2016
Yes , from today on Unibet RNG

-Dennie

If you run the numbers you will see that after spin #18 you the overall count is 15+2 so using Nottos 15 unhits in 30 spins this should be a flag that repeats should come very soon.

I love ones like this because your stake is only $15 and covers the Zero and you recover so much faster when you lose a spin.
Start betting on repeats at Spin #19 and this is what would have happened.


S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
19 1 R 15 1 15 36 21 21
20 21 14 1 14 -14 7
21 1 14 2 28 -28 -21
22 11 R 14 3 42 108 66 45
23 28 R 13 2 26 72 46 91
24 1 12 1 12 -12 79
25 34 R 12 2 24 72 48 127
26 34 11 1 11 -11 116
27 31 R 11 2 22 72 50 166
28 15 10 1 10 -10 156
29 24 10 2 20 -20 136
30 13 10 3 30 -30 106


I usually quit after 3 wins when betting repeats but the count is so good I would have gone for 4 wins, in this case +$127.00 but even the third win would have given you +$91.

So many ways to think about this one.
Just do not get greedy.

It would have been interesting to have more numbers and see how this one progressed.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 01:08 PM 2016
Celtic ,

Your way of playing this seems to do very good. How many sessions did you play like this ? Big dd?  Highest progression level ?

:)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 29, 01:40 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 29, 01:08 PM 2016
Celtic ,

Your way of playing this seems to do very good. How many sessions did you play like this ? Big dd?  Highest progression level ?

:)

Sometimes I think too good and am just waiting for a RFH.

As I said last week right now I am only playing for repeats and I have played in total maybe 12 - 15 sessions like this.
I've had progression levels to about 8 and DDs to $250 but that is rare because the stakes are lower than KTF and you recover a lot faster because of this.

As an example: On the JJ from hell that Notto posted earlier today from January 22  betting repeats the max drawdown was $32 and the maximum progression level was only 2. Look at post #406

As you know the MAIN trick is know when to start betting.
This I seem to be either quite good at or very very lucky.

You have to be careful of the greed factor and that was how I got to level 8 as mentioned above.
I did not lose the session but pissed away a few hundred dollars and I had already won about 7 times at that point.
I only aim for three wins when betting repeats but if the numbers are good, like in your case, I will go for 4, 5 maximum.

Hope this helps.

-Celtic

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 01:54 PM 2016
I'll post a session in a bit where I've got a ton of non - hitters. ...... very curious how you handle them.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 29, 02:06 PM 2016
Celtic when you play for repeats do you wait for a certain nunber of uniques?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Feb 29, 02:42 PM 2016
Ok here it is. Also a real session on Unibet.
Celtic....

23
25
8
19
28
26
12
33
34
3
-------------
9
23  r
36
10
9    r
18
5
31
11
26   r
1
8     r
21
13
3     r
17
16
27
14
31   r
2
4
14   r
20
26   r
20   r
30
11   r
7
24
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 29, 05:01 PM 2016
If you played just non-hit +56 #11
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Feb 29, 06:05 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 29, 12:48 PM 2016

Date          win lose total
23.12.15 56
24.12.15 93
27.12.15 57
28.12.15 52
29.12.15 45
30.12.15 50
31.12.15 50
02.01.16 56
03.01.16 65
04.01.16 57
05.01.16 45
06.01.16 51
07.01.16 50
08.01.16 59
09.01.16 45
10.01.16 47
11.01.16 49
12.01.16 51
13.01.16 50
14.01.16 59
15.01.16 45
16.01.16 45
17.01.16 50
18.01.16 45
19.01.16 38
20.01.16 43
21.01.16 45 1398
22.01.16 655
23.01.16 52
24.01.16 50
25.01.16 38
26.01.16 50
27.01.16 38
28.01.16 57
29.01.16 48
30.01.16 54
31.01.16 56
01.02.16 46
02.02.16 51
03.02.16 45
04.02.16 54
05.02.16 46
06.02.16 39
07.02.16 45
08.02.16 42
09.02.16 44
10.02.16 53
11.02.16 34
12.02.16 38
13.02.16 47
14.02.16 45
15.02.16 50
16.02.16 59
17.02.16 45
18.02.16 56
19.02.16 29
20.02.16 59
21.02.16 45
22.02.16 66
23.02.16 38
24.02.16 51
25.02.16 53
26.02.16 57
27.02.16 50
28.02.16 53
29.02.16 44





        3225 655 2570


very nice notto

question: on all the wins you have there, not including the big 600 loss, what was the largest draw down?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 29, 09:46 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Feb 29, 02:42 PM 2016
Ok here it is. Also a real session on Unibet.
Celtic....

23
25
8
19
28
26
12
33
34
3
-------------
9
23  r
36
10
9    r
18
5
31
11
26   r
1
8     r
21
13
3     r
17
16
27
14
31   r
2
4
14   r
20
26   r
20   r
30
11   r
7
24



-Dennie

OK-Remember I am betting for repeats.
Notto already posted re winning with KTF at spin #19.

Betting for repeats I notice at spin 17 the overall count is 15+3 so I will start betting for repeats starting at spin 18 and see how the count progresses.

At spin #25 I would have quit with +63 because I have my 3 wins and I do not like how choppy the flow is.

If you look closely you will see a total of 8 bets consisting of 5 losses and only three wins.
Maximum risk was $96
Where else can you lose more than you win and still come out ahead.

If you run the numbers for KTF you will have seven wins and 2 losses and place 9 bets with a maximum of $71 at risk.

As I said earlier with your first set of numbers it would have been nice to have more numbers because the main repeat run has not started yet and I am sure that I would have hung around and waited for the little buggers.

Also if you were really adventuresome you could have run KTF  from spin #11 and then continued with betting the repeats but I warn you it is stressful doing it that way. I have done it once or twice but you have watch the count like a hawk and play accordingly.



S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
18 31 16 1 16 -16 -16
19 11 16 2 32 -32 -48
20 26 R 16 3 48 108 60 12
21 1 15 1 15 -15 -3
22 8 R 15 2 30 72 42 39
23 21 14 1 14 -14 25
24 13 14 2 28 -28 -3
25 3 R 14 3 42 108 66 63



-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 29, 10:08 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 29, 02:06 PM 2016
Celtic when you play for repeats do you wait for a certain nunber of uniques?

-RG

I am not sure how to explain it.

I just follow the count, or trot as Winkel calls it in GUT, and look at the avg sheets that Notto has kept updated and posted.
When the count is favourable I start betting for repeats.

I do not want to scare you off but I would have to say that I have spent at least the better part of 100 hours studying Don't Knock It, Jackpot Joy, GUT, and several other related topics to get to where I am now and feel confident in winning.

This is still the only way I am playing and I am not interested in trying other methods/systems or strategies when playing with real money.

-Celtic


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Feb 29, 10:22 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Feb 29, 11:11 AM 2016
Celtic why would u wait for more spins before playing ktf after spin 10

I do not like the count at 10/8. It's just my thing that I do not like 20% of my inital working numbers to be repeats.
If you were playing for repeats you would never start betting at spin 11 but then again repeats are not KTF but an alternative if the count shows it is advantageous.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 01, 07:13 AM 2016
Well loaded plenty of games and info, only going to put the numbers up now.
If you do them on the sheet spins 58 to 61, Hmm
jackpotjoy 1.3.16
1 32
2 3
3 17
4 9
5 30
6 4
7 29
8 13
9 22
10 6
11 29
12 22
13 2
14 14
15 31
16 22
17 1
18 23
19 12
20 25
21 7
22 18
23 28
24 22
25 2
26 27
27 26
28 26
29 24
30 19
31 21
32 15
33 7
34 32
35 15
36 29
37 19
38 13
39 34
40 26
41 35
42 13
43 22
44 13
45 2
46 26
47 21
48 16
49 26
50 26
51 25
52 0
53 29
54 13
55 25
56 11
57 32
58 20
59 5
60 36

61 33
62 18
63 3
64 21
65 35
66 3
67 35
68 23
69 5
70 23
71 5
72 21
73 30
74 18
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 01, 07:36 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Feb 29, 11:08 AM 2016

After spin#12 we have an overall count of 10+3 and I am starting to lean towards betting repeats but still want more spins.
After spin#14 count is 10+1 and I am still thinking to bet repeats but still not convinced to start betting so wait.
The next 6 spins are choppy and after spin #20 the overall count is 13+3.
Spin 21 and 22 are repeats and overall count is 13+1
After next two spins the 15 in 30 average on nottos sheets has been met and I would have started to bet the repeats and looked for 3-4 wins starting at spin 25



-Celtic

Hey Celtic,

Few members are bit shy to ask it in the open.... they understand how you count the non-hit. But they don't understand how you count the repeaters. As for myself I'm having doubts too if I look at your sheets a few pages back vs your latest.

I keep it simple though. I did 3 sessions this morning going for the repeaters. The recovery is amazing.  But it's rng and I'm not going in if I get for example 15/9. I prefer around 15/1-2-3-4. On rng it takes 5 minutes and I got the right session to start.

Didn't bust a sweat.

Denzie
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 01, 08:04 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 01, 07:13 AM 2016
Well loaded plenty of games and info, only going to put the numbers up now.
If you do them on the sheet spins 58 to 61, Hmm
jackpotjoy 1.3.16
1 32
2 3
3 17
4 9
5 30
6 4
7 29
8 13
9 22
10 6
11 29
12 22
13 2
14 14
15 31
16 22
17 1
18 23
19 12
20 25
21 7
22 18
23 28
24 22
25 2
26 27
27 26
28 26
29 24
30 19
31 21
32 15
33 7
34 32
35 15
36 29
37 19
38 13
39 34
40 26
41 35
42 13
43 22
44 13
45 2
46 26
47 21
48 16
49 26
50 26
51 25
52 0
53 29
54 13
55 25
56 11
57 32
58 20
59 5
60 36

61 33
62 18
63 3
64 21
65 35
66 3
67 35
68 23
69 5
70 23
71 5
72 21
73 30
74 18


For ktf it's an easy one.
For repeaters I choose to go in after spin 18. Well that was a bumpy ride. At the end I made it though. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 01, 10:55 AM 2016
@ Celticknits

10 sessions played today  (rng)
+42
+79
+65
+79
+69
+48
+32
+42
+63
+85

From what I'm seeing it's best to wait till spin 18 to go in. Anything more early seems to get me 1 loss. I'll post it. Bit curious how you would handle this one.

11
31
21
3
36
8
27
25
13
28
------------ 10/0
35
0
24
18
26
6
5
2  --------- after this I go in
26   R
21   R
30
20
28   R
7
17
10
3      R
34
16
10    R
12
23
15
36    R
19
12    R
22
14
31    R
2      R
19    R
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 01, 11:12 AM 2016
denzie
looking good,nice profit
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 01, 11:24 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 01, 11:12 AM 2016
denzie
looking good,nice profit

It's all thx to you and Celticknits.
These results are going for repeaters.
But my other ktf comes out winning too.

So big  :thumbsup: to you guys
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 01, 01:29 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 01, 10:55 AM 2016
@ Celticknits

...........................
From what I'm seeing it's best to wait till spin 18 to go in. Anything more early seems to get me 1 loss. I'll post it. Bit curious how you would handle this one.
......................................................

Be careful and don't set anything in stone.
If you are only taking about spin #18 in this session fine.
The count should always be your guide.

I would have started betting in this session at spin #16 because of the 15 prior uniques in a row and using Nottos avg sheet as a guide.


S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
16  6 15 1 15 -15 -15
17   5 15 2 30 -30 -45
18   2 15 3 45 -45 -90     Not to worry yet
19  26 R 15 4 60 144 84 -6
20 21 R 14 3 42 108 66 60  New High Note the recovery in two wins. Made back the $90 + $60 extra.
21  30 13 1 13 -13 47  Reset P to 1
22 20 13 2 26 -26 21
23 28 R 13 3 39 108 69 90   Quit
24   7 12 1 12 -12 78
25 17 12 2 24 -24 54
26 10 12 3 36 -36 18
27 3 R 12 4 48 144 96 114


My personal rule is go for three wins and then depending on the count maybe 4.
In this case I would quit after 3 wins because the count is so ridiculous and I just don't trust going for 4 wins
In this case I would have made $24 more. Not worth it in my opinion and GREED WILL KILL YOU!!!!

I do not ever remember seeing 26 unhit/uniques in thirty spins on Nottos JJ sheets.

With 5 losses and only three wins to make back the losses and get a $90 profit I do not understand why more people are not doing this.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 01, 01:37 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 01, 11:24 AM 2016
It's all thx to you and Celticknits.
These results are going for repeaters.
But my other ktf comes out winning too.

So big  :thumbsup: to you guys

Thank you for the compliment.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 01, 01:38 PM 2016
You start on spin 15. Then you get 3 losses. So you don't count those 3 nrs to your bets?
Spin 16 : bet 15nrs
Spin 17 : bet 16nrs
Spin 18 : bet 17nrs

:o
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 01, 02:11 PM 2016
@ Denzie

Are you also taking off hit numbers as Celtic do?
And you are not betting on newcomers as candidates for repeat?

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 01, 02:24 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 01, 01:38 PM 2016
You start on spin 15. Then you get 3 losses. So you don't count those 3 nrs to your bets?
Spin 16 : bet 15nrs
Spin 17 : bet 16nrs
Spin 18 : bet 17nrs

:o

I start betting on spin #16 not 15 and just play.
Yes the first 3 spins are losses but look at the recovery.
Those three numbers ARE NOT added to the mix the way I play it.
I'll do another chart for you and show you why shortly.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 01, 02:28 PM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Mar 01, 02:11 PM 2016
@ Denzie

Are you also taking off hit numbers as Celtic do?
Yes, this I do also. In the beginning when I start playing it I've got little scared as the ones I toke off start to show. But till today it wasn't a problem.


And you are not betting on newcomers as candidates for repeat? This I did different. Celtic does not do that. If I understand him correctly. So I will not do that anymore and see how it goes. But all my sessions was played with adding newcomers.



What I also do...same as Celticknits. ...if we in a new high or we almost recovered then I reset the progression to 1 unit. This is a very important move. That keeps a possible bust far away.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 01, 02:32 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 01, 02:24 PM 2016
I start betting on spin #16 not 15 and just play.
Yes the first 3 spins are losses but look at the recovery.
Those three numbers ARE NOT added to the mix the way I play it.
I'll do another chart for you and show you why shortly.

-Celtic

Ooo I mean on spin 16. But I'm very curious why you not add those...this I did "wrong".

Thanks for the help. This forum could use more guys like you. Respect!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 01, 02:47 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 01, 01:38 PM 2016
You start on spin 15. Then you get 3 losses. So you don't count those 3 nrs to your bets?
Spin 16 : bet 15nrs
Spin 17 : bet 16nrs
Spin 18 : bet 17nrs

:o

-Denzie

Look what happens if I add the three losses as they happen.
You still win but their additional  betting costs has taken it's toll and if you had decided to go for 4 wins you would have made less that  the 3 wins. Look at the numbers  and you will see that one of the ones you added in would not have not paid off until spin #40 and hopefully you would have finished way before that.


S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
16 6 15 1 15 -15 -15
17 5 16 2 32 -32 -47
18 2 17 3 51 -51 -98
19 26 R 18 4 72 144 72 -26
20 21 R 17 3 51 108 57 31
21 30 16 1 16 -16 15
22 20 16 2 32 -32 -17
23 28 R 16 3 48 108 60 43
24 7 15 1 15 -15 28
25 17 15 2 30 -30 -2
26 10 15 3 45 -45 -47
27 3 R 15 4 60 144 84 37



I hope this helps illustrate why I did not add the losses on.

-celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 01, 02:52 PM 2016
Thanks C&D, nice info!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 01, 02:54 PM 2016
Alright,  got it. That's why some of my sessions are more grinders then yours.
Tomorrow I will redo my old sessions and see how that goes .

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 01, 03:04 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 01, 02:54 PM 2016
Alright,  got it. That's why some of my sessions are more grinders then yours.
Tomorrow I will redo my old sessions and see how that goes .

:thumbsup:

Always glad to help you.

I think a lot of the time we get ourselves into trouble by overthinking things and start to think things like...."What would happen if I just tried this one small little change".

Usually SH...T happens right.

We are all human and I have caught myself thinking this way when playing but fortunately I have always realized that there was not reason to make any changes.
Next time you think of changing something what you do is make a note of what you wanted to change and then finish the session normally.
After work out on paper what would have happened if you had made that change.

By the way those numbers were crazy and I now appreciate more than ever play on a live wheel.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 01, 03:08 PM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Mar 01, 02:52 PM 2016
Thanks C&D, nice info!

You are welcome.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 01, 03:59 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 01, 03:04 PM 2016
Always glad to help you.

I think a lot of the time we get ourselves into trouble by overthinking things and start to think things like...."What would happen if I just tried this one small little change".

Usually SH...T happens right.correct

We are all human and I have caught myself thinking this way when playing but fortunately I have always realized that there was not reason to make any changes.
Next time you think of changing something what you do is make a note of what you wanted to change and then finish the session normally.
After work out on paper what would have happened if you had made that change.Good advice, try the idea at home on paper with old data

By the way those numbers were crazy and I now appreciate more than ever play on a live wheel.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 01, 04:00 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 01, 02:54 PM 2016
Alright,  got it. That's why some of my sessions are more grinders then yours.
Tomorrow I will redo my old sessions and see how that goes .yes ,keep old games for testing

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 01, 04:06 PM 2016
Back from the town  under an hour
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 01, 04:09 PM 2016
Oh yeah .25p units in Lads and .20p units in coral
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Wally Gator on Mar 01, 05:51 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 01, 04:06 PM 2016
Back from the town  under an hour

On spin 39, is that a 10 unit bet, then a 5 unit and then another 10 unit?  Different progression?

Great work on this Notto.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 02, 04:47 AM 2016
As i'm still recording jackpot.247 for the numbers to build the avg doc, as i was marking the numbers on the sheet, i could see in spins 11-20, it was going to be a good example of KEEP THE FAITH.
There was just short of 3 hours game play, so enough to see if the second game could get the win.
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 15 36
2 33 35
3 29 34
4 19 33
5 34 32
6 23 31
7 8 30
8 36 29
9 28 28 stake
10 24 27 non-hit return
11 17 26 1 27 36 9
12 30 25 1 26 36 19
13 36 r 1 25 0 -6
14 19 r 2 50 0 -56
15 30 r 3 75 0 -131
16 31 24 4 100 144 -87
17 15 r 3 72 0 -159
18 34 r 4 96 0 -255
19 6 23 5 120 180 -195
20 15 r 4 92 0 -287
21 17 r 5 115 0 -402
22 21 22 6 138 216 -324
23 17 r 5 110 0 -434
24 1 21 6 132 216 -350
25 24 r 5 105 0 -455
26 20 20 6 126 216 -365
27 14 19 5 100 180 -285
28 26 18 4 76 144 -217
29 4 17 3 54 108 -163
30 14 r 2 34 0 -197
31 35 16 3 51 108 -140
32 34 r 2 32 0 -172
33 18 15 3 48 108 -112
34 9 14 2 30 72 -70
35 23 r 1 14 0 -84
36 10 13 2 28 72 -40
37 7 12 1 13 36 -17
38 18 r 1 12 0 -29
39 11 11 2 24 72 19 stop
40 21 r 1 11 0 8
41 10 r 2 22 0 -14
42 30 r 3 33 0 -47
43 25 10 4 44 144 53 definetly stop
44 10 r 3 30 0 23
45 26 r 4 40 0 -17
46 5 9 5 50 180 113
47 14 r 4 36 0 77
48 30 r 5 45 0 32
49 6 r 6 54 0 -22
50 17 r 7 63 0 -85
51 30 r 8 72 0 -157
52 27 8 9 81 324 86
53 11 r 86
54 14 r 86
55 19 r 86
56 17 r 86
57 9 r 86
58 31 r 86
59 10 r 86
60 6 r

61 0 7


Game 1 +£53

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 0 36
2 19 35
3 28 34
4 14 33
5 12 32
6 33 31
7 31 30
8 30 29
9 20 28 stake
10 29 27 non-hit return
11 7 26 1 27 36 9
12 13 25 1 26 36 19
13 33 r 1 25 0 -6
14 3 24 2 50 72 16
15 28 r 1 24 0 -8
16 15 23 2 48 72 16
17 27 22 1 23 36 29
18 1 21 1 22 36 43
19 34 20 1 21 36 58
20 29 r 1
21 30 r 2
22 6 19 3
23 7 r 2
24 26 18 3
25 15 r 2
26 24 17 3
27 15 r

Game 2 +£58
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 02, 07:36 AM 2016
I played a live session at the B&M yesterday on a 0/00 American wheel, for repeats, but thought you may be interested what would happen if it had been played with KTF.

I am posting this because I just realized that most of the posted samples, if not all, are for Euro wheels.

Anyways, hopefully this will be of use to someone.


S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
1 8
2 0
3 10
4 15
5 2
6 14
7 34
8 15 R
9 33
10 12             Count is 9/10
11 13 29 1 29 36 7 7
12 23 28 1 28 36 8 15
13 13 R 27 1 27 -27 -12
14 0 27 2 54 72 18 6
15 3 26 1 26 36 10 16
16 10 R 25 1 25 -25 -9
17 23 R 25 2 50 -50 -59
18 5 25 3 75 108 33 -26
19 24 24 2 48 72 24 -2
20 24 R 23 1 23 -23 -25    Count is 6+1
21 20 23 2 46 72 26 1
22     17 22 1 22 36 14 15
23 27 21 1 21 36 15 30     On American wheel I stop at $30-$40 Profit
24 21 20 1 20 36 16 46
25 13 R 19 1 19 -19 27
26 27 R 19 2 38 -38 -11
27 25 19 3 57 108 51 40
28 0 R 18 2 36 -36 4
29 29 18 3 54 108 54 58
30 0 R 17 2 34 -34 24      Count is 12+2
31 2 R 17 3 51 -51 -27
32 16 17 4 68 144 76 49
33 26 16 3 48 108 60 109
34 16 R 15 2 30 -30 79
35 7 15 3 45 108 63 142
36 20 R 14 2 28 -28 114
37 12 R 14 3 42 -42 72
38 00 14 4 56 144 88 160
39 28 13 3 39 108 69 229
40 10 R 12 2 24 -24 205    Count is 17+2


Note: I always bet 0 and 00 individually, even if they are in the original sequence, and I take them down if hit.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 02, 09:34 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 02, 04:47 AM 2016

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 15 36
2 33 35
3 29 34
4 19 33
5 34 32
6 23 31
7 8 30
8 36 29
9 28 28 stake
10 24 27 non-hit return
11 17 26 1 27 36 9
12 30 25 1 26 36 19
13 36 r 1 25 0 -6
14 19 r 2 50 0 -56
15 30 r 3 75 0 -131
16 31 24 4 100 144 -87
17 15 r 3 72 0 -159
18 34 r 4 96 0 -255
19 6 23 5 120 180 -195
20 15 r 4 92 0 -287
21 17 r 5 115 0 -402
22 21 22 6 138 216 -324
23 17 r 5 110 0 -434
24 1 21 6 132 216 -350
25 24 r 5 105 0 -455
26 20 20 6 126 216 -365
27 14 19 5 100 180 -285
28 26 18 4 76 144 -217
29 4 17 3 54 108 -163
30 14 r 2 34 0 -197
31 35 16 3 51 108 -140
32 34 r 2 32 0 -172
33 18 15 3 48 108 -112
34 9 14 2 30 72 -70
35 23 r 1 14 0 -84
36 10 13 2 28 72 -40
37 7 12 1 13 36 -17
38 18 r 1 12 0 -29
39 11 11 2 24 72 19 stop
40 21 r 1 11 0 8
41 10 r 2 22 0 -14
42 30 r 3 33 0 -47
43 25 10 4 44 144 53 definetly stop
44 10 r 3 30 0 23
45 26 r 4 40 0 -17
46 5 9 5 50 180 113
47 14 r 4 36 0 77
48 30 r 5 45 0 32
49 6 r 6 54 0 -22
50 17 r 7 63 0 -85
51 30 r 8 72 0 -157
52 27 8 9 81 324 86
53 11 r 86
54 14 r 86
55 19 r 86
56 17 r 86
57 9 r 86
58 31 r 86
59 10 r 86
60 6 r

61 0 7




-Notto-

The game starting with 15 33 29 would have taken one helluva BR.
But it does win  in the end.

OOOH look at the nice repeats.
Sorry...I couldn't help myself

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 02, 09:37 AM 2016
Ktf does well unless its repeat city. Tough game
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 03, 05:19 AM 2016
Jackpot 247  3.3.16
jackpotjoy 3.3.16
1 28
2 20
3 6
4 18
5 11
6 27
7 13
8 10
9 35
10 20
11 0
12 0
13 20
14 12
15 9
16 29
17 12
18 3
19 18
20 16
21 32
22 21
23 7
24 21
25 35
26 19
27 15
28 25
29 6
30 17
31 23
32 8
33 7
34 14
35 8
36 25
37 29
38 27
39 13
40 13
41 34
42 27
43 0
44 34
45 2
46 3
47 9
48 4
49 27
50 11
51 0
52 29
53 35
54 0
55 24
56 12
57 6
58 31
59 28
60 8

61 19
62 11
63 12
64 10
65 1
66 31
67 5
68 7
69 1
70 29
71 6
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 03, 11:54 AM 2016
Thanks for todays JJ numbers.
They would have won playing KTF or for the repeats although it was a good excercise in the count to find the betting entry point.

I wonder if you and I are the only ones left here now.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 03, 12:22 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 03, 11:54 AM 2016
I wonder if you and I are the only ones left here now.

-Celtic
No I'm reading everything with great interest!    I have not tested the repeaters idea, but I will. I still play KTF every day and works really great! So keep on with the great job!

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 03, 12:35 PM 2016
Celtic. I need a break for awhile so i wont be playing

But on airball when you go from say 3 units down to 2 units how do u do it?

Press repeat bet then swipe the chips off?

How do u do it so fast
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 03, 12:43 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 03, 11:54 AM 2016

I wonder if you and I are the only ones left here now.

-Celtic

Nope  :)
Today's results

+50
+63
+71
+60
+52
+66
+63
+83
+61
+63
+55
+63
+55
+53
Had one bust (-400) If kept going it did got to +42 but I didn't.
And one session was a real grinder and ended -1 . I stopped there.
This was all played with the original KTF.

So far , so very good.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 03, 02:20 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 03, 12:35 PM 2016
Celtic. I need a break for awhile so i wont be playing

But on airball when you go from say 3 units down to 2 units how do u do it?

Press repeat bet then swipe the chips off?

How do u do it so fast

My airball allows 50 seconds to bet regardless of the number of players.
Going down in units is the pain I know.

What I do is just reset the chip amount to the new value and rebet all the numbers less the last one hit.
It takes about the same length of time as pressing rebet and then reducing each bet by one unit but too many times I forgot to take down the last hit number.

Going up one unit is a breeze.
Press rebet and then just add 1 unit to each bet.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Genghis on Mar 03, 10:43 PM 2016
Hi Notto,

Thanks for revealing KTF.
It works great in my testing so far.
One question, must we wait for a complete 82 spins (all 37 numbers hit) before starting a new game.
Will there be any impact? Can we consider any cut-off point as the starting point of a new 82 spins cycle.
Thanks.

G
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 04, 04:15 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 4.3.16 
jackpotjoy 3.3.16
1 9
2 27
3 3
4 14
5 28
6 24
7 16
8 33
9 27
10 17
11 15
12 1
13 9
14 17
15 23
16 19
17 29
18 35
19 20
20 34
21 9
22 31
23 1
24 34
25 34
26 36
27 18
28 30
29 0
30 30
31 24
32 1
33 0
34 16
35 26
36 14
37 24
38 9
39 1
40 23
41 2
42 36
43 16
44 6
45 30
46 32
47 17
48 2
49 6
50 32
51 20
52 0
53 14
54 24
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 04, 04:31 AM 2016
Quote from: Genghis on Mar 03, 10:43 PM 2016
Hi Notto,

Thanks for revealing KTF.
It works great in my testing so far.
One question, must we wait for a complete 82 spins (all 37 numbers hit) before starting a new game.
Will there be any impact? Can we consider any cut-off point as the starting point of a new 82 spins cycle.
Thanks.

G
Hello Genghis
The start of a new game will depend on where you are playing, for me on FOBT's, as soon as i get to the win point of as near to 50/+50 i move to a new shop. If I was using a live wheel, i would move to another table. If you stay at the same table i would restart after 60 spins as usually 30.5 Non-hit would have made an appearence.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteMaster on Mar 04, 08:44 AM 2016
very interesting. do youstart only when there are 10 numbers come in 10 spins or do you start after 10 spins irrespective of how many numbers came. played 1 session and it did go a little bit scary playing with £5 coins. can some one confirm is this how youplay.

17   36         
8   35         
14   34         
4   33         
19   32         
22   31         
3   30         
36   29         
36   29         
7   28         
30   27         
8   27   1   -27   -27
17   27   2   -54   -81
20   26   3   27   -54
27   25   2   20   -34
22   25   1   -25   -59
22   25   2   -50   -109
5   24   3   33   -76
25   23   2   24   -52
36   23   1   -23   -75
20   23   2   -46   -121
33   22   3   39   -82
27   22   2   -44   -126
10   21   3   42   -84
30   21   2   -42   -126
19   21   3   -63   -189
24   20   4   60   -129
20   20   3   -60   -189
19   20   4   -80   -269
32   19   5   80   -189
9   18   4   68   -121
25   18   3   -54   -175
2   17   4   72   -103
13   16   3   57   -46
24   15   2   40   -6
7   15   1   -15   -21
36   15   2   -30   -51
14   15   3   -45   -96
22   15   4   -60   -156
15   14   5   105   -51
12   13   4   88   37


thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 04, 11:04 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 03, 12:43 PM 2016
Nope  :)
Today's results

+50
+63
+71
+60
+52
+66
+63
+83
+61
+63
+55
+63
+55
+53
Had one bust (-400) If kept going it did got to +42 but I didn't.
And one session was a real grinder and ended -1 . I stopped there.
This was all played with the original KTF.

So far , so very good.

That's what the man said when he fell off a 20 story building, as he was passing the 12th floor. :wink:

-Denzie

What happened to the approx. $50 max and then quit. :question:
It's gonna bite you!!!

Remember greed kills.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 04, 11:07 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 04, 04:15 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 4.3.16 
jackpotjoy 3.3.16
1 9
2 27
3 3
4 14
5 28
6 24
7 16
8 33
9 27
10 17
11 15
12 1
13 9
14 17
15 23
16 19
17 29
18 35
19 20
20 34
21 9
22 31
23 1
24 34
25 34
26 36
27 18
28 30
29 0
30 30
31 24
32 1
33 0
34 16
35 26
36 14
37 24
38 9
39 1
40 23
41 2
42 36
43 16
44 6
45 30
46 32
47 17
48 2
49 6
50 32
51 20
52 0
53 14
54 24


-Notto

The date in the code area says these numbers are from 3/3/16.
Which date do they belong to.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 04, 12:03 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteMaster on Mar 04, 08:44 AM 2016
very interesting. do youstart only when there are 10 numbers come in 10 spins or do you start after 10 spins irrespective of how many numbers came. played 1 session and it did go a little bit scary playing with £5 coins. can some one confirm is this how youplay.

17   36         
8   35         
14   34         
4   33         
19   32         
22   31         
3   30         
36   29         
36   29         
7   28         
30   27         
8   27   1   -27   -27
17   27   2   -54   -81
20   26   3   27   -54
27   25   2   20   -34
22   25   1   -25   -59
22   25   2   -50   -109
5   24   3   33   -76
25   23   2   24   -52
36   23   1   -23   -75
20   23   2   -46   -121
33   22   3   39   -82
27   22   2   -44   -126
10   21   3   42   -84
30   21   2   -42   -126
19   21   3   -63   -189
24   20   4   60   -129
20   20   3   -60   -189
19   20   4   -80   -269
32   19   5   80   -189
9   18   4   68   -121
25   18   3   -54   -175
2   17   4   72   -103
13   16   3   57   -46
24   15   2   40   -6
7   15   1   -15   -21
36   15   2   -30   -51
14   15   3   -45   -96
22   15   4   -60   -156
15   14   5   105   -51
12   13   4   88   37


thanks

You're numbers should produce this outcome.
You start betting on the 11th spin.


S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
17 0 0 0 0 0
2 8 0 0 0 0 0
14 0 0 0 0 0
4   4 0 0 0 0 0
19 0 0 0 0 0
22 0 0 0 0 0
7   3 0 0 0 0 0
8   36 0 0 0 0 0
9   36 0 0 0 0 0
10   7 0 0 0 0 0
11  30 28 1 28 36 8 8
12   8 R 27 1 27 -27 -19
13 17 R 27 2 54 -54 -73
14   20 27 3 81 108 27 -46
15   27 26 2 52 72 20 -26
16 22 R 25 1 25 -25 -51
17 22 R 25 2 50 -50 -101
18  5 25 3 75 108 33 -68
19   25 24 2 48 72 24 -44
20  36 R 23 1 23 -23 -67
21  20 R 23 2 46 -46 -113
22  33 23 3 69 108 39 -74
23 27 R 22 2 44 -44 -118
24  10 22 3 66 108 42 -76
25   30 R 21 2 42 -42 -118
26 19 R 21 3 63 -63 -181
27   24 21 4 84 144 60 -121
28 20 R 20 3 60 -60 -181
29  19 R 20 4 80 -80 -261
30 32 20 5 100 180 80 -181
31 9 19 4 76 144 68 -113
32 25 R 18 3 54 -54 -167
33 2 18 4 72 144 72 -95
34 13 17 3 51 108 57 -38
35 24 R 16 2 32 -32 -70
36  7 R 16 3 48 -48 -118
37 36 R 16 4 64 -64 -182
38 14 R 16 5 80 -80 -262
39 22 R 16 6 96 -96 -358
40 15 16 7 112 252 140 -218
41 12 15 6 90 216 126 -92


Please read the entire thread to understand what is going on here

-Celtic


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 04, 12:20 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 04, 11:04 AM 2016
-Denzie

What happened to the approx. $50 max and then quit. :question:
It's gonna bite you!!!

Remember greed kills.

-Celtic

I said to myself : I'm going for +50 sessions.
If I didn't. ..I wouldn't busted . The best is probably around 30-45....

Just thought on a bust I need only 8 games instead of 10 or more. After all I came out in profit. Today same problem.  Another bust. But ended the day with +208 . Only this time nothing would worked. Unless we would betting the repeaters.

Denzie
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 04, 12:38 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 04, 11:07 AM 2016
-Notto

The date in the code area says these numbers are from 3/3/16.
Which date do they belong to.

-Celtic

sorry forgot to change the 3 to 4, so todays
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 04, 07:03 PM 2016
Well had a rare visit to the B+M, Aspers MK.
The first game i kept KTF won 33.50 with .25p units.
Reset used the other table on the touch screen. I used the last 7 numbers on marquee,decided to use the 8,11, needing only 1 more number,the 14 came,so 9/10.
Won the 1st 2 spins,as 11th is just early so i watched,got 14 th in and thought what would Celtic do, so i waited 15th came, so i went for the repeat,win. Thought i'll just rebet the 15,lose, so doubled, win.
Now this is where two blokes ask is it winning,so,yeah its winning,Meter now reads 49.75, so i was going to rebet the 15 and lay the other 2 non-hit, so push rebet lay the extra 2 numbers but realised they were'nt chipped up to the same amounts, so scrubbed the bet, yeah it won.
Now more ?'s, so tell them to look up on  the forum, now missed some spins so just thought i'd see if it gets the 24, it does, the last 2 spins were repeats,but you know when distracted things dont get marked properly.
Game 1 got 14 non-hit in 30 spins
Game 2 got the 15, so the avg 15 in 30 is pretty good.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JimmieB on Mar 04, 07:56 PM 2016
Oh it can be tense at the B&M... :) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 05, 04:43 AM 2016
Even thou i made a mistake at spin 17, like Winkel says i made a mistake, but i decided to play to KTF, still made £33.50 for .25p units.
Now as it should have been,a definite KEEP THE FAITH,
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 6 36
2 31 35
3 20 34
4 1 33
5 31 r
6 18 32
7 7 31
8 16 30
9 6 r stake
10 0 29 non-hit return
11 8 28 1 29 36 7
12 32 27 1 28 36 15
13 12 26 1 27 36 24
14 0 r 1 26 0 -2
15 22 25 2 52 72 18
16 8 r 1 25 0 -7
17 32 r 2 50 0 -57
18 26 24 3 75 108 -24
19 31 r 2 48 0 -72
20 31 r 3 72 0 -144
21 27 23 4 96 144 -96
22 8 r 3 69 0 -165
23 12 r 4 92 0 -257
24 13 22 5 115 180 -192
25 33 21 4 88 144 -136
26 10 20 3 63 108 -91
27 31 r 2 40 0 -131
28 24 19 3 60 108 -83
29 12 r 4 76 0 -159
30 33 r 5 95 0 -254
31 1 r 6 114 0 -368
32 32 r 7 133 0 -501
33 10 r 8 152 0 -653
34 23 18 9 171 324 -500
35 20 r 8 144 0 -644
36 8 r 9 162 0 -806
37 19 17 10 180 360 -626
38 27 r 9 153 0 -779
39 35 16 10 170 360 -589
40 3 15 9 144 324 -409
41 9 14 8 120 288 -241
42 24 r 7 98 0 -339
43 35 r 8 112 0 -451
44 27 r 9 126 0 -577
45 29 13 10 140 360 -357
46 31 r 9 117 0 -474
47 7 r 10 130 0 -604
48 17 12 11 143 396 -351
49 5 11 10 120 360 -111
50 11 10 9 99 324 114
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 05, 04:59 AM 2016
So 2nd game
This is why go to another wheel/table, different 37#'s due, 5 spins thank you
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 8 36
2 11 35
3 20 34
4 24 33
5 20 r
6 15 32
7 1 31
8 0 30
9 35 29 stake
10 14 28 non-hit return
11 16 27 1 28 36 8
12 34 26 1 27 36 17
13 26 25 1 26 36 27
14 28 24 1 25 36 38
15 17 23 1 24 36 50 stop
16 33 22 1 23 36 63
17 14 r 1 22 0 41
18 22 21 2 44 72 69
19 1 r 1 21 0 48
20 9 20 2 42 72 78
21 15 r 1 20 0 58
22 20 r 2 40 0 18
23 20 r 3 60 0 -42
24 33 r 4 80 0 -122
25 31 19 5 100 180 -42
26 1 r 4 76 0 -118
27 27 18 5 95 180 -33
28 7 17 4 72 144 39
29 1 r 3 51 0 -12
30 22 r 4 68 0 -80
31 18 16 5 85 180 15
32 22 r 4 56 0 -41
33 26 r 5 80 0 -121
34 12 15 6 96 216 -1
35 1 r 5 75 0 -76
36 33 r 6 90 0 -166
37 32 14 7 105 252 -19
38 29 13 6 84 216 113
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 05, 05:35 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 5/3/16 only 49 spins but an easy win
jackpotjoy 5.3.16
21
21
19
8
16
36
10
11
7
26
1
35
23
17
28
4
24
12
16
33
20
4
20
35
16
28
33
13
28
6
12
32
32
26
9
24
14
27
34
18
25
32
23
24
11
29
15
7
25
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 05, 05:40 AM 2016
Always looking for the easy bet. Theres something on the sheets, have a look, this should be right up RG's alley.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 05, 05:56 AM 2016
Thank you Notto for keeping us updated, like it!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 05, 12:58 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 05, 04:43 AM 2016
Even thou i made a mistake at spin 17, like Winkel says i made a mistake, but i decided to play to KTF, still made £33.50 for .25p units.
Now as it should have been,a definite KEEP THE FAITH,
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 6 36
2 31 35
3 20 34
4 1 33
5 31 r
6 18 32
7 7 31
8 16 30
9 6 r stake
10 0 29 non-hit return
11 8 28 1 29 36 7
12 32 27 1 28 36 15
13 12 26 1 27 36 24
14 0 r 1 26 0 -2
15 22 25 2 52 72 18
16 8 r 1 25 0 -7
17 32 r 2 50 0 -57
18 26 24 3 75 108 -24
19 31 r 2 48 0 -72
20 31 r 3 72 0 -144
21 27 23 4 96 144 -96
22 8 r 3 69 0 -165
23 12 r 4 92 0 -257
24 13 22 5 115 180 -192
25 33 21 4 88 144 -136
26 10 20 3 63 108 -91
27 31 r 2 40 0 -131
28 24 19 3 60 108 -83
29 12 r 4 76 0 -159
30 33 r 5 95 0 -254
31 1 r 6 114 0 -368
32 32 r 7 133 0 -501
33 10 r 8 152 0 -653
34 23 18 9 171 324 -500
35 20 r 8 144 0 -644
36 8 r 9 162 0 -806
37 19 17 10 180 360 -626
38 27 r 9 153 0 -779
39 35 16 10 170 360 -589
40 3 15 9 144 324 -409
41 9 14 8 120 288 -241
42 24 r 7 98 0 -339
43 35 r 8 112 0 -451
44 27 r 9 126 0 -577
45 29 13 10 140 360 -357
46 31 r 9 117 0 -474
47 7 r 10 130 0 -604
48 17 12 11 143 396 -351
49 5 11 10 120 360 -111
50 11 10 9 99 324 114

Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 04, 12:03 PM 2016
You're numbers should produce this outcome.
You start betting on the 11th spin.


S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
17 0 0 0 0 0
2 8 0 0 0 0 0
14 0 0 0 0 0
4   4 0 0 0 0 0
19 0 0 0 0 0
22 0 0 0 0 0
7   3 0 0 0 0 0
8   36 0 0 0 0 0
9   36 0 0 0 0 0
10   7 0 0 0 0 0
11  30 28 1 28 36 8 8
12   8 R 27 1 27 -27 -19
13 17 R 27 2 54 -54 -73
14   20 27 3 81 108 27 -46
15   27 26 2 52 72 20 -26
16 22 R 25 1 25 -25 -51
17 22 R 25 2 50 -50 -101
18  5 25 3 75 108 33 -68
19   25 24 2 48 72 24 -44
20  36 R 23 1 23 -23 -67
21  20 R 23 2 46 -46 -113
22  33 23 3 69 108 39 -74
23 27 R 22 2 44 -44 -118
24  10 22 3 66 108 42 -76
25   30 R 21 2 42 -42 -118
26 19 R 21 3 63 -63 -181
27   24 21 4 84 144 60 -121
28 20 R 20 3 60 -60 -181
29  19 R 20 4 80 -80 -261
30 32 20 5 100 180 80 -181
31 9 19 4 76 144 68 -113
32 25 R 18 3 54 -54 -167
33 2 18 4 72 144 72 -95
34 13 17 3 51 108 57 -38
35 24 R 16 2 32 -32 -70
36  7 R 16 3 48 -48 -118
37 36 R 16 4 64 -64 -182
38 14 R 16 5 80 -80 -262
39 22 R 16 6 96 -96 -358
40 15 16 7 112 252 140 -218
41 12 15 6 90 216 126 -92


Please read the entire thread to understand what is going on here

-Celtic
Aspers kept the faith as you would have to here, if wins the next spin would be back infront
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 05, 03:37 PM 2016
Notto, are you West Ham's "hammer"?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 05, 04:19 PM 2016
My first play was a bumpy road that resulted in positive result.

The next one was really fast I got 3 fast wins and after that the count of the no-hit came in in favour, so my plan was to start bet the repeaters for the first time!! What happened my child woke up so I had to stop  >:D Next time...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 06, 12:14 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 05, 04:43 AM 2016
Even thou i made a mistake at spin 17, like Winkel says i made a mistake, but i decided to play to KTF, still made £33.50 for .25p units.
Now as it should have been,a definite KEEP THE FAITH,
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 6 36
2 31 35
3 20 34
4 1 33
5 31 r
6 18 32
7 7 31
8 16 30
9 6 r stake
10 0 29 non-hit return
11 8 28 1 29 36 7
12 32 27 1 28 36 15
13 12 26 1 27 36 24
14 0 r 1 26 0 -2
15 22 25 2 52 72 18
16 8 r 1 25 0 -7
17 32 r 2 50 0 -57
18 26 24 3 75 108 -24
19 31 r 2 48 0 -72
20 31 r 3 72 0 -144
21 27 23 4 96 144 -96
22 8 r 3 69 0 -165
23 12 r 4 92 0 -257
24 13 22 5 115 180 -192
25 33 21 4 88 144 -136
26 10 20 3 63 108 -91
27 31 r 2 40 0 -131
28 24 19 3 60 108 -83
29 12 r 4 76 0 -159
30 33 r 5 95 0 -254
31 1 r 6 114 0 -368
32 32 r 7 133 0 -501
33 10 r 8 152 0 -653
34 23 18 9 171 324 -500
35 20 r 8 144 0 -644
36 8 r 9 162 0 -806
37 19 17 10 180 360 -626
38 27 r 9 153 0 -779
39 35 16 10 170 360 -589
40 3 15 9 144 324 -409
41 9 14 8 120 288 -241
42 24 r 7 98 0 -339
43 35 r 8 112 0 -451
44 27 r 9 126 0 -577
45 29 13 10 140 360 -357
46 31 r 9 117 0 -474
47 7 r 10 130 0 -604
48 17 12 11 143 396 -351
49 5 11 10 120 360 -111
50 11 10 9 99 324 114


-Notto

Talk about Keeping The Faith.

I think I would have switched religions or become an atheist by spin #28 or #29 which would have been approx. an hour at the table for me :xd:

I wonder how many people would have risked $986 on spin #37 :question:

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 06, 01:42 AM 2016
jackpot247.com 6.3.16 KTF  +51
The wheels on the rollercoaster went pretty quick, the white knuckle ride began at spin 13, she climbed, up she went, but she soon dropped, she was slowing down, we got off at spin 29.
Why do we get off, because a repeat performance is a waiting, so go to another ride.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 07, 01:55 AM 2016
I busted one bankroll yesterday and I wonder how you should play this one?
It was with the casinos money so no big thing. But I'm curious how you think about this one:

29
26
11
19
29 R
32
8
0
3
20
------------
26 R
7
32 R
7  R
4
7  R
3  R
26 R
17
7  R
3  R

I did not get more numbers because I didn't got more money in time. When I was back the sequence was gone...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Mar 07, 02:29 AM 2016
 tuddilue,

Did you play this online? If yes, which site was it at?

Where is your tracking sheet?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 07, 02:36 AM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Mar 07, 02:29 AM 2016
tuddilue,

Did you play this online? If yes, which site was it at?

Where is your tracking sheet?
Hi, I played on Bwin online.

Yes I can add the tracking sheet if you want later. (I have just the numbers here now).

The interesting thing is how to think? Do you see something with help of the trot? Maybe switch to bet repeaters or just take the loss..

This kind of sequence is really rare. I think I'm up 5 bankrolls before this happened..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Mar 07, 02:48 AM 2016
It's hard to say now that we know the number's. Best advice for everyone if this or anything else happens is to post the first 10 number's and have others explain how they would play it.

Whats the minimum bet there?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 07, 02:59 AM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Mar 07, 02:48 AM 2016
It's hard to say now that we know the number's. Best advice for everyone if this or anything else happens is to post the first 10 number's and have others explain how they would play it.

Whats the minimum bet there?
I have played this so many times now so I think the random will do this. This is not a holy Grail so bust will happen.

I'm curious how Notto or Celtic or denzie would have done in this situation?  If you can be warned before with the trots help or betting on repeaters maybe..

For me I can bet 0.5 to 100 on single numbers. I did betting 2.5 this time as unit...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Mar 07, 03:10 AM 2016
oh wow..  I guess not enough bankroll and a bad sequence got you.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 07, 03:16 AM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Mar 07, 03:10 AM 2016
oh wow..  I guess not enough bankroll and a bad sequence got you.
He he yes that is the case. No big thing because I just lost one bankroll.

But you always want to learn and see if you can prevent it in the future. Maybe it is not possible if you play ktf I do not know..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 07, 03:46 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Mar 07, 02:59 AM 2016
I have played this so many times now so I think the random will do this. This is not a holy Grail so bust will happen.

I'm curious how Notto or Celtic or denzie would have done in this situation?  If you can be warned before with the trots help or betting on repeaters maybe..

For me I can bet 0.5 to 100 on single numbers. I did betting 2.5 this time as unit...

That's a RFH for sure. I probably stop at spin 17 (5units). Wait till spin 21-22 and go from there. If we play for repeaters I wouldn't play coz the count is in minus.

So bit sh*t we don't get more numbers. Anyway its a rfh.

Which table on Bwin you play?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 07, 04:02 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 07, 03:46 AM 2016
That's a RFH for sure. I probably stop at spin 17 (5units). Wait till spin 21-22 and go from there. If we play for repeaters I wouldn't play coz the count is in minus.

So bit sh*t we don't get more numbers. Anyway its a rfh.

Which table on Bwin you play?
Yes I agree with you. A bit more caution and wait for 21-22...

Yes I'm sorry for that it is not more numbers, my fault.

This was played on RNG. I usually play on the first table with a dealer. I can choose 2 different.  I also play auto play is it called..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 07, 04:09 AM 2016
Tuddilue, Azim, here are 2 spin registries where we get 2 & 3 non-hit in 10 spins (spins 11-20) out of 367 games where you have 9 non-hit in 1st 10 spins, 2 in 367 games,just 2 and both finish below 15 in 30 spins
LS-9 NL-9
1 9 9
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 1 7
12 5 1
13 2 4
14 4 1
15 3 1
16 4 1
17 1 4
18 2 2
19 1 2
20 1 3
21 4 3
22 5 1
23 1 0
24 4 0
25 1 0
26 1 0
27 1 0
28 3 0
29 0
30 0
31 0
32 0
33 0
34 0
35 0
36 0
37 0
38 0
39
40 11 12
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 07, 04:30 AM 2016
Notto, me no comprendo your numbers.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 07, 04:47 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Mar 07, 04:02 AM 2016. I usually play on the first table with a dealer. I can choose 2 different.  I also play auto play is it called..

How many seconds you get for placing the bets ?

Autoplay?  Is a bit simular with airball?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 07, 04:54 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 07, 04:09 AM 2016
Tuddilue, Azim, here are 2 spin registries where we get 2 & 3 non-hit in 10 spins (spins 11-20) out of 367 games where you have 9 non-hit in 1st 10 spins, 2 in 367 games,just 2 and both finish below 15 in 30 spins
LS-9 NL-9
1 9 9
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 1 7
11 5 1
12 2 4
13
14 4 1
15 3 1
16 4 1
17 1 4
18 2 2
19 1 2
20 1 3
21 4 3
22 5 1
23 1 0
24 4 0
25 1 0
26 1 0
27 1 0
28 3 0
29 0
30 0
31 0
32 0
33 0
34 0
35 0
36 0
37 0
38 0
39
40 11 12

Nextyear LS-9,NL-9  means we got 9 non-hit in 1st 10 spins.
So the 10th non-hit in game NL-9 took 7 spins to hit, the 11th non-hit took just 1 spin, so 8 spins of spins 11-20 have been spun, the 12th non-hit  takes 4 spins to hit, so making the 12th non-hit come in,in spins 21-30, i moved the 1st few to where they should have been,okay.
So you can see in Tuddilue's game she only got 3 non-hit in 10 spins, in 367 recorded games i have only had 2 non-hit once.
Hope that helps
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 07, 05:02 AM 2016
Partialy helps!

What is LS and what NL?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 07, 05:28 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 07, 04:47 AM 2016
How many seconds you get for placing the bets ?

Autoplay?  Is a bit simular with airball?
Around 30 seconds. But I only play KTF on RNG and then you have how much time you want.
This is because KTF works so well on RNG and that it is so many bets.

Yes auotplay = airball. They just call it that..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 07, 05:36 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 07, 04:09 AM 2016
Tuddilue, Azim, here are 2 spin registries where we get 2 & 3 non-hit in 10 spins (spins 11-20) out of 367 games where you have 9 non-hit in 1st 10 spins, 2 in 367 games,just 2 and both finish below 15 in 30 spins
Thanks that explains a lot!

I went through all play I have done and I have played 70 KTF on your sheets. So this has just happened to me one time in 70 games. I will recover this in 10-15 games so it will go fast  :smile:

The thing I have learned here is that I need to record the games better so I get better statistics. I will look through your AVG posts in this thread and see if I get all the information...

But back to this. How do you think when these happens? I mean when "2 & 3 non-hit in 10 spins (spins 11-20) " occur?
Do you play along with KEEP THE FAITH?
Or stop takes the loss and starts a new game?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 07, 11:43 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Mar 07, 05:36 AM 2016
Thanks that explains a lot!

I went through all play I have done and I have played 70 KTF on your sheets. So this has just happened to me one time in 70 games. I will recover this in 10-15 games so it will go fast  :smile:

The thing I have learned here is that I need to record the games better so I get better statistics. I will look through your AVG posts in this thread and see if I get all the information...

But back to this. How do you think when these happens? I mean when "2 & 3 non-hit in 10 spins (spins 11-20) " occur?
Do you play along with KEEP THE FAITH?

Or stop takes the loss and starts a new game?


S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
1 29
2 26
3 11
4 19
5 29 R
6 32
7 8
8 0
9 3
10 20
11 26 R 28 1 28 -28 -28
12 7 28 2 56 72 16 -12
13 32 R 27 1 27 -27 -39
14 7 R 27 2 54 -54 -93
15 4 27 3 81 108 27 -66
16 7 R 26 2 52 -52 -118
17 3 R 26 3 78 -78 -196
18 26 R 26 4 104 -104 -300
19 17 26 5 130 180 50 -250
20 7 R 25 4 100 -100 -350
21 3 R 25 5 125 -125 -475


Denzie is right if playing KTF it is the RFH and if playing repeats you never would have started betting because the count is 3-2 after spin 20.

All you can do is pick your time to quit.
Personally I would have quit after losing on spin #13.
Why--because we have had 3 repeats in 13 spins at that point . That is approx. 23%.

With KTF you have to either accept what is happening and try to ride it out or quit with as small a loss as possible.

I hope this helps.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 07, 12:16 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 07, 11:43 AM 2016
Denzie is right if playing KTF it is the RFH and if playing repeats you never would have started betting because the count is 3-2 after spin 20.

All you can do is pick your time to quit.
Personally I would have quit after losing on spin #13.
Why--because we have had 3 repeats in 13 spins at that point . That is approx. 23%.

With KTF you have to either accept what is happening and try to ride it out or quit with as small a loss as possible.

I hope this helps.

-Celtic
I think I need to work on the beginning of my game. I shouldn't quit before at spin #13, but I will now and I totally agree with you!

This describes KTF so good:
"With KTF you have to either accept what is happening and try to ride it out or quit with as small a loss as possible."

Yes it helps, thanks!!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 07, 01:35 PM 2016
Celtic well summed up. Been on the mother-in-law run, bank,doc's you name it she had to do it.
Jackpot247.com 7/3/16 long recording,collected 87 numbers/spins.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 07, 01:45 PM 2016
The 87 spins lets us see if it will win again as we are in the same stream of numbers, yes both win, +41 and +45.
Now i've tried loading the sheet and numbers but it just disappears.
I'll try sending  in a few minutes
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 07, 01:47 PM 2016
todays #'s
jackpotjoy 7.3.16
1 26
2 11
3 9
4 32
5 30
6 35
7 16
8 8
9 4
10 8
11 13
12 27
13 21
14 30
15 30
16 4
17 17
18 7
19 4
20 3
21 5
22 12
23 7
24 32
25 7
26 29
27 32
28 12
29 9
30 1
31 14
32 12
33 36
34 3
35 19
36 27
37 13
38 11
39 1
40 17
41 22
42 15
43 25
44 31
45 24
46 20
47 27
48 29
49 27
50 3
51 31
52 27
53 4
54 9
55 22
56 5
57 8
58 26
59 18
60 26

61 15
62 29
63 2
64 3
65 1
66 27
67 32
68 21
69 6
70 6
71 11
72 28
73 19
74 27
75 31
76 13
77 31
78 16
79 11
80 35
81 28
82 4
83 15
84 32
85 4
86 25
87 12
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 07, 01:49 PM 2016
And you are also ideal son in law?!
Hats off!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Big EZ on Mar 07, 01:59 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 05, 05:40 AM 2016
Always looking for the easy bet. Theres something on the sheets, have a look, this should be right up RG's alley.

I agree  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 07, 07:18 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 07, 01:35 PM 2016
Celtic well summed up. Been on the mother-in-law run, bank,doc's you name it she had to do it.
Jackpot247.com 7/3/16 long recording,collected 87 numbers/spins.

Been there done that.
I hope the mother-in law is OK.

I am still only betting repeats and not looking at other strategies.
Why bother.
I think Denzie has come to the same conclusion

I think we should give the repeat system a name.
How about the NottoCeltic Repeat Strategy shortened to NCRS? :wink:

By the way I noticed Winkel has been on the forum recently.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 08, 02:51 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 07, 07:18 PM 2016
I think we should give the repeat system a name.
How about the NottoCeltic Repeat Strategy shortened to NCRS? :wink:

By the way I noticed Winkel has been on the forum recently.

-Celtic
Good idea!
Do you think it is possible to make a new thread with the  repeaters system? So we can describe it and have the test result on one place.
What do you think?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 08, 05:45 AM 2016
Todays #'s  KTF +£49
jackpotjoy 8.3.16
1 10
2 24
3 32
4 34
5 35
6 17
7 13
8 5
9 32
10 8
11 14
12 29
13 21
14 13
15 4
16 36
17 36
18 14
19 22
20 11
21 25
22 5
23 35
24 24
25 19
26 4
27 4
28 32
29 3
30 35
31 27
32 15
33 2
34 33
35 9
36 6
37 22
38 17
39 17
40 20
41 20
42 4
43 21
44 12
45 25
46 3
47 17
48 17
49 20
50 6
51 35
52 33
53 26
54 32
55 19
56 34
57 20
58 28
59 28
60 34

61 2
62 33
63 14
64 15
65 2
66 2
67 0
68 1
69 27
70 18
71 7
72 21
73 13
74 21
75 26
76 14
77 17
78 36
79 6


If you want you could use the numbers after 60th spin for another game, but me i'd be on another table.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 08, 01:10 PM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Mar 08, 02:51 AM 2016
Good idea!
Do you think it is possible to make a new thread with the  repeaters system? So we can describe it and have the test result on one place.
What do you think?

-Tuddilue

There are already threads associated with betting repeats.
Read them and a lot of your questions should be answered.

I think that most people just want a cut and dried system to bet that makes money.
KTF is the system for them, and not betting repeats.
KTF wins more than it loses but you will run into the odd RFH every now and then and the trick is knowing when to quit with as small a loss as possible. This was discussed the other day re. your post with all those repeats.

When someone says that KTF does not work for them my first question would be what was your BR.
If it is less than $400 then they are not following the basic KTF guidelines which state:

1. To play KTF you should have a $400 BR
2. Quit after making $40-$50 profit on a Euro wheel and $30-$40 on and American wheel.
3. Progression is +1/-1

It doesn't get more simpler than that.

OR

You could start a new thread regarding betting repeats. :wink:

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 08, 02:59 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 08, 01:10 PM 2016

KTF wins more than it loses but you will run into the odd RFH every now and then and the trick is knowing when to quit with as small a loss as possible.

-Celtic

No doubt.  It's a winner  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 08, 03:55 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 08, 01:10 PM 2016
-Tuddilue

There are already threads associated with betting repeats.
Read them and a lot of your questions should be answered.

I think that most people just want a cut and dried system to bet that makes money.
KTF is the system for them, and not betting repeats.
KTF wins more than it loses but you will run into the odd RFH every now and then and the trick is knowing when to quit with as small a loss as possible. This was discussed the other day re. your post with all those repeats.

When someone says that KTF does not work for them my first question would be what was your BR.
If it is less than $400 then they are not following the basic KTF guidelines which state:

1. To play KTF you should have a $400 BR
2. Quit after making $40-$50 profit on a Euro wheel and $30-$40 on and American wheel.
3. Progression is +1/-1

It doesn't get more simpler than that.

OR

You could start a new thread regarding betting repeats. :wink:

-Celtic
- Celtic

Good written answer!

For myself I already study the repeat threads that I find. So I learn...

I was more thinking that we split up the information. Because in this thread we should mostly talk about KTF not the repeaters. But as said before it was just an idea..

Your description of KTF is briliant, yes it doesn't get simpler than that!

Hehe nope I do not have enough knowledge to start a new thread of the repeaters  ;)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 08, 04:52 PM 2016
Here is a group of numbers from my B&M live session yesterday.
I am posting them because there are very few examples of American wheel spins in this thread and I wanted to show that it also wins on KTF.

Decided to take it easy and just play KTF, while the wife played slots, but KTF ran right into a repeats betting opportunity so I continued playing.

Left with $145 total profit within 3/4 hour.


Georgian Downs 7Mar16
35
00
34
9
0
9
8
5
9
12
28
0
8
24
1
12
31
36
14
29
35
22
31
36
8
9
13
27
3
17
16
2
18
21
00
30
18
20
7
36
16
20
21
29
22
15
9
3
3
21
34
18
10
10
21
29
16
30
00
10


This is the payout sheet for KTF only.


S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
11 28 30 1 30 36 6 6
12 0 29 1 29 36 7 13
13 8 R 28 1 28 -28 -15
14 24 28 2 56 72 16 1
15 1 27 1 27 36 9 10
16 12 R 26 1 26 -26 -16
17 31 26 2 52 72 20 4
18 36 25 1 25 36 11 15
19 14 24 1 24 36 12 27
20 29 23 1 23 36 13 40


-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 09, 02:16 AM 2016
Thanks Celtic, nice!

Is wife having winning tactic on slots?
I never played slots...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 09, 05:47 AM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Mar 09, 02:16 AM 2016
Thanks Celtic, nice!

Is wife having winning tactic on slots?
I never played slots...

My wife's winnining tactic is to play ie. lose $20 of my winnings when she comes with me. :twisted:
I never play slots.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 09, 06:48 AM 2016
You lucky devil!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 09, 06:57 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 9.3.16  KTF  +45
jackpotjoy 9.3.16
1 4
2 24
3 24
4 17
5 14
6 8
7 23
8 32
9 23
10 13
11 2
12 20
13 15
14 25
15 1
16 15
17 1
18 9
19 13
20 4
21 10
22 23
23 36
24 33
25 33
26 7
27 22
28 24
29 11
30 25
31 1
32 17
33 18
34 6
35 15
36 30
37 7
38 1
39 26
40 11
41 26
42 4
43 24
44 33
45 18
46 32
47 17
48 19
49 17
50 10
51 14
52 8
53 0
54 8
55 25
56 36
57 14
58 23
59 15
60 14
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 09, 03:27 PM 2016
Just thought I'll throw it in here. Will it fail? Probably. No idea actually. I checked my last 56 rng sessions. ...here it goes  :P

Track 10 spins. Now bet those numbers they will repeat. We going for 1 hit. And refresh the session. It's a 10 step progression  :ooh:

Spin 11 ... 1unit on our given numbers
Spin 12 ....2
         13 ....3
         14 ....4
         15 ....5
         16 ....6
         17 ....8
         18 ....12
         19 ....16
         20 ....25
         21.... Die :P

Maybe you guys can check how often we get 10 non hits in spin 11-20.
Of course I didn't play it but I would made actually 1954 units.

That's it. Probably suicide. But it doesn't hurt to check your sheets.
Oh one more thing: if we get a hit straight away. And then go for one more....didn't busted yet. Just mention it. :o
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 09, 04:05 PM 2016
Just checked 43 more rng sessions.
Had 1 bust. But ended +480

So far 99 sessions gives a profit of +2434.
Maybe it's just luck. Anyway I'll keep looking at it.. who knows.  Lol
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tomla021 on Mar 09, 04:23 PM 2016
denzie-your just playing the 10 numbers for a repeat?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 09, 04:29 PM 2016
Quote from: Tomla021 on Mar 09, 04:23 PM 2016
denzie-your just playing the 10 numbers for a repeat?

Yes.
As I did close to 300 sessions on rng now..I've started to notice that .....well they repeat almost all the time. Tomorrow I gonna check wiesbaden. .... it's probably just luck. Never try , never know
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 09, 04:41 PM 2016
If you look in the doc: at
25.2.16
26.2.16
24.1.16  you can see how close it gets to 10 non-hit in spins 11-20
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 09, 05:30 PM 2016
Den of the 75 games theres only been games of 8,9,10 unique in first 10 spins, of those 75 games theres only 16 games where theres no repeat in 1st 10 spins, so about 80% of games give a repeat in first 10 spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 09, 08:58 PM 2016
80% win rate on 10 number seems good to me

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 09, 09:12 PM 2016
Another good day at the local B&M on the American Wheel.

Here are the spins and KTF payout sheet.
Note: I only played the repeats but ran the numbers for KTF all the way to the end for your reference.


S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
1 12 0 0 0 0
2 15 0 0 0 0
3 35 0 0 0 0
4 34 0 0 0 0
5 17 0 0 0 0
6 19 0 0 0 0
7 12 R 0 0 0 0
8 20 0 0 0 0
9 5 0 0 0 0
10 23 0 0 0 0
11 0 29 1 29 36 7 7
12 25 28 1 28 36 8 15
13 30 27 1 27 36 9 24
14 13 26 1 26 36 10 34 ----This is an American 00 wheel so quit here (Max $30-$40 Profit)
15 9 25 1 25 36 11 45
16 25 R 24 1 24 -24 21
17 12 R 24 2 48 -48 -27
18 9 R 24 3 72 -72 -99
19 1 24 4 96 144 48 -51
20 7 23 3 69 108 39 -12
21 20 R 22 2 44 -44 -56
22 28 R 22 3 66 -66 -122
23 19 R 22 4 88 -88 -210
24 11 22 5 110 180 70 -140
25 36 21 4 84 144 60 -80
26 9 R 20 3 60 -60 -140
27 16 20 4 80 144 64 -76
28 16 R 19 3 57 -57 -133
29 27 19 4 76 144 68 -65
30 34 R 18 3 54 -54 -119
31 24 18 4 72 144 72 -47
32 17 R 17 3 51 -51 -98
33 19 R 17 4 68 -68 -166
34 11 R 17 5 85 -85 -251
35 19 R 17 6 102 -102 -353
36 27 R 17 7 119 -119 -472
37 22 17 6 102 216 114 -358
38 29 16 5 80 180 100 -258
39 30 R 15 4 60 -60 -318
40 18 15 5 75 180 105 -213
41 27 R 14 4 56 -56 -269
42 3 14 5 70 180 110 -159
43 18 R 13 4 52 -52 -211
44 29 R 13 5 65 -65 -276
45 10 13 6 78 216 138 -138
46 17 R 12 5 60 -60 -198
47 33 12 6 72 216 144 -54
48 34 R 11 5 55 -55 -109
49 29 R 11 6 66 -66 -175
50 3 R 11 7 77 -77 -252
51 24 R 11 8 88 -88 -340
52 23 R 11 9 99 -99 -439
53 8 11 10 110 360 250 -189
54 25 R 10 9 90 -90 -279
55 21 10 10 100 360 260 -19
56 19 R 9 9 81 -81 -100
57 14 9 10 90 360 270 170
58 20 R 8 9 72 -72 98
59 36 R 8 10 80 -80 18
60 4 8 11 88 396 308 326


-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 09, 09:53 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 09, 05:30 PM 2016
Den of the 75 games theres only been games of 8,9,10 unique in first 10 spins, of those 75 games theres only 16 games where theres no repeat in 1st 10 spins, so about 80% of games give a repeat in first 10 spins

Uhm ok. But I'm betting after our 10 spins. Doesn't matter if there are 8-9-10 unique.
I will check your sheets in this thread too.
As I said...probably just luck. Hope not though. ^^
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 10, 12:56 AM 2016
Notto...I toke a look on all your ktf sheets you posted here.(written ones) . And some others too.
Didn't find a bust. Correct me if I'm wrong pls.

Estimated around +1500 units minimum.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 10, 04:24 AM 2016
Nevermind  :wink:
It tanked. But not when we get 10 non hits first. Still looking to bust at least ones.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 04:56 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 09, 03:27 PM 2016
Oh one more thing: if we get a hit straight away. And then go for one more....didn't busted yet. Just mention it. :o
Interesting! When I went through my sheets I found around 10 these for example:

... (10 non hit)
11 36 
12 18 R

Yes they are not many but they exists...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 05:04 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 09, 04:05 PM 2016
Just checked 43 more rng sessions.
Had 1 bust. But ended +480

So far 99 sessions gives a profit of +2434.
Maybe it's just luck. Anyway I'll keep looking at it.. who knows.  Lol
That's really good!

One question do you use some stop trigger?

I mean if you have a lot of repeaters in the beginning (11-21) do you not betting and restarts the session then?
I have had the RFH above and yesterday I had 5 repeaters in a streak from 12-16. In that sequence I used a stop trigger after 2 repeats so my loss was not so big. I can put up the numbers later today...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 10, 06:11 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Mar 10, 05:04 AM 2016
That's really good!

One question do you use some stop trigger?

I mean if you have a lot of repeaters in the beginning (11-21) do you not betting and restarts the session then?
I have had the RFH above and yesterday I had 5 repeaters in a streak from 12-16. In that sequence I used a stop trigger after 2 repeats so my loss was not so big. I can put up the numbers later today...

Not sure what you trying to ask. ....I not see anything wrong in what you post.

So we wait 10 unique.  Then we bet all those 10 nrs for a repeat . Stop. Retrack.
Iow a bust is 20 unique in a row.

With 7-8-9 unique in our first 10 spins I found busts. With 10 still haven't found one. But I'm sure I will.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 06:26 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 10, 06:11 AM 2016
Not sure what you trying to ask. ....I not see anything wrong in what you post.

So we wait 10 unique.  Then we bet all those 10 nrs for a repeat . Stop. Retrack.
Iow a bust is 20 unique in a row.

With 7-8-9 unique in our first 10 spins I found busts. With 10 still haven't found one. But I'm sure I will.
I'm not asking about your new theory (by the way I think is interesting).
I'm asking about when you are playing the original KTF.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 06:27 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 10, 06:11 AM 2016
Not sure what you trying to ask. ....I not see anything wrong in what you post.

So we wait 10 unique.  Then we bet all those 10 nrs for a repeat . Stop. Retrack.
Iow a bust is 20 unique in a row.

With 7-8-9 unique in our first 10 spins I found busts. With 10 still haven't found one. But I'm sure I will.
I'm not asking about your new theory (by the way I think is interesting).
I'm asking about when you are playing the original KTF.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 10, 06:42 AM 2016
Using my sheet before i came to using +1/-1 on KTF, i use to track the previous 10 spins, so lets say spins1-10 have no repeat, in spins11-20 i would watch to see if 1-10 repeat before 5th spin which would be spin 15,if they had not repeated i would then start to bet the 10 numbers. Most times it would win,sometimes i'd be still trying for the repeat in 21-30.

So todays #'s each previous 10 repeat in the next 10 spins
1-10 1 repeat
11-20 #29 repeats from spins1-10
21-30 #29 repeats from spins 11-20
31-40 #1 repeats from spins 21-30
41-50 #2 repeats from spins 31-40
51-60 #12 repeats from spins 41-50

No chance to bet for the repeat as they came early. It was just away to bet a small amount of #'s, but what if i'd started to bet straight away it could go the 5 and not repeated so thats 5 bets to early. On the FOBT i've seen a block of 10 spins miss for 30 plus spins, but you have to see if the wins will keep you in profit, so i left it alone and started just betting the non-hit, the larger group.
Like Azim says you could start after the win on KTF again, so todays win comes on spin 19 #1. now collect the next 10 spins,which would be spins 21-30, you can see it would win. But as i play on RNG i'd still move to another shop and be in a new stream of #'s.

Whilst printing the sheet, it reminded the above is just like 12 unique in x spins and we know that that would bust sometimes, so just keep to the original KTF, if you get the win target is it favorable to go for Celtics repeats
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 10, 06:47 AM 2016
Results may vary with real wheel players and the fobt

But given your results notto even i am now questioning that
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 07:17 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 10, 06:42 AM 2016
...we know that that would bust sometimes, so just keep to the original KTF, if you get the win target is it favorable to go for Celtics repeats
Thanks notto for the more explanation about the repeaters. I will also try this in my sessions!

If we talk about the KTF are you using some stop trigger or just not bet when you see a lot of repeaters in the first 5 (11-16)?
I have a stop trigger when KTF has done 2 losses in row. Because I think it is to hard to recovery. Yes I do recover occasionally but not always.. What do you think about this?
I also look at the trot as much as I can. But this can be an easy trigger to stop betting.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 10, 08:38 AM 2016
Tuddilue
This is why i dropped trying for repeats, 5/3/16 shows using previous 10 spins how it can fail.
Spins 11-20 get a repeat from 1st 10, 21-30 gets its repeat from 11-20, 21-30 does not repeat in the next 19 spins, but spins 31-40 do repeat in spins 41-50.
Like Azim said it’s better to restart or Winkel jump, so if you collected the next 10 spins,21-30 where the cycle of 37 you are in has shown how those 10 have missed, if you start again, the KTF is a winner.
To me it’s better to play for non-hits from the start of a fresh 37 spin cycle, the non-hit are the larger group and what are we expecting the larger group to do, hit
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 09:12 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 10, 08:38 AM 2016
Tuddilue
This is why i dropped trying for repeats, 5/3/16 shows using previous 10 spins how it can fail.
Spins 11-20 get a repeat from 1st 10, 21-30 gets its repeat from 11-20, 21-30 does not repeat in the next 19 spins, but spins 31-40 do repeat in spins 41-50.
Like Azim said it’s better to restart or Winkel jump, so if you collected the next 10 spins,21-30 where the cycle of 37 you are in has shown how those 10 have missed, if you start again, the KTF is a winner.
To me it’s better to play for non-hits from the start of a fresh 37 spin cycle, the non-hit are the larger group and what are we expecting the larger group to do, hit
Thanks notto!
Yes the repeaters can take long time before they arrive.  I have not been betting them before. I can understand why you have dropped it..

Here comes my session I had that I wonder how you should play?

So in the first 11-21 there is 7 repeaters with a streak of 5 as longest. I stopped at spin 13 and lost 68 but if I should have KTF the bankroll should bust. So do you have some tips around this one?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 10, 10:35 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 10, 12:56 AM 2016
Notto...I toke a look on all your ktf sheets you posted here.(written ones) . And some others too.
Didn't find a bust. Correct me if I'm wrong pls.

Estimated around +1500 units minimum.  :thumbsup:

-Denzie

Any busts are few and far between but look at some of the drawdowns.
For example spin #37 on post #466. I could not find which JJ this belonged to.
It is $986 .
Would you have continued to that level?
It won in the end.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 10, 10:43 AM 2016
Hi  tuddilue
Just looked at that sheet and your stop was the right decision, so you now restart collect spins 21-30 and get the win. Or start on another wheel, but Azim said if you restart in the stream it will win, so the above i guess he's right.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 10, 10:49 AM 2016
Think this is what your looking for. Its a live session at Aspers MK and it did make me keep the faith,
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 10, 11:04 AM 2016
Its like you said Celtic when going down 1 on the prog can be a problem and as i was at 8 units i did a, dont knock it till you try it i just took of the winning number but left it at 8, back to a new high and reset to 1unit, but believe me i was so tempted to repeat the above, but thought better of it and dropped to 1
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 11:10 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 10, 10:43 AM 2016
Hi  tuddilue
Just looked at that sheet and your stop was the right decision, so you now restart collect spins 21-30 and get the win. Or start on another wheel, but Azim said if you restart in the stream it will win, so the above i guess he's right.
Oh that was impressive. Look at the sheet now!
I restarted and collected the spins from 21-30. Look what I got 9+4..
Yes Azim had correct!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 10, 11:14 AM 2016
Good Tuddilue
Now more practice
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 10, 11:51 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Mar 10, 09:12 AM 2016
Thanks notto!
Yes the repeaters can take long time before they arrive.  I have not been betting them before. I can understand why you have dropped it..

Here comes my session I had that I wonder how you should play?

So in the first 11-21 there is 7 repeaters with a streak of 5 as longest. I stopped at spin 13 and lost 68 but if I should have KTF the bankroll should bust. So do you have some tips around this one?

That machine rou play on sure likes the repeats near the beginnining doesn' it.
Attached is a sheet showing two resets for this session.

As Notto and Winkel stated, sometimes you just have to do a reset.
Here I reset twice and Chart #3 was a KTF winner.

Also, look at the count to bet repeaters after spin #20 of Chart #3.
It doesn't get much better than that.

Here is the KTF payout sheet for Chart #3



S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
11 5 28 1 28 36 8 8
12 17 27 1 27 36 9 17
13 32 26 1 26 36 10 27
14 19 25 1 25 36 11 38
15 10 24 1 24 36 12 50-------------Quit and watch the count
16 28 23 1 23 36 13 63
17 1 22 1 22 36 14 77
18 20 R 21 1 21 -21 56
19 36 21 2 42 72 30 86
20 6 20 1 20 36 16 102
21 0 19 1 19 36 17 119



-Celtic


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 10, 12:01 PM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Mar 10, 11:10 AM 2016
Oh that was impressive. Look at the sheet now!
I restarted and collected the spins from 21-30. Look what I got 9+4..
Yes Azim had correct!

And look at the count after spin#20

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 10, 12:04 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 10, 11:04 AM 2016
Its like you said Celtic when going down 1 on the prog can be a problem and as i was at 8 units i did a, dont knock it till you try it i just took of the winning number but left it at 8, back to a new high and reset to 1unit, but believe me i was so tempted to repeat the above, but thought better of it and dropped to 1

I know.
I think that is the greed factor trying to slip in :twisted:

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 01:48 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 10, 11:51 AM 2016
That machine rou play on sure likes the repeats near the beginnining doesn' it.
Attached is a sheet showing two resets for this session.

As Notto and Winkel stated, sometimes you just have to do a reset.
Here I reset twice and Chart #3 was a KTF winner.

Also, look at the count to bet repeaters after spin #20 of Chart #3.
It doesn't get much better than that.
...
Yes that is correct. I almost always get a repeater in the early 3 (11-13).
It will be really interesting to see what will happen when you can do like this!

Yes that count is really impressive! The repeaters are coming  >:D

What are you using for program to make so nice sheets?  :thumbsup: Something you made by yourself?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 10, 03:33 PM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Mar 10, 01:48 PM 2016
Yes that is correct. I almost always get a repeater in the early 3 (11-13).
It will be really interesting to see what will happen when you can do like this!

Yes that count is really impressive! The repeaters are coming  >:D

What are you using for program to make so nice sheets?  :thumbsup: Something you made by yourself?

Open source Libre Office---same as Excel only free.
The jpg was just a printscreen shot.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 10, 03:45 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 10, 03:33 PM 2016
Open source Libre Office---same as Excel only free.
The jpg was just a printscreen shot.

-Celtic
Thanks,  that I must test!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Mar 10, 04:05 PM 2016
@tuddilue >> Of all the avatars here, yours freaks the s**t out of me the most.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 10, 04:43 PM 2016
Here is my play today at the B&M.
American Wheel  BR $400
The payout sheet is for KTF only.
I only played the repeats starting at spin #23 and bet all the single hits.

KTF Payout Sheet


S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
1 19 0 0 0 0
2 1 0 0 0 0
3 9 0 0 0 0
4 15 0 0 0 0
5 16 0 0 0 0
6 1 R 0 0 0 0
7 26 0 0 0 0
8 33 0 0 0 0
9 22 0 0 0 0
10 2 0 0 0 0
11 3 29 1 29 36 7 7
12 6 28 1 28 36 8 15
13 27 27 1 27 36 9 24
14 20 26 1 26 36 10 34------------Would have quit here
15 19 R 25 1 25 -25 9               Remember Greed Kills!!!
16 17 25 2 50 72 22 31
17 25 24 1 24 36 12 43
18 10 23 1 23 36 13 56
19 0 22 1 22 36 14 70
20 12 21 1 21 36 15 85
21 7 20 1 20 36 16 101
22 27 R 19 1 19 -19 82
23 30 19 2 38 72 34 116
24 6 R 18 1 18 -18 98
25 9 R 18 2 36 -36 62
26 20 18 3 54 108 54 116
27 20 R 17 2 34 -34 82
28 25 R 17 3 51 -51 31
29 12 R 17 4 68 -68 -37
30 7 R 17 5 85 -85 -122


-Celtic

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 11, 01:51 AM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Mar 10, 04:05 PM 2016
@tuddilue >> Of all the avatars here, yours freaks the s**t out of me the most.

Ken
He he ok. That was not my intention, sorry for that Mr J! I'm a big Ozzy Osbourne fan that is the reason for the Avatar..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Mar 11, 04:08 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Mar 11, 01:51 AM 2016
He he ok. That was not my intention, sorry for that Mr J! I'm a big Ozzy Osbourne fan that is the reason for the Avatar..
Saw Sabbath 1979. Original line up. Couldnt hear for 5 days
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 11, 04:35 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 11.3.16   KTF +53  KTF's Brother +19
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 11, 04:43 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 05, 05:40 AM 2016
Always looking for the easy bet. Theres something on the sheets, have a look, this should be right up RG's alley.

Big EZ

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Re: KTF
« Reply #498 on: March 07, 2016, 06:59:46 PM »

    Quote

Quote from: nottophammer on March 05, 2016, 10:40:33 AM

    Always looking for the easy bet. Theres something on the sheets, have a look, this should be right up RG's alley.


I agree  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 11, 10:34 AM 2016
Quote from: Turner on Mar 11, 04:08 AM 2016
Saw Sabbath 1979. Original line up. Couldnt hear for 5 days
He he impressive!  That would be something to experience!  Me for my part I have met him twice. A really humble and nice man!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 13, 10:05 AM 2016
-Notto

Where are yesterdays JJ numbers?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 13, 10:10 AM 2016
Jackpot 247  12.3.16  KTF +79 #12
jackpotjoy 12.3.16
1 15
2 2
3 9
4 29
5 1
6 25
7 22
8 35
9 6
10 0
11 22
12 17
13 13
14 0
15 8
16 8
17 30
18 18
19 0
20 17
21 21
22 27
23 15
24 1
25 27
26 36
27 5
28 8
29 36
30 20
31 6
32 14
33 12
34 32
35 19
36 26
37 0
38 25
39 24
40 29
41 33
42 36
43 5
44 21
45 27
46 4
47 5
48 35
49 29
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 13, 10:14 AM 2016
jackpot 247  13.3.16  KTF +66 #21 
jackpotjoy 13.3.16
1 4
2 23
3 33
4 4
5 2
6 14
7 10
8 29
9 25
10 16
11 19
12 4
13 17
14 19
15 28
16 14
17 14
18 1
19 31
20 28
21 1
22 30
23 26
24 8
25 16
26 13
27 16
28 35
29 19
30 25
31 11
32 8
33 30
34 18
35 21
36 6
37 5
38 25
39 13
40 13
41 31
42 25
43 12
44 7
45 13
46 31
47 1
48 25
49 27
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 13, 10:21 AM 2016
-Notto

Thank You for the JJ numbers

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 14, 06:01 AM 2016
jackpot 247  14.3.16   KTF +46 #29
jackpotjoy 14.3.16
1 22
2 33
3 7
4 13
5 32
6 21
7 22
8 15
9 24
10 10
11 24
12 6
13 6
14 12
15 17
16 11
17 23
18 36
19 24
20 8
21 29
22 8
23 25
24 0
25 7
26 28
27 12
28 16
29 31
30 3
31 35
32 23
33 4
34 9
35 22
36 26
37 27
38 15
39 24
40 33
41 35
42 1
43 21
44 6
45 35
46 19
47 31
48 26
49 7
50 23
51 0
52 13
53 26
54 23
55 9
56 23
57 16
58 36
59 31
60 14

61 17
62 18
63 12
64 8
65 32
66 20
67 11
68 0
69 4
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 14, 07:32 PM 2016
Code: [Select]

Spin   Color   Number   Bet   Win/Loose
1   r   27      
2   r   2   1   -1
3   b   29   2   2
4   b   6      
5   r   4      
6   b   18   1   1
7   r   36      
8   r   32   1   -1
9   r   4   2   -2
10   b   30      
11   b   17      
12   b   28      
13   b   32      
14   r   27      
15   b   24   4   4
16   r   3      
17   r   12   1   -1
18   r   12   2   -2
19   r   30      
20   r   12      
21   b   31      
22   r   9      
23   b   2   4   4
24   r   9      
25   b   11   1   1
26   r   9      
27   g   0   1   -1
28   r   25      
29   r   5   2   -2
30   b   29   4   4
31   b   35      
32   b   13      
33   b   24      
34   r   16      
35   b   13   1   1
36   r   16      
37   b   31   1   1
38   b   4      
39   r   3      
40   r   1   1   -1
41   b   17   2   2
42   b   28      
43   b   6      
44   r   32      

These are Rourkes #'s  +46  if its a zero wheel
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 14, 10:49 PM 2016
Well gang another great day at the B&M.

I attached all of the original numbers that would have been KTF
I only played repeats again.

This was one of the tricky ones to play repeats where all that studying payed off.
I reset  and started a new chart so that spin #9 (17) was the first number.
After the 10th new spin I had 9/10
After the 20th spin the count was 8+3.
Note to Denzie--With a count this great so early in the sequence this is an example of where I will go for the fourth win before quitting, and had the count been 8+4 possibly 5 wins before quitting.

This is the KTF chart and remember this is an American 00 wheel.



S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
1 30
2 22
3 8
4 10
5 7
6 25
7 18
8 29
9 17
10 29 R
11 7 R 29 1 29 -29 -29
12 23 29 2 58 72 14 -15
13 7 R 28 1 28 -28 -43
14 25 R 28 2 56 -56 -99
15 33 28 3 84 108 24 -75
16 16 27 2 54 72 18 -57
17 2 26 1 26 36 10 -47
18 18 R 25 1 25 -25 -72
19 21 25 2 50 72 22 -50
20 3 24 1 24 36 12 -38
21 31 23 1 23 36 13 -25
22 25 R 22 1 22 -22 -47
23 33 R 22 2 44 -44 -91
24 19 22 3 66 108 42 -49
25 28 21 2 42 72 30 -19
26 4 20 1 20 36 16 -3
27 0 19 1 19 36 17 14
28 34 18 1 18 36 18 32 -------- Would have quit here -------------
29 31 R 17 1 17 -17 15
30 22 R 17 2 34 -34 -19
31 21 R 17 3 51 -51 -70
32 15 17 4 68 144 76 6
33 28 R 16 3 48 -48 -42
34 4 R 16 4 64 -64 -106
35 14 16 5 80 180 100 -6
36 18 R 15 4 60 -60 -66
37 32 15 5 75 180 105 39
38 5 14 4 56 144 88 127
39 22 R 13 3 39 -39 88
40 5 R 13 4 52 -52 36




-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 15, 06:30 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 15.3.16  KTF +42 #14

Celticknits think you'll like these
jackpotjoy 15.3.16
1 22
2 4
3 0
4 27
5 9
6 1
7 0
8 12
9 8
10 12
11 9
12 3
13 9
14 29
15 31
16 6
17 34
18 21
19 33
20 14
21 32
22 31
23 3
24 8
25 34
26 11
27 28
28 7
29 30
30 4
31 24
32 13
33 16
34 35
35 14
36 17
37 11
38 11
39 36
40 3
41 4
42 24
43 23
44 7
45 2
46 25
47 10
48 25
49 23
50 18
51 20
52 3
53 30
54 33
55 34
56 36
57 31
58 3
59 11
60 36

61 6
62 28
63 33
64 6
65 17
66 22
67 0
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 15, 06:57 AM 2016
@ Celticknits. ... what's wrong with the first 8 spins?

4-5 hits on rng is suicide. No idea why.
3 is max to make profit.
On Airball 3 hits are perfectly possible. ..

Go figure. ... :o
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 15, 10:58 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 15, 06:57 AM 2016
@ Celticknits. ... what's wrong with the first 8 spins?

4-5 hits on rng is suicide. No idea why.
3 is max to make profit.
On Airball 3 hits are perfectly possible. ..

Go figure. ... :o

-Denzie

Nothing is the matter with the first 8 spins if you are playing KTF because there is nothing you can do about them but ride the wave or quit but remember I am only playing the repeats and by resetting I am eliminating most of the repeats that show up in the second set of 10 numbers which is where I am watching the count and looking for the opportunity to start betting.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 15, 11:31 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 15, 06:30 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 15.3.16  KTF +42 #14

Celticknits think you'll like these
jackpotjoy 15.3.16
1 22
2 4
3 0
4 27
5 9
6 1
7 0
8 12
9 8
10 12
11 9
12 3
13 9
14 29
15 31
16 6
17 34
18 21
19 33
20 14
21 32
22 31
23 3
24 8
25 34
26 11
27 28
28 7
29 30
30 4
31 24
32 13
33 16
34 35
35 14
36 17
37 11
38 11
39 36
40 3
41 4
42 24
43 23
44 7
45 2
46 25
47 10
48 25
49 23
50 18
51 20
52 3
53 30
54 33
55 34
56 36
57 31
58 3
59 11
60 36

61 6
62 28
63 33
64 6
65 17
66 22
67 0


-Notto

Oh yeah!!!
+$84 in 5 spins
Gotta love it.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 16, 06:28 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 16.03.16 KTF +43 #4
jackpotjoy 16.3.16
1 21
2 22
3 26
4 25
5 27
6 17
7 27
8 15
9 3
10 33
11 13
12 36
13 21
14 19
15 6
16 18
17 21
18 30
19 19
20 4
21 4
22 7
23 36
24 23
25 33
26 34
27 31
28 14
29 1
30 3
31 22
32 10
33 17
34 10
35 24
36 27
37 18
38 16
39 36
40 8
41 6
42 15
43 21
44 6
45 28
46 14
47 31
48 25
49 17
50 34
51 5
52 20
53 22
54 9
55 15
56 12
57 2
58 9
59 30
60 22

61 11
62 17
63 10
64 31
65 22
66 17
67 30
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 16, 01:02 PM 2016
Yesterdays excursion to the B&M.
American 00 wheel.
This would have been the KTF outcome.


S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
1 10
2 36
3 15
4 0
5 27
6 29
7 34
8 33
9 1
10 22
11 32 28 1 28 36 8 8
12 3 27 1 27 36 9 17
13 16 26 1 26 36 10 27
14 27 R 25 1 25 -25 2
15 26 25 2 50 72 22 24
16 25 24 1 24 36 12 36------ Would have quit here -----------
17 9 23 1 23 36 13 49
18 15 R 22 1 22 -22 27
19     2 22 2 44 72 28 55
20 21 21 1 21 36 15 70
21 6 20 1 20 36 16 86-------Count is 8+3 ---- Started betting repeats ---
22    16 R 19 1 19 -19 67
23    36 R 19 2 38 -38 29
24    15 R 19 3 57 -57 -28
25    16 R 19 4 76 -76 -104
26    34 R 19 5 95 -95 -199
27 29 R 19 6 114 -114 -313
28 31 19 7 133 252 119 -194
29 9 R 18 6 108 -108 -302
30 19 18 7 126 252 126 -176


I have come to the conclusion that one of the reasons I have done EXTREMELY well with this is my patience in waiting for a good count before betting the repeats.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 16, 01:41 PM 2016
Good job, Celtic!
What strategy were you playing till now?

For how long before are you playing Roulette, if it is not too much to ask!?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Foolwise on Mar 16, 05:28 PM 2016
Can some one tell me what 8-3 means. Is it the number of repeaters - non-repeaters?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 16, 05:56 PM 2016
Its to do with spins 11-30. It seems fair to say you get 15 non-hit in 30 spins, can be +/- either way or dead on.
If you break it down to 3 blocks of 10 spins, you'd expect to get 5 non-hit in each 10 spins, so todays spins 11-20 got 7 non-hit so +2, so fast trot more non-hit than repeats
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 16, 06:09 PM 2016
2 games earlier tonight on FOBT.
1st game got the 15 non-hit in 30 spins, game 2 was -2, but you can see 1st game was -1 in spins 11-20 where as game 2 was +0

What you have to decide is are you going to play KTF which is just betting the non-hits with +1/-1 or are you going to watch the trot of 0x's verses 1x's and >1x's,if you choose this way then you'll need to watch how the 1x's are behaving and later the 1x's+>1x's, as at the start all 37 non-hit are DUE
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Foolwise on Mar 16, 06:15 PM 2016
Thank you very much nottophammer. You now got me confused. Spins 11-30 is 20 spins. The average of non-hits in 30 spins is 15. We are starting to play after 10 spins of no repeats. Then in the remaining 20 spins we should expect 5 non-hits and 15 repeaters. Why are we playing KTF on non-hits and not repeaters. Common sense says play for repeaters as we can expect repeaters 15 times and non-hits only 5 times. It is quite possible that am not able to see the obvious.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 16, 06:28 PM 2016
yes my mistake 11-40 been a long day
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 16, 06:58 PM 2016
FW
Heres the last 3 days from Jackpot 247.com
All 3 games spins 11-20 more non-hit than repeats. On the 15.3.16 spins 21-30 50/50 with non-hit and repeats. All 3 games end 40th spin in favour of non-hits.
If you want to go for repeats best look over Celticknits replies
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Big EZ on Mar 16, 07:53 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 16, 01:02 PM 2016

I have come to the conclusion that one of the reasons I have done EXTREMELY well with this is my patience in waiting for a good count before betting the repeats.

-Celtic

What do you find to be a good count, is there a certain threshold
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 12:00 AM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Mar 16, 01:41 PM 2016
Good job, Celtic!
What strategy were you playing till now?

For how long before are you playing Roulette, if it is not too much to ask!?

-Nextyear

I am not sure if you are asking how long I have been playing roulette or when I started to bet the repeats on my 15Mar16 post so I will give you both answers.
1. I joined the forum on January 12, 2016 to learn about roulette.
Prior to that I did not play roulette at all.
I am not new to gambling however and have played blackjack for almost 40 years.
With all the rule changes in blackjack I decided I would look for another game to concentrate on.
2. I started to bet for the repeats on spin #21 but remember I am not playing KTF I am playing for repeats to hit.

I am not using any other strategy and tried a few others very briefly in the beginning but it took too long to make money with them.
No need to play any other strategy as I am making a killing playing for repeats and leave the casino within an hour with around $100.00 profit which is the stop level that I set for myself.

NOTE: If you look at ALL the posts in this thread you will see where I gave several sources for the information that I use to play the repeats.

To respect Notto I only post all of the numbers for that session and the KTF payout sheet, after all, this is a KTF thread.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 12:06 AM 2016
Quote from: Big EZ on Mar 16, 07:53 PM 2016
What do you find to be a good count, is there a certain threshold

-Big EZ

8+3 at spin #20 is good for me.

Not sure what you mean by a threshold.
My win threshold is +$100 / session if that is what you mean.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 17, 01:47 AM 2016
Thanks Celtic,

yes I was asking for overall (gambling) experience.
As I have almost none, it's good to hear that you didn't lose your shirt after 40 years of trying...

I think it is all explained with KTF (Thanks Notto!  :thumbsup:), but your successful playing on repeats is still enigmatic.

I also, as EZ, don't follow what is 8+3 in your counting...

Quote from: Big EZ on Mar 16, 07:53 PM 2016
What do you find to be a good count, is there a certain threshold

For threshold he asks if 7+2 or 6+2 (whatever this is) would be enough good count.

Your posts and tables are also very helpful (to have them, for time when one decide to go for deeper analysis).

Thanks Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 17, 05:05 AM 2016
I want to ask a little bit more about the RFH. How do you decide when the trot is not favorable to bet on? When do you decide that the trot is slow and has to many repeaters in the beginning?

I mean the trot is not revealing itself before spin 13 if it is a fast or slow trot. Because we want to have a fast trot with a lot of unhits. If we start at 11 and bet for unhits you are betting without knowing what is going to happen...

Winkel wrote this for example:
Quote from: winkel on Jan 15, 04:08 PM 2011
First Point we do a check is spin 13:

We expect (see above) 10-11 different numbers.
If we have 13 different hit numbers we call this trot "fast"
If we have less than 10 hit different numbers we call this trot "slow"

Do you use some more variables than spin 13 to see this?
Are you using the AVG document? I mean the only thing we know is the first 10 numbers. Can we use that information some how?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ramonnetje on Mar 17, 05:51 AM 2016
Hi Notto, you keep mentioning that the avg in 30spins in 15.70212.. which means 5 non hits for each box of 10. The problem with this I think is that the probability that a non hit occurs in box 11-20 is much more likely than a hit for box 31-40 given that more cookies have neem eaten from the yar in box 31-40 and the likelihood one will be eaten again is relatively smaller than for box 11-20. Than my question is, if the likelihood a non hit will fall is not linear over 11-20/21-30/31-40 as you mention but more logarithmic, how does that affect your TROT and moreover how do I have to interpret it? I see you writing down for example 8+3, 5+0 etc to watch the trot, but the TROT over 11-40 is not linear, how exactly do I have to intepret this trend over the sequence of numbers?

Thank you
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ramonnetje on Mar 17, 06:18 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Mar 17, 05:05 AM 2016
I want to ask a little bit more about the RFH. How do you decide when the trot is not favorable to bet on? When do you decide that the trot is slow and has to many repeaters in the beginning?

I mean the trot is not revealing itself before spin 13 if it is a fast or slow trot. Because we want to have a fast trot with a lot of unhits. If we start at 11 and bet for unhits you are betting without knowing what is going to happen...

Winkel wrote this for example:
Do you use some more variables than spin 13 to see this?
Are you using the AVG document? I mean the only thing we know is the first 10 numbers. Can we use that information some how?

tuddilue. I think that is a very good and relevant question. I am wondering what is the answer to that one. When is the trot (un)favorabel?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 06:35 AM 2016
 ramonnetje
Lets forget the Maths as KTF is just about betting non-hits. It's simple even my mother-in-law can do it, you have 10 spins, lets say no repeat, now you just bet the non-hit using +1/-1, when you stop is up to you.

Now the maths part, i'm no maths person, so all i see is over a few hundred recorded games is spins 11-40 gives on avg  15.70212 numbers, so i conveniently drop the point part,thus 15 non-hit in 30 spins. I do remember i should round it up,but i dont.
So if  11-20/21-30/31-40 achive 15 non-hit i think you should see 5 non-hit in each group, like you say 11-20 should have the larger group of non-hit which is what i want in KTF the non-hit hitting.
I see you writing down for example 8+3, 5+0 etc to watch the trot, okay if you've had 10 non-hit in spins 1-10, 27 non-hit left, so as you sit there watching spins 11-20 and like you say we should still see more non-hit than 1 hits, so you've waited till 20 spins have past and in spins 11-20 you got 8 non-hit, so 8 would be 3 more than the expected 5, +3.
Now with the trot showing 18 non-hit have come, what is going to show up,perhaps a 50/50 of 0X's and 1X's, i know i would favour going for the one- hits.
Its just an aid to watch the trot.
Now some good words from Azim to understand the trot you need to practice,practice, but for a simple method that you dont care what the trot is doing is KTF just betting non-hit.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ramonnetje on Mar 17, 07:36 AM 2016
Hi Notto,
Thanks for you fast response. Sure I want to play KTF but since you have mentioned the importance of the trot I want to fully understand it to benefit from it. I can understand that the trot is supposed to be a tool to aid you in your betting process. However, what I fail to understand that understanding the trot is something that comes with experience (Like Azim says). I mean, once we know the rules, we know how to apply them, therefor experience in this matter is irrelevant. If this, than that.

With all due respect "So if  11-20/21-30/31-40 achive 15 non-hit i think you should see 5 non-hit in each group, like you say 11-20 should have the larger group of non-hit which is what i want in KTF the non-hit hitting."  this is simply not true. The likelihood for hit/non hit to occur over 11-20/21-30/31-40 is NOT equally divided among the three groups. I think if yo would look at your data sheet and count the avarage ratio hit/non hit for box 2,3 and 4 you can see that the trend is not linear. This does not say i disapprove of the trot, it just makes me wonder how to understand it correctly. What is the trend and how does the development of the trend aids me in the betting process.

If I look at it from a common sense point of view I would just say plot a graph that shows the avarage distribution of the hit non/hit over box 2,3 and 4. This is the average and any deviation from the avarage aids you in your betting process. For example if the mean is 5 and deviation from that mean is 3 hits (i.e. 5+3) than the likelihood that a non hit occurs has increased apposed to a situation where the has not occured.

What do you think


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Big EZ on Mar 17, 08:11 AM 2016
Celtic,
Thanks for your answer. As far as threshold is concerned I meant in regards to the count.

8+3
7+2
6+1

I was just basically wondering if you have a preference


Quote from: nextyear on Mar 17, 01:47 AM 2016

I also, as EZ, don't follow what is 8+3 in your counting...


nextyear.....
Please do not assume I do not know what is going on and speak on my behalf. Thank you
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 08:38 AM 2016
You want to play KTF, you dont need to watch the trot as you just betting non-hit, so no need for trot watching.
Now box 2,3,4, well look what happens on todays Jackpot 247.com, box 2 +0, box 3 +0 box 4 -1. So box 2,3 the trot is 50/50. The next spin KTF is finished +41 it does not need to know what the trot is doing as i said is just betting the non-hit.

Now, Winkel,i hope would say if your watching the trot  and you see spins 32 to 37 are repeats, what would your decision be, to carry on and bet for more repeats, No, at 37 spins we've only had 21 non-hit, so you would now surely go for non-hit,look it balances out 6 non-hit on the bounce.

At the end of the day MATH says you will get caught, but when, KTF using jackpot 247.com has lost once in 83 games. Why, to me, because it uses the larger group non-hit.

To me the DUE argument, when you arrive what have you got, 37 non-hit, 50% of jackpot games are 9/10 in spins 1-10, so the larger group are more favorable to bet.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 08:39 AM 2016
+41
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 29 36
2 17 35
3 32 34
4 2 33
5 31 32
6 14 31
7 0 30
8 34 29
9 28 28 stake
10 21 27 non-hit return
11 20 26 1 27 36 9
12 27 25 1 26 36 19
13 14 r 1 25 0 -6
14 11 24 2 50 72 16
15 34 r 1 24 0 -8
16 20 r 2 48 0 -56
17 9 23 3 72 108 -20
18 34 r 2 46 0 -66
19 6 22 3 69 108 -27
20 34 r 2 44 0 -71
21 13 21 3 66 108 -29
22 32 r 2 42 0 -71
23 18 20 3 63 108 -26
24 19 19 2 40 72 6
25 27 r 1 19 0 -13
26 11 r 2 38 0 -51
27 7 18 3 57 108 0
28 18 r 2 36 0 -36
29 26 17 3 54 108 18
30 31 r 2 34 0 -16
31 4 16 3 51 108 41 stop
32 34 r 4
33 21 r 5
34 7 r 6
35 14 r 7
36 21 r 8
37 32 r 9
38 33 15 10
39 3 14 9
40 35 13 8
41 10 12 7
42 1 11 6
43 22 10 5
44 2 r
45 29 9
46 8 r
47 17 r
48 2 r
49 17 r
50 18 r
51 19 r
52 32 r
53 20 r
54 5 8
55 35 r
56 12 7
57 5 r
58 2 r
59 16 6
60 22

61 21
62 9
63 35
64 24
65 30
66 2
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 17, 09:24 AM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Mar 17, 01:47 AM 2016
I also, as EZ, don't follow what is 8+3 in your counting...
For threshold he asks if 7+2 or 6+2 (whatever this is) would be enough good count.

Sorry, just understood that it is the same 8+3 from KTF!
For a moment I thought you have your own 8+3 for repeaters...

Just forget it, please.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 17, 09:38 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 17, 06:35 AM 2016
Its just an aid to watch the trot.
Now some good words from Azim to understand the trot you need to practice,practice, but for a simple method that you dont care what the trot is doing is KTF just betting non-hit.
Thanks notto for a quick answer!
Yes it was as I suspected it is really hard to know when the RFH will arrive. You need more data if you are going to use the GUT to figure it out. I totally agree that KTF is a simple method that is betting non-hit and that its works.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ramonnetje on Mar 17, 09:39 AM 2016
Well sure that distribution looks really nice, but one sample does not represent the whole population, obviously. Anyway, I get you are betting for the larger group and that larger groups represent better odds for winning. However, larger groups of non hits also mean larger bets. And once you loose one round, you need to win more than one round to make up for the loss. Therefor it is all relative. I bet if you do the math, chance to win (36/hits) x betting amount < chance to loose (36/non hits) x betting amount

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 17, 09:58 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 17, 08:38 AM 2016


At the end of the day MATH says you will get caught, but when, KTF using jackpot 247.com has lost once in 83 games. Why, to me, because it uses the larger group non-hit.



Notto I am beyond convinced that ktf works.

The one bust you had in 83 games, what was the stop loss?

Whatever stop loss you are using works if you only have to use it 1 out of 83 times

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 10:54 AM 2016
Now if you really like to know box 2 avg is 7 non-hit,box 3 avg is 5 and box 4  avg is 3. But you'll give some math jargon that means not a lot to me.
Like maestro if your going to talk z score, other math stuff, dont bother as i will be betting non-hit not waiting for the math to kick in
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Foolwise on Mar 17, 11:15 AM 2016
Quote from: ramonnetje on Mar 17, 09:39 AM 2016
Well sure that distribution looks really nice, but one sample does not represent the whole population, obviously. Anyway, I get you are betting for the larger group and that larger groups represent better odds for winning. However, larger groups of non hits also mean larger bets. And once you loose one round, you need to win more than one round to make up for the loss. Therefor it is all relative. I bet if you do the math, chance to win (36/hits) x betting amount < chance to loose (36/non hits) x betting amount
Believe me ramonnetje, I had the same views when I looked at this yesterday. But after playing through several series, and running simulations through multiple sets I can better see whats happening here. You are absolutely right in terms of larger groups mean larger bets and you need to win more than one round to make for the losses. And the formula is also only true if you are doing flat bets. Largely there is a correlation between what is happening in spins 1-10 and 11-40. Sure there are outliers. In my trials I have also got 10 non-hits in the first 10, but only one non-hit in the next 30. Following is how it looks like for the first 10 spins and the next 40 for over 1600 trials of 40 spins.

(link:://oi67.tinypic.com/154yhrc.jpg)

Am getting an average non-hit of 16.5 in 11-30 when considering only 10 non-hits and 9 non-hits in the first 10 spins. Sure that comes down from 16.9 when i consider all possibilities in 10 spins. It all comes down to finding the optimum number to go for and then the progression associated with it, as there are hundreds of possibilities depending on the position in which the non-hits come through. Earlier they come the better and 11-20 is really the key.

After all as the name indicates, I think one should just Keep the faith and go blind when playing this one. I am getting similar results like notto in my trials so far.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ramonnetje on Mar 17, 12:27 PM 2016
Notto: and surely I respect that. It is not that I am not disapproving anything you do, I just want to make sense out of it. But so far your strategy has been paying off so no complaints  ;D Good luck!

Foolwise: that looks really interesting. Do you think you would be able incorporate bankroll progression for all the 1600 trials? Than look at box 2,3,4. In how many of the trials would you end up with $40+ and how many trials do not reach 40$ and eventually will bust putting the tresshold at $-400. Omitting the human factor that tells us when to quite or not, just looking at raw data. Do you see that the total of $40+ trials when accumulated is larger than the total of losses? What does it tell you? I am also interested whether there is a difference for 7/10, 8/10, 9/10 and 10/10. Furthermore I am interested how the winnings are distributed over box 1 (11-20), 2(21-30), 3(31-40). Would you be capable of looking into that? I think that would provide us with some sort of proof right, and moreover first step towards creating some rules. I think for example if we could say that when 9/10 and you have 2/3 hits on 11-15 you should continue betting because the odds are in your favor by x%. What do you think? In the end we cannot predict something that is randomized, however you can try to benefit from certain trends and progression of numbers. Atleast that is what I think
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Foolwise on Mar 17, 12:37 PM 2016
I will try guvnor. Not now though, as I am bit short of time. But this is a very interesting one for me and I will send updates as soon as am able to do something about this.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 01:58 PM 2016
Here are my B&M American 00 Wheel numbers from yesterday March 16th and the KTF payout sheet.

-Notto
Correct me if I am wrong but I think that it could be safely said that betting KTF is a method, follow the rules and you win more than you lose.
In comparison betting repeats is a strategy and there are decisions YOU have to make.

To clarify I only bet the repeats for several reasons:
1. There is more control over when you want to start betting --- In KTF you start betting the unhit numbers at spin #11 and ride the wave or pick a spot to quit with a win or loss.
2. I have found that the drawdowns are a lot smaller betting the repeats --- In the numbers posted here look at the bet at spin #46. Myself, I am not willing to risk $902 to make the $30-$40 KTF win limit.
3. I want to spend as little time as possible looking for approximately a $100 win. With todays posted numbers I started betting the repeats at spin #27 and quit after spin #31 with $78 profit which means I was only sitting at the table for a total of 16 spins, and only betting on 5 spins.

I would suggest that if you are interested in betting repeats you take todays posted numbers, or your own, and see how you would have bet the repeats.

AT THIS TIME I WOULD LIKE TO AGAIN APOLOGIZE TO NOTTO FOR BRINGING UP BETTING REPEATS AND STATE THAT I WILL NOT ANSWER ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS REGARDING REPEATS IN THIS THREAD. THIS IS THE KTF THREAD AND KTF HAS A SET METHOD OF PLAY THAT HAS BEEN OUTLINED MANY TIMES IN IT'S PAGES. IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION REGARDING BETTING REPEATS PLEASE PM ME.

March 16 1016 KTF payout sheet



S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 34 28 1 28 36 8 8
12 00 27 1 27 36 9 17
13 5 R 26 1 26 -26 -9
14 14 R 26 2 52 -52 -61
15 12 R 26 3 78 -78 -139
16 24 26 4 104 144 40 -99
17 33 25 3 75 108 33 -66
18 18 R 24 2 48 -48 -114
19 19 R 24 3 72 -72 -186
20 9 24 4 96 144 48 -138
21 24 R 23 3 69 -69 -207
22 4 R 23 4 92 -92 -299
23 15 23 5 115 180 65 -234
24 31 22 4 88 144 56 -178
25 21 21 3 63 108 45 -133
26 32 20 2 40 72 32 -101
27 29 19 1 19 36 17 -84
28 21 R 18 1 18 -18 -102
29 00 R 18 2 36 -36 -138
30 34 R 18 3 54 -54 -192
31 5 R 18 4 72 -72 -264
32 26 18 5 90 180 90 -174
33 25 17 4 68 144 76 -98
34 12 R 16 3 48 -48 -146
35 15 R 16 4 64 -64 -210
36 00 R 16 5 80 -80 -290
37 11 16 6 96 216 120 -170
38 31 R 15 5 75 -75 -245
39 30 R 15 6 90 -90 -335
40 6 15 7 105 252 147 -188
41 14 R 14 6 84 -84 -272
42 15 R 14 7 98 -98 -370 ----------- Suggested BR for KTF is $400 ---Now what???
43 15 R 14 8 112 -112 -482
44 35 R 14 9 126 -126 -608
45 11 R 14 10 140 -140 -748----------------- Next bet is a $902 risk
46 8 14 11 154 396 242 -506
47 3 13 10 130 360 230 -276
48 2 12 9 108 324 216 -60
49 1 11 8 88 288 200 140
50 3 R 10 7 70 -70 70
51 33 R 10 8 80 -80 -10
52 0 10 9 90 324 234 224
53 36 9 8 72 288 216 440
54 22 8 7 56 252 196 636
55 7 7 6 42 216 174 810
56 14 R 6 5 30 -30 780



-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 02:09 PM 2016
Celts your box 2,3,4 look fimilar, oh yes todays jackpots boxes as the mathboys call them. Must be a fluke >:D
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 17, 02:11 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 17, 09:58 AM 2016
Notto I am beyond convinced that ktf works.

The one bust you had in 83 games, what was the stop loss?

Whatever stop loss you are using works if you only have to use it 1 out of 83 times

Thanks

Notto. You had 1 bust. What was your stoploss?. Thanks

Word on the street is 400. Thanks again
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 17, 02:21 PM 2016
@ Celticknits. .... I would choose a different session. Or next table   ;D
What I do frequently is go for 1 hit if the count not good. Don't we always get 1 hit ?
Over 400 rng sessions now. And I had 1 ....yes 1 session where I didn't got 1 hit. (Yes real money). Best thing I ever seen.

Any of you guys/girls know some online live casino where you have 45 seconds or more to place your bets ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 17, 02:29 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 17, 02:21 PM 2016
@ Celticknits. .... I would choose a different session. Or next table   ;D
What I do frequently is go for 1 hit if the count not good. Don't we always get 1 hit ?
Over 400 rng sessions now. And I had 1 ....yes 1 session where I didn't got 1 hit. (Yes real money). Best thing I ever seen.

Any of you guys/girls know some online live casino where you have 45 seconds or more to place your bets ?
So this is your 10 progression you where talking the other day? So it is working?

He he of course I now a live casino  :wink:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 02:38 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 17, 02:09 PM 2016
Celts your box 2,3,4 look fimilar, oh yes todays jackpots boxes as the mathboys call them. Must be a fluke >:D

-Notto

I do not see it.

When I play I use a sheet similiar to yours but it is such a mess by the end of the session that I also record the numbers onto one of the cards provided by the casino and use it to make up the charts posted. Attached is that card from yesterdays session.

Edited:------I  think see what you mean. Was not aware you were talking about the trot/count and thought you were talking about the actual numbers. Boy that would have been interesting.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 02:46 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 17, 02:21 PM 2016
@ Celticknits. .... I would choose a different session. Or next table   ;D
I would too but as we only have one table at my casino I just do a reset

What I do frequently is go for 1 hit if the count not good. Don't we always get 1 hit ?
Over 400 rng sessions now. And I had 1 ....yes 1 session where I didn't got 1 hit. (Yes real money). Best thing I ever seen.

Any of you guys/girls know some online live casino where you have 45 seconds or more to place your bets ?
Had to laugh....It is a challenge getting the bets out there at the beginning sometimes.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 02:52 PM 2016
 denzie
try jackpot247.com its airball think they have 45 seconds
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 17, 03:01 PM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Mar 17, 02:29 PM 2016
So this is your 10 progression you where talking the other day? So it is working?

He he of course I now a live casino  :wink:

No no , this is playing NCRS .

I need ONLINE live casino  ;)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 17, 03:02 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 17, 02:52 PM 2016
denzie
try jackpot247.com its airball think they have 45 seconds

Alright thanks Notto. Good idea actually. As I win on ALL your sheets posted here.

More casino's?  Anyone?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 17, 03:06 PM 2016
@ Celticknits. .. on airball it's very doable. Coz here you can set your unit size first. So we maximum need to put 15 bets out there.

The important issue is that we have a table layout on paper for placing our bets from left to right. If you need to start mixing and searching then.....rip
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 17, 03:26 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 17, 03:01 PM 2016
No no , this is playing NCRS .

I need ONLINE live casino  ;)
I think the airball at Bwin also is 45s. Will be interesting to see how it goes, good luck  :smile:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 03:32 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 17, 03:06 PM 2016
@ Celticknits. .. on airball it's very doable. Coz here you can set your unit size first. So we maximum need to put 15 bets out there.

The important issue is that we have a table layout on paper for placing our bets from left to right. If you need to start mixing and searching then.....rip


-Denzie

re-The important issue is that we have a table layout on paper for placing our bets from left to right. If you need to start mixing and searching then.....rip


RIP is right.
You always make me laugh.

I think we have all been there done that but even with 50 seconds I have come down to the wire several times and nearly missed placing the bets in KTF because I am placing up to 28 bets on first spin of KTF. Then of course there's the time that another player asks you to explain how you are betting as you are trying to get the bets out there.

-Celtic

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 17, 03:36 PM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Mar 17, 03:26 PM 2016
I think the airball at Bwin also is 45s. Will be interesting to see how it goes, good luck  :smile:

Thx, I'll check it out.

Btw...speaking of a 10 step progression on max 10 numbers. .... I checked all my sheets  (and there a looooot ).... if I would bet on spin 11 only of each session with the progression I posted....max I get was 9 steps. Not one bust in over 400 sessions! 
So track 10 spins. Bet those on spin 11. I don't play this but it catches my eyes.  :)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 17, 03:42 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 17, 03:32 PM 2016

I think we have all been there done that but even with 50 seconds I have come down to the wire several times and nearly missed placing the bets in KTF because I am placing up to 28 bets on first spin of KTF. Then of course there's the time that another player asks you to explain how you are betting as you are trying to get the bets out there.

-Celtic

I agree...28 is a lot. Stress kicking in. Lol
When it comes down to some guys asking questions. ...I totally 100% ignore them till I'm done. And even then I ain't saying nothing. They probably think I'm a *ss hole
..but I'm not there to make friends  ;)
Sometimes I have the ipod in with no music. I just pretend I don't see or hear them. I know. ..it's not nice....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 04:08 PM 2016
Okay to get over placing 28 chips you could do like i have on occasions when Mrs hammer has come to the B+M, one places the 1st 18 the other places the top 18, so you've halved the table.
nothing wrong in having a partner you can make the wins,so its just split between two.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 04:29 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 17, 04:08 PM 2016
Okay to get over placing 28 chips you could do like i have on occasions when Mrs hammer has come to the B+M, one places the 1st 18 the other places the top 18, so you've halved the table.
nothing wrong in having a partner you can make the wins,so its just split between two.

Now that's a great idea.
How much does she get paid for helping? :wink:

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 04:53 PM 2016
The $20 she lost on the slots
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 04:54 PM 2016
83 games not long to the 100
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 05:02 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 17, 04:53 PM 2016
The $20 she lost on the slots

The same pay scale I use.
Great.

And, thank you for the updated Average sheet.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 17, 06:31 PM 2016
Thought we'd see and yes we get the win.
Now those repeats 21-30 Celtic how much they worth. Got 15 non-hit by 38th spin so +1 at 39th spin and still a spin to come
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 17, 07:08 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 17, 06:31 PM 2016
Thought we'd see and yes we get the win.
Now those repeats 21-30 Celtic how much they worth. Got 15 non-hit by 38th spin so +1 at 39th spin and still a spin to come

-Notto

I am only answering about the repeats because YOU asked.

Remember I take down the repeats when they hit and I always bet the 0 whether they are included in the initial set or not.
I am only looking for 3-4 Wins ie. around $100

-Celtic


FOOLWISE 17MAR16 (REPEATS)
21 0 R 17 1 17 36 19 19
22 32 16 1 16 -16 3
23 27 R 16 2 32 72 40 43
24 9 R 15 1 15 36 21 64
25 2 14 1 14 -14 50
26 11 R 14 2 28 72 44 94 --- I would have quit here ---
27 4 R 13 1 13 36 23 117
28 26 R 12 1 12 36 24 141
29 6 R 11 1 11 36 25 166
30 35 10 1 10 -10 156
31 1 10 2 20 -20 136
32 35 10 3 30 -30 106
33 11 10 4 40 -40 66
34 4 10 5 50 -50 16
35 5 10 6 60 -60 -44
36 14 10 7 70 -70 -114
37 22 R 10 8 80 288 208 94
38 34 9 7 63 -63 31
39 30 9 6 54 -54 -23

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Foolwise on Mar 17, 07:23 PM 2016
The next few spins were

34, 13, 31, 31, 30, 20, 6, 17, 20, 30, 35, 9, 3, 28, 12, 19

And by the way, very good win  ::)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 17, 07:47 PM 2016
Hammer

You have put so much effort into these sheets and explaining

Im grateful

Need more like you
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 18, 03:23 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 18.3.16  KTF +40
Hi RG a thousand units handles this game to the end where it wins +108, but me i'd be happy with the +40


spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 24 36
2 17 35
3 20 34
4 26 33
5 5 32
6 8 31
7 17 r
8 5 r
9 13 30 stake
10 22 29 non-hit return
11 23 28 1 29 36 7
12 9 27 1 28 36 15
13 29 26 1 27 36 24
14 24 r 1 26 0 -2
15 1 25 2 52 72 18
16 24 r 1 25 0 -7
17 13 r 2 50 0 -57
18 31 24 3 75 108 -24
19 23 r 2 48 0 -72
20 32 23 3 72 108 -36
21 20 r 2 46 0 -82
22 21 22 3 69 108 -43
23 2 21 2 44 72 -15
24 19 20 1 21 36 0
25 2 r 1 20 0 -20
26 19 r 2 40 0 -60
27 4 19 3 60 108 -12
28 35 18 2 38 72 22
29 12 17 1 18 36 40 stop
30 2 r 1 17 0 23
31 22 r 2 34 0 -11
32 12 r 3 51 0 -62
33 31 r 4 68 0 -130
34 34 16 5 85 180 -35
35 17 r 4 64 0 -99
36 31 r 5 80 0 -179
37 14 15 6 96 216 -59
38 9 r 5 75 0 -134
39 32 r 6 90 0 -224
40 34 r 7 105 0 -329
41 32 r 8 120 0 -449
42 24 r 9 135 0 -584
43 24 r 10 150 0 -734
44 18 14 11 165 396 -503
45 18 r 10 140 0 -643
46 30 13 11 154 396 -401
47 36 12 10 130 360 -171
48 9 r 9 108 0 -279
49 10 11 10 120 360 -39
50 29 r 9 99 0 -138
51 14 r 10 110 0 -248
52 3 10 11 121 396 27
53 2 r 10 100 0 -73
54 35 r 11 110 0 -183
55 3 r 12 120 0 -303
56 9 r 13 130 0 -433
57 5 r 14 140 0 -573
58 28 9 15 150 540 -183
59 14 r 14 126 0 -309
60 9 r 15 135 0 -444
0 -444
61 25 8 16 144 576 -12
62 36 r 15 120 0 -132
63 30 r 16 128 0 -260
64 29 r 17 136 0 -396
65 15 7 18 144 648 108
66 12 r
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 18, 05:44 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 17, 02:21 PM 2016
@ Celticknits. .... I would choose a different session. Or next table   ;D
What I do frequently is go for 1 hit if the count not good. Don't we always get 1 hit ?
Over 400 rng sessions now. And I had 1 ....yes 1 session where I didn't got 1 hit. (Yes real money). Best thing I ever seen.

Any of you guys/girls know some online live casino where you have 45 seconds or more to place your bets ?
@denzie
I'm a little curious about your 1 hit. When do you go for one hit? I mean what is your count? Or do you use the spin numbers? I mean after spin 5, 15, 21 for example?

How long is your progression? I understand that you are using +1/-1, but how many units before you stop?

How did it go for you on the online casinos, did it work?

Many questions sorry for that, but you got me curious when you say  "Best thing I ever seen."  :ooh:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 18, 08:30 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 18, 03:23 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 18.3.16  KTF +40
Hi RG a thousand units handles this game to the end where it wins +108, but me i'd be happy with the +40


spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 24 36
2 17 35
3 20 34
4 26 33
5 5 32
6 8 31
7 17 r
8 5 r
9 13 30 stake
10 22 29 non-hit return
11 23 28 1 29 36 7
12 9 27 1 28 36 15
13 29 26 1 27 36 24
14 24 r 1 26 0 -2
15 1 25 2 52 72 18
16 24 r 1 25 0 -7
17 13 r 2 50 0 -57
18 31 24 3 75 108 -24
19 23 r 2 48 0 -72
20 32 23 3 72 108 -36
21 20 r 2 46 0 -82
22 21 22 3 69 108 -43
23 2 21 2 44 72 -15
24 19 20 1 21 36 0
25 2 r 1 20 0 -20
26 19 r 2 40 0 -60
27 4 19 3 60 108 -12
28 35 18 2 38 72 22
29 12 17 1 18 36 40 stop
30 2 r 1 17 0 23
31 22 r 2 34 0 -11
32 12 r 3 51 0 -62
33 31 r 4 68 0 -130
34 34 16 5 85 180 -35
35 17 r 4 64 0 -99
36 31 r 5 80 0 -179
37 14 15 6 96 216 -59
38 9 r 5 75 0 -134
39 32 r 6 90 0 -224
40 34 r 7 105 0 -329
41 32 r 8 120 0 -449
42 24 r 9 135 0 -584
43 24 r 10 150 0 -734
44 18 14 11 165 396 -503
45 18 r 10 140 0 -643
46 30 13 11 154 396 -401
47 36 12 10 130 360 -171
48 9 r 9 108 0 -279
49 10 11 10 120 360 -39
50 29 r 9 99 0 -138
51 14 r 10 110 0 -248
52 3 10 11 121 396 27
53 2 r 10 100 0 -73
54 35 r 11 110 0 -183
55 3 r 12 120 0 -303
56 9 r 13 130 0 -433
57 5 r 14 140 0 -573
58 28 9 15 150 540 -183
59 14 r 14 126 0 -309
60 9 r 15 135 0 -444
0 -444
61 25 8 16 144 576 -12
62 36 r 15 120 0 -132
63 30 r 16 128 0 -260
64 29 r 17 136 0 -396
65 15 7 18 144 648 108
66 12 r


Yes im seeing if you get close to being -100 you may sweat a bit but the unhits have to hit eventually and you rebound

Good man
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 18, 12:11 PM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Mar 18, 05:44 AM 2016
@denzie
I'm a little curious about your 1 hit. When do you go for one hit? I mean what is your count?

If the count is +0 , +1 , +2 I go for 1 hit. Normally I start at spin 21. But here I wait till spin 23. If we didn't got a virtual hit then I go in. Make 1 hit and stop. Reset to new session.

How long is your progression? I understand that you are using +1/-1, but how many units before you stop?

As long it takes to get in profit. With a max of 420 units. (7 losses in a row). But let's say we get to high in the progression. Let's say at 5 or 6 units. And I get my hit. Then I look how much I'm down. If it's around -50 then I take the loss. Coz we get it back next session

How did it go for you on the online casinos, did it work?

Extremely good. Every day I gained 2-4 br

  "Best thing I ever seen."  :ooh:
Yep, didn't saw anything like this. I not even bother to play my other stuff. Btw it's RNG  ;)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 18, 01:04 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 18, 12:11 PM 2016

Thanks @denzie for all your good answers!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 18, 06:46 PM 2016
Celtic please start a new thread explaining the count for repeaters. Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 19, 12:16 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 18, 06:46 PM 2016
Celtic please start a new thread explaining the count for repeaters. Thanks

-RG

I have to respectfully decline your offer.

Smarter people than me have already done, or attempted, this and I saw what happened to them.
Do a search on the main screen for "Winkel" or "Holy Grail".
I have mentioned this before in the KTF posts but also check out Azim's and Two Cat Sams posts.
Two Cat Sam even has several lengthy videos on You Tube describing G.U.T.
Notto also has a lot of information in his JJ thread.

By the way, attached are a couple of screenshots of what you may run up against even though you have been directed to those pages.
Look at the tabs in these shots and you will see that they reference Winkel's material. These were taken a few minures ago.

A teacher of mine once told me that the nice thing about banging your head on a brick wall is that it feels so good when you stop.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 19, 01:54 AM 2016
I agree with both sides @Celticknits and @RouletteGhost.  I have also said before that we should create a new thread but I also understand your problem Celticknits...

When you read the old Winkel GUT thread almost every answer he has written is empty and that makes me sad..

But the problem remains because we can't discuss two threads in one. I do not want to start a new thread and that is because I started betting repeaters yesterday. 

The description that denzie did made all for me. Maybe we can start from there. But who dares to create a thread?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 19, 09:18 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Mar 19, 01:54 AM 2016
I agree with both sides @Celticknits and @RouletteGhost.  I have also said before that we should create a new thread but I also understand your problem Celticknits...

When you read the old Winkel GUT thread almost every answer he has written is empty and that makes me sad..

But the problem remains because we can't discuss two threads in one. I do not want to start a new thread and that is because I started betting repeaters yesterday. 

The description that denzie did made all for me. Maybe we can start from there. But who dares to create a thread?

-Tuddilue

Looks like you may have gotten your wish.

KTF's cousin named WTF (if everyone agrees) (link:://KTF's%20cousin%20named%20WTF%20(if%20everyone%20agrees))

Why not post the description that Denzie gave you into that new thread and we will see what transpires from there

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 19, 09:28 AM 2016
Try here:

link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16732.0
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 19, 10:23 AM 2016
Yes of course I can write my findings. But I can do that when. I am home. But it will take a couple of hours from now. Hope you can wait  :twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 19, 10:33 AM 2016
Jackpot 247 .com 19.03.16 KTF +50  Made a mistake in the other thread can you see it,
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 19, 10:37 AM 2016
I love this is unstoppable on airball

Notto on airball do you write down history board or do u collect 10 new spins then begin
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 20, 06:10 AM 2016
Hi RG
If its a rare visit to the B+M, i'd use the last 8#'s on marquee as they are part of the 37 or 38 #'s you are going to use. But as you know i play on FOBT and the machine might not have spun for x amount of time,so in this situation i collect 10 #'s.
Remember what Wiggy said if on 00 wheel lower the win.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 20, 06:26 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 20.03.16  KTF +53
As i was transfering the #'s to the sheet, i could hear Celtic on the other topic, if a # repeats 3 times he'd reset, but i could hear the song Bon Jon, Keep the Faith, yes spins 11-20 makes one Keep the Faith, but spins 21-30 have KTF heading in the right direction, spins 31-40 you would be thinking 5 more non-hit possible, yes they come.
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 2 36
2 17 35
3 9 34
4 4 33
5 29 32
6 17 r
7 19 31
8 20 30
9 10 29 stake
10 14 28 non-hit return
11 9 r 1 28 0 -28
12 31 27 2 56 72 -12
13 24 26 1 27 36 -3
14 4 r 1 26 0 -29
15 9 r 2 52 0 -81
16 20 r 3 78 0 -159
17 1 25 4 104 144 -119
18 17 r 3 75 0 -194
19 17 r 4 100 0 -294
20 5 24 5 125 180 -239
21 15 23 4 96 144 -191
22 35 22 3 69 108 -152
23 34 21 2 44 72 -124
24 28 20 1 21 36 -109
25 35 r 1 20 0 -129
26 22 19 2 40 72 -97
27 28 r 1 19 0 -116
28 35 r 2 38 0 -154
29 21 18 3 57 108 -103
30 22 r 2 36 0 -139
31 27 17 3 54 108 -85
32 7 16 2 34 72 -47
33 5 r 1 16 0 -63
34 33 15 2 32 72 -23
35 16 14 1 15 36 -2
36 23 13 1 14 36 20
37 15 r 1 13 0 7
38 8 12 2 26 72 53 stop
39 23 r
40 31 r
41 20 r
42 36 11
43 4 r
44 20 r
45 9 r
46 11 10
47 25 9
48 9 r
49 2 r
50 20 r
51 36 r
52 5 r
53 7 r
54 32 8
55 32 r
56 28 r
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 20, 07:46 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 20, 06:26 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 20.03.16  KTF +53
As i was transfering the #'s to the sheet, i could hear Celtic on the other topic, if a # repeats 3 times he'd reset, but i could hear the song Bon Jon, Keep the Faith, yes spins 11-20 makes one Keep the Faith, but spins 21-30 have KTF heading in the right direction, spins 31-40 you would be thinking 5 more non-hit possible, yes they come.

-Notto

Just to clarify:
What I said was that I would not bet a number that had hit 3 times in the current sequence.
A reset, maybe, depending on the count and how I feel.

Todays JJ numbers are a case where actually the chances are I would not have played this at all because I would not have started betting until spin #46 when I was happy with the count but that would have meant I would have been at the table for at least an hour waiting for an entry point to start betting.
This has only happened at the B&M once or twice and in those cases I just went for a walk and came back later.

-Celtic


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 21, 05:55 AM 2016
KTF +41 #36
jackpotjoy 21.3.16
1 5
2 3
3 30
4 18
5 16
6 29
7 30
8 15
9 8
10 4
11 16
12 25
13 20
14 5
15 9
16 0
17 27
18 10
19 36
20 7
21 35
22 16
23 27
24 22
25 16
26 7
27 16
28 0
29 25
30 17
31 27
32 34
33 26
34 18
35 1
36 24
37 23
38 10
39 2
40 9
41 4
42 4
43 32
44 0
45 3
46 11
47 8
48 33
49 0
50 4
51 11
52 7
53 18
54 2
55 5
56 0
57 24
58 0
59 28
60 19

61 25
62 3
63 16
64 20
65 36
66 6
67 23
68 20
69 20
70 28
71 35
72 6
73 8
74 8
75 4
76 7
77 25
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 21, 07:10 AM 2016
Hey Notto,

Can you post your daily profit sheet?
Should starting to look really good
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 21, 05:26 PM 2016
On the drive to ladbrokes said to myself i bet this goes 1,2,1,2,3,4,3 units up high straight away.
So wrote the marquee #'s, theres 12 uniques to keep an eye on. Now i was on the 15th spin and could see the previous 4 spins no repeat of the marquee #'s, so i laid the 16, win, +5 using .25p units, thought nice.
Well you can see a great start, then it starts like i thought on the drive down.
So count in spins 11-20 5+0, but that dont have any baring on KTF, but nice to see the trot of the non-hit. we're at 4 units, be good if the non-hits come, get 6 so count is 11+1, so non-hits are just infront. before i know it we're back to 3/4 units, on 28th spin theres the 15 non-hits, think the meter said 99.75,but £5 is from the uniques, so i thought shall i drop back to 1 unit, but Keep the Faith is sounding so keep to the trot, 42nd spin out the door.
So always keep the Faith.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 21, 05:29 PM 2016
Daily profit
Date        win lose   total
23.12.15 56
24.12.15 93
27.12.15 57
28.12.15 52
29.12.15 45
30.12.15 50
31.12.15 50
02.01.16 56
03.01.16 65
04.01.16 57
05.01.16 45
06.01.16 51
07.01.16 50
08.01.16 59
09.01.16 45
10.01.16 47
11.01.16 49
12.01.16 51
13.01.16 50
14.01.16 59
15.01.16 45
16.01.16 45
17.01.16 50
18.01.16 45
19.01.16 38
20.01.16 43
21.01.16 45 1398
22.01.16 655
23.01.16 52
24.01.16 50
25.01.16 38
26.01.16 50
27.01.16 38
28.01.16 57
29.01.16 48
30.01.16 54
31.01.16 56
01.02.16 46
02.02.16 51
03.02.16 45
04.02.16 54
05.02.16 46
06.02.16 39
07.02.16 45
08.02.16 42
09.02.16 44
10.02.16 53
11.02.16 34
12.02.16 38
13.02.16 47
14.02.16 45
15.02.16 50
16.02.16 59
17.02.16 45
18.02.16 56
19.02.16 29
20.02.16 59
21.02.16 45
22.02.16 66
23.02.16 38
24.02.16 51
25.02.16 53
26.02.16 57
27.02.16 50
28.02.16 53
29.02.16 44
01.03.16 52
02.03.16 53
03.03.16 63
04.03.16 45
05.03.16 50
06.03.16 51
07.03.16 41
08.03.16 49
09.03.16 45
10.03.16 47
11.03.16 53
12.03.16 79
13.03.16 66
14.03.16 46
15.03.16 42
16.03.16 43
17.03.16 41
18.03.16 40
19.03.16 50
20.03.16 53
21.03.16 41







4275 655 3620
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 22, 07:33 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 22.3.16  KTF +42
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 23, 06:27 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 23.3.16  KTF +50  #3
jackpotjoy 23.3.16
1 18
2 31
3 20
4 19
5 17
6 17
7 27
8 7
9 34
10 0
11 28
12 21
13 13
14 36
15 3
16 14
17 22
18 6
19 0
20 18
21 30
22 31
23 6
24 25
25 10
26 6
27 4
28 14
29 30
30 25
31 7
32 26
33 21
34 17
35 33
36 9
37 8
38 21
39 25
40 11
41 29
42 32
43 31
44 23
45 13
46 9
47 14
48 23
49 2
50 17
51 5
52 13
53 27
54 1
55 33
56 10
57 5
58 33
59 11
60 23

61 9
62 31
63 29
64 18
65 5
66 11
67 30


Ah Zumma
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 23, 08:50 AM 2016
@NOTTO. ..

I looked for airball on jackpot joy but couldn't find it. Only 2 rng roulette tables. (Normal and high stakes).

Did I miss something?   :embarrassed:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 23, 09:06 AM 2016
Hi Den
Never been on the site i only record the game that gets aired on itv after midnight.
Is this what you got when you went too the site
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 23, 09:26 AM 2016
Uhm than I got the wrong site.
Can you provide a link pls ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 23, 09:47 AM 2016
Den its not Jackpot joy, only made the early topic as it won, joy of winning.
I googled jackpot247.com
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 23, 10:19 AM 2016
Thx  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 24, 07:31 AM 2016
Jackpot247 .com 24.3.16  KTF +47
Nearly 3hrs of recording, enough to start a second game. The second game +42 or if you must go for another spin +55
jackpotjoy 24.3.16
1 26
2 8
3 34
4 36
5 15
6 4
7 34
8 9
9 16
10 25
11 12
12 10
13 28
14 28
15 30
16 15
17 8
18 20
19 15
20 5
21 11
22 8
23 7
24 5
25 18
26 13
27 27
28 33
29 12
30 26
31 32
32 18
33 8
34 21
35 18
36 31
37 3
38 23
39 1
40 30
41 22
42 23
43 31
44 13
45 36
46 3
47 12
48 3
49 23
50 11
51 28
52 3
53 25
54 31
55 26
56 19
57 2
58 20
59 2
60 21

61 20
62 33
63 5
64 30
65 13
66 22
67 18
68 31
69 32
70 14
71 9
72 7
73 36
74 4
75 16
76 34
77 6
78 9
79 19
80 26
81 12
82 14
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 24, 07:36 AM 2016
Awesome notto

For thos playing KTF successfully what is your stop loss and win goal

I will start soon

With

200 stop loss
40 win goal
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 24, 09:18 AM 2016
Heres the sheet RG
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Mar 24, 09:43 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 24, 07:36 AM 2016
Awesome notto

For thos playing KTF successfully what is your stop loss and win goal

I will start soon

With

200 stop loss
40 win goal
My stop loss and win goal are:
150 stop loss
30 win goal (3 wins)
I usually stop when I got 3 repeaters after each other -> around 150. It is easy to recover the next times..

If I win 30 I stop and then I follow the count to start betting repeaters..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 24, 09:54 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Mar 24, 09:43 AM 2016
My stop loss and win goal are:
150 stop loss
30 win goal (3 wins)
I usually stop when I got 3 repeaters after each other -> around 150. It is easy to recover the next times..

If I win 30 I stop and then I follow the count to start betting repeaters..

Sounds good to me. The 150 should recover easy

How many sessions a day of ktf. One? As in you win your 30 and thats it?

Human instinct. U lose 150 stop loss and u want to win it back immediatrly.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: goldrosen on Mar 24, 03:13 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Feb 25, 08:54 AM 2016

Now to the plain old KTF betters, you would be nervous on this game,but we need to have  60 spins, these #'s are -3 at spin 40, we usually see at spin 60, 30 non-hit have come, so in the next 20 spins its a 50/50 trot,just like in reply 311, if we can have the 20 spins it could be bank roll is back to where we started or even plus.
I attach 3/1/16 sheet its not far of the same trot

So this means that even when we are in negative $ at 40 spin but there is still high probability that we can be in profit at spin 60 if we strictly follow KTF rules? Then with 1000 BR is very difficult to lose it all right? Thanks!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 24, 05:32 PM 2016
Hi  goldrosen
Out of 90 games using airball on jackpot247.com its lost one game. I play on RNG in uk and stick to the +1/-1 like sh@t to a blanket and it dont let me down. I was late tonight but had the usual 2 games Ladbrokes and corals just over the hour 28.25 using .25p chips,have to use .25p as max bet is only £100
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 25, 06:45 AM 2016
Jackpot 247.com 25.03.16 KTF +75 #10
goldrosen from yesterday
So this means that even when we are in negative $ at 40 spin but there is still high probability that we can be in profit at spin 60 if we strictly follow KTF rules? Then with 1000 BR is very difficult to lose it all right? Thanks!

Keep The Faith    minus 2 non-hit at spin 40 Trot/count is average, but look at the 60 spins where again average for 60 spins was  saying get 30.5 non-hit, so like you say above 9 non-hit came in 20 spins.

goldrosen, good luck and KTF.
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 13 36
2 33 35
3 5 34
4 6 33
5 13 r
6 18 32
7 25 31
8 17 30
9 11 29 stake
10 22 28 non-hit return
11 7 27 1 28 36 8
12 5 r 1 27 0 -19
13 0 26 2 54 72 -1
14 30 25 1 26 36 9
15 14 24 1 25 36 20
16 0 r 1 24 0 -4
17 34 23 2 48 72 20
18 6 r 1 23 0 -3
19 7 r 2 46 0 -49
20 33 r 3 69 0 -118
21 32 22 4 92 144 -66
22 35 21 3 66 108 -24
23 2 20 2 42 72 6
24 16 19 1 20 36 22
25 22 r 1 19 0 3
26 22 r 2 38 0 -35
27 6 r 3 57 0 -92
28 5 r 4 76 0 -168
29 36 18 5 95 180 -83
30 6 r 4 72 0 -155
31 8 17 5 90 180 -65
32 33 r 4 68 0 -133
33 31 16 5 85 180 -38
34 30 r 4 64 0 -102
35 25 r 5 80 0 -182
36 14 r 6 96 0 -278
37 18 r 7 112 0 -390
38 6 r 8 128 0 -518
39 1 15 9 144 324 -338
40 35 r 8 120 0 -458
41 6 r 9 135 0 -593
42 9 14 10 150 360 -383
43 30 r 9 126 0 -509
44 22 r 10 140 0 -649
45 29 13 11 154 369 -434
46 12 12 10 130 360 -204
47 21 11 9 108 324 12
48 22 r 8 88 0 -76
49 14 r 9 99 0 -175
50 10 10 10 110 360 75
51 7 r
52 31 r
53 10 r
54 31 r
55 31 r
56 26 9
57 24 8
58 28 7
59 19 6
60 5 r

Those who have watched the KTF topic have worked out their own personal stop loss/win points, so in this game there is plenty of exit points with a win or personal stop loss.
Nottophammer plays this with real money and on RNG so if i can handle RNG whats your problem.
Those who have not read GUT should because KTF was refined with Winkels info.
Theres another member who keeps telling you read GUT, practice, practice.
From KTF, some have found how to catch repeats, who knows a new member might refine the methods and win even more easily.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 25, 06:46 AM 2016
todays #'s
jackpotjoy 25.3.16
1 13
2 33
3 5
4 6
5 13
6 18
7 25
8 17
9 11
10 22
11 7
12 5
13 0
14 30
15 14
16 0
17 34
18 6
19 7
20 33
21 32
22 35
23 2
24 16
25 22
26 22
27 6
28 5
29 36
30 6
31 8
32 33
33 31
34 30
35 25
36 14
37 18
38 6
39 1
40 35
41 6
42 9
43 30
44 22
45 29
46 12
47 21
48 22
49 14
50 10
51 7
52 31
53 10
54 31
55 31
56 26
57 24
58 28
59 19
60 5

61 25
62 7
63 20
64 11
65 35
66 27
67 25
68 1
69 28
70 26
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: goldrosen on Mar 25, 01:30 PM 2016
Thanks Nottophammer!

Based on ur avg record, do u know what was the max consecutive unhit hit? It can be frm 1 to 10, 11 to 60 or the whole session..thanks!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Mar 25, 11:40 PM 2016
I finally got this bot to work.  I have a bankroll of 1k going to 10k. Its a 15 minute video sessions over the last 10 days. which means 240 hours of playing non stop  broken into 15 minutes session to keep capture file down.

Anyone want to sit down and prove me that, this is a losing system, even with 30 number bets?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: sniper on Mar 25, 11:55 PM 2016
Hello Azim

Congratulation on your winning.

Thanks for further proving that KTF is a winning system.

If you don't mind, could you please post the video sessions.

Regards and best wishes.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 26, 12:03 AM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Mar 25, 11:40 PM 2016
I finally got this bot to work.  I have a bankroll of 1k going to 10k. Its a 15 minute video sessions over the last 10 days. which means 240 hours of playing non stop  broken into 15 minutes session to keep capture file down.

Anyone want to sit down and prove me that, this is a losing system, even with 30 number bets?

Good job azim

Great profits

Even with great profits, winnings, and proof. Moderators will still come and say it fails.

A point when that is a joke

Good on you man

The problem with current management is they come and say it fails without even reading.  Admit they do not read it.

They come and assume it fails. But they believe theres is good

They arent gods. Dont listen to them

They assume it fails. Do YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN ONE ASSUMES. ?? They make an ass out of you and me

KTF wins.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Mar 26, 12:15 AM 2016
Quote from: sniper on Mar 25, 11:55 PM 2016
Hello Azim

Congratulation on your winning.

Thanks for further proving that KTF is a winning system.

If you don't mind, could you please post the video sessions.

Regards and best wishes.

Can't post 960 files. do the math 24 hours for 15 minute of play is 96 files per day. Which totals to 960 files for 10 days.

On top of it all I will wait till I get my withdrawal through before I post it.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Mar 26, 12:52 AM 2016
Ok, just created this on a play money account... 

I hope it works.

link:s://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=DB42187C82F8D954!346&authkey=!ABu9i8LxLYWy1nM&ithint=video%2cavi

You will have to download the file to your harddrive.  The starting balance was 1K and at the start of this file balance was 700
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: sniper on Mar 26, 01:01 AM 2016
Hello Azim

Thank you very much for your video and prompt reply.

Regards and best wishes.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ayamasnugget on Mar 26, 02:25 AM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Mar 26, 12:52 AM 2016
Ok, just created this on a play money account... 

I hope it works.

link:s://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=DB42187C82F8D954!346&authkey=!ABu9i8LxLYWy1nM&ithint=video%2cavi

You will have to download the file to your harddrive.  The starting balance was 1K and at the start of this file balance was 700

hi Azim,

care to re-upload this video  to your filehoster again? The link seems to be broken at my end.



Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Mar 26, 02:54 AM 2016
There really wasn't much to the bot. The file I posted had 700 as a starting balance, the balance went to about 1200 i think, and it dropped down again to 800 or so.

The point being made was I have been able turn 1K to 10K. Looking for people who claim that Notto is looking for attention.

Who in real world would make 500 units and give it back.  Oh  wait I know, people who don't read and understand the full thread, and claim to know it all.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 26, 06:36 AM 2016
jackpot247.com 26.03.16 KTF +50 #31, 13 didnt come next.
Short recording only 49 spins.
20 spins KTF users are gone with +50, sheet tells us those waiting to complete a street still waiting,
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 27, 12:23 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 26, 06:36 AM 2016
...............20 spins KTF users are gone with +50, sheet tells us those waiting to complete a street still waiting,

And the repeaters left at spin 30 with $123 and wished the bettors STILL waiting to complete a street the best of luck :wink:

Thanks for the numbers.
I use em all.
Still believe in Practice, Practice Practice to hone count strategies.

I keep meaning to ask --- How often do you post the Average sheet?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 27, 03:12 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 27.3.16  KTF +43 #35
jackpotjoy 27.3.16
1 7
2 21
3 13
4 22
5 8
6 17
7 24
8 30
9 26
10 4
11 20
12 1
13 3
14 17
15 15
16 35
17 5
18 9
19 5
20 15
21 10
22 11
23 12
24 12
25 3
26 34
27 15
28 26
29 1
30 7
31 32
32 24
33 9
34 28
35 10
36 2
37 10
38 25
39 35
40 32
41 21
42 13
43 22
44 35
45 13
46 6
47 19
48 14
49 27
50 14
51 6
52 2
53 1
54 17
55 21
56 32
57 29
58 0
59 35
60 14

61 26
62 5
63 31
64 14
65 13
66 0
67 32
68 27
69 9
70 0
71 35
72 18
73 0
74 22
75 19
76 26
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 27, 09:42 AM 2016
KTF always wins.

Celtic whats you airball stoploss
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 27, 09:59 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 27, 09:42 AM 2016
KTF always wins.

Celtic whats you airball stoploss

-RG

On KTF my stoploss is $400 and my stopwin is $30-$40 on the American 00 wheel.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 27, 10:00 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 27, 09:59 AM 2016
-RG

On KTF my stoploss is $400 and my stopwin is $30-$40 on the American 00 wheel.

-Celtic

Thanks. $1 chips i assume
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 27, 10:22 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 27, 10:00 AM 2016
Thanks. $1 chips i assume

Yes.
That's the minimum on my airball table.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 27, 10:31 AM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Mar 26, 02:54 AM 2016
.....................
The point being made was I have been able turn 1K to 10K. Looking for people who claim that Notto is looking for attention.

Who in real world would make 500 units and give it back.  Oh  wait I know, people who don't read and understand the full thread, and claim to know it all.

-Azim

What are you talking about here???

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 27, 10:59 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 27, 10:31 AM 2016
-Azim

What are you talking about here???

-Celtic

he is referring in general to anyone that has something to say about KTF in a negative manner. because it hasnt lost. he coded it and went from 1k to 10k
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: goldrosen on Mar 27, 02:11 PM 2016
Quote from: ramonnetje on Mar 17, 12:27 PM 2016

I am also interested whether there is a difference for 7/10, 8/10, 9/10 and 10/10. Furthermore I am interested how the winnings are distributed over box 1 (11-20), 2(21-30), 3(31-40). Would you be capable of looking into that? I think that would provide us with some sort of proof right, and moreover first step towards creating some rules. I think for example if we could say that when 9/10 and you have 2/3 hits on 11-15 you should continue betting because the odds are in your favor by x%. What do you think? In the end we cannot predict something that is randomized, however you can try to benefit from certain trends and progression of numbers. Atleast that is what I think

Hi guys, any thoughts or test on this please? Thanks!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 29, 07:28 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 28.3.16  KTF +47 #36
jackpotjoy 28.3.16
1 31
2 24
3 19
4 15
5 35
6 30
7 35
8 30
9 28
10 34
11 25
12 31
13 1
14 32
15 29
16 15
17 21
18 23
19 29
20 18
21 30
22 11
23 36
24 4
25 19
26 30
27 22
28 0
29 20
30 14
31 10
32 32
33 2
34 36
35 29
36 25
37 36
38 15
39 6
40 8
41 19
42 18
43 19
44 12
45 32
46 29
47 17
48 20
49 35
50 36
51 16
52 36
53 20
54 4
55 5
56 26
57 6
58 0
59 3
60 27

61 29
62 29
63 5
64 14
65 31
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 29, 07:36 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com  29.3.16  KTF +48 #20
jackpotjoy 29.3.16
1 17
2 29
3 4
4 4
5 28
6 33
7 19
8 11
9 17
10 10
11 11
12 31
13 1
14 35
15 32
16 15
17 24
18 20
19 17
20 35
21 36
22 9
23 6
24 8
25 26
26 11
27 16
28 2
29 31
30 6
31 33
32 23
33 19
34 24
35 8
36 25
37 30
38 1
39 27
40 22
41 16
42 8
43 28
44 19
45 20
46 36
47 9
48 26
49 6
50 28
51 22
52 15
53 10
54 17
55 16
56 16
57 17
58 31
59 3
60 15

61 28
62 16
63 29
64 10
65 35
66 33
67 20
68 32
69 6
70 30
71 16
72 34
73 5
74 3
75 6
76 3
77 21
78 14
79 3
80 15
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: sniper on Mar 29, 09:02 AM 2016
Hello Nottophammer

Thanks for your system.

I started playing KTF yesterday and won 166 units in 4 sessions lasted less than 2 hours.

Target for each session was 40 units. I use +1/-1 progression and maximum bet so far was 3 units.

During my testing, I had one bust above 600 units after winning more than 60 sessions of 40 units each.

From your record, what was the average number of spin to get the 4th win?

Regards and best wishes.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 29, 06:00 PM 2016
in the back of my mind i think: wait for 12 uniques, then bet the 24 non hits. on a loss use 1 3 9 progression

but I KNOW 3 repeaters will happen and it will fail

but the question is: how often do we see 12 uniques then some of those 12 repeat 3 times immediately? are we in profit on the loss?

win on 1 3 or 9 - 12 units
loss - big

but will the wins overcome?

a repeat number in 12 spins is taken out, we wait X number of spins for 12 unique of no repeat
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 29, 06:04 PM 2016
Quote from: sniper on Mar 29, 09:02 AM 2016
Hello Nottophammer

Thanks for your system.

I started playing KTF yesterday and won 166 units in 4 sessions lasted less than 2 hours.

Target for each session was 40 units. I use +1/-1 progression and maximum bet so far was 3 units.

During my testing, I had one bust above 600 units after winning more than 60 sessions of 40 units each.

From your record, what was the average number of spin to get the 4th win?

Regards and best wishes.

awesome results

good work

what is you stoploss in your tests? seems to work

i have not played real money yet but 200 to 400 stop loss with 40 win goal seems right

since your stoploss failed only once im curious to hear it
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ignatus on Mar 29, 07:18 PM 2016
Betting 27 numbers with progression is a way to disaster, sooner or later you're going to realize that.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Mar 29, 07:22 PM 2016
Quotei have not played real money yet but 200 to 400 stop loss with 40 win goal seems right

Sorry to cut in, but a quick FYI...

Even when the player has a high edge he should expect variance to be in the neighborhood of 450 units or more.  Testing by hand, for only a few hundred or thousands spins isn't telling you much.
When the payer has a low edge, the variance can exceed 1k units. 

(I suppose I shouldn't ask the following question...but... ) If the method works, why wouldn't you want to play as long as possible to make as much as possible?
Now there actually is a correct answer to this question.  I'm not bashing your system, but I'm trying to teach you something that you guys are missing.  And in the future, if someone poses this question to you, then you will be able to answer it effectively.

-The General

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 29, 07:27 PM 2016
Good idea. Play as much as possible to win as much as possible

Notto and celtic and denzie are 3 that i know of playing ktf everyday....

Sniper im really curious as to what your personal stoploss is since you only had one bust
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Mar 29, 07:28 PM 2016
The question:  What is the purpose of a stoploss?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 29, 07:29 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 29, 06:00 PM 2016
in the back of my mind i think: wait for 12 uniques, then bet the 24 non hits. on a loss use 1 3 9 progression

but I KNOW 3 repeaters will happen and it will fail

but the question is: how often do we see 12 uniques then some of those 12 repeat 3 times immediately? are we in profit on the loss?

win on 1 3 or 9 - 12 units
loss - big

but will the wins overcome?

a repeat number in 12 spins is taken out, we wait X number of spins for 12 unique of no repeat
RG go to the 12 unique in x spins that will get you the answer
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 29, 07:30 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 29, 07:29 PM 2016
RG go to the 12 unique in x spins that will get you the answer

Yes notto

Simple. Wait 12 unique numbers then bet the 24 remaining for a 40 win goal
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Mar 29, 07:32 PM 2016
Question:  Why do you have a win goal?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: sniper on Mar 29, 07:33 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 29, 06:04 PM 2016
awesome results

good work

what is you stoploss in your tests? seems to work

i have not played real money yet but 200 to 400 stop loss with 40 win goal seems right

since your stoploss failed only once im curious to hear it

Hello RouletteGhost,

For my testing, I did not use any stop loss.

I stopped when target 40 achieved, else played till spin 37.

I was lucky during testing. I strongly believe a stop loss of 400 unit should be practical.

I am now testing with various progression and entry/exit point.

Regard and best wishes.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 29, 07:34 PM 2016
Quote from: sniper on Mar 29, 07:33 PM 2016
Hello RouletteGhost,

For my testing, I did not use any stop loss.

I stopped when target 40 achieved, else played till spin 37.

I was lucky during testing. I strongly believe a stop loss of 400 unit should be practical.

I am now testing with various progression and entry/exit point.

Regard and best wishes.

400 sounds good. Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ignatus on Mar 29, 08:34 PM 2016
Quote from: The General on Mar 29, 07:32 PM 2016
Question:  Why do you have a win goal?

Ken has explain his betting method pretty well, go for one hit, with big chips then quit.

KTF is played the in a similar way? Quit after a small wingoal, difference is this progression thing with 27 numbers, that is a way to disaster....as i said
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tomla021 on Mar 29, 08:56 PM 2016
ignatus you should test it 10 times?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 29, 09:10 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 29, 07:27 PM 2016
Good idea. Play as much as possible to win as much as possible

Notto and celtic and denzie are 3 that i know of playing ktf everyday....

Sniper im really curious as to what your personal stoploss is since you only had one bust

-RG

If you read the thread you will see that I switched to betting repeats exclusively some time ago.
KTF worked for me but was too slow in making profit.

-Celtic

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 29, 10:59 PM 2016
Quote from: Tomla021 on Mar 29, 08:56 PM 2016
ignatus you should test it 10 times?

Ah good old jealousy  :xd:
Over 500 sessions and the profits growing daily. Winning minimum 1 br a day.
Btw I'm playing repeaters too.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Mar 30, 03:02 AM 2016
Den, are you playing Celtic's way?

Or you have Denzie's way?
Is it playing till first hit?

Could you update us on your bet selection, when you find time?

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 30, 08:00 AM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Mar 30, 03:02 AM 2016
Den, are you playing Celtic's way?

Or you have Denzie's way?
Is it playing till first hit?

Could you update us on your bet selection, when you find time?

Thanks

If I play live dealer or airball then I play as Celticknits does.

If I play rng then I go for 1 hit. Track bit further and if no virtual hit in 2-3 spins I go for one more. 1 hit is enough though as rng is really fast.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 30, 08:07 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 30.3.16  KTF +79  #23
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 11 36
2 16 35
3 0 34
4 15 33
5 2 32
6 33 31
7 0 r
8 20 30
9 2 r stake
10 19 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 15 r 1 29 0 -29
12 12 28 2 58 72 -15
13 21 27 1 28 36 -7
14 31 26 1 27 36 2
15 32 25 1 26 36 12
16 14 24 1 25 36 23
17 0 r 1 24 0 -1
18 12 r 2 48 0 -49
19 18 23 3 72 108 -13
20 19 r 2 46 0 -59
21 30 22 3 69 108 -20
22 10 21 2 44 72 8
23 31 r 1 21 0 -13
24 33 r 2 42 0 -55
25 3 20 3 63 108 -10
26 13 19 2 40 72 22
27 14 r 1 19 0 3
28 14 r 2 38 0 -35
29 19 r 3 57 0 -92
30 24 18 4 76 144 -24
31 15 r 3 54 0 -78
32 6 17 4 72 144 -6
33 20 r 3 51 0 -57
34 27 16 4 68 144 19
35 23 15 3 48 108 79
36 23 r
37 13 r
38 21 r
39 8 14
40 23 r
41 8
42 27
43 16
44 12
45 35
46 29
47 19
48 7
49 19
50 11
51 4
52 7
53 1
54 29
55 1
56 28
57 26
58 29
59 32
60 21

61 31
62 27
63 6
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 08:11 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 30, 08:07 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 30.3.16  KTF +79  #23
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 11 36
2 16 35
3 0 34
4 15 33
5 2 32
6 33 31
7 0 r
8 20 30
9 2 r stake
10 19 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 15 r 1 29 0 -29
12 12 28 2 58 72 -15
13 21 27 1 28 36 -7
14 31 26 1 27 36 2
15 32 25 1 26 36 12
16 14 24 1 25 36 23
17 0 r 1 24 0 -1
18 12 r 2 48 0 -49
19 18 23 3 72 108 -13
20 19 r 2 46 0 -59
21 30 22 3 69 108 -20
22 10 21 2 44 72 8
23 31 r 1 21 0 -13
24 33 r 2 42 0 -55
25 3 20 3 63 108 -10
26 13 19 2 40 72 22
27 14 r 1 19 0 3
28 14 r 2 38 0 -35
29 19 r 3 57 0 -92
30 24 18 4 76 144 -24
31 15 r 3 54 0 -78
32 6 17 4 72 144 -6
33 20 r 3 51 0 -57
34 27 16 4 68 144 19
35 23 15 3 48 108 79
36 23 r
37 13 r
38 21 r
39 8 14
40 23 r
41 8
42 27
43 16
44 12
45 35
46 29
47 19
48 7
49 19
50 11
51 4
52 7
53 1
54 29
55 1
56 28
57 26
58 29
59 32
60 21

61 31
62 27
63 6


Nice. Highest bet being 4 units

Did you see sniper reults. 60 sessions. 1 bust.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Mar 30, 08:18 AM 2016
No no no , we all just lucky at the same time. The system not work   :wink:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 30, 08:39 AM 2016
General or is it herb or caleb, well who ever you are, perhaps Turner knows.

So what can the general learn from simple average.
Some who read agree its fair to say we get on average in spins11-40, 15 non-hit. If we divide the 15 by 3 its 5, so 5 non-hit on average appear in spins 11-20, same in 21-30 and 31-40.
But we know from keeping records 11-20 averages 7 non-hit, thus +2 on the 5 allocated.

Now from GUT we need to understand the trot. What is the trot? its how 0x's and 1x's then the >1x's reveal themselves.

Its not written in stone, so you have to study/practice.

From your record keeping you can see upto the 19th non-hit, there avg to come in is 2 spins, remember maths does not lie.

Now general if you look at todays sheet which is supplied you will see from spin 11 to spin 40 we get the BORING 15 in 30 spins. This was a 50/50 trot,yesterday 11-30 was fast so 31-40 it started to slow,as you can see it had to balance out thus repeats.

Signing off
Nottophammer
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 08:42 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 30, 08:39 AM 2016
General or is it herb or caleb, well who ever you are, perhaps Turner knows.

I think we can turn over a new leaf if we ignore what we wish to ignore and just continue on

No point talking to him about roulette unless it has to do with VB

This is a good thread lets not drag him into it
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Foolwise on Mar 30, 09:32 AM 2016
Quote from: The General on Mar 29, 07:28 PM 2016
The question:  What is the purpose of a stoploss?
Salute The General. Its funny why one would confuse you and me. The stoploss is to reset the progression. The wingoal is to limit the number of times non-hits hit as if I go beyond that I might loose the count and get into the average zone which will find more repeats and make you loose.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: blueman on Mar 30, 11:11 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Mar 30, 08:18 AM 2016
No no no , we all just lucky at the same time. The system not work   :wink:
I do not care what general and others think. KTF is a good system. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 11:14 AM 2016
Quote from: blueman on Mar 30, 11:11 AM 2016
I do not care what general and others think. KTF is a good system. :thumbsup:

How can anyone refute it isnt a good system. That i do not know

+1
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Mar 30, 11:33 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 08:11 AM 2016
Nice. Highest bet being 4 units

Did you see sniper reults. 60 sessions. 1 bust.


-RG

That 4 is the progression level not the stake.
At spin #30 the stake is $72.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 30, 11:42 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Mar 30, 11:33 AM 2016

-RG

That 4 is the progression level not the stake.
At spin #30 the stake is $72.

-Celtic

I know that

With +1 -1 the highest chip level was 4

Not too shabby
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 31, 05:09 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 31.3.16 KTF +59 #1
jackpotjoy 31.3.16
1 16
2 27
3 10
4 2
5 9
6 14
7 17
8 29
9 8
10 36
11 11
12 2
13 3
14 24
15 35
16 16
17 24
18 17
19 35
20 35
21 0
22 6
23 3
24 12
25 4
26 16
27 32
28 31
29 30
30 18
31 31
32 0
33 2
34 7
35 1
36 26
37 25
38 1
39 14
40 16
41 24
42 26
43 7
44 17
45 27
46 19
47 8
48 33
49 16
50 7
51 8
52 36
53 6
54 25
55 10
56 9
57 10
58 16
59 27
60 2

61 3
62 21
63 35
64 20
65 12
66 30
67 35
68 13
69 32
70 23
71 34
72 29
73 5
74 26
75 7
76 16
77 4
78 17
79 33
80 24
81 12
82 5
83 24
84 6
85 0


spins 1-10  10/10
       11-20        4-1
       21-30     12+2
       31-40     16+1
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: 3Nine on Mar 31, 07:51 AM 2016
Does anyone have significant profit/loss tracking for this that would show the average win/loss per session and/or per spin?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Kattila on Mar 31, 06:34 PM 2016
An old brother of the KTF 

link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=787.msg7238#msg7238
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 31, 06:55 PM 2016
AWESOME KATTILA

great minds think alike

Kudos to you and nottophammer
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: goldrosen on Mar 31, 09:54 PM 2016
Quote from: Kattila on Mar 31, 06:34 PM 2016
An old brother of the KTF 

link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=787.msg7238#msg7238

What about flatbet for KTF, will it work? =)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Mar 31, 09:56 PM 2016
If a method won't work when flat betting then it will fail over time with a progression as well.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Apr 01, 02:40 AM 2016
Quote from: Kattila on Mar 31, 06:34 PM 2016
An old brother of the KTF 

Thanks Kattila, hopefully it won't disappear as happened to some other threads...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 01, 06:21 AM 2016
Did anybody tape todays #'s, my sky box is playing up, have to do a rebuild
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 01, 06:24 AM 2016
Quote from: goldrosen on Mar 31, 09:54 PM 2016
What about flatbet for KTF, will it work? =)

I kept a sheet on flat bets, it does manage to stay infront but by only a small profit. Not enough to give up he day job.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 01, 06:48 AM 2016
18 is how many non-hit in 30 spins, 3.40 is it made a minus, below 19 non-hit 12.4 made plus


18 3.4
19 12.4

16 16.4
14 42.6
18 4.8


15 16.4
15 25.8
16 3.4
17 2.6
16 13.4
18 27.8
18 1.6
14 31.4
16 4.2
15 18.4
23 56.6
13 35.2
14 26.2
21 54.6
16 12
19 21
16 2.6
17 9.2
17 10
19 19.6
17 1.6
18 11.6
18 8.6
19 16.4
16 3.6
19 25.8
17 2.8
16 8.8
20 29.6
18 14.2
16 3.2
15 19.4
17 2.8
18 12.8
16 3.8
18 19.2
16 9
17 9.8
16 20.6
16 20.4
19 21
14 28
17 5.8
18 7.2
19 22
15 12
16 12.6
17 1.4
13 41.4
16 6.6
16 1.8
18 11.6
18 7.2
12 7
18 27
18 8.2
18 8.4
16 13.2
18 9.8

16 3.6
14 39.2
17 0.2
16 0.8
13 11.4
15 6.8
16 11.2
21 50
19 22
18 29.2
18 11
19 25.4
17 7.2
19 21.4
15 7.8
16 8.8
14 25
15 22
17 2.8
17 1.6
15 10.6
15 11
17 0.8
13 44.4
19 18.8
19 27
17 8.2
14 22.6
15 6
16 4
17 16.6
18 17.8
17 1
14 20
19 2.6
18 15
18 6.6
14 0.6
17 18.4
16 5
16 7.6
20 42.8
19 20.6
15 3.2
20 13.4
17 10.8
12 44.6
15 17
17 8.6
17 12.6
14 6
14 31.6
15 7.4
15 10.2
18 6.8
19 31.2
15 7.6
16 11
12 24
16 1.2
17 5.8
18 24.2
17 12.4
14 27.4
17 17
15 3.4
15 21.2
18 15
15 4.6
19 41.8
15 7.4
20 38.4
18 16.8
15 4.2
17 8.4
17 0.2
16 10.4
15 19
18 20.8
22 48
16 5
22 64.6
18 9.2
15 11.4
17 15
15 8.4
13 36.2
15 12.8
12 8.4
18 22.2
16 3.2
15 14
16 5.2
16 12.6
17 20
17 10.2
19 45.6
17 28.4
15 6
17 16.2
13 15.8
16 7
18 8.2
15 18.4
15 12.6
16 8.2
15 6
14 2.2
19 36.4
20 37.4
17 7.8
18 19.2
14 20.8
17 1.6
15 10.6
18 32.8
14 15.4
18 12.8
15 24.2
18 12.4
17 7.8
15 16
15 12.6
18 13.8
12 52.2
16 8
17 6.2
11 56.6
18 15.8
15 1.4
18 23.6
18 20.2
15 19
17 15.2
18 2.2
16 14.2
15 1.2
18 16.8
16 1
19 24.2
17 6.6
17 5.4
17 5.8
14 26
18 1.2
18 20.6
16 8.8
18 36
12 24.2
13 34.4
12 20
16 2.6
19 23.6
15 14.4
16 3
17 4.4
15 11.6
18 22.2
17 4.6
16 12.2
17 11.6
16 12.6
13 38.2
15 23.2
14 22.4
17 10
16 0.4
15 7.6
18 24.4
13 35.2
15 13
17 5
17 9.4
15 24.4
16 2.6
15 11
10 7.6
11 0.8
20 24.4
16 12
17 2.8
19 24.8
11 54.4
16 0.4
15 14.6
18 26.4
17 10.6
16 13.2
16 2.2
12 0 0
16 3.8
8 1.8
14 2.6
16 9.6
13 42
16 8
15 16.2
15 5.4
17 3.6

12 53
13 28
17 13.4
16 0.6
15 6.8
18 21.6
16 7.2
16 1.2
16 8
17 8
14 18.4
20 36.4
20 34.6
17 18.2
14 36.4
15 14.6
18 16.8
17 13.2
16 2
14 24
14 27.6
15 13.4
19 32.4
15 10.4
16 4.6
14 20.4
17 33
15 4.8
18 15.4
16 3.2
14 20.8
20 38.2
18 27.6
15 7.8
15 3
15 14.2
15 4.8
13 33.8
15 7.2
17 18.2
18 24.8
16 4.4
16 4.6
16 16.6
11 51.6
16 6.6
18 21.2
15 10.4
15 11.4
14 24
17 18.8
15 23
13 12.8
16 2.6
15 6
15 8.4
14 16
18 13.2
14 7.2
14 23.8
14 8.4
18 30
15 15.8
17 10.6
16 3.2
16 19
17 11
15 9.6
15 5.6
15 5.6
17 1.6
16 5.8
16 9.2
13 24.6
17 11.4
15 12.8
16 3
15 16.8
12 38.8
16 1.2
17 12.8
15 10.6
14 17.2
14 14.2
13 19.2
16 15
14 17.6
16 15.6
15 0.8
18 21.4
11 48.2
17 14.2
14 26.4
18 24
14 20.8
13 30.4
16 6.2
13 20
18 31.4
15 10.4
18 17.6
17 13.6
17 5
14 19.8
15 11
17 11.4
16 11.4
18 18.2
16 8
17 13.6
17 23.6
15 2.6
16 1.6
12 40.6
14 27
13 19.2
13 28.8
13 30.8
16 4.2
14 3.4
16 2.6
18 30.4
18 27
17 7.6
17 20.2
17 27.4
17 31.8
14 27.4
12 25.2
16 6.6
16 11.2
20 35.2
17 13.8
15 9.2
18 24.8
16 4.4
18 27.4
16 7.2
16 2.2
13 20.6
17 18.6
17 1.6
15 11
19 28
17 5.6
18 28.4
17 18.8
16 2.4
15 12.2
16 2.6
18 19.8
15 13
18 25.8
15 0.2
17 19
19 43.6
16 16.8
16 7
11 36
13 29.6
17 14.4
18 16.8
15 9
18 27.4
14 20.8
17 20.8
15 19.6
15 9.4
13 21
15 8.4
13 13
18 22.8
16 1.2
14 23.6
15 8.4
14 14.4
16 8.6
15 11
14 24.6
14 6.4
13 17.4
15 6
17 16.4
17 18
16 0.6
16 5.8
14 13.4
17 15.8
17 15.8
15 3.6
15 9.4
16 11.4
15 7.2
15 4.8
15 9.4
14 11.6
17 21.2
17 4
15 5.2
12 35.6
12 18.4
16 6
12 26
22 57.8
22 69
15 5
15 3.2
14 14.8
13 26.4
19 33.2
14 9.4
16 11.6
21 42.6
20 43.6
15 5
18 33.4
13 27.6
15 15
13 21.2
18 21.8
16 6.6
20 35.2
16 0.8
15 11
13 27.6
16 3.2
15 5.8
17 18.8
15 3.6
15 4.8
14 18.6
19 13.2
18 21.6
16 0.2
18 25.6
16 2
18 21.6
16 8.4
12 46.6
16 5.4
16 9.2
15 14.8
17 15.2
15 7
16 22.2
18 32
16 8.8
19 37.2
16 4.8
16 4.8
17 8
15 18.6
15 19
16 2.6
15 12
13 9
12 22.6
17 0.8
16 16.6
15 11.8
16 30.2
15 0.4
17 10.8
18 25.8
14 5.8
12 41.2
16 5
16 0.6
17 22
17 25.8
15 10
15 13.6
15 7.6
21 42
14 21
13 29.2
18 24
16 5.2
18 14.8
17 5
14 20.8
20 41
17 6.8
20 44
17 9.6
18 22.2
15 4.4
15 9
15 3.2
15 15
15 2.6
16 10.6
14 18.6
18 17.8
14 22.8
16 0.6
17 7.8
17 7.6
17 18.2
16 0.6
17 11.6
13 2.8
16 4.2
16 2.8
18 19.8
17 9.6
13 23.2
18 23.6
14 5.4
12 28.4
15 5.6
13 21
17 8.2
17 4.4
17 3.6
17 8
15 1.2
17 8.8
17 16.4
15 10.4
19 46
17 13.4
18 29.8
17 15
16 8.6
14 18.4
14 1.6
16 2
13 18.6
17 10.2
17 25.4
16 1
17 8.6
13 0.6
13 29
14 19
14 16
18 23
16 15.2
15 6.2
14 13.6
15 1.4
15 7.6
15 12.4
18 17.8
13 22
16 6.4
14 10.8
14 15.2
16 5.8
14 25.2
16 1.8
16 0 0
17 16
15 11.6
16 3.6
17 14.8
15 10.6
15 6.4
15 5.6
18 29.2
13 6
13 20
14 12
15 0.8
16 5.4
13 9.8


13
15 20.8
14 4.4
16 13.4
13 6.8
16 16.4
17 19.8
13 12.2
16 36.8
12 32.4
18 11.4
14 18.6
17 42.4
14 12
17 42
11 20
13 34.2
18 13.2
16 10
13 1.4
16 27.8
17 8.8
16 43
19 6
16 16.8
17 23
16 6.2
15 11.8
17 62.4
9 6.2
15 9.8
14 14
17 16.8
12 3.8
15 8.2
15 8
14 23.8
17 18.2
14 25
13 35.8
18 25
17 0.4
14 0
16 31
13 25.4
17 15.8
14 1
16 12.6
14 4.8
15 23.4
13 0.6
15 1.4
15 10.8
16 12.8
14 8
14 3.6
17 17.4
13 3.8
14 32
12 0.2
15 0.4
15 8.2
17 7.4
13 16.6
14 11.8
17 14.2
16 4
15 12.4
14 24.2
13 19.2
17 3.6
16 2
15 11.6
17 2
16 15.4
15 13.4
15 35.4
18 13.4
16 2.2
15 4
14 20
12 25.2
13 29.2
12 3
16 23
17 16.4
16 16.6
14 4.6
14 8.6
16 31
13 14.4
17 7.6
15 12
12 6
17 15.6
16 9.6
16 27.2
18 13.2
16 11.2
17 4.8
16 40
19 7.6
16 7.2
14 6.6
16 25.6
17 20.8
18 5.8
14 7.4
14 9.2
16 11.2
14 5.2
14 5.6
16 36.6
19 12.6
16 19.6
16 18.2
12 7.8
15 28.8
13 7.4
16 26
13 28.8
18 21
13 12.8
17 1.4
16 34.6
12 2.8
16 52
21 14.4
13 14.4
17 3.6
14 51
19 32.8
18 7.6
15 1.4
16 45.8
20 27.8
18 42.4
19 22.6
18 27.6
19 22.6
13 25.2
17 1.6
15 9.6
17 31.8
17 24.4
19 4.4
13 13.2
17 23.6
12 16.6
17 3.4
14 10.8
15 7.8
14 9.2
16 10.8
16 33.2
17 22.6
13 12.4
14 4
15 37.4
12 4
13 14.2
16 24.8
17 13.6
16 26.4
17 37.2
19 23.2
14 11.6
14 22.6
17 3.2
15 15.8
13 28.6
18 5.2
14 1.8
14 10.4
14 26
17 4.2
15 1
15 27.6
18 15.8
16 33.6
19 15.2
16 9
16 5
15 5.6
15 3.8
14 9.2
15 2.4
16 10.6
15 48
20 0 0
16 27.4
18 9.2
13 21.6
13 4.2
14 19
13 0.2
15 15.4
14 37
18 5.4
15 1.2
16 3.8
15 8.8
14 6.8
15 9.4
17 34.8
17 18.2
17 10.6
15 8.4
17 5.8
15 12.8
18 11.6
14 17
17 13
16 8.4
16 20.6
13 0.2
15 10.6
15 3.6
15 22
13 6.8
16 31.8
18 39.2
12 15.2
13 3.6
15 39.2
18 39.8
10 28.8
18 15.8
14 45.2
11 9
16 16.2
16 49.4
11 7
18 11.8
17 36.6
19 2.8
16 11
14 9.2
16 17
10 28.2 0
13 4.4
14 28.4
16 20.2
13 11.8
12 7.8
15 28.2
13 25.8
17 18
17
6078.2 7613.4


minus 6078.2    plus 7613.4
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: praline on Apr 01, 06:55 AM 2016
it`s much more easier to place bets with norcosoft`s tracker and clicker

link:://betselection.cc/norcosoft/gut-tracker-ew-clicker-for-european-wheel/


i use it for both KTF and WTF,  alsoo there is a retract 20 option which is very usefull  for wtf
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Apr 01, 07:00 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 01, 06:21 AM 2016
Did anybody tape todays #'s, my sky box is playing up, have to do a rebuild

Maybe you can find numbers on their web site?
Then you wouldn't have to tape it...

Just suggestion.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 01, 07:12 AM 2016
Thanks for suggestion NY
I've rebuilt the box so hope will tape #'s for 2.4.16
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 01, 07:38 AM 2016
Yesterdays #'s flat bet over the spins 11-40. stop at 26th non-hit. so shows +7.6, but there is still 3 spins*2.2 which would mean a £1 profit
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11
5.4 5.2 5 4.8 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 3.4 3.2 3 2.8 2.6 2.4 2.2
1 2 1 1 6 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 4 1 1 1 3
5.4 10.4 5 4.8 27.6 4.4 8.4 4 7.6 3.6 3.4 3.2 12 2.8 2.6 2.4 107.6

115.2 7.6

If we stop as soon as 15 non-hit have hit,which would be spin36 you can see 15*7.2=108 less the 105.2 stakes, so for .20p units plus 2.80 or for £1 units be +£14
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12
5.4 5.2 5 4.8 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 3.4 3.2 3 2.8 2.6 2.4
1 2 1 1 6 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 4 1 1 0
5.4 10.4 5 4.8 27.6 4.4 8.4 4 7.6 3.6 3.4 3.2 12 2.8 2.6 105.2

108 2.8


Of the 97 games on jackpot247.com these are the non-hit in 30 spins
12 0
13 5
14 13
15 19
16 29
17 18
18 8
19 5
20 0

Of the 97, 18 games did not manage to get 15non-hit, but 79 got 15 non-hit, some before 30 spins would be up.
The earlier the 15 non-hit come would mean more profit ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ati on Apr 01, 05:52 PM 2016
Quote from: The General on Mar 31, 09:56 PM 2016
If a method won't work when flat betting then it will fail over time with a progression as well.
I'm not entirely sure about that. Let's say you win every 3rd bet, that would be a constant loser flat bet, and a constant winner with certain progressions. Using a progression isn't necessarily a bad thing if it suits for the bet selection.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 01, 06:08 PM 2016
Ati, while ideally that would work, in the real world there´s no such thing as a constant LLLW because of variance.
Progressions could kill the HE if there were no table limits though.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 01, 06:09 PM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 01, 06:08 PM 2016
Ati, while ideally that would work, in the real world there´s no such thing as a constant LLLW because of variance.
Progressions could kill the HE if there were no table limits though.

this is why i am a firm believer if we have a progression that stays within the table limits to tackle the variance while at the same time betting against patterns can lead to success

see javinci post in grassroots thread. up 30k doing just that
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 01, 06:17 PM 2016
Guys,

You need to define your rules so that you don't curve fit along the way.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 02, 01:50 AM 2016
Well show taped but only an hour long.  Jackpot247.com 2.4.16  KTF +51 #14
Only 34 spins, but everyone will be happy with their winnings.
Didn't get a 13,31 but we did get a 12,21 does that mean anything?
jackpotjoy 2.4.16
1 10
2 24
3 5
4 28
5 18
6 27
7 22
8 24
9 26
10 23
11 31
12 6
13 20
14 17
15 17
16 15
17 14
18 13
19 32
20 35
21 19
22 3
23 5
24 31
25 0
26 27
27 32
28 18
29 7
30 34
31 30
32 12
33 21
34 23

Oh yeah fast game
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 02, 02:15 AM 2016
For flat bet fans of todays #'s obviously theres 1 spin of 2.2 to deduct  so be +36 for .20p units,if for £1 units + 180
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11
5.6 5.4 5.2 5 4.8 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 3.4 3.2 3 2.8 2.6 2.4 2.2
1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 4 1 1 1 1
5.6 5.4 5.2 5 9.6 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 10.2 12.8 3 2.8 2.6 2.4
84.2
122.4 38.2

If we stop at 15th non-hit  +23.8 as above +119
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11
5.6 5.4 5.2 5 4.8 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 3.4 3.2 3 2.8 2.6 2.4 2.2
1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 4 1 1
5.6 5.4 5.2 5 9.6 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 10.2 12.8 3 2.8 0 0
84.2
108 23.8

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RayManZ on Apr 02, 02:42 AM 2016
I dont really understand your table, but if you're saying the flat betting KTF would win in the long run. Why not bet KTF with really high stakes? So the table limit max. Online it's 500 units on a single number.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 02, 07:29 AM 2016
Quote from: The General on Apr 01, 06:17 PM 2016
Guys,

You need to define your rules so that you don't curve fit along the way.

lol, I had made this same comment (in private). You cant look back at results and then say....I would of bet this here and bet on that number there etc.....and THEN count it as wins.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 02, 07:59 AM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Apr 02, 07:29 AM 2016
lol, I had made this same comment (in private). You cant look back at results and then say....I would of bet this here and bet on that number there etc.....and THEN count it as wins.

Ken
Yes it was the same for me in the beginning.  But it exist a really good description by Celticknits. Maybe that one can be added first in the thread?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: goldrosen on Apr 02, 08:48 AM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Apr 02, 07:29 AM 2016
lol, I had made this same comment (in private). You cant look back at results and then say....I would of bet this here and bet on that number there etc.....and THEN count it as wins.

Ken

That is what I see happening in WTF thread a lot, "I would have played like this n that", never had a losing session, so funny lol, if its real play then I think they will say something like "I should have played like this!" after they have busted..but IMP i think KTF is okay..u can just follow the rules as stated n take only the first winning, then the only one lossing session frm Nottophammer is not counted..then its really no lossing so far lol just sayin

Ps: You will never get the count thingy, u will need to practice practice n practice forever because the WTF rules will be changing forever also haha
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 02, 01:23 PM 2016
Quote from: The General on Apr 01, 06:17 PM 2016
Guys,

You need to define your rules so that you don't curve fit along the way.

-General

This is becoming annoying.
The rules for KTF have been defined many times in this thread, and have not changed, but I guess people do not want to read all of the pages in this thread.

Here are the rules to play KTF one last time:

1 - Minimum BR $400
2 - Take last 10 numbers, or 10 new numbers if you prefer.
3 - Starting at spin #11 bet All of the unhit numbers
4 - Use a +1/-1 Progression
5 - Win stop is $30-40 on an American wheel and $40-$50 on a Euro wheel.
6 - Play until you win the session winstop or deplete your BR

Notto - Let us know if I missed something here.

Thats all there is to it folks.
Oh, and one last thing, forget about the count, averages or anything like that when playing KTF, you do not need to use them.

So, to summarize, just start betting unhit numbers at spin #11 and win your $30-$50 or ride the wave until you reach your profit, deplete your BR, or decide you have had enough.

I believe In almost 100 games Notto has only lost 1 time.
On a Euro wheel that would be about $4,600.00 profit.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 02, 01:27 PM 2016
These rules (revised?) have started on what date? So if I look at that date on the posts, the net wins should read....$0, correct?

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 02, 01:42 PM 2016
Quote from: goldrosen on Apr 02, 08:48 AM 2016
That is what I see happening in WTF thread a lot, "I would have played like this n that", never had a losing session, so funny lol, if its real play then I think they will say something like "I should have played like this!" after they have busted..but IMP i think KTF is okay..u can just follow the rules as stated n take only the first winning, then the only one lossing session frm Nottophammer is not counted..then its really no lossing so far lol just sayin

Ps: You will never get the count thingy, u will need to practice practice n practice forever because the WTF rules will be changing forever also haha

-Goldrosen

First off this is not the WTF thread.
The rules for KTF are fixed and have not changed.

Re.your statement Ps: You will never get the count thingy, u will need to practice practice n practice forever because the WTF rules will be changing forever also haha about the

If you cannot get the count thingy, as you call it, forget about playing WTF.
The rules do not really change in WTF but may appear to if you do not understand how to read the count.
You are 100% correct about practicing practicing  n practicing= in regards to WTF.

A lot of people confuse KTF and WTF but as has been stated many times in this thread they are related but are two completely different animals.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 02, 01:44 PM 2016
I merely suspected that your rules were too lose.



I only made the suggestion because too many people curve fit their testing without even realizing it.  A good example is that fruitcake XXVV that rambles and bloviates... on an on... while curve fitting that absurd WF/ACETF nonsense of his on the other forum.

"If this was, should of, could of"....bad phrases when testing.


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: goldrosen on Apr 02, 02:16 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 02, 01:42 PM 2016

First off this is not the WTF thread.
The rules for KTF are fixed and have not changed.


Of course I know this is not WTF thread, just sayin i see a lot of "this is how I would have played it" in WTF thread, but with all different starting point n WTF can make all losing sessions provided by the others into a winning one..Im not saying it is bad or what thats  just what I observed..
And yea the rules for KTF is fixed, just follow n there is no "hey guys, this is how I would have played it" happen..yes?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 02, 02:21 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 02, 01:23 PM 2016
-General

This is becoming annoying.
The rules for KTF have been defined many times in this thread, and have not changed, but I guess people do not want to read all of the pages in this thread.

Here are the rules to play KTF one last time:

1 - Minimum BR $400
2 - Take last 10 numbers, or 10 new numbers if you prefer.
3 - Starting at spin #11 bet All of the unhit numbers
4 - Use a +1/-1 Progression
5 - Win stop is $30-40 on an American wheel and $40-$50 on a Euro wheel.
6 - Play until you win the session winstop or deplete your BR

Notto - Let us know if I missed something here.

Thats all there is to it folks.
Oh, and one last thing, forget about the count, averages or anything like that when playing KTF, you do not need to use them.

So, to summarize, just start betting unhit numbers at spin #11 and win your $30-$50 or ride the wave until you reach your profit, deplete your BR, or decide you have had enough.

I believe In almost 100 games Notto has only lost 1 time.
On a Euro wheel that would be about $4,600.00 profit.

-Celtic

THIS IS NOT A CHANGE JUST AN OMMISSION FROM MY FIRST POST!!!

I forgot to mention that as numbers hit in KTF they are taken down and thereby reduce the bet amount.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 02, 02:29 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 02, 01:23 PM 2016
-General

This is becoming annoying.
The rules for KTF have been defined many times in this thread, and have not changed, but I guess people do not want to read all of the pages in this thread.

Here are the rules to play KTF one last time:

1 - Minimum BR $400
2 - Take last 10 numbers, or 10 new numbers if you prefer.
3 - Starting at spin #11 bet All of the unhit numbers
4 - Use a +1/-1 Progression
5 - Win stop is $30-40 on an American wheel and $40-$50 on a Euro wheel.
6 - Play until you win the session winstop or deplete your BR

Notto - Let us know if I missed something here.

Thats all there is to it folks.
Oh, and one last thing, forget about the count, averages or anything like that when playing KTF, you do not need to use them.

So, to summarize, just start betting unhit numbers at spin #11 and win your $30-$50 or ride the wave until you reach your profit, deplete your BR, or decide you have had enough.

I believe In almost 100 games Notto has only lost 1 time.
On a Euro wheel that would be about $4,600.00 profit.

-Celtic
Thanks Celticknits for the post and rules. I wonder if this can be added first in the thread, maybe nottophammer can do it?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 02, 02:35 PM 2016
Quote from: goldrosen on Apr 02, 02:16 PM 2016
Of course I know this is not WTF thread, just sayin i see a lot of "this is how I would have played it" in WTF thread, but with all different starting point n WTF can make all losing sessions provided by the others into a winning one..Im not saying it is bad or what thats  just what I observed..
And yea the rules for KTF is fixed, just follow n there is no "hey guys, this is how I would have played it" happen..yes?


-Goldrosen

I am glad you found the rules for KTF.
I am surprised someone has not asked me why, if KTF is so good I am not still playing it.
The reason that I do not play KTF and play only the repeats is because I was not happy with some of the drawdowns to get to a $30-$40 profit on the American wheel in my B&M when playing KTF.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 02, 02:39 PM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Apr 02, 02:29 PM 2016
Thanks Celticknits for the post and rules. I wonder if this can be added first in the thread, maybe nottophammer can do it?

-Tuddilue

If it is possible then make sure that the rule to remove hit numbers is included.
I did send a seperate post about it.

Please be aware that these are not my rules but just a summation of all the play that has happened since page 1 of this thread.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 02, 02:43 PM 2016
Quote from: The General on Apr 02, 01:44 PM 2016
I merely suspected that your rules were too lose.


I only made the suggestion because too many people curve fit their testing without even realizing it.  A good example is that fruitcake XXVV that rambles and bloviates... on an on... while curve fitting that absurd WF/ACETF nonsense of his on the other forum.

"If this was, should of, could of"....bad phrases when testing.

-General

Would you please define what you mean by curve fitting for me.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 02, 02:48 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 02, 02:43 PM 2016
-General

Would you please define what you mean by curve fitting for me.

-Celtic

I will answer that for him.

Herb,

Isn't this what you told Winkel, without understanding what Winkel was saying.

Question to you General,

How do you get from 1 to 2?

I guess you avoiding my question because the answer can be curve fitted?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 02, 02:49 PM 2016
Exactly

The mere fact him and mr j say its curve fitting just shows they dont understand

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 02, 02:49 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 02, 02:43 PM 2016
-General

Would you please define what you mean by curve fitting for me.

-Celtic

Him (and others) are assuming you go back past spins and bet to win. In other words and in laymens terms 5 spins back was number 5 and you say i would have bet 5

Just the typical case of him (and others) not reading it all

If he did he would realise you are just showing how you would have played it given those past spins

If you give me 20 past spins and i say i would have played ktf or something else given tbose spins thats not curve fitting thats how you would have played given that scenario period

Best to ignore it

If i explained given the prior spins how id play thats not curve fitting. Thats just them not understanding. Lol.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 02, 03:01 PM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Apr 02, 02:48 PM 2016
I will answer that for him.

Herb,

Isn't this what you told Winkel, without understanding what Winkel was saying.

Question to you General,

How do you get from 1 to 2?

I guess you avoiding my question because the answer can be curve fitted?

He accused winkel of curve fitting because he went over past spins?

What a rose bush thorn this guy is when he is around

Winkel should have just ignored it and kept on
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 02, 03:12 PM 2016
RG,

People who have understood Winkel, would have had a lot more to learn,


Here are Winkels words to me:

Quote from: winkel on Jan 14, 01:02 PM 2014
okay, now I know what you mean.

I tried this, but it is boring and takes a lot of time to calculate.

It is easier to bet some more numbers and win!  :thumbsup:

br
winkel
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 02, 08:45 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 02, 02:49 PM 2016
Him (and others) are assuming you go back past spins and bet to win. In other words and in laymens terms 5 spins back was number 5 and you say i would have bet 5

Just the typical case of him (and others) not reading it all

If he did he would realise you are just showing how you would have played it given those past spins

If you give me 20 past spins and i say i would have played ktf or something else given tbose spins thats not curve fitting thats how you would have played given that scenario period

Best to ignore it

If i explained given the prior spins how id play thats not curve fitting. Thats just them not understanding. Lol.

-RG

Thank you for the explanation.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 03, 05:50 AM 2016
Alot of clouds floated by yesterday. Anyway most annoyed that the recorder mucked up on the 1.4.16 as todays #'s would have been game 100 for the average document.
The part that matters thou is todays #'s
Jackpot247.com 3.4.16 KTF +49 #25.
jackpotjoy 3.4.16
1 29
2 6
3 30
4 15
5 21
6 2
7 11
8 30
9 0
10 1
11 8
12 20
13 1
14 35
15 27
16 29
17 33
18 3
19 25
20 22
21 4
22 35
23 1
24 20
25 24
26 19
27 2
28 14
29 6
30 28
31 11
32 12
33 15
34 28
35 9
36 23
37 14
38 29
39 8
40 6
41 19
42 2
43 35
44 30
45 5
46 16
47 15
48 1
49 0
50 24
51 8
52 32
53 5
54 10
55 19
56 12
57 7
58 22
59 7
60 11

61 29
62 20
63 7
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 03, 06:07 AM 2016
Now for some curve fitting
Flat bet up to the 15th non-hit so 15th non-hit was spin 35.
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 [color=red]non-hit[/color]
28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11         [color=red]units[/color]
5.6 5.4 5.2 5 4.8 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 3.4 3.2 3 2.8 2.6 2.4 2.2  [color=red]to .20p unit[/color]
1 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 1 4 1 2 2 2 3 [color=red]spins[/color]
5.6 5.4 10.4 5 9.6 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 15.2 3.6 6.8 6.4 6 8.4 0 0[color=red] stakes[/color]
99.6[color=red]total staked[/color]
108[color=red]value of 15 non-hit[/color] 8.4[color=red]+/-[/color]

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11
5.6 5.4 5.2 5 4.8 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 3.4 3.2 3 2.8 2.6 2.4 2.2
1 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 1 4 1 2 2 2 3
5.6 5.4 10.4 5 9.6 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 15.2 3.6 6.8 6.4 6 8.4 0 0
99.6
108 8.4
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tacwell on Apr 03, 06:26 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 03, 06:07 AM 2016
Now for some curve fitting
Flat bet up to the 15th non-hit so 15th non-hit was spin 35.


That's not curve fitting at all. Curve fitting would be designing or tweaking your system around a specific set of spins to return a positive result, not RG's definition.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 03, 06:44 AM 2016
Quote from: Tacwell on Apr 03, 06:26 AM 2016
That's not curve fitting at all. Curve fitting would be designing or tweaking your system around a specific set of spins to return a positive result, not RG's definition.
Just having some fun, as someone said if a method can keep in front with a light progression,then surely Ktf will handle flat bet
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: bbb128 on Apr 04, 07:40 AM 2016
Hi friends

What is your target and stop loss for playing KTF?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 07:42 AM 2016
Go some posts back. Like 1 day back. Read celtics rules

400 stop loss

40 win goal

Notto lost 1 session out of 100
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 07:56 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 02, 01:23 PM 2016
-General

This is becoming annoying.
The rules for KTF have been defined many times in this thread, and have not changed, but I guess people do not want to read all of the pages in this thread.

Here are the rules to play KTF one last time:

1 - Minimum BR $400
2 - Take last 10 numbers, or 10 new numbers if you prefer.
3 - Starting at spin #11 bet All of the unhit numbers
4 - Use a +1/-1 Progression
5 - Win stop is $30-40 on an American wheel and $40-$50 on a Euro wheel.
6 - Play until you win the session winstop or deplete your BR

Notto - Let us know if I missed something here.

Thats all there is to it folks.
Oh, and one last thing, forget about the count, averages or anything like that when playing KTF, you do not need to use them.

So, to summarize, just start betting unhit numbers at spin #11 and win your $30-$50 or ride the wave until you reach your profit, deplete your BR, or decide you have had enough.

I believe In almost 100 games Notto has only lost 1 time.
On a Euro wheel that would be about $4,600.00 profit.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 04, 08:02 AM 2016
Quote2 - Take last 10 numbers, or 10 new numbers if you prefer.
3 - Starting at spin #11 bet All of the unhit numbers

Betting numbers that haven't hit is a bad idea on a live wheel.  It's one way by which you could actually lose at a rate that could theoretically exceed the house edge. You'd be better off betting the numbers that had actually hit on the live wheel.  However, it would still likely be a net loser.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 08:10 AM 2016
Quote from: The General on Apr 04, 08:02 AM 2016
Betting numbers that haven't hit is a bad idea on a live wheel.  It's one way by which you could actually lose at a rate that could theoretically exceed the house edge. You'd be better off betting the numbers that had actually hit on the live wheel.  However, it would still likely be a net loser.

Based on sheets posted from Celtic and especially notto i see zero evidence of this being a net loser. Zero. Zero. Zero.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 08:47 AM 2016
Quote from: The General on Apr 04, 08:02 AM 2016
Betting numbers that haven't hit is a bad idea on a live wheel.  It's one way by which you could actually lose at a rate that could theoretically exceed the house edge. You'd be better off betting the numbers that had actually hit on the live wheel.  However, it would still likely be a net loser.
Okay General
when i arrive at the B+M and finally get to sit in my favorite seat by the roulette wheel and decide to play my goofy method, i see #34 is on the marquee and a few spins later #35 is now on the marquee, i'd be better of too bet the 34 and 35 as they've hit, better to not try and complete the street with the un-hit 36.
Thanks for that so complete a street not a good idea as its betting unhit #'s
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 08:48 AM 2016
wonder what your going to tell us Turner?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 08:54 AM 2016
 :twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 08:55 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 04, 08:47 AM 2016
Okay General
when i arrive at the B+M and finally get to sit in my favorite seat by the roulette wheel and decide to play my goofy method,


Thanks for that so complete a street not a good idea as its betting unhit #'s

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Seriously your the man

This is what happens after page 40. Always said that

Notto let it roll off the back friend not worth it. Dont do what i do....lol
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 09:03 AM 2016
Yeah RG
just when General speaks that familiar smell comes around, whats it called, oh yeah bullshit
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 09:05 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 4.4.16 KTF +49 #13
jackpotjoy 4.4.16
1 33
2 35
3 17
4 22
5 22
6 15
7 4
8 1
9 26
10 24
11 30
12 32
13 11
14 1
15 20
16 12
17 13
18 2
19 15
20 2
21 29
22 34
23 3
24 11
25 29
26 2
27 3
28 18
29 30
30 24
31 25
32 16
33 34
34 15
35 5
36 12
37 17
38 34
39 15
40 27
41 15
42 34
43 13
44 27
45 3
46 7
47 31
48 17
49 26
50 28
51 15
52 36
53 2
54 22
55 16
56 15
57 30
58 1
59 2
60 35

61 12
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 09:11 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 04, 09:03 AM 2016
Yeah RG
just when General speaks that familiar smell comes around, whats it called, oh yeah bullshit

:twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 09:14 AM 2016
Well today we had the 100th game. So tomorrow we'll have 2 average documents, 1 with 101 games and one where we replace the earliest game with the latest and see how much these 2 averages change over the next 100 games.
Chris bis i believe it was, said one is linear, cant remember the other, do remember a joke was made about Halfords thou.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 09:21 AM 2016
Now the flat bet with KTF.
Last couple have been stopping when the 15th non-hit,hits.
Well as the meter goes up and the profit is there lets say 27 units from 1st 3 bets, like in todays game or yesterdays game +12 units from 5 flat bets theres a decision when to take the win.
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11
5.6 5.4 5.2 5 4.8 4.6 4.4 4.2 4 3.8 3.6 3.4 3.2 3 2.8 2.6 2.4 2.2
1 1 1 2 1 1 1 3 1 1 5 3 1 3 5
5.6 5.4 5.2 10 4.8 4.6 4.4 12.6 4 3.8 18 10.2 3.2 9 14 0 0
1.6 1.8 2 -2.8 2.4 2.6 114.8
8 9 10 -14 12 13 108 -6.8

Well when the 6th non-hit came after 7 spins the profit to £/$1.00 is +38 wouldn't you stop. After all its flat bet.
If you carried on till the 15th non-hit in 30 spins like in todays came spin 40 you'd be -34 flat betting.
So you have to set a win goal
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 09:34 AM 2016
Quote from: The General on Apr 04, 08:02 AM 2016
Betting numbers that haven't hit is a bad idea on a live wheel.  It's one way by which you could actually lose at a rate that could theoretically exceed the house edge. You'd be better off betting the numbers that had actually hit on the live wheel.  However, it would still likely be a net loser.

I am still waiting..  For this thread..  Anyone know where it is?

iboba   
March 21, 2009, 6:22am   Report to Moderator
Guest User
OK mate about Winkels G.U.T.,
I have study it,tested it,for months,and come to this;It is not H.G.with all respect to the author.It would need a new thread to elaborate my claims,but the time will show.iboba

THIS IS TOO CONFUSED.MIND BOGGLING.........Agree with you.,mate
Logged   
E-mail   Reply: 6 - 3



Well really, how can someone claim to know it all, when they don't know what's it all about?

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 09:42 AM 2016
They assume it will fail without knowing thats the problem. Ill take nottos 100 sheets anyday over their words. Talk is cheap
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 09:52 AM 2016
Another problem

VB has no place in certain sections of a strategy forum

Theres a sub section for it isnt there?

I for one am sick of his repetitiveness

He should be back to work soon.....i like the guy but i cant wait till hes back to work cause i think he tries to get a rise out of people

Ignoring him would be a good method. At this point he probably laughs at the keyboard. Ignore him and beat him at his own game.

At this point he enjoys being a pest so ignore it!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 09:55 AM 2016
The question is not to beat him at his own game, but to make him understand, if he doesn't understand whats going on, to keep his mouth shut.

Let people who understand deal with it.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 09:55 AM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Apr 04, 09:55 AM 2016
The question is not to beat him at his own game, but to make him understand, if he doesn't understand whats going on, to keep his mouth shut.

Let people who understand deal with it.

He doing it to get a rise out of people i believe

I call it being a pain in the arse
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 09:57 AM 2016
A sub section for him to discuss his way would be good

So he can leave the people alone like notto and winkel etc etc

No reason for him to post in this thread

Hes also on roulette 30 roulette forum bet selection doing the same thing

Soooooo annoying

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 10:02 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 09:57 AM 2016
A sub section for him to discuss his way would be good

So he can leave the people alone like notto and winkel etc etc

No reason for him to post in this thread

Hes also on roukette 30 roulette forum bet selection doing the same thing

Soooooo annoying

Yeah, I finally decided to join Bet Selection.  I noticed that too...

Like Steve and Turner say he has knowledge. I don't doubt them.

However, if people don't read and understand , they are at fault, not the original poster.


Here tell me how many times has this been mentioned in the thread?

Quote from: bbb128 on Apr 04, 07:40 AM 2016
Hi friends

What is your target and stop loss for playing KTF?

What makes you think, he will play it right?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 10:02 AM 2016
Sorry Notto, not trying to ruin your thread.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 10:14 AM 2016
Ill say one last thing here about him

We all know his thoughts. We all know how he feels about strategies

But he goes into threads and states it anyway

Repetitively

Its not productive and gets a rise out of people. Counter productive for ANY forum to go into threads to do what he does

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 11:02 AM 2016
Anyway

Notto

100 sessions. 1 loss?

All fobt? Any airball?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 12:05 PM 2016
All airball.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 12:06 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 04, 12:05 PM 2016
All airball.

My fault. Jackppt 247 is airball i forgot. Illegal here.....online
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 04, 12:35 PM 2016
Just curious,

Why are you guys posting on a public forum and asking for input and then getting upset when people more experienced than you offer input and tell you the facts?



Pull your heads out of your ass and quit acting like douches.

If you don't like criticism, then you shouldn't post on the big boy boards.

By the way, I'm not the only one that doesn't understand why guys are recycling the same old bunk.  link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=2257.msg151572#msg151572
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 12:44 PM 2016
General
Theres a dart player in the PDC called Bullyboy you fit the picture perfectly
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 12:52 PM 2016
Quite right RG
Dont know why he's in the KTF thread, when no one asked for his advice anyway.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 04, 12:52 PM 2016
FYI,

The earth is round.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 04, 12:53 PM 2016
QuoteQuite right RG
Dont know why he's in the KTF thread, when no one asked for his advice anyway.

(link:://growingleaders.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/my-brain-is-full.jpg)

If you guys don't want advice, then why are you posting on a public forum!  DUH!  DUH! 

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 12:54 PM 2016
Quote from: The General on Apr 04, 12:53 PM 2016
If you guys don't want advice, then when are you posting on a public forum!  DUH!  DUH!

Xander. Herb. Come on man. Seriously. Can you stop. Dont ruin this thread. Please

Go away
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 04, 12:56 PM 2016
(link:s://forums.finalgear.com/attachments/top-gear-2002-2015/jeremy-clarkson-suspended-over-fracas/15881d1428324609-denial_riverinegypt.jpg)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 12:58 PM 2016
K cool man

We get the point

Please stop

Your acting like a child who isnt getting his way

Your being a piece of garbage. Piss off

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 04, 01:16 PM 2016
QuoteYour acting like a child who isnt getting his way

Your being a piece of garbage. Piss off

By the way..

It's "you're", not "your".
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 01:18 PM 2016
Quote from: The General on Apr 04, 01:16 PM 2016
By the way..

It's "you're", not "your".

There's a saying. When you are losing an argument attack someones grammer.

I know proper grammar. But i type fast on the phone so i do things like "u"

Go sit in a corner and reflect on yourself. Then come back when u want to play nice

(link:://cdn.meme.am/instances/62563671.jpg)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 04, 01:23 PM 2016
Whats kind of funny here, there are a lot of people that enjoy this thread, correct? What if it got locked? Dont worry, I wont do so and even if I did, it would get unlocked. Point being, when my threads get locked, well that seems to be ok?

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 01:23 PM 2016
Dont lock it. Just eject the fuc*ing problem
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 04, 01:26 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 01:23 PM 2016
Dont lock it. Just eject the fuc*ing problem

Like I said, I wont lock it and it would be UNlocked anyways. Just curious regarding my question.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 01:27 PM 2016
I digress. Im not going to disrespect notto any longer. This is his thread.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 04, 01:33 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 01:27 PM 2016
I digress. Im not going to disrespect notto any longer. This is his thread.

but you're closing in on 4K posts.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 02:08 PM 2016
Now's all quite on the western front.
I'll keep on posting about the flat bet part. Any rules i need to know
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tacwell on Apr 04, 02:08 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 01:23 PM 2016
Dont lock it. Just eject the fuc*ing problem

Geezus, there is one common denominator in all these arguments, and it's not The General or Ken or anyone else, it's you RG, you start commenting on peoples threads, someone disagrees and you start flailing your handbag around, dishing out insults and screaming and shouting like a teenage girl, and once everything settles you come in with a few more c***y comments just to stir shit up again, and no-one learns anything.

It was entertaining for a while but now it's just getting tiresome. When you were banned for 5 days there were no arguments, just discussions. So who is the actual "fuc*ing problem"?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 02:17 PM 2016
Quote from: The General on Apr 04, 12:35 PM 2016
Just curious,

Why are you guys posting on a public forum and asking for input and then getting upset when people more experienced than you offer input and tell you the facts?



Pull your heads out of your ass and quit acting like douches.

If you don't like criticism, then you shouldn't post on the big boy boards.

By the way, I'm not the only one that doesn't understand why guys are recycling the same old bunk.  link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=2257.msg151572#msg151572


General,
learn to read and understand..  Before calling names to people.

Thta's how I got babbed the first time around. Dealing with Ken, who admitted not having read the thread or understood it in the first place.


READ THIS GENERAL:

SHOW ME WHERE WE HAVE ASKED FOR PEOPLE TO GIVE THEIR OPINION ON THIS THREAD?

IF YOU ARE SO SMART WHY HAVE YOU OMITTED MY QUESTION
HOW DO YOU GET FROM 1 TO 2?

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 02:18 PM 2016
Quote from: Tacwell on Apr 04, 02:08 PM 2016
Geezus, there is one common denominator in all these arguments, and it's not The General or Ken or anyone else, it's you RG, you start commenting on peoples threads, someone disagrees and you start flailing your handbag around, dishing out insults and screaming and shouting like a teenage girl, and once everything settles you come in with a few more c***y comments just to stir shit up again, and no-one learns anything.

It was entertaining for a while but now it's just getting tiresome. When you were banned for 5 days there were no arguments, just discussions. So who is the actual "fuc*ing problem"?

Like a duck. Rolls off the back. Have a nice day tac.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 02:25 PM 2016
Quote from: Tacwell on Apr 04, 02:08 PM 2016
Geezus, there is one common denominator in all these arguments, and it's not The General or Ken or anyone else, it's you RG, you start commenting on peoples threads, someone disagrees and you start flailing your handbag around, dishing out insults and screaming and shouting like a teenage girl, and once everything settles you come in with a few more c***y comments just to stir shit up again, and no-one learns anything.

It was entertaining for a while but now it's just getting tiresome. When you were banned for 5 days there were no arguments, just discussions. So who is the actual "fuc*ing problem"?
I would let you re-think this.
If it wasn't for the GENERAL, HERB or IBOBA or what ever the F***K his name is.
People following WINKEL and understanding Winkel would have had a lot to learn
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 02:27 PM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Apr 04, 02:25 PM 2016
I would let you re-think this.
If it wasn't for the GENERAL, HERB or IBOBA or what ever the F***K his name is.
People following WINKEL and understanding Winkel would have had a lot to learn


+1.

Im not the problem. What i am is a loud mouth when it comes to injutices. Things need to be said. The general shouldnt post in this thread period.

While im a member here this man will never ruin a thread.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 03:00 PM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Apr 04, 01:23 PM 2016
Whats kind of funny here, there are a lot of people that enjoy this thread, correct? What if it got locked? Dont worry, I wont do so and even if I did, it would get unlocked. Point being, when my threads get locked, well that seems to be ok?

Ken

Even thinking about it shows the kind of mind you have....

Isn't that what you said, before I got banned and had to call you names.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 03:00 PM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Apr 04, 03:00 PM 2016
Even thinking about it shows the kind of mind you have....

Isn't that what you said, before I got banned and had to call you names.

"Recycled crap" comes from the other side just as often
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 03:04 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 03:00 PM 2016
"Recycled crap" comes from the other side just as often

Well, this time around I have decided not to stay quite either.

This is one way of giving back.

I have said this 3 years ago saying this again. If you don't understand any thread or what's being said, stay away from it.
Don't ruin it for others.

This is what happened when PA was teaching how to build your own HG your own way...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 03:12 PM 2016
Quote from: The General on Apr 04, 12:53 PM 2016
(link:://growingleaders.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/my-brain-is-full.jpg)

If you guys don't want advice, then why are you posting on a public forum!  DUH!  DUH! 

We are here to share our knowledge with people who want to understand and PRACTICE PRACTICE whats being taught.

PRACTICE just like any other sport.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 03:16 PM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Apr 04, 03:12 PM 2016
We are here to share our knowledge with people who want to understand and PRACTICE PRACTICE whats being taught.

PRACTICE just like any other sport.


And he is here to tell us we are all wrong

Lose lose situation

Thats why i feel going forward we should ignore him
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 03:19 PM 2016
Well, thats up tp Notto..  He is the owner of the thread and can block people from posting and stop ruining the thread any more.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 03:36 PM 2016
Im totally on your side

Im no angel, thats for sure

But what the general does is really a forum downer

And what ive heard through the grape vine he isnt too trustworthy either. A VB player hanging around a strategy forum? Ummmm

A few days ago the general stated to turner he wasnt here to help him or anyone else

So why is he here then? To berate? Lets be real

Oh i know why

He wants data collection in other cities

So he is allowed to find people to data mine auto wheels while putting people down at the same time

Gimme a break.

I was interested in meeting with him at my local casino. Not anymore

If he is here to find people to data mine he should leave it at that and not enter threads to put it down
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 03:45 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 03:36 PM 2016
Im totally on your side

Im no angel, thats for sure

But what the general does is really a forum downer

And what ive heard through the grape vine he isnt too trustworthy either. A VB player hanging around a strategy forum? Ummmm

A few days ago the general stated to turner he wasnt here to help him or anyone else

So why is he here then? To berate? Lets be real

Oh i know why

He wants data collection in other cities

So he is allowed to find people to data mine auto wheels while putting people down at the same time

Gimme a break.

I was interested in meeting with him at my local casino. Not anymore

If he is here to find people to data mine he should leave it at that and not enter threads to put it down

Personally I don't care if he is one or not.  Whatever floats his boat.

However, I will re word this again.  At 1 point in my life I was here to make money, I still am.

However, I have said this, in order to get anything from me on a gold platter it will cost an arm and a leg.

I am giving you advice where you have to go learn for yourself. PRACTICE till it becames second nature to you...


Here is a thread of "GIVING BACK"

link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=13641.msg117658#msg117658


Here is another one:
Read the first sentence here:
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=15710.msg135778#msg135778
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 04, 04:14 PM 2016
So KTF is like you were betting with a fixed set of numbers but you´d wait for ten virtual losses before betting.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 04:23 PM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 04, 04:14 PM 2016
So KTF is like you were betting with a fixed set of numbers but you´d wait for ten virtual losses before betting.

If KTF was following this it would lose as soon as the second session started.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 04:25 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 02, 01:23 PM 2016
-General

This is becoming annoying.
The rules for KTF have been defined many times in this thread, and have not changed, but I guess people do not want to read all of the pages in this thread.

Here are the rules to play KTF one last time:

1 - Minimum BR $400
2 - Take last 10 numbers, or 10 new numbers if you prefer.
3 - Starting at spin #11 bet All of the unhit numbers
4 - Use a +1/-1 Progression
5 - Win stop is $30-40 on an American wheel and $40-$50 on a Euro wheel.
6 - Play until you win the session winstop or deplete your BR

Notto - Let us know if I missed something here.

Thats all there is to it folks.
Oh, and one last thing, forget about the count, averages or anything like that when playing KTF, you do not need to use them.

So, to summarize, just start betting unhit numbers at spin #11 and win your $30-$50 or ride the wave until you reach your profit, deplete your BR, or decide you have had enough.

I believe In almost 100 games Notto has only lost 1 time.
On a Euro wheel that would be about $4,600.00 profit.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: blueman on Apr 04, 04:26 PM 2016
Once again -why is important to you what general says?? :question:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 04:29 PM 2016
SEE RG,

I know you are a nice guy.  I respect that.

Once again question to everyone, if you can't read a thread and understand, all that's being said. No need to add crap.

Now, we will have someone, Sorry Denzie, I know you admitted playing it wrong, will come along and say I lost my bankroll.

Question, did he understand , what was said, did he practice, no. If you can't follow simple instructions, this game is not for you.

NOTICE I SAID GAME AND NOT THREAD.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 04, 04:31 PM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Apr 04, 03:19 PM 2016
Well, thats up tp Notto..  He is the owner of the thread and can block people from posting and stop ruining the thread any more.

-Notto

Were you aware of this?
That would be the solution we are all looking for.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 04:31 PM 2016
Quote from: blueman on Apr 04, 04:26 PM 2016
Once again -why is important to you what general says?? :question:

Because others and him are going around calling people idiots indirectly.

Like I said, read the words between lines.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 04:37 PM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Apr 04, 04:29 PM 2016
SEE RG,

I know you are a nice guy.  I respect that.

Once again question to everyone, if you can't read a thread and understand, all that's being said. No need to add crap.

Now, we will have someone, Sorry Denzie, I know you admitted playing it wrong, will come along and say I lost my bankroll.

Question, did he understand , what was said, did he practice, no. If you can't follow simple instructions, this game is not for you.

NOTICE I SAID GAME AND NOT THREAD.

I am a nice guy

The only kind of engagement i want is like the one i had in willies thread

But when someone comes with condescending attitude i call it out

If you dont believe in a method leave it alone.

I enjoy the company of those like celtic and willie and notto etc etc its why im here
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 04, 04:47 PM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Apr 04, 04:23 PM 2016
If KTF was following this it would lose as soon as the second session started.

Well to me it´s like how I described. If you try betting on the same 26 numbers spin after spin, you´ll see there will be several losses in a row. To avoid those losses you would wait for a number of virtual losses in the hope next time you bet for real variance will be on your side i.e. your numbers by that time will be due. So Roulette has no memory, every number has the same chance of hitting, etc. Instead of a fixed set of numbers it can be any set of 26 numbers, that can change every time you´re about to bet. Which means the numbers that just hit in the last 10 spins are your 10 virtual losses.



Title: Re: KTF
Post by: blueman on Apr 04, 04:49 PM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Apr 04, 04:31 PM 2016
Because others and him are going around calling people idiots indirectly.

Like I said, read the words between lines.

It doesn't matter what  says but who says. :lol:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 04:57 PM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 04, 04:47 PM 2016
Well to me it´s like how I described. If you try betting on the same 26 numbers spin after spin, you´ll see there will be several losses in a row. To avoid those losses you would wait for a number of virtual losses in the hope next time you bet for real variance will be on your side i.e. your numbers by that time will be due. So Roulette has no memory, every number has the same chance of hitting, etc. Instead of a fixed set of numbers it can be any set of 26 numbers, that can change every time you´re about to bet. Which means the numbers that just hit in the last 10 spins are your 10 virtual losses.

Here is your first mistake about KTF.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 04:58 PM 2016
Quote from: blueman on Apr 04, 04:49 PM 2016
It doesn't matter what  says but who says. :lol:

I guess you don't care if someone calls you one. However, a mod got called and I was banned. So why do they have the right to do so?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 04, 05:03 PM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Apr 04, 04:57 PM 2016
Here is your first mistake about KTF.

I think you didn´t understand what I wrote. Someone else will.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tamino on Apr 04, 05:03 PM 2016
This verbal exchange brings me  back to the days of the old Gambler`s Glen.



( Reference to  the  The General ).
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 05:06 PM 2016
Quote from: Tamino on Apr 04, 05:03 PM 2016
This verbal exchange brings me  back to the days of the old Gambler`s Glen.

All we need is john legend and lanky to swing thru
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 05:15 PM 2016
All jokes aside

All kidding aside

For someone to come and openly state publically they are not here to help anyone but only here to data mine certain cities is just outright absurd

Whats absurd? Bashing methods and threads and people after stating that

Hopefully hes back on the road soon
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 05:18 PM 2016
The General from several days ago

Enough said


Quote


The General

« Reply #128 on: March 28, 2016, 09:14:38 PM »
Quote
Turner...
Azim...

Guys,

I'm not here to help you.  I merely came here for information from certain people in certain locations.  That's it. 

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 05:19 PM 2016
If you try betting on the same 26 numbers spin after spin

If this is not what you wrote and meant, I am sorry. Tell me  what you meant?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 04, 05:36 PM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Apr 04, 04:31 PM 2016
Because others and him are going around calling people idiots indirectly.

Like I said, read the words between lines.

I can count 200 posts that have done this very same thing in the last two months.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 05:39 PM 2016
Quote from: Tamino on Apr 04, 05:03 PM 2016
This verbal exchange brings me  back to the days of the old Gambler`s Glen.



( Reference to  the  The General ).

Tamino,

Some call it being gifted... I have an issue. I can read between lines.

You tell me what does this mean:

Quote from: Azim on September 08, 2015, 09:16:06 AM

What do you think of this advice?

BTW there are 19 member's who have posted on this thread..  lets take Turner, Yourself(MrJ) , Himself(P.A) and myself(Azim)
we have 15 member's of which 7 have complained what do you think 8 other's are doing?

The other 8? Hopefully making an appointment with a psychotherapist.

Ken


When he got it back from me, he banned me.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 04, 05:42 PM 2016
I still stand behind that post, no regrets. I banned you but you left a little something out, didn't you??

Your ban was lifted (not by me) in a SHORT period of time.

Ken

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 05:43 PM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Apr 04, 05:42 PM 2016
I still stand behind that post, no regrets. I banned you but you left a little something out, didn't you??

Your ban was lifted (not by me) in a SHORT period of time.

Ken

Exactly my point, it's your power and whatever comes with it. Thats why you get away with it.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 05:44 PM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Apr 04, 05:42 PM 2016
I still stand behind that post, no regrets. I banned you but you left a little something out, didn't you??

Your ban was lifted (not by me) in a SHORT period of time.

Ken

It was never lifted, I had to serve it in full.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 05:45 PM 2016
Mr J has been tame the past few days, i have to salute him
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 04, 05:50 PM 2016
@Azim

OK imagine you were betting always on the same numbers, say from o to 25. You´d win most of the time but once the numbers 26 to 36 started hitting they´d wipe out your BR. So instead of betting every spin, you´d think of a worst case scenario where those numbers 26 to 36 would appear, and to avoid it you´d wait for the Run From Hell to end before betting. Like, after a long sequence of LLLLLLLLLL the next spin has got to be a Win, right? That´s the virtual betting where you wait for the 10 virtual losses.
Those numbers from 0 to 25 were just for illustration purposes. Every number has the same chance to appear as the others, so those 26 numbers can change everytime, dynamically. KTF waits for 10 numbers to hit and then bets for the remaining opposite (26). So the 26 are your set of numbers and the previous ten your virtual losses.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 05:52 PM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 04, 05:50 PM 2016
@Azim

OK imagine you were betting always on the same numbers, say from o to 25. You´d win most of the time but once the numbers 26 to 36 started hitting they´d wipe out your BR. So instead of betting every spin, you´d think of a worst case scenario where those numbers 26 to 36 would appear, and to avoid it you´d wait for the Run From Hell to end before betting. Like, after a long sequence of LLLLLLLLLL the next spin has got to be a Win, right? That´s the virtual betting where you wait for the 10 virtual losses.
Those numbers from 0 to 25 were just for illustration purposes. Every number has the same chance to appear as the others, so those 26 numbers can change everytime, dynamically. KTF waits for 10 numbers to hit and then bets for the remaining opposite (26). So the 26 are your set of numbers and the previous ten your virtual losses.

No it doesn't work like that. There can be 2-3-7 repeats we only wait 10 spins no matter what the outcome.

We areen't waiting because we want virtual losses we are waitng for numbers to pass by and not have to bet 37 numbers as General has said.

This way there is some profit otherwise the payouts would drown you.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 05:54 PM 2016
look at history board, bet all numbers except last 10, can be 30 numbers can be 26 numbers
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 05:56 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 05:54 PM 2016
look at history board, bet all numbers except last 10, can be 30 numbers can be 26 numbers

Yes this works too..  Less time at the table.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 04, 06:09 PM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Apr 04, 05:44 PM 2016
It was never lifted, I had to serve it in full.

Wrong answer and if you did, cool. I am on other non-related to gambling forums. NO WAY can members talk to mods or the OWNER the way they do so here. Take NOW for instance. You'll go toe to toe with me for the next 3 hours, who has the biggest nuts. You wont stop and *PART* of that reason is.....little if anything happens to you. I know that, you know that and the guests reading this know that.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 06:19 PM 2016
honestly it would be cool if we had a place where everyone helped everyone and those that didnt believe, left. that would be ideal and freakin awesome

i had a GREAT time testing grassroots only to have a few douches ruin it....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 04, 06:29 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 06:19 PM 2016
honestly it would be cool if we had a place where everyone helped everyone and those that didnt believe, left. that would be ideal and freakin awesome

i had a GREAT time testing grassroots only to have a few douches ruin it....

I like wording to be exact. Would you say that thread is SLOW now because of those guys you referred  to? In other words, six months from now, will it be my (and others?) fault that Grassroots is no longer spoken of?

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: icashbot on Apr 04, 06:34 PM 2016
is anyone going to actually  post some stats or work on KTF  :question: :)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tamino on Apr 04, 06:54 PM 2016
With a new  subject title  like" Grassroots 123 Two dozen roulette method" it would be  a drawing point for new members joining this forum. .

Grassroots 123 wont do it  6 months from now without any further description on the heading.




Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 07:08 PM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Apr 04, 06:09 PM 2016
Wrong answer and if you did, cool. I am on other non-related to gambling forums. NO WAY can members talk to mods or the OWNER the way they do so here. Take NOW for instance. You'll go toe to toe with me for the next 3 hours, who has the biggest nuts. You wont stop and *PART* of that reason is.....little if anything happens to you. I know that, you know that and the guests reading this know that.

Ken

Wrong answer because you want to make it sound like it was lifted...  Anyways..  You be the hero!!!!

Why are you posting in here in the first place.

Yes  not 6 months..  5 years just like GUT no one paid attention cause no-one wanted to make the effort to understand.

We just wait for the #17 and #18 to hit and bet the unhit number to complete the street.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 07:11 PM 2016
at the end of the day the arguments really are petty because we are throwing chips at the same negative expectation table

i dont care if you play 3 numbers for repeats, 30 numbers, a progression, a little dance first, does not matter
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 07:17 PM 2016
I am not saying I got attacked first.

I am and have always said I will not give anything on a gold platter without a price.

If you want to learn what I know, I have directed everyone to the threads and asked to practice.

Some had asked me questions before, I have answered them cause they have shown an effort to practice. The questions were not related to the way I have programmed my bots.

After being accused of getting money or whatever from Steve, I have blocked all pm on here.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Azim on Apr 04, 07:26 PM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Apr 04, 05:36 PM 2016
I can count 200 posts that have done this very same thing in the last two months.

Ken

I have never once called anyone an idiot till i was told one.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 07:41 PM 2016
im actually disappointed. i think this may be the type of rise he wanted

quicker we get back to ktf quicker *we* win
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 07:52 PM 2016
I have received some inside information

i know who the general/xander/herb/ blah blah blah is

link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=iHVvsZZW3Mc
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 07:55 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 31, 05:09 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 31.3.16 KTF +59 #1
jackpotjoy 31.3.16
1 16
2 27
3 10
4 2
5 9
6 14
7 17
8 29
9 8
10 36
11 11
12 2
13 3
14 24
15 35
16 16
17 24
18 17
19 35
20 35
21 0
22 6
23 3
24 12
25 4
26 16
27 32
28 31
29 30
30 18
31 31
32 0
33 2
34 7
35 1
36 26
37 25
38 1
39 14
40 16
41 24
42 26
43 7
44 17
45 27
46 19
47 8
48 33
49 16
50 7
51 8
52 36
53 6
54 25
55 10
56 9
57 10
58 16
59 27
60 2

61 3
62 21
63 35
64 20
65 12
66 30
67 35
68 13
69 32
70 23
71 34
72 29
73 5
74 26
75 7
76 16
77 4
78 17
79 33
80 24
81 12
82 5
83 24
84 6
85 0


spins 1-10  10/10
       11-20        4-1
       21-30     12+2
       31-40     16+1
as spins 11-20 ends 4,-1   would flat bet recover from 5 repeats spins 16-20? spin 36 is 15th non-hit
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 16 36
2 27 35
3 10 34
4 2 33
5 9 32
6 14 31
7 17 30
8 29 29
9 8 28 stake
10 36 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 11 26 1 27 36 9
12 2 r 1 26 0 -17
13 3 25 1 26 36 -7
14 24 24 1 25 36 4
15 35 23 1 24 36 16
16 16 r 1 23 0 -7
17 24 r 1 23 0 -30
18 17 r 1 23 0 -53
19 35 r 1 23 0 -76
20 35 r 1 23 0 -99
21 0 22 1 23 36 -86
22 6 21 1 22 36 -72
23 3 r 1 21 0 -93
24 12 20 1 21 36 -78
25 4 19 1 20 36 -62
26 16 r 1 19 0 -81
27 32 18 1 19 36 -64
28 31 17 1 18 36 -46
29 30 16 1 17 36 -27
30 18 15 1 16 36 -7
31 31 r 1 15 0 -22
32 0 r 1 15 0 -37
33 2 r 1 15 0 -52
34 7 14 1 15 36 -31
35 1 13 1 14 36 -9
36 26 12 1 13 36 14
37 25 11 1 12
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 04, 08:04 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 04, 07:55 PM 2016
as spins 11-20 ends 4,-1   would flat bet recover from 5 repeats spins 16-20? spin 36 is 15th non-hit
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 16 36
2 27 35
3 10 34
4 2 33
5 9 32
6 14 31
7 17 30
8 29 29
9 8 28 stake
10 36 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 11 26 1 27 36 9
12 2 r 1 26 0 -17
13 3 25 1 26 36 -7
14 24 24 1 25 36 4
15 35 23 1 24 36 16
16 16 r 1 23 0 -7
17 24 r 1 23 0 -30
18 17 r 1 23 0 -53
19 35 r 1 23 0 -76
20 35 r 1 23 0 -99
21 0 22 1 23 36 -86
22 6 21 1 22 36 -72
23 3 r 1 21 0 -93
24 12 20 1 21 36 -78
25 4 19 1 20 36 -62
26 16 r 1 19 0 -81
27 32 18 1 19 36 -64
28 31 17 1 18 36 -46
29 30 16 1 17 36 -27
30 18 15 1 16 36 -7
31 31 r 1 15 0 -22
32 0 r 1 15 0 -37
33 2 r 1 15 0 -52
34 7 14 1 15 36 -31
35 1 13 1 14 36 -9
36 26 12 1 13 36 14
37 25 11 1 12


-Notto

Finally something topic related.

Just a thought but why not try flatbetting and doing a complete session reset after we have ANY positive amount.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 04, 08:10 PM 2016
Since you guys like stir sh#t up...and rather than screwing up the continuity of this thread, feel free to bi#ch at me here:  link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16819.msg151757;topicseen#msg151757



Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 08:15 PM 2016
dont take the bait, leave that thread empty
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 04, 08:42 PM 2016
Quote from: The General on Apr 04, 08:10 PM 2016
Since you guys like stir sh#t up...and rather than screwing up the continuity of this thread, feel free to bi#ch at me here:  link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16819.msg151757;topicseen#msg151757

-General

Thank you.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 04, 08:51 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 04, 08:15 PM 2016
dont take the bait, leave that thread empty

-RG

Someone has to say it.
Roulette - Stop throwing gasoline on the fire!!!

I think the General had a great idea.
In the last 30 posts here how many were topic related
He has provided a thread to take all this nonsense to and you can fight to your hearts content with him.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 04, 09:51 PM 2016
Quote from: Azim on Apr 04, 07:08 PM 2016
Wrong answer because you want to make it sound like it was lifted...  Anyways..  You be the hero!!!!

Why are you posting in here in the first place.

Yes  not 6 months..  5 years just like GUT no one paid attention cause no-one wanted to make the effort to understand.

We just wait for the #17 and #18 to hit and bet the unhit number to complete the street.


FYI....do you realize that you are referred to as..."one of them"? (lol) Seriously, you are in the CREW, congrats on that. Are your posts some kind of a BAITING trick (lmao).....
"See, see, that mod Ken is at it again Steve. See, look Steve (link added), what will you do about that? The forum is now ruined" !!!

You're a joke Azim, nothing more, nothing less.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 06:34 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 04, 08:04 PM 2016
-Notto

Finally something topic related.

Just a thought but why not try flatbetting and doing a complete session reset after we have ANY positive amount.

-Celtic
From the previous 100 games where we use +1/-1, if we are going to flat bet then take the 1st positive to br, past experiance would tell one to take the very 1st positive then reset or move to another table.
From todays #'s we should do exactly that even if it meant giving up the next 2 wins.  If you look at the attached sheet,take the 1st positive you'd be +22.
Oh yes todays game is the 1st where its 7/10 in spins 1-10
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 28 36
2 7 35
3 28 r
4 9 34
5 32 33
6 7 r
7 25 32
8 29 31
9 4 30 stake
10 28 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 19 29 1 30 36 6
12 3 28 1 29 36 13
13 31 27 1 28 36 21
14 29 r 1 27 0 -6
15 7 r 1 27 0 -33
16 13 26 1 27 36 -24
17 24 25 1 26 36 -14
18 0 24 1 25 36 -3
19 10 23 1 24 36 9
20 20 22 1 23 0 -14
21 4 r 1 22 0 -36
22 18 21 1 22 36 -22
23 1 20 1 21 36 -7
24 28 r 1 20 0 -27
25 24 r 1 20 0 -47
26 34 19 1 20 36 -31
27 20 r 1 19 0 -50
28 18 r 1 19 0 -69
29 20 r 1 19 0 -88
30 23 18 1 19 36 -71
31 22 17 1 18 36 -53
32 31 r 1 17 0 -70
33 35 16 1 17 36 -51
34 30 15 1 16 36 -31
35 1 r 1 15 0 -46
36 11 14 1 15 36 -25
37 10 r 1 14 0 -39
38 11 r 1 14 0 -53
39 31 r 1 14 0 -67
40 36 13 1 14 36 -45
41 7 r 1 13 0 -58
42 19 r 1 13 0 -71
43 35 r 1 13 0 -84
44 6 12 1 13 36 -61
45 21 11 1 12 36 -37
46 20 r 1 11 0 -48
47 19 r 1 11 0 -59
48 7 r 1 11 0 -70
49 36 r 1 11 0 -81
50 12 10 1 11 36 -56
51 16 9 1 10 36 -30
52 22 r 1 9 0 -39
53 13 r 1 9 0 -48
54 2 8 1 9 36 -21
55 10 r 1 8 0 -29
56 3 r 1 8 0 -37
57 8 7 1 8 36 -9
58 34 r 1 7 0 -16
59 30 r 1 7 0 -23
60 25 r 1 7 0 -30
0 -30
61 3 r 1 7 0 -37
62 13 r 1 7 0 -44
63 9 r 1 7 0 -51
64 35 r 1 7 0 -58
65 9 r 1 7 0 -65
66 17 6 1 7 36 -36
67 2 r 1 6 0 -42
68 5 5 1 6 36 -12
69 23
70 7
71 4
72 28
73 5
74 18
75 16
76 17
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 06:37 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 05, 06:34 AM 2016
From the previous 100 games where we use +1/-1, if we are going to flat bet then take the 1st positive to br, past experiance would tell one to take the very 1st positive then reset or move to another table.
From todays #'s we should do exactly that even if it meant giving up the next 2 wins.  If you look at the attached sheet,take the 1st positive you'd be +22.
Oh yes todays game is the 1st where its 7/10 in spins 1-10
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 28 36
2 7 35
3 28 r
4 9 34
5 32 33
6 7 r
7 25 32
8 29 31
9 4 30 stake
10 28 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 19 29 1 30 36 6
12 3 28 1 29 36 13
13 31 27 1 28 36 21
14 29 r 1 27 0 -6
15 7 r 1 27 0 -33
16 13 26 1 27 36 -24
17 24 25 1 26 36 -14
18 0 24 1 25 36 -3
19 10 23 1 24 36 9
20 20 22 1 23 0 -14
21 4 r 1 22 0 -36
22 18 21 1 22 36 -22
23 1 20 1 21 36 -7
24 28 r 1 20 0 -27
25 24 r 1 20 0 -47
26 34 19 1 20 36 -31
27 20 r 1 19 0 -50
28 18 r 1 19 0 -69
29 20 r 1 19 0 -88
30 23 18 1 19 36 -71
31 22 17 1 18 36 -53
32 31 r 1 17 0 -70
33 35 16 1 17 36 -51
34 30 15 1 16 36 -31
35 1 r 1 15 0 -46
36 11 14 1 15 36 -25
37 10 r 1 14 0 -39
38 11 r 1 14 0 -53
39 31 r 1 14 0 -67
40 36 13 1 14 36 -45
41 7 r 1 13 0 -58
42 19 r 1 13 0 -71
43 35 r 1 13 0 -84
44 6 12 1 13 36 -61
45 21 11 1 12 36 -37
46 20 r 1 11 0 -48
47 19 r 1 11 0 -59
48 7 r 1 11 0 -70
49 36 r 1 11 0 -81
50 12 10 1 11 36 -56
51 16 9 1 10 36 -30
52 22 r 1 9 0 -39
53 13 r 1 9 0 -48
54 2 8 1 9 36 -21
55 10 r 1 8 0 -29
56 3 r 1 8 0 -37
57 8 7 1 8 36 -9
58 34 r 1 7 0 -16
59 30 r 1 7 0 -23
60 25 r 1 7 0 -30
0 -30
61 3 r 1 7 0 -37
62 13 r 1 7 0 -44
63 9 r 1 7 0 -51
64 35 r 1 7 0 -58
65 9 r 1 7 0 -65
66 17 6 1 7 36 -36
67 2 r 1 6 0 -42
68 5 5 1 6 36 -12
69 23
70 7
71 4
72 28
73 5
74 18
75 16
76 17


Very soon i will start the KTF journey

Im going to be conservative

+20 end session

My local casino is close and i have many airball machines. Take my time....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Apr 05, 06:42 AM 2016
Notto, no clouds on your sky....

I'm wonder how many times did Winkel get itchy fingers to make a comment here!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 05, 07:26 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 05, 06:34 AM 2016
From the previous 100 games where we use +1/-1, if we are going to flat bet then take the 1st positive to br, past experiance would tell one to take the very 1st positive then reset or move to another table.
From todays #'s we should do exactly that even if it meant giving up the next 2 wins.  If you look at the attached sheet,take the 1st positive you'd be +22.
Oh yes todays game is the 1st where its 7/10 in spins 1-10
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 28 36
2 7 35
3 28 r
4 9 34
5 32 33
6 7 r
7 25 32
8 29 31
9 4 30 stake
10 28 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 19 29 1 30 36 6
12 3 28 1 29 36 13
13 31 27 1 28 36 21
14 29 r 1 27 0 -6
15 7 r 1 27 0 -33
16 13 26 1 27 36 -24
17 24 25 1 26 36 -14
18 0 24 1 25 36 -3
19 10 23 1 24 36 9
20 20 22 1 23 0 -14
21 4 r 1 22 0 -36
22 18 21 1 22 36 -22
23 1 20 1 21 36 -7
24 28 r 1 20 0 -27
25 24 r 1 20 0 -47
26 34 19 1 20 36 -31
27 20 r 1 19 0 -50
28 18 r 1 19 0 -69
29 20 r 1 19 0 -88
30 23 18 1 19 36 -71
31 22 17 1 18 36 -53
32 31 r 1 17 0 -70
33 35 16 1 17 36 -51
34 30 15 1 16 36 -31
35 1 r 1 15 0 -46
36 11 14 1 15 36 -25
37 10 r 1 14 0 -39
38 11 r 1 14 0 -53
39 31 r 1 14 0 -67
40 36 13 1 14 36 -45
41 7 r 1 13 0 -58
42 19 r 1 13 0 -71
43 35 r 1 13 0 -84
44 6 12 1 13 36 -61
45 21 11 1 12 36 -37
46 20 r 1 11 0 -48
47 19 r 1 11 0 -59
48 7 r 1 11 0 -70
49 36 r 1 11 0 -81
50 12 10 1 11 36 -56
51 16 9 1 10 36 -30
52 22 r 1 9 0 -39
53 13 r 1 9 0 -48
54 2 8 1 9 36 -21
55 10 r 1 8 0 -29
56 3 r 1 8 0 -37
57 8 7 1 8 36 -9
58 34 r 1 7 0 -16
59 30 r 1 7 0 -23
60 25 r 1 7 0 -30
0 -30
61 3 r 1 7 0 -37
62 13 r 1 7 0 -44
63 9 r 1 7 0 -51
64 35 r 1 7 0 -58
65 9 r 1 7 0 -65
66 17 6 1 7 36 -36
67 2 r 1 6 0 -42
68 5 5 1 6 36 -12
69 23
70 7
71 4
72 28
73 5
74 18
75 16
76 17


-Notto

The first positive on todays game would be on spin 11 and would be +6.
Are you talking about the total of the three sessions on the sheet for the +22?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 07:31 AM 2016
Now the reset/move ?
On the sheet  each game has won on spin 11. Now i'd just watch till the 10 spins 11-20 are done. Now on the sheet we collect spins 21-30, on spins 31 game 3/4/16 win +9
                                   31 game 4/4/16 win +7
                                   31 game 5/4/16 win +7
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 07:33 AM 2016
I was posting Celtic, think the reply is the answer
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 05, 07:34 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 05, 07:31 AM 2016
Now the reset/move ?
On the sheet  each game has won on spin 11. Now i'd just watch till the 10 spins 11-20 are done. Now on the sheet we collect spins 21-30, on spins 31 game 3/4/16 win +9
                                   31 game 4/4/16 win +7
                                   31 game 5/4/16 win +7

Gotcha.
Thank you.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 07:43 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 05, 07:31 AM 2016
Now the reset/move ?
On the sheet  each game has won on spin 11. Now i'd just watch till the 10 spins 11-20 are done. Now on the sheet we collect spins 21-30, on spins 31 game 3/4/16 win +9
                                   31 game 4/4/16 win +7
                                   31 game 5/4/16 win +7

If you were to play flat, perhaps bet on 11th spin only.

Would be curious to see

Will go back on all your sheets this evening to see how many sheets lost on 11th spin vs won on 11th spin
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 08:44 AM 2016
The math says switching machines makes no difference

Perhaps for KTF and betting unhits it can speed things along?

Go for the positive balance on one airball machine and move to the next one. Any positive balance move along to the next one

Bet spin 11. Win. Move to the next machine

My casino has over 15 airball machines....what says you?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Apr 05, 09:16 AM 2016
Focus on increasing the odds. You said you don't care about the odds.  So i suggest understand the basics.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 10:28 AM 2016
OK, so you wait for the numbers that hit in the last ten spins, and it doesn´t matter if they´re uniques or repeats. It´s still about waiting for ten virtual losses, isn´t it? According to the Gap Test in Loothog.com the longest gap for 26 numbers in 100000 spins  is 10.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 11:10 AM 2016
One more thing notto. That one KTF bust you had can you kindly post it?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 11:28 AM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 05, 10:28 AM 2016
OK, so you wait for the numbers that hit in the last ten spins, and it doesn´t matter if they´re uniques or repeats. It´s still about waiting for ten virtual losses, isn´t it? According to the Gap Test in Loothog.com the longest gap for 26 numbers in 100000 spins  is 10.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 11:31 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 11:10 AM 2016
One more thing notto. That one KTF bust you had can you kindly post it?

Only because i want to analyze how it differs from the other 99 winning sessions

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: goldrosen on Apr 05, 11:59 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 11:31 AM 2016
Only because i want to analyze how it differs from the other 99 winning sessions

Thanks

Nottophammer already posted it many times.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 12:02 PM 2016
Quote from: goldrosen on Apr 02, 02:16 PM 2016
Of course I know this is not WTF thread, just sayin i see a lot of "this is how I would have played it" in WTF thread, but with all different starting point n WTF can make all losing sessions provided by the others into a winning one..Im not saying it is bad or what thats  just what I observed..
And yea the rules for KTF is fixed, just follow n there is no "hey guys, this is how I would have played it" happen..yes?

Wrong

You are assuming they are curve fitting. They aren't.

They are stating how they'd play based on the count

As you said, it was the WTF thread. So its based on the count. It will change on a case by case basis. Thats not KTF

Once you comprehend that you will see they aren't turning losers into winners magically.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 12:10 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 05, 11:28 AM 2016


Thanks. So it´s ten uniques afterall. You know, after reading that I realized I had used numbers from 0 to 26 as example in the previous replies, and forgot to include the zero in the gap test. So actually it´s about 27 numbers, not 26. The longest gap between 27 numbers after 100000 spins is 9! I´d run a few more tests collecting 9 spins instead of 10 to see how it performs.

Good luck.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 12:12 PM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 05, 12:10 PM 2016
Thanks. So it´s ten uniques afterall. You know, after reading that I realized I had used numbers from 0 to 26 as example in the previous replies, and forgot to include the zero in the gap test. So actually it´s about 27 numbers, not 26. The longest gap between 27 numbers after 100000 spins is 9! I´d run a few more tests collecting 9 spins instead of 10 to see how it performs.

Good luck.

Psimones. Meaning same rules but begin after 9 spins vs 10?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 12:29 PM 2016
Erm, thinking about it, it doesn´t make much sense. Of course the longest gap will be shorter if you keep adding more numbers. Example: longest gap between 37 numbers? There´ll be no gap, of course. This is how variance works. To reduce variance just bet on more numbers each time . There´s a price to pay. Everybody knows that if you bet say two dozens at a time (24 numbers) the variance will be significantly shorter than if you bet only one dozen. It seems to win most of the time but when it loses, it loses big, especially when using progressions.
Collecting 9 numbers and betting 27 will apear to win more than 10/26, but at a higher price. This is quite basic.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 12:39 PM 2016
There´s something about KTF though, at least as I see it. Doing a few more gap tests. I´ll report back.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 12:45 PM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 05, 12:29 PM 2016
Erm, thinking about it, it doesn´t make much sense. Of course the longest gap will be shorter if you keep adding more numbers. Example: longest gap between 37 numbers? There´ll be no gap, of course. This is how variance works. To reduce variance just bet on more numbers each time . There´s a price to pay. Everybody knows that if you bet say two dozens at a time (24 numbers) the variance will be significantly shorter than if you bet only one dozen. It seems to win most of the time but when it loses, it loses big, especially when using progressions.
Collecting 9 numbers and betting 27 will apear to win more than 10/26, but at a higher price. This is quite basic.
sorry for my ignorance, but as soon as i see the maths quotes you lose me.
But glad you are testing
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 01:28 PM 2016
Well it just looks complicated. In fact it´s so simple it´s like common sense. Just give it a try.

You need to collect a certain number of uniques which you´ll bet against in the next spin. Which means you´ll bet all the numbers on the carpet but those. OK.

The numbers you will bet for, in one spin, must have a respective longest gap in 100000 spins (a large number, the so-called "long-run") that is equal to the number of the uniques collected. In other words, the total of the numbers you will bet for in one spin and the longest gap between them must be 37.




Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 01:41 PM 2016
Does anyone think flat betting 11th spin only and switching terminals has any merit?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 01:42 PM 2016
Correction: the "longest gap" as defined by Loothog is slightly confusing:

Note: The gap is how many spins you would have to play in order to hit your number.
For example:
You are tracking 3 and the numbers up are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7
The smallest gap is 3, consisting of numbers 1,2,3
The longest gap is 4, consisting of numbers 4,5,6,7

Does anyone make any sense of the above?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 01:44 PM 2016
i'm too long in the tooth now to worry about the math.
All i was trying for was something simple and whats simpler than playing non-hit of the mat/wheel.
Today i was asked why do i mark the numbers, i said it's all about 0x's then 1x's and then >1x's, comment, lost me.
So quick explanation, showed him the wheel, asked what do you see, get the usual daft answers, so i said this is controversial, you see 37 pockets and they are all due, these 0x's become 1x's and the 0x's are the larger group, so they should be favorite to come in, wow, something twigged, unlike some on here, do a MR J lol.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 01:46 PM 2016
 psimoes
Go on then, i listen, you never know
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 01:56 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 01:41 PM 2016
Does anyone think flat betting 11th spin only and switching terminals has any merit?

RG i seldom look at links,but in the avg doc betting for the 11th non-hit has hit 1st spin 79 out of 101 games. Would it be better going for the 11th non-hit instead of just spin 11
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 02:00 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 05, 01:56 PM 2016
RG i seldom look at links,but in the avg doc betting for the 11th non-hit has hit 1st spin 79 out of 101 games. Would it be better going for the 11th non-hit instead of just spin 11

Thanks notto

I will download excel viewer to view
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 02:34 PM 2016
Notto, your reasoning makes sense. There are always more unique numbers that won´t repeat any sooner. The problem is you´re therefore betting on too many numbers. A loss and it gets difficult to recover.

I explaned how I see this method on post #244 IIRC.

I got the Loothog definition now: when they say the longest gap between two winning numbers is say 14, there were in fact 13 losing numbers between them. They count the second winning number as a gap (confusing). So when they say 22 it´s 21, when they say 10 it´s 9 and so on. Which means the numbers to bet for plus their longest gap must total 37+1.

So 27 + 10 = 37 : still one wheel pocket short.




Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 02:49 PM 2016
Ooops. Got caught by the law of large numbers again. Ran more tests. No longest gap big enough to totalize the 37+1. Sorry friend, this won´t work. It´ll succumb to the house edge.  :(
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 03:07 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 05, 01:56 PM 2016
RG i seldom look at links,but in the avg doc betting for the 11th non-hit has hit 1st spin 79 out of 101 games. Would it be better going for the 11th non-hit instead of just spin 11

The one ktf bust you did have, what was different from the others? Besides the repeats. Any red flags to check for?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 03:20 PM 2016
@ Nottophammer

Maybe my conclusions were premature. Wait 6 uniques and bet 31 against. Try that. Flat bet.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 05, 03:47 PM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 05, 03:20 PM 2016
@ Nottophammer

Maybe my conclusions were premature. Wait 6 uniques and bet 31 against. Try that. Flat bet.
@psimoes

One bet and stop or start betting with KTF rules? Just curious..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 03:52 PM 2016
This doesn´t foresee what happens if you bet on a rolling basis. There are of course the back to back repeaters. If you´re supposed to win right on the first spin then all the numbers hitting would have to be unique. Need coffee. As I see it, if the simulations for what they´re worth were done right, there should be "one terrible loss"every 100000 spins. But if you stumble on an early repeater, you should recover six spins later.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 03:56 PM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Apr 05, 03:47 PM 2016
@psimoes

One bet and stop or start betting with KTF rules? Just curious..

Bet and stop I´d say. The other KTF rules seem arbitrary IMHO.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 05, 04:00 PM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 05, 03:52 PM 2016
This doesn´t foresee what happens if you bet on a rolling basis. There are of course the back to back repeaters. If you´re supposed to win right on the first spin then all the numbers hitting would have to be unique. Need coffee. As I see it, if the simulations for what they´re worth were done right, there should be "one terrible loss"every 100000 spins. But if you stumble on an early repeater, you should recover six spins later.
Isn't it recover 5 spins later?
6+7+8+9+10=40
Maybe I also need coffee  :wink:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 04:06 PM 2016
So your saying wait until theres 6 numbers unique that have NOT repeated. Then bet the remaining numbers. One time. ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 04:16 PM 2016
 psimoes
Did you look at the attachment in reply 856, know idea where this 6 uniques come from.
Repeats is the other topic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 04:20 PM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Apr 05, 04:00 PM 2016
Isn't it recover 5 spins later?
6+7+8+9+10=40
Maybe I also need coffee  :wink:
Yeah something like that LOL.
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 04:06 PM 2016
So your saying wait until theres 6 numbers unique that have NOT repeated. Then bet the remaining numbers. One time. ?
Yep

This is  fascinating. According to the simulations, the longest gap for 35 numbers is 5 exceeding the total of 38 by 2. So, does this mean if you wait for 4 uniques then bet 38 against the last two you´ll actually have an edge over the house in the course of 100000 spins? WOW...

Test ppl, test

Edit - corrected the numbers.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 04:24 PM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 05, 04:20 PM 2016
Yeah something like that LOL.Yep

This is  fascinating. According to the simulations, the longest gap for 35 numbers is 5 exceeding the total of 38 by 2. So, does this mean if you wait for 5 uniques then bet 38 against the last three you´ll actually have an edge over the house in the course of 100000 spins? WOW...

Test ppl, test

If thats the case start another thread

1) that'd be fascinating
2) lets respect ktf

I will test
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 04:29 PM 2016
Attention, I edited my post: bet wait 4 uniques, bet agains the last 2.


Yeah its at the verge of hijacking the thread. Better start a new one.

@Notto yes I read the attachment. See my reply in post #822. That´s my reasonings.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 05, 04:30 PM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 05, 03:56 PM 2016
Bet and stop I´d say. The other KTF rules seem arbitrary IMHO.

-psimoes

I was not aware that there was more than one set of KTF rules.

The Websters dictionary defines arbitrary as meaning "random and without thought."

I do not believe that since KTF has evolved that this is true.
Notto, and a few others, put a lot of thought, and testing behind the initial framework and subsequent tweaks to get it to the point it is at today.

And remember those arbitrary rules are the ones that won 99 out of 100 sessions.

If there is a better set of rules would you please post them for us?

-Celtic

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 04:38 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 05, 04:30 PM 2016
-psimoes

I was not aware that there was more than one set of KTF rules.

The Websters dictionary defines arbitrary as meaning "random and without thought."

I do not believe that since KTF has evolved that this is true.
Notto, and a few others, put a lot of thought, and testing behind the initial framework and subsequent tweaks to get it to the point it is at today.

And remember those arbitrary rules are the ones that won 99 out of 100 sessions.

If there is a better set of rules would you please post them for us?

-Celtic

I want to physically see that 1 out of 100 one. Celtic can you point me to it?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 05, 04:43 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 04:38 PM 2016
I want to physically see that 1 out of 100 one. Celtic can you point me to it?

-Celtic

I am still looking for it myself.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 04:44 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 05, 04:43 PM 2016
-Celtic

I am still looking for it myself.

-Celtic

Thx. I want to see what separates it
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 04:53 PM 2016
Here it is 22.1.16
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 05, 04:54 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 05, 04:53 PM 2016
Here it is 22.1.16

Thank you Notto

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 05, 05:02 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 04:44 PM 2016
Thx. I want to see what separates it

-RG

Look at post #69 in the Jackpot Joy thread.

FYI - That was just before this KTF thread was started.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 05:02 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 05, 04:30 PM 2016
-psimoes

I was not aware that there was more than one set of KTF rules.

The Websters dictionary defines arbitrary as meaning "random and without thought."

I do not believe that since KTF has evolved that this is true.
Notto, and a few others, put a lot of thought, and testing behind the initial framework and subsequent tweaks to get it to the point it is at today.

And remember those arbitrary rules are the ones that won 99 out of 100 sessions.

If there is a better set of rules would you please post them for us?

-Celtic
I´m referring to the +1/-1 progression and the other rules you posted. As I believe flat betting would do well,  all the rest seems to rely on luck.
Mind, I said "arbitrary" because it doesn´t seem to follow the logic I´m seeing in KTF. So, "arbitrary" like in "gambling". So, to eliminate as much risk as possible, I look for more math and less gambling and all that. It´s just my opinion.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 05:11 PM 2016
Can't put this more plainly, if you going to use KTF and flat bet, take the 1st time you make any profit. Be there, then gone.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 05, 05:12 PM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 05, 05:02 PM 2016
I´m referring to the +1/-1 progression and the other rules you posted. As I believe flat betting would do well,  all the rest seems to rely on luck.
Mind, I said "arbitrary" because it doesn´t seem to follow the logic I´m seeing in KTF. So, "arbitrary" like in "gambling". So, to eliminate as much risk as possible, I look for more math and less gambling and all that. It´s just my opinion.

-psimoes

You have to admit that it's one helluva lot of luck to win 99 out of 100 games :wink:

When you come up with another set of rules we can follow step by step, like the existing ones, please post them for us.

Thank you for clearing this up.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 05:16 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 05, 05:12 PM 2016
-psimoes

You have to admit that it's one helluva lot of luck to win 99 out of 100 games :wink:
When you come up with another set we can follow step by step, like the existing ones, please post them for us.

Thank you for clearing this up.

-Celic

This is what intrigues me about ktf

1 out of 100. Thats just awesome

This is the only game the 400 stoploss was reached?

99 games. 40 win goal. +3960. 1 loss -400
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 05:19 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 05, 05:12 PM 2016
-psimoes

You have to admit that it's one helluva lot of luck to win 99 out of 100 games :wink:
When you come up with another set we can follow step by step, like the existing ones, please post them for us.

Thank you for clearing this up.

-Celic


No problem.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 05, 05:20 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 05, 05:11 PM 2016
Can't put this more plainly, if you going to use KTF and flat bet, take the 1st time you make any profit. Be there, then gone.

Yes, I believe it´s the best thing to do.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 05:21 PM 2016
Notto. On the 99 winning games and 1 losing game was a 400 stoploss used? I know ive asked before sorry
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 05, 05:28 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 05:16 PM 2016
This is what intrigues me about ktf

1 out of 100. Thats just awesome

This is the only game the 400 stoploss was reached?

99 games. 40 win goal. +3960. 1 loss -400

-RG

No there are a few.
I thought you said yoiu were going to read all the pages of this thread.

Check post 648.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 05, 05:37 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 05, 05:28 PM 2016
-RG

No there are a few.
I thought you said yoiu were going to read all the pages of this thread.

Check post 648.

-Celtic

thank you

i just read it

wow what a roller coaster that was

the only difference id make is aborting after 1 win

1 win per airball machine. use the history board for my 10 number reference. go in immediately. once im positive at ALL even if its $6 next machine

the ONLY difference i make to the KTF rules is the win goal being lower. less exposure and move on
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 06:43 PM 2016
Are you playing random #’s with KTF? To me no. Why. Like in GUT we start with 37 #’s, they are all unique at that moment. As the 0x’s become 1x’s and reduces in number, what says the 0x’s are random #’s, when we are playing unique 0x’s, they are not just say 20 randomly picked #’s.
Have you ever checked the 0x’s in KTF, let’s look at the 14th 0x. Because the games are always played the same, the information that’s collected is the same for each game. So at present time the 14th 0x averages to come in within 2spins and has a max of 4spins in 100 recorded games.
Would the results in the average document be the same for 24 randomly picked #’s? Let’s say you pick dozen1 & 2, are these a random 24#’s, unlike the 24 #'s we’d be betting in KTF for the 14th 0x which have been reduced from 37 unique #’s.

Whats the answer?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Apr 06, 01:21 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 05, 06:43 PM 2016
Would the results in the average document be the same for 24 randomly picked #’s?

"Of course not!" - would say cousin from some old TV show.

Of course not, should say everyone that can read!
I mean, you are giving so many Facts!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 06, 01:36 AM 2016
I´d say No. The stats can be valid for individual numbers and not for a static set of numbers. But random flow is fractal so something alike could probably be devised on another scale for single dozens.

It´s fascinating that the 0xs in the last 37 spins might have been the 4xs in the previous.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 05:18 AM 2016
psimoes
This is why i disregard the maths. Althou i'll except the formula works, otherwise how would man have got to the moon, know distance to moon, etc,etc.
A few posts back Denzie asked about a number hitting twice, math came up with every 1,000 odd spins. Well look at todays #'s,i've marked with X.
By the way a hard trot/count but +1/-1 got KTF to +77.
jackpotjoy 6.4.16
1 10
2 8
3 35
4 5
5 2
6 6
7 10
8 2
9 33
10 32
11 1
12 8 X
13 8 X
14 6
15 23
16 5
17 3 X
18 3 X
19 17
20 22
21 30
22 27
23 20
24 31
25 33
26 36
27 16
28 5
29 26
30 10
31 21
32 7
33 6 X
34 6 X
35 29
36 3
37 18
38 28
39 16
40 28
41 0
42 8
43 23
44 12
45 9
46 24
47 11
48 18
49 4
50 26
51 27
52 21
53 23
54 13
55 19
56 33
57 30
58 4
59 22
60 10

61 0
62 13
63 7
64 1
65 8
66 27
67 34
68 17
69 14
70 10
71 23
72 4
73 22
74 9
75 4
76 1
77 10
78 19
79 26
80 20
81 14
82 9 X
83 9 X

Oh yeah useless piece of info,but the compare on the show informed us that #9 is hot, has been out 12 times in 300 spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 05:26 AM 2016
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16738.msg149856#msg149856

Reply 3, look who gave this figure :lol:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 05:51 AM 2016
LOL aside,Turners okay, so are Mr j and General, just dont necessarily have to agree with their answers.
But you can see if math says
Its not 1/37 at all

Its 1/37 x 1/37

Once ever 1370 spins 
you'd never get anywhere.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 06, 05:55 AM 2016
It´s one every 37 spins. One every thousand and so spins is the probability of specific number, not any of the 37, of hitting back to back. That trot is just deviation at work.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 06:10 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 05, 07:31 AM 2016
Now the reset/move ?
On the sheet  each game has won on spin 11. Now i'd just watch till the 10 spins 11-20 are done. Now on the sheet we collect spins 21-30, on spins 31 game 3/4/16 win +9
                                   31 game 4/4/16 win +7
                                   31 game 5/4/16 win +7
I said to celticknits i was not going to be putting sheets up much more as i have the 100 games in the average doc, and its still growing.
But as flat bet has come up on KTF i've still got some interest in the subject, Mr J i could not careless if KTF just fades away, some will have found the topic helpfull, some not.

To todays sheet, i said a few posts back if flat bet take the 1st + to the BR.
So spins 1-10 tells us the bet on spin 11 is 29 units, win +7, now just watch. Now we wait and see what spins 21-30 give, bet on spin 31 27 units, win +9, spin 51 look back to spins 41-50 again bet 27 units, win +9.
Just away to flat bet.
Thank you for your time, good luck.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 06:12 AM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 06, 05:55 AM 2016
It´s one every 37 spins. One every thousand and so spins is the probability of specific number, not any of the 37, of hitting back to back. That trot is just deviation at work.

Thanks for the post but i dont bother with the math, if i listen to the math, i'd give up roulette as the cant win so you cant win brigade would win.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 06, 06:23 AM 2016
Hence why I don´t play for real anymore. I´m down 60 units and can´t play VB where I am.

BTW what´s your net profit with KTF?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 06:28 AM 2016
Date       win lose total
22.12.15 62
23.12.15 56
24.12.15 93
27.12.15 57
28.12.15 52
29.12.15 45
30.12.15 50
31.12.15 50
02.01.16 56
03.01.16 65
04.01.16 57
05.01.16 45
06.01.16 51
07.01.16 50
08.01.16 59
09.01.16 45
10.01.16 47
11.01.16 49
12.01.16 51
13.01.16 50
14.01.16 59
15.01.16 45
16.01.16 45
17.01.16 50
18.01.16 45
19.01.16 38
20.01.16 43
21.01.16 45 1398
22.01.16 655
23.01.16 52
24.01.16 50
25.01.16 38
26.01.16 50
27.01.16 38
28.01.16 57
29.01.16 48
30.01.16 54
31.01.16 56
01.02.16 46
02.02.16 51
03.02.16 45
04.02.16 54
05.02.16 46
06.02.16 39
07.02.16 45
08.02.16 42
09.02.16 44
10.02.16 53
11.02.16 34
12.02.16 38
13.02.16 47
14.02.16 45
15.02.16 50
16.02.16 59
17.02.16 45
18.02.16 56
19.02.16 29
20.02.16 59
21.02.16 45
22.02.16 66
23.02.16 38
24.02.16 51
25.02.16 53
26.02.16 57
27.02.16 50
28.02.16 53
29.02.16 44
01.03.16 52
02.03.16 53
03.03.16 63
04.03.16 45
05.03.16 50
06.03.16 51
07.03.16 41
08.03.16 49
09.03.16 45
10.03.16 47
11.03.16 53
12.03.16 79
13.03.16 66
14.03.16 46
15.03.16 42
16.03.16 43
17.03.16 41
18.03.16 40
19.03.16 50
20.03.16 53
21.03.16 41
22.03.16 42
23.03.16 50
24.03.16 47
25.03.16 75
26.03.16 50
27.03.16 43
28.03.16 47
29.03.16 48
30.03.16 79
31.03.16 59
02.04.16 51
03.04.04 49
04.04.16 49
05.04.16 44







        5070   655 4415
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 06, 06:41 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 06, 06:10 AM 2016
I said to celticknits i was not going to be putting sheets up much more as i have the 100 games in the average doc, and its still growing.
...
I think I speak for more than me when I say that it is really good that you are adding sheets and all that information. I always learn something.

I'm also doing my own sheet after your numbers so for me I always learn something new when comparing with yours.

So for me just sending them up!! I like them alot!
Thanks!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 06, 09:07 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 06, 06:10 AM 2016
I said to celticknits i was not going to be putting sheets up much more as i have the 100 games in the average doc, and its still growing.

I will miss these sheets when they stop coming.


But as flat bet has come up on KTF i've still got some interest in the subject, Mr J i could not careless if KTF just fades away, some will have found the topic helpfull, some not.

If it was not for Your KTF, and the WTF Repeats spin-off, I can honestly say that I would not be playing roulette and would just have gone back to playing Blackjack.

To todays sheet, i said a few posts back if flat bet take the 1st + to the BR.
So spins 1-10 tells us the bet on spin 11 is 29 units, win +7, now just watch. Now we wait and see what spins 21-30 give, bet on spin 31 27 units, win +9, spin 51 look back to spins 41-50 again bet 27 units, win +9.
Just away to flat bet.
Thank you for your time, good luck.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 06, 09:11 AM 2016
-Notto

Forgetting the disaster on January 22, can you tell me what the largest drawdown was on the 99 winning games, and point me to which game that was?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 09:16 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 06, 09:11 AM 2016
-Notto

Forgetting the disaster on January 22, can you tell me what the largest drawdown was on the 99 winning games, and point me to which game that was?

-Celtic

Literally just PMed him that

I want to know when i should or shouldnt stop
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 09:36 AM 2016
psimoes
This is why you should practice, gain knowledge from GUT.  Your interested in willie hill game, its on FOBT, RNG.

What happens, open the screen theres the marquee, never played this machine, theres 16#'s, nice, why, because even thou we dont know when this mickey mouse roulette was last spun, those 16#'s, dare i say it, past spins are to be watched in my spins 1-10.
You should see 18, why, the 16#'s which has 1 repeat,has not repeated, so lost, now bet the 19#'s win, i should have chipped up but just flat bet,so a small loss. Rebet the 19, lose, anyway you can see i keep flat betting and stop on 10th spin +3.00 for .25p units. You can see i win on the #2 as its part of the 19#'s, but not of the 16#'s from the marque.
The win on #11 says to me the marquee #'s should still hit, they do.

Now as mrs notto is in the dentist i dont want to get to envolved in the game,so its just watch, using Gut. spins 1-10 9 non-hit, so at spin 39/40 could be 24 non-hit, thats the average 15 in 30 spins, write countback in, we're ready to do battle with the RNG.
Just watch, 5 non-hit on the bounce so this is fast trot, what showed at 13th spin, 12 non-hits have come, so 25-11-1, its now 23-13-1,  the >1x's need to rise,to do this we need a 1x to repeat, so dont just bet the 1x's bet all 1x+>1x, 14 units we win.
Just watch, look another repeat the 1x's have come, but we are just watching, we end spins 11-20 8,+3, do you know what +3 means?
25th spin not far off, at 24th spin we've had 3 non-hit so trot is still fast, its already past 18/19-14/15 - 03/05, so i bet the 20,1x's lose, rebet the 21,1x's which really is 1x+>1x, chipped up as well,win, rebet the 21 and -1 the units, win.

+14.75 for .25p units.

conclusion study GUT, 12 unique, 12unique in Xspins oh yes and LOTT, and forget the maths,it just holds you back.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 09:38 AM 2016
Just seen the replies, i'll have to do it later as off out, run about day
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 06, 09:43 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 09:16 AM 2016
Literally just PMed him that

I want to know when i should or shouldnt stop

-RG

If I was to play KTF instead of Repeats I would use that figure as the required BR.

The one thing that has surprised me since starting to play roulette in January of this year are the number of players that are underfunded and when they lose start to run down strategies like KTF because they lose.   Hey, it's gambling and you are going to lose at some point but as long as you win more than you lose who cares.

I think that Notto has more than shown that KTF works just fine the way it is with a $400 BR but if you wanted to win ALL of those 99 games you would have needed a bigger BR and for me that would have been the current largest loss plus the value of the next bet to continue.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 09:53 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 06, 09:43 AM 2016
-RG

If I was to play KTF instead of Repeats I would use that figure as the required BR.

The one thing that has surprised me since starting to play roulette in January of this year are the number of players that are underfunded and when they lose start to run down strategies like KTF because they lose.   Hey, it's gambling and you are going to lose at some point but as long as you win more than you lose who cares.

I think that Notto has more than shown that KTF works just fine the way it is with a $400 BR but if you wanted to win ALL of those 99 games you would have needed a bigger BR and for me that would have been the current largest loss plus the value of the next bet to continue.

-Celtic

Thats the figure i want to know. Largest drawdown on winning games. Thats the stoploss i want to use

Rich
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 06, 11:04 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 06, 09:36 AM 2016
psimoes
This is why you should practice, gain knowledge from GUT.  Your interested in willie hill game, its on FOBT, RNG.

What happens, open the screen theres the marquee, never played this machine, theres 16#'s, nice, why, because even thou we dont know when this mickey mouse roulette was last spun, those 16#'s, dare i say it, past spins are to be watched in my spins 1-10.
You should see 18, why, the 16#'s which has 1 repeat,has not repeated, so lost, now bet the 19#'s win, i should have chipped up but just flat bet,so a small loss. Rebet the 19, lose, anyway you can see i keep flat betting and stop on 10th spin +3.00 for .25p units. You can see i win on the #2 as its part of the 19#'s, but not of the 16#'s from the marque.
The win on #11 says to me the marquee #'s should still hit, they do.

Now as mrs notto is in the dentist i dont want to get to envolved in the game,so its just watch, using Gut. spins 1-10 9 non-hit, so at spin 39/40 could be 24 non-hit, thats the average 15 in 30 spins, write countback in, we're ready to do battle with the RNG.
Just watch, 5 non-hit on the bounce so this is fast trot, what showed at 13th spin, 12 non-hits have come, so 25-11-1, its now 23-13-1,  the >1x's need to rise,to do this we need a 1x to repeat, so dont just bet the 1x's bet all 1x+>1x, 14 units we win.
Just watch, look another repeat the 1x's have come, but we are just watching, we end spins 11-20 8,+3, do you know what +3 means?
25th spin not far off, at 24th spin we've had 3 non-hit so trot is still fast, its already past 18/19-14/15 - 03/05, so i bet the 20,1x's lose, rebet the 21,1x's which really is 1x+>1x, chipped up as well,win, rebet the 21 and -1 the units, win.

+14.75 for .25p units.

conclusion study GUT, 12 unique, 12unique in Xspins oh yes and LOTT, and forget the maths,it just holds you back.

Tried to read the GUT thread once, too many pages full of garbage from other posters, the signal to noise ratio in that thread is rather poor. But I´ve seen your records from KTF and let me tell you that´s impressive. If KTF is based on GUT I´ll try again to read it.
Although I don´t play anymore I always come back to the forum for useful info.
Good luck :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 06, 11:28 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 06, 09:43 AM 2016
-RG

If I was to play KTF instead of Repeats I would use that figure as the required BR.

The one thing that has surprised me since starting to play roulette in January of this year are the number of players that are underfunded and when they lose start to run down strategies like KTF because they lose.   Hey, it's gambling and you are going to lose at some point but as long as you win more than you lose who cares.

I think that Notto has more than shown that KTF works just fine the way it is with a $400 BR but if you wanted to win ALL of those 99 games you would have needed a bigger BR and for me that would have been the current largest loss plus the value of the next bet to continue.

-Celtic

I started playing in 2013 and for a few months never lost any session! Then it  went on a rollercoaster losing and never fully recovering. I should have stopped when I broke even. In the end I decided to take the small loss and stopped for good. It all looked like the methods tested on Roulette Xtreme. All systems can be Holy Graals in the beginning but after a few hundreds of spins they all go down.

I use to play Roulette Royale with my cell phone. Initial bank roll is 5000. But there´s no table limit. My BR went up to five million once, but that´s because I kept increasing the wages, up to 10 000 per single number. The thing is the drawdowns increase as well, down to the initial bank roll.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 11:32 AM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 06, 11:28 AM 2016
I started playing in 2013 and for a few months never lost any session! Then it  went on a rollercoaster losing and never fully recovering. I should have stopped when I broke even. In the end I decided to take the small loss and stopped for good. It all looked like the methods tested on Roulette Xtreme. All systems can be Holy Graals in the beginning but after a few hundreds of spins they all go down.

I use to play Roulette Royale with my cell phone. Initial bank roll is 5000. But there´s no table limit. My BR went up to five million once, but that´s because I kept increasing the wages, up to 10 000 per single number. The thing is the drawdowns increase as well, down to the initial bank roll.

Ask yourself this: why do most methods do very well then tank after 100 spins. Lets figure that out. Or maybe switch methods after every win

But KTF seems to be special...nottos results really cant be disputed?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 06, 11:54 AM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 06, 11:04 AM 2016
....................................If KTF is based on GUT I´ll try again to read it. ......................

-psimoes

Look at Nottos post 916.
He states: ..... conclusion study GUT, 12 unique, 12unique in Xspins oh yes and LOTT, and forget the maths,it just holds you back.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 06, 12:00 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 11:32 AM 2016
Ask yourself this: why do most methods do very well then tank after 100 spins. Lets figure that out. Or maybe switch methods after every win

But KTF seems to be special...nottos results really cant be disputed?
That´s the million dollar question and I suspect the answer is one million dollars minus 2.7%...

Really wish KTF all the best. Cause I might start playing for real again you never know.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 06, 12:06 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 06, 11:54 AM 2016
-psimoes

Look at Nottos post 916.
He states: ..... conclusion study GUT, 12 unique, 12unique in Xspins oh yes and LOTT, and forget the maths,it just holds you back.

-Celtic

The irony is KTF´s principle is all about math! Flawed or not and hope not, it´s still math.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 12:07 PM 2016
Draw downs 25.3.16
Lot of work going over old sheets, this one is recent,even found a mistake, turns out better. What you have to remember is theres early wins for less than 50/60, take +20, then next bet you are -4, then next spin back to +20, do you stop, if later and you've hit a 3 figure loss and then you start to come back towards a positive, then the next spin makes you plus more than the previous high of +20, do you stop.
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 13 36
2 33 35
3 5 34
4 6 33
5 13 r
6 18 32
7 25 31
8 17 30
9 11 29 stake
10 22 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 7 27 1 28 36 8
12 5 r 1 27 0 -19
13 0 26 2 54 72 -1
14 30 25 1 26 36 9
15 14 24 1 25 36 20
16 0 r 1 24 0 -4
17 34 23 2 48 72 20
18 6 r 1 23 0 -3
19 7 r 2 46 0 -49
20 33 r 3 69 0 -118
21 32 22 4 92 144 -66
22 35 21 3 66 108 -24
23 2 20 2 42 72 6
24 16 19 1 20 36 22
25 22 r 1 19 0 3
26 22 r 2 38 0 -35
27 6 r 3 57 0 -92
28 5 r 4 76 0 -168
29 36 18 5 95 180 -83
30 6 r 4 72 0 -155
31 8 17 5 90 180 -65
32 33 r 4 68 0 -133
33 31 16 5 85 180 -38
34 30 r 4 64 0 -102
35 25 r 5 80 0 -182
36 14 r 6 96 0 -278
37 18 r 7 112 0 -390
38 6 r 8 128 0 -518
39 1 15 9 144 324 -338
40 35 r 8 120 0 -458
41 6 r 9 135 0 -593
42 9 14 10 150 360 -383
43 30 r 9 126 0 -509
44 22 r 10 140 0 -649
45 29 13 11 154 396 -407
46 12 12 10 130 360 -177
47 21 11 9 108 324 39
48 22 r 8 88 0 -49
49 14 r 9 99 0 -148
50 10 10 10 110 360 102
51 7
52 31
53 10
54 31
55 31
56 26
57 24
58 28
59 19
60 5

61 25
62 7
63 20
64 11
65 35
66 27
67 25
68 1
69 28
70 26

the mistake i made the win at spin 47, 10 units, when it was 9, still good enough to stop, but like you see if you KTF its +102, but would you go there, me, a big no, take the 39, or better still take the +20, second time around
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 12:09 PM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 06, 12:06 PM 2016
The irony is KTF´s principle is all about math! Flawed or not and hope not, it´s still math.

Yes, average
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 06, 12:28 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 06, 12:07 PM 2016
Draw downs 25.3.16
Lot of work going over old sheets, this one is recent,even found a mistake, turns out better. What you have to remember is theres early wins for less than 50/60, take +20, then next bet you are -4, then next spin back to +20, do you stop, if later and you've hit a 3 figure loss and then you start to come back towards a positive, then the next spin makes you plus more than the previous high of +20, do you stop.
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 13 36
2 33 35
3 5 34
4 6 33
5 13 r
6 18 32
7 25 31
8 17 30
9 11 29 stake
10 22 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 7 27 1 28 36 8
12 5 r 1 27 0 -19
13 0 26 2 54 72 -1
14 30 25 1 26 36 9
15 14 24 1 25 36 20
16 0 r 1 24 0 -4
17 34 23 2 48 72 20
18 6 r 1 23 0 -3
19 7 r 2 46 0 -49
20 33 r 3 69 0 -118
21 32 22 4 92 144 -66
22 35 21 3 66 108 -24
23 2 20 2 42 72 6
24 16 19 1 20 36 22
25 22 r 1 19 0 3
26 22 r 2 38 0 -35
27 6 r 3 57 0 -92
28 5 r 4 76 0 -168
29 36 18 5 95 180 -83
30 6 r 4 72 0 -155
31 8 17 5 90 180 -65
32 33 r 4 68 0 -133
33 31 16 5 85 180 -38
34 30 r 4 64 0 -102
35 25 r 5 80 0 -182
36 14 r 6 96 0 -278
37 18 r 7 112 0 -390
38 6 r 8 128 0 -518
39 1 15 9 144 324 -338
40 35 r 8 120 0 -458
41 6 r 9 135 0 -593
42 9 14 10 150 360 -383
43 30 r 9 126 0 -509
44 22 r 10 140 0 -649
45 29 13 11 154 396 -407
46 12 12 10 130 360 -177
47 21 11 9 108 324 39
48 22 r 8 88 0 -49
49 14 r 9 99 0 -148
50 10 10 10 110 360 102
51 7
52 31
53 10
54 31
55 31
56 26
57 24
58 28
59 19
60 5

61 25
62 7
63 20
64 11
65 35
66 27
67 25
68 1
69 28
70 26

the mistake i made the win at spin 47, 10 units, when it was 9, still good enough to stop, but like you see if you KTF its +102, but would you go there, me, a big no, take the 39, or better still take the +20, second time around

-Notto

Thank you very much.
I think a $800 BR should cover it.
In this example I would have quit at spin 23 because I would have already been sitting there for approx. 45 minutes or so and it is time to go.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 12:50 PM 2016
Look spin 16  +36  spin 34 +39  stopped with 36 if you KTF at spin 48 +238 but you do not want to be there take the earlier win
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 34 36
2 4 35 j247 6.2.16
3 0 34
4 7 33
5 34 r
6 25 32
7 23 31
8 22 30
9 6 29 stake
10 9 28 non-hit return
11 27 27 1 28 36 8
12 3 26 1 27 36 17
13 11 25 1 26 36 27
14 11 r 1 25 0 2
15 13 24 2 50 72 24
16 17 23 1 24 36 36
17 3 r 1 23 0 13
18 34 r 2 46 0 -33
19 4 r 3 69 0 -102
20 16 22 4 92 144 -50
21 17 r 3 66 0 -116
22 21 21 4 88 144 -60
23 18 20 3 63 108 -15
24 7 r 2 40 0 -55
25 3 r 3 60 0 -115
26 32 19 4 80 144 -51
27 5 18 3 57 108 0
28 34 r 2 36 0 -36
29 17 r 3 54 0 -90
30 19 17 4 72 144 -18
31 3 r 3 51 0 -69
32 10 16 4 68 144 7
33 17 r 3 48 0 -41
34 30 15 4 64 144 39
35 23 r 3 45 0 -6
36 21 r 4 60 0 -66
37 18 r 5 75 0 -141
38 4 r 6 90 0 -231
39 3 r 7 105 0 -336
40 3 r 8 120 0 -456
41 8 14 9 135 324 -267
42 14 13 8 112 288 -91
43 16 r 7 91 0 -182
44 33 12 8 104 288 2
45 17 r 7 84 0 -82
46 16 r 8 96 0 -178
47 26 11 9 108 324 38
48 24 10 8 88 288 238
49 0 r 7 70 0 168
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 12:52 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 06, 12:09 PM 2016
Yes, average

Largest drawdown on winning games?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 06, 01:14 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 06, 12:50 PM 2016
Look spin 16  +36  spin 34 +39  stopped with 36 if you KTF at spin 48 +238 but you do not want to be there take the earlier win
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 34 36
2 4 35 j247 6.2.16
3 0 34
4 7 33
5 34 r
6 25 32
7 23 31
8 22 30
9 6 29 stake
10 9 28 non-hit return
11 27 27 1 28 36 8
12 3 26 1 27 36 17
13 11 25 1 26 36 27
14 11 r 1 25 0 2
15 13 24 2 50 72 24
16 17 23 1 24 36 36
17 3 r 1 23 0 13
18 34 r 2 46 0 -33
19 4 r 3 69 0 -102
20 16 22 4 92 144 -50
21 17 r 3 66 0 -116
22 21 21 4 88 144 -60
23 18 20 3 63 108 -15
24 7 r 2 40 0 -55
25 3 r 3 60 0 -115
26 32 19 4 80 144 -51
27 5 18 3 57 108 0
28 34 r 2 36 0 -36
29 17 r 3 54 0 -90
30 19 17 4 72 144 -18
31 3 r 3 51 0 -69
32 10 16 4 68 144 7
33 17 r 3 48 0 -41
34 30 15 4 64 144 39
35 23 r 3 45 0 -6
36 21 r 4 60 0 -66
37 18 r 5 75 0 -141
38 4 r 6 90 0 -231
39 3 r 7 105 0 -336
40 3 r 8 120 0 -456
41 8 14 9 135 324 -267
42 14 13 8 112 288 -91
43 16 r 7 91 0 -182
44 33 12 8 104 288 2
45 17 r 7 84 0 -82
46 16 r 8 96 0 -178
47 26 11 9 108 324 38
48 24 10 8 88 288 238
49 0 r 7 70 0 168


-Notto

Agreed spin 16 is close enough to the $40-$50 winstop for me and I would have been out of there.
Using these same numbers on an American wheel I would have been out one spin sooner because the winstop on an American wheeel is $30-40.
Had I been stupid enough, or more likely, greedy enough to continue past spin 17 I would have continued until either a break even or first + on the BR. This would have been a break even at spin 27 and about an hour of playing time.
I wonder how many would have had the discipline to quit at the break even point.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on Apr 06, 01:25 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 06, 12:50 PM 2016
Look spin 16  +36  spin 34 +39  stopped with 36 if you KTF at spin 48 +238 but you do not want to be there take the earlier win
Notto this is what people make accusations on curve fitting. All the profit loss results will be valid if there is a fixed rule for exiting the game. I get it that anyone can and are free to keep their own exit rule, but the question is what is the exit rule for your results? As an example, It could be let's say when one of the following three conditions are met.
1. Profit of 30-50 units or loss of 500-700 units
2. When the 40 spins are complete
3. When 15 non hits appear. 

Of course this is just an example but what is your exit rule for the game?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 01:26 PM 2016
Quote from: Priyanka on Apr 06, 01:25 PM 2016


Of course this is just an example but what is your exit rule for the game?

30 to 50 win goal. 400 stoploss
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 01:39 PM 2016
Heres todays #'s jackpot247. Priyanka think this meets your 3 conditions, but then i need to give some riddles
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 10 36
2 8 35
3 35 34
4 5 33
5 2 32
6 6 31
7 10 r
8 2 r
9 33 30 stake
10 32 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 1 28 1 29 36 7
12 8 r 1 28 0 -21
13 8 r 2 56 0 -77
14 6 r 3 84 0 -161
15 23 27 4 112 144 -129
16 5 r 3 81 0 -210
17 3 26 4 108 144 -174
18 3 r 3 78 0 -252
19 17 25 4 104 144 -212
20 22 24 3 75 108 -179
21 30 23 2 48 72 -155
22 27 22 1 23 36 -142
23 20 21 1 22 36 -128
24 31 20 1 21 36 -113
25 33 r 1 20 0 -133
26 36 19 2 40 72 -101
27 16 18 1 19 36 -84
28 5 r 1 18 0 -102
29 26 17 2 36 72 -66
30 10 r 1 17 0 -83
31 21 16 2 34 72 -45
32 7 15 1 16 36 -25
33 6 r 1 15 0 -40
34 6 r 2 30 0 -70
35 29 14 3 45 108 -7
36 3 r 2 28 0 -35
37 18 13 3 42 108 31
38 28 12 2 26 72 77
39 16
40 28
41 0
42 8
43 23
44 12
45 9
46 24
47 11
48 18
49 4
50 26
51 27
52 21
53 23
54 13
55 19
56 33
57 30
58 4
59 22
60 10

61 0
62 13
63 7
64 1
65 8
66 27
67 34
68 17
69 14
70 10
71 23
72 4
73 22
74 9
75 4
76 1
77 10
78 19
79 26
80 20
81 14
82 9
9
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 01:43 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 06, 01:39 PM 2016
think this meets your 3 conditions, but then i need to give some riddles


Omg. You kill me. Lol
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on Apr 06, 01:44 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 06, 01:39 PM 2016
Heres todays #'s jackpot247. Priyanka think this meets your 3 conditions.
My conditions are only examples. As there is no answer am assuming what RG posted is your exit condition.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 01:48 PM 2016
Quote from: Priyanka on Apr 06, 01:44 PM 2016
My conditions are only examples. As there is no answer am assuming what RG posted is your exit condition.

As i understand it
, its what i posted
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 01:51 PM 2016
Based on what i have seen. Notto celtic correct me if im wrong

2 banks of 400 (800 total) should be enough

By the time you bust 1 bank the 3rd bank should already be created

If the 1 in 100 holds true boy oh boy we have a good time
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 02:40 PM 2016
Yes RG
take todays game, those 3 repeats made it a nigtmare of a game, but +1/-1 handled it well, draw down got close.
The average of 5 non-hit in each block of 10 spins, well it got that average, just didn't need the cluster of repeats, that happens,but not every game.
In the average doc  theres been 103 games, 10th non-hit has 81 games its avg to hit is1.2345, now, its max is 4. Could max 4 be constant or maybe in another 81 games the max might become 5, how long is a bit of string. That piece of info has no baring in KTF thou, its just betting non-hit.
Where that info is of use is like the game i explained to Psimoes, if your going to play like that then you need all the info you can get, the biggest piece comes from understanding, here we go,GUT. Not crossings,but the trot/count.
Todays game played with a modified marty would win every non-hit, biggest repeat is going for the 34th non-hit, 12 spins, now you could handle 12 spins, but i've seen it take 38 spins on rng and thats max in 7 years of games played and recorded, this is the info you need if your going to play singles.


What would be good RG is if you could get some games from your local casino, 60 spins per game
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 06, 02:41 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 01:51 PM 2016
Based on what i have seen. Notto celtic correct me if im wrong

2 banks of 400 (800 total) should be enough

By the time you bust 1 bank the 3rd bank should already be created

If the 1 in 100 holds true boy oh boy we have a good time

-RG

This is your choice but not what I said.
In Nottos post #926 he posted the session with the largest drawdown of the 99 out of 100 winners.

I said that if I was to play KTF I would change the rules to reflect an $800 BR to play.
I got the $800 from the largest drawdown on the sheet that he posted.

I would leave all of the other rules as they are.

Not sure why you split the $800 into 2x$400 sections but oh well.
If you did split the BR you are still playing with a $400 BR per session.
If you do that you will not win 99 out of 100 games.
That was the purpose of me asking what game had the largest drawdown, aside from the January 22 fiasco.

I do not think it would be fair to expect Notto to go over all the games and tell us how many $400 BR games would have lost.
Start at page 1 and you could do this yourself.

So to summarize you would have won 99 out of the 100 games with an $800 BR and using all of the other rules as they have been stated many times.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 06, 02:46 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 06, 02:40 PM 2016
..........................................
What would be good RG is if you could get some games from your local casino, 60 spins per game

And post the numbers.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 02:50 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 06, 02:41 PM 2016
-RG

This is your choice but not what I said.
In Nottos post #926 he posted the session with the largest drawdown of the 99 out of 100 winners.

I said that if I was to play KTF I would change the rules to reflect an $800 BR to play.
I got the $800 from the largest drawdown on the sheet that he posted.

I would leave all of the other rules as they are.

Not sure why you split the $800 into 2x$400 sections but oh well.
If you did split the BR you are still playing with a $400 BR per session.
If you do that you will not win 99 out of 100 games.
That was the purpose of me asking what game had the largest drawdown, aside from the January 22 fiasco.

I do not think it would be fair to expect Notto to go over all the games and tell us how many $400 BR games would have lost.
Start at page 1 and you could do this yourself.

So to summarize you would have won 99 out of the 100 games with an $800 BR and using all of the other rules as they have been stated many times.

-Celtic

Ok. So my question has been answered

Of the winning games largest drawdown was 800

Therefore with a 400 stoploss there was more then 1 bust out of 100

Therefore we should increase the stoploss to 800

Wanna play gotta pay
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 02:52 PM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 06, 11:04 AM 2016
Tried to read the GUT thread once, too many pages full of garbage from other posters, the signal to noise ratio in that thread is rather poor. But I´ve seen your records from KTF and let me tell you that´s impressive. If KTF is based on GUT I´ll try again to read it.
Although I don´t play anymore I always come back to the forum for useful info.
Good luck :thumbsup:
Iwas just like you, i see all those pages and thought fcuk that. But it popped up again, so i thought lets have a look, well best read ever.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: 3Nine on Apr 06, 02:58 PM 2016
Thanks, RG - you just saved me a lot of reading and time. 

I'm not comfortable with risking 800 to win 40.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 03:08 PM 2016
Quote from: 3Nine on Apr 06, 02:58 PM 2016
Thanks, RG - you just saved me a lot of reading and time. 

I'm not comfortable with risking 800 to win 40.

To each their own

Large number bets arent for everyone

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 03:29 PM 2016
But. In defense, 1 out of 100 is damn good IMO

And 800 was only reached once
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: 3Nine on Apr 06, 03:30 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 03:29 PM 2016
But. In defense, 1 out of 100 is damn good IMO

And 800 was only reached once

I agree, it sounds solid. It's just not for me.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 06, 04:47 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 06, 02:52 PM 2016
Iwas just like you, i see all those pages and thought fcuk that. But it popped up again, so i thought lets have a look, well best read ever.

Theis reminds of an old system by Winkel from which I learned a lot. Twas called Win As Much As You Want. Worth a read as well.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 07, 05:22 AM 2016
+79  x marks the double
jackpotjoy 7.4.16
1 8
2 31
3 25
4 5
5 11
6 11x
7 28
8 29
9 1
10 14
11 30
12 28
13 36
14 1
15 12
16 19
17 26
18 22
19 15
20 10
21 35
22 24
23 34
24 34x
25 14
26 1
27 22
28 34
29 30
30 36
31 5
32 35
33 14
34 24
35 18
36 4
37 15
38 5
39 17
40 33
41 24
42 4
43 12
44 36
45 32
46 32x
47 25
48 14
49 2
50 24
51 19
52 1
53 0
54 33
55 32
56 11
57 0
58 26
59 30
60 4

61 11
62 4
63 35
64 22
65 24
66 19
67 1
68 28
69 4
70 5
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 07, 06:36 AM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 06, 04:47 PM 2016
Theis reminds of an old system by Winkel from which I learned a lot. Twas called Win As Much As You Want. Worth a read as well.
Psimoes

Do you still play the Win as much as you want? I tried it on DS a couple of years ago but then I didn't understand much about roulette  O0
Maybe test it again..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 07, 06:39 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 07, 05:22 AM 2016
+79  x marks the double
Thanks for the numbers. Is it on airball you these doubles?
Because I see them alot in RNG..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on Apr 07, 08:19 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 06, 03:29 PM 2016
But. In defense, 1 out of 100 is damn good IMO

And 800 was only reached once
RG - I don't mean any offence. But 1 out of 100 for a 40-800 win-loss has gone through only 5 cycles.  100 might seem a big number but consider that one loss could erase 20 wins ( am not saying that is to happen) meaning it has gone through 5 cycles and has failed in 1 cycles.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 07, 08:22 AM 2016
No offense taken. I enjoy your posts.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: psimoes on Apr 07, 12:43 PM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Apr 07, 06:36 AM 2016
Psimoes

Do you still play the Win as much as you want? I tried it on DS a couple of years ago but then I didn't understand much about roulette  O0
Maybe test it again..

Never played it until recently. It taught me about the cyclic nature of hot and cold numbers. And how to win with a bankroll to match the table limits. That´s how I won the 130000 at rouletteplayers.org. Took advantage of the maximum bets of 500 per individual numbers at the time. Now with the limits at 100 I´m the last on the leaderboard. And also because of testing new betting methods there. eh
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 07, 02:13 PM 2016
Quote from: psimoes on Apr 07, 12:43 PM 2016
Never played it until recently. It taught me about the cyclic nature of hot and cold numbers. And how to win with a bankroll to match the table limits. That´s how I won the 130000 at rouletteplayers.org. Took advantage of the maximum bets of 500 per individual numbers at the time. Now with the limits at 100 I´m the last on the leaderboard. And also because of testing new betting methods there. eh
Thanks for the answer. Impressive that you won so much! Yes it has alot to learn. It's like reading it with new eyes now that I'm learning the KTF and WTF. Really interesting aproach..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 05:20 AM 2016
+62 again X marks denzies double that we should only see once every odd 1,000 spins :lol:
jackpotjoy 8.4.16
1 24
2 13
3 22
4 34
5 7
6 3
7 23
8 7
9 9
10 27
11 10
12 10 X
13 28
14 22
15 29
16 6
17 26
18 26 X
19 3
20 14
21 32
22 19
23 21
24 20
25 29
26 20
27 6
28 11
29 2
30 25
31 4
32 34
33 24
34 33
35 12
36 23
37 10
38 10 X
39 18
40 5
41 34
42 34 X
43 24
44 8
45 16
46 11
47 36
48 27
49 19
50 11
51 34
52 32
53 11
54 4
55 26
56 25
57 5
58 24
59 7
60 2

61 3
62 21
63 28
64 17
65 4
66 17
67 21
68 12
69 23
70 2
71 34
72 30
73 14
74 35
75 3
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Foolwise on Apr 08, 06:32 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 08, 05:20 AM 2016
double that we should only see once every odd 1,000 spins :lol:
Who said that.. that will not happen every 1000. It happens quite frequent than that. It is common to see 2-3 occurances within 100 spins.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 08, 07:28 AM 2016
Thank You for todays numbers Notto

Still no joy at my B&M.
They are saying it may be another two weeks before roulette is back up and running.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 08, 07:30 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 08, 07:28 AM 2016
Thank You for todays numbers Notto

Still no joy at my B&M.
They are saying it may be another two weeks before roulette is back up and running.

-Celtic

Thats unreal

My local casino as i said has like 15 airball machines

When they swap for new ones they do a few at a timr
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 08, 07:34 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 08, 07:30 AM 2016
Thats unreal

My local casino as i said has like 15 airball machines

When they swap for new ones they do a few at a timr

There was only one large wheel before with 8 betting stations.
Cannot get any info from installation crew.
The main thing I want to know is the time allowed to place bets.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:15 AM 2016
Okay why did Ktf fail on 22/1/16
From the actual sheet,spins 21-30 would seem to be its downfall, the trot/count was avg 50/50 in 11-20, 5,+0
spins 21-30, 8,-2  again spins 31-40 was what you expect to get in spins 11-20,not 31-40  23,+0  If you look after spin 19, the next 11 spins only 3 non-hit came, The count of all 30 spins reads 16, 0X's to 14 1x+>1x Pretty close to 50/50, but betting 24non-hit 2/3rd of the wheel and to be betting on21non-hit at spin 30,has been rare to this date.
As i have said we dont get to use KTF on jackpot247.com for nearly 24 hrs, so if it came the next day, would it be like finding 123-123-123
The game gave the 15 non-hit in 30 spins, if you know countback, it shows upto 16th non-hit is where it could be, it's the 3 repeats and the 4 repeats that do the damage. The 3 repeats slowed the trot, then the non-hit kept to the trot, then the trot slowed, repeats came, then the non-hit came fast, the trot then went 50/50, as countback shows this trot.
Now if you dont KTF, you just watch, this is where you need to know the average of non-hits and thats why you collect an average document, with average to hit,countback you can make decisions,if your watching and just seen the count obliturated by spin 30, 17th non-hit hits on average within 2spins and has now missed for 4 spins, aint it time to bet that its going to hit soon, as upto the 7/4/16 its max is 8 spins, which last happened on the 10/1/16, so not often

For Priyanka, after this day,with the tweeks members have suggested it has won.
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 33 36
2 33 r
3 25 35
4 3 34
5 23 33 J247 22.01.16
6 1 32
7 14 31
8 22 30
9 2 29 stake
10 23 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 34 28 1 29 36 7
12 31 27 1 28 36 15
13 1 r 1 27 0 -12
14 1 r 2 54 0 -66
15 7 26 3 81 108 -39
16 2 r 2 52 0 -91
17 16 25 3 78 108 -61
18 22 r 2 50 0 -111
19 5 24 3 75 108 -78
20 5 r 2 48 0 -126
21 16 r 3 72 0 -198
22 22 r 4 96 0 -294
23 19 23 5 120 180 -234
24 20 22 4 92 144 -182
25 7 r 3 66 0 -248
26 30 21 4 88 144 -192
27 34 r 3 63 0 -255
28 20 r 4 84 0 -339
29 22 r 5 105 0 -444
30 33 r 6 126 0 -570
31 12 20 7 147 252 -465
32 36 19 6 120 216 -369
33 27 18 5 95 180 -284
34 14 r 4 72 0 -356
35 4 17 5 90 180 -266
36 4 r 4 68 0 -334
37 24 16 5 85 180 -239
38 1 r 4 64 0 -303
39 11 15 5 80 180 -203
40 35 14 4 60 144 -119
41 14 r 3 42 0 -161
42 26 13 4 56 144 -73
43 11 r 3 39 0 -112
44 30 r 4 52 0 -164
45 24 r 5 65 0 -229
46 5 r 6 78 0 -307
47 1 r 7 91 0 -398
48 0 12 8 104 288 -214
49 33 r 7 84 0 -298
50 13 13 8 96 288 -106
51 3 r 7 91 0 -197
52 30 r 8 104 0 -301
53 30 r 9 117 0 -418
54 4 r 10 130 0 -548
55 16 r 11 143 0 -691
56 24 r 12 156 0 -847
57 4 r 13 169 0 -1016
58 26 r 14 182 0 -1198
59 29 10 15 195 540 -853
60 27 r 14 140 0 -993
0 -993
61 8 9 15 150 540 -603
62 2 r 14 126 0 -729
63 36 r 15 135 0 -864
64 33 r 16 144 0 -1008
65 2 r 17 153 0 -1161
66 26 r 18 162 0 -1323
67 31 r 19 171 0 -1494
68 33 r 20 180 0 -1674
69 29 8 21 189 756 -1107
70 36 r 20 160 0 -1267
71 22 r 21 168 0 -1435
72 29 r 22 176 0 -1611
73 18 7 23 184 828 -967
74 32 6 22 154 792 -329
75 16 r 21 126 0 -455
76 2 r 22 132 0 -587
77 33 r 23 138 0 -725
78 29 r 24 144 0 -869
79 32 r 25 150 0 -1019
80 15 5 26 156 936 -239
81 12 r 25 125 0 -364
82 2 r 26 130 0 -494
83 26 r 27 135 0 -629
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:17 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 35 36
2 3 35
3 8 34
4 12 33
5 25 32 J247 22.12.15
6 7 31
7 1 30
8 11 29
9 23 28 stake
10 8 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 0 27 1 28 36 8
12 35 r 1 27 0 -19
13 8 r 2 54 0 -73
14 33 26 3 81 108 -46
15 18 25 2 52 72 -26
16 36 24 1 25 36 -15
17 7 r 1 24 0 -39
18 19 23 2 48 72 -15
19 8 r 1 23 0 -38
20 28 22 2 46 72 -12
21 23 r 1 22 0 -34
22 17 21 2 44 72 -6
23 7 r 1 21 0 -27
24 7 r 2 42 0 -69
25 12 r 3 63 0 -132 DD
26 13 20 4 84 144 -72
27 31 19 3 60 108 -24
28 9 18 2 38 72 10
29 14 17 1 18 36 28
30 12 r 1 17 0 11
31 14 r 2 34 0 -23
32 19 r 3 51 0 -74
33 29 16 4 68 144 2
34 24 15 3 48 108 62
35 12
36 1
37 1
38 27
39 35
40 9
41 10
42 10
43 35
44 36
45 19
46 33
47 35
48 24
49 17
50 36
51 6
52 31
53 32
54 4
55 34
56 17
57 34
58 32
59 27
60 18

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 7 36
2 13 35
3 32 34
4 32 r
5 32 r J247 23.12.15
6 36 33
7 34 32
8 29 31
9 27 30 stake
10 14 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 20 28 1 29 36 7
12 21 27 1 28 36 15
13 22 26 1 27 36 24
14 8 25 1 26 36 34
15 36 r 1 25 0 9
16 16 24 2 50 72 31
17 3 23 1 24 36 43
18 33 22 1 23 36 56
19 36
20 31
21 16
22 24
23 0
24 19
25 32
26 27
27 0
28 12
29 21
30 24
31 19
32 16
33 4
34 18
35 13
36 28
37 34
38 32
39 34
40 1
41 15
42 31
43 24
44 8
45 24
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:18 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 13 36
2 6 35
3 29 34
4 19 33
5 17 32 J247 24.12.15
6 9 31
7 21 30
8 29 r
9 2 29 stake
10 22 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 12 27 1 28 36 8
12 1 26 1 27 36 17
13 6 r 1 26 0 -9
14 9 r 2 52 0 -61
15 34 25 3 78 108 -31
16 1 r 2 50 0 -81
17 0 24 3 75 108 -48
18 33 23 2 48 72 -24
19 28 22 1 23 36 -11
20 4 21 1 22 36 3
21 33 r 1 21 0 -18
22 31 20 2 42 72 12
23 5 19 1 20 36 28
24 33 r 1 19 0 9
25 29 r 2 38 0 -29
26 12 r 3 57 0 -86
27 17 r 4 76 0 -162
28 33 r 5 95 0 -257
29 32 18 6 114 216 -155
30 4 r 5 90 0 -245
31 6 r 6 108 0 -353
32 29 r 7 126 0 -479 DD
33 25 17 8 144 288 -335
34 15 16 7 119 252 -202
35 2 r 6 96 0 -298
36 25 r 7 112 0 -410
37 14 15 8 128 288 -250
38 18 14 7 105 252 -103
39 9 r 6 84 0 -187
40 12 r 7 98 0 -285
41 29 r 8 112 0 -397
42 23 13 9 126 324 -199
43 11 12 8 104 288 -15
44 4 r 7 84 0 -99
45 7 11 8 96 288 93
46 24
47 13
48 25
49 30
50 35
51 25
52 23
53 18
54 12
55 31
56 12
57 1
58 30
59 18
60 25

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 30 36
2 31 35
3 31 r
4 13 34
5 27 33 J247 27.12.15
6 8 32
7 18 31
8 35 30
9 21 29 stake
10 8 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 15 28 1 29 36 7
12 23 27 1 28 36 15
13 3 26 1 27 36 24
14 34 25 1 26 36 34
15 0 24 1 25 36 45
16 29 23 1 24 36 57
17 35
18 29
19 9
20 16
21 15
22 14
23 10
24 19
25 22
26 24
27 29
28 0
29 22
30 9
31 15
32 10
33 36
34 6
35 23
36 12
37 29
38 23
39 3
40 16
41 21
42 31
43 9
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:20 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 30 36
2 24 35
3 19 34
4 12 33
5 13 32 J247 28.12.15
6 30 r
7 29 31
8 26 30
9 1 29 stake
10 11 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 26 r 1 28 0 -28
12 14 27 2 56 72 -12
13 13 r 1 27 0 -39
14 21 26 2 54 72 -21
15 5 25 1 26 36 -11
16 16 24 1 25 36 0
17 11 r 1 24 0 -24
18 10 23 2 48 72 0
19 23 22 1 23 36 13
20 35 21 1 22 36 27
21 14 r 1 21 0 6
22 25 20 2 42 72 36
23 8 19 1 20 36 52
24 20 18 1 19 36 69
25 8
26 0
27 15
28 6
29 26
30 17
31 26
32 31
33 6
34 2
35 20
36 21
37 35
38 33
39 34
40 5
41 2
42 31
43 30
44 13
45 23
46 8
47 27
48 22
49 9
50 17
51 22
52 28
53 0
54 1
55 3
56 22
57 3
58 6
59 17
60 21

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 36 36
2 17 35
3 2 34
4 8 33
5 26 32 J247 29.12.15
6 23 31
7 25 30
8 13 29
9 35 28 stake
10 20 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 15 26 1 27 36 9
12 32 25 1 26 36 19
13 0 24 1 25 36 30
14 30 23 1 24 36 42
15 20 r 1 23 0 19
16 6 22 2 46 72 45
17 4 21 1 22 36 59
18 34
19 7
20 29
21 6
22 1
23 17
24 13
25 6
26 22
27 5
28 7
29 13
30 35
31 20
32 7
33 30
34 16
35 22
36 6
37 12
38 5
39 15
40 33
41 17
42 24
43 18
44 13
45 18
46 1
47 29
48 0
49 0
50 31
51 26
52 34
53 10
54 14
55 35
56 23
57 25
58 30
59 29
60 29
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:21 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 20 36
2 32 35
3 36 34
4 28 33
5 15 32 J247 30.12.15
6 1 31
7 25 30
8 5 29
9 33 28 stake
10 35 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 35 r 1 27 0 -27
12 15 r 2 54 0 -81
13 13 26 3 81 108 -54
14 19 25 2 52 72 -34
15 0 24 1 25 36 -23
16 23 23 1 24 36 -11
17 8 22 1 23 36 2
18 23 r 1 22 0 -20
19 2 21 2 44 72 8
20 23 r 1 21 0 -13
21 4 20 2 42 72 17
22 29 19 1 20 36 33
23 34 18 1 19 36 50
24 0
25 23
26 9
27 8
28 31
29 9
30 11
31 18
32 14
33 11
34 19
35 33
36 23
37 9
38 29
39 12
40 27
41 13
42 19
43 24
44 7
45 1
46 2
47 32
48 26
49 23
50 18
51 4
52 0
53 30
54 13
55 35
56 11
57 18
58 10
59 18
60 8

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 4 36
2 23 35
3 33 34
4 36 33
5 36 r J247 31.12.15
6 30 32
7 5 31
8 28 30
9 1 29 stake
10 13 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 6 27 1 28 36 8
12 27 26 1 27 36 17
13 20 25 1 26 36 27
14 29 24 1 25 36 38
15 24 23 1 24 36 50
16 28
17 6
18 19
19 13
20 32
21 29
22 15
23 15
24 31
25 15
26 26
27 22
28 9
29 16
30 23
31 33
32 0
33 5
34 18
35 13
36 12
37 4
38 4
39 16
40 7
41 3
42 7
43 32
44 10
45 5
46 7
47 33
48 33
49 10
50 21
51 12
52 10
53 12
54 1
55 18
56 29
57 1
58 5
59 15
60 15
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:23 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 27 36
2 20 35
3 25 34
4 23 33
5 6 32 J247 02.01.16
6 20 r
7 13 31
8 28 30
9 17 29 stake
10 26 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 26 r 1 28 0 -28
12 14 27 2 56 72 -12
13 0 26 1 27 36 -3
14 18 25 1 26 36 7
15 13 r 1 25 0 -18
16 3 24 2 50 72 4
17 11 23 1 24 36 16
18 14 22 1 23 36 29
19 4 21 1 22 36 43
20 27 r 1 21 0 22
21 34 20 2 42 72 52
22 29 19 1 20 36 68
23 19
24 2
25 26
26 22
27 18
28 19
29 31
30 32
31 6
32 9
33 13
34 17
35 2
36 27
37 0
38 21
39 4
40 18
41 31
42 8
43 6
44 14
45 11
46 12
47 18
48 33
49 29
50 19
51 16
52 2
53 5
54 4
55 27
56 13
57 33
58 16
59 3
60

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 1 36
2 17 35
3 27 34
4 29 33
5 3 32 J247 03.01.16
6 12 31
7 2 30
8 31 29
9 17 r stake
10 18 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 27 r 1 28 0 -28
12 17 r 2 56 0 -84
13 28 27 3 84 108 -60
14 15 26 2 54 72 -42
15 4 25 1 26 36 -32
16 1 r 1 25 0 -57
17 1 r 2 50 0 -107
18 20 24 3 75 108 -74
19 29 r 2 48 0 -122
20 24 23 3 72 108 -86
21 29 r 2 46 0 -132
22 9 22 3 69 108 -93
23 26 21 2 44 72 -65
24 25 20 1 21 36 -50
25 0 19 1 20 36 -34
26 3 r 1 19 0 -53
27 14 18 2 38 72 -19
28 4 r 1 18 0 -37
29 29 r 2 36 0 -73
30 20 r 3 54 0 -127
31 4 r 4 72 0 -199
32 31 r 5 90 0 -289
33 9 r 6 108 0 -397
34 10 17 7 126 252 -271
35 31 r 6 102 0 -373
36 15 r 7 119 0 -492
37 17 r 8 136 0 -628 DD
38 13 16 9 153 324 -457
39 22 15 8 128 288 -297
40 8 14 7 105 252 -150
41 11 13 6 84 216 -18
42 17 r 5 65 0 -83
43 2 r 6 78 0 -161
44 22 r 7 91 0 -252
45 4 r 8 104 0 -356
46 23 12 9 117 324 -149
47 4 r 8 96 0 -245
48 9 r 9 108 0 -353
49 10 r 10 120 0 -473
50 19 11 11 132 396 -209
51 26 r 10 110 0 -319
52 1 r 11 121 0 -440
53 28 r 12 132 0 -572
54 35 10 13 143 468 -247
55 6 9 12 120 432 65
56 10
57 25
58 13
59 33
60 29
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:24 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 27 36
2 25 35
3 23 34
4 27 r
5 36 33 J247 04.01.16
6 3 32
7 10 31
8 25 r
9 19 30 stake
10 21 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 32 28 1 29 36 7
12 1 27 1 28 36 15
13 8 26 1 27 36 24
14 17 25 1 26 36 34
15 32 r 1 25 0 9
16 25 r 2 50 0 -41
17 16 24 3 75 108 -8
18 11 23 2 48 72 16
19 22 22 1 23 36 29
20 33 21 1 22 36 43
21 25 r 1 21 0 22
22 1 r 2 42 0 -20
23 34 20 3 63 108 25
24 20 19 2 40 72 57
25 32
26 28
27 27
28 9
29 22
30 20
31 29
32 16
33 18
34 14
35 5
36 17
37 17
38 1
39 32
40 34
41 24
42 22
43 21
44 27
45 8
46 34
47 22
48 32
49 23
50 27
51 28
52 10
53 6
54 6
55 6
56 34
57 20
58 6
59 15
60 36

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 3 36
2 25 35
3 2 34
4 8 33
5 29 32 J247 05.01.16
6 16 31
7 6 30
8 29 r
9 22 29 stake
10 6 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 28 28 1 29 36 7
12 34 27 1 28 36 15
13 10 26 1 27 36 24
14 35 25 1 26 36 34
15 13 24 1 25 36 45
16 13 r 1 24 0 21
17 1 23 2 48 72 45
18 11 22 1 22 36 59
19 6
20 3
21 18
22 3
23 12
24 19
25 2
26 31
27 24
28 29
29 4
30 19
31 9
32 7
33 18
34 3
35 17
36 29
37 16
38 16
39 9
40 23
41 34
42 6
43 15
44 10
45 36
46 0
47 25
48 1
49 31
50 5
51 33
52 19
53 9
54 5
55 10
56 18
57 9
58 26
59 25
60 14
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:26 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 28 36
2 35 35
3 15 34
4 20 33
5 15 r J247 06.01.16
6 30 32
7 13 31
8 32 30
9 2 29 stake
10 16 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 4 27 1 28 36 8
12 14 26 1 27 36 17
13 19 25 1 26 36 27
14 4 r 1 25 0 2
15 4 r 2 50 0 -48
16 11 24 3 75 108 -15
17 10 23 2 48 72 9
18 25 22 1 23 36 22
19 33 21 1 22 36 36
20 23 20 1 21 36 51
21 19
22 21
23 10
24 28
25 6
26 28
27 25
28 18
29 32
30 15
31 19
32 25
33 7
34 12
35 33
36 13
37 5
38 34
39 18
40 13
41 31
42 0
43 26
44 2
45 36
46 30
47 24
48 3
49 32
50 11
51 33
52 27
53 27
54 27
55 7
56 13
57 15
58 29
59 13
60 12

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 2 36
2 11 35
3 35 34
4 29 33
5 24 32 J247 07.01.16
6 23 31
7 36 30
8 32 29
9 11 r stake
10 29 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 9 28 1 29 36 7
12 29 r 1 28 0 -21
13 5 27 2 56 72 -5
14 19 26 1 27 36 4
15 3 25 1 26 36 14
16 17 24 1 25 36 25
17 26 23 1 24 36 37
18 8 22 1 23 36 50
19 4
20 15
21 29
22 26
23 6
24 29
25 5
26 13
27 11
28 22
29 34
30 16
31 25
32 33
33 33
34 32
35 3
36 16
37 24
38 4
39 19
40 22
41 0
42 27
43 29
44 12
45 34
46 13
47 9
48 27
49 6
50 21
51 28
52 18
53 32
54 30
55 18
56 27
57 1
58 20
59 30
60 15
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:28 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 27 36
2 4 35
3 11 34
4 14 33
5 28 32 J247 08.01.16
6 29 31
7 35 30
8 13 29
9 19 28 stake
10 0 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 24 26 1 27 36 9
12 15 25 1 26 36 19
13 12 24 1 25 36 30
14 17 23 1 24 36 42
15 15 r 1 23 0 19
16 20 22 2 46 72 45
17 33 21 1 22 36 59
18 2
19 29
20 13
21 4
22 4
23 36
24 27
25 31
26 5
27 19
28 13
29 22
30 25
31 7
32 6
33 25
34 14
35 14
36 14
37 14
38 5
39 18
40 32
41 0
42 12
43 18
44 36
45 8
46 13
47 20
48 4
49 4
50 26
51 1
52 4
53 36
54 26
55
56
57
58
59
60

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 25 36
2 24 35
3 1 34
4 25 r
5 7 33 J247 09.01.16
6 21 32
7 28 31
8 2 30
9 1 r stake
10 10 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 30 28 1 29 36 7
12 35 27 1 28 36 15
13 23 26 1 27 36 24
14 8 25 1 26 36 34
15 26 24 1 25 36 45
16 9 23 1 24 36 57
17 24
18 25
19 26
20 7
21 34
22 30
23 1
24 27
25 7
26 35
27 34
28 30
29 23
30 7
31 6
32 19
33 0
34 7
35 14
36 36
37 6
38 21
39 0
40 25
41 22
42 22
43 11
44 11
45 15
46 6
47 10
48 36
49 1
50 1
51 19
52 0
53 1
54 35
55 27
56
57
58
59
60
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:29 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 29 36
2 12 35
3 31 34
4 24 33
5 11 32 J247 10.01.16
6 4 31
7 10 30
8 14 29
9 8 28 stake
10 7 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 23 26 1 27 36 9
12 27 25 1 26 36 19
13 33 24 1 25 36 30
14 23 r 1 24 0 6
15 3 23 2 48 72 30
16 29 r 1 23 0 7
17 36 22 2 46 72 33
18 26 21 1 22 36 47
19 8 r 1 21 0 26
20 10 r 2 42 0 -16
21 26 r 3 63 0 -79
22 10 r 4 84 0 -163
23 26 r 5 105 0 -268
24 23 r 6 126 0 -394
25 11 r 7 147 0 -541 DD
26 2 20 8 168 288 -421
27 16 19 7 140 252 -309
28 0 18 6 115 216 -208
29 12 r 5 90 0 -298
30 8 r 6 108 0 -406
31 16 r 7 126 0 -532
32 5 17 8 144 288 -388
33 4 r 7 119 0 -507
34 20 16 8 135 288 -354
35 17 15 7 112 252 -214
36 25 14 6 90 216 -88
37 5 r 5 70 0 -158
38 4 r 6 84 0 -242
39 34 13 7 98 252 -88
40 15 12 6 78 216 50
41 29
42 34
43 9
44 14
45 8
46 10
47 6
48 0
49 18
50 16
51 22
52 3
53 30
54 20
55
56
57
58
59
60

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 19 36
2 15 35
3 7 34
4 19 r
5 17 33 J247 11.01.16
6 31 32
7 12 31
8 0 30
9 13 29 stake
10 32 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 18 27 1 28 36 8
12 27 26 1 27 36 17
13 25 25 1 26 36 27
14 18 r 1 25 0 2
15 33 24 2 50 72 24
16 22 23 1 24 36 36
17 35 22 1 23 36 49
18 24 21 1 22 36 63
19 2
20 17
21 4
22 17
23 4
24 1
25 33
26 12
27 35
28 28
29 28
30 5
31 24
32 24
33 14
34 2
35 27
36 36
37 34
38 5
39 24
40 29
41 21
42 7
43 16
44 32
45 36
46 35
47 10
48 19
49 36
50 16
51 14
52 2
53 27
54 25
55 4
56 21
57 20
58 8
59 22
60 25
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:30 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 25 36
2 19 35
3 1 34
4 34 33
5 6 32 J247 12.01.16
6 10 31
7 30 30
8 23 29
9 14 28 stake
10 34 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 0 27 1 28 36 8
12 16 26 1 27 36 17
13 11 25 1 26 36 27
14 34 r 1 25 0 2
15 22 24 2 50 72 24
16 30 r 1 24 0 0
17 21 23 2 48 72 24
18 29 22 1 23 36 37
19 9 21 1 22 36 51
20 7
21 16
22 33
23 22
24 21
25 8
26 28
27 7
28 30
29 30
30 18
31 3
32 34
33 10
34 28
35 18
36 17
37 17
38 24
39 32
40 9
41 32
42 0
43 19
44 13
45 19
46 26
47 4
48 1
49 31
50 31
51 36
52 34
53 28
54 18
55 23
56 14
57 19
58 24
59 18
60 31

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 16 36
2 35 35
3 8 34
4 13 33
5 18 32 J247 13.01.16
6 2 31
7 10 30
8 34 29
9 0 28 stake
10 10 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 14 27 1 28 36 8
12 9 26 1 27 36 17
13 19 25 1 26 36 27
14 20 24 1 25 36 38
15 33 23 1 24 36 50
16 1 22 1
17 13
18 20
19 26
20 8
21 25
22 9
23 10
24 4
25 9
26 12
27 5
28 36
29 32
30 1
31 9
32 21
33 36
34 13
35 24
36 34
37 3
38 26
39 25
40 14
41 35
42 33
43 23
44 17
45 32
46 16
47 36
48 34
49 7
50 36
51 1
52 31
53 3
54 30
55 3
56 29
57 3
58 21
59 8
60 28
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:31 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 31 36
2 0 35
3 17 34
4 6 33
5 17 r J247 14.01.16
6 33 32
7 14 31
8 0 r
9 4 30 stake
10 23 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 11 28 1 29 36 7
12 29 27 1 28 36 15
13 11 r 1 27 0 -12
14 21 26 2 54 72 6
15 10 25 1 26 36 16
16 11 r 1 25 0 -9
17 21 r 2 50 0 -59
18 36 24 3 75 108 -26
19 20 23 2 48 72 -2
20 5 22 1 23 36 11
21 33 r 1 22 0 -11
22 13 21 2 44 72 17
23 7 20 1 21 36 32
24 6 r 1 20 0 12
25 25 19 2 40 72 44
26 17 r 1 19 0 25
27 35 18 2 38 72 59
28 35
29 30
30 0
31 22
32 0
33 28
34 11
35 32
36 11
37 23
38 25
39 29
40 30
41 25
42 35
43 12
44 18
45 22
46 24
47 27
48 34
49 24
50 34
51 21
52 34
53 2
54 4
55 6
56 30
57 23
58 11
59 21
60 34

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 7 36
2 31 35
3 23 34
4 22 33
5 21 32 J247 15.01.16
6 21 r
7 1 31
8 4 30
9 0 29 stake
10 1 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 13 28 1 29 36 7
12 2 27 1 28 36 15
13 26 26 1 27 36 24
14 19 25 1 26 36 34
15 16 24 1 25 36 45
16 22 r 1 24 0 21
17 7 r 2 48 0 -27
18 32 23 3 72 108 9
19 13 r 2 46 0 -37
20 3 22 3 69 108 2
21 5 21 2 44 72 30
22 11 20 1 21 36 45
23 25 19 1 20 36 61
24 8
25 25
26 19
27 2
28 31
29 18
30 23
31 22
32 27
33 31
34 26
35 0
36 34
37 5
38 1
39 36
40 6
41 31
42 15
43 30
44 1
45 32
46 29
47 34
48 2
49 16
50 12
51 4
52 8
53 14
54 36
55 0
56 23
57 34
58 34
59 27
60 30
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:33 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 11 36
2 31 35
3 29 34
4 2 33
5 19 32 J247 16.01.16
6 30 31
7 16 30
8 15 29
9 23 28 stake
10 29 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 13 27 1 28 36 8
12 24 26 1 27 36 17
13 28 25 1 26 36 27
14 11 r 1 25 0 2
15 16 r 2 50 0 -48
16 8 24 3 75 108 -15
17 1 23 2 48 72 9
18 17 22 1 23 36 22
19 25 21 1 22 36 36
20 25 r 1 21 0 15
21 36 20 2 42 72 45
22 31 r 1 20 0 25
23 31 r 2 40 0 -15
24 5 19 3 60 108 33
25 10 18 2 38 72 67
26 32
27 23
28 6
29 12
30 16
31 22
32 6
33 31
34 29
35 29
36 5
37 19
38 24
39 35
40 19
41 30
42 31
43 4
44 29
45 5
46 10
47 14
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 31 36
2 21 35
3 21 r
4 29 34
5 22 33 J247 17.01.16
6 34 32
7 6 31
8 3 30
9 0 29 stake
10 10 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 23 27 1 28 36 8
12 36 26 1 27 36 17
13 7 25 1 26 36 27
14 1 24 1 25 36 38
15 14 23 1 24 36 50
16 4
17 0
18 11
19 1
20 25
21 10
22 16
23 26
24 24
25 17
26 20
27 0
28 18
29 22
30 14
31 6
32 29
33 17
34 22
35 13
36 16
37 8
38 16
39 8
40 5
41 6
42 27
43 36
44 4
45 12
46 8
47 10
48 23
49 9
50 12
51 17
52 32
53 8
54 13
55 29
56 22
57 24
58 34
59 9
60 20
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:34 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 18 36
2 24 35
3 3 34
4 16 33
5 35 32 J247 18.01.16
6 36 31
7 20 30
8 18 r
9 17 29 stake
10 36 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 28 28 1 29 36 7
12 30 27 1 28 36 15
13 31 26 1 27 36 24
14 1 25 1 26 36 34
15 7 24 1 25 36 45
16 23 23 1 24 36 57
17 14
18 27
19 4
20 3
21 28
22 34
23 36
24 26
25 14
26 23
27 26
28 27
29 27
30 23
31 19
32 15
33 11
34 36
35 1
36 26
37 18
38 20
39 27
40 34
41 35
42 6
43 15
44 17
45 10
46 14
47 31
48 18
49 3
50 5
51 35
52 16
53 26
54 22
55 21
56 19
57 27
58 18
59 5
60 7

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 15 36
2 9 35
3 20 34
4 32 33
5 16 32 J247 19.01.16
6 29 31
7 24 30
8 28 29
9 20 r stake
10 5 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 6 27 1 28 36 8
12 18 26 1 27 36 17
13 23 25 1 26 36 27
14 27 24 1 25 36 38
15 24 r 1 24 0 14
16 32 r 2 48 0 -34
17 7 23 3 72 108 2
18 1 22 2 46 72 28
19 6 r 1 22 0 6
20 15 r 2 44 0 -38
21 5 r 3 66 0 -104 DD
22 12 21 4 88 144 -48
23 30 20 3 63 108 -3
24 30 r 2 40 0 -43
25 4 19 3 60 108 5
26 10 18 2 38 72 39
27 11 17 1 18 36 57
28 4
29 17
30 5
31 9
32 4
33 2
34 36
35 27
36 27
37 7
38 34
39 25
40 22
41 23
42 18
43 25
44 9
45 30
46 24
47 27
48 0
49 14
50 15
51 23
52 32
53 19
54 35
55 6
56 35
57 2
58 25
59 14
60 18
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:36 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 25 36
2 25 r
3 16 35
4 1 34
5 26 33 J247 20.01.16
6 16 r
7 31 32
8 5 31
9 8 30 stake
10 14 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 34 28 1 29 36 7
12 13 27 1 28 36 15
13 33 26 1 27 36 24
14 36 25 1 26 36 34
15 33 r 1 25 0 9
16 2 24 2 50 72 31
17 3 23 1 24 36 43
18 2 r 1 23 0 20
19 9 22 2 46 72 46
20 14 r 1 22 0 24
21 36 r 2 44 0 -20
22 2 r 3 66 0 -86
23 23 21 4 88 144 -30
24 31 r 3 63 0 -93
25 32 20 4 84 144 -33
26 16 r 3 60 0 -93
27 1 r 4 80 0 -173
28 25 r 5 100 0 -273
29 8 r 6 120 0 -393 DD
30 29 19 7 140 252 -281
31 12 18 6 114 216 -179
32 7 17 5 90 180 -89
33 17 16 4 68 144 -13
34 17 r 3 48 0 -61
35 21 15 4 64 144 19
36 8 r 3 45 0 -26
37 31 r 4 60 0 -86
38 25 r 5 75 0 -161
39 15 14 6 90 216 -35
40 4 13 5 70 180 75
41 0
42 22
43 27
44 13
45 1
46 35
47 19
48 29
49 7
50 29
51 0
52 3
53 14
54 6
55 22
56 29
57 16
58 27
59 33
60 31

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 36 36
2 15 35
3 14 34
4 19 33
5 22 32 J247 21.01.16
6 34 31
7 3 30
8 3 r
9 31 29 stake
10 22 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 25 28 1 29 36 7
12 5 27 1 28 36 15
13 21 26 1 27 36 24
14 13 25 1 26 36 34
15 17 24 1 25 36 45
16 4 23 1 24 36 57
17 20
18 24
19 25
20 23
21 34
22 34
23 20
24 29
25 29
26 12
27 12
28 23
29 35
30 4
31 34
32 11
33 4
34 18
35 26
36 32
37 2
38 30
39 19
40 15
41 0
42 28
43 1
44 30
45 0
46 27
47 15
48 11
49 36
50 7
51 24
52 33
53 17
54 12
55 13
56 30
57 22
58 14
59 5
60 10
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:36 AM 2016
Hope you can work a stop/loss point RG
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 08, 09:45 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:36 AM 2016
Hope you can work a stop/loss point RG

Thanks. Will read this evening
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on Apr 08, 10:37 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 08, 09:15 AM 2016

For Priyanka, after this day,with the tweeks members have suggested it has won.
Long may it continue!!! :thumbsup: there's tremendous amount of work that has gone into it from your end and you have openly put out for people to see. That takes a lot of guts to do that ( some people may disagree) but I salute you for that.  We may disagree on the actual method, but for the record am a fan of GUT and any offshoots that come out of it as it is closely related to repeaters. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 02:18 PM 2016
Daily record of wins updated to 22.01.16
Date       win    lose total
22.12.15 62
23.12.15 56
24.12.15 93
27.12.15 57
28.12.15 69
29.12.15 59
30.12.15 50
31.12.15 50
02.01.16 68
03.01.16 65
04.01.16 57
05.01.16 59
06.01.16 51
07.01.16 50
08.01.16 59
09.01.16 57
10.01.16 50
11.01.16 63
12.01.16 51
13.01.16 50
14.01.16 59
15.01.16 61
16.01.16 67
17.01.16 50
18.01.16 57
19.01.16 57
20.01.16 75
21.01.16 57 1659
22.01.16 629
23.01.16 52
24.01.16 50
25.01.16 38
26.01.16 50
27.01.16 38
28.01.16 57
29.01.16 48
30.01.16 54
31.01.16 56
01.02.16 46
02.02.16 51
03.02.16 45
04.02.16 54
05.02.16 46
06.02.16 39
07.02.16 45
08.02.16 42
09.02.16 44
10.02.16 53
11.02.16 34
12.02.16 38
13.02.16 47
14.02.16 45
15.02.16 50
16.02.16 59
17.02.16 45
18.02.16 56
19.02.16 29
20.02.16 59
21.02.16 45
22.02.16 66
23.02.16 38
24.02.16 51
25.02.16 53
26.02.16 57
27.02.16 50
28.02.16 53
29.02.16 44
01.03.16 52
02.03.16 53
03.03.16 63
04.03.16 45
05.03.16 50
06.03.16 51
07.03.16 41
08.03.16 49
09.03.16 45
10.03.16 47
11.03.16 53
12.03.16 79
13.03.16 66
14.03.16 46
15.03.16 42
16.03.16 43
17.03.16 41
18.03.16 40
19.03.16 50
20.03.16 53
21.03.16 41
22.03.16 42
23.03.16 50
24.03.16 47
25.03.16 75
26.03.16 50
27.03.16 43
28.03.16 47
29.03.16 48
30.03.16 79
31.03.16 59
02.04.16 51
03.04.04 49
04.04.16 49
05.04.16 44
06.04.16 77







          5346   629 4717
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 08, 02:19 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 08, 02:18 PM 2016
Daily record of wins updated to 22.01.16
Date       win    lose total
22.12.15 62
23.12.15 56
24.12.15 93
27.12.15 57
28.12.15 69
29.12.15 59
30.12.15 50
31.12.15 50
02.01.16 68
03.01.16 65
04.01.16 57
05.01.16 59
06.01.16 51
07.01.16 50
08.01.16 59
09.01.16 57
10.01.16 50
11.01.16 63
12.01.16 51
13.01.16 50
14.01.16 59
15.01.16 61
16.01.16 67
17.01.16 50
18.01.16 57
19.01.16 57
20.01.16 75
21.01.16 57 1659
22.01.16 629
23.01.16 52
24.01.16 50
25.01.16 38
26.01.16 50
27.01.16 38
28.01.16 57
29.01.16 48
30.01.16 54
31.01.16 56
01.02.16 46
02.02.16 51
03.02.16 45
04.02.16 54
05.02.16 46
06.02.16 39
07.02.16 45
08.02.16 42
09.02.16 44
10.02.16 53
11.02.16 34
12.02.16 38
13.02.16 47
14.02.16 45
15.02.16 50
16.02.16 59
17.02.16 45
18.02.16 56
19.02.16 29
20.02.16 59
21.02.16 45
22.02.16 66
23.02.16 38
24.02.16 51
25.02.16 53
26.02.16 57
27.02.16 50
28.02.16 53
29.02.16 44
01.03.16 52
02.03.16 53
03.03.16 63
04.03.16 45
05.03.16 50
06.03.16 51
07.03.16 41
08.03.16 49
09.03.16 45
10.03.16 47
11.03.16 53
12.03.16 79
13.03.16 66
14.03.16 46
15.03.16 42
16.03.16 43
17.03.16 41
18.03.16 40
19.03.16 50
20.03.16 53
21.03.16 41
22.03.16 42
23.03.16 50
24.03.16 47
25.03.16 75
26.03.16 50
27.03.16 43
28.03.16 47
29.03.16 48
30.03.16 79
31.03.16 59
02.04.16 51
03.04.04 49
04.04.16 49
05.04.16 44
06.04.16 77







          5346   629 4717


Serious. I mean this. Great effort by you. Uploading all this. Good man.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 09, 06:20 AM 2016
Priyanka
although we say win 50/60 would you not stop, you'd really play on for the 1 unit
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 25 36
2 14 35
3 3 34
4 36 33
5 15 32 J247 9.4.16
6 33 31
7 9 30
8 30 29
9 8 28 stake
10 33 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 28 27 1 28 36 8
12 5 26 1 27 36 17
13 1 25 1 26 36 27
14 28 r 1 25 0 2
15 35 24 2 50 72 24
16 22 23 1 24 36 36
17 32 22 1 23 36 49
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 09, 06:31 AM 2016
For the real compulsive gamblers Jackpot247.com 09.04.16  KTF +60
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 25 36
2 14 35
3 3 34
4 36 33
5 15 32 J247 9.4.16
6 33 31
7 9 30
8 30 29
9 8 28 stake
10 33 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 28 27 1 28 36 8
12 5 26 1 27 36 17
13 1 25 1 26 36 27
14 28 r 1 25 0 2
15 35 24 2 50 72 24
16 22 23 1 24 36 36
17 32 22 1 23 36 49
18 15 r 1 22 0 27
19 3 r 2 44 0 -17
20 28 r 3 66 0 -83
21 34 21 4 88 144 -27
22 31 20 3 63 108 18
23 34 r 2 40 0 -22
24 21 19 3 60 108 26
25 17 18 2 38 72 60
26 30
27 4
28 25
29 16
30 13
31 20
32 32
33 9
34 31
35 10
36 25
37 16
38 0
39 19
40 13
41 17
42 33
43 11
44 13
45 0
46 36
47 3
48 5
49 32
50 32 X
51 17
52 14
53 33
54 8
55 21
56 2
57 9
58 0
59 1
60 1 X




X marks the doubles that dont happen ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 11, 09:23 AM 2016
Hi RG and anyone else, since its now play for 50/+50 after Priyanka, i've up dated to 11.02.16
The 22/01/16 DD highest is -1611, ends -629, which we know was a losing game.
Apart from that,the 03/01/16 has DD of -628, ends +65, more to do, but the profit is getting bigger through going for 50/+50.
Date win lose total
22.12.15 62
23.12.15 56
24.12.15 93
27.12.15 57
28.12.15 69
29.12.15 59
30.12.15 50
31.12.15 50
02.01.16 68
03.01.16 65
04.01.16 57
05.01.16 59
06.01.16 51
07.01.16 50
08.01.16 59
09.01.16 57
10.01.16 50
11.01.16 63
12.01.16 51
13.01.16 50
14.01.16 59
15.01.16 61
16.01.16 67
17.01.16 50
18.01.16 57
19.01.16 57
20.01.16 75
21.01.16 57 1659
22.01.16 629
23.01.16 52
24.01.16 50
25.01.16 65
26.01.16 50
27.01.16 57
28.01.16 57
29.01.16 60
30.01.16 54
31.01.16 56
01.02.16 55
02.02.16 51
03.02.16 59
04.02.16 54
05.02.16 63
06.02.16 238
07.02.16 57
08.02.16 55
09.02.16 62
10.02.16 53
11.02.16 57
12.02.16 38
13.02.16 47
14.02.16 45
15.02.16 50
16.02.16 59
17.02.16 45
18.02.16 56
19.02.16 29
20.02.16 59
21.02.16 45
22.02.16 66
23.02.16 38
24.02.16 51
25.02.16 53
26.02.16 57
27.02.16 50
28.02.16 53
29.02.16 44
01.03.16 52
02.03.16 53
03.03.16 63
04.03.16 45
05.03.16 50
06.03.16 51
07.03.16 41
08.03.16 49
09.03.16 45
10.03.16 47
11.03.16 53
12.03.16 79
13.03.16 66
14.03.16 46
15.03.16 42
16.03.16 43
17.03.16 41
18.03.16 40
19.03.16 50
20.03.16 53
21.03.16 41
22.03.16 42
23.03.16 50
24.03.16 47
25.03.16 75
26.03.16 50
27.03.16 43
28.03.16 47
29.03.16 48
30.03.16 79
31.03.16 59
02.04.16 51
03.04.04 49
04.04.16 49
05.04.16 44
06.04.16 77







5709 629 5080
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 13, 06:33 AM 2016
Nice RG
i was wondering if just picking a random 27 #'s would get good results playing for just non-hit.

Your 27#'s today +55, in 7 spins.

KTF +110 because of Priyanka and yourself. The play for 50/+50 with a BR of 800.
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 11 36
2 9 35
3 29 34
4 28 33
5 5 32 J247 13.04.16
6 17 31
7 12 30
8 7 29
9 32 28 stake
10 20 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 20 r 1 27 0 -27
12 10 26 2 54 72 -9
13 22 25 1 26 36 1
14 9 r 1 25 0 -24
15 17 r 2 50 0 -74
16 4 24 3 75 108 -41
17 0 23 2 48 72 -17
18 21 22 1 23 36 -4
19 9 r 1 22 0 -26
20 13 21 2 44 72 2
21 4 r 1 21 0 -19
22 22 r 2 42 0 -61
23 36 20 3 63 108 -16
24 4 r 2 40 0 -56
25 18 19 3 60 108 -8
26 7 r 2 38 0 -46
27 14 18 3 57 108 5
28 34 17 2 36 72 41
29 18 r 1 17 0 24
30 0 r 2 34 0 -10
31 6 16 3 51 108 47
32 9 r 2 32 0 15
33 18 r 3 48 0 -33
34 33 15 4 64 144 47
35 30 14 3 45 108 110
36 21 r
37 24 13
38 11 r
39 23 12
40 36
41 31
42 17
43 21
44 14
45 32
46 2
47 29
48 33
49 26
50 25
51 4
52 8
53 17
54 0
55 1
56 29
57 5
58 12
59 35
60 15

61 2
62 7
63 27
64 22
65 19
66 9
67 5
68 4
69 30
70 4
71 8
72 2
73 35

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 3 36
2 7 35
3 11 34
4 13 33
5 18 32 J247 RG's 10#
6 22 31
7 23 30
8 27 29
9 31 28 stake
10 35 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 20 26 1 27 36 9
12 10 25 1 26 36 19
13 22 r 1 25 0 -6
14 9 24 2 50 72 16
15 17 23 1 24 36 28
16 4 22 1 23 36 41
17 0 21 1 22 36 55
18 21
19 9
20 13
21 4
22 22
23 36
24 4
25 18
26 7
27 14
28 34
29 18
30 0
31 6
32 9
33 18
34 33
35 30
36 21
37 24
38 11
39 23
40 36
41 31
42 17
43 21
44 14
45 32
46 2
47 29
48 33
49 26
50 25
51 4
52 8
53 17
54 0
55 1
56 29
57 5
58 12
59 35
60 15

61 2
62 7
63 27
64 22
65 19
66 9
67 5
68 4
69 30
70 4
71 8
72 2
73 35


RG another set of 10 for tomorrows game
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 13, 06:45 AM 2016
I see what you did there

Thats cool

Picking 10 numbers random then betting the unhits might be just as effective
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 13, 07:27 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 13, 06:45 AM 2016
I see what you did there

Thats cool

Picking 10 numbers random then betting the unhits might be just as effective

so 8/9 or 10#'s  for tomorrows game
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 13, 07:30 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 13, 07:27 AM 2016
so 8/9 or 10#'s  for tomorrows game

1, 3, 8, 9, 21, 22, 24, 27, 31, 32
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 13, 08:23 AM 2016
Sheet for tomorrow 14.4.16
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 13, 08:55 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 13, 07:30 AM 2016
1, 3, 8, 9, 21, 22, 24, 27, 31, 32

-RG

Where are these numbers coming from?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 13, 09:00 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 13, 08:55 AM 2016
-RG

Where are these numbers coming from?

-Celtic
Ok

When I play recreationally these are the numbers I play in Atlantic City

They often miss many spins

So i said to myself "maybe good for kff"

LOL
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Apr 13, 09:09 AM 2016
Great work again, Hammer!
New horizons...

Thank you
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 13, 09:14 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 13, 08:55 AM 2016
-RG

Where are these numbers coming from?

-Celtic

Thank you for the reply.

-Celtid
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 13, 09:16 AM 2016
-Notto

Do you have any issues with me using the Jackpot 247 numbers in the WTF thread?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 13, 09:29 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 13, 09:16 AM 2016
-Notto

Do you have any issues with me using the Jackpot 247 numbers in the WTF thread?

-Celtic

You are so serious it makes me tense sometimes lol
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 13, 10:16 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 13, 09:29 AM 2016
You are so serious it makes me tense sometimes lol

When it comes to money you are correct I am dead serius.
I just do not like ruffling feathers.

I have a question for you.

On your airball machine(s) if you are betting 20 numbers and wish to rebet the same numbers again less 1 is there any way you can remove the number you want to take off after hitting the rebet button or do you have to rebet the 19 from scratch.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 13, 10:27 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on Apr 13, 10:16 AM 2016
When it comes to money you are correct I am dead serius.
I just do not like ruffling feathers.

I have a question for you.

On your airball machine(s) if you are betting 20 numbers and wish to rebet the same numbers again less 1 is there any way you can remove the number you want to take off after hitting the rebet button or do you have to rebet the 19 from scratch.

-Celtic

Ya know, im not 100 percent on that

I'll report back this weekend

Lets say you have 2 units per # . Then next spin you want to rebet the #s but drop down one unit. I think you can just drag one chip off each #

Will confirm Saturday
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on Apr 13, 01:17 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 13, 06:33 AM 2016
Nice RG
i was wondering if just picking a random 27 #'s would get good results playing for just non-hit.
Your 27#'s today +55, in 7 spins.
Notto - Am glad that you are doing this simulation. By the end of this simulation, I seriously think, you will be able to go to a table with 10 numbers in mind and start playing from word go with a set of 27 numbers and slowly remove them one by one as hits come along. But I will let you figure that out using simulation as there is no proof available for this. This is essentially selecting numbers before you play and playing on the future and not based on past spins as some would want to put it. Good luck :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tomla021 on Apr 13, 01:24 PM 2016
pryanka I dont understang going in with 10 pre conceived numbers but playing 27 numbers?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 13, 01:33 PM 2016
Quote from: Priyanka on Apr 13, 01:17 PM 2016
Notto - Am glad that you are doing this simulation. By the end of this simulation, I seriously think, you will be able to go to a table with 10 numbers in mind and start playing from word go with a set of 27 numbers and slowly remove them one by one as hits come along. But I will let you figure that out using simulation as there is no proof available for this. This is essentially selecting numbers before you play and playing on the future and not based on past spins as some would want to put it. Good luck :thumbsup:

I agree

Pick a random 10 numbers. Bet the other 27 with the same ktf rules and you should have good results as you have had with ktf. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tomla021 on Apr 13, 02:08 PM 2016
ok i will test a bit that way  should be similiar results
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 14, 05:28 AM 2016
Good results for both,RGs Random 27#'s and KTF's played for 27 #'s.
KTF today made the 50 units quicker, by one spin.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Apr 14, 05:40 AM 2016
Congratulation KTF for 1.000 posts!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 14, 12:06 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 13, 01:33 PM 2016
I agree

Pick a random 10 numbers. Bet the other 27 with the same ktf rules and you should have good results as you have had with ktf.
RG  another 10#'s or i could use the last 10 #'s from the game as it will be 24 hrs later
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 14, 12:07 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 14, 12:06 PM 2016
RG  another 10#'s or i could use the last 10 #'s from the game as it will be 24 hrs later

Use same. Those are my numbers i bet recreationally lol
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 14, 01:09 PM 2016
Okay Rg theres yours from 13/4/16, last 10#'s from spins 51-60,todays numbers.
Grid ready for tomorrow.

Tomola have you tested any random 27#'s
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 15, 12:56 PM 2016
3 ways of betting 27 #'s from todays J247.com #'s, all win  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 15, 01:12 PM 2016
My #s. Lol

Just play ktf using those....winna
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 04:50 PM 2016
Funny when playing KTF i can hear keep the faith, when on the forum lately i've been hearing the chemical brothers out of control,funny thing is its only when the Generals on barking on about good members methods and strategies  :twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:36 PM 2016
Thought i'd keep them in order, know the 22.1.16 already posted
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 33 36
2 33 r
3 25 35
4 3 34
5 23 33 J247 22.01.16
6 1 32
7 14 31
8 22 30
9 2 29 stake
10 23 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 34 28 1 29 36 7
12 31 27 1 28 36 15
13 1 r 1 27 0 -12
14 1 r 2 54 0 -66
15 7 26 3 81 108 -39
16 2 r 2 52 0 -91
17 16 25 3 78 108 -61
18 22 r 2 50 0 -111
19 5 24 3 75 108 -78
20 5 r 2 48 0 -126
21 16 r 3 72 0 -198
22 22 r 4 96 0 -294
23 19 23 5 120 180 -234
24 20 22 4 92 144 -182
25 7 r 3 66 0 -248
26 30 21 4 88 144 -192
27 34 r 3 63 0 -255
28 20 r 4 84 0 -339
29 22 r 5 105 0 -444
30 33 r 6 126 0 -570
31 12 20 7 147 252 -465
32 36 19 6 120 216 -369
33 27 18 5 95 180 -284
34 14 r 4 72 0 -356
35 4 17 5 90 180 -266
36 4 r 4 68 0 -334
37 24 16 5 85 180 -239
38 1 r 4 64 0 -303
39 11 15 5 80 180 -203
40 35 14 4 60 144 -119
41 14 r 3 42 0 -161
42 26 13 4 56 144 -73
43 11 r 3 39 0 -112
44 30 r 4 52 0 -164
45 24 r 5 65 0 -229
46 5 r 6 78 0 -307
47 1 r 7 91 0 -398
48 0 12 8 104 288 -214
49 33 r 7 84 0 -298
50 13 13 8 96 288 -106
51 3 r 7 91 0 -197
52 30 r 8 104 0 -301
53 30 r 9 117 0 -418
54 4 r 10 130 0 -548
55 16 r 11 143 0 -691
56 24 r 12 156 0 -847
57 4 r 13 169 0 -1016
58 26 r 14 182 0 -1198
59 29 10 15 195 540 -853
60 27 r 14 140 0 -993
0 -993
61 8 9 15 150 540 -603
62 2 r 14 126 0 -729
63 36 r 15 135 0 -864
64 33 r 16 144 0 -1008
65 2 r 17 153 0 -1161
66 26 r 18 162 0 -1323
67 31 r 19 171 0 -1494
68 33 r 20 180 0 -1674
69 29 8 21 189 756 -1107
70 36 r 20 160 0 -1267
71 22 r 21 168 0 -1435
72 29 r 22 176 0 -1611 DD
73 18 7 23 184 828 -967
74 32 6 22 154 792 -329
75 16 r 21 126 0 -455
76 2 r 22 132 0 -587
77 33 r 23 138 0 -725
78 29 r 24 144 0 -869
79 32 r 25 150 0 -1019
80 15 5 26 156 936 -239
81 12 r 25 125 0 -364
82 2 r 26 130 0 -494
83 26 r 27 135 0 -629

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 18 36
2 25 35
3 16 34
4 15 33
5 5 32 J247 23.01.16
6 30 31
7 31 30
8 21 29
9 5 r stake
10 3 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 24 27 1 28 36 8
12 17 26 1 27 36 17
13 12 25 1 26 36 27
14 10 24 1 25 36 38
15 3 r 1 24 0 14
16 23 23 2 48 72 38
17 16 r 1 23 0 15
18 24 r 2 46 0 -31
19 13 22 3 69 108 8
20 30 r 2 44 0 -36
21 26 21 3 66 108 6
22 2 20 2 42 72 36
23 11 19 1 20 36 52
24 10
25 24
26 26
27 0
28 5
29 29
30 29
31 6
32 7
33 18
34 3
35 11
36 2
37 34
38 22
39 6
40 29
41 2
42 11
43 27
44 29
45 33
46 13
47 21
48 1
49 18
50 34
51 12
52 1
53 10
54 4
55 16
56 24
57 4
58 26
59 29
60 27
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:38 PM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 29 36
2 17 35
3 10 34
4 21 33
5 26 32 J247 24.01.16
6 17 r
7 2 31
8 14 30
9 3 29 stake
10 25 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 31 27 1 28 36 8
12 11 26 1 27 36 17
13 35 25 1 26 36 27
14 6 24 1 25 36 38
15 1 23 1 24 36 50
16 14
17 11
18 28
19 24
20 36
21 0
22 12
23 27
24 12
25 6
26 30
27 3
28 13
29 17
30 4
31 26
32 32
33 12
34 9
35 24
36 30
37 23
38 14
39 11
40 23
41 6
42 6
43 21
44 0
45 15
46 5
47 35
48 4
49 36
50 32
51 7
52 11
53 2
54 25
55 0
56 29
57 17
58 20
59 25
60 16

61 27
62 16
63 11
64 13
65 22
66 27
67 9
68 14
69 9
70 3
71 20
72 31
73 0
74 32
75 16
76 2
77 33
78 29
79 32
80 15
81 12
82 2
83 26

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 26 36
2 23 35
3 2 34
4 35 33
5 8 32 J247 25.1.16
6 16 31
7 14 30
8 22 29
9 14 r stake
10 30 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 21 27 1 28 36 8
12 20 26 1 27 36 17
13 5 25 1 26 36 27
14 33 24 1 25 36 38
15 8 r 1 24 0 14
16 30 r 2 48 0 -34
17 6 23 3 72 108 2
18 2 r 2 46 0 -44
19 16 r 3 69 0 -113
20 8 r 4 92 0 -205 DD
21 27 22 5 115 180 -140
22 31 21 4 88 144 -84
23 9 20 3 63 108 -39
24 1 19 2 40 72 -7
25 2 r 1 19 0 -26
26 13 18 2 38 72 8
27 19 17 1 18 36 26
28 32 16 1 17 36 45
29 28 15 1 16 36 65
30 1
31 1
32 32
33 1
34 6
35 36
36 4
37 16
38 29
39 15
40 13
41 18
42 32
43 17
44 36
45 22
46 33
47 22
48 31
49 21
50 22
51 2
52 34
53 32
54 1
55 19
56 14
57 20
58 30
59 16
60 22

61 9
62 26
63 11
64 24
65 6
66 3
67 33
68 10
69 32
70 27
71 7
72 32
73 33
74 8
75 12
76 23
77 29
78 32
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:40 PM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 27 36
2 3 35
3 18 34
4 13 33
5 0 32 J247 26.1.16
6 23 31
7 10 30
8 9 29
9 31 28 stake
10 19 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 18 r 1 27 0 -27
12 22 26 2 54 72 -9
13 22 r 1 26 0 -35
14 35 25 2 52 72 -15
15 11 24 1 25 36 -4
16 1 23 1 24 36 8
17 6 22 1 23 36 21
18 16 21 1 22 36 35
19 29 20 1 21 36 50
20 14 19 1
21 33
22 10
23 21
24 4
25 0
26 19
27 10
28 3
29 23
30 35
31 28
32 21
33 5
34 28
35 27
36 27
37 12
38 10
39 16
40 34
41 24
42 19
43 23
44 4
45 35
46 5
47 25
48 19
49 24
50 36
51 4
52 26
53 27
54 7
55 31
56 0
57 20
58 19
59 11
60 21

61 3
62 26
63 12
64 33
65 7
66 27
67 10
68 24
69 20
70 20
71 12
72 26
73 33
74 8
75 12
76 23
77 29
78 32

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 31 36
2 9 35
3 24 34
4 12 33
5 27 32 J247 27.1.16
6 22 31
7 9 r
8 4 30
9 35 29 stake
10 36 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 17 27 1 28 36 8
12 3 26 1 27 36 17
13 30 25 1 26 36 27
14 6 24 1 25 36 38
15 35 r 1 24 0 14
16 17 r 2 48 0 -34
17 14 23 3 72 108 2
18 20 22 2 46 72 28
19 28 21 1 22 36 42
20 25 20 1 21 36 57
21 35
22 7
23 28
24 28
25 15
26 10
27 27
28 2
29 15
30 27
31 22
32 0
33 4
34 17
35 32
36 15
37 0
38 28
39 9
40 1
41 3
42 19
43 32
44 14
45 12
46 16
47 29
48 10
49 29
50 29
51 22
52 32
53 18
54 25
55 8
56 28
57 24
58 1
59 18
60 28

61 33
62 23
63 27
64 1
65 11
66 24
67 6
68 34
69 31
70 18
71 27
72 12
73 34
74 28
75 24
76 22
77 18
78 15
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:41 PM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 6 36
2 15 35
3 3 34
4 15 r
5 3 r J247 28.1.16
6 24 33
7 9 32
8 29 31
9 31 30 stake
10 17 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 9 r 1 29 0 -29
12 35 28 2 58 72 -15
13 33 27 1 28 36 -7
14 34 26 1 27 36 2
15 23 25 1 26 36 12
16 16 24 1 25 36 23
17 23 r 1 24 0 -1
18 1 23 2 48 72 23
19 3 r 1 23 0 0
20 18 22 2 46 72 26
21 31 r 1 22 0 4
22 19 21 2 44 72 32
23 23 r 1 21 0 11
24 32 20 2 42 72 41
25 22 19 1 20 36 57
26 30 18 1
27 22
28 26
29 35
30 14
31 11
32 33
33 14
34 17
35 32
36 36
37 16
38 18
39 25
40 12
41 21
42 22
43 34
44 35
45 24
46 17
47 4
48 0
49 8
50 6
51 4
52 7
53 10
54 17
55 3
56 24
57 3
58 5
59 34
60 34

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 9 36
2 24 35
3 35 34
4 22 33
5 26 32 J247 29.1.16
6 21 31
7 10 30
8 29 29
9 8 28 stake
10 31 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 29 r 1 27 0 -27
12 26 r 2 54 0 -81
13 1 26 3 81 108 -54
14 24 r 2 52 0 -106
15 17 25 3 78 108 -76
16 34 24 2 50 72 -54
17 32 23 1 24 36 -42
18 22 r 1 23 0 -65
19 36 22 2 46 72 -39
20 9 r 1 22 0 -61
21 25 21 2 44 72 -33
22 15 20 1 21 36 -18
23 33 19 1 20 36 -2
24 25 r 1 19 0 -21
25 1 r 2 38 0 -59
26 23 18 3 57 108 -8
27 22 r 2 36 0 -44
28 19 17 3 54 108 10
29 3 16 2 34 72 48
30 21 r 1 16 0 32
31 33 r 2 32 0 0
32 14 15 3 48 108 60
33 1
34 8
35 28
36 9
37 31
38 2
39 2
40 31
41 35
42 12
43 6
44 22
45 31
46 31
47 15
48 15
49 30
50 36
51 3
52 7
53 28
54 24
55 17
56 3
57 12
58 10
59 34
60 34

61 14
62 32
63 2
64 4
65 29
66 32
67 11
68 23
69 12
70 12
71 22
72 18
73 6
74 4
75 27
76 32
77 32
78 16
79 22
80 7
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:43 PM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 12 36
2 34 35
3 10 34
4 7 33
5 12 r J247 30.1.16
6 12 r
7 29 32
8 14 31
9 6 30 stake
10 21 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 24 28 1 29 36 7
12 27 27 1 28 36 15
13 10 r 1 27 0 -12
14 30 26 2 54 72 6
15 1 25 1 26 36 16
16 15 24 1 25 36 27
17 1 r 1 24 0 3
18 18 23 2 48 72 27
19 20 22 1 23 36 40
20 4 21 1 22 36 54
21 21
22 29
23 29
24 11
25 23
26 15
27 10
28 16
29 31
30 32
31 35
32 27
33 0
34 32
35 9
36 23
37 5
38 17
39 13
40 24
41 35
42 25

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 35 36
2 29 35
3 32 34
4 1 33
5 19 32 J247 31.1.16
6 18 31
7 3 30
8 11 29
9 17 28 stake
10 0 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 12 26 1 27 36 9
12 30 25 1 26 36 19
13 14 24 1 25 36 30
14 17 r 1 24 0 6
15 18 r 2 48 0 -42
16 26 23 3 72 108 -6
17 6 22 2 46 72 20
18 3 r 1 22 0 -2
19 19 r 2 44 0 -46
20 30 r 3 66 0 -112
21 27 21 4 88 144 -56
22 31 20 3 63 108 -11
23 13 19 2 40 72 21
24 4 18 1 19 36 38
25 29 r 1 18 0 20
26 15 17 2 36 72 56
27 0
28 35
29 33
30 6
31 22
32 3
33 32
34 31
35 25
36 31
37 4
38 28
39 32
40 33
41 34
42 16
43 35
44 27
45 9
46 27
47 6
48 23
49 5
50 14
51 3
52 3
53 13
54 26
55 3
56 17
57 9
58 28
59 34
60 25
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:44 PM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 22 36
2 3 35
3 12 34
4 18 33
5 33 32 J247 01.02.16
6 26 31
7 6 30
8 28 29
9 2 28 stake
10 16 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 27 26 1 27 36 9
12 26 r 1 26 0 -17
13 36 25 2 52 72 3
14 35 24 1 25 36 14
15 27 r 1 24 0 -10
16 34 23 2 48 72 14
17 2 r 1 23 0 -9
18 5 22 2 46 72 17
19 32 21 1 22 36 31
20 24 20 1 21 36 46
21 12 r 1 20 0 26
22 24 r 2 40 0 -14
23 32 r 3 60 0 -74
24 17 19 4 80 144 -10
25 28 r 3 57 0 -67
26 4 18 4 76 144 1
27 14 17 3 54 108 55
28 21 16 2
29 1 15 1
30 5
31 8
32 30
33 4
34 18
35 35
36 27
37 30
38 36
39 0
40 0
41 19
42 7
43 10
44 10
45 19
46 18
47 20
48 0
49 2
50 34
51 7
52 21
53 17
54 2
55 3
56 11
57 9
58 35
59 26
60 29

61 15
62 33
63 6
64 7
65 26
66 20
67 23
68 18
69 25
70 18
71 28
72 26
73 14
74 13
75 0
76 23
77 23
78 25
79 3

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 7 36
2 21 35
3 12 34
4 17 33
5 9 32 J247 02.02.16
6 5 31
7 33 30
8 36 29
9 8 28 stake
10 36 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 16 27 1 28 36 8
12 17 r 1 27 0 -19
13 23 26 2 54 72 -1
14 10 25 1 26 36 9
15 35 24 1 25 36 20
16 19 23 1 24 36 32
17 30 22 1 23 36 45
18 36 r 1 22 0 23
19 6 21 2 44 72 51
20 10
21 1
22 10
23 14
24 4
25 20
26 9
27 12
28 22
29 18
30 27
31 7
32 18
33 2
34 22
35 12
36 23
37 24
38 6
39 24
40 17
41 34
42 4
43 12
44 9
45 20
46 5
47 16
48 22
49 10
50 23
51 19
52 7
53 19
54 27
55 9
56 25
57 20
58 35
59 26
60 11

61 14
62 25
63 20
64 28
65 18
66 1
67 35
68 9
69 32
70 5
71 3
72 9
73 14
74 13
75 0
76 23
77 23
78 25
79 3
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:46 PM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 1 36
2 20 35
3 35 34
4 8 33
5 4 32 J247 03.02.16
6 1 r
7 2 31
8 28 30
9 28 r stake
10 16 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 6 28 1 29 36 7
12 3 27 1 28 36 15
13 36 26 1 27 36 24
14 18 25 1 26 36 34
15 32 24 1 25 36 45
16 20 r 1 24 0 21
17 30 23 2 48 72 45
18 4 r 1 23 0 22
19 2 r 2 46 0 -24
20 26 22 3 69 108 15
21 18 r 2 44 0 -29
22 12 21 3 66 108 13
23 34 20 2 42 72 43
24 0 19 1 20 36 59
25 19
26 27
27 32
28 11
29 27
30 27
31 26
32 0
33 32
34 28
35 18
36 0
37 25
38 2
39 29
40 4
41 36
42 12
43 13
44 3
45 6
46 13
47 11
48 29
49 2
50 25
51 5
52 12
53 15
54 4
55 21
56 26
57 35
58 20
59 31
60 17

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 23 36
2 16 35
3 27 34
4 26 33
5 5 32 J247 04.02.16
6 31 31
7 28 30
8 8 29
9 36 28 stake
10 26 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 20 27 1 28 36 8
12 27 r 1 27 0 -19
13 16 r 2 54 0 -73
14 4 26 3 81 108 -46
15 17 25 2 52 72 -26
16 7 24 1 25 36 -15
17 22 23 1 24 36 -3
18 22 r 1 23 0 -26
19 34 22 2 46 72 0
20 34 r 1 22 0 -22
21 11 21 2 44 72 6
22 25 20 1 21 36 21
23 14 19 1 20 36 37
24 10 18 1 19 36 54
25 24
26 13
27 19
28 31
29 17
30 8
31 2
32 34
33 1
34 3
35 20
36 20
37 13
38 35
39 31
40 16
41 36
42 35
43 30
44 18
45 6
46 11
47 3
48 13
49 8
50 14
51 35
52 1
53 33
54 12
55 4
56 16
57 12
58 26
59 24
60 34
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:49 PM 2016
RG 456 DD on this one but +238
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 34 36
2 18 35
3 19 34
4 14 33
5 20 32 J247 05.02.16
6 22 31
7 7 30
8 5 29
9 30 28 stake
10 10 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 10 r 1 27 0 -27
12 35 26 2 54 72 -9
13 19 r 1 26 0 -35
14 11 25 2 52 72 -15
15 2 24 1 25 36 -4
16 18 r 1 24 0 -28
17 27 23 2 48 72 -4
18 1 22 1 23 36 9
19 34 r 1 22 0 -13
20 28 21 2 44 72 15
21 36 20 1 21 36 30
22 26 19 1 20 36 46
23 25 18 1 19 36 63
24 15
25 2
26 26
27 31
28 29
29 19
30 2
31 13
32 11
33 23
34 19
35 22
36 31
37 14
38 9
39 10
40 8
41 18
42 25
43 23
44 0
45 8
46 36
47 4
48 15
49 2
50 9
51 25
52 16
53 18
54 36
55 4
56 16
57 12
58 26
59 24
60 34

61 0
62 22
63 4
64 12
65 36
66 21
67 4
68 32
69 33
70 35
71 18
72 30
73 6
74 8
75 15
76 10
77 9
78 30
79 26
80 4
81 27
82 34

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 34 36
2 4 35
3 0 34
4 7 33
5 34 r J247 06.02.16
6 25 32
7 23 31
8 22 30
9 6 29 stake
10 9 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 27 27 1 28 36 8
12 3 26 1 27 36 17
13 11 25 1 26 36 27
14 11 r 1 25 0 2
15 13 24 2 50 72 24
16 17 23 1 24 36 36
17 3 r 1 23 0 13
18 34 r 2 46 0 -33
19 4 r 3 69 0 -102
20 16 22 4 92 144 -50
21 17 r 3 66 0 -116
22 21 21 4 88 144 -60
23 18 20 3 63 108 -15
24 7 r 2 40 0 -55
25 3 r 3 60 0 -115
26 32 19 4 80 144 -51
27 5 18 3 57 108 0
28 34 r 2 36 0 -36
29 17 r 3 54 0 -90
30 19 17 4 72 144 -18
31 3 r 3 51 0 -69
32 10 16 4 68 144 7
33 17 r 3 48 0 -41
34 30 15 4 64 144 39
35 23 r 3 45 0 -6
36 21 r 4 60 0 -66
37 18 r 5 75 0 -141
38 4 r 6 90 0 -231
39 3 r 7 105 0 -336
40 3 r 8 120 0 -456 DD
41 8 14 9 135 324 -267
42 14 13 8 112 288 -91
43 16 r 7 91 0 -182
44 33 12 8 104 288 2
45 17 r 7 84 0 -82
46 16 r 8 96 0 -178
47 26 11 9 108 324 38
48 24 10 8 88 288 238
49 0
50 9
51 25
52 16
53 18
54 36
55 4
56 16
57 12
58 26
59 24
60 34

61 0
62 22
63 4
64 12
65 36
66 21
67 4
68 32
69 33
70 35
71 18
72 30
73 6
74 8
75 15
76 10
77 9
78 30
79 26
80 4
81 27
82 34
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:50 PM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 3 36
2 4 35
3 21 34
4 10 33
5 5 32 J247 07.02.16
6 22 31
7 3 r
8 3 r
9 36 30 stake
10 0 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 12 28 1 29 36 7
12 20 27 1 28 36 15
13 25 26 1 27 36 24
14 23 25 1 26 36 34
15 14 24 1 25 36 45
16 19 23 1 24 36 57
17 6 22 1
18 20
19 22
20 33
21 2
22 2
23 33
24 29
25 27
26 35
27 7
28 5
29 20
30 35
31 26
32 2
33 0
34 6
35 11
36 34
37 7
38 18
39 15
40 23
41 23
42 31
43 6
44 32
45 27
46 19
47 11
48 26
49 28
50 8
51 2
52 25
53 33
54 36
55 24
56 22
57 30
58 16
59 26
60 5

61 12
62 30
63 26
64 14
65 22
66 32
67 16
68 1
69 27
70 0
71 14
72 17
73 27
74 14
75 1
76 4
77 0
78 32
79 8

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 12 36
2 29 35
3 22 34
4 1 33
5 25 32 J247 08.02.16
6 3 31
7 15 30
8 27 29
9 11 28 stake
10 16 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 36 26 1 27 36 9
12 9 25 1 26 36 19
13 17 24 1 25 36 30
14 26 23 1 24 36 42
15 20 22 1 23 36 55
16 21
17 0
18 0
19 28
20 7
21 27
22 31
23 30
24 4
25 25
26 26
27 23
28 28
29 15
30 9
31 28
32 19
33 5
34 20
35 34
36 12
37 19
38 31
39 10
40 9
41 34
42 23
43 19
44 1
45 20
46 23
47 35
48 6
49 34
50 7
51 22
52 18
53 36
54 27
55 21
56 33
57 17
58 14
59 10
60 12

61 23
62 21
63 22
64 0
65 31
66 16
67 1
68 3
69 29
70 34
71 29
72 35
73 1
74 12
75 11
76 24
77 27
78 23
79 19
80 29
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 18, 06:51 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:49 PM 2016
RG 456 DD on this one but +238
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 34 36
2 18 35
3 19 34
4 14 33
5 20 32 J247 05.02.16
6 22 31
7 7 30
8 5 29
9 30 28 stake
10 10 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 10 r 1 27 0 -27
12 35 26 2 54 72 -9
13 19 r 1 26 0 -35
14 11 25 2 52 72 -15
15 2 24 1 25 36 -4
16 18 r 1 24 0 -28
17 27 23 2 48 72 -4
18 1 22 1 23 36 9
19 34 r 1 22 0 -13
20 28 21 2 44 72 15
21 36 20 1 21 36 30
22 26 19 1 20 36 46
23 25 18 1 19 36 63
24 15
25 2
26 26
27 31
28 29
29 19
30 2
31 13
32 11
33 23
34 19
35 22
36 31
37 14
38 9
39 10
40 8
41 18
42 25
43 23
44 0
45 8
46 36
47 4
48 15
49 2
50 9
51 25
52 16
53 18
54 36
55 4
56 16
57 12
58 26
59 24
60 34

61 0
62 22
63 4
64 12
65 36
66 21
67 4
68 32
69 33
70 35
71 18
72 30
73 6
74 8
75 15
76 10
77 9
78 30
79 26
80 4
81 27
82 34

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 34 36
2 4 35
3 0 34
4 7 33
5 34 r J247 06.02.16
6 25 32
7 23 31
8 22 30
9 6 29 stake
10 9 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 27 27 1 28 36 8
12 3 26 1 27 36 17
13 11 25 1 26 36 27
14 11 r 1 25 0 2
15 13 24 2 50 72 24
16 17 23 1 24 36 36
17 3 r 1 23 0 13
18 34 r 2 46 0 -33
19 4 r 3 69 0 -102
20 16 22 4 92 144 -50
21 17 r 3 66 0 -116
22 21 21 4 88 144 -60
23 18 20 3 63 108 -15
24 7 r 2 40 0 -55
25 3 r 3 60 0 -115
26 32 19 4 80 144 -51
27 5 18 3 57 108 0
28 34 r 2 36 0 -36
29 17 r 3 54 0 -90
30 19 17 4 72 144 -18
31 3 r 3 51 0 -69
32 10 16 4 68 144 7
33 17 r 3 48 0 -41
34 30 15 4 64 144 39
35 23 r 3 45 0 -6
36 21 r 4 60 0 -66
37 18 r 5 75 0 -141
38 4 r 6 90 0 -231
39 3 r 7 105 0 -336
40 3 r 8 120 0 -456 DD
41 8 14 9 135 324 -267
42 14 13 8 112 288 -91
43 16 r 7 91 0 -182
44 33 12 8 104 288 2
45 17 r 7 84 0 -82
46 16 r 8 96 0 -178
47 26 11 9 108 324 38
48 24 10 8 88 288 238
49 0
50 9
51 25
52 16
53 18
54 36
55 4
56 16
57 12
58 26
59 24
60 34

61 0
62 22
63 4
64 12
65 36
66 21
67 4
68 32
69 33
70 35
71 18
72 30
73 6
74 8
75 15
76 10
77 9
78 30
79 26
80 4
81 27
82 34


nice recover and does not happen much. good
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:52 PM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 26 36
2 27 35
3 11 34
4 35 33
5 8 32 J247 09.02.16
6 8 r
7 36 31
8 1 30
9 7 29 stake
10 9 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 21 27 1 28 36 8
12 12 26 1 27 36 17
13 12 r 1 26 0 -9
14 28 25 2 52 72 11
15 26 r 1 25 0 -14
16 28 r 2 50 0 -64
17 20 24 3 75 108 -31
18 24 23 2 48 72 -7
19 2 22 1 23 36 6
20 33 21 1 22 36 20
21 11 r 1 21 0 -1
22 35 r 2 42 0 -43
23 31 20 3 63 108 2
24 26 r 2 40 0 -38
25 19 19 3 60 108 10
26 16 18 2 38 72 44
27 17 r 1 18 0 26
28 6 17 2 36 72 62
29 9
30 11
31 9
32 27
33 27
34 21
35 6
36 27
37 22
38 35
39 35
40 25
41 23
42 5
43 15
44 15
45 26
46 21
47 33
48 10
49 17
50 21
51 26
52 26
53 33
54 27
55 19
56 7
57 30
58 32
59 9
60 27

61 10
62 25
63 14
64 6
65 32
66 33
67 8
68 18
69 16
70 34
71 29
72 35
73 1
74 12
75 11
76 24
77 27
78 23
79 19
80 29

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 8 36
2 31 35
3 24 34
4 12 33
5 11 32 J247 10.02.16
6 20 31
7 22 30
8 27 29
9 1 28 stake
10 2 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 4 26 1 27 36 9
12 20 r 1 26 0 -17
13 33 25 2 52 72 3
14 11 r 1 25 0 -22
15 18 24 2 50 72 0
16 23 23 1 24 36 12
17 30 22 1 23 36 25
18 7 21 1 22 36 39
19 12 r 1 21 0 18
20 1 r 2 42 0 -24
21 3 20 3 63 108 21
22 19 19 2 40 72 53
23 27
24 12
25 14
26 4
27 24
28 1
29 28
30 35
31 24
32 18
33 9
34 25
35 15
36 33
37 25
38 16
39 15
40 6
41 13
42 35
43 25
44 15
45 6
46 14
47 12
48 4
49 30
50 7
51 35
52 35
53 30
54 14
55 16
56 20
57 8
58 21
59 9
60 32

61 34
62 6
63 20
64 2
65 4
66 18
67 9
68 22
69 13
70 27
71 1
72 17
73 3
74 12
75 11
76 24
77 27
78 23
79 19
80 29
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:54 PM 2016
I'll update some more,when all the verbal tennis is over
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 34 36
2 27 35
3 24 34
4 26 33
5 36 32 J247 11.02.16
6 6 31
7 1 30
8 15 29
9 18 28 stake
10 3 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 10 26 1 27 36 9
12 4 25 1 26 36 19
13 9 24 1 25 36 30
14 9 r 1 24 0 6
15 24 r 2 48 0 -42
16 16 23 3 72 108 -6
17 7 22 2 46 72 20
18 34 r 1 22 0 -2
19 24 r 2 44 0 -46
20 8 21 3 66 108 -4
21 15 r 2 42 0 -46
22 0 20 3 63 108 -1
23 3 r 2 40 0 -41
24 23 19 3 60 108 7
25 0 r 2 38 0 -31
26 23 r 3 57 0 -88
27 28 18 4 76 144 -20
28 5 17 3 54 108 34
29 5 r 2 34 0 0
30 27 r 3 51 0 -51
31 33 16 4 68 144 25
32 26 r 3 48 0 -23
33 20 15 4 64 144 57
34 32
35 29
36 3
37 13
38 25
39 19
40 35
41 13
42 2
43 0
44 36
45 25
46 9
47 30
48 1
49 22
50 4
51 13
52 31
53 26
54 23
55 20
56 13
57 31
58 0
59 9
60 19

61 3
62 16
63 33
64 32
65 17
66 32
67 27
68 25
69 26
70 14
71 18
72 17
73 3
74 12
75 11
76 24
77 27
78 23
79 19
80 29




Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 19, 08:59 AM 2016
RG thought we might have a losing game today. With 3 repeats straight away and spins 19, 20 also repeat. But can you hear, KEEP THE FAITH, ROFL
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 14 36
2 16 35
3 3 34
4 32 33
5 10 32 J247 19.04.16
6 2 31
7 34 30
8 2 r
9 20 29 stake
10 24 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 14 r 1 28 0 -28
12 32 r 2 56 0 -84
13 32 r 3 84 0 -168
14 29 27 4 112 144 -136
15 19 26 3 81 108 -109
16 9 25 2 52 72 -89
17 15 24 1 25 36 -78
18 7 23 1 24 36 -66
19 24 r 1 23 0 -89
20 19 r 2 46 0 -135
21 30 22 3 69 108 -96
22 23 21 2 44 72 -68
23 17 20 1 21 36 -53
24 25 19 1 20 36 -37
25 35 18 1 19 36 -20
26 26 17 1 18 36 -2
27 27 16 1 17 36 17
28 34 r 1 16 0 1
29 32 r 2 32 0 -31
30 32 r 3 48 0 -79
31 7 r 4 64 0 -143
32 26 r 5 80 0 -223
33 31 15 6 96 216 -103
34 4 14 5 75 180 2
35 8 13 4 56 144 90
36 19 r 3
37 32 r 4
38 32 r 5
39 18 12 6
40 35
41 14
42 35
43 2
44 4
45 7
46 28
47 20
48 14
49 26
50 20
51 17
52 13
53 9
54 13
55 19
56 5
57 3
58 9
59 22
60 14

61 14
62 26
63 21
64 3
65 12
66 21
67 16
68 24
69 6
70 3
71 15
72 1
73 7
74 16
75 24
76 8
77 22
78 24
79 10
80 14
81 20
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 19, 09:34 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 19, 08:59 AM 2016
RG thought we might have a losing game today. With 3 repeats straight away and spins 19, 20 also repeat. But can you hear, KEEP THE FAITH, ROFL
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 14 36
2 16 35
3 3 34
4 32 33
5 10 32 J247 19.04.16
6 2 31
7 34 30
8 2 r
9 20 29 stake
10 24 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 14 r 1 28 0 -28
12 32 r 2 56 0 -84
13 32 r 3 84 0 -168
14 29 27 4 112 144 -136
15 19 26 3 81 108 -109
16 9 25 2 52 72 -89
17 15 24 1 25 36 -78
18 7 23 1 24 36 -66
19 24 r 1 23 0 -89
20 19 r 2 46 0 -135
21 30 22 3 69 108 -96
22 23 21 2 44 72 -68
23 17 20 1 21 36 -53
24 25 19 1 20 36 -37
25 35 18 1 19 36 -20
26 26 17 1 18 36 -2
27 27 16 1 17 36 17
28 34 r 1 16 0 1
29 32 r 2 32 0 -31
30 32 r 3 48 0 -79
31 7 r 4 64 0 -143
32 26 r 5 80 0 -223
33 31 15 6 96 216 -103
34 4 14 5 75 180 2
35 8 13 4 56 144 90
36 19 r 3
37 32 r 4
38 32 r 5
39 18 12 6
40 35
41 14
42 35
43 2
44 4
45 7
46 28
47 20
48 14
49 26
50 20
51 17
52 13
53 9
54 13
55 19
56 5
57 3
58 9
59 22
60 14

61 14
62 26
63 21
64 3
65 12
66 21
67 16
68 24
69 6
70 3
71 15
72 1
73 7
74 16
75 24
76 8
77 22
78 24
79 10
80 14
81 20

Yes you never know when RFH comes. In my old numbers I had the 5 repeats in row in between 11-20 but that didn't the progression recover. But here it comes in 21-30 and that it recovers,  impressive..

Maybe a stoploss after 4 repeaters in row in the spins 11-20? That will be around 300 units. Depends on what we start on..

Otherwise use the same progression and stoploss of 800. What do you think?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 19, 09:36 AM 2016
Next time try

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10

Ktf that
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 19, 11:20 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 19, 09:36 AM 2016
Next time try

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10

Ktf that
RG
I would not use those 10 numbers as you’d be opening yourself up to the 1st dozen. I use Jackpot 247.com Air ball as members say it’s a live spin, hmm, that might be open to debate.
Tuddilue, otherwise use the same progression and stop loss of 800. What do you think? Keep to the +1/-1 and the BR of personal choice.
Back to KTF, in the time I’ve been a member here, I’ve seen some ideas and must say I’ve had my fingers burnt with all of them, on RNG. Ideas like complete a street, MMSIP, supa dupa, and various others, but the one that did do well for a few months was Grandpaa way.
Why do they all fail on RNG, well to me it’s the programmers watch where the RNG is losing and they work out what’s being played, then reprogram so you lose, not always so that they keep you there, they don’t want a source of income going do they.
But KTF handles the RNG with the rules. Remember its using a 37 cycle where all 37 are non-hit’s.
To play the RNG you need to understand the 37 cycle, have knowledge of LOTT and the best bit an average document for the RNG you play, as they alter program the average document shows the changes. I don’t need all the fancy maths as the 37 cycle does not remember.
I await the general, Turbo, Mr J and who ever, like Turbo says, when I play I win.
0X, 1X, >1X  that’s all there is to it.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: 3Nine on Apr 19, 11:23 AM 2016
If you could win starting from spin 1, would you continue to play this way?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 19, 12:56 PM 2016
preferably when 10 non-hit have gone, but i'd say 50% of the time its 9 to 1 in spins 1-10.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 20, 04:16 AM 2016
Like you said RG every body connected to roulette read these boards,like an ex member called Friday the 13th, asked about the average document, then disappeared, like he never exsisted.
Similar game as to yesterdays are Jackpot247.com coming after KTF.
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 6 36
2 34 35
3 27 34
4 35 33
5 22 32 J247 20.04.16 + 90
6 14 31
7 1 30
8 25 29
9 9 28 stake
10 24 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 6 r 1 27 0 -27
12 34 r 2 54 0 -81
13 0 26 3 81 108 -54
14 16 25 2 52 72 -34
15 36 24 1 25 36 -23
16 4 23 1 24 36 -11
17 18 22 1 23 36 2
18 25 r 1 22 0 -20
19 22 r 2 44 0 -64
20 25 r 3 66 0 -130
21 31 21 4 88 144 -74
22 29 20 3 63 108 -29
23 1 r 2 40 0 -69
24 33 19 3 60 108 -21
25 25 r 2 38 0 -59
26 31 r 3 57 0 -116
27 6 r 4 76 0 -192
28 18 r 5 95 0 -287
29 23 18 6 114 216 -185
30 17 17 5 90 180 -95
31 35 r 4 68 0 -163
32 35 r 5 85 0 -248
33 26 16 6 102 216 -134
34 20 15 5 80 180 -34
35 16 r 4 60 0 -94
36 15 14 5 75 180 11
37 35 r 4 56 0 -45
38 0 r 5 70 0 -115
39 8 13 6 84 216 17
40 8 r 5 65 0 -48
41 19 12 6 78 216 90
42 12 11 5 60 180 210
43 11 10 4 44 144 310
44 27
45 14
46 15
47 21
48 6
49 34
50 7
51 8
52 21
53 34
54 1
55 31
56 9
57 21
58 32
59 33
60 31

61 30
62 33
63 17
64 30
65 16
66 33
67 18
68 6
69 22
70 9
71 35
72 34
73 24
74 1
75 6
76 4
77 11
78 24
79 10
80 14
81 20
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 23, 04:10 AM 2016
Here we are betting for the 14th non-hit, 24 units to be used, why 24 units, well if 13 non-hit have come it's 37-13=24.
We only bet twice, spin 1, 24units, spin 2, 48 units, if not hit on spin 2, then its a loss of 72 units.
games 120

tot/spins 178

non-hit 14

1 spin 77 77*24 1848 77*36 2772
2 29 29*48 1392 29*72 2088
3 13 13*72 936
4 1 1*72 72
          4248 4860

120 games
178 spins in them games, all in the avg doc
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 23, 11:31 AM 2016
Here we bet for 3 spins
games 120

tot/spins 252

non-hit 20

spin1 57 57*18 1026 57*36 2052
2 34 34*36 1224 34*72 2448
3 10 10*54 540 10*108 1080
4 11 11*108 1188
5 2 2*108 216
6 2 2*108 216
7 3 3*108 324
8 0
9 0
10 1 1*108 108
           4842 5580
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 23, 12:40 PM 2016
I know you guys  don't believe anyone when we say you're system won't work...and that's ok.
But why are you still testing this by hand using so few sessions/spins?

  Why don't you guys simply code it?

  The way you're currently testing is terribly ineffcient and is subject to unintentional curve fitting.

If you code it, then you can test the data correctly, measure the statistical relevance, and run through 50 to 100k spins/sessions in a very short period of time, and reduce the chance of unintentional curve fitting.

Best of luck.

-The General
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 23, 01:17 PM 2016
Thanks,but i'm no coder. Perhaps you could code it for me.
By the way its only been running for a 120 days, so looks fine to me. Again thanks.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 23, 05:10 PM 2016
Quote from: The General on Apr 23, 12:40 PM 2016
I know you guys  don't believe anyone when we say you're system won't work...and that's ok.
But why are you still testing this by hand using so few sessions/spins?

  Why don't you guys simply code it?

  The way you're currently testing is terribly ineffcient and is subject to unintentional curve fitting.

If you code it, then you can test the data correctly, measure the statistical relevance, and run through 50 to 100k spins/sessions in a very short period of time, and reduce the chance of unintentional curve fitting.

Best of luck.

-The General

Can you please define "won't work"

No curve fitting. Rules are clear.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 23, 06:55 PM 2016
saying it wont work is just a blanket statement

the man has posted daily sheets for months with all his profits

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 23, 07:02 PM 2016
nothing makes me more angry then when people tell nottophammer that it cannot work

day in and day out

sheet after sheet

profit after profit

he had 1 losing session

he never said it will not or cannot lose.

but unless you are blind as a bat it is OBVIOUS the wins more then outweigh the losses with KTF

its a mechanical system so you CAN'T agree.....and we all know that....and noone cares

its a system that works, go cry somewhere else general noone wants to hear you
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Apr 23, 07:20 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 23, 07:02 PM 2016
nothing makes me more angry then when people tell nottophammer that it cannot work

day in and day out

sheet after sheet

profit after profit

he had 1 losing session

he never said it will not or cannot lose.

but unless you are blind as a bat it is OBVIOUS the wins more then outweigh the losses with KTF

its a mechanical system so you CAN'T agree.....and we all know that....and noone cares

its a system that works, go cry somewhere else general noone wants to hear you
Are you using it?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 23, 07:22 PM 2016
I'm looking for a YES or NO.

A one word reply!!!!

So in the 200 years of roulette, in the year 2016, it has now been beat, correct?

YES or NO.......and PLAYABLE at a *REAL* casino (no air ball), when the dealer gives you ten seconds to bet, correct?

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 23, 07:23 PM 2016
Quote from: Turner on Apr 23, 07:20 PM 2016
Are you using it?

no i am not

but i have tested it

i have not played anything for real money recently

but when im ready this is on the list

easily playable for me...airball terminals
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 23, 07:30 PM 2016
@Steve >> Cant we have a SEPARATE section for the PLAYABLE methods in actual life for a REAL (no air ball included) casino? No progressions etc.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 23, 07:32 PM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Apr 23, 07:30 PM 2016
@Steve >> Cant we have a SEPARATE section for the PLAYABLE methods in actual life for a REAL (no air ball included) casino? No progressions etc.

Ken

the man has posted a sheet everyday showing the profit

its playable for him

why is that a bad thing?

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 23, 10:31 PM 2016
@ notto

(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/wrzf9P70YWLJK/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: 3Nine on Apr 23, 10:38 PM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Apr 23, 07:22 PM 2016
I'm looking for a YES or NO.

A one word reply!!!!

So in the 200 years of roulette, in the year 2016, it has now been beat, correct?

YES or NO.......and PLAYABLE at a *REAL* casino (no air ball), when the dealer gives you ten seconds to bet, correct?

Ken

Ten seconds?  Where do you play, Ken?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 23, 10:41 PM 2016
Quote from: 3Nine on Apr 23, 10:38 PM 2016
Ten seconds?  Where do you play, Ken?

Fantasyland is one of the "themed lands" at all of the Magic Kingdom-style parks run by The Walt Disney Company around the world. Each Fantasyland has a castle as well as several gentle rides themed after Disney movies.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tamino on Apr 24, 03:26 AM 2016
Ten seconds. Being  lone player at the table., winning, and a nasty croupier. Not  so unusual.

It was not  in Fantasy Land but at a  B & M upstate New York Casino.Otherwise a friendly place to  patronize .

ND
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 24, 04:30 AM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Apr 23, 07:22 PM 2016
I'm looking for a YES or NO.

A one word reply!!!!

So in the 200 years of roulette, in the year 2016, it has now been beat, correct?

YES or NO.......and PLAYABLE at a *REAL* casino (no air ball), when the dealer gives you ten seconds to bet, correct?

Ken
Dear Ken or Mr J
Back here in old blighty roulette has become a very popular game. Why? Because the Labour party relaxed rules for playing, membership not needed anymore to play in a casino, casinos open 24hrs, FOBT's allowed in licensed betting shops.
Now the time part.
I remember getting membership to play in a B+M in 1994, had to wait for membership, think it was 48hrs, but a couple of members signed a couple of us in. 4 tables very relaxed all smartly dressed unlike today. A spin could take 2 to 3 minutes, could lay your 27 chips go out for a hit and a miss and still might not have spun the little white ball.
But when Aspers opened in Milton Keynes about 4 years ago the spin was comfortable over a minute, but gradually the spin time has come down,Why,I'll tell you, when you can lay 28/27 single units you stand a better chance of winning unlike your 1 unit. So to stop this they bring the time down, what other reason would make the time of spins come down. But at night when its busy and they have to pay out the plasterers the lenght of spin changes, so i/Celtic can lay large group of single units. Even in the afternoons at Aspers the croup has a light by the wheel, when goes green they spin, timescale 1 minute.

So the answer to your question is, yes i can play KTF.  Oh yes i now use touch screen,comfortable seat, no stretching, no chat from the player next to me, perfect.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Apr 24, 05:55 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 24, 04:30 AM 2016
...A spin could take 2 to 3 minutes, could lay your 27 chips go out for a hit and a miss and still might not have spun the little white ball.

Now let's get to serious matters. What is "...go out for a hit and a miss..."?

And how you dare invent a method which gives you profit  :girl_to:
And play it, ...and then even share it?!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 24, 07:19 AM 2016
Quote from: nextyear on Apr 24, 05:55 AM 2016
Now let's get to serious matters. What is "...go out for a hit and a miss..."?the Gentlemans room

And how you dare invent a method which gives you profit  :girl_to:
And play it, ...and then even share it?!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Apr 24, 07:32 AM 2016
One regional addition to nottos English casino. It taxi drivers not plasterers up north. They must be busy souls. No time to shower of use deoderant
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 24, 07:37 AM 2016
Today
jackpot247 24.4.16
1 32
2 4
3 25
4 17
5 7
6 33
7 18
8 6
9 20
10 20
11 22
12 21
13 9
14 17
15 8
16 21
17 27
18 12
19 17
20 27
21 23
22 15
23 2
24 33
25 7
26 0
27 9
28 7
29 20
30 8
31 20
32 24
33 12
34 22
35 0
36 19
37 23
38 12
39 2
40 34
41 11
42 24
43 14
44 1
45 24
46 9
47 5
48 16
49 32
50 27
51 20
52 15
53 16
54 5
55 7
56 6
57 12
58 18
59 1
60 1

61 30
62 2
63 29
64 13
65 2
66 1
67 14
68 11
69 4
70 24
71 13
72 7
73 21
74 1
75 20
76 13

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 32 36
2 4 35
3 25 34
4 17 33
5 7 32 J247 24.04.16
6 33 31
7 18 30
8 6 29
9 20 28 stake
10 20 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 22 27 1 28 36 8
12 21 26 1 27 36 17
13 9 25 1 26 36 27
14 17 r 1 25 0 2
15 8 24 2 50 72 24
16 21 r 1 24 0 0
17 27 23 2 48 72 24
18 12 22 1 23 36 37
19 17 r 1 22 0 15
20 27 r 2 44 0 -29
21 23 21 3 66 108 13
22 15 20 2 42 72 43
23 2 19 1 20 36 59
24 33
25 7
26 0
27 9
28 7
29 20
30 8
31 20
32 24
33 12
34 22
35 0
36 19
37 23
38 12
39 2
40 34
41 11
42 24
43 14
44 1
45 24
46 9
47 5
48 16
49 32
50 27
51 20
52 15
53 16
54 5
55 7
56 6
57 12
58 18
59 1
60 1

61 30
62 2
63 29
64 13
65 2
66 1
67 14
68 11
69 4
70 24
71 13
72 7
73 21
74 1
75 20
76 13
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tamino on Apr 24, 08:23 AM 2016
Quote from: Turner on Apr 24, 07:32 AM 2016
One regional addition to nottos English casino. It taxi drivers not plasterers up north. They must be busy souls. No time to shower of use deoderant



Wow. How  sanitary . Maybe to those  cats  using  a shower or deoderant  is a violation of their civil rights.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 24, 11:29 AM 2016
Quote from: 3Nine on Apr 23, 10:38 PM 2016
Ten seconds?  Where do you play, Ken?

(BTW Tamino, thanks for your comment, you are correct)

Where? There is no "where" as in, which casino is like this. The rookies and the guys that go to a casino twice a year, will be lost (as usual). Its not a coincidence that TAMINO does know whats up.

Meaning, if you are doing VERY well with your method on that day AND with higher chip values, pit will talk to the dealer and the spins will speed up. Its why I play so few numbers (one of the reasons). I've had it before....5 of us at the table and I'm killin it, big time.

The other 4 goofs are playing dollar chips (lol) stacks and stacks and stacks. She went down to ten seconds and would spin, trying to throw me off. It pisses off the other 4 losers and one by one, they get upset and leave the table. Point being? The people here that have no idea what I'm talking about, speaks volumes but I am not surprised. I allow you to think you know what your doing, nothing more. My original question (which got LOST again) was, lets see these awesome HGs here played at a real CASINO (not air ball) with a few seconds to bet, I want to see that.

Dont forget, its not only placing the bets on time but any math that needs to be done as well.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 24, 11:38 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 24, 04:30 AM 2016

So the answer to your question is, yes i can play KTF.  Oh yes i now use touch screen,comfortable seat, no stretching, no chat from the player next to me, perfect.

I didn't ask if you can play it, that was not my question. I asked.....after 200 years, has roulette now been beat in the year 2016? That was the question.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on Apr 24, 11:43 AM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Apr 24, 11:29 AM 2016
. My original question (which got LOST again) was, lets see these awesome HGs here played at a real CASINO (not air ball) with a few seconds to bet, I want to see that.

Dont forget, its not only placing the bets on time but any math that needs to be done as well.
Am pen and paper. Old school. But that doesn't mean I can ask a person carrying a tablet whether he can take notes in handwriting in his tablet. As long as both of us are taking notes in our own way it is fine. 

I used to question t20 cricket saying test match is the real cricket. But have learnt that everything is a sport in its own right. As long as some one is winning and he method is winning how does it matter whether it so casino real wheel or airball or online dealer. Online dealer has so many buttons which can save your bets and make bets which are unplayable in casino conditions playable at the comforts of your home. Everyone to themselves.  I don't want to be a hsbc who doesn't issue contactless just because old can't catch up with new.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on Apr 24, 11:44 AM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Apr 24, 11:38 AM 2016
after 200 years, has roulette now been beat in the year 2016?
Ken do you agree roulette was never beaten before 2016?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 24, 11:45 AM 2016
Beat by what?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on Apr 24, 11:47 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 24, 11:45 AM 2016
Beat by what?
I bet only a Brit can say that
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 24, 11:49 AM 2016
Quote from: Priyanka on Apr 24, 11:44 AM 2016
Ken do you agree roulette was never beaten before 2016?

Never beat (including 2016) in *ANY* type of betting scenario. The difference is, I have the nuts to say it.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 24, 12:17 PM 2016
Ken,you and I must be alike, i dont go to work, i wont travel 35 miles to the nearest casino making around trip of 70 miles a day, but i do travel 3miles to the bookies making around trip of 6 miles.
Like your best bud Turbo when i play i win.
Yes, win.
The only problem is having to use .25p units on FOBT's, but heres the bit Ken i win between £70 to £100 each afternoon on the goofy roulette machine.
Why do i win, well its because i know my machine like the back of my hand, i know its average for non-hits to come in, there max that seldom change after so many recorded games, and the best part i use the trot/count, against 0x's,1x's and >1x's, its so easy to see when to start to bet for a 0x or 1x, but you keep on playing your 1-4 numbers Ken, good luck.

I dont know if doing this afternoon after afternoon means roulettes beat in the year 2016, you tell me.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 24, 12:19 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 24, 12:17 PM 2016
Ken,you and I must be alike, i dont go to work, i wont travel 35 miles to the nearest casino making around trip of 70 miles a day, but i do travel 3miles to the bookies making around trip of 6 miles.
Like your best bud Turbo when i play i win.
Yes, win.
The only problem is having to use .25p units on FOBT's, but heres the bit Ken i win between £70 to £100 each afternoon on the goofy roulette machine.
Why do i win, well its because i know my machine like the back of my hand, i know its average for non-hits to come in, there max that seldom change after so many recorded games, and the best part i use the trot/count, against 0x's,1x's and >1x's, its so easy to see when to start to bet for a 0x or 1x, but you keep on playing your 1-4 numbers Ken, good luck.

I dont know if doing this afternoon after afternoon means roulettes beat in the year 2016, you tell me.

but you CANT be winning they said it wont work!! DUH! only what THEY do works!!!

notto in your world it wins everyday that's ALL that matters
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 24, 12:25 PM 2016
Yes RG its like a game of tennis,someone shows how to win, then they come back, so you show how to do it and still they dont believe, like the General says play the wheel, KTF plays the wheel, Game,set and match.
But we'll have math says bla,bla you cant win, you watch
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 24, 12:26 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 24, 12:25 PM 2016
Yes RG its like a game of tennis,someone shows how to win, then they come back, so you show how to do it and still they dont believe, like the General says play the wheel, KTF plays the wheel, Game,set and match.
But we'll have math says bla,bla you cant win, you watch

the problem is he did not even read the method

he just comes on forums says things cant work and leaves....other forums to not just here

so annoying
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 24, 12:27 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 24, 12:17 PM 2016
Ken,you and I must be alike, i dont go to work, i wont travel 35 miles to the nearest casino making around trip of 70 miles a day, but i do travel 3miles to the bookies making around trip of 6 miles.
Like your best bud Turbo when i play i win.
Yes, win.
The only problem is having to use .25p units on FOBT's, but heres the bit Ken i win between £70 to £100 each afternoon on the goofy roulette machine.
Why do i win, well its because i know my machine like the back of my hand, i know its average for non-hits to come in, there max that seldom change after so many recorded games, and the best part i use the trot/count, against 0x's,1x's and >1x's, its so easy to see when to start to bet for a 0x or 1x, but you keep on playing your 1-4 numbers Ken, good luck.

I dont know if doing this afternoon after afternoon means roulettes beat in the year 2016, you tell me.

I answered that twice now. No, roulette has not been beat. Not by myself or you or any of the 14 HGs posted here. Its 2-4 numbers not 1-4. Again, I'll be heading to the CASINO in a few hours.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 24, 12:35 PM 2016
everyones definition of "beat" is different

in nottos world winning every afternoon it is beat for him

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 24, 12:39 PM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Apr 24, 12:27 PM 2016
I'll be heading to the CASINO in a few hours.



(link:://:.reactiongifs.com/r/d8DEOtY.gif)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 24, 12:40 PM 2016
And how you going to prove you've won. Personally i could not careless if you say you won $3'600 its yourself you need to convice that you win.
What would help some newbies that you like to be-little is post winning method/s, but you seem reluctant now days, is it as i said you need to convince yourself first that you can win.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 24, 12:41 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 24, 12:40 PM 2016
And how you going to prove you've won. Personally i could not careless if you say you won $3'600 its yourself you need to convice that you win.
What would help some newbies that you like to be-little is post winning method/s, but you seem reluctant now days, is it as i said you need to convince yourself first that you can win.

belittle and condescend is the name of the veteran game round these parts
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 24, 12:46 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 24, 12:40 PM 2016
And how you going to prove you've won. Personally i could not careless if you say you won $3'600 its yourself you need to convice that you win.
What would help some newbies that you like to be-little is post winning method/s, but you seem reluctant now days, is it as i said you need to convince yourself first that you can win.

*NO* person here can prove it and I cant prove I lost, correct? Why I dont post decent methods? I answered that already.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 24, 12:48 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 24, 12:41 PM 2016
belittle and condescend is the name of the veteran game round these parts

Dont worry RG, if you play your cards right, I'll put in a good word for you....in 6-8 years that is.
...but for now, back to the litter box you go.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: TurboGenius on Apr 24, 12:49 PM 2016
72 pages - that's impressive, regardless of the content (which I have not read)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 24, 12:50 PM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Apr 24, 12:48 PM 2016
Dont worry RG, if you play your cards right, I'll put in a good word for you....in 6-8 years that is.
...but for now, back to the litter box you go.

Ken

(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/12ClTeBg4yvkiI/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrJ on Apr 24, 12:55 PM 2016
RG....you can post as many pics as you like but you'll never be a winner. Stuff that in your pipe and smoke it.

Ken
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 24, 12:56 PM 2016
Turbo
Dont bother your cohorts seem to think it fails.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 24, 12:56 PM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Apr 24, 12:55 PM 2016
RG....you can post as many pics as you like but you'll never be a winner. Stuff that in your pipe and smoke it.

Ken

K

like all long threads that show some sort of success, the A HOLES come in full force after page 40
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 27, 01:46 PM 2016
Aspers MK 27.04.16  Airball
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 12 36
2 12 r
3 11 35
4 4 34 Aspers
5 19 33 27.4.16
6 14 32
7 25 31
8 16 30
9 16 r stake
10 1 29 non-hit return (+/-)
11 12 r 1 29 0 -29
12 29 28 2 58 72 -15
13 15 27 1 28 36 -7
14 28 26 1 27 36 2
15 34 25 1 26 36 12
16 9 24 1 25 36 23
17 24 23 1 24 36 35
18 6 22 1 23 36 48
19 8 21 1 22 36 62
20 2
21 36
22 2
23 22
24 33
25 35
26 36
27 9
28 8
29 1
30 33
31 11
32 13
33 6
34 34
35 35
36 9
37 22
38 11
39 18
40 35
41 3
42 34
43 15
44 31
45 6
46 15
47 4
48 36
49 10
50 12
51 14
52 0
53 25
54 24
55 23
56 30
57 23
58 5
59 32
60 24

61 24
62 13
63 33
64 16
65 29
66 21
67 29
68 27
69 18
70 34
71 5
72 36
73 34
74 35
75 26
76 17
77 20
78 2
79 27
80 35
81 20
82 18
83 9
84 8
85 21
86 16
87 15
88 26
89 0
90 0
91 27
92 0
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 27, 01:47 PM 2016
Ktf survived b and m airball?

Was it easy to play on airball?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Apr 27, 02:03 PM 2016
Busy as a bee, our Notto!

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: 3Nine on Apr 27, 02:15 PM 2016
Quote from: MrJ on Apr 24, 11:29 AM 2016
(BTW Tamino, thanks for your comment, you are correct)

Where? There is no "where" as in, which casino is like this. The rookies and the guys that go to a casino twice a year, will be lost (as usual). Its not a coincidence that TAMINO does know whats up.

Meaning, if you are doing VERY well with your method on that day AND with higher chip values, pit will talk to the dealer and the spins will speed up. Its why I play so few numbers (one of the reasons). I've had it before....5 of us at the table and I'm killin it, big time.

The other 4 goofs are playing dollar chips (lol) stacks and stacks and stacks. She went down to ten seconds and would spin, trying to throw me off. It pisses off the other 4 losers and one by one, they get upset and leave the table. Point being? The people here that have no idea what I'm talking about, speaks volumes but I am not surprised. I allow you to think you know what your doing, nothing more. My original question (which got LOST again) was, lets see these awesome HGs here played at a real CASINO (not air ball) with a few seconds to bet, I want to see that.

Dont forget, its not only placing the bets on time but any math that needs to be done as well.

Ken

Well, where I play they will change the dealer before they try to speed things up.  I also have no issue backing off if they 'try' to influence my play.  I use 1 spin to determine my next move and have had no issues with the timing of my bets.  Perhaps it's all an illusion, eh? 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 27, 02:27 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 27, 01:47 PM 2016
Ktf survived b and m airball?

Was it easy to play on airball?

Screen was nice and easy with rebet and double up. Should have took a picture. 50 seconds to lay units used one of those fancy pens with the rubber or whatever its made from, well easy.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 27, 02:48 PM 2016
And on the way home stopped in the bookies   +23.25  using .25p units
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 14 36
2 30 r
3 11 35
4 12 34 lads s
5 30 r 27.4.16
6 28 33
7 27 32
8 23 31
9 23 r stake
10 12 30 non-hit return (+/-)
11 26 29 1 30 36 6
12 9 28 1 29 36 13
13 9 r 1 28 0 -15
14 22 27 2 56 72 1
15 3 26 1 27 36 10
16 18 25 1 26 36 20
17 3 r 1 25 0 -5
18 33 24 2 50 72 17
19 0 23 1 24 36 29
20 9 r 1 23 0 6
21 26 r 2 46 0 -40
22 10 22 3 69 108 -1
23 12 r 2 44 0 -45
24 15 21 3 66 108 -3
25 14 r 2 42 0 -45
26 13 20 3 63 108 0
27 8 19 2 40 72 32
28 26 r 1 19 0 13
29 4 17 2 38 72 47 should stopped here
30 18 r 1 17 0 30
31 22 r 2 34 0 -4
32 23 r 3 51 0 -55
33 35 16 4 68 144 21
34 0 r 3 48 0 -27
35 0 r 4 64 0 -91
36 32 15 5 80 180 9
37 5 14 4 60 144 93 out the door
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on Apr 27, 03:43 PM 2016
Hi All,

Just wondering if someone can point me in the direction on the system/rules Notto is posting results on?

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 27, 04:03 PM 2016
            KTF
Never forget that KTF is just betting Non-hit numbers off the mat/wheel.
It starts with all 37 non-hit numbers available.
Collect 10 spins, let’s assume no repeat, so the bet is the remaining 27 non-hit numbers, if win, scrub from your chart of the mat. Now just bet the remaining 26 non-hit numbers, if it’s repeat of the numbers that have hit once, you will re-bet and +1 the units to two units, if the 26 non-hit win, scrub the winning non-hit from your chart of the mat and now bet the remaining 25 non-hit numbers, but you now minus the units back to 1 unit, if the 26 non-hit lost again, then you would +1 the units to 3 on the 26 remaining non-hit numbers.
So the progression is +1/-1
KTF can, using the above progression make £50/60 units.
During the KTF topic it has been said to take an earlier win. This is of course you decision.
So the above is just betting non-hit numbers not repeats.
For repeats, I would suggest you have an understanding of what’s called the trot.
Articles to read that might help.
Gut
LOTT, Law of the third
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on Apr 27, 04:43 PM 2016
Thank you nottophammer for the quick reply!

Just one question what does KTF stand for?

been thought like 42 post and have you had a losing session?? and thats the longest losing run you have had?

Thanks for you help
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JSG240592 on Apr 27, 05:53 PM 2016
Hello All,

I am new to this forum and have found this thread interesting. There are 72 pages and the conversations are confusing me a little. Are we waiting for 10 unique numbers and then betting on those 10 in the hope that 1 of the 10 numbers repeats? Or are we waiting for 10 numbers and then betting the unhit numbers?

I would be really grateful if someone would be so kind as to explain the system to me in a little detail.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 27, 05:54 PM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on Apr 27, 04:43 PM 2016
Thank you nottophammer for the quick reply!

Just one question what does KTF stand for? Keep The Faith

been thought like 42 post and have you had a losing session??Yes, one. and thats the longest losing run you have had? out of 123 games lost one

Thanks for you help
Remember its only betting Non-hit, no repeats.
Repeats, look in WTF
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 27, 05:55 PM 2016
Quote from: JSG240592 on Apr 27, 05:53 PM 2016
Hello All,

I am new to this forum and have found this thread interesting. There are 72 pages and the conversations are confusing me a little. Are we waiting for 10 unique numbers and then betting on those 10 in the hope that 1 of the 10 numbers repeats? Or are we waiting for 10 numbers and then betting the unhit numbers?

I would be really grateful if someone would be so kind as to explain the system to me in a little detail.


Reply 1080
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 27, 06:04 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 27, 05:54 PM 2016


out of 123 games lost one

And that is what its all about. Cant win them all. But i'll take 122 out of 123

Great effort here by you notto
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 27, 06:09 PM 2016
Yes RG must be one coming along, but the BR will stand it, No i have not updated the daily record, but since priyanka said about the £50, its been winning £50/+50, no curve fitting,i like that, why would one want to fool ones self?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 27, 06:12 PM 2016
Oh yeah personally i prefer to use the machine of death, just seems to play better, the trot/count with countback works a treat.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 27, 06:13 PM 2016
To new readers

With $800 or £800 bankroll and $1 or £1 units you will be fine

Based on the results of others

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 27, 06:21 PM 2016
Gzgzbee
Its shows you as UK based. KTF uses the spins from Jackpot247.com on ITV, sky channel 178, on after midnight.
Theres a sheet posted to record spins on page 1.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JSG240592 on Apr 27, 07:22 PM 2016
Nottophammer thank you for your response. Considering on most websites the time to bet in live roulette is around 15seconds (which I doubt is long enough to analyse the last 10 unique and then place bets on the remaining 27). This stratergy you are using in RNG roulette?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 27, 08:14 PM 2016
Quote from: JSG240592 on Apr 27, 07:22 PM 2016
Nottophammer thank you for your response. Considering on most websites the time to bet in live roulette is around 15seconds (which I doubt is long enough to analyse the last 10 unique and then place bets on the remaining 27). This stratergy you are using in RNG roulette?

-JSG240592

Important --- Notto is not looking for 10 uniques.
The Aspers example only had 8 uniques and the Lads had 7 uniques.
He is just jumping in at spin 11 and running with it.
There is nothing to analyze in KTF.

You are right though about the time to lay bets.
This is the reason I can not play KTF at my B&M Airball machine with a 30 second betting time limit.
50 Seconds was tough at times and 40 seconds was stressfull.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 27, 08:21 PM 2016
played KTF for the 1st time this eveneing

on rouletteplayers.org

great results
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JSG240592 on Apr 27, 09:04 PM 2016
Ok I understand now. So this is only going to be possible in RNG roulette? For some reason I have issue trusting RNG roulette, I imagine it to be the same as a FOBT in one of the william hill store.

This method could be applied to streets. But instead of jumping in on the 11th spin You could jump in on the 4th spin. Use same progression and achieve small profits.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 28, 03:47 AM 2016
Quote from: JSG240592 on Apr 27, 09:04 PM 2016
Ok I understand now. So this is only going to be possible in RNG roulette? For some reason I have issue trusting RNG roulette, I imagine it to be the same as a FOBT in one of the william hill store.

This method could be applied to streets. But instead of jumping in on the 11th spin You could jump in on the 4th spin. Use same progression and achieve small profits.
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=16822.msg151908#msg151908
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 28, 05:21 AM 2016
 KTF +49 for the purists +67
jackpot247 28.4.16
1 9
2 2
3 1
4 6
5 16
6 13
7 27
8 15
9 11
10 8
11 34
12 6
13 11
14 2
15 15
16 25
17 17
18 18
19 35
20 31
21 3
22 19
23 1
24 32
25 16
26 8
27 15
28 10
29 27
30 33
31 19
32 36
33 4
34 33
35 3
36 27
37 17
38 2
39 5
40 17
41 26
42 25
43 25
44 19
45 19
46 6
47 18
48 13
49 23
50 31
51 12
52 21
53 29
54 16
55 9
56 11
57 29
58 28
59 5
60 27

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 9 36
2 2 35
3 1 34
4 6 33 J247
5 16 32 28.4.16
6 13 31
7 27 30
8 15 29
9 11 28 stake
10 8 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 34 26 1 27 36 9
12 6 r 1 26 0 -17
13 11 r 2 52 0 -69
14 2 r 3 78 0 -147
15 15 r 4 104 0 -251
16 25 25 5 130 180 -201
17 17 24 4 100 144 -157
18 18 23 3 72 108 -121
19 35 22 2 46 72 -95
20 31 21 1 22 36 -81
21 3 20 1 21 36 -66
22 19 19 1 20 36 -50
23 1 r 1 19 0 -69
24 32 18 2 38 72 -35
25 16 r 1 18 0 -53
26 8 r 2 36 0 -89
27 15 r 3 54 0 -143
28 10 17 4 72 144 -71
29 27 r 3 51 0 -122
30 33 16 4 68 144 -46
31 19 r 3 48 0 -94
32 36 15 4 64 144 -14
33 4 14 3 45 108 49 After a trot like this,stop
34 33 r 2 28 0 21
35 3 r 3 42 0 -21
36 27 r 4 56 0 -77
37 17 r 5 70 0 -147
38 2 r 6 84 0 -231
39 5 13 7 98 252 -77
40 17 r 6 78 0 -155
41 26 12 7 91 252 6
42 25 r 6 72 0 -66
43 25 r 7 84 0 -150
44 19 r 8 96 0 -246
45 19 r 9 108 0 -354
46 6 r 10 120 0 -474
47 18 r 11 132 0 -606
48 13 r 12 144 0 -750
49 23 11 13 156 468 -438
50 31 r 12 132 0 -570
51 12 10 13 143 468 -245
52 21 9 12 120 432 67 for the purists
53 29 8 11 99 396 364
54 16
55 9
56 11
57 29
58 28
59 5
60 27
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: 3Nine on Apr 28, 06:16 AM 2016
-750... oooph.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 28, 06:24 AM 2016
+364 with +6'000 in the br
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 28, 06:45 AM 2016
Have not updated all games better things to do. So heres from 9/4/16 where we win 50/+50 you know why.
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 25 36
2 14 35
3 3 34
4 36 33
5 15 32 J247 9.4.16
6 33 31
7 9 30
8 30 29
9 8 28 stake
10 33 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 28 27 1 28 36 8
12 5 26 1 27 36 17
13 1 25 1 26 36 27
14 28 r 1 25 0 2
15 35 24 2 50 72 24
16 22 23 1 24 36 36
17 32 22 1 23 36 49
18 15 r 1 22 0 27
19 3 r 2 44 0 -17
20 28 r 3 66 0 -83
21 34 21 4 88 144 -27
22 31 20 3 63 108 18
23 34 r 2 40 0 -22
24 21 19 3 60 108 26
25 17 18 2 38 72 60
26 30
27 4
28 25
29 16
30 13
31 20
32 32
33 9
34 31
35 10
36 25
37 16
38 0
39 19
40 13
41 17
42 33
43 11
44 13
45 0
46 36
47 3
48 5
49 32
50 32
51 17
52 14
53 33
54 8
55 21
56 2
57 9
58 0
59 1
60 1

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 29 36
2 7 35
3 33 34
4 3 33
5 33 r J247 10.4.16
6 4 32
7 2 31
8 12 30
9 25 29 stake
10 12 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 27 28 1 29 36 7
12 2 r 1 28 0 -21
13 35 27 2 56 72 -5
14 8 26 1 27 36 4
15 33 r 1 26 0 -22
16 32 25 2 52 72 -2
17 17 24 1 25 36 9
18 23 23 1 24 36 21
19 12 r 1 23 0 -2
20 36 22 2 46 72 24
21 24 21 1 22 36 38
22 0 20 1 21 36 53
23 14
24 4
25 31
26 2
27 16
28 4
29 24
30 19
31 13
32 20
33 0
34 12
35 27
36 20
37 33
38 28
39 12
40 5
41 9
42 7
43 27
44 2
45 36
46 8
47 21
48 0
49 11
50 8
51 10
52 13
53 23
54 18
55 26
56 5
57 36
58 15
59 22
60 23
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 28, 06:47 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 20 36
2 5 35
3 4 34
4 28 33
5 31 32 J247 12.04.16
6 15 31
7 7 30
8 36 29
9 31 r stake
10 26 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 22 27 1 28 36 8
12 31 r 1 27 0 -19
13 29 26 2 54 72 -1
14 8 25 1 26 36 9
15 8 r 1 25 0 -16
16 12 24 2 50 72 6
17 15 r 1 24 0 -18
18 5 r 2 48 0 -66
19 3 23 3 72 108 -30
20 18 22 2 46 72 -4
21 19 21 1 22 36 10
22 32 20 1 21 36 25
23 32 r 1 20 0 5
24 5 r 2 40 0 -35
25 34 19 3 60 108 13
26 25 18 2 38 72 47
27 31 r 1 18 0 29
28 15 r 2 36 0 -7
29 30 17 3 54 108 47
30 12 r 2 34 0 13
31 13 16 3 51 108 70
32 17 15 2 70
33 34 70
34 15
35 8
36 17
37 24
38 1
39 7
40 34
41 33
42 3
43 9
44 5
45 17
46 29
47 31
48 30
49 10
50 3
51 15
52 26
53 12
54 6
55 4
56 34
57 10
58 21
59 28
60 27

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 11 36
2 9 35
3 29 34
4 28 33
5 5 32 J247 13.04.16
6 17 31
7 12 30
8 7 29
9 32 28 stake
10 20 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 20 r 1 27 0 -27
12 10 26 2 54 72 -9
13 22 25 1 26 36 1
14 9 r 1 25 0 -24
15 17 r 2 50 0 -74
16 4 24 3 75 108 -41
17 0 23 2 48 72 -17
18 21 22 1 23 36 -4
19 9 r 1 22 0 -26
20 13 21 2 44 72 2
21 4 r 1 21 0 -19
22 22 r 2 42 0 -61
23 36 20 3 63 108 -16
24 4 r 2 40 0 -56
25 18 19 3 60 108 -8
26 7 r 2 38 0 -46
27 14 18 3 57 108 5
28 34 17 2 36 72 41
29 18 r 1 17 0 24
30 0 r 2 34 0 -10
31 6 16 3 51 108 47
32 9 r 2 32 0 15
33 18 r 3 48 0 -33
34 33 15 4 64 144 47
35 30 14 3 45 108 110
36 21 r
37 24 13
38 11 r
39 23 12
40 36
41 31
42 17
43 21
44 14
45 32
46 2
47 29
48 33
49 26
50 25
51 4
52 8
53 17
54 0
55 1
56 29
57 5
58 12
59 35
60 15
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 28, 06:49 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 14 36
2 26 35
3 7 34
4 3 33
5 28 32 J247 14.04.16
6 18 31
7 6 30
8 8 29
9 18 r stake
10 24 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 23 27 1 28 36 8
12 33 26 1 27 36 17
13 12 25 1 26 36 27
14 13 24 1 25 36 38
15 11 23 1 24 36 50
16 2
17 18
18 21
19 8
20 12
21 1
22 17
23 36
24 16
25 16
26 4
27 7
28 20
29 1
30 22
31 1
32 14
33 21
34 10
35 18
36 19
37 19
38 31
39 19
40 25
41 28
42 17
43 0
44 28
45 15
46 18
47 17
48 20
49 4
50 0
51 16
52 24
53 26
54 6
55 31
56 20
57 2
58 20
59 24
60 3

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 33 36
2 36 35
3 27 34
4 29 33
5 21 32 J247 15.04.16
6 9 31
7 4 30
8 19 29
9 18 28 stake
10 33 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 26 27 1 28 36 8
12 23 26 1 27 36 17
13 33 r 1 26 0 -9
14 20 25 2 52 72 11
15 8 24 1 25 36 22
16 24 23 1 24 36 34
17 18 r 1 23 0 11
18 12 22 2 46 72 37
19 16 21 1 22 36 51
20 9
21 11
22 4
23 9
24 8
25 16
26 30
27 17
28 13
29 22
30 22
31 6
32 15
33 17
34 33
35 23
36 20
37 28
38 27
39 19
40 21
41 1
42 2
43 23
44 5
45 30
46 5
47 6
48 13
49 25
50 12
51 20
52 13
53 11
54 21
55 33
56 4
57 27
58 15
59 24
60 12
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 28, 06:51 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 31 36
2 0 35
3 4 34
4 28 33
5 12 32 J247 16.04.16
6 5 31
7 35 30
8 4 r
9 7 29 stake
10 13 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 25 27 1 28 36 8
12 3 26 1 27 36 17
13 9 25 1 26 36 27
14 9 r 1 25 0 2
15 5 r 2 50 0 -48
16 14 24 3 75 108 -15
17 2 23 2 48 72 9
18 15 22 1 23 36 22
19 35 r 1 22 0 0
20 8 21 2 44 72 28
21 12 r 1 21 0 7
22 3 r 2 42 0 -35
23 30 20 3 63 108 10
24 34 19 2 40 72 42
25 7 r 1 19 0 23
26 1 18 2 38 72 57
27 35 r 1
28 20 17 2
29 0 r
30 31 r
31 16 16
32 9 r
33 24 15
34 23 14
35 5
36 25
37 0
38 19
39 23
40 15
41 26
42 6
43 36
44 33
45 21
46 1
47 19
48 28
49 5
50 0
51 31
52 1
53 2
54
55
56
57
58
59
60

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 1 36
2 19 35
3 26 34
4 28 33
5 25 32 J247 17.04.16
6 9 31
7 21 30
8 5 29
9 10 28 stake
10 28 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 20 27 1 28 36 8
12 15 26 1 27 36 17
13 24 25 1 26 36 27
14 31 24 1 25 36 38
15 23 23 1 24 36 50
16 7
17 19
18 24
19 30
20 19
21 1
22 1
23 14
24 3
25 29
26 30
27 23
28 20
29 18
30 30
31 2
32 15
33 30
34 33
35 26
36 25
37 35
38 36
39 35
40 25
41 29
42 3
43 16
44 34
45 14
46 8
47 21
48 22
49 16
50 4
51 18
52 34
53 11
54 36
55 22
56 7
57 2
58 11
59 24
60 30
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 28, 06:52 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 7 36
2 23 35
3 5 34
4 14 33
5 4 32 J247 18.04.16
6 15 31
7 3 30
8 35 29
9 30 28 stake
10 32 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 26 26 1 27 36 9
12 26 r 1 26 0 -17
13 6 25 2 52 72 3
14 20 24 1 25 36 14
15 20 r 1 24 0 -10
16 16 23 2 48 72 14
17 18 22 1 23 36 27
18 20 r 1 22 0 5
19 33 21 2 44 72 33
20 30 r 1 21 0 12
21 8 20 2 42 72 42
22 29 19 1 20 36 58
23 5
24 27
25 24
26 28
27 24
28 31
29 6
30 11
31 28
32 7
33 22
34 9
35 18
36 10
37 30
38 19
39 16
40 30
41 5
42 12
43 36
44 21
45 1
46 13
47 34
48 5
49 30
50 18
51 23
52 2
53 26
54 29
55 7
56 31
57 24
58 27
59 1
60 21

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 14 36
2 16 35
3 3 34
4 32 33
5 10 32 J247 19.04.16
6 2 31
7 34 30
8 2 r
9 20 29 stake
10 24 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 14 r 1 28 0 -28
12 32 r 2 56 0 -84
13 32 r 3 84 0 -168
14 29 27 4 112 144 -136
15 19 26 3 81 108 -109
16 9 25 2 52 72 -89
17 15 24 1 25 36 -78
18 7 23 1 24 36 -66
19 24 r 1 23 0 -89
20 19 r 2 46 0 -135
21 30 22 3 69 108 -96
22 23 21 2 44 72 -68
23 17 20 1 21 36 -53
24 25 19 1 20 36 -37
25 35 18 1 19 36 -20
26 26 17 1 18 36 -2
27 27 16 1 17 36 17
28 34 r 1 16 0 1
29 32 r 2 32 0 -31
30 32 r 3 48 0 -79
31 7 r 4 64 0 -143
32 26 r 5 80 0 -223
33 31 15 6 96 216 -103
34 4 14 5 75 180 2
35 8 13 4 56 144 90
36 19 r 3
37 32 r 4
38 32 r 5
39 18 12 6
40 35
41 14
42 35
43 2
44 4
45 7
46 28
47 20
48 14
49 26
50 20
51 17
52 13
53 9
54 13
55 19
56 5
57 3
58 9
59 22
60 14
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 28, 06:54 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 6 36
2 34 35
3 27 34
4 35 33
5 22 32 J247 20.04.16
6 14 31
7 1 30
8 25 29
9 9 28 stake
10 24 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 6 r 1 27 0 -27
12 34 r 2 54 0 -81
13 0 26 3 81 108 -54
14 16 25 2 52 72 -34
15 36 24 1 25 36 -23
16 4 23 1 24 36 -11
17 18 22 1 23 36 2
18 25 r 1 22 0 -20
19 22 r 2 44 0 -64
20 25 r 3 66 0 -130
21 31 21 4 88 144 -74
22 29 20 3 63 108 -29
23 1 r 2 40 0 -69
24 33 19 3 60 108 -21
25 25 r 2 38 0 -59
26 31 r 3 57 0 -116
27 6 r 4 76 0 -192
28 18 r 5 95 0 -287
29 23 18 6 114 216 -185
30 17 17 5 90 180 -95
31 35 r 4 68 0 -163
32 35 r 5 85 0 -248
33 26 16 6 102 216 -134
34 20 15 5 80 180 -34
35 16 r 4 60 0 -94
36 15 14 5 75 180 11
37 35 r 4 56 0 -45
38 0 r 5 70 0 -115
39 8 13 6 84 216 17
40 8 r 5 65 0 -48
41 19 12 6 78 216 90
42 12 11 5 60 180 210
43 11 10 4 44 144 310
44 27
45 14
46 15
47 21
48 6
49 34
50 7
51 8
52 21
53 34
54 1
55 31
56 9
57 21
58 32
59 33
60 31

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 26 36
2 3 35
3 4 34
4 33 33
5 19 32 J247 21.04.16
6 5 31
7 4 r
8 29 30
9 15 29 stake
10 6 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 15 r 1 28 0 -28
12 14 27 2 56 72 -12
13 33 r 1 27 0 -39
14 34 26 2 54 72 -21
15 3 r 1 26 0 -47
16 10 25 2 52 72 -27
17 28 24 1 25 36 -16
18 9 23 1 24 36 -4
19 17 22 1 23 36 9
20 6 r 1 22 0 -13
21 0 21 2 44 72 15
22 28 r 1 21 0 -6
23 23 20 2 42 72 24
24 14 r 1 20 0 4
25 35 19 2 40 72 36
26 23 r 1 19 0 17
27 29 r 2 38 0 -21
28 9 r 3 57 0 -78
29 16 18 4 76 144 -10
30 4 r 3 54 0 -64
31 22 17 4 72 144 8
32 1 16 3 51 108 65
33 11
34 19
35 19
36 32
37 19
38 17
39 12
40 28
41 3
42 29
43 36
44 33
45 24
46 0
47 21
48 36
49 17
50 24
51 7
52 5
53 20
54 31
55 36
56 15
57 16
58 26
59 0
60 10
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 28, 06:56 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 7 36
2 25 35
3 34 34
4 33 33
5 24 32 J247 22.04.16
6 22 31
7 30 30
8 34 r
9 28 29 stake
10 30 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 16 28 1 29 36 7
12 28 r 1 28 0 -21
13 0 27 2 56 72 -5
14 36 26 1 27 36 4
15 10 25 1 26 36 14
16 17 24 1 25 36 25
17 1 23 1 24 36 37
18 3 22 1 23 36 50
19 2
20 14
21 28
22 21
23 21
24 36
25 18
26 33
27 35
28 9
29 10
30 17
31 22
32 19
33 32
34 19
35 17
36 29
37 4
38 36
39 16
40 0
41 28
42 26
43 13
44 0
45 22
46 24
47 13
48 31
49 24
50 26
51 11
52 31
53 2
54 8
55 13
56 22
57 10
58 21
59 20
60 33

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 14 36
2 27 35
3 3 34
4 18 33
5 26 32 J247 23.04.16
6 22 31
7 14 r
8 11 30
9 5 29 stake
10 17 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 4 27 1 28 36 8
12 4 r 1 27 0 -19
13 9 26 2 54 72 -1
14 14 r 1 26 0 -27
15 20 25 2 52 72 -7
16 3 r 1 25 0 -32
17 13 24 2 50 72 -10
18 10 23 1 24 36 2
19 12 22 1 23 36 15
20 15 21 1 22 36 29
21 23 20 1 21 36 44
22 24 19 1 20 36 60
23 6
24 36
25 12
26 13
27 36
28 13
29 14
30 28
31 0
32 20
33 14
34 35
35 7
36 15
37 3
38 6
39 31
40 20
41 32
42 8
43 10
44 27
45 2
46 0
47 23
48 13
49 34
50 14
51 7
52 22
53 7
54 9
55 7
56 35
57 10
58 3
59
60
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 28, 06:57 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 32 36
2 4 35
3 25 34
4 17 33
5 7 32 J247 24.04.16
6 33 31
7 18 30
8 6 29
9 20 28 stake
10 20 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 22 27 1 28 36 8
12 21 26 1 27 36 17
13 9 25 1 26 36 27
14 17 r 1 25 0 2
15 8 24 2 50 72 24
16 21 r 1 24 0 0
17 27 23 2 48 72 24
18 12 22 1 23 36 37
19 17 r 1 22 0 15
20 27 r 2 44 0 -29
21 23 21 3 66 108 13
22 15 20 2 42 72 43
23 2 19 1 20 36 59
24 33
25 7
26 0
27 9
28 7
29 20
30 8
31 20
32 24
33 12
34 22
35 0
36 19
37 23
38 12
39 2
40 34
41 11
42 24
43 14
44 1
45 24
46 9
47 5
48 16
49 32
50 27
51 20
52 15
53 16
54 5
55 7
56 6
57 12
58 18
59 1
60 1

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 18 36
2 10 35
3 24 34
4 34 33
5 31 32 J247 25.04.16
6 29 31
7 6 30
8 14 29
9 26 28 stake
10 10 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 5 27 1 28 36 8
12 3 26 1 27 36 17
13 15 25 1 26 36 27
14 12 24 1 25 36 38
15 5 r 1 24 0 14
16 8 23 2 48 72 38
17 16 22 1 23 36 51
18 28
19 25
20 1
21 22
22 5
23 26
24 34
25 31
26 3
27 27
28 30
29 23
30 0
31 5
32 7
33 10
34 35
35 18
36 23
37 1
38 24
39 13
40 35
41 27
42 20
43 10
44 34
45 6
46 8
47 18
48 13
49 13
50 8
51 36
52 29
53 6
54 29
55 18
56 0
57 20
58 22
59 17
60 11
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 28, 06:58 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 27 36
2 4 35
3 31 34
4 2 33
5 2 r J247 26.04.16
6 12 32
7 35 31
8 35 r
9 25 30 stake
10 27 r non-hit return (+/-)
11 9 29 1 30 36 6
12 21 28 1 29 36 13
13 15 27 1 28 36 21
14 5 26 1 27 36 30
15 14 25 1 26 36 40
16 1 24 2 25 36 51
17 18
18 1
19 15
20 27
21 23
22 36
23 12
24 20
25 22
26 36
27 35
28 0
29 26
30 6
31 25
32 12
33 14
34 20
35 6
36 26
37 16
38 4
39 0

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 0 36
2 8 35
3 27 34
4 30 33
5 15 32 J247 27.4.16
6 30 r
7 24 31
8 0 r
9 0 r stake
10 18 30 non-hit return (+/-)
11 2 29 1 30 36 6
12 9 28 1 29 36 13
13 16 27 1 28 36 21
14 1 26 1 27 36 30
15 22 25 1 26 36 40
16 10 24 1 25 36 51
17 24
18 13
19 28
20 7
21 19
22 22
23 24
24 12            
25 10
26 33
27 17
28 20
29 35
30 14
31 22
32 8
33 12
34 12
35 9
36 24
37 35
38 7
39 8
40 16
41 4
42 7
43 30
44 24
45 13
46 6
47 31
48 6
49 29
50 30
51 17
52 36
53 28
54 21
55 6
56 9
57 9
58 29
59 24
60 28
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 28, 07:09 AM 2016
So i need to update 12.2.16 to 5.4.16  but remember still only one loss
Date win lose total
22.12.15 62
23.12.15 56
24.12.15 93
27.12.15 57
28.12.15 69
29.12.15 59
30.12.15 50
31.12.15 50
02.01.16 68
03.01.16 65
04.01.16 57
05.01.16 59
06.01.16 51
07.01.16 50
08.01.16 59
09.01.16 57
10.01.16 50
11.01.16 63
12.01.16 51
13.01.16 50
14.01.16 59
15.01.16 61
16.01.16 67
17.01.16 50
18.01.16 57
19.01.16 57
20.01.16 75
21.01.16 57 1659
22.01.16 629
23.01.16 52
24.01.16 50
25.01.16 65
26.01.16 50
27.01.16 57
28.01.16 57
29.01.16 60
30.01.16 54
31.01.16 56
01.02.16 55
02.02.16 51
03.02.16 59
04.02.16 54
05.02.16 63
06.02.16 238
07.02.16 57
08.02.16 55
09.02.16 62
10.02.16 53
11.02.16 57
12.02.16 38
13.02.16 47
14.02.16 45
15.02.16 50
16.02.16 59
17.02.16 45
18.02.16 56
19.02.16 29
20.02.16 59
21.02.16 45
22.02.16 66
23.02.16 38
24.02.16 51
25.02.16 53
26.02.16 57
27.02.16 50
28.02.16 53
29.02.16 44
01.03.16 52
02.03.16 53
03.03.16 63
04.03.16 45
05.03.16 50
06.03.16 51
07.03.16 41
08.03.16 49
09.03.16 45
10.03.16 47
11.03.16 53
12.03.16 79
13.03.16 66
14.03.16 46
15.03.16 42
16.03.16 43
17.03.16 41
18.03.16 40
19.03.16 50
20.03.16 53
21.03.16 41
22.03.16 42
23.03.16 50
24.03.16 47
25.03.16 75
26.03.16 50
27.03.16 43
28.03.16 47
29.03.16 48
30.03.16 79
31.03.16 59
02.04.16 51
03.04.04 49
04.04.16 49
05.04.16 44
06.04.16 77
07.04.16 79
08.04.16 62
09.04.16 60
10.04.16 53
11.04.16 59
12.04.16 70
13.04.16 110
14.04.16 50
15.04.16 51
16.04.16 57
17.04.16 50
18.04.16 58
19.04.16 90
20.04.16 90
21.04.16 65
22.04.16 50
23.04.14 60
24.04.16 59
25.04.16 51
26.04.16 51
27.04.16 51
28.04.16 64







             7099   629 6470

Since we now have to win 50/+50 units theres a few times it wins 3 figures  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 28, 07:12 AM 2016
Fallacy i tell you! You'll see
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Apr 28, 07:28 AM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Apr 28, 07:12 AM 2016
Fallacy i tell you! You'll see
:lol:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Apr 28, 08:13 AM 2016
Thanks Hammer, very optimistic reading material!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 28, 08:32 AM 2016
Yes is so simple just play of the non-hit.
GzgzBee this is why i play on the FOBT i'm in charge at the speed i have to push the button, not the croupier.

If you going to play on FOBT which is just the same as a live wheel, by this i mean the results of 0x',1x's and >1x's, you will see in spins21-40,  30 spins on avg 15 point something non-hit will show.
Look in real roulette spins UK bookies
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on Apr 28, 04:46 PM 2016
Notto,

Thanks for the information!!

Loving your post and results. Had a read of the GUT....very confussing!! haha!

Your method seems very simple thou which i like, when you say you play in the bookies on the machines I take it this is RNG? Like some people have said betting on live wheel you only get 60 seconds (ish) between spins/bets which would make tracking/placing bets harder.

I had a few questions if you dont mind.

1) What bank roll do you suggest?

2) What is your stop point? i.e 5,6,7,8,9x? (Losing Streak?)

3) When you have a repeat in the first 10 spins i have noticed in your results you simple just bet the non-hit numbers (i.e 10 spins, 1 repeat = bet 28 numbers, 10 spins, 2 repeats = bet 29 numbers?

4) Any other useful info?

Thanks again in advantage.



Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 28, 05:49 PM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on Apr 28, 04:46 PM 2016
Notto,

Thanks for the information!!

Loving your post and results. Had a read of the GUT....very confussing!! haha!

Your method seems very simple thou which i like, when you say you play in the bookies on the machines I take it this is RNG? Like some people have said betting on live wheel you only get 60 seconds (ish) between spins/bets which would make tracking/placing bets harder.

I had a few questions if you dont mind.

1) What bank roll do you suggest?

2) What is your stop point? i.e 5,6,7,8,9x? (Losing Streak?)

3) When you have a repeat in the first 10 spins i have noticed in your results you simple just bet the non-hit numbers (i.e 10 spins, 1 repeat = bet 28 numbers, 10 spins, 2 repeats = bet 29 numbers?

4) Any other useful info?

Thanks again in advantage.

i will answer this, only because i asked notto the same exact questions

-$800 bank with $1 units is sufficient and has only busted one time in over 125 games

-no CLEAR stop point some use $400 or you can go the entire $800

-after 10 spins, bet the non hits
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on Apr 28, 06:40 PM 2016
Thanks for the reply!

Looking forward to testing this system!

I take it RNG and Live roulette will work in the same way!

I prefer live wheels! But may find it hard to track and place bets!

Rouletteghost and Notto - you both have played 125 ish games and only both lost once!?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 29, 05:15 AM 2016
+54
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 12 36
2 2 35
3 31 34
4 24 33 J247
5 22 32 29.4.16
6 14 31
7 23 30
8 33 29
9 34 28 stake
10 30 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 17 26 1 27 36 9
12 33 r 1 26 0 -17
13 11 25 2 52 72 3
14 14 r 1 25 0 -22
15 8 24 2 50 72 0
16 6 23 1 24 36 12
17 21 22 1 23 36 25
18 5 21 1 22 36 39
19 20 20 1 21 36 54
20 4
21 10
22 25
23 25
24 6
25 22
26 16
27 14
28 21
29 19
30 11
31 7
32 28
33 4
34 2
35 26
36 8
37 29
38 36
39 30
40 1
41 14
42 12
43 28
44 18
45 24
46 19
47 24
48 29
49 35
50 16
51 5
52 4
53 8
54 35
55 13
56 11
57 11
58 17
59 31
60 13

61 5
62 18
63 22
64 6
65 4
66 25
67 20
68 19
69 12
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on Apr 29, 05:07 PM 2016
Not sure if I messed up! But first game I test couldn't get out with a profit! Actually ending up -£1000!

Once I got to like step 5 (5 losers) I'd win one lose one, win two lose one, lose two win one and soo on!

Spun 10 then bet on unhit numbers using +1/-1!

All this was free play BTW!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 29, 05:12 PM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on Apr 29, 05:07 PM 2016
Not sure if I messed up! But first game I test couldn't get out with a profit! Actually ending up -£1000!

Once I got to like step 5 (5 losers) I'd win one lose one, win two lose one, lose two win one and soo on!

Spun 10 then bet on unhit numbers using +1/-1!

All this was free play BTW!

-Gzgzbee

Can you post the numbers?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on Apr 29, 06:02 PM 2016
Sorry I didn't write down anything! Just marked on the numbers!

I might have done someone wrong!

Was only my first go!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 29, 06:04 PM 2016
After 10 spins bet the non hits

On a loss +1

As you get a hit remove the number
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on Apr 29, 06:12 PM 2016
See that what I thought I did!!

I won the 11th spin and had +7, but after that it was just up and down!

I will try again...like a said only my first go so prob did something wrong!

Was using a random free roulette website.

How many other people are using this KTF method daily!?

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 30, 05:02 AM 2016
Here's todays sheet showing yesterdays game as well GBee.
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 16 36
2 17 35
3 9 34
4 8 33 J247
5 30 32 30.4.16
6 20 31
7 23 30
8 35 29
9 18 28 stake
10 32 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 21 26 1 27 36 9
12 8 r 1 26 0 -17
13 7 25 2 52 72 3
14 15 24 1 25 36 14
15 5 23 1 24 36 26
16 14 22 1 23 36 39
17 14 r 1 22 0 17
18 2 21 2 44 72 45
19 34 20 1 21 36 60
20 20
21 14
22 13
23 8
24 15
25 3
26 29
27 21
28 35
29 0
30 32
31 26
32 22
33 19
34 5
35 0
36 6
37 6
38 8
39 35
40 34
41 19
42 4
43 6
44 28
45 10
46 28
47 7
48 5
49 13
50 8
51 3
52 29
53 9
54 33
55 26
56 14
57 20
58 17
59 21
60 10

61 30
62 31
63 7
64 1

jackpot247 30.4.16
1 16
2 17
3 9
4 8
5 30
6 20
7 23
8 35
9 18
10 32
11 21
12 8
13 7
14 15
15 5
16 14
17 14
18 2
19 34
20 20
21 14
22 13
23 8
24 15
25 3
26 29
27 21
28 35
29 0
30 32
31 26
32 22
33 19
34 5
35 0
36 6
37 6
38 8
39 35
40 34
41 19
42 4
43 6
44 28
45 10
46 28
47 7
48 5
49 13
50 8
51 3
52 29
53 9
54 33
55 26
56 14
57 20
58 17
59 21
60 10

61 30
62 31
63 7
64 1
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 30, 05:03 AM 2016
Wont be around for a while
Good luck
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Apr 30, 06:11 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 30, 05:03 AM 2016
Wont be around for a while

Whatever you're gonna do and wherever you're going, have fun and come back safe and sound!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Apr 30, 08:32 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 30, 05:03 AM 2016
Wont be around for a while
Good luck

-Notto

All the Best my friend and safe journeys.
You will be missed greatly until/if you return.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Apr 30, 09:30 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 30, 05:03 AM 2016
Wont be around for a while
Good luck
I just want to say that I'm really thankful to you and I have learned alot with both KTF and WTF. My roulette game have improved alot.

Now I'm learning the gut. I have come so long that I'm using it now. Really funny.

Hope you will have it good!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Apr 30, 10:07 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 30, 05:03 AM 2016
Wont be around for a while
Good luck

you will be missed buddy









(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/EOWVPMCalaDpm/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 01, 04:47 AM 2016
Just notice do we not bet on 0 using KFT?

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on May 01, 05:19 AM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on May 01, 04:47 AM 2016
Just notice do we not bet on 0 using KFT?

Thanks
Yes we bet it if it is an unhit.
You are welcome
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 01, 07:52 AM 2016
Would some have a quick look at the attached!?

Done a test game on Sky Vagas low stakes roulette (RNG)

Would have won +34 or + 16 I kept playing.

Just wondering if I was doing it right.

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on May 01, 09:18 AM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on May 01, 07:52 AM 2016
Would some have a quick look at the attached!?

Done a test game on Sky Vagas low stakes roulette (RNG)

Would have won +34 or + 16 I kept playing.

Just wondering if I was doing it right.

Thanks
Yes that looks correct.
You had:
1-10 9 (24 unhits until spin 40)
11-20 8+3
21-30 3-2
31-40 5+0
Unhits so far is 25 so that is average so that is good.
Now I assume that the last 3 should be unhits. But you did not collect them...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 01, 09:57 AM 2016
Thanks for the reply!

Just wondering where would you have stopped as I got to +34 (which is good but only of the +50/60 target)

soo I would have carried on which then I had a few ups and done but got +16

But then would you stop at +16!?

Thanks



Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on May 01, 11:38 AM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on May 01, 09:57 AM 2016
Thanks for the reply!

Just wondering where would you have stopped as I got to +34 (which is good but only of the +50/60 target)

soo I would have carried on which then I had a few ups and done but got +16

But then would you stop at +16!?

Thanks
No problem.  I or someone else always replies.

Yes I would have stopped at +16. Why? Because you where standing at 22 unhit and in the beginning you calculated that you should have 24 before ending.

Then it is easy to start a new game so a small loss or like in your case a small win. I should have been satisfied with that..
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 01, 12:55 PM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on May 01, 07:52 AM 2016
Would some have a quick look at the attached!?

Done a test game on Sky Vagas low stakes roulette (RNG)

Would have won +34 or + 16 I kept playing.

Just wondering if I was doing it right.

Thanks


-GzGzbee

Please do not take my comments the wrong way I am only trying to help.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your tracking sheet is a mess.

To start look at your stake amount at bet 11.
The only way you can have 29 is if you are adding the original 0 back on.
That is fine and how I play but by adding it back in that would mean that spins 11 1nd 12 would both have been winners.
That aside look at your stake amount on bet 12 -- why did you not reduce the stake amount for the win?
In short You need to work on your tracking sheet skills on that sheet.

Had you not added the 0 back in you would have still won +39 and should quit at spin 20

I suggest you redo the tracking sheet to understand what I am saying.

Assuming you added the original hit 0 back on the payout sheet would look like this:
NOTE: The Win/Stop on a Euro wheel playing KTF has always been +40 to +50

-Celtic



GZGZBEE   1MAY16
KTF (ADDING 0 BACK IN FROM ORIGINAL NUMBERS)
S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
1 19
2 11
3 34
4 13
5 0
6 6
7 3
8 34 R1
9 2
10 17 9/10
11 25 29 1 29 36 7 8
12 0 28 1 28 36 8 16
13 0 R2 27 1 27 -27 -11
14 9 27 2 54 72 18 7
15 27 26 1 26 36 10 17
16 33 25 1 25 36 11 28
17 8 24 1 24 36 12 40  ----   WIN/STOP REACHED SO QUIT
18 35 23 1 23 36 13 53
19 29 22 1 22 36 14 67
20 16 21 1 21 36 15 82
21 13 R1 20 1 20 -20 62
22 33 R1 20 2 40 -40 22
23 3 R1 20 3 60 -60 -38
24 33 R2 20 4 80 -80 -118
25 10 19 5 95 180 85 -33
26 18 18 4 72 144 72 39
27 13 R2 18 3 54 -54 -15
28 8 R1 18 4 72 -72 -87
29 11 R1 18 5 90 -90 -177
30 30 17 6 102 216 114 -63
31 26 16 5 80 180 100 37
32 27 R1 16 4 64 -64 -27
33 23 15 5 75 180 105 78
34 30 R1 14 4 56 -56 22
35 16 R1 14 5 70 -70 -48
36 26 R1 14 6 84 -84 -132
37 29 R1 14 7 98 -98 -230



Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 01, 01:19 PM 2016
-GzGzbee

I screwed up some of the stake numbers near the end of the cycle.
I get lazy and do not always check everything in the numbers after I hit the Win/Stop level.
The sheet is the same up to spin 20 which you should have quit by anyways.
Sorry about that.

Here is the corrected sheet.

-Celtic


GZGZBEE   1MAY16
KTF (ADDING 0 BACK IN FROM ORIGINAL NUMBERS)
S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
1 19
2 11
3 34
4 13
5 0
6 6
7 3
8 34 R1
9 2
10 17 9/10
11 25 29 1 29 36 7 8
12 0 28 1 28 36 8 16
13 0 R2 27 1 27 -27 -11
14 9 27 2 54 72 18 7
15 27 26 1 26 36 10 17
16 33 25 1 25 36 11 28
17 8 24 1 24 36 12 40   ---   WIN/STOP REACHED SO QUIT!!!
18 35 23 1 23 36 13 53
19 29 22 1 22 36 14 67
20 16 21 1 21 36 15 82
21 13 R1 20 1 20 -20 62
22 33 R1 20 2 40 -40 22
23 3 R1 20 3 60 -60 -38
24 33 R2 20 4 80 -80 -118
25 10 20 5 100 180 80 -38
26 18 19 4 76 144 68 30
27 13 R2 18 3 54 -54 -24
28 8 R1 18 4 72 -72 -96
29 11 R1 18 5 90 -90 -186
30 30 18 6 108 216 108 -78
31 26 17 5 85 180 95 17
32 27 R1 16 4 64 -64 -47
33 23 16 5 80 180 100 53
34 30 R1 15 4 60 -60 -7
35 16 R1 15 5 75 -75 -82
36 26 R1 15 6 90 -90 -172
37 29 R1 15 7 105 -105 -277

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on May 01, 01:23 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on May 01, 12:55 PM 2016

-GzGzbee

Please do not take my comments the wrong way I am only trying to help.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your tracking sheet is a mess.

...
-Celtic
...
Thanks Celticknits!
I just looked at the average and did not study the sheet in detail, sorry. Next time I be more   accurate.
- Tuddilue
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 01, 01:29 PM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on May 01, 01:23 PM 2016
Thanks Celticknits!
I just looked at the average and did not study the sheet in detail, sorry. Next time I be more   accurate.
- Tuddilue

-Tuddilue

Not a problem my friend.
Hey look I screwed up the initial payout sheet after the Win/Stop was reached and reposted the correction.
Because of all the sheets I do for other people I get kinda lazy sometimes and do not always check the numbers AFTER I hit the Win/Stop.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 01, 04:09 PM 2016
- Celtic/Tuddi

Thank you for your help and advice! Not sure why I had 29  :question: as didn't cover the 0 anyway as it was hit in the first 10spins!

Think I may have had a unit on red/black when I was generating system and pressed repeat or something.

I did notice I had 11 @ 29 and 12 @ 27 but could work it out thou.

Think the hardest part is knowing when to stop!!

Thanks for your help you!

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JSG240592 on May 01, 04:44 PM 2016
I don't think this system is very good. You'd be better off just playing one spin at a time:- Open your roulette game and play 27 out of 37 numbers. play one spin and whether win or lose you leave the table and spin again another day. you could do this once an hour or once a day. You need to hit 3 out of 4 spins to be even. you have a 73% chance of winning each individual spin. The odds are very much in your favour if you spin one spin at a time. When you stay for prolonged periods at the roulette table then that is when the house edge starts to have an effect.

Lets enter the table and play 14 numbers for 1 spin and 1 spin only, we have a 38% chance of hitting our number so 1 in every 2.5 spins we should hit a win. lets make it easier and say 2 out of 5 spins we should hit a win. We only ever play 14 numbers and we only play 1spin each session.


Don't play against the table play against the wheel.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 01, 04:45 PM 2016
01.05.2016 - Skyvagas (RNG)

+25 @ spin 20!

Had 3 non hitter after spin 20 aswell but stopped at +25

Sheet attached.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JSG240592 on May 01, 05:06 PM 2016
I don't understand your method of play. Instructions are not clear, pictures are not clear.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 01, 07:24 PM 2016
Quote from: JSG240592 on May 01, 05:06 PM 2016
I don't understand your method of play. Instructions are not clear, pictures are not clear.

-JSG

I do not know who you are referencing here so I will assume that it is me.
In the future when you reply either push the quote button or start your reply with the name of the individual you are talking to.
Thank you.

There is only ONE method of play for KTF.
The method has been listed step by step MANY MANY MANY times in this thread and have not changed.
The only decision you have to make is whether you want to cover the 0 if it is not in the original sequence.

Please read the entire thread and you will understand what the rules are.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 01, 08:02 PM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on May 01, 04:09 PM 2016
- Celtic/Tuddi

Thank you for your help and advice! Not sure why I had 29  :question: as didn't cover the 0 anyway as it was hit in the first 10spins!

Think I may have had a unit on red/black when I was generating system and pressed repeat or something.

I did notice I had 11 @ 29 and 12 @ 27 but could work it out thou.

Think the hardest part is knowing when to stop!!

Thanks for your help you!

-Gzgzbee

Regarding where to stop ----   I have seen a lot of people saying this lately and it tells me they have not read the entire thread.
The BR is $800 and you play for a maximum of 60 spins.
The Win/Stop is $30-$40 on an American and $40-$50 on a Euro wheel.
Regarding the Win/Stop ---- You can quit at any point you want. That is your decision.
The above parameters are what Notto used for his 100+ games in a row that only lost once.

Below is the payout sheet if you did not want to cover the 0 that is in the initial sequence.

I hope this helps.

-Celtic


GZGZBEE   1MAY16
KTF (WITHOUT ADDING IN 0 FROM ORIGINAL NUMBERS)
S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
1 19
2 11
3 34
4 13
5 0
6 6
7 3
8 34 R1
9 2
10 17 9/10
11 25 28 1 28 36 8 8
12 0 R1 27 1 27 -27 -19
13 0 R2 27 2 54 -54 -73
14 9 27 3 81 108 27 -46
15 27 26 2 52 72 20 -26
16 33 25 1 25 36 11 -15
17 8 24 1 24 36 12 -3
18 35 23 1 23 36 13 10
19 29 22 1 22 36 14 24
20 16 21 1 21 36 15 39   ---   QUIT HERE --Don't get GREEDY!!!
21 13 R1 20 1 20 -20 19
22 33 R1 20 2 40 -40 -21
23 3 R1 20 3 60 -60 -81
24 33 R2 20 4 80 -80 -161
25 10 20 5 100 180 80 -81
26 18 19 4 76 144 68 -13
27 13 R2 18 3 54 -54 -67
28 8 R1 18 4 72 -72 -139
29 11 R1 18 5 90 -90 -229
30 30 18 6 108 216 108 -121
31 26 17 5 85 180 95 -26
32 27 R1 16 4 64 -64 -90
33 23 16 5 80 180 100 10
34 30 R1 15 4 60 -60 -50
35 16 R1 15 5 75 -75 -125
36 26 R1 15 6 90 -90 -215
37 29 R1 15 7 105 -105 -320






Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 01, 08:10 PM 2016
Quote from: 3Nine on Apr 28, 06:16 AM 2016
-750... oooph.

-3Nine

That is why we set an $800 BR in the rules.
It does not happen often but it is gambling after all.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 01, 08:19 PM 2016
Quote from: JSG240592 on May 01, 04:44 PM 2016

I don't think this system is very good.

I fail to see how you can say this when it has only lost once in over 100 consecutive games

You'd be better off just playing one spin at a time:- Open your roulette game and play 27 out of 37 numbers. play one spin and whether win or lose you leave the table and spin again another day. you could do this once an hour or once a day. You need to hit 3 out of 4 spins to be even. you have a 73% chance of winning each individual spin. The odds are very much in your favour if you spin one spin at a time. When you stay for prolonged periods at the roulette table then that is when the house edge starts to have an effect.
Lets enter the table and play 14 numbers for 1 spin and 1 spin only, we have a 38% chance of hitting our number so 1 in every 2.5 spins we should hit a win. lets make it easier and say 2 out of 5 spins we should hit a win. We only ever play 14 numbers and we only play 1spin each session.
Don't play against the table play against the wheel.

With ANY of your suggested changes you are no longer playing KTF.



-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 01, 09:15 PM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on May 01, 04:45 PM 2016
01.05.2016 - Skyvagas (RNG)

+25 @ spin 20!

Had 3 non hitter after spin 20 aswell but stopped at +25

Sheet attached.

-Gzgzbee

Your tracking sheet is perfect except you marked down +27 as your win and said above that you stopped at +25.
That is confusing.
In actuality after spin 20 you have +28.

I think I see what your problem is.
The set rules for KTF state that you start betting at spin 11 and continue to spin 60 or until you hit the Win/Stop or decide to quit earlier.
This is also why the set rules also state that your BR should be $800.

These set rules are very simple and have been stated over and over again in this thread.
If you have not done so already I suggest you read all of the pages.

Here is the payout sheet for this session.
NOTE:  Had you been foolish enough to step outside of the KTF parameters and continue on after the Win/Stop was reached notice the progression reset at 27.

-Celtic


GZGZBEE   1MAY16 (GAME 2)
KTF (WITHOUT ADDING 0 BACK IN FROM ORIGINAL NUMBERS)
S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
1 9
2 32
3 0
4 5
5 5 R1
6 12
7 29
8 19
9 33
10 27 9/10
11 14 28 1 28 36 8 8
12 21 27 1 27 36 9 17
13 25 26 1 26 36 10 27
14 14 R1 25 1 25 -25 2
15 25 R1 25 2 50 -50 -48
16 11 25 3 75 108 33 -15
17 24 24 2 48 72 24 9
18 3 23 1 23 36 13 22
19 3 R1 22 1 22 -22 0
20 10 22 2 44 72 28 28
21 35 21 1 21 36 15 43   ---   Win/Stop of +40 to +50 reached so QUIT!!!
22 7 20 1 20 36 16 59
23 1 19 1 19 36 17 76
24 32 R1 18 1 18 -18 58
25 9 R1 18 2 36 -36 22
26 30 18 3 54 108 54 76
27 24 R1 17 1 17 -17 59
28 8 17 2 34 72 38 97
29 5 R2 16 1 16 -16 81
30 0 R1 16 2 32 -32 49
31 9 R2 16 3 48 -48 1
32 26 16 4 64 144 80 81
33 9 R3 15 3 45 -45 36
34 29 R1 15 4 60 -60 -24
35 11 R1 15 5 75 -75 -99
36 33 R1 15 6 90 -90 -189
37 25 R2 15 7 105 -105 -294
38 5 R3 15 8 120 -120 -414
39 33 R2 15 9 135 -135 -549
40 12 R1 15 10 150 -150 -699
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 02, 06:40 AM 2016
02/05/16 - SkyVagas (RNG)

+30 @ 13th spin.

Attached.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JSG240592 on May 02, 09:08 AM 2016
Could some one please attach for me the initial post were the system is explained in full.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on May 02, 09:38 AM 2016
Quote from: JSG240592 on May 01, 04:44 PM 2016
I don't think this system is very good.

I got a really cool idea for ya: YOU do not have to play it

You could simply close the thread and move on
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on May 02, 10:12 AM 2016
I did not mean that in the context it came off as

By the way

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 02, 10:47 AM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on May 02, 06:40 AM 2016
02/05/16 - SkyVagas (RNG)

+30 @ 13th spin.

Attached.

-Gzgzbee

Actually it is +27 after spin 13 and some of the R listings in spins 31-40 are incorrect.

Here is the full payout sheet.

-Celtic


SKYVEGAS   2MAY16
KTF (WITHOUT ADDING IN 0 FROM ORIGINAL NUMBERS)
S # R Bet P Stake Won Net Total
1 36
2 13
3 19
4 26
5 2
6 22
7 15
8 4
9 36 R1
10 6 9/10
11 33 28 1 28 36 8 8
12 1 27 1 27 36 9 17
13 3 26 1 26 36 10 27
14 17 25 1 25 36 11 38   ---   Possible point to stop
15 7 24 1 24 36 12 50   ---   Win/Stop reached so QUIT!!!
16 3 R1 23 1 23 -23 27
17 5 23 2 46 72 26 53
18 18 22 1 22 36 14 67
19 12 21 1 21 36 15 82
20 25 20 1 20 36 16 98
21 34 19 1 19 36 17 115
22 9 18 1 18 36 18 133
23 33 R1 17 1 17 -17 116
24 7 R1 17 2 34 -34 82
25 12 R1 17 3 51 -51 31
26 17 R1 17 4 68 -68 -37
27 13 R1 17 5 85 -85 -122
28 31 17 6 102 216 114 -8
29 24 16 5 80 180 100 92
30 1 R1 15 4 60 -60 32
31 27 15 5 75 180 105 137
32 11 14 1 14 36 22 159
33 29 13 1 13 36 23 182
34 2 R1 12 1 12 -12 170
35 23 12 2 24 72 48 218
36 24 R1 11 1 11 -11 207
37 8 11 2 22 72 50 257
38 26 R1 10 1 10 -10 247
39 22 R1 10 2 20 -20 227
40 16 10 3 30 108 78 305
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 02, 11:48 AM 2016
-Celtic

Thank you!

How often and how many games have you played!?

Also "thinking out loud" say we spin and 6 lands, we place 1 unit on all un-hit numbers bar 6 and the two number either side on the wheel I.e 34, "6", 27!

Then we simple play -1/+1...

What are the odds of RNG or live hitting the same 3 pockets in a row say 5 times!?

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 02, 01:33 PM 2016
01/05/16 - SkyVagas (RNG)

+29 profit.

Results attached.

Played 4 times now.

+36
+27
+27
+29

Total = +119

My aim is approx £30!

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on May 02, 01:44 PM 2016
Good job

Lets hope before the 1st bust your profits cover it

Good luck and i look forward to your future sheets
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: curiosone on May 02, 01:52 PM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on May 02, 01:33 PM 2016
01/05/16 - SkyVagas (RNG)

+29 profit.

Results attached.

Played 4 times now.

+36
+27
+27
+29

Total = +119

My aim is approx £30!


Whatch out for that RNG,its tricky
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JSG240592 on May 02, 03:17 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on May 02, 09:38 AM 2016
I got a really cool idea for ya: YOU do not have to play it

You could simply close the thread and move on

From what I can see people are claiming have results from this system. I am just confused as to whether this is being used on live roulette/auto wheel or on RNG roulette software only. On live roulette/auto wheel you would struggle to make the bets in time so I'm guessing RNG roulette software only. Which goes against all my believes. Especially for FOBT I have been under the impression for years that FOBT/RNG are programmed to spit out one of two results (win or lose).

I understand the system to be as followed:-

Observe for 10 spins

Make your bets from spin 11 on all the unhit numbers.

If an unhit number appears then remove that number and continue playing the unhit numbers at 1unit.

When you lose a spin then +1 units on all unhit numbers. (2units)

If you hit a win on 2units then decrease your bet to 1unit.

Always plus 1unit on a miss and minus 1unit on a hit.

Spins 11-20 are most likey to show profit.




Are we always playing against the last 10 numbers?

Example:- 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11

As you can see we hit a win on the 11th spin with number 11. Now do you remove number 11 and add number 1 to our unhit numbers? Or do we soley remove number 11? 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 02, 03:30 PM 2016
-JSG240592

You solely remove the 11 from your example! You do not need to remove your first spin!

As you go on and your betting less number as the hit!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 02, 04:13 PM 2016
02/05/16 - SkyVagas (RNG)

+27 (3rd session today)

Sheet attached.

Total 5 session = +146.



Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JSG240592 on May 02, 04:18 PM 2016
RouletteGhost
Nottophammer

I have attached a spreadsheet for my first attempt at KTF.

This is 17 spins. 7bets. finish is +37

At what point do you leave the table?

if you get to 10 watched spins and 15 bet spins = 25 spins

Is this a good time to stop the session? 


I criticise the system before looking at it with an open mind, I understand that this system is working on the basis that in 37 spins you will roughly get 24 unique numbers?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JSG240592 on May 02, 04:25 PM 2016
Gzgzbee

thank you for clarification.

You seem to be doing well.

The problem with most strategies is the recovery rate from a bad session. Have you had a long session yet which has drained your bankroll?

Are you playing with real funds or fun money?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JSG240592 on May 02, 05:18 PM 2016
Attached is my 2nd attempt on William hill RNG playing for fun money. I was told that this system has only failed once in 100 sessions yet its failed once in 2 sessions for me.  What have I done wrong?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on May 02, 07:16 PM 2016
QuoteAt what point do you leave the table?

The better question is why must you leave the table?  Where's the logic?

And once you've left, what magic takes place that enables you to eventually return?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 02, 10:12 PM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on May 02, 11:48 AM 2016
-Celtic

Thank you!

How often and how many games have you played!?

I played about 80 games of KTF and then switched to betting Repeats because I did not like the large DD that happen sometimes to win $30-$40 and then the casino ripped out my single airball machine and replaced it with 2 Fusion airball machines with a 30 second betting time limit.
30 seconds is too little time for me to get my bets out.


Also "thinking out loud" say we spin and 6 lands, we place 1 unit on all un-hit numbers bar 6 and the two number either side on the wheel I.e 34, "6", 27!
Where on earth did you get this from???
KTF only plays for unhit numbers.

Then we simple play -1/+1...
Yes the progression for KTF is +1/-1


What are the odds of RNG or live hitting the same 3 pockets in a row say 5 times!?
I have no idea.
Maybe one of the math guys will answer.
The General should know.


-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 02, 10:56 PM 2016
Quote from: JSG240592 on May 02, 03:17 PM 2016
From what I can see people are claiming have results from this system. I am just confused as to whether this is being used on live roulette/auto wheel or on RNG roulette software only.
Airball and RNG - Euro and American wheels
On live roulette/auto wheel you would struggle to make the bets in time so I'm guessing RNG roulette software only. Which goes against all my believes.
On live you are correct there is not enough time to place the bets.
My Airball used to give me 50 seconds to bet and that was fine.

Especially for FOBT I have been under the impression for years that FOBT/RNG are programmed to spit out one of two results (win or lose).
Notto seems to make FOBT/RNG work for him

I understand the system to be as followed:-

Observe for 10 spins -Yes

Make your bets from spin 11 on all the unhit numbers. -Yes

If an unhit number appears then remove that number and continue playing the unhit numbers at 1unit. -Yes

When you lose a spin then +1 units on all unhit numbers. (2units) -Yes

If you hit a win on 2units then decrease your bet to 1unit. -Yes

Always plus 1unit on a miss and minus 1unit on a hit. -Yes

Spins 11-20 are most likey to show profit. -A lot of the times but not always go back and check some of Nottos Jackpot247 sheets

Are we always playing against the last 10 numbers? -Yes

Example:- 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11

As you can see we hit a win on the 11th spin with number 11. Now do you remove number 11 and add number 1 to our unhit numbers? Or do we soley remove number 11?
1 was already in the betting sequence so there is no need for it to be added. You remove the 11 off the list and rebet the remaining unhits -In your example it would drop your bet from 27 to 26 units

-Celtic

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 02, 11:38 PM 2016
Quote from: JSG240592 on May 02, 05:18 PM 2016
Attached is my 2nd attempt on William hill RNG playing for fun money. I was told that this system has only failed once in 100 sessions yet its failed once in 2 sessions for me.  What have I done wrong?

You quit too soon.
Remember I said before that all of the unhits do not always come in spins 11-20.
Here is an example where that happened.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JSG240592 on May 03, 08:49 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on May 02, 11:38 PM 2016
You quit too soon.
Remember I said before that all of the unhits do not always come in spins 11-20.
Here is an example where that happened.

-Celtic


-Celtic

Attached is a third attempt at the William Hill RNG using ktf again it has failed. You say I am not going for long enough but surely the longer I go on then the more repeats I will see?

Would this not be better played by watching 24 spins and then playing the hit numbers in those 24spins, Using the same progression?

Jay
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 03, 09:38 AM 2016
- JSG240592

Again you need to "keep the Faith"

You only got to a 22 cycle!? if you stop at least spin and just record the next number up to 40 spins.

Look at some of my sheet...i think one i got like 5 repeats 10-20, then 11-30 only got 1 repeat.

I dont like going past 20 so stop at +20-30.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 03, 09:57 AM 2016
Quote from: JSG240592 on May 03, 08:49 AM 2016

-Celtic

Attached is a third attempt at the William Hill RNG using ktf again it has failed. You say I am not going for long enough but surely the longer I go on then the more repeats I will see?

You can not say KTF failed because you did not follow the rules set up for it.
Notto's Averages sheets show that in spins 11-40 there should be 15 repeats and from spins 1-60 there will be 30.
The averages for my airball machine match Nottos.
If you are only using play money try three more sessions running the numbers to 60 spins and see what happens.
If this does not work either then switch to another RNG CASINO OR BETTER STILL PLAY AIRBALL.

As Curiosone said "Watch out for that RNG,its tricky"

Would this not be better played by watching 24 spins and then playing the hit numbers in those 24spins, Using the same progression?
These different options have been discussed many times in the thread and were used to finalize the rules for KTF. As has been stated many times if you step outside the rules set up for KTF YOU ARE NOT PLAYING KTF.



Jay

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 03, 10:12 AM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on May 03, 09:38 AM 2016
- JSG240592

Again you need to "keep the Faith"

You only got to a 22 cycle!? if you stop at least spin and just record the next number up to 40 spins.

Look at some of my sheet...i think one i got like 5 repeats 10-20, then 11-30 only got 1 repeat.

I dont like going past 20 so stop at +20-30.

-Gzgzbee

If you read the entire thread you will see where when people are using a restricted BR ie. less than $800, and do not want to run to 60 spins it was stated people would be best to quit as soon as they have a + total.
In all three of JSG's listed games following this advice he would have won all sessions( +7 +8 +8 = +23).

-Celtic


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: KTFPissa on May 03, 10:52 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on May 03, 10:12 AM 2016In all three of JSG's listed games following this advice he would have won all sessions( +7 +8 +8 = +23).
That would be curve fitting. But in all fairness JSG has played very few spins. Within the numbers you have posted in that excel, if we play continuously we can play 2 sessions. One session that wins 50 and not enough numbers to play the second session. It goes to -330. It has sufficient repeaters, may be it is one of those sessions that tanks.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 03, 11:07 AM 2016
Quote from: KTFPissa on May 03, 10:52 AM 2016That would be curve fitting

Curve fitting.
Love that term.
You are correct because he stepped outside of the set rules for KTF and is trying to make it win.
He is not playing KTF as soon as he tries to change the rules.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: KTFPissa on May 03, 11:15 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on May 03, 11:07 AM 2016
Curve fitting.
Love that term.
You are correct because he stepped outside of the set rules for KTF and is trying to make it win.
He is not playing KTF as soon as he tries to change the rules.

-Celtic
The problem is Celtic even if you play with set rules, it has one winning session and the other one is losing because of the enormous amount of repeats. I am going to reinstate this thread and start posting numbers from where nottophammer left us.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 03, 11:22 AM 2016
Quote from: KTFPissa on May 03, 11:15 AM 2016
The problem is Celtic even if you play with set rules, it has one winning session and the other one is losing because of the enormous amount of repeats. I am going to reinstate this thread and start posting numbers from where nottophammer left us.

My point is we will never know if KTF would have won or lost in any of these three games because he did not follow the KTF rules and run for 60 spins.

What numbers are you going to be posting?
Live spins, Airball, or RNG?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: KTFPissa on May 03, 11:30 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on May 03, 11:22 AM 2016What numbers are you going to be posting?
Live spins, Airball, or RNG?
Same source used by nottophammer. I have been collecting them ever since he has started posting. Hopefully there will not be any surprises.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 03, 11:37 AM 2016
Quote from: KTFPissa on May 03, 11:30 AM 2016
Same source used by nottophammer. I have been collecting them ever since he has started posting. Hopefully there will not be any surprises.

Jackpot 247 sounds good to me.
Can you post from where Notto left off ie. starting with the May 1 numbers?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JSG240592 on May 03, 12:10 PM 2016
Hi guys,

So what your saying is regardless of the amount of repeats and the damaged bankroll to continue to 60spins?.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on May 03, 12:22 PM 2016
Quote from: JSG240592 on May 03, 12:10 PM 2016
Hi guys,

So what your saying is regardless of the amount of repeats and the damaged bankroll to continue to 60spins?.

I would say that mostly your done in spin 11-20. But if to many repeaters come than we keep going till +40/50$â,¬. For everything after spin 20 I'm careful.  Iow if I'm at - 10/50â,¬ I probably stop. Take the loss and get it back next session.  Also read the trot!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JSG240592 on May 03, 12:47 PM 2016
Whats 'the trot'?

I know this is a hard question to answer but do you think RNG will give differant results when playing for fun money? compared to playing for real money?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: KTFPissa on May 03, 01:00 PM 2016
01.05.16   +127 in spin 38


1 0 37
2 18 36
3 31 35
4 5 34
5 9 33
6 29 32
7 7 31
8 34 30
9 10 29
10 34 R 28
11 12 28 1 8 8
12 7 R 27 1 -27 -19
13 12 R 27 2 -54 -73
14 4 27 3 27 -46
15 15 26 2 20 -26
16 12 R 25 1 -25 -51
17 3 25 2 22 -29
18 1 24 1 12 -17
19 6 23 1 13 -4
20 36 22 1 14 10
21 0 R 21 1 -21 -11
22 9 R 21 2 -42 -53
23 23 21 3 45 -8
24 17 20 2 32 24
25 36 R 19 1 -19 5
26 29 R 19 2 -38 -33
27 29 R 19 3 -57 -90
28 13 19 4 68 -22
29 13 R 18 3 -54 -76
30 15 R 18 4 -72 -148
31 6 R 18 5 -90 -238
32 7 R 18 6 -108 -346
33 16 18 7 126 -220
34 28 17 6 114 -106
35 5 R 16 5 -80 -186
36 25 16 6 120 -66
37 22 15 5 105 39
38 2 14 4 88 127
39 30 13 3 69 196
40 0 R 12 2 -24 172
41 35 12 3 72 244
42 6 R 11 2 -22 222
43 10 R 11 3 -33 189
44 20 11 4 100 289
45 33 10 3 78 367
46 11 9 2 54 421
47 35 R 8 1 -8 413
48 21 8 2 56 469
49 14 7 1 29 498
50 17 R 6 1 -6 492
51 4 R 6 2 -12 480
52 19 6 3 90 570
53 29 R 5 2 -10 560
54 32 5 3 93 653
55 9 R 4 2 -8 645
56 24 4 3 96 741
57 23 R 3 2 -6 735
58 18 R 3 3 -9 726
59 13 R 3 4 -12 714
60 6 R 3 5 -15 699
61 20 R 3 6 -18 681
62 23
63 19
64 18
65 15
66 33
67 30
68 0
69 4
70 16
71 36
72 0
73 20
74 24
75 7
76 5
77 33
78 12
79 28
80 17
81 16

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 03, 01:05 PM 2016
Ok JSG240592
Go back to reply 1121 there you will see the Jackpot average document.
In your 2nd game it looks like you are betting for the 11th non-hit, well what a surprise max to hit 4 spins.
game 3 it looks like you are betting for the 14th non-hit, again max of 4 spins to come in.

So build your self an average document for the RNG you are going to play on, once you have a 100 game record your average will begin to stabilize.
I've been to ladbrokes and corals just watched the trot/count, remembered max spin and avg to come in, info from one of the best on here WINKEL,

What you got to remember KTF my grandmother can do its just betting non-hit with +1/-1.
I think you are going to have to study GUT, LOTT, 12 unique in xspins and RNG spins in UK bookies.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 03, 01:46 PM 2016
03/05/16 - SkyVagas (RNG)

+27

Sheet attached.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on May 03, 01:49 PM 2016
Nice but go to +40
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 03, 02:01 PM 2016
Quote from: KTFPissa on May 03, 01:00 PM 2016
01.05.16   +127 in spin 38


1 0 37
2 18 36
3 31 35
4 5 34
5 9 33
6 29 32
7 7 31
8 34 30
9 10 29
10 34 R 28
11 12 28 1 8 8
12 7 R 27 1 -27 -19
13 12 R 27 2 -54 -73
14 4 27 3 27 -46
15 15 26 2 20 -26
16 12 R 25 1 -25 -51
17 3 25 2 22 -29
18 1 24 1 12 -17
19 6 23 1 13 -4
20 36 22 1 14 10
21 0 R 21 1 -21 -11
22 9 R 21 2 -42 -53
23 23 21 3 45 -8
24 17 20 2 32 24
25 36 R 19 1 -19 5
26 29 R 19 2 -38 -33
27 29 R 19 3 -57 -90
28 13 19 4 68 -22
29 13 R 18 3 -54 -76
30 15 R 18 4 -72 -148
31 6 R 18 5 -90 -238
32 7 R 18 6 -108 -346
33 16 18 7 126 -220
34 28 17 6 114 -106
35 5 R 16 5 -80 -186
36 25 16 6 120 -66
37 22 15 5 105 39
38 2 14 4 88 127
39 30 13 3 69 196
40 0 R 12 2 -24 172
41 35 12 3 72 244
42 6 R 11 2 -22 222
43 10 R 11 3 -33 189
44 20 11 4 100 289
45 33 10 3 78 367
46 11 9 2 54 421
47 35 R 8 1 -8 413
48 21 8 2 56 469
49 14 7 1 29 498
50 17 R 6 1 -6 492
51 4 R 6 2 -12 480
52 19 6 3 90 570
53 29 R 5 2 -10 560
54 32 5 3 93 653
55 9 R 4 2 -8 645
56 24 4 3 96 741
57 23 R 3 2 -6 735
58 18 R 3 3 -9 726
59 13 R 3 4 -12 714
60 6 R 3 5 -15 699
61 20 R 3 6 -18 681
62 23
63 19
64 18
65 15
66 33
67 30
68 0
69 4
70 16
71 36
72 0
73 20
74 24
75 7
76 5
77 33
78 12
79 28
80 17
81 16



I would have stopped at spin 37 with +39, or even at spin 24 with +24 after all we have been betting for 13 spins and in a B&m that would be about 45 minutes.

Not that anybody will listen but KTF will win for you but you have to be careful of getting greedy because it will cost you in the end.

Let's ask our KTF Grand Wizard :wink:
-Notto
Where would you have quit on this one?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 03, 02:40 PM 2016
Where would i stop. Exactly where you would stop. Why.
Spins 11-20 end with the avg 7,+2. So prog is low, so i'd go on.
spins21-30 is +0, with the +£24 gone, trot is on schedule by countback as 19th non-hit was just early.
We could have had 5 non-hit in spins 21-30, but got 3, which we usually see in spins 31-40, so yes we are committed to carrying on, or take the hit.
So with Bon Jovi playing in your subconscious you press on, spin 37 take the win and do what ever you do, if thats wait for 60 spins to finish or go to another table, do it.
Like Celts said do not get greedy.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 03, 03:30 PM 2016
I take it playing for +20-30 profit is no issue!?

would you say I'm wasting an extra +10-20 profit a game!?

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on May 03, 03:31 PM 2016
Yess
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on May 03, 03:39 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on May 03, 02:40 PM 2016Where would i stop. Exactly where you would stop. Why.
Notto am watching :).  Thought you were doing 50/50 in my honour ;)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 03, 03:46 PM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on May 03, 03:30 PM 2016
I take it playing for +20-30 profit is no issue!?

would you say I'm wasting an extra +10-20 profit a game!?

Thanks
You know how to play, so you set your win goal, the more you play the more you learn.
Look at this way, its a straight path no thought needed you just remove the hit number using +1/-1.
But the more you play,you will start to think about, what if and what about, thats fine, but it wont be KTF, what you are moving to is WTF, completely different ball game.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 03, 03:48 PM 2016
Quote from: Priyanka on May 03, 03:39 PM 2016Notto am watching :).  Thought you were doing 50/50 in my honour ;)
I'm still doing it, just got bored of updating the old games, but today wins +55  >:D
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 03, 03:58 PM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 0 36
2 18 35
3 31 34
4 5 33 J247
5 9 32 01.05.16
6 29 31
7 7 30
8 34 29
9 10 28 stake
10 34 R non-hit return (+/-)
11 12 27 1 28 36 8
12 7 r 1 27 0 -19
13 12 r 2 54 0 -73
14 4 26 3 78 108 -43
15 15 25 2 52 72 -23
16 12 r 1 25 0 -48
17 3 24 2 50 72 -26
18 1 23 1 24 36 -14
19 6 22 1 23 36 -1
20 36 21 1 22 36 13
21 0 r 1 21 0 -8
22 9 r 2 42 0 -50
23 23 20 3 63 108 -5
24 17 19 2 40 72 27
25 36 r 1 19 0 8
26 29 r 2 38 0 -30
27 29 r 3 57 0 -87
28 13 18 4 76 144 -19
29 13 r 3 54 0 -73
30 15 r 4 72 0 -145
31 6 r 5 90 0 -235
32 7 r 6 108 0 -343
33 16 17 7 126 252 -217
34 28 16 6 102 216 -103
35 5 r 5 80 0 -183
36 25 15 6 96 216 -63
37 22 14 5 75 180 42
38 2 13 4 56 144 130
39 30 12 3
40 0 r
41 35
42 6
43 10
44 20
45 33
46 11
47 35
48 21
49 14
50 17
51 4
52 19
53 29
54 32
55 9
56 24
57 23
58 18
59 13
60 6

61 20
62 23
63 19
64 18
65 15
66 33
67 30
68 0
69 4
70 16
71 36
72 0
73 20
74 24
75 7
76 5
77 33
78 12
79 28
80 17
81 16
82 33

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 31 36
2 36 35
3 4 34
4 1 33 J247
5 6 32 02.05.16
6 13 31
7 32 30
8 7 29
9 34 28 stake
10 0 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 24 26 1 27 36 9
12 34 r 1 26 0 -17
13 33 25 2 52 72 3
14 36 r 1 25 0 -22
15 24 r 2 50 0 -72
16 16 24 3 75 108 -39
17 11 23 2 48 72 -15
18 21 22 1 23 36 -2
19 35 21 1 22 36 12
20 22 20 1 21 36 27
21 15 19 1 20 36 43
22 17 18 1 19 36 60
23 16
24 7
25 35
26 20
27 19
28 28
29 23
30 18
31 3
32 33
33 23
34 36
35 18
36 32
37 15
38 17
39 27
40 11
41 32
42 9
43 26
44 15
45 6
46 15
47 20
48 25
49 10
50 35
51 29
52 27
53 10
54 25
55 15
56 15
57 36
58 36

spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 34 36
2 20 35
3 27 34
4 2 33 J247
5 33 32 03.05.16
6 31 31
7 24 30
8 4 29
9 7 28 stake
10 18 27 non-hit return (+/-)
11 13 26 1 27 36 9
12 28 25 1 26 36 19
13 28 r 1 25 0 -6
14 26 24 2 50 72 16
15 12 23 1 24 36 28
16 35 22 1 23 36 41
17 36 21 1 22 36 55
18 30 20 1
19 8 19 1
20 35 r 1
21 2
22 11
23 29
24 7
25 8
26 6
27 9
28 8
29 32
30 0
31 13
32 32
33 6
34 21
35 26
36 11
37 0
38 4
39 23
40 8
41 18
42 13
43 19
44 13
45 16
46 22
47 21
48 27
49 31
50 13
51 18
52 11
53 36
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: KTFPissa on May 03, 04:16 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on May 03, 03:58 PM 2016
spin   #   non hit   prog   units   win   (+/-)
0      37            
1   0   36            
2   18   35            
3   31   34            
4   5   33   J247         
5   9   32      01.05.16      
6   29   31            
7   7   30            
8   34   29            
9   10   28      stake      
10   34   R      non-hit   return   (+/-)
11   12   27   1   28   36   8
12   7   r   1   27   0   -19
13   12   r   2   54   0   -73
14   4   26   3   78   108   -43
Am glad our results matched. Except that part in red which i believe should read
14  4   26   3    81     108    -46   and rest of the results should add up to 127 when stop reaches.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 03, 04:16 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on May 03, 03:46 PM 2016
You know how to play, so you set your win goal, the more you play the more you learn.
Look at this way, its a straight path no thought needed you just remove the hit number using +1/-1.
But the more you play,you will start to think about, what if and what about, thats fine, but it wont be KTF, what you are moving to is WTF, completely different ball game.

Notto!

I don't feel I am playing KTF any different and shouldn't be a different ball game...I am simple just getting out for a smaller profit! For me £20-£30 per session is prefect! Hopefully I will get drawn into less +1/-1 battles!

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 03, 04:41 PM 2016
Quote from: KTFPissa on May 03, 04:16 PM 2016
Am glad our results matched. Except that part in red which i believe should read
14  4   26   3    81     108    -46   and rest of the results should add up to 127 when stop reaches.

Look at your Stake/Non Hit column at spin 11.
It should be 28 not 27.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 03, 04:42 PM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on May 03, 04:16 PM 2016For me £20-£30 per session is prefect!
Yes nothing wrong with taking 20-30, like Winkel said in GUT you make the decision.
All i was saying after you play for sometime you will probably start to think about,what if or how about, then its no longer KTF.
Glad your winning with it.
Was i right thinking its simple to play, i hope so.

But i must confess i'm more a trot/count watcher than a KTF'er, I disregard all the math quoted to me as i just watch those 0X's and make a decision,from past game play and trot average, which i record for analysis.

Now i wonder how other roulette players have any understanding for the game, when i go to the B+M no buggers recording anything, in the uk bookies the same, so my conclussion is they must all be plasterering chips anyway anyhow anyway they choose
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 03, 05:01 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on May 03, 04:42 PM 2016Now i wonder how other roulette players have any understanding for the game, when i go to the B+M no buggers recording anything, in the uk bookies the same, so my conclussion is they must all be plasterering chips anyway anyhow anyway they choose

Gotta laugh at the plasterers.
I was at my B&M last night and these two players working together next me were looking at my play and saw me cash out with +$101 starting with 10 numbers in just 4 spins betting Repeats. Now I have to admit that when I started betting it was one of those sessions that was just ripe for winning.
They seemed to be convinced that betting 10 random numbers and then just reducing by 1 unit each spin on a loss and using a 4 level Martingale on the next bets was the answer. Boy were they wrong. Last I saw they were down -$950 and I took off like a shot before they got to asking me questions.
Roulette can be so entertaining.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: JSG240592 on May 03, 05:12 PM 2016
To join the post when conversations are so far through and are so in depth it is very confusing for me. I've got the grasp of how to bet can someone now please tell me when to bet? What a 'trot' is? and how to apply this method succesfully in all versions of roulette?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: KTFPissa on May 03, 06:21 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on May 03, 04:41 PM 2016
Look at your Stake/Non Hit column at spin 11.
It should be 28 not 27.

-Celtic
Are you saying teh correction i have suggested is wrong. Are you saying it should not read -46?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 03, 09:26 PM 2016
Quote from: KTFPissa on May 03, 06:21 PM 2016Are you saying teh correction i have suggested is wrong. Are you saying it should not read -46?

Not at all.
I just mistook your Non Hit count as your Bet amount in spin 11.
Sorry about that.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 04, 05:18 AM 2016
spin # non hit prog units win (+/-)
0 37
1 13 36
2 16 35
3 6 34
4 14 33 J247
5 32 32 04.05.16
6 29 31
7 13 r
8 3 30
9 9 29 stake
10 18 28 non-hit return (+/-)
11 21 27 1 28 36 8
12 27 26 1 27 36 17
13 23 25 1 26 36 27
14 14 r 1 25 0 2
15 0 24 2 50 72 24
16 10 23 1 24 36 36
17 20 22 1 23 36 49
18 9 r 1 22 0 27
19 15 21 2 44 72 55
20 33
21 24
22 19
23 36
24 4
25 17
26 12
27 22
28 16
29 32
30 34
31 10
32 14
33 19
34 11
35 21
36 33
37 13
38 18
39 9
40 26
41 24
42 25
43 34
44 22
45 3
46 23
47 9
48 19
49 8
50 13
51 35
52 28
53 33
54 28
55 23
56 12
57 19
58 1
59 16
60 4

61 18
62 21
63 29
64 15
65 5
66 11
67 6
68 15
69 11
70 34
71 14
72 22
73 31
74 15
75 0
76 32
77 36
78 7
79 22

   jackpot247 04.5.16
1   13
2   16
3   6
4   14
5   32
6   29
7   13
8   3
9   9
10   18
11   21
12   27
13   23
14   14
15   0
16   10
17   20
18   9
19   15
20   33
21   24
22   19
23   36
24   4
25   17
26   12
27   22
28   16
29   32
30   34
31   10
32   14
33   19
34   11
35   21
36   33
37   13
38   18
39   9
40   26
41   24
42   25
43   34
44   22
45   3
46   23
47   9
48   19
49   8
50   13
51   35
52   28
53   33
54   28
55   23
56   12
57   19
58   1
59   16
60   4
   
61   18
62   21
63   29
64   15
65   5
66   11
67   6
68   15
69   11
70   34
71   14
72   22
73   31
74   15
75   0
76   32
77   36
78   7
79   22
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on May 04, 07:14 AM 2016
 :thumbsup: notto....


A nice little tool for KTF for testing. All you need to do is populate the spins in the pink column.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 04, 07:34 AM 2016
A big thank you for the above.  :love:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on May 04, 07:38 AM 2016
so.. are you backing an english team to reach the finals today? I am sure turner's team has got an easy task today at really big odds of 6/1.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Drazen on May 04, 07:45 AM 2016
An easy task?

Certainly not when maestro Modric orchestrates!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on May 04, 08:01 AM 2016
Quote from: Drazen on May 04, 07:45 AM 2016
An easy task?

Certainly not when maestro Modric orchestrates!
For the Chilean it will be a game of pride to make history while exiting. The mood of managers reflect a lot in these crunch matches.  I think blues will target to have possession and attack in the front and when they do that it will be difficult for modric  to dictate. He has also been a little subdued after that injury in March and eventhoufh did get the full 90 mins in the first leg failed to impress. Obviously Ronaldo is back but the way city approached the Southampton game says they do have a plan.  At least I for one don't want to see another all Madrid finaL.  If there is anyone who knows Madrid better that would be pelligrini. Both teams will try to press up with special plans for Sergio and Ronaldo and that I think will judge the win or fail of the teams.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 04, 08:03 AM 2016
Some one sent me these #'s from multi player roulette, said with only 30 seconds to bet, no chance, but said,yes if you KTF it wins. The person sent them because of the early repeats.
But thanks to Priyanka the proofs in the pudding. oh yes said time they were playing was yesterday at 23.07.
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 27 37
2 26 36
3 24 35
4 25 34
5 21 33
6 30 32
7 15 31
8 24 R 30
9 31 30
10 16 29
11 26 R 28 1 -28 -28
12 0 28 2 16 -12
13 34 27 1 9 -3
14 24 R 26 1 -26 -29
15 30 R 26 2 -52 -81
16 0 R 26 3 -78 -159
17 34 R 26 4 -104 -263
18 34 R 26 5 -130 -393
19 19 26 6 60 -333
20 3 25 5 55 -278
21 3 R 24 4 -96 -374
22 19 R 24 5 -120 -494
23 13 24 6 72 -422
24 16 R 23 5 -115 -537
25 7 23 6 78 -459
26 5 22 5 70 -389
27 3 R 21 4 -84 -473
28 34 R 21 5 -105 -578
29 36 21 6 90 -488
30 1 20 5 80 -408
31 20 19 4 68 -340
32 16 R 18 3 -54 -394
33 36 R 18 4 -72 -466
34 32 18 5 90 -376
35 21 R 17 4 -68 -444
36 11 17 5 95 -349
37 2 16 4 80 -269
38 5 R 15 3 -45 -314
39 33 15 4 84 -230
40 34 R 14 3 -42 -272
41 35 14 4 88 -184
42 16 R 13 3 -39 -223
43 14 13 4 92 -131
44 30 R 12 3 -36 -167
45 32 R 12 4 -48 -215
46 3 R 12 5 -60 -275
47 30 R 12 6 -72 -347
48 8 12 7 168 -179
49 2 R 11 6 -66 -245
50 25 R 11 7 -77 -322
51 4 11 8 200 -122
52 32 R 10 7 -70 -192
53 23 10 8 208 16
54 0 R 9 7 -63 -47
55 18 9 8 216 169
56 9 8 7 196 365
57 34 R 7 6 -42 323
58 23 R 7 7 -49 274
59 32 R 7 8 -56 218
60 15 R 7 9 -63 155


+169  :twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Drazen on May 04, 08:36 AM 2016
Quote from: Priyanka on May 04, 08:01 AM 2016
For the Chilean it will be a game of pride to make history while exiting. The mood of managers reflect a lot in these crunch matches.  I think blues will target to have possession and attack in the front and when they do that it will be difficult for modric  to dictate. He has also been a little subdued after that injury in March and eventhoufh did get the full 90 mins in the first leg failed to impress. Obviously Ronaldo is back but the way city approached the Southampton game says they do have a plan.  At least I for one don't want to see another all Madrid finaL.  If there is anyone who knows Madrid better that would be pelligrini. Both teams will try to press up with special plans for Sergio and Ronaldo and that I think will judge the win or fail of the teams.

Sorry for a bit of topic but this is how I observe sports events.

I still bet on sports. I really enjoy that.

There is a chinese saying, that out of ten people who bet, 9 will lose. That is also why all the bookmakers can make good money and survive in the business for so long. As long as we can think and analyze differently from the public, we are good to go.

Many today expect an all madrid  final. Very much counting on Ronaldo and Benzema staring this game to at least give some help to Gareth Bale who seem to be doing all alone in a number of games now. The hosts tonight have a great history of doing it at the top level. On recent performance, they are unbeaten in their last 7 games winning 6 of those while on home turf: its 5 staright wins in all competitions since their 0-1 loss to rivals A. Madrid scoring 23 times during that run. For this match, Ronaldo has been declared fit to play although there is still doubt over Karim Benzema after he limped off in the first leg. I also look at odds which are nicely dropping on home team . So everything points to bet on Madrid. Looking at the odds City is way too underestimated in my opinion . So what I do is ALWAYS going  against the flow and having said all the above I ll take the asian line on sheiks today.

No emotions allowed.

Cheers
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on May 04, 08:58 AM 2016
Quote from: Drazen on May 04, 08:36 AM 2016Looking at the odds City is way too underestimated in my opinion
He he.. that was my point :~ Glad we agree!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 04, 09:50 AM 2016
Anybody wanting to see if KTF is for them, i totally recommend downloading Priyankas tester.
Even where the big dogs play it shows +1/-1 betting non-hits wins.
Been checking old RNG bookies games and theres always a win, its like Celtic said dont get greedy.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tomla021 on May 04, 10:06 AM 2016
hate to bring sports into it but lets go manchester city today----- and KTF is great also
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 04, 01:34 PM 2016
04/05/16 - Skyvegas (RNG)

+24

Sheet attached.

Strange game thou in 20 spin had 3 doubles!

Loads of repeats aswell.

Same played for +20/30 profit.

Came in on the 13th spin!

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: curiosone on May 04, 01:48 PM 2016
Nottohammer did a great job,we apprecieate his work and Celtiknicks as well betting the repeats
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 04, 05:13 PM 2016
04/05/16 - Skyvegas (RNG)

+21

Sheet attached

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 04, 05:37 PM 2016
curiosone this is RNG it gets ugly :twisted:
But i kept the faith  :lol:
Remember i have to use .25p units because max bet is £100, so i will be a quarter of the final total, with a trot like that you take the win
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 3 37
2 5 36
3 17 35
4 13 34
5 18 33
6 3 R 32
7 4 32
8 23 31
9 7 30
10 23 R 29
11 6 29 1 7 7
12 6 R 28 1 -28 -21
13 13 R 28 2 -56 -77
14 13 R 28 3 -84 -161
15 16 28 4 32 -129
16 5 R 27 3 -81 -210
17 0 27 4 36 -174
18 20 26 3 30 -144
19 7 R 25 2 -50 -194
20 26 25 3 33 -161
21 1 24 2 24 -137
22 26 R 23 1 -23 -160
23 4 R 23 2 -46 -206
24 0 R 23 3 -69 -275
25 11 23 4 52 -223
26 5 R 22 3 -66 -289
27 0 R 22 4 -88 -377
28 19 22 5 70 -307
29 4 R 21 4 -84 -391
30 2 21 5 75 -316
31 26 R 20 4 -80 -396
32 20 R 20 5 -100 -496
33 24 20 6 96 -400
34 18 R 19 5 -95 -495
35 34 19 6 102 -393
36 9 18 5 90 -303
37 18 R 17 4 -68 -371
38 4 R 17 5 -85 -456
39 6 R 17 6 -102 -558
40 31 17 7 133 -425
41 26 R 16 6 -96 -521
42 13 R 16 7 -112 -633
43 2 R 16 8 -128 -761
44 28 16 9 180 -581
45 23 R 15 8 -120 -701
46 6 R 15 9 -135 -836
47 18 R 15 10 -150 -986
48 22 15 11 231 -755
49 33 14 10 220 -535
50 12 13 9 207 -328
51 15 12 8 192 -136
52 27 11 7 175 39
53 R
54 R
55 R
56 R
57 R
58 R
59 R
60 R

obviously i stopped but i did say if its behind at spin 40, those extra 20 spins we usually see 30 non-hit, 5 on the bounce.
I've got the cotton wool in my ears now, old general know it all, will be giving his bla,bla,bla. I'll just KTF
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 04, 09:44 PM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on May 04, 01:34 PM 2016Loads of repeats aswell.

-Gzgzbee

Glad to see you are sticking to small wins.
They all add up to help build your BR.

AND

Yes there are a lot of repeats in the first 20 spins but they are Double and Triple repeats. These can work in your favour. Just make sure you know how to handle them before ever tackling the Repeats hornets nest or you will get stung.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 04, 09:45 PM 2016
Quote from: curiosone on May 04, 01:48 PM 2016
Nottohammer did a great job,we apprecieate his work and Celtiknicks as well betting the repeats

Thank you.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: curiosone on May 05, 01:28 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on May 04, 05:37 PM 2016
curiosone this is RNG it gets ugly :twisted:
But i kept the faith  :lol:
Remember i have to use .25p units because max bet is £100, so i will be a quarter of the final total, with a trot like that you take the win
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 3 37
2 5 36
3 17 35
4 13 34
5 18 33
6 3 R 32
7 4 32
8 23 31
9 7 30
10 23 R 29
11 6 29 1 7 7
12 6 R 28 1 -28 -21
13 13 R 28 2 -56 -77
14 13 R 28 3 -84 -161
15 16 28 4 32 -129
16 5 R 27 3 -81 -210
17 0 27 4 36 -174
18 20 26 3 30 -144
19 7 R 25 2 -50 -194
20 26 25 3 33 -161
21 1 24 2 24 -137
22 26 R 23 1 -23 -160
23 4 R 23 2 -46 -206
24 0 R 23 3 -69 -275
25 11 23 4 52 -223
26 5 R 22 3 -66 -289
27 0 R 22 4 -88 -377
28 19 22 5 70 -307
29 4 R 21 4 -84 -391
30 2 21 5 75 -316
31 26 R 20 4 -80 -396
32 20 R 20 5 -100 -496
33 24 20 6 96 -400
34 18 R 19 5 -95 -495
35 34 19 6 102 -393
36 9 18 5 90 -303
37 18 R 17 4 -68 -371
38 4 R 17 5 -85 -456
39 6 R 17 6 -102 -558
40 31 17 7 133 -425
41 26 R 16 6 -96 -521
42 13 R 16 7 -112 -633
43 2 R 16 8 -128 -761
44 28 16 9 180 -581
45 23 R 15 8 -120 -701
46 6 R 15 9 -135 -836
47 18 R 15 10 -150 -986
48 22 15 11 231 -755
49 33 14 10 220 -535
50 12 13 9 207 -328
51 15 12 8 192 -136
52 27 11 7 175 39
53 R
54 R
55 R
56 R
57 R
58 R
59 R
60 R

obviously i stopped but i did say if its behind at spin 40, those extra 20 spins we usually see 30 non-hit, 5 on the bounce.
I've got the cotton wool in my ears now, old general know it all, will be giving his bla,bla,bla. I'll just KTF


This are the numbers i provide you? RNG is something special,in a wrong way :))
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 05, 02:12 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on May 04, 09:44 PM 2016
-Gzgzbee

Glad to see you are sticking to small wins.
They all add up to help build your BR.

AND

Yes there are a lot of repeats in the first 20 spins but they are Double and Triple repeats. These can work in your favour. Just make sure you know how to handle them before ever tackling the Repeats hornets nest or you will get stung.

-Celtic

How do you handle then repeats!?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 05, 03:24 AM 2016
Quote from: curiosone on May 05, 01:28 AM 2016

This are the numbers i provide you? RNG is something special,in a wrong way :))
No curiosone i played these last night in Ladbrokes
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: curiosone on May 05, 03:39 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on May 05, 03:24 AM 2016
No curiosone i played these last night in Ladbrokes



A lot of repeats,i think Celtic is smiling :))
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 05, 04:11 AM 2016
With priys tester a lot quicker. Todays game 5 spins done. :thumbsup:
Jackpot247.com 05/05/16
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 27 37
2 5 36
3 31 35
4 3 34
5 19 33
6 28 32
7 22 31
8 35 30
9 9 29
10 24 28
11 13 27 1 9 9
12 34 26 1 10 19
13 29 25 1 11 30
14 12 24 1 12 42
15 10 23 1 13 55
16 6 22 1 14 69
17 27 R 21 1 -21 48
18 29 R 21 2 -42 6
19 21 21 3 45 51
20 30 20 2 32 83
21 15 19 1 17 100
22 24 R 18 1 -18 82
23 18 18 2 36 118
24 33 17 1 19 137
25 16 16 1 20 157
26 13 R 15 1 -15 142
27 23 15 2 42 184
28 10 R 14 1 -14 170
29 25 14 2 44 214
30 28 R 13 1 -13 201
31 9 R 13 2 -26 175
32 24 R 13 3 -39 136
33 25 R 13 4 -52 84
34 17 13 5 115 199
35 29 R 12 4 -48 151
36 9 R 12 5 -60 91
37 29 R 12 6 -72 19
38 4 12 7 168 187
39 10 R 11 6 -66 121
40 21 R 11 7 -77 44
41 24 R 11 8 -88 -44
42 30 R 11 9 -99 -143
43 0 11 10 250 107
44 14 10 9 234 341
45 8 9 8 216 557
46 12 R 8 7 -56 501
47 29 R 8 8 -64 437
48 18 R 8 9 -72 365
49 20 8 10 280 645
50 22 R 7 9 -63 582
51 10 R 7 10 -70 512
52 6 R 7 11 -77 435
53 14 R 7 12 -84 351
54 28 R 7 13 -91 260
55 25 R 7 14 -98 162
56 21 R 7 15 -105 57
57 11 7 16 464 521
58 11 R 6 15 -90 431
59 20 R 6 16 -96 335
60 26 6 17 510 845
61 17 R 5 16 -80 765
62 8
63 9
64 29
65 23
66 36
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 06, 02:31 AM 2016

Whats stopping me from using the system say 50 times a day!?

I.e playing then closing down the game and reopen a fresh session!

As it shouldn't make a different if its 1 game a day or 50 days a game!


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 06, 04:31 AM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on May 06, 02:31 AM 2016
Whats stopping me from using the system say 50 times a day!? be your decision

I.e playing then closing down the game and reopen a fresh session! To me depends on where you play, ie, uk bookies or will it be on-line

As it shouldn't make a different if its 1 game a day or 50 days a game! what is the win target? If you're going to please Priyanka and go for 50/+50, or like members have said take an earlier win
50 games at £50, nice £2500 for a days work, or 50 games at £10, still be £500
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 06, 04:55 AM 2016
Notto.

Thanks for the reply!

Would be using RNG online.

Target is +20/30 units!

As playing 50 session over 1 or 30 days will not increase or decrease profit/lose?

All it does is prolong it!

If soo why doesn't every just play this 50 times a day!

Based on your 120 games and only one loser!

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 06, 05:11 AM 2016
The reason its 1 game a day its taken from the Jackpot247.com roulette program which is aired on sky,ITV 178, most programs give around 60 spins only, thus only the 1 game.
As said nothing stopping you playing as many games as you can fit in your day.

All the idea for KTF was to show how such a simple idea of just playing the 37 non-hit numbers over 60 spins, never mentioned its an HG, just wanted all to see that theres nothing special in KTF, unlike trying to find  :yawn:a bias wheel or bet the # with its neighbors for x spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 06, 05:44 AM 2016
Notto,

I throught you said you only play RNG 99.9% of the time!?

Thank
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 06, 05:54 AM 2016
Gzgzbee
The funny part for me is yes i play 99.9% RNG, even thou J247 is winning +6000 i'm not even doing it, i bet if i set up an account it would lose on my first try, so i'll stick to a couple of hours in the bookies, watching the trot.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 06, 06:11 AM 2016
Haha...

That's true...I played with 1p stake when just testing the method got a lot of 3 hits and stop!

When I started to play for "real" 50p a stake on the same wheel (RNG) I wasn't getting my normal 3 hit winner and go!

Still not lost but..bit more scary.

In your few hours at the bookies is that per day or 3 week!? As if per day is guess you would get a few sessions done.

Thanks 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 06, 10:31 AM 2016
Just going to get the #'s from the recorder, back soon :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 06, 11:03 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 06.05.16  KTF +131  :thumbsup:
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 21 37
2 24 36
3 18 35
4 15 34
5 29 33
6 10 32
7 4 31
8 23 30
9 33 29
10 6 28
11 21 R 27 1 -27 -27
12 27 27 2 18 -9
13 26 26 1 10 1
14 11 25 1 11 12
15 4 R 24 1 -24 -12
16 11 R 24 2 -48 -60
17 31 24 3 36 -24
18 3 23 2 26 2
19 33 R 22 1 -22 -20
20 5 22 2 28 8
21 29 R 21 1 -21 -13
22 10 R 21 2 -42 -55
23 14 21 3 45 -10
24 12 20 2 32 22
25 3 R 19 1 -19 3
26 14 R 19 2 -38 -35
27 18 R 19 3 -57 -92
28 14 R 19 4 -76 -168
29 9 19 5 85 -83
30 3 R 18 4 -72 -155
31 8 18 5 90 -65
32 31 R 17 4 -68 -133
33 35 17 5 95 -38
34 10 R 16 4 -64 -102
35 30 16 5 100 -2
36 11 R 15 4 -60 -62
37 7 15 5 105 43
38 34 14 4 88 131
39 26 R 13 3 -39 92
40 13 13 4 92 184
41 19 12 3 72 256
42 31 R 11 2 -22 234
43 36 11 3 75 309
44 28 10 2 52 361
45 8 R 9 1 -9 352
46 7 R 9 2 -18 334
47 4 R 9 3 -27 307
48 24 R 9 4 -36 271
49 12 R 9 5 -45 226
50 17 9 6 162 388
51 3 R 8 5 -40 348
52 7 R 8 6 -48 300
53 13 R 8 7 -56 244
54 13 R 8 8 -64 180
55 8 R 8 9 -72 108
56 1 8 10 280 388
57 6 R 7 9 -63 325
58 27 R 7 10 -70 255
59 19 R 7 11 -77 178
60 7 R 7 12 -84 94
61 20 7 13 377 471
62 20
63 17
64 7
65 8
66 18
67 21
68 13

But i would have taken the +43
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 06, 09:52 PM 2016
Quote from: Gzgzbee on May 05, 02:12 AM 2016
How do you handle then repeats!?

-GzGzbee

--- Referencing Multiplayer RNG Numbers posted earlier by Notto ---

I would use GUT and start betting at spin 32 and quit on spin 35 with +83.
The nice thing about all the multiple Repeats is that it reduces your bet amount if only going for single Repeats.
In this case the bet amount was only 11u.

If I had run into a session like this in real life I would not have played a second time without serious testing
Look at the count over 40 spins ---  10/10,  4 -1,  9 -1,  14 -1 --- If you were not aware it was RNG before you sure should be now.

If you want to pursue repeats further please post in the WTF thread.
Thank you.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 07, 10:03 AM 2016
Jackpot247.com 07.05.16 KTF +106
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 11 37
2 21 36
3 14 35
4 14 R 34
5 27 34
6 9 33
7 36 32
8 33 31
9 30 30
10 29 29
11 2 28 1 8 8
12 26 27 1 9 17
13 14 R 26 1 -26 -9
14 24 26 2 20 11
15 7 25 1 11 22
16 7 R 24 1 -24 -2
17 9 R 24 2 -48 -50
18 4 24 3 36 -14
19 30 R 23 2 -46 -60
20 36 R 23 3 -69 -129
21 35 23 4 52 -77
22 25 22 3 42 -35
23 10 21 2 30 -5
24 30 R 20 1 -20 -25
25 13 20 2 32 7
26 29 R 19 1 -19 -12
27 19 19 2 34 22
28 30 R 18 1 -18 4
29 26 R 18 2 -36 -32
30 33 R 18 3 -54 -86
31 18 18 4 72 -14
32 24 R 17 3 -51 -65
33 20 17 4 76 11
34 11 R 16 3 -48 -37
35 0 16 4 80 43
36 12 15 3 63 106
37 29 R 14 2 -28 78
38 31 14 3 66 144
39 12 R 13 2 -26 118
40 30 R 13 3 -39 79
41 23 13 4 92 171
42 5 12 3 72 243
43 33 R 11 2 -22 221
44 26 R 11 3 -33 188
45 10 R 11 4 -44 144
46 36 R 11 5 -55 89
47 23 R 11 6 -66 23
48 22 11 7 175 198
49 24 R 10 6 -60 138
50 26 R 10 7 -70 68
51 36 R 10 8 -80 -12
52 29 R 10 9 -90 -102
53 6 10 10 260 158
54 1 9 9 243 401
55 19 R 8 8 -64 337
56 25 R 8 9 -72 265
57 7 R 8 10 -80 185
58 R
59 R
60 R

But i'd taken the +43
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: curiosone on May 07, 11:03 AM 2016
 Seems that my faith is not enough :))) bust after 10 sessions real money

22
6
20
24
10
33
9
12
8
31    10/10

21
6  R
16
31 R
16 R
15
9   R
12 R
36
26     5/0

6 R
20 R
3
15 R
35
18
26 R
20 R
1
12 R     9-1

24 R
26 R
29
24 R
3 R
26 R
24 R
6 R  banckroll vanished :)
34
3 R

no need for further spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 07, 11:07 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on May 07, 10:03 AM 2016

Jackpot247.com 07.05.16 KTF +106
But i'd taken the +43

Me too.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on May 07, 11:10 AM 2016
Curve fitting alert
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on May 07, 11:25 AM 2016
Quote from: The General on May 07, 11:10 AM 2016
Curve fitting alert

As Steve explained to us before, your advices are very useful.

And contributive! You must be proud!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on May 07, 11:26 AM 2016
 :xd:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on May 07, 11:32 AM 2016
Quote from: The General on May 07, 11:10 AM 2016
Curve fitting alert
You can start with answering our questions to you?
Curve fitting,  do you mean that you are doing that?
- Tuddilue
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 07, 11:35 AM 2016
If you ignore him,like a bad smell it goes away.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on May 07, 12:01 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on May 07, 11:35 AM 2016
If you ignore him, like a bad smell it goes away.

Would be nice, but I doubt it, as he really enjoys attention.

My son was like that when he was 2-3 years old, but he grew out of it.

When it catches you in old days, it's like: "Yes, I'm so naughty, wow!"
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 07, 12:10 PM 2016
Quote from: curiosone on May 07, 11:03 AM 2016
Seems that my faith is not enough :))) bust after 10 sessions real money

22
6
20
24
10
33
9
12
8
31    10/10

21
6  R
16
31 R
16 R
15
9   R
12 R
36
26     5/0

6 R
20 R
3
15 R
35
18
26 R
20 R
1
12 R     9-1

24 R
26 R
29
24 R
3 R
26 R
24 R
6 R  banckroll vanished :)
34
3 R

no need for further spins
So your RNG gives you more repeats so you might as well WTF, then your rng will give you more non-hit, if that happens perhaps you'd better find another site, as it would then seem untrust worthy.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: curiosone on May 07, 12:19 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on May 07, 12:10 PM 2016
So your RNG gives you more repeats so you might as well WTF, then your rng will give you more non-hit, if that happens perhaps you'd better find another site, as it would then seem untrust worthy.



Hy Notto,it was on a live wheel
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 07, 12:26 PM 2016
Quote from: curiosone on May 07, 12:19 PM 2016


Hy Notto,it was on a live wheel

On a live wheel???
17 Repeats in a spin cycle and more than half of them (9) are multiple repeats.
Something, other than that other bad smell around here, seems off.

One question:
What happened to the $800 BR.
Would have been nice to see if that had bust also in 60 spins.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: curiosone on May 07, 12:28 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on May 07, 12:26 PM 2016
On a live wheel???
17 Repeats in a spin cycle and more than half of them (9) are multiple repeats.
Something, other than that other smell around here, seems off.

One question:
What happened to the $800 BR.
Would have been nice to see if that had bust also in 60 spins.


Bust at spin 38,yes live wheel smartlivecasino

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 07, 12:48 PM 2016
Quote from: curiosone on May 07, 12:28 PM 2016Bust at spin 38,yes live wheel smartlivecasino

I see it now.

You have more patience than I do.
At spin 28 - 30 you must have been playing for an hour.
Sometimes maybe it is best to stop fishing and start cutting bait.
Maybe we can add that into the rules.

Sorry to hear you busted out on this one.
What do you plan doing now?

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 08, 06:10 AM 2016
Today +123
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 35 37
2 17 36
3 17 R 35
4 26 35
5 2 34
6 22 33
7 13 32
8 7 31
9 1 30
10 36 29
11 18 28 1 8 8
12 23 27 1 9 17
13 21 26 1 10 27
14 22 R 25 1 -25 2
15 35 R 25 2 -50 -48
16 31 25 3 33 -15
17 32 24 2 24 9
18 7 R 23 1 -23 -14
19 15 23 2 26 12
20 28 22 1 14 26
21 28 R 21 1 -21 5
22 31 R 21 2 -42 -37
23 25 21 3 45 8
24 36 R 20 2 -40 -32
25 35 R 20 3 -60 -92
26 19 20 4 64 -28
27 2 R 19 3 -57 -85
28 12 19 4 68 -17
29 22 R 18 3 -54 -71
30 22 R 18 4 -72 -143
31 36 R 18 5 -90 -233
32 6 18 6 108 -125
33 34 17 5 95 -30
34 22 R 16 4 -64 -94
35 28 R 16 5 -80 -174
36 36 R 16 6 -96 -270
37 0 16 7 140 -130
38 35 R 15 6 -90 -220
39 2 R 15 7 -105 -325
40 15 R 15 8 -120 -445
41 12 R 15 9 -135 -580
42 16 15 10 210 -370
43 27 14 9 198 -172
44 27 R 13 8 -104 -276
45 3 13 9 207 -69
46 5 12 8 192 123
47 27 R 11 7 -77 46
48 15 R 11 8 -88 -42
49 9 11 9 225 183
50 13 R 10 8 -80 103
51 9 R 10 9 -90 13
52 33 10 10 260 273
53 22 R 9 9 -81 192
54 11 9 10 270 462
55 0 R 8 9 -72 390
56 27 R 8 10 -80 310
57 31 R 8 11 -88 222
58 12 R 8 12 -96 126
59 24 8 13 364 490
60 2 R 7 12 -84 406
61 8 7 13 377 783
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 09, 07:32 AM 2016
Today KTF +54
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 10 37
2 33 36
3 17 35
4 36 34
5 34 33
6 10 R 32
7 35 32
8 29 31
9 20 30
10 6 29
11 20 R 28 1 -28 -28
12 2 28 2 16 -12
13 32 27 1 9 -3
14 19 26 1 10 7
15 36 R 25 1 -25 -18
16 26 25 2 22 4
17 23 24 1 12 16
18 22 23 1 13 29
19 3 22 1 14 43
20 33 R 21 1 -21 22
21 33 R 21 2 -42 -20
22 15 21 3 45 25
23 36 R 20 2 -40 -15
24 19 R 20 3 -60 -75
25 33 R 20 4 -80 -155
26 23 R 20 5 -100 -255
27 21 20 6 96 -159
28 28 19 5 85 -74
29 1 18 4 72 -2
30 33 R 17 3 -51 -53
31 3 R 17 4 -68 -121
32 14 17 5 95 -26
33 8 16 4 80 54
34 15 R 15 3 -45 9
35 21 R 15 4 -60 -51
36 5 15 5 105 54
37 15 R 14 4 -56 -2
38 0 14 5 110 108
39 10 R 13 4 -52 56
40 36 R 13 5 -65 -9
41 13 13 6 138 129
42 25 12 5 120 249
43 4 11 4 100 349
44 12 10 3 78 427
45 27 9 2 54 481
46 6 R 8 1 -8 473
47 35 R 8 2 -16 457
48 5 R 8 3 -24 433
49 25 R 8 4 -32 401
50 30 8 5 140 541
51 21 R 7 4 -28 513
52 33 R 7 5 -35 478
53 4 R 7 6 -42 436
54 31 7 7 203 639
55 15 R 6 6 -36 603
56 4 R 6 7 -42 561
57 0 R 6 8 -48 513
58 19 R 6 9 -54 459
59 0 R 6 10 -60 399
60 20 R 6 11 -66 333
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 09, 12:12 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on May 09, 07:32 AM 2016
Today KTF +54
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 10 37
2 33 36
3 17 35
4 36 34
5 34 33
6 10 R 32
7 35 32
8 29 31
9 20 30
10 6 29
11 20 R 28 1 -28 -28
12 2 28 2 16 -12
13 32 27 1 9 -3
14 19 26 1 10 7
15 36 R 25 1 -25 -18
16 26 25 2 22 4
17 23 24 1 12 16
18 22 23 1 13 29
19 3 22 1 14 43
20 33 R 21 1 -21 22
21 33 R 21 2 -42 -20
22 15 21 3 45 25
23 36 R 20 2 -40 -15
24 19 R 20 3 -60 -75
25 33 R 20 4 -80 -155
26 23 R 20 5 -100 -255
27 21 20 6 96 -159
28 28 19 5 85 -74
29 1 18 4 72 -2
30 33 R 17 3 -51 -53
31 3 R 17 4 -68 -121
32 14 17 5 95 -26
33 8 16 4 80 54
34 15 R 15 3 -45 9
35 21 R 15 4 -60 -51
36 5 15 5 105 54
37 15 R 14 4 -56 -2
38 0 14 5 110 108
39 10 R 13 4 -52 56
40 36 R 13 5 -65 -9
41 13 13 6 138 129
42 25 12 5 120 249
43 4 11 4 100 349
44 12 10 3 78 427
45 27 9 2 54 481
46 6 R 8 1 -8 473
47 35 R 8 2 -16 457
48 5 R 8 3 -24 433
49 25 R 8 4 -32 401
50 30 8 5 140 541
51 21 R 7 4 -28 513
52 33 R 7 5 -35 478
53 4 R 7 6 -42 436
54 31 7 7 203 639
55 15 R 6 6 -36 603
56 4 R 6 7 -42 561
57 0 R 6 8 -48 513
58 19 R 6 9 -54 459
59 0 R 6 10 -60 399
60 20 R 6 11 -66 333


-Notto

Thank You.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 10, 05:14 AM 2016
Today KTF +53
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 9 37
2 18 36
3 11 35
4 1 34
5 10 33
6 1 R 32
7 0 32
8 26 31
9 17 30
10 32 29
11 36 28 1 8 8
12 3 27 1 9 17
13 16 26 1 10 27
14 26 R 25 1 -25 2
15 19 25 2 22 24
16 35 24 1 12 36
17 1 R 23 1 -23 13
18 15 23 2 26 39
19 23 22 1 14 53
20 32 R 21 1 -21 32
21 27 21 2 30 62
22 34 20 1 16 78
23 30 19 1 17 95
24 30 R 18 1 -18 77
25 21 18 2 36 113
26 18 R 17 1 -17 96
27 17 R 17 2 -34 62
28 5 17 3 57 119
29 23 R 16 2 -32 87
30 28 16 3 60 147
31 36 R 15 2 -30 117
32 26 R 15 3 -45 72
33 31 15 4 84 156
34 3 R 14 3 -42 114
35 32 R 14 4 -56 58
36 29 14 5 110 168
37 11 R 13 4 -52 116
38 14 13 5 115 231
39 14 R 12 4 -48 183
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 11, 04:33 AM 2016
11.05.16  KTF +61
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 23 37
2 0 36
3 31 35
4 1 34
5 11 33
6 11 R 32
7 35 32
8 24 31
9 17 30
10 16 29
11 9 28 1 8 8
12 15 27 1 9 17
13 35 R 26 1 -26 -9
14 2 26 2 20 11
15 26 25 1 11 22
16 8 24 1 12 34
17 20 23 1 13 47
18 36 22 1 14 61
19 28 21 1 15 76
20 25 20 1 16 92
21 0 R 19 1 -19 73
22 8 R 19 2 -38 35
23 14 19 3 51 86
24 17 R 18 2 -36 50
25 15 R 18 3 -54 -4
26 10 18 4 72 68
27 19 17 3 57 125
28 13 16 2 40 165
29 25 R 15 1 -15 150
30 29 15 2 42 192
31 18 14 1 22 214
32 3 13 1 23 237
33 13 R 12 1 -12 225
34 22 12 2 48 273
35 35 R 11 1 -11 262
36 0 R 11 2 -22 240
37 35 R 11 3 -33 207
38 6 11 4 100 307
39 10 R 10 3 -30 277
40 3 R 10 4 -40 237
41 31 R 10 5 -50 187
42 15 R 10 6 -60 127
43 1 R 10 7 -70 57
44 9 R 10 8 -80 -23
45 10 R 10 9 -90 -113
46 10 R 10 10 -100 -213
47 3 R 10 11 -110 -323
48 32 10 12 312 -11
49 35 R 9 11 -99 -110
50 29 R 9 12 -108 -218
51 7 9 13 351 133
52 29 R 8 12 -96 37
53 7 R 8 13 -104 -67
54 20 R 8 14 -112 -179
55 1 R 8 15 -120 -299
56 25 R 8 16 -128 -427
57 26 R 8 17 -136 -563
58 21 8 18 504 -59
59 10 R 7 17 -119 -178
60 12 7 18 522 344
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 12, 04:19 AM 2016
KTF +53
jackpot247 12.5.16
21
2
13
22
26
30
1
20
0
16
31
30
17
23
29
19
34
14
9
33
27
28
27
5
5
36
16
12
22
26
7
14
7
32
13
2
29
19
5
3
8
35
35
5
14
17
20
6
7
26
13
8
35
29
11
17
36
19
1
12

5
34
33
6
18
24
13
36
15
12
32
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 13, 04:33 AM 2016
13.05.16  +55
jackpot247 13.5.16
1 13
2 16
3 27
4 35
5 4
6 18
7 2
8 15
9 27
10 22
11 23
12 8
13 21
14 14
15 13
16 31
17 22
18 36
19 0
20 26
21 32
22 23
23 2
24 23
25 29
26 2
27 36
28 10
29 25
30 35
31 26
32 3
33 20
34 32
35 4
36 9
37 36
38 15
39 7
40 3
41 32
42 18
43 27
44 32
45 0
46 27
47 30
48 8
49 34
50 19
51 8
52 12
53 23
54 34
55 5
56 30
57 0
58 7
59 1
60 14

61 22
62 6
63 32
64 2
65 3
66 27
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 13, 10:15 AM 2016
-Notto

Thank You for todays numbers.
Another Winner for KTF and WTF.
Gotta love this.

Awfully quiet here recentley.
I guess everybody is too busy raking in the profits.

The other day I asked you about the numbers you posted from Wm. Hill.
Are their numbers usually that skewed?

Have a great weekend.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 14, 02:31 AM 2016
14.5.16  KTF +53
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 33 37
2 25 36
3 3 35
4 33 R 34
5 16 34
6 9 33
7 22 32
8 22 R 31
9 22 R 31
10 15 31
11 24 30 1 6 6
12 9 R 29 1 -29 -23
13 24 R 29 2 -58 -81
14 13 29 3 21 -60
15 27 28 2 16 -44
16 34 27 1 9 -35
17 35 26 1 10 -25
18 6 25 1 11 -14
19 25 R 24 1 -24 -38
20 7 24 2 24 -14
21 31 23 1 13 -1
22 22 R 22 1 -22 -23
23 28 22 2 28 5
24 12 21 1 15 20
25 36 20 1 16 36
26 30 19 1 17 53
27 8 18 1 18 71
28 11 17 1 19 90
29 32 16 1 20 110
30 14 15 1 21 131
31 13 R 14 1 -14 117
32 36 R 14 2 -28 89
33 32 R 14 3 -42 47
34 16 R 14 4 -56 -9
35 3 R 14 5 -70 -79
36 4 14 6 132 53
37 31 R 13 5 -65 -12
38 27 R 13 6 -78 -90
39 30 R 13 7 -91 -181
40 1 13 8 184 3
41 4 R 12 7 -84 -81
42 22 R 12 8 -96 -177
43 22 R 12 9 -108 -285
44 19 12 10 240 -45
45 16 R 11 9 -99 -144
46 7 R 11 10 -110 -254
47 7 R 11 11 -121 -375
48 1 R 11 12 -132 -507
49 13 R 11 13 -143 -650
50 7 R 11 14 -154 -804
51 22 R 11 15 -165 -969
52 22 R 11 16 -176 -1145
53 14 R 11 17 -187 -1332
54 14 R 11 18 -198 -1530
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 14, 02:58 AM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on May 13, 10:15 AM 2016The other day I asked you about the numbers you posted from Wm. Hill.
Are their numbers usually that skewed?
There seems to be times when its going to be a hard game for the KTF game, as the FOBT seems to give repeats, but this day KTF was ok. But once i made the win with KTF i started to watch for the chance to bet for repeats. Got the #28 spin 21. Came off the machine as shop was busy and just watched the spins.
So yes, get games like that.
The Ladbroke game is similar, 9,+4  13,+3 should have got the extra spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 15, 03:39 AM 2016
15.5.16 KTF  +122
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 33 37
2 22 36
3 6 35
4 33 R 34
5 6 R 34
6 1 34
7 26 33
8 19 32
9 19 R 31
10 29 31
11 26 R 30 1 -30 -30
12 12 30 2 12 -18
13 30 29 1 7 -11
14 10 28 1 8 -3
15 33 R 27 1 -27 -30
16 21 27 2 18 -12
17 18 26 1 10 -2
18 35 25 1 11 9
19 21 R 24 1 -24 -15
20 33 R 24 2 -48 -63
21 1 R 24 3 -72 -135
22 31 24 4 48 -87
23 13 23 3 39 -48
24 36 22 2 28 -20
25 33 R 21 1 -21 -41
26 6 R 21 2 -42 -83
27 35 R 21 3 -63 -146
28 19 R 21 4 -84 -230
29 0 21 5 75 -155
30 36 R 20 4 -80 -235
31 29 R 20 5 -100 -335
32 22 R 20 6 -120 -455
33 22 R 20 7 -140 -595
34 9 20 8 128 -467
35 15 19 7 119 -348
36 10 R 18 6 -108 -456
37 33 R 18 7 -126 -582
38 2 18 8 144 -438
39 4 17 7 133 -305
40 5 16 6 120 -185
41 25 15 5 105 -80
42 29 R 14 4 -56 -136
43 9 R 14 5 -70 -206
44 33 R 14 6 -84 -290
45 24 14 7 154 -136
46 32 13 6 138 2
47 28 12 5 120 122
48 26 R 11 4 -44 78
49 3 11 5 125 203
50 15 R 10 4 -40 163
51 34 10 5 130 293
52 7 9 4 108 401
53 21 R 8 3 -24 377
54 9 R 8 4 -32 345
55 14 8 5 140 485
56 24 R 7 4 -28 457
57 35 R 7 5 -35 422
58 15 R 7 6 -42 380
59 24 R 7 7 -49 331
60 10 R 7 8 -56 275
61 23 7 9 261 536
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: PeaBea65 on May 16, 09:10 PM 2016
Quote from: Celticknits on May 13, 10:15 AM 2016
-Notto

Thank You for todays numbers.
Another Winner for KTF and WTF.
Gotta love this.

Awfully quiet here recentley.
I guess everybody is too busy raking in the profits.

The other day I asked you about the numbers you posted from Wm. Hill.
Are their numbers usually that skewed?

Have a great weekend.

-Celtic

This does look like it is doing very well for Nottophammer.  Why is no one else reporting results like he does?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 17, 10:07 AM 2016
Just back from Brighton, yesterday went to grosvenor casino, just watched the trot/count, plenty of time to place 28 units on touch screen. +230

Even KTF wins, i didn't use KTF as not sure how the time of spins would be, but there was no problem with time.

Before we came away went to Brighton Marina, Rendezvous casino, watched,again time was no problem, even the auto wheel had 50 seconds.
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 8 37
2 10 36
3 15 35
4 16 34
5 12 33
6 26 32
7 25 31
8 34 30
9 24 29
10 31 28
11 4 27 1 9 9
12 29 26 1 10 19
13 14 25 1 11 30
14 23 24 1 12 42
15 28 23 1 13 55
16

Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 10 37
2 13 36
3 32 35
4 28 34
5 36 33
6 30 32
7 13 R 31
8 9 31
9 35 30
10 12 29
11 33 28 1 8 8
12 4 27 1 9 17
13 16 26 1 10 27
14 3 25 1 11 38
15 21 24 1 12 50

Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 33 37
2 4 36
3 16 35
4 3 34
5 21 33
6 9 32
7 21 R 31
8 19 31
9 2 30
10 36 29
11 17 28 1 8 8
12 3 R 27 1 -27 -19
13 34 27 2 18 -1
14 7 26 1 10 9
15 1 25 1 11 20
16 32 24 1 12 32
17 5 23 1 13 45
18 20 22 1 14 59
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 17, 11:34 AM 2016
16.5.16  KTF +111
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 4 37
2 5 36
3 10 35
4 3 34
5 13 33
6 31 32
7 15 31
8 34 30
9 16 29
10 6 28
11 36 27 1 9 9
12 35 26 1 10 19
13 36 R 25 1 -25 -6
14 6 R 25 2 -50 -56
15 10 R 25 3 -75 -131
16 1 25 4 44 -87
17 5 R 24 3 -72 -159
18 12 24 4 48 -111
19 26 23 3 39 -72
20 32 22 2 28 -44
21 35 R 21 1 -21 -65
22 9 21 2 30 -35
23 26 R 20 1 -20 -55
24 36 R 20 2 -40 -95
25 12 R 20 3 -60 -155
26 15 R 20 4 -80 -235
27 20 20 5 80 -155
28 36 R 19 4 -76 -231
29 34 R 19 5 -95 -326
30 36 R 19 6 -114 -440
31 16 R 19 7 -133 -573
32 18 19 8 136 -437
33 35 R 18 7 -126 -563
34 2 18 8 144 -419
35 14 17 7 133 -286
36 13 R 16 6 -96 -382
37 11 16 7 140 -242
38 3 R 15 6 -90 -332
39 8 15 7 147 -185
40 1 R 14 6 -84 -269
41 31 R 14 7 -98 -367
42 32 R 14 8 -112 -479
43 26 R 14 9 -126 -605
44 20 R 14 10 -140 -745
45 32 R 14 11 -154 -899
46 13 R 14 12 -168 -1067
47 24 14 13 286 -781
48 18 R 13 12 -156 -937
49 27 13 13 299 -638
50 33 12 12 288 -350
51 29 11 11 275 -75
52 32 R 10 10 -100 -175
53 22 10 11 286 111
54 3 R 9 10 -90 21
55 7 9 11 297 318
56 10 R 8 10 -80 238
57 28 8 11 308 546
58 27 R 7 10 -70 476
59 17 7 11 319 795
60 9 R 6 10 -60 735
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 17, 11:40 AM 2016
17.5.16   KTF theres a win of +31 or +35 but a short program so needs another 14 spins, but would you worry with over 7'000 in the BR a loss of -199  :twisted:
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 14 37
2 30 36
3 7 35
4 30 R 34
5 35 34
6 9 33
7 36 32
8 36 R 31
9 5 31
10 14 R 30
11 35 R 30 1 -30 -30
12 36 R 30 2 -60 -90
13 13 30 3 18 -72
14 21 29 2 14 -58
15 2 28 1 8 -50
16 15 27 1 9 -41
17 7 R 26 1 -26 -67
18 36 R 26 2 -52 -119
19 9 R 26 3 -78 -197
20 4 26 4 40 -157
21 28 25 3 33 -124
22 36 R 24 2 -48 -172
23 1 24 3 36 -136
24 27 23 2 26 -110
25 3 22 1 14 -96
26 0 21 1 15 -81
27 13 R 20 1 -20 -101
28 2 R 20 2 -40 -141
29 18 20 3 48 -93
30 13 R 19 2 -38 -131
31 33 19 3 51 -80
32 33 R 18 2 -36 -116
33 23 18 3 54 -62
34 36 R 17 2 -34 -96
35 14 R 17 3 -51 -147
36 6 17 4 76 -71
37 24 16 3 60 -11
38 20 15 2 42 31
39 4 R 14 1 -14 17
40 20 R 14 2 -28 -11
41 1 R 14 3 -42 -53
42 12 14 4 88 35
43 28 R 13 3 -39 -4
44 15 R 13 4 -52 -56
45 35 R 13 5 -65 -121
46 4 R 13 6 -78 -199
47 R
48 R
49 R
50 R
51 R
52 R
53 R
54 R
55 R
56 R
57 R
58 R
59 R
60 R
61 R
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: PeaBea65 on May 18, 04:21 AM 2016
nottophammer, I have done a bit of work with the spreadsheet you shared in another thread and have been getting really interesting results. 

So far I have only done the basics of 17 days, but if you took the first +ve balance for each day you would be have won 124 units.  I havent finished yet, but mostly you are only playing between 1-2 spins a day after watching the first 10.

Quite brilliant IMHO.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 18, 04:41 AM 2016
18.5.16 KTF +58
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 16 37
2 31 36
3 8 35
4 35 34
5 28 33
6 10 32
7 17 31
8 10 R 30
9 17 R 30
10 21 30
11 26 29 1 7 7
12 3 28 1 8 15
13 4 27 1 9 24
14 3 R 26 1 -26 -2
15 22 26 2 20 18
16 8 R 25 1 -25 -7
17 31 R 25 2 -50 -57
18 29 25 3 33 -24
19 5 24 2 24 0
20 31 R 23 1 -23 -23
21 2 23 2 26 3
22 35 R 22 1 -22 -19
23 16 R 22 2 -44 -63
24 19 22 3 42 -21
25 27 21 2 30 9
26 9 20 1 16 25
27 27 R 19 1 -19 6
28 31 R 19 2 -38 -32
29 6 19 3 51 19
30 3 R 18 2 -36 -17
31 8 R 18 3 -54 -71
32 30 18 4 72 1
33 21 R 17 3 -51 -50
34 36 17 4 76 26
35 22 R 16 3 -48 -22
36 14 16 4 80 58
37 14 R 15 3 -45 13
38 0 15 4 84 97
39 2 R 14 3 -42 55
40 2 R 14 4 -56 -1
41 31 R 14 5 -70 -71
42 24 14 6 132 61
43 21 R 13 5 -65 -4
44 29 R 13 6 -78 -82
45 3 R 13 7 -91 -173
46 14 R 13 8 -104 -277
47 29 R 13 9 -117 -394
48 8 R 13 10 -130 -524
49 1 13 11 253 -271
50 12 12 10 240 -31
51 0 R 11 9 -99 -130
52 24 R 11 10 -110 -240
53 35 R 11 11 -121 -361
54 36 R 11 12 -132 -493
55 27 R 11 13 -143 -636
56 22 R 11 14 -154 -790
57 4 R 11 15 -165 -955
58 3 R 11 16 -176 -1131
59 27 R 11 17 -187 -1318
60 10 R 11 18 -198 -1516
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bettingking on May 18, 05:11 AM 2016
+20 profit. Thats my limit per game. +2,000 units to date. Greed is the biggest downfall in my opinion. Keep your profit low per game then you should not get in a deep hole....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: PeaBea65 on May 18, 06:20 AM 2016
Quote from: Bettingking on May 18, 05:11 AM 2016
+20 profit. Thats my limit per game. +2,000 units to date. Greed is the biggest downfall in my opinion. Keep your profit low per game then you should not get in a deep hole....

From my limited testing, could not agree more.  I would be inclined to take any positive balance early in the session and start the cycle again.  You are still going to get hit sometimes, but your BR should be big enought to handle it.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 18, 09:18 AM 2016
-Notto

Hope you had time for a paddle while in Brighton :lol:

Thank you for the Jackpot 247 updates.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on May 18, 09:25 AM 2016
Quote from: Bettingking on May 18, 05:11 AM 2016
+20 profit. Thats my limit per game. +2,000 units to date. Greed is the biggest downfall in my opinion. Keep your profit low per game then you should not get in a deep hole....

-Bettingking

I wish I had $1 for everytime I had posted that statement.

WTF ie. betting repeats, is even more tempting to continue for higher profits.
As an example - with Nottos May 16th numbers I would have quit in 5 spins with +77 but had I continued to the end would have had +327.
I posted the payout sheet in the WTF thread if you want to see it.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 18, 04:54 PM 2016
W.Hill 18.5.16 RNG KTF +64
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 14 37
2 33 36
3 20 35
4 24 34
5 32 33
6 7 32
7 26 31
8 15 30
9 31 29
10 9 28
11 18 27 1 9 9
12 33 R 26 1 -26 -17
13 3 26 2 20 3
14 17 25 1 11 14
15 13 24 1 12 26
16 3 R 23 1 -23 3
17 26 R 23 2 -46 -43
18 6 23 3 39 -4
19 33 R 22 2 -44 -48
20 11 22 3 42 -6
21 3 R 21 2 -42 -48
22 4 21 3 45 -3
23 22 20 2 32 29
24 27 19 1 17 46
25 3 R 18 1 -18 28
26 8 18 2 36 64
27 18 R 17 1 -17 47
28 19 17 2 38 85
29 5 16 1 20 105
30 19 R 15 1 -15 90
31 27 R 15 2 -30 60
32 6 R 15 3 -45 15
33 28 15 4 84 99
34 15 R 14 3 -42 57
35 18 R 14 4 -56 1
36 20 R 14 5 -70 -69
37 34 14 6 132 63
38 12 13 5 115 178
39 15 R 12 4 -48 130
40 29 12 5 120 250
41 32 R 11 4 -44 206
42 27 R 11 5 -55 151
43 2 11 6 150 301
44 28 R 10 5 -50 251
45 8 R 10 6 -60 191
46 1 10 7 182 373
47 19 R 9 6 -54 319
48 34 R 9 7 -63 256
49 14 R 9 8 -72 184
50 33 R 9 9 -81 103
51 27 R 9 10 -90 13
52 24 R 9 11 -99 -86
53 29 R 9 12 -108 -194
54 32 R 9 13 -117 -311
55 4 R 9 14 -126 -437
56 2 R 9 15 -135 -572
57 34 R 9 16 -144 -716
58 35 9 17 459 -257
59 24 R 8 16 -128 -385
60 34 R 8 17 -136 -521
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 18, 04:59 PM 2016
Lads 18.5.16 RNG KTF +87  even with 5repeats in spins 21-30
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 7 37
2 12 36
3 34 35
4 6 34
5 22 33
6 0 32
7 29 31
8 12 R 30
9 6 R 30
10 10 30
11 32 29 1 7 7
12 29 R 28 1 -28 -21
13 2 28 2 16 -5
14 34 R 27 1 -27 -32
15 19 27 2 18 -14
16 18 26 1 10 -4
17 15 25 1 11 7
18 18 R 24 1 -24 -17
19 5 24 2 24 7
20 11 23 1 13 20
21 15 R 22 1 -22 -2
22 15 R 22 2 -44 -46
23 15 R 22 3 -66 -112
24 5 R 22 4 -88 -200
25 32 R 22 5 -110 -310
26 31 22 6 84 -226
27 10 R 21 5 -105 -331
28 19 R 21 6 -126 -457
29 24 21 7 105 -352
30 24 R 20 6 -120 -472
31 26 20 7 112 -360
32 33 19 6 102 -258
33 25 18 5 90 -168
34 5 R 17 4 -68 -236
35 17 17 5 95 -141
36 4 16 4 80 -61
37 4 R 15 3 -45 -106
38 27 15 4 84 -22
39 23 14 3 66 44
40 29 R 13 2 -26 18
41 13 13 3 69 87
42 25 R 12 2 -24 63
43 2 R 12 3 -36 27
44 21 12 4 96 123
45 30 11 3 75 198
46 33 R 10 2 -20 178
47 28 10 3 78 256
48 11 R 9 2 -18 238
49 9 9 3 81 319
50 13 R 8 2 -16 303
51 27 R 8 3 -24 279
52 15 R 8 4 -32 247
53 31 R 8 5 -40 207
54 8 8 6 168 375
55 28 R 7 5 -35 340
56 16 7 6 174 514
57 0 R 6 5 -30 484
58 9 R 6 6 -36 448
59 20 6 7 210 658
60 22 R 5 6 -30 628
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 18, 05:04 PM 2016
even Paddy Power +55
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 34 37
2 22 36
3 5 35
4 29 34
5 9 33
6 28 32
7 11 31
8 1 30
9 25 29
10 0 28
11 18 27 1 9 9
12 2 26 1 10 19
13 35 25 1 11 30
14 17 24 1 12 42
15 32 23 1 13 55
16 29 R 22 1 -22 33
17 14 22 2 28 61
18 1 R 21 1 -21 40
19 13 21 2 30 70
20 34 R 20 1 -20 50
21 19 20 2 32 82
22 22 R 19 1 -19 63
23 20 19 2 34 97
24 3 18 1 18 115
25 32 R 17 1 -17 98
26 1 R 17 2 -34 64
27 22 R 17 3 -51 13
28 23 17 4 76 89
29 8 16 3 60 149
30 17 R 15 2 -30 119

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bettingking on May 18, 05:29 PM 2016
Yes Celt, i know what you mean. I guess im more conservative and like to protect profits and build up slowly.  It can win fast which is great so much potential. +40 every game I found is also realistic. I have a similar strategy I am working on which ill let you know based on waiting 18 spins but will start another thread of course.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: PeaBea65 on May 19, 12:55 AM 2016
17 days of May on Spielbank Wiesbaden table 1, just taking first +ve balance.  Return would be 132 units with the majority obtained with the first betting spin.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 19, 03:26 AM 2016
19.5.16  KTF +50
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 1 37
2 11 36
3 11 R 35
4 4 35
5 31 34
6 2 33
7 20 32
8 8 31
9 0 30
10 13 29
11 29 28 1 8 8
12 18 27 1 9 17
13 36 26 1 10 27
14 34 25 1 11 38
15 19 24 1 12 50
16 25 23 1 13 63
17 26 22 1 14 77
18 15 21 1 15 92
19 28 20 1 16 108
20 20 R 19 1 -19 89
21 24 19 2 34 123
22 31 R 18 1 -18 105
23 30 18 2 36 141
24 35 17 1 19 160
25 28 R 16 1 -16 144
26 21 16 2 40 184
27 32 15 1 21 205
28 30 R 14 1 -14 191
29 25 R 14 2 -28 163
30 28 R 14 3 -42 121
31 29 R 14 4 -56 65
32 16 14 5 110 175
33 17 13 4 92 267
34 1 R 12 3 -36 231
35 20 R 12 4 -48 183
36 4 R 12 5 -60 123
37 25 R 12 6 -72 51
38 7 12 7 168 219
39 27 11 6 150 369
40 30 R 10 5 -50 319
41 21 R 10 6 -60 259
42 20 R 10 7 -70 189
43 35 R 10 8 -80 109
44 33 10 9 234 343
45 22 9 8 216 559
46 22 R 8 7 -56 503
47 21 R 8 8 -64 439
48 20 R 8 9 -72 367
49 31 R 8 10 -80 287
50 36 R 8 11 -88 199
51 14 8 12 336 535
52 28 R 7 11 -77 458
53 12 7 12 348 806
54 34 R 6 11 -66 740
55 29 R 6 12 -72 668
56 32 R 6 13 -78 590
57 R
58 R
59 R
60 R
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 20, 09:28 AM 2016
20.5.16 KTF +72
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 33 37
2 15 36
3 23 35
4 24 34
5 16 33
6 23 R 32
7 0 32
8 11 31
9 13 30
10 18 29
11 5 28 1 8 8
12 9 27 1 9 17
13 0 R 26 1 -26 -9
14 18 R 26 2 -52 -61
15 9 R 26 3 -78 -139
16 35 26 4 40 -99
17 6 25 3 33 -66
18 16 R 24 2 -48 -114
19 16 R 24 3 -72 -186
20 27 24 4 48 -138
21 28 23 3 39 -99
22 17 22 2 28 -71
23 11 R 21 1 -21 -92
24 33 R 21 2 -42 -134
25 26 21 3 45 -89
26 33 R 20 2 -40 -129
27 1 20 3 48 -81
28 11 R 19 2 -38 -119
29 36 19 3 51 -68
30 16 R 18 2 -36 -104
31 14 18 3 54 -50
32 20 17 2 38 -12
33 5 R 16 1 -16 -28
34 36 R 16 2 -32 -60
35 12 16 3 60 0
36 32 15 2 42 42
37 28 R 14 1 -14 28
38 4 14 2 44 72
39 19 13 1 23 95
40 4 R 12 1 -12 83
41 6 R 12 2 -24 59
42 2 12 3 72 131
43 8 11 2 50 181
44 11 R 10 1 -10 171
45 34 10 2 52 223
46 2 R 9 1 -9 214
47 1 R 9 2 -18 196
48 10 9 3 81 277
49 15 R 8 2 -16 261
50 5 R 8 3 -24 237
51 35 R 8 4 -32 205
52 16 R 8 5 -40 165
53 0 R 8 6 -48 117
54 25 8 7 196 313
55 34 R 7 6 -42 271
56 4 R 7 7 -49 222
57 3 7 8 232 454
58 32 R 6 7 -42 412
59 3 R 6 8 -48 364
60 12 R 6 9 -54 310

jackpot247 20.5.16
1 33
2 15
3 23
4 24
5 16
6 23
7 0
8 11
9 13
10 18
11 5
12 9
13 0
14 18
15 9
16 35
17 6
18 16
19 16
20 27
21 28
22 17
23 11
24 33
25 26
26 33
27 1
28 11
29 36
30 16
31 14
32 20
33 5
34 36
35 12
36 32
37 28
38 4
39 19
40 4
41 6
42 2
43 8
44 11
45 34
46 2
47 1
48 10
49 15
50 5
51 35
52 16
53 0
54 25
55 34
56 4
57 3
58 32
59 3
60 12

61 22
62 22
63 20
64 15
65 1
66 22
67 35
68 1
69 13
70 25
71 27
72 7
73 13
74 18
75 33
76 30
77 26
78 13
79 4
80 30
81 10
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 20, 10:08 AM 2016
Azim once said if you where to start at another entry point,
so here we start 10 spins later into the 81 spins  :thumbsup:
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 5 37
2 9 36
3 0 35
4 18 34
5 9 R 33
6 35 33
7 6 32
8 16 31
9 16 R 30
10 27 30
11 28 29 1 7 7
12 17 28 1 8 15
13 11 27 1 9 24
14 33 26 1 10 34
15 26 25 1 11 45
16 33 R 24 1 -24 21
17 1 24 2 24 45
18 11 R 23 1 -23 22
19 36 23 2 26 48
20 16 R 22 1 -22 26
21 14 22 2 28 54
22 20 21 1 15 69
23 5 R 20 1 -20 49
24 36 R 20 2 -40 9
25 12 20 3 48 57
26 32 19 2 34 91
27 28 R 18 1 -18 73
28 4 18 2 36 109
29 19 17 1 19 128
30 4 R 16 1 -16 112
31 6 R 16 2 -32 80
32 2 16 3 60 140
33 8 15 2 42 182
34 11 R 14 1 -14 168
35 34 14 2 44 212
36 2 R 13 1 -13 199
37 1 R 13 2 -26 173
38 10 13 3 69 242
39 15 12 2 48 290
40 5 R 11 1 -11 279
41 35 R 11 2 -22 257
42 16 R 11 3 -33 224
43 0 R 11 4 -44 180
44 25 11 5 125 305
45 34 R 10 4 -40 265
46 4 R 10 5 -50 215
47 3 10 6 156 371
48 32 R 9 5 -45 326
49 3 R 9 6 -54 272
50 12 R 9 7 -63 209
51 22 9 8 216 425
52 22 R 8 7 -56 369
53 20 R 8 8 -64 305
54 15 R 8 9 -72 233
55 1 R 8 10 -80 153
56 22 R 8 11 -88 65
57 35 R 8 12 -96 -31
58 1 R 8 13 -104 -135
59 13 8 14 392 257
60 25 R 7 13 -91 166

Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 28 37
2 17 36
3 11 35
4 33 34
5 26 33
6 33 R 32
7 1 32
8 11 R 31
9 36 31
10 16 30
11 14 29 1 7 7
12 20 28 1 8 15
13 5 27 1 9 24
14 36 R 26 1 -26 -2
15 12 26 2 20 18
16 32 25 1 11 29
17 28 R 24 1 -24 5
18 4 24 2 24 29
19 19 23 1 13 42
20 4 R 22 1 -22 20
21 6 22 2 28 48
22 2 21 1 15 63
23 8 20 1 16 79
24 11 R 19 1 -19 60
25 34 19 2 34 94
26 2 R 18 1 -18 76
27 1 R 18 2 -36 40
28 10 18 3 54 94
29 15 17 2 38 132
30 5 R 16 1 -16 116
31 35 16 2 40 156
32 16 R 15 1 -15 141
33 0 15 2 42 183
34 25 14 1 22 205
35 34 R 13 1 -13 192
36 4 R 13 2 -26 166
37 3 13 3 69 235
38 32 R 12 2 -24 211
39 3 R 12 3 -36 175
40 12 R 12 4 -48 127
41 35 R 12 5 -60 67
42 16 R 12 6 -72 -5
43 0 R 12 7 -84 -89
44 22 12 8 192 103
45 22 R 11 7 -77 26
46 20 R 11 8 -88 -62
47 15 R 11 9 -99 -161
48 1 R 11 10 -110 -271
49 22 R 11 11 -121 -392
50 35 R 11 12 -132 -524
51 1 R 11 13 -143 -667
52 13 11 14 350 -317
53 25 R 10 13 -130 -447
54 27 10 14 364 -83
55 7 9 13 351 268
56 13 R 8 12 -96 172
57 18 8 13 364 536
58 33 R 7 12 -84 452
59 30 7 13 377 829
60 26 R 6 12 -72 757

Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 14 37
2 20 36
3 5 35
4 36 34
5 12 33
6 32 32
7 28 31
8 4 30
9 19 29
10 4 R 28
11 6 28 1 8 8
12 2 27 1 9 17
13 8 26 1 10 27
14 11 25 1 11 38
15 34 24 1 12 50
16 2 R 23 1 -23 27
17 1 23 2 26 53
18 10 22 1 14 67
19 15 21 1 15 82
20 5 R 20 1 -20 62
21 35 20 2 32 94
22 16 19 1 17 111
23 0 18 1 18 129
24 25 17 1 19 148
25 34 R 16 1 -16 132
26 4 R 16 2 -32 100
27 3 16 3 60 160
28 32 R 15 2 -30 130
29 3 R 15 3 -45 85
30 12 R 15 4 -60 25
31 22 15 5 105 130
32 22 R 14 4 -56 74
33 20 R 14 5 -70 4
34 15 R 14 6 -84 -80
35 1 R 14 7 -98 -178
36 22 R 14 8 -112 -290
37 35 R 14 9 -126 -416
38 1 R 14 10 -140 -556
39 13 14 11 242 -314
40 25 R 13 10 -130 -444
41 27 13 11 253 -191
42 7 12 10 240 49
43 13 R 11 9 -99 -50
44 18 11 10 250 200
45 33 10 9 234 434
46 30 9 8 216 650
47 26 8 7 196 846
48 13 R 7 6 -42 804
49 4 R 7 7 -49 755
50 30 R 7 8 -56 699
51 10 R 7 9 -63 636
52 R
53 R
54 R
55 R
56 R
57 R
58 R
59 R
60 R

Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 6 37
2 2 36
3 8 35
4 11 34
5 34 33
6 2 R 32
7 1 32
8 10 31
9 15 30
10 5 29
11 35 28 1 8 8
12 16 27 1 9 17
13 0 26 1 10 27
14 25 25 1 11 38
15 34 R 24 1 -24 14
16 4 24 2 24 38
17 3 23 1 13 51
18 32 22 1 14 65
19 3 R 21 1 -21 44
20 12 21 2 30 74
21 22 20 1 16 90
22 22 R 19 1 -19 71
23 20 19 2 34 105
24 15 R 18 1 -18 87
25 1 R 18 2 -36 51
26 22 R 18 3 -54 -3
27 35 R 18 4 -72 -75
28 1 R 18 5 -90 -165
29 13 18 6 108 -57
30 25 R 17 5 -85 -142
31 27 17 6 114 -28
32 7 16 5 100 72
33 13 R 15 4 -60 12
34 18 15 5 105 117
35 33 14 4 88 205
36 30 13 3 69 274
37 26 12 2 48 322
38 13 R 11 1 -11 311
39 4 R 11 2 -22 289
40 30 R 11 3 -33 256
41 10 R 11 4 -44 212
42 R
43 R
44 R
45 R
46 R
47 R
48 R
49 R
50 R
51 R
52 R
53 R
54 R
55 R
56 R
57 R
58 R
59 R
60 R

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 20, 10:13 AM 2016
Now we run out of spins at spin 31 and show -7
So for a bit of curve fitting i added the 1st 10 spins
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 35 37
2 16 36
3 0 35
4 25 34
5 34 33
6 4 32
7 3 31
8 32 30
9 3 R 29
10 12 29
11 22 28 1 8 8
12 22 R 27 1 -27 -19
13 20 27 2 18 -1
14 15 26 1 10 9
15 1 25 1 11 20
16 22 R 24 1 -24 -4
17 35 R 24 2 -48 -52
18 1 R 24 3 -72 -124
19 13 24 4 48 -76
20 25 R 23 3 -69 -145
21 27 23 4 52 -93
22 7 22 3 42 -51
23 13 R 21 2 -42 -93
24 18 21 3 45 -48
25 33 20 2 32 -16
26 30 19 1 17 1
27 26 18 1 18 19
28 13 R 17 1 -17 2
29 4 R 17 2 -34 -32
30 30 R 17 3 -51 -83
31 10 17 4 76 -7
32 33 R 16 3 -48 -55
33 15 R 16 4 -64 -119
34 23 16 5 100 -19
35 24 15 4 84 65
36 16 R 14 3 -42 23
37 23 R 14 4 -56 -33
38 0 R 14 5 -70 -103
39 11 14 6 132 29
40 13 R 13 5 -65 -36
41 18 R 13 6 -78 -114
42 R
43 R
44 R
45 R
46 R
47 R
48 R
49 R
50 R
51 R
52 R
53 R
54 R
55 R
56 R
57 R
58 R
59 R
60 R

As you see +65
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 21, 04:54 AM 2016
Hi PeaBea65
Heres last nights spin registry in the correct order no reset.
33
8
21
14
2
23
31
15
29
18
31
21
25
12
36
10
11
4
14
10
17
1
30
36
17
33
36
7
36
34
34
31
28
33
24
26
16
10
28
21
3
15
27
19
34
19
14
16
12
5
15
31
16
28
24
2
26
13
8
16
27
16
18
21
4
21
17
14
1
10
7
12
6
4
20
11
28
24
11
32
17
32
1
5
13
17
8
1
13
27
7
17
12
0
15
3
3
32
28
17

So taking the 1st +ve balance +46
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 21, 06:40 AM 2016
21.5.16   KTF +60
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 22 37
2 21 36
3 27 35
4 5 34
5 18 33
6 0 32
7 12 31
8 27 R 30
9 15 30
10 5 R 29
11 9 29 1 7 7
12 23 28 1 8 15
13 26 27 1 9 24
14 15 R 26 1 -26 -2
15 5 R 26 2 -52 -54
16 16 26 3 30 -24
17 22 R 25 2 -50 -74
18 15 R 25 3 -75 -149
19 7 25 4 44 -105
20 16 R 24 3 -72 -177
21 6 24 4 48 -129
22 7 R 23 3 -69 -198
23 11 23 4 52 -146
24 11 R 22 3 -66 -212
25 11 R 22 4 -88 -300
26 25 22 5 70 -230
27 24 21 4 60 -170
28 32 20 3 48 -122
29 7 R 19 2 -38 -160
30 1 19 3 51 -109
31 35 18 2 36 -73
32 4 17 1 19 -54
33 22 R 16 1 -16 -70
34 16 R 16 2 -32 -102
35 14 16 3 60 -42
36 36 15 2 42 0
37 26 R 14 1 -14 -14
38 28 14 2 44 30
39 28 R 13 1 -13 17
40 15 R 13 2 -26 -9
41 30 13 3 69 60
42 9 R 12 2 -24 36
43 11 R 12 3 -36 0
44 16 R 12 4 -48 -48
45 19 12 5 120 72
46 35 R 11 4 -44 28
47 34 11 5 125 153
48 3 10 4 104 257
49 33 9 3 81 338
50 2 8 2 56 394
51 9 R 7 1 -7 387
52 18 R 7 2 -14 373
53 6 R 7 3 -21 352
54 12 R 7 4 -28 324
55 18 R 7 5 -35 289
56 3 R 7 6 -42 247
57 25 R 7 7 -49 198
58 11 R 7 8 -56 142
59 1 R 7 9 -63 79
60 11 R 7 10 -70 9
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on May 21, 06:50 AM 2016
The long and winding road!

I need to grow some balls....
Been trying some other methods, and most of them would work better with KTF, but missed courage!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bettingking on May 21, 06:51 AM 2016
Yes i can see it can be successful. So how do you know when to begin the count??? Anytime beginning the tracking of 10? Then after your profit target met wait for all 37 numbers to hit before beginning again?  Thats how I see it but it seems to have a similar result if you just start the count immediately of 10 after your profit.... i guess there could be many variations like most strategies as with all a degree of luck is evident.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 21, 07:05 AM 2016
The one thing with KTF is its just betting non-hit with +1/-1, not too much to think about.

Now with Priyankas tester i'm able to quickly paste from where the profit is made and see if a profit can still be made with the remaining numbers, Answer yes it does. Look in Westspiel topic in real spins, i've done 70 games of 60 spins in order of the spins and its +2000 units, even with 3 losses
So 4200 spins done 60 odd thousand more spins to do
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 22, 06:27 AM 2016
22.5.16 KTF +65
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 33 37
2 32 36
3 27 35
4 7 34
5 14 33
6 15 32
7 21 31
8 13 30
9 16 29
10 8 28
11 30 27 1 9 9
12 1 26 1 10 19
13 35 25 1 11 30
14 1 R 24 1 -24 6
15 10 24 2 24 30
16 2 23 1 13 43
17 27 R 22 1 -22 21
18 30 R 22 2 -44 -23
19 29 22 3 42 19
20 23 21 2 30 49
21 4 20 1 16 65
22 7 R 19 1 -19 46
23 3 19 2 34 80
24 16 R 18 1 -18 62
25 8 R 18 2 -36 26
26 17 18 3 54 80
27 13 R 17 2 -34 46
28 12 17 3 57 103
29 30 R 16 2 -32 71
30 6 16 3 60 131
31 6 R 15 2 -30 101
32 16 R 15 3 -45 56
33 15 R 15 4 -60 -4
34 12 R 15 5 -75 -79
35 17 R 15 6 -90 -169
36 13 R 15 7 -105 -274
37 15 R 15 8 -120 -394
38 4 R 15 9 -135 -529
39 21 R 15 10 -150 -679
40 24 15 11 231 -448
41 2 R 14 10 -140 -588
42 31 14 11 242 -346
43 13 R 13 10 -130 -476
44 30 R 13 11 -143 -619
45 35 R 13 12 -156 -775
46 25 13 13 299 -476
47 4 R 12 12 -144 -620
48 4 R 12 13 -156 -776
49 30 R 12 14 -168 -944
50 23 R 12 15 -180 -1124
51 4 R 12 16 -192 -1316
52 30 R 12 17 -204 -1520
53 32 R 12 18 -216 -1736
54 16 R 12 19 -228 -1964
55 10 R 12 20 -240 -2204
56 22 12 21 504 -1700
57 26 11 20 500 -1200
58 9 10 19 494 -706
59 33 R 9 18 -162 -868
60 15 R 9 19 -171 -1039
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bettingking on May 22, 06:39 AM 2016
What I have found is that when it reaches 12 different numbers not bet (1/3 of numbers....almost) there is a high probability of those numbers repeating so I stop when 12 numbers have been hit (hopefully by then in profit) as a safeguard.  Again maybe it could be more profitable to keep going but more repeats will most likely occur and your profit starting to reduce maybe 2-5 numbers later.
Also thinking it may be better to have 1-2 repeats in the last 10 so your chances are higher by a few numbers (even though betting more) as more numbers are covered by your bets?  Does that make sense.... that is what I am finding anyway.

Let me know your thoughts...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 22, 09:18 AM 2016
KTF should have won the money before getting to that situation.
Take today with +43 at spin 16, for priyankas' stipulation of having to get to £50, KTF has to carry on, but would you bet 22 units to get past the 50, in the real world no you wouldn't, you'd take the +43, or having been at +30 at spin 13, then getting back to +30 spin 15, stop go to another table or wait for say 40 spins to pass, then start again.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 23, 04:39 AM 2016
23.05.16 KTF +71
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 22 37
2 29 36
3 13 35
4 15 34
5 23 33
6 7 32
7 13 R 31
8 18 31
9 3 30
10 30 29
11 16 28 1 8 8
12 33 27 1 9 17
13 3 R 26 1 -26 -9
14 4 26 2 20 11
15 17 25 1 11 22
16 36 24 1 12 34
17 15 R 23 1 -23 11
18 16 R 23 2 -46 -35
19 23 R 23 3 -69 -104
20 8 23 4 52 -52
21 8 R 22 3 -66 -118
22 34 22 4 56 -62
23 20 21 3 45 -17
24 30 R 20 2 -40 -57
25 12 20 3 48 -9
26 28 19 2 34 25
27 29 R 18 1 -18 7
28 33 R 18 2 -36 -29
29 36 R 18 3 -54 -83
30 8 R 18 4 -72 -155
31 2 18 5 90 -65
32 0 17 4 76 11
33 24 16 3 60 71
34 8 R 15 2 -30 41
35 16 R 15 3 -45 -4
36 16 R 15 4 -60 -64
37 35 15 5 105 41
38 27 14 4 88 129
39 25 13 3 69 198
40 16 R 12 2 -24 174
41 6 12 3 72 246
42 11 11 2 50 296
43 32 10 1 26 322
44 12 R 9 1 -9 313
45 34 R 9 2 -18 295
46 12 R 9 3 -27 268
47 22 R 9 4 -36 232
48 2 R 9 5 -45 187
49 0 R 9 6 -54 133
50 30 R 9 7 -63 70
51 27 R 9 8 -72 -2
52 15 R 9 9 -81 -83
53 24 R 9 10 -90 -173
54 11 R 9 11 -99 -272
55 9 9 12 324 52
56 18 R 8 11 -88 -36
57 13 R 8 12 -96 -132
58 12 R 8 13 -104 -236
59 24 R 8 14 -112 -348
60 0 R 8 15 -120 -468
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 24, 04:25 AM 2016
24.5.16 KTF +64
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 11 37
2 28 36
3 8 35
4 21 34
5 20 33
6 33 32
7 1 31
8 23 30
9 13 29
10 4 28
11 35 27 1 9 9
12 36 26 1 10 19
13 35 R 25 1 -25 -6
14 2 25 2 22 16
15 20 R 24 1 -24 -8
16 18 24 2 24 16
17 34 23 1 13 29
18 33 R 22 1 -22 7
19 13 R 22 2 -44 -37
20 14 22 3 42 5
21 31 21 2 30 35
22 14 R 20 1 -20 15
23 10 20 2 32 47
24 22 19 1 17 64
25 24 18 1 18 82
26 10 R 17 1 -17 65
27 29 17 2 38 103
28 19 16 1 20 123
29 6 15 1 21 144
30 22 R 14 1 -14 130
31 27 14 2 44 174
32 5 13 1 23 197
33 17 12 1 24 221
34 12 11 1 25 246
35 4 R 10 1 -10 236
36 23 R 10 2 -20 216
37 21 R 10 3 -30 186
38 8 R 10 4 -40 146
39 26 10 5 130 276
40 27 R 9 4 -36 240
41 1 R 9 5 -45 195
42 5 R 9 6 -54 141
43 16 9 7 189 330
44 12 R 8 6 -48 282
45 17 R 8 7 -56 226
46 25 8 8 224 450
47 23 R 7 7 -49 401
48 19 R 7 8 -56 345
49 12 R 7 9 -63 282
50 7 7 10 290 572
51 3 6 9 270 842
52 29 R 5 8 -40 802
53 13 R 5 9 -45 757
54 19 R 5 10 -50 707
55 20 R 5 11 -55 652
56 11 R 5 12 -60 592
57 12 R 5 13 -65 527
58 17 R 5 14 -70 457
59 23 R 5 15 -75 382
60 27 R 5 16 -80 302
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 25, 04:00 AM 2016
25.5.16 only 54 spins, but KTF only needed 5 spins +50
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 29 37
2 4 36
3 18 35
4 5 34
5 0 33
6 23 32
7 9 31
8 29 R 30
9 7 30
10 24 29
11 33 28 1 8 8
12 30 27 1 9 17
13 36 26 1 10 27
14 15 25 1 11 38
15 21 24 1 12 50
16 1 23 1 13 63
17 25 22 1 14 77
18 0 R 21 1 -21 56
19 4 R 21 2 -42 14
20 26 21 3 45 59
21 5 R 20 2 -40 19
22 23 R 20 3 -60 -41
23 28 20 4 64 23
24 31 19 3 51 74
25 31 R 18 2 -36 38
26 4 R 18 3 -54 -16
27 26 R 18 4 -72 -88
28 34 18 5 90 2
29 35 17 4 76 78
30 4 R 16 3 -48 30
31 1 R 16 4 -64 -34
32 13 16 5 100 66
33 26 R 15 4 -60 6
34 24 R 15 5 -75 -69
35 15 R 15 6 -90 -159
36 19 15 7 147 -12
37 5 R 14 6 -84 -96
38 1 R 14 7 -98 -194
39 24 R 14 8 -112 -306
40 18 R 14 9 -126 -432
41 6 14 10 220 -212
42 21 R 13 9 -117 -329
43 34 R 13 10 -130 -459
44 28 R 13 11 -143 -602
45 36 R 13 12 -156 -758
46 34 R 13 13 -169 -927
47 12 13 14 322 -605
48 26 R 12 13 -156 -761
49 14 12 14 336 -425
50 31 R 11 13 -143 -568
51 1 R 11 14 -154 -722
52 30 R 11 15 -165 -887
53 1 R 11 16 -176 -1063
54 23 R 11 17 -187 -1250
55 R
56 R
57 R
58 R
59 R
60 R
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on May 26, 01:44 AM 2016
How about....track 10 spins as always. Wait the first repeater. And bet once after that.

Win or lose. ..reset
Flat

:P
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 26, 08:27 AM 2016
26.5.16 KTF +56
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 25 37
2 20 36
3 33 35
4 36 34
5 34 33
6 25 R 32
7 1 32
8 10 31
9 1 R 30
10 21 30
11 6 29 1 7 7
12 28 28 1 8 15
13 7 27 1 9 24
14 27 26 1 10 34
15 20 R 25 1 -25 9
16 8 25 2 22 31
17 4 24 1 12 43
18 14 23 1 13 56
19 3 22 1 14 70
20 14 R 21 1 -21 49
21 16 21 2 30 79
22 7 R 20 1 -20 59
23 13 20 2 32 91
24 10 R 19 1 -19 72
25 11 19 2 34 106
26 11 R 18 1 -18 88
27 36 R 18 2 -36 52
28 30 18 3 54 106
29 34 R 17 2 -34 72
30 8 R 17 3 -51 21
31 8 R 17 4 -68 -47
32 1 R 17 5 -85 -132
33 35 17 6 114 -18
34 10 R 16 5 -80 -98
35 27 R 16 6 -96 -194
36 8 R 16 7 -112 -306
37 2 16 8 160 -146
38 6 R 15 7 -105 -251
39 16 R 15 8 -120 -371
40 32 15 9 189 -182
41 16 R 14 8 -112 -294
42 36 R 14 9 -126 -420
43 20 R 14 10 -140 -560
44 9 14 11 242 -318
45 24 13 10 230 -88
46 16 R 12 9 -108 -196
47 28 R 12 10 -120 -316
48 26 12 11 264 -52
49 13 R 11 10 -110 -162
50 26 R 11 11 -121 -283
51 6 R 11 12 -132 -415
52 30 R 11 13 -143 -558
53 28 R 11 14 -154 -712
54 10 R 11 15 -165 -877
55 5 11 16 400 -477
56 15 10 15 390 -87
57 3 R 9 14 -126 -213
58 31 9 15 405 192
59 15 R 8 14 -112 80
60 5 R 8 15 -120 -40
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 26, 08:38 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on May 26, 01:44 AM 2016
How about....track 10 spins as always. Wait the first repeater. And bet once after that.

Win or lose. ..reset
Flat

:P
Now keeping on topic its win 50/+50. But as the topic went on, it was suggested to take the early win.
So if you bet spin 11 and lose, do not rebet untill the non-hit has come in. Now bet the remaining non-hit with the plused unit, if this loses,again stop and wait for the non-hit to come. You would then bet the remaining with +1, if win, minus the unit on remaining non-hit.
Again its about you making a decision.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 27, 06:31 AM 2016
27.5.16 KTF +62
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 9 37
2 15 36
3 13 35
4 9 R 34
5 7 34
6 9 R 33
7 32 33
8 15 R 32
9 24 32
10 17 31
11 16 30 1 6 6
12 18 29 1 7 13
13 4 28 1 8 21
14 1 27 1 9 30
15 2 26 1 10 40
16 17 R 25 1 -25 15
17 29 25 2 22 37
18 0 24 1 12 49
19 10 23 1 13 62
20 20 22 1 14 76
21 0 R 21 1 -21 55
22 9 R 21 2 -42 13
23 26 21 3 45 58
24 12 20 2 32 90
25 20 R 19 1 -19 71
26 35 19 2 34 105
27 29 R 18 1 -18 87
28 26 R 18 2 -36 51
29 1 R 18 3 -54 -3
30 26 R 18 4 -72 -75
31 13 R 18 5 -90 -165
32 7 R 18 6 -108 -273
33 31 18 7 126 -147
34 8 17 6 114 -33
35 14 16 5 100 67
36 5 15 4 84 151
37 0 R 14 3 -42 109
38 10 R 14 4 -56 53
39 28 14 5 110 163
40 12 R 13 4 -52 111
41 27 13 5 115 226
42 21 12 4 96 322
43 34 11 3 75 397
44 7 R 10 2 -20 377
45 16 R 10 3 -30 347
46 21 R 10 4 -40 307
47 35 R 10 5 -50 257
48 17 R 10 6 -60 197
49 33 10 7 182 379
50 12 R 9 6 -54 325
51 20 R 9 7 -63 262
52 3 9 8 216 478
53 29 R 8 7 -56 422
54 3 R 8 8 -64 358
55 26 R 8 9 -72 286
56 4 R 8 10 -80 206
57 5 R 8 11 -88 118
58 13 R 8 12 -96 22
59 20 R 8 13 -104 -82
60 20 R 8 14 -112 -194
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 28, 05:30 AM 2016
28.5.16 KTF +69
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 19 37
2 8 36
3 34 35
4 18 34
5 31 33
6 27 32
7 23 31
8 28 30
9 24 29
10 10 28
11 12 27 1 9 9
12 35 26 1 10 19
13 12 R 25 1 -25 -6
14 7 25 2 22 16
15 9 24 1 12 28
16 10 R 23 1 -23 5
17 6 23 2 26 31
18 31 R 22 1 -22 9
19 10 R 22 2 -44 -35
20 32 22 3 42 7
21 22 21 2 30 37
22 24 R 20 1 -20 17
23 18 R 20 2 -40 -23
24 32 R 20 3 -60 -83
25 25 20 4 64 -19
26 18 R 19 3 -57 -76
27 16 19 4 68 -8
28 26 18 3 54 46
29 6 R 17 2 -34 12
30 0 17 3 57 69
31 24 R 16 2 -32 37
32 20 16 3 60 97
33 13 15 2 42 139
34 18 R 14 1 -14 125
35 8 R 14 2 -28 97
36 20 R 14 3 -42 55
37 29 14 4 88 143
38 11 13 3 69 212
39 34 R 12 2 -24 188
40 8 R 12 3 -36 152
41 22 R 12 4 -48 104
42 9 R 12 5 -60 44
43 30 12 6 144 188
44 0 R 11 5 -55 133
45 10 R 11 6 -66 67
46 25 R 11 7 -77 -10
47 35 R 11 8 -88 -98
48 9 R 11 9 -99 -197
49 9 R 11 10 -110 -307
50 11 R 11 11 -121 -428
51 36 11 12 300 -128
52 34 R 10 11 -110 -238
53 17 10 12 312 74
54 22 R 9 11 -99 -25
55 20 R 9 12 -108 -133
56 34 R 9 13 -117 -250
57 6 R 9 14 -126 -376
58 13 R 9 15 -135 -511
59 32 R 9 16 -144 -655
60 5 9 17 459 -196
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 28, 05:50 AM 2016
Notto,

Are the results of post games you have played for real money!

As I believe in one of your post you say you don't actually play the live wheel game!?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 28, 07:22 AM 2016
Correct i dont actually play on J247.com, i used it as the experts say airball is a live spin, to show how just betting the non-hit can make 50/+50.
Yesterdays 70 mile round trip to the B+M, KTF did the job.
But on RNG different story, from 2007 i've had to adapt betting just non-hit. Make a change to the progression, works fine for sometime,then start to lose, back to the drawing board, get avg to hit and max to hit, works fine ,then overtime start to become hard to win.
Now its come to the point if start to KTF, repeats start end 4,-1, if start to just watch,cheap spin then the non-hit fly in.
Like spins 11-20 ends 9,+4, so if 1-10 was 10/10 19 non-hit, what is it avg, 15 non-hit in 30 spins and 9 in 10 spins, so repeats, no if go for repeat, get 5/6 more non-hit, RNG.
So B+M i've got to go, the rng  just learns, or the programmers learn to make you lose.
The manager of a shop said one of their best punters made a point, left off just 1# and in 6 spins it hit that 1# 4 times, does make you wonder, Turner will love that, the littleblack box in the machine  :twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 28, 04:43 PM 2016
Soo your only playing KFT in a real Casino!?

Also did you say you have been playing this method from 2007?

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 29, 05:30 AM 2016
29.5.16 KTF +51
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 7 37
2 6 36
3 4 35
4 35 34
5 3 33
6 4 R 32
7 34 32
8 35 R 31
9 36 31
10 29 30
11 20 29 1 7 7
12 29 R 28 1 -28 -21
13 14 28 2 16 -5
14 28 27 1 9 4
15 28 R 26 1 -26 -22
16 23 26 2 20 -2
17 5 25 1 11 9
18 30 24 1 12 21
19 29 R 23 1 -23 -2
20 11 23 2 26 24
21 14 R 22 1 -22 2
22 26 22 2 28 30
23 4 R 21 1 -21 9
24 24 21 2 30 39
25 11 R 20 1 -20 19
26 21 20 2 32 51
27 13 19 1 17 68
28 1 18 1 18 86
29 2 17 1 19 105
30 34 R 16 1 -16 89
31 2 R 16 2 -32 57
32 35 R 16 3 -48 9
33 17 16 4 80 89
34 9 15 3 63 152
35 5 R 14 2 -28 124
36 5 R 14 3 -42 82
37 24 R 14 4 -56 26
38 30 R 14 5 -70 -44
39 14 R 14 6 -84 -128
40 13 R 14 7 -98 -226
41 13 R 14 8 -112 -338
42 20 R 14 9 -126 -464
43 10 14 10 220 -244
44 10 R 13 9 -117 -361
45 21 R 13 10 -130 -491
46 29 R 13 11 -143 -634
47 12 13 12 276 -358
48 16 12 11 264 -94
49 27 11 10 250 156
50 16 R 10 9 -90 66
51 23 R 10 10 -100 -34
52 15 10 11 286 252
53 16 R 9 10 -90 162
54 36 R 9 11 -99 63
55 31 9 12 324 387
56 24 R 8 11 -88 299
57 29 R 8 12 -96 203
58 18 8 13 364 567
59 19 7 12 348 915
60 5 R 6 11 -66 849
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 30, 05:41 AM 2016
30.5.16 KTF +54
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 28 37
2 31 36
3 25 35
4 9 34
5 0 33
6 22 32
7 22 R 31
8 14 31
9 11 30
10 17 29
11 27 28 1 8 8
12 19 27 1 9 17
13 23 26 1 10 27
14 20 25 1 11 38
15 19 R 24 1 -24 14
16 27 R 24 2 -48 -34
17 21 24 3 36 2
18 27 R 23 2 -46 -44
19 34 23 3 39 -5
20 33 22 2 28 23
21 15 21 1 15 38
22 32 20 1 16 54
23 24 19 1 17 71
24 12 18 1 18 89
25 21 R 17 1 -17 72
26 29 17 2 38 110
27 30 16 1 20 130
28 9 R 15 1 -15 115
29 7 15 2 42 157
30 27 R 14 1 -14 143
31 33 R 14 2 -28 115
32 34 R 14 3 -42 73
33 19 R 14 4 -56 17
34 30 R 14 5 -70 -53
35 28 R 14 6 -84 -137
36 31 R 14 7 -98 -235
37 14 R 14 8 -112 -347
38 8 14 9 198 -149
39 30 R 13 8 -104 -253
40 5 13 9 207 -46
41 35 12 8 192 146
42 1 11 7 175 321
43 36 10 6 156 477
44 19 R 9 5 -45 432
45 6 9 6 162 594
46 12 R 8 5 -40 554
47 18 8 6 168 722
48 16 7 5 145 867
49 3 6 4 120 987
50 34 R 5 3 -15 972
51 3 R 5 4 -20 952
52 13 5 5 155 1107
53 17 R 4 4 -16 1091
54 7 R 4 5 -20 1071
55 26 4 6 192 1263
56 4 3 5 165 1428
57 31 R 2 4 -8 1420
58 9 R 2 5 -10 1410
59 4 R 2 6 -12 1398
60 33 R 2 7 -14 1384

Today 35 of the 37#'s hit in 60spins. Spin 69 #10 so just 1# left, #2
Whilst marking off the non-hit Psimoes cross roads looks like it would profit.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 31, 01:01 PM 2016
I delayed in posting and as usual only Celtic showed interest.
As i was taking the #'s i could see it was going to be a tough game and this does make you keep the faith.
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 4 37
2 30 36
3 10 35
4 10 R 34
5 2 34
6 13 33
7 7 32
8 20 31
9 11 30
10 25 29
11 35 28 1 8 8
12 13 R 27 1 -27 -19
13 28 27 2 18 -1
14 11 R 26 1 -26 -27
15 35 R 26 2 -52 -79
16 10 R 26 3 -78 -157
17 1 26 4 40 -117
18 28 R 25 3 -75 -192
19 11 R 25 4 -100 -292
20 5 25 5 55 -237
21 33 24 4 48 -189
22 1 R 23 3 -69 -258
23 18 23 4 52 -206
24 16 22 3 42 -164
25 19 21 2 30 -134
26 13 R 20 1 -20 -154
27 28 R 20 2 -40 -194
28 13 R 20 3 -60 -254
29 17 20 4 64 -190
30 34 19 3 51 -139
31 10 R 18 2 -36 -175
32 30 R 18 3 -54 -229
33 34 R 18 4 -72 -301
34 0 18 5 90 -211
35 28 R 17 4 -68 -279
36 5 R 17 5 -85 -364
37 11 R 17 6 -102 -466
38 7 R 17 7 -119 -585
39 18 R 17 8 -136 -721
40 21 17 9 171 -550
41 27 16 8 160 -390
42 2 R 15 7 -105 -495
43 36 15 8 168 -327
44 0 R 14 7 -98 -425
45 4 R 14 8 -112 -537
46 12 14 9 198 -339
47 1 R 13 8 -104 -443
48 0 R 13 9 -117 -560
49 21 R 13 10 -130 -690
50 26 13 11 253 -437
51 22 12 10 240 -197
52 24 11 9 225 28
53 29 10 8 208 236
54 23 9 7 189 425
55 11 R 8 6 -48 377
56 35 R 8 7 -56 321
57 1 R 8 8 -64 257
58 10 R 8 9 -72 185
59 36 R 8 10 -80 105
60 32 8 11 308 413
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Gzgzbee on May 31, 03:09 PM 2016
It's seems like if you always just play the 60 spin you make 100+
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Jun 03, 05:41 PM 2016
Notto

On this particular game you talk about ktf.
Looking at the table theres no where in this play where you could win. Its a loss from the on set basically. Have i missed something here.? Please correct me if Im incorrect.
Once you are deep in the hole it really is a massive struggle to gain anything from it.
Personally i see if you are not in profit by spin 30 its getting more risky by each spin. Personally its 2-5 spins and exit.

Thanks

Quote from: nottophammer on May 31, 01:01 PM 2016
I delayed in posting and as usual only Celtic showed interest.
As i was taking the #'s i could see it was going to be a tough game and this does make you keep the faith.
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 4 37
2 30 36
3 10 35
4 10 R 34
5 2 34
6 13 33
7 7 32
8 20 31
9 11 30
10 25 29
11 35 28 1 8 8
12 13 R 27 1 -27 -19
13 28 27 2 18 -1
14 11 R 26 1 -26 -27
15 35 R 26 2 -52 -79
16 10 R 26 3 -78 -157
17 1 26 4 40 -117
18 28 R 25 3 -75 -192
19 11 R 25 4 -100 -292
20 5 25 5 55 -237
21 33 24 4 48 -189
22 1 R 23 3 -69 -258
23 18 23 4 52 -206
24 16 22 3 42 -164
25 19 21 2 30 -134
26 13 R 20 1 -20 -154
27 28 R 20 2 -40 -194
28 13 R 20 3 -60 -254
29 17 20 4 64 -190
30 34 19 3 51 -139
31 10 R 18 2 -36 -175
32 30 R 18 3 -54 -229
33 34 R 18 4 -72 -301
34 0 18 5 90 -211
35 28 R 17 4 -68 -279
36 5 R 17 5 -85 -364
37 11 R 17 6 -102 -466
38 7 R 17 7 -119 -585
39 18 R 17 8 -136 -721
40 21 17 9 171 -550
41 27 16 8 160 -390
42 2 R 15 7 -105 -495
43 36 15 8 168 -327
44 0 R 14 7 -98 -425
45 4 R 14 8 -112 -537
46 12 14 9 198 -339
47 1 R 13 8 -104 -443
48 0 R 13 9 -117 -560
49 21 R 13 10 -130 -690
50 26 13 11 253 -437
51 22 12 10 240 -197
52 24 11 9 225 28
53 29 10 8 208 236
54 23 9 7 189 425
55 11 R 8 6 -48 377
56 35 R 8 7 -56 321
57 1 R 8 8 -64 257
58 10 R 8 9 -72 185
59 36 R 8 10 -80 105
60 32 8 11 308 413

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Jun 04, 08:32 AM 2016
Quote from: spartanrules on Jun 03, 05:41 PM 2016
Notto

On this particular game you talk about ktf.
Looking at the table theres no where in this play where you could win. Its a loss from the on set basically. Have i missed something here.? Please correct me if Im incorrect.

Not sure how you can say this loses when the payout table is right in front of you. :question:

Once you are deep in the hole it really is a massive struggle to gain anything from it.
--- Agreed but that is why it is called KTF

Personally i see if you are not in profit by spin 30 its getting more risky by each spin. Personally its 2-5 spins and exit.

--- If you play less than 60 spins then you are not following the KTF rules and therefore not playing KTF. By playing only 2-5 spins you are again changing the rules so you are not playing KTF.

I made several thousand dollars with KTF before they changed the wheel at my B&M and now the new replacement wheels do not allow enough time to place bets or else I would still be playing it. I only lost once and that was because, like you, I changed a rule and quit before the full 60 spins had been played. I quit with a -8 loss but would have ended up in profit if I had continued as I should have.

I think in most cases people want to play KTF but look for a way to play it with a small BR  --- That is a BIG MISTAKE!!!

-Celtic

Thanks
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Jun 04, 08:37 AM 2016
-Notto

For those that will not read prior postings in this tread would you please answer two questions:

1) How many Jackpot games of KTF have been played?
2) How many games have been lost??

Thank You.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Jun 04, 10:04 AM 2016
Hi Celticknits

Perhaps im miss reading the table.
On what spin from that game is the profit and exit point please.

Thanks in advance

Quote from: Celticknits on Jun 04, 08:32 AM 2016

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Jun 04, 11:09 AM 2016
Quote from: spartanrules on Jun 04, 10:04 AM 2016
Hi Celticknits

Perhaps im miss reading the table.
On what spin from that game is the profit and exit point please.

Thanks in advance


-Spartan

NOTE: At the top of the chart the header does not line up with the numbers.
The last figure (Bank) is your current profit or loss.

First win is +8 on Spin 1
Then Wins on all Spins 52-60.
This is all shown right on the scrolling sheet Notto posted and why I could not understand why you stated that it loses when clearly it wins.

Exit point, according to the KTF rules, would be spin 53 and profit would be +236.

Go back through the posts in this thread and find the rules.
I believe at one point Notto even posted a pdf or text file with the rules.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 04, 12:39 PM 2016
Spartan Today's #'s KTF +60 shown with Priyankas tester
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 22 37
2 11 36
3 11 R 35
4 2 35
5 20 34
6 11 R 33
7 11 R 33
8 28 33
9 0 32
10 9 31
11 34 30 1 6 6
12 7 29 1 7 13
13 30 28 1 8 21
14 15 27 1 9 30
15 11 R 26 1 -26 4
16 33 26 2 20 24
17 6 25 1 11 35
18 29 24 1 12 47
19 16 23 1 13 60
20 34 R 22 1 -22 38
21 8 22 2 28 66
22 4 21 1 15 81
23 35 20 1 16 97
24 36 19 1 17 114
25 11 R 18 1 -18 96
26 7 R 18 2 -36 60
27 21 18 3 54 114
28 17 17 2 38 152
29 19 16 1 20 172
30 23 15 1 21 193
31 0 R 14 1 -14 179
32 34 R 14 2 -28 151
33 10 14 3 66 217
34 17 R 13 2 -26 191
35 27 13 3 69 260
36 0 R 12 2 -24 236
37 9 R 12 3 -36 200
38 5 12 4 96 296
39 23 R 11 3 -33 263
40 23 R 11 4 -44 219
41 35 R 11 5 -55 164
42 20 R 11 6 -66 98
43 28 R 11 7 -77 21
44 11 R 11 8 -88 -67
45 26 11 9 225 158
46 29 R 10 8 -80 78
47 13 10 9 234 312
48 10 R 9 8 -72 240
49 12 9 9 243 483
50 21 R 8 8 -64 419
51 31 8 9 252 671
52 36 R 7 8 -56 615
53 2 R 7 9 -63 552
54 26 R 7 10 -70 482
55 26 R 7 11 -77 405
56 35 R 7 12 -84 321
57 35 R 7 13 -91 230
58 17 R 7 14 -98 132
59 26 R 7 15 -105 27
60 23 R 7 16 -112 -85
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 05, 01:20 PM 2016
Chancer sent these 60 spins from Multiplayer roulette game
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 27 37
2 34 36
3 25 35
4 27 R 34
5 32 34
6 28 33
7 13 32
8 20 31
9 3 30
10 29 29
11 33 28 1 8 8
12 28 R 27 1 -27 -19
13 31 27 2 18 -1
14 24 26 1 10 9
15 20 R 25 1 -25 -16
16 21 25 2 22 6
17 26 24 1 12 18
18 22 23 1 13 31
19 19 22 1 14 45
20 20 R 21 1 -21 24
21 33 R 21 2 -42 -18
22 26 R 21 3 -63 -81
23 17 21 4 60 -21
24 8 20 3 48 27
25 30 19 2 34 61
26 14 18 1 18 79
27 12 17 1 19 98
28 31 R 16 1 -16 82
29 11 16 2 40 122
30 35 15 1 21 143
31 23 14 1 22 165
32 9 13 1 23 188
33 2 12 1 24 212
34 8 R 11 1 -11 201
35 3 R 11 2 -22 179
36 25 R 11 3 -33 146
37 33 R 11 4 -44 102
38 19 R 11 5 -55 47
39 23 R 11 6 -66 -19
40 16 11 7 175 156
41 14 R 10 6 -60 96
42 9 R 10 7 -70 26
43 9 R 10 8 -80 -54
44 7 10 9 234 180
45 0 9 8 216 396
46 6 8 7 196 592
47 18 7 6 174 766
48 27 R 6 5 -30 736
49 13 R 6 6 -36 700
50 3 R 6 7 -42 658
51 13 R 6 8 -48 610
52 16 R 6 9 -54 556
53 20 R 6 10 -60 496
54 10 6 11 330 826
55 33 R 5 10 -50 776
56 12 R 5 11 -55 721
57 31 R 5 12 -60 661
58 1 5 13 403 1064
59 26 R 4 12 -48 1016
60 10 R 4 13 -52 964

Said its like express roulette, who'd ever want to have too place bets in that short time, made me chuckle  :lol:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Jun 08, 01:51 PM 2016

Hi Celticknits

Im fine with the ktf rules.

I was reading the table wrong due to the off lining of the columns. Hence why i couldn't work out where the profit gains were.
As always appreciate the input guys.
Im currently on the ktf journey and will report updates on hopefully decent profit gains.

Question - Do any of you play this with any certain preferences. What i mean is say wait for a repeat before betting, or a dealer change etc. Every half an hour is a dealer change.
Or you literally just hit a table record the last or current 10 spins and in you go as it makes no odds what so ever.

Thanks Spartan

Quote from: Celticknits on Jun 04, 11:09 AM 2016

-Spartan

NOTE: At the top of the chart the header does not line up with the numbers.
The last figure (Bank) is your current profit or loss.

First win is +8 on Spin 1
Then Wins on all Spins 52-60.
This is all shown right on the scrolling sheet Notto posted and why I could not understand why you stated that it loses when clearly it wins.

Exit point, according to the KTF rules, would be spin 53 and profit would be +236.

Go back through the posts in this thread and find the rules.
I believe at one point Notto even posted a pdf or text file with the rules.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 08, 02:12 PM 2016
I would play 0 or max 2 repeaters in first 10 spins.

Why don't you give it a try here on the roulette Steve provide?  (Notto you could do this too)

You get 1000 br....see how far it takes you.
would be a good demonstration for others as for yourself.

Download the clicker first....makes placing bet very easy  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 08, 02:26 PM 2016
Well I'll play it too....so everyone can see how KTF wins or loses......... :thumbsup:

My starting br will be 8300 units
As you can see on the pic

Hope others will join. ....this could settle this method once and for all  >:D

Tudillue, Celticknits,  Nottophammer,  Next year, ..............

I'll do a couple per day
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 08, 02:35 PM 2016
Voila first session done....easy one +50
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Jun 08, 03:12 PM 2016
Denz,

just do it!  :thumbsup:

But I don't think anything more needs to be proved...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 08, 03:15 PM 2016
Quote from: NextYear on Jun 08, 03:12 PM 2016
Denz,

just do it!  :thumbsup:

But I don't think anything more needs to be proved...

on the contrary my friend...
ive had my dosis of losing sessions too with ktf..
this way we could make it or break it... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 09, 02:53 PM 2016
+173 in 4 sessions now  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 09, 03:16 PM 2016
have not put up lately, still not lost the BR. But today look how many hit in 60 spins
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 36 37
2 6 36
3 19 35
4 13 34
5 5 33
6 31 32
7 24 31
8 36 R 30
9 3 30
10 25 29
11 1 28 1 8 8
12 33 27 1 9 17
13 20 26 1 10 27
14 5 R 25 1 -25 2
15 25 R 25 2 -50 -48
16 11 25 3 33 -15
17 7 24 2 24 9
18 20 R 23 1 -23 -14
19 12 23 2 26 12
20 12 R 22 1 -22 -10
21 3 R 22 2 -44 -54
22 9 22 3 42 -12
23 28 21 2 30 18
24 21 20 1 16 34
25 33 R 19 1 -19 15
26 34 19 2 34 49
27 6 R 18 1 -18 31
28 30 18 2 36 67
29 16 17 1 19 86
30 17 16 1 20 106
31 13 R 15 1 -15 91
32 0 15 2 42 133
33 35 14 1 22 155
34 24 R 13 1 -13 142
35 35 R 13 2 -26 116
36 22 13 3 69 185
37 17 R 12 2 -24 161
38 36 R 12 3 -36 125
39 35 R 12 4 -48 77
40 4 12 5 120 197
41 30 R 11 4 -44 153
42 29 11 5 125 278
43 16 R 10 4 -40 238
44 18 10 5 130 368
45 23 9 4 108 476
46 22 R 8 3 -24 452
47 5 R 8 4 -32 420
48 32 8 5 140 560
49 13 R 7 4 -28 532
50 27 7 5 145 677
51 28 R 6 4 -24 653
52 29 R 6 5 -30 623
53 13 R 6 6 -36 587
54 26 6 7 210 797
55 22 R 5 6 -30 767
56 14 5 7 217 984
57 33 R 4 6 -24 960
58 7 R 4 7 -28 932
59 2 4 8 256 1188
60 36 R 3 7 -21 1167
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 10, 04:28 AM 2016
Now like members i just wonder how KTF does so well using Jackpot 247.com airball.
My thought on why this is so.

Is by only playing the one game it's missing the RFH. There's, i suppose 24 hrs between games, so this is why its 1 game win your chosen amount, then go to another wheel where you have a new 37 spin cycle, or wait for 60 spins and then start again,as Jackpot avg doc shows the average for non-hit to hit in 60 spins = 30.5,

Yesterday 34 non-hit (0x), hit in 60 spins, 8/6/16 had 32 0x's in 55 spins.

Not a dig at the math brigade, your math shows all 0x could be hit in 155 spins, but real play shows how fast 0x's do hit, quick enough for some methods using 0x's to be winners.

Is this why the B+M, the wheel is spun in shorter times making it harder to place 27 units? Just look at the multi player game ridiculously fast, but at the B+M if you're lucky enough to have a partner who will play one half of the 36 whilst you play the other half, KTF is playable. So when they realise 2 players are playing one game and winning are they going to spin faster.
When the tables get busy i can place the units my self.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 10, 05:18 AM 2016
Todays program was 109 minutes, recorded 55 spins like the 8/6/16 that had 34 0x in 55 spins, well today 28 0x in 55 spins,shame we did not get 60 spins, would it get the avg of 30 0x,in 60 spins?

The avg for spins 11-40, 15 in 30 spins was made, but not to the 7,5,3 it was 6,5,4 the 15 in 30 spins.
Knew this was going to have the potential of being hard to meet Priyanka's 50/+50 as it was 7/10.

KTF +133, think i'd have took the +41

Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 24 37
2 22 36
3 31 35
4 24 R 34
5 20 34
6 36 33
7 2 32
8 6 31
9 24 R 30
10 36 R 30
11 5 30 1 6 6
12 7 29 1 7 13
13 22 R 28 1 -28 -15
14 6 R 28 2 -56 -71
15 10 28 3 24 -47
16 24 R 27 2 -54 -101
17 33 27 3 27 -74
18 21 26 2 20 -54
19 22 R 25 1 -25 -79
20 11 25 2 22 -57
21 34 24 1 12 -45
22 33 R 23 1 -23 -68
23 18 23 2 26 -42
24 35 22 1 14 -28
25 33 R 21 1 -21 -49
26 5 R 21 2 -42 -91
27 11 R 21 3 -63 -154
28 35 R 21 4 -84 -238
29 29 21 5 75 -163
30 28 20 4 64 -99
31 18 R 19 3 -57 -156
32 30 19 4 68 -88
33 6 R 18 3 -54 -142
34 14 18 4 72 -70
35 23 17 3 57 -13
36 31 R 16 2 -32 -45
37 16 16 3 60 15
38 28 R 15 2 -30 -15
39 7 R 15 3 -45 -60
40 24 R 15 4 -60 -120
41 33 R 15 5 -75 -195
42 9 15 6 126 -69
43 32 14 5 110 41
44 27 13 4 92 133
45 29 R 12 3 -36 97
46 30 R 12 4 -48 49
47 6 R 12 5 -60 -11
48 18 R 12 6 -72 -83
49 1 12 7 168 85
50 20 R 11 6 -66 19
51 12 11 7 175 194
52 15 10 6 156 350
53 5 R 9 5 -45 305
54 22 R 9 6 -54 251
55 5 R 9 7 -63 188
56
57
58
59
60
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 10, 03:23 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Jun 09, 02:53 PM 2016
+173 in 4 sessions now  :thumbsup:

+308 in 7 sessions  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 10, 03:42 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Jun 10, 03:23 PM 2016
+308 in 7 sessions  :thumbsup:

+351 in 8 sessions  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Jun 10, 06:27 PM 2016
Same here at the moment.

Currently up 550.
Will check in once the BR has been made.
Lets keep the faith... :-))

Quote from: denzie on Jun 10, 03:42 PM 2016
+351 in 8 sessions  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jun 10, 06:28 PM 2016
Quote from: spartanrules on Jun 10, 06:27 PM 2016
Same here at the moment.

Currently up 550.
Will check in once the BR has been made.
Lets keep the faith... :-))

Ktf?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Jun 11, 05:04 AM 2016

Hi mate.

Yeah Ktf.
I personally just like to wait till i have at least one repeat in the first 10 spins.
I know its not in the rule book but more personal preference.
It doesn't make a blind bit of different though with Ktf. Also i prefer live tables and not rng.






Quote from: RouletteGhost on Jun 10, 06:28 PM 2016
Ktf?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 11, 06:14 AM 2016
I have not posted about games of late, seemed that the idea of just betting non-hit and stop when you're happy with a plus amount, was done, like WTF seems to be losing interest.
I still record every game so to build the average doc, not long and 200 games will be up.

Todays game, have to report it lost the 800, the last losing game was way backkkkkkkkkkkk.
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 26 37
2 14 36
3 25 35
4 15 34
5 3 33
6 8 32
7 24 31
8 10 30
9 28 29
10 1 28
11 23 27 1 9 9
12 0 26 1 10 19
13 4 25 1 11 30
14 8 R 24 1 -24 6
15 23 R 24 2 -48 -42
16 21 24 3 36 -6
17 13 23 2 26 20
18 21 R 22 1 -22 -2
19 26 R 22 2 -44 -46
20 7 22 3 42 -4
21 29 21 2 30 26
22 13 R 20 1 -20 6
23 25 R 20 2 -40 -34
24 12 20 3 48 14
25 7 R 19 2 -38 -24
26 8 R 19 3 -57 -81
27 0 R 19 4 -76 -157
28 3 R 19 5 -95 -252
29 25 R 19 6 -114 -366
30 21 R 19 7 -133 -499
31 20 19 8 136 -363
32 33 18 7 126 -237
33 10 R 17 6 -102 -339
34 25 R 17 7 -119 -458
35 8 R 17 8 -136 -594
36 28 R 17 9 -153 -747
37 21 R 17 10 -170 -917
38 22 17 11 209 -708
39 29 R 16 10 -160 -868
40 2 16 11 220 -648
41 26 R 15 10 -150 -798
42 27 15 11 231 -567
43 16 14 10 220 -347
44 27 R 13 9 -117 -464
45 24 R 13 10 -130 -594
46 7 R 13 11 -143 -737
47 7 R 13 12 -156 -893
48 36 13 13 299 -594
49 34 12 12 288 -306
50 22 R 11 11 -121 -427
51 21 R 11 12 -132 -559
52 1 R 11 13 -143 -702
53 8 R 11 14 -154 -856
54 1 R 11 15 -165 -1021
55 R
56 R
57 R
58 R
59 R
60 R
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 11, 09:17 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Jun 10, 03:42 PM 2016
+351 in 8 sessions  :thumbsup:

+425 in 9 sessions  :thumbsup:

real ktf session though
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Jun 11, 10:05 AM 2016
Great work still, you two!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jun 11, 11:28 AM 2016
Looks great

I just dont see how it can be played on live dealer brick and morter

When i get the chance i will attempt on airball when the wheel is full
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Jun 11, 11:43 AM 2016
Quote
When i get the chance i will attempt on airball when the wheel is full

Why must the wheel be full?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 11, 01:29 PM 2016
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Jun 11, 11:28 AM 2016
Looks great

I just dont see how it can be played on live dealer brick and morter

Why not?

When i get the chance i will attempt on airball when the wheel is full

Why?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: onetaste on Jun 11, 02:15 PM 2016
Has there been any significant tweaks to the original strategy? Breezed through most of the thread. But am intrigued and like the idea of trying out a good number bet strategy for once.This one has def caught my eye.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 11, 02:24 PM 2016
Quote from: onetaste on Jun 11, 02:15 PM 2016
Has there been any significant tweaks to the original strategy? Breezed through most of the thread. But am intrigued and like the idea of trying out a good number bet strategy for once.This one has def caught my eye.

no tweaks.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 11, 03:02 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Jun 11, 09:17 AM 2016
+425 in 9 sessions  :thumbsup:

real ktf session though
+556 in 12 sessions
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Jun 11, 03:41 PM 2016

If anyone can test out a system its you Denzie. lol.
You got the misses on it as well.! :-))
My sessions are limited to week days due to having a bigger monitor for ease of play at the office.

Good effort so far Denzie.

Quote from: denzie on Jun 11, 03:02 PM 2016
+556 in 12 sessions
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 11, 03:48 PM 2016
Quote from: spartanrules on Jun 11, 03:41 PM 2016
If anyone can test out a system its you Denzie. lol.
You got the misses on it as well.! :-))
My sessions are limited to week days due to having a bigger monitor for ease of play at the office.

Good effort so far Denzie.

Make it or break it....
And its easy to lie about stuff...so i test it where everyone can see it

Do you use the clicker?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: spartanrules on Jun 11, 04:19 PM 2016

Yeah a clicker is a must when playing online.
Especially when multi betting.

Quote from: denzie on Jun 11, 03:48 PM 2016
Make it or break it....
And its easy to lie about stuff...so i test it where everyone can see it

Do you use the clicker?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 11, 05:02 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Jun 11, 03:02 PM 2016
+556 in 12 sessions

+661 in 14 sessions  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jun 11, 05:08 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Jun 11, 01:29 PM 2016


what I mean is you cannot play KTF in a B and M in front of a dealer. no way can you get the bets down in time

only way to play live dealer with this is online

or with an airball machine

the general asked me why when the table is full?

well if the airball machine is in any way rigged common sense would say to play when it is full

I have seen some big wins on airball machines so I do not know if it is rigged
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 11, 05:29 PM 2016
Bust - 139  :-\
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 11, 05:32 PM 2016
so the last few pluses all gone or just the -139
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 11, 05:35 PM 2016
Started at 8300...now I'm at 8161
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Jun 12, 01:30 AM 2016
@Denz

You played continuously?
After win jump 10 back?
Wait next 10#?

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Jun 12, 03:20 AM 2016
Quotewell if the airball machine is in any way rigged common sense would say to play when it is full

Wow, you are soooo naive.   
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Jun 12, 05:30 AM 2016
@Denz

So, it was -800 that you hit?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 12, 06:08 AM 2016
Like yesterday a short airtime only 48 spins, but its down to how the player wants to play KTF, its been said to take an earlier win, good words
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 12 37
2 3 36
3 4 35
4 26 34
5 24 33
6 21 32
7 23 31
8 0 30
9 28 29
10 2 28
11 17 27 1 9 9
12 26 R 26 1 -26 -17
13 18 26 2 20 3
14 14 25 1 11 14
15 19 24 1 12 26
16 19 R 23 1 -23 3
17 10 23 2 26 29
18 7 22 1 14 43
19 4 R 21 1 -21 22
20 3 R 21 2 -42 -20
21 3 R 21 3 -63 -83
22 34 21 4 60 -23
23 21 R 20 3 -60 -83
24 11 20 4 64 -19
25 19 R 19 3 -57 -76
26 7 R 19 4 -76 -152
27 12 R 19 5 -95 -247
28 32 19 6 102 -145
29 26 R 18 5 -90 -235
30 4 R 18 6 -108 -343
31 4 R 18 7 -126 -469
32 35 18 8 144 -325
33 10 R 17 7 -119 -444
34 6 17 8 152 -292
35 0 R 16 7 -112 -404
36 26 R 16 8 -128 -532
37 7 R 16 9 -144 -676
38 22 16 10 200 -476
39 32 R 15 9 -135 -611
40 23 R 15 10 -150 -761
41 29 15 11 231 -530
42 15 14 10 220 -310
43 24 R 13 9 -117 -427
44 20 13 10 230 -197
45 33 12 9 216 19
46 31 11 8 200 219
47 23 R 10 7 -70 149
48 0 R 10 8 -80 69
49 R
50 R
51 R
52 R
53 R
54 R
55 R
56 R
57 R
58 R
59 R
60 R
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 12, 06:23 AM 2016
Yesterdays -800 
1-10 10/10, so at spin 40 we could see 25,+0?
11-20 6,+1
21-30 8,-2
31-40 22,-3,
spin 54, 26 non-hit. 
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 26 37
2 14 36
3 25 35
4 15 34
5 3 33
6 8 32
7 24 31
8 10 30
9 28 29
10 1 28
11 23 27 1 9 9
12 0 26 1 10 19
13 4 25 1 11 30
14 8 R 24 1 -24 6
15 23 R 24 2 -48 -42
16 21 24 3 36 -6
17 13 23 2 26 20
18 21 R 22 1 -22 -2
19 26 R 22 2 -44 -46
20 7 22 3 42 -4
21 29 21 2 30 26
22 13 R 20 1 -20 6
23 25 R 20 2 -40 -34
24 12 20 3 48 14
25 7 R 19 2 -38 -24
26 8 R 19 3 -57 -81
27 0 R 19 4 -76 -157
28 3 R 19 5 -95 -252
29 25 R 19 6 -114 -366
30 21 R 19 7 -133 -499
31 20 19 8 136 -363
32 33 18 7 126 -237
33 10 R 17 6 -102 -339
34 25 R 17 7 -119 -458
35 8 R 17 8 -136 -594
36 28 R 17 9 -153 -747
37 21 R 17 10 -170 -917
38 22 17 11 209 -708
39 29 R 16 10 -160 -868
40 2 16 11 220 -648
41 26 R 15 10 -150 -798
42 27 15 11 231 -567
43 16 14 10 220 -347
44 27 R 13 9 -117 -464
45 24 R 13 10 -130 -594
46 7 R 13 11 -143 -737
47 7 R 13 12 -156 -893
48 36 13 13 299 -594
49 34 12 12 288 -306
50 22 R 11 11 -121 -427
51 21 R 11 12 -132 -559
52 1 R 11 13 -143 -702
53 8 R 11 14 -154 -856
54 1 R 11 15 -165 -1021
55 R
56 R
57 R
58 R
59 R
60 R


Today +219 almost the same distribution of non-hits
1-10 10/10, so at spin 40 we could see25,+0?
11-20 6,+1
21-30 9, -1
31-40 22,-3
spin 48, 27 non-hit.
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 12 37
2 3 36
3 4 35
4 26 34
5 24 33
6 21 32
7 23 31
8 0 30
9 28 29
10 2 28
11 17 27 1 9 9
12 26 R 26 1 -26 -17
13 18 26 2 20 3
14 14 25 1 11 14
15 19 24 1 12 26
16 19 R 23 1 -23 3
17 10 23 2 26 29
18 7 22 1 14 43
19 4 R 21 1 -21 22
20 3 R 21 2 -42 -20
21 3 R 21 3 -63 -83
22 34 21 4 60 -23
23 21 R 20 3 -60 -83
24 11 20 4 64 -19
25 19 R 19 3 -57 -76
26 7 R 19 4 -76 -152
27 12 R 19 5 -95 -247
28 32 19 6 102 -145
29 26 R 18 5 -90 -235
30 4 R 18 6 -108 -343
31 4 R 18 7 -126 -469
32 35 18 8 144 -325
33 10 R 17 7 -119 -444
34 6 17 8 152 -292
35 0 R 16 7 -112 -404
36 26 R 16 8 -128 -532
37 7 R 16 9 -144 -676
38 22 16 10 200 -476
39 32 R 15 9 -135 -611
40 23 R 15 10 -150 -761
41 29 15 11 231 -530
42 15 14 10 220 -310
43 24 R 13 9 -117 -427
44 20 13 10 230 -197
45 33 12 9 216 19
46 31 11 8 200 219
47 23 R 10 7 -70 149
48 0 R 10 8 -80 69
49 R
50 R
51 R
52 R
53 R
54 R
55 R
56 R
57 R
58 R
59 R
60 R
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Jun 12, 06:39 AM 2016
Notto, you are all in maths and statistics!  :twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 12, 08:52 AM 2016
went thru the £8'000 but the loss on 11.6.16 took KTF back £7'250, now stands at £ 7'469
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 13, 04:33 AM 2016
Quote from: NextYear on Jun 12, 05:30 AM 2016
@Denz

So, it was -800 that you hit?

Yep
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 13, 04:34 AM 2016
Quote from: NextYear on Jun 12, 01:30 AM 2016
@Denz

You played continuously?
After win jump 10 back?
Wait next 10#?

I'm going for + 40
Then I jump about 10 numbers back.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 15, 08:12 AM 2016
So we who appreciate GUT are looking at Winkels analysis of Denzies game and now Nextyear.

Now KTF as you know is a simple method, just betting the non-hits over 60 spins.
The reason for KTF was to show how betting the non-hit can make money in spins 11-20, ( usually) On the airball results from jackpot 247.com.
It currently stands as +6814 after 10'321 spins.

Today took a hit.

Now you could stop and jump, like Winkel says, it can turn a bad trot into a winning trot.
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 33 37
2 31 36
3 35 35
4 16 34
5 10 33
6 28 32
7 6 31
8 34 30
9 1 29
10 16 R 28
11 28 R 28 1 -28 -28
12 12 28 2 16 -12
13 11 27 1 9 -3
14 11 R 26 1 -26 -29
15 20 26 2 20 -9
16 5 25 1 11 2
17 20 R 24 1 -24 -22
18 14 24 2 24 2
19 34 R 23 1 -23 -21
20 31 R 23 2 -46 -67
21 32 23 3 39 -28
22 1 R 22 2 -44 -72
23 10 R 22 3 -66 -138
24 1 R 22 4 -88 -226
25 11 R 22 5 -110 -336
26 27 22 6 84 -252
27 6 R 21 5 -105 -357
28 36 21 6 90 -267
29 6 R 20 5 -100 -367
30 22 20 6 96 -271
31 28 R 19 5 -95 -366
32 31 R 19 6 -114 -480
33 15 19 7 119 -361
34 9 18 6 108 -253
35 12 R 17 5 -85 -338
36 3 17 6 114 -224
37 13 16 5 100 -124
38 6 R 15 4 -60 -184
39 15 R 15 5 -75 -259
40 16 R 15 6 -90 -349
41 33 R 15 7 -105 -454
42 32 R 15 8 -120 -574
43 5 R 15 9 -135 -709
44 6 R 15 10 -150 -859
45 6 R 15 11 -165 -1024
46 12 R 15 12 -180 -1204
47 35 R 15 13 -195 -1399
48 24 15 14 294 -1105
49 19 14 13 286 -819
50 34 R 13 12 -156 -975
51 31 R 13 13 -169 -1144
52 13 R 13 14 -182 -1326
53 2 13 15 345 -981
54 16 R 12 14 -168 -1149
55 17 12 15 360 -789
56 16 R 11 14 -154 -943
57 1 R 11 15 -165 -1108
58 17 R 11 16 -176 -1284
59 19 R 11 17 -187 -1471
60 26 11 18 450 -1021

So restart at spin 21, does Winkel know or what, just shows how the jump turned it around
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 32 37
2 1 36
3 10 35
4 1 R 34
5 11 34
6 27 33
7 6 32
8 36 31
9 6 R 30
10 22 30
11 28 29 1 7 7
12 31 28 1 8 15
13 15 27 1 9 24
14 9 26 1 10 34
15 12 25 1 11 45
16 3 24 1 12 57
17 13 23 1 13 70
18 6 R 22 1 -22 48
19 15 R 22 2 -44 4
20 16 22 3 42 46
21 33 21 2 30 76
22 32 R 20 1 -20 56
23 5 20 2 32 88
24 6 R 19 1 -19 69
25 6 R 19 2 -38 31
26 12 R 19 3 -57 -26
27 35 19 4 68 42
28 24 18 3 54 96
29 19 17 2 38 134
30 34 16 1 20 154
31 31 R 15 1 -15 139
32 13 R 15 2 -30 109
33 2 15 3 63 172
34 16 R 14 2 -28 144
35 17 14 3 66 210
36 16 R 13 2 -26 184
37 1 R 13 3 -39 145
38 17 R 13 4 -52 93
39 19 R 13 5 -65 28
40 26 13 6 138 166
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60


Lesson is to understand the trot and that needs practice like Azim said.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Jun 15, 10:57 AM 2016
You can restart after this original situation
20 31 R 23 2 -46 -67

Like this

31 28 29 3 21 -46
32 31 28 2 16 -30
33 15 27 1 9 -21
34 9 26 1 10 -11
35 12 25 1 11   0
36 3 24 1 12 12
37 13 23 1 13 25
....

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 15, 12:42 PM 2016
exactly.
No ones made to go to spin 60, if theres to many repeats,then why not reset
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: onetaste on Jun 15, 11:41 PM 2016
Gentz still having a good go with this one?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 16, 12:21 AM 2016
Myself I can't get ahead. Played real as here and both lost. Now trying the new tweak though. So did wtf lost horrible.

No disrespect to anyone,  just telling my results.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Jun 16, 02:42 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Jun 16, 12:21 AM 2016
Myself I can't get ahead. Played real as here and both lost. Now trying the new tweak though. So did wtf lost horrible.

No disrespect to anyone,  just telling my results.
With the new tweak you mean reset or?

Yes wtf you can loose horrible do you want to share the numbers?

Sad to hear that you lost, but we always do that from time to time..

- Tuddilue
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 16, 05:48 AM 2016
Dont take this out of context ( think thats the word) This is why  i came to KTF.
Below is from GUT Blog
Pls print different trots and compare: where are which hits more possible:
In first 13 there are mostly "new" numbers hit what KTF wants
In the second 12 there are new and once hit Aren't we shown its possible for 7/8,0x'sThese 7/8,0x's are where the trot makes or breaks KTF
In the 3rd 12 there all (0s, 1s, 2s) hitting usually KTF has won

Only 5 loses in 170 games

So this is why like in GUT its your decision when to stop?
Below todays jackpot247.com game  KTF +57  Like CelticKnits would see at spin 20, 8,+3 is it WTF time?
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 17 37
2 14 36
3 9 35
4 29 34
5 2 33
6 14 R 32
7 18 32
8 26 31
9 27 30
10 26 R 29
11 6 29 1 7 7
12 8 28 1 8 15
13 15 27 1 9 24
14 5 26 1 10 34
15 23 25 1 11 45
16 19 24 1 12 57
17 21 23 1 13 70
18 29 R 22 1 -22 48
19 17 R 22 2 -44 4
20 10 22 3 42 46
21 6 R 21 2 -42 4
22 13 21 3 45 49
23 25 20 2 32 81
24 34 19 1 17 98
25 24 18 1 18 116
26 2 R 17 1 -17 99
27 26 R 17 2 -34 65
28 1 17 3 57 122
29 12 16 2 40 162
30 2 R 15 1 -15 147
31 30 15 2 42 189
32 21 R 14 1 -14 175
33 23 R 14 2 -28 147
34 21 R 14 3 -42 105
35 8 R 14 4 -56 49
36 12 R 14 5 -70 -21
37 32 14 6 132 111
38 20 13 5 115 226
39 13 R 12 4 -48 178
40 19 R 12 5 -60 118
41 22 12 6 144 262
42 19 R 11 5 -55 207
43 23 R 11 6 -66 141
44 8 R 11 7 -77 64
45 17 R 11 8 -88 -24
46 19 R 11 9 -99 -123
47 29 R 11 10 -110 -233
48 18 R 11 11 -121 -354
49 13 R 11 12 -132 -486
50 13 R 11 13 -143 -629
51 35 11 14 350 -279
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 16, 06:39 AM 2016
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=14735.30

Replies 41,43,and definetly 44

The more info you understand on 37, 0x's the better
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Jun 16, 07:34 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Jun 16, 06:39 AM 2016
link:://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=14735.30

Replies 41,43,and definetly 44

The more info you understand on 37, 0x's the better
Interesting nottophammer!

But reply 44 is also saying that in average you will hit an repeat after 6,7,8 0x numbers.
For me it depends on what happens in the trott. If it is a fast trott then 0x is preferred to bet at but is it a slow or normal I almost always play for 1x.

I think the GUT is getting closer to what is happening. 0x can be a gamble to game at because you need to bet on it early in the 37, as you also has said.
With 1x it easier to make a decision later in the trott if you are going to bet on it or not.

To combine them I think is the way to go forward...

-Tuddilue
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Jun 16, 07:41 AM 2016
Sunday we will see a better way to catch those 0s. And it doesn't require 800u br.

Btw Notto the tweak so far keeps me ahead.
testing testing testing testing testing  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Jun 16, 08:16 AM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Jun 16, 07:41 AM 2016
Sunday we will see a better way to catch those 0s. And it doesn't require 800u br.

Btw Notto the tweak so far keeps me ahead.
testing testing testing testing testing  :thumbsup:
Catching the 0x that doesn't require 800u sounds good, looking forward it.

I have asked about the tweak before, is it the reset or?

- Tuddilue
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Celticknits on Jun 16, 10:37 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Jun 16, 05:48 AM 2016
.....................................
Below todays jackpot247.com game  KTF +57  Like CelticKnits would see at spin 20, 8,+3 is it WTF time?
....................................


I would have started betting WTF Single Repeats at spin 16 based on GUT tracking and averages.

I posted a full payout sheet and explanations in the WTF thread.

-Celtic
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 16, 03:18 PM 2016
Okay flat bet, you know the value of a win on each non-hit, you know on average in spins 11-40 you get 15 non-hit.
So KTF can win flat bet, but the repeats that come early could potentially make it lose.
Today’s jackpot wins flat bet.
29-36
28-36
27-36
26-36
25-36
24-36
23-36,  +70
22- 0
22- 0
22-36
21- 0
21-36
20-36
19-36
18-36
17- 0
17- 0
17-36
16-36
15- 0
14- 0
14- 0
14- 0
14- 0
14- 0
14-36
out 528  in 576 = +48
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Jun 16, 03:28 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Jun 16, 03:18 PM 2016
Okay flat bet, you know the value of a win on each non-hit, you know on average in spins 11-40 you get 15 non-hit.
So KTF can win flat bet, but the repeats that come early could potentially make it lose.
Today’s jackpot wins flat bet.
29-36
28-36
27-36
26-36
25-36
24-36
23-36,  +70
22- 0
22- 0
22-36
21- 0
21-36
20-36
19-36
18-36
17- 0
17- 0
17-36
16-36
15- 0
14- 0
14- 0
14- 0
14- 0
14- 0
14-36
out 528  in 576 = +48
Yes impressive!
What do you mean with the 36 number?
- Tuddilue
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 16, 03:44 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Jun 16, 03:18 PM 2016
Okay flat bet, you know the value of a win on each non-hit, you know on average in spins 11-40 you get 15 non-hit.
So KTF can win flat bet, but the repeats that come early could potentially make it lose.
Today’s jackpot wins flat bet.
29-36
28-36
27-36
26-36
25-36
24-36
23-36,  +70
22- 0
22- 0
22-36
21- 0
21-36
20-36
19-36
18-36
17- 0
17- 0
17-36
16-36
15- 0      i missed a win here
15-36
14- 0
14- 0
14- 0
14- 0
14- 0
14-36
out 528  in 576 = +48


The 36 is the full return 35+1, 16*36=576, in fact there was 17 wins today i was working on just 16 wins, i did not look at spins 1-10, 8/10 and we end up with 25 non-hit in the 30 spins, i've put the extra 15 - 36 in. Been a long day through the footie win, England
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 16, 03:45 PM 2016
Now the Falkor part,

Could he work out a table for each spin, 11-40. When say spins 11-14 win and 15 loses, we/you need to know how the rest of the spins could damage a win from the 15 non-hits, if say spins 16,17 win, then 18 loses and 19 loses, spin 20 wins. Would flat betting still from spin 21 with 8 potential wins still to come make a profit. It would be like an A-Z of spins 11-40,showing all potential out comes, would that be possible?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 16, 03:47 PM 2016
See the beer head is not working reply 1360 should been reply to 1358
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 16, 04:03 PM 2016
Unlike Gut where we watch for crossings, here we just need to know how the repeats during the 30 spins, 11-40, muck up the chance to win whilst flat betting,
Below from Luck of the Irish

This is a test I did in November.  I tested over 1 million single zero RNG spins and got this:

2    3210
3    6251
4    9017
5    10906
6    12398
7    12852
8    12454
9    11478
10    10007
11    8619
12    6845
13    5243
14    3857
15    2730
16    1816
17    1128
18    687
19    355
20    246
21    96
22    61
23    29
24    16
25    5
26    3
27    0
28    0
29    0
30    0
31    0
32    0
33    0
34    0
35    0
36    0

The most unique numbers in a row was 25 (The 26 means it hit on the 26th spin, so 25 unique numbers in a row) and this happened only 3 times.

So if the above 25 unique came and we are flat betting from spin 11 we/you would win all 15 nonhits.
This is why we need to know every multiple W/L scenario for spins 11-40, How many ways that could happen, i dare not guess
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Jun 16, 04:04 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Jun 16, 03:44 PM 2016
The 36 is the full return 35+1, 16*36=576, in fact there was 17 wins today i was working on just 16 wins, i did not look at spins 1-10, 8/10 and we end up with 25 non-hit in the 30 spins, i've put the extra 15 - 36 in. Been a long day through the footie win, England
Ok Thanks,  I understand now!
Yes congratulations to the win!
- Tuddilue
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 17, 10:07 AM 2016
Been playing on the multi player, can get the chips on,but if prog goes up have to think how to use chip values.
From whats been spinning this morning playing like RNG, at 40th to many games have been -3, on the airball its the other way round.
13th spin 24-13-0, 3 games out of 4, something about virgins?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 18, 05:43 AM 2016
started on the backfoot today but you KTF +111
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 23 37
2 22 36
3 27 35
4 11 34
5 33 33
6 26 32
7 26 R 31
8 1 31
9 26 R 30
10 36 30
11 33 R 29 1 -29 -29
12 8 29 2 14 -15
13 27 R 28 1 -28 -43
14 25 28 2 16 -27
15 14 27 1 9 -18
16 12 26 1 10 -8
17 12 R 25 1 -25 -33
18 26 R 25 2 -50 -83
19 16 25 3 33 -50
20 24 24 2 24 -26
21 16 R 23 1 -23 -49
22 3 23 2 26 -23
23 25 R 22 1 -22 -45
24 30 22 2 28 -17
25 21 21 1 15 -2
26 27 R 20 1 -20 -22
27 14 R 20 2 -40 -62
28 8 R 20 3 -60 -122
29 11 R 20 4 -80 -202
30 23 R 20 5 -100 -302
31 13 20 6 96 -206
32 6 19 5 85 -121
33 5 18 4 72 -49
34 36 R 17 3 -51 -100
35 18 17 4 76 -24
36 19 16 3 60 36
37 21 R 15 2 -30 6
38 8 R 15 3 -45 -39
39 29 15 4 84 45
40 9 14 3 66 111
41 33 R 13 2 -26 85
42 18 R 13 3 -39 46
43 0 13 4 92 138
44 25 R 12 3 -36 102
45 29 R 12 4 -48 54
46 19 R 12 5 -60 -6
47 2 12 6 144 138
48 19 R 11 5 -55 83
49 27 R 11 6 -66 17
50 21 R 11 7 -77 -60
51 20 11 8 200 140
52 11 R 10 7 -70 70
53 13 R 10 8 -80 -10
54 0 R 10 9 -90 -100
55 1 R 10 10 -100 -200
56 16 R 10 11 -110 -310
57 28 10 12 312 2
58 32 9 11 297 299
59 15 8 10 280 579
60 6 R 7 9 -63 516
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 19, 02:46 AM 2016
And as 11r is my max I've seen till today....I would know around 10r to go for the 0x  

Denzie, i know this KTF, the ? is what non-hit was where it waited for 11 spins to hit. The non-hit was the 20th?

Each 0x has its own max to hit, going for the 11th,0x, staking 27 units has to date on jackpot 247 a max of 4 spins.
So if the 11r is for the 20th 0x, you'll have to consider that it averages to hit with in 3 spins,
Now if the 20th 0x has missed for 3 spins and your own max to hit is 11 spins, you could expect to see another 8 spins, this is where you'd be leaving GUT as there is 18 non-hit to bet 2 times only,
How do you handle the other potentially 9 spins, it could always go futher? if you could bet it for 5 spins and you said i'd give it 1 more spin so max of 12, you take your 5 spins away, would mean you'd have to wait for 7 spins1 spin 79
2 45
3 18
4 18
     4
     5
     4
     0
     0
     1

so the above is for the 20th non-hit and has taken a max to hit 10 spins once in 174 games, its hit on the 7th spin 4 times, if you'd bet for 5 spins max you'd have lost 10 times.

Its like a game of chess, knowledge how 0x's can behave is a help,
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 19, 04:27 AM 2016
Now we've heard old wind bag General in Mumbo Jumbo say LOTT is waist of time, but as mumbo is going to show? the LOTT is always there, like on todays #'s, spin 38, theres 25, non-hits come.
If you follow Winkel and the trot, here we'd be thinking is it  going to be a repeating game, so watch the trot, but this is KTF, where you keep faith with just betting non-hits.
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 22 37
2 11 36
3 0 35
4 4 34
5 24 33
6 33 32
7 36 31
8 0 R 30
9 29 30
10 22 R 29
11 15 29 1 7 7
12 10 28 1 8 15
13 15 R 27 1 -27 -12
14 10 R 27 2 -54 -66
15 24 R 27 3 -81 -147
16 22 R 27 4 -108 -255
17 3 27 5 45 -210
18 25 26 4 40 -170
19 2 25 3 33 -137
20 23 24 2 24 -113
21 10 R 23 1 -23 -136
22 29 R 23 2 -46 -182
23 26 23 3 39 -143
24 21 22 2 28 -115
25 30 21 1 15 -100
26 25 R 20 1 -20 -120
27 27 20 2 32 -88
28 17 19 1 17 -71
29 21 R 18 1 -18 -89
30 20 18 2 36 -53
31 9 17 1 19 -34
32 32 16 1 20 -14
33 33 R 15 1 -15 -29
34 10 R 15 2 -30 -59
35 14 15 3 63 4
36 7 14 2 44 48
37 5 13 1 23 71
38 32 R 12 1 -12 59
39 34 12 2 48 107
40 4 R 11 1 -11 96
41 11 R 11 2 -22 74
42 24 R 11 3 -33 41
43 19 11 4 100 141
44 12 10 3 78 219
45 9 R 9 2 -18 201
46 13 9 3 81 282
47 25 R 8 2 -16 266
48 35 8 3 84 350
49 18 7 2 58 408
50 13 R 6 1 -6 402
51 13 R 6 2 -12 390
52 14 R 6 3 -18 372
53 8 6 4 120 492
54 6 5 3 93 585
55 21 R 4 2 -8 577
56 0 R 4 3 -12 565
57 2 R 4 4 -16 549
58 33 R 4 5 -20 529
59 2 R 4 6 -24 505
60 8 R 4 7 -28 477
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Jun 19, 05:09 AM 2016
Thanks Notto, the Forum is on your shoulders lately!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Jun 22, 05:14 AM 2016
This ktf tweak you and denzie is talking about. Can you give an example of what it is?
Thanks in advance..
- Tuddilue
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tomi20 on Jun 22, 10:06 AM 2016
Hi ,

i start testing KTF with rules described on the first page of topic..

Is ok to play on this page link:://:.roulettephysics.com/free-roulette-simulator/ , because  i dont have acc on real casino ?

Or link:://:.liveroulette.ie/ when is airball active?

Do you still use rules described on the first page or you  changed method during 90+ pages?

Big thanks to author for sharing method...

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 23, 04:41 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on May 03, 04:42 PM 2016
Yes nothing wrong with taking 20-30, like Winkel said in GUT you make the decision.
All i was saying after you play for sometime you will probably start to think about,what if or how about, then its no longer KTF.
Glad your winning with it.
Was i right thinking its simple to play, i hope so.

But i must confess i'm more a trot/count watcher than a KTF'er, I disregard all the math quoted to me as i just watch those 0X's and make a decision,from past game play and trot average, which i record for analysis.

Now i wonder how other roulette players have any understanding for the game, when i go to the B+M no buggers recording anything, in the uk bookies the same, so my conclussion is they must all be plasterering chips anyway anyhow anyway they choose
The line in red holds up, yesterday at Aspers all plasterers, could not see 1 person keeping note of the spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 23, 04:55 AM 2016
Quote from: tomi20 on Jun 22, 10:06 AM 2016Do you still use rules described on the first page or you  changed method during 90+ pages?
The only decision is what profit you want  to take.
I only post now on games where KTF has to win 50/+50 for a very respected member called Priyanka, during the posts it was suggested to lower the win target, but he/she said is it not to win 50/+50, so thats what i play it for now using numbers from Jackpot 247.com, airball, its still +7'000 after 176 games.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Jun 23, 05:25 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Jun 22, 05:14 AM 2016
This ktf tweak you and denzie is talking about. Can you give an example of what it is?
Thanks in advance..
- Tuddilue
Ok so you play mainly ktf as in the beginning. But this tweak does it exists or?
- Tuddilue
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 23, 05:49 AM 2016
I'll post todays sheet.
Its just an option to know of, would help on todays. But then if we Keep The Faith (KTF) it wins.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 23, 05:52 AM 2016
jackpot247 23.06.16
1 8
2 14
3 29
4 20
5 25
6 16
7 14
8 22
9 36
10 19
11 12
12 19
13 18
14 21
15 30
16 20
17 25
18 14
19 25
20 26
21 4
22 28
23 5
24 0
25 11
26 34
27 32
28 9
29 16
30 23
31 35
32 30
33 36
34 2
35 36
36 4
37 18
38 28
39 32
40 6
41 6
42 34
43 22
44 33
45 0
46 19
47 6
48 9
49 22
50 23
51 4
52 15
53 34
54 11
55 6
56 23
57 15
58 23
59 22
60 5

61 28
62 15
63 15
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 8 37
2 14 36
3 29 35
4 20 34
5 25 33
6 16 32
7 14 R 31
8 22 31
9 36 30
10 19 29
11 12 28 1 8 8
12 19 R 27 1 -27 -19
13 18 27 2 18 -1
14 21 26 1 10 9
15 30 25 1 11 20
16 20 R 24 1 -24 -4
17 25 R 24 2 -48 -52
18 14 R 24 3 -72 -124
19 25 R 24 4 -96 -220
20 26 24 5 60 -160
21 4 23 4 52 -108
22 28 22 3 42 -66
23 5 21 2 30 -36
24 0 20 1 16 -20
25 11 19 1 17 -3
26 34 18 1 18 15
27 32 17 1 19 34
28 9 16 1 20 54
29 16 R 15 1 -15 39
30 23 15 2 42 81
31 35 14 1 22 103
32 30 R 13 1 -13 90
33 36 R 13 2 -26 64
34 2 13 3 69 133
35 36 R 12 2 -24 109
36 4 R 12 3 -36 73
37 18 R 12 4 -48 25
38 28 R 12 5 -60 -35
39 32 R 12 6 -72 -107
40 6 12 7 168 61
41 6 R 11 6 -66 -5
42 34 R 11 7 -77 -82
43 22 R 11 8 -88 -170
44 33 11 9 225 55
45 0 R 10 8 -80 -25
46 19 R 10 9 -90 -115
47 6 R 10 10 -100 -215
48 9 R 10 11 -110 -325
49 22 R 10 12 -120 -445
50 23 R 10 13 -130 -575
51 4 R 10 14 -140 -715
52 15 10 15 390 -325
53 34 R 9 14 -126 -451
54 11 R 9 15 -135 -586
55 6 R 9 16 -144 -730
56 23 R 9 17 -153 -883
57 15 R 9 18 -162 -1045
58 23 R 9 19 -171 -1216
59 22 R 9 20 -180 -1396
60 5 R 9 21 -189 -1585
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 23, 06:01 AM 2016
No numbers for tomorrow as the leave win is on thru the night.  Vote out
Oh yes take a pen, like professor Cox who's just said MI5 might change your vote, said pencil they could rub out your vote of leave, got watch dirty Daves lot  :twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Lucky7Red on Jun 23, 07:44 AM 2016
Is it possible to play this in real casino, I mean will this really can outperform roulette in long run?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tomi20 on Jun 23, 07:55 AM 2016
I go through all pages, it takes few hours...

You talk always about reading trots, countback , avg file but all that dont make influence if you play KTF with same rules?
It only tells you when is best time to stop betting and take wins ?

Correct me if i'm wrong...
Did you play only KTF or you play other systems based on reading trots, countback?


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 23, 12:55 PM 2016
Okay Lucky7Red, tomi20

Just got back from Grosvenor Luton made 298 units.
Now i have not checked to see if this wins by just betting the non-hit. All i did was watch the trot,
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 23, 01:02 PM 2016
AR 1 Game 1
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 13 37
2 32 36
3 25 35
4 10 34
5 17 33
6 7 32
7 2 31
8 11 30
9 29 29
10 20 28
11 10 R 27 1 -27 -27
12 35 27 2 18 -9
13 35 R 26 1 -26 -35
14 21 26 2 20 -15
15 12 25 1 11 -4
16 21 R 24 1 -24 -28
17 31 24 2 24 -4
18 35 R 23 1 -23 -27
19 14 23 2 26 -1
20 23 22 1 14 13
21 29 R 21 1 -21 -8
22 26 21 2 30 22
23 5 20 1 16 38
24 13 R 19 1 -19 19
25 25 R 19 2 -38 -19
26 0 19 3 51 32
27 29 R 18 2 -36 -4
28 36 18 3 54 50
29 20 R 17 2 -34 16
30 4 17 3 57 73
31 4 R 16 2 -32 41
32 0 R 16 3 -48 -7
33 35 R 16 4 -64 -71
34 35 R 16 5 -80 -151
35 24 16 6 120 -31
36 16 15 5 105 74
37 22 14 4 88 162
38 25 R 13 3 -39 123
39 30 13 4 92 215
40 29 R 12 3 -36 179
41 17 R 12 4 -48 131
42 13 R 12 5 -60 71
43 20 R 12 6 -72 -1
44 8 12 7 168 167
45 15 11 6 150 317
46 4 R 10 5 -50 267
47 13 R 10 6 -60 207
48 30 R 10 7 -70 137
49 5 R 10 8 -80 57
50 21 R 10 9 -90 -33
51 1 10 10 260 227
52 2 R 9 9 -81 146
53 9 9 10 270 416
54 4 R 8 9 -72 344
55 28 8 10 280 624
56 10 R 7 9 -63 561
57 6 7 10 290 851
58 3 6 9 270 1121
59 11 R 5 8 -40 1081
60 35 R 5 9 -45 1036


Spin 28 +50
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 23, 01:09 PM 2016
AR2 game 2 
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 0 37
2 13 36
3 8 35
4 28 34
5 6 33
6 6 R 32
7 20 32
8 3 31
9 0 R 30
10 11 30
11 0 R 29 1 -29 -29
12 10 29 2 14 -15
13 4 28 1 8 -7
14 3 R 27 1 -27 -34
15 9 27 2 18 -16
16 22 26 1 10 -6
17 25 25 1 11 5
18 25 R 24 1 -24 -19
19 16 24 2 24 5
20 12 23 1 13 18
21 13 R 22 1 -22 -4
22 0 R 22 2 -44 -48
23 35 22 3 42 -6
24 16 R 21 2 -42 -48
25 32 21 3 45 -3
26 21 20 2 32 29
27 15 19 1 17 46
28 16 R 18 1 -18 28
29 6 R 18 2 -36 -8
30 26 18 3 54 46
31 34 17 2 38 84
32 15 R 16 1 -16 68
33 12 R 16 2 -32 36
34 16 R 16 3 -48 -12
35 6 R 16 4 -64 -76
36 3 R 16 5 -80 -156
37 20 R 16 6 -96 -252
38 31 16 7 140 -112
39 2 15 6 126 14
40 27 14 5 110 124
41 28 R 13 4 -52 72
42 15 R 13 5 -65 7
43 32 R 13 6 -78 -71
44 1 13 7 161 90
45 22 R 12 6 -72 18
46 4 R 12 7 -84 -66
47 19 12 8 192 126
48 13 R 11 7 -77 49
49 16 R 11 8 -88 -39
50 31 R 11 9 -99 -138
51 16 R 11 10 -110 -248
52 9 R 11 11 -121 -369
53 35 R 11 12 -132 -501
54 16 R 11 13 -143 -644
55 22 R 11 14 -154 -798
56 9 R 11 15 -165 -963
57 6 R 11 16 -176 -1139
58 30 11 17 425 -714
59 36 10 16 416 -298
60 15 R 9 15 -135 -433

+84 for priyanka :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 23, 01:13 PM 2016
AR1 game 2
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 21 37
2 17 36
3 36 35
4 1 34
5 19 33
6 7 32
7 21 R 31
8 8 31
9 12 30
10 10 29
11 4 28 1 8 8
12 7 R 27 1 -27 -19
13 14 27 2 18 -1
14 30 26 1 10 9
15 23 25 1 11 20
16 3 24 1 12 32
17 18 23 1 13 45
18 8 R 22 1 -22 23
19 7 R 22 2 -44 -21
20 24 22 3 42 21
21 34 21 2 30 51
22 7 R 20 1 -20 31
23 10 R 20 2 -40 -9
24 0 20 3 48 39
25 18 R 19 2 -38 1
26 5 19 3 51 52
27 20 18 2 36 88
28 33 17 1 19 107
29 0 R 16 1 -16 91
30 R
31 R
32 R
33 R
34 R
35 R
36 R
37 R
38 R
39 R
40 R
41 R
42 R
43 R
44 R
45 R
46 R
47 R
48 R
49 R
50 R
51 R
52 R
53 R
54 R
55 R
56 R
57 R
58 R
59 R
60 R

+51 or take an earlier win the decision is yours
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 23, 02:03 PM 2016
Quote from: tomi20 on Jun 23, 07:55 AM 2016You talk always about reading trots, countback , avg file but all that dont make influence if you play KTF with same rules?
It only tells you when is best time to stop betting and take wins ?
Yes KTF is just bet the Non-hit after 10 spins. The rest came as the topic grew.


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 25, 11:29 AM 2016
No Game 24.06.16, you know why, the day i voted out and so did nearly 52% of the country :thumbsup:
So ITV must have felt guilty, let Jackpot247.com have 184 minutes of air time.
Enough for 2 games.
KTF +64
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 13 37
2 2 36
3 12 35
4 4 34
5 21 33
6 6 32
7 7 31
8 25 30
9 34 29
10 9 28
11 8 27 1 9 9
12 28 26 1 10 19
13 30 25 1 11 30
14 30 R 24 1 -24 6
15 31 24 2 24 30
16 5 23 1 13 43
17 8 R 22 1 -22 21
18 20 22 2 28 49
19 23 21 1 15 64
20 3 20 1 16 80
21 33 19 1 17 97
22 0 18 1 18 115
23 26 17 1 19 134
24 7 R 16 1 -16 118
25 3 R 16 2 -32 86
26 30 R 16 3 -48 38
27 34 R 16 4 -64 -26
28 9 R 16 5 -80 -106
29 31 R 16 6 -96 -202
30 35 16 7 140 -62
31 36 15 6 126 64
32 16 14 5 110 174
33 1 13 4 92 266
34 15 12 3 72 338
35 34 R 11 2 -22 316
36 12 R 11 3 -33 283
37 31 R 11 4 -44 239
38 15 R 11 5 -55 184
39 6 R 11 6 -66 118
40 13 R 11 7 -77 41
41 26 R 11 8 -88 -47
42 21 R 11 9 -99 -146
43 27 11 10 250 104
44 32 10 9 234 338
45 9 R 9 8 -72 266
46 15 R 9 9 -81 185
47 33 R 9 10 -90 95
48 24 9 11 297 392
49 1 R 8 10 -80 312
50 9 R 8 11 -88 224
51 5 R 8 12 -96 128
52 12 R 8 13 -104 24
53 18 8 14 392 416
54 7 R 7 13 -91 325
55 20 R 7 14 -98 227
56 1 R 7 15 -105 122
57 16 R 7 16 -112 10
58 24 R 7 17 -119 -109
59 9 R 7 18 -126 -235
60 25 R 7 19 -133 -368

KTF +55
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 30 37
2 2 36
3 12 35
4 13 34
5 27 33
6 31 32
7 8 31
8 3 30
9 32 29
10 14 28
11 24 27 1 9 9
12 16 26 1 10 19
13 36 25 1 11 30
14 35 24 1 12 42
15 11 23 1 13 55
16 18 22 1 14 69
17 34 21 1 15 84
18 36 R 20 1 -20 64
19 19 20 2 32 96
20 35 R 19 1 -19 77
21 36 R 19 2 -38 39
22 28 19 3 51 90
23 13 R 18 2 -36 54
24 21 18 3 54 108
25 24 R 17 2 -34 74
26 0 17 3 57 131
27 6 16 2 40 171
28 R
29 R
30 R
31 R
32 R
33 R
34 R
35 R
36 R
37 R
38 R
39 R
40 R
41 R
42 R
43 R
44 R
45 R
46 R
47 R
48 R
49 R
50 R
51 R
52 R
53 R
54 R
55 R
56 R
57 R
58 R
59 R
60 R
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tomi20 on Jun 26, 12:44 PM 2016
Are there cases when you not play after 10 numbers? (maybe you have good and bad  sequences of first 10 numbers)

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 26, 06:49 PM 2016
Only 34 spins very short program.
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 19 37
2 21 36
3 3 35
4 36 34
5 32 33
6 31 32
7 29 31
8 12 30
9 32 R 29
10 12 R 29
11 17 29 1 7 7
12 35 28 1 8 15
13 35 R 27 1 -27 -12
14 21 R 27 2 -54 -66
15 19 R 27 3 -81 -147
16 33 27 4 36 -111
17 16 26 3 30 -81
18 20 25 2 22 -59
19 11 24 1 12 -47
20 17 R 23 1 -23 -70
21 36 R 23 2 -46 -116
22 28 23 3 39 -77
23 31 R 22 2 -44 -121
24 25 22 3 42 -79
25 0 21 2 30 -49
26 18 20 1 16 -33
27 3 R 19 1 -19 -52
28 9 19 2 34 -18
29 30 18 1 18 0
30 0 R 17 1 -17 -17
31 1 17 2 38 21
32 8 16 1 20 41
33 32 R 15 1 -15 26
34 0 R 15 2 -30 -4
35 R
36 R
37 R
38 R
39 R
40 R
41 R
42 R
43 R
44 R
45 R
46 R
47 R
48 R
49 R
50 R
51 R
52 R
53 R
54 R
55 R
56 R
57 R
58 R
59 R
60 R
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 27, 01:12 PM 2016
After the vote,back to normality.
KTF +50
Spin No. Spin Repeat? Non-hit count Progression Result Bank
1 12 37
2 8 36
3 34 35
4 3 34
5 1 33
6 26 32
7 18 31
8 4 30
9 15 29
10 17 28
11 31 27 1 9 9
12 36 26 1 10 19
13 34 R 25 1 -25 -6
14 6 25 2 22 16
15 17 R 24 1 -24 -8
16 14 24 2 24 16
17 23 23 1 13 29
18 26 R 22 1 -22 7
19 19 22 2 28 35
20 30 21 1 15 50
21 12 R 20 1 -20 30
22 34 R 20 2 -40 -10
23 17 R 20 3 -60 -70
24 35 20 4 64 -6
25 18 R 19 3 -57 -63
26 29 19 4 68 5
27 23 R 18 3 -54 -49
28 4 R 18 4 -72 -121
29 29 R 18 5 -90 -211
30 26 R 18 6 -108 -319
31 1 R 18 7 -126 -445
32 5 18 8 144 -301
33 0 17 7 133 -168
34 1 R 16 6 -96 -264
35 32 16 7 140 -124
36 33 15 6 126 2
37 32 R 14 5 -70 -68
38 33 R 14 6 -84 -152
39 12 R 14 7 -98 -250
40 24 14 8 176 -74
41 14 R 13 7 -91 -165
42 15 R 13 8 -104 -269
43 1 R 13 9 -117 -386
44 19 R 13 10 -130 -516
45 35 R 13 11 -143 -659
46 19 R 13 12 -156 -815
47 9 13 13 299 -516
48 36 R 12 12 -144 -660
49 0 R 12 13 -156 -816
50 19 R 12 14 -168 -984
51 31 R 12 15 -180 -1164
52 3 R 12 16 -192 -1356
53 23 R 12 17 -204 -1560
54 0 R 12 18 -216 -1776
55 8 R 12 19 -228 -2004
56 7 12 20 480 -1524
57 28 11 19 475 -1049
58 1 R 10 18 -180 -1229
59 27 10 19 494 -735
60 23 R 9 18 -162 -897
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: phynicle on Jun 30, 09:35 AM 2016
i must have really bad luck, busted out 3 times already, twice up to 60 spins by then it was a massive draw down
playing roughly 1 session every 2 days and aiming for 40-50 units max.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 15, 04:03 AM 2016
Averages for 100 games and for 200 games
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Jul 15, 04:35 AM 2016
Thanks Notto!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Jul 28, 04:24 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Jul 15, 04:03 AM 2016
Averages for 100 games and for 200 games
I'm trying to make an average document for myself on my wheel. I wont to use your average document as basis, some questions:
1=0x
2=1x
3=?
4=?
5=?
6=?
7=?
...=?
So I do not understand what you mean with the other numbers. Can you explain some more?
- Tuddilue
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Jul 28, 10:28 AM 2016
Quote from: tuddilue on Jul 28, 04:24 AM 2016
I'm trying to make an average document for myself on my wheel. I wont to use your average document as basis, some questions:
1=0x
2=1x
3=?
4=?
5=?
6=?
7=?
...=?
So I do not understand what you mean with the other numbers. Can you explain some more?
- Tuddilue
The number is how long it will take for the unhit to hit. Now I understand it.
Thanks notto!
-Tuddilue
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Jul 28, 11:58 AM 2016
You're good!

Ask yourself something harder now....  ;D
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 30, 06:59 AM 2016
Now now nextyear  >:D
Tuddi this was played on Multi player at 10.43 God knows what version as had to re-register.

See the 3 W's,Winkels reference points, also see countback showing spins 39/40 what could be as we have to remember it is a random game?

So if going to bet the 0x's you need to remember average to come in(fcuk what the general says) and max to hit, so watching countback will show if repeats are happning how far away from their, i'll say expected position on 15 in 30 spins.

W at spin 13 shows only 1 repeat, Possibly could bet, but remember in spins 11-20 the average for 0x's is 7,+2 so i chose to watch, but there is the second repeat. Now that the 13th 0x did not hit and it averages to come in, in 2 spins you could make a decision, ain't this what roulette is about knowledge of what all 37 0x's can do in a 37 cycle, but in my case 40 spins, but it comes in, in the average 2 spins.

You can see i bet 16 on the 19th spin as we've had 7,0x's the excepted 7 in spins 11-20, lost, so rebet the 17 and up to 2 units, win.
We see it got 1 more 0x so 8,+3. Is this not go time for WTF, or did Celtic and Denz wait to see what spin 21 gives, in this case another 0x, so 9 now, But i waited, what is it ,he who waits LOL,
Now look at countback spin 21 is 18th 0x, which is well early (fast) so as Celtic would say REPEATS.
But i just watched, 2nd W shows the expected 8,0x's so this game is going as it should be, so i bet the 21,0x's, win.

With 21,0x's hit the 22nd, 0x averages to come in,in 3 spins, we can see its taken 4 spins at spin 30, its max to hit in 200 games from J247.com is 9 spins and from the last 100 games,its max is 7 spins, so you could say 8 spins, aren't we half way there, so you could decide to bet, took 6 spins ( THAT AVERAGE DOCUMENT MUST BE GOOD,LOL).

As i'd made enough units i chose to just wait untill 25 0x's had come ( and bet GzGzBEE's bet of just bet 12 numbers, but after 25 had hit on the wheel) you can see i wrote the prog out for quick reference, but it came in on spin 3.

More average from jakpot 247.com, we see 60 spins gives 30.5 0x's well 31/60 good enough.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Jul 30, 07:20 AM 2016
I understood most of this analyze!
My knowledge thrive good....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Jul 30, 08:07 AM 2016
Thanks notto for the analysis 6
-Tuddilue
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 30, 10:03 AM 2016
Good
The Multi player is a good place to practice, remember placing chips i find best to go down column 1, up 2 and back down 3, the copy of the mat to look at on your sheet.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: unknownname on Aug 03, 12:49 PM 2016
Hi there,

I am new to this forum. Since KTF caught my interest I decided that I would run a little simulation where I recreate all the conditions that Notto specified for playing KTF. I used several data sets to confirm my outcomes. I am most willing to share my results with you guys.

Unfortunately, KTF was not able to provide a positive return on my balance sheet. I experimented with raising and lowering the maximum amount that I was going to bid before leaving in combination with the maximum returns in units I could get from a game. But unfortunately in the long term it was always a loser.

You can check my excel sheet and you can copy paste your spins in it to see that KTF will not work in the long term.

Notto if you think that I did not incorporate the KTF rules appropriately I am willing to change my formula's in order to make it as you wish.

As for now, I will not invest any money in this system given that it will not provide a positive return on my investment for the long term.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: unknownname on Aug 03, 12:50 PM 2016
Hi there,

I am new to this forum. Since KTF caught my interest I decided that I would run a little simulation where I recreate all the conditions that Notto specified for playing KTF. I used several data sets to confirm my outcomes. I am most willing to share my results with you guys.

Unfortunately KTF was not able to provide a positive return on my balance sheet. I experimented with raising and lowering the max amount that I was going to bid before leaving in combination with the maximum returns in units I could get from a game. But unfortunately in the long term it was always a loser.

You can check my excel sheet and you can copy paste your spins in it to see that KTF will not work in the long term.

Notto if you think that I did not incorporate the KTF rules appropriately I am willing to change my formula's in order to make it as you wish.

As for now, I will not invest any money in this system given that it will not provide a positive return on my investment for the long term.

All the data sets i got from: h t t p://w w w . r o u l e t t e 3 0 . c o m / 2 0 1 4 / 1 1 / f r e e - s pi n s - d o wn l o a d . h t m l

Please find the excel sheet in the download link I provided: link:s://upload.af/6eku9o5tn99l
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: denzie on Aug 16, 04:55 AM 2016
Notto....ive got 7repeaters max in all my sessions......how about you ?

And if 20 non hits as first 20spins ...max 4 spins till a repeater....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Aug 16, 06:29 PM 2016
Quote from: denzie on Aug 16, 04:55 AM 2016Notto....ive got 7repeaters max in all my sessions......how about you ?
Hi Den up to 19th non-hit is max 7, the 20th goes max 10, but only once for airball, RNG goes more
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Aug 20, 06:49 AM 2016
This should be in WTF, since KTF started WTF this will help in watching the trot.
The sheet below is Multiplayer roulette, personally find the numbers are too good to be true.

You know on average you get 15,0x's in spins 11-40, so using 2 of the boxes for recording 0x and repeat we can see the trot of the 15/15. This sheet shows the game ended 15,0x and 15 repeat, you see the bank roll start and finish red circle.

Sheet a bit messy but its fast on there as this is where the big dogs play  :lol:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Aug 20, 10:44 AM 2016
Oh a smite must have upset one of the big dogs  :lol:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Aug 20, 10:58 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Aug 20, 10:44 AM 2016
Oh a smite must have upset one of the big dogs  :lol:

It was mr j

All 3 of mine were the general

Nuff said.

Why that post deserved a smite i dont know..you posted a sheet. Used the forum what its for

Thats what we call haters notto
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Aug 20, 01:08 PM 2016
Quote from: NextYear on Jul 30, 07:20 AM 2016
I understood most of this analyze!
My knowledge thrive good....

I got it

:twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 25, 08:10 AM 2016
Not for the likes of Mr J,General and who cares anyway, here is 300 games of Jackpot247.com averages.
The part of interest is in 300 sheet, rows 353 to 361.
Shows average to hit and max to hit in 300,200 and 100 games, column AI on each sheet shows the average for spins 11-40.

Theres a load of other shit on the sheets, if you can see, all well and good.

Whether it helps any one with the trot i do not care as its what i like to know.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Oct 25, 02:19 PM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Oct 25, 08:10 AM 2016
Not for the likes of Mr J,General and who cares anyway, here is 300 games of Jackpot247.com averages.
The part of interest is in 300 sheet, rows 353 to 361.
Shows average to hit and max to hit in 300,200 and 100 games, column AI on each sheet shows the average for spins 11-40.

Theres a load of other shit on the sheets, if you can see, all well and good.

Whether it helps any one with the trot i do not care as its what i like to know.
Thanks notto for the great work, impressive!
- Tuddilue
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 03, 07:21 AM 2016
Some nice simple ideas been posted lately.
But this is the simplest to me, why i come up with it, as a member a few years ago said "KISS"

so here is 1st 60 spins from Mort 3.12_ 1-1    here it would seem 0x's are doing what we want


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2016/12/03/temp_434675.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/TojK)

Now set 2 from today  if same wheel and 5 mins break we could start again, but like we have shown better to go to another table, be in a completely new stream of #'s, but we don't know if Mort is on a new table or the same? So whats happening repeats are happening ( so you are going to have to KEEP THE FAITH) spin 47 you can hear old Bon Jon jovi singing KEEP THE FAITH +181 units for both games


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2016/12/03/temp_988085.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/TKFB)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 06, 07:56 AM 2016
Well by now you should know i'm seriously a non-hit player.
Another 60 days will update the averages.

Now everyone is always saying flat bet, so i'm doing the 100 new games with flat bet for 15,0x's spins 11-40 or 0x's by 40th spin, all spins and after the 25th 0x has hit.

At the moment  it's  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup: to all 3 scenarios
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Dec 06, 08:02 AM 2016
So betting non hits after 10 spins is still proving to be good for you?

I am glad to hear it

When I get back to the casino I will want to play around on airball

How many sessions now? Losses?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Dec 06, 08:34 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 06, 07:56 AM 2016
Well by now you should know i'm seriously a non-hit player.
Another 60 days will update the averages.

Now everyone is always saying flat bet, so i'm doing the 100 new games with flat bet for 15,0x's spins 11-40 or 0x's by 40th spin, all spins and after the 25th 0x has hit.

At the moment  it's  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup: to all 3 scenarios

Thats nice Notto!
Can you explain a little more around the different scenarios with flat bet?
1.  for 15,0x's spins 11-40
2. 0x's by 40th spin, all spins
3. after the 25th 0x has hit

I mean do you start after spin 10 on all the three scenarios?
Do you play for a stop win or stop loss?
So some more information if you have around the different three? Rules for the plays and so on...
- Tuddilue
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 06, 09:50 AM 2016
So its 10/10, 15th 0x came on spin 38, so flat bet cost £124,75 for .25p units, the 15 wins @£9= 135, +10.25
Now if you was to carry on flat bet all spins 58 in total cost £170.75 and 21,0x's =£189, +£18.25
After the 25th 0x came, cost flat bet £46, the 6,0x's =£54, =+8


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2016/12/06/temp_710614.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/Fiqi)
KTF +55


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2016/12/06/temp_513727.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/FgUA)

Learn 0x's, read GUT, Ross
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Dec 06, 03:25 PM 2016
Ok so you play these ones:
1.  for 15,0x's spins 11-40 -> Until you have 15 0x hit
2. 0x's by 40th spin, all spins -> All 0x up to spin 40th
3. after the 25th 0x has hit -> Starts play 0x after 25th 0x has hit.

Questions:
* Nr 3, when do you stop playing that? The other ones has clear stops.
* Win goal? Or just plus?

- Tuddilue
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 06, 06:39 PM 2016
1. What we know is spins 11-40 the average is 15.7/15.8 there a bouts, so instead of round up we just have 15, so it could go L,W,L,W, to spin 40, so half of the 30 are our 0x’s. Sometimes they come fast, let’s say spin 31 the 15,0x’s have come, so you could stop, hopefully in plus. But there are times they arrive late, thus here would be a minus, at spin 40.
2. The option is to carry on using all spins.
Of the 2, 1. Has been in minus most of the 39 games, but now is in plus. 2, has been swaying both ways +/-, but now is in a good plus.
3. A 3rd option, wait for the 25th 0x, now flat bet, been positive for most of the 39 games.
Now what we are aiming for is 100 games, then we can see if there’s a positive to any of the three options.  At the moment let’s use option 3,


after 25th

0
20.75
29.75




18.75
-72
10
7
22.25



-26.5
14.5
4.25
3
36.25
22.75
-6
-11
0
-3.5
16.75
2
3
-4
7.75
-27.75
51
35



-20.25

12.25
53
57
-8.75
-3.25
0.5
16.5
4.75
8
20.25
-2.5
9.25

300.75

So you see 39 games from jackpot247, +300.75, if this was the sum for the 100 games, it would average to £ 3.00 a game using the .25p unit, tiny but for the £1.00 unit it would be £12.00


40 spins     or   1st 15 non-hit
   
1.25   
22.5   
42   
   
   
   
   
-15.75   
-54   
31.5   
-0.5   
16.75   
   
   
   
-21.5   
14.25   
-39.75   
27.5   
15.75   
26.25   
-29.5   
-26   
14.75   
3.25   
9.75   
32.75   
-18.5   
2.25   
-46.5   
37   
-38.5   
40.5   
   
   
   
-33   
   
10   
29   
21.75   
35.75   
-31.25   
21.25   
8.5   
30.5   
10.25   
-35.75   
-10.5   
-22.25   
   
81.75   

Now here averages £2 a game for the 39 games, or £8 for a £1 unit per game.
So what we hope to get is the average win for the 100 games on each option,  now let’s give a hypothetical figure for the 100 games on 40 or 1st 15,  £150.00 for 25.p unit (why .25p, it’s what have to use on FOBT). If could use £1 unit average game would be £6.
Now you have a figure to use when flat betting, if you know that after another 100 games you could be near to the £6 average, so when you start at spin 11 and you win the 1st bet stop, or as soon as +£6 stop,wait for the stream to pass or go to another wheel.

If at B+M you can use a bigger unit like the top doggs >:D

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 06, 06:40 PM 2016
option 3
When to stop, unknown for now, should know in 60 days
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 06, 06:59 PM 2016
Whats the problem with going for 0x's, its when starting at spin 11, there would be too many numbers for top dog Mr J. But at 39 games,early days, you can see they are in plus.
The problem to most is at the moment we are saying an average of £6 per game from (39 games not the 100 ) not big enough profit, but when the 0x's are so heavy and favour a win, you should be gone in a few spins from spin 11.
I could use a £1 unit after we get to 100 games and know the true figure to use for the stop, and the FOBT can spin every 20 seconds, so if the average is £6 or even £10 per game and god for bid if had to use 60 spins, it would only take about 30 minutes, so 16 games would be possible as the shops are open from 8am to 22pm plenty of time,
for those interested heres all spins for the 39 games, remember its based on .25p unit, and all spins is usually 60 spins


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2016/12/06/temp_247758.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/FjXs)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 07, 04:11 AM 2016
Tuddilue and Nextyear
So from the early figures of the 39 games, we can see that it's better to flatbet all spins against 1st15 or 40 spins.
The surprise for me is the flat bet after 25,0x's
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: tuddilue on Dec 07, 07:16 AM 2016
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 07, 04:11 AM 2016
Tuddilue and Nextyear
So from the early figures of the 39 games, we can see that it's better to flatbet all spins against 1st15 or 40 spins.
The surprise for me is the flat bet after 25,0x's

Yes the 0x is hard to play. The reason is the recovery. Its so hard with so big bets. We also know that the repeaters always come. So that is the trick how to recover.

I think with flat bet you also must set a lower win goal. As you also say in you comments. If we talks units I should aim for around 10 units and the do a jump.

I like the idea of small wins and when you loose a bet or two you will recover that quite easy.

Yes will be interesting to see how it goes in 100 games with these 1,2,3 options.

Good luck!
- Tuddilue
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 01, 05:40 AM 2017
Using Mortagons #'s, theres 29'700 spins, divide by 60 spins, priyanka's tester, gives 495 games of 60 spins.
Now if you are a KTF'er, whats your actual stop for a win?
As this is a new high 4'433, you could divide that by the 495 games played, this would give a value 8.95 per game.

So round up to £9.
Here's the ?

The biggest score for spins 1-10 is 9/10, 1 repeat, this means we have to start with 28 non-hits, so if win 1st spin which from the 362 games of Jackpot 247 is 81% of the games, would this be good enough for you to stop. Or as soon as +9 units the average for the 495 mortagon games.

What's your stop win value? The 50/+50 is a value thats obtainable, but would the lower value of +9 be better as smaller wins can make big winners.

For a comparison, do the best football teams all ways win with 5,6 +goals, no they mainly win +1
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrG on Jan 07, 12:20 PM 2017
Quote from: nottophammer on Jun 23, 04:55 AM 2016
The only decision is what profit you want  to take.
I only post now on games where KTF has to win 50/+50 for a very respected member called Priyanka, during the posts it was suggested to lower the win target, but he/she said is it not to win 50/+50, so thats what i play it for now using numbers from Jackpot 247.com, airball, its still +7'000 after 176 games.

Hi Notto, I looked at the document attached to your quoted post. There is written: "but you now minus the units back to 1 unit, if the 26 non-hit lost again, then you would +1 the units to 3 on the 26 remaining non-hit numbers."

I'm wondering if there shouldn't be written +1 the units to 2 instead of 3? I understood because you won, the bet was lowered to 1. Then you lose so you should raise the bet by 1 so the bet should be 2 units, not 3 units, no?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 07, 02:08 PM 2017
 
Collect 10 spins, let’s assume no repeat, so the bet is the remaining 27 non-hit numbers, if win, scrub from your chart of the mat.Now just bet the remaining 26 non-hit numbers, if it’s repeat of the numbers that have hit once, you will re-bet and +1 the units to 2 units. If the 26th non-hit wins, scrub the winning non-hit from your chart of the mat and now bet the remaining 25 non-hit numbers, But if the 26th non-hit lost again, then you would +1 the units to 3 on the 26 remaining non-hit numbers.
Quote from: MrG on Jan 07, 12:20 PM 2017Hi Notto, I looked at the document attached to your quoted post. There is written: "but you now minus the units back to 1 unit, if the 26 non-hit lost again, then you would +1 the units to 3 on the 26 remaining non-hit numbers."

I'm wondering if there shouldn't be written +1 the units to 2 instead of 3? I understood because you won, the bet was lowered to 1. Then you lose so you should raise the bet by 1 so the bet should be 2 units, not 3 units, no?
Are you a proofreader? I think you understand the concept of +1/-1
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: MrG on Jan 07, 06:17 PM 2017
Quote from: nottophammer on Jan 07, 02:08 PM 2017
Are you a proofreader? I think you understand the concept of +1/-1

No, I'm not proofreader. I thought I understand +1/-1, but seems I don't.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 07, 06:39 PM 2017
Look at reply 1412, there you'll see priyank's tester.
At spin 10 theres no repeats, so the bet starts at 1 unit.
At spin 20 it's still 1 unit.
Spin 21 is for 1 unit and it's a loss.
Now spin 22 is 2 units because of the loss, and upto spin 25 it has been +1, so at spin 25 it's +5, which wins. Now we minus 1 unit to 4 units for spin 26 and lose, as lose you now +1 unit again.

Now, can you see on the image posted
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 12, 09:02 AM 2017
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/01/12/temp_564894.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/MYSH)

1st time only 6 non-hit in 1st 10 spins, 373 games
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: NextYear on Jan 12, 10:03 AM 2017
Next step = 5!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 12, 10:05 AM 2017
Quote from: NextYear on Jan 12, 10:03 AM 2017
Next step = 5!

could happen tomorrow get just 5 but dont hold your breath >:D
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jan 18, 07:11 AM 2017
I thought of a little twist to this after you get your 10 spins bet the remaining numbers and stay on them with +1 -1 until profit then stop re track and do it again

Only difference from the original keep the faith is not crossing off numbers just stay on them until profit
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jan 18, 08:40 AM 2017
So let's say after 10 spins they were all unique and we have 27 non hits left

Bet those 27 with +1 -1 until ANY profit. Always betting those numbers without crossing any off

Then stop and do it again. Maybe waiting a few spins to let some new numbers roll in

Obviously at a live wheel this would look silly. So my recommendation would be stadium roulette. Real live dealer where you bet on the screen.

(link:://:.trbimg.com/img-55e7354d/turbine/mc-bethlehem-sands-casino-stadium-20150902)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jan 18, 08:49 AM 2017
2 hours from me

Can't wait to go

Low limits. And you have peace of mind that it's not rigged as it's live dealer standing in center


Play as you wish without hearing shit from other players or dealer. Sit out spins if you want as well
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 15, 06:09 AM 2017
Many pages back a member, he or she must be the wisest among us, said          " I'm going to take the 1st profit"  they must be loaded by now.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Priyanka on Mar 16, 03:37 PM 2017
Notto - A question for you. I have been running the KTF tracker with some random numbers and always find that there is a big "negative" at some point or the other. Is that the same thing you have experienced as well? The negative could be well after you have taken a profit like 50 or 40 or something and run away, but I always see some big negatives in the region of -1000s before 111 spins.

Have you seen this as well?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 16, 03:53 PM 2017
Yes, but like that person said so many replies back just take the 1st profit, i'm slowly going thru 20000 real wheel spins and see what you say, but also the 1st profit is good, just like flat bet remaining 8 non-hit and take the 1st profit, not go for a bigger win, little profits grow to big profit.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 30, 08:31 AM 2017
Many replies back i showed how avg in spins 11-40 is 15 non-hit in those 30 spins.
DoctorSudoku, if you look at the reply 12  in whats left, theres the avg's.

Morts numbers for today shows these avg's perfectly. (link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/07/30/temp_920880.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/BQ8V) theres 8/10, so 15,0x's to come in 11-40. perfect 23,0x's.
Now 23,0x's have come and avg for the 60 spins is 30.5,0x's, so if you agree 30 come on avg in 60 spins, you'll expect 7 more numbers to come, well there they are. ACCURATE or what  :thumbsup:


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/07/30/temp_457395.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/B1lt)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 30, 08:40 AM 2017
Quote from: Priyanka on Mar 16, 03:37 PM 2017
Notto - A question for you. I have been running the KTF tracker with some random numbers and always find that there is a big "negative" at some point or the other. Is that the same thing you have experienced as well? The negative could be well after you have taken a profit like 50 or 40 or something and run away, but I always see some big negatives in the region of -1000s before 111 spins.

Have you seen this as well?

Yes Priyanka, and like you, i see plenty of places to jump with a profit.
Look at morts #'s just posted, if you Keep The Faith, then spin 50,+37, or spin 60, +671
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Aug 04, 01:03 PM 2017
So those 6 games on MPR, here is the result just betting the non-hit and taking the 50 units.
What we have is the larger group starting, those 37 non-hit numbers. In blue is the win, but you decide where you stop.

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/08/04/temp_295640.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/BBbl)


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/08/04/temp_331137.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/BIPc)
this game the 61st spin is the non-hit


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/08/04/temp_904952.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/Bmta)


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/08/04/temp_445895.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/Br3F)


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/08/04/temp_618512.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/B44i)


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/08/04/temp_999411.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/B7yA)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Aug 05, 05:06 AM 2017
Quote from: winkel on May 28, 01:12 PM 2015
Hi nottop,

thats what I´ve always told: watch the crossings and watch what ist going on. If a crossing comes up and you don´t trust it, the next idea is to bet the other chance.

I never had a chance to explain this to this point, because of too many enemies. But as you found by yourself: This ist the chance to bet nearly every spin, if you can detect, what is going on.

BUT: You have to be aware: There is no automatism in it. You can be wrong, Your ability to make the right decisions might be missing. So learn to stop the game. Learn to jump to another sequence and so on.

br
winkel
So i've been learning even before this date, but this man helped 100% with his GUT topic, look in @Turbo years of study to know the avg, but the best thing i've found is to use countback to watch the trot.

Good luck.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 02, 06:23 AM 2017
Valvo
Here is the game from J247 today. As said its no thought to this method, you just bet the remaining non-hit after spin 10 with +1/-1.
I said you could win 50/+50 and this got set in stone, so Priyanka gave a tracker, Way back in the replies someone said just take 1st profit, yes, but its up to the individual to play how they want.

So the checkpoints. in spins 11-40 we expect to see 15.8 non-hit, so at check 31-40 it could read 25, meaning 15 came, but you see its 23, -2, only 13 came.
Now spin 30 you see just betting with +1/-1 +76, so reset, go to another wheel or start a new 10 spins, spin 31 can be spin 1.

Spin 60 usually see 30.5 non-hit have come



(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/02/temp_369149.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/4iXZ)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 02, 06:26 AM 2017
spin 18  :thumbsup:

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/02/temp_794343.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/4PiD)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 02, 06:32 AM 2017
here are the spins + an extra 19 but its won so why use these best to go to another stream of #'s.
Valv i'll post later a sheet showing countback, of on Ma-in-law run, chemo
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/02/temp_415844.jpg) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/4j2l)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 02, 05:05 PM 2017
Valvo.
Here is countback showing the trot. As long as you accept 15.8 is avg for spins 11-40, then you mark out like this. Now if you look at spin 37, LOTT says 24 could show, countback shows this as well


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/02/temp_931281.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/4cYc)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 02, 05:18 PM 2017
Val as said up to the 19th non-hit they avg to hit in 2 spins, well perfect, if you was just watching, the only part you need to know is the max to hit, there is somewhere an avg document showing there max to hit.
We're only +1 on countback so avg trot.
The orange at spin 15 is the repeat in the group of 10 spins, a 76% chance of a repeat in 10 spins, so spin 11 is a win for the 10 you'd be betting in 1-10. Spins 11-20 theres the repeat #22



(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/02/temp_479815.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/4qra)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 02, 05:24 PM 2017
does it need an explanation


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/02/temp_585765.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/4HnF)

Armatage shanks, Turbo would like the #12
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 02, 05:40 PM 2017
Again Turbo would love it #29
Upto the 26th non-hit avg to hit in 3 spins, so we see the 22nd has missed its avg to hit, but comes on time. (link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/02/temp_554959.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/4kpA) now the 24th has a max of 11spins to hit, so its missed its avg of 3 spins, how many spins could you bet 14 #'s on the FOBT could bet for 7spins and that would be max bet, so you've waited 3 spins start to bet comes in 4 spins.

Now at spin 60 avg for non-hit is 30.5 so lets see



(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/02/temp_598131.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/4ZEi)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 02, 05:46 PM 2017
So its not that hard to win. All groups of 10 spins got the repeat the #9



(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/02/temp_496018.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/4o8s)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 02, 05:53 PM 2017
quick one Morts today just betting non-hit, spin 23,+57, so reset, do what ever you'd do,


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/02/temp_201142.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/4Ke7)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ArmitageShanks on Oct 03, 05:24 AM 2017
Quote from: nottophammer on Oct 02, 05:24 PM 2017Armatage shanks, Turbo would like the #12

Yes indeed repeats do well. Won a fair bit playing your unhit after 10 spins recently flatbetting. On a loss just waited for another 10. Had a streak of 10 wins.
Where can i find the avg document showing the max to hit?
Have you ever looked at splits so your betting on hit / unhit from the start, do you know their average to hit in a certain amount of spins?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 03, 05:50 AM 2017


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/03/temp_863284.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/4yiy)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ArmitageShanks on Oct 03, 05:53 AM 2017
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 03, 05:55 AM 2017
very old FOBT


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/03/temp_506234.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/752L)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ArmitageShanks on Oct 03, 06:08 AM 2017
The max to hit?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 03, 06:42 AM 2017
Quote from: ArmitageShanks on Oct 03, 06:08 AM 2017
The max to hit?

ok say 13th is in how many could the 14th take to hit, what is its max spin, 7 spins, 6 repeats win on 7th. so you know its avg over the 628 games is 2 spins, how many times can you bet 24#'s, so the decision is how long are you prepared to wait, REMEMBER Winkel said if unsure don't bet, don't bet not costing. He who waits.
Yesterday at w.hill oakwood +80 units just watching the trot, locals, telling me as this # is in he'd bet such and such, yeah ok
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 03, 06:53 AM 2017
ArmitageShanks you'll need to click to enlarge.
See the red that when it went max 7 spins, 313 games ago,  I dont know when it might go 8 after all aren't we told THE WHEEL HAS NO MEMMORY, EACH SPIN IS INDEPENDENT, BOLLOX IS IT.

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/03/temp_900669.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/72np)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 03, 07:02 AM 2017
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/03/temp_800520.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/7FpH)

should have posted here not 5 methods 14th 0x 1 spin known max 7spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 03, 07:04 AM 2017
J247 today
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/03/temp_389371.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/7O8d)
14th 0x 1 spin known max 7 spins 313 days ago
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ArmitageShanks on Oct 03, 07:11 AM 2017
So 13 - 14 avg. 2 avg longest 7
Play for the avg with right MM or wait then bet?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 03, 07:33 AM 2017
Now you need the record sheet and write down countback, to see if 0x's are fast, slow or average, GUT knowledge whats reference point 13 then 25 and 37, you now know avg to hit for 0x's up to 19 th is on avg 2 spins, 2 years worth of airball data gives max 7 for 14th, so you'll have to make the decision, one can only give info, how you use is down to you, but 313 games back J247 14th went max 7, is that its max, when will it go 8 or even 9
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: ArmitageShanks on Oct 03, 08:39 AM 2017
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 03, 09:06 AM 2017
shanks a little bit more for example 14th non-hit. So you can see how many times hit 1st spin and up to the max of 7.
Now if you go back to the reply where the red square marks max 7, 10/11/16, when did it go to 6th spin, 2/1/17, so the max 7 is already known, so you should be basing the decision on this known info.

So if you can bet 24#'s 24 as 13th has come for 5 spins you'd have lost twice, if you waited for it to miss twice and can bet for 5 spins you'd not have lost, since the 10/11/16


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2017/10/03/temp_473154.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/7elU)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 03, 09:09 AM 2017
Chat over the last few posts is not KTF, KTF is just start betting remaining non-hit from spin 11 with +1/-1, the above is waiting ,watching how the starting 37#'s come.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 13, 10:00 AM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/03/13/temp_643837.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/Gu170)

Dr sir anyone KFC, still quicker than TURBO repeats, Does your best mate DUH like it, KFC
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Mar 13, 10:02 AM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 13, 10:00 AM 2018


Dr sir anyone KFC, still quicker than TURBO repeats, Does your best mate DUH like it, KFC


(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/FM3GCSdvXgCMU/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 13, 02:36 PM 2018
See old Sir dickhead didn't take long on GF, thought it was Steve quoting  :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh well suppose he's going looking for a bias wheel, TosssssssssssssssssssssseR
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 25, 06:31 AM 2018
Michael, can you see how the non-hit flow, do whats expected of them, being the larger group.
So forget the brain dead over GF, how can you see the TROT of the non-hit?

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/03/25/temp_704010.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GhWv1)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 25, 06:37 AM 2018
Well heres how, sheet with blocks of 10's, write in countback.
Better if you know averages of non-hit, something need to learn

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/03/25/temp_201036.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GhM95)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Mar 29, 07:23 AM 2018
Notto,

How do the first 10 spins influence your game?  Do you prefer when they show no repeater, or 2 and more, or is it scheiss egal?  Do you ever pospone a start because of the 10 spins?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 29, 10:08 AM 2018
BBB
How do the first 10 spins influence your game?

Yes if 10/10, KTF is just go, but i now just watch something that Ken aka Mr J and his stupid sidekick make out that is not there, so disregard what they say, i just watch the trot of spins 11-40

Not going to detail i just watch how the non-hit are hitting and make decisions on whether to bet for a repeat or non-hit using average, as said disregard the 2 above
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Mar 29, 10:28 AM 2018
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 29, 10:42 AM 2018
tomorrow more data for spins 11-40, where the game is played.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jekhb76 on Mar 31, 01:00 PM 2018
Maybe thinking wrong here, so please correct me if i'm wrong.
But isn't it better to Always stop at spin 11 when we have a profit of let's say +8 and then start from scratch recording the last 10 spins with a Max of 1 repeater?
And only continue when we lost the First spin and then continue until in First profit and then retrack last 10 spins again?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 31, 03:13 PM 2018
Quote from: jekhb76 on Mar 31, 01:00 PM 2018
Maybe thinking wrong here, so please correct me if i'm wrong.
But isn't it better to Always stop at spin 11 when we have a profit of let's say +8 and then start from scratch recording the last 10 spins with a Max of 1 repeater?
And only continue when we lost the First spin and then continue until in First profit and then retrack last 10 spins again?
Ed you are not wrong on 1st profit, many small wins makes for a bigger BR.
Yes if you take 1st profit say spin 14, see out the 10 spins, then record these 10 spins on 2nd block of spins and track the two games
In the Betting shop (bookies) on that sheet i track the spins giving 3 games, on the 1st game coming down 31-40 repeats should be better option, in the 2nd  game 10 spins behind you can look to countback and make a decision to bet for either repeat or non-hit, look to see how games are doing to the avg 15 in spins 11-40,


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/03/31/temp_172028.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GkM4i)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jekhb76 on Mar 31, 03:41 PM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Mar 31, 03:13 PM 2018
Ed you are not wrong on 1st profit, many small wins makes for a bigger BR.
Yes if you take 1st profit say spin 14, see out the 10 spins, then record these 10 spins on 2nd block of spins and track the two games
In the Betting shop (bookies) on that sheet i track the spins giving 3 games, on the 1st game coming down 31-40 repeats should be better option, in the 2nd  game 10 spins behind you can look to countback and make a decision to bet for either repeat or non-hit, look to see how games are doing to the avg 15 in spins 11-40,


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/03/31/temp_172028.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GkM4i)
Yes, understand thnx.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jekhb76 on Mar 31, 03:45 PM 2018
It is a very Nice System with great profit potential, but the one problem Always remains and that is the betselection. :sad2: like i said before i played KTF in a real bm last week and they weren't Happy with it, neither were i. I was the only one on the Table so i got An engrement that the chips were left on the Table unless i would say that they had to be removed. But on normal gameplay with More People it is not duable to play this on the Table! When in a progression and you need to jump Back and forth +1 -1 man, your head Will Blow. So many chips off and on everytime, pfff
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Mar 31, 04:25 PM 2018
In B+M has to be busy, but i still use touchscreen there as we're in the tech world, so rebet option, remove last bet function, its all there.
But i play 99% on rng touchscreen in the BOOKIES


(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/03/31/temp_483469.jpg) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/Gk3u7)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 03, 05:59 AM 2018
What the larger group did and should do. Mort's #'s today

Roulette ghost Luck of the Irish 

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/03/temp_262968.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GvEYF)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jekhb76 on Apr 03, 08:41 AM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 03, 05:59 AM 2018
What the larger group did and should do. Mort's #'s today

Roulette ghost Luck of the Irish 

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/03/temp_262968.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GvEYF)
Always Nice to See that there are so many sessions where you'll Have 8 or 9 units profit on First spin!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 03, 11:45 AM 2018
Quote from: jekhb76 on Apr 03, 08:41 AM 2018
Always Nice to See that there are so many sessions where you'll Have 8 or 9 units profit on First spin!

Yes Eddy, it's because only 10 spins in and the larger group is still there, Winkels Gut shows how the 0x's come, look at his reference points, GUT according to 2 floating members is a waste  of time, little did they learn from it then.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 03, 12:15 PM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/03/temp_278726.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GvjeZ)

a quick 10 games on R-Sim thats designed to let us win

Used the +1/-1 taking 1st profit

It's up to you what progression you use, or how you decide when to bet and whether a repeat would be the better option should you just watch (ROTT)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 03, 12:37 PM 2018
Perhaps this might help some.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/03/temp_450067.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/Gvk4F)

The 0x's (non-hit) up to 19th, whats your take ? Forget the correct math roundup/down  is it 1 spin or 2 spin ?

When you look at 0x; 6, 1 spin, give some thought to Luck of the Irish data in Colbster topic Are there really 37 possible outcomes?  How many 0x's come as unique, consecutive? taking 1 spin
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 03, 01:51 PM 2018
Another 10 games

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/03/temp_747923.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/Gvnus)

I might do another 10 later
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jekhb76 on Apr 03, 02:01 PM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 03, 12:37 PM 2018
Perhaps this might help some.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/03/temp_450067.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/Gvk4F)

The 0x's (non-hit) up to 19th, whats your take ? Forget the correct math roundup/down  is it 1 spin or 2 spin ?

When you look at 0x; 6, 1 spin, give some thought to Luck of the Irish data in Colbster topic Are there really 37 possible outcomes?  How many 0x's come as unique, consecutive? taking 1 spin
I want to thank you Notto for All your posting, Time and explaining this method to us. For everybody that is still not certain about this method, i can Tell you this; THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A MOMENT THAT YOU ARE IN PROFIT. AS SOON AS YOU HAVE A NEW BANKROLL HIGH, STOP AND RESTART. IF YOU DO THIS THEN I WON'T SEE TGIS LOOSE FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.
thanks again.
I can't play it live, but that doesn't Mean you can't also.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jekhb76 on Apr 03, 03:21 PM 2018
Notto,
Do you remember what your biggest drawdown was/is until First profit was reached since you Have played KTF?

My testing so far resulted in 451 units before a First profit was reached. This was on a 9th progression and was on spin 47! But this sure isn't the biggest drawdown you've encounterd since you starterd this? I only Mean First profit, not the +50 unit win goal.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 04:11 AM 2018
Ed
was on R-Sim, left and computer went funny, Daughter been sorting.

Biggest DD untill 1st profit, the only way to see is the old daily games of Morts' that i kept, off 270 games theres only 3 games where no profit

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/04/temp_267270.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GKC3c)

As you see looking at the green wow does your eyes,
Here there is a profit, but who'd be this far in
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jekhb76 on Apr 04, 04:23 AM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 04, 04:11 AM 2018
Ed
was on R-Sim, left and computer went funny, Daughter been sorting.

Biggest DD untill 1st profit, the only way to see is the old daily games of Morts' that i kept, off 270 games theres only 3 games where no profit

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/04/temp_267270.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GKC3c)

As you see looking at the green wow does your eyes,
Here there is a profit, but who'd be this far in
Spin 59 +89.
So with our understanding. So far up till now -1006 is the deepest drawdown?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bettingking on Apr 04, 04:47 AM 2018
Yes it can be an issue if you get off to a bad start but always rebounds nicely. Take first profit and dont get greedy. I have been using it for a few years and most i have been in drawdown is 1,600 units and would have stopped at 2,000 as this is still a long back from the dead.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 04:51 AM 2018
No Ed
3 times a complete wipeout like this, but thats 3 out of 270

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/04/temp_298929.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GKuWi)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 04:58 AM 2018
today from Mort, look at checkpoints, so on your sheet you should know how to place countback, countback would show this is fast, so if you was playing this, a few spins in you'd see non-hit have to slow, so repeats are heres that word (DUE) do you see this General as your forum must be boring as you're here

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/04/temp_949732.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GKIks)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: atlantis on Apr 04, 05:03 AM 2018
Yes- but according to The General:

Quote
The KTF is as flawed and worthless as the GUT.  Both will fade away, only to be reinvented by the next crop of online kids, a year or two from now.


:)
A.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 05:14 AM 2018
Now snowman or General, or who ever you are. You've collected the 1st 10, now you've placed countback the average 15 that show in spins 11-40

So if you had'nt wrecked GUT, the second stage would have been shown, so as the great Winkel shows at reference 13, 2 repeats should be here, countback is showing the non-hit are fast to their expected position, so look to BR, if bet next spin and lost would still have a profit, but you know a repeat is coming, you have to make a decision one way or the other, Bet for another non-hit or bet for a repeat, or just watch your choice

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/04/temp_297622.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GKrdQ)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 05:16 AM 2018
Quote from: atlantis on Apr 04, 05:03 AM 2018The KTF is as flawed and worthless as the GUT.  Both will fade away, only to be reinvented by the next crop of online kids, a year or two from now.

It'll take him 2 years to find a bias wheel if he's lucky ;)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 12:24 PM 2018
Said i might play another ten, hold your breath general
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 12:26 PM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/04/temp_115648.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/GKjBH)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 04, 12:27 PM 2018
Snowy now go back to GF and leave us serious gamblers alone
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Nimo on Apr 05, 11:55 AM 2018
Just finished reading all 100 pages of this thread.  Interesting stuff.  Two years of posts and from what I can see its still profitable.  I tried it, taking first profit with a larger unit size, but keeping the original rules of a 400 unit bank.  I play until 1st profit, but I keep spinning until all 37 numbers have shown before I start a new session.  Usually around 120-150 spins.  Have not lost a single session, or had a larger drawn down than 220 units in 77 sessions. 

Thank you Notto for posting it, and keeping all the records. 

For those that don't believe or understand, read the entire thread. 
" those that say it can't be done, should get out of the way of those that are doing it"
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 05, 12:50 PM 2018
Nimo

Thank you,  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: vladir on Apr 06, 06:19 AM 2018
I read only about 30 pages of this thread yet. Has anyone tried progression +2/-1  instead of +1/-1 ? Some of the RFH would have not been RFH with it... Trade off is that you need a bigger BR and a bust will cost more...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jekhb76 on Apr 06, 06:40 AM 2018
Quote from: vladir on Apr 06, 06:19 AM 2018
I read only about 30 pages of this thread yet. Has anyone tried progression +2/-1  instead of +1/-1 ? Some of the RFH would have not been RFH with it... Trade off is that you need a bigger BR and a bust will cost more...
Will give it a go, thanks.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 06, 07:01 AM 2018
Quote from: vladir on Apr 06, 06:19 AM 2018
I read only about 30 pages of this thread yet. Has anyone tried progression +2/-1  instead of +1/-1 ? Some of the RFH would have not been RFH with it... Trade off is that you need a bigger BR and a bust will cost more...
Vladir
It's been going quite sometime this topic, yes the loss does happen, but before i opened the topic, everytime i played and recorded the games, which are played on RNG, UK bookies.
Every time i lost i went back over the game, then changed the way i'd bet, every time i changed it would win for weeks and then boom a loss, so back to see if it could be bet different, come up with a better way and of we go, walk in the shop and win and win, then a loss.

So in the end the +1/-1 came out best.

So anybody who uses the idea/method and gets a loss, spend some time on seeing if you could play it in a better way.

Vladir, never tried +2/-1, but some should test it

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/04/06/temp_491396.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/sGRig)

Look at the avg to hit, is it not saying bet the non-hit, if you just watch and go from spin 11 keep those max to hit in your memory, you are waiting for a favorable time to step in, so watch how the repeats happen, think where the larger group is, and remember the most talked of formula 1/37 gets you to these points

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 03, 10:56 AM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Jul 15, 04:03 AM 2016

    Quote (selected)

Averages for 100 games and for 200 games
* Jackpot Joy Average.xlsx (106.44 kB - downloaded 93 times.)

You can see this on page 93 and 94; small but i'm now at 900 games and the max to hit has slowed down. The average to hit is constant.
By october will have 1000 games and i'll show you that the avverage to hit is there plus how the maximum to hit has seldom changed.

Its like having a time table, you'll just have to wait.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 03, 10:59 AM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/03/temp_478883.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2SHit)

Look at the 19th non-hit 2 replies back Apr 06
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 18, 03:36 PM 2018
Just to please Mako and co

Random.org, 1st 3; sets of 148 spins from yesterday.

Trot placed for the blind 8)
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/18/temp_311735.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2uxTl)(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/18/temp_842464.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2uM3c)(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/18/temp_981445.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2uQ7a)

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/18/temp_883432.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2uYzF)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 18, 03:39 PM 2018
These to need to be done.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/18/temp_614624.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2u3Wi)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mako on Jul 18, 03:40 PM 2018
I like the trot being displayed for those of us who aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer... :twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 18, 03:48 PM 2018
So study these spins you might be able to do well on MPR as Steve said will get #'s from Random.org.

Mako 123 sets of 148 spins, should have got 185, but you can see how many times all starting 37 have gone before spin 148

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/18/temp_777980.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2uABA)

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mako on Jul 18, 04:05 PM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Jul 18, 03:48 PM 2018
So study these spins you might be able to do well on MPR as Steve said will get #'s from Random.org.

Mako 123 sets of 148 spins, should have got 185, but you can see how many times all starting 37 have gone before spin 148

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/18/temp_777980.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2uABA)

Surprising to me because I would have thought you'd get at least one, if not 2+, sleepers that would exceed 148 spins without a doubt, every single time.   :ooh:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mako on Jul 18, 07:00 PM 2018
"KTF Lite" session: Started at 39th spin, 14 unhit numbers remaining. Began a 1u standard progression on all of them, took 105 spins to clear the board.

The worst miss streak actually occurred with 12 numbers remaining right at the start, remainder was drama-free.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mako on Jul 19, 03:56 AM 2018
Quote from: Nimo on Apr 05, 11:55 AM 2018
I tried it, taking first profit with a larger unit size, but keeping the original rules of a 400 unit bank.  I play until 1st profit, but I keep spinning until all 37 numbers have shown before I start a new session.  Usually around 120-150 spins.  Have not lost a single session, or had a larger drawn down than 220 units in 77 sessions. 

After fooling around today with a variety of different progressions, start points, end points, etc, this has wound up being the best way to play (super small sample of course).

Slightly higher unit size takes courage early, but the probability is in your favor at that point.   Thanks for all the work in this thread notto, enjoying the method so far.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 19, 07:07 AM 2018
Mako
I’ve been collecting these #’s for 909 days. They are airball and come from jackpot247.com:
On day one I told the forum where the #’s were coming from, so members could record the show and verify the #’s, but no one ever confirms them.
What am I after? Too know the average for the staring, 37 unique.
Now before the hated green tester appeared, it was done manually, so slow process.
But data collected the same way on rng bookies roulette, shows comparable information, 15 of the remaining non-hit, show in spins 11-40:
So with the 15 non-hit in spins 11-40 for rng, would it be the same on the airball spins, J247.com; answer yes.
Well with two sources showing 15 non-hit shows in spins 11-40, where else could we look? Answer from  one of the forum’s experts, the general, Random.org, I now started collecting 148 spins, 4 cycles of 37, but should have gone for 185 #’s; as you have seen that all 37 have hit on numerous occasions within the 148 #’s; so would 185 #’s confirm this theory of 1 # miss for hundreds of spins.
There are 128 sets of 148 numbers/spins so far, of which all the starting 37 have hit in 64 of the 128 sets, with a known maximum of 72 spins; so would 185 numbers show all 37 have hit?
Again data for Random.org is showing 15 of the remaining non-hit, hit in spins 11-40; 3 different sources.
So here are today’s #’s from J247.com; the show aired for 174 minutes producing 85 spins.
As just a string could you say how many of the starting 37 have hit? So old school way is to collect the spins on the paper sheet in blocks of 10’s. The sheet shows what the green tester shows, you can see how many non-hit in each group, just like the tester that Priyanka gave free.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/19/temp_200086.jpg) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2uZC9)

So collecting this way you can see Vaddi idea, a miss in the 1st 10; you can see how Turbo could have seen the repeat idea, but what does GUT tell you, the larger group is favourable 0X’s v 1X’s; say spins 21-30 0X’s v 1X+>1x; all these methods you could get from collecting in groups of 10 spins.
So do you know the non-hit averages? You can see on the sheet both groups 11-20 give the average of 7 non-hit +2 on the expected 5;

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jul 19, 08:27 AM 2018
Glad to hear that nimo...

Do you start after 10 spins?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mako on Jul 19, 03:10 PM 2018
Notto, yes, with the total picture available from all of the data you've worked hard to collect it's relatively easy to see when probability is either ahead, or behind, the curve for repeaters or no-hits within each 10-block. 

And even just running a couple dozen tests yesterday I could see it happen in real time, each instance of say zero repeaters in the first 10 spins led to increased repeater occurrence in the next 10 (every single time) and vice-versa...to the point where if 3-4 repeaters had shown up in that first 10 block you could have bet the house progressively on no-hits to arrive in bulk immediately after.

It's simple to implement, my only question is one you've surely asked of the data yourself...with all of your lengthy runs, if you take KTF to say 3 remaining no-hits left on the board...approximately 85-110 spins, you've only busted out 3 times out of 275...which would mean total losses would be around $12k, meanwhile total wins would be a 10-20x multiple of that $12k...

Obviously you'd hit betting spread limits for the most part, couldn't do it via airball or rng machines, would require table play in a flexible house...but let's say you have that available just for kicks. 

What does your data show if you had taken it to that limit, 3 no-hits remaining (I chose 3 no-hits left for time reasons...more efficient to not chase the remainders for 50+ spins at a slow wheel and just start a new session I'd guess), unlimited BR, unlimited table spread.  I'm curious because your data is immense, lets put some new scenarios to it and see how it holds up.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jul 19, 06:17 PM 2018
Question for nimo

Are you playing on rng or airball? Because you can’t lay this many chips on live dealer

Anyone playing ktf on airball?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jul 19, 06:28 PM 2018
Say you have 10 uniques in 10
Spins

You have to place 26 chips. Not saying it doesn’t work just saying how is that possible
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mako on Jul 19, 06:54 PM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Jul 19, 06:28 PM 2018
Say you have 10 uniques in 10
Spins

You have to place 26 chips. Not saying it doesn’t work just saying how is that possible

notto is on airball/rng terminals RG, not sure how Nimo did his.  Nimo has moved on though, he now claims to be making a killing with Turbo's repeater/progressive method, doubt you'll get his answer.

Definitely wouldn't want to try it on a live table though, the dealer would roll his eyes right out of their sockets and onto the floor...

The good thing though is all of notto's data is based basically on rng at the worst, so it's not a question of wheel zones or sectors determining the outcome...just raw probability and hopefully not running into low probability outcomes too often in a row.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 19, 07:26 PM 2018
Now you think it's hard to play live, now Steve this is to show it can be done on MPR with 30 seconds to lay 28 units. Just like the B+M use touchscreen we are in the modern world not like MR J; just press re-bet.

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/19/temp_562625.jpg) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2BUFy)

See 5304 well had not been on for a while tonight had 2 games last game above
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/19/temp_490760.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2BeRL)
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/19/temp_347695.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2BlfS)
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/19/temp_618892.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2B05o)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 19, 07:39 PM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/19/temp_261407.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2B6Mp)

Done some more today, dont the average to hit say 2 spins up to 19th non-hit look above  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jul 19, 08:11 PM 2018
It’s been awhile since I’ve played airball

You are right

Once you get the bets down all you need to do next spin is hit rebet. And then take down the chips you want to take off.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 28, 03:49 PM 2018
Quote from: Mako on Jul 18, 04:05 PM 2018

    Quote (selected)

Quote from: nottophammer on Jul 18, 07:48 PM 2018

    So study these spins you might be able to do well on MPR as Steve said will get #'s from Random.org.

    Mako 123 sets of 148 spins, should have got 185, but you can see how many times all starting 37 have gone before spin 148


Quote from: Mako on Jul 18, 04:05 PM 2018
Surprising to me because I would have thought you'd get at least one, if not 2+, sleepers that would exceed 148 spins without a doubt, every single time.   :ooh:

Mako and general be prepared

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/28/temp_387172.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2PAIV)

Should have done sets of 185 not 148: all 37 gone in 99 sets
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mako on Jul 28, 03:56 PM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Jul 28, 03:49 PM 2018
Mako and general be prepared

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/28/temp_387172.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2PAIV)

Should have done sets of 185 not 148: all 37 gone in 99 sets

Wow look at that...99 sets worth without a mega-sleeper. So many finished off in the last third of total spins...

Good job notto  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Jul 28, 08:52 PM 2018
Notto,
You still use +1/-1 prog or you changed?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 29, 01:35 PM 2018
From the has beens site where the general hangs out
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/29/temp_257871.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2jNW9)

#'s from Mantronix
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 29, 01:38 PM 2018
His 2nd session

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/29/temp_319628.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2jpuZ)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 29, 01:40 PM 2018
BBB

I just watch the trot of the non-hit

Look at the time table, do i need to say more
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 29, 01:47 PM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/29/temp_272166.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2juZD)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Jul 29, 01:49 PM 2018
Notto,

Does the number of pockets on the wheel determine the probability of a number hitting?

or

Do the past numbers that have or have not hit determine the probability of a number winning?  ::)


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Nimo on Jul 29, 02:03 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Jul 29, 01:49 PM 2018
Notto,

Does the number of pockets on the wheel determine the probability of a number hitting?

or

Do the past numbers that have or have not hit determine the probability of a number winning?  ::)

One is the odds, the other is the probability, add the payout, formulate a strategy around those and profit.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 29, 02:06 PM 2018
Quote from: Nimo on Jul 29, 02:03 PM 2018
One is the odds, the other is the probability, add the payout, formulate a strategy around those and profit.
Thank you Nimo, but i just ignore his posts, i said before he's as thick as a plank of wood
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Jul 29, 02:10 PM 2018
QuoteOne is the odds, the other is the probability, add the payout, formulate a strategy around those and profit.

(link:s://media.giphy.com/media/CYmg1W3SYGxFu/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Nimo on Jul 29, 02:10 PM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Jul 29, 02:06 PM 2018
Thank you Nimo, but i just ignore his posts, i said before he's as thick as a plank of wood

You are insulting the plank of wood's intelligence by comparing the two. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jul 29, 07:53 PM 2018
notto

i know you bet the unhits after spin 10

have you tried starting at other points? say spin 11 or spin 15

or did you find ten was the best spot?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 30, 05:40 AM 2018
Ok dip your fingers in this appetizer
210 sets of 148#'s supplied by Random.org

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/30/temp_438527.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2cFAr)

It's to late now but should collected 185#'s not 148; as how many times would all 37 have gone, here you see they've gone in 107 sets of the 210.

Now with this small set of sets, the max to hit have started to slow, this is posted, so in 1000 sets will the max to hit changed much, only time will tell
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 30, 05:42 AM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/30/temp_879639.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2cOJx)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 30, 06:31 AM 2018
Might as well have this, the checkpoints

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/30/temp_462204.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2cwI9)

As you can see 10/10 has happened 50 times of the 210 sets
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Jul 30, 09:37 AM 2018
I ran another test overnight.  47992 game starts, 100 spins.
Calculated how many repeaters appeared in 10, 20, 30, 40 spins after the 1st repeater appeared.

So:
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/30/temp_245177.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2cECl)
As expected, 1st repeater arrived on average at spin 8, with normal repeater distribution.
There were about 3 repeaters in the next 10 spins, 20 repeaters in the next 40 spins.
2nd repeater arrived overall 3-4 spins later.

On average, after the 1st repeater, the next repeater arrived next spin 19,68% of times.
This is an average.  How is this 20% distributed?
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/30/temp_185243.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2cxFa)

I ran the test because I wanted to see: if playing unhits after 1st repeater, what are the winning chances.
So, if I had played the unhits when the 1st repeater arrived on spin 4, example, would have lost 6,56% of time, as opposed to 8,11%, so a better hitrate than theory.
On the other side, if played hits when 1st repeater arrived at spin 10, would have won 23,07% instead of theoretical 24,32%.

Will let the macro run all day and see how it evens out long term.
This is Excel random, take it or leave it.
Just fun to play with numberssss...

Results so far for 2 runs of tests:
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/30/temp_813169.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2cMRF)

Hypothesis: safe to play unhits if 1st repeater arrives at spins 4, 5 or 6?

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Jul 30, 09:43 AM 2018
Excel rng is notoriously flawed. You are much better off by importing random.org spins.

We are almost done on 250k random.org spins on mpr, and you can use that when mpr finished with them. I already published the file but not password
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jul 30, 09:44 AM 2018
Quote from: Bigbroben on Jul 30, 09:37 AM 2018
I ran another test overnight.  47992 game starts, 100 spins.
Calculated how many repeaters appeared in 10, 20, 30, 40 spins after the 1st repeater appeared.

So:
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/30/temp_245177.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2cECl)
As expected, 1st repeater arrived on average at spin 8, with normal repeater distribution.
There were about 3 repeaters in the next 10 spins, 20 repeaters in the next 40 spins.
2nd repeater arrived overall 3-4 spins later.

On average, after the 1st repeater, the next repeater arrived next spin 19,68% of times.
This is an average.  How is this 20% distributed?
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/30/temp_185243.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2cxFa)

I ran the test because I wanted to see: if playing unhits after 1st repeater, what are the winning chances.
So, if I had played the unhits when the 1st repeater arrived on spin 4, example, would have lost 6,56% of time, as opposed to 8,11%, so a better hitrate than theory.
On the other side, if played hits when 1st repeater arrived at spin 10, would have won 23,07% instead of theoretical 24,32%.

Will let the macro run all day and see how it evens out long term.
This is Excel random, take it or leave it.
Just fun to play with numberssss...

Results so far for 2 runs of tests:
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/30/temp_813169.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2cMRF)

Hypothesis: safe to play unhits if 1st repeater arrives at spins 4, 5 or 6?

Absolutely figures we can use to our advantage

Good work!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 30, 09:45 AM 2018
Quote from: Bigbroben on Jul 30, 09:37 AM 2018There were about 3 repeaters in the next 10 spins
Lets move to spins 11-20, Random.org is giving 7 non-hit, so 3 repeats
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 30, 09:47 AM 2018
BBB
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/07/30/temp_919402.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/2c3Ms)

1st 10 spins

10/10 has happened 50 times out of 210 sets
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Jul 30, 09:54 AM 2018
Quote from: Steve on Jul 30, 09:43 AM 2018
Excel rng is notoriously flawed. You are much better off by importing random.org spins.

We are almost done on 250k random.org spins on mpr, and you can use that when mpr finished with them. I already published the file but not password
Ok. Will import them and run the macro.  Where are the nrs from random.org?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jul 30, 09:44 PM 2018
Reading through the thread

On airball would be very hard to do +1/-1 maybe even impossible

The only thing you can can is place your bet. Then if lose hit the 2X button to double up

On a win remove number hit. If still down stay at that unit size until recover then remove all chips and retrack

+1/-1 is not practical on airball or live dealer so will have to adapt
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 31, 05:16 AM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Jul 30, 09:44 PM 2018
Reading through the thread

On airball would be very hard to do +1/-1 maybe even impossible

The only thing you can can is place your bet. Then if lose hit the 2X button to double up

On a win remove number hit. If still down stay at that unit size until recover then remove all chips and retrack

+1/-1 is not practical on airball or live dealer so will have to adapt

Rich
i've just been on MPR as of late no one there, strange, anyway 29 #'s laid, by going down the columns, but i have the sheet with the 60 spins, so can see going down column one, what needs to be laid.

1st 4 spins, 11-14 all win, next lost betting 25#'s, so hit the repeat, and like you said i stayed at 2 units and won +55

Now when i do summer pick up at airport, casino down the road, as long as it's busy then you get a minute plus and on the touchscreen its a piece of piss to lay.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 31, 05:18 AM 2018
when football is on i go in shite Aspers and use the airball, it's the one Celticknits liked, any way you can lay the numbers
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 31, 05:29 AM 2018
Funeral Thursday so at 8:30 this morning 1st in the barbers, all tidied up and over to Corals, RNG. took the last 10 spins on marquee bet all remaining non-hit, 8 spins  +57 units. No problem.

Now about the plasterer on next machine, £30 spins, and getting no where, asked do you know anything about Roulette, answer NO, so what the fuck is he playing it for. Asked so you don't know probability, that the machine should give somewhere near to 23/24/25 numbers over 37 spins, Lost him, so just walked to cashier and went.

So you see why FOBT's have such a bad name when the 99.99% of cunts don't have a clue.

Taotie be careful, you'll get my watched status up further LOL
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jul 31, 09:41 AM 2018
Question for those who play KFC

Only interested in responses from those playing it

What unit bankroll do you use?

+1/-1 prog or flat bet?

I have airball machines galore 20 miles to my west and 10 miles to my norh. I have come to the conclusion that this method can not be played with a live dealer standing in front of you. It must be stadium roulette or airball roulette with a screen to bet on

On my airball I can press rebet and then move the chip off the winning number

However I cannot do +1/-1 not enough time

So the thought is to double up and stay at that size.....then on profits retrack

*play with money you can afford to lose this is roulette

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Jul 31, 09:44 AM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Jul 31, 09:41 AM 2018
Question for those who play KFC

Only interested in responses from those playing it

What unit bankroll do you use?

+1/-1 prog or flat bet?

I have airball machines galore 20 miles to my west and 10 miles to my norh. I have come to the conclusion that this method can not be played with a live dealer standing in front of you. It must be stadium roulette or airball roulette with a screen to bet on

On my airball I can press rebet and then move the chip off the winning number

However I cannot do +1/-1 not enough time

So the thought is to double up and stay at that size.....then on profits retrack

*play with money you can afford to lose this is roulette

Ghost,

Why do you feel it's too hard to play live?  What's tough about it?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jul 31, 09:48 AM 2018
Interested only in speaking to those that play this method regarding my post.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Jul 31, 09:50 AM 2018
Seriously now, you've got 45 seconds to bet over there where you play, which is plenty of time to bet a gazillion numbers and to make calculations.  So what is holding you up?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jul 31, 09:52 AM 2018
I will be performing real world tests shortly

The problem on the airball isn’t the amount of time but changing the chip sizes

The rebet option is what makes it easy to play
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Jul 31, 09:59 AM 2018
Ok, here's what you do.

Practice.
Speed up time by practicing with a metronome or music (put on some earbuds).  Gradually increase the beats per seconds until you reach 120 beats per second.  Overtime you'll find that you can make your calculations and bets much much more quickly.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jul 31, 10:07 AM 2018
I find that many airball touch screens are faulty

You press a number and it selects the split or the number next to it

I blame the mutants in queens
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Jul 31, 10:42 AM 2018
Ghost,

You can buy a stylus to more accurately touch bet on the screens .
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jul 31, 06:30 PM 2018
Too bad Celtic stopped posting

Wanted to see what airball machines he was using.

He sounded like +1/-1 was a breeze on the machines

Curious how he was doing it
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 31, 06:37 PM 2018
Rich
I'm trying just the +1; going ok.
Now i've got some more R.org to do, but it will still show 15 in spins 11-40

Get ready for Bla, Bla and gifs, the shaking head.

I take no notice of the 2 bla, bla's; now Winkel and GUT is a good place to start.
Notto you're slow a retard, so what Mr know nothing
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Jul 31, 06:39 PM 2018
Maybe Celtic is rich. Lol.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Aug 01, 08:05 PM 2018
Notto,

I really want to see you be successful but watching how you test and analyze data is painful.

You've got to study even a little basic probability and some statistics 101.
Your test samples are so small they could just be one spin.  Also you need controls, defined testing parameters and out of sample testing.


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Aug 01, 08:07 PM 2018
general.....he posts real life data...charts from daily spins

profits day in and day out

this is fine

not your cup of tea so stick to what you do
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Aug 01, 08:12 PM 2018
i just dont understand how posting the days spins and how his method did is in any way "painful"

this is not a million spin test kind of method

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Aug 02, 12:33 AM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Aug 01, 08:12 PM 2018
i just dont understand how posting the days spins and how his method did is in any way "painful"


It's like watching a three legged dog endlessly chase it's tail.

There are sooo many things wrong with the testing.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Aug 02, 02:55 AM 2018
Quote from: The General on Aug 01, 08:05 PM 2018Your test samples are so small they could just be one spin.  Also you need controls, defined testing parameters and out of sample testing.
You're the expert you do it and show the averages.
But will you have time as you must spend so much time copying and pasting, plus looking for the wobbly wheels
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Aug 10, 09:57 AM 2018
W.Gator
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/08/10/temp_447301.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tGfu1)

Perfect
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/08/10/temp_284155.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tGhZ5)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Shogun on Aug 18, 11:12 AM 2018
Thanks for KTF Notto.
Are you still playing it and how is it going ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Still on Aug 26, 07:02 PM 2018
Looking more closely at this today. 

If i've got the stats right, there is a 50% chance of getting a non-hit to hit, between spins 11-40.  That is, in a 30 spin window, we expect a non-hit to hit 15 times. 

So we look at the first ten spins, and bet on the remaining non-hit, which might be as many as 29 numbers, starting out, or 27 on average (usually 8 out of first 10 are hit).

Each time a number hits, it is removed from the next group of numbers to bet.  By the end of the next 30 spins, we might be betting as few as 14 numbers, but the average number of numbers bet will be around 21.75, given an initial bet of 27 numbers.  That is the average loss.  The average win, on the other hand, will be 15.25.   

In that case, the average loss over 30 spins will be 21.25 x 15 = -326.   The average wins will be 15.25 x 15 = +228.   

So the flat bet expectation would be to lose -97 units per game...if you were to always play to 30 spins. 

Applying a +1/-1 progression, you would always win (200+) given an equal distribution of wins and losses, alternating each time. 

When the win/loss distribution varies, that's when we see some big losses.  But does the progression prevail in the long run?

Still working on some tests, but it seems the progression is what makes this work, or watching the average expectations at the checkpoints, and betting accordingly. 

Or something else i can't see right now?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Aug 26, 09:09 PM 2018
Quote from: Still on Aug 26, 07:02 PM 2018
Looking more closely at this today. 

If i've got the stats right, there is a 50% chance of getting a non-hit to hit, between spins 11-40.  That is, in a 30 spin window, we expect a non-hit to hit 15 times. 

So we look at the first ten spins, and bet on the remaining non-hit, which might be as many as 29 numbers, starting out, or 27 on average (usually 8 out of first 10 are hit).

Each time a number hits, it is removed from the next group of numbers to bet.  By the end of the next 30 spins, we might be betting as few as 14 numbers, but the average number of numbers bet will be around 21.75, given an initial bet of 27 numbers.  That is the average loss.  The average win, on the other hand, will be 15.25.   

In that case, the average loss over 30 spins will be 21.25 x 15 = -326.   The average wins will be 15.25 x 15 = +228.   

So the flat bet expectation would be to lose -97 units per game...if you were to always play to 30 spins. 

Applying a +1/-1 progression, you would always win (200+) given an equal distribution of wins and losses, alternating each time. 

When the win/loss distribution varies, that's when we see some big losses.  But does the progression prevail in the long run?

Still working on some tests, but it seems the progression is what makes this work, or watching the average expectations at the checkpoints, and betting accordingly. 

Or something else i can't see right now?

The probability of winning doesn't change from one spin to the next based on what numbers have or have not hit. ::)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Aug 26, 10:04 PM 2018
It is really hard to find a proper goal and proper stop-loss with KTF.

It is always a trade off from, say, winning 50u 9 times and losing once 500u, or winning 400 times 5u and losing once 2500u.  Modify the goal and the game winrate changes, modify the stoploss: idem.

Did test tens of thousands of runs, using different +/- progs, flat, exponential progs (*2- /2), different starting spins, different triggers, like play only after first repeater, or play after 1st repeater and for 3 spins, reset at new high, usw...

It is overall a negative resulting game, at least when mechanically applying different values  and parameters.  (Sorry Notto).

Like you said, the ''bet accordingly'' part, or ''feeling'' part is hard to include in a programmed Excel sheet.

Nevertheless, enjoy this attached Little Helper.  Enter Zero as 37 in column B.  Choose parameters in column N. (Game start when both ''Start spin'' and ''start after repeater'' conditions are fulfilled.  To focus on one of these 2, enter ''0'' in the other cell).

P.S.: Can you find Waldo?
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/08/26/sourcebb9ed.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tErEi)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Aug 26, 10:21 PM 2018

QuoteIt is really hard to find a proper goal and proper stop-loss with KTF.

If the system worked then it wouldn't require either a win goal or a stop loss. ::)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Aug 26, 10:30 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Aug 26, 10:21 PM 2018
If the system worked then it wouldn't require either a win goal or a stop loss. ::)

In other way, if a “ broken wheel” really worked u wouldnt spend time here . More play means more money.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Still on Aug 26, 11:39 PM 2018
Nice spreadsheet/tester.   Thanks.   You have some skills there BigBroBen. 


With a little more time, i would be tempted to automate some testing with the VBA backend, for example, to make a list of results for each session, adding up all the times it hit it's goal (+50) to see if it could ever overcome all the other times it went straight down to the stoploss.   


Am not optimistic though given the basic conditions: a 50% chance in a 30 spin window, with an average loss that is greater than the average win...trying to beat it with a progression, a target (which i tend to agree should not be necessary if it works), or closer observation of some checkpoints (trying to bet on reversion to the mean or on the trend). 







Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Aug 26, 11:53 PM 2018
Quote from: Madi on Aug 26, 10:30 PM 2018
In other way, if a “ broken wheel” really worked u wouldnt spend time here . More play means more money.

It's called "multitasking." More play means more money indeed!  But I still need to network in order to keep tabs on my opportunities.  It's gooood for business. :)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Aug 27, 12:20 AM 2018
What kind of opportunity do u look by bashing  rules based system?

By the way did u see turbo ? The other day u said.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Aug 27, 12:32 AM 2018
Quote from: Madi on Aug 27, 12:20 AM 2018
What kind of opportunity do u look by bashing  rules based system?

By the way did u see turbo ? The other day u said.

Sorry, I just hate seeing recycled ideas that are absurd.

No, Turbo is afraid to meet up with me.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Aug 27, 12:45 AM 2018
Quote from: The General on Aug 27, 12:32 AM 2018
Sorry, I just hate seeing recycled ideas that are absurd.



Why dont u leave them so that they can learn from their mistake?

U didnt answer the question actually. What kind of opportunity u look for ? Like people who will find broken wheel for u? Or what?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Aug 27, 11:51 AM 2018
i'll have some more in october, guess you'll have too wait, back to Random.org
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Aug 28, 11:01 AM 2018
Quote from: Still on Aug 26, 11:39 PM 2018

With a little more time, i would be tempted to automate some testing with the VBA backend, for example, to make a list of results for each session, adding up all the times it hit it's goal (+50) to see if it could ever overcome all the other times it went straight down to the stoploss.   


You can take the Excel file and run macros: it can run like one test per second. 
I'll soon take time to explain how to run macros in a Excel help thread.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Still on Aug 29, 12:32 AM 2018
Quote from: Bigbroben on Aug 28, 11:01 AM 2018
You can take the Excel file and run macros: it can run like one test per second. 
I'll soon take time to explain how to run macros in a Excel help thread.

That would be great.  I am hoping this can be done through Microsoft Onedrive.  Otherwise, i'll have to dust off an older laptop that has full Excel on it.  My current laptops don't run Excel except under 5 MB in OneDrive.   Maybe i can find a copy somewhere to run local, but space is scarce on these cheap net books.   

Meanwhile, it would seem to me better to reverse KTF and bet on repeaters instead. 

Starting with an average 8 numbers, there is apparently 15 chances out of the next 30 spins to get more repeaters: = a 50% chance.   Should be interesting as long as the number of numbers staked is less than or equal to 18.    At spin 30, the average number of numbers staked would be 8 + 15 = 23  but the average bet, through the 30 spins  would be 8 + (15/2) = 15 if i'm not mistaken. 

Can you set up your spreadsheet to bet on repeaters instead?  I could,  but you are already a step ahead, familiar with your coding. 

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Aug 29, 12:38 AM 2018
Yes,
I did a ''Anti-KTF'' sheet, I thought it went more along what I liked, like having more and more chances of winning as the nrs fall.

I will enhance it a little then share.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Sep 10, 07:40 AM 2018
Here,

Rev-KTF.

New feature for rev-ktf: option of rising prog only after a win without new high.  Included infos on firts 4 repeaters, and the ordinal gaps.

Write nrs in the second column, write zero as 37, find Waldo.

No HolyGuac, just another salsa! O0
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 10, 06:12 PM 2018
(link:s://media1.tenor.com/images/14b62911e6c3f8584e64602132570b3c/tenor.gif?itemid=6012778)

The KFC will perform the same regardless of how it's played.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Sep 10, 06:35 PM 2018
lol...I do get to you then
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 10, 06:38 PM 2018
Quote from: Turner on Sep 10, 06:35 PM 2018
lol...I do get to you then

I'm not sure what you mean.   I just really like the tumble weed gif, so I plan on using it a lot.  :xd:

I liked your gif, but I felt the one that I found was better.
Gifs are great!  They add color and fun to posts.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Sep 10, 06:41 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 10, 06:38 PM 2018
I'm not sure what you mean.   I just really like the tumble weed gif, so I plan on using it a lot.  :xd:

I liked your gif, but I felt the one that I found was better.
Gifs are great!  They add color and fun to posts.

yours was a bit cheerful and Hoppity

Mine is more long and drawn out, like your book sales

I still dont think "Paper Pulp Fiction" got the recognition it deserved.

One of my best
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 10, 06:51 PM 2018
Quote from: Turner on Sep 10, 06:41 PM 2018
yours was a bit cheerful and Hoppity

Mine is more long and drawn out, like your book sales

I still dont think "Paper Pulp Fiction" got the recognition it deserved.

One of my best

Yes, there are a terrible fire and every copy spontaneously burst into flames with none to be found anywhere. :)

My gif was still better. :)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Sep 10, 06:53 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 10, 06:51 PM 2018
My gif was better. :)

was it taken from outside the book launch?


(link:s://media1.tenor.com/images/14b62911e6c3f8584e64602132570b3c/tenor.gif?itemid=6012778)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 10, 06:54 PM 2018
Quote from: Turner on Sep 10, 06:53 PM 2018
was it taken from outside the book launch?

No Bing. The giphy gifts don't load as well.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Sep 10, 07:01 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 10, 06:54 PM 2018
No Bing. The giphy gifts don't load as well.

That was a complete swerve

Ill try again

was the book sale strap line "by one, get a pallet free (will heat your home through those long winter months)

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Sep 10, 07:04 PM 2018
He is simply off this week, not out and about working the casinos. This will last one to two weeks....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 10, 07:09 PM 2018
Turner,


Do you know of anyone that would be brave enough to play in a challenge against me here in the US?


(link:s://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/948344037626359808/TiyBCWrH_400x400.jpg)


None of the KFC guys believe enough in the system to play it here.



Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Sep 10, 07:12 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 10, 07:09 PM 2018
Turner,


Do you know of anyone that would be brave enough to play in a challenge against me here in the US?


None of the KFC guys believe enough in the system to play it here.

I dont want to talk about that....guess what I want to talk about

anyhow...Im off to bed.

You are a Fun-guy Caleb



(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/10/source649d8.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tD1vK)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 10, 07:15 PM 2018
(link:s://media1.tenor.com/images/e19785f6d4ed4b298960b14009463c50/tenor.gif?itemid=5441139)

How about you Ghosty?

You believe in the KFC stuff, right?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Sep 10, 08:18 PM 2018
General,
Did you find Waldo yet?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 10, 11:25 PM 2018
No, not yet.

Tell me, are you a KTF/trot follower?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Sep 11, 12:20 AM 2018
Please define:

KTF:___________________________;
Trot:____________________________;
Follower:___________________________;

!

Waldo is the goal of the game.  This is where the fun lies.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Sep 11, 06:06 AM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 10, 07:09 PM 2018Do you know of anyone that would be brave enough to play in a challenge against me here in the US?



To be serious for one minute, I havnt got a clue what KTF is. I have never looked at it or understood it


It (and GUT) look far too complex for me. I think there are much more fundamental and simple things to look at.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Taotie on Sep 11, 06:07 AM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/11/source13bd3.gif) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tDoif)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Sep 11, 06:24 AM 2018
Quote from: Taotie on Sep 11, 06:07 AM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/11/source13bd3.gif) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tDoif)

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Still on Sep 11, 07:47 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 10, 06:12 PM 2018
(link:s://media1.tenor.com/images/14b62911e6c3f8584e64602132570b3c/tenor.gif?itemid=6012778)

The KFC will perform the same regardless of how it's played.

That's right.  Just like a franchise, you will get the same thing, even in North Carolina, South Carolina, or Virginia...unless...unless you are too scared to meet me there.   Your challenge includes airfair and hotel right?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Sep 11, 08:15 PM 2018
Quote from: Turner on Sep 11, 06:06 AM 2018


To be serious for one minute, I havnt got a clue what KTF is. I have never looked at it or understood it


It (and GUT) look far too complex for me. I think there are much more fundamental and simple things to look at.

Exactly right! I ripped the casino a new asshole tonight and I didn't stop to think about LOTT, KTF, ROTT or any other acronym under the sun (no offence)… Just good old common sense, you either win the next spin or not should you decide to bet.
36
22
28
13
16
30
29
15
23
29
13
12
25 col a
4 col a
19 col a
19 col a (repeat)
11
28
31
27 col c
6 col c
24 col c
6 col c (repeat)
21 col c
18col c
21 col c (repeat)
25
18 col c (repeat)
30 col c
31
30 col c (repeat)
11
2

It really doesn't have to be complicated, not at all!!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Sep 11, 08:38 PM 2018
Quote from: wiggy on Sep 11, 08:15 PM 2018
Exactly right! I ripped the casino a new asshole tonight and I didn't stop to think about LOTT, KTF, ROTT or any other acronym under the sun (no offence)… Just good old common sense, you either win the next spin or not should you decide to bet.
36
22
28
13
16
30
29
15
23
29
13
12
25 col a
4 col a
19 col a
19 col a (repeat)
11
28
31
27 col c
6 col c
24 col c
6 col c (repeat)
21 col c
18col c
21 col c (repeat)
25
18 col c (repeat)
30 col c
31
30 col c (repeat)
11
2

It really doesn't have to be complicated, not at all!!
Cheers Wiggy

as you saw....I agree

Not calling anything Notto or Proff.Winkel post, but its a game that pays out unfairly and the less we have to think about and the less paper and pencils at the table (assuming we can get to the table) the better. My advice after all this study after all these years is economy. Strive for economy in your ideas as a goal to approach the table.

Mistakes will cost, and the simpler the idea, the less mistakes can be made.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 11, 10:25 PM 2018
Quote from: Still on Sep 11, 07:47 PM 2018
That's right.  Just like a franchise, you will get the same thing, even in North Carolina, South Carolina, or Virginia...unless...unless you are too scared to meet me there.   Your challenge includes airfair and hotel right?

Still,

You're down in that region huh?  And you want to challenge?  Are you KTF player too?


QuoteExactly right! I ripped the casino a new asshole tonight and I didn't stop to think about LOTT, KTF, ROTT or any other acronym under the sun (no offence)… Just good old common sense, you either win the next spin or not should you decide to bet.



Good job Wiggy!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Still on Sep 11, 10:46 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 11, 10:25 PM 2018
Still,

You're down in that region huh?  And you want to challenge?  Are you KTF player too?




Uh, sure, um...I can meet you in North Carolina in like two days.    (mumble...airfair, hotel room...mumble mumble).   :twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 11, 10:47 PM 2018
Quote from: Still on Sep 11, 10:46 PM 2018
Uh, sure, um...I can meet you in North Carolina in like two days.    (mumble...airfair, hotel room...mumble mumble).   :twisted:

How about farther north?  NY...AC..Penn?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Sep 11, 10:56 PM 2018
Aint there a crazy hurricane rushing in on the East coast? Wheel will spin like never before!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Still on Sep 11, 11:05 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 11, 10:47 PM 2018
How about farther north?  NY...AC..Penn?

Don't believe BigBroBen.  There's no hurricane bout to hit N.C.   See you there two days!  :twisted:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 11, 11:08 PM 2018
Where in two days?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Taotie on Sep 11, 11:58 PM 2018
General,
Fly to Sydney, Australia and I'll kick your ass, guaranteed.

I don't play KTF though.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Still on Sep 12, 12:14 AM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 11, 11:08 PM 2018
Where in two days?

Where the big huge hurricane is about to hit. 

Uh, North Carolina. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Still on Sep 12, 02:05 AM 2018
Quote from: Still on Sep 12, 12:14 AM 2018
Where the big huge hurricane is about to hit. 

Uh, North Carolina.

No don't go there.  I wouldn't want anything bad to happen to you!   >:D

But seriously, no, i'm not one of the faithful, so i could not answer a challenge.  Faith, from a deeply philosophical point of view, is actually a sin...maybe even the biggest.  And the anti-dote to faith is knowledge.

  I agree we need more programmers.  In the eighties, there was a European family, Spanish i think, that was using a 16 bit computer to measure whether a wheel was tilted or not.   They would feed collected spin data into some formula, the patriarch of the family was the programmer.  They were finally  banished from Europe and busted in Las Vegas.  Europe became suspicious when they would not act like most other gamblers, giving tips to the dealers.  I think one dealer got miffed and turned the eye in the sky on them.   There was a big argument in the family about giving tips, but the patriarch over-ruled everybody.  It all caught up to them in Vegas.   Undone because of greed. 

I don't yet have faith in KTF because of my initial tests of both KTF and anti-KTF (repeaters) against Excel's random generator, trying several ideas with about 50k spins each.  I only measured up to 40 spins thinking the effect of watching the first ten spins go by could not possibly have an effect beyond 40, that is, 30 live spins after watching the first 10.   The worst thing that can happen is the results be random, with no perceivable bias to either side, in any tested circumstance.   

So if it wins, how it wins, i do not KNOW (must be knowledge, not faith).   
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 12, 04:04 AM 2018
Quote from: Still on Sep 12, 02:05 AM 2018I only measured up to 40 spins thinking the effect of watching the first ten spins go by could not possibly have an effect beyond 40, that is, 30 live spins after watching the first 10.   The worst thing that can happen is the results be random, with no perceivable bias to either side, in any tested circumstance.   
At last after all the comedy above a sensible reply.
Still, you say,no perceivable bias to either side, exactly, most games gives 50/50 over the 30 spins, 11-40, 15 non-hit and 15 repeats.
Everyone listen i dont KTF, i just watch the 30 spins, bet for  repeat or non-hit.
It's not hard with, 7,5,3 coming.
This from the Germans Data of 20757 live spins(link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/proxy.php?request=link:%3A%2F%2F:.pichost.org%2Fimages%2F2018%2F09%2F12%2Fsourceb6ec2.png&hash=c7108982a14df3674b1e524d8c6079d7) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tNaud)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 12, 04:11 AM 2018
Turner you do know GUT you told me about it years back.

If you cant stand with the casino card and track 1st 10 spins and watch next 30 spins and make decision then i see why you make comedy you are all

link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=I1UfM-PHExU

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Sep 12, 06:36 AM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Sep 12, 04:11 AM 2018
Turner you do know GUT you told me about it years back.

If you cant stand with the casino card and track 1st 10 spins and watch next 30 spins and make decision then i see why you make comedy you are all

link:s://:.youtube.com/watch?v=I1UfM-PHExU

may of lost in the text....I dont know KTF, I do know GUT. I was just saying that they are complicated to sit at a table and mistakes can be made

Its my story. I cant cope with a lot of thinking at the table.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Sep 12, 06:38 AM 2018
Skakus....Notto, of course...I removed the posts. be nice please O0
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 12, 06:56 AM 2018
Tuner
How many names does he go under, is bombus another that stupid transformer, perhaps he's even the idot, the general
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: DoctorSudoku on Sep 12, 10:56 AM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Sep 12, 06:56 AM 2018
Tuner
How many names does he go under, is bombus another that stupid transformer, perhaps he's even the idot, the general


Nottop,
Our buddy Taotie goes by several different aliases on different forums:
Bombus
Skakus
Green Guy (at betselection)
Trilobite (at roulette30)
Marshall Bing Bell

There may be other aliases that he uses -- these are the ones that I am aware of.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: DoctorSudoku on Sep 12, 10:57 AM 2018
Quote from: wiggy on Sep 11, 08:15 PM 2018
Exactly right! I ripped the casino a new asshole tonight and I didn't stop to think about LOTT, KTF, ROTT or any other acronym under the sun (no offence)… Just good old common sense, you either win the next spin or not should you decide to bet.

36
22
28
13
16
30
29
15
23
29
13
12
25 col a
4 col a
19 col a
19 col a (repeat)
11
28
31
27 col c
6 col c
24 col c
6 col c (repeat)
21 col c
18col c
21 col c (repeat)
25
18 col c (repeat)

30 col c
31
30 col c (repeat)

11
2


It really doesn't have to be complicated, not at all!!



Wiggy,
Any columns-related strategy always gets my attention. Thus, I have a few questions related to your above post.

I am assuming the numbers appear chronologically from top (oldest) to bottom (newest).

1.
I know that even though you are based in the UK, you have an interest in the distribution of the the column numbers on the double zero wheel. So did you play this method on a double zero wheel, by any chance?

2.
This seems to be a method targeting column repeats (i.e. consecutive repeats). See highlighted numbers above.

a.
Then why is the 30 (the third last number) regarded as a repeat of the previous 30 (which is the fifth last number)?
Sandwiched between the two 30s is 31 -- which is a number from the first column. 

b.
Also, why is 2 (the last number) not regarded as a repeat number, since the previous number is 11 -- and they are both second column numbers?
Is this method targeting consecutive repeats for ONLY the first and third columns -- and NOT the second? If so, why is that?

If possible, please answer the above questions.
Thanks.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Sep 12, 01:16 PM 2018
Hello DoctorSudoku,

To answer your questions:

1) These numbers came from a single zero wheel.

2) They don't necessarily need to be continuous repeats. A gap of 1 is fine.

From another game.....

30 col c
18 col c
26
30 col c (repeat)
31
36 col c
22
27 col c

The numbers last night just happened to come out in a continuous fashion which is great for maximizing things. Even after the 11 and 2....14 and 29 appeared and the 29 was a repeat. What I mean by a repeat is that the specific number has made a previous appearance in my list. I am trying to capture hot numbers but in a cluster so that I can play up the winnings over a short space of time. So it's a type of positive progression instead of playing a negative style where you can stretch things out a bit more. My reasoning is that if it's hot, it's hot and you might as well go for it.

If you want to be a bit more conservative, you can group things into the sixlines.
I convert the columns into six lines in the following way....

Line 1: 1,4,7,10,13,16
Line 2: 19,22,25,28,31,34
Line 3: 2,5,8,11,14,17
Line 4: 20,23,26,29,32,35
Line 5: 3,6,9,12,15,18
Line 6: 21,24,27,30,33,36

So in the numbers above....

30 col c (line 6)
18 col c (line 5)
26
30 col c (line 6)
31
36 col c (line 6)
22
27 col c (line 6)

So the 6 line (21,24,27,30,33,36) is dominant.

cheers
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 12, 08:31 PM 2018
QuoteSpanish i think, that was using a 16 bit computer to measure whether a wheel was tilted or not

That's absurd.  You don't use a computer to see if a wheel is tilted.  You just look and collect 50 spins worth of deflector smacks.  Pretty simple stuff.   ::)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Sep 12, 08:43 PM 2018
Everyone needs to understand if you have a suitable wheel, you can literally learn to beat it in a few minutes.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Sep 12, 09:24 PM 2018
oh yea

just THAT easy

if that were the case all the AP players would bankrupt the casinos

shake my damn head
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Sep 12, 10:58 PM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Sep 12, 09:24 PM 2018oh yea

just THAT easy

ABSOLUTELY. If you doubt it, then you've got no idea.

Quote from: RouletteGhost on Sep 12, 09:24 PM 2018if that were the case all the AP players would bankrupt the casinos

Nope, because you cant just win $1m and expect the casino to do nothing.

Beating a wheel is easy. Beating the casino is difference because it requires you to avoid detection.

I'll give one example.... you find a typical wheel with typical dominant diamond, typical scatter. The dealers usually close bets about 4 revolutions before the ball falls. You can comfortably get a 10% edge with VB.

The main problem is although you have a strong edge, you cant just bet late spin after spin. It would be too obvious. So you need to be patient, and make deliberate losing and diversionary bets to remain undetected. That might bring your edge down to about 5%. It's still profitable, but you'd also need to bet with smaller units to avoid heat. This means maybe you can earn about $500 in around 2 hours of play. That to a professional player is kinda shit.

But it's easily done. It just takes patience.

And you arent going to do it day after day. Again although winning was easy enough, if you keep coming back too often to the same casino, eventually you'll be noticed. Then all the casino needs to do is close bets earlier until you lose or leave.

There are other methods which are also effective, which allow you to bet BEFORE ball release. They arent difficult either, but you must be attentive or you can go from hitting the right sector to avoiding it. This makes your edge even worse than -2.7%, so you lose even faster than random bet selection.

The reason I prefer roulette computers is because a much higher edge can be obtained, and much in less time. For example +50%. But because of actions required to avoid detection, the actual edge might be 20%. And that's easily enough to win large sums in a short time, while avoiding detection.

Besides needing time and patience, there's nothing particularly difficult about beating casinos. The hardest part is really the TIME it takes for traditional AP. Sure you can spend 8 hours at work each day, but spending that time in casinos is rather tiring. And if you dont know what you're doing, you run a higher risk of just wasting time.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Sep 12, 11:04 PM 2018
There really is so much bullshit and false beliefs about what it takes to beat roulette. None of it is difficult. But if you make mistakes, or dont have the right mindset, you'll probably just burn money.

Realistically very few people have what it takes to play professionally. This is for a few reasons like:

* You need to either learn quickly, or have money to waste while you're learning. Mistakes and slow learning are costly. But if you learn properly without betting real money, then you're a lot more ready for real play, without the risk.

* Most people are too lazy and expect to wave a magic wand and win a fortune.

* Most people dont understand the concept of an edge, and that it takes place over longer term. They're looking for a roulette table to behave like an ATM without any work.

There are more reasons. Again most people dont have what it takes.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 13, 12:35 AM 2018
Ghost,

There's a world that you don't even know exists.
As long as you're lazy and laying around, it will continue to pass you by.


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 13, 01:47 AM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 13, 12:35 AM 2018
Ghost,

There's a world that you don't even know exists.
As long as you're lazy and laying around, it will continue to pass you by.

You r right . The world is named dream world. If you are lazy and dont want to look for stars in the day time its not for you. Go to bed , look at 60s vedio on youtube, take a overdose of meth, look at the sky 🌌 u will get it
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Still on Sep 13, 02:04 AM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 12, 08:31 PM 2018
That's absurd.  You don't use a computer to see if a wheel is tilted.  You just look and collect 50 spins worth of deflector smacks.  Pretty simple stuff.   ::)

Wow.  That reveals alot about you.   Whether or not it's absurd, that's what they were doing.  Just a fact.  He had software that looked at the distribution around the wheel.  Why is that absurd?  What you do today does not change what they did back then.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Sep 13, 02:06 AM 2018
Quote from: Madi on Sep 13, 01:47 AM 2018The world is named dream world.

The dream world is repeaters, cold numbers, sleepers, hot numbers, progression, the trot, law of a third, and so on: the kind of approaches casino staff laugh at.

The real world is advantage play, which are methods that attack vulnerabilities of the device that determines winning numbers: the kind of approaches casinos often hire consultants to advise them about, because they are the real threat.

It's no more my opinion than the solution to a basic mathematical equation. It just is what it is.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Sep 13, 02:09 AM 2018
Quote from: Still on Sep 13, 02:04 AM 2018Why is that absurd?

Because:

1. Dominant diamonds are caused by both ball track imperfections and tilt.

2. Without precise measurements from the ball track, you cannot realistically determine degree of tilt. And even then there is some degree of error.

3. Observing dominant diamonds is really easy. Just watch the spins. you don't need equipment for it.

Using electronic equipment to determine dominant diamonds is like using sophisticated equipment to know if it's raining. Alternatively, just look up.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Joe on Sep 13, 03:10 AM 2018
Quote from: Steve on Sep 12, 10:58 PM 2018There are other methods which are also effective, which allow you to bet BEFORE ball release.

Steve, such as? I thought the only two methods of AP were visual ballistics and bias. I've looked for dominant diamonds before, never found one. I just don't believe AP is a viable proposition any more. Like you say, this stuff concerns the casinos and so they take steps, just like they did with blackjack when card-counting was invented, but bias and VB have been around a lot longer. Sure if you want to travel the world and live out of suitcase you might do well. It's not for me, and I'm not lazy.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Sep 13, 03:32 AM 2018
Quote from: Joe on Sep 13, 03:10 AM 2018Steve, such as? I thought the only two methods of AP were visual ballistics and bias.

Besides computers, the method I prefer is "cross referencing". There are a few ways to do it. One is model the relationships between variables and spin outcomes, use permutations, and check for statistical anomalies. The problem with that is there are billions of calculations for around 300 spins. A quicker and more efficient response is narrowing down your checks for anomalies by considering the likely anomalies, considering wheel physics.

Quote from: Joe on Sep 13, 03:10 AM 2018I've looked for dominant diamonds before, never found one

I've never seen a wheel without them, or at the very least a wheel where the ball doesn't at least tend to avoid falling at a specific region of the ball track. A strong dominant diamond shows itself usually within 10 or so spins. But on some wheels it can take 30+ spins to be clear.

Quote from: Joe on Sep 13, 03:10 AM 2018I just don't believe AP is a viable proposition any more

Almost every wheel can be beaten one way or another. Start by looking at ball scatter. Based on scatter alone, over 70+ spins for each direction, you'll find peaks in the scatter chart in one or more area. Usually this alone will give an edge of 20% or more. All that's left is knowing rotor orientation when the ball has X revolutions to go.

Show me a wheel with completely unpredictable scatter, and no dominant diamond, and that's a difficult, if not impossible, wheel. I've never seen it. What i have seen are other considerations that make winning on a wheel impractical. Beating a wheel is not difficult. Beating a wheel in casino conditions is different, because we have other variables like frequency of spins that can make play impractical.

But so far as getting an edge, the house edge is only small. You need only slight accuracy to overcome it. It's not difficult.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Sep 13, 03:35 AM 2018
Quote from: Joe on Sep 13, 03:10 AM 2018Like you say, this stuff concerns the casinos and so they take steps, just like they did with blackjack when card-counting was invented, but bias and VB have been around a lot longer.

Blackjack is a very different game. Roulette is far more vulnerable, with lots of things that make spins predictable - even if only slightly, which is all that's needed.

Quote from: Joe on Sep 13, 03:10 AM 2018Sure if you want to travel the world and live out of suitcase you might do well. It's not for me, and I'm not lazy.

Most players dont travel. Most play locally and just carefully scout, or wait for suitable conditions. Travelling requires higher stakes play, or your expenses erode your profit too much.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Sep 13, 03:48 AM 2018
Quote from: Steve on Sep 12, 10:58 PM 2018if you keep coming back too often to the same casino, eventually you'll be noticed.

The whole MO is similar to a Burglar



(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/13/source.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tp75o)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 13, 04:02 AM 2018
QuoteI've looked for dominant diamonds before, never found one

Joe,

No you haven't.  ::) You've never tried, probably because you didn't know how.

You should probably just stick with slots or the trot.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 13, 04:13 AM 2018
Quote from: Still on Sep 13, 02:04 AM 2018
Wow.  That reveals alot about you.   Whether or not it's absurd, that's what they were doing.  Just a fact.  He had software that looked at the distribution around the wheel.  Why is that absurd?  What you do today does not change what they did back then.

You're facts are muddy, confused, and or just poorly reported.  I'm sure it's not all your fault.  People often misreport what they don't understand when writing a story.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Joe on Sep 13, 04:15 AM 2018
General, yes I have. It's easy, just record which diamond the ball strikes before leaving the track. They should each  hit the same number of times on average. In the short term of course one or two can hit more often than the others, just as a number can hit more often than others, but this wouldn't be statistically significant.

And please take a day off from being a troll.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 13, 04:22 AM 2018
Quote from: Joe on Sep 13, 04:15 AM 2018
General, yes I have. It's easy, just record which diamond the ball strikes before leaving the track. They should each  hit the same number of times on average. In the short term of course one or two can hit more often than the others, just as a number can hit more often than others, but this wouldn't be statistically significant.

And please take a day off from being a troll.

Joe,

I'm sure your anxious to look now, but before today you were clueless.  I can spot BS a mile away. ::)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Joe on Sep 13, 04:41 AM 2018
QuoteI'm sure your anxious to look now, but before today you were clueless.

No, I wasn't, although I may have given you that impression. There is a lot of misinformation in the gambling world, and it suits me to present an appearance of being a newbie. I don't have a problem being seen as one because I don't have vested interests or a big ego to maintain.

I'm no expert in AP but I do know about the basic techniques. This stuff has been on the web for years, most serious roulette players know about it.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Joe on Sep 13, 04:43 AM 2018
Quote from: Turner on Sep 13, 03:48 AM 2018The whole MO is similar to a Burglar

Yes that's one thing which bothers me about AP methods, there's something shady and underhand about them.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Sep 13, 04:46 AM 2018
Quote from: Turner on Sep 13, 03:48 AM 2018
The whole MO is similar to a Burglar



(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/13/source.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tp75o)

A burglar hides because he steals.

An AP hides because casinos hate to lose, whether fair and square or not.

Theres this bullshit notion that needing to avoid detection makes a system bad. In fact any method that consistently loses the casino is frowned upon by the casino.

The reason you wont get banned for playing crap like repeaters is because it doesnt work. Working does not mean the occasional win, which can and does happen even with random bets.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Joe on Sep 13, 04:47 AM 2018
Quote from: Steve on Sep 13, 03:32 AM 2018Besides computers, the method I prefer is "cross referencing". There are a few ways to do it. One is model the relationships between variables and spin outcomes, use permutations, and check for statistical anomalies. The problem with that is there are billions of calculations for around 300 spins. A quicker and more efficient response is narrowing down your checks for anomalies by considering the likely anomalies, considering wheel physics.

This kind of thing is what interests me more than anything else. I'm surprised that AI and machine learning techniques haven't been explored more on this forum because they offer a lot in the way of heuristics. I don't believe simple systems could ever work.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 13, 04:47 AM 2018
I just find your data claims to be a bit...dubious. 


QuoteYes that's one thing which bothers me about AP methods, there's something shady and underhand about them.

And that's just pathetic.  Stick with the slots   ::)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Joe on Sep 13, 04:59 AM 2018
Quote from: Steve on Sep 12, 10:58 PM 2018Beating a wheel is easy. Beating the casino is difference because it requires you to avoid detection.

If it was really that easy to find a potentially beatable wheel (disregarding avoiding detection for the moment), then a lot of people would be doing it, including some who weren't smart enough to avoid detection. The result would be that the casinos would be alerted to the wheel vulnerabilities and would fix them. I'm not saying it can't be done but only that the bar must be set high in order for the opportunities to exist at all.

I do know someone who spent months looking for a wheel with a dominant diamond (this was back in the 90s). He did find one but his friend got greedy and as a result the wheel was soon removed.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Joe on Sep 13, 05:01 AM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 13, 04:47 AM 2018I just find your data claims to be a bit...dubious. 

Ditto.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 13, 05:06 AM 2018
Quote from: Joe on Sep 13, 04:59 AM 2018

I do know someone who spent months looking for a wheel with a dominant diamond (this was back in the 90s). He did find one but his friend got greedy and as a result the wheel was soon removed.

Months huh? ::)

No you don't.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Roulettebeater on Sep 13, 05:21 AM 2018
I have a method that allows me to predict the point in which the ball leaves the rim (success is 7 or 8 out of 10 spins) ...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Joe on Sep 13, 05:33 AM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 13, 05:06 AM 2018Months huh? ::)

No you don't.

Actually, yes I do. Maybe he wasn't very experienced, but it did take him a long time. So how many wheels in your experience have at least one dominant diamond?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 13, 05:37 AM 2018
Most wheels have a dominate drop zone to some degree.

Some take very few spins to spot, others require hundreds.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Sep 13, 07:02 AM 2018
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Sep 13, 05:21 AM 2018
I have a method that allows me to predict the point in which the ball leaves the rim (success is 7 or 8 out of 10 spins) ...

To what arc/angle of accuracy? How early before the ball falls? Assuming 45 degrees and about 12s before ball falls...

On a wheel without significant dominant diamonds, it's only possible with precise equipment like a roulette computer. Thats because you need accuracy to within about 5-10ms. Humans can't do that. Then you need to factor in deviation from ball and track imperfections. It's just not possible to be that accurate without precise equipment.

If you mean an average wheel with dominant diamonds, itd be very easy to do.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Roulettebeater on Sep 13, 08:03 AM 2018
Quote from: Steve on Sep 13, 07:02 AM 2018
To what arc/angle of accuracy? How early before the ball falls? Assuming 45 degrees and about 12s before ball falls...

On a wheel without significant dominant diamonds, it's only possible with precise equipment like a roulette computer. Thats because you need accuracy to within about 5-10ms. Humans can't do that. Then you need to factor in deviation from ball and track imperfections. It's just not possible to be that accurate without precise equipment.

If you mean an average wheel with dominant diamonds, itd be very easy to do.

No I don’t mean wheel with dominant diamond, the method works on all wheels except automatic wheels.

The computer makes real time projection/ estimation of speeds and provide outcome, my method uses a software that does a simulation based on the actual wheel coordinates and provide an outcome.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Nimo on Sep 13, 08:28 AM 2018
Quote from: Joe on Sep 13, 05:01 AM 2018
Ditto.

So Steve and Caleb decide to take someone to a casino to show them
"How its done".  Lets call this guy Bob.  They show up at the casino and Steve says we have to be covert while doing this so the casino doesn't catch on, put on these fake glasses and moustaches.  Bob says " won't the casino facial recognition software recognise us and assign numbers to our faces so they can track us with their state of the art 4K cameras and recording devices that are hooked up to servers that can keep track of exactly where we bet and what are chip counts are?" Caleb replies "that's absurd! (Thinking in his head, I'm sure glad I got me that word a day vocabulary calendar ) we will also put on these plastic white trash bags on as dinner jackets so they won't know its us. 

They arrive at the table and both Steve and Caleb start tracking the spins explaining that we watch the wheel and the diamonds show us where the ball will land, we are smarter than the Casino, they haven't figured this out yet.  Bob asks" what about the laser triangulation software the casino uses to track every single spin on every single table, articulating for any bias, defective diamond, drop zone, ball decay etc etc. Steve and Caleb yell that's bullshit, we are smarter than any casino, plus we are in disguise so they don't know we are going to take tens of dollars from them.  Bob, having read forums notices patterns that Winkel, Notto, Turbo, and others posted so he starts to play and wins.  Steve and Caleb both scream no!  We have to figure out the wheel
as they remove their shoes to count on their toes.  Bob says, but these patterns are happening in a real wheel just same as RNG.  Caleb says nonsense that's absurd!  Then he starts betting on numbers in the same area.  See
Caleb says, I know what I'm doing, its AP at work. Bob says but you are betting in the same areas that the pattern forms.  Caleb says no, its variance that causes that for those on the forum, for us its skill, besides I'm the expert at roulette on the forum.  I challenged all without any incentive and all refused.  Caleb then reaches into a bag and puts on his tiara he bought himself for being the roulette forum ruler.  Steve screams at Cakeb, no! We are supposed to be covert!  Bob laughs at the clowns waiting for hours to see the imaginary patterns they think make them win, grabs his winnings and goes to cash them in.  Steve and Caleb still arguing finally realize he is gone and say to themselves, shit, that was our ride and bankroll, how will we get home.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Sep 13, 08:43 AM 2018
Wo:!

Ahhhh, I laughed....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Sep 13, 09:03 AM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/13/source.jpg) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tpfL0)

Reminds me of the movie Les Visiteurs...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: wiggy on Sep 13, 09:11 AM 2018
Quote from: Nimo on Sep 13, 08:28 AM 2018
So Steve and Caleb decide to take someone to a casino to show them
"How its done".  Lets call this guy Bob.  They show up at the casino and Steve says we have to be covert while doing this so the casino doesn't catch on, put on these fake glasses and moustaches.  Bob says " won't the casino facial recognition software recognise us and assign numbers to our faces so they can track us with their state of the art 4K cameras and recording devices that are hooked up to servers that can keep track of exactly where we bet and what are chip counts are?" Caleb replies "that's absurd! (Thinking in his head, I'm sure glad I got me that word a day vocabulary calendar ) we will also put on these plastic white trash bags on as dinner jackets so they won't know its us. 

They arrive at the table and both Steve and Caleb start tracking the spins explaining that we watch the wheel and the diamonds show us where the ball will land, we are smarter than the Casino, they haven't figured this out yet.  Bob asks" what about the laser triangulation software the casino uses to track every single spin on every single table, articulating for any bias, defective diamond, drop zone, ball decay etc etc. Steve and Caleb yell that's bullshit, we are smarter than any casino, plus we are in disguise so they don't know we are going to take tens of dollars from them.  Bob, having read forums notices patterns that Winkel, Notto, Turbo, and others posted so he starts to play and wins.  Steve and Caleb both scream no!  We have to figure out the wheel
as they remove their shoes to count on their toes.  Bob says, but these patterns are happening in a real wheel just same as RNG.  Caleb says nonsense that's absurd!  Then he starts betting on numbers in the same area.  See
Caleb says, I know what I'm doing, its AP at work. Bob says but you are betting in the same areas that the pattern forms.  Caleb says no, its variance that causes that for those on the forum, for us its skill, besides I'm the expert at roulette on the forum.  I challenged all without any incentive and all refused.  Caleb then reaches into a bag and puts on his tiara he bought himself for being the roulette forum ruler.  Steve screams at Cakeb, no! We are supposed to be covert!  Bob laughs at the clowns waiting for hours to see the imaginary patterns they think make them win, grabs his winnings and goes to cash them in.  Steve and Caleb still arguing finally realize he is gone and say to themselves, shit, that was our ride and bankroll, how will we get home.

Did Bob get rated?  ???
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Roulettebeater on Sep 13, 09:31 AM 2018
Bullshit being formed at its best shape !
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 13, 09:37 AM 2018
Tara Reid
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/13/source2f9cc.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tphoH) and

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/13/sourcea5b7e.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tpP6d)
Christina Applegate
Good film, BBB

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Sep 13, 09:42 AM 2018
Is it what I wish it is?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: DoctorSudoku on Sep 13, 12:31 PM 2018
Quote from: wiggy on Sep 12, 01:16 PM 2018

Hello DoctorSudoku,

To answer your questions:

1) These numbers came from a single zero wheel.

2) They don't necessarily need to be continuous repeats. A gap of 1 is fine.

From another game.....

30 col c
18 col c
26
30 col c (repeat)
31
36 col c
22
27 col c

The numbers last night just happened to come out in a continuous fashion which is great for maximizing things. Even after the 11 and 2....14 and 29 appeared and the 29 was a repeat. What I mean by a repeat is that the specific number has made a previous appearance in my list. I am trying to capture hot numbers but in a cluster so that I can play up the winnings over a short space of time. So it's a type of positive progression instead of playing a negative style where you can stretch things out a bit more. My reasoning is that if it's hot, it's hot and you might as well go for it.

If you want to be a bit more conservative, you can group things into the sixlines.
I convert the columns into six lines in the following way....

Line 1: 1,4,7,10,13,16
Line 2: 19,22,25,28,31,34
Line 3: 2,5,8,11,14,17
Line 4: 20,23,26,29,32,35
Line 5: 3,6,9,12,15,18
Line 6: 21,24,27,30,33,36

So in the numbers above....

30 col c (line 6)
18 col c (line 5)
26
30 col c (line 6)
31
36 col c (line 6)
22
27 col c (line 6)

So the 6 line (21,24,27,30,33,36) is dominant.

cheers



Wiggy,
That is an interesting twist you have introduced above with your "columns" version of double streets or sixlines.

Unconventional (or nonstandard) groupings can sometimes reveal unconventional (or nonstandard) patterns -- as in your example above.

Of course, whether they are  exploitable or not for making profits is  open to debate (which, in other words, means more testing
is required  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup: ).

Thanks for your response.


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Still on Sep 14, 03:18 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 13, 04:13 AM 2018
You're facts are muddy, confused, and or just poorly reported.  I'm sure it's not all your fault.  People often misreport what they don't understand when writing a story.

I watched a documentary video of some sort.  It might have been misdocumented.  Anythings possible, but retro computing is a hobby of mine so i think i'd remember he used a program he wrote himself on a 16 bit computer.  Anybody's guess what data it processed, but the cover story was it processed the distribution of the falls.   

How are you so sure you know otherwise?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 14, 04:27 PM 2018
Quote from: Still on Sep 14, 03:18 PM 2018
I watched a documentary video of some sort.  It might have been misdocumented.  Anythings possible, but retro computing is a hobby of mine so i think i'd remember he used a program he wrote himself on a 16 bit computer.  Anybody's guess what data it processed, but the cover story was it processed the distribution of the falls.   

How are you so sure you know otherwise?

When it comes to AP play I'm at the top of my game.  I've been banned from more casinos and in more gaming investigations then most people have been in casinos. 

The only reason to have used a computer would have been  to plot a graph of the numbers as they lay on the wheel, showing how many times each number had hit.
Back during that time period ballistic computers were around, but they were terribly inefficient and vb without one was much more effective. 

In short you there was no real benefit to using a computer at that time.  It was just a gimmick to enhance the story by the network
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Still on Sep 14, 04:59 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 14, 04:27 PM 2018
When it comes to AP play I'm at the top of my game.  I've been banned from more casinos and in more gaming investigations then most people have been in casinos. 

The only reason to have used a computer would have been  to plot a graph of the numbers as they lay on the wheel, showing how many times each number had hit.
Back during that time period ballistic computers were around, but they were terribly inefficient and vb without one was much more effective. 

In short you there was no real benefit to using a computer at that time.  It was just a gimmick to enhance the story by the network

Yah the first one...the distribution of the ball falls around the wheel.  Frequency of hits in sectors.  The software indicated where ball was falling beyond random.  So they were scouting, as a family, wheels, logging the ball drops, what numbers were hitting. 

Have not heard how this is a gimmick.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 14, 05:40 PM 2018
Quote from: Still on Sep 14, 04:59 PM 2018
Yah the first one...the distribution of the ball falls around the wheel.  Frequency of hits in sectors.  The software indicated where ball was falling beyond random.  So they were scouting, as a family, wheels, logging the ball drops, what numbers were hitting. 

Have not heard how this is a gimmick.

There's a lot of information missing there.  The family was Pelayo.  There have been many biased wheel teams outside of the Pelayos that were far more successful.  For example the Jackie Newton/Billy Walters team and Dr. Jareki family.  Pelayo had some mediocre success for a while in Spain but lost in the US.  Teams in the US won 10 times more than they did.  Pelayos became known only because they went public with one of their gambling disputes.

In short, they merely collect 15k spins on every wheel and played the numbers that hit the most based on simple standard deviation calculations.
They graphed the numbers possibly using the computer at times, but usually just on a piece of paper.  Graphing the number of times a number has hit, as it lays on the wheel, is pretty simple stuff.  Biased wheel players like the Pelayos have been around since the 1800s and even earlier.

When they say that, "The software indicated where ball was falling beyond random." What they really mean is, the software pointed out the biased numbers that were distributed around the wheel.  The software was very likely just creating a simple standard deviation graph of the wheel.  The software had nothing to do, whatsoever with finding a dominant ball drop deflector or zone on the wheel as it relates to visual ballistics.  Graphing and biased software is all over the internet.  It's just simple formulas dropped into an Excel spreadsheet.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Still on Sep 14, 05:49 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 14, 05:40 PM 2018
There's a lot of information missing there.  The family was Pelayo.  There have been many biased wheel teams outside of the Pelayos that were far more successful.  For example the Jackie Newton/Billy Walters team and Dr. Jareki family.  Pelayo had some mediocre success for a while in Spain but lost in the US.  Teams in the US won 10 times more than they did.  Pelayos became known only because they went public with one of their gambling disputes.

In short, they merely collect 15k spins on every wheel and played the numbers that hit the most based on simple standard deviation calculations.
They graphed the numbers possibly using the computer at times, but usually just on a piece of paper.  Graphing the number of times a number has hit, as it lays on the wheel, is pretty simple stuff.  Biased wheel players like the Pelayos have been around since the 1800s and even earlier.

When they say that, "The software indicated where ball was falling beyond random." What they really mean is, the software pointed out the biased numbers that were distributed around the wheel.  The software was very likely just creating a simple standard deviation graph of the wheel.  The software had nothing to do, whatsoever with finding a dominant ball drop deflector or zone on the wheel as it relates to visual ballistics.  Graphing and biased software is all over the internet.  It's just simple formulas dropped into an Excel spreadsheet.

That's basically what i was trying to say.  Right, i doubt it had to do with deflectors, and it would have been a desktop 16 bit computer, not anything taken into the casino.   

The drops are related to the deflectors though.  And you seem to be saying just look for a dominant deflector to target a sector?

And that is done by sight, not data?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 14, 06:29 PM 2018
Quote from: Still on Sep 14, 05:49 PM 2018
That's basically what i was trying to say.  Right, i doubt it had to do with deflectors, and it would have been a desktop 16 bit computer, not anything taken into the casino.   

The drops are related to the deflectors though.  And you seem to be saying just look for a dominant deflector to target a sector?

And that is done by sight, not data?

Right there is where the confusion exists.  A biased drop zone aka a dominate ball drop is what vb players exploit for visual ballistics.  A dominant ball drop is observed without a computer over a very short period of time and it really has very little effect on wheel bias.

Wheel bias is very different from vb.  Much of the time it's the result of poor wheel assemble, such as a loose lobe/ section of the wheel that abnormally absorbs energy from the bouncing ball on the wheel.  This causes individual number bias and sometimes section bias on the wheel.  There are many different causes of wheel bias.  Wheel bias can be spotted in many situations without wheel tracking.  For example, poor assembly can sometimes be spotted when you know what  to exactly look for, without recording data.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Nimo on Sep 14, 08:25 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 14, 06:29 PM 2018Wheel bias is very different from vb.  Much of the time it's the result of poor wheel assemble, such as a loose lobe/ section of the wheel that abnormally absorbs energy from the bouncing ball on the wheel.  This causes individual number bias and sometimes section bias on the wheel.  There are many different causes of wheel bias.  Wheel bias can be spotted in many situations without wheel tracking.  For example, poor assembly can sometimes be spotted when you know what  to exactly look for, without recording data.



This is a quote from Steve about bias posted on this forum:

Back 30 years ago it was very different. Many casino staff didnt have much idea about wheel bias. To them a bias player would look like someone playing lucky numbers. Plus there were far more biased wheels around. So turning $2000 into $1m in a year was possible. But doung that now wpuld take so much more work that it would be more viable to get a 9-5 job.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Nimo on Sep 14, 08:29 PM 2018
More from Steve:

Overall, bias is a waste of time unless you are surrounded by many casinos with old technology and very lazy staff. Even then there are far more viable options.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Turner on Sep 16, 04:25 PM 2018
Notto
TFFT....Pellegrini is a top manager. More wins to come.
BTW.....
Do you have any fixed odd terminal spins. Lots if possible
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Still on Sep 16, 06:42 PM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Sep 12, 04:04 AM 2018
At last after all the comedy above a sensible reply.
Still, you say,no perceivable bias to either side, exactly, most games gives 50/50 over the 30 spins, 11-40, 15 non-hit and 15 repeats.
Everyone listen i dont KTF, i just watch the 30 spins, bet for  repeat or non-hit.
It's not hard with, 7,5,3 coming.
This from the Germans Data of 20757 live spins(link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/proxy.php?request=link:%3A%2F%2F:.pichost.org%2Fimages%2F2018%2F09%2F12%2Fsourceb6ec2.png&hash=c7108982a14df3674b1e524d8c6079d7) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tNaud)

Not quite sure how to interpret the data you shared.  But at three checkpoints, you will either be over, or under average for the repeats and/or for the non-hits.   

So are you saying you are betting on a return to the mean (back to the average)?

So for example, you have two more non-hits than average at a checkpoint. So you start betting on repeats?

Are you adjusting at each checkpoint, or at each spin?

I'm trying to get some information that i can plug into my Excel sims.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 17, 05:03 AM 2018
Quote from: Still on Sep 16, 06:42 PM 2018I'm trying to get some information that i can plug into my Excel sims.
Hello Still.
KTF started back in 2016.
It was just from observation, that more often than not you can make 50 units.
I found for me best to  use +1/-1.
On numerious occasions i have said i just watch how the non-hit are hitting. Now from 4 different sets of data the average for spins 11-40 is 15.7 non-hit.
The wrong part on my behalf is to round down to 15; i round down as 15 would be half the 30 spins. Which is to perfect to be true.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/17/source.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tr3cA)

Now the above is 660 sets of 185 #'s from Random.org and it looks much the same.

I'll post this and carry on in another reply as might time out
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 17, 05:30 AM 2018
So i let 10 spins go to find out how many non-hit are left.
We can see the expected is 15 non-hit for next 30 spins.

How are the 15 non-hit likely to come? Should it not be 5,5,5? But you see it's more likely to be 7,5,3

So i remember what GUT says at spin 13 could have had 2 repeats, if you look at 8/10 here its happened 179 out of the 660, but 9/10 is the greater; so 1 repeat to me should be there.
So spin 11 is decision time or guess time for the general in this case scenario; to me its better to wait and watch for repeats to happen, if 2 repeats have come say by spin 15, theres 5 spins left, for 1 more repeat to the average of 7,+2

At the same time, there's the average to hit and consideration to max to hit;

So you see, how you going to add the thought or guess to your excel.

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/17/sourcef3ac5.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/trROs)

You can see their averages to hit up to the 19th non-hit is 2 spins, but its the max to consider as well

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/17/source1772b.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/trVR7)

spin1, 468
spin2, 143

thats the average to hit

So Still you build in your decisions

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/17/source50f10.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/trXfQ)

See how far back the 8 came is there 3 spins there?

i'll leave it to you and Big Bro Ben
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 17, 05:59 AM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 14, 06:29 PM 2018


Wheel bias is very different from vb.  Much of the time it's the result of poor wheel assemble, such as a loose lobe/ section of the wheel that abnormally absorbs energy from the bouncing ball on the wheel. 

What the hell. This man is just crazy. R u looking for loose bolt
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 17, 06:04 AM 2018
General behind the wheel
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 17, 06:06 AM 2018
yep definitely wobbly wheels there.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 17, 06:10 AM 2018
Still this is for FOBT's Fixed odds betting terminal

It's from way back but the average to hit is the same

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/17/sourcee0d95.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/trb5y)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 17, 06:14 AM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/17/sourcedddef.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/trdML)

This is results for airball.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 17, 06:15 AM 2018
Be back later to-nite, off to a funeral
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 24, 09:56 AM 2018
thocxo2207

Do you see in spins 11-40; 15 non-hit on average like the generals spins on starbust wheel
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/24/source.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tPi1H)

The only wrong part for me is to drop the .98182; giving 24, take the average 9 away from the 24 and there's your 15

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/24/source67a1a.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tPP4d)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 24, 10:21 AM 2018
Now i'm not the teacher, but this is your decision, why not try just plus1, like RG suggested.
These played about 30 mins ago on MPR,question is are they live spins or R.org, but end +100
Steve with the file of R.org could find these #'s. But who cares.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/24/sourcefb2d8.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tPcSg)

Look at the data in Non-hit time table, learn the averages. Doesn't matter where you play that average of 15 or 16 if you must be math pure, are always there, the old 7, 5, 3 or if you use the 16, then 4

So it started with the repeat, most common
Next only 5 non-hit, which is perfect really, as should it not be for 15; 5, 5, 5
Next i stopped with 6 more non-hit +100

Look at countback it shows the invisible Trot
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 24, 05:40 PM 2018
Here's the problem that everyone chooses to ignore.

In order for you to break even, the binomial distribution needs to fit a 36 pocket wheel, NOT a 37 pocket wheel and NOT a 38 pocket wheel.  Consequently the results in the long run will remain outside of the range of break even because of the short house payoff. 
It's no different than looking at the hit verses unhit for the even chances.  Knowing the probability of winning doesn't enable you to side step it.  ::)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 24, 05:48 PM 2018
Took a while for you to dream up that.
Some can do it, you obviously can't.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 24, 09:18 PM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Sep 24, 05:48 PM 2018
Took a while for you to dream up that.
Some can do it, you obviously can't.

Evidently you feel that the number of pockets on the wheel doesn't matter huh?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 24, 10:01 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 24, 05:40 PM 2018
Here's the problem that everyone chooses to ignore.

In order for you to break even, the binomial distribution needs to fit a 36 pocket wheel, NOT a 37 pocket wheel and NOT a 38 pocket wheel.  Consequently the results in the long run will remain outside of the range of break even because of the short house payoff. 
It's no different than looking at the hit verses unhit for the even chances.  Knowing the probability of winning doesn't enable you to side step it.  ::)

Hei broken wheel master,

What i can see , you are still stuck to the math question set by your examiner in exam.

Why dont you try to solve it rather than thinking ,, omg 😮 there will be thunderstorm , than electricity failure. You gonna light ur little lamp and copy paste from book. Pass😳😳😳
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Sep 24, 10:06 PM 2018
Only on a gambling forum (or flat earth forum) have I seen logic and reason attacked, and bad and "verifiably-incorrect" logic praised.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 24, 10:23 PM 2018
Madi, Notto,

If the number of pockets on a roulette wheel doesn't effect the probability of winning, then what does?

How many pockets would the wheel need to have for your system to lose?  39? 40? 50?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 24, 10:36 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 24, 10:23 PM 2018
Madi, Notto,

If the number of pockets on a roulette wheel doesn't effect the probability of winning, then what does?

How many pockets would the wheel need to have for your system to lose?  39? 40? 50?

Only a crooked rng or wheel does matter. Pocket doesnt .

Why dont u attach a graph with ur broken wheel number of ur dreamy session so that we can have a look how it looks like
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 24, 10:39 PM 2018
Quote from: Madi on Sep 24, 10:36 PM 2018
Only a crooked rng or wheel does matter. Pocket doesnt .

Are you saying the number of pockets doesn't matter?

QuoteWhy dont u attach a graph with ur broken wheel number of ur dreamy session so that we can have a look how it looks like

Which wheel?

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 24, 10:54 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 24, 10:39 PM 2018
Are you saying the number of pockets doesn't matter?

Which wheel?

No. U can add “000” and”0000” on ur wheel . No effect.

Any broken wheel where you play. . One session graph only. Dont upload 10k graph bcz u dont play that much in a session. Or do u?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 24, 11:02 PM 2018
Quote from: Madi on Sep 24, 10:54 PM 2018
No. U can add “000” and”0000” on ur wheel . No effect.

Madi,

How many zeros would a wheel need to have for your system to lose?

QuoteAny broken wheel where you play. . One session graph only. Dont upload 10k graph bcz u dont play that much in a session. Or do u?



If I were to upload one of my long playing session you wouldn't believe it.  To a system player it would seem irrational. 



Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 24, 11:09 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 24, 11:02 PM 2018
Madi,

How many zeros would a wheel need to have for your system to lose?



If I were to upload one of my long playing session you wouldn't believe it.  To a system player it would seem irrational.

U can add 4 more number on ur wheel. More than 4 i didnt check.

If u upload something supernatural why would i believe.? Upload something that is humanly possible. Its not about belief. Asking reason, never seen broken wheel graph. My casino doesnt have any broken wheel
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 24, 11:10 PM 2018
Quote from: Madi on Sep 24, 11:09 PM 2018
U can add 4 more number on ur wheel. More than 4 i didnt check.

If u upload something supernatural why would i believe.? Upload something that is humanly possible. Its not about belief. Asking reason, never seen broken wheel graph.

So you're wanting to see the graph of a biased roulette wheel?
If so I have zillions of them.

QuoteMy casino doesnt have any broken wheel

How would you know?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Sep 24, 11:18 PM 2018
This is a pointless discussion. You can't get anywhere with someone who refuses to acknowledge the Elephant in the room.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 24, 11:50 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 24, 11:10 PM 2018
So you're wanting to see the graph of a biased roulette wheel?
If so I have zillions of them.


No you r wrong. I dont want to see graph for biased wheel. What i want to see is “ a played session by you in a biased wheel if exist”. Plz not the data from your kitchen one
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 24, 11:54 PM 2018
Quote from: Steve on Sep 24, 11:18 PM 2018
This is a pointless discussion. You can't get anywhere with someone who refuses to acknowledge the Elephant in the room.

If u r right then the forum for system player is pointless. Directly admit that and wipe the forum off.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Still on Sep 25, 12:58 AM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 24, 10:39 PM 2018
Are you saying the number of pockets doesn't matter?

No, but the payout does. I'm sure that is what you mean.  If the payout is never going to be higher than 35:1 then yes, 37 or 38 pockets matters. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: maestro on Sep 25, 03:48 AM 2018
QuoteIf I were to upload one of my long playing session you wouldn't believe it.  To a system player it would seem irrational.


@general...do upload spins so we all can see how irrational are...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 25, 03:49 AM 2018
2 extra pockets don't matter, but the fixed odds do.
But like you in a small way i look at this possibly bias wheel, the diifference is i work with the pockets, not looking for the bias number/s or section
Your starburst #'s 1st profit won every set of 185 spins. inFact taking 50/+50 won as well.

The Fixed odds dont change what ever you do, that payout stays. But the payout increases as the number of unhit pockets decrease.

So you have to watch the tumblweed TROT to find the bet, be it on a non-hit or hit number.

The only 2 elephants i know are you General or what ever AKA you use and the forum owner, right pair of wankers
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 25, 03:50 AM 2018
Maestro he has and they passed

WONT BE POSTING ANY MORE
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Sep 25, 04:22 AM 2018
Quote from: Madi on Sep 24, 11:54 PM 2018
If u r right then the forum for system player is pointless. Directly admit that and wipe the forum off.

Madi thats a stupid comment. A few inexperienced people is not a reason to shut a forum down. And besides this thread isn't even in the system players only forum.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 25, 05:34 AM 2018
Quote from: Steve on Sep 25, 04:22 AM 2018
Madi thats a stupid comment. A few inexperienced people is not a reason to shut a forum down. And besides this thread isn't even in the system players only forum.

Not a few. According to you it seems 95% members are inexperienced.

Not a single member can predict next spin not even you.

What do u think?
General can predict next spin? No

He can win on a series of spin. Then what?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 25, 05:38 AM 2018
Steve

If you think you above others not a stupid then answer straight

Tell us what the exact system does turbo play?  Dont just sing the same song” i know the principle”.

Ok lets make it easier. What exactly can make turbo system fail? You can even take help from wheel master.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Sep 25, 05:44 AM 2018
Madi, yes most players here are not consistent winners. Most dont even understand fundamentals. Most are still stuck on nonsense like repeaters.

As for turbo, i already answered in detail. Read previous replies.

Who says i cant predictthe next spin? Not on mpr, but certainly in real casino conditions. If you have to ask why, you need to know why.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 25, 06:13 AM 2018
Quote from: Steve on Sep 25, 05:44 AM 2018

As for turbo, i already answered in detail. Read previous replies.


No one has seen  including
Me anything significant . It was just a long para without any exact answer just circling around. It can be stated in just one or two sentence.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 25, 06:23 AM 2018
Quote from: Steve on Sep 25, 05:44 AM 2018


As for turbo, i already answered in detail. Read previous replies.

Who says i cant predictthe next spin? Not on mpr, but certainly in real casino conditions. If you have to ask why, you need to know why.

Would you be happy to show me in crown. Just 37 spin by spin . Need to be correct 37 times placing bet on only one number.

Ps: james bond strategy can predict sometimes 37 times in 37 spin using 30 number.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 25, 07:04 AM 2018
Madi
These 2 jokers, are the typical persons who have gambled and lost. They try and try again but still lose.
So as they can't win, Guess what you can't.

Now they try to undermine everything, get everyone thinking that its impossible to win.

Madi you know whats coming, yes bla bla.

Try on MPR, why is no one winning, when its a brilliant place to test, no glitch's, no number comes before you even had chance to lay a unit, because its not programed as good as R-sim, so you get from a responsible adult, grow up Madi, grow up Notto.
No Steve its fact.

Why should members believe what you come out with, a part from; by my computer sales pitch.

Yep carry on preaching
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Sep 25, 07:50 AM 2018
Quote from: Madi on Sep 25, 06:13 AM 2018
No one has seen  including
Me anything significant . It was just a long para without any exact answer just circling around. It can be stated in just one or two sentence.

Madi i repeated myself many times and was very clear. Im not wasting more time.

Quote from: Madi on Sep 25, 06:23 AM 2018Would you be happy to show me in crown. Just 37 spin by spin . Need to be correct 37 times placing bet on only one number.

37 spins isnt much unless it has supporting information such as rotor strike point prediction. I dont have time for 1 in 1 demos unless I'm compensated for my time. So you can attend my next public demo which is free. I dont know if i'll do another one. A recording of a public demo is on my site.

To be correct 37 of 37 spins while betting 1 number is not realistic. Now you're being stupid about it. Don't tell me you can do that. If you could, your test on mpr would have been clearly positive.

Quote from: Madi on Sep 25, 06:23 AM 2018Ps: james bond strategy can predict sometimes 37 times in 37 spin using 30 number.

Sometimes? Madi im sorry but you arent understanding the fundamentals.

Quote from: nottophammer on Sep 25, 07:04 AM 2018Now they try to undermine everything, get everyone thinking that its impossible to win.

Notto, its simpler. We point out mistakes, explain and provide proof, and people get offended. Instead of offering proof beyond nonsense like 22 spin charts, we get accusations of ulterior motives.

Quote from: nottophammer on Sep 25, 07:04 AM 2018Try on MPR, why is no one winning, when its a brilliant place to test, no glitch's, no number comes before you even had chance to lay a unit, because its not programed as good as R-sim, so you get from a responsible adult, grow up Madi, grow up Notto.
No Steve its fact.

I ran tests for thousands of spins to see bugs are rare to the point they dont significantly affect play, and certainly not enough to claim your bad results are due to them. Why are your results so bad notto? Its the games fault, right? Dont direct your frustrations at me for it.

Quote from: nottophammer on Sep 25, 07:04 AM 2018Why should members believe what you come out with, a part from; by my computer sales pitch.

Nothing to do with any sales pitch. Thats just convenient excuse to dismiss what i say.

You know very well the entire world of qualified mathematicians corroborate what i say. But you believe "math beats a math game". Is the whole professional community working for me?

Notto and madi, i dont care about your mistakes and misunderstandings besides them probably harming and misleading others. Dont take it so personally.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Nimo on Sep 25, 09:01 AM 2018
Quote from: Steve on Sep 24, 11:18 PM 2018
This is a pointless discussion. You can't get anywhere with someone who refuses to acknowledge the Elephant in the room.

Hi Horton, or Babar or Dumbo. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Person S on Sep 25, 12:04 PM 2018
Notto hello, I understand correctly that:
1. The entry point is 11 spins, provided that there are 1 or more repetitions.
2. If there are no repetitions, we wait for 3-5 spins and play the trot if they did not appear ... :question:
3. When do stop loss if the game does not go?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 12:10 PM 2018
Quote from: Person S on Sep 25, 12:04 PM 2018
Notto hello, I understand correctly that:
1. The entry point is 11 spins, provided that there are 1 or more repetitions.
2. If there are no repetitions, we wait for 3-5 spins and play the trot if they did not appear ... :question:
3. When do stop loss if the game does not go?

Well that depends.  Let me look ahead to the next few spins and then I'll tell you what you should have bet.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 25, 12:26 PM 2018
Quote from: Person S on Sep 25, 12:04 PM 2018
Notto hello, I understand correctly that:
1. The entry point is 11 spins, provided that there are 1 or more repetitions.
2. If there are no repetitions, we wait for 3-5 spins and play the trot if they did not appear ... :question:
3. When do stop loss if the game does not go?

Look in link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=20764.0 2nd reply
they are spins supplied by the idiot above
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 12:32 PM 2018
Notto,

Can you define the betting parameters/rules?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Nimo on Sep 25, 12:37 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 25, 12:32 PM 2018
Notto,

Can you define the betting parameters/rules?

Read the thread, its all there. You just skimmed through it and are asking now?  Its been here for over two years.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 12:39 PM 2018
I'm not going to read that mess.

Can anyone carefully define the rules of the system?
The problem with the tests that have been done is that the rules are loose and open to unintentional curve fitting. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Nimo on Sep 25, 12:47 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 25, 12:39 PM 2018
I'm not going to read that mess.

Can anyone carefully define the rules of the system?
The problem with the tests that have been done is that the rules are loose and open to unintentional curve fitting.

Don't be lazy.  You had time to post all those stupid gifs, in that time you could have read what was posted.

It just proves that forum readers can't trust what you or Steve ever say since you argue against something that you don't actually know about.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 12:50 PM 2018
Quote from: Nimo on Sep 25, 12:47 PM 2018
Don't be lazy.  You had time to post all those stupid gifs, in that time you could have read what was posted.

It just proves that forum readers can't trust what you or Steve ever say since you argue against something that you don't actually know about.

In other words, you can't define the rules because they change as you play.  The old, "Could of would of should of bet this here, but would have quit playing here game, but if would have bet this."
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Joe on Sep 25, 12:50 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 25, 12:39 PM 2018Can anyone carefully define the rules of the system?

I would also like to see the rules. Twocatsam was asking at the beginning of the thread but I couldn't see any answer.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 12:59 PM 2018
Quote from: Joe on Sep 25, 12:50 PM 2018
I would also like to see the rules. Twocatsam was asking at the beginning of the thread but I couldn't see any answer.

They can't define the rules.  Nobody can because the rules change based on the numbers yet to hit.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Person S on Sep 25, 01:14 PM 2018
It would be good to reveal the sequence of actions, under what conditions to play CTF, and when to switch to the trot, the middle ranges ... the sheets are already dazzling in the eyes ...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Nimo on Sep 25, 01:15 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 25, 12:59 PM 2018
They can't define the rules.  Nobody can because the rules change based on the numbers yet to hit.

The basic rules are in the thread, some things have been collaborated privately with certain people that have improved it. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 01:22 PM 2018
Quote from: Nimo on Sep 25, 01:15 PM 2018
The basic rules are in the thread, some things have been collaborated privately with certain people that have improved it.

Nimo,

I watched the same game years back when KonFuSed first coded the GUT.  The rules kept changing, and everyone that was playing it seemed to have a separate group of rules that appeared to change based on the number stream being played, and based on their abilities to look forwards and backwards in the data.  ::) 

Without tightly defined betting rules all you're doing is curve fitting to your number streams.   This is why none of you can beat the MPR.  You can't curve fit the data because it doesn't let you look ahead and then go back to change your bets.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: maestro on Sep 25, 01:57 PM 2018
Quote@general...do upload spins so we all can see how irrational are...


general are you going to upload spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 02:03 PM 2018
I will in a while.  I've got to go out and water my pumpkin plants.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: maestro on Sep 25, 02:09 PM 2018
Quote
I will in a while.  I've got to go out and water my pumpkin plants.

do not care upload spins so everyone can see irrational part
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 25, 03:17 PM 2018
Quote from: Steve on Sep 25, 07:50 AM 2018


37 spins isnt much unless it has supporting information such as rotor strike point prediction. I dont have time for 1 in 1 demos unless I'm compensated for my time. So you can attend my next public demo which is free. I dont know if i'll do another one. A recording of a public demo is on my site.

To be correct 37 of 37 spins while betting 1 number is not realistic. Now you're being stupid about it. Don't tell me you can do that. If you could, your test on mpr would have been clearly positive.












Notto and madi, i dont care about your mistakes and misunderstandings besides them probably harming and misleading others. Dont take it so personally.

Demo? 😂


I heard countless time next spin what its matter, betting many number is nonsense. Ball lands on only one number per spin. Failing to predict at least one spin will make it a winner in a series of spin. That what u might do, not only u may be all player.


Why only madi and notto?cant you see countless members are .....?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 25, 03:29 PM 2018
Steve

You and wheel master ,Both of you do not have full understanding of turbos system. Therefore testing by u is not acceptable.
Fundamental means nothing. Repeater can be played in 100 of ways. Not all r winner.

Lets come to the point of wasting time.you waste a lot of time writing unnecessary lines. Write the exact line. We will get ur understanding.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 25, 03:35 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 25, 02:03 PM 2018
I will in a while.  I've got to go out and water my pumpkin plants.

Hei general

Can u write down the rules for turbos system, i also asked steve same thing.

I have seen before notto is correcting you about turbos rule.

Testing  😳. We will do later
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 04:17 PM 2018
Turbo's system...

1. Bet the top four numbers that hit the most.
2. Chase your losses with an up as you lose progression until you win.

3. Go back to the ATM and withdraw more money.

4.  Rince and repeat steps one through three.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 25, 04:35 PM 2018
General,
1. Its not the 4 top number througout the full session. Here goes the lack of seriousness.

2. Wrong again. U must place higher calculated stake on a number once it hit, not before that.  Any player can have reasonable drawdon even you can have and definitely do have.

3. Making fun is ok when u dont get it properly
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 04:57 PM 2018
Quote from: Madi on Sep 25, 04:35 PM 2018
General,
1. Its not the 4 top number througout the full session. Here goes the lack of seriousness.

2. Wrong again. U must place higher calculated stake on a number once it hit, not before that.  Any player can have reasonable drawdon even you can have and definitely do have.

3. Making fun is ok when u dont get it properly

Madi,

He still chases the losses with the progression.  Regardless, that part of it doesn't matter and it has no effect on the long term edge.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 25, 05:01 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 25, 04:57 PM 2018
Madi,

He still chases the losses with the progression.  Regardless, that part of it doesn't matter and it has no effect on the long term edge.


General

U cant say a normal drawdown as a loss. Its just a part of the process. U can say loss once total br finished
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Nimo on Sep 25, 05:02 PM 2018
Quote from: Madi on Sep 25, 04:35 PM 2018
General,
1. Its not the 4 top number througout the full session. Here goes the lack of seriousness.

2. Wrong again. U must place higher calculated stake on a number once it hit, not before that.  Any player can have reasonable drawdon even you can have and definitely do have.

3. Making fun is ok when u dont get it properly


Don't bother with them Madi.  They couldn't figure it out if you spelled it out for them in crayon. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 05:05 PM 2018
Quote from: Madi on Sep 25, 05:01 PM 2018

General

U cant say a normal drawdown as a loss. Its just a part of the process. U can say loss once total br finished

Madi,

If a system doesn't have an edge without a progression then it won't have one with a progression.  I know that may seem ironic, but it's just a fact.  To conceptualize it, think of it like this, what number can you multiply times a negative one and produce a positive amount?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Nimo on Sep 25, 05:07 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 25, 05:05 PM 2018
Madi,

If a system doesn't have an edge without a progression then it won't have one with a progression.  I know that may seem ironic, but it's just a fact.  To conceptualize it, think of it like this, what number can you multiply times a negative one and produce a positive amount?

Turbo's system works flatbet.  Progression is only used to magnify results.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 05:14 PM 2018
Quote from: Nimo on Sep 25, 05:07 PM 2018
Turbo's system works flatbet.  Progression is only used to magnify results.

Nimo,

Why SHOULD it work?  Explain some logical reasons as to why it should over come the house edge...if you can.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Nimo on Sep 25, 05:19 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 25, 05:14 PM 2018
Nimo,

Why SHOULD it work?  Explain some logical reasons as to why it should over come the house edge...if you can.

I can't explain much without revealing  it, and that is something I said I would not do as its not mine to share.  I can tell you, once you do know it, all those sayings of Turbo, make complete sense.  Just have to think a lot differently than you are ingrained and learned how to think about roulette.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 05:22 PM 2018
Quote from: Nimo on Sep 25, 05:19 PM 2018
I can't explain much without revealing  it, and that is something I said I would not do as its not mine to share.  I can tell you, once you do know it, all those sayings of Turbo, make complete sense.  Just have to think a lot differently than you are ingrained and learned how to think about roulette.

Nimo,

I FULLY understand his system.  There's nothing secretive about it.  I know it well.  There's nothing new or secretive whatsoever about chasing hot numbers.  It's not original, it's not even Turbo's idea. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 25, 05:30 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 25, 05:22 PM 2018
Nimo,

I FULLY understand his system.  There's nothing secretive about it.  I know it well.  There's nothing new or secretive whatsoever about chasing hot numbers.  It's not original, it's not even Turbo's idea.

General

We already seen that u dont even understand the first line.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 05:34 PM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/25/source.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tgaBg)

Here's his system simulated using the top three over 30k spins.  Basically this is betting every number that is just one two hits above expectation in a 38 spins horizon.   Single zero wheel.  As you can see, it's close to random expectation.

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/25/source5df69.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tgbkV)

Here's his system betting every number that's just one hit over expectation.

Guys, you can try this a gazillion different ways with a gazillion different horizon models but there results will always be close to expectation when bet on an RNG game.  Turbo attempted to play the secret squirrel game after we placed him in checkmate by proving that his system didn't work.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 25, 05:35 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 25, 02:03 PM 2018
I will in a while.  I've got to go out and water my pumpkin plants.

General,

Is that true “empty drum noise louder”
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 25, 05:46 PM 2018
General

Both of your simulation were done with incorrect betting rule. It is neither top 3 nor all number above expection
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 05:49 PM 2018
Quote from: Madi on Sep 25, 05:46 PM 2018
General

Both of your simulation were done with incorrect betting rule. It is neither top 3 nor all number above expection

No, they're correct.  You're just not comprehending what I've written or the simulations.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 25, 06:03 PM 2018
General

If these are your setting parameter then i got nothing to say.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 06:53 PM 2018
The only relevant boxes are:

The one that says hits above expectation "1"

and the box that states the horizon as "38".

The other boxes are not applicable or being utilized in any way.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Madi on Sep 25, 07:07 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 25, 06:53 PM 2018
The only relevant boxes are:

The one that says hits above expectation "1"

and the box that states the horizon as "38".

The other boxes are not applicable or being utilized in any way.

At least horizon not correct.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 07:10 PM 2018
Ok then what horizon would you like to see?  Pick a number 0 to 30k.

I can run anyway you would like.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Nimo on Sep 25, 08:31 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 25, 05:22 PM 2018
Nimo,

I FULLY understand his system.  There's nothing secretive about it.  I know it well.  There's nothing new or secretive whatsoever about chasing hot numbers.  It's not original, it's not even Turbo's idea.

Turbo\s method isn't what you think.  What you posted in your simulations is nothing like what he does.

Here is a modified version of what Turbo is doing.  It fits in with his bring $1000 to win a $1000.  It's repeating numbers as they become hot, not the hottest. 
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/25/source9559a.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tgC0t)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 08:56 PM 2018
Same thing.

You posted 39 spins, but I posted 30k.  ::)

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Nimo on Sep 25, 09:03 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 25, 08:56 PM 2018
Same thing.

You posted 39 spins, but I posted 30k.  ::)

Bring a $1000 to win $1000.  I guess you skim over details in everything.  Also if I kept going for 30k spins the profit amount would be north of $1,000,000
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 09:06 PM 2018
Quote from: Nimo on Sep 25, 09:03 PM 2018
Bring a $1000 to win $1000.  I guess you skim over details in everything.  Also if I kept going for 30k spins the profit amount would be north of $1,000,000


Where do you feel my details are wrong?

I'll tell you where you're wrong.

1. You're running a progression.
2. You've only run 39 spins.

What part of Canada did you say you were in?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Nimo on Sep 25, 09:15 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 25, 09:06 PM 2018

Where do you feel my details are wrong?

I'll tell you where you're wrong.

1. You're running a progression.
2. You've only run 39 spins.

What part of Canada did you say you were in?

I said it was a modified version, yes a limited progression.  You went wrong thinking its always the hottest numbers.  I didn't tell you where I live. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 25, 09:18 PM 2018
Quote from: Nimo on Sep 25, 09:15 PM 2018
I said it was a modified version, yes a limited progression.  You went wrong thinking its always the hottest numbers.  I didn't tell you where I live.

Nimo,

Turbo's method is based on hot numbers.  He uses the term repeaters, but he's not really referring to repeats as most people think of them. 

Regarding Canada, I'm always trying to get Intel from various locations.  Besides, I thought you were wanting to show off your sports betting place.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Nimo on Sep 26, 04:20 AM 2018
Quote from: The General on Sep 25, 09:18 PM 2018
Nimo,

Turbo's method is based on hot numbers.  He uses the term repeaters, but he's not really referring to repeats as most people think of them. 

Regarding Canada, I'm always trying to get Intel from various locations.  Besides, I thought you were wanting to show off your sports betting place.

I live in Ontario.  Sure come on by, send me your name and address in a pm, I'll have my lawyers draw up a confidentiality contract as well as have you investigated so that I know I'm not dealing with a serial killer or something .  As for giving you intel about wobbly wheels, I'm not a errand boy. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Sep 28, 11:07 PM 2018
Notto,

about what I told you: pondering the rank of the nrs and removing nrs after a repeat.

If started at spin 2 with 35nrs, don't play ranks 1 and 2, so basically the two last nrs.  If losing on a repeater, stay at same nrs.  If a repeater comes that has a higher rank than played, consider to have shed this one away and won.  Remove then a nr.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/29/source2bc0d.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/t81ni)


Did not test yet with different starting spins, used only +1/-1 prog. Still, promising.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Sep 28, 11:28 PM 2018
Oups, erratum...

Rather this one here:
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/29/sourcedd198.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/t8ASA)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 29, 05:15 AM 2018
This game 29-09-18 is in Turbo un-marked but could see the 36*1,5,25 wins at spin 21.
Now about the non-hit, which KTF has shown me how to see the trot.
Collecting plenty of data, be it airball,RNG, live or even FOBT's in UK betting shop; the 15 non-hit in spins 11-40 is on all.
The part i don't use the math correctly is to round down the (link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/29/source39e21.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/t8p4p) to 24 non-hit over the 40 spins; so over spins 11-40 we should say 16 non-hit in spins 11-40:

So here is some data on YES random.org that the expert tells you to use and on the Great MPR

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/29/sourcefd41b.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/t8uy0)
So the data speaks for its self.
Oh yes there's always 1 or 2 pockets too many

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/09/29/source4616d.jpg) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/t8ISH)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: bigmoney on Sep 29, 07:05 AM 2018
awesome tenacity shown here....despite all the naysayers and keyboard warriors .
well done notto
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Sep 29, 04:54 PM 2018
.. and when you just end up losing money, you'll begin to wonder maybe those naysayers had a point.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Sep 29, 04:59 PM 2018
Quote from: Steve on Sep 29, 04:54 PM 2018
.. and when you just end up losing money, you'll begin to wonder maybe those naysayers had a point.

or maybe not
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Sep 29, 05:03 PM 2018
But for some odd reason it doesn't work on the MPR.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Sep 29, 05:05 PM 2018
You already know the result from mpr. Youre misleading people and wasting their time and money by showing them a few charts with wins. You don't show the bigger picture.

The noobs are too naive and inexperienced to understand the naysayers arent the ones with the problem.

.. and caleb and I are the bad guys for explaining it  :question:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: bigmoney on Oct 01, 12:52 AM 2018
notto
dont worry theres heaps of cash to b made outta ktf ...dont worry about the naysayers ...they are just jealous of your brilliance
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Oct 01, 05:13 PM 2018
Notto

I'm a long time reader of this forum, second time contributor.

KTF is great Notto! I have just started using it. I'm using  software called Roulette Key Gold to keep track of the sleepers.

Thanks for sharing  :)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 01, 07:49 PM 2018
jono1167
The countback helps
link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=17112.msg210394;topicseen#msg210394

And averages that can be seen in link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=20764.0
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Oct 01, 07:53 PM 2018
Notto

You have done great work with this. Great explanations. Great sheets. More proof than we’d ever need

I don’t care too much about what the naysayers say, I don’t believe they even understand the method or have even read it

They just have the knee jerk it can’t work response

If it failed in a million spins? I wouldn’t care. You win with it everyday lol
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Oct 01, 09:02 PM 2018
KTF is interesting: it wins most of the time.  You can win 100 times in row.  There is still this one time where it fails and it then erases all the previous gains.
It is the variance that kills it.
The averages are there, they give an indication.  Just like there is an average of 1 high for 1 low: normally a Martingale would make it a winner, but then, once, it crashes real quick.  Variance is the hammer.

I have yet to find a way to reduce exposure to headwinds: averages are what they are, averages.
Perhaps letting an average game go on and let profits rise while they are there, instead of stopping at +50.  Use relative stop-loss, like 100u below maximum; cap progression during bad streaks, stop at prog-level X, switch to repeaters at some trigger point ...  ideas?

There is still this one time where -5000u is attained and there is no turning back. 

Notto, I have vor to integrate 36*1-5-25 with KTF, just little time available lately.  Will keep in touch.

Keep The Faith !!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Oct 02, 01:49 AM 2018
Thanks Notto - that will come in handy.

I'll try to collect data on 100 games. However many spins that ends up being.... In a few weeks time I will post results.

So far I like it.... I'll put a common sense stop/loss in place and see how it goes.

Thanks again
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 02, 05:33 AM 2018
This is a Good set of spins, the non-hits do exactly what they should, as they are the larger group, if you want to believe what the 1/37 brigade say, then read no more.
You see it started with the common 9/10; a repeat.
You can see spins 11-20; 7,+2 the average for non-hits at this point of the 40 spins.
If you just KTF’d then you be +56
So now wait till spin 20 then use the 36*1,5,25 another 12 units.
Why, not re-set.

Forgot these yesterday from jackpot247.com airball, i'm behind as have rheumatoid arthritis and joints are playing up

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/10/02/source.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tvTwK)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Oct 02, 06:21 AM 2018
This is a fast game, it happens more often than you might think; (didn’t someone bet for repeat in back to basic thread) so just right for winning a bucket of KFT; +55 units.
Now during any game you need to know what non-hits can do, so see/find how they come, find there averages to hit. Know there max to hit. It’s all on here in the non-hit time table.
So what’s happening here, the non-hit the larger group are doing what is expected, don’t the 1st 19 0x’s, have an average to hit, of 2 spins?
If you use KTF you’ve won the 50/+50
If you are just watching the spins it’s not all over, you have not missed the boat.
What does Winkel say about the crossing 19/18
So you’ve waited, you’ve seen the even distribution of 5 non-hits, you now have seen the usual for spins 11-20, the 7,+2, the alarm bells should be ringing, repeats must be coming. What are the most consecutive non-hits you’ve seen or read on here, 25 I’ve read, so could you bet for repeats?
After spin 17 has come and you chicken out of betting for repeat, then you are carrying on watching; spin 18 another non-hit, it now leaves the crossing of 19 non-hits and 18 one hits, what are you advised to do, leave this grossing alone, but why would you here, surely you could bet for the 18, 1x’s to repeat. 
So you see you must always be thinking and watching for the opportunity for a bet/gamble.

Now I’ve been asked when would I re-set for 36*1,5,25 straight after the win at spin 22, +32
What has just happened 0x v1x’s, big time and 0x have been winning, aren’t those 1x’s going to have the potential, to keep going, too R1’s.
If you carried on and re-set, but carry on with the 2,R1’s you would win at spin 35,+300 but you’d been betting 10 R1’s as there was plenty of 1x’s wasn’t there.  Why risk it?

Todays J247 #'s on the above

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/10/02/source9b46f.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/tvFdB)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 05, 05:12 PM 2018
Hi there.

I read a lot about the KTF system, I saw that the topic had around 118 pages. Can someone a little bit clarify how to play this system?

I saw well, that Notto a little bit modified the KTF and you has a different version? Can you please tell us how to play with your version? I am curious of it, anyway well done, its looks like a very profitable system. I think the both.

Thanks.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 05, 07:55 PM 2018
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 05, 05:12 PM 2018
Hi there.

I read a lot about the KTF system, I saw that the topic had around 118 pages. Can someone a little bit clarify how to play this system?

I saw well, that Notto a little bit modified the KTF and you has a different version? Can you please tell us how to play with your version? I am curious of it, anyway well done, its looks like a very profitable system. I think the both.

Thanks.

Hi Mister Eko

I have been playing KTF the way Notto suggested. I believe the method is quite simple. Complete 10 spins and then bet on the un-hit numbers. With a single zero wheel, your first bet (with no repeats) will be 27 units.

My first bet is generally 27 or 28 units, occasionally 29 units (depending on repeats).  If you have a loss, add +1 unit. When you have a win, you go down a unit.

I've noticed Notto generally cashes out around 50 units, but it's up to you. Hopefully I have described the basic rules correctly, if not, please let me know.

Notto has published a lot of charts on this thread, make sure you have a good look at these. They will  tell you everything you need to know about how the game ebbs and flows.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Dec 05, 08:16 PM 2018
It’s certainly a decent method

Winning days far outweigh the losing days

The problem is it’s not playable on a live wheel

Airball it may be. I haven’t tested on airball. Only on paper.

If you are quick enough to get down 27 bets on airball then this can be good.

Provided airball wheels are fair. No one knows if that’s the case.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 05, 08:58 PM 2018
Agreed Roulette Ghost, you couldn’t play this on a live wheel, even if you were quick enough you would eventually make a mistake.

Mister Eko - when you look at Nottos charts, you will notice he writes KTF in one of the columns. This is where he stops betting.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 06, 02:02 AM 2018
Good morning, thanks for the replies guys.

My first test was extremely good. I went up from 200 units to 711 under around 150-200 spins. This was around 20-30 comppete session with 30-50 session wingoals, what you recommended in ktf charts. I was guys so happy that I founded the HG, that I opened another testing session, and I said, go.

I can say that roulette fckd up me three from 5 sessions.

The problem what I saw, is that ehen I had example 9/10 or 10/10, in the 11-20 section came up for me 3-4 repeaters, and then I cant correct from such a big drowdown. At 21-30 section came up another 3-5 repeaters, and it could kill 400-500 euro bankroll. It happened me three times in 5 session.

Then I gave up a little bit.

How about your playing style with this? Are you playing ktf still?

Or the cousin wtf or gut? Can I ask how these 2 system works ? Just a basic idea, like jono said before, for me is enough to understand.

Big thanks guys.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Dec 06, 02:36 AM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 05, 08:16 PM 2018Winning days far outweigh the losing days

So if you played perfectly, your bankroll would just keep growing?

Or does it mostly have winning days with the problem being the losing days wipe you out?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 06, 06:43 AM 2018
Sorry Mister Eko, as strong as KTF is, you should have a stop loss in place. Runs of repeats do happen. My stop loss is 200 units.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Dec 06, 09:38 AM 2018
Like anything a proper stop loss makes all the difference. In stocks as well.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Dec 06, 10:12 AM 2018
Stocks and roulette are quite different. A stop loss in roulette wont help at all, unless you are playing perhaps once in your life.

You could stop, right before a big winning streak. Or you could stop before average results occur. Or even further big losses occur. There are many possibilities. Stop loss is useless. You either have an edge or you dont.

If you have no edge, the chances are any further play means more loss. If you have an edge, chances are further play means more profit.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Let Me Win on Dec 06, 10:31 AM 2018
The entire method is completely rediculious as it's based on waiting for 'triggers' or numbers to repeat.

If you can't grasp that history has not and could not have any possible baring on the result of the next spin then you have to be of incredibly low intelligence.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Winner on Dec 06, 10:54 AM 2018
Conclusion nothing works most of the systems on forums are good for LUNCH money.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Dec 06, 11:13 AM 2018
I will have to disagree that a stoploss in roulette is pointless

If you have a 50 unit stop loss on a method that wins 100 units more often then losing 50 well then.......
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 06, 11:42 AM 2018
Agree.

Some one playing ktf, gut, or wtf with success until now?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 06, 02:41 PM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 06, 11:13 AM 2018
I will have to disagree that a stoploss in roulette is pointless

If you have a 50 unit stop loss on a method that wins 100 units more often then losing 50 well then.......
Agree Roulette Ghost. It seems to be working for me.

Recording game 81 this morning. Looking forward to posting the results of 200 games in the next two or three months.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 06, 03:11 PM 2018
Hi Jono.

This is your own system, strategy, or your results will be about KFT?

Thanks.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 06, 03:42 PM 2018
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 06, 03:11 PM 2018
Hi Jono.

This is your own system, strategy, or your results will be about KFT?

Thanks.

This is 200 games of KTF. We can thank Notto for KTF :)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 06, 03:53 PM 2018
I also testing the KTF for a daily 10-20 sessions. If after the december will be profitable in January I will play with real money.

I also testing one another, but not a similar strategy. Very very promising until now. A daily 10 session, 2 days, +367 units. Stoploss -200, not reached yet. Still a very early stage, I willl test the whole december.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Dec 06, 04:02 PM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 06, 11:13 AM 2018
If you have a 50 unit stop loss on a method that wins 100 units more often then losing 50 well then......

Check your math because again stop loss is useless. Its not hard to win more units in a winning session, but win less frequently than you lose, and still be left at the house edge.

Stop loss gives the illusion of playing smart. Again you either have an edge or not.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Dec 06, 04:49 PM 2018
A stop loss is absolutely playing smart.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 06, 05:34 PM 2018
I just wanted to ask about the KFT, that when I want to play session after session immadiately, example session 1 was only 14 spins, do I have to wait another fresh 10 spins cycle, or can I continue immediately from spin 15 and count back the last 10 numbers? Or when my session is around 25-30 spins, the same question.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 06, 05:41 PM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 06, 04:49 PM 2018
A stop loss is absolutely playing smart.

Yes RG that was established during the replies. But the best comment was smart; it was suggested to take the 1st profit.
The best critic of KFC; supplied the star burst numbers and guess what, if you've looked thru generals numbers, taking 1st profit it's a winner.
That's from the most prolific naysayer of KTF.

Now collection of KTF spins built the jackpot 1000 games data showing non-hit averages.
If you've looked at Gzgzbee topic, you can see some times it ends 10/10 no repeat, but that repeat will come. The question is when.
Remember up to the 19th non-hit they have an average to hit of 2 spins.
Now I just watch the spins to see the TROT of the 1/37 spins and use that average in spins 11-20; plus the expected 3 repeats in 11-20; looking for a betting opportunity, be it either a non-hit or a repeat.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 06, 05:49 PM 2018
Mister Eko

When i use to play KTF just betting the non-hit after spin 10; as soon as a profit was made i moved to a new machine; 99% of my play is on FOBT's.

All I posted it for was to show how the larger group could give a 50; +50 profit quick.
Have you seen the average for repeats over the 40 spins its 1-3-5-7 and 30 repeats by spin 60 all shown in the non-hit time tables.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 06, 06:15 PM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 06, 05:41 PM 2018
Yes RG that was established during the replies. But the best comment was smart; it was suggested to take the 1st profit.
The best critic of KFC; supplied the star burst numbers and guess what, if you've looked thru generals numbers, taking 1st profit it's a winner.
That's from the most prolific naysayer of KTF.

Now collection of KTF spins built the jackpot 1000 games data showing non-hit averages.
If you've looked at Gzgzbee topic, you can see some times it ends 10/10 no repeat, but that repeat will come. The question is when.
Remember up to the 19th non-hit they have an average to hit of 2 spins.
Now I just watch the spins to see the TROT of the 1/37 spins and use that average in spins 11-20; plus the expected 3 repeats in 11-20; looking for a betting opportunity, be it either a non-hit or a repeat.

Taking first profit is interesting. Assuming you don't have any repeats, that would mean taking 7, 8 or 9 units of profit. A very conservative approach.

Over the past 81 games, I have been happy to cash out with 20 or 30 units, often less. Occasionally I stick around for the 50 units.

When I hit 50 units of profit, it's generally on the back of a perfect game. A perfect game consists of 5 spins for 5 straight wins. Depending on how many repeats are recorded in the first 10 spins, you will take between 45 and 55 units.

Notto, over 81 games, I have recorded 23 perfect games (5 spins - 5 wins).
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 06, 06:24 PM 2018
Mister Eko
I just played these #'s on MPR, downtown and hogly are on as well.

These are for the 1 repeat in 1st 10 spins
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/06/source1b906.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/FpJvF)

So you see the 9/10 happened
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 06, 06:25 PM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 06, 05:49 PM 2018
Mister Eko

When i use to play KTF just betting the non-hit after spin 10; as soon as a profit was made i moved to a new machine; 99% of my play is on FOBT's.

All I posted it for was to show how the larger group could give a 50; +50 profit quick.
Have you seen the average for repeats over the 40 spins its 1-3-5-7 and 30 repeats by spin 60 all shown in the non-hit time tables.

Can I know, that what does FOBT mean?

The 1 3 5 7 sequence is the avarage of repeaters in 40 spins, but not always will be so basic and balanced this 40 spins. Many times under testing I saw example 2 3 6 4 or 3 4 3 7 or 3 2 5 5 occasions.

Maybe thats because I played session after session immadiately, so I did not waited fresh 10, possibly 20 spins after one session to jist refresh the numbers and the table.

Is this happening? Refreshing the table?

My main question: Have I wait fresh spins after one session or its okey to play immediately and coint back 10 numbers?

Thanks for the answer.

Eko
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 06, 06:27 PM 2018
Quote from: jono1167 on Dec 06, 06:15 PM 2018Taking first profit is interesting. Assuming you don't have any repeats, that would mean taking 7, 8 or 9 units of profit. A very conservative approach.

Yes Jono; but that approach on the generals posted numbers, wins.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 06, 06:30 PM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 06, 06:24 PM 2018
Mister Eko
I just played these #'s on MPR, downtown and hogly are on as well.

These are for the 1 repeat in 1st 10 spins
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/06/source1b906.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/FpJvF)

So you see the 9/10 happened

The perfect game Notto.... Always good when they happen!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 06, 06:52 PM 2018
Yes Jono, even better when on the Generals gold standard THE MPR.

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/06/sourceefd50.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/Fph6i)

The above is what you have to work with. This is from the Generals posted spins.
Average to hit is same in the time tables; it's each non-hit's max spin to bare in mind.

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/06/source740a2.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/FpiDA)

1000 games and the average to hit is same. Look at 11th non-hit Generals is max 4 small data base, but jackpot 1000 game the 11th non-hit is max 5

So if you play a watching game and see the 11th non-hit has missed for 2 spins, as Winkel say's it's decision time; look back have you had repeats before these 2 repeats, remember 9/10 that should be 1 repeat and 3 more expected in spins 11-20 and then how many spins could you bet 27 #'s with your bank roll?

It's a thinking game, just take what you know with you.

But expect to hear there's just 1 pocket to0 many and 1/37
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 06, 06:53 PM 2018
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 06, 06:25 PM 2018
Can I know, that what does FOBT mean?

The 1 3 5 7 sequence is the avarage of repeaters in 40 spins, but not always will be so basic and balanced this 40 spins. Many times under testing I saw example 2 3 6 4 or 3 4 3 7 or 3 2 5 5 occasions.

Maybe thats because I played session after session immadiately, so I did not waited fresh 10, possibly 20 spins after one session to jist refresh the numbers and the table.

Is this happening? Refreshing the table?

My main question: Have I wait fresh spins after one session or its okey to play immediately and coint back 10 numbers?

Thanks for the answer.

Eko

Eko. I think FOBT is a 'fixed odds betting terminal'. Its like a poker machine that lets you play roulette.

I only play one or two sessions a day. I never play continuously. Theoretically counting back 10 numbers shouldn't matter. However, I would do whatever Notto suggests. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 06, 08:07 PM 2018
Okey, I had I think a little bit better results with fresh 10 spins.

But I am curious how Notto plays this system. A saw her papercards was writen 1-10 9\10 10-21 etc . I know that these are avarages and 1 3 5 7 avarages in 10 spinc cycles in 40 spins but how you manage the sessions Notto via based on these informations?

Can you pleaase post one full explained little gameplay, how you play exactly?

MrEko
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 07, 03:05 AM 2018
link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=18360.0

Mr E

Do some homework; the above will help
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 07, 01:05 PM 2018
Thanks, I finished reading the whole topic, it was very informative, but I have some questions if you alowe.

1. So we expected to see in 1-10 spins 1 repeat, and 9 non-hits. In 11-20 we expected to see ( based on only avarages ) 3 repeats and 7 non hits, am I right? In 21-30 5 repeats and 5 non hits and in 31-40 7 repeats and only 3 non hits?


2. If I read well, why are your sheets shows 7+2 in 11-20 section? We expected to see 7 non hits in section 11-20 not 5, hasnt we ? Why is +2?

3. So what is the 11-40 5-5-5 exactly?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Dec 07, 01:13 PM 2018
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 07, 01:05 PM 2018
2. If I read well, why are your sheets shows 7+2 in 11-20 section? We expected to see 7 non hits in section 11-20 not 5, hasnt we ? Why is +2?
3. So what is the 11-40 5-5-5 exactly?

I think the 5-5-5 was the 15 repeats splitted equally in the 30 spins from 11-40.  Correct me if I'm wrong, Notto, but I think the sheet was created to show the difference between the average 5-5-5 and the hits per 10-spin slices.
Since then, it was realized the averages were more like 3-5-7 from 11 to 40.  My guess is the sheet dates a bit and could be updated.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 07, 02:05 PM 2018
Thanks man, so I thought well  :thumbsup:

Also I played my first game, +26 units.

Here is the picture.

I expected t o see 1-3-5-7 repeats ( R ), and 9-7-5-3 non-hits in 10 spin sequences from 1 to 40.

I had in first 10 8/10, I later wrote a little bit different than you, but you will udnerstand perfectly I think, Notto mate. I bet only twice, but I felt t hat I would 2 or 3 times , but it was my first game only in RX and I did not dare. I marked with *, when I did betting (after number 7 -> for repeaters, because I expected to see 2 more repeats in 4 spins. First no hit, no needed progression, so flatbet, secondly win +10. Second bet was in fourth ( last ) stage of the gameplay (31-40 ) , I bet repeaters too, after number 30, because I expected to see only 2 more non-hits in 9 spins, so 7 repeaters. Firstly win, +16, summarize this session was for me +26 units. My bankroll is 200, so my stoploss is 200 too. A little bit short was the winnings, but it was so easy to follow, and I hope if only every cycle of 40 spins (session) would be such avarage, and post avarage repeats and non-hits in every 10 spin, and easy, like this.

I like this managering our gameplays. Like in football match. You are your own team manager, and if you only have one playing style against thousands of tactics (in roulette situations) you will definitely lose I think. We must manage every session, gameplays based on the situations what roulette gives us in every cycle.

A little bit problem can be at playing online example with live dealer, or at casino on airball, that we must decide very very quickly, and maybe we wont have time to bet all numbers, what we want.

*My other question is that what is the aavrage sessions of 40 spin cycles, what give us the same avarage numbers of repeats and non hits  in 10 spin sequences? So example from 100 gameplays how much add this avarage numebrs in 40 spin cycles (10-20-30-40) ?*

Am I did well, or something opinion about it masters ( Notto + others ) ? :)

MR.EKO
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 07, 02:14 PM 2018
Here is the #1 session
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 07, 02:51 PM 2018
My second session.
+55 units.

Avarages 10/9, 2/-1, 5/+0, 7/+0. 15 repeats 25 non hits in 40 spins, still good avarage, perfect game.

I were betting 5 times now. Firstly at spin 17 I went for non hits, cause I expected to see one more in last 3 spins. I sant to bet after number 24, but I forgot, my mistake, dont care, hit firstly. Second time I bet at spin 21, because in 1-20 I saw only 3 repeats. My progression was +1 up if lose, win on third spin, so I was only +0, overall +14. I bet immediately for repwat, because I rhought they will come, and I had right, win in first spin., than 2 more R come, and the last was R too. Fourth bet was at spin 31, I still wanted repeaters, in the last stage I expected to see 8 Rs, and only 2 non hits, so this was the right times to catch up Rs, especially wen first spin was non hit. The right decision was to bet for R. Win in first spin. The I wait two spins, and I exp to see another Rs. And comed for me. Another one winning in first spin. Ending with +55 units.

Thanks.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 07, 02:55 PM 2018
Mr E
Can you type the #'s and i'll show you a bit more to help watch the TROT
I got
19
9
0
1
0
16
not sure next number; typed would help :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 07, 03:19 PM 2018
3 29 16 15 ;)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 07, 03:33 PM 2018
Anyway session #3.
+77 units  :o

See the attachment. Atart with 1R and 9N, than only +1R at spin 14. I decided to go one R after another 3 non hits, [ maybe in the start of the game we had to go for non hits?  :question: ... ) .. so in spin 17 I had only 2 R ,i expectsd to see in last 3 spins another R. My progression was if lose +1, I won at spin 3, +18 units. Second bet in stage 3after one repeat and one non hit, I definitely went flr more R. And see: they came. 5 in a row! Then I expected to see one non hits after 6 Rs , so bet on non hits, and wow, another win at first spin. In the last stage I exp to see 5R and 5N. The first 6 spin was 4R and 2N , so I definitely went for non hits based on last 16 spin was 12. Repeat and only 4 non hitsy and I waited in last 4 spins one non hit number. Second spin won. I finished the session with +77 units.

3 session/3 win = +158 units.

Thanks for watching.

One question to Notto. Is these avarages works only for RNG? In b and m or in airball doesnt?? Thanms very much fkr the answer and for everything mate. Can I send you an email?🙄:)

MrE
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 07, 03:59 PM 2018
Mr E

could you type the 40 #'s for seession 1
Thanks.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 07, 04:17 PM 2018
Of course.

19
9
0
1
0
16
3
29
16
15
----
24
1
17
35
27
7
21
15
29
27
-----
5
21
8
25
24
24
23
7
33
5
-----
30
24
25
32
1
23
30
35
6
15


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 07, 05:17 PM 2018
Games #4 and #5.

Profit +46 and +31, but the last game was a little bit difficult, but still a good profit.

So how I played the game 5#

Firt 10 spin was 7R and 3N, so a little bit worry, but no problem, I said, I will manage to win my team 🤫 so I expected to hit some non hits first spin win. Then in spin 16 I had only 4 non hits in 11-20 cycle , I bet on non hits again, win kn second spin, so break even. Again bet non hits, again second spin, again break even, maybe a very little down.
3 stage [21-30] : spin 25, bet on non hits again, because I only had 3, and the avarage showed us 5, so i expected to see in last 5 spins 2 non hits, and voala, win on first spin. The last stage showed us to see 4R and 6N. At spin 37 I had 4R, and 2N, yes the avarage showed us tk see 7R and 3N in the last stage, so 1 non hits missed for me in the last 3 spins. Win on second spin, and the last spin was non hit too 😊

Profit: +31

5 session/5 session won
Profit: +235

And I never went under 200 euro in 200 spins. Just up. Definitely I will and I will lose session, but this managering is promisible.

Again thanks for great Nottorius.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 07, 05:21 PM 2018
Here is the sheet showing countback. Countback shows where the average 15 non-hit's could hit. So a normal game should give 5-5-5; but from collections of games with 60 spins or more it shows the average is more like 7-5-3 non-hits over spins 11-40.

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/07/source290a5.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/FL1E1)

So the Gzgzbee topic wins with 4#'s giving a repeat; so it's stop see out the 10 spins, as 9/10 is most common; that 1 repeat.
It's 8/10; now you add the 15 non-hit in the countback columns; so at spin 39/40 you expect to see 23 non-hit's. You see it ends 14; -1; 1 short for the average 15 non-hit's.

Now the curve fitting for the General. We expect 1 repeat in spins 1-10; we've got 2 repeats, no prob's.

So you now make a choice to bet for a non-hit or sit out and watch the trot of the 1/37 spin. The non-hit is on time, so it's watch; repeat. Now you got to make a decision, non-hits up to the 19th non-hit average to hit in 2 spins, also you know by 20th spin could or should have 4 repeats for the spins 1-20; we've already got 3 repeats.

So you could sit out to see if repeats, if you do that's no problem. You keep in mind the average is 5non-hit in spins 11-20; but 7 is more likely.
You now see the 13th the 5th non-hit to countback is way early. So repeats are needed to slow the non-hit's down.

This is how the 1/37 spin is showing against countback.

Spin's 11-20 ends 6,+1,  1 more non-hit on the even distribution of 5-5-5
Spins 21-30 we can say it's a 50/50 section and it's now 11,+1, so 5 repeats and 5 non-hit.

Now this is repeat area, the usual is 3 non-hit so watch countback, think average to hit.

These help, link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=20764.0
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 07, 06:24 PM 2018
Thanks for the reply Notto. I sent you one message with important questions 😊

I think its very promising this repeats and non hits gamemanaging.

Also my games #6 and #7.

Profits +98, and +49.

See in the attachement. If you have quesrions, just ask, or send me a PM. If you wanna learn, just ask, or send me a PM. If you did not care my games, and that I am posting, just say and I move on 😊

7 session
7 win
Profit: +382 units

MR.E
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 07, 06:39 PM 2018
You carry on the way you like.
But just watching is not costing, just watch how the non-hit come, best bit of kit is countback; better than LOTT as it shows where those averages should show. Not just whether 23-24 or 25 non-hits  average to come in 37 spins.



Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Dec 07, 07:42 PM 2018
What platform are you using to play
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Dec 08, 03:37 AM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 07, 06:39 PM 2018
You carry on the way you like.
But just watching is not costing, just watch how the non-hit come, best bit of kit is countback; better than LOTT as it shows where those averages should show. Not just whether 23-24 or 25 non-hits  average to come in 37 spins.



If you look closer at your stats you'll find that they're just as they should be, for a wheel that has too many pockets and a payoff that's short.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 08, 10:27 AM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 07, 07:42 PM 2018
What platform are you using to play


RNG, but I tested it with live spins. Game #8 was my best game (+115u), and then game #9 was the first little loss (-45u). Game #10 was -41 too, and game #11 +80u.


So overall until now:
11 session
9 won
Profit: +491u


Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 08, 11:33 AM 2018
This is the trot of your losing game after spin 10
Now go to the Generals starburst non-hit time table; you'll see that the non-hit's up to the 19th average to hit in 2spins.

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/08/sourceb1236.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/FJD9t)

Perfect to the 17th; but how many times could you bet 20 non-hit's more than 3 i'd hope, after that they average to hit in 3 spins up to say the 26th non-hit.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 08, 11:54 AM 2018
I think I know perfectly understood the trot meaning and that how to calculate it. Its based on how many spins we need from spin 10 to find non hits. Correct?

But what we have to do whit this information? How is it connect to our session, and bason on trot, how could we manage our gameplay to win every session?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Dec 08, 11:54 AM 2018
Observing the trot for the individual numbers is like observing the trot for the red and black and then proclaiming, " See 18/38!"  ::)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 08, 11:55 AM 2018
Quote from: The General on Dec 08, 11:54 AM 2018
Observing the trot for the individual numbers is like observing the trot for the red and black and then proclaiming, " See 18/38!"  ::)

So you do see The TROT be it on colour
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Robbert on Dec 08, 12:03 PM 2018
Alright, 121 pages. Can someone explane the rules for me?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Dec 08, 12:03 PM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 08, 11:55 AM 2018
So you do see The TROT be it on colour

Notto,

The LOTT is merely a loose description of how the numbers are distributed in the random game.

In short there are more ways for each number to hit 0,1,2,3 ..etc times than there are for each number to only hit once.  But it won't tell you which numbers you should bet on because each spin is an Independent event.

Here's what you guys are consistently missing.  You should be looking for what appears to be violations of the LOTT over larger samples like 380, 3800, and 38,000 spins.  Meaning examples where the distribution of the numbers hitting demonstrates too many hits for  fewer numbers.  In other words using the LOTT as a wheel fitness test to check for randomness, like using chi square. 

The way you guys are currently using it though is like using a gun as a hammer. ::)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 08, 12:09 PM 2018
So here are your opening 10 spins,  be good to see spin 11 repeat general then the 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-3 be +16
Now to some 15.7 non-hit should round to 16 non-hit over 30spins, but on more occasions it ends 15,+0; so i round down to get 15 non-hit in 30 spins, perfect, even if you go to 60 spins, non-hit usually account for 30 spins so the other 30 must be repeats.

So i've placed the expected 15 for you. Some games actually follow a perfect distribution of 5-5-5; but more often it's 7-5-3




(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/08/sourcef4d5f.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/FJPqc)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 08, 12:12 PM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/08/source37c38.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/FJjUa)

Put that in your cannon General; 7, +2 and look the openning 10 spins win +16 and spins 11-20 win with a repeat of those 10 spins
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Dec 08, 12:21 PM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 08, 12:12 PM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/08/source37c38.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/FJjUa)

Put that in your cannon General; 7, +2 and look the openning 10 spins win +16 and spins 11-20 win with a repeat of those 10 spins

And you find that impressive?
That's really no more relevant than if I were to bet just one spin and say, "See Notto.  I won!  Put that in your cannon!"  ::)  I suppose I should create a chart and a graph for the one spin too! :xd:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 08, 12:22 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Dec 08, 12:03 PM 2018
Notto,

The LOTT is merely a loose description of how the numbers are distributed in the random game.]

In short there are more ways for each number to hit 0,1,2,3 ..etc times than there are for each number to only hit once.  But it won't tell you which numbers you should bet on because each spin is an Independent event.

Here's what you guys are consistently missing.  You should be looking for what appears to be violations of the LOTT over larger samples like 380, 3800, and 38,000 spins.  Meaning examples where the distribution of the numbers hitting demonstrates too many hits for  fewer numbers.  In other words using the LOTT as a wheel fitness test to check for randomness, like using chi square. 

The way you guys are currently using it though is like using a gun as a hammer. ::)

I am not using LOTT.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 08, 12:23 PM 2018
that's not  impressive; that's bloody brilliant
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 08, 12:25 PM 2018
General i'm just getting some of your star burst spin averages so soon i'll show, if you know how non-hit can behave then prog's are ok.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Dec 08, 12:28 PM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 08, 12:25 PM 2018
General i'm just getting some of your star burst spin averages so soon i'll show, if you know how non-hit can behave then prog's are ok.

What averages would you like to see?  I already have them all, including the chi.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 08, 12:41 PM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/08/sourcef63b7.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/FJcXF)

Your piddly 10000 starburst spins broke into 185 spins giving 56 games.

So the 19th non-hit averages to hit in 2 spins; it's max is 6 spins, but on a small batch of spins.

How about 109673 spins from your praised Random.org; how does the 19th non-hit shape up

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/08/sourcec4870.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/FJqhi)

Still averages to hit in 2spins; but the max on the larger data has gone to 13.

What does airball show ?

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/08/sourcee58a7.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/FJ8sA)

What a surprise max 13 spins.

So knowing this helps me to watch how the non-hit are behaving
So why should i not win more than i lose
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 08, 12:42 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Dec 08, 12:28 PM 2018What averages would you like to see?
From you none, but thanks for offering
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 08, 12:57 PM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/08/source3adc9.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/FJkm7)

Here are next 10 spins . General you just seen we have a known average to hit and max for 19th non-hit.
At spin 20 non-hit are fast +2 to the even 5 non-hit's over the 30 spins 5-5-5

So we need the wheel as vaddi or someone say's to balance, slow the non-hit down, so we need repeats.
We see there happening and i'm a trot watcher, Like the great Winkel, he's crossings me just non-hit's.
Now that 18th non-hit is still making it fast, so i'd wait and see if we can get to the expected position of the 18th non-hit according to count back. We do i've spent nothing so won nothing but not lost nothing; but now i'd bet for the 19 th non-hit; takes 2 spins.

So you just keep using your antiquated method of finding defective wheels and i'll just watch the 1/37 trot
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 08, 01:02 PM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/08/source84437.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/FJoKQ)

So a fast start slowed by repeats, But after the 19th they avg: to hit in 3spins.

General you do it your way, but don't try and tell me how to play against the TROT; as you know i play 99% on uk FOBT's that use shit hot RNG and still i can make money from them.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 08, 01:04 PM 2018
But that's coming to an end soon; as max bet is going to be £2.00
Fucknose how you play for £2.00 betting non-hit.
But that's the snowflakes for you; suppose 60 mile round trips to B+M's is going to have too happen
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Dec 08, 01:19 PM 2018
Simply put, General cannot mentally handle, and becomes upset, at the idea of people successfully playing roulette if it isn’t his way.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Winner on Dec 08, 01:45 PM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 08, 01:19 PM 2018
Simply put, General cannot mentally handle, and becomes upset, at the idea of people successfully playing roulette if it isn’t his way.
[/quote
What is his way?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Dec 08, 01:53 PM 2018
Magic. Predicting where the ball will land

I call it hocus pocus
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 08, 01:59 PM 2018
Notto,

it was good countbacking, but in casino at airball within 30-60 seconds its quiet low time. Yes calculating and writing the TROT is not time, but can you post one gameplay from my uploaded games , how would you play a session number by number, spin by spin ?

So that how you utilize the TROT in sessions?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Dec 08, 05:23 PM 2018
Until you find a way to improve the accuracy of your predictions your method will perform no better than just guessing.
Systems like the LOTT/KTF/GUT are the results of a cover story invented by a couple of VB friends of mine to hide how they were really winning.
You're chasing a farce. 

QuoteJanuary 1982, when two gamblers
consistently won a lot of money at the
roulette tables of several casinos,
including the Rubicon Sporting Club.
When they were arrested for possessing
a sub-miniature radio link they claimed
to have invented an 'unheatable' system
for winning at roulette.
Having helped the police with their
inquiries for two days in the cells of a
Northampton Police Station, the gamblers
were rcleased and given the opportunity to
repeat their performance under close
supervision, but this time with no money
at stake. It was reported in the newspapers
at the time that the team picked the
winning number on average four out of
every five spins of the roulette wheel. The
pair insisted that their system was based
on complex mathematical workings.
TIle casino industly sought advice and
help from the leading casino equipment
manufacturer of the day, who directed thc
author [0 explain and to prove the success
of the 'unbeatable' system. To fulfil these
objectives the autilor devised several test
procedures fOl assessing roulette wheels
(If variolls style., and from several
manufacturers. The wheels were assessed
both mechanically and in lerms of their
behavior.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Dec 08, 05:34 PM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhostMagic. Predicting where the ball will land

I call it hocus pocus

The sting: did gang really use a laser, phone and a computer to take the Ritz for £1.3m?  link:s://:.theguardian.com/science/2004/mar/23/sciencenews.crime

----------------------------------------------------
Now the cover story regarding more on the LOTT and why so many system junkies create spin off systems based on it.

The two men were playing visual ballistics and were busted using while using a hidden communication device. (The device enabled the vb observer to discretely say the predicted number into the player’s ear so that he could then bet a 12 number section of the wheel.) (It was not a computer.) They had been winning quite a bit of money, all over Europe with their method. When interrogated by the police, the Polish member of the group, Paul Phillips, claimed to be a mathematical genius that had invented a method based on the “Phillip’s Law of The Third.” Of course, both the name of the man and the system were just a cover story for the visual ballistics.

After being arrested and spending the night in jail, the police chose to let them out of jail and offered them a chance to prove that they weren’t cheating by demonstrating their 12 number betting method. So they did, over five whole spins. LOL! When they hit three or four times, the casino and police were flabbergasted at their hit rate. (Keep in mind the police and gaming were basically as stupid and naive as they are now.) Consequently, reports of the law of the third’s success spread like wild fire! Everyone wanted in on the system. Even to this day people naively believe that the law of the third can win. All because of a cover story.

Of course, later on, people like Ron Shelly and George Melas came to realize what was really taking place. The men were visual ballistic/wheel watchers. They continued onward, making millions on their tour across Europe. As did some German teams. Their success led to the invention and production of the low profile wheel.

So their you have it. The GUT is a farce. It’s a built upon a cover story created by two clever visual ballistic players that made it popular back in 1982.

There you have it RouletteGhost.  Now, why don't you make another brilliant comment.  :twisted:

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Dec 08, 05:42 PM 2018
QuoteRouletteGhost-
Magic. Predicting where the ball will land

I call it hocus pocus



1. The sting: did gang really use a laser, phone and a computer to take the Ritz for £1.3m?  link:s://:.theguardian.com/science/2004/mar/23/sciencenews.crime

----------------------------------------------------
2.  Now the cover story regarding more on the LOTT and why so many system junkies create spin off systems based on it.

The two men were playing visual ballistics and were busted using while using a hidden communication device. (The device enabled the vb observer to discretely say the predicted number into the player’s ear so that he could then bet a 12 number section of the wheel.) (It was not a computer.) They had been winning quite a bit of money, all over Europe with their method. When interrogated by the police, the Polish member of the group, Paul Phillips, claimed to be a mathematical genius that had invented a method based on the “Phillip’s Law of The Third.” Of course, both the name of the man and the system were just a cover story for the visual ballistics.

After being arrested and spending the night in jail, the police chose to let them out of jail and offered them a chance to prove that they weren’t cheating by demonstrating their 12 number betting method. So they did, over five whole spins. LOL! When they hit three or four times, the casino and police were flabbergasted at their hit rate. (Keep in mind the police and gaming were basically as stupid and naive as they are now.) Consequently, reports of the law of the third’s success spread like wild fire! Everyone wanted in on the system. Even to this day people naively believe that the law of the third can win. All because of a cover story.

Of course, later on, people like Ron Shelly and George Melas came to realize what was really taking place. The men were visual ballistic/wheel watchers. They continued onward, making millions on their tour across Europe. As did some German teams. Their success led to the invention and production of the low profile wheel.

So their you have it. The GUT is a farce. It’s a built upon a cover story created by two clever visual ballistic players that made it popular back in 1982.

There you have it RouletteGhost.  Now, why don't you make another brilliant comment.  :twisted:


By the way, I can provide numerous casino investigations into losses involving predictive and bias wheel players.  Can you provide even one that involves a system involving the KTF, Trot, or any other system?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 09, 03:24 PM 2018
Notto

Thanks for sharing all of your KTF knowledge. It's great stuff and I'm working my way through it.

There a few people like myself who are the beneficiaries of your work. Cheers Notto.

Anyway, off to record game 82 of KTF.....

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 09, 04:32 PM 2018
I also want to thank you for your sharing and your advices Notto. Maybe we disclvered something different.

I continued it for my way, I also posted to here my playing way:

link:s://:.roulettelife.com/index.php?topic=2584.0
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Dec 09, 06:35 PM 2018
Quote from: jono1167 on Dec 09, 03:24 PM 2018
Notto

Thanks for sharing all of your KTF knowledge. It's great stuff and I'm working my way through it.

There a few people like myself who are the beneficiaries of your work. Cheers Notto.

Anyway, off to record game 82 of KTF.....

Are all 82 wins?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Dec 09, 06:47 PM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 09, 06:35 PM 2018
Are all 82 wins?

The correct question is on how many spins were bets placed?  Does it win flat betting?  And how many standard deviations above the norm are the results?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 09, 07:23 PM 2018
Roulette Ghost - No, they are not all wins. I have a stop loss in place which I have used a couple of times. I am left wondering if I had 'kept the faith', would I have got myself back in profit? Despite activating the stop-loss a couple of times, the wins far outnumber the losses.

General, I spin the wheel ten times and then I start betting the un-hit numbers. I keep betting until I am between 20 - 30 units in profit. After 82 games I have placed 701 bets. The lowest number of bets in a game is five - the perfect game (no repeats and a profit of between 45 - 55 units). The highest number of bets I have had for a single game is 24. On this particular game I got away with 39 units of profit.

I will post comprehensive results when I have completed 200 games. Who knows, the system might even fall over... I would be surprised though.

Sorry, I am only able to play one or two games a day so I am still a couple of months away from sharing results.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 09, 07:31 PM 2018
Sorry General, I use Notto's suggested progression +1 unit on a loss, -1 unit on a win.

Sorry, I don't understand your question about 'standard deviations above the norm'.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Dec 09, 07:34 PM 2018

If a system doesn't win flat betting, then it can't win in the long run with a progression.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: luckyfella on Dec 09, 07:37 PM 2018
Quote from: jono1167 on Dec 09, 07:23 PM 2018
Roulette Ghost - No, they are not all wins. I have a stop loss in place which I have used a couple of times. I am left wondering if I had 'kept the faith', would I have got myself back in profit? Despite activating the stop-loss a couple of times, the wins far outnumber the losses.

General, I spin the wheel ten times and then I start betting the un-hit numbers. I keep betting until I am between 20 - 30 units in profit. After 82 games I have placed 701 bets. The lowest number of bets in a game is five - the perfect game (no repeats and a profit of between 45 - 55 units). The highest number of bets I have had for a single game is 24. On this particular game I got away with 39 units of profit.

I will post comprehensive results when I have completed 200 games. Who knows, the system might even fall over... I would be surprised though.

Sorry, I am only able to play one or two games a day so I am still a couple of months away from sharing results.
This game as you describe it is a loser.

1000people play it at their casinos, some win some lose.
The sum total of all their games is a negative number.

It is not an opinion.
The roulette math of unfair payout makes this a loser.

Ofc you can post your 200 meaningless result out of the millions of results out there.

If you play it with the correct math, the best you get is breakeven itlr.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 09, 07:48 PM 2018
No worries - I'll keep going with the 200 games. Happy for it to fall over and will post the results either way.

Maybe I've just been incredibly lucky so far....   
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Dec 09, 08:12 PM 2018
There may be some derailing going on here

Let’s stay on topic of the system

Any other side topics on this and that can have their own threads.

Standard deviations and flat betting can have their own thread as this system is played with a +1/-1 progression

Some members not agreeing has no relevance.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: luckyfella on Dec 09, 09:21 PM 2018
Just to clarify my post that's not negative nor seek to derail this on-going discussion.

If I am not wrong either Jono or MisterEko(more likely) started a thread on another forum(I am not active) with his intention to seek input to help improve his method.

If he reads carefully my post above, he might find the help he seek.

Find the right conditions to win.
You have not thought through the math process thorough enough to find out why those other players, including yourself, in sum total lose that the casinos certainly win.

Nothing more to add.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Robbert on Dec 10, 07:33 AM 2018
What is the stoploss?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Robbert on Dec 10, 07:40 AM 2018
And for how many spins we play the +1 -1?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Shogun on Dec 10, 11:13 AM 2018
Quote from: Robbert on Dec 10, 07:40 AM 2018
And for how many spins we play the +1 -1?

Thanks in advance!

Until you reach your stop loss or win target.
Think Notto used -800 as a stop loss. Some used a more conservative -400 units.

Some aim for about + 50 target and some like to take the first win and start over  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Dec 10, 06:54 PM 2018
A winning system doesn't have a stop loss. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 10, 07:01 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Dec 10, 06:54 PM 2018
A winning system doesn't have a stop loss.


Sorry, but you says such a fckn bullshits that I just hold my head.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Dec 10, 07:17 PM 2018
“A winning system Doesn’t have a stoploss”

A truly asinine comment

It’s a negative expectation game. To prevent heavy losses a stop loss is the responsible thing to do

Caleb is talking about gaining an edge. Which is a horse he beats for decades. We aren’t talking about that.

A stop loss ensures the winning sessions overcome the losing sessions

It’s best for people to ignore him

Also, a winning system is relative. People consider different things a win. Some people take the first profit and do this daily and call it a winner. Caleb would say it’s a loser because you should be able to continuously play. It’s all relative and he is an idiot.

If I played a strategy once a day for first profit and quit I’d call it a winner. Steve and caleb would say not enough spins for their each individual agenda.



Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Dec 10, 07:23 PM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 10, 07:17 PM 2018A stop loss ensures the winning sessions overcome the losing sessions

A stop loss works...until you decide to return and gambler again, and again.

QuoteIt’s all relative and he is an idiot.

Psst..I know you're passionate about your views, but attack the message not the poster. 
For example you can say the comment is stupid, etc...but you don't want to call the poster stupid. :thumbsup: 



Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Dec 10, 08:55 PM 2018
Put any fixed goal, any fixed stoploss, any fixed progression and you'll have a negative result in the end.  Could stay positive for a hundred games, so 10 years if you play once per month, but the average of all possible outcomes is below zero.  True for ktf.   The more agressive the progression, the higher the percentage of won games.  But the deeper the losses.
That's it.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mako on Dec 10, 09:36 PM 2018
Quote from: Bigbroben on Dec 10, 08:55 PM 2018
Put any fixed goal, any fixed stoploss, any fixed progression and you'll have a negative result in the end.  Could stay positive for a hundred games, so 10 years if you play once per month, but the average of all possible outcomes is below zero.  True for ktf.   The more agressive the progression, the higher the percentage of won games.  But the deeper the losses.
That's it.

It has become an endless journey, trying to figure out a pathway that puts KTF into the positive...but so far, I haven’t been able to achieve it either.

It will behave for a long time, with unhits and/or repeats occurring at the predetermined timepoints, but outlier scenarios can and do occur and throw big monkey wrenches into the machine.

Yesterday I had a downloaded spin set from Wiesbaden Duisburg have a cycle where 29 uniques hit in a row. I just laughed at it, the insanity of that. And yes, if you bet repeats past that point you did well (though not as well as I would have expected).

Tough game, and KTF base principals are useful in learning how a cycle behaves...and how it doesn’t.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 10, 10:22 PM 2018
Quote from: Bigbroben on Dec 10, 08:55 PM 2018
Put any fixed goal, any fixed stoploss, any fixed progression and you'll have a negative result in the end.  Could stay positive for a hundred games, so 10 years if you play once per month, but the average of all possible outcomes is below zero.  True for ktf.   The more agressive the progression, the higher the percentage of won games.  But the deeper the losses.
That's it.

Really interesting to hear this Ben.... Trust me, I'm trying to break it. My stop-loss is 150 and I've activated it twice in 83 games.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 10, 10:32 PM 2018
Quote from: Mako on Dec 10, 09:36 PM 2018
It has become an endless journey, trying to figure out a pathway that puts KTF into the positive...but so far, I haven’t been able to achieve it either.

It will behave for a long time, with unhits and/or repeats occurring at the predetermined timepoints, but outlier scenarios can and do occur and throw big monkey wrenches into the machine.

Yesterday I had a downloaded spin set from Wiesbaden Duisburg have a cycle where 29 uniques hit in a row. I just laughed at it, the insanity of that. And yes, if you bet repeats past that point you did well (though not as well as I would have expected).

Tough game, and KTF base principals are useful in learning how a cycle behaves...and how it doesn’t.

Did you have a stop-loss Mako? Were you sticking around until you were 40 - 50 units in profit? I have been stopping my games when I'm 20 - 30 units in profit (on average). In games where there have been several repeats, I'm happy to cash out with a minuscule  profit (less than 5 units). 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Dec 10, 11:15 PM 2018
I realized there are almost two different ''schools'' on how to express a goal: to reach x units or to reach a first profit.

A x-unit goal is somewhat a personal point.  The other way: to take first profit could be a better expression applied to a game goal: 
-First profit?
-First.
- Well, how many are there anyways?
-Euh...

Here:
KTF flat.  Start to play with 35nrs.  Do it 20k times.
How many new highs will one get per game?  Around 10.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/11/source.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/FHonF)

Testing now with a game starting after 2nd repeater, so around spin 12.
7k so far.  Average is more like 6,5.
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/11/source1cbca.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/FHKEi)

You can't have 35 new highs: this would be a perfect game.  But you certainly can have more than one.  You could have 5 and not have attained the personal set goal.  But you'd know less than half of the runs make it past the x-nh mark.  How many nrs are left?  Lots to think about.

A good observation, decision, or guts, could help to know when to keep on going  and win-win-win, or when to stop losing.  I'm afraid though this can't be coded, or fix.




Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 11, 03:25 AM 2018
Quote from: Bigbroben on Dec 10, 08:55 PM 2018
Put any fixed goal, any fixed stoploss, any fixed progression and you'll have a negative result in the end.  Could stay positive for a hundred games, so 10 years if you play once per month, but the average of all possible outcomes is below zero.  True for ktf.   The more agressive the progression, the higher the percentage of won games.  But the deeper the losses.
That's it.

Then why we play roulette ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: luckyfella on Dec 11, 03:54 AM 2018
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 11, 03:25 AM 2018
Then why we play roulette ?
That's under the belt comment.

Posters like you give systems players a bad name.

Pls we may be systems players but we definitely are not stupid like you.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Mister Eko on Dec 11, 04:54 AM 2018
Why are you call me stupid ?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 11, 05:05 AM 2018
The last reply i saw was ghost's at 12:17 am
I was going to post something, but see it's been busy.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 11, 05:07 AM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/11/sourcef4fa2.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/F8x1f)

General
You seem to be the person stuck with the Law of the third.
All the LOTT does is tell a person that the average for 37 spins is 24 non-hit’s. Which is not really any help? It won’t show them where those 24 are going to hit, probably no method will or could.
But what you can do is watch the TROT of the non-hit.
Just watching the 1/37 spin as you and the other expert tell us won’t help either.
But what you need to have is some sort of time table; that D;Darko couldn’t grasp and also you; as well.
If you go to the non-hit time table topic; there’s your posted star burst spins. It show’s like the other time tables that the non-hit average to hit in 2 spins; up to the 19th non-hit.
Is that enough knowing average is 2 spins; answer no. You need to know their maximum to hit and these are in the non-hit time table.
Now the above is from the gold standard MPR that you praise so much, that’s using if correct, your gold standard Random.org numbers.
So you can see it’s a fast set of numbers; which I said to player Hogly; 25 spins and only 2 repeats. I even said to him when the next repeat happened.
Now I won on spin 20; as I was betting spins 1-10, that ended 10/10. Next I started to bet the hottest and won +232.
So you see some of us don’t stumble around, I for one can get out of that hole; using the knowledge of non-hit’s.
Now the one piece of info that is better than LOTT is countback.
Even you should be able to see that it show’s where the expected non-hit could hit. But you also have to know all about the non-hit and repeat and know where likely these repeat’s happen.
But everyone should remember it’s still a game of chance; unless you have technology that can predict; but this type of help is not allowed where I play in UK, B+M’s.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 11, 05:20 AM 2018
KTF is just bet straight after spin 10; betting with disregard of any methods you know; it’s just +1/-1.
But what you should do is gain some knowledge of non-hit.
To help I gave the non-hit time tables, one; even the Generals star burst.
I look at the game from the non-hit side, so with average of 2 spins, where’s the problem. I’ll tell you it’s how far your BR lets you bet them.
I’d say Mako’s consecutive is not out of the unusual, as you start with the larger group, these deplete making repeats more likely. But with 27 or 28 you are favourite to win; 5 consecutively you stop.  Remember Gut, spin 13; what’s happened in spins 1-10?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 11, 05:52 AM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/11/source9109b.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/F83ux)

That's 29 consecutive, +55 why carry on, General will say why stop, because the one hits need to repeat.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 11, 06:03 AM 2018
Before the posted MPR.
Here betting in spins 1-10 ended in profit
9-9-10L-10L-9-9-10-9-9-10L-10L-9-8-10L-7-9-9-9-8-9-9-8-9-10L-8-10L-9-9
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 11, 06:12 AM 2018
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/11/source.jpg) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/F8A8K)

Take the 1st 9-9; so spins 11-20; spin 16 you'd stop.

I don't know for the rest but i won and thats all that matters.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Dec 11, 06:34 AM 2018
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 11, 03:25 AM 2018
Then why we play roulette ?

Why do you buy a brand new car if you know you'll lose net worth with it?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 11, 04:24 PM 2018
More great info there. Thanks again Notto.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 12, 05:00 AM 2018
Jono

Look in ROTT
link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=18360.msg197590#msg197590
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 12, 06:01 AM 2018
Quote from: nottophammer on Dec 12, 05:00 AM 2018
Jono

Look in ROTT
link:s://:.rouletteforum.cc/index.php?topic=18360.msg197590#msg197590

More good info.... Will do.

Thanks Notto
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Dec 12, 09:37 AM 2018
Quote from: Robbert on Dec 10, 07:33 AM 2018
What is the stoploss?

If a game happens to be in negative territory, it is worth knowing if there is a potential of recovery.

The maximal possible units won is equal to 36x the nrs left(n) , minus its cost, so nrs left times its average:
(36-(average n) x n).  I do not include progressions in this scenario

Example:
There are 8 nrs left.  Maximum future winnings are:
(36-average(1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8))x8
So: (36-4.5)x8.  So a maximum of 252 units to come.  All the following losses will reduce this potential gain.

Now the question is: if it is calculated that a perfect end game ( all unhits hitting back to back) is not enough to recover from an actual deficit, is it worth pursuing the game?

Let's say this measurement would be the applied stop-loss: the point where it is mathematically impossible to recover in the game. 
How many games would end above this threshold, how many under?  By what difference?

All calculated flat, so KTF flat, no prog,, here are some results, 90k games:
56,65% of the games ended higher than the stoploss, 43,35% lower.
Nevertheless, if calculated the difference between the end game score and the stoploss, the average stoploss is 3.51units higher than the average game ends where the stoploss was triggered.

This means, if the stoploss is triggered, most of the time a next win with bring the score higher but never above zero.  And that overall, a stoploss prevents you from digging ever deeper in hopes of a lesser worse situation, when a real bad end comes in.

I'd go like that: at the point where you know you'll never make it above water, if there are enough nrs left, I'd go until next hit then stop.  If the stoploss is attained with very few nrs left, just stop.

My thoughts.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Dec 12, 04:34 PM 2018
This is a question for those actually playing KTF in the real world

Meaning you get up and goto the actual casino and play

Is anyone playing this on airball machines?

This question is not for the million spin RX wizards. It’s for real world people. 
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Dec 12, 06:06 PM 2018

Let's say you're playing and you hit your stop loss
.

How long must you wait before you can return to the casino and why?  :o
How is it different from just starting again on the very next spin?  :o
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Roulettebeater on Dec 12, 06:11 PM 2018
Stoploss is the ultimative gambler fallacy that needs to be added to the book of fallacies!

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Steve on Dec 12, 06:12 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Dec 12, 06:06 PM 2018How long must you wait before you can return to the casino and why? 
How is it different from just starting again on the very next spin? 

Valid questions. Icelandic trolling.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Dec 12, 06:17 PM 2018
Quote from: Roulettebeater on Dec 12, 06:11 PM 2018
Stoploss is the ultimative gambler fallacy that needs to be added to the book of fallacies!

Believe it or not, many APs, myself included, will use a stop loss because of the potential X factor.  X Factor = A possible unknown cause that we may not instantly recognize or that we may have overlooked such as a physical playing condition.  Sometimes someone may forget to dot an 'i 'or cross a 't'.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Dec 12, 06:35 PM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 12, 04:34 PM 2018
This is a question for those actually playing KTF in the real world

Meaning you get up and goto the actual casino and play

Is anyone playing this on airball machines?

This question is not for the million spin RX wizards. It’s for real world people.

Bump

In regards to Icelandic trolling, I booked a trip to Iceland in March.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Dec 12, 08:42 PM 2018
Quote from: The General on Dec 12, 06:06 PM 2018

Let's say you're playing and you hit your stop loss
.

How long must you wait before you can return to the casino and why?  :o
How is it different from just starting again on the very next spin?  :o

Doesn't matter.

No different.

Just do whatever it pleases.  Everybody's free!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Dec 13, 09:47 AM 2018
No response. Guess that means no one is playing in a casino

Lots of opinions flying around anyway  :yawn:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Dec 13, 02:47 PM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhostThis is a question for those actually playing KTF in the real world

Meaning you get up and goto the actual casino and play

Is anyone playing this on airball machines?

This question is not for the million spin RX wizards. It’s for real world people. 

Notto,

Ghost was asking about running the KTF on airball and it's effectiveness.

Notto and Ghost,

I already know the results, but you need to explore it on your own before you'll accept the results.  Here's 13k airball spins for you.

[reveal]6
20
36
18
0
24
24
11
28
29
4
31
30
27
22
0
37
34
27
6
5
1
17
5
12
21
7
31
0
25
20
24
4
11
31
17
8
15
17
13
2
37
37
17
22
4
25
16
15
16
5
4
28
24
12
11
19
21
29
15
37
35
12
26
11
28
19
16
6
30
5
1
7
27
15
19
2
7
25
30
37
23
35
5
26
34
33
22
28
35
23
34
15
1
32
3
21
34
18
23
31
15
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32
17
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25
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16
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14
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35
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26
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8
29
13
7
0
15
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5
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34
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3
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37
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10
36
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37
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35
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1
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8
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6
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35
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1
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3
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0
24
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32
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33
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0
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34
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2
26
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33
13
8
8
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34
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37
25
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1
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33
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21
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17
30
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24
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10
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5
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33
26
28
0
12
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12
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36
13
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2
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6
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33
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[/reveal]
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 13, 03:03 PM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 13, 09:47 AM 2018
No response. Guess that means no one is playing in a casino

Lots of opinions flying around anyway  :yawn:

RouletteGhost, I'm from Australia and I have had problems signing up for online casinos. When I first started experimenting with KTF I had to physically go into a pokies venue and play on one of the RNG machines. This was obviously a big hassle. I have since found an online casino which has accepted my registration. The casino is based in Curaco. These 200 games I'm currently working my way through are being played for real money (.10c units). I will be happy to increase the base unit amount if things keep going well.

Anyone with more options available to Australian players wanting to sign up for online roulette, please let me know! I wonder if someone overseas could register an account for you?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: RouletteGhost on Dec 13, 04:15 PM 2018
I’m not interested in opinions of the method

My question is simple

Is anyone playing it on airball? Is it playable on airball?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: jono1167 on Dec 13, 04:34 PM 2018
Quote from: RouletteGhost on Dec 13, 04:15 PM 2018
I’m not interested in opinions of the method

My question is simple

Is anyone playing it on airball? Is it playable on airball?

I'm definitely not playing air-ball. I had to google it to find out exactly what it was....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Dec 24, 09:34 AM 2018
Jono
You have this
So this is where the average shows as 2 spins; the question is; what’s the max a non-hit can take?

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/24/sourcecc760.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/OOIs5)

This is random.org; let's look at non-hit 12; has a max of 8 spins. So how often does it go 8 spins?
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/24/source92fc7.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/OOLQr)

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2018/12/24/sourcedb600.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/OOmmx)

More in the new year
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 05:44 PM 2019
These spins are in the random carpet ride; so as not to get away from the circling bet i post here.
The old General likes the KTF :lol:
So you get 7/10 for spins 1-10

Now; how does 15 non-hit for spin 11-40 go?
The KTF wins on spin 24; bucket of KFC for the General.

So you see the trot in blue General; i put it in blue to help you. So at spin 40 you can see 25 non-hit have hit.
The old average for up to the 19th non-hit is 2 spins; perfect.

So over the spin 11-40; 18 non-hit came, making +3 on the average of 15

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/04/18/source4fb1e.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/exJfH)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:07 PM 2019
Big Money
You said you are thinking of try Turbo the repeats.

So you see the 1 hit  white; R1's orange; R2's blue ;  R3 purple

As said before; wait for 20 spins, you see there's already wins on R1's going R2 and R3; but how often does that happen?
Anyway you see you start spin 21 betting 4 R1's; win on spin 27. Now you could reset or carry on. But i would not go beyond 8 R1's unless you have already started to bet.
Here you'd be +51

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/04/18/sourcec6b75.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/exhGd)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:27 PM 2019
Big M
40 spins on R-sim +79; betting 7 R1's. It had used all available units of 1; and was using unit of 5 on the 7 R1's
I just see out the spin till 40 th spin.

It started 7/10; i'll up date soon.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:46 PM 2019
The breakdown
Didn't start betting 4 R1's untill 26th spin; win spin 33; +79
You could carry on, but you'd be betting 10 R1's

General a bucket of KFC win at spin 19. only the 16th went over the 2 spin average.

Anyway back to the random carpet; bit beyond you General >:D
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/04/18/source20498.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/exiQU)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: The General on Apr 18, 09:57 PM 2019
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:46 PM 2019


Anyway back to the random carpet; bit beyond you General >:D
(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/04/18/source20498.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/exiQU)

On spin 21 you're losing six units, right?

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/04/18/source8fa63.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/exqDf)

Wow, so you finished up winning a whole whopping 13 units on spin 40 huh?   ::)
Oh my!  You're a super star among the system junkies with that one.  :xd:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Maui13 on Apr 19, 01:49 AM 2019
 :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

I think someone is a bit sour!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 19, 04:00 AM 2019
Mauri
General knows it wins enough. But the point was to show Big M a way to bet for repeats.
So the 40 spins; I showed that the KTF won its target of £50/+50 at spin 19, so you would stop doing KTF. He knows this; so why he pointed out it was £-6 only an old fool like him would know. You could say spin 23; +66.
The point of the 40 spins was to see if using units of 1-5-25 it could win betting repeats; which it did, +79 at spin 33.
Also the tester showed what the data for all non-hit time tables; including the Generals star burst 10’330 spins, showed up to the 19th non-hit, the average to hit of 2 spins was hit, only the 16th non-hit took 3 spins. Could you not bet 22, non-hit numbers 3 times?
Anyway back to the random carpet ride.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 23, 07:12 PM 2019
Here is the tester. The sky blue shows the trot of the non-hit, that happen to have an average of 2 spins up to the 19th non-hit.
I've done the 1st 20 spins and there are 4; R1's that have 2 gone R2, but thats not a problem.
Quote from: nottophammer on Apr 18, 06:07 PM 2019Big Money
You said you are thinking of try Turbo the repeats.

So you see the 1 hit  white; R1's orange; R2's blue ;  R3 purple

As said before; wait for 20 spins, you see there's already wins on R1's going R2 and R3; but how often does that happen?
Anyway you see you start spin 21 betting 4 R1's; win on spin 27. Now you could reset or carry on. But i would not go beyond 8 R1's unless you have already started to bet

Note the quote not to go beyond 8 R1's.

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/04/23/source30f38.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/eae2l)
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 23, 07:30 PM 2019
So Big M

At spin 34 you'd be +71 units betting 6 R1's.

Now 8 is quoted; but just more and more R1's are being bet infact 13 R;1's just to many and bust.

(link:://:.pichost.org/images/2019/04/23/source20215.png) (link:://:.pichost.org/image/ealYc)

Now for the Generals benefit.
spin 27; +62 so The KTF has won NO NEED TO BET ANYMORE, JUST RE-SET.
spin 30; -46
spin 45 LOOK +220. General; Notto would not be betting here, if you can read, i'd have re-set.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 21, 07:53 AM 2019
Jono; +100 i like the fast 3 repeats in spins 1-10 and then 3 in spins 11-20, the usual would be 4 repeats; 6 here, so fast for repeats. But the 7 non-hits in 11-20 is spot on. I'd say a fair set of spins

Think of gzgzbee in reverse or Nimo!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 21, 08:00 AM 2019
Pri's tester
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 22, 10:39 AM 2019
General shit head why you sneaking a look
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jul 14, 02:34 AM 2020
 thereddiamanthe
If you look bottom of page 80, Priyanka posted a tracker for KTF.
Tracker is only 60 spins long, don't need hundreds or thousands of spins like Saint Steve says.

Also you can look at the non-hit time tables posted in real roulette spins.
There's a set of spins tested there from chief of the unicorns, aka, the general.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: johnb on Jul 14, 10:46 AM 2020
Would anyone be interested in a roulette system that cannot lose (and stays within the table limit)? Please send me ANY sequence from a real wheel and I will show the outcome of this system and how long it takes to wil at least 10 chips. It is incredible, but after 30 years testing I finally have the guts to come out of the closet!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 04, 07:10 AM 2021
Red remember these numbers, today. As said couple of posts back, only need 60 spins.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 04, 08:24 AM 2021
Time machine???
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: thereddiamanthe on Jan 04, 09:42 AM 2021
Bazinga!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: thereddiamanthe on Jan 04, 10:36 AM 2021
How's this related to zig-zag !?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 04, 11:46 AM 2021
Its nothing to do with zigzag.
I just thought how would your spins perform on KTF as you had 61 spins.
Now as more and more games were recorded, the data started to show the averages for the non-hits.
You’re told LOTT is 24 non-hits in 37 spins. Afraid I use 40 spins, so, differ to LOTT, slightly.
Countback shows this by spins 11-40; 30 spins. The average showed 15.7 non-hits are average in those 30 spins. I dropped the .7 and 15 is half the 30 spins. So, countback place’s a non-hit over 2 spins. 2*15=30. An even distribution is 5-5-5; but it shows it’s more like 7,5,3 over the 30 spins.
Now the 1st 10 spins show non-hit are 9/10; 1 repeat.
So, repeats average for the 40 spins is 1-3-5-7=16 repeats on average. Those 3 extra spins mean 24 non-hits and 16 repeats=40 spins. Countback places where the non-hits could hit in spins 11-40; enabling you to make decisions on betting for a non-hit or a repeat. You have to watch something that “General gormless” can’t follow, the TROT.
Gut, will give you a good understanding of how the non-hits show. It counts down 36-1; 35-2; there’s 16 repeats on average in 40 spins, as the larger group hit and deplete, the repeats have to happen, balance to get the LOTT or turd.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tonyxc on Feb 27, 04:05 PM 2021
Finally got a chance to try KTF...
It has been doing great.. fun and can get a bit hard playing online when changing +1/-1 progression    even with the use of the clickers.   But thank you notto for this method


Has anybody tried programming this in Rx? Or would like to attempt to?   As we say keep the faith   so it could be played "blindly" with the rules set out by this thread...

Good luck all
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Tonyxc on Feb 27, 10:48 PM 2021
I kept the faith for this session.

it was a fast trot initally and then the repeats caught up...
didnt want to switch to playing repeats and then back to ktf, thought i would try and stick with one method

went up to 8 units

ended up with a small profit. which was time to stop

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 28, 06:05 AM 2021
Hi Tony.
I guess you know how Gut works? Finding a crossing that is uses one of the remaining non-hit numbers.
The best of it is what “General gormless” can’t grasp, watching the TROT.
In topic, Holy grail by Winkel, started by Azim. On page 46 there is a paper tracker for GUT. I use to use the Gut paper tracker at the same time as playing KTF.
In the topic below the paper tracker is a game posted in KTF. You can see how fast the non-hit have hit. In the KTF side it shows how far the 16th non-hit is on the TROT; from a start of 1st 10 spins that gave 3 repeats.
So, the paper tracker was used at Aspers casino in MK. Management didn’t bat an eye lid.
Alas, both establishments; the bookmakers only having a min/max bet of £2 and Aspers not letting play on the actual live tables. It’s pointless playing. Aspers has you play a supposedly live wheel on a podium that you need to be plus 6ft tall to actually see this wheel. Yes, there’s a monitor showing a wheel, where you see the croupier’s hand goes into the roulette and spin the wheel. So, it’s a bit like Smart live roulette, is it a video clip?
So, to see how the non-hit, hit; there’s the non-hit time tables. Even General Gormless posted 10’330 live spins are there.
And again, I say repeats on average hit 1-3-5-7&30. So, 16 repeats on average in 40 spins.
What does the LOTT, again something General gormless ridicules show in 37 spins? Average is 24 non-hits in 37 spins. Or 24 in 40 spins.
As the Great Winkel says, learn to read the TROT.
Oh yes, Tony the tables show live spins, RNG spins, random org spins and German spins. All give that average for repeats typed above.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 28, 07:16 AM 2021
These 60 spins are wrap-ping on red and black. Posted in Zigzag.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Feb 28, 09:22 AM 2021
Been wrap-ping r/b

Countback will it help you see the TROT. Not the General gormless,
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: bigmoney on Mar 01, 11:40 PM 2021
great thingabout this KTF   thread ...no clues ...none of that do the hard work urself....this nottophammer is a no bullshit straight up guy ...thumbs up
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Mar 02, 11:31 PM 2021
Notto
Meanwhile in Canada...
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 10, 06:27 AM 2021
GLOAT; that's General gormless.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: bigmoney on May 18, 02:58 AM 2021
KTF ....I NEED TO RE READ THIS
PEOPLES DONT WASTE YOUR TIME  ON RIDDLES  EG VADDIS ETC ETC

ANYTHING THAT NOTTOPHAMMER PUBLISHES IS THE REAL DEAL ...NO RIDDLES ITS JUST THERE IN BLACK AND WHITE .....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: bigmoney on May 18, 03:02 AM 2021
good thing about KTF  is that u can backtest it and tweak it...without having to work out RIDDLES   yee har giddy up
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: bigmoney on May 18, 03:05 AM 2021
well i know what im doing tomorrow ...turning off the phone ...and backtesting and tweaking this ....

NOTTOPHAMMER ....WHERE DO I SEND U ... SOME OF THE PROFITS .....
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: gianfrancopierino on May 18, 04:25 AM 2021
BIGMONEY do you have by any chance the system for roulette xtreme? or you work this system manually?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 18, 07:49 AM 2021
Bigmoney. You're a top man :thumbsup:

Now I'm back on Turbo riddles for repeats.
Big M; data collected from KTF and even Greatest Loser of all Time, GLOAT, General gormless's, 10330 live spins; can help in betting for repeats.

I've just posted at gambling forum 40 spins using Turbo riddles, all flat bet, betting for repeats. Plus no time machine.

GLOAT's where would our entertainment be with out them.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: bigmoney on May 18, 07:55 AM 2021
giofranco

im using past live spins and since the house of fun is a real casino
im doing it manually
to assimulate  my working enviroment
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: bigmoney on May 18, 07:59 AM 2021
arrr they talk about vaddi ...gizmo
red dwarf
but none of them can educate the masses like the GREATEST OF ALL TIME

NOTTOPHAMMER
....YEE HAR GIDDY UP
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Ross on May 30, 09:39 PM 2021
Quote from: Steve on Sep 29, 05:05 PM 2018You already know the result from mpr. Youre misleading people and wasting their time and money by showing them a few charts with wins. You don't show the bigger picture.

The noobs are too naive and inexperienced to understand the naysayers arent the ones with the problem.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Ross on May 30, 09:41 PM 2021
Quote from: Bigbroben on Oct 01, 09:02 PM 2018KTF is interesting: it wins most of the time.  You can win 100 times in row.  There is still this one time where it fails and it then erases all the previous gains.
It is the variance that kills it.
The averages are there, they give an indication.  Just like there is an average of 1 high for 1 low: normally a Martingale would make it a winner, but then, once, it crashes real quick.  Variance is the hammer.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Ross on May 30, 09:45 PM 2021
Quote from: Mister Eko on Dec 06, 02:02 AM 2018My first test was extremely good. I went up from 200 units to 711 under around 150-200 spins. This was around 20-30 comppete session with 30-50 session wingoals, what you recommended in ktf charts. I was guys so happy that I founded the HG, that I opened another testing session, and I said, go.

I can say that roulette fckd up me three from 5 sessions.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 31, 05:30 AM 2021
This should be in the @ Turbo, but for you Ross a member of the GLOAT crew.
You should learn how the non-hits show.
I learnt also from GUT; what the average for non-hits could be. So, you can bet for repeats, if you have studied?
Info is in the real roulette section; non-hit time tables. There’s even a set from the chief of the GLOATs, the General.
Now, if you search the time tables, you’ll see non-hits show on average in blocks of 10 spins. 9-7-5-3=24.
Look at it from repeats; 1-3-5-7=16.
There, that is all you need to KNOW.
Now you can watch the TROT; you don’t have to bet every spin.
You don’t need to test for millions of spins.
You only need to study 60 spins.
Repeats on average 1-3-5-7&30/60. The average is 29.5 non-hits in 60 spins. Round up, 30.
If 30 in 60 is average, then you must have 30 repeats. Convenient it’s usually at 60 spins 50/50.
So, study the 1-3-5-7&30 and you will be able to make a decision on whether to bet for the non-hit or a repeat.
Winkel shows the larger group, that starting larger group deplete even using the touted 1/37 spin.
Start, larger group non-hits. At around spin 21-30 it’s a 50/50. Spins 31-40 the larger group have well depleted.

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 07, 01:43 PM 2022
Over at GF the DSAA; that's Dr Sir anyone anyone or here the general or you could find one of his many aka's.
He still don't see how non-hits show. So, you get the usual why not just 1 spin or the shaking head.
Shame he obliterated GUT thread, some people might have learnt something.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 08, 05:12 AM 2022
nottophammer, The General, nichedelico and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.
DSSA or general for someone who disses KTF why are you in here?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 08, 05:19 AM 2022
Dr DICK-HEAD you'll never read the TROT
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 10, 05:59 PM 2022
Jono hope you can work with the 1-3-5-7=16.

The game in the attachment
1-10; +1
11-20; +1
21-30; +1
31-40; stands at 36th spin +123. To stay at +1 on 40th the 10 spins needs to give 7 repeats.
            It stands at 24/12. It only has 4 spins to come; so the score even if 4 repeats show will be 24/16; +0
The average for non-hits at this point is 3 spins. Just watch costs nothing, then make a decision
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 10, 06:00 PM 2022
When the shaking head gif comes from the General/DSAA; it'll be because he don't understand 1-3-5-7
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jan 12, 11:27 AM 2022
Over at GF, where the DSAA lurks, another example of 1-3-5-7.

TRD; only worked on singles, so know idea for what you asked.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Bigbroben on Jan 13, 03:22 PM 2022
You should know by now that it's -2.7%, whatever you play and for whichever reason you're playing it.

But for some fun, luck and entertainment, ok.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: TRD on Jan 13, 03:55 PM 2022
The idea is the same type of count adjusted to other payouts positions.
SU - 37 numbers=positions
ST - 12,13 positions
Q - ..
DS - 6,11 positions

Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 01:33 PM 2022
JONO
What I have been testing on R-sim with 1-3-5-7=16
I said,  I'm thinking I'm playing the wrong side.

Do you get where I'm coming from.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 08, 01:48 PM 2022
Jono

How many repeats happen? How many in 24 spins?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 26, 02:47 PM 2022
Aggelos.
It was discussed in KTF thread about the distribution of non-hits over 40 spins. They were found to come in 40 spins as 9-7-5-3 =24 of the starting 37. For the repeats look from other side. 1-3-5-7=16. 16+24=40 spins.
The distribution was discussed and I said why does it not come as a fair distribution of 1-5-5-5=16.
Well; look at grey/blue box, the distribution is 2-5-5-5.
2 repeats in spins 1-10. 5 repeats in spins 11-20. 2+5=7; at 20 spins it’s usually 4 repeats, making +3 for repeats. Next 10 spins, another 5 repeats, again +3 for repeats. 12 repeats, usual 9, +3.
At 40th spin repeats are 17, +1.
This game for Saint Steve was betting for repeats and then non-hits. Then repeats again. At +499 and 39 spins, I just spun to see result.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 26, 02:51 PM 2022
Hotjohn, d80
You can see the average from both sides. Watch the stream or trot. See who is infront, don't they need to catch up?

A stream can at 40 spins be as much as +/-5; at 60 spins it might be +/-2 or even 30/30

Like Winkel said in GUT watch how the non-hit or repeats perform.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 28, 07:14 AM 2022
Hotjohn, d80
What the tester was for. Have to thank Priyanka for it.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 28, 07:19 AM 2022
The numbers come from Billionpound speak
Follow countback.
If you want to try betting hot repeat numbers, Like Turbo advantage 3.
Go to Gambling forum and look at cracking the riddles
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Apr 28, 07:21 AM 2022
John, d80
Just 60 spins profit along the way, you set your profit goal :thumbsup:
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Akiraa on May 28, 09:41 AM 2022
Been away from roulette for a while now- just read the whole topic start to finish and have run some tests with real spins- all looking good so far.

Just want to say thanks to Notto and all involved for posting a full system with bankroll, stop loss and win target included and best of all no riddles!

Only downside is no way to really play it on the online real wheels as 15 seconds is nowhere near enough to place the bets. I’m going to start playing for real cash on the play tech rng of doom so will be interesting to see how quick they catch on and spin nothing but repeats to bust my bankroll.

If (and when!) this happens next steps are to study wtf and see if I can get it working for real play. The reason I haven’t looked too in depth into it yet as it seems to be more of a ‘feel’ system whereas the rules on ktf are set and don’t change which is easier for starting out. If anyone is still interested I can post the spins from the games I play.

Once again thanks for the full system Notto-  much appreciated!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 28, 12:39 PM 2022
Great.
Have you seen Priyanka’s tester, page 80? From the tester, the checkpoints helped find the non-hit average to hit.
It was said why don’t they come as 9-5-5-5 =24 over the 40 spins. But instead, we often see 9-7-5-3=24. That means repeats are 1-3-5-7=16
Also, in real roulette spins are posted the NON-HIT’s time tables. It shows up to the 19th non-hit, they have an average to hit of 2 spins. Then up to the 26th non-hit, they average to hit in 3 spins. Up to the 30th non-hit, they average to hit in 4 spins. Bare this in mind.
If you get to 40th spin and it’s 24 of the starting 37 have hit. The next 20 spins; will have you at 60 spins and usually have 30 of the starting 37 and 30 repeats. So, 6 more of the remaining need to hit in the 20 spins. Non-hits 25&26 could hit in 6 spins, their average to hit. 14 spins left; if they average to hit to their average to hit, then non-hits 27-28-29 could hit. With 2 spins left who knows maybe the 30th non-hit would show; if not the non-hits would be -1 over the 60 spins. 31/29.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 29, 07:52 AM 2022
65 spins from an Aus contact on R-sim.
Akiraa; maybe this will help. Shows how to watch the stream.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 29, 07:56 AM 2022
How Priyanka's tester looks for the 60 spins.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 29, 10:00 AM 2022
Why the need for 359 spins?
surely 60 gets you a profit.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 29, 10:17 AM 2022
60 spins.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 29, 12:42 PM 2022
As we know non-hit average is 9-7-5-3 and repeat average is 1-3-5-7.
You can work with both averages.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 29, 12:50 PM 2022
What do they say? practice.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Akiraa on May 30, 05:35 AM 2022
Quote from: nottophammer on May 28, 12:39 PM 2022
Great.
Have you seen Priyanka’s tester, page 80? From the tester, the checkpoints helped find the non-hit average to hit.
It was said why don’t they come as 9-5-5-5 =24 over the 40 spins. But instead, we often see 9-7-5-3=24. That means repeats are 1-3-5-7=16
Also, in real roulette spins are posted the NON-HIT’s time tables. It shows up to the 19th non-hit, they have an average to hit of 2 spins. Then up to the 26th non-hit, they average to hit in 3 spins. Up to the 30th non-hit, they average to hit in 4 spins. Bare this in mind.
If you get to 40th spin and it’s 24 of the starting 37 have hit. The next 20 spins; will have you at 60 spins and usually have 30 of the starting 37 and 30 repeats. So, 6 more of the remaining need to hit in the 20 spins. Non-hits 25&26 could hit in 6 spins, their average to hit. 14 spins left; if they average to hit to their average to hit, then non-hits 27-28-29 could hit. With 2 spins left who knows maybe the 30th non-hit would show; if not the non-hits would be -1 over the 60 spins. 31/29.

Yes mate have been using priyankas sheet which makes things much easier. Have also added a table to the side which shows which non repeats are still to be bet to speed things up.

First real session of ktf on playtech rng of doom was a tough one- as predicted the repeats came thick and fast  after spin 10- was down to -515 by spin 22 but Ktf and ended up in profit of +82 at spin 53. If every session is as hard as that may have to consider studying wtf more and switching over but will stick with ktf for now to see  how far along I get before the 800 bankroll completely blows!

Many thanks for the great info on repeaters- will definitely look to study this more carefully in the future!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on May 30, 12:36 PM 2022
You might be amazed to see how many positions (4th, 5th, 6th, etc) all happen below 1 in 35, at what point this stops -
and how horses far back have no chance of being a leader (cold numbers) because in order to achieve this, they would
have to appear at a massive deviation above normal which doesn't happen in random.
The above is the chiefs reply #9.
Now this is a game of the chief of the riddles. It might help some of the riddler crew.

Remember Like Winkel shows its all going left to right.

But it's looking from the KTF side.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Akiraa on Jun 01, 07:36 AM 2022
Update on Ktf- 3 more sessions on playtech. Glad to say all winners and they seemed to be easier than the first session. Session 2 hit win target at spin 18 with 56 units. Session 3 was tougher but won at spin 34 for 67 units. This was the last chance after a few smaller 30 plus wins though and playing on would have bust the bankroll if it had not hit at this point.
Decided to lower the win target after this session so went to 30-40 units for session 4- got this at spin 17 with 33 unit win. Playing on would have got the 50 target at spin 27 with 62 units but I was just spinning the 60 numbers to see what would have happened and for my records.

Still not convinced playtech is actually a fair game and am just waiting for several runs from hell to bust me completely but am not seeing massive differences in the predicted amounts by the end of the 60 spins (4 sessions have been 29/33/29/28 repeats in the 60) so looks like what Notto saying about even playtech having to keep the numbers average is spot on.

Cheers!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 08, 12:13 PM 2022
Akiraa
Look at the score of the repeats.
This is playing just 4 numbers on the mighty MPR.
Shame Saint Steve don't sort the ready button and clock.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Akiraa on Jun 09, 06:14 AM 2022
Hey Notto- the numbers on MPR for your repeats method look really good! Have to admit having not looked into the Wtf way very much as yet I’m not too sure what a lot of the info in the graph represents so will definitely study that thread more going forward.

Ktf finally had the run from hell after 20 sessions on playtech. 800 units got lost but overall still in profit so think I will leave it there and look into the other repeater methods which can hopefully be played on live wheel as was never convinced the rng roulette is playing fair.

4 numbers on a repeater method sounds like it should be much more manageable for live play so will be looking into repeats/wtf methods next.

Thanks for all the input- much appreciated!
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Jun 09, 08:22 AM 2022
Yes learning how the non-hits perform and GUT is a good topic, shame it's obliterated.
Then the riddles from the chief, Turbo; you should be able to bet for either.
Cheap betting 4 #'s.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Aug 03, 08:04 AM 2022
Big M
Does a picture paint a 1000 words?
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: nottophammer on Aug 03, 08:17 AM 2022
Big M
Has anyone done further work on KTF?
I've been trying for a long while to use Riddles from the Genius.
What is the T Genius using? The smaller group.
What does KTF use? The larger group.
Larger group starts covering x numbers at what cost.
Smaller group starts using less numbers at what cost.
Now, if you accept repeats average is 1-3-5-7&30@60 spins; shown from the Generals posted 10'330 live spins and RNG-air ball plus German live spins all showing this average. Then the above post shows repeats were fast, in fact too fast. But, yes using a progression was a win.
Title: Re: KTF
Post by: Person S on Sep 06, 08:29 AM 2022
Notto, asked for an answer.
So, in my opinion, there is no point in betting 300 spins and waiting for a replay. Yes, and in that interval another number could get hot and he could sleep through 300. My answer is 35 or 37 spins.